WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 165 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:05.920 Also media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:08.960 to let you know this is a compilation episode, So 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:12.639 every episode of the week that just happened is here 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.680 in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:18.840 you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:21.400 If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:23.200 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:24.919 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:29.360 Hi, everyone, welcome, Vick can have it here. It's me 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.400 James today with a terrible cold as you can probably tell, 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:35.360 but still very important to listen today because I'm talking 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.560 to Andreina, an organizer from Ktown for All Up in LA, 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:40.680 and we're going to talk about the fires in LA 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:42.519 and the meat fade response and what you can do 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:42.840 to help. 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:44.120 So welcome to the show. 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:45.360 Andrena, thank you for having me. 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:45.800 James. 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:48.440 Yeah, thanks for being here. I know you guys are 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.559 really busy right now. So to begin with, like in 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:53.599 case this has missed people, and there's a lot there's 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.520 a lot of news happening right now, can you explain 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.160 what's been going on in LA with respected to fires 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:01.160 for the last two three days, So. 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.880 About three or four days ago, we got a warning 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.680 that we were going to be experiencing high winds up 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.920 to fifty miles per hour, which is nuts, and they 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:12.120 were going to be coming from the desert. So this 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:14.759 is just like a barrage of hot wind. So we 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.600 were preparing to have to replace tents and tarps because 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:21.560 you know, man made structures that people are surviving with 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.680 can't survive that kind of wind. But when we hear 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:28.640 that wind here in southern California, we immediately think fire, sadly, 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.959 because any little you know, a cigarette, but an electrical spark, 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.040 you know, like when when it's this dry, it's enough 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:39.240 to cause devastation, which is exactly what's happened. There are 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.240 about seven fires right now spread around the perimeter of 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:45.720 Los Angeles County that have been started and then spread 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:49.440 massively by these giant winds everywhere, so the embers are 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.680 being picked up. Thankfully, the wind has settled down, but 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.960 the wind itself has prevented, you know, the big water 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:59.880 tankers from flying, which is led to the massive deaths 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.200 s that you saw in the Palisades and other areas. 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.600 You know, the entire water we being grounded for a 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.040 while just meant that it was burning with no control, 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:14.120 relying on on the ground firefighters. So what we've seen 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:18.360 is just mass devastation, thousands of homes lost. I think 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:22.720 there is a death tally, thankfully very low, in about tennish. 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.200 I think I've heard from this morning with confirmation. But yeah, 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.040 that's all we're facing right now. 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.600 Yeah, it's pretty devastating, Like whole neighborhoods have gone right, 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.639 I think I thought like two thousand structures have already 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.600 been burned. And like, as you said, if people aren't 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.000 in the United States or nut familiar with how fire 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.160 is for like out here in the Western United States, 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.160 it's a lot of air dropping fire retired in and 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:51.760 air dropping water, which without that, it's very hard to 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:53.639 get enough water to where it needs to be. And 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:55.400 I believe at one point that actually ran out of 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:57.919 water in water towers right up in Palisades. 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:03.080 Yeah, the fire hydrants ran dry in some areas, which 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.840 is terrifying to think of. And we were warned. I'm 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.480 in the Koreatan neighborhood. We were warned about low water pressure. 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.680 And I do know that some areas in Los Angeles, 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:16.160 particularly in that region, are being worn to boil water 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.760 and that their water is unsafe to drink right now. 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:21.440 Yeah, I've seen that too. Dare was a water boil 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.800 warning for yeah, lots of places. So as a result 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.840 of these fires and all the destruction they've caused, I 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:29.440 think I saw it was it one hundred and fifty 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:31.959 thousand odd people have been displaced now, is that? 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:33.720 Is that right? Is that a good number? 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:36.160 I saw something large like that of just the people 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.600 that have been evacuated. Right north of me was the 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:43.280 Sunset fire, and that was very concerningly close to the 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:47.120 Korea Ten neighborhood that is generally never concerned about fires 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.560 because we're so in the concrete jungle, like, we're so insulated. 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.360 I think that's the closest we've come to devastation, and 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.480 we were really stressed out last night just keeping an 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.360 eye on the news because that's, you know, not even 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.320 two miles away away from the core of the densest 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:03.880 neighborhood of Los Angeles. 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.160 Right, yeah, I guess again, people aren't familiar like fires 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.480 destroy property and kill people every year here, and the 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.680 climate change has meant that they have become worse and worse. 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.159 But in the middle of a city. 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.520 You're Germany not worried about fires because the resources will 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.159 be spent to defend that property, right, Like this is 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:25.440 this is a very unique situation to see huge parts 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:26.560 of a city burning down. 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:34.960 Yeah, particularly the Palisades, which is historically a significantly wealthy neighborhood. Yeah, 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:39.640 you know, a den of celebrity in Hollywood elites, and 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.000 seeing it devastated just kind of sends home the point 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:45.760 that you know, you have wealth that insulates you from 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.680 the worst of what we're facing, but that only goes 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.599 so far. I saw that there was a couple of 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.600 wealthy people on Twitter begging for private fired fighting forces 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.000 to come save their homes. Famously, the same ones that 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.360 are talking about activation and how smart they are to 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:06.400 do real estate, you know, maneuvering to not pay into 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.440 the social system that helps in these times. Clearly we're 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:15.080 severely underfunded and severely undermanaged when it comes to the 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.240 government stepping in during these emergencies. 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.560 Yeah, and like that's something I want to address because 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:25.960 I think in every natural disaster that I've covered, the 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:27.960 reason it becomes a disaster, I guess is because the 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.080 state's incapable of responding in a way that protects people, 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.680 and in almost every case it's people who have to step. 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:35.680 Up and look after one another. 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:39.560 So we should talk about the response of the LA 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.520 City and county governments, and then I'd love to talk 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:45.039 about the mutial aid response after that. 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.800 Yeah, from what we've seen here in Kaytown, if you 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:54.159 weren't immediately evacuated, there's nothing. All of our outreach folks 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:56.560 that were out talking to all of our un house 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.480 neighbors here in the area, which are in the hundreds, 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:01.920 first of all, didn't know what was going on. They 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.160 saw the sky, they assumed there was a fire nearby, 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.120 but they didn't know the swath of the devastation and 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.359 that we were generally threatened as well. They didn't have 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.360 any supplies, and in some areas of Los Angeles we've 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:17.640 heard as of this morning and yesterday that sweeps have continued. 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.839 So the city has continued throwing away tents from the 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.440 people living on the streets. And then for the house 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.599 people that have been displaced, there are shelter designations that 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.479 they've set up. Pan Pacific Park is one of them 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:34.919 for Hollywood. There's one in Pasadena, you know, and the like. 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.560 But it seems to be you know, a hodgepodge of 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:42.200 you know, disorganization and a lot of you know, mutual 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.720 aid folks on the ground being the ones to direct 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:48.200 people and gather the supplies. I have not heard of, 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.200 you know, a very formal eyed system. There is no 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.520 word on any kind of significant assistance for people who 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.640 have lost their homes at the moment. I don't know 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.120 if the Red Cross is gonna set a staging zone 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:01.560 up or anything, but I do know that the people 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:05.640 who are setting up you know, places for people to go, food, water, 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:11.120 even pet care, things like that have been just random volunteers. 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.480 You know. I'm in this chat group Mutual ADLA that 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.480 spurred you know, literally just on signal the day that 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.160 the fire started, that has a thousand people on it 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:25.800 mobilizing and distributing and volunteering to move people from one 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:27.960 area of the city to the other. You know, I 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:29.720 have this person who needs a place to stay, Like, 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:32.800 who's got a list of places that are open, because 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:37.400 when you have disasters as big, you need help quickly. Yeah, 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.720 and bureaucracy just doesn't you know that that's not built 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:41.960 for that. 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:43.280 Yeah, it's not. 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.800 And like we've definitely seen that there was just a 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.440 failure of the state to respond like in the way 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.120 that it needed to as quickly as it needed to. 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.320 And it's really it's wonderful to see people picking up slack, 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:56.480 like of course it is. It's really beautiful that people 0:07:57.520 --> 0:07:59.920 show up for each other in these times. There's something 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.200 about that that I obviously, like find really affirming. That's 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:07.040 maybe why I do this for a living. But yeah, 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:08.720 it's really beautiful to see. It doesn't mean that we 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:11.960 should forget that, Like the state has capacity that it 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:14.960 is using, as you said, to displace people who are unhoused. 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.880 It could be using that capacity to bring masks to people, 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.440 to bring food to people, to create shelter for people. 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.200 It's not it's choosing to harasp people who live on 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:24.600 the street. 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:27.520 Yeah, and this is something we see repeatedly. You know, 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.320 it hasn't rained in LA for about eight months, but 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.840 when it did rain, we had historical rains last year, 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.520 in particular, we had a cold front where folks die 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.880 every time, and we know folks are going to die 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.240 every time it rains here in LA. We have more 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:45.439 people that die of hypothermia and Los Angeles than New 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.520 York and San Francisco. Combined every year because hypothermia actually 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.840 doesn't require it to be freezing this set end. It 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.719 just requires you to be in around sixty degrees and 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:59.320 be wet, which is very common on the streets here 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:02.719 of LA. We've seen people get frostbite from having their 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.760 skin against cold concrete, you know, over the night while 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.839 it's raining, and our electeds know this. When I first 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.160 started doing this work, there was a slogan that we 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.960 were chanting for a day in LA and that was 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.560 the number of unhoused people that died every day. And 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:21.080 now we're at about six or seven. We request, you know, 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.760 through the Freedom of Information Act, requests the coroner's report 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.120 every year of how many people died, and that number 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:29.920 is only growing. And the government knows this. They know 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:31.880 every time we have a heat wave that there are 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.439 seventy thousand people sleeping on the streets, sleeping in their cars. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:38.520 They know that during the winter, you know, people are 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:40.920 out there in the cold and the rain. And I 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.040 talk to people who aren't into the organizing space and 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:47.040 they asked me like, well, aren't there you know, insert 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.600 service here that you think there should be, you know, 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.520 right now during the fires, Like aren't there vans picking 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:55.120 people up and taking them to shelter, and it's like 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.640 that would be wonderful, when there's not. There's never any 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.720 vans picking people up. Know, even when they open up 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:06.320 cooling shelters and warming shelters. The number one barrier we 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.240 heard from people in the streets is how would I 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.360 get there? And when I get there, they make me 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:12.480 not bring my stuff in, so it's all going to 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.760 get stolen. There's just all of these barriers that the 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:20.520 city is just completely you know, purposely neglecting. They could 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:22.320 talk to any of us on how to run a 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:26.280 successful you know, warming or cooling shelter, they don't, you know, 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.040 they have no interest in what we have to say. 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.600 In fact, our city council person hearing Kytown doesn't respond 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.959 to any of our inquiries at all. She just flat 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.880 out doesn't respond to us whenever we email her with 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.160 concerns or questions. And that's kind of how we've been, 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:45.320 you know, working just with the knowledge that we don't 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.800 have this support of this agency, and in fact they 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.840 are opposition. You know, we're the ones having to organize 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:53.079 around them and what they're doing. 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:57.320 Yeah, it's sadly not that dissimilar here, Like every time 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:58.840 it rains, people will die. 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:00.520 Every time we have heat wave. 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:03.640 I remember they found the remains of an in house 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:05.280 person a couple of years ago, and they thought the 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:08.199 person had been burned like like by fire, and it 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.720 turned out they had just been exposed to massive amounts 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.560 of heat. And yeah, I remember a couple of years ago, 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.839 just like give an anecdote, it was I think above 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.120 one hundred degrees in town. It was so hot, and 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:20.880 I was in the river bed like I had this 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.400 big insulated backpack to give people cold water, and just 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:28.920 like dozens of people were in terrible distress. And yeah, 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:33.000 there was no presence of police fire and anyone to help. 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:36.520 Right Like we have these sometimes billion dollar police departments 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.439 in these cities, and people are still unsafe and they 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:44.440 don't feel safe reaching out to any government agencies because 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.280 these government agencies are the same ones that you say 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.839 that throw away their shit, that destroy all the little 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:50.800 things that they've been trying to build up to get onto, 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:52.720 you know, like a better situation in life. 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:57.000 Yeah, and I think there's this sense of like apathy 0:11:57.040 --> 0:11:59.760 that has built and rightfully so, from the people that 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.720 live on the streets where we've you know, relayed messages 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:05.959 that we've heard like hey, two one one says they 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.840 have one hundred shelter beds tonight, call and see if 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.680 you can get in, and they're like, okay, you know, 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:13.800 like I'll give it a shot, you know, And it's 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.680 very well received because we understand the amount of disappointment 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:21.080 these people have gone through when they do the care 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:24.360 plus sweeps, which is in itself such an evil name, yea, 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.440 when they throw all their stuff away when they show 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.160 up and they do care Plus, they show up with 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.400 a social worker first, which if I was a social worker, 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.120 I'd be kicking and screaming about how damaging that is 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.840 that right before they throw away everything that an non 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.200 house person owns, they send in a loan social worker 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.360 to write their names and maybe their numbers down and 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:47.640 tell them that the shelters are full, but they'll get 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:49.280 back to them, and then they have all of their 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.959 belongings droven away. I can't imagine the harm that has 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:58.320 done for just trusting services even when they're available, you know, 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.240 accessing them and then giving them your information. Have one 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.439 person who rightfully so told me they have trauma about 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.640 filling out forms because they've done this three hundred times, 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.760 you know, they said something incredible. They've been counting about 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.480 how many times they've filled the same forms out to 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.440 have it lead nowhere. And I can't imagine, you know, 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:22.560 that kind of resilience. Now, with this devastation, there's going 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:24.160 to be a lot of homeowners who are going to 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.360 experience that firsthand. I'm seeing a lot of people that 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.680 are homeless for the first time ever in their lives, 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.600 like in their late fifties. And these are people that 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.760 have owned homes, that have worked careers, that have you know, 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:38.360 lived their whole life as you're supposed to you in 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:42.160 the United States, and then in their elder years, befall 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.040 some sort of disaster or social Security doesn't pay anymore, 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.400 and they are severely shocked when I tell them what 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.719 the landscape of our social safety net looks like. I've 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.560 had people ask me like where do I go to 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.959 sign up for free housing? And I have to tell them, 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.000 you know, the wait list for vouchers is fifteen years, 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.000 is long, and it's a lottery. The list is closed 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.000 because it's so full. You can apply to senior housing, 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.240 but that's about a ten year wait, you know, that 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:10.520 I have to be the one to tell them that, 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.719 and that's sort of shock I think is going to 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.640 be hitting a lot of folks that have never tried 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:18.280 to access services before. 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.760 Yeah, definitely, let's take a little break here for some 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:35.480 advertisements and then we'll come back. All right, we're back. 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.800 So Yeah, I think anyone who's familiar with the situation 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:44.200 facing unhoused people in southern California will understand that there 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.120 is not a safety net, and that's about to become 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.880 more profoundly obvious than ever for thousands of people. Let's 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:54.920 talk about the way that people are helping to take 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.280 care of one another, because I think that's that's what 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.640 always happened to these situations. So let's talk about the 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.240 mutual aid effort. Maybe you could like talk about some 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:04.760 of the groups, talk about some of the things you've 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.760 been doing, and then I want to get onto how 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.680 people can help if they're in town, and how people 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:10.520 can help if they are a long way away. 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:11.280 Yeah. 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.520 In LA, we have a very robust network of mutual 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.760 aid groups that have been built by force, honestly, via 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:23.360 this government. I think a lot of them have started 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.480 up to step in just there's no denying all over 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.840 La that there's this crisis because you walk outside of 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.040 your house and there are people sleeping on your street. 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.000 You know, there's people digging through your garbage. So we've 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:41.240 seen this blossoming of mutual aid groups all over the city, 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.920 and we in times of crisis, you know, will spark 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.560 up a signal group that grows from zero to thousands 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:53.080 of people overnight that are willing to jump in and 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.680 get their hands dirty to coalesce and find resources. You know, 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.240 here's where we're buying masks. This star is out, don't 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.840 go to this one. Go to that one who's reimbursing 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.480 people for a gas et cetera, et cetera. And it's 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:09.480 normal people. You know, I have a full time job. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.040 My friends here in Ktown for all. Some are teachers, 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:17.480 some are in the movie industry, you know, some are 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:21.480 random lawyers you know that will take their time out 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:26.120 to do this work. And I think that it's beautiful 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.600 in the sense that we get people the help they 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:33.600 need and it's never enough, which is crushing. Here in Ktown. 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:38.000 We give supplies to about four hundred or so on 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.600 house people a week minimum, and that is hygiene supplies 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:46.320 tense blankets, We connect them to any services that they 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:48.880 might ask us to connect them to, driving them to 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:52.080 the hospital, et cetera. And this has been going on 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.360 for the last five years. And Ktown for All specifically 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:59.520 started as a counter protest because there was an attempt 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.920 to build a showter here in Koreatown and some homeowners 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.840 organized against it. They marched down Wiltshire and shut it down. 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.800 And our founders found each other because they were the 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:13.399 only five people holding up we Want Shelter Science and 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:16.600 just started doing distribution themselves. And I think that's one 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.800 thing that I would really suggest to folks is it's 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:22.320 not as intimidating as it seems to start one of 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.840 these projects. It's literally you and a couple of friends 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.639 who decide that you're going to do something, and you 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.560 acknowledge that you can't do everything and that you'll never 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:35.120 be able to meet the need because what we need 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.359 is a government who cares about people. But in the meanwhile, 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:41.400 we're going to do the best we can, and the 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:43.879 lives of the you know, now four hundred or so 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.480 people that we see every week are a little better 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:48.040 because we decide to do that. 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:50.919 Yeah, I think that's really important to say that, Like 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.520 it can seem really overwhelming. This is an email I 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:56.359 get almost every week, like how do I start a 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.640 mutual aid group? Like if you can make a sandwich, 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:01.880 then you and you can start a mutual aid group. 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:04.400 Like just go and feed people who are hungry. If 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.199 someone's cold, give them a blanket. Like it doesn't have 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.080 to be like you don't have to read seventeen books, 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:11.919 you know, and be like starting a five H one, 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:13.040 C three and stuff. 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.000 You just need to do things. 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.840 And I think, especially like we're going into a new administration, 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.679 we're going to see the state being more hostile to 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:26.760 people who already marginalized. And like, the best advice I 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.000 have for people is to get off the internet and 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.199 to get into the streets and just do something. It 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:33.159 doesn't matter if you say you won't be able to 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.600 do everything, not right away, maybe one day we will, 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.560 but like doing something is a lot better than doing nothing, 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.880 and I guarantee it is also much better for you 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:43.959 and you're met, Like I feel so much better when 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:45.879 I'm able to help people. I wouldn't be able to 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:47.520 do the job I do at the border if I 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.600 wasn't also able to help people like it. It helps 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.560 me feel like I'm not part of the problem, I guess, 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.439 or like we're doing something about it at least. What 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.000 are people doing right now to help people who are 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.439 impacted by the fire. What are the needs that are 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.400 arising and how people meeting them? 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.320 Yeah, well, Ktown for all focuses here in the Ktown neighborhood, 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.720 and what we've particularly focused on is mass distribution. People 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.920 are sitting and it's literally raining ash in some areas 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.320 and are sitting in the suot, So there's that. There's 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:22.840 basic tent and tarp gathering meals. So many emergency services 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.760 shut down during disasters, you know, makes sense, but a 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.200 lot of food kitchens that people would get meals from 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.119 are not open right now. So it's getting people food, 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.760 getting people water just enough to survive. In other areas, 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:39.560 folks are gathering supplies. There's all Power Books that is 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:44.159 a big distribution site right now. Po Mutuoid out in 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.200 the Palms area is doing a lot of really great work. 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.040 The South Bay got swept last night, so South Bay 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.720 Mutuo Aid Club is replacing tents this morning. There's a 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.560 lot of the Pet Mutuo Aid groups who are gathering 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.520 pet food and finding foster homes for a lot of 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:03.040 the found dogs and cats. It's just I mean, I 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:05.479 can't even list the amount of people right now that 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.960 are like in their vehicles doing drop offs to you know, 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:13.280 the sidewalk project. There's a big skid row distribution point 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.679 that is building up crowdsourcing insulin things that like you 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:18.879 don't think about that people ran out of their house 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:21.320 that they need to live. They don't have time to 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:23.920 go get a prescription right you know at a primary 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:26.960 care provider like that, we need albuterol that people are 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:30.080 having asthma attacks. So there's these kind of burdens that 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.680 mutuoid projects get around because people a don't have to 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.400 fill out any forms, they don't have to wait. If 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.120 we have it, you're going to be handed it. And 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:43.280 you know, even medical providers as part of our projects 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:47.560 have become a really big support as people on the 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.480 streets are often very disabled. We have a lot of 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:54.520 folks at diabetes, like diabetic open wounds, like just very 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.400 horrible injuries that need constant care. All Power Bookstore has 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.680 a free clinic, All Power Clinic and they offer free 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.080 medical care and come with us on our roots here 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.399 in Katown to offer free treatment for folks. And I 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:11.160 think that's something that is going to only grow, as 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:15.760 you said, as this administration occurs. Homelessness rose eighteen percent 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:18.960 in the last year, and that's only been the case 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:22.880 every year since we started counting. There is no way 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:26.600 this administration is going to institute rent control or anything 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.879 that keeps people from being displaced. One mutuoid project that 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:33.520 I think people overlook often is the tenants unions, the 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:37.800 LA Tenants Union mobilizing to care for their members, checking 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:41.960 in on their disabled members. These kind of community based 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:45.120 organizations where people know people, they know who to check 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:48.680 up on, they know who's vulnerable. Those kind of organizations 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:50.960 are invaluable in emergencies like these. 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:53.919 Yeah, definitely, And like I one good thing that can 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.800 come out of this is that we can build stronger communities, 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:00.000 right and we can hopefully folks who are finding themselves 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:02.760 depending on mutual aid for the first time can realize that, 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.320 like they can participate in that. And I know there 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:07.920 are folks already why who have lost their homes who 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:10.560 are still out there helping other people, driving around, rescuing 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:11.399 people and stuff. 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:14.480 Yeah, And I think we say this all the time. 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:18.480 In the homelessness space, you know, you're closer to being 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:20.960 homeless than you are to be a billionaire. And I 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.520 think this is one of the most direct examples, Like 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:28.440 these people might have been well off maybe a month 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:32.159 or two ago, and then now they have zero. You know, 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:34.639 they're going to be fighting with insurance companies for maybe 0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:39.119 five years, you know, if some of them, and hopefully, 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:41.719 you know, they end up recovering. But I hope they 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:46.520 don't forget that climate change and emergency disasters are a 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:51.000 great equalizer. And the people that show their faces, they're 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:55.359 not the politicians, they're not the lobbyists, they're not you know, 0:22:55.480 --> 0:23:00.320 the Democratic Party. You know, TM, it's your neighbor who 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:03.920 has a mask for you. It's me, someone random from 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.760 down the block, who got a couple friends together, who 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:10.480 has water for you. You know, like that's who comes through, 0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:14.120 and that's who you need to care for all the time, 0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:16.960 including your un housed neighbors that are around you all 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:20.520 the time, who live in your community and who face 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:23.560 this emergency every day. You know, they don't know where 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:25.360 they're going to sleep every night, they don't know where 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:28.240 their next meal is coming from. Every day, they get 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:32.200 their stuff destroyed by the state, you know, regularly, if 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:35.800 not once a week, very frequently, And I hope this 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:38.280 is really sad, but I hope it forces some empathy 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:41.359 in people who otherwise don't think about themselves in this 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:45.159 context of being a human that needs food, water, and shelter, 0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:46.960 you know, the basics. 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:50.120 Yeah, talking food, water, and shelter the things I need 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:52.719 as well, and so to pay for them, I have 0:23:52.800 --> 0:24:07.480 to pivot to ads. Now, Okay, we're back. I think 0:24:07.720 --> 0:24:09.680 that was a really good plug for like why Muti 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:12.240 Lady is important and hopefully there are people who are 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:15.639 listening right or people who are finding themselves for the 0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:18.800 first time interested in helping seeing a crisis. A lot 0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:20.560 of people like will ask me if they can come 0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:23.000 help at the border, and of course you can, but 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:24.879 you should also help in your own community because there 0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:27.280 are people who need you there, and obviously that's very 0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:30.560 true in LA right now. So I want to give 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:33.520 some resources some ways people can help if people are 0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:36.239 listening in LA, what are some like I know there 0:24:36.240 --> 0:24:39.080 are all kinds of efforts, but what are some concrete 0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:41.400 things they can do or some places they can go 0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:45.360 if they're in a situation where they're not massively impacted 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:47.159 by the fires and they want to help other people. 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:48.959 What are some things they can do? 0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:52.600 You're free to follow kitown for all on Instagram. We 0:24:52.680 --> 0:24:59.720 are constantly uploading on our stories year round. Fundraisers, resource requests, 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:03.560 go fundmes, et cetera. We really try to stay connected 0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:06.560 with the LA Mutual Aid network, and honestly, once you 0:25:06.600 --> 0:25:08.199 follow one of us, you kind of follow all of 0:25:08.240 --> 0:25:11.240 us because we're very supportive of each other's effort. Mutual 0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:13.639 Aid LA is a good hub. They have a magazine 0:25:13.680 --> 0:25:16.119 that gets published every month that has a list of 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:19.960 mutual aid programs all over LA. If you can't come 0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:22.679 out on physical outreach with us, which we do on 0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:25.560 Saturdays every Saturday except the first Saturday of the month 0:25:25.560 --> 0:25:29.400 when we do our planning meeting, you're free to help us, 0:25:29.680 --> 0:25:32.840 you know, connect with others. You're free to help us financially. 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:36.560 But we also you know, funny you mentioned this, James, 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:38.720 But if you DM us and you're like, hey, I 0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:41.119 want to talk to someone about starting a project in 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:44.200 my region, I'm so happy to hop on a zoom 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:47.560 with you. Tell you how we do our distribution, tell 0:25:47.560 --> 0:25:50.119 you how we make our maps, of encampments, tell you 0:25:50.200 --> 0:25:54.480 how we you know, fund and routsource always happy to 0:25:54.520 --> 0:25:56.720 find that knowledge and people messages all the time. Can 0:25:56.760 --> 0:26:00.439 we start a Neighborhood for All chapter? And we're like, 0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:02.800 we're so honored that you would do that. Please don't ask, 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:06.280 but you're totally welcome to. And so we have Pasadena 0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:09.480 for All that is doing great work, and Pasadena for 0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:13.200 All is definitely always in need of support. They are 0:26:13.240 --> 0:26:16.760 in a huge disaster zone Altadena, Pasadena, like all those 0:26:16.800 --> 0:26:20.840 areas are been evacuated. Palms Mutoid. But yeah, if you 0:26:20.840 --> 0:26:23.240 want to stay connected, you know, follow us on Instagram, 0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:27.280 Ktown for All, same Twitter, same on Blue Sky and 0:26:27.359 --> 0:26:32.080 will hopefully be your input into the La Mutoid scene. 0:26:32.320 --> 0:26:35.000 We're always so happy to support anyone else doing this work. 0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:38.480 And while we focus in the Ktown neighborhood, LA is 0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:42.000 a giant place. And if you have any neighborhoods in 0:26:42.040 --> 0:26:45.399 Los Angeles that you feel passionate about or need extra attention, 0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:47.520 you know, we'll always be the ones to uplift those. 0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:49.879 Yeah, that's really cool. I think it's really important that 0:26:49.920 --> 0:26:50.399 we share. 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:53.200 Like one of my friends when we were doing border stuff, 0:26:53.200 --> 0:26:55.280 made a website where we documented all the stuff we 0:26:55.320 --> 0:26:57.639 did so that it was open source and available to people, 0:26:57.720 --> 0:27:01.080 like how we built shelters and how we could But yeah, 0:27:01.119 --> 0:27:03.280 we don't need to reinvent the wheel every time. Like 0:27:03.320 --> 0:27:05.320 we can all help each other get that start and 0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:07.200 not make the mistakes so we all make So that's 0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:09.320 really cool that people can reach out to you. What 0:27:09.440 --> 0:27:11.520 about if they're a long way away and they just 0:27:11.520 --> 0:27:13.480 want to send some money, They want to help and 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:15.160 they've got money they want to share. 0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:19.160 Yeah, you're always welcome to venmo us kton for all. 0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:22.199 Same on venmo. We have a PayPal link, We have 0:27:22.240 --> 0:27:25.360 a website, kton for all dot org. We are five 0:27:25.400 --> 0:27:27.840 oho and C three. If you'd like to donate in 0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:31.240 our you know, in some kind of corporate fancy way, 0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:34.440 feel free to dm us. We just got that figured out. 0:27:34.600 --> 0:27:38.400 But yeah, all of our money gets spent directly on 0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:41.040 material goods. We don't have any employees, we don't have 0:27:41.080 --> 0:27:44.080 any overhead. Our volunteers are up to their necks and 0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:47.920 baby wipes usually when we get you know, sock donations 0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:50.720 and things like that, And honestly, we prefer it that 0:27:50.760 --> 0:27:54.720 way just because you know, we we know what nonprofit 0:27:54.760 --> 0:27:58.399 requirements are like and that kind of burden that that 0:27:58.480 --> 0:28:01.120 place is on mutuoid projects and we're trying to avoid them, 0:28:01.480 --> 0:28:04.719 so every time still goes to supplies, and I know 0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:09.760 every mutoid project. Jaytown Action in Japantown as well operates 0:28:09.760 --> 0:28:12.680 in a very similar model. I would just suggest people 0:28:12.720 --> 0:28:16.880 get plugged in to mutuoid La. They follow us on Instagram, 0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:20.720 feel free to send any money, work constantly on our stories, 0:28:20.960 --> 0:28:25.920 uploading gofundmes and venmos and stuff. I really appreciate their 0:28:25.920 --> 0:28:29.360 help you out of the country and hope that one 0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:33.159 day orgs like ours are not needed anymore because we 0:28:33.200 --> 0:28:34.159 live in a great world. 0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:35.800 Yeah, yeah, that'd be nice. 0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:38.160 Is there anything else, like, do you have any bottlenecks 0:28:38.240 --> 0:28:40.520 or particular shortages that you want to shout out that 0:28:40.600 --> 0:28:41.520 the audience can maybe. 0:28:41.400 --> 0:28:41.880 Help you with. 0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:47.160 We're always looking for staples, so those are tents and 0:28:47.320 --> 0:28:52.240 tarps constantly. Those are often the most expensive items people 0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:55.120 have to purchase. Tents go about thirty to forty dollars 0:28:55.720 --> 0:28:58.800 each one, and the government throws a lot of them 0:28:58.840 --> 0:29:02.960 away every week. So those items. Feel free to always 0:29:03.040 --> 0:29:05.080 DM me if you have some that you would like 0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:07.680 to drop off. But I will say mutual aid orgs 0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:11.520 are really good at building connections directly with vendors and 0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:13.960 we usually get like a discount and buying in bulk. 0:29:14.480 --> 0:29:16.960 So I would really love to shake people from their 0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:18.680 fear of donating cash. 0:29:18.760 --> 0:29:19.480 Yeah, yeah, I. 0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:21.800 Know a lot of folks feel comfortable like buying an 0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:24.320 item because you know that that's the item that's given out. 0:29:24.320 --> 0:29:27.040 But sometimes we get a better deal buying a thousand 0:29:27.040 --> 0:29:30.760 of those tenths, and your dollar goes farther. So you know, 0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:33.680 tense blankets, and again, don't be afraid to do this 0:29:33.760 --> 0:29:35.800 by yourself. Like you can go to home depot and 0:29:35.800 --> 0:29:39.400 buyotent and hand it to someone. You can go to 0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:41.840 home depot and buy masks right now and hand them 0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:44.200 to someone. You don't have to wait for a group 0:29:44.320 --> 0:29:48.120 like this to be around and to help, particularly if 0:29:48.160 --> 0:29:49.719 your neighborhood needs you. 0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:52.400 Yeah, and it's a really good message. It's a good 0:29:52.400 --> 0:29:53.040 place to end. 0:29:53.320 --> 0:29:55.480 Just to remind everyone, it's at Ktown for All on 0:29:55.520 --> 0:29:58.200 Instagram and k Town for All on Venmo. 0:29:58.320 --> 0:30:00.280 Right, yep, great, thanks so. 0:30:00.360 --> 0:30:01.720 Much, thank you so much. 0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:21.000 Oh it could happen here. A podcast from CEES The 0:30:21.120 --> 0:30:25.760 Consumer Electronics Show twenty twenty five. I am here with 0:30:26.000 --> 0:30:30.720 my friend and work partner, Garrison Davis. We have been 0:30:31.520 --> 0:30:35.280 trotting the boards, the boards being the Las Vegas Convention 0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:39.920 Center all day. Garrison, today, you started earlier than I 0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:43.080 did because I was catastrophically hungover after getting very drunk 0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:45.720 with the priest last night. Yeah, we had a nice 0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:49.560 dinner and then we set out to experience a fresh 0:30:49.600 --> 0:30:51.280 new hell. And in this case, that fresh new hell 0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:54.280 was what the AI bros Have ready for your children. 0:30:54.400 --> 0:30:57.480 No, it's funny how we both stumbled across AI products 0:30:57.520 --> 0:31:00.520 for kids like the same day, during the exactly same time. 0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:03.040 Uh huh. Yeah, it really is remarkable that, Like, yeah, 0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:05.160 I guess in part just because like Betty is such 0:31:05.200 --> 0:31:08.320 a focus. I think it has something to do with 0:31:08.360 --> 0:31:11.680 what you saw some of yesterday where and I had 0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:13.760 caught a little the day before where they're like, yeah, 0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:15.800 they don't really like this stuff. We're gonna have to 0:31:15.840 --> 0:31:18.400 get around it. Like obviously this is inevitable, but like 0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:21.000 people really also seem to not enjoy it very much. 0:31:21.520 --> 0:31:24.840 No one can explain why, but I think that this 0:31:24.920 --> 0:31:26.479 may be like, Okay, well, if we get them when 0:31:26.480 --> 0:31:28.880 they're young enough, if we train these kids. We can 0:31:28.920 --> 0:31:30.760 force this on them and they'll have no choice but 0:31:30.880 --> 0:31:31.360 to like it. 0:31:31.680 --> 0:31:33.880 And it's interesting to say that because the first thing 0:31:33.880 --> 0:31:35.520 I did today was go to a panel at the 0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:42.360 Venetian titled Raising AI Kids Responsibly, which is maybe the 0:31:42.400 --> 0:31:44.480 best title for any single panel. 0:31:44.600 --> 0:31:46.320 Yeah, that's that's fucked up. 0:31:47.000 --> 0:31:50.400 The description was a new generation of kids are being 0:31:50.440 --> 0:31:53.360 brought up with AI technologies as a part of their lives. 0:31:54.160 --> 0:31:58.160 How does this affect their learning, entertainment and socialization? Which 0:31:58.200 --> 0:32:00.360 is a good question. Yeah, we should be asked that, 0:32:00.920 --> 0:32:03.840 more people should. There was four people on the panel, 0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:09.280 Karen Ruth Wong from Ido, Play Lab Partnerships, Nilo Lewick 0:32:09.400 --> 0:32:13.440 from Skyrocket Toys, Melissa Hunter from Family Video Network, and 0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:16.520 Joshua Garrett from a Ready Land. And I'll talk about 0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:19.440 all these all these different companies and people in a 0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:22.560 sec Yeah. So the panel started with Karen Ruth Wang 0:32:22.600 --> 0:32:25.800 from Ido, which is the company that first partnered with 0:32:25.840 --> 0:32:28.360 sessing me a Workshop to start making online apps. So, 0:32:28.480 --> 0:32:30.240 you know, that was interesting to me because sess me 0:32:30.240 --> 0:32:33.080 a Workshop generally puts a lot of care into, like 0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:35.680 you know, making media for children. This is a company 0:32:35.720 --> 0:32:37.960 that works with them, so I was interested in what 0:32:38.080 --> 0:32:41.640 she was going to say, and basically she talked not 0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:45.200 about any products that her company's making, but instead research 0:32:45.360 --> 0:32:49.600 into how like AI is affecting gen Z, how gen 0:32:49.720 --> 0:32:52.600 Z wants to like interact with AI, and talked about 0:32:52.600 --> 0:32:54.440 a whole bunch of research that her company has been 0:32:54.480 --> 0:32:57.280 doing for the past few years on like what people 0:32:57.400 --> 0:32:59.800 you know, my age and you know younger, what they're 0:32:59.800 --> 0:33:03.120 attitudes are towards this thing that has become like an 0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:06.680 increasingly encroaching part of their lives. I'm just going to 0:33:06.920 --> 0:33:08.479 play a series of clips. 0:33:08.720 --> 0:33:11.480 Couldn't be more excited. So I was sharing this. 0:33:11.520 --> 0:33:13.160 Morning a little bit about what we're learning. 0:33:14.080 --> 0:33:17.080 That question is what if the tech savvy generation isn't 0:33:17.120 --> 0:33:19.120 buying anymore? We have a lot of one of the 0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:21.880 interesting opinions and assumptions in our heads that these are 0:33:21.880 --> 0:33:23.479 the one they are going to be the first users 0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:25.440 and the first viewers, and in many ways they are, 0:33:25.800 --> 0:33:28.760 but then the ones that also comes the most informed 0:33:28.800 --> 0:33:32.440 opinions not just about how badly the tech feels, how 0:33:32.520 --> 0:33:35.120 cringey some of them imp be landing, but also how 0:33:35.160 --> 0:33:37.680 it's affecting their sense of humanity. 0:33:38.000 --> 0:33:39.880 That's fascinating yeah. 0:33:39.960 --> 0:33:42.160 The very first thing this is literally like the minutes 0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:44.040 into the panels, is like after they do their introductions, 0:33:44.080 --> 0:33:46.680 the first thing to talk about is how gen Z 0:33:47.120 --> 0:33:49.240 is both an early adopter of new tech, but they're 0:33:49.240 --> 0:33:51.240 also kind of the most AI critical. 0:33:51.480 --> 0:33:51.720 Yeah. 0:33:51.800 --> 0:33:53.000 Yeah, yeah, it's cringey. 0:33:53.280 --> 0:33:56.240 Yeah, like how it feels cringy and not just that, 0:33:56.400 --> 0:34:00.320 how it's affecting people's sense of humanity and viewing them like, 0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:02.080 you know, in some ways, as like an obstacle to 0:34:02.120 --> 0:34:04.440 get over. But also this is I'm not sure how 0:34:04.480 --> 0:34:06.720 I feel about about, like, you know, Karen and the 0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:09.879 company she's representing here, because in some ways I felt 0:34:09.960 --> 0:34:13.720 like she's probably actually good. She just had to frame 0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:16.000 all of the things she was saying as like shocking 0:34:16.040 --> 0:34:19.040 revelations to all these tech bros, be like, yeah, actually, 0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:22.520 it turns out kids surprisingly don't want their lives run 0:34:22.520 --> 0:34:22.960 by AI. 0:34:23.120 --> 0:34:25.520 Yeah, don't want to communicate only with AI. 0:34:25.760 --> 0:34:27.319 I actually liked what she was saying, it is just 0:34:27.360 --> 0:34:29.560 her presentation of it felt kind of odd at times 0:34:29.840 --> 0:34:31.560 because because of who the audience is. 0:34:31.640 --> 0:34:33.160 Do you get see do you get the feeling that 0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:37.080 she was like a bad person trying to help like 0:34:37.239 --> 0:34:40.560 other bad people sell poison to children or somebody who 0:34:40.600 --> 0:34:43.000 was trying to like in a way that these guys 0:34:43.040 --> 0:34:44.920 would listen to tell them that what they're doing is in. 0:34:45.000 --> 0:34:47.799 Work maybe like twenty eighty so like like a little 0:34:47.840 --> 0:34:49.759 bit of like, yeah, we have to sell some of this, 0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:53.720 but mostly it felt like trying to inform people about 0:34:53.880 --> 0:34:56.600 how this isn't really what people want and you know, 0:34:56.640 --> 0:34:59.200 it has a lot of actual drawbacks. Here's a clip 0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:01.440 of Karen talking about the sort of questions that they're 0:35:01.480 --> 0:35:04.239 asking kids to you know, get data on how they 0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:05.040 feel about AI. 0:35:06.239 --> 0:35:10.040 Here's a few provocative ones. We really put tangible expressions 0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:10.719 what it. 0:35:10.719 --> 0:35:12.520 Would be like to interact with. 0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:16.240 A potential AI tool, And so we asked questions like, Okay, 0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:19.240 you've recently had a friend breakup. What kind of intervention 0:35:19.360 --> 0:35:21.560 do you want? Do you want someone to counsel you 0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:24.040 through that process or do you want someone to kind 0:35:24.040 --> 0:35:26.040 of replace their friend for the time being, just you 0:35:26.080 --> 0:35:29.279 can you know, back yourself out from that relationship. So 0:35:29.360 --> 0:35:32.799 by asking really tangible questions, by putting prototypes in front 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:34.799 of youth, we were able to co design to view 0:35:35.160 --> 0:35:39.520 insights at this one always gets all audience members. We 0:35:39.640 --> 0:35:43.920 put out a provocational expression of Imagine you could have 0:35:44.360 --> 0:35:48.319 an AI trained on your preferences, on your personalities, live 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:51.280 your life for you. Imagine they can swipe your tender 0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:55.040 for you. They would have the any conversations or they 0:35:55.040 --> 0:35:57.640 would go through the awkward introductions you know, new person 0:35:57.680 --> 0:35:58.440 in school. 0:35:58.800 --> 0:36:00.640 And we heard some really interesting things. 0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:02.880 I want to go on a bad day for myself 0:36:02.880 --> 0:36:04.280 and I want to have that davcation. 0:36:05.160 --> 0:36:09.440 There was a really interesting sign that be able to 0:36:09.440 --> 0:36:11.160 live life for yourselves at badge of want. 0:36:12.440 --> 0:36:15.040 Being able to live life for yourself is a badge 0:36:15.160 --> 0:36:15.680 of honor. 0:36:15.920 --> 0:36:18.480 Amazing that human beings don't want a robot to replace 0:36:18.560 --> 0:36:21.360 them in such drudgery as the search for love and 0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:26.200 human connection. Incredible that that teens aren't interested in letting 0:36:26.239 --> 0:36:28.440 a robot go on dates for them. 0:36:28.640 --> 0:36:30.640 No, it's super interesting and like even like the first 0:36:30.840 --> 0:36:33.720 thing she said about you know you like lost some friends. 0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:36.239 Do you want an AI to like, you know, like 0:36:36.400 --> 0:36:38.160 counsel you or like you know, like like like talk 0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:41.200 about your feelings or do you want a friend replacement? 0:36:41.800 --> 0:36:45.080 And no, people don't want a friend replacement. And this 0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:47.600 even like honor question of like you know, like AI 0:36:48.040 --> 0:36:50.239 swiping your Tinder for you trying to figure out what 0:36:50.320 --> 0:36:53.719 your preferences are. No, like gen Z wants to live 0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:56.400 life for themselves. It's like it's odd because I. 0:36:57.320 --> 0:36:59.239 Because that's what being a person, that's to be a person. 0:36:59.280 --> 0:37:01.120 That's right, But like it's all how that's framed as 0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:02.920 like a surprising revelation. 0:37:03.120 --> 0:37:04.720 Wow, these kids want to live lives. 0:37:05.320 --> 0:37:06.839 So yeah, it was it was a kind of an 0:37:06.840 --> 0:37:09.399 odd pedal to go to. She highlighted that the key 0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:12.560 areas of tension in AI for for gen Z is 0:37:12.880 --> 0:37:17.480 twofold a creative expression and human relationships. These are the 0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:21.759 two biggest things that people are concerned about is how 0:37:21.960 --> 0:37:24.359 how will affect your ability to you know, make art 0:37:24.480 --> 0:37:26.640 be creative and what it means for like, you know, 0:37:26.840 --> 0:37:29.080 relationships as a human being, right, especially if you're being 0:37:29.080 --> 0:37:31.640 asked questions about you know, would you let an AI 0:37:32.239 --> 0:37:34.520 like meet someone that you want to date first, have 0:37:35.719 --> 0:37:37.800 have them go through like a first like fake AI 0:37:37.960 --> 0:37:42.280 date to like to like get through like icebreaker questions 0:37:42.400 --> 0:37:42.760 or something. 0:37:43.239 --> 0:37:46.080 The amount of people I meet who feel that way 0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:49.120 about like their digital twins or like who take pride 0:37:49.239 --> 0:37:51.640 in having like an ai trained off of their social 0:37:51.760 --> 0:37:54.600 media posts at events like these. It's shocking to me 0:37:54.760 --> 0:37:58.600 because like, do you feel good about saying that a 0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:01.480 chat bought you feel like it is you that you 0:38:01.560 --> 0:38:04.920 have trained to chatbot to be a reasonable simulacrum of yourself. 0:38:04.960 --> 0:38:08.200 Do you feel good about thinking that? Does that make 0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:10.080 you happy about yourself? 0:38:10.320 --> 0:38:10.480 Well? 0:38:10.560 --> 0:38:13.960 And the data that person was talking about showed no, like, yeah, 0:38:14.000 --> 0:38:16.840 people actually don't want these things, Like no, that's actually 0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:19.439 is it what anyone wants out of life? This isn't 0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:21.640 what anyone wants out of this technology, right, Like we 0:38:21.760 --> 0:38:23.520 use AI all the time, you know, like like you know, 0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:26.239 like auto complete. It has a whole bunch of like 0:38:26.239 --> 0:38:27.480 you know, pretty basic uses. 0:38:27.719 --> 0:38:30.160 Yeah, it saves me from having dispel certain words too 0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:30.680 many times. 0:38:30.840 --> 0:38:32.920 Yeah, but we don't want it to like go on 0:38:33.120 --> 0:38:35.200 dates for us. And the whole part of being human 0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:37.520 is having you know, a degree of bad experiences and 0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:40.520 that that helps shape us as people. And this isn't 0:38:40.560 --> 0:38:42.600 like a hurdle to get over. This is like a 0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:44.799 part of what it means to be human. And then 0:38:45.000 --> 0:38:46.440 she kind of talked about that a little bit more 0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:48.240 in this last clip that I'll play. 0:38:50.440 --> 0:38:53.279 The next one here. I prefer to give opportunities to 0:38:53.320 --> 0:38:54.520 people over technology. 0:38:55.120 --> 0:38:58.479 I think these are the ones, and again they've seen 0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:03.879 what it's like full overplaced. I'll definitely share a lot more, 0:39:04.000 --> 0:39:07.319 but starting off with a few key learnings gen Z's 0:39:07.360 --> 0:39:09.560 value advice and perspective from lived experience. 0:39:10.040 --> 0:39:11.720 There's something about designing for friction. 0:39:12.080 --> 0:39:15.440 I'm gonnay like a design for friction in our age 0:39:15.520 --> 0:39:18.840 of optimization and our age of assuming that everything should 0:39:18.840 --> 0:39:20.800 move as fast as possible to make life as smooth 0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:24.279 as possible. There's something about the challenge and that comes 0:39:24.320 --> 0:39:27.120 back to play, right, Why would we spend so much 0:39:27.200 --> 0:39:30.160 time to hit a ball several hundred yards away. 0:39:31.000 --> 0:39:33.680 There's something about the joy of achieving, the joy. 0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:36.759 Of overcoming challenge, the joy of bringing through your first 0:39:36.840 --> 0:39:39.600 friend break up, your boyfriend or girl friend breakup. 0:39:39.480 --> 0:39:40.640 That makes you to a person. 0:39:41.320 --> 0:39:44.320 And as many times as helicopter parents or as people 0:39:44.440 --> 0:39:47.719 who are designed technology assume that the smoothest possible path 0:39:48.040 --> 0:39:49.280 is the best possible path. 0:39:49.320 --> 0:39:53.320 There's some push back there, some pushback, some pushback to 0:39:53.400 --> 0:39:57.359 the idea that like you should live a life, your 0:39:57.400 --> 0:39:59.040 one precious life should be lived. 0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:02.120 No, there's a a bunch of interesting stuff there. Gen 0:40:02.200 --> 0:40:04.480 Z has great fears about being replaced. Yeah, you know, 0:40:04.640 --> 0:40:09.080 like having like workforce replacement gen Z prefers to actually 0:40:09.120 --> 0:40:12.160 like make connections and network with other people our age 0:40:12.200 --> 0:40:13.560 and actually like share opportunities. 0:40:13.800 --> 0:40:14.000 Yeah. 0:40:14.239 --> 0:40:16.399 In previous panels, this was something that was also talked 0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:18.800 about how millennials were way more like selective about like 0:40:18.880 --> 0:40:21.520 sharing like employment opportunities because they were like so focused 0:40:21.560 --> 0:40:23.480 on like making sure that they make it and there's 0:40:23.480 --> 0:40:26.759 a lot more like like open collaboration and sharing sharing opportunities. 0:40:26.760 --> 0:40:28.960 It's harder, so you guys have to be better about that. 0:40:29.440 --> 0:40:33.160 Yeah, yeah, no talking about you know, like designing for friction. 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:36.120 There's like there's value in something being challenging. 0:40:36.280 --> 0:40:39.600 That was very interesting because the surprise about that because 0:40:39.600 --> 0:40:42.319 it is it is this kind of I'm sure most 0:40:42.400 --> 0:40:45.040 of these people were born to wealth and privilege and 0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:47.440 the first thing that people do with money, the primary 0:40:47.520 --> 0:40:50.439 reason to have money is to reduce friction. The fact 0:40:50.440 --> 0:40:53.640 that that's surprising to anyone that like, no, like friction's 0:40:53.760 --> 0:40:56.680 necessary otherwise you're not a person. I mean, it's like that. 0:40:56.880 --> 0:40:59.759 It's like the Gooule we saw the other night, right, 0:40:59.880 --> 0:41:03.560 like you know, they're just not really people, you know. 0:41:04.280 --> 0:41:05.759 One thing she kind of closed on in this section 0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:08.640 is talking about how gen Z does not trust AI 0:41:08.800 --> 0:41:12.120 to understand the nuance of their lives, especially in this 0:41:12.200 --> 0:41:15.640 age of like tech optimization. Like that misses a part 0:41:15.719 --> 0:41:17.919 of what it means to, like, you know, feel proud 0:41:17.960 --> 0:41:19.319 of yourself and the work that you've done. 0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:19.640 Yeah. 0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:21.160 Something she should talk about at the very end of 0:41:21.200 --> 0:41:23.440 the panel was like how they hadn't factored in like 0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:26.239 like gen Z, you know and people in general, right, 0:41:26.440 --> 0:41:28.839 will will feel proud about, you know, making a piece 0:41:28.880 --> 0:41:32.479 of art, yeah, and they don't have that same sense 0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:35.879 of pride for an AI generated image, no, whether it's 0:41:35.880 --> 0:41:39.719 like a screenplay, whether it's whatever. Someone gave an example of, like, 0:41:39.920 --> 0:41:42.120 you know, I have a kid who does creative stuff. 0:41:42.400 --> 0:41:44.840 They edit videos, right, and there is AI tools that 0:41:44.920 --> 0:41:47.839 make editing videos like easier, But if the AI does 0:41:47.920 --> 0:41:50.680 all the work, they don't feel happy about that, Like 0:41:50.800 --> 0:41:53.319 they don't feel proud, They don't feel like they've actually 0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:55.680 achieved something. And you have to feel proud about the 0:41:55.719 --> 0:41:57.799 work that you've done, so like there's actually a sense 0:41:57.840 --> 0:41:59.960 of like ownership over like the art that we create. 0:42:00.040 --> 0:42:00.160 Eight. 0:42:00.680 --> 0:42:05.920 An exact quote was quote you can't eliminate life formative aspects. 0:42:06.719 --> 0:42:08.600 Which which is like, yes, it is called life. Yeah, 0:42:09.000 --> 0:42:10.320 you don't ever have anything. 0:42:10.520 --> 0:42:13.279 I'm happy someone at CS is saying this, the fact 0:42:13.320 --> 0:42:14.760 that it needs to be said. 0:42:14.719 --> 0:42:18.480 At all very bleak, very sad. It's really bleak. Yeah, 0:42:18.840 --> 0:42:24.640 dating people, making friends, being social, doing whatever it is 0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:27.760 you do for a living as yourself is what life 0:42:27.960 --> 0:42:29.080 is like. 0:42:29.440 --> 0:42:29.640 Yeah. 0:42:29.680 --> 0:42:31.160 I think last thing that you talked about is like 0:42:31.400 --> 0:42:35.279 gen Z aren't technophobes, but they do have strong boundaries. 0:42:35.440 --> 0:42:35.640 Yeah. 0:42:35.719 --> 0:42:38.080 Good, and they have to reinforce their own sense of 0:42:38.160 --> 0:42:43.920 self because we're constantly being bombarded with you know, slop content, influencers, podcasts, 0:42:44.040 --> 0:42:47.080 live streams, like everything you know, TikTok social media. So 0:42:47.200 --> 0:42:50.120 we have strongly boundaries on how tech it like integrates 0:42:50.480 --> 0:42:52.440 into our lives. And a lot of the way these 0:42:52.480 --> 0:42:55.520 tech bros want AI to like become more invasive. We 0:42:55.600 --> 0:42:57.400 are not super into no. 0:42:57.760 --> 0:43:00.520 Like all they're offering people is like this this machine 0:43:00.600 --> 0:43:03.600 will do everything that you actually want to do with 0:43:03.719 --> 0:43:06.040 your time, and also you won't have a job, like 0:43:06.160 --> 0:43:08.320 that's what big tech is promising gen Z. 0:43:08.600 --> 0:43:11.280 Yeah, so that's how I started my day speaking. 0:43:10.960 --> 0:43:15.600 Of gen z. Z stands for zillions of dollars that 0:43:15.719 --> 0:43:28.719 will get if you listen to these ads and we're back. 0:43:29.680 --> 0:43:32.880 So unfortunately, that panel wasn't just talking about how kids 0:43:33.000 --> 0:43:35.480 maybe don't want AI to run their lives. It also 0:43:35.600 --> 0:43:38.399 had two other people from AI products. The first one 0:43:38.760 --> 0:43:42.120 that I'll mention is called ready Land, which I think 0:43:42.120 --> 0:43:44.279 I think partnered with Amazon ors to some degree. It 0:43:44.320 --> 0:43:48.040 at least uses like Amazon Alexa's essentially a chooser own 0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:50.800 adventure story book with like a natural physical copy that 0:43:50.920 --> 0:43:53.040 Alexa will read to you and you can talk to 0:43:53.200 --> 0:43:55.760 it so you can talk to characters and choose different pathways. 0:43:56.040 --> 0:43:57.680 I was more skeptical out of that first, because I 0:43:57.760 --> 0:44:00.640 just don't like AI's reading books to kids. Became more 0:44:00.760 --> 0:44:04.160 like an interactive story thing, and it actually seemed kind 0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:07.360 of good at what it was doing. And then the 0:44:07.440 --> 0:44:10.960 guy behind it clarified ready Land is not using AI 0:44:11.120 --> 0:44:15.080 to generate new content for kids. It's all like pre programmed, 0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:18.000 like human paths, you know, just with so many variables 0:44:18.080 --> 0:44:20.160 already built in based on you know, like if you're 0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:22.239 making food in one of these books, or like you know, 0:44:22.280 --> 0:44:24.160 a kid wants to go on like a weird side quest. 0:44:24.480 --> 0:44:27.680 The AI already has like stuff for how to handle that. Yeah, 0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:28.839 he knows how to say these words and knows how 0:44:28.840 --> 0:44:31.240 to stitch together these things. But it's not actually generating 0:44:31.640 --> 0:44:34.719 new content itself. It's if everything is like pre baked, 0:44:34.719 --> 0:44:37.440 it can be assembled in many different ways. Okay, so 0:44:37.560 --> 0:44:39.759 every time you read a book to the kid, it'll 0:44:39.800 --> 0:44:43.120 be slightly different because the kid will respond to certain 0:44:43.200 --> 0:44:45.960 plot elements. The kid can like talk to talk to characters, 0:44:46.239 --> 0:44:49.280 ask questions. So like this was this was actually pretty interesting. 0:44:49.560 --> 0:44:52.000 The fact that it's simply not even generating new content 0:44:52.280 --> 0:44:55.400 makes it miles better than any of these other AI 0:44:55.600 --> 0:44:56.320 Kids products. 0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:58.440 That it's actually just kind of using some of the 0:44:58.480 --> 0:45:00.759 tech that makes up AI exactly allow you to make 0:45:01.239 --> 0:45:03.920 something humans wrote more reactive exactly. 0:45:04.080 --> 0:45:05.640 Yeah, So like it's it's it's it's actually like a 0:45:05.680 --> 0:45:08.680 pretty interesting piece of technology, and it's not just Alexa 0:45:09.000 --> 0:45:11.720 reading a story book. It has like a large interactive 0:45:11.719 --> 0:45:14.239 element which you know that makes the Alexa part, you know, 0:45:14.560 --> 0:45:17.880 actually useful. And then there was this other product what 0:45:18.080 --> 0:45:20.359 was this what what was this one called? It's from 0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:24.600 coming called Skyrocket Toys, Hoe the AI Teddy Bear or 0:45:24.680 --> 0:45:29.960 something like that, pokay Hoe the AI Bear, which does 0:45:30.160 --> 0:45:34.439 generate live content with with guardrails. He did say, oh good, 0:45:34.960 --> 0:45:38.320 but the AI content both comes from the input and 0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:41.399 the output. You talked about guardrails, you know, he said. 0:45:41.440 --> 0:45:44.680 You know, chat gpt does have internal guardrails, but the 0:45:44.840 --> 0:45:50.399 reliability is suspect, which there certainly is, considering just last 0:45:50.440 --> 0:45:52.360 week there was a piece of news about chat gpt 0:45:52.480 --> 0:45:53.600 helping someone build a bomb. 0:45:53.840 --> 0:45:56.400 Yeah, yeah, which they used in just this magical city. 0:45:56.680 --> 0:45:59.719 Yes, so he didn't say that like guardrail reliability can 0:45:59.760 --> 0:46:01.440 be so, but there is a difference when you have 0:46:01.600 --> 0:46:03.960 certainly like like more like child's friendly features turned on. 0:46:04.480 --> 0:46:07.400 But he admitted that like moderation is part of the challenge. 0:46:07.840 --> 0:46:11.360 I don't know. He basically how this works is you 0:46:11.719 --> 0:46:14.080 have an app synced up with this AI teddy bear 0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:16.480 that talks with a not very pleasing voice. 0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:17.400 Oh I got to hear it. 0:46:17.960 --> 0:46:19.319 Do you want me to pull this up? Yes? 0:46:19.440 --> 0:46:19.960 Absolutely? 0:46:20.239 --> 0:46:22.799 Okay, yeah, But basically you put in a whole bunch 0:46:22.800 --> 0:46:24.640 of story inputs, being like I want the story set 0:46:24.719 --> 0:46:27.320 in this place, I want it featuring these types of characters. 0:46:27.400 --> 0:46:29.360 I want this archetype to be the villain, or it 0:46:29.440 --> 0:46:31.880 has like dozens or not hundreds of like eve like 0:46:31.960 --> 0:46:34.520 archetypal things that you can like click and then the 0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:36.960 teddy bear will will generate a new story. So it 0:46:37.080 --> 0:46:39.880 is generating new content, but with like pre baked characters. Okay, 0:46:40.280 --> 0:46:42.759 so then it'll sit together the story. The weirder you 0:46:43.000 --> 0:46:45.360 make the variables, the weirder the story is going to be. Well, 0:46:45.440 --> 0:46:46.759 let me play a clip for Robert here. 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:53.399 It's a bright and shiny January morning, the perfect time 0:46:53.560 --> 0:46:56.680 for another story. Did you know that in Las Vegas, 0:46:56.800 --> 0:47:00.960 where our story takes place, they haven't gigantic called the 0:47:01.080 --> 0:47:01.720 high Rowler. 0:47:02.239 --> 0:47:04.200 It's taller than the Statue of Liberty. 0:47:04.480 --> 0:47:07.320 So the whole in the real world events in places 0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:10.280 based on the setting achieves What if I told. 0:47:10.080 --> 0:47:13.080 You there's a mystery waiting to be unround at the 0:47:13.200 --> 0:47:14.920 consumer Electronic Shoe. 0:47:15.640 --> 0:47:21.399 There's excitement here and these that guy like sitting there 0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:24.120 talking almost rolling his eyes at his own product while 0:47:24.160 --> 0:47:26.840 it yaps in his lap is a perfect like he 0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:29.680 clearly didn't think about how that would look because it 0:47:29.800 --> 0:47:32.720 does not make an appealing ad for the product. 0:47:33.000 --> 0:47:36.720 No, so it doesn't sound good. So yeah, they generated 0:47:36.760 --> 0:47:40.400 a story set in cees in Las Vegas and he 0:47:40.440 --> 0:47:42.880 would occasionally interrupt the bear to like explain what it 0:47:43.000 --> 0:47:46.160 was doing. So that was the other product, not nearly 0:47:46.360 --> 0:47:48.719 as polished or like really really as thoughtful as like 0:47:48.800 --> 0:47:52.279 the AI story book. But you know, maybe if you 0:47:52.560 --> 0:47:55.799 are tired of having to, you know, talk to your kid, 0:47:55.880 --> 0:47:57.640 you can just get one of these teddy bears to 0:47:57.800 --> 0:47:59.360 yeah throw thrown front raise it. 0:47:59.400 --> 0:48:01.120 I mean it looks I think it could probably handle 0:48:01.160 --> 0:48:03.120 all of the physical contact they need too, so you 0:48:03.160 --> 0:48:05.279 don't even need to ever touch your child. And in fact, 0:48:05.560 --> 0:48:07.920 you can just have chat GPT root that through the 0:48:08.000 --> 0:48:11.400 bear and never even see your own flesh and blood. 0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:13.839 Like I think ideally you would have them cut out 0:48:13.920 --> 0:48:16.840 of there, you know, really surgically remove that baby, you know, 0:48:16.960 --> 0:48:19.359 a month or two early, and that way you can 0:48:19.440 --> 0:48:21.800 kind of absolutely minimize the amount of time that you 0:48:21.920 --> 0:48:23.800 ever spend in contact with your spawn. 0:48:24.280 --> 0:48:26.439 One other thing I will add is that the ready 0:48:26.520 --> 0:48:29.560 Land guy the AI story book particlarly when talking about, 0:48:29.560 --> 0:48:31.759 you know, the importance of guardrails, he said that there's 0:48:31.840 --> 0:48:35.400 multiple levels to safety. Right, an AI Kid's robot that 0:48:35.600 --> 0:48:37.840 swears right, it's one thing that's it's pretty easy to 0:48:37.920 --> 0:48:39.680 avoid actually, Like that's that's pretty easy. 0:48:39.719 --> 0:48:41.839 There's a limited number of swear words, right. 0:48:41.800 --> 0:48:43.080 And you could just like you could just block out 0:48:43.080 --> 0:48:44.680 certain things from happening. Yeah, you can build that in. 0:48:44.880 --> 0:48:47.120 But another aspect that's really important to safety is like 0:48:47.239 --> 0:48:50.000 the accuracy of the things it's saying, right, Like, what 0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:52.480 if it's saying something that's supposed to be you know, 0:48:52.640 --> 0:48:55.600 some like factual statement about the world that's just that 0:48:55.719 --> 0:48:58.160 just like isn't true or can actually like lead to danger, Right, 0:48:58.400 --> 0:49:00.480 what if it tells your kid to do something which 0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:02.399 is actually kind of dangerous, or what if it says 0:49:02.719 --> 0:49:04.920 like not even not even directly telling them, but you know, 0:49:05.040 --> 0:49:06.880 it says something that if the kid then tries to 0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:09.239 do that, it's really dangerous. And like this is why 0:49:09.600 --> 0:49:12.120 their storybook program, you know, does not generate new content. 0:49:12.320 --> 0:49:14.720 So everything it says is like it's like already pre approved, 0:49:14.800 --> 0:49:17.120 Like it already is going to have you know, like 0:49:17.320 --> 0:49:22.960 verified like verified safe you know sentences versus this ai 0:49:23.320 --> 0:49:25.560 teddy Bear. Because it is generating new content, you know, 0:49:25.719 --> 0:49:28.200 it could if things go horribly wrong, you know, talk 0:49:28.239 --> 0:49:31.279 about drinking bleach. You know. Yeah, theoretically, you know, it's 0:49:31.440 --> 0:49:33.799 just just like something you know, like things can go wrong. 0:49:34.160 --> 0:49:36.239 So it's not just about you know, avoiding bad words 0:49:36.360 --> 0:49:38.640 or talking about sex or you know those types of 0:49:38.719 --> 0:49:41.759 like like inappropriate things. It's also making sure it's not 0:49:41.840 --> 0:49:44.600 like hallucinating or saying things that could like lead to 0:49:44.640 --> 0:49:46.000 like dangerous situations. 0:49:46.400 --> 0:49:51.399 Right, Well, the good news is that I don't think 0:49:51.520 --> 0:49:54.200 these are going to be wildly successful products. I mean, 0:49:54.239 --> 0:49:59.000 I guess we'll see. But these are super expensive and like, 0:49:59.320 --> 0:50:00.759 did you get a price point for that bear? 0:50:01.000 --> 0:50:02.640 I did not hear her price point for the bear. 0:50:02.840 --> 0:50:04.840 I'm curious as to what they're going to be charging 0:50:04.920 --> 0:50:06.640 for it. I mean, we'll see if any of this 0:50:06.680 --> 0:50:10.440 stuff really does take off. I wouldn't consider it an 0:50:10.440 --> 0:50:12.960 optimism to hope this stuff takes off, but like, they 0:50:13.000 --> 0:50:16.279 don't seem like great products to me, so I guess 0:50:16.360 --> 0:50:20.240 we'll see. I read something very interesting that is related exactly, 0:50:20.400 --> 0:50:22.000 and it probably was he might have been talked about 0:50:22.080 --> 0:50:24.799 like that weird bear or something. I read something very 0:50:24.840 --> 0:50:28.279 interesting on the subject of like AI children's toys from 0:50:28.360 --> 0:50:31.080 a guy who was like an AI developer. This was 0:50:31.120 --> 0:50:34.480 from a post on Twitter by Alex Volkov. I got 0:50:34.520 --> 0:50:36.319 my six year old daughter an AI toy for her 0:50:36.360 --> 0:50:39.320 birthday that arrived for Christmas instead, she unpacked it all excited. 0:50:39.400 --> 0:50:41.719 I explained that this isn't like other toys, that this 0:50:41.840 --> 0:50:43.680 one has AI in it. She of course knows what 0:50:43.760 --> 0:50:46.359 AI is, seeing the things I've built and interacted with them, 0:50:46.680 --> 0:50:49.640 chatted with chat GBT and Santa Mode, knows that Daddy 0:50:49.760 --> 0:50:53.480 is doing AI, et cetera. So a very interesting experiment happened. 0:50:53.520 --> 0:50:56.439 After Magical Toys reached out and fixed the issue reference below. 0:50:56.719 --> 0:50:58.759 She started playing with this dino, chatted with it, and 0:50:58.840 --> 0:51:01.280 then learned to turn it off and wanted to talk anymore. 0:51:01.520 --> 0:51:03.320 She still loves playing with it, dressed it up. It 0:51:03.400 --> 0:51:05.239 now has paper shoes in the top hat that we 0:51:05.320 --> 0:51:07.080 made together. But every time I asked her if she 0:51:07.280 --> 0:51:09.799 liked to chat with it, she says no. A few 0:51:09.840 --> 0:51:11.760 times it turned it back on and she did speak 0:51:11.800 --> 0:51:13.480 with it for a bit, and then she just turned 0:51:13.520 --> 0:51:16.680 it off again, not wanting to engage. I gently asked why, 0:51:16.760 --> 0:51:19.120 and I wasn't really able to understand where there's the resistance. 0:51:19.200 --> 0:51:21.040 It's not weird to her. In fact, at one point 0:51:21.120 --> 0:51:23.400 she was pretending that Dinah was a baby and was 0:51:23.480 --> 0:51:25.600 turned on. So I told her, let's ask it to 0:51:25.640 --> 0:51:28.080 pretend to be a baby, and it obliged and said okay, 0:51:28.239 --> 0:51:31.239 So we asked it to cry. Granted, they don't have 0:51:31.320 --> 0:51:34.080 an amazing advanced voice mode like open AI, so it 0:51:34.120 --> 0:51:36.160 did its best, but it sounded weird, which made her 0:51:36.239 --> 0:51:39.160 laugh really hard. It was basically making crying sounds like talking, 0:51:40.040 --> 0:51:42.360 and also there are still technical issues. The voice is 0:51:42.440 --> 0:51:44.720 sometimes choppy, so it could be that it's still uncanny 0:51:44.800 --> 0:51:47.560 for her. I'm honestly fascinated about why the AI aspect 0:51:47.600 --> 0:51:49.399 of this didn't connect with my six year old. 0:51:49.520 --> 0:51:51.479 Because it's creepy, because it's people. 0:51:51.920 --> 0:51:56.799 They don't like it. Nobody wants this. Yeah, ick, yeah, ick. 0:51:57.520 --> 0:51:59.360 I know this is a sample size of one kid here, 0:51:59.360 --> 0:52:01.359 and I'm sure many many things will change. I shall 0:52:01.400 --> 0:52:04.000 grow and learn to interact with more AIS and different forms. 0:52:04.320 --> 0:52:07.760 But the first toy contact was interestingly almost a complete failure. 0:52:09.280 --> 0:52:10.600 That is interesting. 0:52:11.280 --> 0:52:13.200 Yeah, I find that fucking fascinating. 0:52:13.640 --> 0:52:16.600 Yeah, No one wants this, even six year olds. You're like, hey, 0:52:17.040 --> 0:52:19.400 I would prefer to a regular toy you can play with. 0:52:19.680 --> 0:52:22.239 I would prefer all pretend it's a robot, but I 0:52:22.320 --> 0:52:25.960 don't want it to be a robot. That talks to me, Poe. 0:52:26.080 --> 0:52:28.560 The AI bear is fifty dollars on Amazon. 0:52:28.600 --> 0:52:31.279 Oh that's not bad. Actually, no, that's good. Okay, good, 0:52:31.400 --> 0:52:33.080 all right, Well maybe maybe we can. 0:52:32.960 --> 0:52:35.920 Even maybe order one and see and see what we 0:52:36.000 --> 0:52:39.000 can get out of it. Yeah, all right, we're gonna 0:52:39.000 --> 0:52:42.160 go on another break and return to talk once acaind 0:52:42.360 --> 0:52:56.160 about AI products for your children. Okay, we're back. 0:52:57.440 --> 0:52:59.560 So we went and saw something else today while you 0:53:00.000 --> 0:53:03.120 were at a different chunk of the event talking to 0:53:03.239 --> 0:53:06.480 yet another flying car company that promises to revolutionize the 0:53:06.520 --> 0:53:08.600 ease with which we can all do nine to elevens. 0:53:09.160 --> 0:53:12.320 Super excited for that future. By the way, I stumbled 0:53:12.400 --> 0:53:16.000 upon the booth for a company called TCL, a pretty 0:53:16.000 --> 0:53:18.040 big company, fairly large, Yeah, large com and make a 0:53:18.080 --> 0:53:20.399 lot of TVs stuff like that. They had a couple 0:53:20.440 --> 0:53:22.640 of things. They had an AI laundry machine. 0:53:22.760 --> 0:53:24.040 So many air laundry bots. 0:53:24.200 --> 0:53:26.759 Yeah, this one was the worst because it's like this 0:53:26.920 --> 0:53:32.640 little almost a soft rounded pyramid shape. It hangs your laundry. 0:53:32.760 --> 0:53:34.719 They say they can't do folding yet, so it just 0:53:34.760 --> 0:53:37.480 sort of like picks up dry laundry and holds it. 0:53:38.239 --> 0:53:39.520 Like it just suspends it in the air. 0:53:39.600 --> 0:53:42.120 It suspends it in the air inside of itself. And 0:53:42.200 --> 0:53:44.360 also it can only do a kilogram of laundry. The 0:53:44.400 --> 0:53:48.160 only thing they had in there was like handkerchiefs and scarfs, 0:53:48.360 --> 0:53:51.320 So it's like probably a couple of thousand dollars, but 0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:54.840 you can AI can clean your handkerchiefs and scarfs. 0:53:54.600 --> 0:53:56.640 As opposed to my regular washing machine. 0:53:56.760 --> 0:53:58.440 Yeah, and they had a washing machine that it can 0:53:58.560 --> 0:54:01.680 identify and count exactly what clothes are in it, how 0:54:01.719 --> 0:54:03.480 many of them there are, and it'll tell you the 0:54:03.560 --> 0:54:06.759 soil level and YadA YadA, YadA YadA. Like I'm sure 0:54:06.800 --> 0:54:10.000 some people changing will want this shit, but it's like, yeah, 0:54:10.360 --> 0:54:13.319 only people who have a lot of money and want 0:54:13.360 --> 0:54:15.239 to spend it on a laundry machine, because I don't 0:54:15.239 --> 0:54:18.239 see that it actually reduces the amount of work you 0:54:18.400 --> 0:54:21.040 need to do at this point. But the thing they 0:54:21.120 --> 0:54:23.440 had at the booth that caught my eye was a 0:54:23.560 --> 0:54:27.640 robot toy for kids. AI Space Me is the name 0:54:27.719 --> 0:54:31.000 of the robot. Baby Yoda was a partial inspiration because 0:54:31.080 --> 0:54:34.879 like Ferby, Yeah, poor Ferby, there's some porg in there. 0:54:34.920 --> 0:54:38.120 It's a two part toy. The interior part is like 0:54:38.239 --> 0:54:42.400 a swaddled up almost looking little porg thing with acute 0:54:42.480 --> 0:54:45.359 face and the eyes are reasonably good, Like they did 0:54:45.400 --> 0:54:47.880 a decent job of the eyes not looking creepy, but 0:54:48.080 --> 0:54:51.000 like that blink and change color and contract and expand, 0:54:51.080 --> 0:54:53.600 and then it's got like two little flapper arms that 0:54:53.719 --> 0:54:56.920 can like wiggle, and it's seated inside almost like the 0:54:56.960 --> 0:55:00.840 Aliens and independence stay. It's seated inside like this large 0:55:01.000 --> 0:55:04.759 rolling body frame that allows it to move around on 0:55:04.880 --> 0:55:08.000 the ground. And so it's supposed to like be your 0:55:08.320 --> 0:55:10.960 child's friend. And the first thing that was upsetting to 0:55:11.000 --> 0:55:13.160 me because they had this video ad that would play 0:55:13.440 --> 0:55:16.360 every so often and it was very creepy, and you know, 0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:19.520 I thought back to when we were doing the interview 0:55:19.600 --> 0:55:21.600 with the guy who had like the robot for old people. 0:55:21.640 --> 0:55:23.319 He was like, it's very important that it not tell 0:55:23.400 --> 0:55:26.000 them it loves them. That it like always reiterate that 0:55:26.080 --> 0:55:28.719 it's a false thing. This robot just keeps telling the kid, 0:55:28.760 --> 0:55:31.360 I love you, like I care for you. When the 0:55:31.440 --> 0:55:33.200 lady did a demo, she was like, it's a toy 0:55:33.280 --> 0:55:35.840 that actually knows and cares about your child and like, no, 0:55:35.960 --> 0:55:38.480 it's not, No, it's not don't say that. That shouldn't 0:55:38.480 --> 0:55:40.320 be legal for you. To say that for you to 0:55:40.400 --> 0:55:42.719 sell this to children and tell them it's an intelligent 0:55:42.840 --> 0:55:45.920 being that loves them is like deeply abusive in my opinion, 0:55:46.000 --> 0:55:49.800 Like that is actually child abuse because it's not alive anyway. 0:55:50.320 --> 0:55:53.840 So I had to bring Garrison over because you needed 0:55:53.880 --> 0:55:54.239 to see it. 0:55:55.200 --> 0:55:56.239 Oh and saw it, I did. 0:55:56.480 --> 0:55:59.120 Yeah, And I'm going to play a little clip from 0:55:59.160 --> 0:56:02.600 the ad, so I want you to hear the way 0:56:02.640 --> 0:56:04.040 this thing sounds. 0:56:05.800 --> 0:56:10.600 Everywhere learning shut and growingly amy you reminds us sound. 0:56:22.719 --> 0:56:23.680 Oh my god. 0:56:25.120 --> 0:56:28.799 I found that profoundly upsetting disturbing. Yeah, your kid can 0:56:28.880 --> 0:56:30.600 like pick it up and like walk with it. It'll 0:56:30.680 --> 0:56:32.800 like talk to them, It'll make up stories. It'll like 0:56:33.600 --> 0:56:36.440 look at pictures your kid draws and then generate them 0:56:36.440 --> 0:56:39.600 into like live AI videos. You can put a pin 0:56:39.680 --> 0:56:42.120 on and it will record stuff that your kid does 0:56:42.200 --> 0:56:43.960 and play it back to you at night as a video. 0:56:44.040 --> 0:56:46.480 So again absolutely minimizing the amount of time you have 0:56:46.560 --> 0:56:47.439 to spend with your child. 0:56:47.680 --> 0:56:48.640 It's in the car. 0:56:49.040 --> 0:56:52.399 Yeah, it takes over your car, so that like it's 0:56:52.640 --> 0:56:55.280 talking to you from the screens in your car. 0:56:55.360 --> 0:56:57.600 Like the video like taking taking this thing every like 0:56:57.800 --> 0:57:01.080 everywhere the kid goes It's like the kid's main interaction 0:57:01.239 --> 0:57:04.759 with the world, Yeah, is with this little rolling like 0:57:05.080 --> 0:57:08.279 plastic furbie and yeah, like like talking about like like 0:57:08.400 --> 0:57:11.400 expressing like love and like how damaging this must be 0:57:11.560 --> 0:57:13.120 for like a four year old to have. Like the 0:57:13.200 --> 0:57:16.320 first thing that it constantly expressed like love an affection 0:57:16.480 --> 0:57:19.240 for is this little rolling robot that's that you're gonna 0:57:19.240 --> 0:57:21.080 throw in the garbage in like you know, four years 0:57:21.440 --> 0:57:23.320 when you're when you're like too old for it. How 0:57:23.480 --> 0:57:26.600 like traumatizing and like deeply fucked up. That's gonna be 0:57:26.720 --> 0:57:29.200 for your for like your sense of self and like 0:57:29.320 --> 0:57:30.439 love and affection. 0:57:31.080 --> 0:57:33.240 The mix of things that we're trying to have this do. 0:57:33.600 --> 0:57:35.800 Like the other ones were build as toys, this was 0:57:35.840 --> 0:57:39.000 built as like a friend for your child as well 0:57:39.000 --> 0:57:41.080 as like a home assistance. Yeah, it's supposed to also 0:57:41.200 --> 0:57:43.200 act as like it'll change that you can hook it 0:57:43.240 --> 0:57:46.120 into your smart home so it can change the temperature. 0:57:46.200 --> 0:57:48.360 Like they did a little in person demo where like 0:57:48.440 --> 0:57:50.760 a woman pretending to be a mom talked with it 0:57:50.840 --> 0:57:53.320 about like planting, planned a birthday party for her kid 0:57:53.440 --> 0:57:55.480 with it, Yeah, and it like put food in her 0:57:55.560 --> 0:57:58.760 Amazon cart and like change the temperature inside because more 0:57:58.800 --> 0:58:01.480 people were coming over. One of the things they advertise 0:58:01.600 --> 0:58:04.120 is is security mode, where it like travels around your 0:58:04.120 --> 0:58:06.440 house at night and acts as a sentry watching your 0:58:06.520 --> 0:58:09.800 home like wild stuff. 0:58:10.440 --> 0:58:13.280 No, it's it was Honestly, I've seen a few like 0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:15.760 disturbing things, you know, all of like the the new 0:58:15.880 --> 0:58:18.400 drone tech to have like solar powered drones that can 0:58:18.440 --> 0:58:20.240 stay in the air to drop bombs is like bad, 0:58:20.520 --> 0:58:23.919 But like this type of stuff is like really dehumanizing. 0:58:24.480 --> 0:58:26.360 It really like viscerally upsets me. 0:58:27.640 --> 0:58:32.000 Yeah, and I think probably very bad for children. Everything 0:58:32.080 --> 0:58:35.720 they showed us was incredibly curated, Like I when we 0:58:35.840 --> 0:58:37.840 watched this live thing where she was having a very 0:58:37.920 --> 0:58:41.800 fluid conversation with it that was clearly scripted. Yes, and 0:58:42.200 --> 0:58:45.360 so I wonder how well this thing actually works in practice. 0:58:45.720 --> 0:58:48.120 We never got an actual like live down, No. 0:58:48.240 --> 0:58:50.960 Because they always show it perfectly recognizing the kid, perfectly 0:58:51.080 --> 0:58:53.680 recognizing like what's in their you know, little kid drawings 0:58:53.760 --> 0:58:56.680 and stuff. What it's supposed to be to make beautiful, 0:58:57.360 --> 0:59:00.880 creepily shiny AI moving version some stuff. So like I 0:59:00.960 --> 0:59:04.000 wonder how much less good it's going to be in 0:59:04.160 --> 0:59:06.160 reality than the thing that they've showed us, but it's 0:59:06.200 --> 0:59:09.800 definitely some amount shittier than what they've displayed already. And 0:59:10.160 --> 0:59:11.520 part of why I think that is, like we went 0:59:11.600 --> 0:59:13.680 to check out the booth that this other the South 0:59:13.720 --> 0:59:16.400 Korean company just called I think sk had like a 0:59:16.760 --> 0:59:19.880 they called it a quantum security camera that was AI enabled, 0:59:20.080 --> 0:59:22.280 And then thinking about how like in the ads, it 0:59:22.360 --> 0:59:24.800 always like recognized the kid and its parents and a 0:59:24.920 --> 0:59:27.480 drawing accurately, Well, this one when I flipped off the 0:59:27.560 --> 0:59:30.320 camera with both middle fingers, recognized it and wrote up 0:59:30.320 --> 0:59:32.760 a description of a man giving the camera a thumbs up. 0:59:33.320 --> 0:59:35.360 Like I'm really curious for when these things hit the 0:59:35.480 --> 0:59:38.600 market and people start buying them, like what sort of 0:59:38.680 --> 0:59:41.240 fucked up stuff it'll do, and how kind of big 0:59:41.360 --> 0:59:44.160 the seams are. I don't expect a long life for 0:59:44.240 --> 0:59:46.760 this thing, which is going to be funnier because like 0:59:47.280 --> 0:59:49.920 there was already a big eight hundred dollars like Children's 0:59:49.960 --> 0:59:53.840 Companion AI toy that failed last year and the company 0:59:53.960 --> 0:59:56.640 shut off access to them, and like so parents had 0:59:56.680 --> 0:59:59.160 to explain to their kids who had bonded with this 0:59:59.320 --> 1:00:02.480 thing that it was dying forever. And that's especially excited 1:00:02.520 --> 1:00:04.840 to be because they They've built a robot that talks 1:00:04.880 --> 1:00:06.760 to your kid and tells it it loves them, and 1:00:06.880 --> 1:00:09.520 eventually that robot is going to be taken away from 1:00:09.560 --> 1:00:12.960 the child by the company when it no longer becomes profitable. 1:00:13.000 --> 1:00:16.040 And that's I'm excited for that, like new ground and 1:00:16.080 --> 1:00:20.040 how to fuck up kids. Anyway, that's what I got, Garrison. 1:00:20.160 --> 1:00:23.600 What an uplifting adventures again? 1:00:23.680 --> 1:00:27.200 Yeah? No, that's all. Yeah, it's all great. All right, everybody, 1:00:27.560 --> 1:00:29.920 Well this has been behind the bastards. No it's not, 1:00:30.400 --> 1:00:31.080 or no it's not. 1:00:31.240 --> 1:00:31.560 What is this? 1:00:31.720 --> 1:00:34.560 This has been? It could happen here? A podcast by 1:00:34.600 --> 1:00:36.760 somebody who is slowly going insane. 1:00:36.960 --> 1:00:39.560 Yeah, because we're like four days in Vegas now we 1:00:39.680 --> 1:00:40.760 still have one more day. 1:00:40.880 --> 1:00:43.000 I'm out of my mind. I'm completely broken. 1:00:43.680 --> 1:00:47.040 Uh. Hopefully tomorrow we'll have our final of our like 1:00:47.160 --> 1:00:49.760 on the ground coverage with our with our cees best 1:00:49.840 --> 1:00:52.360 in show. Yeah so and always going to be maybe 1:00:52.400 --> 1:00:52.959 a high note. 1:00:53.440 --> 1:00:55.080 So see you there who. 1:01:07.040 --> 1:01:10.240 Welcome Dick It appen here a podcast increasingly about it 1:01:10.440 --> 1:01:13.840 having happened. We have spent a long time on this 1:01:14.000 --> 1:01:17.560 show talking about what the second Trump administration is going 1:01:17.600 --> 1:01:20.120 to be for trans people and you know, go listen 1:01:20.160 --> 1:01:22.200 to those episodes. The short version is that it is 1:01:22.240 --> 1:01:24.520 going to be very very bad. We're facing care bans, 1:01:24.560 --> 1:01:28.480 we're facing federal funding bands. Things are about to get 1:01:29.000 --> 1:01:33.640 unbelievably bleak. But this campaign didn't come out of nowhere. 1:01:33.680 --> 1:01:36.560 It is the combination of almost a decades worth of 1:01:36.640 --> 1:01:40.320 fighting by the right, And I think we have a 1:01:40.440 --> 1:01:44.840 tendency to treat the rights campaign against trans people as 1:01:45.760 --> 1:01:48.960 something abstract right, as a sort of abstract political debate, 1:01:50.200 --> 1:01:51.959 or even if it affects us, we tend to treat 1:01:52.080 --> 1:01:55.040 the subjects, the immediate subject of the harassment, as sort 1:01:55.040 --> 1:01:59.919 of these distant, famous figures. But the issue with looking 1:01:59.920 --> 1:02:03.680 at it this way is that the harassment, the hatred, 1:02:03.760 --> 1:02:07.000 the violence is happening to real people, with real names 1:02:07.040 --> 1:02:10.040 and faces, who live lives exactly like yours. The difference 1:02:10.040 --> 1:02:12.520 between you sitting in your house right now and someone 1:02:12.560 --> 1:02:16.280 whose face is on TV is about the difference between 1:02:16.600 --> 1:02:18.960 whether a few right wing journalists cover who you are. 1:02:19.840 --> 1:02:21.880 So today we're going to be talking to someone who 1:02:21.960 --> 1:02:26.720 has been subject to almost the entire spectrum and range 1:02:27.360 --> 1:02:30.479 of the sort of emergent far right campaign against trans people, 1:02:30.480 --> 1:02:35.320 who have seen basically the entire campaign against trans people 1:02:35.400 --> 1:02:38.640 evolve specifically in the far right's harassment against them, and 1:02:39.520 --> 1:02:42.400 that person is the artist and musician Precious Child out 1:02:42.440 --> 1:02:44.800 of La Welcome to the show. I wish it was 1:02:44.880 --> 1:02:46.160 under better circumstances. 1:02:47.160 --> 1:02:48.720 Thank you, Thank you for having me mea. 1:02:48.720 --> 1:02:52.000 I glad to be here. Yeah, and I'm excited to 1:02:52.040 --> 1:02:52.360 talk to you. 1:02:52.640 --> 1:02:57.240 I'm slightly apprehensive in the sense that, my god, this 1:02:57.320 --> 1:02:58.120 stuff sucks. 1:02:58.520 --> 1:03:03.280 But yeah, oh you know, it's it's our lives. What 1:03:03.480 --> 1:03:04.000 can we do? 1:03:04.600 --> 1:03:04.800 Yeah? 1:03:04.920 --> 1:03:05.480 What will we do? 1:03:06.440 --> 1:03:06.640 Wow? 1:03:07.640 --> 1:03:10.880 Yes, that's the question for the end of the episode, 1:03:10.960 --> 1:03:12.200 is what are we going to do about all of 1:03:12.240 --> 1:03:16.760 this shit? But let's go back to sort of the beginning. 1:03:16.840 --> 1:03:18.560 Can you can you sort of talk about your first 1:03:18.680 --> 1:03:21.520 encounter with I guess at that point what was a 1:03:22.440 --> 1:03:26.280 not especially mainstream part of the religious right back in 1:03:26.360 --> 1:03:27.360 night around twenty eighteen. 1:03:27.880 --> 1:03:31.400 Yeah, so I've been I've been making music as Precious 1:03:31.480 --> 1:03:34.400 Child for almost a decade and it was my very 1:03:34.440 --> 1:03:37.840 first album that I put out, one called Trapped, that 1:03:38.080 --> 1:03:41.960 had this track on it titled Phantom, and that was 1:03:42.040 --> 1:03:46.200 an instrumental track with just some kind of whispery vocals. 1:03:46.280 --> 1:03:46.400 You know. 1:03:46.520 --> 1:03:49.360 It wasn't a song per se. It was experimental and 1:03:49.560 --> 1:03:51.360 I put on a music video with it, and it 1:03:51.480 --> 1:03:55.240 was pretty It's pretty creepy and there's flashing lights. You know, 1:03:55.280 --> 1:03:58.520 if you think of movies from the eighties like hal Raiser, 1:03:59.120 --> 1:04:00.960 it's kind of like that, you know, like kind of 1:04:01.640 --> 1:04:07.680 evocrative of some type of greater supernatural horror. And the 1:04:08.280 --> 1:04:12.080 far right at that time, the far right, vintage twenty eighteen, 1:04:12.680 --> 1:04:16.280 they found it and started reporting it on mess and 1:04:16.480 --> 1:04:19.040 tagging their friends and saying report this, report this. And 1:04:19.280 --> 1:04:24.840 this was on Instagram and Facebook and on YouTube as well. 1:04:25.480 --> 1:04:28.880 And that video, like, as I said, you know, it's creepy, 1:04:29.400 --> 1:04:33.120 but it's there's nothing political in it. There's a little 1:04:33.160 --> 1:04:37.880 bit of like of blood, but there's no gore. But 1:04:38.040 --> 1:04:42.240 if they found it unsettling and explicitly satanic, that's what 1:04:42.360 --> 1:04:42.800 they said. 1:04:43.320 --> 1:04:48.440 It's is satanic. And that was my first brush with 1:04:48.560 --> 1:04:48.840 the right. 1:04:49.120 --> 1:04:51.720 Yeah, and that's really interesting to me that it's specifically 1:04:51.800 --> 1:04:54.600 the satanic angle that they're taking, because it's like it's 1:04:54.880 --> 1:04:58.280 like in this early enough phase that they're still sort 1:04:58.280 --> 1:05:01.720 of developing their reasons to be angry. They haven't quite 1:05:01.800 --> 1:05:05.880 like metastasized transphobia as like they're driving things, so they're 1:05:05.920 --> 1:05:09.960 kind of they're reaching back into this kind of satanic 1:05:10.040 --> 1:05:14.320 panic era, like the weird nineties and two thousand stuff 1:05:14.440 --> 1:05:17.280 that like when when I was growing up, the town 1:05:17.320 --> 1:05:19.240 that I grew up with super religious, and like you know, 1:05:19.360 --> 1:05:22.360 we had to have lists of like if you were 1:05:22.360 --> 1:05:24.520 inviting like a friend in high school to a party 1:05:25.160 --> 1:05:27.520 whose parents could know that it was a Halloween party 1:05:27.560 --> 1:05:30.120 and whose parents couldn't because they would freak out about 1:05:30.120 --> 1:05:32.880 which is it's like that kind of thing, which I 1:05:32.920 --> 1:05:36.360 don't know, it feels like almost quaint now, even even 1:05:36.440 --> 1:05:37.600 as the stuff's escalated. 1:05:37.800 --> 1:05:40.640 But yeah, it was, as I said, it was a 1:05:40.680 --> 1:05:44.280 moral panic. And their point was that that I was 1:05:44.360 --> 1:05:47.720 a moral for making art like this, and it was 1:05:48.000 --> 1:05:50.360 this is the same thing that's happening today. I'm a 1:05:50.520 --> 1:05:52.440 moral for the art that I make. 1:05:53.000 --> 1:05:54.840 And it's not just my art, but it's me. 1:05:55.520 --> 1:05:55.840 It's me. 1:05:56.240 --> 1:06:00.680 Yeah, And I think that's perhaps what has changed as well, 1:06:01.000 --> 1:06:03.440 Like before they were saying that this is a satanic 1:06:03.520 --> 1:06:06.919 evil person because they're making this art, and now they're 1:06:06.920 --> 1:06:10.040 saying this is a satanic evil person making satanic evil art. 1:06:10.960 --> 1:06:14.760 Yeah, And I think part of the focus on art here, right, 1:06:15.040 --> 1:06:19.280 is this kind of mirrored reflection of the sort of 1:06:19.520 --> 1:06:21.960 I mean of the original Nazis, Right, Like one of 1:06:22.000 --> 1:06:24.160 their big things was just like cracked out on quote 1:06:24.240 --> 1:06:27.560 unquote degenerate art, and they had like these like quote 1:06:27.640 --> 1:06:30.680 unquote degenerate art festivals of just like Jewish artists and 1:06:30.720 --> 1:06:32.600 people whose art they didn't like it. It was, you know, 1:06:32.720 --> 1:06:34.959 like what a thing that was like a significant factor 1:06:35.000 --> 1:06:36.480 in their rise. And I think there's this sort of 1:06:36.600 --> 1:06:39.960 mirror of it here, but I don't know, starting in 1:06:40.040 --> 1:06:44.640 a weirder place in some ways, like starting more out 1:06:44.640 --> 1:06:50.720 of this very very weird like Christian moral panic shit. 1:06:51.360 --> 1:06:54.200 That's I guess if you want to look at how this, 1:06:55.080 --> 1:06:56.960 you know, plays out, like that's kind of where it 1:06:57.080 --> 1:06:59.480 is in like twenty eighteen, Right, this is the first 1:06:59.560 --> 1:07:03.160 bathroom in past By twenty eighteen it was Carolina. But 1:07:03.200 --> 1:07:06.680 there's you know, there's a huge backlash to it, and 1:07:06.800 --> 1:07:08.800 that's something that's I think very different than now, where 1:07:08.840 --> 1:07:10.880 like all of this city transhit is happening and everyone's 1:07:10.880 --> 1:07:13.520 just kind of going eh, So, do you want to 1:07:13.520 --> 1:07:18.880 talk about the second time he became Tarken a. 1:07:18.920 --> 1:07:23.480 Far right Yeah, I mean realistically, like this has been 1:07:23.560 --> 1:07:27.880 pretty constant throughout my life as a public artist. And 1:07:28.520 --> 1:07:31.000 there was another there was another track on that album 1:07:31.120 --> 1:07:34.280 that was also targeted. One call it titled My Little 1:07:34.400 --> 1:07:39.240 Problem Violet Door, that has some more provocative imagery than 1:07:39.320 --> 1:07:43.520 the track Phantom, has some nudity, and that was the 1:07:43.560 --> 1:07:48.840 collaboration between myself and a artist who is trans themselves, 1:07:49.240 --> 1:07:54.120 Kid out of Brazil, and that has again some body 1:07:54.200 --> 1:07:58.400 horror in it. There's a commentary about gender norms and 1:07:58.880 --> 1:08:03.320 plastic surgery and identity, but it wasn't explicitly political. Again, 1:08:03.440 --> 1:08:06.160 it was kind of a surreal body horror video. And 1:08:06.280 --> 1:08:09.600 that was Brigade reported not in twenty eighteen, but in 1:08:09.760 --> 1:08:16.040 twenty nineteen and actually taken down from YouTube and then reinstated. 1:08:17.200 --> 1:08:21.000 And that video is notable because as a result of 1:08:21.080 --> 1:08:24.040 what's going on today, YouTube took that down despite it 1:08:24.120 --> 1:08:28.320 being up for five years without a problem that you know, 1:08:28.360 --> 1:08:31.920 I'd had tens of thousands of views and now it's gone. 1:08:32.720 --> 1:08:34.920 So that was the second time. 1:08:35.720 --> 1:08:38.960 Yeah, and that one I think is interesting to in 1:08:39.080 --> 1:08:41.880 the sense of like that one's like a lot more, 1:08:43.360 --> 1:08:45.479 it's more overtly trans and it's also I think the 1:08:45.600 --> 1:08:49.479 more trands you are, the more the more like very 1:08:49.600 --> 1:08:52.720 obviously trans it is. And this is I guess something 1:08:52.760 --> 1:08:57.920 that's very common among trans artists is this kind of 1:08:58.080 --> 1:09:01.080 like art that's an exploration of sort of body horror it. 1:09:01.720 --> 1:09:05.479 You know, I mean, I'm not going to project onto it. 1:09:05.560 --> 1:09:07.840 I don't know if this is ucifically are doing, but like, 1:09:07.920 --> 1:09:09.920 you know, there's a lot of it that's body horror 1:09:09.960 --> 1:09:13.400 as this sort of metaphor for dysphoria, and like it's 1:09:13.439 --> 1:09:15.240 this way of sort of thinking about the things that 1:09:15.320 --> 1:09:17.040 are happening to your body, things that have been done 1:09:17.080 --> 1:09:19.000 to your body, and the things that you're doing back 1:09:19.400 --> 1:09:19.680 to it. 1:09:20.280 --> 1:09:22.240 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 1:09:22.720 --> 1:09:25.360 You know, I didn't really think too much about the 1:09:25.479 --> 1:09:29.639 concepts in that direction when I made it or when 1:09:30.160 --> 1:09:33.400 or and I okay didn't either at that time. However, 1:09:34.120 --> 1:09:37.000 the truth is, for much of my young life, I 1:09:37.080 --> 1:09:40.040 felt out of body and I wanted my flesh to 1:09:40.160 --> 1:09:44.800 match my personal vision of myself and my identity. And 1:09:44.920 --> 1:09:48.320 that was something I struggled with for quite a long time. 1:09:48.640 --> 1:09:49.280 When I was young. 1:09:49.360 --> 1:09:53.320 I didn't have access to the information and communities that 1:09:53.400 --> 1:09:56.519 are out there now that sup portraans people. Yeah, and 1:09:57.120 --> 1:10:02.160 I have had some gender confirming procedures done, but not 1:10:02.320 --> 1:10:04.080 as many as I think I would have when I 1:10:04.200 --> 1:10:09.519 was younger. I did feel existential discordance, and I don't 1:10:09.520 --> 1:10:11.160 know if that's a word, but if it's not, I'm 1:10:11.200 --> 1:10:14.880 going to coin it because pretty sure I didn't. I 1:10:14.920 --> 1:10:20.519 didn't feel feel in concordance with my flesh, and so 1:10:21.120 --> 1:10:25.280 you know, I came to experiment what the boundaries were 1:10:25.600 --> 1:10:29.439 of of my fleshy identity in my existence in my art. 1:10:30.000 --> 1:10:32.080 Yeah, And I think there's something about the way that 1:10:32.160 --> 1:10:33.600 your art works and the way that a lot of 1:10:33.720 --> 1:10:35.920 Curtis are where there's you know, and this isn't to 1:10:35.960 --> 1:10:38.080 say that all currotas like this, but there's definitely like 1:10:38.680 --> 1:10:39.400 an edge to it. 1:10:39.479 --> 1:10:40.200 There's stuff going on. 1:10:40.280 --> 1:10:43.799 There's body horror things happening, There's like eighties aesthetic stuff, 1:10:44.000 --> 1:10:47.439 and I think it conflicts with this kind of weird 1:10:47.920 --> 1:10:52.200 concaid everything is like happy and cozy, sort of kitch 1:10:52.320 --> 1:10:54.240 aesthetic thing that a lot of like this kind of 1:10:54.280 --> 1:10:56.800 fascism is really into. They use the kind of a 1:10:56.920 --> 1:11:00.200 kind of aesthetic sensibility as as a weapon to go 1:11:00.280 --> 1:11:04.080 after stuff that they opposed for more oftly political reasons 1:11:04.120 --> 1:11:06.800 they can do this kind of like hey, look at 1:11:06.800 --> 1:11:10.439 this disgusting thing, et cetera, et cetera kind of attack 1:11:10.800 --> 1:11:13.400 on queer art as a result of this kind of 1:11:13.439 --> 1:11:16.560 like fascist kitsch aesthetic thing that's kind of like this this, 1:11:16.760 --> 1:11:19.719 you know, this sort of like cultural norm in our society. 1:11:19.760 --> 1:11:22.720 And I think I have I haven't one worked out 1:11:22.720 --> 1:11:24.400 the political inplication of this, but I think there's this 1:11:24.520 --> 1:11:28.520 kind of connection between their their weaponization of like revulsion 1:11:28.640 --> 1:11:32.920 and their weaponization of this reaction to like anything that's kind. 1:11:32.760 --> 1:11:35.639 Of like horror that they kind of like use as 1:11:35.680 --> 1:11:36.479 the political attack. 1:11:37.240 --> 1:11:40.599 Yeah, you know, I think gender is horrifying period. 1:11:40.920 --> 1:11:44.519 Yeah, not just for queer people, but also for CIS people, 1:11:44.800 --> 1:11:48.080 Like I'm gonna defend CIS people here for a second. 1:11:48.640 --> 1:11:52.480 So SIS people struggle with gender dysphoria. 1:11:53.120 --> 1:11:55.960 I think maybe I would say every bit as much 1:11:56.000 --> 1:11:58.760 as trans people, but they sure fucking struggle with that. 1:11:59.040 --> 1:11:59.200 Yeah. 1:11:59.240 --> 1:12:02.320 For instance, an example I will give is facial hair. 1:12:02.880 --> 1:12:06.160 Lots of people that were assigned male at birth, they 1:12:06.280 --> 1:12:08.960 fret and earn worry over their facial hair. 1:12:09.240 --> 1:12:12.000 Is it too much? Is it too little? 1:12:12.400 --> 1:12:14.600 Then people that are signed female at birth, you know, 1:12:14.680 --> 1:12:17.760 if they have facial hair, you know, they thread over it. 1:12:17.920 --> 1:12:19.400 You know, well, people see it. Do I have to 1:12:19.439 --> 1:12:21.880 bleach it? Do I have to pluck it? People fret 1:12:21.960 --> 1:12:25.559 over like they're freaking jaw lines. Like, you know, if 1:12:25.600 --> 1:12:28.439 you search online like masculine jawline, how do I get? 1:12:28.760 --> 1:12:32.200 There's a huge community out there of assigned male at 1:12:32.280 --> 1:12:34.679 birth SYS men that are trying to get more defined 1:12:34.720 --> 1:12:37.920 jaw lines because they feel that their genetics are presenting 1:12:38.000 --> 1:12:42.320 them as a non optimal male quote unquote, and of course, 1:12:42.400 --> 1:12:45.360 same thing for quote unquote females, like do I have 1:12:45.479 --> 1:12:47.000 the female feminine bodies? 1:12:47.560 --> 1:12:49.600 Is it curvy enough in the right way? Is my 1:12:49.720 --> 1:12:53.400 waist slim enough? You know? Is am I just brick shaped? 1:12:54.000 --> 1:12:57.040 And then all the industries around that, and that I 1:12:57.120 --> 1:13:01.000 think is horrifying, and everyone goes through the struggles with it, 1:13:01.080 --> 1:13:04.400 and very few people are lucky enough to embody the 1:13:05.439 --> 1:13:08.880 ideals of gender that we thrust upon ourselves. 1:13:09.479 --> 1:13:11.320 And to me, that is a tragedy. 1:13:11.840 --> 1:13:13.880 Yeah, And I think that sort of like fear and 1:13:13.960 --> 1:13:16.479 that sort of like grinding experience of being forced to 1:13:16.840 --> 1:13:20.000 like perform a gender in a certain way. Well, okay, 1:13:20.000 --> 1:13:22.120 I'm not going to say perform because the Butler scholars 1:13:22.160 --> 1:13:23.160 are going to get extremely. 1:13:22.960 --> 1:13:23.280 Mad at me. 1:13:23.560 --> 1:13:24.600 But the. 1:13:26.320 --> 1:13:27.680 Way in which are forced to sort of live up 1:13:27.680 --> 1:13:30.439 to these standards that are sort of nonsense. I think 1:13:31.560 --> 1:13:33.599 it gets to this thing where you know, you could 1:13:33.640 --> 1:13:35.760 either sort of like muddle through it and try to 1:13:35.840 --> 1:13:38.720 ignore the distance as much as you can. You can 1:13:39.040 --> 1:13:42.320 attempt to fight it, or you can get extremely bad 1:13:42.360 --> 1:13:44.439 at everyone else is trying to do something about it, 1:13:44.760 --> 1:13:48.120 and I think we're seeing an explosion of the last option. Yeah, 1:13:48.640 --> 1:13:51.200 Unfortunately we need to go to ads, which is another 1:13:51.280 --> 1:13:53.880 thing that drives a whole bunch of this. Luckily, these 1:13:53.920 --> 1:13:57.599 are audio ads, so hopefully they're not driving beauty standards. 1:13:57.720 --> 1:14:01.280 But you know who knows people are wizards. Sty'll find 1:14:01.320 --> 1:14:03.439 a way brought to you by Mabeline. 1:14:14.040 --> 1:14:15.559 And we are back. 1:14:15.680 --> 1:14:17.679 I mean, I guess the way should stay. Highway patrol 1:14:17.840 --> 1:14:21.000 does for skinder dorms on people. 1:14:21.360 --> 1:14:27.320 Oh, they sure do MAKEI another example of hideous gender 1:14:27.360 --> 1:14:27.840 and arms. 1:14:28.160 --> 1:14:28.360 Yeah. 1:14:28.600 --> 1:14:32.120 So you listener, you're hearing me right, and you're hearing 1:14:32.160 --> 1:14:36.439 my voice. And this is another thing that all people 1:14:36.520 --> 1:14:40.040 fret about. It's not trust trans people. Lots of a fabs. 1:14:40.320 --> 1:14:42.759 I know, I'm just gonna say a fab and amap Okay, 1:14:43.280 --> 1:14:45.720 lots of a fabs, I know. You know, they have 1:14:45.840 --> 1:14:49.040 pretty darned deep voices naturally, and they I've talked with 1:14:49.080 --> 1:14:51.320 them privately and they say that they worry about how 1:14:51.400 --> 1:14:54.439 husky their voice is when they just relax. And then 1:14:54.600 --> 1:14:57.800 same thing for amaps, they talk about worrying if their 1:14:57.880 --> 1:15:02.320 voice is squeaky and thinner. I'm talk like a freaking 1:15:02.400 --> 1:15:07.160 wrestler from w WE, you know, like people people like that. 1:15:07.960 --> 1:15:09.479 People struggle with that too. 1:15:09.800 --> 1:15:13.040 Just so yeah, just something as simple as our appearance 1:15:13.080 --> 1:15:18.320 and our voice, you know, we're just torturing ourselves. And ultimately, 1:15:18.400 --> 1:15:21.719 I gotta say Nia, you know, I'm I'm a trans woman. However, 1:15:21.960 --> 1:15:25.280 ultimately I'm a gender abolitionist because this shit sucks. 1:15:26.080 --> 1:15:29.320 Yeah, it's it's not it's not great. It's not a 1:15:29.439 --> 1:15:30.559 good time for any way. 1:15:30.600 --> 1:15:35.360 It fauld Yeah, speaking of bad times, this isn't even 1:15:35.360 --> 1:15:37.240 an activate. I just do this now, which really bad. 1:15:37.280 --> 1:15:39.000 I do it to people my daily life. They're like, 1:15:39.080 --> 1:15:41.040 why are you anpivoting me? And I'm like, oh God, 1:15:42.960 --> 1:15:46.240 but yeah, I guess God. This and the sort of 1:15:46.360 --> 1:15:51.000 racialization aspect, and I don't know this is the aspect 1:15:51.040 --> 1:15:55.360 of zones of gender performance. God damn, I keep saying 1:15:55.400 --> 1:15:58.000 performance that I literally mean that you were performing it, 1:15:58.080 --> 1:16:01.559 as in you were acting and not the butler thing 1:16:01.680 --> 1:16:03.120 of your perform to get to make it real. 1:16:03.520 --> 1:16:04.760 Please don't yell at me. 1:16:04.800 --> 1:16:05.720 Of the comments I had. 1:16:06.360 --> 1:16:10.000 I had the guy who wrote a writer on the 1:16:10.080 --> 1:16:13.760 Big Bang Theory yelled at me specifically about that on Twitter. 1:16:13.840 --> 1:16:14.400 What times. 1:16:16.120 --> 1:16:17.000 It's really okay. 1:16:17.080 --> 1:16:20.320 Sorry, I about to rail this enough, partially because this 1:16:20.520 --> 1:16:25.800 next part is really depressing. But so a while back 1:16:26.160 --> 1:16:29.080 on this show, my my co host Garrison, who is 1:16:29.800 --> 1:16:32.800 I don't know, probably having an absolutely terrible time at 1:16:32.840 --> 1:16:36.320 the Consumer Electronics Show right now, covered a specific far 1:16:36.439 --> 1:16:39.200 right panic that became don as the we spat contraversia. 1:16:39.360 --> 1:16:41.519 Do you want to talk about how the right stuck 1:16:41.600 --> 1:16:44.120 you into that shit, because Jesus Christ. 1:16:44.800 --> 1:16:45.000 Yeah. 1:16:45.160 --> 1:16:47.280 So you know, in twenty eighteen, as I said, I 1:16:47.360 --> 1:16:49.160 put out this album, and then I put out another, 1:16:49.320 --> 1:16:52.519 and I start I was touring the country and Canada 1:16:52.640 --> 1:16:56.360 and stuff and doing shows pretty much constantly, and then 1:16:56.800 --> 1:17:01.120 twenty happened and I became involved in the George Floyd 1:17:01.439 --> 1:17:07.120 uprising and the Black Lives Matter marches and protesting, and 1:17:07.439 --> 1:17:12.240 so I began to live stream those protests and marches 1:17:12.720 --> 1:17:16.160 with the specific intent of contextualizing what the heck was 1:17:16.240 --> 1:17:19.920 going on on the streets to people watching, because a 1:17:19.960 --> 1:17:23.200 lot of people, you know, regardless of their politics, did 1:17:23.280 --> 1:17:26.479 not understand what the issues were. And the thing is, 1:17:26.560 --> 1:17:30.519 in LA there were a lot of continual police murders 1:17:30.640 --> 1:17:33.640 even through the riots. And by police murders, I mean 1:17:33.680 --> 1:17:37.160 the cops shooting on armed black people in the back 1:17:37.280 --> 1:17:41.120 as they were running away, or executions are shooting them 1:17:41.160 --> 1:17:44.720 in the car, that type of thing. And so I 1:17:44.840 --> 1:17:46.920 was explaining that to the viewers, like, this is why 1:17:47.000 --> 1:17:49.400 people are in the streets, this is a specific issue, 1:17:49.680 --> 1:17:52.320 these are the laws surrounding it, and why these actions 1:17:52.400 --> 1:17:56.519 by the police are not just horrifying, they're also illegal. 1:17:57.479 --> 1:17:59.679 And so I was doing that and I became pretty 1:17:59.760 --> 1:18:04.120 darn visible and popular, like I was maybe one of 1:18:04.200 --> 1:18:11.080 the top five best known activist or racial justice voices. 1:18:12.000 --> 1:18:15.599 And I was targeted by a right wing activist who 1:18:15.800 --> 1:18:20.439 was known for blocking the vaccination clinics at Dodger Stadium 1:18:21.040 --> 1:18:25.720 specifically because I was visible, because I was trans, and 1:18:25.880 --> 1:18:29.080 so she went for me and posted and said that 1:18:29.240 --> 1:18:32.320 I was a transgender individual who was in the women's 1:18:32.320 --> 1:18:36.240 spa of we Spa and I was sexually harassing people, 1:18:36.720 --> 1:18:40.200 and that went viral on social media. It was covered 1:18:40.240 --> 1:18:42.960 on Fox News for a week. I was getting constant 1:18:43.120 --> 1:18:48.200 death threats, and you know, I was docksed. It was 1:18:48.280 --> 1:18:52.600 pretty terrible, especially because I was not that person in 1:18:52.720 --> 1:18:55.479 the spa and I was only best picked up because 1:18:55.600 --> 1:18:59.200 I was picked up for my visibility. My response to 1:18:59.280 --> 1:19:02.000 that was no, I didn't immediately say yeah, it wasn't 1:19:02.040 --> 1:19:03.800 mean it wasn't me, leave me alone, Leave me alone. 1:19:04.400 --> 1:19:08.519 I didn't do that because I knew that if I 1:19:08.640 --> 1:19:10.840 said that, then they would just pick and attack some 1:19:10.920 --> 1:19:15.200 other trans person. Yeah, and you know, I know that 1:19:15.520 --> 1:19:18.400 like the ship that the that the right wing machine 1:19:19.520 --> 1:19:22.000 and acts, if it happens to one of us, it 1:19:22.120 --> 1:19:24.120 can happen to all that's end, it likely will. 1:19:24.720 --> 1:19:26.360 Yeah, And I mean, I think the thing that it 1:19:26.439 --> 1:19:28.720 reminds me the most something we've also covered on the 1:19:29.240 --> 1:19:31.640 This is one of the problems with talking about this. 1:19:31.760 --> 1:19:34.280 It's like doing this for so long that like there's 1:19:34.400 --> 1:19:36.040 very few things that I can say that I can't 1:19:36.120 --> 1:19:37.760 be Like I've said this on the show before. But 1:19:37.880 --> 1:19:39.760 we spent a lot of time, typically Garrison, I spend 1:19:39.760 --> 1:19:42.160 a lot of time covering the way that every time 1:19:42.200 --> 1:19:44.800 there's a mass shooter, the right immediately just like picks 1:19:44.800 --> 1:19:47.639 a random transperson and goes, it was this person. Yeah, 1:19:48.000 --> 1:19:50.240 and this reminds me a lot of the same thing, 1:19:50.240 --> 1:19:53.439 although this isn't more targeted, Like we've invented a fake 1:19:53.520 --> 1:19:56.439 controversy about a trans person and then we're going to 1:19:56.960 --> 1:20:00.200 like also just pick a random famous rand well not 1:20:00.240 --> 1:20:02.720 your favous, but like a random trans person that we 1:20:02.880 --> 1:20:03.840 know about and don't like. 1:20:04.520 --> 1:20:09.360 It's my understanding that this twenty twenty one we saw 1:20:09.439 --> 1:20:13.080 a controversy that I was targeted for became something of 1:20:13.880 --> 1:20:15.040 a right wing playbook. 1:20:15.160 --> 1:20:15.320 Yep. 1:20:15.400 --> 1:20:17.880 It was after that that they started saying, oh, this 1:20:18.000 --> 1:20:21.600 and that person's trans, and before that they didn't have 1:20:21.800 --> 1:20:25.200 a real moral panic around trans people unless you look 1:20:25.200 --> 1:20:28.639 all the way back to the North Carolina South Carolina 1:20:28.680 --> 1:20:29.200 bathroom man. 1:20:30.600 --> 1:20:32.280 Yeah, I mean I think I think there's an interesting 1:20:32.320 --> 1:20:37.320 intermediary thing too. Where so my friend Vicky ashterwhile who 1:20:38.040 --> 1:20:41.679 depending on when this episode comes out, you'll be hearing 1:20:41.720 --> 1:20:45.240 from either right before this episode or right after. I 1:20:45.360 --> 1:20:47.800 had another version of this where she wrote a book 1:20:47.800 --> 1:20:50.400 called In Defensive Looting. It came out in twenty twenty 1:20:50.520 --> 1:20:54.120 and just for like three months became all the rest 1:20:54.160 --> 1:20:57.000 of it. Really two months, like became the like the 1:20:57.120 --> 1:21:00.599 giant figure with which everyone who didn't like the uprising 1:21:00.880 --> 1:21:02.519 was just like taking it out on, so like like 1:21:02.600 --> 1:21:06.000 sitting in Congress, people were like denouncing this book that 1:21:06.120 --> 1:21:09.519 you wrote. Every base re media outlet like specifically had 1:21:09.560 --> 1:21:12.200 their editorial people going like, this book is evil. 1:21:12.960 --> 1:21:13.759 Vicky's evil. 1:21:14.520 --> 1:21:16.240 And I think that was also like this moment of 1:21:16.479 --> 1:21:19.479 deep connection between the backlash of the uprisings and the 1:21:19.479 --> 1:21:22.439 anti trans uprisings, because the people who you know are 1:21:22.520 --> 1:21:28.480 trying to maintain a white supremacist gender system like intimately themselves, 1:21:29.160 --> 1:21:31.200 even if they don't understand it on a theoretical level, 1:21:31.320 --> 1:21:34.000 understand that they're that these things are preserving the same 1:21:34.479 --> 1:21:37.720 systems of violence, and so they picked us as sort 1:21:37.760 --> 1:21:40.840 of like the wedge point to to break this thing apart. 1:21:40.920 --> 1:21:44.479 And I think with Vicky they hadn't really figured out 1:21:44.600 --> 1:21:48.080 how to do it. And I think it was like 1:21:48.160 --> 1:21:50.880 specifically your case, the the we spaw like with you 1:21:51.000 --> 1:21:52.519 being put in as the figure of the we spause. 1:21:52.640 --> 1:21:55.400 This is where they like actually really figured out how 1:21:55.439 --> 1:21:59.160 to do the whole thing, And yeah, there's just something 1:21:59.240 --> 1:22:01.680 really bleak up with how effective it was and the 1:22:01.760 --> 1:22:04.680 fact that it's like these are just people I don't know, 1:22:04.760 --> 1:22:06.720 like this isn't the thing that's happening to sort of 1:22:06.840 --> 1:22:09.360 like astrak figures. It's just like, yeah, people I'm having 1:22:09.439 --> 1:22:13.320 conversations with are how they. 1:22:13.320 --> 1:22:15.800 Did this Just I don't know. 1:22:16.760 --> 1:22:19.040 I wish I had more and ELS's but yeah, I 1:22:19.120 --> 1:22:24.280 think the trends people like to to greater America, to most, 1:22:24.720 --> 1:22:28.840 to a lot of America, I'll say, are are sensational. 1:22:29.479 --> 1:22:31.840 You know, people people imagine. 1:22:32.000 --> 1:22:36.040 Chicks with dicks and dudes with dudes without dicks, and 1:22:37.160 --> 1:22:40.160 so I think that's really exciting for a lot of people, for. 1:22:40.280 --> 1:22:43.360 Better or for worse. I think for for worse. 1:22:43.720 --> 1:22:47.800 But yeah, I think that's just like people and their bodies, right, Like, 1:22:48.120 --> 1:22:50.280 you know, I guess some people walk around think all 1:22:50.360 --> 1:22:52.040 the time about other people's crotches. 1:22:53.520 --> 1:22:57.439 I'm not going to say that's a bad thing. Crush 1:22:57.520 --> 1:22:58.639 the first of your scene. 1:23:00.400 --> 1:23:03.160 Okay, you know, But on the other hand, right, there's 1:23:03.200 --> 1:23:06.120 this there's this aspect of which like you know, there's 1:23:06.160 --> 1:23:09.000 a serisacialism, but then there's also the experience of being 1:23:09.040 --> 1:23:11.360 a trans person is like I too am trying to 1:23:11.400 --> 1:23:14.360 find a way to not pay rent, Like that's like, 1:23:14.960 --> 1:23:15.320 I don't know. 1:23:16.400 --> 1:23:20.040 Yeah, so back to back to Wei SPA. Yeah, that 1:23:20.160 --> 1:23:22.640 was a pretty terrible experience for me, and I'm not 1:23:22.720 --> 1:23:23.560 going to lie about it. 1:23:23.800 --> 1:23:23.960 You know. 1:23:24.080 --> 1:23:28.360 I I'm glad that I stood up for for myself. 1:23:28.439 --> 1:23:30.479 I'm glad I stood up for trans people that I 1:23:30.560 --> 1:23:34.879 didn't pass the buck. It was also really difficult and traumatic, 1:23:35.360 --> 1:23:38.879 and I didn't appreciate the death threats. I didn't appreciate 1:23:39.040 --> 1:23:42.640 being docs and you know, people have come after me 1:23:43.000 --> 1:23:47.080 my my whole life, like I present, I think just 1:23:47.280 --> 1:23:51.439 naturally physically, like I present as being gender queer, like 1:23:51.600 --> 1:23:55.040 I've been pretty like fearing like looking fem my entire life. 1:23:55.360 --> 1:23:58.400 That had nothing to do with my internal identity. I've 1:23:58.439 --> 1:24:03.200 been weird my entire life. I've perpetually been curious and 1:24:03.880 --> 1:24:07.280 provocative and interested in things that were provocative, and so 1:24:08.000 --> 1:24:11.400 I've been harassed my whole life. However, UNTI was SPA 1:24:11.840 --> 1:24:15.880 and to experience strangers by the hundreds saying that they're 1:24:15.920 --> 1:24:19.240 gonna hunt me down, and fucking shoot me. Yeah, I 1:24:19.360 --> 1:24:21.360 never know if someone will recognize me when I'm out 1:24:21.479 --> 1:24:23.640 and be like, hey buddy. 1:24:23.400 --> 1:24:23.800 I know you. 1:24:24.640 --> 1:24:26.840 Yeah, And it's one of these things where like the 1:24:27.200 --> 1:24:30.320 more of a target on you, the more likely it 1:24:30.439 --> 1:24:32.280 is to happen. And even people who don't have targets 1:24:32.320 --> 1:24:34.640 on them, like I know people you know who've never 1:24:34.720 --> 1:24:37.040 experienced anything like this that have still just like had 1:24:37.120 --> 1:24:39.880 attacks on them, And it's fucking terrifying. 1:24:40.040 --> 1:24:41.880 It is an absolutely terrible. 1:24:42.600 --> 1:24:44.560 Way to have to live in, a terrible sort of 1:24:45.160 --> 1:24:48.480 thing to have to experience, especially is it's just intensifying. 1:24:49.120 --> 1:24:51.040 So yeah, that was That was twenty twenty one, and 1:24:51.120 --> 1:24:51.720 that changed me. 1:24:52.400 --> 1:24:55.400 That experience of being targeted and just picked on out 1:24:55.439 --> 1:24:58.439 of the freaking blue that changed me as an artist. 1:24:59.160 --> 1:25:02.560 And at the same time it also firmly established me 1:25:02.800 --> 1:25:06.479 as a sort of celebrity. And I want to speak 1:25:06.520 --> 1:25:10.840 to that because there's different tiers of celebrity, you know. 1:25:11.000 --> 1:25:17.320 At that yes, at the top, there's the tier that's 1:25:17.400 --> 1:25:20.519 known as I get a Christmas card from Tom Cruise 1:25:20.760 --> 1:25:25.200 every year, and that's an actual thing, and that's the 1:25:25.280 --> 1:25:27.760 A List. And you know you're on the A List 1:25:27.800 --> 1:25:31.600 because Tom cruise since your Christmas card. And at the 1:25:31.600 --> 1:25:35.639 bottom is me who's been in mass media many times 1:25:35.720 --> 1:25:37.759 now but has none of the benefits. 1:25:37.920 --> 1:25:38.120 Yeah. 1:25:38.680 --> 1:25:41.719 You know, I make very little money as an artist, 1:25:42.360 --> 1:25:45.840 and I don't have an entourage. I can tour and 1:25:45.920 --> 1:25:48.920 I play play some shows, and you know, some of 1:25:48.960 --> 1:25:51.559 them are sold out. I'm playing a show in LA 1:25:51.760 --> 1:25:54.360 that's sold out, but I'm not playing large venues. No, 1:25:54.520 --> 1:25:57.240 I maybe play like you know, three hundred, five hundred 1:25:57.280 --> 1:26:00.240 capacity tops, and most of the places I play like 1:26:00.360 --> 1:26:02.760 small colabs that one hundred and fifty or so. Yeah, 1:26:02.920 --> 1:26:07.120 And so I don't I don't have the protection that 1:26:07.800 --> 1:26:12.360 most celebrities inherently have. I don't have book deals. I 1:26:12.439 --> 1:26:15.439 don't have movie deals. I don't even have an asia. 1:26:15.920 --> 1:26:17.280 I don't even have a record label. 1:26:18.120 --> 1:26:18.360 Yeah. 1:26:19.200 --> 1:26:23.080 So I'm the freaking D tier. I'm the D tier, 1:26:24.360 --> 1:26:25.360 and they're coming after me. 1:26:26.600 --> 1:26:26.840 Yeah. 1:26:26.920 --> 1:26:28.320 And it's I mean, and that's the thing about the 1:26:28.360 --> 1:26:31.360 sort of like this status of like niche D tier 1:26:31.400 --> 1:26:34.200 internet micro celebrity is like I don't like I feel 1:26:34.200 --> 1:26:36.479 like I got the best possible version of it, where 1:26:36.520 --> 1:26:40.160 like I got a job that pays slightly. I think 1:26:40.200 --> 1:26:42.880 I might have hit no I'm still I'm still below 1:26:43.000 --> 1:26:45.040 the median salary of assists man in the. 1:26:45.120 --> 1:26:46.800 US, but I'm approaching it. 1:26:47.240 --> 1:26:50.799 We're getting closer every year, every union fight, we approach 1:26:51.320 --> 1:26:55.240 median cis man salary. But like, yeah, the situation I 1:26:55.320 --> 1:26:57.840 got is effectively the equivalent of winning the trans lottery, right, 1:26:58.120 --> 1:27:00.840 Like this is about the best you could possibly hope 1:27:00.880 --> 1:27:03.760 for if you're a transperson and you get famous, Like yeah, 1:27:04.000 --> 1:27:05.920 I mean, like I get that threats too, right, Like 1:27:06.000 --> 1:27:10.160 nothing anywhere near the scale that you get, And mostly 1:27:10.240 --> 1:27:14.160 what happens is like I mean, like single digit numbers 1:27:14.400 --> 1:27:18.439 of trans people in the US have the kind of 1:27:18.560 --> 1:27:22.760 protection that actual celebrity gives you and everyone else. Celebrity 1:27:22.920 --> 1:27:25.400 is just another It's just a giant target painted on you. 1:27:26.240 --> 1:27:28.840 And yes, you have none of the benefits and all 1:27:28.920 --> 1:27:31.720 of the sort of Hey, here is one hundred and 1:27:31.760 --> 1:27:35.000 fifty million people who absolutely hate you and who've been 1:27:35.040 --> 1:27:36.960 primed and targeted like specifically at you. 1:27:38.120 --> 1:27:41.880 Yeah, It's something that I wonder about, Like why why 1:27:41.920 --> 1:27:44.599 would they do something like this? Why would Fox News 1:27:44.680 --> 1:27:47.160 we talk about me? Why would the founder of the 1:27:47.280 --> 1:27:52.160 Proud Boys, Gavin mccinnis that old video about me bad 1:27:52.200 --> 1:27:54.559 Boys is a terrorist group if you don't now listener 1:27:54.800 --> 1:27:58.360 to ever recognize as a terrorist group by Canada, not here, 1:27:58.479 --> 1:27:59.800 because like we're just cool with that. 1:28:00.080 --> 1:28:05.640 Should hear? They're white supremacist terrorist group? So why me? 1:28:06.439 --> 1:28:09.960 Why why would a congress person come after me? 1:28:10.600 --> 1:28:16.559 And my own hypothesis is that they punched down because 1:28:17.040 --> 1:28:22.120 they secretly believe that they themselves are weak and attacking me, 1:28:22.439 --> 1:28:25.720 attacking people like me, is a fight that they can win. 1:28:27.080 --> 1:28:30.600 And my view is that it's not a fight that 1:28:30.680 --> 1:28:34.519 they can win because they've already lost. They're trying to 1:28:34.560 --> 1:28:38.920 get power in small, small ways and false ways, in 1:28:39.000 --> 1:28:41.599 my opinion, and they're trying to get money. First of all, 1:28:41.640 --> 1:28:44.320 they want money, you know, they want their views, they 1:28:44.360 --> 1:28:48.240 want their donations, and that's the entire top of the 1:28:48.280 --> 1:28:52.679 pyramid for them and for me though, I'm a fucking artist, 1:28:53.080 --> 1:28:57.960 and power is something that I've always been developing because 1:28:58.000 --> 1:29:02.040 I've sought to know myself. I've sought to understand who 1:29:02.120 --> 1:29:06.200 I am and why that extends to myself as a 1:29:06.240 --> 1:29:08.760 queer person. To come to understand myself who I am 1:29:08.800 --> 1:29:11.680 as a queer person, that's not something they'll ever have. 1:29:12.240 --> 1:29:16.000 So I've read a fucking won. And same with all 1:29:16.080 --> 1:29:18.640 the other queer people that are under attack, all you 1:29:18.720 --> 1:29:23.959 other DCER queer celebrities out there, we fucking won. 1:29:25.720 --> 1:29:26.400 Hopefully well. 1:29:26.479 --> 1:29:28.600 And I think part of this is also like the 1:29:28.680 --> 1:29:30.920 reason this campaign is happening is because they're trying to 1:29:30.960 --> 1:29:35.160 stop the tide from coming in. And they saw how 1:29:35.400 --> 1:29:38.439 far in the tide had already come, and now they're 1:29:38.520 --> 1:29:44.080 trying to like dam off the tide. And you know, like, 1:29:44.400 --> 1:29:47.840 probably it's not going to work. But the only way 1:29:47.880 --> 1:29:50.760 that it can is if everyone just like sits here 1:29:50.920 --> 1:29:53.599 does nothing and let's to just keep building and building 1:29:53.680 --> 1:29:56.680 and building more walls. It's something that is within our 1:29:56.760 --> 1:30:00.400 power to resist. We just have to actually do it, right. 1:30:00.479 --> 1:30:02.400 You have to actually organize, You have to talk to 1:30:02.439 --> 1:30:04.120 the people around you, you have to go get them 1:30:04.160 --> 1:30:07.360 to do things to resist this. And if we do, yeah, well, 1:30:07.400 --> 1:30:09.559 like with the things that we've already won, the things 1:30:09.560 --> 1:30:11.200 that we are going to win are going to stick. 1:30:11.280 --> 1:30:13.679 But if not, like things are going to get really 1:30:13.840 --> 1:30:17.680 really bad really quickly. And yeah, and speaking of things 1:30:17.760 --> 1:30:21.599 getting very bad very quickly, I carre some more ats 1:30:22.000 --> 1:30:36.519 before we get back to these getting wars. We are back, Yeah, 1:30:37.040 --> 1:30:41.800 You've been specifically targeted by a sitting US Congresswoman, Nancy Mace, 1:30:41.960 --> 1:30:45.519 who is the person who actually I don't know if 1:30:45.520 --> 1:30:48.320 we talked about the bathroom stuff here yet, but she's 1:30:48.479 --> 1:30:51.120 the sort of person behind an attempt to get trans 1:30:51.160 --> 1:30:52.960 people to not be able to use the bathroom on 1:30:53.080 --> 1:30:57.679 Capitol Hill. She's become a leading anti trans figure in Congress. 1:30:57.760 --> 1:31:00.559 Literally every single thing that she tweets about is about 1:31:00.600 --> 1:31:03.439 trans women and how they should be put in men's jails, 1:31:03.760 --> 1:31:07.400 which is just an incredibly cynical ploy to make a 1:31:07.400 --> 1:31:11.000 bunch of people get horribly braved and killed, which is 1:31:11.760 --> 1:31:13.479 one of the predominant things that happens when we get 1:31:13.520 --> 1:31:16.960 put in ben's prisons. And she specifically came after years, 1:31:17.000 --> 1:31:19.560 you want to talk about how that happened and the 1:31:19.720 --> 1:31:24.120 latest sort of a congress woman tweets and a fucking 1:31:24.200 --> 1:31:26.200 social media company does their bidding. 1:31:27.000 --> 1:31:30.680 Yeah, so right at the end of twenty twenty four, 1:31:30.800 --> 1:31:36.720 I think it was on December twenty eighth, I was 1:31:37.040 --> 1:31:42.439 doxed by a right wing control nazi that has docked 1:31:43.520 --> 1:31:47.920 multiple friends of mine, the activist friends, artist friends, and 1:31:48.520 --> 1:31:53.640 they pointed out in a tweet how my art was 1:31:53.760 --> 1:31:57.719 on YouTube, specifically, my music videos were on YouTube calling 1:31:57.880 --> 1:32:01.360 for violence and how I was in evil trans person 1:32:02.280 --> 1:32:06.320 and they added like at symbol YouTube and said that 1:32:07.280 --> 1:32:09.599 these videos are in violation of your terms of service? 1:32:10.200 --> 1:32:11.400 Why are they still up? 1:32:11.880 --> 1:32:15.360 And Nancy May saw that because if you look at 1:32:15.439 --> 1:32:19.400 her Twitter, it's all just the stocks and trans people 1:32:19.720 --> 1:32:24.080 and perpetual like rage bait about the queer menace, the 1:32:24.200 --> 1:32:28.919 trans menace, and so she saw that retweeted and said, YouTube, 1:32:29.240 --> 1:32:32.360 this squarly violates your terms of service. Why haven't you 1:32:32.400 --> 1:32:36.559 done anything? And then immediately following that, my videos were 1:32:36.600 --> 1:32:39.799 taken down, the ones that were mentioned in these tweets. 1:32:40.600 --> 1:32:44.120 And as I said before, some one of these videos, 1:32:44.600 --> 1:32:46.840 what was that of my little problem that's been up 1:32:46.920 --> 1:32:48.880 for seven years? 1:32:49.520 --> 1:32:51.800 Yeah, for a long time. 1:32:52.360 --> 1:32:52.599 Yeah. 1:32:53.040 --> 1:32:58.519 And YouTube terms of service they're very clear, and I 1:32:58.640 --> 1:33:01.360 do my best to stay within YouTube terms of service 1:33:01.880 --> 1:33:03.559 so my work doesn't get taken down. 1:33:04.000 --> 1:33:11.000 And they state that stuff like violence, minimal nudity that is. 1:33:11.080 --> 1:33:13.920 Allowed within the context of art, within the context of 1:33:14.120 --> 1:33:18.840 music videos, and so my videos, you know, they weren't 1:33:18.920 --> 1:33:21.920 designed to this is from the terms of service. They 1:33:21.960 --> 1:33:26.720 weren't designed to sexually titillate or gratify. That's exactly what 1:33:26.840 --> 1:33:30.080 it says in the in the terms. Now they weren't 1:33:30.600 --> 1:33:34.960 recreations of real life violence, and they weren't real life violence, 1:33:35.240 --> 1:33:37.920 but they were still they were still removed at the 1:33:38.000 --> 1:33:42.559 behest at the easy click press of Nancy Mace. 1:33:43.360 --> 1:33:45.599 Yeah, And I think there's there's a couple of things 1:33:45.680 --> 1:33:47.880 going on here, one of which is, you know, so 1:33:48.040 --> 1:33:51.080 we've seen this with Facebook and the last I guess 1:33:51.120 --> 1:33:52.559 when this comes out will be like a week ago. 1:33:52.680 --> 1:33:55.800 But you know, Facebook has in stated policies that allow 1:33:55.920 --> 1:33:59.160 you to basically stay slurs against queer people, allowed you 1:33:59.240 --> 1:34:01.640 to call core people the illnesses and stuff like that 1:34:01.800 --> 1:34:04.479 that's very specifically you could only do to queer people. 1:34:04.520 --> 1:34:06.760 You can't do it to anyone else. And I think 1:34:06.800 --> 1:34:09.320 there's this sort of trend here of I don't know 1:34:09.479 --> 1:34:13.000 with Facebook. I wouldn't say that it's like compliance with 1:34:13.240 --> 1:34:15.400 the sort of new Trump regime, because like this is 1:34:15.479 --> 1:34:17.400 just your Facebook is right, like they did the Row 1:34:17.439 --> 1:34:20.320 Higg the genocide, like the genocide into Gray too, that 1:34:20.479 --> 1:34:23.120 was also a Facebook thing. So they've always just been 1:34:23.560 --> 1:34:26.280 evil and they have been sort of looking for the 1:34:26.360 --> 1:34:29.439 excuse that they needed to like drop the hammer on us. 1:34:29.600 --> 1:34:32.160 But I think YouTube, to some extent to what we're 1:34:32.200 --> 1:34:34.599 seeing right now is this kind of like mask coming 1:34:34.640 --> 1:34:38.400 off moment where people are realizing that with Trump and power, 1:34:38.479 --> 1:34:41.599 they can just drop the hammer on a queer artist 1:34:41.720 --> 1:34:46.120 because specifically like on a trans artist, because now they 1:34:46.240 --> 1:34:48.840 have this sort of like backing to do this stuff, 1:34:49.000 --> 1:34:51.960 and the right has you know, realized that they can 1:34:52.120 --> 1:34:54.280 feel like YouTube, take this video down, and they'll do it. 1:34:55.680 --> 1:35:01.280 And that's a really terrifying p residents in a lot 1:35:01.320 --> 1:35:03.719 of ways. And also it's very you know, I was like, yeah, obviously, 1:35:03.720 --> 1:35:05.439 because a point of a hypocrisy does nothing. But like, 1:35:06.080 --> 1:35:10.479 I'm trying to think of a more explicit demonstration of 1:35:10.600 --> 1:35:13.160 censorship than a member of the government says that something 1:35:13.200 --> 1:35:14.960 should be taken down and it's taken down. 1:35:15.360 --> 1:35:18.439 It's like, it's really so you. 1:35:18.479 --> 1:35:23.600 Know, it makes me kind of afraid, honestly, because you know, 1:35:23.760 --> 1:35:27.600 before I was a victim of a moral panic, and 1:35:27.840 --> 1:35:33.120 now my work is effectively being disappeared with little fanfare. 1:35:33.920 --> 1:35:37.200 So you know, what's what's going to happen next? What 1:35:37.360 --> 1:35:41.240 will we see just made invisible and unseen? And I 1:35:41.360 --> 1:35:43.599 know that in this country, I have freedom of speech, 1:35:44.120 --> 1:35:46.640 but that's that's really bullshit. We all know that, Like, 1:35:46.720 --> 1:35:48.840 I'm not going to reach many people if I stand 1:35:48.920 --> 1:35:51.400 on a street corner at the park and yell at people. 1:35:51.960 --> 1:35:55.040 What matters nowadays is the freedom of reach that. 1:35:55.200 --> 1:35:59.160 These social media platforms control, that are themselves controlled now 1:35:59.280 --> 1:36:03.839 by the Republican Party. And what happens when our freedom 1:36:03.880 --> 1:36:08.080 of reach is annihilated and then suddenly trans people are 1:36:08.320 --> 1:36:09.560 actually invisible. 1:36:10.880 --> 1:36:13.960 We're very close to that. I think Fancy proved that. 1:36:15.000 --> 1:36:18.479 Yeah, and disappearing people from the mainstream is the first 1:36:18.520 --> 1:36:20.599 step for how you destroy a people. 1:36:20.920 --> 1:36:21.160 Yeah. 1:36:21.439 --> 1:36:27.639 Art art is perhaps the loudest way a person can speak, 1:36:28.560 --> 1:36:33.400 and I know that's why she came after my art. 1:36:33.680 --> 1:36:36.479 There's something just incredibly galling about watching this whole thing happen. 1:36:36.560 --> 1:36:38.360 And then like the next tweet is again a sitting 1:36:38.400 --> 1:36:40.519 member of the US government saying that trans women should 1:36:40.520 --> 1:36:42.840 be put in men's prisons, and it's like, Okay, one 1:36:42.880 --> 1:36:45.960 of these is considered violence fight sort of the media machine. 1:36:46.080 --> 1:36:46.840 One of them isn't. 1:36:47.320 --> 1:36:50.559 Yeah, does she even actually do work for the people 1:36:50.680 --> 1:36:54.800 of South Carolina? Like I saw, all she does is 1:36:55.040 --> 1:36:58.000 just like start shit with trans people, like, she says, 1:36:58.080 --> 1:37:01.599 another lousy politician trying to be an entertainer. And she's 1:37:01.640 --> 1:37:05.560 just a knockoff product of a bootleg Trump, that's what 1:37:05.680 --> 1:37:08.840 she is. And she's not even good at her fucking politics. 1:37:08.960 --> 1:37:13.160 Like she's tried to get this bathroom band for disallowing 1:37:13.720 --> 1:37:16.360 trans people to use a bathroom methaiost Capital and her 1:37:16.439 --> 1:37:20.680 own freaking party kicked the bill out of the out 1:37:20.680 --> 1:37:23.840 of the bylaws for this year, so she couldn't even 1:37:23.880 --> 1:37:26.960 get that. And yeah, so I guess she thinks you 1:37:27.040 --> 1:37:31.040 can get a get a win by harassing me, harassing 1:37:31.080 --> 1:37:33.720 my art. Yeah, try to get people to come after me. 1:37:34.360 --> 1:37:37.120 You know, these people are not as powerful as they 1:37:37.200 --> 1:37:39.280 want you to believe. Right, A lot of their stuff 1:37:39.400 --> 1:37:43.360 just fails. But they will only fail if people are 1:37:43.400 --> 1:37:45.680 willing to resist and people are willing to stop them. 1:37:46.439 --> 1:37:48.760 And that's the thing that's needed in this moment. Is 1:37:49.000 --> 1:37:53.400 organization is you know, like is an organization. It is action, 1:37:53.680 --> 1:37:56.599 it is it is now. It is now the time 1:37:56.840 --> 1:38:00.280 to go do whatever political activity thing you've been being 1:38:00.439 --> 1:38:02.439 like a should I be organizing a union? Should I 1:38:02.520 --> 1:38:05.920 be like setting up strikes? Should I be doing street demonstrations? 1:38:05.960 --> 1:38:09.480 It's like, yeah, it's time, it's time to go because otherwise, 1:38:09.560 --> 1:38:11.320 you know, and I think this is something that like 1:38:12.520 --> 1:38:15.320 every trans person now understands intimately, and I think most 1:38:15.360 --> 1:38:19.760 people don't. Which is that right now it's us, But 1:38:20.200 --> 1:38:23.479 you know, in two years, assuming we're all still alive, 1:38:23.560 --> 1:38:25.000 there's a very good chance that it's going to be 1:38:25.160 --> 1:38:27.320 you like showing up on this show because a fucking 1:38:27.360 --> 1:38:30.800 congress person is deliberately interviewed to destroy your life. And 1:38:31.280 --> 1:38:33.720 I would rather we had stopped this before it got 1:38:33.760 --> 1:38:36.800 to any of us. But they're going to come for 1:38:36.880 --> 1:38:40.840 you too unless we stop them. Thank you so much 1:38:41.120 --> 1:38:43.559 for coming on the show. And where can people find 1:38:43.680 --> 1:38:47.000 you and find your art? And yeah, support you? 1:38:47.360 --> 1:38:49.559 Yeah, thanks for having me. May I really like talking 1:38:49.720 --> 1:38:54.120 with you. It's been very good and listeneris You can 1:38:54.160 --> 1:38:58.400 find my work on Spotify. You can also check out 1:38:58.439 --> 1:39:03.280 my website at precious Child dot com and please sign 1:39:03.360 --> 1:39:06.120 up for my mailing list there as well. That is 1:39:06.240 --> 1:39:09.360 the best and best direct way for me to stay 1:39:09.400 --> 1:39:12.679 in touch with my friends and fans. I'm also Precious 1:39:12.760 --> 1:39:17.960 Child on Instagram on TikTok. I am the last Precious Child. 1:39:18.880 --> 1:39:22.320 I also will be doing live shows this spring and 1:39:22.439 --> 1:39:26.400 summer in the US, and so follow me on my 1:39:26.479 --> 1:39:29.240 website and on social media to stay up to date 1:39:29.320 --> 1:39:31.519 on that and come say him in person. 1:39:31.880 --> 1:39:34.880 Hell yeah, we will have thanks to all of that 1:39:35.240 --> 1:39:38.640 in the description. So yeah, go check it out and 1:39:39.640 --> 1:39:41.959 resist the creep of fascism. 1:39:42.920 --> 1:39:45.880 That's one thing I want to add about I said 1:39:45.920 --> 1:39:49.360 earlier about personal power and how I have to develop 1:39:49.360 --> 1:39:53.240 plan personal power by getting to down myself. I want 1:39:53.280 --> 1:39:56.439 to toil trans people out there, you queer people and 1:39:56.600 --> 1:40:00.519 your allies. That first thing is getting today's and then 1:40:00.840 --> 1:40:03.760 next thing is like, fuck these fucking laws, Fuck these 1:40:03.840 --> 1:40:07.479 fucking lawmakers. Yeah, good to know each other and strengthen 1:40:07.600 --> 1:40:11.320 our bonds with each other, because those are bigger than 1:40:11.439 --> 1:40:14.120 any type of oppressive laws then we put upon us. 1:40:14.600 --> 1:40:17.320 And it's only by the strength that we developed with 1:40:17.520 --> 1:40:21.559 each other, within each other that we will persevere. 1:40:38.760 --> 1:40:41.680 Welcome back to it could happen here, a podcast about it, 1:40:42.000 --> 1:40:46.000 the Consumer Electronics Show happening here to everyone, And of 1:40:46.080 --> 1:40:48.680 course it is in fact happening to everyone because over 1:40:48.720 --> 1:40:51.439 the course of the day, all of our subjects here, 1:40:51.560 --> 1:40:55.000 all of our experts here, have watched different kinds of 1:40:55.120 --> 1:40:57.600 dudes explain the different kinds of jobs they want to 1:40:57.640 --> 1:41:00.080 replace with a chatbot that was trained on redit it. 1:41:00.960 --> 1:41:03.519 So I'm going to go around a circle and introduce 1:41:03.640 --> 1:41:06.519 our guests today. First off, we've got the great Ed 1:41:06.640 --> 1:41:09.439 Angwaiso Junior. Ed, thank you for being here, Thanks for 1:41:09.479 --> 1:41:13.479 having me on. We've got Garrison Davis, who's also great, 1:41:13.560 --> 1:41:15.360 but I'm not gonna say it at the same time 1:41:15.400 --> 1:41:17.599 because I don't want Ed's compliment to feel like less. 1:41:18.200 --> 1:41:20.880 But you're contractually obligated to not mind. 1:41:21.840 --> 1:41:28.759 Yes, thank you boss. Great to be here, as always. 1:41:29.400 --> 1:41:34.200 Very natural, very natural. Zi hi hi, Hello, Hello, hello, hello, 1:41:34.360 --> 1:41:37.559 thank you. This is your first cees as well. That's right, 1:41:37.880 --> 1:41:41.400 your first time being a journalist? Also true. How do 1:41:41.479 --> 1:41:44.439 you feel doing the job that Alex Garland has just 1:41:44.560 --> 1:41:47.960 reminded us in the movie Civil War is a fundamentally noble, 1:41:48.040 --> 1:41:50.200 perfect endeavor only practiced by heroes. 1:41:50.400 --> 1:41:53.240 I love wearing a dress, shirt and tie and just 1:41:53.320 --> 1:41:54.360 getting very drunk. 1:41:54.640 --> 1:41:57.599 Yeah, you were very surprised when I gave you your gun, 1:41:57.720 --> 1:42:00.800 but you can't be a journalist without one. Yeah, yeah, 1:42:01.439 --> 1:42:06.800 I'm playing with it without the safety and last but 1:42:06.960 --> 1:42:10.320 certainly not least in fact, maybe better than some people 1:42:10.400 --> 1:42:12.160 in the room. Again, I'm not going to say who. 1:42:12.280 --> 1:42:14.400 You can wonder that for yourself. Feel in. 1:42:16.120 --> 1:42:16.320 Rath. 1:42:16.840 --> 1:42:20.479 Thanks, I agree that I'm pretty good. How much better 1:42:20.520 --> 1:42:22.439 I am than how many people in this room? 1:42:22.439 --> 1:42:24.479 I'm not. I'm not even really like something that was 1:42:24.640 --> 1:42:26.840 not like talking about Yeah, exactly, because we haven't gotten 1:42:26.880 --> 1:42:29.280 those numbers back from open AI. Yeah, it would be 1:42:29.640 --> 1:42:32.160 irresponsible to speculate at the mind. Yeah, I got away 1:42:32.200 --> 1:42:36.439 for three So what I want to do here? I 1:42:36.479 --> 1:42:38.160 think this is kind of our roll up. We spent 1:42:38.240 --> 1:42:40.040 our last day on the floor. I want to go 1:42:40.120 --> 1:42:41.840 around and I'll start first. You guys have a second 1:42:41.880 --> 1:42:44.639 to get your thoughts together. What comes to mind immedia 1:42:44.720 --> 1:42:45.960 is like, this is the thing that I had the 1:42:46.040 --> 1:42:48.680 most positive reaction to, and this is the thing that 1:42:48.720 --> 1:42:51.160 I had the most negative reaction to. I think it 1:42:51.200 --> 1:42:53.439 is a solid way for us to start out, and 1:42:53.520 --> 1:42:56.679 I think my most negative reaction, obviously was the Amy 1:42:56.920 --> 1:43:01.360 artificial child best Friend toy, which was deeply upsetting and uncomfortable, 1:43:02.080 --> 1:43:03.800 and I hated both that. Like I could tell from 1:43:03.800 --> 1:43:07.559 an industrial design standpoint, pretty good design, Like it looked 1:43:07.600 --> 1:43:10.240 like something like oh, Kitt'll think that's cute and from 1:43:10.320 --> 1:43:13.160 a this is our intent for this product standpoint, it 1:43:13.240 --> 1:43:15.519 felt like a replacement for the love of adults in 1:43:15.560 --> 1:43:18.200 the life of a small child, which I thought was 1:43:18.280 --> 1:43:21.000 like evil in a profound way. And I guess the 1:43:21.200 --> 1:43:24.680 best thing that I saw. I'm not perfectly competent at 1:43:24.720 --> 1:43:27.720 this point to like analyze how well it worked, but 1:43:27.800 --> 1:43:29.840 from the demo I saw, I was very impressed with 1:43:30.120 --> 1:43:34.439 Naqi Knakis basically reads facial microemotions in order to let 1:43:34.479 --> 1:43:38.519 people control the computer, not exclusively, but especially if they're 1:43:38.560 --> 1:43:41.080 quadriplegic or whatever. Like, I thought that was really interesting, 1:43:41.120 --> 1:43:43.400 and it's the kind of thing because honestly, I might 1:43:43.479 --> 1:43:46.200 loop that in with There was a AI assisted like 1:43:46.320 --> 1:43:49.080 Caine for people who were blind. There was another device 1:43:49.120 --> 1:43:51.599 that led you to control a computer through like facial 1:43:51.640 --> 1:43:53.920 movements in your mouth. It was like a retainer all 1:43:54.040 --> 1:43:56.320 the stuff that's like, oh, these are like really people 1:43:56.520 --> 1:43:59.760 care a lot about helping somebody regain the ability to 1:44:00.120 --> 1:44:03.120 utilize technology to let them reconnect to the world. That's 1:44:03.280 --> 1:44:06.160 like the opposite of replacing a child's parents with a 1:44:06.240 --> 1:44:09.040 toy ed. You're in the hot seat next. 1:44:09.520 --> 1:44:09.680 You know. 1:44:09.800 --> 1:44:15.040 The thing I loved the most was obviously the Global 1:44:15.120 --> 1:44:17.960 Pavilion for connecting Web three businesses. 1:44:17.479 --> 1:44:19.000 Across crypto botching. 1:44:19.320 --> 1:44:25.840 Oh yeah, DeFi fintech cb DC's, which are central bank 1:44:25.920 --> 1:44:30.840 digital currencies and legal advocacy. You know, this made my 1:44:31.000 --> 1:44:35.960 heart flutter because you know what, even when you think 1:44:36.040 --> 1:44:41.240 they're down, Crypto finds a way to squirm into your life. 1:44:41.640 --> 1:44:43.960 It really is the zombie of the tech world. Yeah, 1:44:44.120 --> 1:44:48.719 because it's dead and yet it's undead. It's constantly trying 1:44:48.760 --> 1:44:49.479 to crawl that. 1:44:50.000 --> 1:44:53.719 Somehow the fact that it's dead makes it more dangerous. Now, yeah, exactly, 1:44:54.640 --> 1:44:57.280 it's specifically a zombie. I will try to figure out 1:44:57.280 --> 1:45:00.799 what's the vampire, but specifically Crypto is the zombie. 1:45:00.880 --> 1:45:01.080 Yeah. 1:45:01.120 --> 1:45:03.320 Yeah. When I first read the line that is not dead, 1:45:03.600 --> 1:45:06.400 which can eternal lie and with strange eons, even death 1:45:06.479 --> 1:45:09.280 may die. Yeah, it would. 1:45:10.680 --> 1:45:15.280 When I think of, you know, twenty eight years later 1:45:15.439 --> 1:45:17.440 trailer where they used that poem. 1:45:19.160 --> 1:45:20.240 Three six. 1:45:20.600 --> 1:45:23.040 You know, like, I'm just guessing where the price of 1:45:23.080 --> 1:45:26.680 bitcoin is gonna go. I think we're we're at the 1:45:26.760 --> 1:45:28.640 beginning of a golden age, not for us but for 1:45:28.720 --> 1:45:33.400 the grifters. Oh God, next week, when are dear Golden 1:45:33.400 --> 1:45:37.440 Boy gets or Orange Boy gets elected. So I are inaugurated? 1:45:37.760 --> 1:45:38.800 Has he already won the election? 1:45:39.920 --> 1:45:40.280 You did? 1:45:40.640 --> 1:45:40.760 Right? 1:45:41.840 --> 1:45:45.160 Well, that's that's that's debatable. I think there was some 1:45:45.400 --> 1:45:50.639 very curious irregularities in days right straightforward from here. 1:45:50.680 --> 1:45:54.920 To be encouraging the Blue and one people let him, 1:45:54.960 --> 1:45:58.200 let him have it, Let him have it. You're right, 1:45:58.400 --> 1:46:01.479 he wasn't shot at all. That was all an AI trick. Yeah, 1:46:02.760 --> 1:46:04.760 fifteen would blow your whole head off that way. 1:46:05.760 --> 1:46:05.920 You know. 1:46:06.040 --> 1:46:07.720 The thing I actually did like the most, similar to you, 1:46:07.840 --> 1:46:11.040 I really did like the assistive tech. I mean the 1:46:11.080 --> 1:46:14.280 stuff that is for people who are disabled, not able 1:46:14.360 --> 1:46:18.560 body either experiencings either cognitive decline or you know, the 1:46:18.720 --> 1:46:20.880 nerodegenitive things or paralyzed. 1:46:20.920 --> 1:46:20.960 Like. 1:46:21.240 --> 1:46:24.040 This is actual stuff that we need a lot more 1:46:24.880 --> 1:46:27.439 investment in development and I assume maybe the scale up 1:46:27.439 --> 1:46:29.840 production of it and figure out ways that it can 1:46:29.960 --> 1:46:33.120 be offered to people in a variety or in a 1:46:33.160 --> 1:46:34.439 spectrum of use cases. 1:46:34.560 --> 1:46:34.680 Right. 1:46:35.280 --> 1:46:38.439 I think the stuff that I did not like, hmm, 1:46:39.600 --> 1:46:42.120 you know, I didn't really care for a lot of 1:46:42.280 --> 1:46:49.360 the luxury surveillance stuff, you know, the fake cgms that 1:46:49.680 --> 1:46:53.080 you know, I'll never forget this woman telling someone right 1:46:53.160 --> 1:46:55.519 next to me, it's a It was a medical device 1:46:55.560 --> 1:46:58.400 that when I asked, she looks at my attack and goes, no, 1:47:00.200 --> 1:47:06.120 it's not a medically. 1:47:05.320 --> 1:47:07.720 We had a beautiful moment where it was this like 1:47:08.160 --> 1:47:10.800 it was like a set of smart goggles, which there 1:47:10.840 --> 1:47:12.400 were a lot of that had like night vision, but 1:47:12.439 --> 1:47:15.840 also it had like threat assessments. So the specific thing 1:47:15.840 --> 1:47:18.040 they bragged is like it can help a police officer 1:47:18.160 --> 1:47:22.000 identify if somebody has a gun. Right, And this this 1:47:22.280 --> 1:47:24.799 was right after we had gone to an AI security 1:47:24.880 --> 1:47:26.680 camera that I had flipped off with both hands and 1:47:26.720 --> 1:47:30.439 it had identified as a man giving the thumbbat And 1:47:31.080 --> 1:47:33.400 I don't feel great about it identifying the gun. 1:47:34.520 --> 1:47:37.960 Luxury surveillance for health, luxury surveillance for a recognition. Also 1:47:38.080 --> 1:47:40.120 like they had it in litter boxes and shit, don't 1:47:40.200 --> 1:47:40.439 need that. 1:47:40.880 --> 1:47:41.920 I really don't need that. 1:47:41.960 --> 1:47:44.160 Why does the letterbox need to be connected to the internet. 1:47:44.479 --> 1:47:45.519 Why does it need a camera? 1:47:46.560 --> 1:47:48.639 You know that does maybe think of a better world 1:47:48.680 --> 1:47:51.439 where we have exactly as much money and focus on AI, 1:47:51.600 --> 1:47:55.560 but it's all integrating it into cat focused products like 1:47:55.720 --> 1:47:59.960 fifty billion dollars being poured into cattle. Translate whatever you're 1:48:00.040 --> 1:48:04.120 cat is saying into French perfectly. Your cat can make 1:48:04.200 --> 1:48:07.840 deals with Chinese and by the way, we've hooked him 1:48:07.920 --> 1:48:10.280 up to venture capital. He has an open line of 1:48:10.439 --> 1:48:12.800 soft bank. Siri, why you know that? 1:48:13.040 --> 1:48:15.720 I would love this translation. Let's help my cat make 1:48:15.800 --> 1:48:19.080 some deals. Help me figure out why or how he 1:48:19.240 --> 1:48:22.000 learned to open my door, you know, things like this, 1:48:22.680 --> 1:48:24.200 But what we get an am bullshit. 1:48:24.360 --> 1:48:26.160 I want to see a guy dressed as Steve Jobs 1:48:26.200 --> 1:48:28.439 be like ladies and gentlemen. We have finally done it. 1:48:28.720 --> 1:48:31.840 We have gotten across the concept of death to a cat, 1:48:32.280 --> 1:48:33.559 and I understand there. 1:48:33.680 --> 1:48:41.400 Mortalent actually that like common ad where he's talking about AI, 1:48:41.520 --> 1:48:43.720 but he's like, we taught proofs to a dog. 1:48:44.800 --> 1:48:49.439 Got turtleback on what a dog would think about It's 1:48:49.560 --> 1:48:52.480 just a dog sitting at a table smoking a cigarette. 1:48:54.840 --> 1:48:59.800 The future. Mm hmm, Garrison, you're up. 1:49:01.160 --> 1:49:05.839 Best of CS I think was definitely the VLC media 1:49:05.960 --> 1:49:09.800 booth at the park where they they had like they 1:49:09.840 --> 1:49:12.200 had big, big traffic cones on their head, wearing them 1:49:12.280 --> 1:49:14.240 like wizard hats with huge cloaks. 1:49:14.280 --> 1:49:15.519 They were dressed as wizards. 1:49:15.800 --> 1:49:17.800 They were dressed as wizards, and we walked up to 1:49:17.880 --> 1:49:19.160 them and they said. 1:49:19.160 --> 1:49:21.639 Let's let's start VLC folks, if you if you don't 1:49:21.720 --> 1:49:23.519 know this, this was especially relevant to those of us 1:49:23.560 --> 1:49:26.479 who pirated a lot. It's a media app that allows 1:49:26.520 --> 1:49:30.120 you to basically play any kind of like any video Fi, idiophile, yes, 1:49:30.520 --> 1:49:32.920 or audio file, and now it will automatically give you 1:49:33.000 --> 1:49:35.840 subtitles to using local AI. That's not like reaching to 1:49:35.880 --> 1:49:36.800 the cloud or anything to do. 1:49:36.880 --> 1:49:39.799 It, because putting some titles on pirated media can sometimes 1:49:39.840 --> 1:49:42.040 be really hard. So they said, we have something that 1:49:42.160 --> 1:49:45.320 analyzes the audio that's being spoken in whatever media you're watching, 1:49:45.360 --> 1:49:47.280 and we will put some titles up for you. We 1:49:47.439 --> 1:49:50.439 walked up and we're like, so what do you have here? Like, 1:49:50.680 --> 1:49:54.240 we are not selling anything, We have nothing to sell you. 1:49:55.080 --> 1:49:57.280 In this beautiful they're fringe. So it was in this 1:49:57.520 --> 1:50:00.080 like yeah, yeah, wonderful access. I'm not going to the 1:50:00.760 --> 1:50:02.799 degree of like I don't give a fuck about anything 1:50:02.840 --> 1:50:06.000 else of this stupid goddamn show that they gave off. 1:50:06.120 --> 1:50:07.320 They exuded it and. 1:50:07.439 --> 1:50:10.000 They're they're they're by far the coolest because of something 1:50:10.160 --> 1:50:11.200 Robert You said to them. 1:50:11.400 --> 1:50:13.600 I walked up and I was like, VLC is a 1:50:13.680 --> 1:50:16.040 very popular app. They just crossed six billion downloads. I've 1:50:16.040 --> 1:50:18.360 been using them for almost as long as you've been alive. 1:50:18.400 --> 1:50:19.960 And I walked up and I was like, I've been 1:50:20.040 --> 1:50:23.240 using your product for fifteen years. In ordered a pirate 1:50:23.360 --> 1:50:27.880 media and they said, very nonchalantly, keep going, keep keep going, 1:50:29.760 --> 1:50:32.479 keep doing that, keep doing that. I'm obsessed. 1:50:32.560 --> 1:50:33.720 Yeah, that's amazing. 1:50:33.920 --> 1:50:36.240 About this too, because, like I, it's a good app. 1:50:36.280 --> 1:50:38.000 I have also used it. I saw the guy in 1:50:38.080 --> 1:50:39.559 the hat and I was like, Oh, it's the VLC 1:50:39.840 --> 1:50:41.400 from you know, from on your desktop. 1:50:41.720 --> 1:50:43.920 And then I was like, that's that's stupid. I don't 1:50:43.920 --> 1:50:45.479 need to talk to the man. He's wearing a hat 1:50:45.560 --> 1:50:47.400 and a cape. And I'm glad that you followed through. 1:50:47.520 --> 1:50:49.800 As a journalist pushed aside your instinct to be like, 1:50:49.880 --> 1:50:52.360 do not approach stranger in a cape? 1:50:52.920 --> 1:50:54.160 Garrison does not have that answer. 1:50:55.040 --> 1:50:58.560 No, no, At some point the contrary, I feel a 1:50:58.640 --> 1:50:59.519 magnetic attraction. 1:51:01.479 --> 1:51:03.320 This is why I keep an air tag on them. 1:51:04.280 --> 1:51:05.479 A great way to get abducted. 1:51:07.400 --> 1:51:12.639 I think similarly, obviously all of the AI stuff for kids, 1:51:12.680 --> 1:51:15.000 all of like the AI slop is like obviously bad. 1:51:15.040 --> 1:51:17.120 We've talked about that a lot already. The other thing 1:51:17.200 --> 1:51:19.120 that's like kind of like the worst is similar to 1:51:19.280 --> 1:51:21.559 what you said, ed like the level of surveillance tech. 1:51:21.760 --> 1:51:23.800 I tried out multiple a systems that are supposed to 1:51:23.960 --> 1:51:27.920 like detect and predict behavior based on facial expressions or 1:51:28.000 --> 1:51:32.120 gesture and this is really tricky. There was one at 1:51:32.200 --> 1:51:35.200 Eureka Park. It's a South Korean company that's powered I 1:51:35.240 --> 1:51:37.880 believe by Samsung with money and also they've access to 1:51:37.960 --> 1:51:43.240 like their training data. They're called Visomatic And specifically why 1:51:43.400 --> 1:51:45.519 this exists. It is a camera that you can put 1:51:45.560 --> 1:51:47.439 on a put on a computer. It will it will 1:51:47.520 --> 1:51:50.360 detect where your face is pointing and where your eyes 1:51:50.400 --> 1:51:53.360 are paying attention to. And the reason why this exists 1:51:53.760 --> 1:51:56.680 is for online test taking. It's so people don't like 1:51:56.760 --> 1:51:59.880 look at their phone to like cheat, so it tracks 1:52:00.040 --> 1:52:01.559 where your eyes are moving and if your eyes look 1:52:01.640 --> 1:52:04.280 down too much, it's gonna flag it as someone's possibly cheating. 1:52:04.400 --> 1:52:07.679 So this was obviously like introduced after the pandemic. There's 1:52:07.680 --> 1:52:09.960 a lot a lot of online test taking. Samsung uses 1:52:10.040 --> 1:52:12.400 this tech themselves for any kind of like online exams 1:52:12.600 --> 1:52:14.920 that they as a company will put on, you know, 1:52:15.080 --> 1:52:18.080 whether it's like for people students, employees. But they also 1:52:18.160 --> 1:52:20.080 had like other features where you could switch it. I 1:52:20.120 --> 1:52:21.439 assume what it's doing all the same work, it just 1:52:21.600 --> 1:52:24.160 is placed differently on the monitor and instead of can 1:52:24.200 --> 1:52:26.759 you know, do like object detection you know what you're wearing, 1:52:27.560 --> 1:52:30.000 and the general like behavior analysis if you seem like 1:52:30.040 --> 1:52:33.400 you're behaving suspiciously, which is something that we tried at 1:52:33.439 --> 1:52:36.320 the SK booth, which also South Korean company for their 1:52:36.439 --> 1:52:40.560 own like like surveillance detection. But I asked Visomatic like like, 1:52:40.720 --> 1:52:42.040 what kind of use cases do you see for this 1:52:42.120 --> 1:52:44.880 beyond test tick? You know, like yeah, general surveillance, Like yeah, 1:52:45.800 --> 1:52:48.560 we want to learn how to like predict or like 1:52:48.680 --> 1:52:52.559 analyze potentially suspicious human behavior. As we were walking by 1:52:52.640 --> 1:52:56.280 the SK version. One quite funny thing is as I 1:52:56.400 --> 1:52:59.400 walked by, it first at first identified me as a 1:52:59.479 --> 1:53:03.679 blonde war holding a cup. It then changed and said 1:53:03.720 --> 1:53:06.799 blonde person, which I think is pretty it's pretty deep. 1:53:07.160 --> 1:53:09.360 Very progressive. It's doing the opposite of a Facebook. 1:53:09.479 --> 1:53:12.679 Yeah, it could sense the pronouns. It's like hmm, maybe 1:53:13.320 --> 1:53:18.240 maybe not maybe not a woman, maybe not a blonde person, 1:53:19.760 --> 1:53:22.320 but but yes, that was you know, something that was 1:53:22.360 --> 1:53:26.120 like quite well done. Specifically the visomatic stuff like very functional. 1:53:26.439 --> 1:53:28.160 It could tell when I was looking at the screen, 1:53:28.360 --> 1:53:30.240 when I was looking at my phone, it could tell 1:53:30.360 --> 1:53:32.960 from like various various angles, like what I was holding, 1:53:33.040 --> 1:53:35.599 what I was looking at, where my attention was being directed. 1:53:35.960 --> 1:53:36.240 Like it was. 1:53:36.320 --> 1:53:38.720 It was very well done. It was very accurate, but 1:53:38.800 --> 1:53:39.840 you know, possibly scary. 1:53:40.720 --> 1:53:43.920 Well, speaking of possibly scary, the sponsors of this podcast 1:53:44.600 --> 1:53:46.400 don't know who they are, could be the Washington State 1:53:46.479 --> 1:53:49.160 Highway Patrol again, in which case, thank you boys for 1:53:49.280 --> 1:53:53.639 your noble service on our nation's roads. I'm not saying 1:53:53.720 --> 1:53:56.160 that because I got pulled over the other week and 1:53:56.200 --> 1:53:58.240 I'm really trying to fight a case right now. I 1:53:58.240 --> 1:54:13.439 would never do that anyway. Thanks guys, and we're back. 1:54:15.720 --> 1:54:16.320 Is it my turn? 1:54:16.479 --> 1:54:17.120 It is your turn? 1:54:17.600 --> 1:54:20.360 Okay, So I'm going to introduce our special white woman 1:54:20.520 --> 1:54:24.840 CORRESPONDENTSI to give us some exciting breaking news in the 1:54:25.000 --> 1:54:27.040 white woman tech development world. 1:54:27.920 --> 1:54:31.400 Okay, so the first one is positive for contexts, I'm 1:54:31.439 --> 1:54:34.840 a trans woman. And one of the boosts that was 1:54:34.920 --> 1:54:39.480 pretty interesting it was this group. Were they French, Garrett, 1:54:39.520 --> 1:54:43.480 you remember I, I you know they're they're they're European. 1:54:43.640 --> 1:54:46.120 They're called Ellie Ellie Health. 1:54:46.200 --> 1:54:47.080 It's E l I. 1:54:47.680 --> 1:54:52.840 Anyways, this is a at home hormone tester, So it 1:54:53.000 --> 1:54:57.400 is saliva base. It's like a little disposable package. Currently 1:54:57.520 --> 1:55:01.440 they only advertise cortisol and progress rone, but they have 1:55:01.640 --> 1:55:05.720 plans for estrade, isle and other hormones, testoster as well, 1:55:05.800 --> 1:55:11.600 testosterone as well. Sorry, and yeah, so you swab your 1:55:11.640 --> 1:55:15.360 mouth in the morning or evening and then you wait, 1:55:15.600 --> 1:55:18.480 what was it, like, fifteen minutes, twenty minutes, and then 1:55:18.600 --> 1:55:23.040 you scan this little like QR thing on the device 1:55:23.560 --> 1:55:27.880 and your phone calculates what your levels are. And this 1:55:28.040 --> 1:55:33.400 has very interesting implications for like the DIY hormone market 1:55:33.680 --> 1:55:37.880 or use case. I started DIY and did my own 1:55:38.040 --> 1:55:41.040 like blood tests, but a lot of like trans kids 1:55:41.080 --> 1:55:42.280 don't have access to that. 1:55:42.560 --> 1:55:47.480 So this is a it's a good idea if it's actually. 1:55:47.200 --> 1:55:50.480 Effective, Like we an't have hands on yet, we haven't 1:55:50.520 --> 1:55:52.360 tested it yet, but I would love to do a 1:55:52.440 --> 1:55:55.440 comparison of like testing my own levels and then trying 1:55:55.560 --> 1:55:57.839 this very interesting, very intriguing. 1:55:58.040 --> 1:56:00.320 Yeah, we will certainly as soon as possible. Has this 1:56:00.760 --> 1:56:03.840 compared to the regular like mail in blood tests, which 1:56:03.920 --> 1:56:05.520 is like the current way to do it, but that 1:56:05.680 --> 1:56:08.960 requires shipping your blood to a laboratory, and that's maybe 1:56:09.040 --> 1:56:12.600 not always the best or even like convenient. So being 1:56:12.600 --> 1:56:14.720 able to test this just at home without shipping any 1:56:14.760 --> 1:56:18.240 of your DNA to some random laboratory would be really 1:56:18.520 --> 1:56:19.040 really cool. 1:56:19.520 --> 1:56:25.560 Right, There's no insurance involved. This is completely supposedly close source. 1:56:25.800 --> 1:56:28.040 From what y'all were telling me earlier today, when you 1:56:28.320 --> 1:56:30.880 explained this to me, it sounded kind of like the 1:56:30.960 --> 1:56:34.480 people making this have an understanding of the dangers inherent, 1:56:34.600 --> 1:56:37.000 particularly to the trans community, and why they might want 1:56:37.040 --> 1:56:39.840 to use this, and a focus on privacy. For that reason, 1:56:40.160 --> 1:56:43.520 I didn't press them on that because I don't know. 1:56:43.680 --> 1:56:47.920 I follow ces you know, wide variety of Yeah. 1:56:48.040 --> 1:56:50.440 No, we tried to expect as much intel as possible 1:56:50.720 --> 1:56:53.600 about kind of what their future plans are, but not 1:56:53.720 --> 1:56:55.520 specifically like in that level. 1:56:55.520 --> 1:56:58.400 But privacy, like they seemed like they had of coursably 1:56:58.400 --> 1:56:59.400 good understand. 1:56:59.080 --> 1:57:00.840 Of course, it's because it's because it is your own 1:57:00.880 --> 1:57:03.520 like DNA and hormones, you know, Like, I do not 1:57:03.680 --> 1:57:05.720 know this company is even thinking about trans people if 1:57:05.760 --> 1:57:08.680 it is trans friendly, but it could be used by 1:57:08.800 --> 1:57:10.040 trans people regardless. 1:57:10.480 --> 1:57:14.360 Yeah, much like a glock exactly exactly. 1:57:15.120 --> 1:57:16.280 The potential is great. 1:57:16.920 --> 1:57:20.240 And then probably my least favorite goofs. 1:57:20.480 --> 1:57:23.240 I have to call out some other white women my 1:57:23.600 --> 1:57:27.840 so call boho white women is ebjects. 1:57:28.080 --> 1:57:32.840 And has that spelled ev ev J E C t okay? 1:57:33.320 --> 1:57:34.320 And what this is? 1:57:34.360 --> 1:57:34.760 Oh god? 1:57:34.880 --> 1:57:39.960 Yes, this is a special plug for your charging port 1:57:40.080 --> 1:57:45.520 of your EV. So the idea is a nefarious party 1:57:45.880 --> 1:57:49.320 sees you and your fancy EV and approaches you and 1:57:49.440 --> 1:57:53.400 you need a quick getaway. Their words, their words, their words, 1:57:53.520 --> 1:57:56.200 by the way, like they see your fancy car and 1:57:56.320 --> 1:58:02.520 your targets. So this device will like e jacks, you 1:58:02.600 --> 1:58:05.839 can just drive away from the charge the power cart. 1:58:07.240 --> 1:58:11.720 Leaving broken pieces of plastic both yes, the charger way 1:58:12.160 --> 1:58:15.920 like this is not reusable, single use, one time use. 1:58:16.240 --> 1:58:16.440 Yes. 1:58:17.200 --> 1:58:21.200 So yeah, all those all those people targeting so call 1:58:21.360 --> 1:58:21.880 white women. 1:58:23.360 --> 1:58:25.720 This is finally someone is serving the community of people 1:58:25.760 --> 1:58:27.320 that think that if you find a zip. 1:58:27.200 --> 1:58:31.320 Tie on your car door handle MS thirteen. That was 1:58:31.360 --> 1:58:33.120 the first thing I said. As soon as soon as 1:58:33.160 --> 1:58:35.280 we walked away, I was like, this product wins the 1:58:35.400 --> 1:58:39.080 Coolson Media Award for the most white woman product. It's 1:58:39.080 --> 1:58:41.720 specifically right, like if you see a slice of cheese 1:58:41.840 --> 1:58:46.040 on your windshield, you're already targeted. Way this is this 1:58:46.200 --> 1:58:48.600 is that exact demographic of people who think they're going 1:58:48.640 --> 1:58:51.960 to get trafficked in like your local like olive garden 1:58:52.280 --> 1:58:53.120 parking lots. 1:58:53.160 --> 1:58:59.320 Gangs stalked Americans in the Tesla charging station in Brentwood, California, 1:58:59.600 --> 1:59:03.600 where they average incomes like in the eight figures. I 1:59:03.680 --> 1:59:05.800 gotta say, though, you're being very unfair to them. It 1:59:05.920 --> 1:59:08.080 was so nice of them to put down the phone 1:59:08.080 --> 1:59:10.120 where they were doom scrolling TikTok, to look at all 1:59:10.160 --> 1:59:12.240 of the different reasons their kids are going to be abducted. 1:59:12.280 --> 1:59:15.200 We're talking about this product. You know, they're like some 1:59:15.400 --> 1:59:19.080 finally someone's gonna do something about it. Create a disposable 1:59:19.120 --> 1:59:19.880 piece of plastic. 1:59:20.080 --> 1:59:22.480 You notice that guy is always sitting down at the 1:59:22.640 --> 1:59:26.360 gym and the coffee shop and the gas station. 1:59:27.040 --> 1:59:27.880 This is what he doesn't get. 1:59:28.240 --> 1:59:28.680 Be careful. 1:59:28.800 --> 1:59:30.480 I feel like I could have upsold them, and like 1:59:30.520 --> 1:59:32.360 what if we put some explosives in this, you know, 1:59:32.520 --> 1:59:34.520 really like keep them off of the. 1:59:34.600 --> 1:59:39.680 Car, like blo, create a diversion inside of it, called 1:59:39.800 --> 1:59:42.440 the police station and took a picture of him. 1:59:42.400 --> 1:59:46.200 And someone scared. A lady driving a Vibe that's one 1:59:46.240 --> 1:59:47.160 of the electric. 1:59:46.880 --> 1:59:51.080 Cars, right, It's like a crocodile tail as as as 1:59:51.160 --> 1:59:55.839 it whips around, mobilizing anyone in the vicinity. 1:59:56.000 --> 1:59:58.840 We're calling it the iguana, and it does with enough 1:59:58.920 --> 2:00:04.120 force to break a grow man. Yeah, yes, Okay, David Roth. 2:00:04.600 --> 2:00:07.400 So there's a lot of I guess I gathered less 2:00:07.600 --> 2:00:09.480 than in years past that this was at one point 2:00:09.560 --> 2:00:11.200 like basically a car show. There is not a lot 2:00:11.240 --> 2:00:14.200 of transit stuff this time around. I didn't get to 2:00:14.200 --> 2:00:16.600 see very much of it, but I did have. I 2:00:16.680 --> 2:00:18.879 guess this is both my best and my worst experience, 2:00:18.960 --> 2:00:21.880 the most powerful transit experience of my life. 2:00:22.200 --> 2:00:23.360 So I live in New York City. I take the 2:00:23.400 --> 2:00:26.000 subway pretty much everywhere I go, and you know, it 2:00:26.080 --> 2:00:28.240 has its ups and downs. For the most part, it's good. 2:00:28.280 --> 2:00:30.560 It moves like twelve hundred people through a tunnel of 2:00:30.720 --> 2:00:33.120 thirty odd miles an hour, and for the most part, 2:00:33.120 --> 2:00:35.520 everybody leaves everybody else alone, or you know, watches videos 2:00:35.520 --> 2:00:38.080 on their phone and stuff. But I knew that there 2:00:38.160 --> 2:00:41.120 had to be a better way, and at the Las 2:00:41.240 --> 2:00:44.400 Vegas Convention Center, I got to experience it. 2:00:44.880 --> 2:00:47.360 You're familiar Elon Musk, serial entrepreneur. 2:00:48.080 --> 2:00:50.720 Yeah, so he invented something called the hyper loop which 2:00:50.800 --> 2:00:52.400 is a car that goes through a tunnel that's the 2:00:52.520 --> 2:00:55.440 exact same size as the car at eleven miles an hour, 2:00:56.120 --> 2:00:58.760 and it takes there's someone has to drive it, and 2:00:58.840 --> 2:01:01.400 also someone has to help you into the car. But 2:01:01.480 --> 2:01:04.040 you can fit up the three additional people into the car, 2:01:04.200 --> 2:01:07.480 so that ratio everyone, I know, Yes, right, So yeah, 2:01:07.800 --> 2:01:12.480 you got two people moving three people two hundred yards 2:01:13.200 --> 2:01:16.040 at the speed of like a brisk walk. Now, David, 2:01:16.040 --> 2:01:19.400 this kind of technology wasn't possible just a few decades, right, exactly. 2:01:19.440 --> 2:01:21.360 I mean, this was the sort of thing. Though there 2:01:21.440 --> 2:01:25.760 had been tunnels, they were mostly used by animals, voles miners, yes, right, 2:01:25.800 --> 2:01:28.280 and thought yeah, and that was mostly for pirates in 2:01:28.320 --> 2:01:30.560 at least one movie I saw recently, Yes, but no 2:01:30.600 --> 2:01:32.680 one had thought about it as a transit sort of thing. 2:01:32.760 --> 2:01:34.320 It was more of a like a place where you 2:01:34.360 --> 2:01:38.240 would go if you needed to get copper. And of course, 2:01:38.720 --> 2:01:41.000 but in this case, so this is like where it's 2:01:41.040 --> 2:01:43.560 good to have and this I guess every ces is 2:01:43.600 --> 2:01:46.480 like this. This was my first to be reminded that 2:01:46.760 --> 2:01:49.800 there are visionaries out there who are like, what if 2:01:49.840 --> 2:01:53.080 you put car through hole? What if instead of a 2:01:53.160 --> 2:01:56.640 thing that moves multiple people at once. You had a 2:01:56.680 --> 2:01:59.320 thing that took exactly the same number of people to 2:01:59.480 --> 2:02:02.920 move a number of people slightly more than Yes, Yeah, 2:02:03.440 --> 2:02:05.160 so that was cool. I mean it's just like fun 2:02:05.240 --> 2:02:06.920 to see like where this stuff is going. And I 2:02:07.000 --> 2:02:09.640 really wonder if we're not going to start seeing things 2:02:09.720 --> 2:02:13.320 like cars on the streets of American cities, you know, 2:02:13.520 --> 2:02:18.920 like it could be okay, David, I mean most of 2:02:18.960 --> 2:02:20.720 the obviously this is something we'd go on. Last yere 2:02:20.800 --> 2:02:22.280 was like three or four good things you all said them. 2:02:22.320 --> 2:02:25.600 I thought the accessibility tech stuff was the the stuff 2:02:25.640 --> 2:02:28.720 that made me feel good about what was going on here, 2:02:28.760 --> 2:02:30.200 and there was a great deal of stuff that made 2:02:30.200 --> 2:02:32.200 me feel like pretty bad about what was going on. Yeah, 2:02:32.360 --> 2:02:35.400 up to and including like the surveillance stuff beyond the 2:02:35.800 --> 2:02:40.680 you know, like advanced Samsung powered snitch tech so that 2:02:40.800 --> 2:02:43.600 nobody whatever your boss can tell if you're really looking 2:02:43.680 --> 2:02:46.120 at the zoom that you're on. I don't really love 2:02:46.200 --> 2:02:48.680 that personally, But for me, the a lot of the 2:02:49.120 --> 2:02:51.680 smart home stuff is real drag like just in the 2:02:51.760 --> 2:02:54.400 sense that it clearly, first of all, beyond being like 2:02:54.440 --> 2:02:58.800 sort of unnecessary, there's a level of just willingly giving 2:02:58.880 --> 2:03:03.400 over your agency over the small moments that make you 2:03:03.480 --> 2:03:05.440 know human life human life, and just being like I 2:03:05.480 --> 2:03:08.040 would really love it if just like an artificial intelligence 2:03:08.080 --> 2:03:10.839 could pick my pants out for the day. I'll simply 2:03:10.920 --> 2:03:14.000 stand here waiting for that to happen. Yeah, just fucking 2:03:14.080 --> 2:03:17.400 grim actually, like didn't really care for it. I feel 2:03:17.400 --> 2:03:20.120 like you gotta like, what are you using that time 2:03:20.200 --> 2:03:20.440 to do? 2:03:21.520 --> 2:03:24.200 Yeah? What are you getting? What are you optimizing from 2:03:24.280 --> 2:03:27.200 yourself by not having like pieces of like the thing 2:03:27.320 --> 2:03:29.360 that a human being does, which is like pick your 2:03:29.440 --> 2:03:32.720 clothes right? Yeah, I wonder how you feel about this 2:03:32.760 --> 2:03:34.360 because you and I have been going to sees from 2:03:34.400 --> 2:03:37.000 and I guess a broadly similar number of years. Like 2:03:37.080 --> 2:03:38.880 I've never been to CEO. Oh really this is your No, 2:03:39.000 --> 2:03:40.880 I'm a fucking sports writer man, Like, this is a 2:03:40.920 --> 2:03:43.640 lot of out here because Ed got me a folding head. 2:03:43.800 --> 2:03:46.360 I have like the dead eyedes veterans. Oh yeah, well 2:03:46.400 --> 2:03:47.520 I'm very tired. Yeah. 2:03:47.760 --> 2:03:49.680 This is the thing with like I think, as far 2:03:49.720 --> 2:03:51.640 as I can tell, it seems like it's a loop 2:03:52.200 --> 2:03:54.400 where you more or less like you start out it's 2:03:54.440 --> 2:03:56.520 too much, you get big eye right away, and then 2:03:56.560 --> 2:03:58.880 you just sort of feel zombiefied. But then we have 2:03:59.000 --> 2:04:01.360 talked to people over the last few days that are like, 2:04:01.400 --> 2:04:04.120 you know, I remember like fourteen cess ago that was 2:04:04.200 --> 2:04:08.080 pretty good, like and they're also tired and also arranged 2:04:08.080 --> 2:04:08.520 by this point. 2:04:08.600 --> 2:04:10.920 Yeah, the first time someone showed me a tablet computer, 2:04:11.040 --> 2:04:13.600 I was like, oh man, science has given me everything 2:04:13.680 --> 2:04:15.960 I want, like, and I guess it's I don't know. 2:04:16.200 --> 2:04:18.720 Do you remember like when the last one was that 2:04:18.880 --> 2:04:25.680 you felt like even sort of that stirring. Yeah, twenty 2:04:25.880 --> 2:04:29.080 like eleven or twelve when they did. I got to 2:04:29.120 --> 2:04:31.640 see inductive charging of a car for the first time, 2:04:31.680 --> 2:04:34.080 and it like was so big. The Las Vegas Convention 2:04:34.240 --> 2:04:37.560 Center is like as the size of a city, and 2:04:37.720 --> 2:04:40.760 seeing like the lights in that whole convention center dim 2:04:40.960 --> 2:04:45.960 as they were doing it was very inefficient because our 2:04:46.080 --> 2:04:48.240 wild Yeah, but that was just like that was like, 2:04:48.400 --> 2:04:51.080 oh wow, this is kind of like amazing that this 2:04:51.240 --> 2:04:55.360 is even possible. But yeah, not really sense, not really sense. 2:04:56.200 --> 2:04:57.840 That's why I'm really glad that there's lights in the 2:04:57.920 --> 2:05:02.280 hyper loop tunnel. Yeah, otherwise it'd be unless something goes wrong, 2:05:02.320 --> 2:05:04.520 would it started to seem kind of grim? Otherwise? Well, 2:05:04.560 --> 2:05:07.440 I the smart home stuff is interesting because that has 2:05:07.480 --> 2:05:09.080 been as long as I've been going to these they've 2:05:09.080 --> 2:05:12.560 been trying to sell people on smart homes, and I 2:05:12.680 --> 2:05:15.640 don't think I've ever gotten a good idea of what 2:05:15.800 --> 2:05:18.440 a smart home is that I think a person would want. 2:05:18.680 --> 2:05:20.960 I can think of two things a person would want right. 2:05:21.280 --> 2:05:23.360 One of them is, it would be nice if, like 2:05:23.440 --> 2:05:25.480 I didn't have to think about playing music. I could 2:05:25.560 --> 2:05:27.880 just like tell my house to play the music I wanted, 2:05:27.880 --> 2:05:29.720 and it would play the music and I could hear 2:05:29.760 --> 2:05:31.280 it everywhere and I didn't have to fuss with a 2:05:31.320 --> 2:05:33.720 bunch of shit. And the second is, what if I'm 2:05:33.720 --> 2:05:35.960 coming home from vacation and my house is cold, it 2:05:36.000 --> 2:05:37.720 would be nice to turn on the heat or like 2:05:37.760 --> 2:05:40.960 an hour before I get home. And one of those 2:05:41.040 --> 2:05:43.400 things you'd use every day, and one of those things 2:05:43.440 --> 2:05:45.360 it's not really viable to base a business off of. 2:05:45.480 --> 2:05:47.880 But like, they keep trying to find new ways to 2:05:47.960 --> 2:05:50.680 stick computers in my house, and I don't know, does 2:05:50.720 --> 2:05:52.440 anyone else have anything they want out of a fucking 2:05:52.520 --> 2:05:53.040 smart home? 2:05:53.320 --> 2:05:53.360 No? 2:05:53.560 --> 2:05:55.880 I mean, I like, it's not an accident that my 2:05:56.040 --> 2:05:58.440 apartment is basically going to be in the year two 2:05:58.440 --> 2:06:01.280 thousand and five forever means it's expensive to do all 2:06:01.320 --> 2:06:03.240 this stuff. This is the bit thatit with so many 2:06:03.280 --> 2:06:06.120 of these demos, like just you start to notice how 2:06:06.600 --> 2:06:09.840 incredibly grandiose the residences in which all of this stuff 2:06:09.920 --> 2:06:12.760 is being sort of like postulated as being useful. Is 2:06:12.840 --> 2:06:17.160 It's like the like Lexus December to remember sales event 2:06:17.280 --> 2:06:18.240 type energy just a. 2:06:18.280 --> 2:06:19.920 Big fuck what lives do you live? 2:06:20.040 --> 2:06:20.240 Yeah? 2:06:20.400 --> 2:06:23.360 This also we've talked about this on Ed's show that 2:06:23.520 --> 2:06:25.160 like there's a lot of stuff here that feels like 2:06:25.440 --> 2:06:28.000 like the first fifteen minutes of a George Romero movie, 2:06:28.200 --> 2:06:30.720 like just getting you set for Eventually there's going to 2:06:30.720 --> 2:06:32.880 be a lot of like, you know, disembowelings and hideous 2:06:32.880 --> 2:06:36.240 shambling zombies. Yeah, and smart home not a bad horror 2:06:36.320 --> 2:06:39.640 movie concept. I don't think it's a great consumer concept. 2:06:39.800 --> 2:06:44.160 Yeah, speaking of great consumer concepts, the ads for this podcast. 2:06:54.280 --> 2:06:56.120 All right, we're back, and I want to close this 2:06:56.240 --> 2:06:58.960 out by asking everybody a question, which is, how do 2:06:59.000 --> 2:07:00.960 you feel about where tech is going? 2:07:02.600 --> 2:07:05.240 I think we're going to hell. I think we are 2:07:05.440 --> 2:07:09.839 getting wrapped it up very fast into the sweet abyss. 2:07:10.640 --> 2:07:14.120 I'm worried about the fact that so much of the 2:07:14.280 --> 2:07:19.600 tech is oriented around surveillance, around precursor forms of prepping, 2:07:20.440 --> 2:07:26.480 around very soft forms of like perfection and optimization that 2:07:26.800 --> 2:07:30.360 rhyme with eugenics. I'm like, I don't like the direction 2:07:30.480 --> 2:07:33.960 that a lot of this stuff is going, but also 2:07:34.040 --> 2:07:35.840 there I don't know what to do about it because 2:07:35.840 --> 2:07:39.240 so much of it is driven by private interest, right, 2:07:39.320 --> 2:07:44.960 It's like venture capitalists, well capitalized individuals and firms that 2:07:45.040 --> 2:07:47.760 they're connected to decide what we get to get pushed 2:07:48.040 --> 2:07:49.280 and these corporations, you. 2:07:49.320 --> 2:07:52.040 Know, yeah, the nature of like you can you can 2:07:52.080 --> 2:07:54.920 really tell that a lot of like the health products 2:07:54.960 --> 2:07:58.720 are very optimized for like rich tech executives. Like there's 2:07:58.720 --> 2:08:00.560 a lot of sleep products that are relied on you 2:08:00.680 --> 2:08:03.839 being willing to like bathe yourself in speakers, playing benaural 2:08:03.920 --> 2:08:07.040 beats while you slept, and like at different devices measure 2:08:07.080 --> 2:08:09.080 You're like do an ECG and it's like I don't know, 2:08:09.640 --> 2:08:11.280 my aunt's not going to do that. 2:08:11.560 --> 2:08:13.560 Oh yeah, you know, like I was, you know, I was. 2:08:13.880 --> 2:08:15.160 I took with my partner about this. 2:08:15.200 --> 2:08:17.200 They have type one diabetes, they have a CGM, they 2:08:17.360 --> 2:08:19.480 use it constantly, and they're We've been talking about and 2:08:19.560 --> 2:08:22.120 thinking about writing about how there's been a crop of 2:08:22.280 --> 2:08:24.560 devices that are like trying to push onto this idea 2:08:24.640 --> 2:08:28.160 that you need to have close monitoring of it to 2:08:28.640 --> 2:08:31.400 preempt if you are going to be prediabetic, or to 2:08:31.480 --> 2:08:33.760 optimize what you're eating throughout the day, but that you know, 2:08:34.280 --> 2:08:36.640 when you actually dig into what they're doing, it's like 2:08:37.280 --> 2:08:40.320 part of this track of rhetoric where it's like, wow, 2:08:40.480 --> 2:08:42.800 you know, if you're sugar slightly goes out, it's because 2:08:42.800 --> 2:08:44.600 you're being a bad person. It's because you're eating the 2:08:44.680 --> 2:08:46.920 way that you shouldn't. It's because there's a moral failing 2:08:47.040 --> 2:08:49.640 or character failing there that this tech can help purify 2:08:49.760 --> 2:08:51.440 you of and you can be your best self, which 2:08:51.480 --> 2:08:52.960 is really just like not. 2:08:53.640 --> 2:08:54.320 Large, you know. 2:08:54.560 --> 2:08:59.280 And I feel that sort of rhetoric lurking behind a 2:08:59.360 --> 2:09:02.920 lot of the bi metric surveillance stuff, even though there 2:09:02.960 --> 2:09:04.080 are applications that are not that. 2:09:04.400 --> 2:09:06.880 Yeah, you know, it's kind of focused on like the sin, 2:09:07.080 --> 2:09:09.400 the health sins that you're committing. We spend a decent 2:09:09.440 --> 2:09:11.440 amount of this week hanging out with a Catholic priest, 2:09:11.520 --> 2:09:13.960 and I do feel like several tech companies were the 2:09:14.000 --> 2:09:18.720 ones trying to sell us indulgences, right, yeah, yeah, all 2:09:18.800 --> 2:09:19.200 right gear. 2:09:20.080 --> 2:09:23.200 There's small improvements for consumer tech. 2:09:23.360 --> 2:09:23.480 Right. 2:09:23.600 --> 2:09:25.840 This is a very consumer based where it's supposed to 2:09:25.880 --> 2:09:28.920 be a consumer based tech show. There's products like the 2:09:29.000 --> 2:09:32.520 Shocks headphones, which every year get a little bit better. 2:09:32.960 --> 2:09:36.040 I try to bone conducting headphones last year, which are 2:09:36.480 --> 2:09:38.120 very good. They work underwater. 2:09:38.360 --> 2:09:40.160 If you're deaf in an ear you can listen to 2:09:40.240 --> 2:09:41.960 your music the way you used to be able to. 2:09:42.080 --> 2:09:44.880 Yeah, very cool stuff. This year they have what they 2:09:44.960 --> 2:09:47.960 called air conductive. I don't quite know how it works, 2:09:48.320 --> 2:09:50.240 but it does work. I can hear it if you're 2:09:50.240 --> 2:09:52.600 standing like two three feet away. There's no sound bleed, 2:09:52.880 --> 2:09:54.920 but I hear music in the middle of my head 2:09:55.280 --> 2:09:57.520 despite having to not put an earbud actually like in 2:09:57.680 --> 2:10:02.520 my ear. They're super useful, work, great, really good sound quality, durable. 2:10:02.560 --> 2:10:04.280 I'm on year two of the same pair that I 2:10:04.400 --> 2:10:08.240 run with every single day, like sweat rain. Great products. 2:10:08.240 --> 2:10:11.720 It's like small improvements, right, It's not it's not necessarily 2:10:11.800 --> 2:10:16.000 like revolutionizing hearing, but it's it's very very small improvements. 2:10:16.440 --> 2:10:19.520 Where as the other kind of big, big trend, which 2:10:19.560 --> 2:10:22.400 isn't necessarily like holly consumer based. It's kind of what 2:10:22.480 --> 2:10:25.480 these larger companies are trying to move towards is I 2:10:25.560 --> 2:10:32.240 feel like they're trying to replace friendship with this form 2:10:32.320 --> 2:10:35.880 of like technology and like AI enable technology. You used 2:10:35.880 --> 2:10:38.080 to have friends to get recommended new music. You used 2:10:38.080 --> 2:10:40.160 to have like friends to like tell you about new 2:10:40.240 --> 2:10:43.480 stuff that they're interested in. No longer. Now you have 2:10:43.520 --> 2:10:45.480 an AI agent that can do that for you. You 2:10:45.720 --> 2:10:48.800 you don't need you don't need friends to help kind 2:10:48.800 --> 2:10:52.880 of talk about, you know, you had a rough breakup. Instead, 2:10:52.920 --> 2:10:56.040 you can have a short term replacement. Using AI, you 2:10:56.120 --> 2:10:59.640 could have a friend replacement of a girlfriend replacement. It's 2:10:59.680 --> 2:11:02.120 all these things are trying to replace the core concept 2:11:02.160 --> 2:11:05.160 of friendship, even as like as even as like a baby, 2:11:05.240 --> 2:11:07.920 even as a toddler. Your first friend doesn't need to 2:11:07.960 --> 2:11:10.000 be people you meet outside. It can be this little 2:11:10.080 --> 2:11:12.640 hovering robot you have in the living room that can 2:11:12.680 --> 2:11:15.520 also organize your fridge, tell you what to tell you what. 2:11:17.320 --> 2:11:18.840 We'll roll around your house in the middle of the 2:11:18.920 --> 2:11:21.880 night with cameras, and that could be your first friend. 2:11:22.560 --> 2:11:25.760 It's replacing the core concept of friendship. It's this move 2:11:25.840 --> 2:11:29.800 towards complete optimization of every aspect of human life. Because 2:11:29.800 --> 2:11:32.280 as smooth as possible, that completely ignores like what it 2:11:32.360 --> 2:11:33.040 means to be human. 2:11:33.120 --> 2:11:36.600 It's the fascinating difference between that elder care robot elie Q, 2:11:36.840 --> 2:11:38.920 which was clearly a man with a tremendous amount of 2:11:38.960 --> 2:11:41.440 empathy trying to design a device to help people, and 2:11:41.520 --> 2:11:43.520 what I usually see with AI, which is trying to 2:11:43.600 --> 2:11:47.120 design a device to remove the need for human empathy. 2:11:47.600 --> 2:11:49.480 Like I went to a there was a vet app 2:11:49.600 --> 2:11:53.120 called Laika that's like chat GPT for veterinarians, and they 2:11:53.160 --> 2:11:54.640 were like, yeah, you know what, most of it we 2:11:54.760 --> 2:11:57.400 focused initially on like technical questions, so like if I 2:11:57.440 --> 2:12:00.480 have these symptoms, what can that mean? But that's asking 2:12:00.600 --> 2:12:02.240 us is like we would really like advice on how 2:12:02.280 --> 2:12:04.200 to talk to people that their pets are going to die? 2:12:04.720 --> 2:12:07.160 And I was like, do you are Vett's not getting 2:12:07.200 --> 2:12:09.840 out of that school, because that's like that's a big 2:12:09.960 --> 2:12:12.480 part of being an a vet, Like do they need 2:12:12.600 --> 2:12:13.680 chet GPT for this? 2:12:13.960 --> 2:12:16.640 I saw this other company that was like it was 2:12:16.680 --> 2:12:19.680 designed to help you get over the loss of your pet, 2:12:20.000 --> 2:12:22.120 where you could you could pump tons of photos of 2:12:22.160 --> 2:12:26.040 your pet into this AI into this AI generator and 2:12:26.320 --> 2:12:29.440 it will generate new images and this is proven to 2:12:29.480 --> 2:12:32.400 help you move on from loss, which is literally a 2:12:32.520 --> 2:12:37.680 Nathan Fielder joke from like seven years ago, seven years ago, 2:12:37.960 --> 2:12:40.880 and like, no, you should talk with your friends about that. 2:12:41.080 --> 2:12:43.400 That's why you are a human. That's how you can 2:12:43.480 --> 2:12:46.720 move on from loss. You have to make new connections. 2:12:47.360 --> 2:12:50.760 Poorly AI generated images of your cat aren't going to 2:12:50.840 --> 2:12:56.680 help you move on, Like what why? Anyway, Replacing friendship 2:12:56.800 --> 2:12:58.040 is the thing that I see a lot of the 2:12:58.120 --> 2:13:00.600 tech world wanting to do, maybe because they don't understand 2:13:00.680 --> 2:13:05.680 real human relationships that aren't like innately transactional. I'm not sure, 2:13:05.800 --> 2:13:08.040 but that is like a huge trend that I've seen 2:13:08.080 --> 2:13:09.280 multiple multiple people mention. 2:13:09.760 --> 2:13:13.440 All right, Zi, So I've worked in this industry for 2:13:13.680 --> 2:13:17.200 like three years now and this is my first big convention, 2:13:18.080 --> 2:13:21.120 and I would say, uh, this is just affirmed pretty 2:13:21.160 --> 2:13:24.360 much all of my disillusions with the tech world, and 2:13:25.280 --> 2:13:29.880 most of it's just nonsense. And maybe the postive people 2:13:29.920 --> 2:13:30.880 are onto some stuff. 2:13:32.640 --> 2:13:34.920 Well you say that, but I really do think via 2:13:35.000 --> 2:13:38.560 dox is kind of revolutionize the way in which mysterious 2:13:38.640 --> 2:13:43.480 fogs kill large numbers of the Maybe, but don't name 2:13:43.560 --> 2:13:46.320 it something so sinister. Yeah, yeah, it's if you were 2:13:46.360 --> 2:13:47.720 to be like this is the thing that keeps your 2:13:47.760 --> 2:13:49.720 apples fresh for a long time. That would be great. 2:13:49.760 --> 2:13:51.840 I would just don't call it apple fresh, yes, but 2:13:51.960 --> 2:13:52.840 call it apple fresh. 2:13:53.920 --> 2:13:55.520 By the way, you should listen to You should listen 2:13:55.520 --> 2:13:58.760 to Better Offline to hear context for veradox, which we 2:13:58.840 --> 2:14:01.240 discussed in the last episode of our daily Cees coverage 2:14:01.320 --> 2:14:05.240 over there with the wonderful Edixitron. But essentially baradox is 2:14:05.280 --> 2:14:09.320 this missed. They get sprayed on produce, which allegedly helps 2:14:09.400 --> 2:14:12.120 it stay shelf stable for a few more days. 2:14:14.360 --> 2:14:17.919 Exactly. So maybe that shelf stable mist will also translate 2:14:17.960 --> 2:14:18.640 to waking. 2:14:18.480 --> 2:14:21.040 Up the dead possibly, But you don't know that it's 2:14:21.160 --> 2:14:22.600 gonna do You don't know that it's not going to 2:14:22.640 --> 2:14:23.320 do that, right right. 2:14:25.440 --> 2:14:28.160 As a journalist, that's sorry, you have to ask these questions. 2:14:28.240 --> 2:14:31.200 And we discussed that way more in depth on Better Offline. 2:14:31.280 --> 2:14:33.640 Yeah, we do discuss whether the ability to bring red 2:14:33.720 --> 2:14:36.720 leaf led us back to life does have any repercussions 2:14:37.160 --> 2:14:40.080 in a pet cemetery sort of way for your possibly 2:14:40.120 --> 2:14:40.720 dead loved ones. 2:14:41.840 --> 2:14:45.080 David, it's me sorry. A lot of good points. 2:14:45.160 --> 2:14:47.480 I mean, I think garyin ever both made the point 2:14:47.520 --> 2:14:51.520 about the sort of sociopathic like thread of a lot 2:14:51.560 --> 2:14:53.640 of this just sort of like an inability to understand 2:14:53.720 --> 2:14:57.520 not just what people might want from a technology, I think, 2:14:57.560 --> 2:15:00.400 which is to fuel not I mean, they're probably our people. 2:15:00.440 --> 2:15:02.000 I imagine that. It's like if you were the guy, 2:15:02.280 --> 2:15:05.120 the dude that's like trying to age himself backwards. You know, 2:15:05.320 --> 2:15:08.360 he's like Brian Johnson. Brian Johnson. We love Brian's. 2:15:09.480 --> 2:15:12.160 Yeah, but he like I feel like he would have 2:15:12.240 --> 2:15:15.600 been walking through this clapping his hands with delight. 2:15:17.680 --> 2:15:21.480 A day, drinking his son's blood time for Yeah, it's a. 2:15:21.600 --> 2:15:25.320 It's I drink his son's blood pretty rights and it's 2:15:25.360 --> 2:15:25.800 not bad. 2:15:25.720 --> 2:15:28.840 The high quality plot, but that it felt like it 2:15:28.960 --> 2:15:30.440 was that that there was a lot of this sort 2:15:30.480 --> 2:15:35.600 of like an optimization onto like transcending being human at all. 2:15:35.760 --> 2:15:38.480 And I don't think I mean again, there probably are 2:15:38.520 --> 2:15:40.920 people that want that. They certainly have money. I don't 2:15:41.040 --> 2:15:45.160 imagine that. I think what most people would like. I mean, 2:15:45.200 --> 2:15:47.280 then you don't expect technology to make you feel more human. 2:15:47.480 --> 2:15:49.280 But something I've been thinking. 2:15:49.160 --> 2:15:52.000 About a lot. We're talking about this a lot on Better. 2:15:51.880 --> 2:15:55.640 Offline, But there's a passivity that a lot of this 2:15:56.040 --> 2:15:58.840 sort of seems to be forcing onto people where you're 2:15:58.880 --> 2:16:01.280 just like sort of are happening to you that make 2:16:01.320 --> 2:16:03.200 your life more efficient and convenient. 2:16:03.320 --> 2:16:05.640 And I don't think that I want that. 2:16:06.280 --> 2:16:08.840 I mean, I'm older than and poorer than the you 2:16:08.920 --> 2:16:11.600 know market that I think they're aiming for with this, 2:16:11.760 --> 2:16:14.680 But it's certainly old enough to remember, as you said, 2:16:14.760 --> 2:16:17.600 like finding music, like that's a thing that yeah, you know, 2:16:17.680 --> 2:16:19.400 your friends tell you about it. And in my case, 2:16:19.400 --> 2:16:22.760 I mean again just being in my middle age, you 2:16:22.880 --> 2:16:24.440 like go to a store and you flip through shit, 2:16:24.560 --> 2:16:28.240 like there's a distinction between finding something and being given 2:16:28.440 --> 2:16:30.720 something or being fed to something like you're a foa 2:16:30.800 --> 2:16:33.440 grag goose and it's just getting sort of piped into 2:16:33.480 --> 2:16:35.160 your brain and life and being. 2:16:35.520 --> 2:16:38.080 And I think it's an important distinction. I think that 2:16:38.240 --> 2:16:38.800 little bit of. 2:16:38.840 --> 2:16:42.200 Agency of having some sense of doing the things that 2:16:42.320 --> 2:16:45.160 you want to do, like I would imagine that, well, 2:16:45.240 --> 2:16:47.480 I don't have to imagine it technology that helps you 2:16:47.600 --> 2:16:49.560 do that as opposed to doing it for you. 2:16:49.720 --> 2:16:50.120 I think that. 2:16:51.800 --> 2:16:53.880 I don't want stuff that makes me feel less human. 2:16:54.080 --> 2:16:55.880 I don't want stuff that makes me feel more like 2:16:56.080 --> 2:16:58.440 I'm in a fucking matrix pod and I think that 2:16:59.680 --> 2:17:01.720 a lot of the stuff that was out there seemed 2:17:01.800 --> 2:17:02.720 targeted towards the. 2:17:04.200 --> 2:17:07.720 Matrix pod dwelling community. I think that's that's about the 2:17:07.760 --> 2:17:11.360 best line we could go out on, like, that's that's yeah, 2:17:11.640 --> 2:17:12.120 you nailed it. 2:17:12.200 --> 2:17:12.400 Thanks. 2:17:12.440 --> 2:17:14.360 I thought I crushed that one. Yeah you did. You did, 2:17:14.760 --> 2:17:18.160 great job, Dave. Where can people find your workday defector 2:17:18.240 --> 2:17:21.080 dot com? Why let me do that without crushing my water? No, no, no, no, 2:17:21.200 --> 2:17:21.680 that's okay. 2:17:21.959 --> 2:17:22.080 Let me. 2:17:22.280 --> 2:17:25.320 That's a load bearing piece of content. Defector dot com 2:17:25.440 --> 2:17:26.959 is the website and at. 2:17:27.280 --> 2:17:30.720 Big black Jack a bit on Twitter and Blue Sky. 2:17:31.080 --> 2:17:33.920 This Machine Kills is my podcast. Tech Bubble dot Soapstack 2:17:33.959 --> 2:17:35.320 dot com is the newsletter. 2:17:35.800 --> 2:17:38.520 Hell yeah, do you want to tell people how to 2:17:38.600 --> 2:17:38.920 find you? 2:17:39.600 --> 2:17:43.759 Zi hat new old woman on Twitter with okay zeros. 2:17:44.879 --> 2:17:45.920 Zeros for neo. 2:17:45.959 --> 2:17:48.720 Zeros, All right, everybody, Well, uh, that's going to do 2:17:48.800 --> 2:17:50.680 it for us here at It could happen here and 2:17:50.800 --> 2:17:53.160 are week at cees. You know, just try to hub 2:17:53.280 --> 2:17:55.879 hug your loved ones until the Viera ox sweeps through 2:17:56.160 --> 2:18:00.520 all of their homes neighborhoods. Yeah, it's in the room, 2:18:00.600 --> 2:18:01.200 It's in the room. 2:18:16.200 --> 2:18:19.160 Welcome to ninkadappan here a podcast about things falling apart, 2:18:19.240 --> 2:18:21.480 how to put them back together again. I am your host, 2:18:21.560 --> 2:18:26.120 Mia Long Return for the holidays, Returned, rejuvenated, returned, refreshed, 2:18:26.920 --> 2:18:29.280 Return to do something a little bit different. 2:18:30.080 --> 2:18:31.000 In the coming weeks. 2:18:31.080 --> 2:18:32.720 We're going to be doing a lot of nitty gritty 2:18:32.720 --> 2:18:34.600 analysis of the coming wave of fascism. 2:18:35.000 --> 2:18:38.039 But what we haven't really been doing as much. 2:18:38.160 --> 2:18:39.879 What I want to take some time to do today 2:18:40.120 --> 2:18:43.360 is to talk about fascism atic sort of macro level 2:18:43.480 --> 2:18:46.640 and what it looks like right now, and also talk 2:18:46.800 --> 2:18:49.480 about an extremely cooked guy. 2:18:49.480 --> 2:18:54.199 Who blew himself up in a cyb outside of Trump Building, 2:18:55.720 --> 2:19:01.600 and with me to talk about this is writer, organizer, agitator, 2:19:01.800 --> 2:19:06.080 doer of so many different things that like, I don't 2:19:06.080 --> 2:19:08.440 know someone's going to write a great biography in like 2:19:08.800 --> 2:19:09.680 one hundred years. 2:19:09.959 --> 2:19:10.200 It is. 2:19:10.280 --> 2:19:12.040 It is the one and only Vicky Oshtawhile. 2:19:13.360 --> 2:19:13.680 Thank you. 2:19:14.560 --> 2:19:16.760 Sorry, I couldn't keep the giggle down long enough for 2:19:16.840 --> 2:19:19.120 you to get to the intro before you're you find 2:19:19.160 --> 2:19:19.880 people could hear me. 2:19:22.280 --> 2:19:23.600 Oh, I'm glad to have you here. 2:19:23.720 --> 2:19:27.160 And part part of this the initial thing that was like, okay, 2:19:27.200 --> 2:19:30.000 we need to do this was I saw you called 2:19:30.160 --> 2:19:33.840 all of this the years of lead paint, and that 2:19:34.080 --> 2:19:36.680 is just it has stuck in my mind every for 2:19:36.800 --> 2:19:39.080 every single second of every day since then. 2:19:40.080 --> 2:19:43.320 Yeah, yeah, I was writing for the journal that I 2:19:43.360 --> 2:19:45.600 am working and fundraising for CA Go chext us out, 2:19:45.800 --> 2:19:48.760 but I wrote a piece about how unpleasant the cyberpunk 2:19:48.800 --> 2:19:51.720 dystopia is in the face of you know, that sort 2:19:51.720 --> 2:19:54.080 of that image of the cyber truck on fire outside 2:19:54.080 --> 2:19:56.680 the Trump Hotel. Then about you know, as we were 2:19:56.760 --> 2:19:58.960 about to talk about Matthew Livelsburger, I think is how 2:19:58.959 --> 2:20:03.080 it's pronounced, who's the green beret? Then big Trump fan 2:20:03.280 --> 2:20:06.040 who thought blowing up a cyber trunk outside of the 2:20:06.080 --> 2:20:08.600 Trump Hotel would start not a race war, but like 2:20:08.760 --> 2:20:10.320 the purging of democratic politicians. 2:20:10.400 --> 2:20:12.920 Is that what we think his yeah, version was, Now 2:20:13.080 --> 2:20:17.120 that seems to be it like politicians, and like it's 2:20:17.200 --> 2:20:19.160 kind of an evolution of the like purge the deep 2:20:19.240 --> 2:20:21.480 state thing where he wants democrats gone from like the 2:20:21.720 --> 2:20:24.879 army and right right, you know, so it's the kind 2:20:24.920 --> 2:20:28.560 of more generic version of like the sort of Nazi 2:20:28.640 --> 2:20:30.320 fantasy of the day of the rope from the Turner 2:20:30.400 --> 2:20:32.800 Diaries is kind of like metastasized into all this right 2:20:32.840 --> 2:20:34.960 wing culture where they have their own sort of like 2:20:35.560 --> 2:20:40.120 less race worry or like less anti Semitic versions of it. Yes, 2:20:40.360 --> 2:20:43.560 and that's apparently what this guy was trying to start 2:20:43.680 --> 2:20:46.440 off by exactly blowing himself up with a. 2:20:46.480 --> 2:20:48.800 Truck full of fireworks in front of a Trump. 2:20:50.080 --> 2:20:53.160 So basically, this guy that the spaping a Green Beret, which, 2:20:53.280 --> 2:20:55.880 like say what you will, arguably some of the most 2:20:56.160 --> 2:20:59.320 trained and experienced murderers in the world, you know, whatever 2:20:59.360 --> 2:21:01.039 else you say about and this is important. 2:21:01.080 --> 2:21:04.040 You know, I'm not sure there's any capacity drop in 2:21:04.120 --> 2:21:06.600 the world that is greater than the drop from like 2:21:06.800 --> 2:21:09.240 green Beret to like former Green Beret. 2:21:09.400 --> 2:21:13.400 This guy was active duty, so like right, yes, yes, yes, exactly. 2:21:14.120 --> 2:21:15.480 This wasn't even like a cooked vet. 2:21:15.560 --> 2:21:17.520 This is a guy who is like in the shit 2:21:18.240 --> 2:21:20.320 and we know that he was drinking the kool aid 2:21:20.320 --> 2:21:21.520 because he used chat GPT. 2:21:22.040 --> 2:21:24.360 He've just turned out today to help plan his attack. 2:21:24.800 --> 2:21:30.560 But unfortunately, despite his murder expertise which undeniable, cyber truck, 2:21:30.680 --> 2:21:33.640 like all Tesla's, is designed mostly to endanger the people 2:21:33.680 --> 2:21:38.400 inside it because they won't sue Tesla because they're already 2:21:38.640 --> 2:21:41.200 huge super fans, And what I really mean, of course, 2:21:41.280 --> 2:21:43.840 is that they have terrible safety protocols. And the cyber truck, 2:21:44.280 --> 2:21:45.960 which is like a twelve year old's idea of a 2:21:46.040 --> 2:21:49.800 good idea, which is an incredibly incredibly firm, stainless steel 2:21:49.879 --> 2:21:52.760 body which does not crumple and does not take damage, 2:21:53.120 --> 2:21:57.200 which means that your frail human body inside it in 2:21:57.280 --> 2:22:00.400 an accident bashes against a wall of steel metal, very 2:22:00.560 --> 2:22:04.520 dangerous to be inside. But the car doesn't take damage, 2:22:04.760 --> 2:22:06.520 and that means that if you leave a bomb in it, 2:22:07.280 --> 2:22:09.960 the sides of the car were fine, so the explosion 2:22:10.000 --> 2:22:12.680 went straight up right, so it did no damage to 2:22:12.720 --> 2:22:14.440 the hotel. It's not clear if he intended that, but 2:22:14.520 --> 2:22:16.080 it seems like he probably wanted to do a. 2:22:16.040 --> 2:22:17.080 Little damage at the hotel. 2:22:17.400 --> 2:22:20.520 Most people who are doing suicide bombings want that, I 2:22:20.560 --> 2:22:25.600 would imagine. So anyway, all this is to say, you 2:22:25.680 --> 2:22:27.879 know this guy who's like an active duty green beret 2:22:27.959 --> 2:22:30.280 who believes for some reason that attacking a Trump hotel 2:22:30.480 --> 2:22:33.400 in an elon musk car will somehow lead to the 2:22:33.480 --> 2:22:37.560 murder of Democrats. But he's so tech pilled that he 2:22:37.680 --> 2:22:40.240 takes a cyber truck, which doesn't even work as a 2:22:40.320 --> 2:22:43.720 bomb and dies in it and just leaves this like 2:22:44.120 --> 2:22:46.560 horrible image. And I mean, you know, I'm being flippant 2:22:46.560 --> 2:22:48.760 about this, Like it's awful thing obviously, but no one 2:22:48.800 --> 2:22:50.880 else was hurt except himself. I mean, the image was 2:22:50.920 --> 2:22:53.240 everywhere on social media for like the last three days 2:22:53.280 --> 2:22:55.160 of that of that cyber truck on fire outside of 2:22:55.160 --> 2:22:57.960 the Trump towers. Yeah, it was the perfect image of 2:22:58.000 --> 2:22:59.520 a thing I had already been thinking of as the 2:22:59.600 --> 2:23:01.920 years of life. So I wrote an essay around that basically. 2:23:03.080 --> 2:23:05.600 Yeah, So I want to start talking about this by 2:23:05.680 --> 2:23:07.760 getting a little bit into what the years of lead are, 2:23:07.879 --> 2:23:11.760 because I imagine it's some of you, like there's probably, 2:23:11.959 --> 2:23:14.360 like I don't know, there's probably several thousand of you 2:23:14.480 --> 2:23:17.000 who are obsessive nerds about the years of lead and 2:23:17.240 --> 2:23:19.320 like know the name of every single guy he was 2:23:19.400 --> 2:23:23.360 implicated for these car bombings, but for everyone else who's normal. 2:23:23.560 --> 2:23:25.800 And I caught myself among the non normal people because 2:23:25.800 --> 2:23:27.880 I did. I spent about two years going down the 2:23:27.959 --> 2:23:30.440 years of lead rabbit hole and destroyed my brain. But 2:23:30.640 --> 2:23:33.600 the years of lead were this thing in roughly the 2:23:33.680 --> 2:23:36.960 seventies and the eighties, in Italy, where as a response 2:23:37.160 --> 2:23:39.280 to the sort of rising power of the left through 2:23:39.320 --> 2:23:41.880 the sixties, and like the giant uprising is ninety sixty eight. 2:23:42.080 --> 2:23:44.080 And Italy's kind of different from the rest of Europe 2:23:44.120 --> 2:23:47.440 because in Italy, you know, like in France, for example, 2:23:47.480 --> 2:23:49.400 France has this huge up rising in May sixty eight, 2:23:49.440 --> 2:23:51.760 like they nearly knock off the government, like workers councils 2:23:51.800 --> 2:23:54.360 have seized control of the factories, like they lose this 2:23:54.440 --> 2:23:56.400 our bottle, Like there's you know, the president's like fleeing 2:23:56.400 --> 2:23:59.600 at a helicopter. But then after that, like they kind 2:23:59.640 --> 2:24:03.800 of never seriously threatened the French government. Again in Italy, 2:24:03.879 --> 2:24:05.000 that is not true. 2:24:05.000 --> 2:24:05.680 Like sixty eight. 2:24:05.760 --> 2:24:07.840 In Italy, there's a very similar thing going on, but 2:24:07.879 --> 2:24:09.400 like the seizure of the factories has been going on 2:24:09.680 --> 2:24:11.879 since Like I mean, stuff like this has been happening 2:24:11.879 --> 2:24:15.480 since the fifties, and it really only stops in nineteen 2:24:15.480 --> 2:24:17.720 seventy seven when like they have one last big push 2:24:17.800 --> 2:24:20.880 uprising and it fails. So as a way to contain this, 2:24:21.000 --> 2:24:25.800 the Italian government develops this strategy of backing right wing 2:24:25.920 --> 2:24:28.720 terror groups and then also orchestrating left wing terror groups 2:24:28.720 --> 2:24:30.640 and by terror groups I mean, like the most famous 2:24:30.920 --> 2:24:32.680 thing in this is called the Bolognia train bombing in 2:24:32.720 --> 2:24:36.360 nineteen eighty. It kills eighty five people, wounds like two 2:24:36.520 --> 2:24:40.200 hundred and ninety. Like it's a really really horrific attack, 2:24:40.200 --> 2:24:42.039 and it's immediately blamed that an anarchist group. It turns 2:24:42.080 --> 2:24:43.760 out it's not an anarchist group. It is a state 2:24:43.840 --> 2:24:47.039 back like fascist group. And yeah, like there are other 2:24:47.120 --> 2:24:49.240 ones I will pass over to VICTI you talk about, 2:24:49.280 --> 2:24:52.080 like the other terrible shit that they did. 2:24:52.440 --> 2:24:55.039 Well, that bombing kind of ends in some ways ends 2:24:55.080 --> 2:24:57.000 the years of lad you could end it there. 2:24:57.040 --> 2:24:58.520 It's sort of the last big terrorist month. 2:24:58.920 --> 2:25:01.000 The first thing, the event that like sort of after 2:25:01.080 --> 2:25:02.760 sixty eight kind of starts at as this thing called 2:25:02.800 --> 2:25:06.400 the Piazza Fontana bonding in Milan, which is like an 2:25:06.480 --> 2:25:08.920 agriculture bank, I think is what it's called. It's just 2:25:09.000 --> 2:25:11.760 like but seventeen people are killed, almost one hundred people 2:25:11.800 --> 2:25:13.920 are wounded, and the first thing that the police do 2:25:14.040 --> 2:25:16.680 is they blame anarchists in sixty eight as well, And 2:25:16.720 --> 2:25:18.880 there's a famous there's a famous case of this anarchist 2:25:19.000 --> 2:25:22.560 organizer named Pinelli who is arrested and then while he 2:25:22.720 --> 2:25:26.360 is under interrogation, falls out of the window of the 2:25:26.400 --> 2:25:27.800 police department to his death. 2:25:28.640 --> 2:25:28.840 Yep. 2:25:29.160 --> 2:25:31.640 It has still never been proven that he was pushed. 2:25:31.760 --> 2:25:35.760 The police claimed he've jumped out after they interrogated him 2:25:35.840 --> 2:25:36.320 really hard. 2:25:36.480 --> 2:25:36.680 Yeah. 2:25:36.760 --> 2:25:37.000 Sure. 2:25:37.160 --> 2:25:39.400 Oh Like here's a very famous Italian play about it 2:25:39.480 --> 2:25:42.039 by Dario Foe called the Death of an Anarchist. So anyways, 2:25:42.080 --> 2:25:44.720 they blame the anarchists, They literally murder a leading anarchist 2:25:44.920 --> 2:25:47.800 printer and organizer, and then of course it turns out 2:25:47.800 --> 2:25:50.720 that it was this terrorist group called ordinay Nuovo, who was, 2:25:50.920 --> 2:25:52.959 you know, this neo fascist group that had let's say 2:25:53.080 --> 2:25:56.600 significant overlap with parts of the Italian state. And I 2:25:56.680 --> 2:25:58.760 think like one way of understanding the years of Lead, 2:25:58.840 --> 2:26:00.800 I think that might be easy forople who aren't familiar 2:26:00.879 --> 2:26:02.840 with it, is that it's it's like a very low 2:26:02.959 --> 2:26:05.520 level civil war. It's it's I think the closest thing 2:26:05.560 --> 2:26:08.680 we can maybe think of as the troubles in Northern Ireland. Yeah, 2:26:08.800 --> 2:26:10.600 and the reason those were a little different was because 2:26:10.600 --> 2:26:12.840 a lot of those attacks were happening in England, whereas 2:26:12.959 --> 2:26:14.600 like the you know, the movement was in Ireland. But 2:26:15.040 --> 2:26:18.560 this is very similar, which is like there's these armed wings, 2:26:19.040 --> 2:26:20.680 both on the right and the left that are like 2:26:21.320 --> 2:26:24.119 both meeting in combat and sort of fighting each other. 2:26:24.320 --> 2:26:27.640 But in this instance, rather than a colonial occupation that 2:26:27.640 --> 2:26:32.000 they're fighting against, the Italian government was literally both paying 2:26:32.120 --> 2:26:35.000 for arming the fascists and instructing them to frame the 2:26:35.080 --> 2:26:35.960 left for these attacks. 2:26:36.160 --> 2:26:38.200 Yeah, and there's I mean, there's other stuff too. We're 2:26:38.240 --> 2:26:40.320 not going to get into the kidnapping of Aldo Moro here. 2:26:40.600 --> 2:26:43.320 I have explained this on the show at some point. 2:26:43.400 --> 2:26:43.960 I think it's in. 2:26:44.240 --> 2:26:45.640 I think it's in if you go to the Hall 2:26:45.640 --> 2:26:47.720 of Weed episode we did where we talk about conspiracies. 2:26:47.720 --> 2:26:50.920 I've explained that whole thing. But like the goal of this, right, 2:26:51.160 --> 2:26:53.200 the reason that you know, they're they're giving all of 2:26:53.240 --> 2:26:55.520 these weapons to these like stay behind networks, so it's 2:26:55.520 --> 2:26:57.760 designed to like fight a Soviet invasion and like and 2:26:57.879 --> 2:27:01.400 having all these bombings was specifically something they call the 2:27:01.400 --> 2:27:04.800 strategy of tension, which is a strategy of promoting sort 2:27:04.840 --> 2:27:08.240 of mass violence and promoting terror as a strategy to 2:27:08.360 --> 2:27:11.120 drive people back towards the state. Because the idea was 2:27:11.160 --> 2:27:13.200 and this and this seems to have worked. You know, 2:27:13.360 --> 2:27:15.480 you scare people enough by the fact that there's you know, 2:27:15.520 --> 2:27:17.560 there's bombs going off all the time, people are getting killed, 2:27:17.560 --> 2:27:19.800 people are getting kidnapped, There's all of this just like 2:27:20.120 --> 2:27:23.960 horror happening, and the goal is to get people to 2:27:24.040 --> 2:27:26.039 turn to the state for you know, sort of order 2:27:26.120 --> 2:27:28.760 insecurity and like stop doing all of this uprising stuff 2:27:28.800 --> 2:27:30.280 because we need you know, we need to sort of 2:27:30.360 --> 2:27:30.920 terror to end. 2:27:31.959 --> 2:27:32.879 And it was. 2:27:32.879 --> 2:27:35.880 Extremely effective, and the sort of knowledge of this has 2:27:36.160 --> 2:27:38.680 I guess proliferated through the American left in the last 2:27:39.600 --> 2:27:43.040 like decade, and that has led to a lot of 2:27:44.360 --> 2:27:47.680 I think kind of unhelpful comparisons. You will hear people 2:27:47.760 --> 2:27:50.840 sometimes talk about like American Gladio, which is Gladio is 2:27:50.879 --> 2:27:52.840 those those state behind networks that were armed by the 2:27:52.920 --> 2:27:54.640 Italian state and used as sort of the basis of 2:27:54.680 --> 2:27:58.200 these neo fascist groups, and like to refer to this 2:27:58.280 --> 2:28:00.240 sort of like I don't like what's happening in the US, 2:28:00.240 --> 2:28:02.960 and that's not really what's happening. And this is where 2:28:02.959 --> 2:28:04.480 I want to pass it to VICKI to talk about 2:28:04.680 --> 2:28:07.039 sort of the characteristics of what we're calling the Years 2:28:07.080 --> 2:28:09.119 of Lead Paint and how they're sort of different from 2:28:09.160 --> 2:28:10.120 the Italian ones. 2:28:10.680 --> 2:28:15.240 Yeah, in classic American fashion. Everything is more chaotic and autonomous, yes, 2:28:15.959 --> 2:28:20.080 and widely proliferated and also widely proliferated all over America 2:28:20.440 --> 2:28:21.360 products and services. 2:28:21.680 --> 2:28:22.240 Did I do again? 2:28:22.360 --> 2:28:37.920 Let's support this podcast. That's a good one. We are back, 2:28:37.920 --> 2:28:39.640 all right, Years of Blood Paint. Let's go. 2:28:40.160 --> 2:28:42.840 Yes, Right, So I actually think, you know, as you 2:28:42.920 --> 2:28:45.080 were saying that, I think actually a thing that might 2:28:45.120 --> 2:28:47.840 be the closest to Gladio And it's not Gladio, because 2:28:47.879 --> 2:28:49.480 that was very conscious and it was like these stay 2:28:49.520 --> 2:28:53.520 behind networks are organized explicitly but the US state defense 2:28:53.760 --> 2:28:57.760 of the Second Amendment and of like assault rifle availability 2:28:57.920 --> 2:29:00.959 and making the US the sort of home for military 2:29:01.000 --> 2:29:04.200 surplus because obviously, like the military industrial complex sells lots 2:29:04.200 --> 2:29:06.600 of guns. It's a very helpful thing that producing a 2:29:06.680 --> 2:29:09.600 reign of mass shooters who also operate in a sort 2:29:09.640 --> 2:29:11.960 of Years of Lead terroristic sort of strategy of tension way, 2:29:12.280 --> 2:29:14.720 I think might actually be close. But you can tell 2:29:14.800 --> 2:29:17.800 that that's very disorganized. Yeah, it's very distributed through the 2:29:17.840 --> 2:29:21.920 social it's done by you know, volunteers, right. 2:29:22.320 --> 2:29:22.520 Yeah. 2:29:22.600 --> 2:29:24.320 And also the people who are doing the Years of 2:29:24.440 --> 2:29:27.520 Lead are unbelievably cynical about it right, Like they don't 2:29:27.600 --> 2:29:30.680 they don't believe any of this shit, right, yes, yes, 2:29:30.920 --> 2:29:33.320 no exactly, we're the Second Amendment guys. Like that stuff 2:29:33.360 --> 2:29:35.800 is driven a lot by sort of like hardline true 2:29:35.840 --> 2:29:39.120 believers who aren't trying to sort of like fuel a 2:29:39.160 --> 2:29:41.440 bunch of mass shooting to push people in towards extreme 2:29:41.520 --> 2:29:43.560 like increasingly right wing politics. That's sort of like not 2:29:44.640 --> 2:29:46.240 what they were trying to do, but that's sort of 2:29:46.280 --> 2:29:48.360 you know, that's the effect of a lot of this stuff. 2:29:48.720 --> 2:29:49.320 Yeah, it wasn't. 2:29:49.320 --> 2:29:51.400 It wasn't a conscious effort at all. But that's also 2:29:51.520 --> 2:29:53.560 not the years of lead paint. That's just like a 2:29:53.640 --> 2:29:57.560 similar thing, the years of lead paint, which is obviously 2:29:57.720 --> 2:30:00.480 like which is a joke about. There's this big reactionary 2:30:00.520 --> 2:30:02.960 myth from like the freakonomics guys. I think that like 2:30:03.040 --> 2:30:05.920 the rise in crimes like correlated to like the use 2:30:05.959 --> 2:30:08.080 of lead paint in children's bedrooms, which is. 2:30:08.080 --> 2:30:10.720 Really funny because for the freakonomics guy that that is 2:30:10.800 --> 2:30:14.920 a down right left wing theory standard. 2:30:14.560 --> 2:30:17.440 Yeah exactly, or maybe it was a dude directing it. 2:30:17.440 --> 2:30:20.640 I don't even remember now anyway, So it became it 2:30:20.680 --> 2:30:23.359 became a meme to like talk about sort of boomers 2:30:23.400 --> 2:30:26.400 and generation acts people you know, having the bled paint 2:30:26.480 --> 2:30:29.880 in their gasoline and in their walls cause all this stuff. 2:30:30.080 --> 2:30:33.520 Obviously I'm not advocating that kind of like ablest insult 2:30:33.560 --> 2:30:35.480 when I talk about this, and is a memetic way 2:30:35.480 --> 2:30:37.000 of making fun of that concept. 2:30:37.160 --> 2:30:40.480 But all of that to say, they. 2:30:40.440 --> 2:30:43.800 Have completely drunk the kool aid, right, the fascists, as 2:30:43.840 --> 2:30:45.600 you're saying, Yah, they knew what they were doing. They 2:30:45.680 --> 2:30:48.199 knew they were framing the left. They were like making 2:30:48.280 --> 2:30:50.440 it up. But like a lot of people on the 2:30:50.560 --> 2:30:52.880 right in Italy, yeah, yeah, in Italy, excuse me, in 2:30:52.879 --> 2:30:55.160 Italy in the sixties and in the actual years of lead, 2:30:55.400 --> 2:30:59.240 years of lead paint, you've got people genuinely probably believing 2:30:59.280 --> 2:31:03.240 that January was Antifah, like people whose friends were there, 2:31:03.879 --> 2:31:06.680 you know, yeah, like stuff like Q and the other 2:31:06.760 --> 2:31:08.440 thing that the reason that this is years of lead 2:31:08.480 --> 2:31:11.440 pain and not the first Trump administration is because during 2:31:11.480 --> 2:31:14.720 the first Trump administration there was actually pretty pretty well 2:31:14.840 --> 2:31:17.400 organized on the ground fascist movements and they could they 2:31:17.440 --> 2:31:19.440 could certainly come back in the US right now. 2:31:19.560 --> 2:31:21.040 There's no reason they couldn't. 2:31:21.200 --> 2:31:23.800 Yeah, And it's also worth talking about we'll be covering 2:31:23.879 --> 2:31:26.360 this on the show, like at some point in the 2:31:26.400 --> 2:31:28.000 future when we've had time to go through the documents. 2:31:28.040 --> 2:31:31.199 But there was recently a massive from distributed to Nile Secrets, 2:31:31.320 --> 2:31:35.680 a massive drop of stuff on the militia movements from 2:31:35.720 --> 2:31:37.600 a guy who infiltrated it. It's a very good Republic 2:31:37.640 --> 2:31:40.240 of story talking about the guy that will link in 2:31:40.400 --> 2:31:44.519 the show notes. So, like, the militia movement has survived, 2:31:44.640 --> 2:31:46.280 but the kind of stuff that like we saw in 2:31:46.400 --> 2:31:48.600 like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty twenty. 2:31:48.480 --> 2:31:49.240 Like is not. 2:31:49.400 --> 2:31:53.360 Yeah, the Proud Boys Q and on, the folks who 2:31:53.480 --> 2:31:55.520 made up J six and the folks who made up 2:31:55.600 --> 2:31:58.520 the alt right, you know, broadly were largely defeated by 2:31:58.520 --> 2:32:01.600 anti fascists in the street. And then the people who 2:32:01.640 --> 2:32:04.480 remained QAnon folks who were I think, you know, some 2:32:04.600 --> 2:32:07.600 of those people were pretty hardcore neo Nazis obviously, but 2:32:07.720 --> 2:32:10.520 a lot of those folks were confused Internet boomers, right, 2:32:10.959 --> 2:32:14.160 and like those people mostly got discouraged by the repression. 2:32:14.200 --> 2:32:16.920 The repression I think successfully sort of put the ends 2:32:16.959 --> 2:32:18.160 to that organized Q stuff. 2:32:18.560 --> 2:32:18.760 Yeah. 2:32:18.800 --> 2:32:20.680 Well, and also, and I also have talked about on 2:32:20.720 --> 2:32:21.920 this show The other thing they put an end to 2:32:22.000 --> 2:32:24.240 that was that the Daily Wire figured out that you 2:32:24.280 --> 2:32:26.400 could use the literally the exact same structure of Q 2:32:26.520 --> 2:32:28.480 and on, but they make it about trans people. Yes, 2:32:28.720 --> 2:32:31.040 and that has been unbelievably effective. 2:32:31.200 --> 2:32:34.600 Now the strategy as a media strategy has continued, but 2:32:34.760 --> 2:32:38.000 as an on the ground organizing principle, it's not that functional. 2:32:38.120 --> 2:32:40.800 Yeah, it's not, which is very lucky. But what that 2:32:40.920 --> 2:32:42.080 means is that Trump has come to. 2:32:42.120 --> 2:32:45.600 Power without a ground movement in the same way that 2:32:45.640 --> 2:32:47.640 he had in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, Like that was 2:32:47.640 --> 2:32:49.800 a real movement. His rallies were really well attended. His 2:32:49.959 --> 2:32:52.320 rallies this election. People left early. You know, it was 2:32:52.440 --> 2:32:54.600 like it was like going to see a losing team 2:32:54.680 --> 2:32:56.480 and their last home game of the season. You know, 2:32:56.920 --> 2:32:58.400 was the vibe at those rallies. 2:32:58.800 --> 2:33:01.320 Yeah, to do a very specific example, it's like the 2:33:01.520 --> 2:33:04.400 vibe is like the last games of the Oakland Athletics 2:33:04.440 --> 2:33:06.960 before they were fucking run out to be for their 2:33:06.959 --> 2:33:09.600 owner move in the last bag exactly where like they've 2:33:09.640 --> 2:33:13.119 had an incredibly disappointing season, like deliberately by the owner 2:33:13.160 --> 2:33:15.160 who decided to make who made a bad team? So 2:33:15.200 --> 2:33:17.440 people wouldn't fight him, like moving the team to La 2:33:17.879 --> 2:33:19.039 like it's like that kind of. 2:33:19.160 --> 2:33:21.960 Hyeah, those are the vibes. And yet of course the Democrats, 2:33:22.000 --> 2:33:26.320 in their infinite infinite capacities, lost the election. And so 2:33:27.080 --> 2:33:28.600 what that means, though, is that is that you have 2:33:28.680 --> 2:33:31.600 this moment where actually the right has as much power 2:33:32.240 --> 2:33:34.920 in the federal government as it's ever had. You know, 2:33:35.000 --> 2:33:37.720 the resistance is you know, they you know, they're very 2:33:37.760 --> 2:33:40.640 proud of legally handing power to the man and ending 2:33:40.720 --> 2:33:41.840 all of his charges or whatever. 2:33:42.360 --> 2:33:45.080 But the street movement is disorganized. 2:33:45.240 --> 2:33:48.640 So you have this gap between the two where there's 2:33:48.720 --> 2:33:52.920 this really powerful media apparatus Fox News, Truth, Social X, 2:33:53.000 --> 2:33:55.360 the Everything app you know, all of these like all 2:33:55.400 --> 2:33:57.760 these places where the fascists you know, and I guess 2:33:57.800 --> 2:34:00.280 Meta has now just officially announced they're like going to 2:34:00.400 --> 2:34:03.119 remove all content restrictions or whatever today. 2:34:03.240 --> 2:34:05.240 I mean, you know when we're recording this. So it's 2:34:05.320 --> 2:34:06.280 just there's this. 2:34:06.520 --> 2:34:09.800 Huge spectacular apparatus, but there isn't this on the ground organization. 2:34:09.920 --> 2:34:14.240 You get people like this Green beret who has been 2:34:14.280 --> 2:34:19.560 really radicalized, made angry, desperate, and like is blowing not 2:34:19.720 --> 2:34:23.280 even the Trump hotel up, which would be a nonsensical 2:34:23.320 --> 2:34:25.840 thing to do, but like literally failing to blow the 2:34:25.879 --> 2:34:29.840 Trump Hotel up in an attempt to start the race 2:34:29.920 --> 2:34:33.560 war by getting Democrats hung. So it's still kind of 2:34:33.600 --> 2:34:36.640 strategy of tension stuff, right, the imagination of as you said, 2:34:36.680 --> 2:34:38.880 the Turner Diaries or this sort of like you know, 2:34:39.040 --> 2:34:41.760 the right wing terror networks in the US. You know, 2:34:41.840 --> 2:34:45.039 there's a reason they're obsessed with attacking electrical power grits. 2:34:45.120 --> 2:34:47.640 Right, they think of the cause enough chaos, like. 2:34:47.680 --> 2:34:49.880 You will return everything to the hobbsy and world of 2:34:49.920 --> 2:34:51.800 all against all, and you'll get a race war and 2:34:51.879 --> 2:34:54.560 everything will fall apart. Whatever it's you know, it's step one, 2:34:55.000 --> 2:34:57.320 kill my family, step two, question mark question marks, step three, 2:34:57.480 --> 2:34:58.760 white supremacist revolution. 2:34:59.160 --> 2:35:01.959 It's horrifying. I mean, it's horrifying, horrifying idea, But. 2:35:02.040 --> 2:35:05.680 That's happening in these groups that have really really they 2:35:05.879 --> 2:35:08.800 believe I think genuinely that, Like I think the right 2:35:08.920 --> 2:35:12.440 does not understand the difference between like Nancy Pelosi and 2:35:12.480 --> 2:35:15.560 Asana Shakur, Like they see them both as equally dangerous. 2:35:15.600 --> 2:35:15.680 Right. 2:35:15.680 --> 2:35:16.600 They hate Liz Cheney. 2:35:16.760 --> 2:35:18.600 Yeah, Like in the final days of elections, she was 2:35:18.640 --> 2:35:20.200 the person they were saying we're gonna go after her, 2:35:20.640 --> 2:35:22.000 like Liz Cheney like. 2:35:22.160 --> 2:35:26.560 Really like yeah, it's like like the closest parallel could 2:35:26.560 --> 2:35:27.920 think of this as like there was a faction of 2:35:27.959 --> 2:35:29.880 people between the Cold War who thought that like the 2:35:29.959 --> 2:35:33.640 Sino Soviet split between Russia and China was like faked, 2:35:34.000 --> 2:35:36.640 and like there were literally guys murdering each other, like 2:35:36.800 --> 2:35:40.280 Chinese and Russian troops were firing artillery at each other 2:35:40.480 --> 2:35:43.080 like on the border like in sixty nine, right, like 2:35:43.360 --> 2:35:46.080 and there were people who were convinced for the entire 2:35:46.280 --> 2:35:50.359 Cold War, even as like as China is invading Vietnam, 2:35:50.879 --> 2:35:53.760 are completely convinced that the entire thing is a ploy 2:35:54.320 --> 2:35:56.800 and that like and that's the secretly like the USSR 2:35:56.920 --> 2:35:59.400 and the PUERC are working together, and these are not 2:35:59.680 --> 2:36:01.440 like you know, some random guys that's like, these are 2:36:01.480 --> 2:36:03.039 these are like the guys that like like the peak 2:36:03.080 --> 2:36:06.160 of conservative power are absolutely convinced that this is true. 2:36:06.160 --> 2:36:07.520 And this is I think, yeah, like this this is 2:36:07.520 --> 2:36:09.879 the kind of thing we're in now. Just like these 2:36:09.879 --> 2:36:12.160 people are completely cooked. They don't they don't have any 2:36:12.160 --> 2:36:15.080 analytical building whatsoever. They just they actually have drunk their 2:36:15.120 --> 2:36:15.720 own kool aid. 2:36:16.000 --> 2:36:18.160 There was just a scoop. Sorr jop is really quick. 2:36:18.160 --> 2:36:19.560 There was a scoop right before we got on to 2:36:19.640 --> 2:36:22.680 record that Heritage Foundation, you know, authors of products Many 2:36:22.760 --> 2:36:23.160 day five. 2:36:23.360 --> 2:36:25.680 Their new big plan is to go after Wikipedia. 2:36:26.240 --> 2:36:29.440 They want to take down Wikipedia, like because because that's 2:36:29.480 --> 2:36:32.160 a place you can verify facts at right, They've already 2:36:32.160 --> 2:36:34.160 got the Post, They've got the Times, Like, what are 2:36:34.160 --> 2:36:35.840 they gonna do? They gotta GoF to Wikipedia. This is 2:36:35.879 --> 2:36:39.039 the kind of like level of unreality they're trying to build. 2:36:39.600 --> 2:36:41.560 Yeah, and do you know what else builds a world 2:36:41.720 --> 2:36:43.440 of unreality and that attempts to sell it to you? 2:36:43.760 --> 2:36:46.840 Ooh, prox and services. That's a fourth this podcast. 2:36:47.280 --> 2:36:59.800 Yes we are back. I'm very proud of that one. 2:36:59.840 --> 2:37:01.640 That that's one of the best ones I've ever done. 2:37:01.680 --> 2:37:03.560 And I just completely off the top of my head, 2:37:04.480 --> 2:37:06.000 just came back better than ever. 2:37:07.080 --> 2:37:08.240 She's never been so bad. 2:37:09.480 --> 2:37:13.480 So I want to move a little bit from the 2:37:13.720 --> 2:37:16.080 just what does the state look like? How pilleda these 2:37:16.120 --> 2:37:19.120 people kind of thing to I want to talk a 2:37:19.160 --> 2:37:21.080 bit about the sort of macro thing that's going on 2:37:21.200 --> 2:37:23.880 here because I think part of what's happening here and 2:37:24.080 --> 2:37:26.640 it's become kind of unfashionable in academic to talk about 2:37:26.680 --> 2:37:31.320 neoliberalism because everyone got obsessed with like the Chips Act 2:37:31.520 --> 2:37:34.160 and like the capacity of the state or whatever. But 2:37:34.720 --> 2:37:36.800 I think, actually, if you want to understand what's going 2:37:36.800 --> 2:37:39.600 on here, a good place to go is like going 2:37:39.680 --> 2:37:42.680 back to here David Graver, and he has this line 2:37:42.920 --> 2:37:46.520 talking about neoliberalism. I think this might God, I should 2:37:46.520 --> 2:37:48.520 have actually looked up where this quote is from before 2:37:48.560 --> 2:37:51.040 I quote it. I think it might be from the 2:37:51.120 --> 2:37:54.760 Shock of Victory. But he has this line about how neoliberalism, 2:37:55.040 --> 2:37:58.119 when given a choice between making their system actually work 2:37:58.520 --> 2:38:01.880 and making it seem like alternative and neoliberalism is impossible, 2:38:01.920 --> 2:38:04.959 it will always choose making me alternatives seem impossible, because 2:38:04.959 --> 2:38:07.560 that's what neoliberalism is, right. This is, you know, the 2:38:07.680 --> 2:38:11.439 sort of maxim of Margaret Thatchery is the reason of alternative. 2:38:12.000 --> 2:38:14.160 It is a system that is designed to destroy all 2:38:14.160 --> 2:38:16.879 alternatives in the you know, and this includes the possibility 2:38:16.920 --> 2:38:21.040 of a future and the goal of this And this 2:38:21.160 --> 2:38:23.440 is I think that the sort of dominant affect of 2:38:23.640 --> 2:38:27.440 the years of lead paint is this induced helplessness. Yeah, 2:38:27.480 --> 2:38:28.880 this is some thing thicky I would ask you about 2:38:29.040 --> 2:38:30.840 the sort of like induced helplessness of this moment. 2:38:32.360 --> 2:38:34.800 Yeah, yeah, I was sort of vibing with what you're saying. 2:38:34.800 --> 2:38:37.040 But yeah, I think a lot of people online have 2:38:37.160 --> 2:38:39.440 accepted sort of you know, don't give in an advance, right. 2:38:39.560 --> 2:38:42.480 But like, I think one big thing that has been 2:38:42.720 --> 2:38:45.480 part of the Biden like strategy of counter revolution and 2:38:45.520 --> 2:38:47.000 part of what's been going on over the last four years, 2:38:47.000 --> 2:38:49.200 but indeed over the last four decades as well as 2:38:49.240 --> 2:38:52.200 sort of part of neoliberalism, is like the idea that 2:38:52.320 --> 2:38:56.119 you actually really can't do stuff yourself. You need a market, 2:38:56.560 --> 2:38:59.119 you need assistance, you need a professional, you need an 2:38:59.160 --> 2:39:03.119 expert to make a choice, right, and any choice made otherwise, 2:39:03.520 --> 2:39:04.879 you know, is doomed to failure. 2:39:05.040 --> 2:39:05.160 Right. 2:39:05.400 --> 2:39:08.560 And I think part of why Trump feels like to people, 2:39:08.760 --> 2:39:13.080 some people like he's resisting neoliberalism is because he's like, no, no, no, 2:39:13.200 --> 2:39:15.120 I don't listen to experts. I don't listen to anyone 2:39:15.200 --> 2:39:17.840 except my gut. I just do what I want. The 2:39:18.040 --> 2:39:22.200 incredibly exhausting and miserablest strategy of the previous thirty years 2:39:22.240 --> 2:39:24.600 of politics, which is you get a ton of expert 2:39:24.720 --> 2:39:27.640 reviews and then you do a political change that moves 2:39:27.680 --> 2:39:30.960 things like twelve percent one way, you know, nudge politics 2:39:31.000 --> 2:39:32.520 as like Barack Obama loved or whatever. 2:39:32.600 --> 2:39:34.800 Right, So that's sort of like there's there's that sense. 2:39:34.840 --> 2:39:37.039 But then on the individual sense, it's. 2:39:37.000 --> 2:39:40.920 Also about distributing the workplaces and breaking down the possibility 2:39:40.959 --> 2:39:43.600 of labor solidarity, right, because part of what the sixties 2:39:43.760 --> 2:39:45.840 was and the reason the sixties lasted so long in 2:39:45.879 --> 2:39:48.520 Italy is because Italy had the biggest factories and had 2:39:48.600 --> 2:39:50.960 the like the last in Western Europe. They had the 2:39:51.080 --> 2:39:54.440 last folks still becoming proletarians from peasantry, like coming up 2:39:54.480 --> 2:39:58.000 from Sicily. So they had this like massive, massive factories 2:39:58.280 --> 2:40:00.880 that had these like crazy strikes over over again. So 2:40:01.160 --> 2:40:04.200 the distribution of labor, you know, with globalization, neoliberalism and 2:40:04.200 --> 2:40:07.560 blah blah blah, breaking down labor workforce. Like, we also 2:40:07.640 --> 2:40:11.360 are very helpless individually in our workplaces, right, and like 2:40:11.480 --> 2:40:13.640 we go to the HR department to get help, right. 2:40:13.800 --> 2:40:16.200 Where we sort of get self care. We like work 2:40:16.240 --> 2:40:16.720 on ourselves. 2:40:16.760 --> 2:40:19.000 We get therapy, you know that our boss offers us 2:40:19.080 --> 2:40:22.600 you know, thoughts and prayers right when when things are hard. 2:40:22.920 --> 2:40:28.200 But like there's a big attempt to allow people to 2:40:28.720 --> 2:40:31.440 define themselves sort of the carrot. The carrot of the 2:40:31.480 --> 2:40:33.360 sixties was like, you know, you get to like have 2:40:33.480 --> 2:40:36.560 an identity, like, Okay, we won't be officially racist. 2:40:36.640 --> 2:40:39.440 Yeah, quote unquote, you know, okay, we won't be officially sexist. 2:40:39.480 --> 2:40:41.800 And they claim, okay, whatever, none of that's true, but 2:40:41.879 --> 2:40:44.440 they but they sort of sell that, and then they say, 2:40:44.720 --> 2:40:47.680 but in return, you have to like do all of 2:40:47.760 --> 2:40:48.280 the self work. 2:40:48.360 --> 2:40:50.360 You have to be an identity in the marketplace. 2:40:51.080 --> 2:40:54.680 So basically you get exhausted because like even choosing what 2:40:55.000 --> 2:40:59.160 shoes to wear becomes like both an identity defining question 2:40:59.640 --> 2:41:04.960 and an exhausting slog through debt structures and infinite marketplaces, right, 2:41:05.080 --> 2:41:08.280 like yeah, and so that in you know, spoony world 2:41:08.360 --> 2:41:10.560 becalled that sort of choice paralysis, right, And I think 2:41:10.720 --> 2:41:13.520 that's probably accepted as well, that like you have so 2:41:13.680 --> 2:41:16.119 much choice that you feel absolutely helpless on the face 2:41:16.160 --> 2:41:18.680 of it. You can't do anything, and so that produces 2:41:18.720 --> 2:41:21.400 a craving for authoritarianism, for authority, right, That's another thing 2:41:21.440 --> 2:41:22.520 people want is like. 2:41:22.600 --> 2:41:24.720 Someone else decide for me. I'm sick of thinking about this. 2:41:25.800 --> 2:41:27.520 Yeah, And that's I think been one of the most 2:41:27.560 --> 2:41:30.800 important aspects of everything that's been happening right now is 2:41:30.879 --> 2:41:33.320 this sort of strategy of exhaustion and this demand for 2:41:33.440 --> 2:41:35.160 someone else to make choices for you, to free you 2:41:35.240 --> 2:41:38.200 from this just like this endless nightmare of like trying 2:41:38.240 --> 2:41:40.800 to figure out which healthcare plan you're supposed to buy 2:41:41.080 --> 2:41:41.680 and shit. 2:41:41.520 --> 2:41:43.320 Like that and oh my god, you know, and the 2:41:43.400 --> 2:41:46.360 right has a bunch of alternatives here right with like 2:41:46.440 --> 2:41:48.760 this is the fantasy of what treadwives is. It's like 2:41:48.800 --> 2:41:50.400 what if someone else did your thinking for you. 2:41:50.560 --> 2:41:54.200 It's also the entire logic behind AI right and betwinding, 2:41:54.240 --> 2:41:56.360 this sort of AI agent's thing that they're like pushing 2:41:56.440 --> 2:41:58.840 right now, go listen towards see ES coverage and you'll 2:41:58.920 --> 2:41:59.640 care much about it. 2:42:00.200 --> 2:42:02.640 Is like what if someone just like planned your life 2:42:02.720 --> 2:42:02.920 for you? 2:42:03.040 --> 2:42:03.160 Right? 2:42:03.640 --> 2:42:04.880 What if you could talk to a machine and it 2:42:04.879 --> 2:42:06.320 would plan all your trips and it would tell you 2:42:06.360 --> 2:42:07.760 what to eat, and we would tell you how to live. 2:42:07.840 --> 2:42:10.600 And this is you know, this is also the structure 2:42:10.600 --> 2:42:11.400 of how cults work. 2:42:11.640 --> 2:42:13.039 Like this is why colts have been able to. 2:42:13.760 --> 2:42:17.040 Attract people that, like, I think the media conception of 2:42:17.080 --> 2:42:18.560 cults you wouldn't think would be in them, as why 2:42:18.560 --> 2:42:21.200 there so many engineers in cults because there's like a 2:42:21.200 --> 2:42:23.120 once of people who have to make choices constantly, and 2:42:23.480 --> 2:42:25.000 the cult is like, hey, what if I just like 2:42:25.120 --> 2:42:28.160 made all of these choices for you? And this is ultimately, 2:42:28.240 --> 2:42:29.600 you know, we talked about this a little bit before. 2:42:29.640 --> 2:42:32.440 This is ultimately part of what's going on with like 2:42:32.520 --> 2:42:35.879 trump Ism, right, because Trump is also to some extent, 2:42:36.000 --> 2:42:37.920 like if you're in this movement, like you no longer 2:42:38.000 --> 2:42:38.800 have to choose anymore. 2:42:38.959 --> 2:42:40.720 You just you know, here is the guy. The guy 2:42:40.840 --> 2:42:41.760 is going to do the thing for you. 2:42:41.840 --> 2:42:45.360 This is also if you go back to your original 2:42:45.480 --> 2:42:48.440 sort of conceptions of fascism, right, it's about the sort 2:42:48.440 --> 2:42:52.080 of populace delegates their will into the single heroic individual, 2:42:52.120 --> 2:42:54.600 and the single heroic individual like acts outside of the 2:42:55.240 --> 2:42:56.840 bonds of the system in order to preserve it and 2:42:56.920 --> 2:42:59.320 like does all this stuff for you. And I think 2:42:59.360 --> 2:43:03.520 there's a compa of that with this sort of paralysis 2:43:04.320 --> 2:43:07.960 and exhaustion, particularly like exhaustion and anxiety also, and this 2:43:08.040 --> 2:43:09.920 is something that is very well documented that you know, 2:43:10.000 --> 2:43:11.480 we're are going to get into a foll here. But 2:43:11.920 --> 2:43:13.320 all of the stuff we've been talking about about the 2:43:13.360 --> 2:43:16.400 information space, where there's this constant deluge of just nonsense. 2:43:16.440 --> 2:43:20.080 And that's designed specifically, not even necessarily to convince you 2:43:20.160 --> 2:43:21.880 that something is true, but to convince you that it's 2:43:21.920 --> 2:43:24.440 impossible to figure out what is happening and to make 2:43:24.480 --> 2:43:27.360 you just give up. And when you're refusing to make 2:43:27.520 --> 2:43:30.840 a choice between like was there a gas attack in 2:43:30.920 --> 2:43:32.920 Syria or was it like staged by the rebels as 2:43:32.920 --> 2:43:35.600 the fallse flag, right, you're refusing to make the choice, 2:43:36.160 --> 2:43:38.640 has the effect of legitimizing both of them and also 2:43:38.760 --> 2:43:40.920 removes you from sort of the field of play of action. 2:43:41.879 --> 2:43:43.480 And this has been a really important part of this 2:43:43.600 --> 2:43:45.320 to sort of demobilize the left. Like it's part of 2:43:45.440 --> 2:43:48.440 what the sort of Tulsi gabberd Gabit was right, was 2:43:48.480 --> 2:43:49.960 that you could take a bunch of this sort of 2:43:50.040 --> 2:43:53.560 like rising nominally anti imperialist thing and you could just 2:43:53.959 --> 2:43:56.640 do this shit to them. And you know, now, Tulsi 2:43:56.640 --> 2:43:59.920 Gabbert is like one of the big people in Trump world, right, 2:44:00.080 --> 2:44:02.840 I think, what's his name? I disrespect him by not 2:44:02.959 --> 2:44:04.800 remembering his name, but I should. For the podcast, Steve 2:44:04.840 --> 2:44:06.760 Bannon put it well when he said, just flood the 2:44:06.840 --> 2:44:09.320 zone with shit, right, it's sort of the strategy. You 2:44:09.520 --> 2:44:13.400 just release so much terrible information that it doesn't matter. 2:44:13.879 --> 2:44:16.440 And this is how Trump also like kept ahead of 2:44:16.520 --> 2:44:19.000 his you know, many scandals, as he would just like say, 2:44:19.040 --> 2:44:21.320 the next most outrageous thing, and you know, you'd have 2:44:21.400 --> 2:44:23.440 to commit to responding to one, but he was already 2:44:23.440 --> 2:44:25.000 at the next thing. And it was just a sort 2:44:25.040 --> 2:44:29.840 of like amplifying, amplifying wave of like chaos and nonsense 2:44:30.400 --> 2:44:32.720 that you eventually, yeah, you get bowled over by it, 2:44:32.800 --> 2:44:35.080 you get exhausted, And I think, you know, you mentioned 2:44:35.120 --> 2:44:38.200 healthcare markets, and I think, like that's really that's really 2:44:38.360 --> 2:44:40.600 telling too, because we've just like lived through a pandemic. 2:44:40.879 --> 2:44:43.560 We're in the midst of a pandemic. Covids is in 2:44:43.640 --> 2:44:45.840 another wave that like no one has named right now, 2:44:46.320 --> 2:44:50.200 and no one even mentioned healthcare, let alone the pandemic 2:44:50.360 --> 2:44:52.800 during the election of twenty twenty four. Yeah, So part 2:44:52.840 --> 2:44:55.240 of what's been going on too is that there has 2:44:55.320 --> 2:44:57.880 been this mass push by the Biden administration of the 2:44:57.959 --> 2:45:01.320 Democrats to make us forget what happened in twenty twenty 2:45:01.920 --> 2:45:03.560 in terms of the uprising YEA, and then make us 2:45:03.560 --> 2:45:07.439 forget the pandemic, which is so unpopular and which continuing 2:45:07.560 --> 2:45:11.920 to actually prevent would have done significant damage to the economy. Right, 2:45:12.000 --> 2:45:13.400 it was already pretty bad for it, and it would 2:45:13.440 --> 2:45:15.200 have continued to get worse. So everyone had to be 2:45:15.240 --> 2:45:16.000 forced back to work. 2:45:16.080 --> 2:45:19.080 How do you force people back to work who evidently 2:45:19.160 --> 2:45:22.480 care about each other and their own safety. You lied them, 2:45:22.640 --> 2:45:24.800 You confuse them about what's actually going on. Right, So 2:45:25.240 --> 2:45:28.360 there's been this huge priming of the pump for this 2:45:28.560 --> 2:45:31.840 strategy by Biden and the Democrats, and by our own 2:45:31.920 --> 2:45:34.520 exhaustion over the pandemic and the fact that we had 2:45:34.520 --> 2:45:35.840 to go back to work, so we had to get 2:45:35.879 --> 2:45:38.160 over the cognitive dissonance of that. So all of these 2:45:38.200 --> 2:45:43.280 factors together have produced a psychic stew culturally in which 2:45:43.520 --> 2:45:47.080 people are very susceptible to just throwing up their hands 2:45:47.120 --> 2:45:48.760 and going, I don't know whatever. 2:45:49.720 --> 2:45:49.920 Yeah. 2:45:50.040 --> 2:45:52.400 But on the other hand, the strategy of the Years 2:45:52.440 --> 2:45:54.400 of Lead was a strategy born of strength, right, the 2:45:54.480 --> 2:45:58.160 years of Lead paint This is not a strategy built 2:45:58.280 --> 2:46:01.400 by people who haven't credibly solid grasp on power. 2:46:01.680 --> 2:46:01.800 Right. 2:46:02.440 --> 2:46:05.760 The actual base that put Trump in power, right, and 2:46:05.840 --> 2:46:08.920 their actual political base is incredibly brittle. Right, they are 2:46:09.040 --> 2:46:12.960 about to tank the entire global economy like through by 2:46:13.080 --> 2:46:15.240 by putting like fifty percent taria of some like every 2:46:15.280 --> 2:46:18.480 single country in the world. They okay, let's let's be 2:46:18.480 --> 2:46:21.800 accurate here. That on on on Chinese, Mexican and Canadian goods, 2:46:21.840 --> 2:46:23.760 which is like, okay, like I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you, 2:46:23.840 --> 2:46:25.480 as an exercise to the reader to go look up 2:46:25.520 --> 2:46:27.240 the places that the US imports things from. 2:46:29.240 --> 2:46:31.400 Right, So, like, you know, this is how you resist. 2:46:33.280 --> 2:46:34.400 This is this how you resist. 2:46:34.440 --> 2:46:36.600 Here you're learned helplessness is by going and research and 2:46:36.640 --> 2:46:40.359 things for yourself. But you know they're about to annihilate 2:46:40.400 --> 2:46:42.480 the entire economy when the thing that brought into power 2:46:42.600 --> 2:46:46.240 was fury at rising prices. Right, these fucking arrogant bastards 2:46:46.400 --> 2:46:48.520 have sown the winds and they are going to reap 2:46:48.560 --> 2:46:51.480 the fucking whirlwinds. The basis of this fucking of this 2:46:51.760 --> 2:46:54.200 entire strategy, you know, and I ask you this, like, 2:46:54.280 --> 2:46:57.120 dear listener, do you think these people can hold three 2:46:57.240 --> 2:47:00.360 hundred and thirty million people in line by sheer force? 2:47:01.080 --> 2:47:01.800 No, of course not. 2:47:01.879 --> 2:47:03.520 There's no fucking way. This is the most heavily armed 2:47:03.520 --> 2:47:05.400 population that has ever existed in human history. 2:47:05.720 --> 2:47:05.879 Right. 2:47:07.160 --> 2:47:11.480 This strategy is a strategy that is built around getting 2:47:11.520 --> 2:47:14.240 your compliance. Yes, And if they can't get your compliance 2:47:14.320 --> 2:47:16.840 by you agreeing with them, they're going to attempt to 2:47:16.879 --> 2:47:19.400 get your compliance by just taking you out of the equation. 2:47:19.640 --> 2:47:19.760 Right. 2:47:20.200 --> 2:47:22.440 They need you scared, They need you confused, They need 2:47:22.480 --> 2:47:25.520 you completely convinced of your own helplessness. They need you 2:47:25.640 --> 2:47:28.280 to forget that, as the old song says, in your 2:47:28.440 --> 2:47:30.959 hands is placed to power greater than their hoarded gold, 2:47:31.440 --> 2:47:34.680 greater than the might of armies magnified one thousandfold. They 2:47:34.720 --> 2:47:36.440 need you to forget the next line of the song, 2:47:36.920 --> 2:47:39.040 which goes, we can bring to birth a new world 2:47:39.240 --> 2:47:42.640 from the ashes of the old when the union makes 2:47:42.720 --> 2:47:46.160 us strong. And this is the entire fucking thing, right, 2:47:46.520 --> 2:47:48.800 If these people were actually strong, they would not need 2:47:48.920 --> 2:47:51.680 an entire strategy that was based around political demobilization. 2:47:52.360 --> 2:47:53.080 Yeah, exactly. 2:47:53.879 --> 2:47:55.280 And the thing is right. 2:47:55.600 --> 2:47:58.280 The thing about this moment is that basically everyone is 2:47:58.320 --> 2:48:03.200 incredibly disorganized. However, that means that you just literally any 2:48:03.360 --> 2:48:06.600 random person can just take the things that you know 2:48:06.720 --> 2:48:10.840 how to do and start organizing. The system is designed 2:48:10.959 --> 2:48:13.000 to make sure that you don't do that. And guess what, 2:48:13.200 --> 2:48:16.880 it's not very hard for you to pick up the 2:48:16.959 --> 2:48:18.360 things that you know how to do for you, to 2:48:18.520 --> 2:48:20.680 use the relationships in people you know in your life 2:48:20.959 --> 2:48:23.000 to get together with them and to go do things. 2:48:23.520 --> 2:48:27.039 And they are fucking terrified of this. Yes, their entire 2:48:27.120 --> 2:48:29.480 strategies to make sure that you simply do not do this. 2:48:29.720 --> 2:48:32.560 And every single one of you has the power to 2:48:32.720 --> 2:48:35.240 do this. And I know this because I also was 2:48:35.320 --> 2:48:37.880 just some random dipshit Like I was just literally a 2:48:38.000 --> 2:48:41.600 random college student, right, Like, I was just some asshole, 2:48:41.840 --> 2:48:43.560 and I just started doing things right. And I got 2:48:43.600 --> 2:48:45.560 together with my friends and we fucking we made a 2:48:45.680 --> 2:48:47.720 tendance union and we did anti I stuff, and we 2:48:47.760 --> 2:48:50.120 did all of this shit. And it wasn't that like 2:48:50.200 --> 2:48:51.840 any of us are any different than you. We just 2:48:52.200 --> 2:48:54.160 you know, decided one day we were going to do it. 2:48:54.200 --> 2:48:57.640 And it happens to return one last time to David Graeber. 2:48:57.959 --> 2:49:00.240 One of one of his most famous quotes is theultimate 2:49:00.360 --> 2:49:02.199 hidden truth of this world is that it is something 2:49:02.240 --> 2:49:04.680 that we make and could just as easily make differently. 2:49:05.640 --> 2:49:08.920 And everyone who is in power right now is absolutely 2:49:09.040 --> 2:49:11.680 terrified of the idea of you making this world differently, 2:49:11.840 --> 2:49:12.960 and together we can do that. 2:49:13.840 --> 2:49:15.200 Yes, that's exactly right. 2:49:15.280 --> 2:49:17.360 And another thing that I think is really powerful about 2:49:17.400 --> 2:49:20.800 getting started in that way is that all of those 2:49:20.920 --> 2:49:25.360 false choices they become so much less important. And actually, 2:49:25.440 --> 2:49:27.600 when you have a real goal that you and your 2:49:27.640 --> 2:49:30.240 friends have made together, that you're building towards, it's actually 2:49:30.240 --> 2:49:32.800 a lot easier to make choices as to make decisions, yeah, 2:49:32.800 --> 2:49:34.760 because you would know what you need for the next step, 2:49:34.879 --> 2:49:36.200 or you'll have an idea of it. You might make 2:49:36.240 --> 2:49:38.800 a mistake, you might be wrong, but each step along 2:49:38.879 --> 2:49:41.280 that way, like, it's an easier way to do this 2:49:41.480 --> 2:49:44.480 and to feel the power of real choices rather than 2:49:44.520 --> 2:49:47.640 the false choices of like do you want your AI 2:49:48.080 --> 2:49:52.400 from grock or do you want it from CHATGBT, Right, 2:49:52.840 --> 2:49:55.960 And obviously like that's a joke, but it's true that 2:49:56.640 --> 2:50:00.760 they aren't offering us anything anymore. They they have decided, 2:50:00.879 --> 2:50:03.440 they have decided that what we get is stomped We 2:50:03.520 --> 2:50:05.640 get stomped on. That's what they've agreed to give us. 2:50:06.000 --> 2:50:09.240 Is like getting stomped on. Like, okay, that was always 2:50:09.520 --> 2:50:11.640 what they wanted to give us in the past, but 2:50:12.040 --> 2:50:15.279 they might learn very very quickly and reaping the whirlwind 2:50:15.640 --> 2:50:19.920 that the reason that a century of American politicians have 2:50:20.160 --> 2:50:23.440 tipped their hat to democratic norms and have tried really 2:50:23.520 --> 2:50:27.600 hard to preserve the niceties of the government. Is because 2:50:28.120 --> 2:50:31.600 they have a slightly fresher memory of the French Revolution 2:50:31.720 --> 2:50:34.320 and the guillotines which haunts them, or the Haitian Revolution, 2:50:34.440 --> 2:50:36.760 which is the real fear lurking behind the fear of 2:50:36.800 --> 2:50:39.800 the French. Yeah, when the slaves rose up and destroyed 2:50:39.879 --> 2:50:42.520 the sugar plantation of Heiti and it has been punished 2:50:42.520 --> 2:50:43.000 ever since. 2:50:43.520 --> 2:50:44.920 The point being that. 2:50:45.480 --> 2:50:49.720 These things that they are overwhelming. This flooding the zone 2:50:49.800 --> 2:50:52.320 was shit, as Mia says, is from a position of 2:50:52.360 --> 2:50:56.240 weakness because when they were strong, when they were strong, 2:50:56.320 --> 2:50:58.800 they had Obama was a sign of strength. We can 2:50:58.840 --> 2:51:01.600 elect a black person, a black man in this racist country, 2:51:01.959 --> 2:51:04.600 and he can just go on hope and he can 2:51:04.840 --> 2:51:07.480 actually make very few changes and he'll still be incredibly popular, 2:51:08.040 --> 2:51:11.440 like even through a huge economic collapse. Right, that was 2:51:11.520 --> 2:51:14.320 a sort of strong gesture. Trump is a sign of 2:51:14.520 --> 2:51:18.840 real senescence. That I use the phrase advisably. And there 2:51:18.959 --> 2:51:20.440 are a lot of holes. 2:51:20.640 --> 2:51:22.520 And they have drunk the kool aid. The right has 2:51:22.600 --> 2:51:23.320 drunk the kool aid. 2:51:23.560 --> 2:51:28.080 They don't know the difference between democrats and anarchists, not really, 2:51:28.360 --> 2:51:31.080 they genuinely don't really know the difference. Some of them do, 2:51:31.280 --> 2:51:33.880 their philosophers do, but the main ones on the street 2:51:33.920 --> 2:51:36.080 have no idea about the difference. That gives us a 2:51:36.160 --> 2:51:38.600 lot of space to move, That gives us a lot 2:51:38.680 --> 2:51:41.680 of space to take action, to build things that are 2:51:41.680 --> 2:51:45.560 invisible to them, and that might be invisible to social media, 2:51:46.040 --> 2:51:49.800 which is a place built around reinforcing our helplessness. In 2:51:49.879 --> 2:51:52.440 many ways, the strategies we have to take will be 2:51:52.680 --> 2:51:54.920 less visible in many ways, I think, than they were 2:51:55.080 --> 2:51:56.640 in previous times, and they're going to have to be 2:51:56.720 --> 2:52:00.800 of necessity because maga is basically, you know, it's the 2:52:00.879 --> 2:52:03.000 eye of sore on and if it lands on you like, 2:52:03.360 --> 2:52:06.360 you're in trouble. But if it doesn't, like, you can 2:52:06.480 --> 2:52:07.920 just kind of move, and if you don't, you know, 2:52:08.080 --> 2:52:11.880 run into any any trouble like, you can get a 2:52:11.920 --> 2:52:13.720 lot done. I think that's as much as I'll say 2:52:13.720 --> 2:52:16.120 about that. But there's a lot to do, and there's 2:52:16.160 --> 2:52:17.960 a lot of movements to make and a lot of 2:52:18.000 --> 2:52:20.520 building to do that will both give you a sense 2:52:20.560 --> 2:52:23.440 of power and solve these big problems for you and 2:52:23.520 --> 2:52:26.640 your community. And if enough people start doing that, then 2:52:26.680 --> 2:52:28.280 they will take away all their power. 2:52:30.959 --> 2:52:34.120 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 2:52:34.240 --> 2:52:36.080 from now until the heat death of the universe. 2:52:36.720 --> 2:52:39.160 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 2:52:39.360 --> 2:52:42.400 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 2:52:42.520 --> 2:52:46.039 Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 2:52:46.160 --> 2:52:49.680 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 2:52:49.760 --> 2:52:52.080 now find sources for It Could Happen Here, listed directly 2:52:52.120 --> 2:52:54.360 in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.