1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg is now on your dashboard with Apple CarPlay and 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Android Auto. It gives you access to every Bloomberg podcast, 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: live audio feeds from Bloomberg Radio, print stories from Bloomberg 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: News in audio form, and the latest headlines of the 5 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: click of a button with Bloomberg News. Now it's free 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: with the latest version of the Bloomberg Business App. That's 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business App. Get it on your phone in 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: the Apple App Store or on Google Play. Just download 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: the app, connect your phone to your car and get started. 10 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: And it's all presented by our sponsor, Interactive Brokers. 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside 12 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: my co host Matt Miller. 13 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,279 Speaker 1: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, 14 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market Moven News. 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 2: I'm the Bloomberg Markets podcast called Apple Podcasts or wherever 16 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com Slash podcast. 17 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: All right, Herman chans in here and he covers the 18 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 2: regional banks from Bloomberg Intelligence. I don't know why he's 19 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: in here. I don't know why we got to talk 20 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,639 Speaker 2: to this guy, but Hermann what's happening with the regional banks, 21 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: because I feel like a huge shoe is about to 22 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 2: drop in terms of I know, commercial real estate loans, 23 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: just higher rates, credit cards, stuff. Give us a sense 24 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 2: of what's happening with the regional banks and is the 25 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 2: FDIC concerned? 26 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 3: Right, So the sentiment for regional banks has been poor 27 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 3: since March and April after the failures of SVB and 28 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 3: Signature First Republic, and shares haven't really rebounded since that time. 29 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: There's been concerns on. 30 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: What you told us was probably gonna happen. Then we're 31 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: not going to rebound because this is a long term earning. 32 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 3: We're facing a longer term earning issue from margins because 33 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,559 Speaker 3: of higher funding costs and higher interest rates. Banks aren't 34 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 3: lending that much because they're focused on building capital because 35 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 3: of tougher capital rules. And then you mentioned of commercial 36 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 3: real estate and office cre a potential shooter drop there 37 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 3: potentially next year with higher loan losses. So the sentiment 38 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 3: has been poor. But also you've seen a bid recently 39 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 3: over the past couple of weeks as inflation pressures seem 40 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 3: to be easing. So the thought of interest rate cuts 41 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 3: are positive for banks. And actually the regionals have rebound 42 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: about fifteen percent since their lows earlier. 43 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 2: And I look at M and T Bank is my proxy. 44 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: I know there's an ETF out there that is probably 45 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: much better, but I just like looking at MT. It's 46 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 2: a baldy regional bank of fourteen percent off of that 47 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: low back in late October. That's right. 48 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 3: So there there is a bit of an inverse relationship 49 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 3: with longer term treasury yields and regional bank stock. So 50 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 3: that's something to look out for. In terms of the 51 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 3: fdi C, the organization is expected to vote on a 52 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 3: special assessment to replenish their depositive Insurance Fund, which was 53 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 3: hit from the bank failures than the year. So the 54 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 3: largest banks in the United States are set to have 55 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 3: a hit in the fourth quarter, and so. 56 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 2: The large like JP Morgan has got to pay for 57 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: the regional banks. Yeah. 58 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: And by the way, was it a was it an 59 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: industry wide problem or were the manager's SVB group just 60 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: to sleep at the wheel. 61 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 3: SVB was a bit asleep at the wheel. I would 62 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 3: concede that. 63 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: Were passed out cold right blood alcohol content like four. 64 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 3: Not really focused on interest rate risk at that Well. 65 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,679 Speaker 1: Why would you focus on interest rate risk as the 66 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: head of a bank, right, who cares about that? And 67 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: now Jamie Diamond has to pay the tab he must 68 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: be very unhappy about it. 69 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, the bank, the surviving banks are paying for the 70 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 3: sins of the guys that had the failed institution. So 71 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 3: it is how the industry works, for better for worse. 72 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: No, really, you think SVB group would bail out JP Morgan. 73 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 3: Well, M and T like, like Paul said, is bailing 74 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 3: out SVB as well. So everybody has to pay their 75 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 3: fair share. 76 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: Full disclosure. Hermann chand loves M and T. We used 77 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: to work there, yes, yes, in investor relations. 78 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, and you are you're a proud mid 79 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 2: market kind of regional bank. 80 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: I mean I bank at the Huntington in Columbus, Ohio. 81 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: A huge fan. 82 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: Look because as a local I've grown up there. Generations 83 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: of my family have banked there, so you know. 84 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 2: Fuller name carry some weight there well. 85 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: Or the benefit is when times are tough, they work 86 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: with us, you know, whereas a bigger bank would say 87 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: we'll see you later, Cinara, right, Huntington will will stick 88 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: with us and work with us, because that's just how 89 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: more localized banks work. 90 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 2: So, but there are four thousand of these regional community 91 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: banks out there. If I put my M and A 92 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 2: hat on there, I feel like that's an industry ripe 93 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 2: for consolidation. That is that fact the case? And if so, 94 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: what would be the catalyst? 95 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, the regionals have talked about M and A being 96 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 3: a factor later on, but not quite over the next 97 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 3: one year time horizon. You have to remember that higher 98 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 3: interest rates are are a factor and when banks do 99 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 3: M A they have to mark to market the target's 100 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 3: balance sheets. So and marking to market means that they 101 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: have to set the current value on both the loans 102 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 3: and assets and de posites, and that can create a 103 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 3: hole in the acquires balance sheets. So they're waiting for 104 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 3: maybe rates to come down a bit so they don't 105 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 3: have this tangible value hits. The second factor is that 106 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 3: regulation is still up in the air. The bidenmin administration 107 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 3: has been a bit reticent for bank m and A 108 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 3: despite some of the pressures earlier in the year. That 109 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 3: seems to be easy, but there's still a lot of 110 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 3: questions on that front. 111 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 2: All right, So the commercial real estate, how big of 112 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: an issue is that for the banks? And when will 113 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: we see it. 114 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: I guess by the way, you know where the phrase 115 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: waiting for the other shoot a drop comes from. No, 116 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: but you told me it's because back in the days 117 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: when New York City was filled with these tenements, the 118 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: walls and the ceilings and floors were so thin that 119 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: you could hear when somebody would come home from work 120 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: and take off his shoes. So you knew when one dropped, 121 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: you were about to hear the next shoe drop. 122 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 2: Okay, very good. 123 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 3: Oh, you learn something new every day. 124 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: I think it's great that it's tied to real estate, 125 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: right because the next shoe to drop is also tied 126 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: to real estate. 127 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. So in terms of commercial real estate, 128 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 3: it creates more headline risk in my view than actual 129 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 3: potential losses. For at least the regail banks that I cover, 130 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 3: we're talking about two to four or five percent of 131 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 3: their total long portfolio is tied the office commercial real estates. 132 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 2: Who owns that stuff. 133 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,280 Speaker 3: Then it's it could be smaller regionals, it could be 134 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 3: you know, securitized at CNBS. 135 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about I'm gonna go back to my Lipstick 136 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: building on Third Avenue and fifty fourth Street here in Manhattan, 137 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 2: right at some point that thing's going to reprice, and 138 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 2: it's going to reprice it up big discount, and the 139 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 2: equity is going to come out of that thing, and 140 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: whoever's got the mortgage against that's gonna have to do something. Yeah, 141 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 2: you're gonna have to just wonder who owns like those 142 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: kinds of commercial real estate mortgage. 143 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: My brother, by the way, it works in the Lipstick building. 144 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: Such a cool building. Yeah, I think it's awesome. 145 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, so hopefully they do there. Oh yeah, but there. 146 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. 147 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: So it is a headline issue, but I do think 148 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 3: it's going to be manageable. But you will INVIBC losses 149 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 3: for the regil banks, and they are already booking reserves 150 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 3: against potential losses expected over the next few years. 151 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 2: All right, So but if I'm looking at M and 152 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: T bank, I mean, so, when do I say the 153 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: earnings risk is behind this industry. I'm looking at the 154 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: next year's numbers and it's not. Then, I mean, they're 155 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: still going down. I guess in twenty twenty five is 156 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 2: when you expect earnings to rebound for this sector. 157 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think at We've written that a note actually 158 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 3: today on net margins potentially stabilizing and for most of 159 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: the banks that I covered, that will happen by the 160 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 3: first quarter of next year. If it's it's even stay 161 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 3: where they are today, so that's positive. You're not getting 162 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 3: any benefit from loan growth, so that's an issue. There's 163 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 3: sticker shock in terms of how interest rates are for 164 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 3: both commercial borrowers and retail customers as well, So that's 165 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 3: going to be a factor for the foreso future. But 166 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 3: in terms of net interest margins, that stabilization will help, 167 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 3: you know, reduce some of the pressures on ANII net 168 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 3: interest income for the regionals. 169 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 2: All right, Man, Herman Chan, you're the man. You cover 170 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: all the regional banks for Bloomberg Intelligence. We appreciate getting 171 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 2: a few minutes of your time coming here in our 172 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio here. Still a little bit of 173 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: headwinds there for the regional banks, but I'm looking at 174 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 2: some of these earnings astems out there. They start turning 175 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 2: really noticeably positive in terms of growth rates in twenty 176 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: twenty five for some of the regional banks. Who knows, 177 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: that could be an interesting area. 178 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 4: You're listening to the Team Cancer Live program Bloomberg Markets 179 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 4: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the 180 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 4: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on 181 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 4: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 182 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: All, let's do a little C suite conversation here. Let's 183 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 2: talk healthcare, biotech, cancer. Helen Sabzavari Joints So she is 184 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 2: a CEO of Presgen. Presogen is a publicly traded company 185 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 2: lists on nasak pg e N is the symbol for 186 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 2: to type into your Bloomberg terminal. Helen, thanks so much 187 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 2: for joining us here. Talk to us about Presagen. What 188 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: do you guys do? Where is your focus right now? 189 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 5: So we have been focusing on a sell and gen 190 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 5: therapy and really bringing it to the next level. I 191 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 5: think what we know that this is going to be 192 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 5: the cutting edge for the next decades, and it is 193 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 5: working for treatment. It's limited in a hemetological oncology setting. 194 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 2: Okay, so we're talking cancer here. 195 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 5: Yes, cancer setting. And however, the problems are basically the 196 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 5: access to the patient, the cost that it's relevant half 197 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 5: a million dollar tag prices for the treatments and you 198 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 5: can only get advce precedent is bringing it to the 199 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 5: next level. What we are doing is manufacturing overnight at 200 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 5: the fraction of the cost done at the hospital, so 201 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 5: you don't need centralized manufacturing. 202 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 2: You make it at the hospital, at. 203 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 5: The hospital and accessible to the patient and they can 204 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 5: receive repeated doses because the cost is so much lower, 205 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 5: and it can be produced overnight, and it's precise to 206 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 5: the patient because thev use their own cells to modify 207 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 5: them overnight and infuse them back to the patient. So 208 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 5: this is why we say we are bringing the therapy 209 00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 5: to the next level. 210 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: Better are my chance is now of surviving if I 211 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: get cancer today, say versus ten or twenty years ago. 212 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 5: Definitely, the field has been coming along in various immunological 213 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 5: therapies and now with the cell engene therapy, so the 214 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 5: chances of survival is much higher. The percentages still is 215 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 5: not up where we need to be. When we look 216 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 5: at our therapies with the VR in twenty thirty percent 217 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 5: response rates, we need to do much better than that. 218 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 5: And this is one of the aspects that for instance, 219 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 5: even the cell engene therapy right now in the field 220 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 5: of cancer for the liquid cancers, they do well in 221 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 5: some of them, but they have not had any effects 222 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 5: on solid tumors. And this is where we come in 223 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 5: as well, because now our technology can address both sides 224 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 5: overnight with the much lower price tag for the patient 225 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 5: and specific to the patient cancer. And I think that's 226 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 5: very important because then you avoid treatments that you know 227 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 5: it will not work. 228 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: I'm going to ask an ignorant question, so pretend I'm 229 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: a complete moron. Are you there? Why haven't we cured 230 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: this disease yet? I mean we've been throwing hundreds of millions. 231 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: I mean, our boss throws billions of dollars at this 232 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: disease for decades, and there are a lot of people 233 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: out there, probably not medical professionals, but people who think, 234 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: you know what, this disease is simply too profitable to 235 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: the healthcare industry to actually cure. 236 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 5: I think the issues with the cancer is multifaceted, and 237 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 5: the mechanism of an escape of your own cells from 238 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 5: your own army, which is your immune cells, is very complex. 239 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 5: And the reason that over the years, you see, we 240 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 5: have moved the bar from chemo to now immunological immunotherapies 241 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 5: and now to your own cells recognizing it. And this 242 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 5: is exactly what we do. We are bringing out your 243 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 5: own cells there and train your army back and we 244 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 5: reinfuse it back to you, so now they can recognize 245 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 5: the enemy from within, which is your tumor self. And 246 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 5: I think that's where the difference is. And what we 247 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 5: have to do is obviously make this much more accessible 248 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 5: to the patient very rapidly, because the patients don't have 249 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 5: enough time and the current cell engine therapies will not 250 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 5: address that, and also treat a much larger patient population, 251 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 5: which is the presage and platform with the ultra cortee 252 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,319 Speaker 5: does that overnight at the hospital. 253 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: So where are you in the development of your company, presaging, 254 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: I mean, are you guys? Do you have your product? 255 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: Are your or your pharmacistical in the marketplace yet? 256 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 5: So what we have is our ultra car is already 257 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 5: in the clinical trials across the United States and we 258 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 5: have been reporting not only the safety but efficacy. For 259 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 5: instance in AML patients that they don't have more than 260 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 5: a few months to leave and we have shown complete 261 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 5: and partial responses in these patients in ovarian cancer as 262 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 5: well as triple negative breast cancers that we are moving, 263 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 5: but also presgen is not just the ultra Car company. 264 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 5: We have other gene therapies modalities that addresses the HPV cancers, 265 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 5: and actually we are really excited because the twenty twenty 266 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 5: four is going to be a breakout for a precegen 267 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 5: as we are bringing the first drug for a recurrent 268 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 5: respiratory papillomatosis, which are the benign tumors in the trachea 269 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 5: and throat of the patients, and the FDA has given 270 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 5: us the accelerated approval and we are moving toward the 271 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 5: commercialization by twenty twenty four, which now changes the paradigm 272 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 5: for our patients and. 273 00:14:58,480 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 6: For our investors. 274 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 2: I mean, are you I'm just going at EAR stock. 275 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 2: It's down thirty three percent this year. I have no 276 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 2: idea why it's got a market cap at two hundred 277 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: fifty million. 278 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: Trained at sixty five dollars a share in twenty fifteen, 279 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: which was admittedly years before you came into the company, 280 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: but it's trading for a dollar now. 281 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 5: It was a different company. And I think what we 282 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 5: have done is since twenty twenty that I have become 283 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 5: the CEO, we have changed the company and focused mainly 284 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 5: on health and in three years we have moved the 285 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 5: platform from a discovery to the scaling up and to 286 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 5: the commercial and we just received not only the prayer 287 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 5: true designations from FDA, but accelerated approval, and the company 288 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 5: by next year is moving toward the first commercialization of 289 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 5: the drug in the HPV field, which, as you can imagine, 290 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 5: it's a huge field in cancer as well as in 291 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 5: infectious diseases. 292 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 2: So we are going to get to a point where 293 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: there will be treatments that will be better than chemo. 294 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 5: Oh, absolutely, we are moving in that direction. And the 295 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 5: cell engine therapy is exactly that. What we are doing 296 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 5: currently at Precegen is really taking your own cells, immune 297 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 5: cells and modifying them and returning them back to you. 298 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 5: So the safety is much more favorable, the toxicity is 299 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 5: much less because it's not chemo that kills across. This 300 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 5: is designed to only kill the tumor cells and nothing else. 301 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 5: And I think this is why Presogen is bringing the 302 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 5: field of cell engine therapy to the next level. 303 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 2: Who else is doing this? 304 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 5: Like? 305 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 2: Who else is doing kind of. 306 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 5: There are a number of companies that they are doing 307 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 5: the classical cartis, but this is. 308 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 2: Exactly cart yeah, CARTI And. 309 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 5: Whether the timeric antigen receptor T cells, these are modified 310 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 5: tea cells. However, the way it's done, it's done in 311 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 5: a classical fashion with the centralized manufacturing which takes almost 312 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 5: between an on to two months. The cost of these 313 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 5: parties are close to four hundred and fifty to half 314 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 5: a million dollars. What we have done is do that 315 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 5: in the completely differentiated way than everyone else, and the 316 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 5: precedent is the only company that has this technology currently 317 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 5: and we do that at the clean room of a 318 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 5: hospital without. 319 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 2: Expert all right, So all I know about biotext is 320 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 2: it's a biner. It either works and a stock goes 321 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 2: up through the roof, or it doesn't and it goes 322 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 2: to zero. What's the what's the mile post for your 323 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 2: company for that? 324 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 5: So in the very near future, in twenty twenty four, 325 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 5: we are moving our first adenoverse Gorilla, a dinniverse platform 326 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 5: in an rr P patient rare disease patient, which FDA 327 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 5: has given us the BLA, and we will be commercializing this. 328 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 5: So that would be the first and that's why I 329 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 5: think we have a great opportunity and very exciting year 330 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 5: in twenty twenty four. And to your point, the stocks 331 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 5: definitely has been under pressure. All the stocks have been 332 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 5: including Presigen. However, we are confident at twenty twenty four 333 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 5: with the new drug that we are bringing forward and 334 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 5: already with accelerated approval from FDA, we are going to 335 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 5: bring value to our patients as well as. 336 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,719 Speaker 2: To our fascinating story. As always, I mean, you know 337 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 2: so many fronts on this fight against cancer. Helen Sabs 338 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 2: the very CEO. Presigen is the company. It is. Pg 339 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 2: e N is the ticker. With some new techniques and 340 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 2: new therapy party car. 341 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: We're learning something. 342 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 5: We're learning something the Noverse platform, which addresses both oncology 343 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 5: in HPV cancers and infectious. 344 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 4: You're listening to the tape Cancer Live program Bloomberg Markets 345 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 4: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune 346 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 4: in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 347 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 4: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 348 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 4: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven. 349 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: Let's bring on our next guest. Brian Stelter, a special 350 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: correspondent for Vanity Fair. You know him from CNN. He 351 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 2: was a longtime correspondent there at CNN. Producer of one 352 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 2: of my favorite TV shows which I just finished, The 353 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 2: Morning Show that's based upon his book. He's got a 354 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 2: Top of the Morning, Top of the Morning. Right, he's 355 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 2: got a new book at this Boys, Guy's Prolific Network 356 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 2: of Lies, The epic saga Fox News, Donald Trump, and 357 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 2: the Battle for American Democracy. Brian Stelter Joints says, Hey, Brian, 358 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 2: thanks so much for taking the time to join us 359 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 2: here kind of what did you learn in your reporting 360 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 2: for your new book? 361 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 4: Here? 362 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 2: This is territory that you're familiar with. 363 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 7: I had to write it because the last time I 364 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 7: wrote a book about Fox, it was mostly anonymously sourced, 365 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 7: and you all know that's how it has to be. 366 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:51,479 Speaker 7: Sometimes some sources insist on confidentiality, they won't go on 367 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 7: the record. But then three years later, when Dominion was 368 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 7: suing Fox News and Dominion was able to obtain all 369 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 7: of those emails and text messages side Fox, I felt 370 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 7: like all of my anonymous sources were now speaking on 371 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 7: the record. Of course, it wasn't their choice, you know, 372 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 7: they were forced onto the record through the legal process, 373 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 7: through the document discovery process. But there were so many 374 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 7: revealing messages, including emails with Ruper Murdoch, that I thought, hey, 375 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 7: someone's got to turn this into a book. 376 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: So what's your take on where Fox News goes now 377 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: I mean post Tucker Carlson, you know, ahead of a 378 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: new election season. They've got a new CEO. There's so 379 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: many changes that have happened in the last I don't 380 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: know year, six months to a year. What happens to Fox? 381 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 7: That's right, we talked after Tucker Carlson was ousted on 382 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 7: the air. Then Ruper Murdoch decided to step aside. Its 383 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 7: actually takes effect this week yesterday at News Corp, Tomorrow 384 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 7: Fox Corps. He becomes chairman emeritus, and he's really elevating 385 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 7: his son, Lachlan, making it even more clear that Lachlan 386 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 7: is the future of these companies. 387 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 8: What's the future of Fox? 388 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 7: Well, in the book, I quote an insider saying Lachlan 389 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 7: just wants to minimize headaches and maximize profits. I think 390 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 7: that's why we see in Attucker Carlson fire, and he 391 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 7: wants to. 392 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 8: Minimize those headaches, and then he wants. 393 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,120 Speaker 7: To try to figure out how to make as much 394 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 7: as he can out of these declining cable businesses while 395 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 7: also investing in two being in Fox Nation and other 396 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 7: streaming ventures. Of course, Fox is one of these subscale 397 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 7: media players. It's not nothing like Netflix or Disney. So 398 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 7: I think, you know, in the future, anything could happen. 399 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 7: I think the most likely scenario is we're going to 400 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 7: see another attempt to recombine News Corp. And Fox Corps, 401 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 7: but maybe not for another year or so. 402 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: So, Brian, what's in some of this What are some 403 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 2: of the new issues that you kind of unfounded or 404 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 2: are founded here in this new book. 405 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, what I get at is Rupert and 406 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 7: Lachlin Murdoch's role within this company and this network, Fox News, 407 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 7: that is the dominant player within the Republican Party. And 408 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 7: what I found is that the times when Rupert and 409 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 7: Lachlan should have stepped in and been more involved, they weren't. 410 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 7: They were laid back. They were kind of letting others 411 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 7: do the dirty work. Remember in Succession when Lucas Mattson 412 00:21:59,080 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 7: says he's. 413 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 8: Hiring a sponge. 414 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 7: Well, I came to realize that's what the Murdocks really 415 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 7: do in real life. You know, No wonder this show 416 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 7: was so heavily reliant on the Murdoch story. They have 417 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 7: their own pain sponges, you know, to clean up the messes. 418 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 7: And so that that I found was interesting when reading 419 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 7: these emails, and text messages that they keep there. You know, 420 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 7: they have they have passible deniability sometimes with some of 421 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 7: these scandals and lawsuits. 422 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 8: And of course these lawsuits are ongoing. 423 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 7: We know Dominion settled, but Smarmatic another voting company is 424 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 7: suing Fox. There are a lot of shareholder lawsuits and 425 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 7: other defamation lawsuits. It is really it's really remarkable that 426 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 7: here we are talking to the end of twenty twenty 427 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 7: three and there's still so much litigation about the last 428 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 7: presidential election. 429 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: What do you think about I mean, we've recently heard 430 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: that Donald Trump was dead set against leaving the White House, 431 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: and you know, more and more is coming to light. 432 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: But it continues to shock me that he has such 433 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: a stronghold on you know, place like Fox or the 434 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,959 Speaker 1: US Congress. How how does that How does he continue 435 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: to have that kind of strength. 436 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 7: I think it has a lot to do with the 437 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 7: rewriting of January sixth, And I discovered this as I 438 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 7: read through all these emails and texts that after January 439 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 7: six Ruper Murdoch said very clearly, We're going to make 440 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 7: Trump a non person. We are pivoting away from Trump. 441 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 7: He was told by his number two that Sean Hannity 442 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 7: is ready to lead the seventy five million Trump voters 443 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 7: away from Trump. So clearly there was an attempt to 444 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 7: make Trump a non person, but it didn't last. It 445 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 7: didn't last. So why didn't it last? Why was Trump 446 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 7: able to get back to center stage? Why was he replatformed? Well, 447 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 7: I argue it's because Peter Really Tyler Carlson rewrote the 448 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 7: story of January sixth to say it wasn't an insurrection, 449 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 7: it wasn't a riot, it was just a tourist visit 450 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 7: gone bad, that it actually wasn't that big a deal. 451 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 7: That hey, maybe the FEDS were involved, Maybe the government 452 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 7: plants were in the crowd ginging up the protesters. Basically, 453 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 7: by presenting a conspiracy theory version of January six I 454 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 7: think it helped to absolve Trump in the minds of 455 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 7: his fans, to absolve Trump in the minds of Fox's viewers, 456 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 7: and thus now here we are, Trump's still the dominant 457 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 7: figure in the primary. 458 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 2: Brian, what role do you expect Fox News to play 459 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 2: in this upcoming presidential elections visa VI the former President Trump, 460 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 2: who presumably is the publican nominee. 461 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 7: Well, look, the first two GOP debates of the season 462 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 7: both went to Fox. Now there's going to be a 463 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 7: few more debates, but without Trump, they're becoming less and 464 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 7: less important. Trump is in a little bit of a 465 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 7: standoff with Fox. He thinks he's more powerful than Fox. 466 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 7: You know, they go back and forth because you know, 467 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 7: they're like, you know, it's like, I don't know if 468 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 7: it's a buddy comedy or it's a horror movie, but 469 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 7: it's a situation where they're they're kind of both battling 470 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 7: each other at all times. But at the end of 471 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 7: the day, what matters most is that the audience comes 472 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 7: home and Trump comes home. 473 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 8: He will come home. 474 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 7: To Fox because they have the same interest. They want 475 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 7: to see Democrats defeated. So even though there's lots to 476 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 7: talk about Trump trashing Rupert Murdach complaining about Fox, I 477 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 7: don't think that'll matter in a general election. I think 478 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 7: what will matter is that Fox still has a stranglehold 479 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 7: on a giant of the right in the United States. 480 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: Does CNN want a piece of that? I mean, they 481 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: did a town hall with Donald Trump. They've made some 482 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: moves that media critics have questioned, as you know, what's 483 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: CNN doing well? 484 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 7: I think right now CENN is trying to report the 485 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 7: truth as loudly and clearly as possible, and I think 486 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 7: they've been excelling with coverage of the war between Israel 487 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 7: and Hamas. I think there was an effort last year, 488 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 7: and I think an understandable effort by David Zaslov and 489 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 7: others to try to figure out how to appeal to everybody, 490 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 7: appeal to. 491 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 8: Conservatives as well as liberals and moderates. 492 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 7: But I think we have to make a distinction between 493 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 7: conservatives and MAGA loyalists. Okay, it's the same distinction Biden 494 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 7: makes in his speeches between Republicans who he's known for 495 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 7: decades versus MAGA Republicans who seem to want to burn 496 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 7: it all down. You're not going to be able, in 497 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 7: my view, to get through to Trump loyalists who have 498 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 7: been told for almost a decade now that the real 499 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 7: news is fake. So if that's the strategy of CNN, 500 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 7: that wasn't going to work. But I don't think that 501 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 7: was the strategy. I think the strategy was, and maybe 502 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 7: to some of sense, is to try to show that 503 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 7: it's real news coverage. 504 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 8: Not the fake news that Trump lied about. 505 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 7: And you know that's the problem for a lot of 506 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 7: these brands, a lot of these media brands they have 507 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 7: they're up against the disinformation campaign. 508 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 8: So I have a lot of sympathy for the CNNs 509 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 8: and the NBCs. 510 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 7: Of the world that are trying to get the word 511 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,479 Speaker 7: out that they are actually just doing the doing their 512 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 7: jobs reporting what's in the world, but they're up against 513 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 7: this kind of this hurricane of noise and lies from 514 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 7: Donald Trump. 515 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: Brian What What? What's happened to Tucker Carlson? Do we 516 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: know kind of how that has turned out yet, because 517 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:32,439 Speaker 1: for a while it seemed like there were a lot 518 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: of maga Republicans that were going to switch away from 519 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: Fox and go to I don't know what he's doing, 520 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: but has he still got a big following. 521 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 7: He doesn't quite know what he's doing yet either, but 522 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 7: he's making a lot of videos on the site formerly 523 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 7: known as Twitter, and he's reportedly raising money and making 524 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 7: ad deals so he can grow that into a real 525 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 7: media company. I think he has big ambitions because he 526 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 7: wants revenge against Fox. He wants to show Fox who's boss. 527 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 7: But right now his platform has diminished, He's not making 528 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 7: as much of an impact he's not as influential. Yes, 529 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 7: he still has a fan base, but it goes to 530 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 7: show once again that the machine is bigger than the parts. 531 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 8: The parts are replaceable. 532 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 7: Fox News is the platform that matters, not the individual 533 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 7: hosts and. 534 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,719 Speaker 8: Gosh for whether you love it or hate it. 535 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 7: That's a credit to Rupert Murdoch for making that investment 536 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 7: almost thirty years ago. 537 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 4: Yep. 538 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 2: And I always say what made the Fox Network was 539 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 2: Bart Homer Simpson. So that's kind of when they find 540 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 2: to turn the corner. Brian Stelter, thank you so much 541 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 2: for joining us. Appreciate getting a few minutes of your time. 542 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 2: Brian Stelter. He's a special correspondent for Vanity Fair, formerly 543 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 2: a correspondent for CNN, and producer of Apple TV's The 544 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 2: Morning Show. 545 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 4: You're listening to the tape Cansur live program Bloomberg Markets 546 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 4: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune 547 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 4: in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 548 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 4: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 549 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 4: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 550 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 2: All right, let's switch gear. Let's get to our next 551 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 2: guest Laura Martin. She's a managing director of senior Media 552 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 2: and Internet analyst at need Him. She's based out in 553 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 2: Los Angeles, right in the heart of Hollywood. Does all 554 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 2: that stuff out there? She joins U via zoom. Hey, Laura, 555 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 2: I want to start with Disney here. You know, Bob 556 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 2: Iiger has been back now, I don't know, a couple 557 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 2: of years, a year and a half something like that. 558 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 2: What do we know about where he wants to take 559 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 2: this company? 560 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:24,879 Speaker 1: You know? 561 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 6: I think on the part we have two companies here now. 562 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 9: One is Parks and it's on a tear at record 563 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 9: high margins, really a big cash flow generator, and he's 564 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 9: going to invest sixty billion dollars in that business so 565 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 9: that that business has proven its growth you know, trajectory, 566 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 9: and he's going to invest in driving that growth longer. 567 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 6: Fine. 568 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 9: I think what Nelson Peltz is arguing about, and I 569 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 9: think where I think the long term media analysts are 570 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 9: on this is I don't think he's actually shown us 571 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 9: that he can grow the now that's streaming sort of 572 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 9: hit mature and it's still never made money. 573 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 6: Can the content business grow, Paul? 574 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 9: And if not, why is he keeping all these people like, 575 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 9: it's okay of a business. He doesn't have a dividend, 576 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 9: so it's okay if business doesn't grow, if you cut 577 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 9: your people and you raise your dividend, that's. 578 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 6: Called a garb stock, that's called a value stock. Okay. 579 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 9: But right now he's investing like the content business's growth 580 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 9: and I think Wall Street is unclear that the content 581 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 9: business is still a growth business. 582 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 2: All right, So I mean it's still mist sacrilege to 583 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 2: ask this question, but you could make the call here, 584 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 2: like if I'm an investment banker, I'm a media m 585 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 2: and a banker. Boy, there's a lot of pieces here. 586 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 2: Do I try to break this company up and see 587 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 2: if I can get better value in the marketplace for 588 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: the pieces? 589 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 6: You know, a lot of. 590 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 9: These CEOs don't want to relinquish actual control of an 591 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 9: asset because that's how they judge their powers. How many 592 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 9: employees have reporting to them. I do like the idea 593 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 9: Paul of spinning off ten percent of Parks, because I 594 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 9: think Parks really is a growth engine. I think you 595 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 9: would get a much higher valuation for Parks if somebody 596 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 9: could buy it alone away from the content assets, where 597 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 9: there are a lot more questions, and in creating that 598 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 9: security but still keeping it for tax consolidation and teach, 599 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 9: you know, keeping control over it, you would get a 600 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 9: higher value for the aggregate Disney shareholder. 601 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: What's going to happen to ESPN? 602 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 9: Good quod Well, lots of speculation here, I do you 603 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 9: know Bob Iger on the call did say he's looking 604 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 9: for people or companies that can enhance his distribution, give 605 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 9: him more content rights and or give the more marketing 606 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 9: like Gravitas, so. 607 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 6: He doesn't need need money. 608 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 9: Yeah, Well, I like the NFL has an idea a 609 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 9: lot or the MBA because like the NBA rights, NFL 610 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 9: has got locked up for a decade, so he doesn't 611 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 9: really need the NFL right now. But I do like 612 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 9: the MBA, which is coming up, and they're saying that 613 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 9: the that the cost of the MBA might go up 614 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 9: by four billion dollars, and Bob Iger has promised us 615 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 9: an extra two billion dollars of cash next year. Well, 616 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 9: if the NBA writes BUTOK, by four billion and he 617 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 9: pays that, he's going to wipe out that promise and 618 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 9: make his free cash full even worse. 619 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 6: So I like that idea as a strategy. 620 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 9: Look NBA will give you a little less cash than 621 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 9: you want, but we'll give you ten percent of ESPN 622 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 9: and we'll sign a ten year deal. 623 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 6: That's actually a better deal for the NBA, if you 624 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 6: ask me. 625 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 2: Interesting. Hey, So, Laura, I went to get your opinion 626 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 2: on somebody. I mean, you're right, we're coming up in 627 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 2: a business. The media moguls were Ted Turner, you know, 628 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 2: Sumner Redstone, Ripper Murdoch. Is David Zaslov the new media 629 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 2: mogul for the kids out there today coming up in 630 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 2: the business? Is he it? Dude? 631 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: Did you read the New York Times this morning? I 632 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: did ripping on Jeff Zucker for having tears in his eyes. Yes, 633 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: after Zucker was like I needed you as a friend. 634 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 2: Yep. 635 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: I mean that guy sounds pretty harsh. Do you want 636 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: a friend like that? 637 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. 638 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: Do you want a boss like that? Do you want 639 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: an employee like that? Would you want to be in 640 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: the same room as a person like that? I mean, 641 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's true. I'm just reading the 642 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: Time story, but you know it's rough. 643 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 2: So Lauren, tell us about Zaslov. 644 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 9: So I will I'm going to answer your question though, 645 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 9: I think the new media mogul is Jeff Bezos, who 646 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 9: now no longer runs Amazon, the guy who started Amazon 647 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 9: Prime is a media mogul. I think it is possible. 648 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 9: It is one of the few streaming services that survives 649 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 9: because it's got Amazon e Commerce, right, and Amazon Music 650 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 9: and Amazon and MGM's library. You know, I think the 651 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 9: new definition of media mogul. It's too small. David Seslov 652 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 9: is too small. The company runs is too small. 653 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: But is Amazon kind of an also ran to Apple 654 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: because Amazon Music? What I use Apple Music? 655 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 2: You know? 656 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: Amazon Prime, Yes, I have it, but Apple TV is 657 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: much sexier. 658 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:45,719 Speaker 2: Right. 659 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: Why Why isn't Apple the big media mogul. 660 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 9: Well, I guess from a media mogul point of view, 661 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 9: I mean somebody who runs around Hollywood, Okay, doesn't just 662 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 9: mean you run a business like there's like literally, when 663 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 9: I think of I do cover Apple. When I think 664 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 9: of them, I think of these, you know, brainiac guys 665 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 9: designing beautiful pieces of hardware, where services is sort of 666 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 9: the add on to keep their hardware selling. 667 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 6: None of them feel like moguls to me. Literally, the 668 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 6: opposite of. 669 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 9: Moguls, like down to earth engineers with beautiful design characteristics. 670 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 6: None of that is about having lunch at Spagos. 671 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Jeff Bezos is ripped. Yeah, he's got a trainer 672 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: coming every day. I mean, I don't know, he looks 673 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: like he does. 674 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 2: So Laura talk to us about Meta. You got you 675 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 2: have been kind of underperformed on the stock. It's just 676 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 2: been ripping. What do you think is going on there 677 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 2: with the stocks? 678 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 5: What? 679 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: He works in good shape too, Yeah, he is. 680 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 2: So what do you think is happening over at Meta? 681 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: And maybe what the street might be missing or maybe 682 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 2: you know what you're seeing. 683 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 6: Yeah, so I think I think near term, he cut 684 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 6: a lot of people. Last year. 685 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 9: He cut twenty five percent of his labor force, which, 686 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 9: as you know, Paul destroys morale for an enterprise. So 687 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 9: he cut twenty five percent of his people, and he 688 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 9: had anniversaried the negative comps member. He said when iOS 689 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 9: changed its privacy policy, when Apple changes privacy policy, he 690 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 9: was going to lose ten billion dollars in revenue. 691 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 6: He did that for a year, So his revenue went 692 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 6: negative for a year. 693 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 9: So he's back to positive revenue growth and acceleratingly positive 694 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 9: revenue growth, and he has twenty five percent fewer employees, 695 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,080 Speaker 9: so right now that stocks on a tear this year 696 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 9: because of those fundamentals. In the near term, our cell 697 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 9: is predecorated on three things. One, he doesn't control his 698 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 9: content or his distribution. His content is us as user 699 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 9: generated content, and they're moving to TikTok, and they're taking 700 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 9: their clients to TikTok, and they add revenues following them 701 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 9: to TikTok. 702 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 6: So the competitive situation in his. 703 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,359 Speaker 9: Core business is really bad, and the regulators are late, 704 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 9: so they think he's a monopolist, so they're going after 705 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 9: him for his market position three years ago. So he 706 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 9: has regulatory headaches that cost a fortune and distract the 707 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 9: whole enterprise. So he's got regulatory hassles of being a 708 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:03,280 Speaker 9: monopolist when early TikTok is shipping away at his base, 709 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 9: and then the metaverse spending is coming back next year. 710 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 9: And now he has a whole new spending category which 711 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 9: is called jenerative AI, which should be a huge revenue generator, 712 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 9: except he's giving away. 713 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 6: His large language model. He's not charging for it. 714 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,879 Speaker 9: So here's another big cost like center called jenerative AI, 715 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 9: and he's making his everything he does there. He's giving 716 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 9: away in an open in an open large language model. 717 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 9: So you know, none of this is good fundamental outlook, 718 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 9: even though this year I'm getting really killed. My rating 719 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 9: is wrong this. 720 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 2: Year, all right, So what what are you? What are 721 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 2: you really spending your time on these days? Is it? 722 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 2: Is it? Apple? Where do you think your client should 723 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 2: be thinking about it for the next one to two years, because, boy, 724 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 2: you take a look at some of the traditional media 725 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 2: companies that you and I grew up with, that's a 726 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 2: tough call right now. 727 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,280 Speaker 9: Yeah, Unfortunately, I think I think all these media companies 728 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 9: have become too small. I mean, when you have somebody 729 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,280 Speaker 9: like Apple generating ninety billion a year and Google meaning 730 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 9: Alphabet generating sixty billion dollars a year of free cash flow, 731 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 9: that's like bigger than the market cap of like a 732 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,240 Speaker 9: bunch of these companies combined. So I think the answer 733 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 9: is the old media companies need to merge into these 734 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,439 Speaker 9: global distribution juggernauts. 735 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 6: They need to get bought by them. The problem is, 736 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 6: you know, Washington, d C. 737 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 9: With Democrats at the head of every agency, it's very 738 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 9: tough to get acquisitions done. So what these media companies 739 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 9: need to be doing is shrinking meaning laying off people, 740 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 9: increasing their dividend, and they've become value plays. 741 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 6: They are no longer growth businesses. 742 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 2: Is there a shakeout here? Is there still maybe consolidation 743 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 2: of media company A media company b getting together last gasp? 744 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think I. 745 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 9: Think it's I think there's a widely almost a consensus 746 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 9: rumor in a sense that Paramount's too small needs to 747 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 9: get bought. It owns CBS, so it cannot be bought 748 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 9: by NBC, which is Comcast. It cannot be bought by ABC, 749 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 9: which is the Walt Disney Company, so it can't be 750 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,240 Speaker 9: bought by Fox, which it was Fox. So really, David 751 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 9: zaslom Or, you know, I guess like Amazon could buy 752 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 9: it or something. But I think there's sort of a 753 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 9: consensus that probably Warner Brothers Discovery buys Paramount because it 754 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,760 Speaker 9: can own it doesn't donate in broadcaster already. 755 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 2: Right, all right, Lauren, thanks so much for taking the time. 756 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 2: I always appreciate getting some of your Timelare Martin. She's 757 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 2: a managing director, Senior Media and Internet Analyst at Needham 758 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 2: and Company. She's been based out on the West Coast 759 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 2: her entire career, so she's kind of right in the 760 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 2: backyard of kind of what's happening out there in the 761 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 2: world of. 762 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcasts. You can 763 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever 764 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter 765 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 1: at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three and not fall Sweeney. 766 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 2: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you 767 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,879 Speaker 2: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio.