1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: middle income families need help. We're coming out of COVID nineteen. 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: You want to keep our economy strong. When you have 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: an infrastructure build, there's spin off on back, there's spinofftion 5 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: cities from towns all across America. Bloomberg Sound on Politics, 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: Policy and Perspective from DC's top name. So we need 7 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: to incentivize the manufacturing of chips in America. I do 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: believe the acting of date and effective, but I think 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: what government's role is to share the client, share the fact, 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: share the benefits. Schloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on 11 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for joining us as we join you 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: live from the nation's capital, which is looking a little 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: bit like Detroit today. Cars park on the south lawn 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: as the White House invests in electric vehicles made by 15 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: the Big three. If I can still call them that, 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: are they still well? Four GM, Chrysler and It's company. 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: It doesn't sound as good a goal set by the 18 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,559 Speaker 1: administration half of all court cars sold in the US 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 1: to be electric vehicles by the year. We'll talk about 20 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,559 Speaker 1: it with someone who was there today with Joe Biden. 21 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: That would be Congressman Dan Kelty, Democrat from Michigan, and 22 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,199 Speaker 1: we'll bring it to the panel. Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie 23 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: she and Zano and Rick Davis or with us today 24 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: and later we'll update the winding road of infrastructure. As 25 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: the Senate's August recess looms. We have a score on 26 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: the bill. Thank you for joining us this Thursday. As 27 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: the White House gets charged up about e VS, I'm 28 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: signing an executive order setting out a target of of 29 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: all passenger vehicles sold by will be electric and set 30 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: an emotion on all out effort. President Biden a short 31 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: time ago on the South Lawn where he was backed 32 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: by a couple of electric vehicles, including a jeep. He 33 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: actually took it for a spin around the driveway, no 34 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: donuts as the Big three c e O s looked on. 35 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: I'm going with Big three for the sake of this hour. 36 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: Forgive me along with the night At auto workers who 37 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: were there too. And joining us to talk about the 38 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: impact of the President's policy on business is Congressman Dan Kildy, 39 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: a Democrat from Michigan, who is there for the event today. Congressman, welcome, 40 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,399 Speaker 1: It's good to have you how important is this administration 41 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: goal when these companies were already on a path to 42 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: go all electric in the coming years. Does this advance 43 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: that timeline? I think it does. And I think what 44 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: it also does it helps us policymakers have a target 45 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: that we can aim for when we're enacting policy intended 46 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: to get us there. What the President laid out was 47 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: the target, and I think it's the right one. What 48 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: we have to do is respond with a series of 49 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: investment credits and incentives to get us there so that 50 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: the American worker, the American manufacturer can actually be the 51 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: beneficiary of the transition to electrification. It's going to happen. 52 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: The question is are we going to be consumers of 53 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: foreign produced electric vehicles or are we going to make 54 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: them here? And that's why we need to act to 55 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: make sure that we accelerate the target, you know, And and 56 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: and I think the President set it out for us, 57 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: and it will be faster than what would happen if 58 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: it were just left to the and I call them 59 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: the Big three too as well. But we're just left 60 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: to the Big three. I'll tell you what, if you're 61 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: on a speaker phone, Congressman, I'd love for you to 62 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: pick up the handset if it's possible, or just because 63 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: I have a couple of questions, Uh, to really dig 64 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: into this with you. We need more charging infrastructure is 65 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: one thing we've been hearing a lot before we can 66 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: convert the whole country to electric. Is there enough money 67 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: set aside in the infrastructure plan for that or does 68 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: the White House have bigger plans when it comes to 69 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: the chargers that we're going to need to run these cars. Well, 70 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: I do think we need more charging investment. In what 71 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: we see in the Senate Bipartisan Infrastructure Plan, it's a 72 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: step in the right direction. Don't get me wrong. It's 73 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: seven and a half billion dollars, but it's about half 74 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: of what we think we need to make sure that 75 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 1: as people purchase those vehics, holes we reduce the anxiety 76 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: they have about being able to get where they want 77 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: to go without being able to charge. So what do 78 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: we need? I mean, this is something that is going 79 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: from boutique to mainstream, and I suspect this might actually 80 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: be the biggest part of the job, setting up the 81 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: charging infrastructures. It's a big part of it. What we 82 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: think we need is about five hundred thousand charging stations 83 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: across the country. And you know, of course, at some 84 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: point and hopefully that the very near future, private industry 85 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: takes over and makes this happen, because that's the way 86 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: we're going to get to scale. But in order to 87 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: prime the pump, we believe that we do need to 88 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: have some public investment in charging infrastructure that will accelerate 89 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: that target that the President laid out today. The President 90 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: spoke more to that today on the South Lawn. We 91 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: need automakers and other companies to keep investing in America. 92 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: We need them not to take the benefits of our 93 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: public investments and expand electric vehicles and battery manufacturing production abroad. 94 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: We need you to deepen your partnership with the u 95 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: a W. Continue to pay good wages, support local communities 96 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: across the country. That's why I'm so proud the u 97 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: a W is standing here today as well. Big part 98 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: of the event today Congressman had to do with labor. 99 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: He was speaking directly the President, speaking directly to the 100 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: executives from these companies as you just heard, asking them 101 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: to keep it here, keep the battery manufacturing and other 102 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: investments here in the US, but also to do it 103 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: in partnership with the United Auto Workers. It was noted today, Congressman, 104 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: that Tesla, for instance, was not there. How much of 105 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: this has to do with organized labor specifically getting this 106 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 1: work done well. I think it's a really important piece 107 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: of it, because if we are going to make this transition, 108 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: we have to do it in a way that American 109 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: workers are rewarded. I think one potential criticism of the 110 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: past credit that intended to support higher income individuals purchasing 111 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: higher value of vehicles. The way we're rewriting the consumer 112 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 1: incentives is to focus on domestic production of vehicles that 113 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: are priced for middle income earners in a way that 114 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: essentially small the democratizes the electrification of our fleet of 115 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: vehicles and makes some far more accessible to regular workers, 116 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: but also importantly emphasizing domestic production that works for the 117 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: American worker and not just for a consumer who wants 118 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: to buy a very high priced vehicle. We're talking with 119 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: Congressman Dan Kilde of Michigan. Is this goal at the 120 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: mercy of supply chains? Congressman, and I ask you that, 121 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: because we've been hearing a lot about shortages lately. You 122 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: can't make all these evs, cars and trucks without computer chips, 123 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: without copper, nickel, and a lot of other materials that 124 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: have been in short supply. There's no question if we 125 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: can address the supply chain issues, we're going to fall short. Uh. 126 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: You know, whether it is these chips that we need 127 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: to have or battery production, the essential supply chain has 128 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: to be re shored here for the American manufacturing base. 129 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: And frankly, um, we're paying it. We're paying a pretty 130 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: heavy price for the fact that we have not done 131 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: that over the last many decades. So now we have 132 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: a chance to retool manufacturing, retool automobile production, which is 133 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: the heart of manufacturing, around a new designed vehicle and 134 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: a new supply chain. And if we miss the opportunity 135 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: to make sure that that supply chain is an American 136 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: supply chain, not only will we short change the American worker, 137 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: but we put ourselves still in the position of being 138 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: at the mercy of foreign supply chain. And look at 139 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: what's happening right now with chips. We have vehicles that 140 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: are being built with everything except the microchips that are 141 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: required to make those things go. And of course you 142 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: can't sell a vehicle that won't go and and this 143 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: is this is really an in a big part of 144 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: the approach that we're trying to take with electrification. Yeah, 145 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: and you can't pay workers unless they're on the job, right, 146 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: You've seen this happen in your state. GM and Ford 147 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: both have recently had to suspend manufacturing production, you know, 148 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: for a week here, a week there because of items 149 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: specifically semiconductors running into short supply. Are we overpromising, I 150 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: guess is the question I'm walking up to here, Congressman. 151 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: With a goal that's so ambitious, yet we don't have 152 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: the pieces to make these products. I think we can 153 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: do it. And this is the thing I like about 154 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: sort of the spirit of our country, which sometimes we 155 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: lose track of. We set ambitious goals and we organize 156 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: ourselves to get there. We have the workforce, we have 157 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: the demand. Even on the consumer side, we have the demand. 158 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: What we need to do is have a set of 159 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: policies that is biased in the favor of American production, 160 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: and that means tax policy, infrastructure policy, the whole thing. 161 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: If we do this, and this is why we've been 162 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: so focused on making sure that this infrastructure legislation addresses 163 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: all these moving parts. If we do this nine years, 164 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: ten years from now, when you know the President's goal 165 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: is staring us in the face, I think we'll be 166 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: able to look back and say we did the things 167 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: we had to do to get there. I believe, you know, 168 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: it may seem a little Pollyanna, but I still believe 169 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: in the incredible capacity to produce in this country if 170 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: we organize ourselves around a goal. And that's why I 171 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: was so happy the President put an aggressive goal out there. 172 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: I know you serve on ways and means you're a 173 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: deputy with in the House of Congressmen you mentioned infrastructure. 174 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,599 Speaker 1: Is the House going to seek major changes to the 175 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: bipartisan plan when it comes next door, Well, we'll have 176 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: to see what's in it, number one. And secondly, if 177 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: we can get the other part this record stilly Asian package, 178 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: the sort of the budget side of this question, to 179 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: include some of the financial aspects of what we're trying 180 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: to do, then I think we may not need to 181 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: make big changes. But you know, I've spoken to Chairman 182 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: Peter DeFazio, who chairs our Transportation and Infrastructure Committee here. 183 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: He's quite concerned with what the Senate did to the 184 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: product that we sent over there. Um, we'll have to 185 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: see what their final product looks like. I spoke to 186 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: a couple of the senators today. They seem to believe 187 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: they're going to be able to move this thing in 188 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: the next couple of days. What it looks like is 189 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: going to be a big question for us as to 190 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: whether we need to make big changes or if we 191 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: can accept what they send us and then put the 192 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: other pieces that we think are important into the reconciliation bill. Well, 193 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: you are or other Democrats you work with in the 194 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: House promised to vote against that bipartisan bill. If if 195 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: you don't see what you want, or will you seek 196 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: the changes in reconciliation, that will be an opportunity or 197 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: or otherwise to set out the goals and the dollar 198 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: signs you're looking for here. Yeah, I think my my 199 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: tendency is to embrace the compromise if it doesn't compromise 200 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: my principles, and if it means we're making progress. That's 201 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: what this is supposed to be about. So I'm more 202 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: inclined to say, let's look at what they have, if 203 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: we can put the other pieces together, expand on what 204 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: they've done in the reconciliation process and embrace the chance 205 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: to be bipartisan. Then we should do that. Congressman Dan Kilty, 206 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: Democrat from Michigan, we thank you for spending some time 207 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: with us on Bloomberg Radio. Coming up, we take a 208 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: little ride with the panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie she 209 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: and Zano and Rick Davis have ideas on this. We'll 210 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: discuss the politics of evs. You know, we'll bring up 211 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: infrastructure later. All in the absence of Elon, stay with us. 212 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: We'll check markets and traffic. Coming up. I'm Joe Matthew. 213 00:11:53,520 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. H This is Bloomberg Sound On with 214 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: Joe Mapew on Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for spending part of 215 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: your Thursday with us. Thanks for joining us so Bloomberg 216 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: Sound On as we broadcast from the nation's capital. And 217 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: to be fair, there were more cars than jeeps on 218 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: the lawn today at the White House. Several vehicles arrayed 219 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: behind Joe Biden as I read on the terminal, including 220 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: the Ford f one fifty lightning. I feel like I 221 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: should do this properly with the south lawn music. Here 222 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: we go. There was a Ford F one fifty lightning, 223 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: a Chevy Vault, make that Bolt Jeep Wrangler Limited Rubicon, 224 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: that's the one he drove, the GMC Hummer Eve and 225 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: a ford E Transit van. I think it would have 226 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: been kind of funny if he drove the van. That's 227 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: just me. But Joe Biden did take the vehicle for 228 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: a spin around the driveway and it looked like he 229 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: had a pretty great time. Recalling the moment when Donald 230 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: Trump got into the cab of the mac truck there 231 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 1: in the driveway kind of mind driving. So imagine if 232 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: you ran what is arguably the most important pioneering electric 233 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: vehicle company the world has ever known, and you were 234 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: not invited to today's big electric vehicle event at the 235 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: White House. No music for you. I'm of course talking 236 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: about Elon Musk, who tweets quote, Yeah, it seems odd 237 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 1: Tesla wasn't invited, and you better believe White House Press 238 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: Secretary Jensaki was asked about it during today's briefing. We 239 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 1: of course welcome the efforts of all automakers who recognize 240 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: the potential of an electric vehicle future and support efforts 241 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: that will help reach the President's goal, and certainly Tesla 242 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: is one of those companies. Today it's the three largest 243 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: employers of the United Auto Workers and the U a 244 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: W president who will stand with President Biden as he 245 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: announces his ambitious new target. Ah, it was about the union, 246 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: as reporters continued, So it's not because Tesla is a 247 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: non union shop. Well, these are the three largest employers 248 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 1: of the United Auto Workers. So dry your own conclusions, 249 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: try your own conclusions. Well. White House economic advisor Heather 250 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: Bruschet tweets gotta say there are many things that bring 251 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: me joy about being able to serve in Biden's White House. 252 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: This is thing one unions, And so we bring in 253 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: the panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeannie she and Zano and 254 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: Rick Davis Genie. Was that an oversight or good politics 255 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: for a president who embraces organized labor. I'm still listening 256 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: to that music in my ear, loving it. Joe. Um, 257 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: you know, I thought the White House really missed a 258 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: moment here to being inclusive. And so I think, you know, 259 00:14:53,800 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: as Jensaki said, dry your own conclusions, and we have. Rick, 260 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: I've been both. I've worked in a union and I 261 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: have worked in non union shops. I was largely the 262 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: same guy in both instances. What kind of a message 263 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: does it send to to all of America? Well, I 264 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: think certainly to the part of America that is right 265 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: to work, and uh, the vast majority of America, I 266 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: might add, Uh, it's basically an exclusive message. Is it 267 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: really about promoting climate security and and evs? Or is 268 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: it about expanding the base of the unions who were 269 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: predominantly democratic workers. I think he really didn't do himself 270 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: any uh favors by politicizing this event. Uh makes total 271 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: sense to want to have of these vehicles by being 272 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: um not fossil fuel, but like to basically say that 273 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: the attendance is going to be drawn up by the 274 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: United Auto Workers Is is I think, a real slap 275 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: to workers who are not members of the unions but 276 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: are doing yeoman's work producing most of the evs in 277 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: this country. What do you think about the planetself? Rick? 278 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: You seem to approve of a goal, but a lot 279 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: has to come behind this. Not only do you need 280 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: the workers, and well we haven't had them in many 281 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: cases over the last year since COVID. Many think that 282 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: will change, but we also need the supplies. And I 283 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: was talking about this with the congressman building batteries takes 284 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: materials that we can't get right now. Building these e 285 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: vs require semiconductors that are not available. Is is it 286 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: risky to put out a goal like this knowing what 287 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: the supply chains look like? Yeah? I do think that 288 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: the Congressman made a good point, right, is that the 289 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: White House sets a standard. They're not the ones who 290 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: are going to actually acquire any of these assets, but 291 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: they need to set a standard to say, hey, we 292 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: would like the Corporate America who developed these programs to 293 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: immediately start to put into high gear what they can 294 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: do to meet my demands. My demands being I want 295 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: to be evs. And as I understand that he has 296 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 1: also and started, the President is also instructing the e 297 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: p A to start formula forming rulemaking that will help 298 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: facilitate that. So in addition to setting a standard, he's 299 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,479 Speaker 1: putting rules in place. But it's going to be up 300 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 1: to Corporate America to then take the investment to as 301 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: the Congressman say, creates supply chains that are reassured. I 302 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: love that that phrase. It's my new favorite thing. We 303 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: want to be reassured and uh and so uh that's 304 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 1: still yet to be done. And leaving a bunch of 305 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: the companies out of this conversation who are doing most 306 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: of that reshoring doesn't seem to be a consistent message. 307 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: We only have thirty seconds. Genie reassuring, though, is good 308 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,719 Speaker 1: politics for this president, right He's calling on these companies 309 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: to do the work here, not overseas. May have lost 310 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: Jennie for now, but we will get her back. That's 311 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: my promise to you. And Rick's gonna stay here as 312 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: we turn next to the infrastructure debate. These are all connected, 313 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: you know, Senators motivated by a new sense of urgency 314 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: if you notice, it's called recess. And we've got a 315 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 1: score on the bill, hard news that we'll talk about 316 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: with Bloomberg. Government's Jack Fitzpatrick. Only here on sound Off. 317 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg broadcasting live from our 318 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: nation's capital, Bloomberg to New York, Bloomberg eleven, Frio to 319 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: San Francisco, Bloomberg nine six to the country, Sirius XM 320 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: Channel one and around the globe, the Bloomberg Business app 321 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Sound On 322 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew. We have a score on infrastructure. The 323 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: Congressional Budget Office has picked through all pages. Someone had 324 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: to read it, and we'll look at their analysis and 325 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: what this bill would mean, specifically for the deficit coming 326 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 1: up with Bloomberg Government's Jack Fitzpatrick. Welcome to sound On 327 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 1: for Thursday, where we now know the score. I mean 328 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: that literally today the score from the Congressional Budget Office 329 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,479 Speaker 1: on the bipartisan infrastructure bill moving through the Senate. One 330 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: of the most important steps here on the road to 331 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 1: this becoming law. That's why so many members said they 332 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: couldn't say if they would vote for it until they 333 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: could read it and until it was scored. Well, here 334 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: we are, and a good time to talk with Bloomberg 335 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: Government's Jack Fitzpatrick. Of course, no stranger to this microphone. Jack, Welcome. 336 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: What did we learn today from the CBO. Yeah, well, 337 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: basically we learned that this is not fully paid for. 338 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 1: It's roughly halfway paid for according to the way CBO 339 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: scores that there are going to be some arguments over 340 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: that more or less. Uh. This is so Ultimately they 341 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: said this is going to add two hundred fifty six 342 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: BILLI into the deficit. Uh. Their best guests over the 343 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: decade is this roughly increases spending overall by three billion 344 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 1: or so, and then by their measures, it would raise 345 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: about fifty billion dollars in revenue. That gets to some 346 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: of the dynamics scoring stuff that we've talked about before. 347 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: It can be a little hard to project. I haven't 348 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: heard anything about this really changing a bunch of people's minds. 349 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: In fact, I would say this week, the bigger story 350 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: so far in how this has played out in the 351 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: Senate is that a lot of members have had enough 352 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: chances to offer amendments on stuff, and they feel like 353 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: they've had a chance to sort of work on the bill. Uh. 354 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 1: So we could end up seeing another procedural vote maybe 355 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: later tonight. Uh. And it it doesn't seem like this 356 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 1: is off the tracks, even though this is, according to 357 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: the CBO, only about halfway paid for. Uh. Nothing has 358 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: gone terribly wrong here on Capitol Hill, at least not yet. 359 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 1: You mentioned the CBO's methodology here. The way they calculate this, 360 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: I presume jack is different than what the White House 361 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: and what Democrats in the Senate are presenting. Is it 362 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: apples and oranges? Or are we talking bad math on? On? 363 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,959 Speaker 1: Behalf of those who wrote the bill, Well, when you 364 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: try to game out the effects of a bill over 365 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: the course of a decade, and you ask yourself what 366 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: the spending effects would be on g d P, and 367 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: then what the GDP growth effects would be on tax revenues. 368 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 1: You could you could argue everything is bad math. So 369 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: we were right to zero in on that last week, 370 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: right that was that was the ambiguous part of of 371 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: the pay force. Essentially, the growth that this bill would 372 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: create is that would pay for itself. That's that's a 373 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: very difficult thing to quantify. It's extremely difficult to quantify. 374 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: And generally, when you hear lawmakers saying the growth is 375 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: going to pay for itself, that's not actually true. We 376 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: heard that from Republicans on their tax bill. We heard 377 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: significant expectations for growth in this bill. You know, it's 378 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: it might be good news that this says it's halfway 379 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: paid for, because it probably could have been worse. Some 380 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: of the papers were somewhat gimmicky, and if you're looking 381 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: for news on tax increases, real revenue raisers, you're probably 382 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: gonna have to wait until the next big bill that 383 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: Democrats are working on, because this was one they really 384 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: didn't want to get into. Difficult pay force. How about 385 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: the money already spents COVID relief funds and so forth. 386 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: The CBO acknowledge that as new money when it comes 387 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: to this bill, I believe that goes into the pot 388 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: of money that they consider reduced direct spending. So when 389 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: I mentioned about three billion increase in spending, what they're 390 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: actually talking as talking about is four billion increased in 391 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: spending in terms of what they want to do on infrastructure. 392 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,959 Speaker 1: And then they counted up a variety of measures that 393 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: include that that reduced others spending by a d ten billions, 394 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: so that you know, it's a big enough bill so 395 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: that when you try to say how much is this spending, 396 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: it's it's quite complicated, but yes, that is. It also 397 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: a significant pay for UH and that that's a sort 398 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: of a separate debate among economists than the dynamic scoring. 399 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: But yes, that played into it, and that's one reason 400 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: it's not an even bigger deficit add or over the 401 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: course of the next decade. See, this is why we 402 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: needed to talk to Jack today. Now you mentioned a 403 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: potential vote tonight. We've heard that there are also reports 404 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: out there today that you've likely seen, Jack, that senators 405 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,719 Speaker 1: are are essentially, uh, discussing how they can move this 406 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: whole thing on a fast track and get to their 407 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: August recess on time. I presume that would mean waiting 408 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: on reconciliation until they come back in September. But what 409 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: might happen in the next couple of days. Well, I 410 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: have not argard that they're actually gonna wait on that 411 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: first step on reconciliation. Keep in mind, the reconciliation process 412 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: of a two step process plan that they have laid 413 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: out is in the very near future, immediately after finishing infrastructure, 414 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: do the first part where they put out the outline 415 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: the budget resolution that instructs at ease on what to 416 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: work on. They would vote on that, and then later 417 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: in the year they'd wrap up work on the bill. Uh. 418 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: It sounds like they're still going to end up doing that. 419 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: When you say leave on time, who knows what on 420 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,640 Speaker 1: time is that? You know, they could end up holding 421 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: a weekend vote on infrastructure and maybe early next week 422 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: to reconciliation, or at least the first half of it. 423 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: But there's going to be a significant vote upcoming on 424 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: the first part of the reconciliation stuff before they leave, 425 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: I think, And then we get a couple of weeks 426 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: to think about it. These guys can all go home, 427 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: guys and gals, and they can be yelled at or 428 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: cheered I guess by their constituents when they get into 429 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: town hall meetings. It sounds though, like Jack, based on 430 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: what you said, the amendment process is rapping or is 431 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: it done. It's not entirely done. There are a couple 432 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: more fairly substantive ones that we know about. One would 433 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: narrow down some of the requirements on cryptocurrency UH information 434 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: revenue UH information that they give to the i R 435 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: s UH that there were some provisions that got the 436 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: criticism I believe even by Jack Dorsey and some high 437 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: profile people who said that it was overexpansive. Um. There's 438 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: another one that would increase the flexibility of states to 439 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: use their COVID money on infrastructure, and of course that 440 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: could affect the score as well. So we may see 441 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: another score if they keep amending this. But it sounds 442 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: like they're going to have a couple more amendments, including those, 443 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 1: and then maybe tonight we could see that procedural vote 444 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: before a final vote potentially over the weekend or maybe 445 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 1: early next week. Sounds like nothing that would change at 446 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: least the headline numbers though, or or the overall frust 447 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: of the bill. Is that fair to say, Yeah, they're 448 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: basically sticking with the same general bill. They're making tweaks. 449 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: This amendment process kind of allows senators to say, hey, 450 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,679 Speaker 1: I had a chance to get my word in uh, 451 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: and that can help them keep their sixty votes or 452 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: they had sixty seven originally. Um, there's nothing earth shattering 453 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: in these amendments. I would say, basically the bill that 454 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: you heard about is on track to probably get sixty 455 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: votes when they end up holding the vote. Great work, 456 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: as always from Bloomberg. Government's Jack Fitzpatrick with us on 457 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg sound On. Coming up, we hear from the panel 458 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: a bit on infrastructure. Will also talk today about what 459 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: we kept hearing COVID mandates and the reopening. Here more 460 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: of what the Education Secretary Secretary had to say about 461 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: your child going back to school. I'm Joe Matthew. This 462 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg so On with Joe Matthew 463 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. The first day of school is fast approaching, 464 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: is only a couple of weeks away in some areas, 465 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: and of course the CDC is recommending that kids wear 466 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: masks in class well, everyone, for that matter, were masks 467 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: in classrooms, which is not going over well in some 468 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: states like Florida and Texas, whose governors are threatening to 469 00:26:54,080 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: pull funding from schools considering mask mandates for kids. Enter 470 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 1: Education Secretary Miguel Cardona today at the White House, I'm 471 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: worried that decisions that are being made that are not 472 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: putting students at the center and student health and safety 473 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: at the center, is going to be why schools may 474 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: be disrupted. So we know what to do. You know, 475 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,719 Speaker 1: don't be the reason why schools are disrupted because of 476 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: the politicization of this effort to reopen schools. We know 477 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: what works, don't be the reason why schools are interrupted. 478 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: Referring apparently to Texas, Governor Greg Abbott, for starters, signed 479 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: an executive order last week prohibiting local governments in that 480 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: state from enacting vaccine requirements or mask mandates. The following day, 481 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: Florida's governor Rhonda Santis signed an order allowing Florida's education 482 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: officials to withhold money from school boards that impose mask 483 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: mandates and violation of the new rules. And of course, 484 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: well that's gotten into a whole back and forth with 485 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: Governor Rhonda Santis and Joe Biden. After President Biden said 486 00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: the Santis get out of the way. That was the 487 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: term he used in way. That started a whole back 488 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: and forth. Here's the governor of Florida speaking back to 489 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 1: the President of the United States. If you are trying 490 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: to lock people down, I am standing in your way, 491 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: and I'm standing for the people of Florida. So why 492 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: don't you do your job? Why don't you get this 493 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 1: border secure? And until you do that, I don't want 494 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: to hear a blip about COVID from you. Thank you 495 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: talk from the governor of Florida, who just a couple 496 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: of weeks ago was sitting side by side with Joe 497 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: Biden and the First Lady also the first Lady of Florida. 498 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: After that building came down in serve side. But politics 499 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: are back. White House Press Secretary Jensaki was asked about it. 500 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: It is factual, and it is a fact and data 501 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: that you all are aware of that of hospitalizations in 502 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: the country are in Florida. It is also a fact 503 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: that the governor has taken steps that are count counter 504 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: to public health recommendations. So we're here to state the acts. Frankly, 505 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: our view is that this is too serious, deadly serious 506 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: to be doing partisan name calling. Uh, that's what we're 507 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: not doing here. All the while, corporate America continues to 508 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: move in the direction of masks and vaccines. Black Rock, 509 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: you might have heard, and Wells Fargo are now pushing 510 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: their return to office plants back a month too early October. 511 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: Black Rock will allow workers to choose whether or not 512 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: to come into their offices through the first According to 513 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: a memo, Wells Fargo will begin bringing back staffers, as 514 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: I read on the Bloomberg have been working remotely starting 515 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: October four instead of the beginning of September. So here 516 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: we go again, with the world shifting slightly under our 517 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: feet thanks to the virus. We're joined, of course, by 518 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: the panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeannie she and Zano and 519 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: Rick Davis. Rick. This kind of drama doesn't have a 520 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: lot to do with policy, but it does have a 521 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: lot to do with the confidence people have going back 522 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: to work or school. How is this to get this 523 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: kind of guidance from the Education secretary? Yeah, I think 524 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: it's actually a really bad thing. That everybody is using 525 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: this kind of political baiting UH to talk about a 526 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: public health crisis. I mean, families need confidence that their 527 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: schools are going to reopen, that their children are going 528 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: to be able to get to school in a safe way, 529 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: and then they can go back to work because part 530 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: of the work deficit that we're experiencing our parents who 531 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: aren't sure whether their kids are actually going to be 532 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,719 Speaker 1: able to attend school this year. So I think throwing 533 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: out these kind of political attacks is counterproductive to adding 534 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: stability and understanding as to what to expect in the future. 535 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: Even though the Delta virus is looking like it's pushing 536 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: back some of the start time for corporate America, I 537 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: think everybody wants to see education start on time. And 538 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: I think the same for teachers unions. UM. You know, 539 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: why in the world are they fighting a vaccine mandate. 540 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: They were someone some of the first people to be 541 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: given vaccines in America because how important it is that UM, 542 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: that we have UH safe schools, and yet union after union, 543 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: especially the New York unions, the teachers unions there have 544 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 1: pushed away from the idea that teachers ought to have 545 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: a mandate to be vaccinated. So they want mandates for masks, 546 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: but they don't want mandates for teachers to be vaccinated. 547 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I think everybody needs to sort of set 548 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: aside all these political tools and start thinking about the 549 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: children and the workforce. This get complicated, Genie. We've got 550 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: Genie on the phone, and I'll tell you, I am 551 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: struck by constantly seeing private companies lean forward into this 552 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: and the government kind of run to catch up black Rock, 553 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: as I mentioned well as far ago, the latest pushing 554 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: back plans. We've seen others kind of dictate the way forward. 555 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: When it comes to the way we conduct ourselves in 556 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: the office, is how vaccine mandates are handled, all issues 557 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: that the government has struggled with, Genie, should should we 558 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: just be following corporate America on this? That's right? And 559 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: I think this is what gives people a sense that 560 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: the government doesn't work. You know, one of my favorite 561 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: but Sattis phrases is this any way to run a government? 562 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: And when you see Rohn de Santis, the governor of Florida, 563 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: and Joe Biden, the President of the United States, going 564 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: back and forth, and we know this is about politics, 565 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: we have to think about the fact. Look at Ron 566 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: De Santis, the Republican, is talking about federal government should 567 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: not tell us what to do. Yet he is telling 568 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: his own school districts what to do. And yet you 569 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: see this, so you know, this is a political gain 570 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: between him and Joe Biden. Everybody knows that, and that's 571 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: what needs people feeling frustrated and feeling like this has 572 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: less to do with public health and much more to 573 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: do with a political san And that's why, you know, 574 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: quite frankly, I wish the President wouldn't engage with Rhonda 575 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: Santis and other governors like this. I think we need 576 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: one voice from the federal level saying what the facts are. 577 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: And the facts are this, either you get vaccinated or 578 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: you wear a mask. It's not that complicated, and they 579 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,239 Speaker 1: have to stop making it complicated. And the back and 580 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: forth is doing them no good and it's not doing 581 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: the American public more importantly, any good. Rick Donald Trump 582 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: made it almost a full time job, and it was 583 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: a very effective job, getting into back and forth like this, 584 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: you know, finding a an enemy that that that he 585 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: could invest himself in. Is it a different scenario for 586 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: Joe Biden. A lot of people said that only be 587 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: one Donald Trump is there a political liability here or 588 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: a risk to getting into the end of the mud 589 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: with Rhonda Santis. Yeah, don't it. Don't take de bait. 590 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: The promise of the Biden administration in the campaign and 591 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: at the inaugural and subsequently was I'm not going to 592 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: be like Trump and I'm going to be science base. 593 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to run the government in a way that 594 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: is differentiated from the previous four years. And yet, you know, 595 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: Governor who right, the scantist takes a shot at him, 596 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: and he, you know, responds back, you know, with sort 597 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 1: of the sarcastic approach, and it's just not becoming the presidency. 598 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,320 Speaker 1: It's not becoming Joe Biden. It's not what he promised, 599 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: and it's and it's certainly not something that we want 600 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: to see connected to, uh, this massive public health crisis 601 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: that we are still trying to get ourselves out of 602 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,320 Speaker 1: and and and right now probably is the most important 603 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: time in the last two years that we've had to 604 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: really need leadership that's science base and is not political. 605 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: We're talking with Rick and Jennie our political panel here 606 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg sound On, and I have to ask you 607 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: both while we're together about infrastructure. We got the score 608 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: today from the Congressional Budget Office, and I dug into 609 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: this a little bit earlier in the hour with Jack Fitzpatrick. 610 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: It's likely, uh possible, if not likely, that we get 611 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: a vote tonight, a procedural vote that will go a 612 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: long way to moving this bill ahead. Two fifty six 613 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: billion dollars added to the federal budget. Genie, we understand 614 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: that that basically this isn't as paid for as we 615 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: thought it was. Is that a problem or is this 616 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: thing flying down the road to becoming law. I think 617 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: it is flying down the road as these things fly, 618 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: which is fairly slowly to becoming law, and I think 619 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 1: it will pass the Senate. I do think the CBO 620 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: report that you just spoke with Jack about, and the 621 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: idea that this is going to add two six billion 622 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: to the deficit over this period of time is going 623 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: to add fuel to Republicans who are opposed to the bill. 624 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,439 Speaker 1: But I don't think it will stop passage of the bill. 625 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: But I do think it adds, you know, sort of 626 00:35:54,239 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: another argument for Republicans and potentially others to say at 627 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: when they negotiated this bill out they were not forthcoming 628 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: about the issue of pay pay for it, and that 629 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: is a really big issue. On the other side, of course, 630 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,919 Speaker 1: we desperately need this infrastructure bill. We need probably more 631 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: than is in this bill. But we need this to 632 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: invest in the economy of the United States if we're 633 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: going to move forward as a nation and if we're 634 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: going to compete with the likes of China. So this 635 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: amount of increase in the deficit over this period of 636 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,919 Speaker 1: time is nothing in terms of what this will give 637 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: back to us if and when it's passed. But I 638 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: do think politically it will give some fuel for Republicans 639 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: who are opposed to the bill to begin with to 640 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: say this is why they're not going to support it. 641 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: And this will come back as we think about the 642 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: issue of a debt seal, the debt ceiling, which is 643 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: another issue that Congress is struggling with. That's for sure. 644 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: We're almost out of time, Rick, But if you were 645 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 1: a Republican yes vote yesterday, does this change your mind? 646 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: Seeing the score doesn't. I want to take credit for 647 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: building roads and bridges in my state, and nothing the 648 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: CBO is gonna tell me today is going to change 649 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: my mind that this is good politics. Back home, Rick 650 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: Davis Sheenie she Insano are political panel. I'm Joe Matthew 651 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: and Washington in another fascinating hour, the fastest hour in politics. 652 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,359 Speaker 1: I'll meet you back here tomorrow, Live from Washington. I'm 653 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg