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Speaker 1: Also media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to let you know this is a compilation episode, So

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Speaker 1: every episode of the week that just happened is here

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Speaker 1: in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for

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Speaker 1: you to listen to in a long stretch if you want.

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Speaker 1: If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 1: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, welcome, Vick can have it here. It's me

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Speaker 2: James today with a terrible cold as you can probably tell,

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Speaker 2: but still very important to listen today because I'm talking

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Speaker 2: to Andreina, an organizer from Ktown for All Up in LA,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to talk about the fires in LA

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Speaker 2: and the meat fade response and what you can do

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Speaker 2: to help.

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Speaker 3: So welcome to the show.

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Speaker 4: Andrena, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: James.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for being here. I know you guys are

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Speaker 2: really busy right now. So to begin with, like in

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Speaker 2: case this has missed people, and there's a lot there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of news happening right now, can you explain

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Speaker 2: what's been going on in LA with respected to fires

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Speaker 2: for the last two three days, So.

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Speaker 4: About three or four days ago, we got a warning

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Speaker 4: that we were going to be experiencing high winds up

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Speaker 4: to fifty miles per hour, which is nuts, and they

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Speaker 4: were going to be coming from the desert. So this

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Speaker 4: is just like a barrage of hot wind. So we

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Speaker 4: were preparing to have to replace tents and tarps because

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Speaker 4: you know, man made structures that people are surviving with

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Speaker 4: can't survive that kind of wind. But when we hear

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Speaker 4: that wind here in southern California, we immediately think fire, sadly,

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Speaker 4: because any little you know, a cigarette, but an electrical spark,

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Speaker 4: you know, like when when it's this dry, it's enough

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Speaker 4: to cause devastation, which is exactly what's happened. There are

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Speaker 4: about seven fires right now spread around the perimeter of

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Speaker 4: Los Angeles County that have been started and then spread

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Speaker 4: massively by these giant winds everywhere, so the embers are

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Speaker 4: being picked up. Thankfully, the wind has settled down, but

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Speaker 4: the wind itself has prevented, you know, the big water

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Speaker 4: tankers from flying, which is led to the massive deaths

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Speaker 4: s that you saw in the Palisades and other areas.

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Speaker 4: You know, the entire water we being grounded for a

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Speaker 4: while just meant that it was burning with no control,

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Speaker 4: relying on on the ground firefighters. So what we've seen

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Speaker 4: is just mass devastation, thousands of homes lost. I think

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Speaker 4: there is a death tally, thankfully very low, in about tennish.

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Speaker 4: I think I've heard from this morning with confirmation. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's all we're facing right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty devastating, Like whole neighborhoods have gone right,

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Speaker 2: I think I thought like two thousand structures have already

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Speaker 2: been burned. And like, as you said, if people aren't

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Speaker 2: in the United States or nut familiar with how fire

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Speaker 2: is for like out here in the Western United States,

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Speaker 2: it's a lot of air dropping fire retired in and

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Speaker 2: air dropping water, which without that, it's very hard to

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Speaker 2: get enough water to where it needs to be. And

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Speaker 2: I believe at one point that actually ran out of

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Speaker 2: water in water towers right up in Palisades.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the fire hydrants ran dry in some areas, which

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Speaker 4: is terrifying to think of. And we were warned. I'm

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Speaker 4: in the Koreatan neighborhood. We were warned about low water pressure.

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Speaker 4: And I do know that some areas in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 4: particularly in that region, are being worn to boil water

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Speaker 4: and that their water is unsafe to drink right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen that too. Dare was a water boil

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Speaker 2: warning for yeah, lots of places. So as a result

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Speaker 2: of these fires and all the destruction they've caused, I

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Speaker 2: think I saw it was it one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: thousand odd people have been displaced now, is that?

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Speaker 3: Is that right? Is that a good number?

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Speaker 4: I saw something large like that of just the people

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Speaker 4: that have been evacuated. Right north of me was the

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Speaker 4: Sunset fire, and that was very concerningly close to the

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Speaker 4: Korea Ten neighborhood that is generally never concerned about fires

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Speaker 4: because we're so in the concrete jungle, like, we're so insulated.

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Speaker 4: I think that's the closest we've come to devastation, and

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Speaker 4: we were really stressed out last night just keeping an

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Speaker 4: eye on the news because that's, you know, not even

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Speaker 4: two miles away away from the core of the densest

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Speaker 4: neighborhood of Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I guess again, people aren't familiar like fires

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Speaker 2: destroy property and kill people every year here, and the

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Speaker 2: climate change has meant that they have become worse and worse.

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Speaker 3: But in the middle of a city.

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Speaker 2: You're Germany not worried about fires because the resources will

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Speaker 2: be spent to defend that property, right, Like this is

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Speaker 2: this is a very unique situation to see huge parts

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Speaker 2: of a city burning down.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, particularly the Palisades, which is historically a significantly wealthy neighborhood. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, a den of celebrity in Hollywood elites, and

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Speaker 4: seeing it devastated just kind of sends home the point

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Speaker 4: that you know, you have wealth that insulates you from

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Speaker 4: the worst of what we're facing, but that only goes

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Speaker 4: so far. I saw that there was a couple of

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Speaker 4: wealthy people on Twitter begging for private fired fighting forces

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Speaker 4: to come save their homes. Famously, the same ones that

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Speaker 4: are talking about activation and how smart they are to

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Speaker 4: do real estate, you know, maneuvering to not pay into

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Speaker 4: the social system that helps in these times. Clearly we're

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Speaker 4: severely underfunded and severely undermanaged when it comes to the

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Speaker 4: government stepping in during these emergencies.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and like that's something I want to address because

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Speaker 2: I think in every natural disaster that I've covered, the

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Speaker 2: reason it becomes a disaster, I guess is because the

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Speaker 2: state's incapable of responding in a way that protects people,

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Speaker 2: and in almost every case it's people who have to step.

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Speaker 3: Up and look after one another.

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Speaker 2: So we should talk about the response of the LA

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Speaker 2: City and county governments, and then I'd love to talk

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Speaker 2: about the mutial aid response after that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, from what we've seen here in Kaytown, if you

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Speaker 4: weren't immediately evacuated, there's nothing. All of our outreach folks

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Speaker 4: that were out talking to all of our un house

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Speaker 4: neighbors here in the area, which are in the hundreds,

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Speaker 4: first of all, didn't know what was going on. They

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Speaker 4: saw the sky, they assumed there was a fire nearby,

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Speaker 4: but they didn't know the swath of the devastation and

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Speaker 4: that we were generally threatened as well. They didn't have

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Speaker 4: any supplies, and in some areas of Los Angeles we've

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Speaker 4: heard as of this morning and yesterday that sweeps have continued.

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Speaker 4: So the city has continued throwing away tents from the

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Speaker 4: people living on the streets. And then for the house

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Speaker 4: people that have been displaced, there are shelter designations that

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Speaker 4: they've set up. Pan Pacific Park is one of them

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Speaker 4: for Hollywood. There's one in Pasadena, you know, and the like.

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Speaker 4: But it seems to be you know, a hodgepodge of

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Speaker 4: you know, disorganization and a lot of you know, mutual

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Speaker 4: aid folks on the ground being the ones to direct

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Speaker 4: people and gather the supplies. I have not heard of,

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Speaker 4: you know, a very formal eyed system. There is no

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Speaker 4: word on any kind of significant assistance for people who

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Speaker 4: have lost their homes at the moment. I don't know

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Speaker 4: if the Red Cross is gonna set a staging zone

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Speaker 4: up or anything, but I do know that the people

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Speaker 4: who are setting up you know, places for people to go, food, water,

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Speaker 4: even pet care, things like that have been just random volunteers.

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Speaker 4: You know. I'm in this chat group Mutual ADLA that

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Speaker 4: spurred you know, literally just on signal the day that

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Speaker 4: the fire started, that has a thousand people on it

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Speaker 4: mobilizing and distributing and volunteering to move people from one

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Speaker 4: area of the city to the other. You know, I

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Speaker 4: have this person who needs a place to stay, Like,

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Speaker 4: who's got a list of places that are open, because

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Speaker 4: when you have disasters as big, you need help quickly. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and bureaucracy just doesn't you know that that's not built

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Speaker 4: for that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not.

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Speaker 2: And like we've definitely seen that there was just a

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Speaker 2: failure of the state to respond like in the way

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Speaker 2: that it needed to as quickly as it needed to.

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Speaker 2: And it's really it's wonderful to see people picking up slack,

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Speaker 2: like of course it is. It's really beautiful that people

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Speaker 2: show up for each other in these times. There's something

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Speaker 2: about that that I obviously, like find really affirming. That's

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Speaker 2: maybe why I do this for a living. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's really beautiful to see. It doesn't mean that we

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Speaker 2: should forget that, Like the state has capacity that it

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Speaker 2: is using, as you said, to displace people who are unhoused.

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Speaker 2: It could be using that capacity to bring masks to people,

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Speaker 2: to bring food to people, to create shelter for people.

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Speaker 2: It's not it's choosing to harasp people who live on

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Speaker 2: the street.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is something we see repeatedly. You know,

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Speaker 4: it hasn't rained in LA for about eight months, but

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Speaker 4: when it did rain, we had historical rains last year,

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Speaker 4: in particular, we had a cold front where folks die

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Speaker 4: every time, and we know folks are going to die

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Speaker 4: every time it rains here in LA. We have more

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Speaker 4: people that die of hypothermia and Los Angeles than New

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Speaker 4: York and San Francisco. Combined every year because hypothermia actually

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Speaker 4: doesn't require it to be freezing this set end. It

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Speaker 4: just requires you to be in around sixty degrees and

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Speaker 4: be wet, which is very common on the streets here

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Speaker 4: of LA. We've seen people get frostbite from having their

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Speaker 4: skin against cold concrete, you know, over the night while

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Speaker 4: it's raining, and our electeds know this. When I first

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Speaker 4: started doing this work, there was a slogan that we

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Speaker 4: were chanting for a day in LA and that was

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Speaker 4: the number of unhoused people that died every day. And

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Speaker 4: now we're at about six or seven. We request, you know,

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Speaker 4: through the Freedom of Information Act, requests the coroner's report

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Speaker 4: every year of how many people died, and that number

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Speaker 4: is only growing. And the government knows this. They know

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Speaker 4: every time we have a heat wave that there are

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Speaker 4: seventy thousand people sleeping on the streets, sleeping in their cars.

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Speaker 4: They know that during the winter, you know, people are

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Speaker 4: out there in the cold and the rain. And I

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Speaker 4: talk to people who aren't into the organizing space and

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Speaker 4: they asked me like, well, aren't there you know, insert

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Speaker 4: service here that you think there should be, you know,

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Speaker 4: right now during the fires, Like aren't there vans picking

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Speaker 4: people up and taking them to shelter, and it's like

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Speaker 4: that would be wonderful, when there's not. There's never any

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Speaker 4: vans picking people up. Know, even when they open up

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Speaker 4: cooling shelters and warming shelters. The number one barrier we

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Speaker 4: heard from people in the streets is how would I

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Speaker 4: get there? And when I get there, they make me

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Speaker 4: not bring my stuff in, so it's all going to

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Speaker 4: get stolen. There's just all of these barriers that the

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Speaker 4: city is just completely you know, purposely neglecting. They could

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Speaker 4: talk to any of us on how to run a

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Speaker 4: successful you know, warming or cooling shelter, they don't, you know,

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Speaker 4: they have no interest in what we have to say.

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Speaker 4: In fact, our city council person hearing Kytown doesn't respond

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Speaker 4: to any of our inquiries at all. She just flat

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Speaker 4: out doesn't respond to us whenever we email her with

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Speaker 4: concerns or questions. And that's kind of how we've been,

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Speaker 4: you know, working just with the knowledge that we don't

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Speaker 4: have this support of this agency, and in fact they

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Speaker 4: are opposition. You know, we're the ones having to organize

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Speaker 4: around them and what they're doing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sadly not that dissimilar here, Like every time

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Speaker 2: it rains, people will die.

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Speaker 3: Every time we have heat wave.

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Speaker 2: I remember they found the remains of an in house

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Speaker 2: person a couple of years ago, and they thought the

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Speaker 2: person had been burned like like by fire, and it

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Speaker 2: turned out they had just been exposed to massive amounts

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Speaker 2: of heat. And yeah, I remember a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 2: just like give an anecdote, it was I think above

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Speaker 2: one hundred degrees in town. It was so hot, and

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Speaker 2: I was in the river bed like I had this

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Speaker 2: big insulated backpack to give people cold water, and just

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Speaker 2: like dozens of people were in terrible distress. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: there was no presence of police fire and anyone to help.

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Speaker 2: Right Like we have these sometimes billion dollar police departments

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Speaker 2: in these cities, and people are still unsafe and they

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Speaker 2: don't feel safe reaching out to any government agencies because

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Speaker 2: these government agencies are the same ones that you say

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Speaker 2: that throw away their shit, that destroy all the little

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Speaker 2: things that they've been trying to build up to get onto,

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Speaker 2: you know, like a better situation in life.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think there's this sense of like apathy

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Speaker 4: that has built and rightfully so, from the people that

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Speaker 4: live on the streets where we've you know, relayed messages

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Speaker 4: that we've heard like hey, two one one says they

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Speaker 4: have one hundred shelter beds tonight, call and see if

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Speaker 4: you can get in, and they're like, okay, you know,

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Speaker 4: like I'll give it a shot, you know, And it's

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Speaker 4: very well received because we understand the amount of disappointment

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Speaker 4: these people have gone through when they do the care

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Speaker 4: plus sweeps, which is in itself such an evil name, yea,

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Speaker 4: when they throw all their stuff away when they show

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Speaker 4: up and they do care Plus, they show up with

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Speaker 4: a social worker first, which if I was a social worker,

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Speaker 4: I'd be kicking and screaming about how damaging that is

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Speaker 4: that right before they throw away everything that an non

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Speaker 4: house person owns, they send in a loan social worker

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Speaker 4: to write their names and maybe their numbers down and

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Speaker 4: tell them that the shelters are full, but they'll get

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Speaker 4: back to them, and then they have all of their

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Speaker 4: belongings droven away. I can't imagine the harm that has

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Speaker 4: done for just trusting services even when they're available, you know,

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Speaker 4: accessing them and then giving them your information. Have one

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Speaker 4: person who rightfully so told me they have trauma about

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Speaker 4: filling out forms because they've done this three hundred times,

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Speaker 4: you know, they said something incredible. They've been counting about

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Speaker 4: how many times they've filled the same forms out to

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Speaker 4: have it lead nowhere. And I can't imagine, you know,

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Speaker 4: that kind of resilience. Now, with this devastation, there's going

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Speaker 4: to be a lot of homeowners who are going to

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Speaker 4: experience that firsthand. I'm seeing a lot of people that

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Speaker 4: are homeless for the first time ever in their lives,

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Speaker 4: like in their late fifties. And these are people that

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Speaker 4: have owned homes, that have worked careers, that have you know,

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Speaker 4: lived their whole life as you're supposed to you in

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Speaker 4: the United States, and then in their elder years, befall

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Speaker 4: some sort of disaster or social Security doesn't pay anymore,

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Speaker 4: and they are severely shocked when I tell them what

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Speaker 4: the landscape of our social safety net looks like. I've

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Speaker 4: had people ask me like where do I go to

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Speaker 4: sign up for free housing? And I have to tell them,

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Speaker 4: you know, the wait list for vouchers is fifteen years,

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Speaker 4: is long, and it's a lottery. The list is closed

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Speaker 4: because it's so full. You can apply to senior housing,

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Speaker 4: but that's about a ten year wait, you know, that

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Speaker 4: I have to be the one to tell them that,

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Speaker 4: and that's sort of shock I think is going to

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Speaker 4: be hitting a lot of folks that have never tried

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Speaker 4: to access services before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, let's take a little break here for some

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Speaker 2: advertisements and then we'll come back. All right, we're back.

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Speaker 2: So Yeah, I think anyone who's familiar with the situation

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Speaker 2: facing unhoused people in southern California will understand that there

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Speaker 2: is not a safety net, and that's about to become

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Speaker 2: more profoundly obvious than ever for thousands of people. Let's

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Speaker 2: talk about the way that people are helping to take

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Speaker 2: care of one another, because I think that's that's what

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Speaker 2: always happened to these situations. So let's talk about the

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Speaker 2: mutual aid effort. Maybe you could like talk about some

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Speaker 2: of the groups, talk about some of the things you've

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Speaker 2: been doing, and then I want to get onto how

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Speaker 2: people can help if they're in town, and how people

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Speaker 2: can help if they are a long way away.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: In LA, we have a very robust network of mutual

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Speaker 4: aid groups that have been built by force, honestly, via

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Speaker 4: this government. I think a lot of them have started

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Speaker 4: up to step in just there's no denying all over

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Speaker 4: La that there's this crisis because you walk outside of

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Speaker 4: your house and there are people sleeping on your street.

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Speaker 4: You know, there's people digging through your garbage. So we've

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Speaker 4: seen this blossoming of mutual aid groups all over the city,

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Speaker 4: and we in times of crisis, you know, will spark

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Speaker 4: up a signal group that grows from zero to thousands

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Speaker 4: of people overnight that are willing to jump in and

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Speaker 4: get their hands dirty to coalesce and find resources. You know,

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Speaker 4: here's where we're buying masks. This star is out, don't

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Speaker 4: go to this one. Go to that one who's reimbursing

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Speaker 4: people for a gas et cetera, et cetera. And it's

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Speaker 4: normal people. You know, I have a full time job.

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Speaker 4: My friends here in Ktown for all. Some are teachers,

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Speaker 4: some are in the movie industry, you know, some are

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Speaker 4: random lawyers you know that will take their time out

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Speaker 4: to do this work. And I think that it's beautiful

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Speaker 4: in the sense that we get people the help they

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Speaker 4: need and it's never enough, which is crushing. Here in Ktown.

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Speaker 4: We give supplies to about four hundred or so on

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Speaker 4: house people a week minimum, and that is hygiene supplies

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Speaker 4: tense blankets, We connect them to any services that they

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Speaker 4: might ask us to connect them to, driving them to

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Speaker 4: the hospital, et cetera. And this has been going on

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Speaker 4: for the last five years. And Ktown for All specifically

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Speaker 4: started as a counter protest because there was an attempt

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Speaker 4: to build a showter here in Koreatown and some homeowners

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Speaker 4: organized against it. They marched down Wiltshire and shut it down.

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Speaker 4: And our founders found each other because they were the

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Speaker 4: only five people holding up we Want Shelter Science and

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Speaker 4: just started doing distribution themselves. And I think that's one

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Speaker 4: thing that I would really suggest to folks is it's

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Speaker 4: not as intimidating as it seems to start one of

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Speaker 4: these projects. It's literally you and a couple of friends

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Speaker 4: who decide that you're going to do something, and you

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Speaker 4: acknowledge that you can't do everything and that you'll never

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Speaker 4: be able to meet the need because what we need

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Speaker 4: is a government who cares about people. But in the meanwhile,

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Speaker 4: we're going to do the best we can, and the

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Speaker 4: lives of the you know, now four hundred or so

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Speaker 4: people that we see every week are a little better

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Speaker 4: because we decide to do that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's really important to say that, Like

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Speaker 2: it can seem really overwhelming. This is an email I

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Speaker 2: get almost every week, like how do I start a

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Speaker 2: mutual aid group? Like if you can make a sandwich,

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Speaker 2: then you and you can start a mutual aid group.

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Speaker 2: Like just go and feed people who are hungry. If

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Speaker 2: someone's cold, give them a blanket. Like it doesn't have

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Speaker 2: to be like you don't have to read seventeen books,

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Speaker 2: you know, and be like starting a five H one,

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Speaker 2: C three and stuff.

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Speaker 3: You just need to do things.

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Speaker 2: And I think, especially like we're going into a new administration,

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Speaker 2: we're going to see the state being more hostile to

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Speaker 2: people who already marginalized. And like, the best advice I

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Speaker 2: have for people is to get off the internet and

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Speaker 2: to get into the streets and just do something. It

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter if you say you won't be able to

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Speaker 2: do everything, not right away, maybe one day we will,

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Speaker 2: but like doing something is a lot better than doing nothing,

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Speaker 2: and I guarantee it is also much better for you

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Speaker 2: and you're met, Like I feel so much better when

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Speaker 2: I'm able to help people. I wouldn't be able to

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Speaker 2: do the job I do at the border if I

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Speaker 2: wasn't also able to help people like it. It helps

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Speaker 2: me feel like I'm not part of the problem, I guess,

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Speaker 2: or like we're doing something about it at least. What

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Speaker 2: are people doing right now to help people who are

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Speaker 2: impacted by the fire. What are the needs that are

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Speaker 2: arising and how people meeting them?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, Ktown for all focuses here in the Ktown neighborhood,

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Speaker 4: and what we've particularly focused on is mass distribution. People

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Speaker 4: are sitting and it's literally raining ash in some areas

375
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Speaker 4: and are sitting in the suot, So there's that. There's

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Speaker 4: basic tent and tarp gathering meals. So many emergency services

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Speaker 4: shut down during disasters, you know, makes sense, but a

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Speaker 4: lot of food kitchens that people would get meals from

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Speaker 4: are not open right now. So it's getting people food,

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Speaker 4: getting people water just enough to survive. In other areas,

381
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Speaker 4: folks are gathering supplies. There's all Power Books that is

382
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Speaker 4: a big distribution site right now. Po Mutuoid out in

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Speaker 4: the Palms area is doing a lot of really great work.

384
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Speaker 4: The South Bay got swept last night, so South Bay

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Speaker 4: Mutuo Aid Club is replacing tents this morning. There's a

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Speaker 4: lot of the Pet Mutuo Aid groups who are gathering

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Speaker 4: pet food and finding foster homes for a lot of

388
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Speaker 4: the found dogs and cats. It's just I mean, I

389
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Speaker 4: can't even list the amount of people right now that

390
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 4: are like in their vehicles doing drop offs to you know,

391
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Speaker 4: the sidewalk project. There's a big skid row distribution point

392
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Speaker 4: that is building up crowdsourcing insulin things that like you

393
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Speaker 4: don't think about that people ran out of their house

394
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Speaker 4: that they need to live. They don't have time to

395
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Speaker 4: go get a prescription right you know at a primary

396
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Speaker 4: care provider like that, we need albuterol that people are

397
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Speaker 4: having asthma attacks. So there's these kind of burdens that

398
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Speaker 4: mutuoid projects get around because people a don't have to

399
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Speaker 4: fill out any forms, they don't have to wait. If

400
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Speaker 4: we have it, you're going to be handed it. And

401
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 4: you know, even medical providers as part of our projects

402
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Speaker 4: have become a really big support as people on the

403
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Speaker 4: streets are often very disabled. We have a lot of

404
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Speaker 4: folks at diabetes, like diabetic open wounds, like just very

405
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Speaker 4: horrible injuries that need constant care. All Power Bookstore has

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Speaker 4: a free clinic, All Power Clinic and they offer free

407
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Speaker 4: medical care and come with us on our roots here

408
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Speaker 4: in Katown to offer free treatment for folks. And I

409
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Speaker 4: think that's something that is going to only grow, as

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Speaker 4: you said, as this administration occurs. Homelessness rose eighteen percent

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Speaker 4: in the last year, and that's only been the case

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Speaker 4: every year since we started counting. There is no way

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Speaker 4: this administration is going to institute rent control or anything

414
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Speaker 4: that keeps people from being displaced. One mutuoid project that

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Speaker 4: I think people overlook often is the tenants unions, the

416
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Speaker 4: LA Tenants Union mobilizing to care for their members, checking

417
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Speaker 4: in on their disabled members. These kind of community based

418
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Speaker 4: organizations where people know people, they know who to check

419
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Speaker 4: up on, they know who's vulnerable. Those kind of organizations

420
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Speaker 4: are invaluable in emergencies like these.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, And like I one good thing that can

422
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Speaker 2: come out of this is that we can build stronger communities,

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Speaker 2: right and we can hopefully folks who are finding themselves

424
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Speaker 2: depending on mutual aid for the first time can realize that,

425
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Speaker 2: like they can participate in that. And I know there

426
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Speaker 2: are folks already why who have lost their homes who

427
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Speaker 2: are still out there helping other people, driving around, rescuing

428
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Speaker 2: people and stuff.

429
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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think we say this all the time.

430
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Speaker 4: In the homelessness space, you know, you're closer to being

431
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Speaker 4: homeless than you are to be a billionaire. And I

432
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Speaker 4: think this is one of the most direct examples, Like

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Speaker 4: these people might have been well off maybe a month

434
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Speaker 4: or two ago, and then now they have zero. You know,

435
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 4: they're going to be fighting with insurance companies for maybe

436
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 4: five years, you know, if some of them, and hopefully,

437
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,719
Speaker 4: you know, they end up recovering. But I hope they

438
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:46,520
Speaker 4: don't forget that climate change and emergency disasters are a

439
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 4: great equalizer. And the people that show their faces, they're

440
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 4: not the politicians, they're not the lobbyists, they're not you know,

441
00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 4: the Democratic Party. You know, TM, it's your neighbor who

442
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 4: has a mask for you. It's me, someone random from

443
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 4: down the block, who got a couple friends together, who

444
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 4: has water for you. You know, like that's who comes through,

445
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 4: and that's who you need to care for all the time,

446
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 4: including your un housed neighbors that are around you all

447
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 4: the time, who live in your community and who face

448
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 4: this emergency every day. You know, they don't know where

449
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,360
Speaker 4: they're going to sleep every night, they don't know where

450
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 4: their next meal is coming from. Every day, they get

451
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 4: their stuff destroyed by the state, you know, regularly, if

452
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 4: not once a week, very frequently, And I hope this

453
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 4: is really sad, but I hope it forces some empathy

454
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 4: in people who otherwise don't think about themselves in this

455
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 4: context of being a human that needs food, water, and shelter,

456
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 4: you know, the basics.

457
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, talking food, water, and shelter the things I need

458
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,719
Speaker 2: as well, and so to pay for them, I have

459
00:23:52,800 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 2: to pivot to ads. Now, Okay, we're back. I think

460
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 2: that was a really good plug for like why Muti

461
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 2: Lady is important and hopefully there are people who are

462
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 2: listening right or people who are finding themselves for the

463
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 2: first time interested in helping seeing a crisis. A lot

464
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 2: of people like will ask me if they can come

465
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 2: help at the border, and of course you can, but

466
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 2: you should also help in your own community because there

467
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: are people who need you there, and obviously that's very

468
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 2: true in LA right now. So I want to give

469
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: some resources some ways people can help if people are

470
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,239
Speaker 2: listening in LA, what are some like I know there

471
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: are all kinds of efforts, but what are some concrete

472
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 2: things they can do or some places they can go

473
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 2: if they're in a situation where they're not massively impacted

474
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 2: by the fires and they want to help other people.

475
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:48,959
Speaker 3: What are some things they can do?

476
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 4: You're free to follow kitown for all on Instagram. We

477
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 4: are constantly uploading on our stories year round. Fundraisers, resource requests,

478
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 4: go fundmes, et cetera. We really try to stay connected

479
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 4: with the LA Mutual Aid network, and honestly, once you

480
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 4: follow one of us, you kind of follow all of

481
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 4: us because we're very supportive of each other's effort. Mutual

482
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 4: Aid LA is a good hub. They have a magazine

483
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 4: that gets published every month that has a list of

484
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 4: mutual aid programs all over LA. If you can't come

485
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 4: out on physical outreach with us, which we do on

486
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 4: Saturdays every Saturday except the first Saturday of the month

487
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 4: when we do our planning meeting, you're free to help us,

488
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 4: you know, connect with others. You're free to help us financially.

489
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 4: But we also you know, funny you mentioned this, James,

490
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 4: But if you DM us and you're like, hey, I

491
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 4: want to talk to someone about starting a project in

492
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 4: my region, I'm so happy to hop on a zoom

493
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 4: with you. Tell you how we do our distribution, tell

494
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 4: you how we make our maps, of encampments, tell you

495
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 4: how we you know, fund and routsource always happy to

496
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 4: find that knowledge and people messages all the time. Can

497
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 4: we start a Neighborhood for All chapter? And we're like,

498
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 4: we're so honored that you would do that. Please don't ask,

499
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 4: but you're totally welcome to. And so we have Pasadena

500
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 4: for All that is doing great work, and Pasadena for

501
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 4: All is definitely always in need of support. They are

502
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 4: in a huge disaster zone Altadena, Pasadena, like all those

503
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 4: areas are been evacuated. Palms Mutoid. But yeah, if you

504
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 4: want to stay connected, you know, follow us on Instagram,

505
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 4: Ktown for All, same Twitter, same on Blue Sky and

506
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 4: will hopefully be your input into the La Mutoid scene.

507
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 4: We're always so happy to support anyone else doing this work.

508
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 4: And while we focus in the Ktown neighborhood, LA is

509
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 4: a giant place. And if you have any neighborhoods in

510
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 4: Los Angeles that you feel passionate about or need extra attention,

511
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 4: you know, we'll always be the ones to uplift those.

512
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really cool. I think it's really important that

513
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 3: we share.

514
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 2: Like one of my friends when we were doing border stuff,

515
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: made a website where we documented all the stuff we

516
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: did so that it was open source and available to people,

517
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: like how we built shelters and how we could But yeah,

518
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: we don't need to reinvent the wheel every time. Like

519
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: we can all help each other get that start and

520
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 2: not make the mistakes so we all make So that's

521
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 2: really cool that people can reach out to you. What

522
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 2: about if they're a long way away and they just

523
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 2: want to send some money, They want to help and

524
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 2: they've got money they want to share.

525
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're always welcome to venmo us kton for all.

526
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 4: Same on venmo. We have a PayPal link, We have

527
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 4: a website, kton for all dot org. We are five

528
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 4: oho and C three. If you'd like to donate in

529
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 4: our you know, in some kind of corporate fancy way,

530
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 4: feel free to dm us. We just got that figured out.

531
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 4: But yeah, all of our money gets spent directly on

532
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 4: material goods. We don't have any employees, we don't have

533
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 4: any overhead. Our volunteers are up to their necks and

534
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 4: baby wipes usually when we get you know, sock donations

535
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 4: and things like that, And honestly, we prefer it that

536
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 4: way just because you know, we we know what nonprofit

537
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 4: requirements are like and that kind of burden that that

538
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 4: place is on mutuoid projects and we're trying to avoid them,

539
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 4: so every time still goes to supplies, and I know

540
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 4: every mutoid project. Jaytown Action in Japantown as well operates

541
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 4: in a very similar model. I would just suggest people

542
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 4: get plugged in to mutuoid La. They follow us on Instagram,

543
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 4: feel free to send any money, work constantly on our stories,

544
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 4: uploading gofundmes and venmos and stuff. I really appreciate their

545
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 4: help you out of the country and hope that one

546
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 4: day orgs like ours are not needed anymore because we

547
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 4: live in a great world.

548
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that'd be nice.

549
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: Is there anything else, like, do you have any bottlenecks

550
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: or particular shortages that you want to shout out that

551
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: the audience can maybe.

552
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 3: Help you with.

553
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 4: We're always looking for staples, so those are tents and

554
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 4: tarps constantly. Those are often the most expensive items people

555
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 4: have to purchase. Tents go about thirty to forty dollars

556
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 4: each one, and the government throws a lot of them

557
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 4: away every week. So those items. Feel free to always

558
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 4: DM me if you have some that you would like

559
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 4: to drop off. But I will say mutual aid orgs

560
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 4: are really good at building connections directly with vendors and

561
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 4: we usually get like a discount and buying in bulk.

562
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 4: So I would really love to shake people from their

563
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 4: fear of donating cash.

564
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I.

565
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 4: Know a lot of folks feel comfortable like buying an

566
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 4: item because you know that that's the item that's given out.

567
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 4: But sometimes we get a better deal buying a thousand

568
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 4: of those tenths, and your dollar goes farther. So you know,

569
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 4: tense blankets, and again, don't be afraid to do this

570
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 4: by yourself. Like you can go to home depot and

571
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 4: buyotent and hand it to someone. You can go to

572
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 4: home depot and buy masks right now and hand them

573
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 4: to someone. You don't have to wait for a group

574
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 4: like this to be around and to help, particularly if

575
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 4: your neighborhood needs you.

576
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's a really good message. It's a good

577
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 3: place to end.

578
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: Just to remind everyone, it's at Ktown for All on

579
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: Instagram and k Town for All on Venmo.

580
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: Right, yep, great, thanks so.

581
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 4: Much, thank you so much.

582
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: Oh it could happen here. A podcast from CEES The

583
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: Consumer Electronics Show twenty twenty five. I am here with

584
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: my friend and work partner, Garrison Davis. We have been

585
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: trotting the boards, the boards being the Las Vegas Convention

586
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: Center all day. Garrison, today, you started earlier than I

587
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: did because I was catastrophically hungover after getting very drunk

588
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: with the priest last night. Yeah, we had a nice

589
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: dinner and then we set out to experience a fresh

590
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: new hell. And in this case, that fresh new hell

591
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: was what the AI bros Have ready for your children.

592
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 5: No, it's funny how we both stumbled across AI products

593
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 5: for kids like the same day, during the exactly same time.

594
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: Uh huh. Yeah, it really is remarkable that, Like, yeah,

595
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: I guess in part just because like Betty is such

596
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: a focus. I think it has something to do with

597
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: what you saw some of yesterday where and I had

598
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: caught a little the day before where they're like, yeah,

599
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: they don't really like this stuff. We're gonna have to

600
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: get around it. Like obviously this is inevitable, but like

601
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: people really also seem to not enjoy it very much.

602
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: No one can explain why, but I think that this

603
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,479
Speaker 1: may be like, Okay, well, if we get them when

604
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: they're young enough, if we train these kids. We can

605
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: force this on them and they'll have no choice but

606
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: to like it.

607
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 5: And it's interesting to say that because the first thing

608
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 5: I did today was go to a panel at the

609
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 5: Venetian titled Raising AI Kids Responsibly, which is maybe the

610
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 5: best title for any single panel.

611
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's fucked up.

612
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 5: The description was a new generation of kids are being

613
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 5: brought up with AI technologies as a part of their lives.

614
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 5: How does this affect their learning, entertainment and socialization? Which

615
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 5: is a good question. Yeah, we should be asked that,

616
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 5: more people should. There was four people on the panel,

617
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 5: Karen Ruth Wong from Ido, Play Lab Partnerships, Nilo Lewick

618
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 5: from Skyrocket Toys, Melissa Hunter from Family Video Network, and

619
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 5: Joshua Garrett from a Ready Land. And I'll talk about

620
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 5: all these all these different companies and people in a

621
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 5: sec Yeah. So the panel started with Karen Ruth Wang

622
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 5: from Ido, which is the company that first partnered with

623
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 5: sessing me a Workshop to start making online apps. So,

624
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 5: you know, that was interesting to me because sess me

625
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 5: a Workshop generally puts a lot of care into, like

626
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 5: you know, making media for children. This is a company

627
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 5: that works with them, so I was interested in what

628
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 5: she was going to say, and basically she talked not

629
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 5: about any products that her company's making, but instead research

630
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 5: into how like AI is affecting gen Z, how gen

631
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 5: Z wants to like interact with AI, and talked about

632
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 5: a whole bunch of research that her company has been

633
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 5: doing for the past few years on like what people

634
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 5: you know, my age and you know younger, what they're

635
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 5: attitudes are towards this thing that has become like an

636
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 5: increasingly encroaching part of their lives. I'm just going to

637
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 5: play a series of clips.

638
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: Couldn't be more excited. So I was sharing this.

639
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 6: Morning a little bit about what we're learning.

640
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 7: That question is what if the tech savvy generation isn't

641
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 7: buying anymore? We have a lot of one of the

642
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 7: interesting opinions and assumptions in our heads that these are

643
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 7: the one they are going to be the first users

644
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 7: and the first viewers, and in many ways they are,

645
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 7: but then the ones that also comes the most informed

646
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 7: opinions not just about how badly the tech feels, how

647
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 7: cringey some of them imp be landing, but also how

648
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 7: it's affecting their sense of humanity.

649
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: That's fascinating yeah.

650
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 5: The very first thing this is literally like the minutes

651
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 5: into the panels, is like after they do their introductions,

652
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 5: the first thing to talk about is how gen Z

653
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 5: is both an early adopter of new tech, but they're

654
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 5: also kind of the most AI critical.

655
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 8: Yeah.

656
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's cringey.

657
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, like how it feels cringy and not just that,

658
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 5: how it's affecting people's sense of humanity and viewing them like,

659
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 5: you know, in some ways, as like an obstacle to

660
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 5: get over. But also this is I'm not sure how

661
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 5: I feel about about, like, you know, Karen and the

662
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 5: company she's representing here, because in some ways I felt

663
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 5: like she's probably actually good. She just had to frame

664
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 5: all of the things she was saying as like shocking

665
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 5: revelations to all these tech bros, be like, yeah, actually,

666
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 5: it turns out kids surprisingly don't want their lives run

667
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 5: by AI.

668
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't want to communicate only with AI.

669
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 5: I actually liked what she was saying, it is just

670
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 5: her presentation of it felt kind of odd at times

671
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 5: because because of who the audience is.

672
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: Do you get see do you get the feeling that

673
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: she was like a bad person trying to help like

674
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: other bad people sell poison to children or somebody who

675
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: was trying to like in a way that these guys

676
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: would listen to tell them that what they're doing is in.

677
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 5: Work maybe like twenty eighty so like like a little

678
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 5: bit of like, yeah, we have to sell some of this,

679
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,720
Speaker 5: but mostly it felt like trying to inform people about

680
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 5: how this isn't really what people want and you know,

681
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 5: it has a lot of actual drawbacks. Here's a clip

682
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 5: of Karen talking about the sort of questions that they're

683
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 5: asking kids to you know, get data on how they

684
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 5: feel about AI.

685
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 7: Here's a few provocative ones. We really put tangible expressions

686
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 7: what it.

687
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 6: Would be like to interact with.

688
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 7: A potential AI tool, And so we asked questions like, Okay,

689
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 7: you've recently had a friend breakup. What kind of intervention

690
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 7: do you want? Do you want someone to counsel you

691
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 7: through that process or do you want someone to kind

692
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 7: of replace their friend for the time being, just you

693
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 7: can you know, back yourself out from that relationship. So

694
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 7: by asking really tangible questions, by putting prototypes in front

695
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 7: of youth, we were able to co design to view

696
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 7: insights at this one always gets all audience members. We

697
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 7: put out a provocational expression of Imagine you could have

698
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 7: an AI trained on your preferences, on your personalities, live

699
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 7: your life for you. Imagine they can swipe your tender

700
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 7: for you. They would have the any conversations or they

701
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 7: would go through the awkward introductions you know, new person

702
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 7: in school.

703
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 6: And we heard some really interesting things.

704
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 7: I want to go on a bad day for myself

705
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,280
Speaker 7: and I want to have that davcation.

706
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 6: There was a really interesting sign that be able to

707
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 6: live life for yourselves at badge of want.

708
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 5: Being able to live life for yourself is a badge

709
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 5: of honor.

710
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: Amazing that human beings don't want a robot to replace

711
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: them in such drudgery as the search for love and

712
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: human connection. Incredible that that teens aren't interested in letting

713
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: a robot go on dates for them.

714
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 5: No, it's super interesting and like even like the first

715
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 5: thing she said about you know you like lost some friends.

716
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 5: Do you want an AI to like, you know, like

717
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 5: counsel you or like you know, like like like talk

718
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 5: about your feelings or do you want a friend replacement?

719
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 5: And no, people don't want a friend replacement. And this

720
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 5: even like honor question of like you know, like AI

721
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 5: swiping your Tinder for you trying to figure out what

722
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 5: your preferences are. No, like gen Z wants to live

723
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 5: life for themselves. It's like it's odd because I.

724
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: Because that's what being a person, that's to be a person.

725
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 5: That's right, But like it's all how that's framed as

726
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 5: like a surprising revelation.

727
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 1: Wow, these kids want to live lives.

728
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 5: So yeah, it was it was a kind of an

729
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 5: odd pedal to go to. She highlighted that the key

730
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 5: areas of tension in AI for for gen Z is

731
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 5: twofold a creative expression and human relationships. These are the

732
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 5: two biggest things that people are concerned about is how

733
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 5: how will affect your ability to you know, make art

734
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 5: be creative and what it means for like, you know,

735
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 5: relationships as a human being, right, especially if you're being

736
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 5: asked questions about you know, would you let an AI

737
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 5: like meet someone that you want to date first, have

738
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:37,800
Speaker 5: have them go through like a first like fake AI

739
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 5: date to like to like get through like icebreaker questions

740
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 5: or something.

741
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: The amount of people I meet who feel that way

742
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: about like their digital twins or like who take pride

743
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: in having like an ai trained off of their social

744
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: media posts at events like these. It's shocking to me

745
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: because like, do you feel good about saying that a

746
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: chat bought you feel like it is you that you

747
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: have trained to chatbot to be a reasonable simulacrum of yourself.

748
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: Do you feel good about thinking that? Does that make

749
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: you happy about yourself?

750
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 9: Well?

751
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 5: And the data that person was talking about showed no, like, yeah,

752
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 5: people actually don't want these things, Like no, that's actually

753
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,439
Speaker 5: is it what anyone wants out of life? This isn't

754
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 5: what anyone wants out of this technology, right, Like we

755
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 5: use AI all the time, you know, like like you know,

756
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 5: like auto complete. It has a whole bunch of like

757
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 5: you know, pretty basic uses.

758
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it saves me from having dispel certain words too

759
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: many times.

760
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, but we don't want it to like go on

761
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 5: dates for us. And the whole part of being human

762
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 5: is having you know, a degree of bad experiences and

763
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 5: that that helps shape us as people. And this isn't

764
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 5: like a hurdle to get over. This is like a

765
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 5: part of what it means to be human. And then

766
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 5: she kind of talked about that a little bit more

767
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 5: in this last clip that I'll play.

768
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 6: The next one here. I prefer to give opportunities to

769
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 6: people over technology.

770
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,479
Speaker 7: I think these are the ones, and again they've seen

771
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 7: what it's like full overplaced. I'll definitely share a lot more,

772
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 7: but starting off with a few key learnings gen Z's

773
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 7: value advice and perspective from lived experience.

774
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:11,720
Speaker 6: There's something about designing for friction.

775
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 7: I'm gonnay like a design for friction in our age

776
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 7: of optimization and our age of assuming that everything should

777
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 7: move as fast as possible to make life as smooth

778
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 7: as possible. There's something about the challenge and that comes

779
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 7: back to play, right, Why would we spend so much

780
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 7: time to hit a ball several hundred yards away.

781
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 6: There's something about the joy of achieving, the joy.

782
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 7: Of overcoming challenge, the joy of bringing through your first

783
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 7: friend break up, your boyfriend or girl friend breakup.

784
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 6: That makes you to a person.

785
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 7: And as many times as helicopter parents or as people

786
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 7: who are designed technology assume that the smoothest possible path

787
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 7: is the best possible path.

788
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 1: There's some push back there, some pushback, some pushback to

789
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: the idea that like you should live a life, your

790
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: one precious life should be lived.

791
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 5: No, there's a a bunch of interesting stuff there. Gen

792
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 5: Z has great fears about being replaced. Yeah, you know,

793
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 5: like having like workforce replacement gen Z prefers to actually

794
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 5: like make connections and network with other people our age

795
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 5: and actually like share opportunities.

796
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

797
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 5: In previous panels, this was something that was also talked

798
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 5: about how millennials were way more like selective about like

799
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 5: sharing like employment opportunities because they were like so focused

800
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 5: on like making sure that they make it and there's

801
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 5: a lot more like like open collaboration and sharing sharing opportunities.

802
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: It's harder, so you guys have to be better about that.

803
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no talking about you know, like designing for friction.

804
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 5: There's like there's value in something being challenging.

805
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: That was very interesting because the surprise about that because

806
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: it is it is this kind of I'm sure most

807
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: of these people were born to wealth and privilege and

808
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: the first thing that people do with money, the primary

809
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,439
Speaker 1: reason to have money is to reduce friction. The fact

810
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: that that's surprising to anyone that like, no, like friction's

811
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: necessary otherwise you're not a person. I mean, it's like that.

812
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: It's like the Gooule we saw the other night, right,

813
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: like you know, they're just not really people, you know.

814
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 5: One thing she kind of closed on in this section

815
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 5: is talking about how gen Z does not trust AI

816
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 5: to understand the nuance of their lives, especially in this

817
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 5: age of like tech optimization. Like that misses a part

818
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:17,919
Speaker 5: of what it means to, like, you know, feel proud

819
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 5: of yourself and the work that you've done.

820
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

821
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 5: Something she should talk about at the very end of

822
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 5: the panel was like how they hadn't factored in like

823
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 5: like gen Z, you know and people in general, right,

824
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 5: will will feel proud about, you know, making a piece

825
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,479
Speaker 5: of art, yeah, and they don't have that same sense

826
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 5: of pride for an AI generated image, no, whether it's

827
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 5: like a screenplay, whether it's whatever. Someone gave an example of, like,

828
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 5: you know, I have a kid who does creative stuff.

829
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 5: They edit videos, right, and there is AI tools that

830
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 5: make editing videos like easier, But if the AI does

831
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 5: all the work, they don't feel happy about that, Like

832
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 5: they don't feel proud, They don't feel like they've actually

833
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 5: achieved something. And you have to feel proud about the

834
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 5: work that you've done, so like there's actually a sense

835
00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 5: of like ownership over like the art that we create.

836
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 7: Eight.

837
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 5: An exact quote was quote you can't eliminate life formative aspects.

838
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: Which which is like, yes, it is called life. Yeah,

839
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: you don't ever have anything.

840
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 5: I'm happy someone at CS is saying this, the fact

841
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 5: that it needs to be said.

842
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: At all very bleak, very sad. It's really bleak. Yeah,

843
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: dating people, making friends, being social, doing whatever it is

844
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 1: you do for a living as yourself is what life

845
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: is like.

846
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 10: Yeah.

847
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 5: I think last thing that you talked about is like

848
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 5: gen Z aren't technophobes, but they do have strong boundaries.

849
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 11: Yeah.

850
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 5: Good, and they have to reinforce their own sense of

851
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 5: self because we're constantly being bombarded with you know, slop content, influencers, podcasts,

852
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 5: live streams, like everything you know, TikTok social media. So

853
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 5: we have strongly boundaries on how tech it like integrates

854
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 5: into our lives. And a lot of the way these

855
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 5: tech bros want AI to like become more invasive. We

856
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 5: are not super into no.

857
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: Like all they're offering people is like this this machine

858
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: will do everything that you actually want to do with

859
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: your time, and also you won't have a job, like

860
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: that's what big tech is promising gen Z.

861
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's how I started my day speaking.

862
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: Of gen z. Z stands for zillions of dollars that

863
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: will get if you listen to these ads and we're back.

864
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 5: So unfortunately, that panel wasn't just talking about how kids

865
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 5: maybe don't want AI to run their lives. It also

866
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 5: had two other people from AI products. The first one

867
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 5: that I'll mention is called ready Land, which I think

868
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 5: I think partnered with Amazon ors to some degree. It

869
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 5: at least uses like Amazon Alexa's essentially a chooser own

870
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 5: adventure story book with like a natural physical copy that

871
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 5: Alexa will read to you and you can talk to

872
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,760
Speaker 5: it so you can talk to characters and choose different pathways.

873
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 5: I was more skeptical out of that first, because I

874
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 5: just don't like AI's reading books to kids. Became more

875
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 5: like an interactive story thing, and it actually seemed kind

876
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 5: of good at what it was doing. And then the

877
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 5: guy behind it clarified ready Land is not using AI

878
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 5: to generate new content for kids. It's all like pre programmed,

879
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 5: like human paths, you know, just with so many variables

880
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 5: already built in based on you know, like if you're

881
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 5: making food in one of these books, or like you know,

882
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 5: a kid wants to go on like a weird side quest.

883
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 5: The AI already has like stuff for how to handle that. Yeah,

884
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 5: he knows how to say these words and knows how

885
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 5: to stitch together these things. But it's not actually generating

886
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 5: new content itself. It's if everything is like pre baked,

887
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 5: it can be assembled in many different ways. Okay, so

888
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 5: every time you read a book to the kid, it'll

889
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 5: be slightly different because the kid will respond to certain

890
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 5: plot elements. The kid can like talk to talk to characters,

891
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,280
Speaker 5: ask questions. So like this was this was actually pretty interesting.

892
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 5: The fact that it's simply not even generating new content

893
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 5: makes it miles better than any of these other AI

894
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 5: Kids products.

895
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 1: That it's actually just kind of using some of the

896
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: tech that makes up AI exactly allow you to make

897
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: something humans wrote more reactive exactly.

898
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, So like it's it's it's it's actually like a

899
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 5: pretty interesting piece of technology, and it's not just Alexa

900
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 5: reading a story book. It has like a large interactive

901
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 5: element which you know that makes the Alexa part, you know,

902
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 5: actually useful. And then there was this other product what

903
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 5: was this what what was this one called? It's from

904
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 5: coming called Skyrocket Toys, Hoe the AI Teddy Bear or

905
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 5: something like that, pokay Hoe the AI Bear, which does

906
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,439
Speaker 5: generate live content with with guardrails. He did say, oh good,

907
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 5: but the AI content both comes from the input and

908
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 5: the output. You talked about guardrails, you know, he said.

909
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 5: You know, chat gpt does have internal guardrails, but the

910
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:50,399
Speaker 5: reliability is suspect, which there certainly is, considering just last

911
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 5: week there was a piece of news about chat gpt

912
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 5: helping someone build a bomb.

913
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which they used in just this magical city.

914
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 5: Yes, so he didn't say that like guardrail reliability can

915
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 5: be so, but there is a difference when you have

916
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 5: certainly like like more like child's friendly features turned on.

917
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 5: But he admitted that like moderation is part of the challenge.

918
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 5: I don't know. He basically how this works is you

919
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 5: have an app synced up with this AI teddy bear

920
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 5: that talks with a not very pleasing voice.

921
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: Oh I got to hear it.

922
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 5: Do you want me to pull this up? Yes?

923
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely?

924
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, But basically you put in a whole bunch

925
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 5: of story inputs, being like I want the story set

926
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 5: in this place, I want it featuring these types of characters.

927
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 5: I want this archetype to be the villain, or it

928
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 5: has like dozens or not hundreds of like eve like

929
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 5: archetypal things that you can like click and then the

930
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 5: teddy bear will will generate a new story. So it

931
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 5: is generating new content, but with like pre baked characters. Okay,

932
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 5: so then it'll sit together the story. The weirder you

933
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 5: make the variables, the weirder the story is going to be. Well,

934
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 5: let me play a clip for Robert here.

935
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 12: It's a bright and shiny January morning, the perfect time

936
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 12: for another story. Did you know that in Las Vegas,

937
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 12: where our story takes place, they haven't gigantic called the

938
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 12: high Rowler.

939
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 6: It's taller than the Statue of Liberty.

940
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 1: So the whole in the real world events in places

941
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 1: based on the setting achieves What if I told.

942
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 12: You there's a mystery waiting to be unround at the

943
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 12: consumer Electronic Shoe.

944
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 1: There's excitement here and these that guy like sitting there

945
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: talking almost rolling his eyes at his own product while

946
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 1: it yaps in his lap is a perfect like he

947
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: clearly didn't think about how that would look because it

948
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 1: does not make an appealing ad for the product.

949
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 5: No, so it doesn't sound good. So yeah, they generated

950
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 5: a story set in cees in Las Vegas and he

951
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 5: would occasionally interrupt the bear to like explain what it

952
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 5: was doing. So that was the other product, not nearly

953
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 5: as polished or like really really as thoughtful as like

954
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 5: the AI story book. But you know, maybe if you

955
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 5: are tired of having to, you know, talk to your kid,

956
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 5: you can just get one of these teddy bears to

957
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 5: yeah throw thrown front raise it.

958
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: I mean it looks I think it could probably handle

959
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: all of the physical contact they need too, so you

960
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: don't even need to ever touch your child. And in fact,

961
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: you can just have chat GPT root that through the

962
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 1: bear and never even see your own flesh and blood.

963
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 1: Like I think ideally you would have them cut out

964
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 1: of there, you know, really surgically remove that baby, you know,

965
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 1: a month or two early, and that way you can

966
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 1: kind of absolutely minimize the amount of time that you

967
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 1: ever spend in contact with your spawn.

968
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,439
Speaker 5: One other thing I will add is that the ready

969
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 5: Land guy the AI story book particlarly when talking about,

970
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 5: you know, the importance of guardrails, he said that there's

971
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 5: multiple levels to safety. Right, an AI Kid's robot that

972
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 5: swears right, it's one thing that's it's pretty easy to

973
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 5: avoid actually, Like that's that's pretty easy.

974
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 1: There's a limited number of swear words, right.

975
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 5: And you could just like you could just block out

976
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 5: certain things from happening. Yeah, you can build that in.

977
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 5: But another aspect that's really important to safety is like

978
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 5: the accuracy of the things it's saying, right, Like, what

979
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 5: if it's saying something that's supposed to be you know,

980
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 5: some like factual statement about the world that's just that

981
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 5: just like isn't true or can actually like lead to danger, Right,

982
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 5: what if it tells your kid to do something which

983
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 5: is actually kind of dangerous, or what if it says

984
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 5: like not even not even directly telling them, but you know,

985
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 5: it says something that if the kid then tries to

986
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 5: do that, it's really dangerous. And like this is why

987
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 5: their storybook program, you know, does not generate new content.

988
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,720
Speaker 5: So everything it says is like it's like already pre approved,

989
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 5: Like it already is going to have you know, like

990
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 5: verified like verified safe you know sentences versus this ai

991
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 5: teddy Bear. Because it is generating new content, you know,

992
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 5: it could if things go horribly wrong, you know, talk

993
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 5: about drinking bleach. You know. Yeah, theoretically, you know, it's

994
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 5: just just like something you know, like things can go wrong.

995
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 5: So it's not just about you know, avoiding bad words

996
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 5: or talking about sex or you know those types of

997
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 5: like like inappropriate things. It's also making sure it's not

998
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 5: like hallucinating or saying things that could like lead to

999
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 5: like dangerous situations.

1000
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 1: Right, Well, the good news is that I don't think

1001
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: these are going to be wildly successful products. I mean,

1002
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: I guess we'll see. But these are super expensive and like,

1003
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: did you get a price point for that bear?

1004
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 5: I did not hear her price point for the bear.

1005
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: I'm curious as to what they're going to be charging

1006
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: for it. I mean, we'll see if any of this

1007
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: stuff really does take off. I wouldn't consider it an

1008
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: optimism to hope this stuff takes off, but like, they

1009
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 1: don't seem like great products to me, so I guess

1010
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,240
Speaker 1: we'll see. I read something very interesting that is related exactly,

1011
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 1: and it probably was he might have been talked about

1012
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 1: like that weird bear or something. I read something very

1013
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 1: interesting on the subject of like AI children's toys from

1014
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: a guy who was like an AI developer. This was

1015
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: from a post on Twitter by Alex Volkov. I got

1016
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 1: my six year old daughter an AI toy for her

1017
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: birthday that arrived for Christmas instead, she unpacked it all excited.

1018
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: I explained that this isn't like other toys, that this

1019
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: one has AI in it. She of course knows what

1020
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 1: AI is, seeing the things I've built and interacted with them,

1021
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: chatted with chat GBT and Santa Mode, knows that Daddy

1022
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: is doing AI, et cetera. So a very interesting experiment happened.

1023
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,439
Speaker 1: After Magical Toys reached out and fixed the issue reference below.

1024
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: She started playing with this dino, chatted with it, and

1025
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 1: then learned to turn it off and wanted to talk anymore.

1026
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 1: She still loves playing with it, dressed it up. It

1027
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 1: now has paper shoes in the top hat that we

1028
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: made together. But every time I asked her if she

1029
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 1: liked to chat with it, she says no. A few

1030
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 1: times it turned it back on and she did speak

1031
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: with it for a bit, and then she just turned

1032
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: it off again, not wanting to engage. I gently asked why,

1033
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: and I wasn't really able to understand where there's the resistance.

1034
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: It's not weird to her. In fact, at one point

1035
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: she was pretending that Dinah was a baby and was

1036
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: turned on. So I told her, let's ask it to

1037
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: pretend to be a baby, and it obliged and said okay,

1038
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 1: So we asked it to cry. Granted, they don't have

1039
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: an amazing advanced voice mode like open AI, so it

1040
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: did its best, but it sounded weird, which made her

1041
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: laugh really hard. It was basically making crying sounds like talking,

1042
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 1: and also there are still technical issues. The voice is

1043
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,720
Speaker 1: sometimes choppy, so it could be that it's still uncanny

1044
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: for her. I'm honestly fascinated about why the AI aspect

1045
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,399
Speaker 1: of this didn't connect with my six year old.

1046
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,479
Speaker 5: Because it's creepy, because it's people.

1047
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 1: They don't like it. Nobody wants this. Yeah, ick, yeah, ick.

1048
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 1: I know this is a sample size of one kid here,

1049
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 1: and I'm sure many many things will change. I shall

1050
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: grow and learn to interact with more AIS and different forms.

1051
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,760
Speaker 1: But the first toy contact was interestingly almost a complete failure.

1052
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 5: That is interesting.

1053
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I find that fucking fascinating.

1054
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, No one wants this, even six year olds. You're like, hey,

1055
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 5: I would prefer to a regular toy you can play with.

1056
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 1: I would prefer all pretend it's a robot, but I

1057
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: don't want it to be a robot. That talks to me, Poe.

1058
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 5: The AI bear is fifty dollars on Amazon.

1059
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: Oh that's not bad. Actually, no, that's good. Okay, good,

1060
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: all right, Well maybe maybe we can.

1061
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 5: Even maybe order one and see and see what we

1062
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 5: can get out of it. Yeah, all right, we're gonna

1063
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 5: go on another break and return to talk once acaind

1064
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 5: about AI products for your children. Okay, we're back.

1065
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: So we went and saw something else today while you

1066
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: were at a different chunk of the event talking to

1067
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: yet another flying car company that promises to revolutionize the

1068
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: ease with which we can all do nine to elevens.

1069
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 1: Super excited for that future. By the way, I stumbled

1070
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: upon the booth for a company called TCL, a pretty

1071
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: big company, fairly large, Yeah, large com and make a

1072
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 1: lot of TVs stuff like that. They had a couple

1073
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: of things. They had an AI laundry machine.

1074
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 5: So many air laundry bots.

1075
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, this one was the worst because it's like this

1076
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: little almost a soft rounded pyramid shape. It hangs your laundry.

1077
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 1: They say they can't do folding yet, so it just

1078
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 1: sort of like picks up dry laundry and holds it.

1079
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 5: Like it just suspends it in the air.

1080
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 1: It suspends it in the air inside of itself. And

1081
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 1: also it can only do a kilogram of laundry. The

1082
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: only thing they had in there was like handkerchiefs and scarfs,

1083
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: So it's like probably a couple of thousand dollars, but

1084
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 1: you can AI can clean your handkerchiefs and scarfs.

1085
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 5: As opposed to my regular washing machine.

1086
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they had a washing machine that it can

1087
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: identify and count exactly what clothes are in it, how

1088
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: many of them there are, and it'll tell you the

1089
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 1: soil level and YadA YadA, YadA YadA. Like I'm sure

1090
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: some people changing will want this shit, but it's like, yeah,

1091
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 1: only people who have a lot of money and want

1092
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: to spend it on a laundry machine, because I don't

1093
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: see that it actually reduces the amount of work you

1094
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 1: need to do at this point. But the thing they

1095
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: had at the booth that caught my eye was a

1096
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: robot toy for kids. AI Space Me is the name

1097
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: of the robot. Baby Yoda was a partial inspiration because

1098
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 1: like Ferby, Yeah, poor Ferby, there's some porg in there.

1099
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: It's a two part toy. The interior part is like

1100
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 1: a swaddled up almost looking little porg thing with acute

1101
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,359
Speaker 1: face and the eyes are reasonably good, Like they did

1102
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: a decent job of the eyes not looking creepy, but

1103
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: like that blink and change color and contract and expand,

1104
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: and then it's got like two little flapper arms that

1105
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 1: can like wiggle, and it's seated inside almost like the

1106
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 1: Aliens and independence stay. It's seated inside like this large

1107
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 1: rolling body frame that allows it to move around on

1108
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: the ground. And so it's supposed to like be your

1109
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: child's friend. And the first thing that was upsetting to

1110
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: me because they had this video ad that would play

1111
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 1: every so often and it was very creepy, and you know,

1112
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: I thought back to when we were doing the interview

1113
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: with the guy who had like the robot for old people.

1114
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: He was like, it's very important that it not tell

1115
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: them it loves them. That it like always reiterate that

1116
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: it's a false thing. This robot just keeps telling the kid,

1117
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 1: I love you, like I care for you. When the

1118
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 1: lady did a demo, she was like, it's a toy

1119
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 1: that actually knows and cares about your child and like, no,

1120
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: it's not, No, it's not don't say that. That shouldn't

1121
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 1: be legal for you. To say that for you to

1122
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: sell this to children and tell them it's an intelligent

1123
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,920
Speaker 1: being that loves them is like deeply abusive in my opinion,

1124
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,800
Speaker 1: Like that is actually child abuse because it's not alive anyway.

1125
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 1: So I had to bring Garrison over because you needed

1126
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 1: to see it.

1127
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 5: Oh and saw it, I did.

1128
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm going to play a little clip from

1129
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: the ad, so I want you to hear the way

1130
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: this thing sounds.

1131
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 12: Everywhere learning shut and growingly amy you reminds us sound.

1132
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

1133
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 1: I found that profoundly upsetting disturbing. Yeah, your kid can

1134
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: like pick it up and like walk with it. It'll

1135
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 1: like talk to them, It'll make up stories. It'll like

1136
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 1: look at pictures your kid draws and then generate them

1137
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: into like live AI videos. You can put a pin

1138
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: on and it will record stuff that your kid does

1139
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: and play it back to you at night as a video.

1140
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: So again absolutely minimizing the amount of time you have

1141
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:47,439
Speaker 1: to spend with your child.

1142
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 10: It's in the car.

1143
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:52,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, it takes over your car, so that like it's

1144
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,280
Speaker 1: talking to you from the screens in your car.

1145
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 5: Like the video like taking taking this thing every like

1146
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 5: everywhere the kid goes It's like the kid's main interaction

1147
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 5: with the world, Yeah, is with this little rolling like

1148
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 5: plastic furbie and yeah, like like talking about like like

1149
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 5: expressing like love and like how damaging this must be

1150
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 5: for like a four year old to have. Like the

1151
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 5: first thing that it constantly expressed like love an affection

1152
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 5: for is this little rolling robot that's that you're gonna

1153
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 5: throw in the garbage in like you know, four years

1154
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 5: when you're when you're like too old for it. How

1155
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 5: like traumatizing and like deeply fucked up. That's gonna be

1156
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 5: for your for like your sense of self and like

1157
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:30,439
Speaker 5: love and affection.

1158
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: The mix of things that we're trying to have this do.

1159
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: Like the other ones were build as toys, this was

1160
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: built as like a friend for your child as well

1161
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 1: as like a home assistance. Yeah, it's supposed to also

1162
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 1: act as like it'll change that you can hook it

1163
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: into your smart home so it can change the temperature.

1164
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: Like they did a little in person demo where like

1165
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: a woman pretending to be a mom talked with it

1166
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 1: about like planting, planned a birthday party for her kid

1167
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 1: with it, Yeah, and it like put food in her

1168
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: Amazon cart and like change the temperature inside because more

1169
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: people were coming over. One of the things they advertise

1170
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: is is security mode, where it like travels around your

1171
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 1: house at night and acts as a sentry watching your

1172
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: home like wild stuff.

1173
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 5: No, it's it was Honestly, I've seen a few like

1174
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 5: disturbing things, you know, all of like the the new

1175
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 5: drone tech to have like solar powered drones that can

1176
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 5: stay in the air to drop bombs is like bad,

1177
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:23,919
Speaker 5: But like this type of stuff is like really dehumanizing.

1178
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 5: It really like viscerally upsets me.

1179
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think probably very bad for children. Everything

1180
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: they showed us was incredibly curated, Like I when we

1181
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 1: watched this live thing where she was having a very

1182
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 1: fluid conversation with it that was clearly scripted. Yes, and

1183
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 1: so I wonder how well this thing actually works in practice.

1184
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 5: We never got an actual like live down, No.

1185
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 1: Because they always show it perfectly recognizing the kid, perfectly

1186
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: recognizing like what's in their you know, little kid drawings

1187
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 1: and stuff. What it's supposed to be to make beautiful,

1188
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: creepily shiny AI moving version some stuff. So like I

1189
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: wonder how much less good it's going to be in

1190
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: reality than the thing that they've showed us, but it's

1191
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: definitely some amount shittier than what they've displayed already. And

1192
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: part of why I think that is, like we went

1193
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 1: to check out the booth that this other the South

1194
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: Korean company just called I think sk had like a

1195
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 1: they called it a quantum security camera that was AI enabled,

1196
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: And then thinking about how like in the ads, it

1197
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: always like recognized the kid and its parents and a

1198
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: drawing accurately, Well, this one when I flipped off the

1199
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 1: camera with both middle fingers, recognized it and wrote up

1200
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: a description of a man giving the camera a thumbs up.

1201
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,360
Speaker 1: Like I'm really curious for when these things hit the

1202
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: market and people start buying them, like what sort of

1203
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 1: fucked up stuff it'll do, and how kind of big

1204
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: the seams are. I don't expect a long life for

1205
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 1: this thing, which is going to be funnier because like

1206
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 1: there was already a big eight hundred dollars like Children's

1207
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: Companion AI toy that failed last year and the company

1208
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: shut off access to them, and like so parents had

1209
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 1: to explain to their kids who had bonded with this

1210
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: thing that it was dying forever. And that's especially excited

1211
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: to be because they They've built a robot that talks

1212
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:06,760
Speaker 1: to your kid and tells it it loves them, and

1213
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 1: eventually that robot is going to be taken away from

1214
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: the child by the company when it no longer becomes profitable.

1215
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: And that's I'm excited for that, like new ground and

1216
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: how to fuck up kids. Anyway, that's what I got, Garrison.

1217
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 5: What an uplifting adventures again?

1218
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, that's all. Yeah, it's all great. All right, everybody,

1219
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 1: Well this has been behind the bastards. No it's not,

1220
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 1: or no it's not.

1221
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:31,560
Speaker 5: What is this?

1222
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 1: This has been? It could happen here? A podcast by

1223
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 1: somebody who is slowly going insane.

1224
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, because we're like four days in Vegas now we

1225
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 5: still have one more day.

1226
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: I'm out of my mind. I'm completely broken.

1227
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:47,040
Speaker 5: Uh. Hopefully tomorrow we'll have our final of our like

1228
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 5: on the ground coverage with our with our cees best

1229
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 5: in show. Yeah so and always going to be maybe

1230
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:52,959
Speaker 5: a high note.

1231
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 1: So see you there who.

1232
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 13: Welcome Dick It appen here a podcast increasingly about it

1233
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 13: having happened. We have spent a long time on this

1234
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 13: show talking about what the second Trump administration is going

1235
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 13: to be for trans people and you know, go listen

1236
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 13: to those episodes. The short version is that it is

1237
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 13: going to be very very bad. We're facing care bans,

1238
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 13: we're facing federal funding bands. Things are about to get

1239
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 13: unbelievably bleak. But this campaign didn't come out of nowhere.

1240
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 13: It is the combination of almost a decades worth of

1241
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 13: fighting by the right, And I think we have a

1242
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 13: tendency to treat the rights campaign against trans people as

1243
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 13: something abstract right, as a sort of abstract political debate,

1244
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:51,959
Speaker 13: or even if it affects us, we tend to treat

1245
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 13: the subjects, the immediate subject of the harassment, as sort

1246
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:59,919
Speaker 13: of these distant, famous figures. But the issue with looking

1247
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 13: at it this way is that the harassment, the hatred,

1248
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 13: the violence is happening to real people, with real names

1249
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 13: and faces, who live lives exactly like yours. The difference

1250
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 13: between you sitting in your house right now and someone

1251
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 13: whose face is on TV is about the difference between

1252
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 13: whether a few right wing journalists cover who you are.

1253
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 13: So today we're going to be talking to someone who

1254
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 13: has been subject to almost the entire spectrum and range

1255
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:30,479
Speaker 13: of the sort of emergent far right campaign against trans people,

1256
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 13: who have seen basically the entire campaign against trans people

1257
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 13: evolve specifically in the far right's harassment against them, and

1258
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 13: that person is the artist and musician Precious Child out

1259
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 13: of La Welcome to the show. I wish it was

1260
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 13: under better circumstances.

1261
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 11: Thank you, Thank you for having me mea.

1262
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 1: I glad to be here. Yeah, and I'm excited to

1263
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: talk to you.

1264
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 13: I'm slightly apprehensive in the sense that, my god, this

1265
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 13: stuff sucks.

1266
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 11: But yeah, oh you know, it's it's our lives. What

1267
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 11: can we do?

1268
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1269
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 11: What will we do?

1270
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 8: Wow?

1271
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 13: Yes, that's the question for the end of the episode,

1272
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 13: is what are we going to do about all of

1273
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 13: this shit? But let's go back to sort of the beginning.

1274
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 13: Can you can you sort of talk about your first

1275
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 13: encounter with I guess at that point what was a

1276
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 13: not especially mainstream part of the religious right back in

1277
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 13: night around twenty eighteen.

1278
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:31,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, so I've been I've been making music as Precious

1279
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 8: Child for almost a decade and it was my very

1280
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 8: first album that I put out, one called Trapped, that

1281
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 8: had this track on it titled Phantom, and that was

1282
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 8: an instrumental track with just some kind of whispery vocals.

1283
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 5: You know.

1284
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 8: It wasn't a song per se. It was experimental and

1285
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:51,360
Speaker 8: I put on a music video with it, and it

1286
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 8: was pretty It's pretty creepy and there's flashing lights. You know,

1287
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 8: if you think of movies from the eighties like hal Raiser,

1288
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 8: it's kind of like that, you know, like kind of

1289
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 8: evocrative of some type of greater supernatural horror. And the

1290
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 8: far right at that time, the far right, vintage twenty eighteen,

1291
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 8: they found it and started reporting it on mess and

1292
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 8: tagging their friends and saying report this, report this. And

1293
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 8: this was on Instagram and Facebook and on YouTube as well.

1294
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 8: And that video, like, as I said, you know, it's creepy,

1295
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 8: but it's there's nothing political in it. There's a little

1296
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 8: bit of like of blood, but there's no gore. But

1297
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 8: if they found it unsettling and explicitly satanic, that's what

1298
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 8: they said.

1299
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:48,440
Speaker 11: It's is satanic. And that was my first brush with

1300
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:48,840
Speaker 11: the right.

1301
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 13: Yeah, and that's really interesting to me that it's specifically

1302
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 13: the satanic angle that they're taking, because it's like it's

1303
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 13: like in this early enough phase that they're still sort

1304
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 13: of developing their reasons to be angry. They haven't quite

1305
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 13: like metastasized transphobia as like they're driving things, so they're

1306
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 13: kind of they're reaching back into this kind of satanic

1307
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 13: panic era, like the weird nineties and two thousand stuff

1308
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 13: that like when when I was growing up, the town

1309
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 13: that I grew up with super religious, and like you know,

1310
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 13: we had to have lists of like if you were

1311
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 13: inviting like a friend in high school to a party

1312
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 13: whose parents could know that it was a Halloween party

1313
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 13: and whose parents couldn't because they would freak out about

1314
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 13: which is it's like that kind of thing, which I

1315
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 13: don't know, it feels like almost quaint now, even even

1316
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 13: as the stuff's escalated.

1317
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 8: But yeah, it was, as I said, it was a

1318
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 8: moral panic. And their point was that that I was

1319
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:47,720
Speaker 8: a moral for making art like this, and it was

1320
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 8: this is the same thing that's happening today. I'm a

1321
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 8: moral for the art that I make.

1322
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 1: And it's not just my art, but it's me.

1323
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 10: It's me.

1324
01:05:56,240 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, And I think that's perhaps what has changed as well,

1325
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 8: Like before they were saying that this is a satanic

1326
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,919
Speaker 8: evil person because they're making this art, and now they're

1327
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 8: saying this is a satanic evil person making satanic evil art.

1328
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 13: Yeah, And I think part of the focus on art here, right,

1329
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 13: is this kind of mirrored reflection of the sort of

1330
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 13: I mean of the original Nazis, Right, Like one of

1331
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,160
Speaker 13: their big things was just like cracked out on quote

1332
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 13: unquote degenerate art, and they had like these like quote

1333
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 13: unquote degenerate art festivals of just like Jewish artists and

1334
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 13: people whose art they didn't like it. It was, you know,

1335
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,959
Speaker 13: like what a thing that was like a significant factor

1336
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 13: in their rise. And I think there's this sort of

1337
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 13: mirror of it here, but I don't know, starting in

1338
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 13: a weirder place in some ways, like starting more out

1339
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 13: of this very very weird like Christian moral panic shit.

1340
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 13: That's I guess if you want to look at how this,

1341
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 13: you know, plays out, like that's kind of where it

1342
01:06:57,080 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 13: is in like twenty eighteen, Right, this is the first

1343
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 13: bathroom in past By twenty eighteen it was Carolina. But

1344
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 13: there's you know, there's a huge backlash to it, and

1345
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 13: that's something that's I think very different than now, where

1346
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 13: like all of this city transhit is happening and everyone's

1347
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:13,520
Speaker 13: just kind of going eh, So, do you want to

1348
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 13: talk about the second time he became Tarken a.

1349
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 8: Far right Yeah, I mean realistically, like this has been

1350
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 8: pretty constant throughout my life as a public artist. And

1351
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 8: there was another there was another track on that album

1352
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 8: that was also targeted. One call it titled My Little

1353
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 8: Problem Violet Door, that has some more provocative imagery than

1354
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 8: the track Phantom, has some nudity, and that was the

1355
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 8: collaboration between myself and a artist who is trans themselves,

1356
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 8: Kid out of Brazil, and that has again some body

1357
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:58,400
Speaker 8: horror in it. There's a commentary about gender norms and

1358
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 8: plastic surgery and identity, but it wasn't explicitly political. Again,

1359
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 8: it was kind of a surreal body horror video. And

1360
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 8: that was Brigade reported not in twenty eighteen, but in

1361
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 8: twenty nineteen and actually taken down from YouTube and then reinstated.

1362
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 8: And that video is notable because as a result of

1363
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:24,040
Speaker 8: what's going on today, YouTube took that down despite it

1364
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 8: being up for five years without a problem that you know,

1365
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 8: I'd had tens of thousands of views and now it's gone.

1366
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 11: So that was the second time.

1367
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 13: Yeah, and that one I think is interesting to in

1368
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 13: the sense of like that one's like a lot more,

1369
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 13: it's more overtly trans and it's also I think the

1370
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 13: more trands you are, the more the more like very

1371
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,720
Speaker 13: obviously trans it is. And this is I guess something

1372
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 13: that's very common among trans artists is this kind of

1373
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 13: like art that's an exploration of sort of body horror it.

1374
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 13: You know, I mean, I'm not going to project onto it.

1375
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 13: I don't know if this is ucifically are doing, but like,

1376
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:09,920
Speaker 13: you know, there's a lot of it that's body horror

1377
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 13: as this sort of metaphor for dysphoria, and like it's

1378
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 13: this way of sort of thinking about the things that

1379
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 13: are happening to your body, things that have been done

1380
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 13: to your body, and the things that you're doing back

1381
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 13: to it.

1382
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1383
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 8: You know, I didn't really think too much about the

1384
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:29,639
Speaker 8: concepts in that direction when I made it or when

1385
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 8: or and I okay didn't either at that time. However,

1386
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 8: the truth is, for much of my young life, I

1387
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 8: felt out of body and I wanted my flesh to

1388
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 8: match my personal vision of myself and my identity. And

1389
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:48,320
Speaker 8: that was something I struggled with for quite a long time.

1390
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 11: When I was young.

1391
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 8: I didn't have access to the information and communities that

1392
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 8: are out there now that sup portraans people. Yeah, and

1393
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 8: I have had some gender confirming procedures done, but not

1394
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 8: as many as I think I would have when I

1395
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 8: was younger. I did feel existential discordance, and I don't

1396
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 8: know if that's a word, but if it's not, I'm

1397
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 8: going to coin it because pretty sure I didn't. I

1398
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 8: didn't feel feel in concordance with my flesh, and so

1399
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 8: you know, I came to experiment what the boundaries were

1400
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 8: of of my fleshy identity in my existence in my art.

1401
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 13: Yeah, And I think there's something about the way that

1402
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:33,600
Speaker 13: your art works and the way that a lot of

1403
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 13: Curtis are where there's you know, and this isn't to

1404
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 13: say that all currotas like this, but there's definitely like

1405
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 13: an edge to it.

1406
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: There's stuff going on.

1407
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:43,799
Speaker 13: There's body horror things happening, There's like eighties aesthetic stuff,

1408
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 13: and I think it conflicts with this kind of weird

1409
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 13: concaid everything is like happy and cozy, sort of kitch

1410
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 13: aesthetic thing that a lot of like this kind of

1411
01:10:54,280 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 13: fascism is really into. They use the kind of a

1412
01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 13: kind of aesthetic sensibility as as a weapon to go

1413
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 13: after stuff that they opposed for more oftly political reasons

1414
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:06,800
Speaker 13: they can do this kind of like hey, look at

1415
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 13: this disgusting thing, et cetera, et cetera kind of attack

1416
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 13: on queer art as a result of this kind of

1417
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:16,560
Speaker 13: like fascist kitsch aesthetic thing that's kind of like this this,

1418
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:19,719
Speaker 13: you know, this sort of like cultural norm in our society.

1419
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 13: And I think I have I haven't one worked out

1420
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 13: the political inplication of this, but I think there's this

1421
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:28,520
Speaker 13: kind of connection between their their weaponization of like revulsion

1422
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 13: and their weaponization of this reaction to like anything that's kind.

1423
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,639
Speaker 1: Of like horror that they kind of like use as

1424
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 1: the political attack.

1425
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:40,599
Speaker 11: Yeah, you know, I think gender is horrifying period.

1426
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:44,519
Speaker 8: Yeah, not just for queer people, but also for CIS people,

1427
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 8: Like I'm gonna defend CIS people here for a second.

1428
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,480
Speaker 11: So SIS people struggle with gender dysphoria.

1429
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 8: I think maybe I would say every bit as much

1430
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,760
Speaker 8: as trans people, but they sure fucking struggle with that.

1431
01:11:59,040 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1432
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 8: For instance, an example I will give is facial hair.

1433
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 8: Lots of people that were assigned male at birth, they

1434
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 8: fret and earn worry over their facial hair.

1435
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 11: Is it too much? Is it too little?

1436
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 8: Then people that are signed female at birth, you know,

1437
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:17,760
Speaker 8: if they have facial hair, you know, they thread over it.

1438
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:19,400
Speaker 8: You know, well, people see it. Do I have to

1439
01:12:19,439 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 8: bleach it? Do I have to pluck it? People fret

1440
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 8: over like they're freaking jaw lines. Like, you know, if

1441
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 8: you search online like masculine jawline, how do I get?

1442
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 8: There's a huge community out there of assigned male at

1443
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:34,679
Speaker 8: birth SYS men that are trying to get more defined

1444
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 8: jaw lines because they feel that their genetics are presenting

1445
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 8: them as a non optimal male quote unquote, and of course,

1446
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 8: same thing for quote unquote females, like do I have

1447
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:47,000
Speaker 8: the female feminine bodies?

1448
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:49,600
Speaker 11: Is it curvy enough in the right way? Is my

1449
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:53,400
Speaker 11: waist slim enough? You know? Is am I just brick shaped?

1450
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 8: And then all the industries around that, and that I

1451
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 8: think is horrifying, and everyone goes through the struggles with it,

1452
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 8: and very few people are lucky enough to embody the

1453
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 8: ideals of gender that we thrust upon ourselves.

1454
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 11: And to me, that is a tragedy.

1455
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:13,880
Speaker 13: Yeah, And I think that sort of like fear and

1456
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:16,479
Speaker 13: that sort of like grinding experience of being forced to

1457
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 13: like perform a gender in a certain way. Well, okay,

1458
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 13: I'm not going to say perform because the Butler scholars

1459
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 13: are going to get extremely.

1460
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 1: Mad at me.

1461
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:24,600
Speaker 5: But the.

1462
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:27,680
Speaker 13: Way in which are forced to sort of live up

1463
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 13: to these standards that are sort of nonsense. I think

1464
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:33,599
Speaker 13: it gets to this thing where you know, you could

1465
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 13: either sort of like muddle through it and try to

1466
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 13: ignore the distance as much as you can. You can

1467
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 13: attempt to fight it, or you can get extremely bad

1468
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 13: at everyone else is trying to do something about it,

1469
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 13: and I think we're seeing an explosion of the last option. Yeah,

1470
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 13: Unfortunately we need to go to ads, which is another

1471
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 13: thing that drives a whole bunch of this. Luckily, these

1472
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:57,599
Speaker 13: are audio ads, so hopefully they're not driving beauty standards.

1473
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 13: But you know who knows people are wizards. Sty'll find

1474
01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 13: a way brought to you by Mabeline.

1475
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 1: And we are back.

1476
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:17,679
Speaker 13: I mean, I guess the way should stay. Highway patrol

1477
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 13: does for skinder dorms on people.

1478
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:27,320
Speaker 8: Oh, they sure do MAKEI another example of hideous gender

1479
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:27,840
Speaker 8: and arms.

1480
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1481
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:32,120
Speaker 8: So you listener, you're hearing me right, and you're hearing

1482
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:36,439
Speaker 8: my voice. And this is another thing that all people

1483
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 8: fret about. It's not trust trans people. Lots of a fabs.

1484
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,759
Speaker 8: I know, I'm just gonna say a fab and amap Okay,

1485
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 8: lots of a fabs, I know. You know, they have

1486
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 8: pretty darned deep voices naturally, and they I've talked with

1487
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 8: them privately and they say that they worry about how

1488
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 8: husky their voice is when they just relax. And then

1489
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:57,800
Speaker 8: same thing for amaps, they talk about worrying if their

1490
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 8: voice is squeaky and thinner. I'm talk like a freaking

1491
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 8: wrestler from w WE, you know, like people people like that.

1492
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 11: People struggle with that too.

1493
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:13,040
Speaker 8: Just so yeah, just something as simple as our appearance

1494
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 8: and our voice, you know, we're just torturing ourselves. And ultimately,

1495
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:21,719
Speaker 8: I gotta say Nia, you know, I'm I'm a trans woman. However,

1496
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,280
Speaker 8: ultimately I'm a gender abolitionist because this shit sucks.

1497
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's not it's not great. It's not a

1498
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:30,559
Speaker 5: good time for any way.

1499
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 13: It fauld Yeah, speaking of bad times, this isn't even

1500
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 13: an activate. I just do this now, which really bad.

1501
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 13: I do it to people my daily life. They're like,

1502
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 13: why are you anpivoting me? And I'm like, oh God,

1503
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 13: but yeah, I guess God. This and the sort of

1504
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:51,000
Speaker 13: racialization aspect, and I don't know this is the aspect

1505
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 13: of zones of gender performance. God damn, I keep saying

1506
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 13: performance that I literally mean that you were performing it,

1507
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:01,559
Speaker 13: as in you were acting and not the butler thing

1508
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 13: of your perform to get to make it real.

1509
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:04,760
Speaker 5: Please don't yell at me.

1510
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:05,720
Speaker 1: Of the comments I had.

1511
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:10,000
Speaker 13: I had the guy who wrote a writer on the

1512
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 13: Big Bang Theory yelled at me specifically about that on Twitter.

1513
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 6: What times.

1514
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 1: It's really okay.

1515
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 13: Sorry, I about to rail this enough, partially because this

1516
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:25,800
Speaker 13: next part is really depressing. But so a while back

1517
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 13: on this show, my my co host Garrison, who is

1518
01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:32,800
Speaker 13: I don't know, probably having an absolutely terrible time at

1519
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:36,320
Speaker 13: the Consumer Electronics Show right now, covered a specific far

1520
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:39,200
Speaker 13: right panic that became don as the we spat contraversia.

1521
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:41,519
Speaker 13: Do you want to talk about how the right stuck

1522
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 13: you into that shit, because Jesus Christ.

1523
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:45,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1524
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,280
Speaker 8: So you know, in twenty eighteen, as I said, I

1525
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 8: put out this album, and then I put out another,

1526
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 8: and I start I was touring the country and Canada

1527
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 8: and stuff and doing shows pretty much constantly, and then

1528
01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 8: twenty happened and I became involved in the George Floyd

1529
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 8: uprising and the Black Lives Matter marches and protesting, and

1530
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 8: so I began to live stream those protests and marches

1531
01:17:12,720 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 8: with the specific intent of contextualizing what the heck was

1532
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 8: going on on the streets to people watching, because a

1533
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:23,200
Speaker 8: lot of people, you know, regardless of their politics, did

1534
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:26,479
Speaker 8: not understand what the issues were. And the thing is,

1535
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 8: in LA there were a lot of continual police murders

1536
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:33,640
Speaker 8: even through the riots. And by police murders, I mean

1537
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 8: the cops shooting on armed black people in the back

1538
01:17:37,280 --> 01:17:41,120
Speaker 8: as they were running away, or executions are shooting them

1539
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:44,720
Speaker 8: in the car, that type of thing. And so I

1540
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 8: was explaining that to the viewers, like, this is why

1541
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 8: people are in the streets, this is a specific issue,

1542
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 8: these are the laws surrounding it, and why these actions

1543
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 8: by the police are not just horrifying, they're also illegal.

1544
01:17:57,479 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 8: And so I was doing that and I became pretty

1545
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 8: darn visible and popular, like I was maybe one of

1546
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 8: the top five best known activist or racial justice voices.

1547
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 8: And I was targeted by a right wing activist who

1548
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:20,439
Speaker 8: was known for blocking the vaccination clinics at Dodger Stadium

1549
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:25,720
Speaker 8: specifically because I was visible, because I was trans, and

1550
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:29,080
Speaker 8: so she went for me and posted and said that

1551
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:32,320
Speaker 8: I was a transgender individual who was in the women's

1552
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 8: spa of we Spa and I was sexually harassing people,

1553
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:40,200
Speaker 8: and that went viral on social media. It was covered

1554
01:18:40,240 --> 01:18:42,960
Speaker 8: on Fox News for a week. I was getting constant

1555
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 8: death threats, and you know, I was docksed. It was

1556
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:52,600
Speaker 8: pretty terrible, especially because I was not that person in

1557
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 8: the spa and I was only best picked up because

1558
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 8: I was picked up for my visibility. My response to

1559
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 8: that was no, I didn't immediately say yeah, it wasn't

1560
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 8: mean it wasn't me, leave me alone, Leave me alone.

1561
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:08,519
Speaker 8: I didn't do that because I knew that if I

1562
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:10,840
Speaker 8: said that, then they would just pick and attack some

1563
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:15,200
Speaker 8: other trans person. Yeah, and you know, I know that

1564
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 8: like the ship that the that the right wing machine

1565
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:22,000
Speaker 8: and acts, if it happens to one of us, it

1566
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:24,120
Speaker 8: can happen to all that's end, it likely will.

1567
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:26,360
Speaker 13: Yeah, And I mean, I think the thing that it

1568
01:19:26,439 --> 01:19:28,720
Speaker 13: reminds me the most something we've also covered on the

1569
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:31,640
Speaker 13: This is one of the problems with talking about this.

1570
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:34,280
Speaker 13: It's like doing this for so long that like there's

1571
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 13: very few things that I can say that I can't

1572
01:19:36,120 --> 01:19:37,760
Speaker 13: be Like I've said this on the show before. But

1573
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:39,760
Speaker 13: we spent a lot of time, typically Garrison, I spend

1574
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 13: a lot of time covering the way that every time

1575
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:44,800
Speaker 13: there's a mass shooter, the right immediately just like picks

1576
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:47,639
Speaker 13: a random transperson and goes, it was this person. Yeah,

1577
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:50,240
Speaker 13: and this reminds me a lot of the same thing,

1578
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:53,439
Speaker 13: although this isn't more targeted, Like we've invented a fake

1579
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 13: controversy about a trans person and then we're going to

1580
01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:00,200
Speaker 13: like also just pick a random famous rand well not

1581
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:02,720
Speaker 13: your favous, but like a random trans person that we

1582
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:03,840
Speaker 13: know about and don't like.

1583
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 8: It's my understanding that this twenty twenty one we saw

1584
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 8: a controversy that I was targeted for became something of

1585
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 8: a right wing playbook.

1586
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 4: Yep.

1587
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 8: It was after that that they started saying, oh, this

1588
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:21,600
Speaker 8: and that person's trans, and before that they didn't have

1589
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:25,200
Speaker 8: a real moral panic around trans people unless you look

1590
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:28,639
Speaker 8: all the way back to the North Carolina South Carolina

1591
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:29,200
Speaker 8: bathroom man.

1592
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:32,280
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean I think I think there's an interesting

1593
01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 13: intermediary thing too. Where so my friend Vicky ashterwhile who

1594
01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:41,679
Speaker 13: depending on when this episode comes out, you'll be hearing

1595
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:45,240
Speaker 13: from either right before this episode or right after. I

1596
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 13: had another version of this where she wrote a book

1597
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:50,400
Speaker 13: called In Defensive Looting. It came out in twenty twenty

1598
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 13: and just for like three months became all the rest

1599
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 13: of it. Really two months, like became the like the

1600
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:00,599
Speaker 13: giant figure with which everyone who didn't like the uprising

1601
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 13: was just like taking it out on, so like like

1602
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 13: sitting in Congress, people were like denouncing this book that

1603
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:09,519
Speaker 13: you wrote. Every base re media outlet like specifically had

1604
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 13: their editorial people going like, this book is evil.

1605
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:13,759
Speaker 1: Vicky's evil.

1606
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 13: And I think that was also like this moment of

1607
01:21:16,479 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 13: deep connection between the backlash of the uprisings and the

1608
01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 13: anti trans uprisings, because the people who you know are

1609
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:28,480
Speaker 13: trying to maintain a white supremacist gender system like intimately themselves,

1610
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:31,200
Speaker 13: even if they don't understand it on a theoretical level,

1611
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 13: understand that they're that these things are preserving the same

1612
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:37,720
Speaker 13: systems of violence, and so they picked us as sort

1613
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 13: of like the wedge point to to break this thing apart.

1614
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 13: And I think with Vicky they hadn't really figured out

1615
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 13: how to do it. And I think it was like

1616
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:50,880
Speaker 13: specifically your case, the the we spaw like with you

1617
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 13: being put in as the figure of the we spause.

1618
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:55,400
Speaker 13: This is where they like actually really figured out how

1619
01:21:55,439 --> 01:21:59,160
Speaker 13: to do the whole thing, And yeah, there's just something

1620
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:01,680
Speaker 13: really bleak up with how effective it was and the

1621
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:04,680
Speaker 13: fact that it's like these are just people I don't know,

1622
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:06,720
Speaker 13: like this isn't the thing that's happening to sort of

1623
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:09,360
Speaker 13: like astrak figures. It's just like, yeah, people I'm having

1624
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 13: conversations with are how they.

1625
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:15,800
Speaker 1: Did this Just I don't know.

1626
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 8: I wish I had more and ELS's but yeah, I

1627
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:24,280
Speaker 8: think the trends people like to to greater America, to most,

1628
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:28,840
Speaker 8: to a lot of America, I'll say, are are sensational.

1629
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:31,840
Speaker 11: You know, people people imagine.

1630
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:36,040
Speaker 8: Chicks with dicks and dudes with dudes without dicks, and

1631
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:40,160
Speaker 8: so I think that's really exciting for a lot of people, for.

1632
01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:43,360
Speaker 11: Better or for worse. I think for for worse.

1633
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:47,800
Speaker 8: But yeah, I think that's just like people and their bodies, right, Like,

1634
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:50,280
Speaker 8: you know, I guess some people walk around think all

1635
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:52,040
Speaker 8: the time about other people's crotches.

1636
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 11: I'm not going to say that's a bad thing. Crush

1637
01:22:57,520 --> 01:22:58,639
Speaker 11: the first of your scene.

1638
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:03,160
Speaker 13: Okay, you know, But on the other hand, right, there's

1639
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:06,120
Speaker 13: this there's this aspect of which like you know, there's

1640
01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:09,000
Speaker 13: a serisacialism, but then there's also the experience of being

1641
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:11,360
Speaker 13: a trans person is like I too am trying to

1642
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 13: find a way to not pay rent, Like that's like,

1643
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 13: I don't know.

1644
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:20,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, so back to back to Wei SPA. Yeah, that

1645
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:22,640
Speaker 8: was a pretty terrible experience for me, and I'm not

1646
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:23,560
Speaker 8: going to lie about it.

1647
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:23,960
Speaker 5: You know.

1648
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:28,360
Speaker 8: I I'm glad that I stood up for for myself.

1649
01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 8: I'm glad I stood up for trans people that I

1650
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:34,879
Speaker 8: didn't pass the buck. It was also really difficult and traumatic,

1651
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:38,879
Speaker 8: and I didn't appreciate the death threats. I didn't appreciate

1652
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:42,640
Speaker 8: being docs and you know, people have come after me

1653
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:47,080
Speaker 8: my my whole life, like I present, I think just

1654
01:23:47,280 --> 01:23:51,439
Speaker 8: naturally physically, like I present as being gender queer, like

1655
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:55,040
Speaker 8: I've been pretty like fearing like looking fem my entire life.

1656
01:23:55,360 --> 01:23:58,400
Speaker 8: That had nothing to do with my internal identity. I've

1657
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:03,200
Speaker 8: been weird my entire life. I've perpetually been curious and

1658
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:07,280
Speaker 8: provocative and interested in things that were provocative, and so

1659
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:11,400
Speaker 8: I've been harassed my whole life. However, UNTI was SPA

1660
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 8: and to experience strangers by the hundreds saying that they're

1661
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:19,240
Speaker 8: gonna hunt me down, and fucking shoot me. Yeah, I

1662
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:21,360
Speaker 8: never know if someone will recognize me when I'm out

1663
01:24:21,479 --> 01:24:23,640
Speaker 8: and be like, hey buddy.

1664
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:23,800
Speaker 5: I know you.

1665
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:26,840
Speaker 13: Yeah, And it's one of these things where like the

1666
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:30,320
Speaker 13: more of a target on you, the more likely it

1667
01:24:30,439 --> 01:24:32,280
Speaker 13: is to happen. And even people who don't have targets

1668
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:34,640
Speaker 13: on them, like I know people you know who've never

1669
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:37,040
Speaker 13: experienced anything like this that have still just like had

1670
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 13: attacks on them, And it's fucking terrifying.

1671
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:41,880
Speaker 1: It is an absolutely terrible.

1672
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:44,560
Speaker 13: Way to have to live in, a terrible sort of

1673
01:24:45,160 --> 01:24:48,480
Speaker 13: thing to have to experience, especially is it's just intensifying.

1674
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was That was twenty twenty one, and

1675
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:51,720
Speaker 1: that changed me.

1676
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:55,400
Speaker 8: That experience of being targeted and just picked on out

1677
01:24:55,439 --> 01:24:58,439
Speaker 8: of the freaking blue that changed me as an artist.

1678
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:02,560
Speaker 8: And at the same time it also firmly established me

1679
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:06,479
Speaker 8: as a sort of celebrity. And I want to speak

1680
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:10,840
Speaker 8: to that because there's different tiers of celebrity, you know.

1681
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:17,320
Speaker 8: At that yes, at the top, there's the tier that's

1682
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 8: known as I get a Christmas card from Tom Cruise

1683
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:25,200
Speaker 8: every year, and that's an actual thing, and that's the

1684
01:25:25,280 --> 01:25:27,760
Speaker 8: A List. And you know you're on the A List

1685
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:31,600
Speaker 8: because Tom cruise since your Christmas card. And at the

1686
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:35,639
Speaker 8: bottom is me who's been in mass media many times

1687
01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:37,759
Speaker 8: now but has none of the benefits.

1688
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:38,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1689
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:41,719
Speaker 8: You know, I make very little money as an artist,

1690
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:45,840
Speaker 8: and I don't have an entourage. I can tour and

1691
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:48,920
Speaker 8: I play play some shows, and you know, some of

1692
01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 8: them are sold out. I'm playing a show in LA

1693
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:54,360
Speaker 8: that's sold out, but I'm not playing large venues. No,

1694
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,240
Speaker 8: I maybe play like you know, three hundred, five hundred

1695
01:25:57,280 --> 01:26:00,240
Speaker 8: capacity tops, and most of the places I play like

1696
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:02,760
Speaker 8: small colabs that one hundred and fifty or so. Yeah,

1697
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:07,120
Speaker 8: And so I don't I don't have the protection that

1698
01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:12,360
Speaker 8: most celebrities inherently have. I don't have book deals. I

1699
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:15,439
Speaker 8: don't have movie deals. I don't even have an asia.

1700
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:17,280
Speaker 8: I don't even have a record label.

1701
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:18,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1702
01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:23,080
Speaker 11: So I'm the freaking D tier. I'm the D tier,

1703
01:26:24,360 --> 01:26:25,360
Speaker 11: and they're coming after me.

1704
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:26,840
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1705
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 13: And it's I mean, and that's the thing about the

1706
01:26:28,360 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 13: sort of like this status of like niche D tier

1707
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:34,200
Speaker 13: internet micro celebrity is like I don't like I feel

1708
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:36,479
Speaker 13: like I got the best possible version of it, where

1709
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:40,160
Speaker 13: like I got a job that pays slightly. I think

1710
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:42,880
Speaker 13: I might have hit no I'm still I'm still below

1711
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:45,040
Speaker 13: the median salary of assists man in the.

1712
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:46,800
Speaker 1: US, but I'm approaching it.

1713
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:50,799
Speaker 13: We're getting closer every year, every union fight, we approach

1714
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:55,240
Speaker 13: median cis man salary. But like, yeah, the situation I

1715
01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:57,840
Speaker 13: got is effectively the equivalent of winning the trans lottery, right,

1716
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:00,840
Speaker 13: Like this is about the best you could possibly hope

1717
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:03,760
Speaker 13: for if you're a transperson and you get famous, Like yeah,

1718
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:05,920
Speaker 13: I mean, like I get that threats too, right, Like

1719
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:10,160
Speaker 13: nothing anywhere near the scale that you get, And mostly

1720
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:14,160
Speaker 13: what happens is like I mean, like single digit numbers

1721
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 13: of trans people in the US have the kind of

1722
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:22,760
Speaker 13: protection that actual celebrity gives you and everyone else. Celebrity

1723
01:27:22,920 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 13: is just another It's just a giant target painted on you.

1724
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:28,840
Speaker 13: And yes, you have none of the benefits and all

1725
01:27:28,920 --> 01:27:31,720
Speaker 13: of the sort of Hey, here is one hundred and

1726
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:35,000
Speaker 13: fifty million people who absolutely hate you and who've been

1727
01:27:35,040 --> 01:27:36,960
Speaker 13: primed and targeted like specifically at you.

1728
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:41,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, It's something that I wonder about, Like why why

1729
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:44,599
Speaker 8: would they do something like this? Why would Fox News

1730
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 8: we talk about me? Why would the founder of the

1731
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:52,160
Speaker 8: Proud Boys, Gavin mccinnis that old video about me bad

1732
01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:54,559
Speaker 8: Boys is a terrorist group if you don't now listener

1733
01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:58,360
Speaker 8: to ever recognize as a terrorist group by Canada, not here,

1734
01:27:58,479 --> 01:27:59,800
Speaker 8: because like we're just cool with that.

1735
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:05,640
Speaker 11: Should hear? They're white supremacist terrorist group? So why me?

1736
01:28:06,439 --> 01:28:09,960
Speaker 11: Why why would a congress person come after me?

1737
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:16,559
Speaker 8: And my own hypothesis is that they punched down because

1738
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:22,120
Speaker 8: they secretly believe that they themselves are weak and attacking me,

1739
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:25,720
Speaker 8: attacking people like me, is a fight that they can win.

1740
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:30,600
Speaker 8: And my view is that it's not a fight that

1741
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:34,519
Speaker 8: they can win because they've already lost. They're trying to

1742
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:38,920
Speaker 8: get power in small, small ways and false ways, in

1743
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:41,599
Speaker 8: my opinion, and they're trying to get money. First of all,

1744
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:44,320
Speaker 8: they want money, you know, they want their views, they

1745
01:28:44,360 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 8: want their donations, and that's the entire top of the

1746
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:52,679
Speaker 8: pyramid for them and for me though, I'm a fucking artist,

1747
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:57,960
Speaker 8: and power is something that I've always been developing because

1748
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:02,040
Speaker 8: I've sought to know myself. I've sought to understand who

1749
01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:06,200
Speaker 8: I am and why that extends to myself as a

1750
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:08,760
Speaker 8: queer person. To come to understand myself who I am

1751
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:11,680
Speaker 8: as a queer person, that's not something they'll ever have.

1752
01:29:12,240 --> 01:29:16,000
Speaker 8: So I've read a fucking won. And same with all

1753
01:29:16,080 --> 01:29:18,640
Speaker 8: the other queer people that are under attack, all you

1754
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:23,959
Speaker 8: other DCER queer celebrities out there, we fucking won.

1755
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:26,400
Speaker 1: Hopefully well.

1756
01:29:26,479 --> 01:29:28,600
Speaker 13: And I think part of this is also like the

1757
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:30,920
Speaker 13: reason this campaign is happening is because they're trying to

1758
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:35,160
Speaker 13: stop the tide from coming in. And they saw how

1759
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:38,439
Speaker 13: far in the tide had already come, and now they're

1760
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 13: trying to like dam off the tide. And you know, like,

1761
01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:47,840
Speaker 13: probably it's not going to work. But the only way

1762
01:29:47,880 --> 01:29:50,760
Speaker 13: that it can is if everyone just like sits here

1763
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:53,599
Speaker 13: does nothing and let's to just keep building and building

1764
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:56,680
Speaker 13: and building more walls. It's something that is within our

1765
01:29:56,760 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 13: power to resist. We just have to actually do it, right.

1766
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:02,400
Speaker 13: You have to actually organize, You have to talk to

1767
01:30:02,439 --> 01:30:04,120
Speaker 13: the people around you, you have to go get them

1768
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:07,360
Speaker 13: to do things to resist this. And if we do, yeah, well,

1769
01:30:07,400 --> 01:30:09,559
Speaker 13: like with the things that we've already won, the things

1770
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:11,200
Speaker 13: that we are going to win are going to stick.

1771
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:13,679
Speaker 13: But if not, like things are going to get really

1772
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:17,680
Speaker 13: really bad really quickly. And yeah, and speaking of things

1773
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:21,599
Speaker 13: getting very bad very quickly, I carre some more ats

1774
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:36,519
Speaker 13: before we get back to these getting wars. We are back, Yeah,

1775
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:41,800
Speaker 13: You've been specifically targeted by a sitting US Congresswoman, Nancy Mace,

1776
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:45,519
Speaker 13: who is the person who actually I don't know if

1777
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:48,320
Speaker 13: we talked about the bathroom stuff here yet, but she's

1778
01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:51,120
Speaker 13: the sort of person behind an attempt to get trans

1779
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:52,960
Speaker 13: people to not be able to use the bathroom on

1780
01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:57,679
Speaker 13: Capitol Hill. She's become a leading anti trans figure in Congress.

1781
01:30:57,760 --> 01:31:00,559
Speaker 13: Literally every single thing that she tweets about is about

1782
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:03,439
Speaker 13: trans women and how they should be put in men's jails,

1783
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:07,400
Speaker 13: which is just an incredibly cynical ploy to make a

1784
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:11,000
Speaker 13: bunch of people get horribly braved and killed, which is

1785
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:13,479
Speaker 13: one of the predominant things that happens when we get

1786
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:16,960
Speaker 13: put in ben's prisons. And she specifically came after years,

1787
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:19,560
Speaker 13: you want to talk about how that happened and the

1788
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:24,120
Speaker 13: latest sort of a congress woman tweets and a fucking

1789
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:26,200
Speaker 13: social media company does their bidding.

1790
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:30,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, so right at the end of twenty twenty four,

1791
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:36,720
Speaker 8: I think it was on December twenty eighth, I was

1792
01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:42,439
Speaker 8: doxed by a right wing control nazi that has docked

1793
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:47,920
Speaker 8: multiple friends of mine, the activist friends, artist friends, and

1794
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:53,640
Speaker 8: they pointed out in a tweet how my art was

1795
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:57,719
Speaker 8: on YouTube, specifically, my music videos were on YouTube calling

1796
01:31:57,880 --> 01:32:01,360
Speaker 8: for violence and how I was in evil trans person

1797
01:32:02,280 --> 01:32:06,320
Speaker 8: and they added like at symbol YouTube and said that

1798
01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:09,599
Speaker 8: these videos are in violation of your terms of service?

1799
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:11,400
Speaker 11: Why are they still up?

1800
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:15,360
Speaker 8: And Nancy May saw that because if you look at

1801
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:19,400
Speaker 8: her Twitter, it's all just the stocks and trans people

1802
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:24,080
Speaker 8: and perpetual like rage bait about the queer menace, the

1803
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:28,919
Speaker 8: trans menace, and so she saw that retweeted and said, YouTube,

1804
01:32:29,240 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 8: this squarly violates your terms of service. Why haven't you

1805
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:36,559
Speaker 8: done anything? And then immediately following that, my videos were

1806
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:39,799
Speaker 8: taken down, the ones that were mentioned in these tweets.

1807
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:44,120
Speaker 8: And as I said before, some one of these videos,

1808
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:46,840
Speaker 8: what was that of my little problem that's been up

1809
01:32:46,920 --> 01:32:48,880
Speaker 8: for seven years?

1810
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:51,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, for a long time.

1811
01:32:52,360 --> 01:32:52,599
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1812
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:58,519
Speaker 8: And YouTube terms of service they're very clear, and I

1813
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:01,360
Speaker 8: do my best to stay within YouTube terms of service

1814
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:03,559
Speaker 8: so my work doesn't get taken down.

1815
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 11: And they state that stuff like violence, minimal nudity that is.

1816
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 8: Allowed within the context of art, within the context of

1817
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:18,840
Speaker 8: music videos, and so my videos, you know, they weren't

1818
01:33:18,920 --> 01:33:21,920
Speaker 8: designed to this is from the terms of service. They

1819
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:26,720
Speaker 8: weren't designed to sexually titillate or gratify. That's exactly what

1820
01:33:26,840 --> 01:33:30,080
Speaker 8: it says in the in the terms. Now they weren't

1821
01:33:30,600 --> 01:33:34,960
Speaker 8: recreations of real life violence, and they weren't real life violence,

1822
01:33:35,240 --> 01:33:37,920
Speaker 8: but they were still they were still removed at the

1823
01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:42,559
Speaker 8: behest at the easy click press of Nancy Mace.

1824
01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:45,599
Speaker 13: Yeah, And I think there's there's a couple of things

1825
01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:47,880
Speaker 13: going on here, one of which is, you know, so

1826
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:51,080
Speaker 13: we've seen this with Facebook and the last I guess

1827
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:52,559
Speaker 13: when this comes out will be like a week ago.

1828
01:33:52,680 --> 01:33:55,800
Speaker 13: But you know, Facebook has in stated policies that allow

1829
01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:59,160
Speaker 13: you to basically stay slurs against queer people, allowed you

1830
01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:01,640
Speaker 13: to call core people the illnesses and stuff like that

1831
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:04,479
Speaker 13: that's very specifically you could only do to queer people.

1832
01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:06,760
Speaker 13: You can't do it to anyone else. And I think

1833
01:34:06,800 --> 01:34:09,320
Speaker 13: there's this sort of trend here of I don't know

1834
01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:13,000
Speaker 13: with Facebook. I wouldn't say that it's like compliance with

1835
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:15,400
Speaker 13: the sort of new Trump regime, because like this is

1836
01:34:15,479 --> 01:34:17,400
Speaker 13: just your Facebook is right, like they did the Row

1837
01:34:17,439 --> 01:34:20,320
Speaker 13: Higg the genocide, like the genocide into Gray too, that

1838
01:34:20,479 --> 01:34:23,120
Speaker 13: was also a Facebook thing. So they've always just been

1839
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:26,280
Speaker 13: evil and they have been sort of looking for the

1840
01:34:26,360 --> 01:34:29,439
Speaker 13: excuse that they needed to like drop the hammer on us.

1841
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:32,160
Speaker 13: But I think YouTube, to some extent to what we're

1842
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:34,599
Speaker 13: seeing right now is this kind of like mask coming

1843
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:38,400
Speaker 13: off moment where people are realizing that with Trump and power,

1844
01:34:38,479 --> 01:34:41,599
Speaker 13: they can just drop the hammer on a queer artist

1845
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:46,120
Speaker 13: because specifically like on a trans artist, because now they

1846
01:34:46,240 --> 01:34:48,840
Speaker 13: have this sort of like backing to do this stuff,

1847
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:51,960
Speaker 13: and the right has you know, realized that they can

1848
01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:54,280
Speaker 13: feel like YouTube, take this video down, and they'll do it.

1849
01:34:55,680 --> 01:35:01,280
Speaker 13: And that's a really terrifying p residents in a lot

1850
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:03,719
Speaker 13: of ways. And also it's very you know, I was like, yeah, obviously,

1851
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:05,439
Speaker 13: because a point of a hypocrisy does nothing. But like,

1852
01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:10,479
Speaker 13: I'm trying to think of a more explicit demonstration of

1853
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:13,160
Speaker 13: censorship than a member of the government says that something

1854
01:35:13,200 --> 01:35:14,960
Speaker 13: should be taken down and it's taken down.

1855
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:18,439
Speaker 10: It's like, it's really so you.

1856
01:35:18,479 --> 01:35:23,600
Speaker 8: Know, it makes me kind of afraid, honestly, because you know,

1857
01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:27,600
Speaker 8: before I was a victim of a moral panic, and

1858
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:33,120
Speaker 8: now my work is effectively being disappeared with little fanfare.

1859
01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:37,200
Speaker 8: So you know, what's what's going to happen next? What

1860
01:35:37,360 --> 01:35:41,240
Speaker 8: will we see just made invisible and unseen? And I

1861
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:43,599
Speaker 8: know that in this country, I have freedom of speech,

1862
01:35:44,120 --> 01:35:46,640
Speaker 8: but that's that's really bullshit. We all know that, Like,

1863
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:48,840
Speaker 8: I'm not going to reach many people if I stand

1864
01:35:48,920 --> 01:35:51,400
Speaker 8: on a street corner at the park and yell at people.

1865
01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:55,040
Speaker 11: What matters nowadays is the freedom of reach that.

1866
01:35:55,200 --> 01:35:59,160
Speaker 8: These social media platforms control, that are themselves controlled now

1867
01:35:59,280 --> 01:36:03,839
Speaker 8: by the Republican Party. And what happens when our freedom

1868
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:08,080
Speaker 8: of reach is annihilated and then suddenly trans people are

1869
01:36:08,320 --> 01:36:09,560
Speaker 8: actually invisible.

1870
01:36:10,880 --> 01:36:13,960
Speaker 11: We're very close to that. I think Fancy proved that.

1871
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:18,479
Speaker 13: Yeah, and disappearing people from the mainstream is the first

1872
01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:20,599
Speaker 13: step for how you destroy a people.

1873
01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:21,160
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1874
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:27,639
Speaker 8: Art art is perhaps the loudest way a person can speak,

1875
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:33,400
Speaker 8: and I know that's why she came after my art.

1876
01:36:33,680 --> 01:36:36,479
Speaker 13: There's something just incredibly galling about watching this whole thing happen.

1877
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:38,360
Speaker 13: And then like the next tweet is again a sitting

1878
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:40,519
Speaker 13: member of the US government saying that trans women should

1879
01:36:40,520 --> 01:36:42,840
Speaker 13: be put in men's prisons, and it's like, Okay, one

1880
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:45,960
Speaker 13: of these is considered violence fight sort of the media machine.

1881
01:36:46,080 --> 01:36:46,840
Speaker 1: One of them isn't.

1882
01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:50,559
Speaker 8: Yeah, does she even actually do work for the people

1883
01:36:50,680 --> 01:36:54,800
Speaker 8: of South Carolina? Like I saw, all she does is

1884
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:58,000
Speaker 8: just like start shit with trans people, like, she says,

1885
01:36:58,080 --> 01:37:01,599
Speaker 8: another lousy politician trying to be an entertainer. And she's

1886
01:37:01,640 --> 01:37:05,560
Speaker 8: just a knockoff product of a bootleg Trump, that's what

1887
01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:08,840
Speaker 8: she is. And she's not even good at her fucking politics.

1888
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:13,160
Speaker 8: Like she's tried to get this bathroom band for disallowing

1889
01:37:13,720 --> 01:37:16,360
Speaker 8: trans people to use a bathroom methaiost Capital and her

1890
01:37:16,439 --> 01:37:20,680
Speaker 8: own freaking party kicked the bill out of the out

1891
01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:23,840
Speaker 8: of the bylaws for this year, so she couldn't even

1892
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:26,960
Speaker 8: get that. And yeah, so I guess she thinks you

1893
01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:31,040
Speaker 8: can get a get a win by harassing me, harassing

1894
01:37:31,080 --> 01:37:33,720
Speaker 8: my art. Yeah, try to get people to come after me.

1895
01:37:34,360 --> 01:37:37,120
Speaker 13: You know, these people are not as powerful as they

1896
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:39,280
Speaker 13: want you to believe. Right, A lot of their stuff

1897
01:37:39,400 --> 01:37:43,360
Speaker 13: just fails. But they will only fail if people are

1898
01:37:43,400 --> 01:37:45,680
Speaker 13: willing to resist and people are willing to stop them.

1899
01:37:46,439 --> 01:37:48,760
Speaker 13: And that's the thing that's needed in this moment. Is

1900
01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:53,400
Speaker 13: organization is you know, like is an organization. It is action,

1901
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:56,599
Speaker 13: it is it is now. It is now the time

1902
01:37:56,840 --> 01:38:00,280
Speaker 13: to go do whatever political activity thing you've been being

1903
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:02,439
Speaker 13: like a should I be organizing a union? Should I

1904
01:38:02,520 --> 01:38:05,920
Speaker 13: be like setting up strikes? Should I be doing street demonstrations?

1905
01:38:05,960 --> 01:38:09,480
Speaker 13: It's like, yeah, it's time, it's time to go because otherwise,

1906
01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:11,320
Speaker 13: you know, and I think this is something that like

1907
01:38:12,520 --> 01:38:15,320
Speaker 13: every trans person now understands intimately, and I think most

1908
01:38:15,360 --> 01:38:19,760
Speaker 13: people don't. Which is that right now it's us, But

1909
01:38:20,200 --> 01:38:23,479
Speaker 13: you know, in two years, assuming we're all still alive,

1910
01:38:23,560 --> 01:38:25,000
Speaker 13: there's a very good chance that it's going to be

1911
01:38:25,160 --> 01:38:27,320
Speaker 13: you like showing up on this show because a fucking

1912
01:38:27,360 --> 01:38:30,800
Speaker 13: congress person is deliberately interviewed to destroy your life. And

1913
01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:33,720
Speaker 13: I would rather we had stopped this before it got

1914
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:36,800
Speaker 13: to any of us. But they're going to come for

1915
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:40,840
Speaker 13: you too unless we stop them. Thank you so much

1916
01:38:41,120 --> 01:38:43,559
Speaker 13: for coming on the show. And where can people find

1917
01:38:43,680 --> 01:38:47,000
Speaker 13: you and find your art? And yeah, support you?

1918
01:38:47,360 --> 01:38:49,559
Speaker 8: Yeah, thanks for having me. May I really like talking

1919
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:54,120
Speaker 8: with you. It's been very good and listeneris You can

1920
01:38:54,160 --> 01:38:58,400
Speaker 8: find my work on Spotify. You can also check out

1921
01:38:58,439 --> 01:39:03,280
Speaker 8: my website at precious Child dot com and please sign

1922
01:39:03,360 --> 01:39:06,120
Speaker 8: up for my mailing list there as well. That is

1923
01:39:06,240 --> 01:39:09,360
Speaker 8: the best and best direct way for me to stay

1924
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:12,679
Speaker 8: in touch with my friends and fans. I'm also Precious

1925
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:17,960
Speaker 8: Child on Instagram on TikTok. I am the last Precious Child.

1926
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:22,320
Speaker 8: I also will be doing live shows this spring and

1927
01:39:22,439 --> 01:39:26,400
Speaker 8: summer in the US, and so follow me on my

1928
01:39:26,479 --> 01:39:29,240
Speaker 8: website and on social media to stay up to date

1929
01:39:29,320 --> 01:39:31,519
Speaker 8: on that and come say him in person.

1930
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:34,880
Speaker 13: Hell yeah, we will have thanks to all of that

1931
01:39:35,240 --> 01:39:38,640
Speaker 13: in the description. So yeah, go check it out and

1932
01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:41,959
Speaker 13: resist the creep of fascism.

1933
01:39:42,920 --> 01:39:45,880
Speaker 8: That's one thing I want to add about I said

1934
01:39:45,920 --> 01:39:49,360
Speaker 8: earlier about personal power and how I have to develop

1935
01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:53,240
Speaker 8: plan personal power by getting to down myself. I want

1936
01:39:53,280 --> 01:39:56,439
Speaker 8: to toil trans people out there, you queer people and

1937
01:39:56,600 --> 01:40:00,519
Speaker 8: your allies. That first thing is getting today's and then

1938
01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:03,760
Speaker 8: next thing is like, fuck these fucking laws, Fuck these

1939
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:07,479
Speaker 8: fucking lawmakers. Yeah, good to know each other and strengthen

1940
01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:11,320
Speaker 8: our bonds with each other, because those are bigger than

1941
01:40:11,439 --> 01:40:14,120
Speaker 8: any type of oppressive laws then we put upon us.

1942
01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:17,320
Speaker 8: And it's only by the strength that we developed with

1943
01:40:17,520 --> 01:40:21,559
Speaker 8: each other, within each other that we will persevere.

1944
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:41,680
Speaker 1: Welcome back to it could happen here, a podcast about it,

1945
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:46,000
Speaker 1: the Consumer Electronics Show happening here to everyone, And of

1946
01:40:46,080 --> 01:40:48,680
Speaker 1: course it is in fact happening to everyone because over

1947
01:40:48,720 --> 01:40:51,439
Speaker 1: the course of the day, all of our subjects here,

1948
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:55,000
Speaker 1: all of our experts here, have watched different kinds of

1949
01:40:55,120 --> 01:40:57,600
Speaker 1: dudes explain the different kinds of jobs they want to

1950
01:40:57,640 --> 01:41:00,080
Speaker 1: replace with a chatbot that was trained on redit it.

1951
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:03,519
Speaker 1: So I'm going to go around a circle and introduce

1952
01:41:03,640 --> 01:41:06,519
Speaker 1: our guests today. First off, we've got the great Ed

1953
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:09,439
Speaker 1: Angwaiso Junior. Ed, thank you for being here, Thanks for

1954
01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:13,479
Speaker 1: having me on. We've got Garrison Davis, who's also great,

1955
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:15,360
Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna say it at the same time

1956
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:17,599
Speaker 1: because I don't want Ed's compliment to feel like less.

1957
01:41:18,200 --> 01:41:20,880
Speaker 1: But you're contractually obligated to not mind.

1958
01:41:21,840 --> 01:41:28,759
Speaker 5: Yes, thank you boss. Great to be here, as always.

1959
01:41:29,400 --> 01:41:34,200
Speaker 1: Very natural, very natural. Zi hi hi, Hello, Hello, hello, hello,

1960
01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:37,559
Speaker 1: thank you. This is your first cees as well. That's right,

1961
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:41,400
Speaker 1: your first time being a journalist? Also true. How do

1962
01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:44,439
Speaker 1: you feel doing the job that Alex Garland has just

1963
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:47,960
Speaker 1: reminded us in the movie Civil War is a fundamentally noble,

1964
01:41:48,040 --> 01:41:50,200
Speaker 1: perfect endeavor only practiced by heroes.

1965
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:53,240
Speaker 14: I love wearing a dress, shirt and tie and just

1966
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:54,360
Speaker 14: getting very drunk.

1967
01:41:54,640 --> 01:41:57,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were very surprised when I gave you your gun,

1968
01:41:57,720 --> 01:42:00,800
Speaker 1: but you can't be a journalist without one. Yeah, yeah,

1969
01:42:01,439 --> 01:42:06,800
Speaker 1: I'm playing with it without the safety and last but

1970
01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:10,320
Speaker 1: certainly not least in fact, maybe better than some people

1971
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:12,160
Speaker 1: in the room. Again, I'm not going to say who.

1972
01:42:12,280 --> 01:42:14,400
Speaker 1: You can wonder that for yourself. Feel in.

1973
01:42:16,120 --> 01:42:16,320
Speaker 4: Rath.

1974
01:42:16,840 --> 01:42:20,479
Speaker 15: Thanks, I agree that I'm pretty good. How much better

1975
01:42:20,520 --> 01:42:22,439
Speaker 15: I am than how many people in this room?

1976
01:42:22,439 --> 01:42:24,479
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not even really like something that was

1977
01:42:24,640 --> 01:42:26,840
Speaker 1: not like talking about Yeah, exactly, because we haven't gotten

1978
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:29,280
Speaker 1: those numbers back from open AI. Yeah, it would be

1979
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:32,160
Speaker 1: irresponsible to speculate at the mind. Yeah, I got away

1980
01:42:32,200 --> 01:42:36,439
Speaker 1: for three So what I want to do here? I

1981
01:42:36,479 --> 01:42:38,160
Speaker 1: think this is kind of our roll up. We spent

1982
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:40,040
Speaker 1: our last day on the floor. I want to go

1983
01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:41,840
Speaker 1: around and I'll start first. You guys have a second

1984
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:44,639
Speaker 1: to get your thoughts together. What comes to mind immedia

1985
01:42:44,720 --> 01:42:45,960
Speaker 1: is like, this is the thing that I had the

1986
01:42:46,040 --> 01:42:48,680
Speaker 1: most positive reaction to, and this is the thing that

1987
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:51,160
Speaker 1: I had the most negative reaction to. I think it

1988
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:53,439
Speaker 1: is a solid way for us to start out, and

1989
01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:56,679
Speaker 1: I think my most negative reaction, obviously was the Amy

1990
01:42:56,920 --> 01:43:01,360
Speaker 1: artificial child best Friend toy, which was deeply upsetting and uncomfortable,

1991
01:43:02,080 --> 01:43:03,800
Speaker 1: and I hated both that. Like I could tell from

1992
01:43:03,800 --> 01:43:07,559
Speaker 1: an industrial design standpoint, pretty good design, Like it looked

1993
01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:10,240
Speaker 1: like something like oh, Kitt'll think that's cute and from

1994
01:43:10,320 --> 01:43:13,160
Speaker 1: a this is our intent for this product standpoint, it

1995
01:43:13,240 --> 01:43:15,519
Speaker 1: felt like a replacement for the love of adults in

1996
01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:18,200
Speaker 1: the life of a small child, which I thought was

1997
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:21,000
Speaker 1: like evil in a profound way. And I guess the

1998
01:43:21,200 --> 01:43:24,680
Speaker 1: best thing that I saw. I'm not perfectly competent at

1999
01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:27,720
Speaker 1: this point to like analyze how well it worked, but

2000
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:29,840
Speaker 1: from the demo I saw, I was very impressed with

2001
01:43:30,120 --> 01:43:34,439
Speaker 1: Naqi Knakis basically reads facial microemotions in order to let

2002
01:43:34,479 --> 01:43:38,519
Speaker 1: people control the computer, not exclusively, but especially if they're

2003
01:43:38,560 --> 01:43:41,080
Speaker 1: quadriplegic or whatever. Like, I thought that was really interesting,

2004
01:43:41,120 --> 01:43:43,400
Speaker 1: and it's the kind of thing because honestly, I might

2005
01:43:43,479 --> 01:43:46,200
Speaker 1: loop that in with There was a AI assisted like

2006
01:43:46,320 --> 01:43:49,080
Speaker 1: Caine for people who were blind. There was another device

2007
01:43:49,120 --> 01:43:51,599
Speaker 1: that led you to control a computer through like facial

2008
01:43:51,640 --> 01:43:53,920
Speaker 1: movements in your mouth. It was like a retainer all

2009
01:43:54,040 --> 01:43:56,320
Speaker 1: the stuff that's like, oh, these are like really people

2010
01:43:56,520 --> 01:43:59,760
Speaker 1: care a lot about helping somebody regain the ability to

2011
01:44:00,120 --> 01:44:03,120
Speaker 1: utilize technology to let them reconnect to the world. That's

2012
01:44:03,280 --> 01:44:06,160
Speaker 1: like the opposite of replacing a child's parents with a

2013
01:44:06,240 --> 01:44:09,040
Speaker 1: toy ed. You're in the hot seat next.

2014
01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:09,680
Speaker 4: You know.

2015
01:44:09,800 --> 01:44:15,040
Speaker 16: The thing I loved the most was obviously the Global

2016
01:44:15,120 --> 01:44:17,960
Speaker 16: Pavilion for connecting Web three businesses.

2017
01:44:17,479 --> 01:44:19,000
Speaker 1: Across crypto botching.

2018
01:44:19,320 --> 01:44:25,840
Speaker 16: Oh yeah, DeFi fintech cb DC's, which are central bank

2019
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:30,840
Speaker 16: digital currencies and legal advocacy. You know, this made my

2020
01:44:31,000 --> 01:44:35,960
Speaker 16: heart flutter because you know what, even when you think

2021
01:44:36,040 --> 01:44:41,240
Speaker 16: they're down, Crypto finds a way to squirm into your life.

2022
01:44:41,640 --> 01:44:43,960
Speaker 16: It really is the zombie of the tech world. Yeah,

2023
01:44:44,120 --> 01:44:48,719
Speaker 16: because it's dead and yet it's undead. It's constantly trying

2024
01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:49,479
Speaker 16: to crawl that.

2025
01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:53,719
Speaker 1: Somehow the fact that it's dead makes it more dangerous. Now, yeah, exactly,

2026
01:44:54,640 --> 01:44:57,280
Speaker 1: it's specifically a zombie. I will try to figure out

2027
01:44:57,280 --> 01:45:00,799
Speaker 1: what's the vampire, but specifically Crypto is the zombie.

2028
01:45:00,880 --> 01:45:01,080
Speaker 13: Yeah.

2029
01:45:01,120 --> 01:45:03,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. When I first read the line that is not dead,

2030
01:45:03,600 --> 01:45:06,400
Speaker 1: which can eternal lie and with strange eons, even death

2031
01:45:06,479 --> 01:45:09,280
Speaker 1: may die. Yeah, it would.

2032
01:45:10,680 --> 01:45:15,280
Speaker 16: When I think of, you know, twenty eight years later

2033
01:45:15,439 --> 01:45:17,440
Speaker 16: trailer where they used that poem.

2034
01:45:19,160 --> 01:45:20,240
Speaker 1: Three six.

2035
01:45:20,600 --> 01:45:23,040
Speaker 16: You know, like, I'm just guessing where the price of

2036
01:45:23,080 --> 01:45:26,680
Speaker 16: bitcoin is gonna go. I think we're we're at the

2037
01:45:26,760 --> 01:45:28,640
Speaker 16: beginning of a golden age, not for us but for

2038
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:33,400
Speaker 16: the grifters. Oh God, next week, when are dear Golden

2039
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:37,440
Speaker 16: Boy gets or Orange Boy gets elected. So I are inaugurated?

2040
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:38,800
Speaker 16: Has he already won the election?

2041
01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:40,280
Speaker 1: You did?

2042
01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:40,760
Speaker 4: Right?

2043
01:45:41,840 --> 01:45:45,160
Speaker 5: Well, that's that's that's debatable. I think there was some

2044
01:45:45,400 --> 01:45:50,639
Speaker 5: very curious irregularities in days right straightforward from here.

2045
01:45:50,680 --> 01:45:54,920
Speaker 1: To be encouraging the Blue and one people let him,

2046
01:45:54,960 --> 01:45:58,200
Speaker 1: let him have it, Let him have it. You're right,

2047
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:01,479
Speaker 1: he wasn't shot at all. That was all an AI trick. Yeah,

2048
01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:04,760
Speaker 1: fifteen would blow your whole head off that way.

2049
01:46:05,760 --> 01:46:05,920
Speaker 5: You know.

2050
01:46:06,040 --> 01:46:07,720
Speaker 16: The thing I actually did like the most, similar to you,

2051
01:46:07,840 --> 01:46:11,040
Speaker 16: I really did like the assistive tech. I mean the

2052
01:46:11,080 --> 01:46:14,280
Speaker 16: stuff that is for people who are disabled, not able

2053
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:18,560
Speaker 16: body either experiencings either cognitive decline or you know, the

2054
01:46:18,720 --> 01:46:20,880
Speaker 16: nerodegenitive things or paralyzed.

2055
01:46:20,920 --> 01:46:20,960
Speaker 7: Like.

2056
01:46:21,240 --> 01:46:24,040
Speaker 16: This is actual stuff that we need a lot more

2057
01:46:24,880 --> 01:46:27,439
Speaker 16: investment in development and I assume maybe the scale up

2058
01:46:27,439 --> 01:46:29,840
Speaker 16: production of it and figure out ways that it can

2059
01:46:29,960 --> 01:46:33,120
Speaker 16: be offered to people in a variety or in a

2060
01:46:33,160 --> 01:46:34,439
Speaker 16: spectrum of use cases.

2061
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:34,680
Speaker 5: Right.

2062
01:46:35,280 --> 01:46:38,439
Speaker 16: I think the stuff that I did not like, hmm,

2063
01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:42,120
Speaker 16: you know, I didn't really care for a lot of

2064
01:46:42,280 --> 01:46:49,360
Speaker 16: the luxury surveillance stuff, you know, the fake cgms that

2065
01:46:49,680 --> 01:46:53,080
Speaker 16: you know, I'll never forget this woman telling someone right

2066
01:46:53,160 --> 01:46:55,519
Speaker 16: next to me, it's a It was a medical device

2067
01:46:55,560 --> 01:46:58,400
Speaker 16: that when I asked, she looks at my attack and goes, no,

2068
01:47:00,200 --> 01:47:06,120
Speaker 16: it's not a medically.

2069
01:47:05,320 --> 01:47:07,720
Speaker 1: We had a beautiful moment where it was this like

2070
01:47:08,160 --> 01:47:10,800
Speaker 1: it was like a set of smart goggles, which there

2071
01:47:10,840 --> 01:47:12,400
Speaker 1: were a lot of that had like night vision, but

2072
01:47:12,439 --> 01:47:15,840
Speaker 1: also it had like threat assessments. So the specific thing

2073
01:47:15,840 --> 01:47:18,040
Speaker 1: they bragged is like it can help a police officer

2074
01:47:18,160 --> 01:47:22,000
Speaker 1: identify if somebody has a gun. Right, And this this

2075
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:24,799
Speaker 1: was right after we had gone to an AI security

2076
01:47:24,880 --> 01:47:26,680
Speaker 1: camera that I had flipped off with both hands and

2077
01:47:26,720 --> 01:47:30,439
Speaker 1: it had identified as a man giving the thumbbat And

2078
01:47:31,080 --> 01:47:33,400
Speaker 1: I don't feel great about it identifying the gun.

2079
01:47:34,520 --> 01:47:37,960
Speaker 16: Luxury surveillance for health, luxury surveillance for a recognition. Also

2080
01:47:38,080 --> 01:47:40,120
Speaker 16: like they had it in litter boxes and shit, don't

2081
01:47:40,200 --> 01:47:40,439
Speaker 16: need that.

2082
01:47:40,880 --> 01:47:41,920
Speaker 10: I really don't need that.

2083
01:47:41,960 --> 01:47:44,160
Speaker 16: Why does the letterbox need to be connected to the internet.

2084
01:47:44,479 --> 01:47:45,519
Speaker 16: Why does it need a camera?

2085
01:47:46,560 --> 01:47:48,639
Speaker 1: You know that does maybe think of a better world

2086
01:47:48,680 --> 01:47:51,439
Speaker 1: where we have exactly as much money and focus on AI,

2087
01:47:51,600 --> 01:47:55,560
Speaker 1: but it's all integrating it into cat focused products like

2088
01:47:55,720 --> 01:47:59,960
Speaker 1: fifty billion dollars being poured into cattle. Translate whatever you're

2089
01:48:00,040 --> 01:48:04,120
Speaker 1: cat is saying into French perfectly. Your cat can make

2090
01:48:04,200 --> 01:48:07,840
Speaker 1: deals with Chinese and by the way, we've hooked him

2091
01:48:07,920 --> 01:48:10,280
Speaker 1: up to venture capital. He has an open line of

2092
01:48:10,439 --> 01:48:12,800
Speaker 1: soft bank. Siri, why you know that?

2093
01:48:13,040 --> 01:48:15,720
Speaker 16: I would love this translation. Let's help my cat make

2094
01:48:15,800 --> 01:48:19,080
Speaker 16: some deals. Help me figure out why or how he

2095
01:48:19,240 --> 01:48:22,000
Speaker 16: learned to open my door, you know, things like this,

2096
01:48:22,680 --> 01:48:24,200
Speaker 16: But what we get an am bullshit.

2097
01:48:24,360 --> 01:48:26,160
Speaker 1: I want to see a guy dressed as Steve Jobs

2098
01:48:26,200 --> 01:48:28,439
Speaker 1: be like ladies and gentlemen. We have finally done it.

2099
01:48:28,720 --> 01:48:31,840
Speaker 1: We have gotten across the concept of death to a cat,

2100
01:48:32,280 --> 01:48:33,559
Speaker 1: and I understand there.

2101
01:48:33,680 --> 01:48:41,400
Speaker 15: Mortalent actually that like common ad where he's talking about AI,

2102
01:48:41,520 --> 01:48:43,720
Speaker 15: but he's like, we taught proofs to a dog.

2103
01:48:44,800 --> 01:48:49,439
Speaker 1: Got turtleback on what a dog would think about It's

2104
01:48:49,560 --> 01:48:52,480
Speaker 1: just a dog sitting at a table smoking a cigarette.

2105
01:48:54,840 --> 01:48:59,800
Speaker 1: The future. Mm hmm, Garrison, you're up.

2106
01:49:01,160 --> 01:49:05,839
Speaker 5: Best of CS I think was definitely the VLC media

2107
01:49:05,960 --> 01:49:09,800
Speaker 5: booth at the park where they they had like they

2108
01:49:09,840 --> 01:49:12,200
Speaker 5: had big, big traffic cones on their head, wearing them

2109
01:49:12,280 --> 01:49:14,240
Speaker 5: like wizard hats with huge cloaks.

2110
01:49:14,280 --> 01:49:15,519
Speaker 1: They were dressed as wizards.

2111
01:49:15,800 --> 01:49:17,800
Speaker 5: They were dressed as wizards, and we walked up to

2112
01:49:17,880 --> 01:49:19,160
Speaker 5: them and they said.

2113
01:49:19,160 --> 01:49:21,639
Speaker 1: Let's let's start VLC folks, if you if you don't

2114
01:49:21,720 --> 01:49:23,519
Speaker 1: know this, this was especially relevant to those of us

2115
01:49:23,560 --> 01:49:26,479
Speaker 1: who pirated a lot. It's a media app that allows

2116
01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:30,120
Speaker 1: you to basically play any kind of like any video Fi, idiophile, yes,

2117
01:49:30,520 --> 01:49:32,920
Speaker 1: or audio file, and now it will automatically give you

2118
01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:35,840
Speaker 1: subtitles to using local AI. That's not like reaching to

2119
01:49:35,880 --> 01:49:36,800
Speaker 1: the cloud or anything to do.

2120
01:49:36,880 --> 01:49:39,799
Speaker 5: It, because putting some titles on pirated media can sometimes

2121
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:42,040
Speaker 5: be really hard. So they said, we have something that

2122
01:49:42,160 --> 01:49:45,320
Speaker 5: analyzes the audio that's being spoken in whatever media you're watching,

2123
01:49:45,360 --> 01:49:47,280
Speaker 5: and we will put some titles up for you. We

2124
01:49:47,439 --> 01:49:50,439
Speaker 5: walked up and we're like, so what do you have here? Like,

2125
01:49:50,680 --> 01:49:54,240
Speaker 5: we are not selling anything, We have nothing to sell you.

2126
01:49:55,080 --> 01:49:57,280
Speaker 1: In this beautiful they're fringe. So it was in this

2127
01:49:57,520 --> 01:50:00,080
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, wonderful access. I'm not going to the

2128
01:50:00,760 --> 01:50:02,799
Speaker 1: degree of like I don't give a fuck about anything

2129
01:50:02,840 --> 01:50:06,000
Speaker 1: else of this stupid goddamn show that they gave off.

2130
01:50:06,120 --> 01:50:07,320
Speaker 1: They exuded it and.

2131
01:50:07,439 --> 01:50:10,000
Speaker 5: They're they're they're by far the coolest because of something

2132
01:50:10,160 --> 01:50:11,200
Speaker 5: Robert You said to them.

2133
01:50:11,400 --> 01:50:13,600
Speaker 1: I walked up and I was like, VLC is a

2134
01:50:13,680 --> 01:50:16,040
Speaker 1: very popular app. They just crossed six billion downloads. I've

2135
01:50:16,040 --> 01:50:18,360
Speaker 1: been using them for almost as long as you've been alive.

2136
01:50:18,400 --> 01:50:19,960
Speaker 1: And I walked up and I was like, I've been

2137
01:50:20,040 --> 01:50:23,240
Speaker 1: using your product for fifteen years. In ordered a pirate

2138
01:50:23,360 --> 01:50:27,880
Speaker 1: media and they said, very nonchalantly, keep going, keep keep going,

2139
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:32,479
Speaker 1: keep doing that, keep doing that. I'm obsessed.

2140
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:33,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's amazing.

2141
01:50:33,920 --> 01:50:36,240
Speaker 1: About this too, because, like I, it's a good app.

2142
01:50:36,280 --> 01:50:38,000
Speaker 1: I have also used it. I saw the guy in

2143
01:50:38,080 --> 01:50:39,559
Speaker 1: the hat and I was like, Oh, it's the VLC

2144
01:50:39,840 --> 01:50:41,400
Speaker 1: from you know, from on your desktop.

2145
01:50:41,720 --> 01:50:43,920
Speaker 15: And then I was like, that's that's stupid. I don't

2146
01:50:43,920 --> 01:50:45,479
Speaker 15: need to talk to the man. He's wearing a hat

2147
01:50:45,560 --> 01:50:47,400
Speaker 15: and a cape. And I'm glad that you followed through.

2148
01:50:47,520 --> 01:50:49,800
Speaker 15: As a journalist pushed aside your instinct to be like,

2149
01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:52,360
Speaker 15: do not approach stranger in a cape?

2150
01:50:52,920 --> 01:50:54,160
Speaker 1: Garrison does not have that answer.

2151
01:50:55,040 --> 01:50:58,560
Speaker 5: No, no, At some point the contrary, I feel a

2152
01:50:58,640 --> 01:50:59,519
Speaker 5: magnetic attraction.

2153
01:51:01,479 --> 01:51:03,320
Speaker 1: This is why I keep an air tag on them.

2154
01:51:04,280 --> 01:51:05,479
Speaker 1: A great way to get abducted.

2155
01:51:07,400 --> 01:51:12,639
Speaker 5: I think similarly, obviously all of the AI stuff for kids,

2156
01:51:12,680 --> 01:51:15,000
Speaker 5: all of like the AI slop is like obviously bad.

2157
01:51:15,040 --> 01:51:17,120
Speaker 5: We've talked about that a lot already. The other thing

2158
01:51:17,200 --> 01:51:19,120
Speaker 5: that's like kind of like the worst is similar to

2159
01:51:19,280 --> 01:51:21,559
Speaker 5: what you said, ed like the level of surveillance tech.

2160
01:51:21,760 --> 01:51:23,800
Speaker 5: I tried out multiple a systems that are supposed to

2161
01:51:23,960 --> 01:51:27,920
Speaker 5: like detect and predict behavior based on facial expressions or

2162
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:32,120
Speaker 5: gesture and this is really tricky. There was one at

2163
01:51:32,200 --> 01:51:35,200
Speaker 5: Eureka Park. It's a South Korean company that's powered I

2164
01:51:35,240 --> 01:51:37,880
Speaker 5: believe by Samsung with money and also they've access to

2165
01:51:37,960 --> 01:51:43,240
Speaker 5: like their training data. They're called Visomatic And specifically why

2166
01:51:43,400 --> 01:51:45,519
Speaker 5: this exists. It is a camera that you can put

2167
01:51:45,560 --> 01:51:47,439
Speaker 5: on a put on a computer. It will it will

2168
01:51:47,520 --> 01:51:50,360
Speaker 5: detect where your face is pointing and where your eyes

2169
01:51:50,400 --> 01:51:53,360
Speaker 5: are paying attention to. And the reason why this exists

2170
01:51:53,760 --> 01:51:56,680
Speaker 5: is for online test taking. It's so people don't like

2171
01:51:56,760 --> 01:51:59,880
Speaker 5: look at their phone to like cheat, so it tracks

2172
01:52:00,040 --> 01:52:01,559
Speaker 5: where your eyes are moving and if your eyes look

2173
01:52:01,640 --> 01:52:04,280
Speaker 5: down too much, it's gonna flag it as someone's possibly cheating.

2174
01:52:04,400 --> 01:52:07,679
Speaker 5: So this was obviously like introduced after the pandemic. There's

2175
01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:09,960
Speaker 5: a lot a lot of online test taking. Samsung uses

2176
01:52:10,040 --> 01:52:12,400
Speaker 5: this tech themselves for any kind of like online exams

2177
01:52:12,600 --> 01:52:14,920
Speaker 5: that they as a company will put on, you know,

2178
01:52:15,080 --> 01:52:18,080
Speaker 5: whether it's like for people students, employees. But they also

2179
01:52:18,160 --> 01:52:20,080
Speaker 5: had like other features where you could switch it. I

2180
01:52:20,120 --> 01:52:21,439
Speaker 5: assume what it's doing all the same work, it just

2181
01:52:21,600 --> 01:52:24,160
Speaker 5: is placed differently on the monitor and instead of can

2182
01:52:24,200 --> 01:52:26,759
Speaker 5: you know, do like object detection you know what you're wearing,

2183
01:52:27,560 --> 01:52:30,000
Speaker 5: and the general like behavior analysis if you seem like

2184
01:52:30,040 --> 01:52:33,400
Speaker 5: you're behaving suspiciously, which is something that we tried at

2185
01:52:33,439 --> 01:52:36,320
Speaker 5: the SK booth, which also South Korean company for their

2186
01:52:36,439 --> 01:52:40,560
Speaker 5: own like like surveillance detection. But I asked Visomatic like like,

2187
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:42,040
Speaker 5: what kind of use cases do you see for this

2188
01:52:42,120 --> 01:52:44,880
Speaker 5: beyond test tick? You know, like yeah, general surveillance, Like yeah,

2189
01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:48,560
Speaker 5: we want to learn how to like predict or like

2190
01:52:48,680 --> 01:52:52,559
Speaker 5: analyze potentially suspicious human behavior. As we were walking by

2191
01:52:52,640 --> 01:52:56,280
Speaker 5: the SK version. One quite funny thing is as I

2192
01:52:56,400 --> 01:52:59,400
Speaker 5: walked by, it first at first identified me as a

2193
01:52:59,479 --> 01:53:03,679
Speaker 5: blonde war holding a cup. It then changed and said

2194
01:53:03,720 --> 01:53:06,799
Speaker 5: blonde person, which I think is pretty it's pretty deep.

2195
01:53:07,160 --> 01:53:09,360
Speaker 1: Very progressive. It's doing the opposite of a Facebook.

2196
01:53:09,479 --> 01:53:12,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, it could sense the pronouns. It's like hmm, maybe

2197
01:53:13,320 --> 01:53:18,240
Speaker 5: maybe not maybe not a woman, maybe not a blonde person,

2198
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:22,320
Speaker 5: but but yes, that was you know, something that was

2199
01:53:22,360 --> 01:53:26,120
Speaker 5: like quite well done. Specifically the visomatic stuff like very functional.

2200
01:53:26,439 --> 01:53:28,160
Speaker 5: It could tell when I was looking at the screen,

2201
01:53:28,360 --> 01:53:30,240
Speaker 5: when I was looking at my phone, it could tell

2202
01:53:30,360 --> 01:53:32,960
Speaker 5: from like various various angles, like what I was holding,

2203
01:53:33,040 --> 01:53:35,599
Speaker 5: what I was looking at, where my attention was being directed.

2204
01:53:35,960 --> 01:53:36,240
Speaker 14: Like it was.

2205
01:53:36,320 --> 01:53:38,720
Speaker 5: It was very well done. It was very accurate, but

2206
01:53:38,800 --> 01:53:39,840
Speaker 5: you know, possibly scary.

2207
01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:43,920
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of possibly scary, the sponsors of this podcast

2208
01:53:44,600 --> 01:53:46,400
Speaker 1: don't know who they are, could be the Washington State

2209
01:53:46,479 --> 01:53:49,160
Speaker 1: Highway Patrol again, in which case, thank you boys for

2210
01:53:49,280 --> 01:53:53,639
Speaker 1: your noble service on our nation's roads. I'm not saying

2211
01:53:53,720 --> 01:53:56,160
Speaker 1: that because I got pulled over the other week and

2212
01:53:56,200 --> 01:53:58,240
Speaker 1: I'm really trying to fight a case right now. I

2213
01:53:58,240 --> 01:54:13,439
Speaker 1: would never do that anyway. Thanks guys, and we're back.

2214
01:54:15,720 --> 01:54:16,320
Speaker 11: Is it my turn?

2215
01:54:16,479 --> 01:54:17,120
Speaker 1: It is your turn?

2216
01:54:17,600 --> 01:54:20,360
Speaker 5: Okay, So I'm going to introduce our special white woman

2217
01:54:20,520 --> 01:54:24,840
Speaker 5: CORRESPONDENTSI to give us some exciting breaking news in the

2218
01:54:25,000 --> 01:54:27,040
Speaker 5: white woman tech development world.

2219
01:54:27,920 --> 01:54:31,400
Speaker 14: Okay, so the first one is positive for contexts, I'm

2220
01:54:31,439 --> 01:54:34,840
Speaker 14: a trans woman. And one of the boosts that was

2221
01:54:34,920 --> 01:54:39,480
Speaker 14: pretty interesting it was this group. Were they French, Garrett,

2222
01:54:39,520 --> 01:54:43,480
Speaker 14: you remember I, I you know they're they're they're European.

2223
01:54:43,640 --> 01:54:46,120
Speaker 14: They're called Ellie Ellie Health.

2224
01:54:46,200 --> 01:54:47,080
Speaker 10: It's E l I.

2225
01:54:47,680 --> 01:54:52,840
Speaker 14: Anyways, this is a at home hormone tester, So it

2226
01:54:53,000 --> 01:54:57,400
Speaker 14: is saliva base. It's like a little disposable package. Currently

2227
01:54:57,520 --> 01:55:01,440
Speaker 14: they only advertise cortisol and progress rone, but they have

2228
01:55:01,640 --> 01:55:05,720
Speaker 14: plans for estrade, isle and other hormones, testoster as well,

2229
01:55:05,800 --> 01:55:11,600
Speaker 14: testosterone as well. Sorry, and yeah, so you swab your

2230
01:55:11,640 --> 01:55:15,360
Speaker 14: mouth in the morning or evening and then you wait,

2231
01:55:15,600 --> 01:55:18,480
Speaker 14: what was it, like, fifteen minutes, twenty minutes, and then

2232
01:55:18,600 --> 01:55:23,040
Speaker 14: you scan this little like QR thing on the device

2233
01:55:23,560 --> 01:55:27,880
Speaker 14: and your phone calculates what your levels are. And this

2234
01:55:28,040 --> 01:55:33,400
Speaker 14: has very interesting implications for like the DIY hormone market

2235
01:55:33,680 --> 01:55:37,880
Speaker 14: or use case. I started DIY and did my own

2236
01:55:38,040 --> 01:55:41,040
Speaker 14: like blood tests, but a lot of like trans kids

2237
01:55:41,080 --> 01:55:42,280
Speaker 14: don't have access to that.

2238
01:55:42,560 --> 01:55:47,480
Speaker 3: So this is a it's a good idea if it's actually.

2239
01:55:47,200 --> 01:55:50,480
Speaker 14: Effective, Like we an't have hands on yet, we haven't

2240
01:55:50,520 --> 01:55:52,360
Speaker 14: tested it yet, but I would love to do a

2241
01:55:52,440 --> 01:55:55,440
Speaker 14: comparison of like testing my own levels and then trying

2242
01:55:55,560 --> 01:55:57,839
Speaker 14: this very interesting, very intriguing.

2243
01:55:58,040 --> 01:56:00,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, we will certainly as soon as possible. Has this

2244
01:56:00,760 --> 01:56:03,840
Speaker 5: compared to the regular like mail in blood tests, which

2245
01:56:03,920 --> 01:56:05,520
Speaker 5: is like the current way to do it, but that

2246
01:56:05,680 --> 01:56:08,960
Speaker 5: requires shipping your blood to a laboratory, and that's maybe

2247
01:56:09,040 --> 01:56:12,600
Speaker 5: not always the best or even like convenient. So being

2248
01:56:12,600 --> 01:56:14,720
Speaker 5: able to test this just at home without shipping any

2249
01:56:14,760 --> 01:56:18,240
Speaker 5: of your DNA to some random laboratory would be really

2250
01:56:18,520 --> 01:56:19,040
Speaker 5: really cool.

2251
01:56:19,520 --> 01:56:25,560
Speaker 14: Right, There's no insurance involved. This is completely supposedly close source.

2252
01:56:25,800 --> 01:56:28,040
Speaker 1: From what y'all were telling me earlier today, when you

2253
01:56:28,320 --> 01:56:30,880
Speaker 1: explained this to me, it sounded kind of like the

2254
01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:34,480
Speaker 1: people making this have an understanding of the dangers inherent,

2255
01:56:34,600 --> 01:56:37,000
Speaker 1: particularly to the trans community, and why they might want

2256
01:56:37,040 --> 01:56:39,840
Speaker 1: to use this, and a focus on privacy. For that reason,

2257
01:56:40,160 --> 01:56:43,520
Speaker 1: I didn't press them on that because I don't know.

2258
01:56:43,680 --> 01:56:47,920
Speaker 1: I follow ces you know, wide variety of Yeah.

2259
01:56:48,040 --> 01:56:50,440
Speaker 5: No, we tried to expect as much intel as possible

2260
01:56:50,720 --> 01:56:53,600
Speaker 5: about kind of what their future plans are, but not

2261
01:56:53,720 --> 01:56:55,520
Speaker 5: specifically like in that level.

2262
01:56:55,520 --> 01:56:58,400
Speaker 1: But privacy, like they seemed like they had of coursably

2263
01:56:58,400 --> 01:56:59,400
Speaker 1: good understand.

2264
01:56:59,080 --> 01:57:00,840
Speaker 5: Of course, it's because it's because it is your own

2265
01:57:00,880 --> 01:57:03,520
Speaker 5: like DNA and hormones, you know, Like, I do not

2266
01:57:03,680 --> 01:57:05,720
Speaker 5: know this company is even thinking about trans people if

2267
01:57:05,760 --> 01:57:08,680
Speaker 5: it is trans friendly, but it could be used by

2268
01:57:08,800 --> 01:57:10,040
Speaker 5: trans people regardless.

2269
01:57:10,480 --> 01:57:14,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, much like a glock exactly exactly.

2270
01:57:15,120 --> 01:57:16,280
Speaker 14: The potential is great.

2271
01:57:16,920 --> 01:57:20,240
Speaker 11: And then probably my least favorite goofs.

2272
01:57:20,480 --> 01:57:23,240
Speaker 14: I have to call out some other white women my

2273
01:57:23,600 --> 01:57:27,840
Speaker 14: so call boho white women is ebjects.

2274
01:57:28,080 --> 01:57:32,840
Speaker 1: And has that spelled ev ev J E C t okay?

2275
01:57:33,320 --> 01:57:34,320
Speaker 4: And what this is?

2276
01:57:34,360 --> 01:57:34,760
Speaker 1: Oh god?

2277
01:57:34,880 --> 01:57:39,960
Speaker 14: Yes, this is a special plug for your charging port

2278
01:57:40,080 --> 01:57:45,520
Speaker 14: of your EV. So the idea is a nefarious party

2279
01:57:45,880 --> 01:57:49,320
Speaker 14: sees you and your fancy EV and approaches you and

2280
01:57:49,440 --> 01:57:53,400
Speaker 14: you need a quick getaway. Their words, their words, their words,

2281
01:57:53,520 --> 01:57:56,200
Speaker 14: by the way, like they see your fancy car and

2282
01:57:56,320 --> 01:58:02,520
Speaker 14: your targets. So this device will like e jacks, you

2283
01:58:02,600 --> 01:58:05,839
Speaker 14: can just drive away from the charge the power cart.

2284
01:58:07,240 --> 01:58:11,720
Speaker 1: Leaving broken pieces of plastic both yes, the charger way

2285
01:58:12,160 --> 01:58:15,920
Speaker 1: like this is not reusable, single use, one time use.

2286
01:58:16,240 --> 01:58:16,440
Speaker 3: Yes.

2287
01:58:17,200 --> 01:58:21,200
Speaker 14: So yeah, all those all those people targeting so call

2288
01:58:21,360 --> 01:58:21,880
Speaker 14: white women.

2289
01:58:23,360 --> 01:58:25,720
Speaker 15: This is finally someone is serving the community of people

2290
01:58:25,760 --> 01:58:27,320
Speaker 15: that think that if you find a zip.

2291
01:58:27,200 --> 01:58:31,320
Speaker 5: Tie on your car door handle MS thirteen. That was

2292
01:58:31,360 --> 01:58:33,120
Speaker 5: the first thing I said. As soon as soon as

2293
01:58:33,160 --> 01:58:35,280
Speaker 5: we walked away, I was like, this product wins the

2294
01:58:35,400 --> 01:58:39,080
Speaker 5: Coolson Media Award for the most white woman product. It's

2295
01:58:39,080 --> 01:58:41,720
Speaker 5: specifically right, like if you see a slice of cheese

2296
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:46,040
Speaker 5: on your windshield, you're already targeted. Way this is this

2297
01:58:46,200 --> 01:58:48,600
Speaker 5: is that exact demographic of people who think they're going

2298
01:58:48,640 --> 01:58:51,960
Speaker 5: to get trafficked in like your local like olive garden

2299
01:58:52,280 --> 01:58:53,120
Speaker 5: parking lots.

2300
01:58:53,160 --> 01:58:59,320
Speaker 1: Gangs stalked Americans in the Tesla charging station in Brentwood, California,

2301
01:58:59,600 --> 01:59:03,600
Speaker 1: where they average incomes like in the eight figures. I

2302
01:59:03,680 --> 01:59:05,800
Speaker 1: gotta say, though, you're being very unfair to them. It

2303
01:59:05,920 --> 01:59:08,080
Speaker 1: was so nice of them to put down the phone

2304
01:59:08,080 --> 01:59:10,120
Speaker 1: where they were doom scrolling TikTok, to look at all

2305
01:59:10,160 --> 01:59:12,240
Speaker 1: of the different reasons their kids are going to be abducted.

2306
01:59:12,280 --> 01:59:15,200
Speaker 15: We're talking about this product. You know, they're like some

2307
01:59:15,400 --> 01:59:19,080
Speaker 15: finally someone's gonna do something about it. Create a disposable

2308
01:59:19,120 --> 01:59:19,880
Speaker 15: piece of plastic.

2309
01:59:20,080 --> 01:59:22,480
Speaker 16: You notice that guy is always sitting down at the

2310
01:59:22,640 --> 01:59:26,360
Speaker 16: gym and the coffee shop and the gas station.

2311
01:59:27,040 --> 01:59:27,880
Speaker 1: This is what he doesn't get.

2312
01:59:28,240 --> 01:59:28,680
Speaker 3: Be careful.

2313
01:59:28,800 --> 01:59:30,480
Speaker 1: I feel like I could have upsold them, and like

2314
01:59:30,520 --> 01:59:32,360
Speaker 1: what if we put some explosives in this, you know,

2315
01:59:32,520 --> 01:59:34,520
Speaker 1: really like keep them off of the.

2316
01:59:34,600 --> 01:59:39,680
Speaker 16: Car, like blo, create a diversion inside of it, called

2317
01:59:39,800 --> 01:59:42,440
Speaker 16: the police station and took a picture of him.

2318
01:59:42,400 --> 01:59:46,200
Speaker 1: And someone scared. A lady driving a Vibe that's one

2319
01:59:46,240 --> 01:59:47,160
Speaker 1: of the electric.

2320
01:59:46,880 --> 01:59:51,080
Speaker 5: Cars, right, It's like a crocodile tail as as as

2321
01:59:51,160 --> 01:59:55,839
Speaker 5: it whips around, mobilizing anyone in the vicinity.

2322
01:59:56,000 --> 01:59:58,840
Speaker 1: We're calling it the iguana, and it does with enough

2323
01:59:58,920 --> 02:00:04,120
Speaker 1: force to break a grow man. Yeah, yes, Okay, David Roth.

2324
02:00:04,600 --> 02:00:07,400
Speaker 15: So there's a lot of I guess I gathered less

2325
02:00:07,600 --> 02:00:09,480
Speaker 15: than in years past that this was at one point

2326
02:00:09,560 --> 02:00:11,200
Speaker 15: like basically a car show. There is not a lot

2327
02:00:11,240 --> 02:00:14,200
Speaker 15: of transit stuff this time around. I didn't get to

2328
02:00:14,200 --> 02:00:16,600
Speaker 15: see very much of it, but I did have. I

2329
02:00:16,680 --> 02:00:18,879
Speaker 15: guess this is both my best and my worst experience,

2330
02:00:18,960 --> 02:00:21,880
Speaker 15: the most powerful transit experience of my life.

2331
02:00:22,200 --> 02:00:23,360
Speaker 1: So I live in New York City. I take the

2332
02:00:23,400 --> 02:00:26,000
Speaker 1: subway pretty much everywhere I go, and you know, it

2333
02:00:26,080 --> 02:00:28,240
Speaker 1: has its ups and downs. For the most part, it's good.

2334
02:00:28,280 --> 02:00:30,560
Speaker 15: It moves like twelve hundred people through a tunnel of

2335
02:00:30,720 --> 02:00:33,120
Speaker 15: thirty odd miles an hour, and for the most part,

2336
02:00:33,120 --> 02:00:35,520
Speaker 15: everybody leaves everybody else alone, or you know, watches videos

2337
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:38,080
Speaker 15: on their phone and stuff. But I knew that there

2338
02:00:38,160 --> 02:00:41,120
Speaker 15: had to be a better way, and at the Las

2339
02:00:41,240 --> 02:00:44,400
Speaker 15: Vegas Convention Center, I got to experience it.

2340
02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:47,360
Speaker 1: You're familiar Elon Musk, serial entrepreneur.

2341
02:00:48,080 --> 02:00:50,720
Speaker 15: Yeah, so he invented something called the hyper loop which

2342
02:00:50,800 --> 02:00:52,400
Speaker 15: is a car that goes through a tunnel that's the

2343
02:00:52,520 --> 02:00:55,440
Speaker 15: exact same size as the car at eleven miles an hour,

2344
02:00:56,120 --> 02:00:58,760
Speaker 15: and it takes there's someone has to drive it, and

2345
02:00:58,840 --> 02:01:01,400
Speaker 15: also someone has to help you into the car. But

2346
02:01:01,480 --> 02:01:04,040
Speaker 15: you can fit up the three additional people into the car,

2347
02:01:04,200 --> 02:01:07,480
Speaker 15: so that ratio everyone, I know, Yes, right, So yeah,

2348
02:01:07,800 --> 02:01:12,480
Speaker 15: you got two people moving three people two hundred yards

2349
02:01:13,200 --> 02:01:16,040
Speaker 15: at the speed of like a brisk walk. Now, David,

2350
02:01:16,040 --> 02:01:19,400
Speaker 15: this kind of technology wasn't possible just a few decades, right, exactly.

2351
02:01:19,440 --> 02:01:21,360
Speaker 1: I mean, this was the sort of thing. Though there

2352
02:01:21,440 --> 02:01:25,760
Speaker 1: had been tunnels, they were mostly used by animals, voles miners, yes, right,

2353
02:01:25,800 --> 02:01:28,280
Speaker 1: and thought yeah, and that was mostly for pirates in

2354
02:01:28,320 --> 02:01:30,560
Speaker 1: at least one movie I saw recently, Yes, but no

2355
02:01:30,600 --> 02:01:32,680
Speaker 1: one had thought about it as a transit sort of thing.

2356
02:01:32,760 --> 02:01:34,320
Speaker 15: It was more of a like a place where you

2357
02:01:34,360 --> 02:01:38,240
Speaker 15: would go if you needed to get copper. And of course,

2358
02:01:38,720 --> 02:01:41,000
Speaker 15: but in this case, so this is like where it's

2359
02:01:41,040 --> 02:01:43,560
Speaker 15: good to have and this I guess every ces is

2360
02:01:43,600 --> 02:01:46,480
Speaker 15: like this. This was my first to be reminded that

2361
02:01:46,760 --> 02:01:49,800
Speaker 15: there are visionaries out there who are like, what if

2362
02:01:49,840 --> 02:01:53,080
Speaker 15: you put car through hole? What if instead of a

2363
02:01:53,160 --> 02:01:56,640
Speaker 15: thing that moves multiple people at once. You had a

2364
02:01:56,680 --> 02:01:59,320
Speaker 15: thing that took exactly the same number of people to

2365
02:01:59,480 --> 02:02:02,920
Speaker 15: move a number of people slightly more than Yes, Yeah,

2366
02:02:03,440 --> 02:02:05,160
Speaker 15: so that was cool. I mean it's just like fun

2367
02:02:05,240 --> 02:02:06,920
Speaker 15: to see like where this stuff is going. And I

2368
02:02:07,000 --> 02:02:09,640
Speaker 15: really wonder if we're not going to start seeing things

2369
02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:13,320
Speaker 15: like cars on the streets of American cities, you know,

2370
02:02:13,520 --> 02:02:18,920
Speaker 15: like it could be okay, David, I mean most of

2371
02:02:18,960 --> 02:02:20,720
Speaker 15: the obviously this is something we'd go on. Last yere

2372
02:02:20,800 --> 02:02:22,280
Speaker 15: was like three or four good things you all said them.

2373
02:02:22,320 --> 02:02:25,600
Speaker 15: I thought the accessibility tech stuff was the the stuff

2374
02:02:25,640 --> 02:02:28,720
Speaker 15: that made me feel good about what was going on here,

2375
02:02:28,760 --> 02:02:30,200
Speaker 15: and there was a great deal of stuff that made

2376
02:02:30,200 --> 02:02:32,200
Speaker 15: me feel like pretty bad about what was going on. Yeah,

2377
02:02:32,360 --> 02:02:35,400
Speaker 15: up to and including like the surveillance stuff beyond the

2378
02:02:35,800 --> 02:02:40,680
Speaker 15: you know, like advanced Samsung powered snitch tech so that

2379
02:02:40,800 --> 02:02:43,600
Speaker 15: nobody whatever your boss can tell if you're really looking

2380
02:02:43,680 --> 02:02:46,120
Speaker 15: at the zoom that you're on. I don't really love

2381
02:02:46,200 --> 02:02:48,680
Speaker 15: that personally, But for me, the a lot of the

2382
02:02:49,120 --> 02:02:51,680
Speaker 15: smart home stuff is real drag like just in the

2383
02:02:51,760 --> 02:02:54,400
Speaker 15: sense that it clearly, first of all, beyond being like

2384
02:02:54,440 --> 02:02:58,800
Speaker 15: sort of unnecessary, there's a level of just willingly giving

2385
02:02:58,880 --> 02:03:03,400
Speaker 15: over your agency over the small moments that make you

2386
02:03:03,480 --> 02:03:05,440
Speaker 15: know human life human life, and just being like I

2387
02:03:05,480 --> 02:03:08,040
Speaker 15: would really love it if just like an artificial intelligence

2388
02:03:08,080 --> 02:03:10,839
Speaker 15: could pick my pants out for the day. I'll simply

2389
02:03:10,920 --> 02:03:14,000
Speaker 15: stand here waiting for that to happen. Yeah, just fucking

2390
02:03:14,080 --> 02:03:17,400
Speaker 15: grim actually, like didn't really care for it. I feel

2391
02:03:17,400 --> 02:03:20,120
Speaker 15: like you gotta like, what are you using that time

2392
02:03:20,200 --> 02:03:20,440
Speaker 15: to do?

2393
02:03:21,520 --> 02:03:24,200
Speaker 1: Yeah? What are you getting? What are you optimizing from

2394
02:03:24,280 --> 02:03:27,200
Speaker 1: yourself by not having like pieces of like the thing

2395
02:03:27,320 --> 02:03:29,360
Speaker 1: that a human being does, which is like pick your

2396
02:03:29,440 --> 02:03:32,720
Speaker 1: clothes right? Yeah, I wonder how you feel about this

2397
02:03:32,760 --> 02:03:34,360
Speaker 1: because you and I have been going to sees from

2398
02:03:34,400 --> 02:03:37,000
Speaker 1: and I guess a broadly similar number of years. Like

2399
02:03:37,080 --> 02:03:38,880
Speaker 1: I've never been to CEO. Oh really this is your No,

2400
02:03:39,000 --> 02:03:40,880
Speaker 1: I'm a fucking sports writer man, Like, this is a

2401
02:03:40,920 --> 02:03:43,640
Speaker 1: lot of out here because Ed got me a folding head.

2402
02:03:43,800 --> 02:03:46,360
Speaker 1: I have like the dead eyedes veterans. Oh yeah, well

2403
02:03:46,400 --> 02:03:47,520
Speaker 1: I'm very tired. Yeah.

2404
02:03:47,760 --> 02:03:49,680
Speaker 15: This is the thing with like I think, as far

2405
02:03:49,720 --> 02:03:51,640
Speaker 15: as I can tell, it seems like it's a loop

2406
02:03:52,200 --> 02:03:54,400
Speaker 15: where you more or less like you start out it's

2407
02:03:54,440 --> 02:03:56,520
Speaker 15: too much, you get big eye right away, and then

2408
02:03:56,560 --> 02:03:58,880
Speaker 15: you just sort of feel zombiefied. But then we have

2409
02:03:59,000 --> 02:04:01,360
Speaker 15: talked to people over the last few days that are like,

2410
02:04:01,400 --> 02:04:04,120
Speaker 15: you know, I remember like fourteen cess ago that was

2411
02:04:04,200 --> 02:04:08,080
Speaker 15: pretty good, like and they're also tired and also arranged

2412
02:04:08,080 --> 02:04:08,520
Speaker 15: by this point.

2413
02:04:08,600 --> 02:04:10,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, the first time someone showed me a tablet computer,

2414
02:04:11,040 --> 02:04:13,600
Speaker 1: I was like, oh man, science has given me everything

2415
02:04:13,680 --> 02:04:15,960
Speaker 1: I want, like, and I guess it's I don't know.

2416
02:04:16,200 --> 02:04:18,720
Speaker 1: Do you remember like when the last one was that

2417
02:04:18,880 --> 02:04:25,680
Speaker 1: you felt like even sort of that stirring. Yeah, twenty

2418
02:04:25,880 --> 02:04:29,080
Speaker 1: like eleven or twelve when they did. I got to

2419
02:04:29,120 --> 02:04:31,640
Speaker 1: see inductive charging of a car for the first time,

2420
02:04:31,680 --> 02:04:34,080
Speaker 1: and it like was so big. The Las Vegas Convention

2421
02:04:34,240 --> 02:04:37,560
Speaker 1: Center is like as the size of a city, and

2422
02:04:37,720 --> 02:04:40,760
Speaker 1: seeing like the lights in that whole convention center dim

2423
02:04:40,960 --> 02:04:45,960
Speaker 1: as they were doing it was very inefficient because our

2424
02:04:46,080 --> 02:04:48,240
Speaker 1: wild Yeah, but that was just like that was like,

2425
02:04:48,400 --> 02:04:51,080
Speaker 1: oh wow, this is kind of like amazing that this

2426
02:04:51,240 --> 02:04:55,360
Speaker 1: is even possible. But yeah, not really sense, not really sense.

2427
02:04:56,200 --> 02:04:57,840
Speaker 1: That's why I'm really glad that there's lights in the

2428
02:04:57,920 --> 02:05:02,280
Speaker 1: hyper loop tunnel. Yeah, otherwise it'd be unless something goes wrong,

2429
02:05:02,320 --> 02:05:04,520
Speaker 1: would it started to seem kind of grim? Otherwise? Well,

2430
02:05:04,560 --> 02:05:07,440
Speaker 1: I the smart home stuff is interesting because that has

2431
02:05:07,480 --> 02:05:09,080
Speaker 1: been as long as I've been going to these they've

2432
02:05:09,080 --> 02:05:12,560
Speaker 1: been trying to sell people on smart homes, and I

2433
02:05:12,680 --> 02:05:15,640
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever gotten a good idea of what

2434
02:05:15,800 --> 02:05:18,440
Speaker 1: a smart home is that I think a person would want.

2435
02:05:18,680 --> 02:05:20,960
Speaker 1: I can think of two things a person would want right.

2436
02:05:21,280 --> 02:05:23,360
Speaker 1: One of them is, it would be nice if, like

2437
02:05:23,440 --> 02:05:25,480
Speaker 1: I didn't have to think about playing music. I could

2438
02:05:25,560 --> 02:05:27,880
Speaker 1: just like tell my house to play the music I wanted,

2439
02:05:27,880 --> 02:05:29,720
Speaker 1: and it would play the music and I could hear

2440
02:05:29,760 --> 02:05:31,280
Speaker 1: it everywhere and I didn't have to fuss with a

2441
02:05:31,320 --> 02:05:33,720
Speaker 1: bunch of shit. And the second is, what if I'm

2442
02:05:33,720 --> 02:05:35,960
Speaker 1: coming home from vacation and my house is cold, it

2443
02:05:36,000 --> 02:05:37,720
Speaker 1: would be nice to turn on the heat or like

2444
02:05:37,760 --> 02:05:40,960
Speaker 1: an hour before I get home. And one of those

2445
02:05:41,040 --> 02:05:43,400
Speaker 1: things you'd use every day, and one of those things

2446
02:05:43,440 --> 02:05:45,360
Speaker 1: it's not really viable to base a business off of.

2447
02:05:45,480 --> 02:05:47,880
Speaker 1: But like, they keep trying to find new ways to

2448
02:05:47,960 --> 02:05:50,680
Speaker 1: stick computers in my house, and I don't know, does

2449
02:05:50,720 --> 02:05:52,440
Speaker 1: anyone else have anything they want out of a fucking

2450
02:05:52,520 --> 02:05:53,040
Speaker 1: smart home?

2451
02:05:53,320 --> 02:05:53,360
Speaker 5: No?

2452
02:05:53,560 --> 02:05:55,880
Speaker 15: I mean, I like, it's not an accident that my

2453
02:05:56,040 --> 02:05:58,440
Speaker 15: apartment is basically going to be in the year two

2454
02:05:58,440 --> 02:06:01,280
Speaker 15: thousand and five forever means it's expensive to do all

2455
02:06:01,320 --> 02:06:03,240
Speaker 15: this stuff. This is the bit thatit with so many

2456
02:06:03,280 --> 02:06:06,120
Speaker 15: of these demos, like just you start to notice how

2457
02:06:06,600 --> 02:06:09,840
Speaker 15: incredibly grandiose the residences in which all of this stuff

2458
02:06:09,920 --> 02:06:12,760
Speaker 15: is being sort of like postulated as being useful. Is

2459
02:06:12,840 --> 02:06:17,160
Speaker 15: It's like the like Lexus December to remember sales event

2460
02:06:17,280 --> 02:06:18,240
Speaker 15: type energy just a.

2461
02:06:18,280 --> 02:06:19,920
Speaker 1: Big fuck what lives do you live?

2462
02:06:20,040 --> 02:06:20,240
Speaker 16: Yeah?

2463
02:06:20,400 --> 02:06:23,360
Speaker 15: This also we've talked about this on Ed's show that

2464
02:06:23,520 --> 02:06:25,160
Speaker 15: like there's a lot of stuff here that feels like

2465
02:06:25,440 --> 02:06:28,000
Speaker 15: like the first fifteen minutes of a George Romero movie,

2466
02:06:28,200 --> 02:06:30,720
Speaker 15: like just getting you set for Eventually there's going to

2467
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:32,880
Speaker 15: be a lot of like, you know, disembowelings and hideous

2468
02:06:32,880 --> 02:06:36,240
Speaker 15: shambling zombies. Yeah, and smart home not a bad horror

2469
02:06:36,320 --> 02:06:39,640
Speaker 15: movie concept. I don't think it's a great consumer concept.

2470
02:06:39,800 --> 02:06:44,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of great consumer concepts, the ads for this podcast.

2471
02:06:54,280 --> 02:06:56,120
Speaker 1: All right, we're back, and I want to close this

2472
02:06:56,240 --> 02:06:58,960
Speaker 1: out by asking everybody a question, which is, how do

2473
02:06:59,000 --> 02:07:00,960
Speaker 1: you feel about where tech is going?

2474
02:07:02,600 --> 02:07:05,240
Speaker 16: I think we're going to hell. I think we are

2475
02:07:05,440 --> 02:07:09,839
Speaker 16: getting wrapped it up very fast into the sweet abyss.

2476
02:07:10,640 --> 02:07:14,120
Speaker 16: I'm worried about the fact that so much of the

2477
02:07:14,280 --> 02:07:19,600
Speaker 16: tech is oriented around surveillance, around precursor forms of prepping,

2478
02:07:20,440 --> 02:07:26,480
Speaker 16: around very soft forms of like perfection and optimization that

2479
02:07:26,800 --> 02:07:30,360
Speaker 16: rhyme with eugenics. I'm like, I don't like the direction

2480
02:07:30,480 --> 02:07:33,960
Speaker 16: that a lot of this stuff is going, but also

2481
02:07:34,040 --> 02:07:35,840
Speaker 16: there I don't know what to do about it because

2482
02:07:35,840 --> 02:07:39,240
Speaker 16: so much of it is driven by private interest, right,

2483
02:07:39,320 --> 02:07:44,960
Speaker 16: It's like venture capitalists, well capitalized individuals and firms that

2484
02:07:45,040 --> 02:07:47,760
Speaker 16: they're connected to decide what we get to get pushed

2485
02:07:48,040 --> 02:07:49,280
Speaker 16: and these corporations, you.

2486
02:07:49,320 --> 02:07:52,040
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, the nature of like you can you can

2487
02:07:52,080 --> 02:07:54,920
Speaker 1: really tell that a lot of like the health products

2488
02:07:54,960 --> 02:07:58,720
Speaker 1: are very optimized for like rich tech executives. Like there's

2489
02:07:58,720 --> 02:08:00,560
Speaker 1: a lot of sleep products that are relied on you

2490
02:08:00,680 --> 02:08:03,839
Speaker 1: being willing to like bathe yourself in speakers, playing benaural

2491
02:08:03,920 --> 02:08:07,040
Speaker 1: beats while you slept, and like at different devices measure

2492
02:08:07,080 --> 02:08:09,080
Speaker 1: You're like do an ECG and it's like I don't know,

2493
02:08:09,640 --> 02:08:11,280
Speaker 1: my aunt's not going to do that.

2494
02:08:11,560 --> 02:08:13,560
Speaker 16: Oh yeah, you know, like I was, you know, I was.

2495
02:08:13,880 --> 02:08:15,160
Speaker 11: I took with my partner about this.

2496
02:08:15,200 --> 02:08:17,200
Speaker 16: They have type one diabetes, they have a CGM, they

2497
02:08:17,360 --> 02:08:19,480
Speaker 16: use it constantly, and they're We've been talking about and

2498
02:08:19,560 --> 02:08:22,120
Speaker 16: thinking about writing about how there's been a crop of

2499
02:08:22,280 --> 02:08:24,560
Speaker 16: devices that are like trying to push onto this idea

2500
02:08:24,640 --> 02:08:28,160
Speaker 16: that you need to have close monitoring of it to

2501
02:08:28,640 --> 02:08:31,400
Speaker 16: preempt if you are going to be prediabetic, or to

2502
02:08:31,480 --> 02:08:33,760
Speaker 16: optimize what you're eating throughout the day, but that you know,

2503
02:08:34,280 --> 02:08:36,640
Speaker 16: when you actually dig into what they're doing, it's like

2504
02:08:37,280 --> 02:08:40,320
Speaker 16: part of this track of rhetoric where it's like, wow,

2505
02:08:40,480 --> 02:08:42,800
Speaker 16: you know, if you're sugar slightly goes out, it's because

2506
02:08:42,800 --> 02:08:44,600
Speaker 16: you're being a bad person. It's because you're eating the

2507
02:08:44,680 --> 02:08:46,920
Speaker 16: way that you shouldn't. It's because there's a moral failing

2508
02:08:47,040 --> 02:08:49,640
Speaker 16: or character failing there that this tech can help purify

2509
02:08:49,760 --> 02:08:51,440
Speaker 16: you of and you can be your best self, which

2510
02:08:51,480 --> 02:08:52,960
Speaker 16: is really just like not.

2511
02:08:53,640 --> 02:08:54,320
Speaker 1: Large, you know.

2512
02:08:54,560 --> 02:08:59,280
Speaker 16: And I feel that sort of rhetoric lurking behind a

2513
02:08:59,360 --> 02:09:02,920
Speaker 16: lot of the bi metric surveillance stuff, even though there

2514
02:09:02,960 --> 02:09:04,080
Speaker 16: are applications that are not that.

2515
02:09:04,400 --> 02:09:06,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's kind of focused on like the sin,

2516
02:09:07,080 --> 02:09:09,400
Speaker 1: the health sins that you're committing. We spend a decent

2517
02:09:09,440 --> 02:09:11,440
Speaker 1: amount of this week hanging out with a Catholic priest,

2518
02:09:11,520 --> 02:09:13,960
Speaker 1: and I do feel like several tech companies were the

2519
02:09:14,000 --> 02:09:18,720
Speaker 1: ones trying to sell us indulgences, right, yeah, yeah, all

2520
02:09:18,800 --> 02:09:19,200
Speaker 1: right gear.

2521
02:09:20,080 --> 02:09:23,200
Speaker 5: There's small improvements for consumer tech.

2522
02:09:23,360 --> 02:09:23,480
Speaker 4: Right.

2523
02:09:23,600 --> 02:09:25,840
Speaker 5: This is a very consumer based where it's supposed to

2524
02:09:25,880 --> 02:09:28,920
Speaker 5: be a consumer based tech show. There's products like the

2525
02:09:29,000 --> 02:09:32,520
Speaker 5: Shocks headphones, which every year get a little bit better.

2526
02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:36,040
Speaker 5: I try to bone conducting headphones last year, which are

2527
02:09:36,480 --> 02:09:38,120
Speaker 5: very good. They work underwater.

2528
02:09:38,360 --> 02:09:40,160
Speaker 1: If you're deaf in an ear you can listen to

2529
02:09:40,240 --> 02:09:41,960
Speaker 1: your music the way you used to be able to.

2530
02:09:42,080 --> 02:09:44,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, very cool stuff. This year they have what they

2531
02:09:44,960 --> 02:09:47,960
Speaker 5: called air conductive. I don't quite know how it works,

2532
02:09:48,320 --> 02:09:50,240
Speaker 5: but it does work. I can hear it if you're

2533
02:09:50,240 --> 02:09:52,600
Speaker 5: standing like two three feet away. There's no sound bleed,

2534
02:09:52,880 --> 02:09:54,920
Speaker 5: but I hear music in the middle of my head

2535
02:09:55,280 --> 02:09:57,520
Speaker 5: despite having to not put an earbud actually like in

2536
02:09:57,680 --> 02:10:02,520
Speaker 5: my ear. They're super useful, work, great, really good sound quality, durable.

2537
02:10:02,560 --> 02:10:04,280
Speaker 1: I'm on year two of the same pair that I

2538
02:10:04,400 --> 02:10:08,240
Speaker 1: run with every single day, like sweat rain. Great products.

2539
02:10:08,240 --> 02:10:11,720
Speaker 5: It's like small improvements, right, It's not it's not necessarily

2540
02:10:11,800 --> 02:10:16,000
Speaker 5: like revolutionizing hearing, but it's it's very very small improvements.

2541
02:10:16,440 --> 02:10:19,520
Speaker 5: Where as the other kind of big, big trend, which

2542
02:10:19,560 --> 02:10:22,400
Speaker 5: isn't necessarily like holly consumer based. It's kind of what

2543
02:10:22,480 --> 02:10:25,480
Speaker 5: these larger companies are trying to move towards is I

2544
02:10:25,560 --> 02:10:32,240
Speaker 5: feel like they're trying to replace friendship with this form

2545
02:10:32,320 --> 02:10:35,880
Speaker 5: of like technology and like AI enable technology. You used

2546
02:10:35,880 --> 02:10:38,080
Speaker 5: to have friends to get recommended new music. You used

2547
02:10:38,080 --> 02:10:40,160
Speaker 5: to have like friends to like tell you about new

2548
02:10:40,240 --> 02:10:43,480
Speaker 5: stuff that they're interested in. No longer. Now you have

2549
02:10:43,520 --> 02:10:45,480
Speaker 5: an AI agent that can do that for you. You

2550
02:10:45,720 --> 02:10:48,800
Speaker 5: you don't need you don't need friends to help kind

2551
02:10:48,800 --> 02:10:52,880
Speaker 5: of talk about, you know, you had a rough breakup. Instead,

2552
02:10:52,920 --> 02:10:56,040
Speaker 5: you can have a short term replacement. Using AI, you

2553
02:10:56,120 --> 02:10:59,640
Speaker 5: could have a friend replacement of a girlfriend replacement. It's

2554
02:10:59,680 --> 02:11:02,120
Speaker 5: all these things are trying to replace the core concept

2555
02:11:02,160 --> 02:11:05,160
Speaker 5: of friendship, even as like as even as like a baby,

2556
02:11:05,240 --> 02:11:07,920
Speaker 5: even as a toddler. Your first friend doesn't need to

2557
02:11:07,960 --> 02:11:10,000
Speaker 5: be people you meet outside. It can be this little

2558
02:11:10,080 --> 02:11:12,640
Speaker 5: hovering robot you have in the living room that can

2559
02:11:12,680 --> 02:11:15,520
Speaker 5: also organize your fridge, tell you what to tell you what.

2560
02:11:17,320 --> 02:11:18,840
Speaker 5: We'll roll around your house in the middle of the

2561
02:11:18,920 --> 02:11:21,880
Speaker 5: night with cameras, and that could be your first friend.

2562
02:11:22,560 --> 02:11:25,760
Speaker 5: It's replacing the core concept of friendship. It's this move

2563
02:11:25,840 --> 02:11:29,800
Speaker 5: towards complete optimization of every aspect of human life. Because

2564
02:11:29,800 --> 02:11:32,280
Speaker 5: as smooth as possible, that completely ignores like what it

2565
02:11:32,360 --> 02:11:33,040
Speaker 5: means to be human.

2566
02:11:33,120 --> 02:11:36,600
Speaker 1: It's the fascinating difference between that elder care robot elie Q,

2567
02:11:36,840 --> 02:11:38,920
Speaker 1: which was clearly a man with a tremendous amount of

2568
02:11:38,960 --> 02:11:41,440
Speaker 1: empathy trying to design a device to help people, and

2569
02:11:41,520 --> 02:11:43,520
Speaker 1: what I usually see with AI, which is trying to

2570
02:11:43,600 --> 02:11:47,120
Speaker 1: design a device to remove the need for human empathy.

2571
02:11:47,600 --> 02:11:49,480
Speaker 1: Like I went to a there was a vet app

2572
02:11:49,600 --> 02:11:53,120
Speaker 1: called Laika that's like chat GPT for veterinarians, and they

2573
02:11:53,160 --> 02:11:54,640
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, you know what, most of it we

2574
02:11:54,760 --> 02:11:57,400
Speaker 1: focused initially on like technical questions, so like if I

2575
02:11:57,440 --> 02:12:00,480
Speaker 1: have these symptoms, what can that mean? But that's asking

2576
02:12:00,600 --> 02:12:02,240
Speaker 1: us is like we would really like advice on how

2577
02:12:02,280 --> 02:12:04,200
Speaker 1: to talk to people that their pets are going to die?

2578
02:12:04,720 --> 02:12:07,160
Speaker 1: And I was like, do you are Vett's not getting

2579
02:12:07,200 --> 02:12:09,840
Speaker 1: out of that school, because that's like that's a big

2580
02:12:09,960 --> 02:12:12,480
Speaker 1: part of being an a vet, Like do they need

2581
02:12:12,600 --> 02:12:13,680
Speaker 1: chet GPT for this?

2582
02:12:13,960 --> 02:12:16,640
Speaker 5: I saw this other company that was like it was

2583
02:12:16,680 --> 02:12:19,680
Speaker 5: designed to help you get over the loss of your pet,

2584
02:12:20,000 --> 02:12:22,120
Speaker 5: where you could you could pump tons of photos of

2585
02:12:22,160 --> 02:12:26,040
Speaker 5: your pet into this AI into this AI generator and

2586
02:12:26,320 --> 02:12:29,440
Speaker 5: it will generate new images and this is proven to

2587
02:12:29,480 --> 02:12:32,400
Speaker 5: help you move on from loss, which is literally a

2588
02:12:32,520 --> 02:12:37,680
Speaker 5: Nathan Fielder joke from like seven years ago, seven years ago,

2589
02:12:37,960 --> 02:12:40,880
Speaker 5: and like, no, you should talk with your friends about that.

2590
02:12:41,080 --> 02:12:43,400
Speaker 5: That's why you are a human. That's how you can

2591
02:12:43,480 --> 02:12:46,720
Speaker 5: move on from loss. You have to make new connections.

2592
02:12:47,360 --> 02:12:50,760
Speaker 5: Poorly AI generated images of your cat aren't going to

2593
02:12:50,840 --> 02:12:56,680
Speaker 5: help you move on, Like what why? Anyway, Replacing friendship

2594
02:12:56,800 --> 02:12:58,040
Speaker 5: is the thing that I see a lot of the

2595
02:12:58,120 --> 02:13:00,600
Speaker 5: tech world wanting to do, maybe because they don't understand

2596
02:13:00,680 --> 02:13:05,680
Speaker 5: real human relationships that aren't like innately transactional. I'm not sure,

2597
02:13:05,800 --> 02:13:08,040
Speaker 5: but that is like a huge trend that I've seen

2598
02:13:08,080 --> 02:13:09,280
Speaker 5: multiple multiple people mention.

2599
02:13:09,760 --> 02:13:13,440
Speaker 14: All right, Zi, So I've worked in this industry for

2600
02:13:13,680 --> 02:13:17,200
Speaker 14: like three years now and this is my first big convention,

2601
02:13:18,080 --> 02:13:21,120
Speaker 14: and I would say, uh, this is just affirmed pretty

2602
02:13:21,160 --> 02:13:24,360
Speaker 14: much all of my disillusions with the tech world, and

2603
02:13:25,280 --> 02:13:29,880
Speaker 14: most of it's just nonsense. And maybe the postive people

2604
02:13:29,920 --> 02:13:30,880
Speaker 14: are onto some stuff.

2605
02:13:32,640 --> 02:13:34,920
Speaker 1: Well you say that, but I really do think via

2606
02:13:35,000 --> 02:13:38,560
Speaker 1: dox is kind of revolutionize the way in which mysterious

2607
02:13:38,640 --> 02:13:43,480
Speaker 1: fogs kill large numbers of the Maybe, but don't name

2608
02:13:43,560 --> 02:13:46,320
Speaker 1: it something so sinister. Yeah, yeah, it's if you were

2609
02:13:46,360 --> 02:13:47,720
Speaker 1: to be like this is the thing that keeps your

2610
02:13:47,760 --> 02:13:49,720
Speaker 1: apples fresh for a long time. That would be great.

2611
02:13:49,760 --> 02:13:51,840
Speaker 1: I would just don't call it apple fresh, yes, but

2612
02:13:51,960 --> 02:13:52,840
Speaker 1: call it apple fresh.

2613
02:13:53,920 --> 02:13:55,520
Speaker 5: By the way, you should listen to You should listen

2614
02:13:55,520 --> 02:13:58,760
Speaker 5: to Better Offline to hear context for veradox, which we

2615
02:13:58,840 --> 02:14:01,240
Speaker 5: discussed in the last episode of our daily Cees coverage

2616
02:14:01,320 --> 02:14:05,240
Speaker 5: over there with the wonderful Edixitron. But essentially baradox is

2617
02:14:05,280 --> 02:14:09,320
Speaker 5: this missed. They get sprayed on produce, which allegedly helps

2618
02:14:09,400 --> 02:14:12,120
Speaker 5: it stay shelf stable for a few more days.

2619
02:14:14,360 --> 02:14:17,919
Speaker 1: Exactly. So maybe that shelf stable mist will also translate

2620
02:14:17,960 --> 02:14:18,640
Speaker 1: to waking.

2621
02:14:18,480 --> 02:14:21,040
Speaker 15: Up the dead possibly, But you don't know that it's

2622
02:14:21,160 --> 02:14:22,600
Speaker 15: gonna do You don't know that it's not going to

2623
02:14:22,640 --> 02:14:23,320
Speaker 15: do that, right right.

2624
02:14:25,440 --> 02:14:28,160
Speaker 1: As a journalist, that's sorry, you have to ask these questions.

2625
02:14:28,240 --> 02:14:31,200
Speaker 5: And we discussed that way more in depth on Better Offline.

2626
02:14:31,280 --> 02:14:33,640
Speaker 15: Yeah, we do discuss whether the ability to bring red

2627
02:14:33,720 --> 02:14:36,720
Speaker 15: leaf led us back to life does have any repercussions

2628
02:14:37,160 --> 02:14:40,080
Speaker 15: in a pet cemetery sort of way for your possibly

2629
02:14:40,120 --> 02:14:40,720
Speaker 15: dead loved ones.

2630
02:14:41,840 --> 02:14:45,080
Speaker 1: David, it's me sorry. A lot of good points.

2631
02:14:45,160 --> 02:14:47,480
Speaker 15: I mean, I think garyin ever both made the point

2632
02:14:47,520 --> 02:14:51,520
Speaker 15: about the sort of sociopathic like thread of a lot

2633
02:14:51,560 --> 02:14:53,640
Speaker 15: of this just sort of like an inability to understand

2634
02:14:53,720 --> 02:14:57,520
Speaker 15: not just what people might want from a technology, I think,

2635
02:14:57,560 --> 02:15:00,400
Speaker 15: which is to fuel not I mean, they're probably our people.

2636
02:15:00,440 --> 02:15:02,000
Speaker 1: I imagine that. It's like if you were the guy,

2637
02:15:02,280 --> 02:15:05,120
Speaker 1: the dude that's like trying to age himself backwards. You know,

2638
02:15:05,320 --> 02:15:08,360
Speaker 1: he's like Brian Johnson. Brian Johnson. We love Brian's.

2639
02:15:09,480 --> 02:15:12,160
Speaker 15: Yeah, but he like I feel like he would have

2640
02:15:12,240 --> 02:15:15,600
Speaker 15: been walking through this clapping his hands with delight.

2641
02:15:17,680 --> 02:15:21,480
Speaker 5: A day, drinking his son's blood time for Yeah, it's a.

2642
02:15:21,600 --> 02:15:25,320
Speaker 1: It's I drink his son's blood pretty rights and it's

2643
02:15:25,360 --> 02:15:25,800
Speaker 1: not bad.

2644
02:15:25,720 --> 02:15:28,840
Speaker 15: The high quality plot, but that it felt like it

2645
02:15:28,960 --> 02:15:30,440
Speaker 15: was that that there was a lot of this sort

2646
02:15:30,480 --> 02:15:35,600
Speaker 15: of like an optimization onto like transcending being human at all.

2647
02:15:35,760 --> 02:15:38,480
Speaker 15: And I don't think I mean again, there probably are

2648
02:15:38,520 --> 02:15:40,920
Speaker 15: people that want that. They certainly have money. I don't

2649
02:15:41,040 --> 02:15:45,160
Speaker 15: imagine that. I think what most people would like. I mean,

2650
02:15:45,200 --> 02:15:47,280
Speaker 15: then you don't expect technology to make you feel more human.

2651
02:15:47,480 --> 02:15:49,280
Speaker 15: But something I've been thinking.

2652
02:15:49,160 --> 02:15:52,000
Speaker 1: About a lot. We're talking about this a lot on Better.

2653
02:15:51,880 --> 02:15:55,640
Speaker 15: Offline, But there's a passivity that a lot of this

2654
02:15:56,040 --> 02:15:58,840
Speaker 15: sort of seems to be forcing onto people where you're

2655
02:15:58,880 --> 02:16:01,280
Speaker 15: just like sort of are happening to you that make

2656
02:16:01,320 --> 02:16:03,200
Speaker 15: your life more efficient and convenient.

2657
02:16:03,320 --> 02:16:05,640
Speaker 1: And I don't think that I want that.

2658
02:16:06,280 --> 02:16:08,840
Speaker 15: I mean, I'm older than and poorer than the you

2659
02:16:08,920 --> 02:16:11,600
Speaker 15: know market that I think they're aiming for with this,

2660
02:16:11,760 --> 02:16:14,680
Speaker 15: But it's certainly old enough to remember, as you said,

2661
02:16:14,760 --> 02:16:17,600
Speaker 15: like finding music, like that's a thing that yeah, you know,

2662
02:16:17,680 --> 02:16:19,400
Speaker 15: your friends tell you about it. And in my case,

2663
02:16:19,400 --> 02:16:22,760
Speaker 15: I mean again just being in my middle age, you

2664
02:16:22,880 --> 02:16:24,440
Speaker 15: like go to a store and you flip through shit,

2665
02:16:24,560 --> 02:16:28,240
Speaker 15: like there's a distinction between finding something and being given

2666
02:16:28,440 --> 02:16:30,720
Speaker 15: something or being fed to something like you're a foa

2667
02:16:30,800 --> 02:16:33,440
Speaker 15: grag goose and it's just getting sort of piped into

2668
02:16:33,480 --> 02:16:35,160
Speaker 15: your brain and life and being.

2669
02:16:35,520 --> 02:16:38,080
Speaker 1: And I think it's an important distinction. I think that

2670
02:16:38,240 --> 02:16:38,800
Speaker 1: little bit of.

2671
02:16:38,840 --> 02:16:42,200
Speaker 15: Agency of having some sense of doing the things that

2672
02:16:42,320 --> 02:16:45,160
Speaker 15: you want to do, like I would imagine that, well,

2673
02:16:45,240 --> 02:16:47,480
Speaker 15: I don't have to imagine it technology that helps you

2674
02:16:47,600 --> 02:16:49,560
Speaker 15: do that as opposed to doing it for you.

2675
02:16:49,720 --> 02:16:50,120
Speaker 1: I think that.

2676
02:16:51,800 --> 02:16:53,880
Speaker 15: I don't want stuff that makes me feel less human.

2677
02:16:54,080 --> 02:16:55,880
Speaker 15: I don't want stuff that makes me feel more like

2678
02:16:56,080 --> 02:16:58,440
Speaker 15: I'm in a fucking matrix pod and I think that

2679
02:16:59,680 --> 02:17:01,720
Speaker 15: a lot of the stuff that was out there seemed

2680
02:17:01,800 --> 02:17:02,720
Speaker 15: targeted towards the.

2681
02:17:04,200 --> 02:17:07,720
Speaker 1: Matrix pod dwelling community. I think that's that's about the

2682
02:17:07,760 --> 02:17:11,360
Speaker 1: best line we could go out on, like, that's that's yeah,

2683
02:17:11,640 --> 02:17:12,120
Speaker 1: you nailed it.

2684
02:17:12,200 --> 02:17:12,400
Speaker 4: Thanks.

2685
02:17:12,440 --> 02:17:14,360
Speaker 1: I thought I crushed that one. Yeah you did. You did,

2686
02:17:14,760 --> 02:17:18,160
Speaker 1: great job, Dave. Where can people find your workday defector

2687
02:17:18,240 --> 02:17:21,080
Speaker 1: dot com? Why let me do that without crushing my water? No, no, no, no,

2688
02:17:21,200 --> 02:17:21,680
Speaker 1: that's okay.

2689
02:17:21,959 --> 02:17:22,080
Speaker 5: Let me.

2690
02:17:22,280 --> 02:17:25,320
Speaker 1: That's a load bearing piece of content. Defector dot com

2691
02:17:25,440 --> 02:17:26,959
Speaker 1: is the website and at.

2692
02:17:27,280 --> 02:17:30,720
Speaker 16: Big black Jack a bit on Twitter and Blue Sky.

2693
02:17:31,080 --> 02:17:33,920
Speaker 16: This Machine Kills is my podcast. Tech Bubble dot Soapstack

2694
02:17:33,959 --> 02:17:35,320
Speaker 16: dot com is the newsletter.

2695
02:17:35,800 --> 02:17:38,520
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, do you want to tell people how to

2696
02:17:38,600 --> 02:17:38,920
Speaker 1: find you?

2697
02:17:39,600 --> 02:17:43,759
Speaker 14: Zi hat new old woman on Twitter with okay zeros.

2698
02:17:44,879 --> 02:17:45,920
Speaker 5: Zeros for neo.

2699
02:17:45,959 --> 02:17:48,720
Speaker 1: Zeros, All right, everybody, Well, uh, that's going to do

2700
02:17:48,800 --> 02:17:50,680
Speaker 1: it for us here at It could happen here and

2701
02:17:50,800 --> 02:17:53,160
Speaker 1: are week at cees. You know, just try to hub

2702
02:17:53,280 --> 02:17:55,879
Speaker 1: hug your loved ones until the Viera ox sweeps through

2703
02:17:56,160 --> 02:18:00,520
Speaker 1: all of their homes neighborhoods. Yeah, it's in the room,

2704
02:18:00,600 --> 02:18:01,200
Speaker 1: It's in the room.

2705
02:18:16,200 --> 02:18:19,160
Speaker 13: Welcome to ninkadappan here a podcast about things falling apart,

2706
02:18:19,240 --> 02:18:21,480
Speaker 13: how to put them back together again. I am your host,

2707
02:18:21,560 --> 02:18:26,120
Speaker 13: Mia Long Return for the holidays, Returned, rejuvenated, returned, refreshed,

2708
02:18:26,920 --> 02:18:29,280
Speaker 13: Return to do something a little bit different.

2709
02:18:30,080 --> 02:18:31,000
Speaker 1: In the coming weeks.

2710
02:18:31,080 --> 02:18:32,720
Speaker 13: We're going to be doing a lot of nitty gritty

2711
02:18:32,720 --> 02:18:34,600
Speaker 13: analysis of the coming wave of fascism.

2712
02:18:35,000 --> 02:18:38,039
Speaker 1: But what we haven't really been doing as much.

2713
02:18:38,160 --> 02:18:39,879
Speaker 5: What I want to take some time to do today

2714
02:18:40,120 --> 02:18:43,360
Speaker 5: is to talk about fascism atic sort of macro level

2715
02:18:43,480 --> 02:18:46,640
Speaker 5: and what it looks like right now, and also talk

2716
02:18:46,800 --> 02:18:49,480
Speaker 5: about an extremely cooked guy.

2717
02:18:49,480 --> 02:18:54,199
Speaker 9: Who blew himself up in a cyb outside of Trump Building,

2718
02:18:55,720 --> 02:19:01,600
Speaker 9: and with me to talk about this is writer, organizer, agitator,

2719
02:19:01,800 --> 02:19:06,080
Speaker 9: doer of so many different things that like, I don't

2720
02:19:06,080 --> 02:19:08,440
Speaker 9: know someone's going to write a great biography in like

2721
02:19:08,800 --> 02:19:09,680
Speaker 9: one hundred years.

2722
02:19:09,959 --> 02:19:10,200
Speaker 5: It is.

2723
02:19:10,280 --> 02:19:12,040
Speaker 1: It is the one and only Vicky Oshtawhile.

2724
02:19:13,360 --> 02:19:13,680
Speaker 10: Thank you.

2725
02:19:14,560 --> 02:19:16,760
Speaker 17: Sorry, I couldn't keep the giggle down long enough for

2726
02:19:16,840 --> 02:19:19,120
Speaker 17: you to get to the intro before you're you find

2727
02:19:19,160 --> 02:19:19,880
Speaker 17: people could hear me.

2728
02:19:22,280 --> 02:19:23,600
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm glad to have you here.

2729
02:19:23,720 --> 02:19:27,160
Speaker 13: And part part of this the initial thing that was like, okay,

2730
02:19:27,200 --> 02:19:30,000
Speaker 13: we need to do this was I saw you called

2731
02:19:30,160 --> 02:19:33,840
Speaker 13: all of this the years of lead paint, and that

2732
02:19:34,080 --> 02:19:36,680
Speaker 13: is just it has stuck in my mind every for

2733
02:19:36,800 --> 02:19:39,080
Speaker 13: every single second of every day since then.

2734
02:19:40,080 --> 02:19:43,320
Speaker 17: Yeah, yeah, I was writing for the journal that I

2735
02:19:43,360 --> 02:19:45,600
Speaker 17: am working and fundraising for CA Go chext us out,

2736
02:19:45,800 --> 02:19:48,760
Speaker 17: but I wrote a piece about how unpleasant the cyberpunk

2737
02:19:48,800 --> 02:19:51,720
Speaker 17: dystopia is in the face of you know, that sort

2738
02:19:51,720 --> 02:19:54,080
Speaker 17: of that image of the cyber truck on fire outside

2739
02:19:54,080 --> 02:19:56,680
Speaker 17: the Trump Hotel. Then about you know, as we were

2740
02:19:56,760 --> 02:19:58,960
Speaker 17: about to talk about Matthew Livelsburger, I think is how

2741
02:19:58,959 --> 02:20:03,080
Speaker 17: it's pronounced, who's the green beret? Then big Trump fan

2742
02:20:03,280 --> 02:20:06,040
Speaker 17: who thought blowing up a cyber trunk outside of the

2743
02:20:06,080 --> 02:20:08,600
Speaker 17: Trump Hotel would start not a race war, but like

2744
02:20:08,760 --> 02:20:10,320
Speaker 17: the purging of democratic politicians.

2745
02:20:10,400 --> 02:20:12,920
Speaker 13: Is that what we think his yeah, version was, Now

2746
02:20:13,080 --> 02:20:17,120
Speaker 13: that seems to be it like politicians, and like it's

2747
02:20:17,200 --> 02:20:19,160
Speaker 13: kind of an evolution of the like purge the deep

2748
02:20:19,240 --> 02:20:21,480
Speaker 13: state thing where he wants democrats gone from like the

2749
02:20:21,720 --> 02:20:24,879
Speaker 13: army and right right, you know, so it's the kind

2750
02:20:24,920 --> 02:20:28,560
Speaker 13: of more generic version of like the sort of Nazi

2751
02:20:28,640 --> 02:20:30,320
Speaker 13: fantasy of the day of the rope from the Turner

2752
02:20:30,400 --> 02:20:32,800
Speaker 13: Diaries is kind of like metastasized into all this right

2753
02:20:32,840 --> 02:20:34,960
Speaker 13: wing culture where they have their own sort of like

2754
02:20:35,560 --> 02:20:40,120
Speaker 13: less race worry or like less anti Semitic versions of it. Yes,

2755
02:20:40,360 --> 02:20:43,560
Speaker 13: and that's apparently what this guy was trying to start

2756
02:20:43,680 --> 02:20:46,440
Speaker 13: off by exactly blowing himself up with a.

2757
02:20:46,480 --> 02:20:48,800
Speaker 5: Truck full of fireworks in front of a Trump.

2758
02:20:50,080 --> 02:20:53,160
Speaker 17: So basically, this guy that the spaping a Green Beret, which,

2759
02:20:53,280 --> 02:20:55,880
Speaker 17: like say what you will, arguably some of the most

2760
02:20:56,160 --> 02:20:59,320
Speaker 17: trained and experienced murderers in the world, you know, whatever

2761
02:20:59,360 --> 02:21:01,039
Speaker 17: else you say about and this is important.

2762
02:21:01,080 --> 02:21:04,040
Speaker 13: You know, I'm not sure there's any capacity drop in

2763
02:21:04,120 --> 02:21:06,600
Speaker 13: the world that is greater than the drop from like

2764
02:21:06,800 --> 02:21:09,240
Speaker 13: green Beret to like former Green Beret.

2765
02:21:09,400 --> 02:21:13,400
Speaker 1: This guy was active duty, so like right, yes, yes, yes, exactly.

2766
02:21:14,120 --> 02:21:15,480
Speaker 1: This wasn't even like a cooked vet.

2767
02:21:15,560 --> 02:21:17,520
Speaker 17: This is a guy who is like in the shit

2768
02:21:18,240 --> 02:21:20,320
Speaker 17: and we know that he was drinking the kool aid

2769
02:21:20,320 --> 02:21:21,520
Speaker 17: because he used chat GPT.

2770
02:21:22,040 --> 02:21:24,360
Speaker 10: He've just turned out today to help plan his attack.

2771
02:21:24,800 --> 02:21:30,560
Speaker 17: But unfortunately, despite his murder expertise which undeniable, cyber truck,

2772
02:21:30,680 --> 02:21:33,640
Speaker 17: like all Tesla's, is designed mostly to endanger the people

2773
02:21:33,680 --> 02:21:38,400
Speaker 17: inside it because they won't sue Tesla because they're already

2774
02:21:38,640 --> 02:21:41,200
Speaker 17: huge super fans, And what I really mean, of course,

2775
02:21:41,280 --> 02:21:43,840
Speaker 17: is that they have terrible safety protocols. And the cyber truck,

2776
02:21:44,280 --> 02:21:45,960
Speaker 17: which is like a twelve year old's idea of a

2777
02:21:46,040 --> 02:21:49,800
Speaker 17: good idea, which is an incredibly incredibly firm, stainless steel

2778
02:21:49,879 --> 02:21:52,760
Speaker 17: body which does not crumple and does not take damage,

2779
02:21:53,120 --> 02:21:57,200
Speaker 17: which means that your frail human body inside it in

2780
02:21:57,280 --> 02:22:00,400
Speaker 17: an accident bashes against a wall of steel metal, very

2781
02:22:00,560 --> 02:22:04,520
Speaker 17: dangerous to be inside. But the car doesn't take damage,

2782
02:22:04,760 --> 02:22:06,520
Speaker 17: and that means that if you leave a bomb in it,

2783
02:22:07,280 --> 02:22:09,960
Speaker 17: the sides of the car were fine, so the explosion

2784
02:22:10,000 --> 02:22:12,680
Speaker 17: went straight up right, so it did no damage to

2785
02:22:12,720 --> 02:22:14,440
Speaker 17: the hotel. It's not clear if he intended that, but

2786
02:22:14,520 --> 02:22:16,080
Speaker 17: it seems like he probably wanted to do a.

2787
02:22:16,040 --> 02:22:17,080
Speaker 10: Little damage at the hotel.

2788
02:22:17,400 --> 02:22:20,520
Speaker 17: Most people who are doing suicide bombings want that, I

2789
02:22:20,560 --> 02:22:25,600
Speaker 17: would imagine. So anyway, all this is to say, you

2790
02:22:25,680 --> 02:22:27,879
Speaker 17: know this guy who's like an active duty green beret

2791
02:22:27,959 --> 02:22:30,280
Speaker 17: who believes for some reason that attacking a Trump hotel

2792
02:22:30,480 --> 02:22:33,400
Speaker 17: in an elon musk car will somehow lead to the

2793
02:22:33,480 --> 02:22:37,560
Speaker 17: murder of Democrats. But he's so tech pilled that he

2794
02:22:37,680 --> 02:22:40,240
Speaker 17: takes a cyber truck, which doesn't even work as a

2795
02:22:40,320 --> 02:22:43,720
Speaker 17: bomb and dies in it and just leaves this like

2796
02:22:44,120 --> 02:22:46,560
Speaker 17: horrible image. And I mean, you know, I'm being flippant

2797
02:22:46,560 --> 02:22:48,760
Speaker 17: about this, Like it's awful thing obviously, but no one

2798
02:22:48,800 --> 02:22:50,880
Speaker 17: else was hurt except himself. I mean, the image was

2799
02:22:50,920 --> 02:22:53,240
Speaker 17: everywhere on social media for like the last three days

2800
02:22:53,280 --> 02:22:55,160
Speaker 17: of that of that cyber truck on fire outside of

2801
02:22:55,160 --> 02:22:57,960
Speaker 17: the Trump towers. Yeah, it was the perfect image of

2802
02:22:58,000 --> 02:22:59,520
Speaker 17: a thing I had already been thinking of as the

2803
02:22:59,600 --> 02:23:01,920
Speaker 17: years of life. So I wrote an essay around that basically.

2804
02:23:03,080 --> 02:23:05,600
Speaker 13: Yeah, So I want to start talking about this by

2805
02:23:05,680 --> 02:23:07,760
Speaker 13: getting a little bit into what the years of lead are,

2806
02:23:07,879 --> 02:23:11,760
Speaker 13: because I imagine it's some of you, like there's probably,

2807
02:23:11,959 --> 02:23:14,360
Speaker 13: like I don't know, there's probably several thousand of you

2808
02:23:14,480 --> 02:23:17,000
Speaker 13: who are obsessive nerds about the years of lead and

2809
02:23:17,240 --> 02:23:19,320
Speaker 13: like know the name of every single guy he was

2810
02:23:19,400 --> 02:23:23,360
Speaker 13: implicated for these car bombings, but for everyone else who's normal.

2811
02:23:23,560 --> 02:23:25,800
Speaker 13: And I caught myself among the non normal people because

2812
02:23:25,800 --> 02:23:27,880
Speaker 13: I did. I spent about two years going down the

2813
02:23:27,959 --> 02:23:30,440
Speaker 13: years of lead rabbit hole and destroyed my brain. But

2814
02:23:30,640 --> 02:23:33,600
Speaker 13: the years of lead were this thing in roughly the

2815
02:23:33,680 --> 02:23:36,960
Speaker 13: seventies and the eighties, in Italy, where as a response

2816
02:23:37,160 --> 02:23:39,280
Speaker 13: to the sort of rising power of the left through

2817
02:23:39,320 --> 02:23:41,880
Speaker 13: the sixties, and like the giant uprising is ninety sixty eight.

2818
02:23:42,080 --> 02:23:44,080
Speaker 13: And Italy's kind of different from the rest of Europe

2819
02:23:44,120 --> 02:23:47,440
Speaker 13: because in Italy, you know, like in France, for example,

2820
02:23:47,480 --> 02:23:49,400
Speaker 13: France has this huge up rising in May sixty eight,

2821
02:23:49,440 --> 02:23:51,760
Speaker 13: like they nearly knock off the government, like workers councils

2822
02:23:51,800 --> 02:23:54,360
Speaker 13: have seized control of the factories, like they lose this

2823
02:23:54,440 --> 02:23:56,400
Speaker 13: our bottle, Like there's you know, the president's like fleeing

2824
02:23:56,400 --> 02:23:59,600
Speaker 13: at a helicopter. But then after that, like they kind

2825
02:23:59,640 --> 02:24:03,800
Speaker 13: of never seriously threatened the French government. Again in Italy,

2826
02:24:03,879 --> 02:24:05,000
Speaker 13: that is not true.

2827
02:24:05,000 --> 02:24:05,680
Speaker 5: Like sixty eight.

2828
02:24:05,760 --> 02:24:07,840
Speaker 13: In Italy, there's a very similar thing going on, but

2829
02:24:07,879 --> 02:24:09,400
Speaker 13: like the seizure of the factories has been going on

2830
02:24:09,680 --> 02:24:11,879
Speaker 13: since Like I mean, stuff like this has been happening

2831
02:24:11,879 --> 02:24:15,480
Speaker 13: since the fifties, and it really only stops in nineteen

2832
02:24:15,480 --> 02:24:17,720
Speaker 13: seventy seven when like they have one last big push

2833
02:24:17,800 --> 02:24:20,880
Speaker 13: uprising and it fails. So as a way to contain this,

2834
02:24:21,000 --> 02:24:25,800
Speaker 13: the Italian government develops this strategy of backing right wing

2835
02:24:25,920 --> 02:24:28,720
Speaker 13: terror groups and then also orchestrating left wing terror groups

2836
02:24:28,720 --> 02:24:30,640
Speaker 13: and by terror groups I mean, like the most famous

2837
02:24:30,920 --> 02:24:32,680
Speaker 13: thing in this is called the Bolognia train bombing in

2838
02:24:32,720 --> 02:24:36,360
Speaker 13: nineteen eighty. It kills eighty five people, wounds like two

2839
02:24:36,520 --> 02:24:40,200
Speaker 13: hundred and ninety. Like it's a really really horrific attack,

2840
02:24:40,200 --> 02:24:42,039
Speaker 13: and it's immediately blamed that an anarchist group. It turns

2841
02:24:42,080 --> 02:24:43,760
Speaker 13: out it's not an anarchist group. It is a state

2842
02:24:43,840 --> 02:24:47,039
Speaker 13: back like fascist group. And yeah, like there are other

2843
02:24:47,120 --> 02:24:49,240
Speaker 13: ones I will pass over to VICTI you talk about,

2844
02:24:49,280 --> 02:24:52,080
Speaker 13: like the other terrible shit that they did.

2845
02:24:52,440 --> 02:24:55,039
Speaker 17: Well, that bombing kind of ends in some ways ends

2846
02:24:55,080 --> 02:24:57,000
Speaker 17: the years of lad you could end it there.

2847
02:24:57,040 --> 02:24:58,520
Speaker 10: It's sort of the last big terrorist month.

2848
02:24:58,920 --> 02:25:01,000
Speaker 17: The first thing, the event that like sort of after

2849
02:25:01,080 --> 02:25:02,760
Speaker 17: sixty eight kind of starts at as this thing called

2850
02:25:02,800 --> 02:25:06,400
Speaker 17: the Piazza Fontana bonding in Milan, which is like an

2851
02:25:06,480 --> 02:25:08,920
Speaker 17: agriculture bank, I think is what it's called. It's just

2852
02:25:09,000 --> 02:25:11,760
Speaker 17: like but seventeen people are killed, almost one hundred people

2853
02:25:11,800 --> 02:25:13,920
Speaker 17: are wounded, and the first thing that the police do

2854
02:25:14,040 --> 02:25:16,680
Speaker 17: is they blame anarchists in sixty eight as well, And

2855
02:25:16,720 --> 02:25:18,880
Speaker 17: there's a famous there's a famous case of this anarchist

2856
02:25:19,000 --> 02:25:22,560
Speaker 17: organizer named Pinelli who is arrested and then while he

2857
02:25:22,720 --> 02:25:26,360
Speaker 17: is under interrogation, falls out of the window of the

2858
02:25:26,400 --> 02:25:27,800
Speaker 17: police department to his death.

2859
02:25:28,640 --> 02:25:28,840
Speaker 1: Yep.

2860
02:25:29,160 --> 02:25:31,640
Speaker 17: It has still never been proven that he was pushed.

2861
02:25:31,760 --> 02:25:35,760
Speaker 17: The police claimed he've jumped out after they interrogated him

2862
02:25:35,840 --> 02:25:36,320
Speaker 17: really hard.

2863
02:25:36,480 --> 02:25:36,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2864
02:25:36,760 --> 02:25:37,000
Speaker 10: Sure.

2865
02:25:37,160 --> 02:25:39,400
Speaker 17: Oh Like here's a very famous Italian play about it

2866
02:25:39,480 --> 02:25:42,039
Speaker 17: by Dario Foe called the Death of an Anarchist. So anyways,

2867
02:25:42,080 --> 02:25:44,720
Speaker 17: they blame the anarchists, They literally murder a leading anarchist

2868
02:25:44,920 --> 02:25:47,800
Speaker 17: printer and organizer, and then of course it turns out

2869
02:25:47,800 --> 02:25:50,720
Speaker 17: that it was this terrorist group called ordinay Nuovo, who was,

2870
02:25:50,920 --> 02:25:52,959
Speaker 17: you know, this neo fascist group that had let's say

2871
02:25:53,080 --> 02:25:56,600
Speaker 17: significant overlap with parts of the Italian state. And I

2872
02:25:56,680 --> 02:25:58,760
Speaker 17: think like one way of understanding the years of Lead,

2873
02:25:58,840 --> 02:26:00,800
Speaker 17: I think that might be easy forople who aren't familiar

2874
02:26:00,879 --> 02:26:02,840
Speaker 17: with it, is that it's it's like a very low

2875
02:26:02,959 --> 02:26:05,520
Speaker 17: level civil war. It's it's I think the closest thing

2876
02:26:05,560 --> 02:26:08,680
Speaker 17: we can maybe think of as the troubles in Northern Ireland. Yeah,

2877
02:26:08,800 --> 02:26:10,600
Speaker 17: and the reason those were a little different was because

2878
02:26:10,600 --> 02:26:12,840
Speaker 17: a lot of those attacks were happening in England, whereas

2879
02:26:12,959 --> 02:26:14,600
Speaker 17: like the you know, the movement was in Ireland. But

2880
02:26:15,040 --> 02:26:18,560
Speaker 17: this is very similar, which is like there's these armed wings,

2881
02:26:19,040 --> 02:26:20,680
Speaker 17: both on the right and the left that are like

2882
02:26:21,320 --> 02:26:24,119
Speaker 17: both meeting in combat and sort of fighting each other.

2883
02:26:24,320 --> 02:26:27,640
Speaker 17: But in this instance, rather than a colonial occupation that

2884
02:26:27,640 --> 02:26:32,000
Speaker 17: they're fighting against, the Italian government was literally both paying

2885
02:26:32,120 --> 02:26:35,000
Speaker 17: for arming the fascists and instructing them to frame the

2886
02:26:35,080 --> 02:26:35,960
Speaker 17: left for these attacks.

2887
02:26:36,160 --> 02:26:38,200
Speaker 13: Yeah, and there's I mean, there's other stuff too. We're

2888
02:26:38,240 --> 02:26:40,320
Speaker 13: not going to get into the kidnapping of Aldo Moro here.

2889
02:26:40,600 --> 02:26:43,320
Speaker 13: I have explained this on the show at some point.

2890
02:26:43,400 --> 02:26:43,960
Speaker 1: I think it's in.

2891
02:26:44,240 --> 02:26:45,640
Speaker 13: I think it's in if you go to the Hall

2892
02:26:45,640 --> 02:26:47,720
Speaker 13: of Weed episode we did where we talk about conspiracies.

2893
02:26:47,720 --> 02:26:50,920
Speaker 13: I've explained that whole thing. But like the goal of this, right,

2894
02:26:51,160 --> 02:26:53,200
Speaker 13: the reason that you know, they're they're giving all of

2895
02:26:53,240 --> 02:26:55,520
Speaker 13: these weapons to these like stay behind networks, so it's

2896
02:26:55,520 --> 02:26:57,760
Speaker 13: designed to like fight a Soviet invasion and like and

2897
02:26:57,879 --> 02:27:01,400
Speaker 13: having all these bombings was specifically something they call the

2898
02:27:01,400 --> 02:27:04,800
Speaker 13: strategy of tension, which is a strategy of promoting sort

2899
02:27:04,840 --> 02:27:08,240
Speaker 13: of mass violence and promoting terror as a strategy to

2900
02:27:08,360 --> 02:27:11,120
Speaker 13: drive people back towards the state. Because the idea was

2901
02:27:11,160 --> 02:27:13,200
Speaker 13: and this and this seems to have worked. You know,

2902
02:27:13,360 --> 02:27:15,480
Speaker 13: you scare people enough by the fact that there's you know,

2903
02:27:15,520 --> 02:27:17,560
Speaker 13: there's bombs going off all the time, people are getting killed,

2904
02:27:17,560 --> 02:27:19,800
Speaker 13: people are getting kidnapped, There's all of this just like

2905
02:27:20,120 --> 02:27:23,960
Speaker 13: horror happening, and the goal is to get people to

2906
02:27:24,040 --> 02:27:26,039
Speaker 13: turn to the state for you know, sort of order

2907
02:27:26,120 --> 02:27:28,760
Speaker 13: insecurity and like stop doing all of this uprising stuff

2908
02:27:28,800 --> 02:27:30,280
Speaker 13: because we need you know, we need to sort of

2909
02:27:30,360 --> 02:27:30,920
Speaker 13: terror to end.

2910
02:27:31,959 --> 02:27:32,879
Speaker 5: And it was.

2911
02:27:32,879 --> 02:27:35,880
Speaker 13: Extremely effective, and the sort of knowledge of this has

2912
02:27:36,160 --> 02:27:38,680
Speaker 13: I guess proliferated through the American left in the last

2913
02:27:39,600 --> 02:27:43,040
Speaker 13: like decade, and that has led to a lot of

2914
02:27:44,360 --> 02:27:47,680
Speaker 13: I think kind of unhelpful comparisons. You will hear people

2915
02:27:47,760 --> 02:27:50,840
Speaker 13: sometimes talk about like American Gladio, which is Gladio is

2916
02:27:50,879 --> 02:27:52,840
Speaker 13: those those state behind networks that were armed by the

2917
02:27:52,920 --> 02:27:54,640
Speaker 13: Italian state and used as sort of the basis of

2918
02:27:54,680 --> 02:27:58,200
Speaker 13: these neo fascist groups, and like to refer to this

2919
02:27:58,280 --> 02:28:00,240
Speaker 13: sort of like I don't like what's happening in the US,

2920
02:28:00,240 --> 02:28:02,960
Speaker 13: and that's not really what's happening. And this is where

2921
02:28:02,959 --> 02:28:04,480
Speaker 13: I want to pass it to VICKI to talk about

2922
02:28:04,680 --> 02:28:07,039
Speaker 13: sort of the characteristics of what we're calling the Years

2923
02:28:07,080 --> 02:28:09,119
Speaker 13: of Lead Paint and how they're sort of different from

2924
02:28:09,160 --> 02:28:10,120
Speaker 13: the Italian ones.

2925
02:28:10,680 --> 02:28:15,240
Speaker 17: Yeah, in classic American fashion. Everything is more chaotic and autonomous, yes,

2926
02:28:15,959 --> 02:28:20,080
Speaker 17: and widely proliferated and also widely proliferated all over America

2927
02:28:20,440 --> 02:28:21,360
Speaker 17: products and services.

2928
02:28:21,680 --> 02:28:22,240
Speaker 10: Did I do again?

2929
02:28:22,360 --> 02:28:37,920
Speaker 1: Let's support this podcast. That's a good one. We are back,

2930
02:28:37,920 --> 02:28:39,640
Speaker 1: all right, Years of Blood Paint. Let's go.

2931
02:28:40,160 --> 02:28:42,840
Speaker 17: Yes, Right, So I actually think, you know, as you

2932
02:28:42,920 --> 02:28:45,080
Speaker 17: were saying that, I think actually a thing that might

2933
02:28:45,120 --> 02:28:47,840
Speaker 17: be the closest to Gladio And it's not Gladio, because

2934
02:28:47,879 --> 02:28:49,480
Speaker 17: that was very conscious and it was like these stay

2935
02:28:49,520 --> 02:28:53,520
Speaker 17: behind networks are organized explicitly but the US state defense

2936
02:28:53,760 --> 02:28:57,760
Speaker 17: of the Second Amendment and of like assault rifle availability

2937
02:28:57,920 --> 02:29:00,959
Speaker 17: and making the US the sort of home for military

2938
02:29:01,000 --> 02:29:04,200
Speaker 17: surplus because obviously, like the military industrial complex sells lots

2939
02:29:04,200 --> 02:29:06,600
Speaker 17: of guns. It's a very helpful thing that producing a

2940
02:29:06,680 --> 02:29:09,600
Speaker 17: reign of mass shooters who also operate in a sort

2941
02:29:09,640 --> 02:29:11,960
Speaker 17: of Years of Lead terroristic sort of strategy of tension way,

2942
02:29:12,280 --> 02:29:14,720
Speaker 17: I think might actually be close. But you can tell

2943
02:29:14,800 --> 02:29:17,800
Speaker 17: that that's very disorganized. Yeah, it's very distributed through the

2944
02:29:17,840 --> 02:29:21,920
Speaker 17: social it's done by you know, volunteers, right.

2945
02:29:22,320 --> 02:29:22,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2946
02:29:22,600 --> 02:29:24,320
Speaker 13: And also the people who are doing the Years of

2947
02:29:24,440 --> 02:29:27,520
Speaker 13: Lead are unbelievably cynical about it right, Like they don't

2948
02:29:27,600 --> 02:29:30,680
Speaker 13: they don't believe any of this shit, right, yes, yes,

2949
02:29:30,920 --> 02:29:33,320
Speaker 13: no exactly, we're the Second Amendment guys. Like that stuff

2950
02:29:33,360 --> 02:29:35,800
Speaker 13: is driven a lot by sort of like hardline true

2951
02:29:35,840 --> 02:29:39,120
Speaker 13: believers who aren't trying to sort of like fuel a

2952
02:29:39,160 --> 02:29:41,440
Speaker 13: bunch of mass shooting to push people in towards extreme

2953
02:29:41,520 --> 02:29:43,560
Speaker 13: like increasingly right wing politics. That's sort of like not

2954
02:29:44,640 --> 02:29:46,240
Speaker 13: what they were trying to do, but that's sort of

2955
02:29:46,280 --> 02:29:48,360
Speaker 13: you know, that's the effect of a lot of this stuff.

2956
02:29:48,720 --> 02:29:49,320
Speaker 10: Yeah, it wasn't.

2957
02:29:49,320 --> 02:29:51,400
Speaker 17: It wasn't a conscious effort at all. But that's also

2958
02:29:51,520 --> 02:29:53,560
Speaker 17: not the years of lead paint. That's just like a

2959
02:29:53,640 --> 02:29:57,560
Speaker 17: similar thing, the years of lead paint, which is obviously

2960
02:29:57,720 --> 02:30:00,480
Speaker 17: like which is a joke about. There's this big reactionary

2961
02:30:00,520 --> 02:30:02,960
Speaker 17: myth from like the freakonomics guys. I think that like

2962
02:30:03,040 --> 02:30:05,920
Speaker 17: the rise in crimes like correlated to like the use

2963
02:30:05,959 --> 02:30:08,080
Speaker 17: of lead paint in children's bedrooms, which is.

2964
02:30:08,080 --> 02:30:10,720
Speaker 13: Really funny because for the freakonomics guy that that is

2965
02:30:10,800 --> 02:30:14,920
Speaker 13: a down right left wing theory standard.

2966
02:30:14,560 --> 02:30:17,440
Speaker 10: Yeah exactly, or maybe it was a dude directing it.

2967
02:30:17,440 --> 02:30:20,640
Speaker 17: I don't even remember now anyway, So it became it

2968
02:30:20,680 --> 02:30:23,359
Speaker 17: became a meme to like talk about sort of boomers

2969
02:30:23,400 --> 02:30:26,400
Speaker 17: and generation acts people you know, having the bled paint

2970
02:30:26,480 --> 02:30:29,880
Speaker 17: in their gasoline and in their walls cause all this stuff.

2971
02:30:30,080 --> 02:30:33,520
Speaker 17: Obviously I'm not advocating that kind of like ablest insult

2972
02:30:33,560 --> 02:30:35,480
Speaker 17: when I talk about this, and is a memetic way

2973
02:30:35,480 --> 02:30:37,000
Speaker 17: of making fun of that concept.

2974
02:30:37,160 --> 02:30:40,480
Speaker 10: But all of that to say, they.

2975
02:30:40,440 --> 02:30:43,800
Speaker 17: Have completely drunk the kool aid, right, the fascists, as

2976
02:30:43,840 --> 02:30:45,600
Speaker 17: you're saying, Yah, they knew what they were doing. They

2977
02:30:45,680 --> 02:30:48,199
Speaker 17: knew they were framing the left. They were like making

2978
02:30:48,280 --> 02:30:50,440
Speaker 17: it up. But like a lot of people on the

2979
02:30:50,560 --> 02:30:52,880
Speaker 17: right in Italy, yeah, yeah, in Italy, excuse me, in

2980
02:30:52,879 --> 02:30:55,160
Speaker 17: Italy in the sixties and in the actual years of lead,

2981
02:30:55,400 --> 02:30:59,240
Speaker 17: years of lead paint, you've got people genuinely probably believing

2982
02:30:59,280 --> 02:31:03,240
Speaker 17: that January was Antifah, like people whose friends were there,

2983
02:31:03,879 --> 02:31:06,680
Speaker 17: you know, yeah, like stuff like Q and the other

2984
02:31:06,760 --> 02:31:08,440
Speaker 17: thing that the reason that this is years of lead

2985
02:31:08,480 --> 02:31:11,440
Speaker 17: pain and not the first Trump administration is because during

2986
02:31:11,480 --> 02:31:14,720
Speaker 17: the first Trump administration there was actually pretty pretty well

2987
02:31:14,840 --> 02:31:17,400
Speaker 17: organized on the ground fascist movements and they could they

2988
02:31:17,440 --> 02:31:19,440
Speaker 17: could certainly come back in the US right now.

2989
02:31:19,560 --> 02:31:21,040
Speaker 10: There's no reason they couldn't.

2990
02:31:21,200 --> 02:31:23,800
Speaker 13: Yeah, And it's also worth talking about we'll be covering

2991
02:31:23,879 --> 02:31:26,360
Speaker 13: this on the show, like at some point in the

2992
02:31:26,400 --> 02:31:28,000
Speaker 13: future when we've had time to go through the documents.

2993
02:31:28,040 --> 02:31:31,199
Speaker 13: But there was recently a massive from distributed to Nile Secrets,

2994
02:31:31,320 --> 02:31:35,680
Speaker 13: a massive drop of stuff on the militia movements from

2995
02:31:35,720 --> 02:31:37,600
Speaker 13: a guy who infiltrated it. It's a very good Republic

2996
02:31:37,640 --> 02:31:40,240
Speaker 13: of story talking about the guy that will link in

2997
02:31:40,400 --> 02:31:44,519
Speaker 13: the show notes. So, like, the militia movement has survived,

2998
02:31:44,640 --> 02:31:46,280
Speaker 13: but the kind of stuff that like we saw in

2999
02:31:46,400 --> 02:31:48,600
Speaker 13: like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty twenty.

3000
02:31:48,480 --> 02:31:49,240
Speaker 9: Like is not.

3001
02:31:49,400 --> 02:31:53,360
Speaker 17: Yeah, the Proud Boys Q and on, the folks who

3002
02:31:53,480 --> 02:31:55,520
Speaker 17: made up J six and the folks who made up

3003
02:31:55,600 --> 02:31:58,520
Speaker 17: the alt right, you know, broadly were largely defeated by

3004
02:31:58,520 --> 02:32:01,600
Speaker 17: anti fascists in the street. And then the people who

3005
02:32:01,640 --> 02:32:04,480
Speaker 17: remained QAnon folks who were I think, you know, some

3006
02:32:04,600 --> 02:32:07,600
Speaker 17: of those people were pretty hardcore neo Nazis obviously, but

3007
02:32:07,720 --> 02:32:10,520
Speaker 17: a lot of those folks were confused Internet boomers, right,

3008
02:32:10,959 --> 02:32:14,160
Speaker 17: and like those people mostly got discouraged by the repression.

3009
02:32:14,200 --> 02:32:16,920
Speaker 17: The repression I think successfully sort of put the ends

3010
02:32:16,959 --> 02:32:18,160
Speaker 17: to that organized Q stuff.

3011
02:32:18,560 --> 02:32:18,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3012
02:32:18,800 --> 02:32:20,680
Speaker 13: Well, and also, and I also have talked about on

3013
02:32:20,720 --> 02:32:21,920
Speaker 13: this show The other thing they put an end to

3014
02:32:22,000 --> 02:32:24,240
Speaker 13: that was that the Daily Wire figured out that you

3015
02:32:24,280 --> 02:32:26,400
Speaker 13: could use the literally the exact same structure of Q

3016
02:32:26,520 --> 02:32:28,480
Speaker 13: and on, but they make it about trans people. Yes,

3017
02:32:28,720 --> 02:32:31,040
Speaker 13: and that has been unbelievably effective.

3018
02:32:31,200 --> 02:32:34,600
Speaker 17: Now the strategy as a media strategy has continued, but

3019
02:32:34,760 --> 02:32:38,000
Speaker 17: as an on the ground organizing principle, it's not that functional.

3020
02:32:38,120 --> 02:32:40,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's not, which is very lucky. But what that

3021
02:32:40,920 --> 02:32:42,080
Speaker 10: means is that Trump has come to.

3022
02:32:42,120 --> 02:32:45,600
Speaker 17: Power without a ground movement in the same way that

3023
02:32:45,640 --> 02:32:47,640
Speaker 17: he had in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, Like that was

3024
02:32:47,640 --> 02:32:49,800
Speaker 17: a real movement. His rallies were really well attended. His

3025
02:32:49,959 --> 02:32:52,320
Speaker 17: rallies this election. People left early. You know, it was

3026
02:32:52,440 --> 02:32:54,600
Speaker 17: like it was like going to see a losing team

3027
02:32:54,680 --> 02:32:56,480
Speaker 17: and their last home game of the season. You know,

3028
02:32:56,920 --> 02:32:58,400
Speaker 17: was the vibe at those rallies.

3029
02:32:58,800 --> 02:33:01,320
Speaker 13: Yeah, to do a very specific example, it's like the

3030
02:33:01,520 --> 02:33:04,400
Speaker 13: vibe is like the last games of the Oakland Athletics

3031
02:33:04,440 --> 02:33:06,960
Speaker 13: before they were fucking run out to be for their

3032
02:33:06,959 --> 02:33:09,600
Speaker 13: owner move in the last bag exactly where like they've

3033
02:33:09,640 --> 02:33:13,119
Speaker 13: had an incredibly disappointing season, like deliberately by the owner

3034
02:33:13,160 --> 02:33:15,160
Speaker 13: who decided to make who made a bad team? So

3035
02:33:15,200 --> 02:33:17,440
Speaker 13: people wouldn't fight him, like moving the team to La

3036
02:33:17,879 --> 02:33:19,039
Speaker 13: like it's like that kind of.

3037
02:33:19,160 --> 02:33:21,960
Speaker 17: Hyeah, those are the vibes. And yet of course the Democrats,

3038
02:33:22,000 --> 02:33:26,320
Speaker 17: in their infinite infinite capacities, lost the election. And so

3039
02:33:27,080 --> 02:33:28,600
Speaker 17: what that means, though, is that is that you have

3040
02:33:28,680 --> 02:33:31,600
Speaker 17: this moment where actually the right has as much power

3041
02:33:32,240 --> 02:33:34,920
Speaker 17: in the federal government as it's ever had. You know,

3042
02:33:35,000 --> 02:33:37,720
Speaker 17: the resistance is you know, they you know, they're very

3043
02:33:37,760 --> 02:33:40,640
Speaker 17: proud of legally handing power to the man and ending

3044
02:33:40,720 --> 02:33:41,840
Speaker 17: all of his charges or whatever.

3045
02:33:42,360 --> 02:33:45,080
Speaker 10: But the street movement is disorganized.

3046
02:33:45,240 --> 02:33:48,640
Speaker 17: So you have this gap between the two where there's

3047
02:33:48,720 --> 02:33:52,920
Speaker 17: this really powerful media apparatus Fox News, Truth, Social X,

3048
02:33:53,000 --> 02:33:55,360
Speaker 17: the Everything app you know, all of these like all

3049
02:33:55,400 --> 02:33:57,760
Speaker 17: these places where the fascists you know, and I guess

3050
02:33:57,800 --> 02:34:00,280
Speaker 17: Meta has now just officially announced they're like going to

3051
02:34:00,400 --> 02:34:03,119
Speaker 17: remove all content restrictions or whatever today.

3052
02:34:03,240 --> 02:34:05,240
Speaker 10: I mean, you know when we're recording this. So it's

3053
02:34:05,320 --> 02:34:06,280
Speaker 10: just there's this.

3054
02:34:06,520 --> 02:34:09,800
Speaker 17: Huge spectacular apparatus, but there isn't this on the ground organization.

3055
02:34:09,920 --> 02:34:14,240
Speaker 17: You get people like this Green beret who has been

3056
02:34:14,280 --> 02:34:19,560
Speaker 17: really radicalized, made angry, desperate, and like is blowing not

3057
02:34:19,720 --> 02:34:23,280
Speaker 17: even the Trump hotel up, which would be a nonsensical

3058
02:34:23,320 --> 02:34:25,840
Speaker 17: thing to do, but like literally failing to blow the

3059
02:34:25,879 --> 02:34:29,840
Speaker 17: Trump Hotel up in an attempt to start the race

3060
02:34:29,920 --> 02:34:33,560
Speaker 17: war by getting Democrats hung. So it's still kind of

3061
02:34:33,600 --> 02:34:36,640
Speaker 17: strategy of tension stuff, right, the imagination of as you said,

3062
02:34:36,680 --> 02:34:38,880
Speaker 17: the Turner Diaries or this sort of like you know,

3063
02:34:39,040 --> 02:34:41,760
Speaker 17: the right wing terror networks in the US. You know,

3064
02:34:41,840 --> 02:34:45,039
Speaker 17: there's a reason they're obsessed with attacking electrical power grits.

3065
02:34:45,120 --> 02:34:47,640
Speaker 10: Right, they think of the cause enough chaos, like.

3066
02:34:47,680 --> 02:34:49,880
Speaker 17: You will return everything to the hobbsy and world of

3067
02:34:49,920 --> 02:34:51,800
Speaker 17: all against all, and you'll get a race war and

3068
02:34:51,879 --> 02:34:54,560
Speaker 17: everything will fall apart. Whatever it's you know, it's step one,

3069
02:34:55,000 --> 02:34:57,320
Speaker 17: kill my family, step two, question mark question marks, step three,

3070
02:34:57,480 --> 02:34:58,760
Speaker 17: white supremacist revolution.

3071
02:34:59,160 --> 02:35:01,959
Speaker 10: It's horrifying. I mean, it's horrifying, horrifying idea, But.

3072
02:35:02,040 --> 02:35:05,680
Speaker 17: That's happening in these groups that have really really they

3073
02:35:05,879 --> 02:35:08,800
Speaker 17: believe I think genuinely that, Like I think the right

3074
02:35:08,920 --> 02:35:12,440
Speaker 17: does not understand the difference between like Nancy Pelosi and

3075
02:35:12,480 --> 02:35:15,560
Speaker 17: Asana Shakur, Like they see them both as equally dangerous.

3076
02:35:15,600 --> 02:35:15,680
Speaker 5: Right.

3077
02:35:15,680 --> 02:35:16,600
Speaker 10: They hate Liz Cheney.

3078
02:35:16,760 --> 02:35:18,600
Speaker 17: Yeah, Like in the final days of elections, she was

3079
02:35:18,640 --> 02:35:20,200
Speaker 17: the person they were saying we're gonna go after her,

3080
02:35:20,640 --> 02:35:22,000
Speaker 17: like Liz Cheney like.

3081
02:35:22,160 --> 02:35:26,560
Speaker 13: Really like yeah, it's like like the closest parallel could

3082
02:35:26,560 --> 02:35:27,920
Speaker 13: think of this as like there was a faction of

3083
02:35:27,959 --> 02:35:29,880
Speaker 13: people between the Cold War who thought that like the

3084
02:35:29,959 --> 02:35:33,640
Speaker 13: Sino Soviet split between Russia and China was like faked,

3085
02:35:34,000 --> 02:35:36,640
Speaker 13: and like there were literally guys murdering each other, like

3086
02:35:36,800 --> 02:35:40,280
Speaker 13: Chinese and Russian troops were firing artillery at each other

3087
02:35:40,480 --> 02:35:43,080
Speaker 13: like on the border like in sixty nine, right, like

3088
02:35:43,360 --> 02:35:46,080
Speaker 13: and there were people who were convinced for the entire

3089
02:35:46,280 --> 02:35:50,359
Speaker 13: Cold War, even as like as China is invading Vietnam,

3090
02:35:50,879 --> 02:35:53,760
Speaker 13: are completely convinced that the entire thing is a ploy

3091
02:35:54,320 --> 02:35:56,800
Speaker 13: and that like and that's the secretly like the USSR

3092
02:35:56,920 --> 02:35:59,400
Speaker 13: and the PUERC are working together, and these are not

3093
02:35:59,680 --> 02:36:01,440
Speaker 13: like you know, some random guys that's like, these are

3094
02:36:01,480 --> 02:36:03,039
Speaker 13: these are like the guys that like like the peak

3095
02:36:03,080 --> 02:36:06,160
Speaker 13: of conservative power are absolutely convinced that this is true.

3096
02:36:06,160 --> 02:36:07,520
Speaker 13: And this is I think, yeah, like this this is

3097
02:36:07,520 --> 02:36:09,879
Speaker 13: the kind of thing we're in now. Just like these

3098
02:36:09,879 --> 02:36:12,160
Speaker 13: people are completely cooked. They don't they don't have any

3099
02:36:12,160 --> 02:36:15,080
Speaker 13: analytical building whatsoever. They just they actually have drunk their

3100
02:36:15,120 --> 02:36:15,720
Speaker 13: own kool aid.

3101
02:36:16,000 --> 02:36:18,160
Speaker 10: There was just a scoop. Sorr jop is really quick.

3102
02:36:18,160 --> 02:36:19,560
Speaker 17: There was a scoop right before we got on to

3103
02:36:19,640 --> 02:36:22,680
Speaker 17: record that Heritage Foundation, you know, authors of products Many

3104
02:36:22,760 --> 02:36:23,160
Speaker 17: day five.

3105
02:36:23,360 --> 02:36:25,680
Speaker 10: Their new big plan is to go after Wikipedia.

3106
02:36:26,240 --> 02:36:29,440
Speaker 17: They want to take down Wikipedia, like because because that's

3107
02:36:29,480 --> 02:36:32,160
Speaker 17: a place you can verify facts at right, They've already

3108
02:36:32,160 --> 02:36:34,160
Speaker 17: got the Post, They've got the Times, Like, what are

3109
02:36:34,160 --> 02:36:35,840
Speaker 17: they gonna do? They gotta GoF to Wikipedia. This is

3110
02:36:35,879 --> 02:36:39,039
Speaker 17: the kind of like level of unreality they're trying to build.

3111
02:36:39,600 --> 02:36:41,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, and do you know what else builds a world

3112
02:36:41,720 --> 02:36:43,440
Speaker 5: of unreality and that attempts to sell it to you?

3113
02:36:43,760 --> 02:36:46,840
Speaker 1: Ooh, prox and services. That's a fourth this podcast.

3114
02:36:47,280 --> 02:36:59,800
Speaker 13: Yes we are back. I'm very proud of that one.

3115
02:36:59,840 --> 02:37:01,640
Speaker 13: That that's one of the best ones I've ever done.

3116
02:37:01,680 --> 02:37:03,560
Speaker 13: And I just completely off the top of my head,

3117
02:37:04,480 --> 02:37:06,000
Speaker 13: just came back better than ever.

3118
02:37:07,080 --> 02:37:08,240
Speaker 1: She's never been so bad.

3119
02:37:09,480 --> 02:37:13,480
Speaker 13: So I want to move a little bit from the

3120
02:37:13,720 --> 02:37:16,080
Speaker 13: just what does the state look like? How pilleda these

3121
02:37:16,120 --> 02:37:19,120
Speaker 13: people kind of thing to I want to talk a

3122
02:37:19,160 --> 02:37:21,080
Speaker 13: bit about the sort of macro thing that's going on

3123
02:37:21,200 --> 02:37:23,880
Speaker 13: here because I think part of what's happening here and

3124
02:37:24,080 --> 02:37:26,640
Speaker 13: it's become kind of unfashionable in academic to talk about

3125
02:37:26,680 --> 02:37:31,320
Speaker 13: neoliberalism because everyone got obsessed with like the Chips Act

3126
02:37:31,520 --> 02:37:34,160
Speaker 13: and like the capacity of the state or whatever. But

3127
02:37:34,720 --> 02:37:36,800
Speaker 13: I think, actually, if you want to understand what's going

3128
02:37:36,800 --> 02:37:39,600
Speaker 13: on here, a good place to go is like going

3129
02:37:39,680 --> 02:37:42,680
Speaker 13: back to here David Graver, and he has this line

3130
02:37:42,920 --> 02:37:46,520
Speaker 13: talking about neoliberalism. I think this might God, I should

3131
02:37:46,520 --> 02:37:48,520
Speaker 13: have actually looked up where this quote is from before

3132
02:37:48,560 --> 02:37:51,040
Speaker 13: I quote it. I think it might be from the

3133
02:37:51,120 --> 02:37:54,760
Speaker 13: Shock of Victory. But he has this line about how neoliberalism,

3134
02:37:55,040 --> 02:37:58,119
Speaker 13: when given a choice between making their system actually work

3135
02:37:58,520 --> 02:38:01,880
Speaker 13: and making it seem like alternative and neoliberalism is impossible,

3136
02:38:01,920 --> 02:38:04,959
Speaker 13: it will always choose making me alternatives seem impossible, because

3137
02:38:04,959 --> 02:38:07,560
Speaker 13: that's what neoliberalism is, right. This is, you know, the

3138
02:38:07,680 --> 02:38:11,439
Speaker 13: sort of maxim of Margaret Thatchery is the reason of alternative.

3139
02:38:12,000 --> 02:38:14,160
Speaker 13: It is a system that is designed to destroy all

3140
02:38:14,160 --> 02:38:16,879
Speaker 13: alternatives in the you know, and this includes the possibility

3141
02:38:16,920 --> 02:38:21,040
Speaker 13: of a future and the goal of this And this

3142
02:38:21,160 --> 02:38:23,440
Speaker 13: is I think that the sort of dominant affect of

3143
02:38:23,640 --> 02:38:27,440
Speaker 13: the years of lead paint is this induced helplessness. Yeah,

3144
02:38:27,480 --> 02:38:28,880
Speaker 13: this is some thing thicky I would ask you about

3145
02:38:29,040 --> 02:38:30,840
Speaker 13: the sort of like induced helplessness of this moment.

3146
02:38:32,360 --> 02:38:34,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, I was sort of vibing with what you're saying.

3147
02:38:34,800 --> 02:38:37,040
Speaker 17: But yeah, I think a lot of people online have

3148
02:38:37,160 --> 02:38:39,440
Speaker 17: accepted sort of you know, don't give in an advance, right.

3149
02:38:39,560 --> 02:38:42,480
Speaker 17: But like, I think one big thing that has been

3150
02:38:42,720 --> 02:38:45,480
Speaker 17: part of the Biden like strategy of counter revolution and

3151
02:38:45,520 --> 02:38:47,000
Speaker 17: part of what's been going on over the last four years,

3152
02:38:47,000 --> 02:38:49,200
Speaker 17: but indeed over the last four decades as well as

3153
02:38:49,240 --> 02:38:52,200
Speaker 17: sort of part of neoliberalism, is like the idea that

3154
02:38:52,320 --> 02:38:56,119
Speaker 17: you actually really can't do stuff yourself. You need a market,

3155
02:38:56,560 --> 02:38:59,119
Speaker 17: you need assistance, you need a professional, you need an

3156
02:38:59,160 --> 02:39:03,119
Speaker 17: expert to make a choice, right, and any choice made otherwise,

3157
02:39:03,520 --> 02:39:04,879
Speaker 17: you know, is doomed to failure.

3158
02:39:05,040 --> 02:39:05,160
Speaker 4: Right.

3159
02:39:05,400 --> 02:39:08,560
Speaker 17: And I think part of why Trump feels like to people,

3160
02:39:08,760 --> 02:39:13,080
Speaker 17: some people like he's resisting neoliberalism is because he's like, no, no, no,

3161
02:39:13,200 --> 02:39:15,120
Speaker 17: I don't listen to experts. I don't listen to anyone

3162
02:39:15,200 --> 02:39:17,840
Speaker 17: except my gut. I just do what I want. The

3163
02:39:18,040 --> 02:39:22,200
Speaker 17: incredibly exhausting and miserablest strategy of the previous thirty years

3164
02:39:22,240 --> 02:39:24,600
Speaker 17: of politics, which is you get a ton of expert

3165
02:39:24,720 --> 02:39:27,640
Speaker 17: reviews and then you do a political change that moves

3166
02:39:27,680 --> 02:39:30,960
Speaker 17: things like twelve percent one way, you know, nudge politics

3167
02:39:31,000 --> 02:39:32,520
Speaker 17: as like Barack Obama loved or whatever.

3168
02:39:32,600 --> 02:39:34,800
Speaker 10: Right, So that's sort of like there's there's that sense.

3169
02:39:34,840 --> 02:39:37,039
Speaker 10: But then on the individual sense, it's.

3170
02:39:37,000 --> 02:39:40,920
Speaker 17: Also about distributing the workplaces and breaking down the possibility

3171
02:39:40,959 --> 02:39:43,600
Speaker 17: of labor solidarity, right, because part of what the sixties

3172
02:39:43,760 --> 02:39:45,840
Speaker 17: was and the reason the sixties lasted so long in

3173
02:39:45,879 --> 02:39:48,520
Speaker 17: Italy is because Italy had the biggest factories and had

3174
02:39:48,600 --> 02:39:50,960
Speaker 17: the like the last in Western Europe. They had the

3175
02:39:51,080 --> 02:39:54,440
Speaker 17: last folks still becoming proletarians from peasantry, like coming up

3176
02:39:54,480 --> 02:39:58,000
Speaker 17: from Sicily. So they had this like massive, massive factories

3177
02:39:58,280 --> 02:40:00,880
Speaker 17: that had these like crazy strikes over over again. So

3178
02:40:01,160 --> 02:40:04,200
Speaker 17: the distribution of labor, you know, with globalization, neoliberalism and

3179
02:40:04,200 --> 02:40:07,560
Speaker 17: blah blah blah, breaking down labor workforce. Like, we also

3180
02:40:07,640 --> 02:40:11,360
Speaker 17: are very helpless individually in our workplaces, right, and like

3181
02:40:11,480 --> 02:40:13,640
Speaker 17: we go to the HR department to get help, right.

3182
02:40:13,800 --> 02:40:16,200
Speaker 10: Where we sort of get self care. We like work

3183
02:40:16,240 --> 02:40:16,720
Speaker 10: on ourselves.

3184
02:40:16,760 --> 02:40:19,000
Speaker 17: We get therapy, you know that our boss offers us

3185
02:40:19,080 --> 02:40:22,600
Speaker 17: you know, thoughts and prayers right when when things are hard.

3186
02:40:22,920 --> 02:40:28,200
Speaker 17: But like there's a big attempt to allow people to

3187
02:40:28,720 --> 02:40:31,440
Speaker 17: define themselves sort of the carrot. The carrot of the

3188
02:40:31,480 --> 02:40:33,360
Speaker 17: sixties was like, you know, you get to like have

3189
02:40:33,480 --> 02:40:36,560
Speaker 17: an identity, like, Okay, we won't be officially racist.

3190
02:40:36,640 --> 02:40:39,440
Speaker 10: Yeah, quote unquote, you know, okay, we won't be officially sexist.

3191
02:40:39,480 --> 02:40:41,800
Speaker 17: And they claim, okay, whatever, none of that's true, but

3192
02:40:41,879 --> 02:40:44,440
Speaker 17: they but they sort of sell that, and then they say,

3193
02:40:44,720 --> 02:40:47,680
Speaker 17: but in return, you have to like do all of

3194
02:40:47,760 --> 02:40:48,280
Speaker 17: the self work.

3195
02:40:48,360 --> 02:40:50,360
Speaker 10: You have to be an identity in the marketplace.

3196
02:40:51,080 --> 02:40:54,680
Speaker 17: So basically you get exhausted because like even choosing what

3197
02:40:55,000 --> 02:40:59,160
Speaker 17: shoes to wear becomes like both an identity defining question

3198
02:40:59,640 --> 02:41:04,960
Speaker 17: and an exhausting slog through debt structures and infinite marketplaces, right,

3199
02:41:05,080 --> 02:41:08,280
Speaker 17: like yeah, and so that in you know, spoony world

3200
02:41:08,360 --> 02:41:10,560
Speaker 17: becalled that sort of choice paralysis, right, And I think

3201
02:41:10,720 --> 02:41:13,520
Speaker 17: that's probably accepted as well, that like you have so

3202
02:41:13,680 --> 02:41:16,119
Speaker 17: much choice that you feel absolutely helpless on the face

3203
02:41:16,160 --> 02:41:18,680
Speaker 17: of it. You can't do anything, and so that produces

3204
02:41:18,720 --> 02:41:21,400
Speaker 17: a craving for authoritarianism, for authority, right, That's another thing

3205
02:41:21,440 --> 02:41:22,520
Speaker 17: people want is like.

3206
02:41:22,600 --> 02:41:24,720
Speaker 10: Someone else decide for me. I'm sick of thinking about this.

3207
02:41:25,800 --> 02:41:27,520
Speaker 13: Yeah, And that's I think been one of the most

3208
02:41:27,560 --> 02:41:30,800
Speaker 13: important aspects of everything that's been happening right now is

3209
02:41:30,879 --> 02:41:33,320
Speaker 13: this sort of strategy of exhaustion and this demand for

3210
02:41:33,440 --> 02:41:35,160
Speaker 13: someone else to make choices for you, to free you

3211
02:41:35,240 --> 02:41:38,200
Speaker 13: from this just like this endless nightmare of like trying

3212
02:41:38,240 --> 02:41:40,800
Speaker 13: to figure out which healthcare plan you're supposed to buy

3213
02:41:41,080 --> 02:41:41,680
Speaker 13: and shit.

3214
02:41:41,520 --> 02:41:43,320
Speaker 5: Like that and oh my god, you know, and the

3215
02:41:43,400 --> 02:41:46,360
Speaker 5: right has a bunch of alternatives here right with like

3216
02:41:46,440 --> 02:41:48,760
Speaker 5: this is the fantasy of what treadwives is. It's like

3217
02:41:48,800 --> 02:41:50,400
Speaker 5: what if someone else did your thinking for you.

3218
02:41:50,560 --> 02:41:54,200
Speaker 13: It's also the entire logic behind AI right and betwinding,

3219
02:41:54,240 --> 02:41:56,360
Speaker 13: this sort of AI agent's thing that they're like pushing

3220
02:41:56,440 --> 02:41:58,840
Speaker 13: right now, go listen towards see ES coverage and you'll

3221
02:41:58,920 --> 02:41:59,640
Speaker 13: care much about it.

3222
02:42:00,200 --> 02:42:02,640
Speaker 1: Is like what if someone just like planned your life

3223
02:42:02,720 --> 02:42:02,920
Speaker 1: for you?

3224
02:42:03,040 --> 02:42:03,160
Speaker 4: Right?

3225
02:42:03,640 --> 02:42:04,880
Speaker 13: What if you could talk to a machine and it

3226
02:42:04,879 --> 02:42:06,320
Speaker 13: would plan all your trips and it would tell you

3227
02:42:06,360 --> 02:42:07,760
Speaker 13: what to eat, and we would tell you how to live.

3228
02:42:07,840 --> 02:42:10,600
Speaker 5: And this is you know, this is also the structure

3229
02:42:10,600 --> 02:42:11,400
Speaker 5: of how cults work.

3230
02:42:11,640 --> 02:42:13,039
Speaker 1: Like this is why colts have been able to.

3231
02:42:13,760 --> 02:42:17,040
Speaker 13: Attract people that, like, I think the media conception of

3232
02:42:17,080 --> 02:42:18,560
Speaker 13: cults you wouldn't think would be in them, as why

3233
02:42:18,560 --> 02:42:21,200
Speaker 13: there so many engineers in cults because there's like a

3234
02:42:21,200 --> 02:42:23,120
Speaker 13: once of people who have to make choices constantly, and

3235
02:42:23,480 --> 02:42:25,000
Speaker 13: the cult is like, hey, what if I just like

3236
02:42:25,120 --> 02:42:28,160
Speaker 13: made all of these choices for you? And this is ultimately,

3237
02:42:28,240 --> 02:42:29,600
Speaker 13: you know, we talked about this a little bit before.

3238
02:42:29,640 --> 02:42:32,440
Speaker 13: This is ultimately part of what's going on with like

3239
02:42:32,520 --> 02:42:35,879
Speaker 13: trump Ism, right, because Trump is also to some extent,

3240
02:42:36,000 --> 02:42:37,920
Speaker 13: like if you're in this movement, like you no longer

3241
02:42:38,000 --> 02:42:38,800
Speaker 13: have to choose anymore.

3242
02:42:38,959 --> 02:42:40,720
Speaker 1: You just you know, here is the guy. The guy

3243
02:42:40,840 --> 02:42:41,760
Speaker 1: is going to do the thing for you.

3244
02:42:41,840 --> 02:42:45,360
Speaker 13: This is also if you go back to your original

3245
02:42:45,480 --> 02:42:48,440
Speaker 13: sort of conceptions of fascism, right, it's about the sort

3246
02:42:48,440 --> 02:42:52,080
Speaker 13: of populace delegates their will into the single heroic individual,

3247
02:42:52,120 --> 02:42:54,600
Speaker 13: and the single heroic individual like acts outside of the

3248
02:42:55,240 --> 02:42:56,840
Speaker 13: bonds of the system in order to preserve it and

3249
02:42:56,920 --> 02:42:59,320
Speaker 13: like does all this stuff for you. And I think

3250
02:42:59,360 --> 02:43:03,520
Speaker 13: there's a compa of that with this sort of paralysis

3251
02:43:04,320 --> 02:43:07,960
Speaker 13: and exhaustion, particularly like exhaustion and anxiety also, and this

3252
02:43:08,040 --> 02:43:09,920
Speaker 13: is something that is very well documented that you know,

3253
02:43:10,000 --> 02:43:11,480
Speaker 13: we're are going to get into a foll here. But

3254
02:43:11,920 --> 02:43:13,320
Speaker 13: all of the stuff we've been talking about about the

3255
02:43:13,360 --> 02:43:16,400
Speaker 13: information space, where there's this constant deluge of just nonsense.

3256
02:43:16,440 --> 02:43:20,080
Speaker 13: And that's designed specifically, not even necessarily to convince you

3257
02:43:20,160 --> 02:43:21,880
Speaker 13: that something is true, but to convince you that it's

3258
02:43:21,920 --> 02:43:24,440
Speaker 13: impossible to figure out what is happening and to make

3259
02:43:24,480 --> 02:43:27,360
Speaker 13: you just give up. And when you're refusing to make

3260
02:43:27,520 --> 02:43:30,840
Speaker 13: a choice between like was there a gas attack in

3261
02:43:30,920 --> 02:43:32,920
Speaker 13: Syria or was it like staged by the rebels as

3262
02:43:32,920 --> 02:43:35,600
Speaker 13: the fallse flag, right, you're refusing to make the choice,

3263
02:43:36,160 --> 02:43:38,640
Speaker 13: has the effect of legitimizing both of them and also

3264
02:43:38,760 --> 02:43:40,920
Speaker 13: removes you from sort of the field of play of action.

3265
02:43:41,879 --> 02:43:43,480
Speaker 13: And this has been a really important part of this

3266
02:43:43,600 --> 02:43:45,320
Speaker 13: to sort of demobilize the left. Like it's part of

3267
02:43:45,440 --> 02:43:48,440
Speaker 13: what the sort of Tulsi gabberd Gabit was right, was

3268
02:43:48,480 --> 02:43:49,960
Speaker 13: that you could take a bunch of this sort of

3269
02:43:50,040 --> 02:43:53,560
Speaker 13: like rising nominally anti imperialist thing and you could just

3270
02:43:53,959 --> 02:43:56,640
Speaker 13: do this shit to them. And you know, now, Tulsi

3271
02:43:56,640 --> 02:43:59,920
Speaker 13: Gabbert is like one of the big people in Trump world, right,

3272
02:44:00,080 --> 02:44:02,840
Speaker 13: I think, what's his name? I disrespect him by not

3273
02:44:02,959 --> 02:44:04,800
Speaker 13: remembering his name, but I should. For the podcast, Steve

3274
02:44:04,840 --> 02:44:06,760
Speaker 13: Bannon put it well when he said, just flood the

3275
02:44:06,840 --> 02:44:09,320
Speaker 13: zone with shit, right, it's sort of the strategy. You

3276
02:44:09,520 --> 02:44:13,400
Speaker 13: just release so much terrible information that it doesn't matter.

3277
02:44:13,879 --> 02:44:16,440
Speaker 13: And this is how Trump also like kept ahead of

3278
02:44:16,520 --> 02:44:19,000
Speaker 13: his you know, many scandals, as he would just like say,

3279
02:44:19,040 --> 02:44:21,320
Speaker 13: the next most outrageous thing, and you know, you'd have

3280
02:44:21,400 --> 02:44:23,440
Speaker 13: to commit to responding to one, but he was already

3281
02:44:23,440 --> 02:44:25,000
Speaker 13: at the next thing. And it was just a sort

3282
02:44:25,040 --> 02:44:29,840
Speaker 13: of like amplifying, amplifying wave of like chaos and nonsense

3283
02:44:30,400 --> 02:44:32,720
Speaker 13: that you eventually, yeah, you get bowled over by it,

3284
02:44:32,800 --> 02:44:35,080
Speaker 13: you get exhausted, And I think, you know, you mentioned

3285
02:44:35,120 --> 02:44:38,200
Speaker 13: healthcare markets, and I think, like that's really that's really

3286
02:44:38,360 --> 02:44:40,600
Speaker 13: telling too, because we've just like lived through a pandemic.

3287
02:44:40,879 --> 02:44:43,560
Speaker 13: We're in the midst of a pandemic. Covids is in

3288
02:44:43,640 --> 02:44:45,840
Speaker 13: another wave that like no one has named right now,

3289
02:44:46,320 --> 02:44:50,200
Speaker 13: and no one even mentioned healthcare, let alone the pandemic

3290
02:44:50,360 --> 02:44:52,800
Speaker 13: during the election of twenty twenty four. Yeah, So part

3291
02:44:52,840 --> 02:44:55,240
Speaker 13: of what's been going on too is that there has

3292
02:44:55,320 --> 02:44:57,880
Speaker 13: been this mass push by the Biden administration of the

3293
02:44:57,959 --> 02:45:01,320
Speaker 13: Democrats to make us forget what happened in twenty twenty

3294
02:45:01,920 --> 02:45:03,560
Speaker 13: in terms of the uprising YEA, and then make us

3295
02:45:03,560 --> 02:45:07,439
Speaker 13: forget the pandemic, which is so unpopular and which continuing

3296
02:45:07,560 --> 02:45:11,920
Speaker 13: to actually prevent would have done significant damage to the economy. Right,

3297
02:45:12,000 --> 02:45:13,400
Speaker 13: it was already pretty bad for it, and it would

3298
02:45:13,440 --> 02:45:15,200
Speaker 13: have continued to get worse. So everyone had to be

3299
02:45:15,240 --> 02:45:16,000
Speaker 13: forced back to work.

3300
02:45:16,080 --> 02:45:19,080
Speaker 17: How do you force people back to work who evidently

3301
02:45:19,160 --> 02:45:22,480
Speaker 17: care about each other and their own safety. You lied them,

3302
02:45:22,640 --> 02:45:24,800
Speaker 17: You confuse them about what's actually going on. Right, So

3303
02:45:25,240 --> 02:45:28,360
Speaker 17: there's been this huge priming of the pump for this

3304
02:45:28,560 --> 02:45:31,840
Speaker 17: strategy by Biden and the Democrats, and by our own

3305
02:45:31,920 --> 02:45:34,520
Speaker 17: exhaustion over the pandemic and the fact that we had

3306
02:45:34,520 --> 02:45:35,840
Speaker 17: to go back to work, so we had to get

3307
02:45:35,879 --> 02:45:38,160
Speaker 17: over the cognitive dissonance of that. So all of these

3308
02:45:38,200 --> 02:45:43,280
Speaker 17: factors together have produced a psychic stew culturally in which

3309
02:45:43,520 --> 02:45:47,080
Speaker 17: people are very susceptible to just throwing up their hands

3310
02:45:47,120 --> 02:45:48,760
Speaker 17: and going, I don't know whatever.

3311
02:45:49,720 --> 02:45:49,920
Speaker 14: Yeah.

3312
02:45:50,040 --> 02:45:52,400
Speaker 13: But on the other hand, the strategy of the Years

3313
02:45:52,440 --> 02:45:54,400
Speaker 13: of Lead was a strategy born of strength, right, the

3314
02:45:54,480 --> 02:45:58,160
Speaker 13: years of Lead paint This is not a strategy built

3315
02:45:58,280 --> 02:46:01,400
Speaker 13: by people who haven't credibly solid grasp on power.

3316
02:46:01,680 --> 02:46:01,800
Speaker 6: Right.

3317
02:46:02,440 --> 02:46:05,760
Speaker 13: The actual base that put Trump in power, right, and

3318
02:46:05,840 --> 02:46:08,920
Speaker 13: their actual political base is incredibly brittle. Right, they are

3319
02:46:09,040 --> 02:46:12,960
Speaker 13: about to tank the entire global economy like through by

3320
02:46:13,080 --> 02:46:15,240
Speaker 13: by putting like fifty percent taria of some like every

3321
02:46:15,280 --> 02:46:18,480
Speaker 13: single country in the world. They okay, let's let's be

3322
02:46:18,480 --> 02:46:21,800
Speaker 13: accurate here. That on on on Chinese, Mexican and Canadian goods,

3323
02:46:21,840 --> 02:46:23,760
Speaker 13: which is like, okay, like I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you,

3324
02:46:23,840 --> 02:46:25,480
Speaker 13: as an exercise to the reader to go look up

3325
02:46:25,520 --> 02:46:27,240
Speaker 13: the places that the US imports things from.

3326
02:46:29,240 --> 02:46:31,400
Speaker 5: Right, So, like, you know, this is how you resist.

3327
02:46:33,280 --> 02:46:34,400
Speaker 5: This is this how you resist.

3328
02:46:34,440 --> 02:46:36,600
Speaker 13: Here you're learned helplessness is by going and research and

3329
02:46:36,640 --> 02:46:40,359
Speaker 13: things for yourself. But you know they're about to annihilate

3330
02:46:40,400 --> 02:46:42,480
Speaker 13: the entire economy when the thing that brought into power

3331
02:46:42,600 --> 02:46:46,240
Speaker 13: was fury at rising prices. Right, these fucking arrogant bastards

3332
02:46:46,400 --> 02:46:48,520
Speaker 13: have sown the winds and they are going to reap

3333
02:46:48,560 --> 02:46:51,480
Speaker 13: the fucking whirlwinds. The basis of this fucking of this

3334
02:46:51,760 --> 02:46:54,200
Speaker 13: entire strategy, you know, and I ask you this, like,

3335
02:46:54,280 --> 02:46:57,120
Speaker 13: dear listener, do you think these people can hold three

3336
02:46:57,240 --> 02:47:00,360
Speaker 13: hundred and thirty million people in line by sheer force?

3337
02:47:01,080 --> 02:47:01,800
Speaker 1: No, of course not.

3338
02:47:01,879 --> 02:47:03,520
Speaker 13: There's no fucking way. This is the most heavily armed

3339
02:47:03,520 --> 02:47:05,400
Speaker 13: population that has ever existed in human history.

3340
02:47:05,720 --> 02:47:05,879
Speaker 1: Right.

3341
02:47:07,160 --> 02:47:11,480
Speaker 13: This strategy is a strategy that is built around getting

3342
02:47:11,520 --> 02:47:14,240
Speaker 13: your compliance. Yes, And if they can't get your compliance

3343
02:47:14,320 --> 02:47:16,840
Speaker 13: by you agreeing with them, they're going to attempt to

3344
02:47:16,879 --> 02:47:19,400
Speaker 13: get your compliance by just taking you out of the equation.

3345
02:47:19,640 --> 02:47:19,760
Speaker 6: Right.

3346
02:47:20,200 --> 02:47:22,440
Speaker 13: They need you scared, They need you confused, They need

3347
02:47:22,480 --> 02:47:25,520
Speaker 13: you completely convinced of your own helplessness. They need you

3348
02:47:25,640 --> 02:47:28,280
Speaker 13: to forget that, as the old song says, in your

3349
02:47:28,440 --> 02:47:30,959
Speaker 13: hands is placed to power greater than their hoarded gold,

3350
02:47:31,440 --> 02:47:34,680
Speaker 13: greater than the might of armies magnified one thousandfold. They

3351
02:47:34,720 --> 02:47:36,440
Speaker 13: need you to forget the next line of the song,

3352
02:47:36,920 --> 02:47:39,040
Speaker 13: which goes, we can bring to birth a new world

3353
02:47:39,240 --> 02:47:42,640
Speaker 13: from the ashes of the old when the union makes

3354
02:47:42,720 --> 02:47:46,160
Speaker 13: us strong. And this is the entire fucking thing, right,

3355
02:47:46,520 --> 02:47:48,800
Speaker 13: If these people were actually strong, they would not need

3356
02:47:48,920 --> 02:47:51,680
Speaker 13: an entire strategy that was based around political demobilization.

3357
02:47:52,360 --> 02:47:53,080
Speaker 10: Yeah, exactly.

3358
02:47:53,879 --> 02:47:55,280
Speaker 11: And the thing is right.

3359
02:47:55,600 --> 02:47:58,280
Speaker 13: The thing about this moment is that basically everyone is

3360
02:47:58,320 --> 02:48:03,200
Speaker 13: incredibly disorganized. However, that means that you just literally any

3361
02:48:03,360 --> 02:48:06,600
Speaker 13: random person can just take the things that you know

3362
02:48:06,720 --> 02:48:10,840
Speaker 13: how to do and start organizing. The system is designed

3363
02:48:10,959 --> 02:48:13,000
Speaker 13: to make sure that you don't do that. And guess what,

3364
02:48:13,200 --> 02:48:16,880
Speaker 13: it's not very hard for you to pick up the

3365
02:48:16,959 --> 02:48:18,360
Speaker 13: things that you know how to do for you, to

3366
02:48:18,520 --> 02:48:20,680
Speaker 13: use the relationships in people you know in your life

3367
02:48:20,959 --> 02:48:23,000
Speaker 13: to get together with them and to go do things.

3368
02:48:23,520 --> 02:48:27,039
Speaker 13: And they are fucking terrified of this. Yes, their entire

3369
02:48:27,120 --> 02:48:29,480
Speaker 13: strategies to make sure that you simply do not do this.

3370
02:48:29,720 --> 02:48:32,560
Speaker 13: And every single one of you has the power to

3371
02:48:32,720 --> 02:48:35,240
Speaker 13: do this. And I know this because I also was

3372
02:48:35,320 --> 02:48:37,880
Speaker 13: just some random dipshit Like I was just literally a

3373
02:48:38,000 --> 02:48:41,600
Speaker 13: random college student, right, Like, I was just some asshole,

3374
02:48:41,840 --> 02:48:43,560
Speaker 13: and I just started doing things right. And I got

3375
02:48:43,600 --> 02:48:45,560
Speaker 13: together with my friends and we fucking we made a

3376
02:48:45,680 --> 02:48:47,720
Speaker 13: tendance union and we did anti I stuff, and we

3377
02:48:47,760 --> 02:48:50,120
Speaker 13: did all of this shit. And it wasn't that like

3378
02:48:50,200 --> 02:48:51,840
Speaker 13: any of us are any different than you. We just

3379
02:48:52,200 --> 02:48:54,160
Speaker 13: you know, decided one day we were going to do it.

3380
02:48:54,200 --> 02:48:57,640
Speaker 13: And it happens to return one last time to David Graeber.

3381
02:48:57,959 --> 02:49:00,240
Speaker 13: One of one of his most famous quotes is theultimate

3382
02:49:00,360 --> 02:49:02,199
Speaker 13: hidden truth of this world is that it is something

3383
02:49:02,240 --> 02:49:04,680
Speaker 13: that we make and could just as easily make differently.

3384
02:49:05,640 --> 02:49:08,920
Speaker 13: And everyone who is in power right now is absolutely

3385
02:49:09,040 --> 02:49:11,680
Speaker 13: terrified of the idea of you making this world differently,

3386
02:49:11,840 --> 02:49:12,960
Speaker 13: and together we can do that.

3387
02:49:13,840 --> 02:49:15,200
Speaker 10: Yes, that's exactly right.

3388
02:49:15,280 --> 02:49:17,360
Speaker 17: And another thing that I think is really powerful about

3389
02:49:17,400 --> 02:49:20,800
Speaker 17: getting started in that way is that all of those

3390
02:49:20,920 --> 02:49:25,360
Speaker 17: false choices they become so much less important. And actually,

3391
02:49:25,440 --> 02:49:27,600
Speaker 17: when you have a real goal that you and your

3392
02:49:27,640 --> 02:49:30,240
Speaker 17: friends have made together, that you're building towards, it's actually

3393
02:49:30,240 --> 02:49:32,800
Speaker 17: a lot easier to make choices as to make decisions, yeah,

3394
02:49:32,800 --> 02:49:34,760
Speaker 17: because you would know what you need for the next step,

3395
02:49:34,879 --> 02:49:36,200
Speaker 17: or you'll have an idea of it. You might make

3396
02:49:36,240 --> 02:49:38,800
Speaker 17: a mistake, you might be wrong, but each step along

3397
02:49:38,879 --> 02:49:41,280
Speaker 17: that way, like, it's an easier way to do this

3398
02:49:41,480 --> 02:49:44,480
Speaker 17: and to feel the power of real choices rather than

3399
02:49:44,520 --> 02:49:47,640
Speaker 17: the false choices of like do you want your AI

3400
02:49:48,080 --> 02:49:52,400
Speaker 17: from grock or do you want it from CHATGBT, Right,

3401
02:49:52,840 --> 02:49:55,960
Speaker 17: And obviously like that's a joke, but it's true that

3402
02:49:56,640 --> 02:50:00,760
Speaker 17: they aren't offering us anything anymore. They they have decided,

3403
02:50:00,879 --> 02:50:03,440
Speaker 17: they have decided that what we get is stomped We

3404
02:50:03,520 --> 02:50:05,640
Speaker 17: get stomped on. That's what they've agreed to give us.

3405
02:50:06,000 --> 02:50:09,240
Speaker 17: Is like getting stomped on. Like, okay, that was always

3406
02:50:09,520 --> 02:50:11,640
Speaker 17: what they wanted to give us in the past, but

3407
02:50:12,040 --> 02:50:15,279
Speaker 17: they might learn very very quickly and reaping the whirlwind

3408
02:50:15,640 --> 02:50:19,920
Speaker 17: that the reason that a century of American politicians have

3409
02:50:20,160 --> 02:50:23,440
Speaker 17: tipped their hat to democratic norms and have tried really

3410
02:50:23,520 --> 02:50:27,600
Speaker 17: hard to preserve the niceties of the government. Is because

3411
02:50:28,120 --> 02:50:31,600
Speaker 17: they have a slightly fresher memory of the French Revolution

3412
02:50:31,720 --> 02:50:34,320
Speaker 17: and the guillotines which haunts them, or the Haitian Revolution,

3413
02:50:34,440 --> 02:50:36,760
Speaker 17: which is the real fear lurking behind the fear of

3414
02:50:36,800 --> 02:50:39,800
Speaker 17: the French. Yeah, when the slaves rose up and destroyed

3415
02:50:39,879 --> 02:50:42,520
Speaker 17: the sugar plantation of Heiti and it has been punished

3416
02:50:42,520 --> 02:50:43,000
Speaker 17: ever since.

3417
02:50:43,520 --> 02:50:44,920
Speaker 10: The point being that.

3418
02:50:45,480 --> 02:50:49,720
Speaker 17: These things that they are overwhelming. This flooding the zone

3419
02:50:49,800 --> 02:50:52,320
Speaker 17: was shit, as Mia says, is from a position of

3420
02:50:52,360 --> 02:50:56,240
Speaker 17: weakness because when they were strong, when they were strong,

3421
02:50:56,320 --> 02:50:58,800
Speaker 17: they had Obama was a sign of strength. We can

3422
02:50:58,840 --> 02:51:01,600
Speaker 17: elect a black person, a black man in this racist country,

3423
02:51:01,959 --> 02:51:04,600
Speaker 17: and he can just go on hope and he can

3424
02:51:04,840 --> 02:51:07,480
Speaker 17: actually make very few changes and he'll still be incredibly popular,

3425
02:51:08,040 --> 02:51:11,440
Speaker 17: like even through a huge economic collapse. Right, that was

3426
02:51:11,520 --> 02:51:14,320
Speaker 17: a sort of strong gesture. Trump is a sign of

3427
02:51:14,520 --> 02:51:18,840
Speaker 17: real senescence. That I use the phrase advisably. And there

3428
02:51:18,959 --> 02:51:20,440
Speaker 17: are a lot of holes.

3429
02:51:20,640 --> 02:51:22,520
Speaker 10: And they have drunk the kool aid. The right has

3430
02:51:22,600 --> 02:51:23,320
Speaker 10: drunk the kool aid.

3431
02:51:23,560 --> 02:51:28,080
Speaker 17: They don't know the difference between democrats and anarchists, not really,

3432
02:51:28,360 --> 02:51:31,080
Speaker 17: they genuinely don't really know the difference. Some of them do,

3433
02:51:31,280 --> 02:51:33,880
Speaker 17: their philosophers do, but the main ones on the street

3434
02:51:33,920 --> 02:51:36,080
Speaker 17: have no idea about the difference. That gives us a

3435
02:51:36,160 --> 02:51:38,600
Speaker 17: lot of space to move, That gives us a lot

3436
02:51:38,680 --> 02:51:41,680
Speaker 17: of space to take action, to build things that are

3437
02:51:41,680 --> 02:51:45,560
Speaker 17: invisible to them, and that might be invisible to social media,

3438
02:51:46,040 --> 02:51:49,800
Speaker 17: which is a place built around reinforcing our helplessness. In

3439
02:51:49,879 --> 02:51:52,440
Speaker 17: many ways, the strategies we have to take will be

3440
02:51:52,680 --> 02:51:54,920
Speaker 17: less visible in many ways, I think, than they were

3441
02:51:55,080 --> 02:51:56,640
Speaker 17: in previous times, and they're going to have to be

3442
02:51:56,720 --> 02:52:00,800
Speaker 17: of necessity because maga is basically, you know, it's the

3443
02:52:00,879 --> 02:52:03,000
Speaker 17: eye of sore on and if it lands on you like,

3444
02:52:03,360 --> 02:52:06,360
Speaker 17: you're in trouble. But if it doesn't, like, you can

3445
02:52:06,480 --> 02:52:07,920
Speaker 17: just kind of move, and if you don't, you know,

3446
02:52:08,080 --> 02:52:11,880
Speaker 17: run into any any trouble like, you can get a

3447
02:52:11,920 --> 02:52:13,720
Speaker 17: lot done. I think that's as much as I'll say

3448
02:52:13,720 --> 02:52:16,120
Speaker 17: about that. But there's a lot to do, and there's

3449
02:52:16,160 --> 02:52:17,960
Speaker 17: a lot of movements to make and a lot of

3450
02:52:18,000 --> 02:52:20,520
Speaker 17: building to do that will both give you a sense

3451
02:52:20,560 --> 02:52:23,440
Speaker 17: of power and solve these big problems for you and

3452
02:52:23,520 --> 02:52:26,640
Speaker 17: your community. And if enough people start doing that, then

3453
02:52:26,680 --> 02:52:28,280
Speaker 17: they will take away all their power.

3454
02:52:30,959 --> 02:52:34,120
Speaker 1: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3455
02:52:34,240 --> 02:52:36,080
Speaker 1: from now until the heat death of the universe.

3456
02:52:36,720 --> 02:52:39,160
Speaker 4: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3457
02:52:39,360 --> 02:52:42,400
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3458
02:52:42,520 --> 02:52:46,039
Speaker 4: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3459
02:52:46,160 --> 02:52:49,680
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3460
02:52:49,760 --> 02:52:52,080
Speaker 4: now find sources for It Could Happen Here, listed directly

3461
02:52:52,120 --> 02:52:54,360
Speaker 4: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.