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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy podcast. If you are new

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Speaker 1: and don't know what couch Talks is, it is the

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Speaker 1: bonus episode of You Need Therapy that comes out every

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Speaker 1: single Wednesday, where I answer questions that listeners you guys,

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Speaker 1: send to me and you can send those to Catherine

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Speaker 1: at therapy podcast dot com. And before we get into

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Speaker 1: today's question, quick reminder.

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Speaker 2: As always, even.

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Speaker 1: Though we're answering your questions and you are getting not

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Speaker 1: just one but two therapists today, this podcast does not

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Speaker 1: serve as actual therapy or any replacement for actual mental

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Speaker 1: health services or substitute for those. However, it's still allowed

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Speaker 1: to help and we hope that it does. We try

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Speaker 1: to do one question a week and that's what we're

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Speaker 1: gonna do, and I always keep them anonymous. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to worry about your name being out there, or

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Speaker 1: your email address or where you're from or any of that.

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Speaker 1: The only thing that I would caution you guys too,

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Speaker 1: when you're sending in your emails, if there is a

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Speaker 1: lot of personal information in there, I do try to

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Speaker 1: read them just how you write them, so don't put

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Speaker 1: anything in there that you wouldn't want me to read

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Speaker 1: on here. And if you do want to give me background,

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Speaker 1: just make a note to let me know what not

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Speaker 1: to read. I want to say on air. But this

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Speaker 1: isn't on air. This is read on the podcast, on

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Speaker 1: the record, on the record that you wouldn't you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: want on the record. Okay, And you also just heard

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Speaker 1: another person's voice. We have a not one, not two,

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Speaker 1: not three, but fourth. Is this your fourth time?

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Speaker 3: I think so.

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Speaker 1: We have the famous Julia from three Quarters Therapy here,

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Speaker 1: So if you guys are not familiar with who's she is,

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Speaker 1: she is another one of the therapists at the practice

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Speaker 1: that I own, and she was here originally to talk

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Speaker 1: about religious trauma. And then you've been on a couple

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Speaker 1: couch talks, and then you did a recent Monday episode

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Speaker 1: about what it's like to go to therapy for the

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Speaker 1: first time. So highly recommend those ones. You're always great.

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Speaker 1: Julia has the voice of a therapist, you do. You've

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Speaker 1: gotten that multiple times, haven't you.

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Speaker 3: I have gotten that a couple of times, I.

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Speaker 1: Will admit, And that's just so nice, because I don't

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Speaker 1: think I have that voice. I think maybe my voice

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Speaker 1: has changed as I have become a therapist a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but I definitely wasn't born with that voice, and you know,

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Speaker 1: like the soothing calm, like you just want to listen

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Speaker 1: to it.

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Speaker 2: You could do meditations.

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Speaker 3: Wow, thank you. I almost went into business, so I

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Speaker 3: think my voice is better suited for this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. When I think of business, I think of like

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Speaker 2: the boardroom. Yeah, no, which you could do that too, well,

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Speaker 2: thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The reason I asked really to be on this

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Speaker 1: episode is because the question we got one it's a

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Speaker 1: little triggering for me because I'm, uh, this is kind

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Speaker 1: of one of my biggest fears. And we'll talk more

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Speaker 1: about that as we get through the email. But Julia

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Speaker 1: got married in March. March, okay, and so we have

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Speaker 1: not just a therapist, but somebody has also had the

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Speaker 1: experience of going through we're talking about a wedding today,

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Speaker 1: but going through planning a wedding, getting married, and then

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Speaker 1: what it's like after. And while her experience I think

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Speaker 1: is going to be a little different than our listener

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Speaker 1: that wrote this, I just thought it would be nice

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Speaker 1: to have somebody who has been in that position in

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Speaker 1: case there is anything that she would want to add.

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Speaker 1: Or say just about that personally. Now, this email is

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Speaker 1: a little longer than most, so I'm going to read

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Speaker 1: it and hope I can get through this without Actually,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna challenge myself. Usually I have to restart these

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Speaker 1: emails four or five times because I get a little

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Speaker 1: tongue tied.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to challenge myself. I'm going to get through

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Speaker 2: this in one shot.

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Speaker 1: I'm working on my public speaking, so remember attend this

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Speaker 1: is public speaking. Okay, So here is the email to day. Hey,

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Speaker 1: kat I just got married about three weeks ago, and

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Speaker 1: it really was the best day of my life. We

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Speaker 1: went on our honeymoon right away, so we've been transitioning

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Speaker 1: back to in quote normal life over the past week

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Speaker 1: or so. I've been a little surprised with how it's

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Speaker 1: been affecting me. I've been feeling down slash depressed, and

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Speaker 1: it's nothing to do with the marriage itself. My husband

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Speaker 1: is great and super supportive, but I felt a big

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Speaker 1: coming down from the high of being the center of

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Speaker 1: such a big day and our amazing trip afterwards, which

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Speaker 1: I'm this is me talking. I kind of want to

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Speaker 1: know where you went. Back to the email, I find

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Speaker 1: myself just lounging around the house on my off days,

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Speaker 1: not motivated to do anything. At first, I thought it

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Speaker 1: was my body and mind just needing to arrest since

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Speaker 1: the last one to two months were so crazy with

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Speaker 1: the last minute wedding planning. But now I'm starting to

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Speaker 1: think it's more than just needing rest. I find myself

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Speaker 1: spiraling out of control by looking at social media and

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Speaker 1: everyone else's beautiful weddings or other big news in their lives.

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Speaker 1: Instead of just being happy for them, I feel sad

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Speaker 1: because the attention isn't on me, which is crazy to

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Speaker 1: me because I'm never one to want to be the

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Speaker 1: center of attention. Now, my question is, in times like these,

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Speaker 1: how do you know when you should listen to your

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Speaker 1: body slash mind and take a rest, versus when it's

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Speaker 1: something more than that, like depression and something that would

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Speaker 1: require some action to work your way out of, instead

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Speaker 1: of spiraling more into it. Sorry if that's really long

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Speaker 1: and wordy and doesn't make sense, but I just thought

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Speaker 1: maybe the whole overarching idea could spark a conversation and

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Speaker 1: get you super excited to get married.

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Speaker 2: Haha.

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Speaker 1: She wrote that No, really, it's been great. I just

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Speaker 1: want to get back to feeling more myself on a

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Speaker 1: day basis. Okay, So for those of you listening and

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Speaker 1: we're like, good job, Catherine, you got through it perfectly.

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Speaker 1: I messed up like three or four times, but we

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Speaker 1: cut it out, so I'm gonna try again next time,

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Speaker 1: maybe on a shorter email. So when I initially read this,

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Speaker 1: there are two things that stuck out that are different

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Speaker 1: and also can be connected. One is this whole idea

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Speaker 1: that I think a lot of people can relate to

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Speaker 1: and gain something from, is how do I know the

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Speaker 1: difference between just needing to rest and needing a little break.

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Speaker 1: And also when something really is not going right and

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Speaker 1: I need some extra attention, this might border into depression

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Speaker 1: and anxiety that needs maybe help from a therapist or

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Speaker 1: a psychiatrist, versus just feeling sad or scared. Right, So

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Speaker 1: we can feel sad or scared, we can also feel

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Speaker 1: depressed and anxious. Those are not always the same, but

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Speaker 1: they can be connected. And then the other thing I'm

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Speaker 1: hearing is the struggle to find normalcy after writing such

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Speaker 1: a long period of being in this state of relatedness

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Speaker 1: and essentially a high. So it's the come down that's

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Speaker 1: a very normal thing that most people will understand what

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Speaker 1: those two words mean. When we have a really high

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Speaker 1: moment in our lives and we come back down into normalcy.

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Speaker 1: Normalcy now can feel like it's under the line, like

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Speaker 1: going into the darkness, when really that's a baseline for you.

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Speaker 1: But you have been so far away from your baseline

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Speaker 1: that the high starts to feel like the baseline. So

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Speaker 1: I'm going to throw this to you. What do you

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Speaker 1: think as a therapist coming from your therapy brain, what

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Speaker 1: do you see our big markers or indications that somebody

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Speaker 1: is not just sad and there might be some depression

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Speaker 1: that needs attention. And what happens if we are just sad?

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Speaker 1: Do we have to be depressed to need that extra attention?

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Speaker 3: So we know sadness, like you said, can be a

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Speaker 3: part of depression, But depression has a lot more layers

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Speaker 3: to that tube besides just sadness. It can come up

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Speaker 3: as anger and irritability and even like a restlessness, and

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Speaker 3: so depression can take on so many other forms than

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Speaker 3: just sadness. And I'm also thinking about the difference between

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Speaker 3: when we lose something and we're feeling grief or bereavement

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Speaker 3: versus depression ooh, and how we often as therapists are

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Speaker 3: kind of like waiting out that period of bereavement to

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Speaker 3: see or is this just part of the normal grieving

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Speaker 3: that you're feeling, or is this becoming something deeper, like

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Speaker 3: a depression that's going to stick around.

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Speaker 1: I think that is so important to take pause and

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Speaker 1: focus on that. The fact that one getting married is

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Speaker 1: usually such a exciting, fun, happy time for the most part,

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Speaker 1: so we don't think about grief being involved. But there

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Speaker 1: are so many things that you grieve moving into this

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Speaker 1: new life phase. So just you changing your life and

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Speaker 1: your lifestyle and maybe I don't know, maybe you don't

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Speaker 1: live with your partner. There's just so many things that change,

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Speaker 1: and so there is grief in that. But also the

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Speaker 1: planning of a wedding and the events that lead up

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Speaker 1: to a wedding and all of that, you also are

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Speaker 1: a grieving that that's over and the event itself is over.

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Speaker 1: And so bringing grief into this conversation I think is

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Speaker 1: very very important and something that I don't know if

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Speaker 1: people feel allowed or permission to talk about, which is

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Speaker 1: funny because when I made a joke earlier about this

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Speaker 1: is one of my biggest fears.

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Speaker 2: This emails a little triggering to me.

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Speaker 1: I don't mean that seriously, but at the same time

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Speaker 1: seriously something that I know about myself in general and

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Speaker 1: a seven on the enneagram. And I get more joy

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Speaker 1: sometimes looking forward to events than the actual events, because

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Speaker 1: when the events come, I like start the graving process

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Speaker 1: because I'm like, oh, it's going to be over. And

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Speaker 1: I was sharing with Julia earlier that something that was

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Speaker 1: very helpful for me in my periods of singleness and

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Speaker 1: even after. I use some of this when I was

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Speaker 1: dating my current fiance, but I always would tell myself, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I still have to look forward to meeting my future partner.

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Speaker 1: I still have all these things to look forward to,

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Speaker 1: and that was very exciting to me and helped me

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Speaker 1: conjure up some of the hope that I needed to,

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Speaker 1: you know, keep fighting the good fight of dating. And

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Speaker 1: the other part is as I was going to all

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Speaker 1: these weddings too, and I was single and I didn't

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Speaker 1: know it was I still get to look forward to

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Speaker 1: my wedding. My wedding hasn't happened yet, so now I'm

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Speaker 1: sitting in the space of, well, my wedding's getting pretty

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Speaker 1: freaking close.

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Speaker 2: And I can only look.

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Speaker 1: Forward to it for about four more and that there's

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Speaker 1: a loss in that there's a loss of excitement and

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Speaker 1: there's an over like something is going to be over.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm very aware of this. Therefore I can

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Speaker 1: do some things to preemptively take care of myself, and

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Speaker 1: we can't pre grave things. So I know there's going

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Speaker 1: to be some sadness after and that's okay, and that

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Speaker 1: can be very normal. And so I want to offer

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Speaker 1: the listener that wrote this and anybody who's experiencing it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to be your wedding. But even when something

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Speaker 1: is very happy and exciting and you said, like the

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Speaker 1: marriage is great, you love your husband, your honeymoon was

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Speaker 1: so wonderful, you still are sitting in a loss. The

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Speaker 1: loss of that thing probably isn't happening again, right, And

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Speaker 1: it's something that in our culture we start dreaming of

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Speaker 1: a lot of times when we are little, like four,

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Speaker 1: five six, you play like wedding, you know, you try

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Speaker 1: I know that we would try on my mom's like

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Speaker 1: prom dresses and pretend they are they were wedding dresses.

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Speaker 2: And so there is a loss there and that is.

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Speaker 1: Normal, is what I'm saying, and with what you're also saying, Julia,

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Speaker 1: I hear is sometimes we have to sit in the

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Speaker 1: waves of the grief for a period of time before

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Speaker 1: we label something as depression, because grief is not depression

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Speaker 1: and depression is not grief.

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Speaker 2: But they share some of the same attributes.

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Speaker 1: So my other part of the question that I asked was, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well let's say this isn't depression. When do we know

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Speaker 1: or are what are we looking for in terms of

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Speaker 1: deciding if the feelings we are having are worthy of

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Speaker 1: more attention or if I just need to sit in it.

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Speaker 3: So I'm a believer that obviously we need to sit

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Speaker 3: in our feelings and feel them and feel through them,

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Speaker 3: and we don't want to get stuck there. And so

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Speaker 3: I think that it's a balance of, like you said,

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Speaker 3: grieving the loss or feeling whatever it is that you're feeling,

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Speaker 3: and then taking note of what happens next, what do

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Speaker 3: you need to do next? Not rushing out of that,

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Speaker 3: but I'm thinking, what was it about that time in

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Speaker 3: your life, or the wedding, or the feeling of being

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Speaker 3: the center of attention that was really joyful for you,

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Speaker 3: that that gave you so much life outside and you

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Speaker 3: know what's obvious, that's like the happiest time ever. It's

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Speaker 3: meant to be the best day. But what parts of

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Speaker 3: that can you reflect on and take into what your

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Speaker 3: life is now? And is that maybe an area of

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Speaker 3: reflection you can kind of move into after you you

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Speaker 3: are feeling the feelings of the loss of it being

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Speaker 3: over all of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because the listener said that she's usually not the

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Speaker 1: center of attention and doesn't like look to be that.

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Speaker 1: And as I read this email, I thought, well.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that can be true.

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Speaker 1: I believe you when you say that, And could it

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Speaker 1: also be true that maybe you have never experienced something

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Speaker 1: like this before and it actually was nice and it

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Speaker 1: was nice to focus on yourself and it was nice

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Speaker 1: to have attention. It was nice to be able to

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Speaker 1: put so much energy into something. I mean, there could

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Speaker 1: be a million reasons why you liked that experience, and

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Speaker 1: so maybe it's something that pre wedding you didn't know,

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Speaker 1: because we can't know what we don't know, and I

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Speaker 1: can't like know that I love that. I don't know

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Speaker 1: chicken parmesan if I've never had it before, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why that's the food that came to

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Speaker 1: my mind. But I can't know that I love that

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Speaker 1: if I've never had it. And so maybe that's something

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Speaker 1: similar for you, which is I think some of what

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Speaker 1: you're saying, and I believe that feel your fear feelings.

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Speaker 1: You guys have heard me say that one bajillion times,

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Speaker 1: and our feelings are we don't get to decide when

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Speaker 1: those are ready to change, but they are guides and

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Speaker 1: so we have to feel them in order to ask

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Speaker 1: those questions like what is it that I need? And

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Speaker 1: going to therapy does not then take those feelings away either,

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Speaker 1: and so I don't think there has to be a difference. Really,

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Speaker 1: I think this part of why this might be a

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Speaker 1: trick question is I don't know that there is a

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Speaker 1: definitive line of when you should and when you need

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Speaker 1: to just wait it out and you don't really need it,

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Speaker 1: because therapy can always be helpful and it can always

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Speaker 1: give you tools, or even in this conversation, there might

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Speaker 1: be things that you hear, Oh, I wouldn't have thought

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Speaker 1: to ask myself that question, So that is always available.

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Speaker 1: Now there are moments when okay, there needs to be

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Speaker 1: some intervention. Yes, I think that that's true, that we

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Speaker 1: need to take action, and this is necessary, but I

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Speaker 1: don't think we have to be at that moment to

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Speaker 1: take action.

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Speaker 2: So if this is something that it feels.

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Speaker 1: Like something you want to explore, then like I would

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Speaker 1: encourage you to go talk to somebody about this. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to be a therapist. Maybe it is a friend,

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Speaker 1: Maybe it is a therapist. It sounds like you're having

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Speaker 1: some human emotions that are attached to a very human

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Speaker 1: experience and part of that experience that people don't talk

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Speaker 1: about a lot.

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Speaker 3: And just to add some hope here at the end,

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Speaker 3: I think that, like you were saying, Kat, we can

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Speaker 3: have this like scarcy mindset around this is the one

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Speaker 3: wedding maybe that I'll have and the one time I

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Speaker 3: get to like experience this, which could be true, But

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Speaker 3: then that also creates this kind of scarcy mindset of

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Speaker 3: like this is the only time I'll feel this joy,

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Speaker 3: this is the only time I'll have this like elation

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Speaker 3: that I'm feeling. And I don't think that necessarily has

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Speaker 3: to be true. There will be times in your life

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Speaker 3: that will reflect pieces of that joy or that closeness.

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Speaker 3: Maybe you're feeling a family or friends, so to kind

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Speaker 3: of flip it into an abundance mindset, like there's gonna

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Speaker 3: be more of this in my life. This isn't the

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Speaker 3: last time I will feel this way. But let me

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Speaker 3: take stock of what it is that was so important

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Speaker 3: to me about this and made me feel, you know,

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Speaker 3: so joyful in this, so that I can look out

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Speaker 3: for that in the future or move more towards that

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Speaker 3: in the future.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is helpful even for me to hear.

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Speaker 1: Now, if there is a loss, it's important to allot

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Speaker 1: yourself to grieve that, and that grief doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: there isn't anything else in your future. There isn't anything

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Speaker 1: else forward, and our lives don't end after we get married.

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Speaker 1: But I think that also speaks to there's a whole

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Speaker 1: different conversation that I won't go totally down this rabbit hole,

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Speaker 1: but it does speak to our culture. And I feel

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Speaker 1: this deep in my bones, and it's there's been a

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Speaker 1: lot of attempting to undo this, but our culture, just

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Speaker 1: like I said, we start pretending in place marriage and

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Speaker 1: wedding when we're so young. It does kind of shove

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Speaker 1: down our throats that this is the pinnacle. This is

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Speaker 1: just like there's the toxics messaging around there's no love

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Speaker 1: like the love of a child, and like you won't

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Speaker 1: know true love until you have a child. It's very

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Speaker 1: similar in the sense that this is the happiest day

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Speaker 1: of your life. Like that can be true for people,

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Speaker 1: and also that can be really scary if that is

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Speaker 1: true for people. So I think I would encourage you

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Speaker 1: to maybe just challenge. I don't know what the challenge

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Speaker 1: is going to bring, but challenge some of what you're

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Speaker 1: really feeling because it feels true and real to you,

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Speaker 1: and what you're feeling because of the messaging we're told

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Speaker 1: about what our lives should and will be like and

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Speaker 1: what is important and what is not important. Just some

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Speaker 1: food for thought for you anyway, Thanks Joya. Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you would like to find Julia on Instagram, where can

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Speaker 1: these people go?

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Speaker 3: They can find me at the Self Compassion counselor on

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Speaker 3: Instagram and that's the only place you can find me.

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Speaker 3: I don't know how to use TikTok or Facebook is

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Speaker 3: just for you know, my family.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Where you can find the podcast at you need therapy

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Speaker 1: podcasts on Instagram and me at Kat dot Defada and

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Speaker 1: then also you can find.

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Speaker 2: Both of us over at three Quarts Therapy.

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Speaker 1: Those all are interconnected, and also a reminder that if

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Speaker 1: you have a question or feedback or anything you would

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Speaker 1: like to share with us, you can send that to

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Speaker 1: Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com. Katherine is

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Speaker 1: spelled with the K and R y N because my

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Speaker 1: mom wanted my life to be difficult. Also, I really

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Speaker 1: do like the spelling of my name, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I like it because like it's mine and

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Speaker 1: it's like different, or if I really if my name

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Speaker 1: was spelled hey, t R, I N E. What I

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Speaker 1: like that, I don't know. We'll never know, and it's

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Speaker 1: actually not important. So I hope you guys are having

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Speaker 1: the day you need to have and I will be

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Speaker 1: back with you on Monday. Bye.