Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to another edition All the Smoke. That what's good good?
Speaker 1: They had another dollar, let's get it. And we got
Speaker 1: two very special guests today, Oscar Award winners Trevor free Man.
Speaker 1: But man, l Yeah, we're trying something. Man, Let's get
Speaker 1: right to it. Man. Two distance Strangers Struck Gold took
Speaker 1: home the Oscar a few weeks ago. You guys tell
Speaker 1: us how that came about. For me. It was like
Speaker 1: last year, everybody saw the same video what happened to George,
Speaker 1: and you know, we were all in quarantine, and you know,
Speaker 1: we finally had a reason to go back outside. And
Speaker 1: it was just like it experiencing those marches and the
Speaker 1: protests and seeing how the energy around these names and
Speaker 1: these people have been built up in a way that
Speaker 1: I had never experienced it before, or like the whole
Speaker 1: world was protesting, And it was like through internalizing that
Speaker 1: and experiencing every day because we were going out like
Speaker 1: every day, like just wanting to be out there every day.
Speaker 1: And when you when you're kind of internalizing that the
Speaker 1: pain of hearing a different name. Hearing Brianna's story, hearing
Speaker 1: the Moss story, seeing George's story, you feel like you're
Speaker 1: just living in that loop like of emotions every single day.
Speaker 1: You just go through it over and over and over again,
Speaker 1: and in that cycle, you just you go from like anger, sadness, hopelessness,
Speaker 1: and then hopefully back to being hopeful again and trying
Speaker 1: to figure out, you know, how can we stop this
Speaker 1: ship from happening. And when I had that idea of
Speaker 1: like or that that thought of like this feels like
Speaker 1: the worst version of groundhold, it was just like, you know,
Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta do something with that, it just
Speaker 1: kind of stuck with me. And it was that script,
Speaker 1: Like I just went and and and wrote that script.
Speaker 1: I wrote it in like five days, and um, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just well it was one of those things too.
Speaker 1: It was like, my my background is TV writing, so
Speaker 1: you know, you have to write a half hour script
Speaker 1: in a week when you get an assignment on us
Speaker 1: on the show, and nobody was working, nobody was doing nothing,
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, I need something to do anyway,
Speaker 1: Like I can pour this energy into this thing that
Speaker 1: I already know how to do. And you know, just
Speaker 1: see what kind of comes out of it. And then
Speaker 1: I tell Van about it and he read it and
Speaker 1: he was like, you gotta you gotta do this like
Speaker 1: this year, because we were like toying with like do
Speaker 1: we wait, do we like shoot this like next year
Speaker 1: at the time, and now he was so like vands
Speaker 1: are like everybody's like we like the idead comes and
Speaker 1: he comes with the script and I think his TV
Speaker 1: background is like he's used to pitching something and getting
Speaker 1: the feelers on it and see how it goes. And
Speaker 1: I remember met him and Nick Um when we started
Speaker 1: our companies six ft Over. We had already been having
Speaker 1: like meetings about what it was that we wanted to
Speaker 1: go out with, and we're talking about all of these
Speaker 1: great things we're talking about. We're putting together pitch decks. Man,
Speaker 1: We're go and sit down the studios. We have Flyers
Speaker 1: animated show, we got all of this different ship and
Speaker 1: then he goes, you know, I got this idea man,
Speaker 1: it's like a groundhogs Day thing and it's like it
Speaker 1: has to do with police violence. And listen to them
Speaker 1: talking about I'm like, nigga, are you sick? Like that's
Speaker 1: the idea, Like we gotta do that right now, and
Speaker 1: we can't wait. Like if we look at it, just
Speaker 1: the design of everything was that this was gonna be
Speaker 1: a time where there wasn't much content that was coming
Speaker 1: out right, where people felt hamstrung, They felt like they
Speaker 1: couldn't overcome the obstacles that were in a way of
Speaker 1: getting your art out right now, we had everything we needed.
Speaker 1: We had to create a vision. We had all of
Speaker 1: the sort of connections we could get it all done.
Speaker 1: We had great partners with people over at Dirty Robber.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know who they were yet, right, and
Speaker 1: so it was like we get this done now, we
Speaker 1: get a chance to contextual a lot at this moment
Speaker 1: for so many people. And after that it was just
Speaker 1: gas pedal to the end, Like nobody took a breath,
Speaker 1: especially in not tre Vonne in March. How difficult was it?
Speaker 1: I mean, if you guys can answer, but bringing all
Speaker 1: this together during COVID because nobody was shooting, nobody was
Speaker 1: doing nothing. I'm sure the budget was all over the
Speaker 1: place because like I said, there's so much uncertainty during
Speaker 1: that time. It was I mean, keeping it real real,
Speaker 1: it was insane, like everything we were trying to do
Speaker 1: defied logic of how this stuff works, of what's possible
Speaker 1: even in the non pandemic, like all of it, like
Speaker 1: none of it was all just like we're just gonna
Speaker 1: aim for the moon and see like what happens. And
Speaker 1: there was this energy around the project where it just
Speaker 1: wanted to happen. It just wanted to work out. Like
Speaker 1: every wall we hit, we found a way through it.
Speaker 1: And so it was like write the script. In July August,
Speaker 1: we start raising money. We go to KD, we go
Speaker 1: to Mike Connolly, we go uh, like everybody's just like
Speaker 1: ask whoever you know, whoever you need come to me,
Speaker 1: Ask ask whoever you know who will give us any
Speaker 1: amount of money to do this. And what makes that
Speaker 1: even crazier is they weren't even allowing people to shoot,
Speaker 1: Like there was no guarantee that we could do all this,
Speaker 1: raise all the money, get to the point where we
Speaker 1: are ready at the start line and actually be able
Speaker 1: to shoot it. And so we're just doing it with
Speaker 1: the hope that we get to September maybe they might
Speaker 1: allow people to start shooting again. So we get Joey.
Speaker 1: In the beginning of August, Andrew was like the first
Speaker 1: person I told about it before I even wrote it,
Speaker 1: and he's on board. We get the cast. Things are
Speaker 1: everybody's like on board, and we just chase the money,
Speaker 1: chase some money, chase the money while we also chasing
Speaker 1: permits and setting up the bank account. We started with
Speaker 1: zero dollars. We finished production with less than zero dollars.
Speaker 1: And we got to the point where we were when
Speaker 1: we even we were filming, when we were able to film,
Speaker 1: we didn't have enough money to finish all five days
Speaker 1: of filming. We were still chasing money while we were shooting.
Speaker 1: So we got the money for like the last two
Speaker 1: days while we were filming the actual movie. And so
Speaker 1: it was all just like building the plane while you
Speaker 1: fallen out of the sky together and every I hear
Speaker 1: you not man every step of the way, like it
Speaker 1: was just like blessing, blessing, blessing, blessing, blessing. Like the
Speaker 1: permits they take four to six weeks, we got them
Speaker 1: in three days. Like all these things that were supposed
Speaker 1: to be obstacles that was supposed to make this impossible
Speaker 1: to stay, the COVID stuff that that we we raised
Speaker 1: like three almost three thousand dollars, like which would which
Speaker 1: would have been enough to like shoot the movie. And
Speaker 1: we get we finally get to SAG and they're like,
Speaker 1: so you need to have a company, a COVID company
Speaker 1: like approved, like create a plan for you guys, is
Speaker 1: like testing and everything. We find a company. It's literally
Speaker 1: half of the money we raised. So it's like, spend
Speaker 1: the money. Spend half of your money that you already
Speaker 1: have to be able to do the movie, but now
Speaker 1: you don't have enough money to do So we're like, well, ship,
Speaker 1: we gotta do it. We just have to go find
Speaker 1: more money, more money. And so I'm like van Nick,
Speaker 1: everybody to me or everybody just go get five dollars
Speaker 1: from somebody, getting like whatever you can get Nick. But
Speaker 1: the crazy thing about it was that we had so
Speaker 1: many people working on the problem. So many people were cooking,
Speaker 1: like we didn't even know what other people's recipes. Like
Speaker 1: we're at Lawrence's house, Lawrence Been or another producer in
Speaker 1: the movie and me and Trayvon were talking, were talking
Speaker 1: about getting the finance right, and me and Trayvon said,
Speaker 1: then we said, okay, well, you know, to start off,
Speaker 1: if we have to go on our own pockets and
Speaker 1: pay for the movie, then we'll do that. That That
Speaker 1: was me saying that, not thinking that that was actually
Speaker 1: going to happen. Right, God, it will come up within
Speaker 1: some kind of way, but now we had to and
Speaker 1: it was one of the first things to where the
Speaker 1: commitment that I had to make, the first commitment I
Speaker 1: had to make was to myself, was that this is
Speaker 1: something that I'm willing to gamble on. Because you spend
Speaker 1: X amount of dollars on a short, that's money that
Speaker 1: you have to be okay with not getting that back.
Speaker 1: So it was a lesson for me and that the
Speaker 1: idea and the art had to be more than the game.
Speaker 1: And that's a hard step to make. Everybody want to
Speaker 1: make something dope, so you can go out and tour
Speaker 1: on it, get on a jet with it, get a
Speaker 1: deal with it, get let into all of the clubs
Speaker 1: with it. But when you're making it just to get
Speaker 1: it off your chest, that's normally when you hit your mark,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And Samir was instrumental because
Speaker 1: funny story about like Samir. Samir is a guy who
Speaker 1: we added to six ft over a little bit later,
Speaker 1: but he was the one that was doing the Mike
Speaker 1: Conley stuff. And the Rich climbing that Kevin Durant shout
Speaker 1: out Mike, Mike Conley, Kevin Durant, Rich Climbing for being
Speaker 1: a part of the pro for being a part of
Speaker 1: the project. Yeah. And so I talked to Durant, me
Speaker 1: and him DM sometimes right, and so I'm hearing that
Speaker 1: he's gonna be on the project or he's on the project.
Speaker 1: So I shoot him a d M. Go hey, bro here,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be working together. No response. So I'm thinking
Speaker 1: that no response. I'm thinking, well, damn, do we really
Speaker 1: even have that fucking money? Like, are we're gonna be
Speaker 1: stuff to do? We? Is this something Nigga telling Samir
Speaker 1: that he's Kevin Durant and give the brand so so
Speaker 1: and everything. But another thing is stress demands that you
Speaker 1: sit in it, right. So whenever you stressed out about something,
Speaker 1: one one crucial ingredient to stress is concentration. In order
Speaker 1: to be stressed about something, you have to concentrate on
Speaker 1: on what's wrong with you, right, And we all do that.
Speaker 1: We're like our bodies are wired to do that, right.
Speaker 1: We're wired to concentrate on what's going wrong so we
Speaker 1: can fix it. As a pro evolution of the trade.
Speaker 1: In this situation, we just did not have time to
Speaker 1: be stressed out. We didn't have time. I sent the
Speaker 1: list of people that I know in this business, all
Speaker 1: of my pro black warriors that I sent this script
Speaker 1: to and asked to be involved. It's a who's who
Speaker 1: in the industry, and of all of that, none of
Speaker 1: those people came through. And it's not it's not even
Speaker 1: a shot to them, it's just it was something we
Speaker 1: had to do. You aren't gonna get no help. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had one guy, my bad one guy came through
Speaker 1: after a while, shout out to shout out, He's gonna
Speaker 1: be piste off, puffed it, puffed it. Puff Di were like,
Speaker 1: Puff was my big cat. So after after a while,
Speaker 1: Puff came through them. You know, Puff was very instrumental.
Speaker 1: He helped us out. But it was something we had
Speaker 1: to do ourselves and with with the people who want
Speaker 1: to be a part of it. So chuck me because
Speaker 1: I'm I'm in this space. Take me through the process
Speaker 1: you guys created the film. Did you take into any festivals?
Speaker 1: I heard? I heard you guys sold to Netflix eventually, right,
Speaker 1: So take us to the process of once you made it,
Speaker 1: it it premiered. What was that route? So we we
Speaker 1: shot it. We got it. At that point, we got nobody.
Speaker 1: It's just us. It's just a movie we paid for
Speaker 1: and made. And you know, we were courting Netflix, like yo,
Speaker 1: like we got this movie. All of us have Netflix connections.
Speaker 1: We're trying to get them to buy into it and like,
Speaker 1: you know, help us pick up this bill that we
Speaker 1: like are trying to pay. And they kind of was
Speaker 1: like around around, and they just ghosted us. And so
Speaker 1: November comes. You gotta like the only festival we were
Speaker 1: able to even submit to time Wise with Sundance, and
Speaker 1: they rejected us um and so we're like, well, all
Speaker 1: we have left is we can submit for the Oscars.
Speaker 1: And so that was like I think December one or
Speaker 1: a second. We submit, and we are just like kind
Speaker 1: of waiting around, like hoping, you know, because you find
Speaker 1: out if you actually qualified. Once you submit, you don't
Speaker 1: guarantee you qualify. You have to meet all these like yeah,
Speaker 1: and so we qualified. We're like cool. Now we're like okay,
Speaker 1: so we not only do we have negative money, were like, oh,
Speaker 1: like a hundred thousand dollars to the movie or some
Speaker 1: crazy number. And now we need to hire publicists to
Speaker 1: represent the movie so that we can like campaign because
Speaker 1: we submitted for the Oscars. Like cool, all right, So
Speaker 1: we we started like everyone's like Rogers, this dude Rodgers
Speaker 1: and Cowen is supposed to be the best. He wrapped
Speaker 1: Kobe's movie. They want, They wrapped Parasite they want like
Speaker 1: so it's like, go talk to this dude. So we go.
Speaker 1: We find Craig Craig rivy At at Rogers and Cowen
Speaker 1: and he's like yeah, cool, Like yeah, normally we don't
Speaker 1: do stuff this last minute. Like normally we get a
Speaker 1: movie a year in advance and then we campaign throughout
Speaker 1: the year. That's the neural process. Y'all want us to
Speaker 1: pick up the movie literally a month before the OSCAR
Speaker 1: voting starts, and so we're like yeah, we kind of
Speaker 1: like that's what we want to do. And so like, look,
Speaker 1: I can't I can't guarantee y'all like anything will happen,
Speaker 1: but we could try. Also, the bill is gonna be
Speaker 1: like when it's all setting down, like close to three
Speaker 1: thousand dollars or something like that, and at this point
Speaker 1: we're like who the fun Like who okay? Um? And
Speaker 1: so we just like we right, we just like, let's
Speaker 1: let's do it. And luckily for me, I had just
Speaker 1: sold the movie to Apple, so the check came the
Speaker 1: week after this phone call, so I was able to
Speaker 1: just pay as we went whatever we needed up until
Speaker 1: the point that we could find distribution. And so once
Speaker 1: we got nominated UM, Netflix was like, hey remember us,
Speaker 1: and they they paid real they had to make up
Speaker 1: for the fact that they was at the dance before
Speaker 1: it started and then came along and so they we
Speaker 1: don't have no bills no more. To put this point,
Speaker 1: I do want to shout out one one group though,
Speaker 1: I want to shout to people from Tribeca because I
Speaker 1: sent it to Amy Schumer and Amy Schumer this is
Speaker 1: the first time I knew at the movie really was
Speaker 1: going up right, because I sent it to Amy Schuman,
Speaker 1: and the Amy Schuman turned around and she got the
Speaker 1: people from the Tribeca Film Festival involved and there was
Speaker 1: like a conversation with them about them accepting it to
Speaker 1: Tribeca UM. But that's not until August of this year,
Speaker 1: so we would have had to wait the whole cycle.
Speaker 1: So there was some festival love out there. But that's
Speaker 1: like the first time they were so enthusiastic about the movie.
Speaker 1: And I want to shout the people at Tribeca Film Festival.
Speaker 1: That was the first time that I realized, Hey, like
Speaker 1: this product, Yeah this people love this. And it happened
Speaker 1: right after, Like she was like the next day after
Speaker 1: we found out we didn't get into Sunday and I
Speaker 1: was like, yo, they really want them. They wanted it.
Speaker 1: Like I was like, okay, so we're not like crazy,
Speaker 1: So the movie's good, right, Like Amy goes right away,
Speaker 1: she goes crazy, she sends it over. We talked to
Speaker 1: the lake. We just cadn't make it work. But I
Speaker 1: want to make sure that they know that, like we
Speaker 1: appreciate it that even though we went the way that
Speaker 1: we went, we had to wait. Hat tell someth now,
Speaker 1: so Oscar Night comes, walk us through that night. I mean,
Speaker 1: you guys have made it, and I mean, obviously it's
Speaker 1: a dream, but when you're actually there was to pitch
Speaker 1: yourself what was actually like, Yeah, man, I didn't I
Speaker 1: hadn't slept in like four months, where like not like
Speaker 1: I'm not even exaggerating, like I thought I was sleeping
Speaker 1: from January to April and and it wasn't until the
Speaker 1: night after everything was over and we won, and I
Speaker 1: went to bed that night and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: like that's what sleep feels like, because the stress of
Speaker 1: it was fast. Not even was it fast, but every
Speaker 1: day you are spending five hours a day talking about
Speaker 1: police brutality, just really like talking about it every single
Speaker 1: day all day. And then right before nominations, Dante right
Speaker 1: gets killed all of our press. We had finally gotten
Speaker 1: the press to a point where it was about the filmmaking.
Speaker 1: It was about like what we did and like the
Speaker 1: art of it. All after we had beat the like
Speaker 1: talking about the police stuff to death and the that
Speaker 1: happens and it all shifts back and it's like all immediate,
Speaker 1: and it's like every interview wants to talk about Downtay Right,
Speaker 1: everybody wants to talk about the Shovin verdict about to
Speaker 1: come out the next week. And then the verdict comes.
Speaker 1: It comes down the last day of voting, so people
Speaker 1: have one more day to vote. The Shovin verdict comes
Speaker 1: out and it's two hours left to vote, and Hollywood
Speaker 1: Reporter Rights immediately puts out a piece about our movie,
Speaker 1: and like, just like the timing of it all was
Speaker 1: just so crazy, like every part of like what we
Speaker 1: went through. It just the fact that we got nominated
Speaker 1: around the time the trial started. It just kept lining
Speaker 1: up with the whole thing where our movie was the
Speaker 1: most in the moment right now movie in the entire
Speaker 1: every movie, and people were telling us like, yo, y'all,
Speaker 1: movie is more talked about than like the Best Picture
Speaker 1: nominees and it's short, and it was just like we
Speaker 1: just hit this part of the Zeit guys with what
Speaker 1: people were feeling and what was happening in the country
Speaker 1: in a way that just we never could have imagined
Speaker 1: or predicted. And it's crazy because you say timing is
Speaker 1: everything that it is, but I'm convinced of something now
Speaker 1: is that timing is everything, But timing is also divine.
Speaker 1: Things happen at the time that they're supposed to, and
Speaker 1: the best thing that you can do is be prepared
Speaker 1: because when it's your time, you gotta be able to
Speaker 1: meet the moment. We were having a production call about
Speaker 1: whether or not to start this whole thing with premiering
Speaker 1: the movie at Tribeca later on and then going for
Speaker 1: this the awards season and the festival season next year,
Speaker 1: or whether or not to do it now, And I
Speaker 1: remember Lawrence says something, Lawrence Bender, what if I produced
Speaker 1: a shout to Lawrence Bender and Jesse Williams. Lawrence said,
Speaker 1: in order for us to get this done this year,
Speaker 1: I'm just letting you guys know that everything would have
Speaker 1: to go perfectly. And when you hear that, that's daunting,
Speaker 1: because like what goes perfectly? Nothing? You know what I mean,
Speaker 1: he goes Everything would have to go perfectly, and for
Speaker 1: whatever reason it did, I mean it wasn't when you
Speaker 1: look back on it, it didn't go perfectly, but it
Speaker 1: went exactly the way that it was supposed. And so man,
Speaker 1: it's like I never was a part of anything like
Speaker 1: that before Beautiful. Yeah, it felt like magic man. Obviously,
Speaker 1: winning an Oscar is a is a tremendous honor, But
Speaker 1: what is it like to win an Oscar when you're
Speaker 1: telling such an important, timely story, Because I mean, obviously
Speaker 1: you can make a great film and hey, we want
Speaker 1: the Oscar, but it's a great peace like this was
Speaker 1: important and timely as well. So how how how much
Speaker 1: did that add to the excitement of actually winning? That
Speaker 1: was the thing that probably made me the most like
Speaker 1: nervous throughout the whole process, like stressed out throughout the
Speaker 1: whole process because we had made this movie that was
Speaker 1: so not what you normally see in the Academy, not
Speaker 1: the kind of stuff you normally see them embrace. And
Speaker 1: we had been told from the beginning, it's like, yo,
Speaker 1: y'all gotta walk this really really really fine line, because
Speaker 1: this like love it or not, Like this body of
Speaker 1: voters is like older white people, and we we not
Speaker 1: only have this big black team of creatives and producers,
Speaker 1: but we also have a movie about the most hot
Speaker 1: button thing being talked about in the country right now,
Speaker 1: and you know, they can either flat out reject it
Speaker 1: or they can like embrace it. And when we got shortlisted,
Speaker 1: we were like, Okay, that's interesting. And then we get
Speaker 1: nominated and we're like, oh, like that's it, Like we
Speaker 1: might actually be doing something. And then you get to
Speaker 1: the point where it's like, well, is it this going
Speaker 1: to be that thing where it's just like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: nominate you guys, because like, you know, we we like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like we we want people to think we like are
Speaker 1: almost they are kind of there, and so it was
Speaker 1: I was just like, I can't I don't know if
Speaker 1: they're gonna accept this, like I don't know if they
Speaker 1: can have this conversation with us. And so many people
Speaker 1: were telling us like, y'all gonna win, y'all gonna win,
Speaker 1: You're all gonna win, from even back in January, You're
Speaker 1: gonna win. And I just couldn't believe it until it happened, man,
Speaker 1: Like I just it was just hard. It was. It
Speaker 1: was really like stressful, just the way of knowing that
Speaker 1: if this movie wins, what it says to the world,
Speaker 1: If if the the most prestigious award you can win
Speaker 1: for film is given to a movie about that was
Speaker 1: inspired by the death of George Floyd that is about
Speaker 1: police brutality and not like softly about police protection. And
Speaker 1: it's like in your face, like making you confront the
Speaker 1: thing you don't want to talk about, Like that's gonna
Speaker 1: be huge, Like that's gonna be game changing. And so
Speaker 1: it was just the closer you get, you feel the
Speaker 1: weight of like are we gonna actually do it? Like
Speaker 1: is it gonna actually happen? Because it's gonna change all
Speaker 1: of our lives, Like even being nomin it's gonna change
Speaker 1: all our lives. But winning is gonna it's gonna be spectacular,
Speaker 1: like not only are we making history, like no black
Speaker 1: persons ever won this award, but also like you've invited
Speaker 1: all of these very black, very pro black people to
Speaker 1: the conversation in a way that they've never been invited.
Speaker 1: It's important. This is for both people. I'll go with
Speaker 1: Van first. How has your life changed since winning Oscar?
Speaker 1: People from high school and come out through they know you.
Speaker 1: Let me hold something, man, you know you got it.
Speaker 1: You know you know it's like, oh ship man, the
Speaker 1: price going up? Bro, it ain't going up yet. Let
Speaker 1: it ruminate for a second. You know. I think a
Speaker 1: couple of things though. Number one, obviously we have a
Speaker 1: lot more opportunity needs to tell the next story, which
Speaker 1: is very important. It's weird um for me, validation from
Speaker 1: my community and my culture is first, by far is first,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, It's first. So the conversation
Speaker 1: surrounding two distion strangers, the good and the bad. I'm
Speaker 1: willing to sit down and have front, front facing conversations
Speaker 1: with the people from my community, right because their validation
Speaker 1: means something, because it's them that we're trying to make hold.
Speaker 1: And the reality is, you don't want to have to
Speaker 1: make a movie about this, and I want to make
Speaker 1: a distinction about something because there's a huge conversation surrounding
Speaker 1: stories featuring black trauma, right and people talking about stories
Speaker 1: where black people get brutalized. I want people to pay
Speaker 1: attention to the end of our movie. At the end
Speaker 1: of our movie, the last picture of Carter that you see,
Speaker 1: he's alive. He's not only alive, he has agency. He's emboldened.
Speaker 1: He's ready to take on the challenge that exists outside
Speaker 1: of his door. And he's going to be brave about it.
Speaker 1: He's going to be diligent about it, and he's going
Speaker 1: to be persistent about it. And he's telling you into
Speaker 1: the camera that we are going to win, like we're
Speaker 1: going to win. It's not gonna be an easy journey,
Speaker 1: but we're gonna win. And that was purposefully done by Trailon.
Speaker 1: That's purposefully done to say that there's not enough forces
Speaker 1: out there that can make our community sit in trauma
Speaker 1: and perpetuity. We are going to figure this out, or
Speaker 1: everybody else is going to have to figure something out.
Speaker 1: But America as it currently exists, you're looking at a
Speaker 1: generation of people that just refused to live in this
Speaker 1: we're not going to live in this and if everything
Speaker 1: comes apart, then everything comes apart. But it's not gonna
Speaker 1: be like this forever. And so you're making a film
Speaker 1: like that, You're you're specifically telling that story and the
Speaker 1: OSCAR what it means is that you did it to
Speaker 1: a high degree. It means you executed the filmmaking to
Speaker 1: a high degree. It means technically, the film looks great,
Speaker 1: it's written great, it's acting great, it's shot great, and
Speaker 1: you hit your thematic target right perfect perfect. The response
Speaker 1: from your community, it's tells tells you whether or not
Speaker 1: it's good or not good in that particular point. It
Speaker 1: has to come for me from the people who can
Speaker 1: understand the experience and who can parse apart what their
Speaker 1: emotions feel like. If it's good and authentic to them,
Speaker 1: you win. The OSCAR helps you tell the next story,
Speaker 1: and the next story, hopefully is a heartfelt romantic comedy
Speaker 1: with two black people on a cruise drinking my ties
Speaker 1: or high jinks and comedies or black superheroes are all
Speaker 1: of that opening the door for you to be able
Speaker 1: to do what you gotta do, because they know you
Speaker 1: can execute the film in a filmmaking fashion right, I
Speaker 1: mean similar in our space. I mean obviously our basketball backgrounds,
Speaker 1: knowing that this this space we're gonna have to come
Speaker 1: and talking about sports. But month people, we can do that.
Speaker 1: You can step into other spaces. We open that door
Speaker 1: to go whatever direction respective in several different spaces. So
Speaker 1: it's obviously very similar to what you guys have going on.
Speaker 1: Trade on. How how's it changed for you? I mean
Speaker 1: it's it's been drastic, man, Like the amount of like
Speaker 1: people tell you like, oh, if you're win, like things
Speaker 1: are gonna be different. But when you actually experience the
Speaker 1: I've been on in meetings for the last three weeks, bro,
Speaker 1: Like every day it's people like do you want to
Speaker 1: direct this? Do you want to write? Like and not
Speaker 1: even like like big like big names, big budget where
Speaker 1: you're like, damn, like three weeks ago, like like y'all
Speaker 1: didn't even like I wasn't even on your radar for this.
Speaker 1: Now you're like bringing me fifty million dollar movies that
Speaker 1: go like dude, and you're like I could have did
Speaker 1: it three weeks ago too, But like it's that thing.
Speaker 1: It's just the way the business works. Were like you
Speaker 1: have to prove yourself. You gotta prove it. You get
Speaker 1: a road laid out in front of your people are
Speaker 1: going to probably let you work for the rest of
Speaker 1: your life as long as you don't like do something crazy.
Speaker 1: You know. It's funny about that too. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: you see people win an oscar for like some movie
Speaker 1: where they play like a brilliant heroin addict genius saxophone players. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And then after they win
Speaker 1: the oscar, their next movie is a movie with them
Speaker 1: and an animated gorilla. And you think to yourself, like,
Speaker 1: why are they doing that? And the reason is is
Speaker 1: because they come at you with all of these ideas
Speaker 1: and you go, well, ship exactly like. And that's why
Speaker 1: there is a degree once you've once you've got yourself
Speaker 1: into a world, there is a degree of discipline that
Speaker 1: comes along with it. Everything you get the most temptations. Now,
Speaker 1: there was definitely like a couple of days ago, actually
Speaker 1: we got offered. I can't say what movie it was,
Speaker 1: but it was It's a really fucking big movie, and
Speaker 1: I said no to it like pretty quickly because it
Speaker 1: was one of those things where it's like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is the trap, this is the thing where like because
Speaker 1: it was one of those situations where like directors fell
Speaker 1: out they need a replacement and it's shooting like four
Speaker 1: months and like can you And it's like if you, uh,
Speaker 1: if you told me a year ago somebody would offer
Speaker 1: me like something like this and I would say no
Speaker 1: to it. I'm like, hey, no, I'm just saying like
Speaker 1: and now, like like you said, everything is different, you
Speaker 1: gotta like calculate all these yeah where it's like, yes,
Speaker 1: that is a great bag and a great like name projeress,
Speaker 1: but it ain't like it don't fit. It don't fit
Speaker 1: right now, it don't fit with what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1: It don't fit the long term and you can't just
Speaker 1: like if you fall into it, like it could be
Speaker 1: a year or two from now, you ain't like doing
Speaker 1: nothing like but it's could you guys have a vision
Speaker 1: like you said, you're not just fine like you haven't
Speaker 1: you know, you have your plan. Your ship is mapped out,
Speaker 1: and that doesn't fit in the plan no matter how
Speaker 1: big or what the money is. If it doesn't fit,
Speaker 1: it doesn't fit. Who are some of your influences in
Speaker 1: the film business that inspired you? Wow, Well, obviously Spike Lee.
Speaker 1: I think the finest movie, my favorite movie, the greatest
Speaker 1: achievement in black film ever, The greatest, one of the
Speaker 1: greatest achievements in film ever is Mobile of Blues, perfect film.
Speaker 1: Um uh, Spike Lee, Stanley Kuber, Bill Duke. From a
Speaker 1: filmmaking standpoint, obviously you love guys like Stephen pi Spielberg,
Speaker 1: Ryan Coogler. I think to me, it's monster to me.
Speaker 1: I think Ryan Coogler right now is the best director
Speaker 1: work in ease. Just got a genius way of pacing story.
Speaker 1: Like when you think about Black Panther right and you
Speaker 1: know that Ryan Coogler's you know from Oakland, when you
Speaker 1: think about what was done in the filmmaking there to
Speaker 1: take that story with all of those powers, with all
Speaker 1: of that scale, with all of that mythology going back
Speaker 1: to the sixties, and that character and ground that film
Speaker 1: in Oakland and the struggle of worldwide blackness, think about it,
Speaker 1: that struggle that has to do with the black American
Speaker 1: struggle as juxtaposed to an international identification and identity of blackness.
Speaker 1: The fight is really between The take away in that
Speaker 1: movie is the fight is really between us about how
Speaker 1: much we want to help us about our duty and
Speaker 1: responsibility to us, and everything that comes from outside of
Speaker 1: that is just distractions. Like in that movie Claw and
Speaker 1: the CIA and all of these are they're they're just
Speaker 1: distractions to the real which is between different versions and
Speaker 1: visions of blackness. He did that with a superhero movie.
Speaker 1: That's a genius action, right, dude, that's amazing work. But
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a film geek. So the Stanley Kubricks
Speaker 1: of the world, the Martin Score says, He's of the world,
Speaker 1: like all of those guys. So you just have to
Speaker 1: have a while, you have to have a palette, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean of influences, Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: for me, it's like obviously like so many of the
Speaker 1: names he said, but directly like I'm inspired by Barry
Speaker 1: Jenkins so much and the way that he moves the
Speaker 1: camera and the way that he he can, you know,
Speaker 1: just take something. He can he can make anything beautiful
Speaker 1: in a way that I just like, I want to
Speaker 1: just study it all the time. But like Alfonso Corone
Speaker 1: is another big one for me, Like his his ability
Speaker 1: to like bring you into a story and almost make
Speaker 1: you forget that like you're a part of it. Is
Speaker 1: it's something that I admire. Um one car why it's
Speaker 1: just like one of the most beautiful filmmakers, like uh
Speaker 1: in the world. And I try to like look at
Speaker 1: what makes so many of the grades great and then
Speaker 1: I try to figure out, you know, what element of
Speaker 1: myself I connect to in that and like how that
Speaker 1: shapes me as a filmmaker, because that's that thing where
Speaker 1: like like I started in stand up So every stand
Speaker 1: up when you're starting out, you're imitating whoever your favorite
Speaker 1: comic is, Like it's just barn On, Like did you
Speaker 1: just always start out writing like whoever jokes has sound
Speaker 1: like your favorite comic, And over time you do it
Speaker 1: long enough, you start to find yourself in it. You
Speaker 1: start to start to figure out you know who you are,
Speaker 1: what your voice sounds like. And it's why we all
Speaker 1: have influences. Why everybody was trying to like fade away,
Speaker 1: like like Mike can do all this thing until you
Speaker 1: figure out you know what you're game, you yeah, like
Speaker 1: until you find yourself. I find myself doing it as
Speaker 1: a filmmaker and a writer, where you know, I spent
Speaker 1: the early part of my career writing for other people,
Speaker 1: writing for other showrunners, writing for other actors and things
Speaker 1: like that, and then over time, within that you start
Speaker 1: to figure out who you are and what elements of
Speaker 1: this is, like, oh, this is just the show, but
Speaker 1: this part of the script is actually like me, it's
Speaker 1: like what I feel, what I want to do. And
Speaker 1: John Singleton is another one like I just like the way,
Speaker 1: like the way he can tell the story is. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's gonna be missed, It's gonna to the point, John,
Speaker 1: and so you like that's kind of where I found
Speaker 1: my influence and and figuring out, you know, how I
Speaker 1: want to tell stories visually, Yeah, man, John was resting
Speaker 1: peace johns. I got a chance to go to the
Speaker 1: there we there or Nick might have been there, John
Speaker 1: Singleton when he when when they played Poetic Justice the
Speaker 1: year anniversary, NICKI was there right, I went went you right,
Speaker 1: that ship was dope. Man. Just rewatch the film and
Speaker 1: then hear the whole the stories about who was supposed
Speaker 1: to play Wood and all the drama that and then
Speaker 1: it's cold but and fun. Fact when I first started
Speaker 1: thinking of this shows, Van was our third person get
Speaker 1: out of his TMZ contract. But like when I first
Speaker 1: started this show, I was like Jack me, and he
Speaker 1: was like, who's our third person, who's our start person.
Speaker 1: Let's meet Viola. Let's chop it up, Viola, go to Vola,
Speaker 1: have a great time. I'm like, Yo, this is gonna work. Man.
Speaker 1: Sold you needed a year. I needed a year. They
Speaker 1: wouldn't let me out. And you know something about that
Speaker 1: is once again, the show is better without me. It
Speaker 1: is like the show is better without me. The reality
Speaker 1: is that, like everything, people get so caught up in
Speaker 1: the opportunities that they missed and the things that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: You just gotta know that whatever is out there for you, man,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get it. Yeah. Yeah, it would be good
Speaker 1: to have your around because you know, I call you
Speaker 1: in text sometimes and actually opinion on stuff, so that
Speaker 1: the like we have just these random conversations or we're
Speaker 1: just bounce some off the wall and go add it
Speaker 1: for like thirty minutes. Somebody I'm late. I gotta get
Speaker 1: my kids up. Man. I'm a I'm a father and
Speaker 1: an activist and a coach, but not what y'all been
Speaker 1: able to do. And it's this is another thing. That's
Speaker 1: why one of the most mystifying things in the world
Speaker 1: to me is Hayden. I don't understand. I really don't
Speaker 1: get Hayden. I wish I could, like, I wish I
Speaker 1: actually knew a hater so they could explain to me, Hayden,
Speaker 1: because I see the show and automatically the show is
Speaker 1: a hit. Right, Automatically the show is a hit. And
Speaker 1: I'm looking at my guys when change narratives and dynamics
Speaker 1: and perspectives, and I'm so filled up with joy for
Speaker 1: everybody that's winning. I'm trying to figure out what does
Speaker 1: the hate come in? Like, where does the hate come from?
Speaker 1: You know? People people say like, uh, well, I say
Speaker 1: all of the smokers, Like, yeah, man, those are my guys. Actually,
Speaker 1: I was gonna be in this show all you must
Speaker 1: really be mad mad about? Right, Yeah? Like you pathetic idiot,
Speaker 1: what would you be mad about? So no, man, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm I'm happy. And y'all had an idea. Once again,
Speaker 1: y'all had an idea, y'all went out, y'all executed, y'all
Speaker 1: knowe y'all could do it in the show is now
Speaker 1: a staple. It's the saying what I want for myself?
Speaker 1: I want from my brother. Man, what has it been
Speaker 1: like your journey from where you started to you know,
Speaker 1: kind of been known as the black guy at TMZ
Speaker 1: to now where you're at with your production company, red Pill,
Speaker 1: and kind of just the way things have involved. Take
Speaker 1: us on that journey you got you got tired of
Speaker 1: seeing you pay for take Vann. It all took costs, Okay, Okay.
Speaker 1: So here's the thing about TMZ that I don't think
Speaker 1: a lot of people know is I really did not
Speaker 1: know what teams was when I got there. I really
Speaker 1: didn't know, you know, my girl being there watching the
Speaker 1: celebrity news and stuff like that. I never cared about it.
Speaker 1: I never looked down on it, but I never cared
Speaker 1: about it. Right, the thing that I would look at
Speaker 1: the celebrity news shows, I would be like, hey, they're
Speaker 1: covering the same five to ten stories on every show.
Speaker 1: Like me and her would argue because she would going
Speaker 1: there and she would watch the news, and then she
Speaker 1: would watch the other one, the ten and she would watch,
Speaker 1: uh whatever, the extra and all that. I'd be like, Yo,
Speaker 1: they all talking about the same ship. Brad and the
Speaker 1: new girl went out on the date. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean, It's the same story. And so when I
Speaker 1: actually got to tm Z. I was I was unemployed
Speaker 1: and I had just lost my unemployment because I lost
Speaker 1: my unemployment on accident because I did a commercial, but
Speaker 1: I didn't know I was doing a commercial I did.
Speaker 1: I did a razor commercial to where these people told
Speaker 1: me to come out to Van Eyes and use all
Speaker 1: these products and then use a razor. And then when
Speaker 1: I was using a razor, do job jumped out and
Speaker 1: with you ready for pro prograde fusing challenge or whatever
Speaker 1: like that. I'm like, oh, ship and so and so.
Speaker 1: After I do that, I get paid for it. And
Speaker 1: so then I go on the unemployment thing and I
Speaker 1: put down that I did a commercial readjusted my unemployment
Speaker 1: to seventy five a week. I fuck, now, I gotta
Speaker 1: get a job. I can't. The government's not gonna pay
Speaker 1: for me to pay play pick up basketball. First job
Speaker 1: is teensy tour guy tour gud okay. That's around the city, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: around the city. So I was thirty one, and I'm thinking, man,
Speaker 1: all of these great big dreams I had and I'm
Speaker 1: a tour guide at thirty one. But I did it
Speaker 1: because I go back and I asked her about it,
Speaker 1: and she says, yeah, yeah, yeah, take it. You should
Speaker 1: take it. She's like, you're gonna be on the television show.
Speaker 1: But once again, I didn't know what the show was that.
Speaker 1: I thought it was just like he or anything else.
Speaker 1: I didn't understand controversy. I didn't get the selacious nature
Speaker 1: of the show or anything like that. Also didn't get
Speaker 1: the culture problems that existed there um until a little
Speaker 1: while after I was like a television sort of mainstay.
Speaker 1: I remember I was on TMZ a lot, and I've
Speaker 1: said this before, and they did a video there. There
Speaker 1: was a video where they were talking about different rappers
Speaker 1: and they put up a picture of whis Khalifa and
Speaker 1: under that it said little by Wow. I remember things
Speaker 1: to myself. All Right, people make mistakes. But one of
Speaker 1: these niggas is six ft five and the other one
Speaker 1: of them is five nine five. They look completely different. Now,
Speaker 1: we are the celebrity experts, like, we're the people that
Speaker 1: are supposed to know the difference. We're the celebrity experts, right,
Speaker 1: We're the people that are supposed to know. So there's
Speaker 1: something in there that's either unrepresented or not being represented.
Speaker 1: So I felt it, uh, my responsibility if I was
Speaker 1: going to be on the show to go there and
Speaker 1: then represent that right, and it was a handful. It
Speaker 1: was a job that, to be honest with you, I'll
Speaker 1: never endeavor to do again. I'm not going to be
Speaker 1: the black voice of reason for anyone ever again. Ever,
Speaker 1: how heavy was that lift, because, like you said, you
Speaker 1: not knowing the history. I mean, I'm being in l
Speaker 1: A so long. You've just always heard and seeing TMZ
Speaker 1: Like any time anything anti black or black issues came up,
Speaker 1: they looked at you every time. Yeah, but not just them, everybody, everybody, Right,
Speaker 1: So the company looks at me, and then the viewership
Speaker 1: looks at me, and then our community is looking at you,
Speaker 1: and then our community the community is looking at me.
Speaker 1: So after a while, it becomes a situation to where
Speaker 1: you almost lobotomize yourself because even if you do have
Speaker 1: thoughts on a specific issue, I just refused at any
Speaker 1: point at TMZ really for me to be too critical
Speaker 1: of anything that will come from the black community, because
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I was in a safe space
Speaker 1: to do that. Like if we're on like one of
Speaker 1: our platforms, we can say okay he's wilding, Okay, she's
Speaker 1: wilding Okay, whatever you have to protect us, don't matter
Speaker 1: about us, don't matter. Do bring an A K forty
Speaker 1: seven to Disneyland. I'm like, you don't know what he's
Speaker 1: been through. Like if you grew up and where he
Speaker 1: grew up, you bring an A K forty seven to
Speaker 1: Disneyland too, But man, should need not have the A
Speaker 1: K forty seven around the kids. Funk that you don't
Speaker 1: understand next story, you know what I'm saying. And really
Speaker 1: that's something for Black Americans period. We get pushed into that.
Speaker 1: We get pushed into it because there's there's sort of
Speaker 1: no standard of decency in which we're treated. Everything looks
Speaker 1: a certain way, so then we we feel like, Okay,
Speaker 1: well funk it. This is the thing. And so I
Speaker 1: had so many conversations man, and then this I want
Speaker 1: to shout out Charlottage and kill the Mike because two
Speaker 1: solid brother two solid brothers, right. I want to shout
Speaker 1: out Charletagne and killer Mike because when something would go wrong,
Speaker 1: like those will be the guys, of course, Kalika, but
Speaker 1: those will be the guys that I would talk to
Speaker 1: about it, and Mike would be like, because I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: I'm quitting it's all. I'm done. I'm quit. Mike would
Speaker 1: be like, no, we need you there, and Charge just
Speaker 1: never gets it, trying to be like quit for what
Speaker 1: you really care about? What these people on social media?
Speaker 1: He don't give a fun He doesn't care at all,
Speaker 1: Like why don't quit? What you what you're gonna quit?
Speaker 1: You quit? Quit for somebody on Twitter who doesn't know
Speaker 1: your life. You sound bug, call me back when you
Speaker 1: feel the up. But but but it's a hard situation
Speaker 1: and for anybody that's gonna do it now, for anybody
Speaker 1: anywhere that feels like you gotta be the black voice
Speaker 1: of reason. Hey, I'm not saying that it doesn't have
Speaker 1: any utility. I'm not saying that it doesn't that it's
Speaker 1: not useful. We need that. But be ready, you're gonna
Speaker 1: show in your life. Oh yeah, no question. That's a
Speaker 1: lot of stress. I'm not talking. I always wondered that, Broa.
Speaker 1: People talk a lot a lot about that. But like
Speaker 1: with you being a voice, like they don't understand like
Speaker 1: the stuff that comes with it, the death threats and
Speaker 1: all that type of stuff, because a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't don't have the guts to speak out. But a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't like the fact that you have
Speaker 1: the guts to speak out. They hate that. They hate
Speaker 1: that because a lot of people are dying inside. They
Speaker 1: won't they want to say the things you you know,
Speaker 1: they want to be as confident, as bold as you.
Speaker 1: But then again, damn he that compliment. I can't be that.
Speaker 1: The only thing I can I can do it to
Speaker 1: reply to that is hate on him, and that that's
Speaker 1: the only respond you know what I'm saying, And it's
Speaker 1: crazy that way. Everybody got a part to play. The
Speaker 1: last thing I say about this is this Mary and
Speaker 1: Barry had died in d C and TC and Tims
Speaker 1: wrote the headline to people they're like and they came
Speaker 1: at me right, And at first I was I felt
Speaker 1: very I felt like I got defense if I felt
Speaker 1: crazy about that. I'm like, well, I didn't write this headline,
Speaker 1: like I didn't write that. I didn't do that. I'm
Speaker 1: arguing on the show that the headline was wrong. Why
Speaker 1: are coming at me? And then I said, that's actually
Speaker 1: not good enough. That's not good enough. That's not the
Speaker 1: way you go about that. You can't do that that way.
Speaker 1: You can't do that with your people. I had a
Speaker 1: conversation with one of my homies from the Nation, and
Speaker 1: we were talking about a story that we might want
Speaker 1: to do or something that we wanted to do, and
Speaker 1: I'll never forget he said to me. He said, not listen,
Speaker 1: we'll do this and if it and we'll put the
Speaker 1: truth out. But if it goes left, you will be
Speaker 1: accountable on you for this. You will be accountable. So
Speaker 1: if if you stand in that room and they write
Speaker 1: the headline about Mary Barry, that's you. That's you. You
Speaker 1: take what comes with that. You either you move on
Speaker 1: from it or you you you scab up and you
Speaker 1: scar up to where it doesn't bother you. But it's
Speaker 1: not it's not that anything that happened at TMZ. It
Speaker 1: was TMZ and then Van. You were right in the
Speaker 1: middle of the room. Be as you as you can be.
Speaker 1: But remember, as long as you're there, you're fucking there,
Speaker 1: and you just hope that there's a better there after
Speaker 1: you leave. What were the positives from that? I mean,
Speaker 1: like I said, it wasn't all bad. You know, you're
Speaker 1: not even pertaining it as bad as all. But I'm saying, well,
Speaker 1: were some positive some perks being in that position. Uh,
Speaker 1: we'll bit positive was being on TV. Being on TV
Speaker 1: change your life in l A. Just like you know,
Speaker 1: ow TMZ didn't make me rich, but being on TV
Speaker 1: in l A is just different. Like it's like it's
Speaker 1: like a little club lay so crazy man, Like you
Speaker 1: you go somewhere and people everybody's here for one thing.
Speaker 1: So people think that you must be special if you
Speaker 1: got it. They don't know that you came off the
Speaker 1: tour bus, right. They don't know if they would have
Speaker 1: felt out, if they would have gone to Entertainment Careers
Speaker 1: dot net for that one time and they might have
Speaker 1: got that job. They don't know how fortunate it is
Speaker 1: to happen, but they think that you've done something. So
Speaker 1: it allowed me to meet a lot of people that
Speaker 1: that got me to my next thing. All of these
Speaker 1: guys here and here that I'm cool with. It's not
Speaker 1: because of TMZ, but me being who I am on
Speaker 1: that show mattered. And also the Kanye moment was incredibly
Speaker 1: important because the Kanye moment tethered me to my community
Speaker 1: in a big, loud way that would have been impossible,
Speaker 1: right they It was really my audition to be a
Speaker 1: part of the solution, and a lot of people have
Speaker 1: those auditions and a lot of people go and do
Speaker 1: those things, but they don't normally get that much fanfare
Speaker 1: um and more than anything, like being at TMZ around
Speaker 1: those people that were there, it was a that was
Speaker 1: a group of people that I actually my co workers
Speaker 1: that I fell in love with. I love my coworker.
Speaker 1: Even the guy accused me of choking was my man,
Speaker 1: like my dude, and being around I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: choke the man man. I went to put my hands
Speaker 1: on him and say, yo, bro, don't talk, and then
Speaker 1: it went left. But I didn't choke him. I never
Speaker 1: choked anybody, but like I really didn't choke him, like
Speaker 1: if you watch the video, I really did. I don't know.
Speaker 1: People people always say that things choke out of the coworkers.
Speaker 1: I didn't. But but I grew right like I grew
Speaker 1: the people in the office. Like the entire time I
Speaker 1: was there, I grew. I wouldn't wouldn't take it back
Speaker 1: for anything. Haven't worked there. How excited has it been? Built?
Speaker 1: In a new your new show highlining part. I've loved
Speaker 1: being at the Wringer. I think I have the best
Speaker 1: co host. Rachel Lindsay is a fantastic co host. We
Speaker 1: have a unique podcast in that it's like a it's real,
Speaker 1: it's real, and it's a male female perspective. I think
Speaker 1: that personally, this is what I think. I think that
Speaker 1: me and Rachel Lindsay Higher Learning are going to be
Speaker 1: the Regions and Kathy Lee We're going to be the
Speaker 1: Regions and Kathy Lee a little different, a little bit
Speaker 1: more in your face, a little smarter, little sharper. Not
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to disc Regis and Kelly and Regions,
Speaker 1: but if the show would be smarter and maybe a
Speaker 1: little bit more topical. But that's why I see it. Like,
Speaker 1: the chemistry is great, the show is great, and you
Speaker 1: know we're still feeling out. Y'all know that anytime you
Speaker 1: say something, it's a thousand people online that are looking
Speaker 1: at to second. But like ship, I'm gonna be honest
Speaker 1: with you. Rachel has just like made me more unfiltered
Speaker 1: because she don't give an I've been that, she don't
Speaker 1: give a funk and she just she's out there and
Speaker 1: and also bro, she's super intelligent, super intelligent and sharing
Speaker 1: his fill light with black women. I've done. I've done
Speaker 1: I think three podcasts now on the Ringer. One I
Speaker 1: worked with Jamale Hill. The other one I worked Shout.
Speaker 1: I worked with Rachel Lindsay Man. Being with black women
Speaker 1: on a podcast and being a part of of the
Speaker 1: moment that they have, at the moment that they that
Speaker 1: they shared, like the things that they think and knowing
Speaker 1: that you're right there, it's dope that makes you know,
Speaker 1: I go home. I talked to Kalika about that. I
Speaker 1: talked to my girl about that. Yo Man, Rachel said this,
Speaker 1: Jamal said this. You just want people to feel and
Speaker 1: be seen, and I'm getting the chance to do that
Speaker 1: at the ring mm hmm. So Trayvon comedian, actor, writer.
Speaker 1: Uh some of your credentials A full frontal the Daily Show.
Speaker 1: When did you kind of feel like was what was
Speaker 1: the oscar to breakthrough or had you already had you
Speaker 1: kind of were already on the pace of I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like it started with Daily Show because that
Speaker 1: was like my first TV job, and it was like
Speaker 1: it was one of the biggest shows on TV at
Speaker 1: the time. John, when did you what what years were there?
Speaker 1: I was there twelve sixteen, so I was Trevor and
Speaker 1: John and so you know the I started right before
Speaker 1: Obama got reelected like literally like a week before, and
Speaker 1: that was my first Like, up until then, I was
Speaker 1: just doing stand up, stand up, stand up. And then
Speaker 1: when I got that job, like everything changed in like
Speaker 1: TV because it was like a big deal. And then
Speaker 1: now people were like, oh, you can actually like do this,
Speaker 1: Like it's the same thing with the oscars, Like you
Speaker 1: do it. It's like people like, oh, you can actually
Speaker 1: do it, and so um right, and and then it's
Speaker 1: like also like I was the only black writer on
Speaker 1: the show. Uh, like similar to that same experience where
Speaker 1: like you're dealing with the new show, a topical show,
Speaker 1: and any type of black any type of ship happened.
Speaker 1: It's like all the eyes turned to you, like why
Speaker 1: they well, how do you feel about Trey bon Martin,
Speaker 1: how do you feel about blah blah blah, like that
Speaker 1: kind of thing, and it's super fucking awkward. But that
Speaker 1: was the beginning of my TV career, Like I started
Speaker 1: at the highest level in terms of like Late Night
Speaker 1: because the show happened to that point and one ten
Speaker 1: dames in a row. So now everybody's looking at you like, oh,
Speaker 1: so you this is just gonna You're just gonna get
Speaker 1: it like this is gonna happen. And funny enough, my
Speaker 1: first year was their first year losing after years, and
Speaker 1: it was like we had black people got that as
Speaker 1: soon as we did, but we got it back two
Speaker 1: years later. So um, but yeah, that was that was
Speaker 1: the beginning. And then after that you could pretty much
Speaker 1: go anywhere like people were trying to poach you all
Speaker 1: the time. And and then once I had, you know,
Speaker 1: John announced he was leaving, and me and Trevor were boys,
Speaker 1: and I was like the only person he really knew
Speaker 1: what we were the only I was only friend and
Speaker 1: he was like kind of had at the show because
Speaker 1: we would just hang out in my office. Was like
Speaker 1: he's black, I'm black. Actually just kind of like fall
Speaker 1: into that that same thing when you like the only
Speaker 1: two people anywhere. And so once he got the job,
Speaker 1: like I was, I had gotten like a couple offers
Speaker 1: to go places, and I was like, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: stay with you and like build this new show kind
Speaker 1: of thing. And then once uh, I kind of felt
Speaker 1: like I had run my course there and I've been
Speaker 1: doing it long enough. Came back to l A and
Speaker 1: got really into the scripted TV game, and so I
Speaker 1: did like camping on HBO Black Monday with Done on Showtime,
Speaker 1: show Time. Everybody Showtime is great. I loved the Showtime
Speaker 1: people Man. And then it was just like TV show
Speaker 1: off the TV show The Lakers, the Lakers drama on HBO.
Speaker 1: And then it was just like just sitting around like
Speaker 1: the show. Everybody had either finished the writer's room, everything
Speaker 1: had been like shut down, shut down. So that's when
Speaker 1: the movie came. It was like I came up with
Speaker 1: the idea for the movie. I saw to Apple with
Speaker 1: the Edges Elba and and like the very very beginning
Speaker 1: of the pandemic and me and Simon Kenburgh, so that
Speaker 1: while that was like happening too, Distant Strangers was kind
Speaker 1: of happening in between it all, and we sold that
Speaker 1: movie last August and then it just it was weird
Speaker 1: because like you were watching the world kind of collapse
Speaker 1: around you. And then like but professionally, like my life
Speaker 1: was just like doing it. Just started doing this and
Speaker 1: it was such a like strange thing to kind of
Speaker 1: like balance. Yeah, he had it not to cut you
Speaker 1: off a similar ship, like we found our group during
Speaker 1: the pandemic. It came out a lot better than we
Speaker 1: win it's like, damn, I'm doing well, but you see
Speaker 1: what the world I said, everything around you is crumbling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, I'm super blessed to be like
Speaker 1: in this position and like doing all this stuff. And
Speaker 1: it's like it's just crazy that when like everybody's world
Speaker 1: collapsed and it's collapsing around you, and people are like
Speaker 1: frontline workers and like uber drivers and all these people
Speaker 1: are like having to deal with all these issues and
Speaker 1: you're like, man, so are they gonna buy my movie
Speaker 1: or like, like the problems are just so different and
Speaker 1: you're trying to like not like feel like an asshole.
Speaker 1: It's like then you're just like, but this is just
Speaker 1: what I do. It's just me. It's just been what
Speaker 1: my life has been, this business, and I'm just fortunate
Speaker 1: that that's what it is. And so once all that
Speaker 1: started happening, like you just got us to here, man, Like,
Speaker 1: it was how do you feel like you're experiencing in
Speaker 1: your journey? Prepared you for to distance strangers? You know,
Speaker 1: it was being at Daily Show for as my first
Speaker 1: job was like like you were talking about stack like
Speaker 1: stuff just sets you up to be prepared for everything
Speaker 1: you're supposed to get and that show is so fast paced.
Speaker 1: You have so much responsibility and you have so little
Speaker 1: time to get it done. Like that show is four
Speaker 1: nights a week, is live to tape. Is we started
Speaker 1: nine am? You have an hour to write your script.
Speaker 1: You have twenty minutes to rewrite your script after you
Speaker 1: get your nose back. You got rehearsal at four o'clock,
Speaker 1: you got rewrite at five o'clock. The show is on
Speaker 1: at six. That's every single day, and you have a
Speaker 1: building full of people who were just like scrambling all
Speaker 1: day making that show happen. And it's a testament to
Speaker 1: why it was so good, because it was like everybody
Speaker 1: knew their job, everybody was good at their job, and
Speaker 1: they just did it and you wanted to like work
Speaker 1: hard for somebody like John because he was so good
Speaker 1: and such a great leader. And so having that experience
Speaker 1: for four years, I always say it felt like like
Speaker 1: comedy and like TV college. Like it was like I
Speaker 1: got my four year degree and how to run a
Speaker 1: TV show, how to run a production, how to lead
Speaker 1: a group of people in this particular like setting, if
Speaker 1: you if it came to that, And so once I left,
Speaker 1: everything else felt low. Yeah, it was like anything like yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like, why are we not? Why are we just
Speaker 1: sitting here? It was like, oh yeah, because it's nothing
Speaker 1: like I'm used to like go go, go, go go.
Speaker 1: And so when stuff does happen, when you're doing something
Speaker 1: and there is something to be done, you just you
Speaker 1: just already for it, like Firefighters, Like that's kind of
Speaker 1: test them to the movie though, the same thing you're saying,
Speaker 1: how the show was really fast paced. Look at all
Speaker 1: of the ad living and all that stuff that I
Speaker 1: had to do to get the show done. All kind
Speaker 1: of stuff was coming. But experience is the best teacher, bro,
Speaker 1: And that's basically what you're saying. I've been through it already,
Speaker 1: so anything that comes now, I know how to deal
Speaker 1: with it. That's exactly what it felt like. It was
Speaker 1: like all those moments you just didn't feel like they
Speaker 1: couldn't be done, they couldn't be fixed or couldn't be conquered,
Speaker 1: and it was all because, like working on two of
Speaker 1: the best lady night TV shows in TV, you just
Speaker 1: had to do it and you had to learn it.
Speaker 1: And how people had that resume though, killer that's that's yeah.
Speaker 1: We went on show like you said, I mean, he's
Speaker 1: been doing great work for so long, but now he's
Speaker 1: getting the recognition because of that, because I've been killing it.
Speaker 1: Huh Like, yeah, you know, you might just know me
Speaker 1: now because of this. But I've been doing my things,
Speaker 1: so obviously that's things. But you're a hooper to Domingus Hills.
Speaker 1: Where were you there? I was at Domingus. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was that Domingus from three so samere had just left.
Speaker 1: You missed Jason Thomas, Yeah, I just missed him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then m Thompson was a sucking Mons two sports man.
Speaker 1: He scared me a death with a quick story. In
Speaker 1: the eighth grade, we played him and he had to
Speaker 1: play it on a team called p t I and
Speaker 1: this nigger was Win Milling slapping the last in eighth grade.
Speaker 1: I remember I went home and I wrote in my
Speaker 1: diary in schools like I just seen Jason Thomas this weekend.
Speaker 1: There's no way I'm going to the NBA. And probably
Speaker 1: the next week he probably went through tint. He was
Speaker 1: like a man in the country too. Man. But you
Speaker 1: talked to us the Doman guests. Yeah, yeah, that was
Speaker 1: crazy because like our fresh my freshman year, I think
Speaker 1: like severe that was your sophomore year, right. We won
Speaker 1: the national championship that year, and it was like it
Speaker 1: was like basketball, it's like stupid championship. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: like it was like Tyson's junior year and the team
Speaker 1: was just like crazy, Like it was crazy being fifteen
Speaker 1: and going to play basketball in an arena and like
Speaker 1: people lined up to like get your autograph and you're like, bro,
Speaker 1: we're the same age, Like this is so crazy and
Speaker 1: this is pretty social media though, just like they get
Speaker 1: to see you when person is different. It was I
Speaker 1: mean we were like we're touring the country, like we're
Speaker 1: playing Eddie Curry over like Dwon Wagner and like like
Speaker 1: uh ce say, and who am I forgetting some here? Um?
Speaker 1: Just like so many like the biggest names of that
Speaker 1: like that era of yeah, like he from my area.
Speaker 1: It was. It was this was high school like and
Speaker 1: you're playing like future NBA. Also, like everywhere you go,
Speaker 1: the team is like a nationally ranked like crazy team.
Speaker 1: And so that was just like it seems like everywhere
Speaker 1: I was going, I was being thrown into like the
Speaker 1: the highest version. Like you're gonna learn real fast. Everywhere
Speaker 1: you go. You have to learn real fast. And it's
Speaker 1: been that same way like every time. And then so
Speaker 1: like after you know, I graduated in two three and
Speaker 1: I went to Loumbie State, we went to the tournament.
Speaker 1: I think my senior year was like the year we
Speaker 1: went to the tournament twelve five game, got beat up
Speaker 1: by Tennessee. It wasn't that bad we were, That's what
Speaker 1: it was. Already going to Tennessee. He might already been going.
Speaker 1: I think he was, yeah, because the thing was, it
Speaker 1: wasn't like we played bad. They played amazing. Like we
Speaker 1: we led the nation in scoring that year. We average
Speaker 1: eighty nine points a game, uh that season, and they
Speaker 1: came out shooting like yes, sixties seventy percent from three,
Speaker 1: just like was not missing, and like we were making shots,
Speaker 1: but we were like making layup so like doing it,
Speaker 1: and they're like three pointer, whatever we do three pointer,
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, y'all just like hot, Like
Speaker 1: there's nothing we could do about this, Like we're not
Speaker 1: we're not turning the ball over, We're not like like
Speaker 1: messing up our plays. It's just like y'all are just
Speaker 1: bawling and the aready. Nothing we could do about it.
Speaker 1: And so it was fun man, like to play in
Speaker 1: the tournament, like if you get a chance, like it's amazing.
Speaker 1: And so I was happy that, like at every stage
Speaker 1: I got to like experience at least the thing or
Speaker 1: wherever the high point of that thing was. So when
Speaker 1: I graduated, I was like, I was happy. I had
Speaker 1: knee surgery. That's why you know that. Yeah, my sophomore
Speaker 1: year blew out in practice, and so I only played
Speaker 1: three of my four years because after I did the rehab,
Speaker 1: he it was so hard, man, and I just didn't
Speaker 1: want to do it. They take it out, took it out,
Speaker 1: all of it. Yeah, Yeah, they had to take percent.
Speaker 1: I tore my this week with the Lakers, and I
Speaker 1: was out like seven weeks. They took out. So every
Speaker 1: once in a while, I have to do this. And
Speaker 1: so he told me they were going to like what
Speaker 1: they thought they were going to do when they ended
Speaker 1: up being yeah, because like he showed me the picture afterwards,
Speaker 1: and they ain't like nothing in thereship because it's hard
Speaker 1: to get blood flow in that area to try to
Speaker 1: rebuild everything. Yeah, Hooper's story, but just the events around race, racism,
Speaker 1: social justice, how has that impacted you in the last
Speaker 1: couple of years and do you see light starting to
Speaker 1: come out at the end of at the end of
Speaker 1: the tunnel the term social justice Like for me, we
Speaker 1: we We're just trying to live, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's like, I guess there is a very strategic way
Speaker 1: you have to go about getting what you want in America,
Speaker 1: but you don't when you're black, you're initiated. You don't
Speaker 1: have to decide to get a cause and go This
Speaker 1: is like about surviving or as I call it, stur thriving.
Speaker 1: You want to be alive and you want to be well.
Speaker 1: You know. So the answer to the question is there
Speaker 1: allied at the end of the tunnel. No, there's not.
Speaker 1: There's no light. Uh. Things will I'm hopeful that we
Speaker 1: figure things out. But I just hope people understand that.
Speaker 1: Like we talked about so many different things that you know,
Speaker 1: talk to people and people go, hey, I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a lot of money, I'm gonna give
Speaker 1: back to your community. That's dope, that's amazing. Everybody should
Speaker 1: do that. Everybody should should seek to We live in
Speaker 1: a capitalists in a capitalist society, everybody should seek to
Speaker 1: get a lot of money and create a lot of
Speaker 1: jobs and do all of that stuff. I just hope
Speaker 1: people know that that's not what we're talking about. What
Speaker 1: we're talking about is intentional systemic dysfunction. Intentional systemic dysfunction.
Speaker 1: I want you to look all over the world at
Speaker 1: places that had systems that were intentional, intentionally unequal. Right,
Speaker 1: if you look at apartheid in South Africa. In order
Speaker 1: for South Africa to turn, apartheid has to go, right,
Speaker 1: it has to go. Obviously, that's different than what we're
Speaker 1: talking about here, but we're talking about participation in cooperation
Speaker 1: in the guts of America, in the guts of it,
Speaker 1: in the guts of what this country is. And it's
Speaker 1: participation that is black people we've always had. Like it's
Speaker 1: it's interesting. There's a god called whiteness is a god complex, right,
Speaker 1: Like whiteness as it exists is the belief that this
Speaker 1: was all created by one omnipotent force, and you're lucky
Speaker 1: to worship that force. That's what white supremacy is. You're
Speaker 1: lucky to be here. We took you out of Africa
Speaker 1: right where you were running around with a fucking bone
Speaker 1: in your nose. You couldn't read you had no culture,
Speaker 1: you had no nothing. We came you, We came you
Speaker 1: over and we taught you how to use a salad
Speaker 1: for it. And what you should do is for in perpetuity,
Speaker 1: you and your progeny. You should worship that. Right. That's bullshit.
Speaker 1: That's bullshit. Number one. What we were and what we
Speaker 1: are on that continent is completely different than what you
Speaker 1: said on culture, on family, on laws, on hierarchies, royalty,
Speaker 1: rich is, wealth, doctors, scientists, all of that stuff. People
Speaker 1: figuring out the way the world works over there. So
Speaker 1: that's bullshit. And then over when when you talk about
Speaker 1: us coming over here, you didn't do anything alone, Like
Speaker 1: Franklin said, Brick by brick, the labor that built the
Speaker 1: country is on a sweat of my ancestors. There's been
Speaker 1: the only thing that we've ever been the big given
Speaker 1: license to do in America is be exploited. So systems
Speaker 1: built on that. How do you fix them? Well, you
Speaker 1: can try to fix them by participation in those systems,
Speaker 1: and some of us will win that way. But the
Speaker 1: better way to fix them is to reprogram the systems themselves.
Speaker 1: And that's hard because that means that somebody has to
Speaker 1: do what nobody wants to do in America is lose.
Speaker 1: You see what I'm saying, Like, they're cool with us
Speaker 1: losing because they put us in a position to lose
Speaker 1: for a John. So the question then is, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm what I'm asking you is, I'm asking you not
Speaker 1: to grease the wills for everybody around you to get
Speaker 1: an advantage. I'm asking corporations to pay the appropriate tax rate. Right,
Speaker 1: I'm asking for real participatory action into America what you
Speaker 1: say you want. And once that happens, we'll get together
Speaker 1: and will work in our communities and will fix them.
Speaker 1: But the piece of the pie, it has to be
Speaker 1: divvied out equally or with some sort of equity. Now,
Speaker 1: anytime you start talking about that, any time you start examining,
Speaker 1: or when you say you want an accounting of America,
Speaker 1: you want to open up the books. You want to
Speaker 1: know exactly what you're entitled to as an American citizen.
Speaker 1: And I use the word entitled because these are promises
Speaker 1: that have been made promises, So you're not asking for nothing,
Speaker 1: You're not working entitled to people talking about people complaining, well,
Speaker 1: complaining about freedom and the America would be like your
Speaker 1: lungs complaining about air. It's that simple, Like your lungs
Speaker 1: are entitled to air. Their function is air. As an
Speaker 1: American citizen, your function is freedom. They say no, and
Speaker 1: they have all kinds of reasons that they don't do it.
Speaker 1: We don't have environmental freedom, we don't have social freedom,
Speaker 1: we don't have freedom of movement, we don't have any
Speaker 1: of that. So we need to overhaul. We need serious
Speaker 1: people to do it. And it's not philanthropy, is not
Speaker 1: posting black squares on your Graham, it's not. None of
Speaker 1: that is dirty, hard, rigorous work by a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are looking in a lot of fucking mirrors.
Speaker 1: And so my hope is that this is the beginning
Speaker 1: because of the information, like even the people in the
Speaker 1: past right that they would have us look at right
Speaker 1: and give us examples of their lives. They always give
Speaker 1: us examples of people that they shot up, lives that
Speaker 1: were ended. We don't think about the fact that Malcolm
Speaker 1: X and Dr King were just men with families. Forget
Speaker 1: about being these great social social people and people that
Speaker 1: changed America. They were guys with families. Mothers lost husband,
Speaker 1: kids lost dad's no more daddy. Government killed daddy, and
Speaker 1: then what we look at that and we go, Okay,
Speaker 1: they left great lives. They sacrificed for what. They didn't
Speaker 1: sacrifice ship. They were murdered. Like Nancy Pelosi said, George Floyd,
Speaker 1: I know that somebody close to you stack sacrifice his
Speaker 1: life or whatever. George Floyd didn't choose to die at all.
Speaker 1: So stop acting like there's something virtue was in black death.
Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is all of these things have
Speaker 1: to change, Like all of these ideas have got to change,
Speaker 1: and in order to change, and we gotta face them.
Speaker 1: And so I'm hopeful that we can start to face them.
Speaker 1: And I think that there that there's so much information
Speaker 1: in there. So and by the way, everybody's the last
Speaker 1: thing I wanna say about this, guys on I know
Speaker 1: I'm drawing on. Stop looking across the other side of
Speaker 1: things and picking apart what it is your brother or
Speaker 1: your sister's doing. Do your part, Like, stop arguing whether
Speaker 1: or not no name is right, or whether or not
Speaker 1: Mike killer Mike is right, Like, do your part. Jump
Speaker 1: in there right. If you are a black capitalist, tell
Speaker 1: me how we're gonna win. If you are a socialist
Speaker 1: or Marxist. Tell me how we're gonna win. Get the
Speaker 1: information out to the people and let them decide what's
Speaker 1: the best way to fix America. But stop, we have
Speaker 1: to look. I do it too. Sometimes. I went on
Speaker 1: the whole rant about van Jones, the whole rant on
Speaker 1: my podcast about Van Jones. You know what I did after.
Speaker 1: I know how you feel, But you know what I
Speaker 1: did after I picked up the phone. I called Van Jones.
Speaker 1: I apologize to him. And the reason why I apologize
Speaker 1: to him, it's because I don't. I don't agree with
Speaker 1: a lot of the ways that Van Jones like. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't agree with a lot of the
Speaker 1: ways of vantages. That's not real. If you're gonna agree
Speaker 1: with everything somebody say, that's not what the reality is.
Speaker 1: There are people who are incarcerated who are home with
Speaker 1: their families because of the work that he has been doing.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna hang out with trumping them. I'm not
Speaker 1: going up there to sign no bills. I'm not doing anything.
Speaker 1: While I might go up there to sign a bill,
Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna go I'm not doing all of that.
Speaker 1: But that's his thing. It doesn't matter what I think
Speaker 1: of it. I can't stand in a way of progress.
Speaker 1: So whatever conversations, whatever, whatever we have, let's talk about
Speaker 1: them to each other. And that's what I'm saying, and
Speaker 1: I'm hopeful that those things can start. I try to
Speaker 1: simplify for a lot of people. Man, just imagine you're
Speaker 1: starting the business and you hire thirty employees, the third
Speaker 1: employees build your business to a billion dollar business. But
Speaker 1: then you treat them like ship. They're gonna eventually turn
Speaker 1: on you. And that's what that's this world, that's that's
Speaker 1: the that's the United States. You tell then you tell
Speaker 1: them they had nothing to do exactly. So that's this
Speaker 1: is what we're going through right now. You can't continue
Speaker 1: to expect the people that built this place to live
Speaker 1: the right way, or to overlook what's been done in
Speaker 1: them and continue to treat them like ship. And they're
Speaker 1: not rebel on you. You know what I'm saying. We're
Speaker 1: waking up now. It's not just us then, you know,
Speaker 1: like I said, what happened if Georgie put me in
Speaker 1: this position and I don't even consider myself for actives,
Speaker 1: I'm going I'm just doing right by the community. I
Speaker 1: don't want to be putting that position because I'm not
Speaker 1: that because I know people that go by that Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean neither. You know what I'm saying. They go
Speaker 1: by that title. They've done great work, so I don't
Speaker 1: even I don't even want to diminish their work and
Speaker 1: put myself as an activist. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: we all have a part to play, and if you
Speaker 1: out there doing your part, you don't have time to
Speaker 1: word about what somebody else is not doing, that they're
Speaker 1: doing it right or not. We all have a part
Speaker 1: of player. We all have the same goal, and that's
Speaker 1: to get treated like human beings and not like animals
Speaker 1: and that and when people think like that, man, it's
Speaker 1: easier for us to get there. But everybody is always
Speaker 1: worry about what somebody else is doing. And then again,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna finish on this. Everybody has their religion who
Speaker 1: they pray to. When you get ready to go and
Speaker 1: you're going to your judgment day, you're not getting judged
Speaker 1: about what somebody else did. It's about what you did
Speaker 1: on this earth and the good you did, So worry
Speaker 1: about what you do. Live righteous and I think we
Speaker 1: get there, you know what I'm saying. But we but
Speaker 1: we have to worry about what we can do ourselves
Speaker 1: and not what somebody else is doing. But I think
Speaker 1: also too, I mean, any change we fight for now,
Speaker 1: however part whatever role we play, we probably won't really
Speaker 1: see it. You always say that as we have to understand,
Speaker 1: like what we're doing now is our kids are gonna
Speaker 1: see and my sons are gonna see. If you guys
Speaker 1: have children, have children soon, your kids are gonna see it.
Speaker 1: So it's also fighting something for you know, you really
Speaker 1: may never get a piece of you don't really never
Speaker 1: get the benefit from. And are you okay with that?
Speaker 1: You know? But I think obviously once you become even
Speaker 1: if you don't have children, but I know, like once
Speaker 1: I became a father, like that outlook changed, like damn,
Speaker 1: I'm doing all this. I'm not gonna feel it. But now, no,
Speaker 1: I'm doing all this now because my kids are gonna
Speaker 1: feel it, and their kids are gonna feel it, and
Speaker 1: the next generation needs to see it. So I definitely,
Speaker 1: I just feel encouraged from a standpoint of you know,
Speaker 1: for four hundred plus years it's been one way, and
Speaker 1: I think for the first time, unfortunately through George Floyd
Speaker 1: being killed they're listening that some of them may have
Speaker 1: pretended they're listening, but enough people are listening now, So
Speaker 1: what is our strategic plan moving forward? Like, we can't
Speaker 1: continue to fight, kill and do all this ship and
Speaker 1: think we're gonna overtake it. We gotta overtake it with
Speaker 1: our minds, you know, and our unity. And I see
Speaker 1: some of that. Obviously, we take a couple of steps
Speaker 1: forward and then take a few steps back. But I
Speaker 1: think overall we're starting to understand, like together, we're not
Speaker 1: the minority. Because of the skin color. They try to
Speaker 1: call us the minority to keep us in our place,
Speaker 1: but we're actually the majority. And the only thing I want.
Speaker 1: It's so simple. It's like people come to me, like
Speaker 1: what do you want? Right, And we're all successful guys,
Speaker 1: we're sitting up there and we're talking about what's wrong
Speaker 1: with the country. A lot of people look at that,
Speaker 1: and they go, hey, look, you got millions of dollars
Speaker 1: up here, a thousand dollars over here in Van and
Speaker 1: and and and and they and they say, and they say, like,
Speaker 1: you know what, this is what I want. You know
Speaker 1: what I want safe black people. If I just want safe,
Speaker 1: safe means environmentally safe safe means economically safe, do you know,
Speaker 1: Like it's like we talked about stress and trauma. I
Speaker 1: just think about like one time my dad was real quick.
Speaker 1: One time my dad like he saw my um or
Speaker 1: my uncle Mark passed away. He was on drugs for
Speaker 1: you know, most of his life, and he had gone
Speaker 1: another pin and stuff like that. I'm seeing in the
Speaker 1: truck my dad and my dad hangs with the phone.
Speaker 1: He goes, man Mark back on that ship, and he
Speaker 1: gives himself a split second to be sad about the
Speaker 1: fact that his brother was back on drugs. A split
Speaker 1: sector and he looks at me and he goes, nigger,
Speaker 1: if I ever catch you fucking with drugs, I never
Speaker 1: forget he cut the cough. I hadn't done nothing. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like, cut the cough. If I
Speaker 1: ever catch you fucking with drugs, I will kill you myself.
Speaker 1: He looks at me, like, look at me. Don't you
Speaker 1: bring that ship in my house. Don't you funk with
Speaker 1: nobody that's sucking with that, Then I'll hurt you. He's scared.
Speaker 1: He's scared. He lives in the community where his son
Speaker 1: has to deal with that. He's upset. He's scared. He
Speaker 1: saw what happened to his brother, doesn't want to happen
Speaker 1: to me. Now he's got to make now, he's got
Speaker 1: to put fear in me. This this we're not safe.
Speaker 1: We don't feel safe, and we need to build more
Speaker 1: apparatus in America where we feel safe so we can
Speaker 1: live out our lives. That's all I'm saying, Safe Black people.
Speaker 1: Thoughts on you being a foremor athlete, obviously athlete role
Speaker 1: in continuing to amplify these messages that are our community
Speaker 1: are coming up with, the activist are coming up with,
Speaker 1: and how important that is. Jack and I had a
Speaker 1: disagreement when the NBA was going into the bubble. He thought,
Speaker 1: and we like, we really like completely opposite, different size,
Speaker 1: how we thought, but we talked and understood the pros
Speaker 1: and cons of both sides. But he thought that people
Speaker 1: shouldn't play. We should continue to march, fight, bring awareness.
Speaker 1: I flipped it, thinking like if we do play the all,
Speaker 1: you know, our voices are going to be amplified with
Speaker 1: that NBA logo behind us, Like you'll be able to
Speaker 1: hear Lebron or hear CP, but you won't be able
Speaker 1: to hear our whole message. Our whole message travels around
Speaker 1: the world when that logo is behind it. So we
Speaker 1: we went back and forth with you know, whether guys
Speaker 1: should play or not, but they played. I thought they
Speaker 1: put the message out. How important you think not only
Speaker 1: basketball but athletes and other entertainers, Uh, how important is
Speaker 1: for them to continue to push the needle and make
Speaker 1: people uncomfortable. I think it's It's of the things I
Speaker 1: think is so important because athletes are some of the
Speaker 1: most famous people on the planet, and like there, sports
Speaker 1: is one of those things where people leave their their
Speaker 1: party lines at the door when you show up to
Speaker 1: the arena. You're a Lakers fan. You're not a Republican
Speaker 1: Lakers fan or a Democratic Lakers fan. You're a Lakers fan.
Speaker 1: And that's the bulls and funk the Bulls. The Lakers
Speaker 1: better win this game. And so when you're cheering on
Speaker 1: and supporting these athletes across any sport, I think among
Speaker 1: from my experience, there is a fear of not having
Speaker 1: the knowledge of the ability to speak like the people
Speaker 1: you see on TV when you talk about an issue,
Speaker 1: to be able to support it or to voice how
Speaker 1: you feel to or you have to be heard, and
Speaker 1: I think that causes a lot of athletes to just
Speaker 1: say nothing or to just kind of hide in the
Speaker 1: shadows and like let Lebron and let Chris and let
Speaker 1: Magan Rapino on it all. Like when you step out there,
Speaker 1: they're gonna listen to every word and look down. So
Speaker 1: when you do take that leap of faith, it's scary.
Speaker 1: It is, and I totally get because you're like, I
Speaker 1: got a brand, I got millions of dollars to protect
Speaker 1: my family. It totally makes sense. What I what I
Speaker 1: think we can get to is a place where it's
Speaker 1: a more cohesive voice, where you don't have to feel isolated.
Speaker 1: And I got to know all the ins and outs
Speaker 1: of the George Floyd Act to be able to talk
Speaker 1: about why I support elements of it, or why I
Speaker 1: support this or why I support that, and let it
Speaker 1: just like let them, let them do it for you.
Speaker 1: But I think it's, like you're saying, so many millions
Speaker 1: of people are listening and paying attention just seeing black
Speaker 1: lives matter on the court every game is making you
Speaker 1: face it. If you're a fan who's been trying to
Speaker 1: avoid it, you can't there. It is and you have
Speaker 1: to be confronted with it, and if if more and
Speaker 1: more athletes, if more and more organizations with some sport,
Speaker 1: the athletes in using their voice to to talk about
Speaker 1: the things that are plaguing their community. Because you have
Speaker 1: an NBA that's like black. You have the NFL it's
Speaker 1: like seventies something for saying black. How can you as
Speaker 1: an organization look at the fact that your entire business
Speaker 1: is built on their backs, on their ability to perform,
Speaker 1: and you ignore the things that they take home every
Speaker 1: day because they think they're doing you a favor by
Speaker 1: allowing you to play. Exactly, they don't. They don't understand
Speaker 1: that you worked hard your whole life. It's to give
Speaker 1: from God that you have. They didn't do nothing. They're
Speaker 1: giving your opportunity that you take an advantage of it.
Speaker 1: So they that's how they think though they think they've
Speaker 1: given you something that you didn't work for. But I
Speaker 1: think that's what we I mean, we need more empathy
Speaker 1: and understanding at my point of view, because you can't
Speaker 1: expect uh middle class, upper class white men to ever
Speaker 1: understand our struggle because they will never have to go
Speaker 1: to us. But we're asking you is to kind of
Speaker 1: step outside of your life and and not even walk
Speaker 1: them out on are you just put see if the
Speaker 1: motherfucker's fit. I have an understanding of our day to
Speaker 1: day battles, So why would they do that? You got
Speaker 1: you got black people that see people struggling in their
Speaker 1: own neighborhood and they get out and make it and
Speaker 1: don't even think to go. You know, they're in that
Speaker 1: position with these people, you know what I'm saying. So
Speaker 1: how can you expect another race to care about our issues?
Speaker 1: And we don't even care about our own people. So
Speaker 1: both of y'all are right in my opinion, And and
Speaker 1: you know this, that's a very you're not supposed to
Speaker 1: say on the podcast, fuck that ship, No, But both
Speaker 1: of y'all all right, So either way it works, but
Speaker 1: it just you have to be committed to it. Now
Speaker 1: what you just said is very very very key. It's
Speaker 1: like what you what you said is people sometimes make
Speaker 1: out the the the projects, whatever, they don't give back
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. It's actually not even in our nature,
Speaker 1: like that's learned. Like we're cooperative, right, But if you
Speaker 1: get so, we have to make a decision as a
Speaker 1: community whether or not we're actually a community or we're
Speaker 1: just a bunch of people that you know what I'm saying. So,
Speaker 1: so like like we were like we have to make
Speaker 1: a decision about whether or not we're a community or
Speaker 1: we're just like a bunch of people that survived some ship.
Speaker 1: Because right now, if we all, if we all like
Speaker 1: on a plane, right, we're on a plane, we cruise
Speaker 1: into our altitude, right, we're going to like I don't know,
Speaker 1: can'coon whatever, We're going someplace like we're all gonna go
Speaker 1: he bro, look at this movie. When I'm gonna watch
Speaker 1: this movie, and I'm gonna watch the movie go, hey man,
Speaker 1: I can't wait till we get there. When we get there,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be like, we're gonna coordinate. We're all gonna
Speaker 1: work together. If the plane goes down, Me, tray Vaughne,
Speaker 1: and Matt are going to be like, let's eat Jack.
Speaker 1: If the plane goes down, we're gonna start looking around
Speaker 1: and being like, okay, who can we eat Jack? Can't
Speaker 1: swim so right, right, So we because now all primary
Speaker 1: focus is surviving something. So it's like fucking I gotta
Speaker 1: stay warm, I gotta stay fed, and not everybody can
Speaker 1: do it, right, not everybody can stay warm and stay fed.
Speaker 1: Everybody can't. So then we start looking for the weak
Speaker 1: person who can't, and then we get them out of
Speaker 1: there and we take what it is that they got,
Speaker 1: And that's just not community. That's not what the community is.
Speaker 1: The community is seeing somebody who may be struggling or
Speaker 1: who may need to look at helping them because of
Speaker 1: a belief inherently and a top belief that they're going
Speaker 1: to add something when they get to where you are.
Speaker 1: So in terms of your point, that's what we have
Speaker 1: to decide, whether or not we're a community, or whether
Speaker 1: or not we're just a bunch of people that survived
Speaker 1: some ship because survives gonna go their own way. As
Speaker 1: far as what you guys were talking about in the bubble,
Speaker 1: I really didn't like. For me. It's like Kyrie Irvin
Speaker 1: is my favorite basketball player on the planet right, He's
Speaker 1: my favorite basketball player because I think he's doing something invaluable.
Speaker 1: He's giving context and perspective to this. He is playing
Speaker 1: basketball and basketball has provided him, uh a great life
Speaker 1: and a platform. Is NBA basketball as important as what's
Speaker 1: going on in the Middle East? Now, It's just not
Speaker 1: you have to be a moron to think that when kids,
Speaker 1: when kids are dying, right, So when he when you
Speaker 1: put a mic in his face and he goes, hey, yeah,
Speaker 1: basketball is cool, but I want to talk about what's
Speaker 1: going on in Kenosha, Wisconsin. We we gotta have that.
Speaker 1: And the rub is that we can't have that if
Speaker 1: they're not playing, you know what I mean. But then
Speaker 1: if they don't play, that would be a huge, huge, huge,
Speaker 1: big thing too, because that would be working on people's
Speaker 1: pockets so bad. So I think both people are right.
Speaker 1: But I think one thing that we have to do
Speaker 1: to Trayvon's point is we just have to know what
Speaker 1: we're saying. I see so many people and I see
Speaker 1: stephen A. Smith, uh, and I love stephen A. Smith.
Speaker 1: I see s A. Smith being critical of Kyrie and
Speaker 1: being critical of like what he's doing and how he's
Speaker 1: comporting himself. I think that balance is needed. I think that,
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, if athletes would have been
Speaker 1: like this in the nineties or in the eighties, we
Speaker 1: might be better off right now. And I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not coming at those guys. I'm just saying, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: ship going on. I know the dude could put the
Speaker 1: ball in the hole. But what else you got for us?
Speaker 1: I personally like like making white people uncomfortable. I think
Speaker 1: they actually I think they think better and on their feet.
Speaker 1: I think we're doing a disservice to white people by
Speaker 1: keeping them comfortable because they're not gonna do it right,
Speaker 1: and now we're gonna have to come at them. The
Speaker 1: best thing we can do for white america's continuously made
Speaker 1: them uncomfortable, and then we'll all get to a place
Speaker 1: where maybe we could all be a little bit more.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's crazy you brought up Kyrie because I
Speaker 1: was someone who was opinionated on this thing, because it
Speaker 1: didn't seem like when he first came with the idea
Speaker 1: that he had a plan. To me, I wanted to
Speaker 1: have a plan. This is another thing. He and I
Speaker 1: went out ye talk every day, and it was it
Speaker 1: was because it's just like, you know, you have that
Speaker 1: platform with you're poky, You're not gonna play. What's the plan?
Speaker 1: Not playing is not solving anything, like you said, You're
Speaker 1: just you're making people mad because games are, but like
Speaker 1: what you're planing. And then once I kind of figured
Speaker 1: out what his play or hearing what his plan and
Speaker 1: seeing that he really had a plan. I had to
Speaker 1: take a step back and ad I was wrong, because
Speaker 1: like to me, I think, like I said, our strength
Speaker 1: is our platform, Our strength is our voice. Our strength
Speaker 1: is our ability to connect dots, our strength of our
Speaker 1: ability to get our voice around the world. So okay,
Speaker 1: if you're just gonna set out, that's you're wasting all.
Speaker 1: But he was doing more than just what at this
Speaker 1: What if he didn't have a plan. What if he
Speaker 1: just said a black man got shot today, I don't
Speaker 1: feel like shooting the basketball. I would understand that. But
Speaker 1: to me, it's it's not like that's your that's your
Speaker 1: individual choice and that's what you want to do, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But to criticize other people that
Speaker 1: want to go move forward and go ahead and play,
Speaker 1: I'm not with But if you do like I said
Speaker 1: and find out that he did have a plan, like
Speaker 1: I had to take a step back and it admit
Speaker 1: I was wrong and have extended a hand and and
Speaker 1: and sitting down and having a conversation. But I completely
Speaker 1: agree like the way he handles stuff now And to me,
Speaker 1: I mean, we're transitioning into the basketball conversation part of
Speaker 1: the interview right now, I think Kyrie is the best
Speaker 1: player right now he's ever been because he's so clear
Speaker 1: on who he is as a player on and off
Speaker 1: the court, supercarm and he's so at peace with who
Speaker 1: he is on and off the court, and not a
Speaker 1: motherfucker can't disturb that. And then usually when you're at peace,
Speaker 1: that's when you're at your best and everything you're putting
Speaker 1: your first you know, you're putting your your foot first. Two.
Speaker 1: So I love what he's doing. I definitely love that.
Speaker 1: Look at this season he had though the sixth player,
Speaker 1: seventh player. Yeah, so it's and fast after fast in
Speaker 1: the month. M I don't understand his game. It's incredible.
Speaker 1: He just got told so much in his bag. You
Speaker 1: can't you don't know what it's not even a but
Speaker 1: it's not a bag. I think it's I think it's
Speaker 1: disrespectful the call. What Kylie ever has he got like
Speaker 1: you know, like them a little Infinity symbols forever whatever
Speaker 1: he wants. Yeah, so my man, yeah, my rolling, right,
Speaker 1: my man Rolling. He works with he works with Kyrie,
Speaker 1: And he told me one time because like I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get my game back right for the adult men's leads,
Speaker 1: he went through. He not too long ago. If y'all
Speaker 1: don't know, he went back to some old footage. He
Speaker 1: was a little heavier and he showed itself. Duncan, that
Speaker 1: was a while back then. I don't know if you're
Speaker 1: gonna get back to that. Let's say. Here's the thing, though,
Speaker 1: it's not about Duncan anymore. The player in the NBA
Speaker 1: that has set me free, Luca, I can do that, Bro,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, Bro, I can I can do that. Bro,
Speaker 1: that likely six to seven. But I'm in the I'm
Speaker 1: in the men's league. Though, in the men's league, I'm yoking. Okay, alright,
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So that's what I'm saying. Like I look
Speaker 1: at Yokis and I'm like, sometimes, Bro, Yoki is just crazy, Bro,
Speaker 1: like this nig is not fast. Like and I'm looking
Speaker 1: at Yokas, I'm like, Yo, I can do that, and
Speaker 1: I hear I hear IRV and be like, Bro, I
Speaker 1: just sent him Yoki clips and stuff like this, and
Speaker 1: be like van stop, I'm actually working with a real
Speaker 1: NBA player. I can do But he told me, he said, Kyrie,
Speaker 1: and it's something that I even can't because people think
Speaker 1: they know about basketball, but they really don't know anything
Speaker 1: about basketball. A lot of people it's like Kyrie really
Speaker 1: just he's not even setting you up. He's just really
Speaker 1: reacting to whatever the whole game, whatever it is you do.
Speaker 1: He's going at full speed, just reacting and you don't
Speaker 1: even look right. I can't think of anybody that's been that.
Speaker 1: Maybe Steph has been that skilled. Steff is pretty like.
Speaker 1: I can't think of anybody that's skilled with him and
Speaker 1: one thing with them their basketball. I Q was through
Speaker 1: the rule. So it's mine, bro, Like this time, name
Speaker 1: is the most drop on this show. No I can play.
Speaker 1: We brought term on turn got some left person not
Speaker 1: a celebrity. Thoughts on the playoffs Laker fans and Nets fans,
Speaker 1: who you guys have? What are you interested in this?
Speaker 1: Uh seesons playoffs? Man, it's hard not to ride from
Speaker 1: my team. It's I just want the Lakers to play well.
Speaker 1: That's on your team that you on the chance um
Speaker 1: maddeling injury coming into the playoffs. I'm not getting my
Speaker 1: hopes that man. As as it's been bad, just know
Speaker 1: it's got the two players that hurt uh Tsunami, Hurricane.
Speaker 1: Anything can happen. They still got a chance. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's one of those things where, like you you,
Speaker 1: you can't count out Bron Like it's hard to ever
Speaker 1: kind of them out. I mean I've I've you know,
Speaker 1: every we've all watched him play for the last like
Speaker 1: ten years like a monster and just defy so many
Speaker 1: odds and come back in three one and do all
Speaker 1: the things that like you just you just you can't
Speaker 1: count them out. But I mean, father time, man, you can't.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, I don't gotta tell y'all like it's
Speaker 1: it's when you play that high level long enough, eventually
Speaker 1: your body is like enough in his prime, his whole career,
Speaker 1: which is insane. Yeah, And so I mean, I'm hoping
Speaker 1: we're not witnessing that, like him start to creep over
Speaker 1: that thing just yet. But you know, we all know
Speaker 1: it's coming. Holly Jane's wife said, he's setting it up.
Speaker 1: I'm hurt. I beat Steph And when he's setting up
Speaker 1: the home he's doing. I thought about that too. I
Speaker 1: was like, I wonder if he's just like bro. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't doubt he planned the injury game and he don't
Speaker 1: come back and just like he was catching lives and
Speaker 1: doing his old ship he was doing when he was nineteen.
Speaker 1: So Bron, is he gonna be straight? What about you? Man?
Speaker 1: Who are you? Who are you riding with? And what
Speaker 1: are you looking forward to in these playoffs? I think
Speaker 1: the Lakers. The Lakers are fine. Um. I don't think
Speaker 1: going on the road to win it's gonna be as
Speaker 1: big a deal this time because the arenas aren't full.
Speaker 1: So I think the Lakers are fine. I think, uh,
Speaker 1: it's really the Lakers aren't so much. The question, I
Speaker 1: think the question for me is what really do these
Speaker 1: other teams have? Is Phoenix legit? Is you tall legit?
Speaker 1: All the Cooper's legit? Like all these teams when they
Speaker 1: when push comes to shove, are they really ready to
Speaker 1: make deep playoff runs? You got to realize when the
Speaker 1: teams right now they're looking at the wounded Lakers and
Speaker 1: they got blood dripping right here to get them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm waiting. I do think though, have to have the
Speaker 1: Lakers as an eight or seven and they would be
Speaker 1: favorite and the favorite. That'd be crazy. And imagine them
Speaker 1: coming from a seven or eight seed to me in
Speaker 1: the Western Conference and m CPS, my guy there the
Speaker 1: two seed, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was
Speaker 1: a one eight or to seven upset in the playoffs
Speaker 1: this year. I don't think at the top from a
Speaker 1: conspirac standpoint, can really handle. You know, the meat of
Speaker 1: the pack has been there, at the top of the
Speaker 1: pack hasn't really been there. So I wouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 1: In the Eastern Conference, you guys like you guys like
Speaker 1: over there, the the Wizards have been interesting, like you
Speaker 1: know they I think they finished the season like pretty strong. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean the sixers is sixers and nets nets. To me,
Speaker 1: Milwaukee is the sleeper to me in the Eastern because
Speaker 1: they've flown under the radar. They've always been the one
Speaker 1: seed with you know, and I always last couple of
Speaker 1: years and having achieved that, but now they've been under
Speaker 1: the radar working on different lineups. Johannice is the months
Speaker 1: of Jannice can be that regular season guy in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: Holiday and twice. So this is a thing for me.
Speaker 1: Like in the East, obviously, if Brooklyn is healthy, Brooklyn
Speaker 1: is the favorite, right, but the East has some really
Speaker 1: interesting wild cards, like for example, Miami has the experience
Speaker 1: right Miami has the experience. Miami has guys who have
Speaker 1: been there. They just made a run. Yo. The Bucks
Speaker 1: have a kind of weird favorable matchup with the Nets.
Speaker 1: The Bucks can defend with the Nets and I'll scoring
Speaker 1: and I'll score them. So the Bucks, the Bucks, they
Speaker 1: don't have it not a favorable match up, but it's
Speaker 1: a weirdly good matchup for him, Holiday can be effective
Speaker 1: and slowing down, Kyrie, you know you can use Jannis
Speaker 1: a little bit on durant Um. I am not saying
Speaker 1: anybody's gonna stop those guys, but it looks like like
Speaker 1: on his face that they may be be able to
Speaker 1: compete with them, you know, in a series. For me,
Speaker 1: the interesting thing is how good is Joel E and B?
Speaker 1: M hm, Like, how good is Joel? And I know,
Speaker 1: I know he is a motherfucker, But like, is he
Speaker 1: is Joel E and B right now? Shock in ninety
Speaker 1: five or is he Shock in two thousand one? You
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Is he is he ready to
Speaker 1: take over? Shock has always been a dominant force, but
Speaker 1: at one point it was a fucking joke. It was
Speaker 1: a joke. Is Joel and be ready to take completely over?
Speaker 1: Because if he is really ready to be that guy.
Speaker 1: He's that guy down then like you you then then
Speaker 1: they're dangerous too. It's just hard to pick against. Oh,
Speaker 1: we haven't even mentioned my favorite team in the whole league.
Speaker 1: Now my favorite team in the whole league to me,
Speaker 1: the guy who was the league m v P like,
Speaker 1: I like, I love watching their next play man stop.
Speaker 1: Julius Randall is the I love watching the Knicks. I
Speaker 1: don't understanding what you originally from. I'm from Louisiana, bat Rouge,
Speaker 1: and how you get to have been a Laker fan
Speaker 1: because we lived out here for a couple of years,
Speaker 1: like a year and a half. I remember my dad
Speaker 1: had this contract and the guy they couldn't let my dad.
Speaker 1: I've had to ask you that they couldn't. Like seriously,
Speaker 1: my dad was a semi finish out here and he
Speaker 1: had this contract with this guy and the guy was like, look,
Speaker 1: I can't meet that number. But my brother just gave
Speaker 1: me some Laker tacks and my dad's like the game
Speaker 1: and we go see the Laker game. I'm looking around
Speaker 1: this bitch, I'm like I'm sitting there. I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: is that our senior hall? And my dad was like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: famous people come to these games. I'm like, Yo, this
Speaker 1: ship is a amazing why would you be And we
Speaker 1: didn't have a team. So I've been on the Lakers, man,
Speaker 1: I don't funk that people always do that to me.
Speaker 1: I suffered with the Lakers through the down three era.
Speaker 1: I suffered. I suffer through the Lakers. I was the
Speaker 1: Robert Sackray era when we when we like had like
Speaker 1: fucking you know, D'Angelo Russell was on. Yeah, I was like,
Speaker 1: shout out D'Angelo Russell. I'm not but you know that
Speaker 1: whole like I was with them. So yeah, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: a Laker fan, but the Knicks. But I love watching
Speaker 1: the Rows do his thing, bro, I love watching I
Speaker 1: love watching these guys and they play so in spot much.
Speaker 1: You don't speke much for the Knicks in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: I don't spec gonna come out of the East, but
Speaker 1: they're not gonna come out there. It might be in
Speaker 1: the taining to watch and play a couple of games,
Speaker 1: but you know, let's slow down now. Shout out to
Speaker 1: coach TIBs though great turnaround, quick hitters man. First thing
Speaker 1: to come to mind. And you guys are collaboring on
Speaker 1: some of these answers. So together your top five artists music? Music,
Speaker 1: Oh shit, just in any genre? Uh Rihanna, Hove, Drake,
Speaker 1: fred o'bang, Okay, Barrouge, Louisiana, look at it by time
Speaker 1: go home, fred o'bang, thank you for going home. Um,
Speaker 1: Tam and Paula. Who Tam and Paula? You only y'all
Speaker 1: listen to Tam and Paula. I'm not familiar. I'm not familiar.
Speaker 1: I listened to listen to Tam Pola in your life,
Speaker 1: Broo you got, I'm gonna go. Kendrick Cole, Drake, Frank
Speaker 1: and Ja Okay. Top fives more most impactful films traightmon
Speaker 1: impact for films um in no particular order. I'm gonna say, uh,
Speaker 1: do the right thing, Boys in the Hood, The Godfather, Moonlight,
Speaker 1: um and uh oh God, what's the first fifth one? Um?
Speaker 1: And to this and Strangers. Yes, if you ever do
Speaker 1: a black version of Godfather, I'm getting into the business
Speaker 1: Matt walking me in so I will be perfect for
Speaker 1: that movie. Man. If you just sit at any game
Speaker 1: court side in NBA history, what game would it be? Oh?
Speaker 1: Ship the Pointer? Yeah, Toronto. I don't give a fuck
Speaker 1: if we well know if how good we work as
Speaker 1: we did win the game man to watch that great
Speaker 1: cook like that and the narrative like the we were down,
Speaker 1: Kobe did what he had to do to win. So
Speaker 1: that would be the one that that There were games
Speaker 1: that like obviously see you know, bigger games and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. But to watch him do that, you could
Speaker 1: be in any movie set ever to see how it unfolded.
Speaker 1: What movie would it be? Thank you, matt Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's two movies in my head and I'm having a
Speaker 1: hard time picking one because it would either have to
Speaker 1: be Do the Right Thing or The Guy Father too.
Speaker 1: Second one, man would be Reservoir Dogs. That would be
Speaker 1: a good one. You know. You know it's funny you
Speaker 1: said that was just like a movie. No, it's because
Speaker 1: I watched Reservoir Dogs recently. And you know, Lawrence bend
Speaker 1: is one of our producers. Shout out to Lawrence and
Speaker 1: I and I and I text him about this and
Speaker 1: I'm always very blunt about it with him. That movie
Speaker 1: Don't hold up, Man, don't hold ups, don't hold up.
Speaker 1: You can't predict what's gonna happen. Look, man, there is
Speaker 1: so many absolutely unnecessary niggas and reservoir dogs. It is unwatchable.
Speaker 1: What's Who's Go watch the first minutes, Go watch the
Speaker 1: first twenty minutes the reservod dolls today, and tell me
Speaker 1: after you watch it that you're not going You can't
Speaker 1: pick out five niggas that don't need to be in
Speaker 1: the script, and any nigga that's not sad by nigga
Speaker 1: in the movie not supposed to be in the script?
Speaker 1: What you mean? That's really just don't it just it
Speaker 1: don't hold up to me, man, It don't hold up
Speaker 1: to me. But and I say that as a person
Speaker 1: who loved that movie and hadn't watched it for in
Speaker 1: a long time, and like last month I put it on.
Speaker 1: Go damn, man, this just feels like gratuitous in a
Speaker 1: way that I'm not really sure about it anymore. And
Speaker 1: but no man shout out then five dinner guests dead
Speaker 1: or alives. Okay, you know this is gonna be This's
Speaker 1: gonna be all the place tough. So it's like, uh so,
Speaker 1: uh Ella Baker Trump fans, who was Ella Baker? Ella
Speaker 1: Baker is one of the most not talked about people
Speaker 1: in black his stores because she's a black woman, that
Speaker 1: was very vital in the founding of Snick and was
Speaker 1: like a mentor to John Lewis and Stoken Carmichael and
Speaker 1: guys like that. She's just like amazing. So I hope
Speaker 1: to bring her story out to the masses one day.
Speaker 1: So I would say Ellen Baker. Damn, it's a tough question.
Speaker 1: Marvin Gaye. I think Marvin gay had like an incredible life.
Speaker 1: Barack Obama, you know, I want to meet Barack Obama.
Speaker 1: I've never met Barack Obama before. Uh, Stanley Kubrick. And
Speaker 1: probably James Baldwin. Probably James Baldwin. Interesting, Yeah, probably James
Speaker 1: bald h I would definitely say Baldwin. He's on my
Speaker 1: shirt right now. That's like like one of my one
Speaker 1: of my gods. Obama, Um, for sure. Malcolm, Yeah, my favorite.
Speaker 1: His birthday yesterday, Malcolm and Martin. You know why, because
Speaker 1: like that would be interesting conversation just to like contextualize
Speaker 1: that a little from a little alcohol and see what happened.
Speaker 1: And then there's just like really to get Martin too
Speaker 1: drunk work, and then I think like maybe to really
Speaker 1: like like mix it up. I throw a hove in there, Okay,
Speaker 1: just because I just imagine just cut fucking crazy. That
Speaker 1: would be there's questions for both of y'all. Who do
Speaker 1: y'all want to see on this show. I want to
Speaker 1: see y'll rapp it Obama, man, that would be dopeest
Speaker 1: luck to that's I want to I want to see that.
Speaker 1: That would be like the Shaun King episode. Me. I
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't say much as to be sitting there listening.
Speaker 1: I gotta smoke, though, I'm sure he did. You just
Speaker 1: smoke squaws. Yeah, he's just like used to smoke trees.
Speaker 1: I gotta smoke. I want to just see he got
Speaker 1: them purple lips showtime he got I know what smoking
Speaker 1: lips look like. Not at at ten times, but not
Speaker 1: at times. I can tell you I'll smoke of Byes lips,
Speaker 1: but nine purple. That's when I knew Jack. I traded
Speaker 1: to the Warriors. I looked at you, I knew he smoked.
Speaker 1: I was like, we're gonna get along just fine. And
Speaker 1: look at us now years later anyway, man, fellas, we
Speaker 1: appreciate your time. Thank you man, Congratulations on the Oscar
Speaker 1: and all the success and hopefully it opens plenty of
Speaker 1: doors for you guys and your team. Question for it's
Speaker 1: what basketball question. If the Warriors get in as a
Speaker 1: A C right in a seven game series between this
Speaker 1: these A C Warriors and that we believe Warriors, if
Speaker 1: they got Clay and all them, I don't know this
Speaker 1: this team right now, this team right now, Yeah, we
Speaker 1: got him. We might be able to get there. No Clay, No, Katie,
Speaker 1: we got him. A good question. If they ain't got Clay,
Speaker 1: we the show got him. So no, I'm talking about
Speaker 1: this eight ceed Warrior. We got them versus the a C.
Speaker 1: We believe we would trap the step everywhere and then
Speaker 1: we would just be able to control everybody we got
Speaker 1: by five people, we can throw us Steff, you're playing
Speaker 1: in this era now, Yeah we're good. Okay, we step
Speaker 1: kind of basketball though we shot a bunch of three
Speaker 1: we started that. All right. That's a great question. Just
Speaker 1: still they just step. You don't know what Steph gonna do.
Speaker 1: We gotta when you had Clay to the mix. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't get we ain't got a chance of you
Speaker 1: and Clay don't. We don't want to go to the game.
Speaker 1: Had hurt with this. This team would just I like
Speaker 1: our chance. They got some young sters now that yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a fan. I'm talk about this a c right here.
Speaker 1: No wine, but I know it's not eighth verse eight,
Speaker 1: eight versus eight. No wines. Gotta get chance. Nobody got
Speaker 1: a good chance. Okay, I like that. Good question. Well
Speaker 1: that's a wrap. All the Smoke Trade one Free Van
Speaker 1: Leathan Oscar Award winners. Congrats again, fellas. You can catch
Speaker 1: us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the Heart platform Black Effects.
Speaker 1: We'll see you all next week. This is all a Smoke,
Speaker 1: a production of The Black Effect and our Heart Radio
Speaker 1: in partnership with Showtime