WEBVTT - Ep39 "What is the future of AI relationships?" 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:10.440 What is the future of AI relationships? Could it be 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.760 the case that your relationship partner would be more satisfied 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:19.680 with a virtual version of you that behaves five percent 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.360 better than you do? Could you fall in love with 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:27.639 a bot? How does an aibot plug right into your 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.240 deep neural circuitry and what are the pros and the 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.279 cons of that? And what will it mean when humans 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.440 you love don't have to die but can live on 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:45.199 in your phone forever. Welcome to Inner Cosmos with me 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:49.120 David Eagleman. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:53.240 and in these episodes I examine the intersection of our 0:00:53.360 --> 0:01:10.520 brains and our lives. Today's episode is about relationships. Why 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.440 are our brains so wired for relationships? Why do we 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:18.760 want love so much? And will AI be able to 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.440 serve as a key to that lock and what does 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:24.200 that mean for us as humans. 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:26.839 So one of the things that's becoming. 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:31.479 Increasingly popular among young men is having an AI girlfriend. 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:35.560 You get to choose or set up a beautiful avatar. 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.400 And what do I mean by beautiful? That's up to you. 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:39.560 You can choose. 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.440 Any model that you want, with any sort of features 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:46.360 that appeal maximally to you. But that's just what she 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.800 looks like. The important part is the conversation. You start 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.280 talking with her, and typically this is just text chat, 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:58.680 but the technology is evolving into the upgrade of video chat, 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.639 where you see the avatars mouth moving while she speaks 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.960 to you. Now, typically the free or entry price gets 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:07.560 you an avatar. 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:09.960 Friend who lives on your phone and. 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:11.919 Checks in on you and says nice things to you, 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:15.800 and is available anytime that you want to chat, And 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:20.000 for a premium subscription price you can upgrade to a 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:26.040 steamier relationship. And here she'll text suggestive photos and she'll 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:30.519 say things that you might only expect from pillow whispers. 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.400 So the concern that people have expressed is whether this 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:38.720 is going to impact the next generation of males. Now, 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:40.840 as a side note, let me say that I suspect 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.400 this will have whatever influence it has on both genders, 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.240 on males and females, also straight and gay. 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:48.600 But I do. 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:53.440 Suspect that males will be the majority demographic simply because 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:58.480 males tend to be more visually driven than females. So 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.680 for the conversation here, I'm going to talk about it 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.240 the way that it's mostly discussed in the media and 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:09.040 in academic circles, which is straight males getting girlfriends this way. 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:12.520 But keep in mind this is a more generalized issue. 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.400 Now the question is what will this mean for all 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:22.040 future generations, because within AI relationship, you don't have to 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:26.200 go out and confront all the difficulty of a real 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:32.480 flesh and blood relationship. Real relationships get snippy, people get angry. 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.560 In real relationships, your. 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:38.160 Partner might develop a crush on someone else and leave you, 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:41.520 or hook up with someone else and you find out later, 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:46.200 or your partner might develop an illness, or she might 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:48.520 get a job somewhere else and have to move, and 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:52.080 then you're stuck in a lonely long distance relationship for 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:57.280 years or whatever. Relationships are full of challenges, the majority 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:01.080 of which can get circumvented with a nice algorithm that 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.720 is just content to listen to you all the time 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.440 and remember everything you say and give you one hundred 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:12.480 percent attention and always be nice. So my wife sometimes 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.080 jokes with me about wanting to build the five percent 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:20.039 better David. She has mostly as a joke, talked about 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.440 this issue of what if she could have an AI 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.440 avatar of me that is never distracted with work, or 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.599 never looks at my cell phone when it things in 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.000 the middle of a conversation we're having, or never wakes 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.640 up from a weird dream and has a funny morning, 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:41.600 or never argues over some misunderstanding that's later understood to 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.479 be stupid and meaningless. And she tells me that she 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.680 wants five percent better David to always tell her she's right, 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.400 even in those rare cases when she's wrong. The key 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.800 is that five percent better David never gets busy or 0:04:55.880 --> 0:05:01.640 occasionally snarky or forgets some occasion. Instead, he represents all 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.240 the best of me. And I'll just note that it's 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.520 very kind of her to label this five percent better David, 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:11.880 because she could say like ninety percent better and. 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:13.680 She'd be justified. Why. 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:18.200 It's because we are all very imperfect in relationships. As 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:22.320 I've talked about on other episodes. We are each living 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.640 on our own planet in the sense that we carry 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:29.720 our own internal models of the world, and as much 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.360 as we work to understand one another's viewpoints and motivations 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.559 and intentions, we're not always that good at it. Because 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:40.400 we assume that other people are seeing the world in 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.919 the same way that we do. They have the same 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:47.160 methods for sense making. They gather meaning in the same 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.119 way that we do, and we assume they generally hold 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:54.479 or should hold the same opinions about everything that we do. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:59.159 And this is because the brain is locked in silence 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:03.440 and darkness and has no meaningful direct access to the 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.720 outside world, and so it gathers up all its information 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.880 through its narrow windows of the senses, and it builds 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.600 its internal model from this very thin trajectory of space 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.440 and time that it walks along. And this is why 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.520 everyone is so different on the inside, and therefore why 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:29.520 relationships are always full of misunderstanding and often conflict. So 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:34.680 relationships are inherently tough. And the question is when would 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:37.520 it be a good thing if you could have an 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:41.839 artificial partner who represents all the best of what a 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.160 person can be. So a lot of people will immediately 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.120 say no to this idea, but it's worth noting that 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.800 we're all striving to be the five percent better versions 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:55.440 of ourselves. We don't want to be snarky or angry 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:58.279 or distracted when a loved one is talking to us. 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.640 It's not like we get some extra pleasure out of 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:01.000 doing that. 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.520 And it's not like the relationship gets some extra boost 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.480 or closeness from that having happened. 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:09.840 So presumably this is. 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:14.240 All part of why AI relationships have become a thing, 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:18.840 a possibility that we talk about nowadays. In Japan, many 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:23.800 young men apparently already prefer to have relationships with their 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:29.360 digital assistants or avatars or holographic girlfriends instead of dealing 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:31.640 with the complexity. 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:32.880 Of real life relationships. 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:38.480 And according to research, gen z is more readily predisposed 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:44.040 to seek out relationships with AI generated avatars first because 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.280 they're comfortable using the technology in this way compared to 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:53.240 previous generations. And also they're participating less often in traditional 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:58.280 social activities like regular family dinners or attending religious services 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:04.040 or playing sports. And the question is, if AI relationships 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:09.320 were to catch on broadly, what will this mean for society? 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.800 Will kids actually stop going on dates because they can 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:17.720 find better relationships online? And this is a real question 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:24.080 because there are many startups currently blossoming to create chatbot 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:25.520 driven connections. 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:27.040 I'll give you one example. 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.600 There's a twenty three year old influencer with almost two 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:32.120 million Snapchat followers. 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.959 Her name is Karen Marjorie, and earlier. 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:38.600 This year In May, she released karen Ai, which is 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:43.640 an immersive AI experience featuring videos of Margie that she 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.880 says provide a quote virtual girlfriend for those who are 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:50.760 willing to pony up one dollar per minute. Now, this 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:55.480 is what's known as a companion chatbot, and she tweeted 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.520 that quote karen Ai is the first step in the 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.800 right direction to cure loneliness between continues. 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:03.280 Quote. 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.920 Men are told to suppress their emotions and not talk 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:08.480 about issues they're having. 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:13.640 I vow to fix this with karen Ai. She says she's. 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:18.400 Worked with leading psychologists to seamlessly include the right therapies 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:23.840 to quote undue trauma, rebuild physical and emotional confidence, and 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.840 rebuild what has been taken away by the pandemic end quote. 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:29.720 And by the way, as a side note, I think 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:33.880 AI psychologists are going to be a truly important part 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:37.280 of the clinical landscape by next year because you can 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:39.920 have a therapist that you can talk to twenty four 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.360 to seven, and the therapist never gets distracted or flustered 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:47.760 and only cares about you and has a perfect memory 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.800 for everything you've ever said, which is better than anybody 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:55.400 else in real life. So back to AI girlfriends or boyfriends. 0:09:55.760 --> 0:10:00.400 The same idea applies here, which is that they are complete, 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.160 devoted to you, and always in a good mood and 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:09.000 only have you in mind. So what are AI relationships 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.280 going to mean? Well, I think this is going to 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:16.199 be a research question that sociologists and psychologists will study 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.760 for the coming decades and centuries. The initial studies are 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:25.320 suggesting that people, mostly gen zers, are moving closer to 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:30.720 the technology to avoid the unpleasant realities of human relationships. 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:35.760 All the tough stuff. Is that detrimental? Well, it could 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:40.280 be if it makes your human relationships harder, because maybe 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.080 every time you guys have an argument in real life, 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.000 your partner thinks, well, forget it, I'm bagging this. I'm 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.480 going back to my comfort zone. So the concern, as 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.800 you can probably guess, is that the rise of AI 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:58.120 driven relationships could exacerbate loneliness because they seem to be 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.120 a meal, but they provide no calories. 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:02.559 And I'll come back to that in a moment. 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:07.720 In other words, AI generated avatars could interfere with the 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:12.720 relationships that young people are just learning to foster because 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:19.080 the AI relationship might breed dissatisfaction with flawed humans. And 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:22.600 this applies not only to lovers, but even to friends. 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.040 It might be easier to have AI friends who aren't 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.480 busy when you need them and can give you one 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:32.000 hundred percent of their attention whenever you need it. And 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:36.240 let me throw in a different potential problem with AI relationships, 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:38.800 So give me one second to take this tangent here. 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.480 I was thinking the other day about the Fermi paradox. 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:48.320 The Fermi paradox is given the size of the observable cosmos, 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.040 with over one hundred billion galaxies, and each of them 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.400 with one hundred billion stars, and each of those surrounded 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.400 by some number of planets, what is the reason that 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.920 we have not heard from any other alien species yet? 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.160 And one of the proposals that's always been there is 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:12.319 that maybe as civilizations become more technically advanced, they end 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.199 up killing themselves. And this is why we haven't heard 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.320 from other smart civilizations, because they. 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:19.480 Are already gone. 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.600 And every time I've seen this proposal, it's always in 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:26.560 the form of warfare, things like nuclear bombs. They end 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:31.360 up wiping themselves out. So civilizations become smart and it's 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:36.439 not long before they disappear. So in thinking about AI relationships, 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:40.600 it struck me as a possibility that if we had really, 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:45.920 really great relationships with avatars, perhaps that would cause the 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:49.680 birth rate of the species to collapse. I don't know 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.600 if this has been proposed as a possible answer to 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.920 the Fermi paradox, but maybe this should be included, not 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:01.040 civilizations disappearing because of bad things, but instead from having 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.400 too much of a good thing, which could fool and 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:27.640 eventually overwrite or mandate for reproduction. Okay, so no one 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.280 knows what the long term effects will be of these 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.440 AI relationships, but I don't actually think the situation is 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:39.079 as dire as some of these arguments suggest that it is. 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:42.400 And I'll make two arguments to this end. The first 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:48.040 revolves around human touch. We are deeply wired to care 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.240 about touch. I'm going to do a whole episode on 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.520 touch in the near future, but the bottom line is 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.360 that touch helps us to connect with others, to feel 0:13:56.360 --> 0:14:00.640 safe and secure, to regulate our emotions. When you get touched, 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:04.120 your brain releases oxytocin, which is a hormone that has 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:09.280 calming effects and bonding effects, and oxytocin helps to reduce 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.760 stress and anxiety. It can even boost your immune system. 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:18.000 So we need touch to feel connected. And loved, and 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:22.000 a lack of touch leads to loneliness and depression and anxiety. 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.160 So we're deeply programmed for touch and also things like smell, 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:30.280 and so it would presumably be quite lonely if all 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.480 you had was the five percent better partner on a 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:38.960 screen and you're just exchanging text messages or just an 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.240 avatar you can look at on your phone, or maybe 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.720 even in the near future you'll have a three D 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:47.280 avatar projection in your living room, but you won't have 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:51.400 the hand squeeze and the hug and other forms of 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:56.960 physical intimacy. Now, I assume people are working on AI 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:01.120 robots that can provide touch, even something simple like touching 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.080 your shoulder or laying a hand on your hand, and 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.760 I can't imagine that it's going to be too hard 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.760 to do, and it'll probably be not that great at first, 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.520 but after a few tech cycles you can imagine it 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:16.440 could get pretty good. But in any case, at the moment, 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.400 if you have a girlfriend who just lives in several 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.320 square inches in your phone screen, you're going to be 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:28.359 missing out on this fundamentally needed aspect of human communication 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.240 that our brains seek. So the depth to which our 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.480 brains are wired for touch suggests to me that the 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.880 reach of AI partners into our lives is going to 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:43.440 be limited, because at least is currently devised, their algorithmic 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:48.680 reach never actually contacts our skin, and so that will 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.000 be continued to be sought. 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:52.120 Now. 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:56.120 The second point to raise about whether AI partners can 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.640 displace real human partners is that there's a sense in 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.440 which which fake partners have always been around. Just look 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.080 at a book, look at a movie, look at any 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:11.920 TV show. You have beautiful Hollywood actors and actresses, and 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:16.840 they have flawless skin and perfectly quafft hair and no 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.720 hair where they shouldn't, and they have glittering white teeth. 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.240 They are the epitome of health, and they always say 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.760 the right thing, and you get to be the protagonist 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.280 and enjoy experiencing that relationship. 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:31.720 You find the. 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.000 Partner, and lose the partner, and then an act five 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:38.640 you regain the relationship with an epic kiss. This kind 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:42.680 of fake relationship in books and movies isn't exactly the 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.200 same as an AI relationship, but it has some similarities. 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:52.080 They both represent a platonic ideal, a perfect relationship with 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.920 someone who always says the right thing. We never see 0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:00.440 a love interest in the movie who is distracted or angry, 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.119 or interested in someone else, or just really busy with work, 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.440 too busy to spend time with you when you need them. 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.920 You never see a love interest in the movies who 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.359 waste a lot of time taking selfies and trying to 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:18.119 build a meaningless reputation on TikTok. People have no meaningful 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.639 foibles in a good love story, in a book or 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:26.119 on television. Now, I've often wondered if we, in a 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.679 sense get cursed by the fairy tales we're surrounded with 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:31.720 when we're looking for actual love. 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:32.959 But I don't know. 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:37.480 Perhaps those fairy tales help us past all the difficult 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.399 stuff in a relationship. They get us to ignore the 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:44.920 imperfect things because we believe so strongly in the possibility 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:46.760 of a perfect relationship. 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:48.120 So think about it this way. 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.880 Say you were a space alien who had never watched 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.760 or read a love story, and you had no concept 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:57.560 of that. And the question is when you met someone 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.760 which you think, Wow, they seem to have very different 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.399 opinions than I do. They think like this, and I 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.399 think like that, And they also spend some fraction of 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:08.680 their time getting snippy at me or staring at their 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:09.719 cell phone or whatever. 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:13.040 So there's no way this can work. I don't know. 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.040 I'm just speculating here, but I do wonder if seeing 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:20.119 lots of models of love stories gives us the tools 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.760 to view things in a more optimistic light, and that 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.960 actually gives a chance to make the relationship work. In 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:33.359 other words, it provides some aspirational glue where otherwise things 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:34.679 would just fall apart. 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:36.320 Now, the counter. 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.959 Argument, of course, is that all these fantasies set you 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:44.120 up with false expectations about love and relationships, which makes 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:48.200 it harder to keep the relationship together once you see 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:53.879 some degree of realism and disenchantment sets in. In any case, 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.760 even if we do get cursed by these fairy tales 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.480 in some way, it's still the case that there's nothing 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:05.480 new about fantasy relationships. Now, maybe you argue this is 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:10.040 different because instead of the Julia Roberts movie that everyone watches, 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:14.399 it's now something that is bespoke just for you. It's 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:18.440 a one on one relationship, And maybe that's an important difference. 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:21.560 But just keep in mind the way that we humans 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.600 enjoy literature is by living inside the story. You are 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.880 essentially having a one on one relationship with Julia Roberts. 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:33.840 So perhaps it's not the privacy of the relationship, but 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:38.240 instead the meaningful difference with an AI relationship is the 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:42.320 bi directional nature of it. Instead of watching a movie 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:46.399 where you're simply hearing other characters say lines and Julia 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:50.000 Roberts responds, you are now the one coming up with 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.960 the lines. You are deciding what to say. So maybe 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:58.040 this makes a difference. I suspect it enhances the degree 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:03.040 of the fantasy. We have yet to see whether AI 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:07.399 will meaningfully replace people's pursuits of other humans because it 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:11.040 is touchless and smellless, and it's not clear what the 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:15.520 impact is of holding fantasy relationships because we already do 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:19.280 that with book characters and movie stars. So this is 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.919 going to require many years of real world data to 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.280 get a real bead on the impact here. Okay, Now, 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:29.199 whatever you think about AI companions, I have noticed in 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.840 conversations with my friends, especially those who are married, a 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:37.240 question that floats quickly to the surface. Is it cheating 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:40.520 to have a relationship on your phone with a non 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.800 real person? And there are different levels, of course of 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.000 what an AI relationship could be what if it's just 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:50.520 an app like replica that checks in with you like 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.919 a friend who cares about you, and you can just 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.119 chat innocently with it. This is the free version of 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:58.800 the app okay, So that's one level. But what if 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:01.600 you go in for the paid verse, where the conversation 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.320 with the avatar becomes more spicy, And what if the 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:10.959 cartoon like avatar is highly attractive and dressed provocatively and 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:15.679 is extremely suggestive in what she says. So I've informally 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.159 surveyed several married friends about this, and it seems clear 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:23.879 that opinions are all over the spectrum. Some wives and 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:27.359 husbands feel fine about having their partner have an AI 0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:31.720 relationship on the side, and others said no way. Now, 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.959 for those who said no way, this is presumably because 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:38.960 the issue plugs into very deep circuitry in their brain. 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:42.600 It's interpreted as a threat to the relationship, and we 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:47.919 are hardwired to fight against that. From an evolutionary perspective, 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:50.919 what you want is for your mate to stick around 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:55.359 and provide resources and child rearing, and anything that represents 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.879 a threat to that is to be fought against. Now, 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:02.440 the part that seems here is that an AI avatar 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:07.600 would not represent a direct threat in this evolutionary sense. 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:12.240 You can't go and impregnate or be impregnated by AI, 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:18.440 but nonetheless your attention might be stolen away to some degree, 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.160 possibly to a large degree, and beyond an evolutionary threat. 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:24.520 A big part of what people get out of a 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:28.679 relationship is the love and the attention that we all crave. 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:32.439 So many people feel that they just don't want the 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:35.479 AI bought to steal away even a fraction of that. 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:38.840 A partner only has so much love and attention to 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:41.600 give in a day, and you don't want half of 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:46.239 it getting siphoned off to someone or something else. This 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:51.280 shares some similarities to the situation of a person having 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:54.119 an X that they still talk with, and if a 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:57.920 person talks very intimately with their ex, a spouse might 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:01.400 feel like she or he doesn't really love that. Now 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:04.040 when it comes to the X, if you were making 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:08.199 the evolutionary argument, you could argue that the fear is 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:11.399 that on a lonely night, in the middle of a conflict, 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:14.520 your partner might make a bad choice and slip back 0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:18.320 into a physical relationship, and so that relationship with the 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:23.000 X feels like a threat. But obviously the kernal cheating 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:26.320 can't happen with the AI bought, and yet the fear 0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:29.159 is still there. So that indicates one of two things. 0:23:29.359 --> 0:23:36.080 Either are evolutionarily programmed deep fears simply can't make that distinction, 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:40.159 or it doesn't have to do with a future threat 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:43.560 of physical infidelity, but instead it's just this issue about 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:47.960 somebody else having that emotional intimacy with your partner, which 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:49.040 steals away. 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:50.960 Attentional resources from you. 0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:55.040 Now this gets more interesting when we start thinking about 0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:58.880 having physical robots that can play a role in your life. Now, 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:00.439 this is probably not going to have happened in the 0:24:00.480 --> 0:24:04.360 next few years, but fast forward a century and certainly 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:08.400 everyone's going to face this scenario. Your partner can buy 0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:11.199 not just a mechanical device or blow up doll, but 0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:16.760 can now have a convincing and attentive physical partner. So 0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:19.000 the question is what if your spouse can get not 0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:24.480 only the emotional intimacy but also the physical intimacy. So 0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:27.399 the people I surveyed about this who found the AI 0:24:27.480 --> 0:24:30.919 bought online a threat seem to find this idea of 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:35.679 an AI physical robot even a larger threat. Now, the 0:24:35.760 --> 0:24:37.840 interesting thing is that I can point out that there's 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:40.440 a sense in which none of this is different from 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:44.120 what their spouse might do anyway, in terms of finding 0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:48.359 adult content on the internet and cheating in that way. 0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:52.160 But I think people have a reaction to internet surfing 0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:55.439 for the same reasons as they have the reaction to 0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:58.639 the AI bot, which is simply that there is less 0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:21.600 time and intimacy an attention toward them. This certainly won't 0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:24.560 apply to everyone, but the very general impression I've had 0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:28.720 from talking with people at different stages of marriage is 0:25:28.760 --> 0:25:31.800 that at the beginning of a relationship, people have a 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:36.520 stronger reaction against AI relationships. They don't want their partner 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:37.640 to be distracted. 0:25:38.359 --> 0:25:39.240 But people who have. 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:41.680 Been in a relationship for a long time and have 0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:45.080