Speaker 1: You're listening to Disinformed a mini series from There Are
Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet. I'm Bridget Todd, so I
Speaker 1: talked a lot of that text failure to center and
Speaker 1: listen to people who are underrepresented, even though those same
Speaker 1: people's voices are critical to understanding the Internet technology and
Speaker 1: how it shapes our world. But the Internet is also
Speaker 1: about possibility, so it's also important to carve out space
Speaker 1: to dream about what the future of the Internet could
Speaker 1: look like. And one of the most prolific people doing
Speaker 1: this work today is Sadette Harry. I kind of think
Speaker 1: of Toadet as the ambudsman for underrepresentative voices in tech,
Speaker 1: interrogating how we're included, are not included and its impact.
Speaker 1: In a recent piece for Wired called Listening to Black
Speaker 1: Women the Innovation Tech Can't figure Out, Sidet argues that
Speaker 1: tech creators and journalists have ignored the experiences of underrepresented
Speaker 1: voices like black women, and in turn ignored the harm
Speaker 1: that quote innovation can leash in our communities. She writes,
Speaker 1: harmful behavior towards black women isn't enough to inspire change
Speaker 1: until others are harmed, but the original harms are often
Speaker 1: lost by journalist task with covering tech, the power and
Speaker 1: rhetoric that went unchecked becomes common, and tactics used against
Speaker 1: black women for lulls become weapons used in conspiracies destabilizing
Speaker 1: the very nature of truth, from the swarming of victims
Speaker 1: to posing as black women to destabilizing communities or countries.
Speaker 1: Defining systemic abuse becomes a frustrating exercise of describing an
Speaker 1: empty space that no one believes is there. Sedet pushes
Speaker 1: back on the idea of who is considered to be
Speaker 1: the assumed standard user online. Her journey with tech and
Speaker 1: the Internet started with a truly hellish commute to a
Speaker 1: retail job at the Apple Store. I had one of
Speaker 1: the longest communes in New York, point blank. And I
Speaker 1: think that is very important because when we talk about
Speaker 1: the birth of the Internet, we often focus on Twitter,
Speaker 1: and I would I would say, I was like, I'm
Speaker 1: a not a user of the Internet in the way
Speaker 1: that people are excited, But I'm a user of Twitter
Speaker 1: social media at certain platforms, and some of my work
Speaker 1: diffuses out. But I have one of the longest commutes
Speaker 1: in New York. I'm from far Rock, New York. It's
Speaker 1: the last stop on the train I had been blogging
Speaker 1: for a bit, but I was a graduate of University
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania. My father was deported. I had been blogging
Speaker 1: for a little bit, and there was I got a
Speaker 1: job as a specialist for Apple fifth Avenue, so I
Speaker 1: came in through retail, and I said, I have other training,
Speaker 1: but I was working in retail, so not making even
Speaker 1: twenty dollars an hour. And I came in right after
Speaker 1: they started selling the first iPhone, so we got a
Speaker 1: small discount or actually, but I had the power. And
Speaker 1: as they got that and people were developing. We had internet,
Speaker 1: we were able to get things. And I was in
Speaker 1: a form ments or interested in performance. So this was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I was getting sold all my music and I was
Speaker 1: getting to look at libraries and as those things developed,
Speaker 1: how how do we use them? But I'm also on
Speaker 1: the Apple Store, A big cube of the iconic is
Speaker 1: on fifty Nights five I live in for Rockaway. I've
Speaker 1: got to take the a Traine from from Columbus Circle
Speaker 1: to the last stop. If you know New York, that
Speaker 1: is a that is a journey. And I was using
Speaker 1: it back when you weren't sure that you would have
Speaker 1: reception at everything so I would have a book in
Speaker 1: one hand, my notebook another hand, and I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: the brand new shiny iPhone. And when you get above
Speaker 1: ground in on the A train, you're getting above ground
Speaker 1: at eight and once and then you're going to Rock
Speaker 1: Boulevard and then for Rockaway Boulevard you're crossing two bodies
Speaker 1: of water past the JFK stop. So I'm seeing a
Speaker 1: lot of humanity because I'm saying, every person who has
Speaker 1: to get go to JFK Airport, that's what I grew
Speaker 1: up in, that's mine. That's part of my life in
Speaker 1: the city, that's part of my life as a human.
Speaker 1: And I'm above ground. So now I have WiFi, flash cellular,
Speaker 1: I have the new device, and I've been writing a Boggins,
Speaker 1: so I'm used to I'm taking to this literary form
Speaker 1: and but and I'm also bringing in some of the
Speaker 1: issues and things that we've had from blogging. And for me,
Speaker 1: it's always been about conversation and building community. And my job,
Speaker 1: with my job at the time, involves my gifted gap.
Speaker 1: So hey, I am built. I am specifically in spaces.
Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing we don't talk about,
Speaker 1: is this like you have certain talents or certain um
Speaker 1: inclinations to these things. Like when people talk about Twitter
Speaker 1: is the voice of the world, I'm like, Twitter is
Speaker 1: getting better, but for a long time, Twitter is not
Speaker 1: accessible to people can see that's a literary form that's
Speaker 1: already not accessible. People are talking about clubhouses. Oh this,
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, clubhouse doesn't work on Android, doesn't
Speaker 1: have really good translations, mostly in English, is ephemeral, and
Speaker 1: it has no close captioning, no caption so if you
Speaker 1: can't hear site, it's very hard for you to use.
Speaker 1: You are saying because people we are used to thinking
Speaker 1: as cultural creators are excited. But for me, that is
Speaker 1: I fit that demographic, that kind of user, that that
Speaker 1: early adopter that wasn't what they thought of was mit. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's how I started using it, and early adoption gets
Speaker 1: you a base, gets you people you're were with. But
Speaker 1: there was a time when the actual joke of it
Speaker 1: for me is if I was to tell my story
Speaker 1: as a person with like user research in my community
Speaker 1: background is is that I happen to be connected to
Speaker 1: more of the privileged aspects of accessing that basi tech
Speaker 1: while having an identity that would make me a novelty,
Speaker 1: because that wasn't who they intended it for. So that
Speaker 1: is all about how you build community and reach people online,
Speaker 1: which can sometimes be a bit fraud. When Facebook announced
Speaker 1: that video, not comments, are written articles, was the wave
Speaker 1: of the future news rooms My own included laid off
Speaker 1: thousands of media workers and an effort to pivot to video.
Speaker 1: But it turned out Facebook was actually inflating the metrics
Speaker 1: of video reach rather than getting distracted by the shiny
Speaker 1: new thing, whether it's pivots to video or fleets. Sedet
Speaker 1: work to make sure that systems that are already in
Speaker 1: use actually sort of the people who use them. She
Speaker 1: worked with the Choral Project, a project would increase public
Speaker 1: trust and media and journalism and make online dialogue and
Speaker 1: comments sections better through open source software. I moved into
Speaker 1: user community researchly for a Coral Project, which developed common
Speaker 1: systems which are now used in multiple newspapers. Back when
Speaker 1: everybody was like, oh, get rid of comments, and we
Speaker 1: were just like, don't do that. People need to talk,
Speaker 1: we need to access. What are you doing. Everybody got
Speaker 1: rid of promise, everybody went to Facebook comments, everybody pivoted
Speaker 1: to video, and then hey, they're lying about all the mentris,
Speaker 1: all your stuff is on Facebook. That was but it
Speaker 1: was the newest, shiniest thing, and I was like, that's
Speaker 1: a bad dear. It's not about the newest shinest thing.
Speaker 1: It's about who you serve, what you want to do.
Speaker 1: Have you made sure that those are the people can access?
Speaker 1: And I think that right now we're living in the
Speaker 1: fall out of that. We're living in that idea of
Speaker 1: we've created this myth of esoteric. When people ask me
Speaker 1: to tell my involvement with tech, I always thought with
Speaker 1: that it's because it was poor, it was because black,
Speaker 1: and it's because I was working in retail that I
Speaker 1: had that specific entry and this experience specific examination. And
Speaker 1: I have education and all those experiences. But the the
Speaker 1: only way I can describe it is having those melts.
Speaker 1: You have to be all those things, and every user,
Speaker 1: not just the ones with a high profile, not just
Speaker 1: a verified one, every single user will have this kind
Speaker 1: of story. Think of a universe that exists on screen
Speaker 1: or on stage. How is that universe fleshed out? Who's
Speaker 1: the main character and who are the side characters whose
Speaker 1: inner worlds aren't really fleshed out? Who has given a
Speaker 1: point of view. The death's background and performance has shaped
Speaker 1: perspective on the Internet. Namely asked her to interrogate who
Speaker 1: is the assumed main character of online experiences. The problem
Speaker 1: is that we have an Internet and platforms of lots
Speaker 1: of casts of characters, but who we make point of
Speaker 1: view characters? And that's a very big thing for me,
Speaker 1: and often like people watch me and they're like, what
Speaker 1: are you talking about? Like, we have to start thinking
Speaker 1: about who we make a point of view character because
Speaker 1: we have everybody on the Internet and this wealth of
Speaker 1: gorgeous humanity, but you still think that the point of
Speaker 1: view character is a white man between the ages of
Speaker 1: five to sixty of a certain socio economic background, and
Speaker 1: everybody else can only be up a point of view
Speaker 1: character for a very short period of time or one
Speaker 1: viral moment that is going to affect what we think
Speaker 1: the Internet is and affects what our art is because
Speaker 1: we are watching real time in the world about how
Speaker 1: we can't abandon each other and how we cannot pretend
Speaker 1: we are the only people that make our realities and
Speaker 1: things like that because we are doing really badly because
Speaker 1: we thought that was the way we need into one Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a that's a good question. I have
Speaker 1: something that I something that I um read in one
Speaker 1: of your pieces was that we've designed an Internet that
Speaker 1: does not look like the real world. Right. There are
Speaker 1: not sex workers there, there are not people who they're
Speaker 1: not working class people there. There are not people who
Speaker 1: have disabilities there. We've designed this Internet as if these
Speaker 1: people do not exist. But we know those people exist
Speaker 1: in the real world. So I guess one of my
Speaker 1: questions for you is, you know, what are some ways
Speaker 1: that you see different experiences and identities just be completely
Speaker 1: marginalized or suppressed on the Internet that you know exist
Speaker 1: in the real world. I I I am a little
Speaker 1: to answer that for because I think the justice was like,
Speaker 1: we don't see them in the kind of focus point
Speaker 1: of view way. They are always the underpinning, They are
Speaker 1: the foundation of content. Their aesthetics have informed so much.
Speaker 1: Anybody who tells you how Instagram developed does not involve
Speaker 1: sex workers is a liar and a fraud Like that
Speaker 1: person says that, and I'm just like, oh, you're lying
Speaker 1: on the Internet. But the other thing about that is
Speaker 1: that I am not a sex worker. And the first
Speaker 1: thing is once and the first thing that I firmly
Speaker 1: believe that if the thing I'm saying is that we
Speaker 1: need to see those people, I'm not the opposer is
Speaker 1: supposed to be asking the thing we need to work
Speaker 1: on the things that I wouldn't work on. It's like,
Speaker 1: how do we have better spaces for those people who
Speaker 1: are often already doing the work and developing the thing
Speaker 1: to cover themselves and speak for themselves, as well as
Speaker 1: how can we be effacal about it? How can we
Speaker 1: protect their security? And what does it mean for that
Speaker 1: to happen? That that And this is a thing where
Speaker 1: we often go like when we people talk about content,
Speaker 1: it's like we have all the content who gets forward,
Speaker 1: our relationship with it, our desire to protect it is different,
Speaker 1: and we do not honor how people want to speak
Speaker 1: about it, from its creation to its access, to its
Speaker 1: um sustainability to its permanent And these are the kind
Speaker 1: of and people offer go, oh, that's so meta, blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. Sometimes it's just it's just as granular as
Speaker 1: does it have close captions? Right? Does it have? Can
Speaker 1: you delete it? Can you be forgotten? And they're made
Speaker 1: meta when they need to be singular. And that's the
Speaker 1: thing that I like to poke, and that's the representation.
Speaker 1: Because subcultures change, trends change, morality changes, people live. How
Speaker 1: do we give people the ability to access and melode
Speaker 1: and create or where they are now? And how does
Speaker 1: our media that we've created work for that? I think
Speaker 1: that because of all the things that you've said, the
Speaker 1: sort of I guess ephemeral nature of a lot of
Speaker 1: the things that are online, I feel that I feel
Speaker 1: strongly that our work, our contributions in terms of how
Speaker 1: people have seen them as worthy of protection. It pains
Speaker 1: me to think that so many of the things that
Speaker 1: we have, that marginalized people have created online will not
Speaker 1: be preserved unless we preserve it right, And so I
Speaker 1: I I wonder, you know, how has that shaped our
Speaker 1: understanding of the experience of being online? That we are
Speaker 1: the only like we cannot trust anyone but ourselves to
Speaker 1: lovingly preserve our impact when our impact has been so great.
Speaker 1: I think that number one, this is an experience that
Speaker 1: we've had in history. And I think that's why the
Speaker 1: power of like like, power of librarians, and powers of
Speaker 1: our chives are most important. Because we're picking and choosing
Speaker 1: what to preserve. Let's take a quick break and our back.
Speaker 1: For black folks, there's an urgency in preservation. We die earlier,
Speaker 1: and our entire country was built on washing the way
Speaker 1: our voices and legacies. We have to be intentional to
Speaker 1: make sure our stories are told, let alone remember are
Speaker 1: preserved as black people specifically coming from the Atlantic slaves,
Speaker 1: trate and those like. We've had an experience of having
Speaker 1: to create cultural lines and cultural limitage when they did
Speaker 1: not exists, and when they do not when they where
Speaker 1: they have been designed to be failed because that was
Speaker 1: the project of building the world was help. Help was
Speaker 1: getting us to build it without like honoring our contributions.
Speaker 1: I think for right now is there has to be
Speaker 1: I think very material in some things and the other
Speaker 1: the other figures to that like even as I do
Speaker 1: other work, I kind of like I started to leave
Speaker 1: get the itches, like wanting to go back and do
Speaker 1: library sciences and just like the basics like how do
Speaker 1: you curate and how do you teach people to do things,
Speaker 1: and how do you hold things and not necessarily interpret everything,
Speaker 1: but leave people the space to be able to make
Speaker 1: their own interpretations. Because we have to confront our mortality
Speaker 1: and we have to confront death and you really have
Speaker 1: to start asking, like people get exactly the face made.
Speaker 1: It's it's very it's heavy and like we're in it,
Speaker 1: but it's like, what would you want to hand someone
Speaker 1: after when you're done, and can you do it in
Speaker 1: this current current? Things like we have I still have
Speaker 1: a Bible, I have earrings or there are earrings for me,
Speaker 1: I can't touch them from people I've loved. There we
Speaker 1: go through and we see the books and the architecture
Speaker 1: and all of that, and those are these are things
Speaker 1: for what we want to be left behind. But we
Speaker 1: also hear that in music and blues and how are
Speaker 1: they compatible and not compatible with the ways that are
Speaker 1: accepted to leave things behind and for us? And that
Speaker 1: is a heavy question, but it's a question we have
Speaker 1: to ask more and more now, and especially when we
Speaker 1: are also being confronted with the reality of we die early.
Speaker 1: M we lost two years as black people of our
Speaker 1: life expect to see during this what I often get
Speaker 1: upset with when we're talking about data intact of that.
Speaker 1: Everybody says we'll get to what we'll get to, what
Speaker 1: we'll get to it, and I'm like, we're dying early.
Speaker 1: We have less money, things are more stress is more
Speaker 1: likely to kill us. How much time do you assume
Speaker 1: that black people have for you to be wasting and
Speaker 1: playing in my face? But also we have created bridges
Speaker 1: across time despite that, we exist in those multiplicities because
Speaker 1: that's part of my family history where time is thought
Speaker 1: us to be in generations, not just me you. Right
Speaker 1: now we're all playing with those ideas of time, but
Speaker 1: we're trying to fix what are the things we want
Speaker 1: to hand, What are the relations again, the relationships we
Speaker 1: want to have, And those are not just momentary in
Speaker 1: terms of the tweets I just sent, but they also
Speaker 1: and from across time. What are these things? And these
Speaker 1: interventions are playing with and I think for marginalized people,
Speaker 1: but specifically Black women, because that's how I walk this eve.
Speaker 1: I have to. I am literally a living embodiment of
Speaker 1: a moment in time from a line that I'm going
Speaker 1: to try and transport through the people who I will touch,
Speaker 1: who will live different realities in different spaces. And that's simultaneous,
Speaker 1: asynchronous and safronous. And but right now we are very
Speaker 1: concerned with the do we have, but are we going
Speaker 1: to do enough in the time we have to make
Speaker 1: sure there is a place to give and send because
Speaker 1: the world's on fire and everybody's like, oh, we'll have time,
Speaker 1: We'll have time because they're used to telling certain people,
Speaker 1: people who look a lot like me and you and
Speaker 1: who are the people that helped made us, that we
Speaker 1: can always wait. And now that the fact that no,
Speaker 1: it can't wait when they said that, that is now
Speaker 1: circling up towards them. How do we light of fire
Speaker 1: under people's asses to say we don't have like, where
Speaker 1: do you think we're getting all this time? How do
Speaker 1: we create more urgency? We don't uh me you specifically?
Speaker 1: Are we live in this world? No? And it's um.
Speaker 1: I think that that was glib, but I think for
Speaker 1: most important it's that we have mutually we have pressurings,
Speaker 1: but we are literally trying to stay alive, and everything
Speaker 1: we do that tries to ensure our own survival tangentially
Speaker 1: helps everyone else because we have yet to figure out
Speaker 1: how true we save ourselves without saving everybody else, specifically
Speaker 1: as black woman, I promise you if we ever, as
Speaker 1: a collective black woman in fence, black people larger in general,
Speaker 1: if we all got together and ever figured out how
Speaker 1: we could do this without everybody else. I promise you
Speaker 1: we would have chucked our deuces and left a long
Speaker 1: time ago. Everything we do that is designed to keep
Speaker 1: us alive potentially helps everyone else, because in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways, getting a black woman to be valued in
Speaker 1: the way just humanely that other people are involves a
Speaker 1: complete destruction or reassessment of the system. It does, It
Speaker 1: just does. And I am and I walk, and I
Speaker 1: changed back and forth because we're dealing with extraordinary times.
Speaker 1: But everything turns into what more can we do? What
Speaker 1: more can be done? And I'm just like, make what
Speaker 1: I'm doing right now sustainable enough that I can actually
Speaker 1: have the space to think forward. Until I have that space,
Speaker 1: I've stopped responding to the what can we do? This
Speaker 1: is something I struggle with so much in my own work,
Speaker 1: in my own life. True, What what does it mean
Speaker 1: to truly have space and to have time? I feel
Speaker 1: that so often, even if I'm having a good experience,
Speaker 1: I am filtering that through. You know, I should be
Speaker 1: putting this on Instagram so that people know that I'm
Speaker 1: doing this, or I should be you know, marketing this,
Speaker 1: Like what does it look like to actually have time?
Speaker 1: And I think that, particularly for black women in THEMS,
Speaker 1: that looks we have like it's just a struggle. I
Speaker 1: guess I'll put it that way. It's it feels like
Speaker 1: a struggle to actually feel like I have the space
Speaker 1: and time, like to even just rest, yeah, to even
Speaker 1: just rest on my laurels, to be like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm doing this and having this conversation. I'm doing this
Speaker 1: work because I want to, not because it feels like
Speaker 1: it's so urgent. I need to I need to be
Speaker 1: moving to the next thing. Does that make sense? Yes?
Speaker 1: If you there's the NEP ministry who I believe is
Speaker 1: doing golf. Oh yes, And it's a hard thing and
Speaker 1: it's just like this is again. It was like I
Speaker 1: I very much loathed the idea of being the lone
Speaker 1: expert in anything except what I'm actually an expert in,
Speaker 1: and that's the thing that we're often not allowed. There
Speaker 1: are times when, because I think that we also have
Speaker 1: to confront the idea of like the hustle struggle. Lying
Speaker 1: culture is bad for us in terms of how it
Speaker 1: focuses on us in production to capitalistic values, but it's
Speaker 1: also badness because it doesn't allow us to get a
Speaker 1: real um extent of expertise, because there's a lot of
Speaker 1: like when people talk about imposter syndrome, there's imposter syndrome,
Speaker 1: but there's also a system that has told you over
Speaker 1: and over again that you are not valuable, you will
Speaker 1: not be compensated for were value. And then there is
Speaker 1: also just healthy self assessment and avoidance of Dune cruig
Speaker 1: in the syndrome like I'm not the best person for
Speaker 1: this does not necessarily mean that I am holding myself
Speaker 1: back or whatever. That's just sometimes mean that I have
Speaker 1: a good idea about the skills required for this, and
Speaker 1: the humility to know I don't have them. That's a
Speaker 1: gift you want. Oh, this is going to involve a
Speaker 1: lot of math. I joined the High High i Q
Speaker 1: Society because I couldn't pass math. I am wonderful and
Speaker 1: great and smart and intelligence. But if people's lives develop
Speaker 1: on me getting the math right, know what I can
Speaker 1: do in the best essential of my humanity is tell
Speaker 1: you immediately to hire someone else who will get the
Speaker 1: math right. That's not me. And yes, there's like and
Speaker 1: I think there's and I think often for me like
Speaker 1: that focusing like on aposter syndromes and and often, like
Speaker 1: a lot of literature becomes like like this is how
Speaker 1: we are in comparison to mediocre white man and Bubba.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I have no desire to com prepare
Speaker 1: myself to the mediocre. I have a better, stronger desire
Speaker 1: to create the fantastic. I love that it's mediocre, Like
Speaker 1: these people are so mediocre, but they get so far ahead.
Speaker 1: M okay, and they're gonna continue being mediocre. How do
Speaker 1: I make what's great? That could be from like a
Speaker 1: really good apple pie, that could be a really amazing
Speaker 1: piece of software, that could be a stunning visual That
Speaker 1: is all? That is where I think. Often I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: and I think it's bad because for our society, like
Speaker 1: black women, for a lot of us, is like we're
Speaker 1: constantly trying to create any The stress we feel is
Speaker 1: because we don't. We don't have that space where it's
Speaker 1: this thing of like I don't have I done everything
Speaker 1: I can to get on, have I done everything I
Speaker 1: can to what needs to be happening. And you feel
Speaker 1: that because you don't feel secure what you have, because
Speaker 1: you're not even you're making, you're making this as well,
Speaker 1: I feel like it will go away I feel I
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm making enough income this week, and
Speaker 1: it's like, if you had those other things taking care
Speaker 1: of you would have a better assessment of that. And
Speaker 1: there's also the reality that I don't know what any
Speaker 1: we are. I wouldn't ask anyone to make deep assessments
Speaker 1: of what we're doing right now. We're all we're all
Speaker 1: in stressed to traumatize. After the Capital insurrection, I feel
Speaker 1: like we had an afternoon where people like seem to
Speaker 1: be reflecting, and then the next day it was back
Speaker 1: to the normal shittiness. You know. I'm so I'm so
Speaker 1: sick of moments where yeah, for that day, people seemed
Speaker 1: to be really reflecting, and then the next day they
Speaker 1: all woke up and we're the same with not worse. Well,
Speaker 1: it's also like I looked at every single person they
Speaker 1: trotted out as an ex expert and things like that,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, everybody's white. Yes, everybody's from
Speaker 1: the same force schools, And people are like, do you
Speaker 1: want to be there? And I'm like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: In some cases yes, because I have feelings and thoughts
Speaker 1: that I want to get out. Because I've been talking
Speaker 1: about this for years and I have moments, but then
Speaker 1: they're also scared that it goes back to the other things, like, well,
Speaker 1: if you want to talk about it in like online community,
Speaker 1: the things that I actually have expertise in, Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you want to talk about it in the mechanics of AI,
Speaker 1: if you want to talking about heavy duty legal, there's
Speaker 1: no reason to have me there. My problem is is
Speaker 1: that you have a wealth of people who should be
Speaker 1: there who are not there, like they're talking about just like,
Speaker 1: I am not the person you need to be talking to,
Speaker 1: but you're not gonna ly in my face and tell
Speaker 1: me you can't find a single black woman to talk to.
Speaker 1: After a quick break, let's get right back into it.
Speaker 1: Black women are rarely cited or centered in conversations about
Speaker 1: the Internet, even about their own experiences things like online
Speaker 1: harassment or the kinds of racialized disinformation campaigns that kicks
Speaker 1: harder the Capital insurrection. These things overwhelmingly target black women,
Speaker 1: yet we're rarely given the space to talk about its impacts.
Speaker 1: The Death says that tech media let themselves off the
Speaker 1: hook by writing black women like her office problems or
Speaker 1: not likable or professional enough. It's us giving themselves license
Speaker 1: to exclude our voices from the narrative, essentially blaming us
Speaker 1: for our owner rature. Are you complained about my tone?
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, my tone is very specific. I
Speaker 1: chose a screen name that is kind of confrontational. I've
Speaker 1: got a collection of cat tattoos and aesthetics that maybe
Speaker 1: looking back now, I might have turned down the eile
Speaker 1: on or maybe I might have turned the doll up.
Speaker 1: Who knows, but they say something, and I'm aware of that,
Speaker 1: the visual era, and we're aware of that, the packaging
Speaker 1: brand era. You are not going to lie in my
Speaker 1: very librarian inclined face and tell me you can't find
Speaker 1: a black woman who does not have these signals, who
Speaker 1: does not have this attitude, who does not have this tone,
Speaker 1: but who is more than qualified and considered and thoughtful
Speaker 1: to tell you similar things. You don't like me to
Speaker 1: get their days. I don't like me, But if you
Speaker 1: actually like the work you define somebody you keep asking
Speaker 1: pointing at me because it prevents you from actually doing
Speaker 1: the work of finding somebody else. And I think that's
Speaker 1: experience a lot of black women have. It's like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: she's a problem, she's a problem. I'm like, yes, I
Speaker 1: probably there, or she is, or maybe even I don't
Speaker 1: like her. But if you care about what the work is,
Speaker 1: you have a two prompt thing. If you care about
Speaker 1: the work, and that is the expert, that is the
Speaker 1: person you should be talking to. Stop trying to get
Speaker 1: around talking the person. It's not about your like me,
Speaker 1: because you never seem to have that problem when it's
Speaker 1: a white man. Some of these dudes are running around
Speaker 1: being demons, demons on earth and actual fashions and racist
Speaker 1: and but we can't go around them. Weird because you
Speaker 1: always managed to go around the black woman or the
Speaker 1: Asian woman or the Latin x um, that non binary
Speaker 1: person that you all admit as an expert. But you
Speaker 1: could find a way around them because they're difficult. But
Speaker 1: you never find you never feel the same disposition to
Speaker 1: that when it's a terrible white man. Eclipside of that
Speaker 1: being oh you don't like that person. They're awful, they're problematic,
Speaker 1: Yes they are. They you know what, they're some people
Speaker 1: who I don't like them working with other people. They're
Speaker 1: not nice, they're not kind, But you keep do you
Speaker 1: keep involving them because it allows you to discredit for
Speaker 1: the work, or you are completely right. There are seven
Speaker 1: other people um all orientation shape sons like labors, who
Speaker 1: are wonderful and competent. Go ask one of them. Go
Speaker 1: ask them, because they're ready to work. You just you
Speaker 1: create a roadblock where there isn't and you create a
Speaker 1: roadblock because it serves you, and you created because it
Speaker 1: serves you. But what we're asking you to run do
Speaker 1: right now serve everyone else? Well, I think you. I mean,
Speaker 1: something that you said that really sticks with me is
Speaker 1: this idea of just who we hear from and who
Speaker 1: we don't hear from, particularly as it pertains to talking
Speaker 1: about online communities. You know, in the aftermath of the
Speaker 1: of the interaction, like how many different experts from the
Speaker 1: same four schools that we need to hear from, how
Speaker 1: many different you know, like how many different outlets rush
Speaker 1: to interview a Proud Boys member or a Q non believer,
Speaker 1: and just how little they center the people who are
Speaker 1: directly impacted. So we didn't hear about the black women
Speaker 1: who have been talking about online harassment since forever. Who
Speaker 1: you know, if someone had listened to them, someone with power,
Speaker 1: this whole thing might have gone differently. We just didn't
Speaker 1: even have that conversation I and and this is where
Speaker 1: my rude steps in. But people glove when I challenge
Speaker 1: them on that to be like, well, I've just been
Speaker 1: starting since two thousand sixteen. I was like, I had
Speaker 1: my first run in with some of these people in
Speaker 1: two thousands twelve and two thousand and fourteen. Tell me
Speaker 1: you don't care and keep it moving, but do not
Speaker 1: waste my time. Well, we know you were gonna reach outs,
Speaker 1: like you told me in a tweet. I know. For
Speaker 1: the other thing about it is because the work I
Speaker 1: tend to do tend to be designed spreads news or
Speaker 1: research and archival. And this is a this is a
Speaker 1: little quirk that I've had um for a while, is
Speaker 1: that they're sometimes there's awful things about people who are
Speaker 1: hiding from ghetto names and things like that. In HR
Speaker 1: and how hiring works is that I have a very
Speaker 1: kind of My name is distinct and it's hard to
Speaker 1: find and because s c O Black woman, they shoved
Speaker 1: me down visually. Four Now, if you google me and
Speaker 1: you don't see a picture of my name, a lot
Speaker 1: of people think I'm white a lot of because of
Speaker 1: my name. If you don't see a photo and it
Speaker 1: doesn't surface a photo, people think of why and because
Speaker 1: of my family with West Indians and my mother had
Speaker 1: a very quitely odd um obsessions with speaking properly and
Speaker 1: to the point that went until I was like a
Speaker 1: certain age, I actually had a vaguely British accent and
Speaker 1: it's something I able to fall to and like we
Speaker 1: all code switched in like your professional voice, and you
Speaker 1: sometimes will hear me doing it in this but it's
Speaker 1: like when I'm like my professional voices, good afternoon, my
Speaker 1: name is said death Harry, I will be your toxic
Speaker 1: for the day. And if you're not looking directly at mine,
Speaker 1: go to black face. People think what. So I've often
Speaker 1: experienced this where folks will stay and talk to me
Speaker 1: face to face when they're looking at me or about
Speaker 1: things where when they see my abby and they will,
Speaker 1: they will, and the different like they're just like, well,
Speaker 1: you don't understand or you don't comprehend and maybe you
Speaker 1: and and all of this, and I'm just like mm hmm,
Speaker 1: and who are you citing? We and they'll sit an
Speaker 1: article I wrote for Model que Culture. Sometimes it's it's
Speaker 1: happened to me once or twice, but why are now
Speaker 1: and I was just like, you decided, what's that. It's
Speaker 1: a debt, Harry. And it happens to other women too,
Speaker 1: but there is a specific racial thing for it sometimes,
Speaker 1: or like someone who called me on the phone and
Speaker 1: then meet me in person after I've done some research
Speaker 1: and they're like, yeah, I spoke to this woman on
Speaker 1: the phone's debt and she was and like that happened
Speaker 1: to me more than once or twice. And I'm not
Speaker 1: going to say when to protect people, but they were
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, she had these really great faults. She
Speaker 1: was really connecting it to manuscripts and other things. And
Speaker 1: I was just like, uh huh. It's like, I know
Speaker 1: you're And this is the person who actually started going
Speaker 1: to like I know you're more social because they read
Speaker 1: social media in some ways, especially for black women, they
Speaker 1: read social media deftness as a fad and not a
Speaker 1: skin like a lot. There are a lot of white
Speaker 1: male journalists who are doing exactly what I was doing
Speaker 1: in twenties now, and they're paid for it, Like they
Speaker 1: barely write articles. They just tweet. For me, it was
Speaker 1: a problem for them. It's a job, and they'll be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she talks about these things and and I was like,
Speaker 1: very interesting. I'm to just like sit that Harry, uh yeah,
Speaker 1: like and I'm just like and they're just like, oh,
Speaker 1: so I'd like to follow you on Twitter. And I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, this is my screen in black Amazon
Speaker 1: and they're like, wait your sit that hery? Yes, I
Speaker 1: am daring. What is that? Like? Um? But it's the mind.
Speaker 1: It's a mind black women experience. Like it's an interesting
Speaker 1: like that's my version of it. But I believe they
Speaker 1: are black women all over the space that has said
Speaker 1: of like like there is a very like there's it's
Speaker 1: for me the experiences. And I talked about the tattoos.
Speaker 1: I got my tattoos later in life. All of them
Speaker 1: started in the thirty and if you haven't gotten it yet,
Speaker 1: be careful because like I got mine after thirty and
Speaker 1: it's an addiction. I'm just like, I haven't had its
Speaker 1: actually early a year and a half, y'all. But like there,
Speaker 1: I was like I was talking to someone who was
Speaker 1: probably a very well minded theorist, and they were like,
Speaker 1: but at the oranges of the Internet. I was like,
Speaker 1: let's talk about printy culture and mass communications and that's
Speaker 1: my thing, and they're they're like, well, it's strange, and
Speaker 1: like the person was very much hedging, and I was like,
Speaker 1: because I have tattoos on my right farm, on one
Speaker 1: of my my right warm is specifically designed to be
Speaker 1: the type script for the first mass produced slave sheets,
Speaker 1: which was also convincedly and oddly enough type script for
Speaker 1: um the first really sarafants that were printed the first
Speaker 1: full year of Shakespeare. Really we know it hard in
Speaker 1: these streets, um me. But but it's also it's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a telling part of our culture that,
Speaker 1: like the mass production of the identity of Western literature,
Speaker 1: was also the same mass production that was used to
Speaker 1: retain black enslaved people, to create nations and create identities.
Speaker 1: And I was and it's like, this is a and
Speaker 1: these were people who are just like, well, it's not
Speaker 1: professional and it's unprofessional. And I was and I was like, great,
Speaker 1: it's not professional. That doesn't mean that I don't understand
Speaker 1: the historical significance. But that is the thing that like
Speaker 1: for me, I experienced sometimes visually tattoos, but I think
Speaker 1: sometimes black women experienced it. With your speaking choices, your names,
Speaker 1: are you really an engineer? I think all black female
Speaker 1: engineers have heard experiences that like you you have to
Speaker 1: put out more. You might do some performances or your
Speaker 1: performing the cues are read differently, but you have to
Speaker 1: do more work. And then the mind funck of that
Speaker 1: is just like I don't know what it's like to
Speaker 1: not have to do that. You and actions of your
Speaker 1: life don't know what it's like to not do that.
Speaker 1: That there is a world like there is a world
Speaker 1: or there is an identity and experience that at some
Speaker 1: point people just believed what was true about you without
Speaker 1: you having to do more than that. That's the screw up.
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm at this point where I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go We're gonna go around, You're gonna get it,
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna have to bread you up a
Speaker 1: bit and whatever that is and that I can or
Speaker 1: whatever can or cannot do it, that's the thing. But
Speaker 1: I think the the the the mind screw is that
Speaker 1: there is someone whose entire life they've never had to
Speaker 1: do that. That's the thing because I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 1: this happens. Like I've had men like just try and
Speaker 1: upbraide me about and especially within tech, tech, media, tech
Speaker 1: journalism as everybody gets silly moved into missing this information
Speaker 1: and online harassment and I'm just like you are. So
Speaker 1: people be like who if you knew? And I was like, so,
Speaker 1: what's the number? One? Like there are two books that
Speaker 1: were do your Times bestsellers? And it is also for me.
Speaker 1: I've talked about this before. I feel like someone of
Speaker 1: Jack asked, when I do that? Do you sign it?
Speaker 1: Two books about New York Times bestsellers? Um, please go
Speaker 1: to the acknowledgements for the dedications. That's gotta name, that's
Speaker 1: gotta feel good, Like that kind of feel good in
Speaker 1: a kind of way. That feels good because I've been eagle,
Speaker 1: and it feels good because no matter what, I'm always
Speaker 1: I'm a New York genre. I'm a New York shity,
Speaker 1: always have been. And sometimes you've gotta let these people know.
Speaker 1: That feels good on that level because you if you
Speaker 1: you better ask somebody. But it also feels terrible because like,
Speaker 1: these are experiences that were difficult, and these are relationships
Speaker 1: and moments and rather than just believe towards the goal
Speaker 1: of no, we're trying to stop to stop the abuse,
Speaker 1: We're trying to stop these experiences we get I've got
Speaker 1: to spend thirty minutes or ten minutes or really uncomfortable
Speaker 1: situation of me looking and you like this, like tell
Speaker 1: me more rather than us actually doing the work of
Speaker 1: improving the thing. What would have happened if I didn't
Speaker 1: have to go through that, if I didn't have to
Speaker 1: pull out all the what happens? Like we talked about receipts,
Speaker 1: but like the stress of receipts, what would happen if
Speaker 1: instead of a day, a week, a month, a couple
Speaker 1: of years of us having to pull receipts? How to
Speaker 1: prove what happened? You just did the work. We just
Speaker 1: got to do the work. Like that's the thing that
Speaker 1: is very like, uh you want that moment? Like that
Speaker 1: to me is the the the actual mine. Like in
Speaker 1: those moments you realize how much and with time, you
Speaker 1: realize how much energy you have wasted necessary and unnecessary
Speaker 1: because like sometimes you need to do it to get
Speaker 1: it done, and sometimes you do it out of reflex so,
Speaker 1: but how much of that time is taken from the
Speaker 1: thing you want to do because and it goes out
Speaker 1: to the basically there for some people upward and there's
Speaker 1: some people who are oh, they're like, there are some
Speaker 1: people who like when they dressed them down, You're just like,
Speaker 1: oh that was when I was a piece of odd. Go.
Speaker 1: Girls don't like you. You get that like there are
Speaker 1: some people who are sculled that there and it's a
Speaker 1: beautiful watch the work and they then they enjoy it.
Speaker 1: And I love the van and joy because they are
Speaker 1: good at it. I might have some facility. I'm not
Speaker 1: as good as they are, But for me, I'm usually
Speaker 1: just tired. I'm like, okay, so we did that. Now
Speaker 1: we're done. Like we don't know you you you, You're good,
Speaker 1: You're you're good, You're good. Let's get to work. I
Speaker 1: have to ask this is kind of a this is
Speaker 1: kind of a random question, not related to I guess
Speaker 1: it just sort of related. You are so yourself, you know,
Speaker 1: even looking at you right now, You've got the print shirt,
Speaker 1: these bold glasses. How did you find the freedom and
Speaker 1: space to show up like this as yourself in this way?
Speaker 1: How did you walk in this confidence? That's who you
Speaker 1: are in some of these spaces that you walk in.
Speaker 1: There's a performance training. I am streaking line. I've done theater.
Speaker 1: I studied offer for nine years. I am very good
Speaker 1: at the fake it or till you make it, or
Speaker 1: ask for confidence and confidence to be given to you
Speaker 1: when you're good at performance. And it's one of the
Speaker 1: things I talked about. It's just like I'm often nervous.
Speaker 1: They're my last, my last, one of the last big
Speaker 1: speech I gave. I spent a lot of time on
Speaker 1: the tables, and I was like literally with the person
Speaker 1: I was talking to, like, oh my god, people, it
Speaker 1: is a performance. You get up, you get ready. I
Speaker 1: was training that get up, get ready, give it, sell
Speaker 1: it out. And then like the minute you step off stage,
Speaker 1: you kind of cook, curling a ball and rock back
Speaker 1: and forth. Um. Also, I've talked about it before, but
Speaker 1: like my my I like theory. I like wanting stuff.
Speaker 1: I like the combinations, like looking at the things and
Speaker 1: just making them happen. That allows me to have a
Speaker 1: lot of interior time or time and stacks and time
Speaker 1: and books to just beat myself. Some of it is
Speaker 1: just like the way I was born, conclusion to be
Speaker 1: having another option I am. We are not seeing people
Speaker 1: in full body and like the pandemics discomfort were all
Speaker 1: discomfort using weight Gangley. But at my general right now,
Speaker 1: I'm about five eleven, two hundreds, so there's like not
Speaker 1: a lot of I can hide in my person and
Speaker 1: and that is a like I'm a tall human and
Speaker 1: that and it seems like a strange thing to be
Speaker 1: so formative, but for me personally, there's not there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of option of camouflage. There's not a lot
Speaker 1: of like, hey, I'm gonna walk into certain rooms unnerved, unnoticed,
Speaker 1: and especially as a black woman. And I was, and
Speaker 1: I was part of I'm from far Rock and this
Speaker 1: is a underresource neighborhood. We have certain access that we
Speaker 1: don't So I was in a lot of things like
Speaker 1: one of the lonely only I couldn't hide in a
Speaker 1: room I would be purposely ignored. But I'm going to
Speaker 1: have to be this person. And the way I am built,
Speaker 1: both physically and emotionally, was like I want to leave
Speaker 1: this challenge or I want to at least get good
Speaker 1: at faking it. Like people were like, I have such
Speaker 1: anxiety sometimes about large groups of people. I know how
Speaker 1: to make that anxiety look like I'm working the room.
Speaker 1: But it's like here, quick tip. If you really don't
Speaker 1: like talking to large groups of people and you're in
Speaker 1: a large groups of people. If you are very instantly
Speaker 1: and personally find every single person and talk to them
Speaker 1: for two to three with ups, it looks like you're
Speaker 1: working through the room. You're actually working the runaway people
Speaker 1: are like, she's the life of the party. That is
Speaker 1: a specific thing for me. It was important for me
Speaker 1: to develop a skill. I felt it necessary to develop
Speaker 1: a skill that I was going to be very solidly myself.
Speaker 1: I was gonna be strong about it, I was gonna
Speaker 1: be clear about it because I didn't have the option
Speaker 1: for other things. One of the things that a lot
Speaker 1: of some of my line thin people are like, Oh,
Speaker 1: you're being mean and this person is so nervous and anxious,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what makes you think I'm not mhm,
Speaker 1: Why have you decided that I'm not anxious? Why have
Speaker 1: you decided that I'm not scared? Or have you decided
Speaker 1: that it's okay for me to be scared based on
Speaker 1: what you think I am allowed to be Because there
Speaker 1: have been a lot of times of oh, you're the
Speaker 1: big men, move and I'm like, okay, no I'm not.
Speaker 1: Because while I'm talking to you, I'm on the phone
Speaker 1: with somebody else and I'm crying. I am heaving sobs,
Speaker 1: like oh, Like there are times and a lot of
Speaker 1: times with black women's like anybody who defends you, like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're just seeking your people or your followers on them,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what would happen if you thought of
Speaker 1: them as my friend? What would happen if you thought
Speaker 1: of Some of the people who are saying back up
Speaker 1: or leave me alone are saying that because they know
Speaker 1: me as a human and they know that this affects me.
Speaker 1: What like, like what happens if my distress wasn't funny
Speaker 1: to you or a topic to you? And I think
Speaker 1: that goes back to like what we were talking about
Speaker 1: for the subject. And a lot of this is that
Speaker 1: people say black women, but they don't name them, And
Speaker 1: it's the back to the citations of black women is
Speaker 1: like we become a concept, We become a they say
Speaker 1: black women the way you would say pineapples or like fruit,
Speaker 1: like oh fruits you or have this composition like not
Speaker 1: but it's not sentient being. And with the engagement what's
Speaker 1: happening to us, it's along the same lines, like it's
Speaker 1: very much we are a thing to be discussed, but
Speaker 1: we are not people with which these things have effects on.
Speaker 1: They mean things and often being like, no, this hurts, no,
Speaker 1: this is scary, Like people I was like. People often
Speaker 1: say like, oh, you're like oh, Like sometimes I told
Speaker 1: you so is not an admonition, It's not a dunk.
Speaker 1: It's a cry for help. Sometimes I told you so
Speaker 1: is a question like their lives is like but we
Speaker 1: told you or I told you so. It's like, I
Speaker 1: am not trying to be the smartest person in the room.
Speaker 1: I really want to understand what was it about what
Speaker 1: I said, what I said that didn't register for you,
Speaker 1: that didn't make you act and what would it take
Speaker 1: for it to be something you acted upon? So that
Speaker 1: brings me to my to my big question. You know,
Speaker 1: what could the internet look like if we listen to
Speaker 1: black women and recognize our humanity and and centered us
Speaker 1: what what what could the internet be like? The internet
Speaker 1: would look like the world? The internet would look like
Speaker 1: a world we actually live in. I would love to
Speaker 1: know what an internet that could distract It could honestly
Speaker 1: describe the feeling of having a really good piece of
Speaker 1: pineapple with loved ones at the edge of the beach
Speaker 1: when you are exactly that moment because we were like, oh,
Speaker 1: you invited to a product and it is exactly what
Speaker 1: you want in a space you want, or like when
Speaker 1: you have ever read or heard something and it starks
Speaker 1: something in you in that moment of just oh wow
Speaker 1: that What would happen or what would happen if the
Speaker 1: places where you bought your clothes showed people who looked
Speaker 1: like you? Or what would happen if when you looked
Speaker 1: at descriptions of your neighborhood it wasn't just the same
Speaker 1: things or like those spaces at that time, or what
Speaker 1: would happen if when you when something said all access,
Speaker 1: it was actually all access that you could sign into
Speaker 1: something and it wasn't about worrying whether or not you
Speaker 1: had anything like you. When movies in cinema a big
Speaker 1: thing and like those are, it's rough because those are
Speaker 1: some of the largest pieces of mass communication and the
Speaker 1: largest places we get culture one of the most resistance
Speaker 1: to talking about it in any way that does not
Speaker 1: involved gatekeeping. But it's just like what would happens is
Speaker 1: when you walked in the movie theater, you knew you
Speaker 1: could watch the movie For people who are visually and
Speaker 1: auditorily abled and mobility abled, we'd never have to think
Speaker 1: about that. There are so many people who do not
Speaker 1: who have to think about that doesn't have hearing capabilities,
Speaker 1: does it have visual descriptions or is that an only
Speaker 1: one showing that is a that is a huge part
Speaker 1: of like if you're from the world and like that
Speaker 1: you're actually from the world, you're front you you went
Speaker 1: into something that pretend that talked about the city you
Speaker 1: lived in and the story actually looked like those people
Speaker 1: you encountered in your life, or that if you went
Speaker 1: to a unlike movie, could just because they're both visual
Speaker 1: and media concerts. But if you were looking at the showings,
Speaker 1: and we're looking at the showings in a big city
Speaker 1: that had multiple languages and had people of multip language,
Speaker 1: when you looked at the cinema, you knew that someone
Speaker 1: could come in and hear what they needed to hear,
Speaker 1: or that at least one of those stories reflected them,
Speaker 1: and that wasn't they didn't have to worry about that.
Speaker 1: Those kind of tease outs and changes. And I think
Speaker 1: for me, the way I would close it is that
Speaker 1: what would the world look like if they listen to us?
Speaker 1: Is another question is what would listening look like it's
Speaker 1: like there would be a constant conversation of making everything
Speaker 1: two do that, to do something new and to do
Speaker 1: something but not just profit off of it. And that space,
Speaker 1: which is still in the videous and isn't an answer,
Speaker 1: would be magical and I think that would lead to
Speaker 1: multiple more conversations. But like I think of Pineapple by
Speaker 1: the ocean surrounded by people in a way to actually
Speaker 1: convey that in all of these mediums, and that's that's
Speaker 1: that's what happens. Like people will tell you how to
Speaker 1: sell that right now, we talk about how to sell it,
Speaker 1: how to influence, etcetera. But to actually convey to a
Speaker 1: person point to point, hard to heart, this is what
Speaker 1: it feels like for me and for you. And that
Speaker 1: is both like for me, you pineapple by the Ocean South.
Speaker 1: But what if we had somebody who liked apples or
Speaker 1: apples and the hills, it was a completely different thing.
Speaker 1: And they will be like, and it's here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I want to know what that's that's that feeling is
Speaker 1: like I want to know what they think of that.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily need to make them feel the same
Speaker 1: thing I do. But that's that to me is the
Speaker 1: CrOx of it, like we we what would we get
Speaker 1: if we actually move towards having those discussions and not
Speaker 1: about these whole influences? What and does what? Like? That's
Speaker 1: the question for me, is that actually answers it, answers
Speaker 1: it beautifully. Now I want pineapple on the beach so
Speaker 1: that I cannot thank you enough for taking the time
Speaker 1: to speak. I wish I have chills your I don't know,
Speaker 1: I have something about the way you show up in
Speaker 1: the world is such a gift, and I yeah, I
Speaker 1: I am so grateful that you are a human who exists.
Speaker 1: Thank you, grateful for you? Oh please, no, but I
Speaker 1: am no. No, don't you dare, don't you dare? All right,
Speaker 1: this is a real thing. Every day we look at
Speaker 1: black women and we are we are often feeling it alone.
Speaker 1: We feel we unseen, we feel understood, misunderstood, And every
Speaker 1: day I get to look at you and I get
Speaker 1: to look at others and we're here and we're building.
Speaker 1: So I am grateful for you, and please understand that
Speaker 1: is honest and true and meant from the heart. You
Speaker 1: are amazing both for being bridget but also for being human.
Speaker 1: No one else likes you exist in this moment. I
Speaker 1: am thankful for that. Oh you cannot cry. You cannot cry,
Speaker 1: or I'll cry and then no, that's dope. Stop. So
Speaker 1: I appreciate you so much. If you've enjoyed this podcast,
Speaker 1: please help us grow by subscribing. Got a story about
Speaker 1: an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi,
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you at Hello at tango
Speaker 1: dot com. Dis Informed is brought to you by There
Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet. It's a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Unbossed. Creative Jonathan Strickland is our
Speaker 1: executive producer. Tory Harrison is our supervising producer and engineer.
Speaker 1: Michael Lamotto is our contributing producer. I'm your host Bridget Tod.
Speaker 1: For more great podcasts, check out the iHeart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.