1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: You're listening to Disinformed a mini series from There Are 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet. I'm Bridget Todd, so I 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,119 Speaker 1: talked a lot of that text failure to center and 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: listen to people who are underrepresented, even though those same 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: people's voices are critical to understanding the Internet technology and 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: how it shapes our world. But the Internet is also 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: about possibility, so it's also important to carve out space 8 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: to dream about what the future of the Internet could 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: look like. And one of the most prolific people doing 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: this work today is Sadette Harry. I kind of think 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: of Toadet as the ambudsman for underrepresentative voices in tech, 12 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: interrogating how we're included, are not included and its impact. 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: In a recent piece for Wired called Listening to Black 14 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 1: Women the Innovation Tech Can't figure Out, Sidet argues that 15 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: tech creators and journalists have ignored the experiences of underrepresented 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: voices like black women, and in turn ignored the harm 17 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: that quote innovation can leash in our communities. She writes, 18 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: harmful behavior towards black women isn't enough to inspire change 19 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: until others are harmed, but the original harms are often 20 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: lost by journalist task with covering tech, the power and 21 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 1: rhetoric that went unchecked becomes common, and tactics used against 22 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: black women for lulls become weapons used in conspiracies destabilizing 23 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: the very nature of truth, from the swarming of victims 24 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: to posing as black women to destabilizing communities or countries. 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: Defining systemic abuse becomes a frustrating exercise of describing an 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: empty space that no one believes is there. Sedet pushes 27 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: back on the idea of who is considered to be 28 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: the assumed standard user online. Her journey with tech and 29 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: the Internet started with a truly hellish commute to a 30 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: retail job at the Apple Store. I had one of 31 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: the longest communes in New York, point blank. And I 32 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: think that is very important because when we talk about 33 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: the birth of the Internet, we often focus on Twitter, 34 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: and I would I would say, I was like, I'm 35 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: a not a user of the Internet in the way 36 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: that people are excited, But I'm a user of Twitter 37 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: social media at certain platforms, and some of my work 38 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: diffuses out. But I have one of the longest commutes 39 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: in New York. I'm from far Rock, New York. It's 40 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: the last stop on the train I had been blogging 41 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: for a bit, but I was a graduate of University 42 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania. My father was deported. I had been blogging 43 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: for a little bit, and there was I got a 44 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: job as a specialist for Apple fifth Avenue, so I 45 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: came in through retail, and I said, I have other training, 46 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: but I was working in retail, so not making even 47 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: twenty dollars an hour. And I came in right after 48 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: they started selling the first iPhone, so we got a 49 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: small discount or actually, but I had the power. And 50 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: as they got that and people were developing. We had internet, 51 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: we were able to get things. And I was in 52 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 1: a form ments or interested in performance. So this was like, oh, 53 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: I was getting sold all my music and I was 54 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: getting to look at libraries and as those things developed, 55 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: how how do we use them? But I'm also on 56 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: the Apple Store, A big cube of the iconic is 57 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: on fifty Nights five I live in for Rockaway. I've 58 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,959 Speaker 1: got to take the a Traine from from Columbus Circle 59 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: to the last stop. If you know New York, that 60 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: is a that is a journey. And I was using 61 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: it back when you weren't sure that you would have 62 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: reception at everything so I would have a book in 63 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: one hand, my notebook another hand, and I wouldn't have 64 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: the brand new shiny iPhone. And when you get above 65 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: ground in on the A train, you're getting above ground 66 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: at eight and once and then you're going to Rock 67 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: Boulevard and then for Rockaway Boulevard you're crossing two bodies 68 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: of water past the JFK stop. So I'm seeing a 69 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: lot of humanity because I'm saying, every person who has 70 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: to get go to JFK Airport, that's what I grew 71 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: up in, that's mine. That's part of my life in 72 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: the city, that's part of my life as a human. 73 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: And I'm above ground. So now I have WiFi, flash cellular, 74 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: I have the new device, and I've been writing a Boggins, 75 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: so I'm used to I'm taking to this literary form 76 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: and but and I'm also bringing in some of the 77 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: issues and things that we've had from blogging. And for me, 78 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: it's always been about conversation and building community. And my job, 79 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: with my job at the time, involves my gifted gap. 80 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: So hey, I am built. I am specifically in spaces. 81 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: And I think that's the thing we don't talk about, 82 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: is this like you have certain talents or certain um 83 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: inclinations to these things. Like when people talk about Twitter 84 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: is the voice of the world, I'm like, Twitter is 85 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: getting better, but for a long time, Twitter is not 86 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: accessible to people can see that's a literary form that's 87 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: already not accessible. People are talking about clubhouses. Oh this, 88 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: and I'm just like, clubhouse doesn't work on Android, doesn't 89 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: have really good translations, mostly in English, is ephemeral, and 90 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: it has no close captioning, no caption so if you 91 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: can't hear site, it's very hard for you to use. 92 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: You are saying because people we are used to thinking 93 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: as cultural creators are excited. But for me, that is 94 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: I fit that demographic, that kind of user, that that 95 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: early adopter that wasn't what they thought of was mit. Yes, 96 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: that's how I started using it, and early adoption gets 97 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: you a base, gets you people you're were with. But 98 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: there was a time when the actual joke of it 99 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: for me is if I was to tell my story 100 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 1: as a person with like user research in my community 101 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: background is is that I happen to be connected to 102 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: more of the privileged aspects of accessing that basi tech 103 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: while having an identity that would make me a novelty, 104 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: because that wasn't who they intended it for. So that 105 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: is all about how you build community and reach people online, 106 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,679 Speaker 1: which can sometimes be a bit fraud. When Facebook announced 107 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: that video, not comments, are written articles, was the wave 108 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: of the future news rooms My own included laid off 109 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: thousands of media workers and an effort to pivot to video. 110 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: But it turned out Facebook was actually inflating the metrics 111 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: of video reach rather than getting distracted by the shiny 112 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: new thing, whether it's pivots to video or fleets. Sedet 113 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: work to make sure that systems that are already in 114 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: use actually sort of the people who use them. She 115 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: worked with the Choral Project, a project would increase public 116 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: trust and media and journalism and make online dialogue and 117 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: comments sections better through open source software. I moved into 118 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: user community researchly for a Coral Project, which developed common 119 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: systems which are now used in multiple newspapers. Back when 120 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: everybody was like, oh, get rid of comments, and we 121 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: were just like, don't do that. People need to talk, 122 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: we need to access. What are you doing. Everybody got 123 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: rid of promise, everybody went to Facebook comments, everybody pivoted 124 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: to video, and then hey, they're lying about all the mentris, 125 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: all your stuff is on Facebook. That was but it 126 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: was the newest, shiniest thing, and I was like, that's 127 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: a bad dear. It's not about the newest shinest thing. 128 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: It's about who you serve, what you want to do. 129 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: Have you made sure that those are the people can access? 130 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: And I think that right now we're living in the 131 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: fall out of that. We're living in that idea of 132 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: we've created this myth of esoteric. When people ask me 133 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: to tell my involvement with tech, I always thought with 134 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: that it's because it was poor, it was because black, 135 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: and it's because I was working in retail that I 136 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: had that specific entry and this experience specific examination. And 137 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: I have education and all those experiences. But the the 138 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: only way I can describe it is having those melts. 139 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: You have to be all those things, and every user, 140 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: not just the ones with a high profile, not just 141 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: a verified one, every single user will have this kind 142 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: of story. Think of a universe that exists on screen 143 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,559 Speaker 1: or on stage. How is that universe fleshed out? Who's 144 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: the main character and who are the side characters whose 145 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: inner worlds aren't really fleshed out? Who has given a 146 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: point of view. The death's background and performance has shaped 147 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: perspective on the Internet. Namely asked her to interrogate who 148 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: is the assumed main character of online experiences. The problem 149 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: is that we have an Internet and platforms of lots 150 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: of casts of characters, but who we make point of 151 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: view characters? And that's a very big thing for me, 152 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: and often like people watch me and they're like, what 153 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: are you talking about? Like, we have to start thinking 154 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: about who we make a point of view character because 155 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: we have everybody on the Internet and this wealth of 156 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: gorgeous humanity, but you still think that the point of 157 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: view character is a white man between the ages of 158 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: five to sixty of a certain socio economic background, and 159 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: everybody else can only be up a point of view 160 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 1: character for a very short period of time or one 161 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: viral moment that is going to affect what we think 162 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: the Internet is and affects what our art is because 163 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: we are watching real time in the world about how 164 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: we can't abandon each other and how we cannot pretend 165 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: we are the only people that make our realities and 166 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: things like that because we are doing really badly because 167 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: we thought that was the way we need into one Yeah, 168 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a that's a good question. I have 169 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: something that I something that I um read in one 170 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: of your pieces was that we've designed an Internet that 171 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: does not look like the real world. Right. There are 172 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: not sex workers there, there are not people who they're 173 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: not working class people there. There are not people who 174 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: have disabilities there. We've designed this Internet as if these 175 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: people do not exist. But we know those people exist 176 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: in the real world. So I guess one of my 177 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: questions for you is, you know, what are some ways 178 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: that you see different experiences and identities just be completely 179 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: marginalized or suppressed on the Internet that you know exist 180 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 1: in the real world. I I I am a little 181 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: to answer that for because I think the justice was like, 182 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: we don't see them in the kind of focus point 183 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: of view way. They are always the underpinning, They are 184 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: the foundation of content. Their aesthetics have informed so much. 185 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: Anybody who tells you how Instagram developed does not involve 186 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: sex workers is a liar and a fraud Like that 187 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: person says that, and I'm just like, oh, you're lying 188 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: on the Internet. But the other thing about that is 189 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: that I am not a sex worker. And the first 190 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: thing is once and the first thing that I firmly 191 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: believe that if the thing I'm saying is that we 192 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:16,599 Speaker 1: need to see those people, I'm not the opposer is 193 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: supposed to be asking the thing we need to work 194 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: on the things that I wouldn't work on. It's like, 195 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: how do we have better spaces for those people who 196 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: are often already doing the work and developing the thing 197 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: to cover themselves and speak for themselves, as well as 198 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: how can we be effacal about it? How can we 199 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: protect their security? And what does it mean for that 200 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: to happen? That that And this is a thing where 201 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: we often go like when we people talk about content, 202 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: it's like we have all the content who gets forward, 203 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: our relationship with it, our desire to protect it is different, 204 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: and we do not honor how people want to speak 205 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: about it, from its creation to its access, to its 206 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:06,199 Speaker 1: um sustainability to its permanent And these are the kind 207 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: of and people offer go, oh, that's so meta, blah 208 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: blah blah. Sometimes it's just it's just as granular as 209 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: does it have close captions? Right? Does it have? Can 210 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: you delete it? Can you be forgotten? And they're made 211 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 1: meta when they need to be singular. And that's the 212 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: thing that I like to poke, and that's the representation. 213 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: Because subcultures change, trends change, morality changes, people live. How 214 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: do we give people the ability to access and melode 215 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: and create or where they are now? And how does 216 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: our media that we've created work for that? I think 217 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: that because of all the things that you've said, the 218 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: sort of I guess ephemeral nature of a lot of 219 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: the things that are online, I feel that I feel 220 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: strongly that our work, our contributions in terms of how 221 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: people have seen them as worthy of protection. It pains 222 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: me to think that so many of the things that 223 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: we have, that marginalized people have created online will not 224 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: be preserved unless we preserve it right, And so I 225 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: I I wonder, you know, how has that shaped our 226 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: understanding of the experience of being online? That we are 227 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: the only like we cannot trust anyone but ourselves to 228 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: lovingly preserve our impact when our impact has been so great. 229 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: I think that number one, this is an experience that 230 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: we've had in history. And I think that's why the 231 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: power of like like, power of librarians, and powers of 232 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: our chives are most important. Because we're picking and choosing 233 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: what to preserve. Let's take a quick break and our back. 234 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: For black folks, there's an urgency in preservation. We die earlier, 235 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: and our entire country was built on washing the way 236 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: our voices and legacies. We have to be intentional to 237 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: make sure our stories are told, let alone remember are 238 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: preserved as black people specifically coming from the Atlantic slaves, 239 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: trate and those like. We've had an experience of having 240 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: to create cultural lines and cultural limitage when they did 241 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: not exists, and when they do not when they where 242 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: they have been designed to be failed because that was 243 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: the project of building the world was help. Help was 244 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: getting us to build it without like honoring our contributions. 245 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: I think for right now is there has to be 246 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: I think very material in some things and the other 247 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: the other figures to that like even as I do 248 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: other work, I kind of like I started to leave 249 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: get the itches, like wanting to go back and do 250 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: library sciences and just like the basics like how do 251 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: you curate and how do you teach people to do things, 252 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: and how do you hold things and not necessarily interpret everything, 253 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: but leave people the space to be able to make 254 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: their own interpretations. Because we have to confront our mortality 255 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: and we have to confront death and you really have 256 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: to start asking, like people get exactly the face made. 257 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,599 Speaker 1: It's it's very it's heavy and like we're in it, 258 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: but it's like, what would you want to hand someone 259 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: after when you're done, and can you do it in 260 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: this current current? Things like we have I still have 261 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: a Bible, I have earrings or there are earrings for me, 262 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: I can't touch them from people I've loved. There we 263 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: go through and we see the books and the architecture 264 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: and all of that, and those are these are things 265 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: for what we want to be left behind. But we 266 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: also hear that in music and blues and how are 267 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: they compatible and not compatible with the ways that are 268 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: accepted to leave things behind and for us? And that 269 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: is a heavy question, but it's a question we have 270 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: to ask more and more now, and especially when we 271 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: are also being confronted with the reality of we die early. 272 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: M we lost two years as black people of our 273 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: life expect to see during this what I often get 274 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: upset with when we're talking about data intact of that. 275 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: Everybody says we'll get to what we'll get to, what 276 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: we'll get to it, and I'm like, we're dying early. 277 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: We have less money, things are more stress is more 278 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: likely to kill us. How much time do you assume 279 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: that black people have for you to be wasting and 280 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: playing in my face? But also we have created bridges 281 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: across time despite that, we exist in those multiplicities because 282 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: that's part of my family history where time is thought 283 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: us to be in generations, not just me you. Right 284 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: now we're all playing with those ideas of time, but 285 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: we're trying to fix what are the things we want 286 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: to hand, What are the relations again, the relationships we 287 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: want to have, And those are not just momentary in 288 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: terms of the tweets I just sent, but they also 289 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: and from across time. What are these things? And these 290 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: interventions are playing with and I think for marginalized people, 291 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: but specifically Black women, because that's how I walk this eve. 292 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: I have to. I am literally a living embodiment of 293 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: a moment in time from a line that I'm going 294 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: to try and transport through the people who I will touch, 295 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: who will live different realities in different spaces. And that's simultaneous, 296 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: asynchronous and safronous. And but right now we are very 297 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: concerned with the do we have, but are we going 298 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: to do enough in the time we have to make 299 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: sure there is a place to give and send because 300 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: the world's on fire and everybody's like, oh, we'll have time, 301 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: We'll have time because they're used to telling certain people, 302 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: people who look a lot like me and you and 303 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: who are the people that helped made us, that we 304 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: can always wait. And now that the fact that no, 305 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: it can't wait when they said that, that is now 306 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: circling up towards them. How do we light of fire 307 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: under people's asses to say we don't have like, where 308 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: do you think we're getting all this time? How do 309 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: we create more urgency? We don't uh me you specifically? 310 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: Are we live in this world? No? And it's um. 311 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: I think that that was glib, but I think for 312 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: most important it's that we have mutually we have pressurings, 313 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: but we are literally trying to stay alive, and everything 314 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: we do that tries to ensure our own survival tangentially 315 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: helps everyone else because we have yet to figure out 316 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: how true we save ourselves without saving everybody else, specifically 317 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: as black woman, I promise you if we ever, as 318 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: a collective black woman in fence, black people larger in general, 319 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: if we all got together and ever figured out how 320 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: we could do this without everybody else. I promise you 321 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 1: we would have chucked our deuces and left a long 322 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: time ago. Everything we do that is designed to keep 323 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,719 Speaker 1: us alive potentially helps everyone else, because in a lot 324 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: of ways, getting a black woman to be valued in 325 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: the way just humanely that other people are involves a 326 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: complete destruction or reassessment of the system. It does, It 327 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: just does. And I am and I walk, and I 328 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: changed back and forth because we're dealing with extraordinary times. 329 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: But everything turns into what more can we do? What 330 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: more can be done? And I'm just like, make what 331 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: I'm doing right now sustainable enough that I can actually 332 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: have the space to think forward. Until I have that space, 333 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: I've stopped responding to the what can we do? This 334 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: is something I struggle with so much in my own work, 335 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: in my own life. True, What what does it mean 336 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: to truly have space and to have time? I feel 337 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: that so often, even if I'm having a good experience, 338 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: I am filtering that through. You know, I should be 339 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: putting this on Instagram so that people know that I'm 340 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: doing this, or I should be you know, marketing this, 341 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: Like what does it look like to actually have time? 342 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: And I think that, particularly for black women in THEMS, 343 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: that looks we have like it's just a struggle. I 344 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: guess I'll put it that way. It's it feels like 345 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: a struggle to actually feel like I have the space 346 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 1: and time, like to even just rest, yeah, to even 347 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: just rest on my laurels, to be like, oh, I'm 348 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: I'm doing this and having this conversation. I'm doing this 349 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: work because I want to, not because it feels like 350 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: it's so urgent. I need to I need to be 351 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: moving to the next thing. Does that make sense? Yes? 352 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: If you there's the NEP ministry who I believe is 353 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: doing golf. Oh yes, And it's a hard thing and 354 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: it's just like this is again. It was like I 355 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: I very much loathed the idea of being the lone 356 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: expert in anything except what I'm actually an expert in, 357 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: and that's the thing that we're often not allowed. There 358 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: are times when, because I think that we also have 359 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: to confront the idea of like the hustle struggle. Lying 360 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: culture is bad for us in terms of how it 361 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: focuses on us in production to capitalistic values, but it's 362 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: also badness because it doesn't allow us to get a 363 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: real um extent of expertise, because there's a lot of 364 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: like when people talk about imposter syndrome, there's imposter syndrome, 365 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: but there's also a system that has told you over 366 00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: and over again that you are not valuable, you will 367 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: not be compensated for were value. And then there is 368 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: also just healthy self assessment and avoidance of Dune cruig 369 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: in the syndrome like I'm not the best person for 370 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: this does not necessarily mean that I am holding myself 371 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: back or whatever. That's just sometimes mean that I have 372 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: a good idea about the skills required for this, and 373 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: the humility to know I don't have them. That's a 374 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: gift you want. Oh, this is going to involve a 375 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: lot of math. I joined the High High i Q 376 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: Society because I couldn't pass math. I am wonderful and 377 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: great and smart and intelligence. But if people's lives develop 378 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: on me getting the math right, know what I can 379 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: do in the best essential of my humanity is tell 380 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: you immediately to hire someone else who will get the 381 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: math right. That's not me. And yes, there's like and 382 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: I think there's and I think often for me like 383 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: that focusing like on aposter syndromes and and often, like 384 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: a lot of literature becomes like like this is how 385 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: we are in comparison to mediocre white man and Bubba. 386 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: I'm just like, I have no desire to com prepare 387 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: myself to the mediocre. I have a better, stronger desire 388 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: to create the fantastic. I love that it's mediocre, Like 389 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: these people are so mediocre, but they get so far ahead. 390 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 1: M okay, and they're gonna continue being mediocre. How do 391 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: I make what's great? That could be from like a 392 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,479 Speaker 1: really good apple pie, that could be a really amazing 393 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: piece of software, that could be a stunning visual That 394 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: is all? That is where I think. Often I'm like, okay, 395 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: and I think it's bad because for our society, like 396 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: black women, for a lot of us, is like we're 397 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: constantly trying to create any The stress we feel is 398 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: because we don't. We don't have that space where it's 399 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: this thing of like I don't have I done everything 400 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: I can to get on, have I done everything I 401 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: can to what needs to be happening. And you feel 402 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: that because you don't feel secure what you have, because 403 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: you're not even you're making, you're making this as well, 404 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: I feel like it will go away I feel I 405 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: don't know if I'm making enough income this week, and 406 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: it's like, if you had those other things taking care 407 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: of you would have a better assessment of that. And 408 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: there's also the reality that I don't know what any 409 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: we are. I wouldn't ask anyone to make deep assessments 410 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: of what we're doing right now. We're all we're all 411 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: in stressed to traumatize. After the Capital insurrection, I feel 412 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: like we had an afternoon where people like seem to 413 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: be reflecting, and then the next day it was back 414 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: to the normal shittiness. You know. I'm so I'm so 415 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: sick of moments where yeah, for that day, people seemed 416 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,239 Speaker 1: to be really reflecting, and then the next day they 417 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: all woke up and we're the same with not worse. Well, 418 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: it's also like I looked at every single person they 419 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: trotted out as an ex expert and things like that, 420 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: and I was just like, everybody's white. Yes, everybody's from 421 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: the same force schools, And people are like, do you 422 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: want to be there? And I'm like, I don't know. 423 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: In some cases yes, because I have feelings and thoughts 424 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: that I want to get out. Because I've been talking 425 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,719 Speaker 1: about this for years and I have moments, but then 426 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: they're also scared that it goes back to the other things, like, well, 427 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: if you want to talk about it in like online community, 428 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: the things that I actually have expertise in, Yeah, if 429 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: you want to talk about it in the mechanics of AI, 430 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: if you want to talking about heavy duty legal, there's 431 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: no reason to have me there. My problem is is 432 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: that you have a wealth of people who should be 433 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: there who are not there, like they're talking about just like, 434 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: I am not the person you need to be talking to, 435 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: but you're not gonna ly in my face and tell 436 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: me you can't find a single black woman to talk to. 437 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: After a quick break, let's get right back into it. 438 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: Black women are rarely cited or centered in conversations about 439 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: the Internet, even about their own experiences things like online 440 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: harassment or the kinds of racialized disinformation campaigns that kicks 441 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: harder the Capital insurrection. These things overwhelmingly target black women, 442 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: yet we're rarely given the space to talk about its impacts. 443 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 1: The Death says that tech media let themselves off the 444 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: hook by writing black women like her office problems or 445 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 1: not likable or professional enough. It's us giving themselves license 446 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: to exclude our voices from the narrative, essentially blaming us 447 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 1: for our owner rature. Are you complained about my tone? 448 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: And I'm just like, my tone is very specific. I 449 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: chose a screen name that is kind of confrontational. I've 450 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: got a collection of cat tattoos and aesthetics that maybe 451 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: looking back now, I might have turned down the eile 452 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: on or maybe I might have turned the doll up. 453 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: Who knows, but they say something, and I'm aware of that, 454 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: the visual era, and we're aware of that, the packaging 455 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: brand era. You are not going to lie in my 456 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: very librarian inclined face and tell me you can't find 457 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: a black woman who does not have these signals, who 458 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: does not have this attitude, who does not have this tone, 459 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: but who is more than qualified and considered and thoughtful 460 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: to tell you similar things. You don't like me to 461 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: get their days. I don't like me, But if you 462 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,719 Speaker 1: actually like the work you define somebody you keep asking 463 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 1: pointing at me because it prevents you from actually doing 464 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: the work of finding somebody else. And I think that's 465 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: experience a lot of black women have. It's like, oh, well, 466 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: she's a problem, she's a problem. I'm like, yes, I 467 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: probably there, or she is, or maybe even I don't 468 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: like her. But if you care about what the work is, 469 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: you have a two prompt thing. If you care about 470 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: the work, and that is the expert, that is the 471 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: person you should be talking to. Stop trying to get 472 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: around talking the person. It's not about your like me, 473 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,479 Speaker 1: because you never seem to have that problem when it's 474 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: a white man. Some of these dudes are running around 475 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: being demons, demons on earth and actual fashions and racist 476 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: and but we can't go around them. Weird because you 477 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 1: always managed to go around the black woman or the 478 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: Asian woman or the Latin x um, that non binary 479 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: person that you all admit as an expert. But you 480 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: could find a way around them because they're difficult. But 481 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: you never find you never feel the same disposition to 482 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: that when it's a terrible white man. Eclipside of that 483 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: being oh you don't like that person. They're awful, they're problematic, 484 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: Yes they are. They you know what, they're some people 485 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: who I don't like them working with other people. They're 486 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: not nice, they're not kind, But you keep do you 487 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: keep involving them because it allows you to discredit for 488 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: the work, or you are completely right. There are seven 489 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: other people um all orientation shape sons like labors, who 490 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: are wonderful and competent. Go ask one of them. Go 491 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: ask them, because they're ready to work. You just you 492 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: create a roadblock where there isn't and you create a 493 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: roadblock because it serves you, and you created because it 494 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: serves you. But what we're asking you to run do 495 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: right now serve everyone else? Well, I think you. I mean, 496 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: something that you said that really sticks with me is 497 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: this idea of just who we hear from and who 498 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: we don't hear from, particularly as it pertains to talking 499 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: about online communities. You know, in the aftermath of the 500 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: of the interaction, like how many different experts from the 501 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 1: same four schools that we need to hear from, how 502 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: many different you know, like how many different outlets rush 503 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: to interview a Proud Boys member or a Q non believer, 504 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,199 Speaker 1: and just how little they center the people who are 505 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: directly impacted. So we didn't hear about the black women 506 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: who have been talking about online harassment since forever. Who 507 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: you know, if someone had listened to them, someone with power, 508 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: this whole thing might have gone differently. We just didn't 509 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: even have that conversation I and and this is where 510 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: my rude steps in. But people glove when I challenge 511 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 1: them on that to be like, well, I've just been 512 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: starting since two thousand sixteen. I was like, I had 513 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: my first run in with some of these people in 514 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: two thousands twelve and two thousand and fourteen. Tell me 515 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: you don't care and keep it moving, but do not 516 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: waste my time. Well, we know you were gonna reach outs, 517 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: like you told me in a tweet. I know. For 518 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: the other thing about it is because the work I 519 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,240 Speaker 1: tend to do tend to be designed spreads news or 520 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: research and archival. And this is a this is a 521 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: little quirk that I've had um for a while, is 522 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: that they're sometimes there's awful things about people who are 523 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: hiding from ghetto names and things like that. In HR 524 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: and how hiring works is that I have a very 525 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: kind of My name is distinct and it's hard to 526 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: find and because s c O Black woman, they shoved 527 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 1: me down visually. Four Now, if you google me and 528 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: you don't see a picture of my name, a lot 529 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: of people think I'm white a lot of because of 530 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: my name. If you don't see a photo and it 531 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,959 Speaker 1: doesn't surface a photo, people think of why and because 532 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: of my family with West Indians and my mother had 533 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: a very quitely odd um obsessions with speaking properly and 534 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: to the point that went until I was like a 535 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: certain age, I actually had a vaguely British accent and 536 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: it's something I able to fall to and like we 537 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: all code switched in like your professional voice, and you 538 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: sometimes will hear me doing it in this but it's 539 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: like when I'm like my professional voices, good afternoon, my 540 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: name is said death Harry, I will be your toxic 541 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: for the day. And if you're not looking directly at mine, 542 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: go to black face. People think what. So I've often 543 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: experienced this where folks will stay and talk to me 544 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: face to face when they're looking at me or about 545 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: things where when they see my abby and they will, 546 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: they will, and the different like they're just like, well, 547 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: you don't understand or you don't comprehend and maybe you 548 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: and and all of this, and I'm just like mm hmm, 549 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: and who are you citing? We and they'll sit an 550 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,719 Speaker 1: article I wrote for Model que Culture. Sometimes it's it's 551 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: happened to me once or twice, but why are now 552 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: and I was just like, you decided, what's that. It's 553 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,959 Speaker 1: a debt, Harry. And it happens to other women too, 554 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: but there is a specific racial thing for it sometimes, 555 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: or like someone who called me on the phone and 556 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: then meet me in person after I've done some research 557 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: and they're like, yeah, I spoke to this woman on 558 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: the phone's debt and she was and like that happened 559 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: to me more than once or twice. And I'm not 560 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: going to say when to protect people, but they were 561 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: just like, yeah, she had these really great faults. She 562 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: was really connecting it to manuscripts and other things. And 563 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: I was just like, uh huh. It's like, I know 564 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: you're And this is the person who actually started going 565 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: to like I know you're more social because they read 566 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: social media in some ways, especially for black women, they 567 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: read social media deftness as a fad and not a 568 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: skin like a lot. There are a lot of white 569 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: male journalists who are doing exactly what I was doing 570 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: in twenties now, and they're paid for it, Like they 571 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: barely write articles. They just tweet. For me, it was 572 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: a problem for them. It's a job, and they'll be like, yeah, 573 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: she talks about these things and and I was like, 574 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: very interesting. I'm to just like sit that Harry, uh yeah, 575 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: like and I'm just like and they're just like, oh, 576 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: so I'd like to follow you on Twitter. And I 577 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: was like, Okay, this is my screen in black Amazon 578 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: and they're like, wait your sit that hery? Yes, I 579 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: am daring. What is that? Like? Um? But it's the mind. 580 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: It's a mind black women experience. Like it's an interesting 581 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: like that's my version of it. But I believe they 582 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: are black women all over the space that has said 583 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: of like like there is a very like there's it's 584 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: for me the experiences. And I talked about the tattoos. 585 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: I got my tattoos later in life. All of them 586 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: started in the thirty and if you haven't gotten it yet, 587 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: be careful because like I got mine after thirty and 588 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: it's an addiction. I'm just like, I haven't had its 589 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: actually early a year and a half, y'all. But like there, 590 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: I was like I was talking to someone who was 591 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: probably a very well minded theorist, and they were like, 592 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: but at the oranges of the Internet. I was like, 593 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: let's talk about printy culture and mass communications and that's 594 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: my thing, and they're they're like, well, it's strange, and 595 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: like the person was very much hedging, and I was like, 596 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: because I have tattoos on my right farm, on one 597 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: of my my right warm is specifically designed to be 598 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: the type script for the first mass produced slave sheets, 599 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: which was also convincedly and oddly enough type script for 600 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: um the first really sarafants that were printed the first 601 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: full year of Shakespeare. Really we know it hard in 602 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: these streets, um me. But but it's also it's it's 603 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a telling part of our culture that, 604 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: like the mass production of the identity of Western literature, 605 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: was also the same mass production that was used to 606 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: retain black enslaved people, to create nations and create identities. 607 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: And I was and it's like, this is a and 608 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: these were people who are just like, well, it's not 609 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: professional and it's unprofessional. And I was and I was like, great, 610 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: it's not professional. That doesn't mean that I don't understand 611 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: the historical significance. But that is the thing that like 612 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: for me, I experienced sometimes visually tattoos, but I think 613 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: sometimes black women experienced it. With your speaking choices, your names, 614 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: are you really an engineer? I think all black female 615 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: engineers have heard experiences that like you you have to 616 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: put out more. You might do some performances or your 617 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: performing the cues are read differently, but you have to 618 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: do more work. And then the mind funck of that 619 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: is just like I don't know what it's like to 620 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: not have to do that. You and actions of your 621 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: life don't know what it's like to not do that. 622 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: That there is a world like there is a world 623 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: or there is an identity and experience that at some 624 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,479 Speaker 1: point people just believed what was true about you without 625 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: you having to do more than that. That's the screw up. 626 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: It's like, I'm at this point where I'm like, Okay, 627 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: we're gonna go We're gonna go around, You're gonna get it, 628 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna have to bread you up a 629 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: bit and whatever that is and that I can or 630 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: whatever can or cannot do it, that's the thing. But 631 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: I think the the the the mind screw is that 632 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: there is someone whose entire life they've never had to 633 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: do that. That's the thing because I'm just like, oh, 634 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: this happens. Like I've had men like just try and 635 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: upbraide me about and especially within tech, tech, media, tech 636 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: journalism as everybody gets silly moved into missing this information 637 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: and online harassment and I'm just like you are. So 638 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: people be like who if you knew? And I was like, so, 639 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: what's the number? One? Like there are two books that 640 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: were do your Times bestsellers? And it is also for me. 641 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: I've talked about this before. I feel like someone of 642 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: Jack asked, when I do that? Do you sign it? 643 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: Two books about New York Times bestsellers? Um, please go 644 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: to the acknowledgements for the dedications. That's gotta name, that's 645 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: gotta feel good, Like that kind of feel good in 646 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: a kind of way. That feels good because I've been eagle, 647 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: and it feels good because no matter what, I'm always 648 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: I'm a New York genre. I'm a New York shity, 649 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: always have been. And sometimes you've gotta let these people know. 650 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: That feels good on that level because you if you 651 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: you better ask somebody. But it also feels terrible because like, 652 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: these are experiences that were difficult, and these are relationships 653 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: and moments and rather than just believe towards the goal 654 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,720 Speaker 1: of no, we're trying to stop to stop the abuse, 655 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 1: We're trying to stop these experiences we get I've got 656 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: to spend thirty minutes or ten minutes or really uncomfortable 657 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,439 Speaker 1: situation of me looking and you like this, like tell 658 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: me more rather than us actually doing the work of 659 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: improving the thing. What would have happened if I didn't 660 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: have to go through that, if I didn't have to 661 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: pull out all the what happens? Like we talked about receipts, 662 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 1: but like the stress of receipts, what would happen if 663 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: instead of a day, a week, a month, a couple 664 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: of years of us having to pull receipts? How to 665 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: prove what happened? You just did the work. We just 666 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: got to do the work. Like that's the thing that 667 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: is very like, uh you want that moment? Like that 668 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: to me is the the the actual mine. Like in 669 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: those moments you realize how much and with time, you 670 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: realize how much energy you have wasted necessary and unnecessary 671 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: because like sometimes you need to do it to get 672 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: it done, and sometimes you do it out of reflex so, 673 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: but how much of that time is taken from the 674 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,799 Speaker 1: thing you want to do because and it goes out 675 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,919 Speaker 1: to the basically there for some people upward and there's 676 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: some people who are oh, they're like, there are some 677 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: people who like when they dressed them down, You're just like, 678 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: oh that was when I was a piece of odd. Go. 679 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: Girls don't like you. You get that like there are 680 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: some people who are sculled that there and it's a 681 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: beautiful watch the work and they then they enjoy it. 682 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: And I love the van and joy because they are 683 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: good at it. I might have some facility. I'm not 684 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: as good as they are, But for me, I'm usually 685 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: just tired. I'm like, okay, so we did that. Now 686 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 1: we're done. Like we don't know you you you, You're good, 687 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: You're you're good, You're good. Let's get to work. I 688 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: have to ask this is kind of a this is 689 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: kind of a random question, not related to I guess 690 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: it just sort of related. You are so yourself, you know, 691 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: even looking at you right now, You've got the print shirt, 692 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: these bold glasses. How did you find the freedom and 693 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 1: space to show up like this as yourself in this way? 694 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: How did you walk in this confidence? That's who you 695 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,080 Speaker 1: are in some of these spaces that you walk in. 696 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: There's a performance training. I am streaking line. I've done theater. 697 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,399 Speaker 1: I studied offer for nine years. I am very good 698 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: at the fake it or till you make it, or 699 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 1: ask for confidence and confidence to be given to you 700 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: when you're good at performance. And it's one of the 701 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: things I talked about. It's just like I'm often nervous. 702 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: They're my last, my last, one of the last big 703 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 1: speech I gave. I spent a lot of time on 704 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: the tables, and I was like literally with the person 705 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: I was talking to, like, oh my god, people, it 706 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: is a performance. You get up, you get ready. I 707 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,879 Speaker 1: was training that get up, get ready, give it, sell 708 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 1: it out. And then like the minute you step off stage, 709 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: you kind of cook, curling a ball and rock back 710 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: and forth. Um. Also, I've talked about it before, but 711 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: like my my I like theory. I like wanting stuff. 712 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 1: I like the combinations, like looking at the things and 713 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: just making them happen. That allows me to have a 714 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,399 Speaker 1: lot of interior time or time and stacks and time 715 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: and books to just beat myself. Some of it is 716 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: just like the way I was born, conclusion to be 717 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: having another option I am. We are not seeing people 718 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 1: in full body and like the pandemics discomfort were all 719 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: discomfort using weight Gangley. But at my general right now, 720 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: I'm about five eleven, two hundreds, so there's like not 721 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: a lot of I can hide in my person and 722 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 1: and that is a like I'm a tall human and 723 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: that and it seems like a strange thing to be 724 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: so formative, but for me personally, there's not there's not 725 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: a lot of option of camouflage. There's not a lot 726 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: of like, hey, I'm gonna walk into certain rooms unnerved, unnoticed, 727 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: and especially as a black woman. And I was, and 728 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: I was part of I'm from far Rock and this 729 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: is a underresource neighborhood. We have certain access that we 730 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: don't So I was in a lot of things like 731 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: one of the lonely only I couldn't hide in a 732 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: room I would be purposely ignored. But I'm going to 733 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: have to be this person. And the way I am built, 734 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: both physically and emotionally, was like I want to leave 735 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: this challenge or I want to at least get good 736 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 1: at faking it. Like people were like, I have such 737 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: anxiety sometimes about large groups of people. I know how 738 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,439 Speaker 1: to make that anxiety look like I'm working the room. 739 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 1: But it's like here, quick tip. If you really don't 740 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: like talking to large groups of people and you're in 741 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: a large groups of people. If you are very instantly 742 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: and personally find every single person and talk to them 743 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: for two to three with ups, it looks like you're 744 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: working through the room. You're actually working the runaway people 745 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: are like, she's the life of the party. That is 746 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: a specific thing for me. It was important for me 747 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: to develop a skill. I felt it necessary to develop 748 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:51,800 Speaker 1: a skill that I was going to be very solidly myself. 749 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: I was gonna be strong about it, I was gonna 750 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: be clear about it because I didn't have the option 751 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 1: for other things. One of the things that a lot 752 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: of some of my line thin people are like, Oh, 753 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 1: you're being mean and this person is so nervous and anxious, 754 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 1: and I'm like, what makes you think I'm not mhm, 755 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: Why have you decided that I'm not anxious? Why have 756 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,320 Speaker 1: you decided that I'm not scared? Or have you decided 757 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: that it's okay for me to be scared based on 758 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 1: what you think I am allowed to be Because there 759 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 1: have been a lot of times of oh, you're the 760 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: big men, move and I'm like, okay, no I'm not. 761 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,479 Speaker 1: Because while I'm talking to you, I'm on the phone 762 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,800 Speaker 1: with somebody else and I'm crying. I am heaving sobs, 763 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: like oh, Like there are times and a lot of 764 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: times with black women's like anybody who defends you, like, oh, 765 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 1: you're just seeking your people or your followers on them, 766 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: And I'm like, what would happen if you thought of 767 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: them as my friend? What would happen if you thought 768 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: of Some of the people who are saying back up 769 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 1: or leave me alone are saying that because they know 770 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: me as a human and they know that this affects me. 771 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,280 Speaker 1: What like, like what happens if my distress wasn't funny 772 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: to you or a topic to you? And I think 773 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,640 Speaker 1: that goes back to like what we were talking about 774 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,719 Speaker 1: for the subject. And a lot of this is that 775 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 1: people say black women, but they don't name them, And 776 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: it's the back to the citations of black women is 777 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,439 Speaker 1: like we become a concept, We become a they say 778 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: black women the way you would say pineapples or like fruit, 779 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 1: like oh fruits you or have this composition like not 780 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: but it's not sentient being. And with the engagement what's 781 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,879 Speaker 1: happening to us, it's along the same lines, like it's 782 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: very much we are a thing to be discussed, but 783 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,759 Speaker 1: we are not people with which these things have effects on. 784 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 1: They mean things and often being like, no, this hurts, no, 785 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,399 Speaker 1: this is scary, Like people I was like. People often 786 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: say like, oh, you're like oh, Like sometimes I told 787 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 1: you so is not an admonition, It's not a dunk. 788 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: It's a cry for help. Sometimes I told you so 789 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: is a question like their lives is like but we 790 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: told you or I told you so. It's like, I 791 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,719 Speaker 1: am not trying to be the smartest person in the room. 792 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: I really want to understand what was it about what 793 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: I said, what I said that didn't register for you, 794 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,279 Speaker 1: that didn't make you act and what would it take 795 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: for it to be something you acted upon? So that 796 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,920 Speaker 1: brings me to my to my big question. You know, 797 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 1: what could the internet look like if we listen to 798 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: black women and recognize our humanity and and centered us 799 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,680 Speaker 1: what what what could the internet be like? The internet 800 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:24,759 Speaker 1: would look like the world? The internet would look like 801 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: a world we actually live in. I would love to 802 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,320 Speaker 1: know what an internet that could distract It could honestly 803 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: describe the feeling of having a really good piece of 804 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: pineapple with loved ones at the edge of the beach 805 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: when you are exactly that moment because we were like, oh, 806 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: you invited to a product and it is exactly what 807 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,919 Speaker 1: you want in a space you want, or like when 808 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 1: you have ever read or heard something and it starks 809 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 1: something in you in that moment of just oh wow 810 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,719 Speaker 1: that What would happen or what would happen if the 811 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,040 Speaker 1: places where you bought your clothes showed people who looked 812 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 1: like you? Or what would happen if when you looked 813 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 1: at descriptions of your neighborhood it wasn't just the same 814 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 1: things or like those spaces at that time, or what 815 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,160 Speaker 1: would happen if when you when something said all access, 816 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 1: it was actually all access that you could sign into 817 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,759 Speaker 1: something and it wasn't about worrying whether or not you 818 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: had anything like you. When movies in cinema a big 819 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: thing and like those are, it's rough because those are 820 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,759 Speaker 1: some of the largest pieces of mass communication and the 821 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,719 Speaker 1: largest places we get culture one of the most resistance 822 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:54,320 Speaker 1: to talking about it in any way that does not 823 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 1: involved gatekeeping. But it's just like what would happens is 824 00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: when you walked in the movie theater, you knew you 825 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: could watch the movie For people who are visually and 826 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,279 Speaker 1: auditorily abled and mobility abled, we'd never have to think 827 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,560 Speaker 1: about that. There are so many people who do not 828 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 1: who have to think about that doesn't have hearing capabilities, 829 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: does it have visual descriptions or is that an only 830 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 1: one showing that is a that is a huge part 831 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,360 Speaker 1: of like if you're from the world and like that 832 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,879 Speaker 1: you're actually from the world, you're front you you went 833 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: into something that pretend that talked about the city you 834 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: lived in and the story actually looked like those people 835 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: you encountered in your life, or that if you went 836 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,280 Speaker 1: to a unlike movie, could just because they're both visual 837 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: and media concerts. But if you were looking at the showings, 838 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,640 Speaker 1: and we're looking at the showings in a big city 839 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: that had multiple languages and had people of multip language, 840 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,200 Speaker 1: when you looked at the cinema, you knew that someone 841 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: could come in and hear what they needed to hear, 842 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: or that at least one of those stories reflected them, 843 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,759 Speaker 1: and that wasn't they didn't have to worry about that. 844 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,319 Speaker 1: Those kind of tease outs and changes. And I think 845 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,800 Speaker 1: for me, the way I would close it is that 846 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: what would the world look like if they listen to us? 847 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 1: Is another question is what would listening look like it's 848 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 1: like there would be a constant conversation of making everything 849 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,239 Speaker 1: two do that, to do something new and to do 850 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,280 Speaker 1: something but not just profit off of it. And that space, 851 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: which is still in the videous and isn't an answer, 852 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 1: would be magical and I think that would lead to 853 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: multiple more conversations. But like I think of Pineapple by 854 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,880 Speaker 1: the ocean surrounded by people in a way to actually 855 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:47,120 Speaker 1: convey that in all of these mediums, and that's that's 856 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:48,960 Speaker 1: that's what happens. Like people will tell you how to 857 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:50,719 Speaker 1: sell that right now, we talk about how to sell it, 858 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,440 Speaker 1: how to influence, etcetera. But to actually convey to a 859 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,600 Speaker 1: person point to point, hard to heart, this is what 860 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,640 Speaker 1: it feels like for me and for you. And that 861 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,040 Speaker 1: is both like for me, you pineapple by the Ocean South. 862 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 1: But what if we had somebody who liked apples or 863 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 1: apples and the hills, it was a completely different thing. 864 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 1: And they will be like, and it's here's the thing. 865 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,400 Speaker 1: I want to know what that's that's that feeling is 866 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,279 Speaker 1: like I want to know what they think of that. 867 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,920 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily need to make them feel the same 868 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,160 Speaker 1: thing I do. But that's that to me is the 869 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,600 Speaker 1: CrOx of it, like we we what would we get 870 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,520 Speaker 1: if we actually move towards having those discussions and not 871 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,439 Speaker 1: about these whole influences? What and does what? Like? That's 872 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 1: the question for me, is that actually answers it, answers 873 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:40,759 Speaker 1: it beautifully. Now I want pineapple on the beach so 874 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,640 Speaker 1: that I cannot thank you enough for taking the time 875 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,520 Speaker 1: to speak. I wish I have chills your I don't know, 876 00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 1: I have something about the way you show up in 877 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,320 Speaker 1: the world is such a gift, and I yeah, I 878 00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,160 Speaker 1: I am so grateful that you are a human who exists. 879 00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,759 Speaker 1: Thank you, grateful for you? Oh please, no, but I 880 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,960 Speaker 1: am no. No, don't you dare, don't you dare? All right, 881 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,239 Speaker 1: this is a real thing. Every day we look at 882 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: black women and we are we are often feeling it alone. 883 00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: We feel we unseen, we feel understood, misunderstood, And every 884 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 1: day I get to look at you and I get 885 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,240 Speaker 1: to look at others and we're here and we're building. 886 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,920 Speaker 1: So I am grateful for you, and please understand that 887 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,279 Speaker 1: is honest and true and meant from the heart. You 888 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,239 Speaker 1: are amazing both for being bridget but also for being human. 889 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,840 Speaker 1: No one else likes you exist in this moment. I 890 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:35,160 Speaker 1: am thankful for that. Oh you cannot cry. You cannot cry, 891 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:40,320 Speaker 1: or I'll cry and then no, that's dope. Stop. So 892 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:49,600 Speaker 1: I appreciate you so much. If you've enjoyed this podcast, 893 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:56,600 Speaker 1: please help us grow by subscribing. Got a story about 894 00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,520 Speaker 1: an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi, 895 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,760 Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you at Hello at tango 896 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,360 Speaker 1: dot com. Dis Informed is brought to you by There 897 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,440 Speaker 1: Are No Girls on the Internet. It's a production of 898 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,560 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Unbossed. Creative Jonathan Strickland is our 899 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,280 Speaker 1: executive producer. Tory Harrison is our supervising producer and engineer. 900 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: Michael Lamotto is our contributing producer. I'm your host Bridget Tod. 901 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,040 Speaker 1: For more great podcasts, check out the iHeart Radio app, 902 00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,160 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.