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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bell Cast. Hey, Jamie, yes, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: I made some barbecue and also a man might be missing.

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Speaker 1: But the two things have nothing to do with each other.

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Speaker 1: Do you want some of my barbecue that I made?

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Speaker 1: I'm going vegan? Is it vegan? It's well? Um, is

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Speaker 1: there a reason it wouldn't be vegan? Well, barbecue tends

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Speaker 1: to have animal byproducts. Okay, Okay, you know what you

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Speaker 1: sold me. I'll try it. Okay, it's gonna you're gonna

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Speaker 1: love it. It's the tastiest barbecue you've ever had taste.

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Speaker 1: It's a little tough. This has been a fun role play.

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Speaker 1: We could have just kept going, and why don't we?

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Speaker 1: What an episode we have for you today? This is

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel Test. No, no, oh my god, I fund

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Speaker 1: I found like people who are reviewing us who haven't

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Speaker 1: actually listened to the show, They're like, it's the Bechdel Test.

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Speaker 1: Is the Bechdel Test podcast? Right, That's what it's called.

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Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan, it's the Bechdel Test. You're just like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're a liar, Okay, Um, how polite Southern politeness. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this this is our show where um we use the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel Test as a jumping off point for discussion to

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Speaker 1: have an intersectional conversation about some of your favorite movies

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Speaker 1: in the entire world. Truly, Yes, well what what on

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Speaker 1: earth is the Bechdel test? Though? Well, if you don't

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Speaker 1: know what the Bechdel test is, does that ever happen

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Speaker 1: to you? Caitlin, Like, I feel like something that has

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Speaker 1: happened to me many times where people don't know and

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Speaker 1: I have to explain it, know that they're pretending to know,

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Speaker 1: but they're calling it the Bechdel Test over and over

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Speaker 1: and over, and it's very clear that they haven't listened

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Speaker 1: to the show, which is fine to say that for

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Speaker 1: the name of the podcast. Yeah. Yeah, all the time

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Speaker 1: we've done, we've been guests on other people's podcasts where

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Speaker 1: they're like, she's the host of the Bechtel podcast. I

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Speaker 1: mean they're like, not wrong, but it's not right. The

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Speaker 1: best one is when we did this show in London,

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Speaker 1: Brag remember going places? Uh, and they put out a

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Speaker 1: Marquee that said the Women in Film podcast, and we're like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is all this is. Again. It's not incorrect, but

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Speaker 1: it's weird to list a theme instead of a title. Um.

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Speaker 1: In any case, the Bechtel Test is a media metric

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Speaker 1: invented by queer cartoonist Alice and Bechtel, sometimes called the

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Speaker 1: Bechtel Wallace test, that requires the following for our purposes.

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Speaker 1: There's many permutations at this, but for us, UM, we

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Speaker 1: need two non male characters to speak to each other.

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Speaker 1: They also have to have names. I'd like to go back.

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Speaker 1: They speed to each other about something other than a

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Speaker 1: male character for two lines of dialogue. Does it usually

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Speaker 1: happen in movies? No? Not a lot today? Yeah? Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's my other favorite mistake that people make when they

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Speaker 1: explain my podcast to me is that they say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you and Caitlin talk about whether a movie passes the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel test for two hours. I'm like, what would that

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Speaker 1: conversation be? Like we go through every single minute of

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Speaker 1: the movie and be like, well, does that did that scene?

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Speaker 1: Did that exchange past? Yes? No, okay, let's move on

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Speaker 1: to the next one, and do you have any observations

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Speaker 1: on this. Okay, let's move on. What if we just

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Speaker 1: did that for all of Indiana Jones and we're just like, okay, minute,

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Speaker 1: no women, no women, let's move on, and only what

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Speaker 1: about just like a taboo buzzer just like you know,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was mostly buzzer. That's what I thought.

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Speaker 1: The podcast was just dings and buzzer. Oh yeah, we

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Speaker 1: should have been implementing that from day one. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why we didn't think of that. So we're talking.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about Fried Green Tomatoes today. And the voice

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Speaker 1: you just heard is that of comedian journalist, host of

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Speaker 1: news Broke on a J Plus, host of the Bituation

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Speaker 1: Room podcast. It's Francesca Fiorentini. Hey, welcome, man. I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to talk about this film. Thanks for being here

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Speaker 1: we're site. Thank you for having me. It's a it's

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Speaker 1: a treat, and thank you for bringing this movie to

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Speaker 1: This has been a fairly popular request. It's been requested

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Speaker 1: to us many times over the years. And it's the day.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking about Fried Green Tomatoes. What is your

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Speaker 1: history with this movie? Okay, so I watched this when

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Speaker 1: it came out, so ninety one and I was like

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Speaker 1: eleven ten around then, but kind of like, yes, I

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Speaker 1: missed some of the jokes around like women examining their

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Speaker 1: own vaginas and like marriage marital stuff. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was me just like looking at my Teddy bear, like

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Speaker 1: totally you know, like one of my I don't didn't

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Speaker 1: really get that, but I definitely understood how moving, how

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Speaker 1: important this film was, what it meant about female friendship,

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Speaker 1: how men are trash? Um? Have you read the book?

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Speaker 1: Has anyone read the book? I? We have not read

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Speaker 1: the book, but I have read a lot about the book.

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Speaker 1: There's there is a lot of really really interesting, complicated

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Speaker 1: context between the book and the film, and I'll have

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Speaker 1: a good adaptation discussion. That's that I have not read

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Speaker 1: the book. Should I wish? I cool? We're all in

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Speaker 1: the same boat. Um, But yes, we have a fair

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Speaker 1: amount of context about the book. My document is horrifying

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Speaker 1: this week. Oh we're so Southern polite, We're so polite. No,

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Speaker 1: after you, after you? Oh, thank you, thank you. Um.

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Speaker 1: I saw it for the first time. It was one

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Speaker 1: of those movies that as a young film student in college,

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is an important movie. I need

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Speaker 1: to see it. I need to have seen it in

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Speaker 1: my life. I watched it once as a freshman in college.

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Speaker 1: I want to say I was one of those ones

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Speaker 1: that I saw but don't know how much I was,

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Speaker 1: like actually paying attention to it. I only remembered the

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Speaker 1: cannibalism at the end. Yes, I suffered the same, only

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Speaker 1: remembering that this movie. Yes, I remember enjoying it. Um.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times I will remember my response, my

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Speaker 1: emotional response to a movie, more than I remember the

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Speaker 1: movie itself or the story or anything like that. Um,

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Speaker 1: I remember enjoying it, but I just didn't I had

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Speaker 1: no recollection of what the story was about, and I

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Speaker 1: had only seen it that once. All you had for

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Speaker 1: years was just secrets in the song right in your head.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, and I'm curious to hear back from

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Speaker 1: our listeners. I feel like this is actually something that

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Speaker 1: pretty common in terms of just how I don't know

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Speaker 1: sometimes with with movies, no matter how well done they are,

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Speaker 1: and this movie does a lot of things very well,

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Speaker 1: uh that there is just one completely unrelated thing taken

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Speaker 1: away from the movie that people are like, Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: what I remember. And I also only remembered the cannibalism.

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Speaker 1: I saw this movie. I have like a very lovely

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Speaker 1: memory associated with this movie, in spite of the fact

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Speaker 1: that I don't really remember what happened obviously, But my

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Speaker 1: grandma showed me this movie. Um. She was the best.

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Speaker 1: She loved showing us movies that she liked and talking

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Speaker 1: loudly throughout them, which is probably why I don't know

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Speaker 1: anything that happened in the movie. But this was like

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Speaker 1: a movie that I watched at her house in Maine

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Speaker 1: when I was like maybe, I don't know, like maybe

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Speaker 1: maybe around the same age like tennis, when you're allowed

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Speaker 1: to start watching these movies, um, but like with your relative.

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Speaker 1: So I watched it with my mom and my grandma

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Speaker 1: and I didn't get along, but they got along for

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Speaker 1: the duration of this movie, and it was really nice memory.

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Speaker 1: And I missed my grandma. And I didn't remember anything

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Speaker 1: that happened in the movie except for the cannibalism. Maybe

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Speaker 1: that just has to do with being very young when

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Speaker 1: you see this movie. We're so I mean, for sure

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Speaker 1: a great deal of it was over my head. And

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Speaker 1: also my grandma was most likely just talking at volumes,

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Speaker 1: screaming about how cannibalism was going to happen. That's my

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Speaker 1: I love how you're like these movies when you are

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Speaker 1: allowed to watch them, and by these, I mean movies

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Speaker 1: about cannibals. Remember that time when your grandma and grandfather

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Speaker 1: just sat you down, like you're like, okay, honey, it's time.

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Speaker 1: There is like there was like a time I think

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Speaker 1: it was around the time I was like between nine

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Speaker 1: and eleven, where like my mom, because my mom was

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Speaker 1: very in control of like my media diet, and she

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Speaker 1: would be like, Okay, we're gonna start introducing mature themes,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like this was like one of those movies

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Speaker 1: light petting, light petting, light petting, cannibalism, cannibals, maybe just

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Speaker 1: the idea of cannib but the kind of a lighthearted

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Speaker 1: cannibalism by a very villainous character. So you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: who cares, which is a feeling I uphold to this

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Speaker 1: day about the cannibalism. Um. But in any case, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about what happens in the movie. Yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: So we start in rural Alabama in the I believe

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Speaker 1: it's set in the eighties, I think it, and when

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Speaker 1: the book was written, so like, yeah, movie comes out

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Speaker 1: in ninety one, but yeah, I think it's sort of

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Speaker 1: a period piece by like four years um and we

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Speaker 1: meet Evelyn Couch a k a. Kathy Bates or Queen

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Speaker 1: Um and her her husband ed Um. They go to

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Speaker 1: a nursing home to visit his aunt, who hates Evelyn,

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Speaker 1: so she starts to wander around the nursing home and

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Speaker 1: runs into a woman named Mrs Threadgood, but she goes

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Speaker 1: by Ninny, and Ninnie starts to tell a story about

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Speaker 1: a murder that took place many years ago. You're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's a little Julie and Julia. It's a bit of

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Speaker 1: a story within a story which I also fully did

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Speaker 1: not remember me either. I did not remember that, but

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Speaker 1: I thought Kathy Bates was right there with everyone else.

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Speaker 1: I was wrong. I feel like the parallels between Fried

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Speaker 1: Green Tomatoes and Titanic are many there. And you also

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Speaker 1: mentioned you also mentioned at the notebook as a movie

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Speaker 1: with parallels. I saw some parallels. Portrait of a Lady

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Speaker 1: on Fire. Also, the poster for this movie kind of

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Speaker 1: leadsy to believe that all four of the female leads

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Speaker 1: are together in the movie because they all on the

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Speaker 1: poster and it's kind of photoshop to make it seem

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Speaker 1: like they're together. Looking at the post where you would

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Speaker 1: believe that it is for women and a freight train

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Speaker 1: that star in the movie. I just see a green

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Speaker 1: tomato in this poster, but it does make me think

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Speaker 1: that a tomato is the main character, so I would

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Speaker 1: get I get the confusion. I will send it to

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Speaker 1: the chat. One of the main posters for this movie

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Speaker 1: is for women in a freight train, and you do

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Speaker 1: have to hand it to them for not putting a

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Speaker 1: single man on the poster, but also being like, we

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Speaker 1: have to include the train, the murderous train. Perhaps the

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Speaker 1: train keeps it's killing some teenagers, it's ripping limbs off

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Speaker 1: of kids. This train hates men, this feminist dot com,

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Speaker 1: this train train, this train listens to the beach dil cast.

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Speaker 1: We don't indoors killing beloved brothers and sons. I think

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Speaker 1: that the actions of the train weren't rather ruthless, and

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Speaker 1: especially because the men and boys who get killed or

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Speaker 1: injured in the story seemed to be perfectly nice and respectful.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't choose her targets very well, that I'll say

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Speaker 1: about this train. She needs to like there are men

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Speaker 1: in this community who deserve to be hit a train.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we there are many members of the KKK

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Speaker 1: who should have been there's the clan, and there's cops,

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Speaker 1: and there's racists. Yeah, but they're just hitting people. In fact,

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Speaker 1: this train seems to have a very specific fvendetta against

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Speaker 1: people named Buddy. That's true. This train. I'm quickly not

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Speaker 1: on board for the train anymore. What was she thinking? Bad?

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Speaker 1: Bad train? Bad trad? Okay? Also, I was like, is

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Speaker 1: it progressive for the sudden death of a teenage boy

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Speaker 1: to change everyone's life? Because in every movie it's we

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Speaker 1: have to kill Shaleene Woodley, or how is this guy

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Speaker 1: going to learn a lesson? And we have to kill

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Speaker 1: Mandy Moore in a Walk to Remember? Or how is

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Speaker 1: this guy going to learn a lesson? In this one,

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Speaker 1: we kill Chris O'Donnell with a train right away, and

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Speaker 1: then she learns the lesson of I'm a lesbian. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if Chris o'dollig getting hit by the trade

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Speaker 1: teaches her that, but it does move things in that,

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Speaker 1: you know, it keeps these characters together. Okay, So what's

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Speaker 1: happening in the story? Um Ninny. Ninny starts to tell

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Speaker 1: a story from her past to Evelyn Ak Kathy Bates,

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Speaker 1: and we cut to a flashback as she's beginning to

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Speaker 1: tell the story. We are now in post World War

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Speaker 1: One era. We meet i g Thread Good, she's a

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Speaker 1: little girl, she 's a tomboy, and then we also

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Speaker 1: meet her beloved older brother Buddy. Buddy is in love

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Speaker 1: with Ruth Jamison, who is playing what from the Bug?

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um. That is not the

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Speaker 1: case in the book, um, but in the movie they

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Speaker 1: are little love birds. Ruth is played by Mary Louise Parker,

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Speaker 1: and one day they're all out for a stroll and

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Speaker 1: Buddy gets his foot caught on the railroad track and

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Speaker 1: he is struck and killed by this bad train. It's

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Speaker 1: extremely old timey and sad, especially because you see a

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Speaker 1: very quick shot of him finally pulling his foot out

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Speaker 1: of his boot, and I think he's gonna survive, but

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Speaker 1: then he's still killed, and I was very confused on

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Speaker 1: the physics of that. It was a strange editing choice

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Speaker 1: to incuture him getting out of the boot. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that was a part of the book the

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Speaker 1: way it was edited. I thought that he had survived

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Speaker 1: and maybe would be like injured but okay, but they

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Speaker 1: were like, Nope, he didn't. He's dead rip yes, and

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Speaker 1: he's on the train tracks because he's trying to get

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Speaker 1: Ruth's hat is starting to blow away, and you're like

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Speaker 1: in either like this is bad. This is bad. What

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Speaker 1: if the train and the hat are working together and

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Speaker 1: it's like collusion and they're trying to kill all the

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Speaker 1: Buddies of the world. Yeah, crime, green tomatoes, this is

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Speaker 1: this is the most things named Buddy, I feel like

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Speaker 1: our dogs. Let's just be yeah, Airbud, Yeah, exactly, Airbud.

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Speaker 1: Because we just roasted the editing on this movie. I

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Speaker 1: just did a very the quickest Google of my life.

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Speaker 1: Brag uh. And so there is a female editor on

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Speaker 1: this movie. Deborah Neil Fisher. Her resume is so extensive.

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Speaker 1: She edited Sonic the Hedgehog this year. She she edited

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Speaker 1: two thirds of the Fifty Shades of Gray franchise. She

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Speaker 1: edited every Hangover movie, she edited Baby Mama, she edited

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Speaker 1: all of the Austin In Powers. She she's just She's

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Speaker 1: edited You, Me and Dupre She's edited all sorts of movies.

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Speaker 1: So just if you were worried that she lost work

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Speaker 1: because she showed Buddy getting out of his boot and

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Speaker 1: confusing us. Um, she did not fine, She's fine. In

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Speaker 1: every single one of those films, someone is hit by

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Speaker 1: a train. I think if the Common Thread, that's her

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Speaker 1: signature thing, even if it has nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: the movie. She edits it into the movie. She right, Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: editors are often you know, the real authors. It's weird.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember Sonic the Hedgehog ever getting hit by

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Speaker 1: a train, but in this movie he does. I think

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Speaker 1: of all the movies, that's the one I would definitely

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Speaker 1: assume it happened. Dupre for sure get hit by a train.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you me and what name a fifty Shades

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Speaker 1: movie were to go to? Johnson doesn't get hit by

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Speaker 1: a train. It's it's her trademark. It's okay. So back

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Speaker 1: to the movie. Um, he is He's killed by the train,

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Speaker 1: and g is heartbroken over this. Um. It's also around

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Speaker 1: this point in the story where we formally meet Big

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Speaker 1: George um, as well as less formally meet his mother

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Speaker 1: Sipsy Yep. They are two black people who work for

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Speaker 1: the Thread good family because they're like a rich, wealthy

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Speaker 1: white family who has help, and Big George does a

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Speaker 1: lot to look after a g specifically. Um. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: the story is unfolding, but just then Kathy Bates his

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Speaker 1: husband comes in and interrupts typical man, and we see

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Speaker 1: them go back home a little bit. Evelyn Couch has

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Speaker 1: been going to these marriage counseling classes. I think she's

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Speaker 1: kind of trying to connect with Ed better, but he's

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Speaker 1: not into it. He does not appreciate her. This whole

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Speaker 1: plot point will come back to it and only counseling

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Speaker 1: women all together, not couples. Yes, the husbands are not present.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no, no, Ed is asked nothing, which I appreciate

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Speaker 1: that commentary, but they I feel like the movie kind

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Speaker 1: of goes out of its way to make women trying

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Speaker 1: to get in touch with their sexuality better to seem

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Speaker 1: ridiculous and perhaps hysterical. I didn't like how those were framed.

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Speaker 1: Sure anyways, Yeah, we'll talk about it. Um. So then

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Speaker 1: sometime later, Evelyn goes back to the nursing home and

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Speaker 1: here's more of the story from Ninny. So we flashback

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Speaker 1: to i Gy, who is all grown up now, and

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Speaker 1: she is Mary Stuart Masterson and she has not really

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Speaker 1: recovered from the loss of her brother Buddy and Ruth

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Speaker 1: who again was Buddy's young love, comes around and befriends her.

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Speaker 1: We see them getting into all kinds of high jinks.

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Speaker 1: They're giving out food to poor people. There's a scene

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Speaker 1: with Honey and Bees, they play poker, they get drunk

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Speaker 1: to other things like that. I love the b scene

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Speaker 1: so much it truly I was brimming with anxiety. And

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Speaker 1: though the movie never makes this explicit, it's pretty clear

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Speaker 1: that Igy is a lesbian who is falling in love

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Speaker 1: with Ruth, and Ruth also loves her well. And we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about all of this later. But um Ruth gets

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Speaker 1: married to a man named Frank Bennett, and we already

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Speaker 1: know from the beginning of the story based on what

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Speaker 1: Ninny said, this is a murder mystery about ig being

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Speaker 1: accused of murdering Frank Bennett, but we don't yet know

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Speaker 1: how or why or when or anything like that. And

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Speaker 1: then we meet Frank Bennett and we're like, thank god

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Speaker 1: he got murdered. Yeah, he is a truly, truly a

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Speaker 1: piece of ship. So she goes off newly married. They

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Speaker 1: moved to Georgia, and after a few years, ig drives

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Speaker 1: to Georgia to pay Ruth a visit and discovers that

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Speaker 1: Ruth's husband is physically abusive, so Ig gets Ruth out

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Speaker 1: of there with the help of Big George and says

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Speaker 1: to Frank, if you ever touch her again, I'll kill you. Ruth,

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Speaker 1: who was pregnant when she left her husband. I'm sorry. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Ruth who was gregnant? That's right. Sorry, I

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Speaker 1: don't mean. I don't mean to like tone police, but

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Speaker 1: you did say that word. I said the word in correctly.

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Speaker 1: She was gregnant with a greg named Buddy Um. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's just his nickname, though his name is Gregg Um.

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Speaker 1: And then g and Ruth open a restaurant, the whistle

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Speaker 1: Stop Cafe, where they served fried green tomatoes. I love

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Speaker 1: the name of the movie and barbecue that Big George makes.

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Speaker 1: This becomes important. Frank shows up a couple of times

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Speaker 1: trying to get his baby. His baby. One night we

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Speaker 1: see him. One night, we see him being knocked out

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Speaker 1: by a shovel I think, which he then presumably dies

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Speaker 1: from because, yeah, he's trying to kidnap a baby. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's got baby basket in the hands. He's about to

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Speaker 1: make away with the baby. He's also a member of

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Speaker 1: the KKK. We find out so we are not sad

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Speaker 1: that he dies. Later, some police from Georgia show up

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Speaker 1: to the cafe to see if Ig or Ruth know

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Speaker 1: anything about Frank's disappearance, and they're like no, and he's like, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't trust you, but I do love your barbecue,

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Speaker 1: Nom nom nom. And then Ig tells Ruth like you

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Speaker 1: don't have to worry about Frank coming around anymore, and

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Speaker 1: is like, well, did you kill him? And she's like, no,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know, but I know he's for sure dead,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, but I definitely know he's dead, but I

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Speaker 1: want I felt for Ruth in that moment because she's

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Speaker 1: just like, Okay, I don't think you're a murderer, but

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Speaker 1: you're saf doing an awful like a murderer and Mary

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Speaker 1: Stuart masters and it's like, just be cool, please stop asking.

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Speaker 1: Then several years passed and one day Frank's pickup truck

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Speaker 1: is found in a river, so I Gy and Big

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Speaker 1: George are arrested for his murder and she has tried,

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Speaker 1: but the judge throws out the case because he's like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, Frank just probably got drunk and drove into

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Speaker 1: the river by accident and got eaten by river creatures,

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Speaker 1: which it seems like i Gy is such a beloved

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Speaker 1: person in this community that the judge kind of just

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Speaker 1: didn't want anything bad to happen. Like that was my reader.

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Speaker 1: It was the role of the priest, remember, right, because

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Speaker 1: the priests kind of lie and then the judge kind

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Speaker 1: of did a bad job. But it like worked out

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Speaker 1: the way it should have, right, it works out well

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Speaker 1: for the characters who we are rooting for. But I'm

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Speaker 1: also just like, is this how the justice system worked

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Speaker 1: in nine? Not at all? Definitely, if there was a

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Speaker 1: black man accused of killing a white man, he probably

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have gotten enough. And especially if there was a

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Speaker 1: white woman who everyone knew was gay, that's not what

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Speaker 1: would have happened. But look, this is Hollywood, all right,

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Speaker 1: this is fantasy. This is amazing. That's why this movie rules.

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Speaker 1: Things turn out the way they should. Yeah, and like

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Speaker 1: human flesh breaks down into a great sauce somehow that

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Speaker 1: no one can taste. You know, we don't know, we

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Speaker 1: have we ever tried to ask the train We don't um,

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Speaker 1: But yes, justice was served to the characters who we like. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: back in the present, Evelyn has begun this journey of

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Speaker 1: kind of self liberation. She's knocking down walls in her house,

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Speaker 1: She's crashing her car and other people's cars. She goes

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Speaker 1: back to see Ninny, who continues the story about Egene Ruth.

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Speaker 1: Ruth has gotten sick and dies of cancer, which is

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Speaker 1: so sad, heartbreaking. I was bawling. It was, yeah, story

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Speaker 1: of the ducks. Yeah, the duck story. I'm like, this

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Speaker 1: story is so boring and I don't get it, but

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Speaker 1: I'm crying. Um. And then back in the present, Evelyn

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Speaker 1: thinks that Ninni has died, but it turns out that

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Speaker 1: it was just Ninny's roommate at the nursing home who died.

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Speaker 1: So Evelyn goes to find Ninny, who tells Evelyn the

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Speaker 1: final bit of the story, which is that it turns

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Speaker 1: out it was Sipsy who killed Frank Bennett and I

399
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 1: Gy and Big George. Do they barbecue his body or

400
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 1: do they turn his body into the sauce? I was

401
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: not super clear about that. There is a long night

402
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: of like Robert Durst style dismemberment that takes place that

403
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Speaker 1: we don't see, but they go full dirsk that night,

404
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: and we just don't have to watch it, and I'm

405
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: fine with that totally. In any case, they feed his

406
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: remains to the cop who had been investigating his disappearance.

407
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: So that's like the big reveal at the end of

408
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: the movie. Hence the cannibalism that Jamie and I remembered. Yeah,

409
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 1: that's the story. Let's take a quick break and then

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Speaker 1: we'll come right back and we're back. Uh. That sounded like, Hey,

411
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Speaker 1: what's that movie? They're back? What we're back? A dinosaurs?

412
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Speaker 1: Oh that's Poultergeist. We're here. No, No, we're so young,

413
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: so we just don't know. Um, yeah, I think it's Poltergeist.

414
00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: Sounds right, but she says something like they're He's I

415
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: think a good place to start talking about this movie

416
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: is the way it was adapted, because I feel like

417
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: that leads into a lot of the discussion that kind

418
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: of needs to be had about this movie. So there's

419
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: there's so much context for this movie, and a lot

420
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: of it is very interesting and some of it is

421
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: kind of frustrating. So we have the very rare example

422
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: here of the author of an original work co authoring

423
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: a screenplay that is amazing. Fannie Flag who I wasn't

424
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: familiar with her, but now that I learned more about her,

425
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: she's awesome. She is. She is a queer writer and

426
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: comedian who like got started in the sixties went on

427
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: to become a really popular game show personality on Match Game.

428
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,959
Speaker 1: If you grew up watching Game show Network with your grandparents, Uh,

429
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: that was a thrill. And later in her career was

430
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: openly uh an out lesbian who had I mean just

431
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: a murderers row of girlfriends. She dated Rita may Brown,

432
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: another really famous queer writer, and a fit really famous

433
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: soap opera star named Susan Flannery. If you want to

434
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: look up the relationship between the three of them, it's

435
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: very interesting. Not necessarily not relevant to the podcast, but

436
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: I was hooked in any case. She wrote this novel

437
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: in and then was approached by the director of this movie,

438
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: John Abnett, to write the movie herself. She had never

439
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: written for the screen. I feel like this is very

440
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: rare for any marginalized writer to get an opportunity to

441
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,719
Speaker 1: go from zero to writing their own screenplay of their

442
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: own work. Um, so that's incredible. She enlists her friend

443
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: Carol Sobieski, who also wrote the script for Annie. Uh.

444
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: They work on it together. Carol unfortunately passes away before

445
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: the movie comes out, but they are both honored with

446
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: an Academy Award nomination, so it's a it's a beautiful

447
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: story in that way. What I do think is interesting

448
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: is um. And again we haven't read the book, So

449
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: if you have read the book and you have a

450
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: more detailed, nuanced take, I'm just going off of the

451
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: academic pieces I was able to find about the adaptation

452
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: of this. And although Fanni Flag is an openly queer writer,

453
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 1: there seems to be a lot of debate on UM.

454
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: I mean, for sure, in the movie it is coding, coding,

455
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: coding till the end of time, coding. In the book,

456
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: there does seem to be a little bit of debate.

457
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: It is definitely less coded, but it is also never

458
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: explicitly stated. There are some fans of this book who

459
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: say it is not coded. It is very clear, but

460
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: the wording that Fannie Flag uses is a little obscure,

461
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: so there are some people that argue that it's still coded.

462
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I have read the book. It's my

463
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: understanding that the word lesbian never appears in the book,

464
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: but other pretty specific indicators that we'll explicitly say that

465
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: they are a couple who are in love and romantically

466
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: involved are very present in the book. So there's again

467
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: the debate gets kind of really nuanced because people who

468
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: are fans of this book are like, go super hard

469
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: and I was like in some forums and yes, so

470
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: from just what I read, it seems to me like

471
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: it is not coded in the book. But they also

472
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: like people who are like, well, they never like kiss

473
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of physical interaction or affection shown

474
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: in the book, and so some people are like, it's

475
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: not it's not explicit enough because they are not like,

476
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: you know, they're they're a married couple that aren't kissing. Hello,

477
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: you know. So there, there's all that. But there are

478
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: these very like to me, like very romantic passages that

479
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, read this book. Um, there here's

480
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: a quote from the book. Oh and also the word

481
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: like wife, girlfriend, partner that never comes up. Uh. They

482
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: are pretty exclusively called friends and business partners in the book.

483
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: So you know, if you're a fan of the book,

484
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: let us know. So, okay, when Igy this is from

485
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: a scene when ig Um is upset that Ruth is

486
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: leaving to go Mary Frank Bennett towards the beginning of

487
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: the book and she says, oh, no, you don't love him,

488
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: you love me, you know you do. So it is

489
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: it is way more explicit of like, don't marry him,

490
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: stay here, be my girlfriend. But so, wow, that's very

491
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: different than the movie. Yes, yes, so I think it's

492
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: really interesting, like an interesting case study that Fannie Flagg

493
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: wrote both that passage and this movie where the relationship

494
00:30:52,480 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: is presented very differently. Ver that said, this movie did

495
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: win a glad Award for portraying a lesbian relationship. So

496
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: it was I think clear to queer audiences what this

497
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: movie was. But it isn't explicitly stated, even less so

498
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: in in the movie than in the book. But it

499
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: also it's I don't know, it's kind of it's it

500
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: was an interesting watch because like watching it, you're just like, oh, yeah,

501
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: they're obviously in love and they're like, you know, this

502
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: is like this longstanding you know, marriage, they have a

503
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: child together, like it's they raised a child together, they

504
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: run a business together. Very yeah, but but it, I mean,

505
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: it's coded. I couldn't remember looking back, and when I

506
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 1: rewatched it, I couldn't remember whether they ever kissed and

507
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: the time when they would have kissed. I think is

508
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: when they were like drunk and lying by the river

509
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: bank and talking about how she's going to probably have

510
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: to get married soon and they know yeah, I mean,

511
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: I mean she kisses around the cheek and then Ruth

512
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: does and then jumps into the water and it's all

513
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: very oh my god, it's it's lovely, but but the

514
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: relationship is so deep even though there is i mean

515
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: physical they're like they have a food fight, and that

516
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: food fight was the director, director John Avnett saying I

517
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: think on the DVD commentary that he wasn't he intended

518
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: for that food fight to be seen as symbolic of

519
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: love making yeah, which which I do think is first

520
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: of all, it's like, um, sir, how are we supposed

521
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: to know that it is? It is like a really

522
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: sweet scene, and I love Mary Stuart Masterson and Mary

523
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: Louise Parker plays so well off of each other. I

524
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: like fully by that they are in love and they're

525
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: like it's so sweet. But it's like, if you're a viewer,

526
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: in're like they were in a food fight. That was

527
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: not It wasn't. They weren't like, you know, like, it

528
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: wasn't that was him like, that's sex. You're like, sir,

529
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: have you heard of sex before? In any case, if

530
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: you view if you know that that is how he

531
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: was thinking of that scene. It is kind of interesting

532
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: to watch because right after they are like caught having

533
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: a food fight, the cop friend comes over who is

534
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: pursuing Igy and says like, this isn't right. Women shouldn't

535
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: be doing stuff like this. And if you're reading the

536
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: scene as a food fight, it's a very strange comment

537
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,479
Speaker 1: to make. But but if you're reading it as, uh,

538
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: they have a relationship with each other, I do believe

539
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: that that's how he viewed that scene. I just think

540
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: that it's weird that he thinks that that that is

541
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: an extremely clear read for a viewer, because I don't

542
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: think it was. But I love that scene. It's very sweet.

543
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: I love I love them. I just think all the

544
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: all the language in the film that refers to ig

545
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 1: is both it's like ninety nine one and then very

546
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 1: Jim Crow South like forties fifties language around like she's different,

547
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: she's a little weird, she's not like other girls. You know,

548
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: she wears pants, Like there's just a lot of like hilariously,

549
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: you know, skirting around the fact that she's gay and

550
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: pretty much everyone knows it. It is funny. There was

551
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: a lot of elements of Igy's character that reminded me

552
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: of Katherine Hepburn characters. Um where, like so many Katherine

553
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: Hepburn characters were just thoroughly, thoroughly thoroughly queer coded, and

554
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 1: it was through like the tomboy aesthetic. It was through

555
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 1: like all these coded phrases that yeah, that are just

556
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: frequently used to just avoid letting a queer character be

557
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: a queer character. I also found an interesting Mary Stewart

558
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: Masterson apparently is the realist one of all time, because

559
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: I was able to find an interview that he did

560
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: in with queer writer Kate Arthur, who also wrote a

561
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: really great piece about this movie and just breaking down

562
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: what it meant for its time. But she does a

563
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: great interview with Mary Stuart Masterson and it straight up asks,

564
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: like you know, she says, because she loves this movie.

565
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: Kate Arthur is like, this is a like a movie

566
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 1: for lesbians, like don't you agree, essentially, and Mary Stewart

567
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: Masterson responds with like some kind of like righteous frustration

568
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 1: and says that okay, so I'm just reading from Kate

569
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: Arthur's piece here. The movie is, as Masterson once told me,

570
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: quote unquote redacted. So Mary Stuart Masonson says, quote it

571
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: wasn't a love scene, but they were like clearly a

572
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: love relationship type of fight or jealousy. There was some

573
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: more sensual kind of stuff in there. We were clearly

574
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: playing that. So they're deleted scenes from this movie that

575
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: make the relationship more explicitly clear, even though it seems

576
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: like much like in the book the language of you

577
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 1: are my wife, this is our marriage that was certainly

578
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: not going to be in the movie, but like relationship

579
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: scenes were in this movie and then later cut. She

580
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: goes on to say, at that time it was just

581
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: about friendship. I think at the time when it was released,

582
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: if it had been labeled frankly that way, I think

583
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: the fear was maybe that it would have alienated all

584
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 1: the people, older Southern women who had those kinds of permanent,

585
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: lifelong friendships, the aunts who lived together but never married,

586
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: would have been alienated from watching it and allowing themselves

587
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: to love the characters. I think I think that they

588
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 1: might have been afraid. So that was Mary Stuart Masterson's take,

589
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: and she is just generally frustrated that they weren't allowed

590
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: to be in a relationship, because she says, Mary Stewart

591
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: Masterson and Mary Louise Parker were like, yeah, we were

592
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: the characters were in a relationship, and we played it

593
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: that way right. So I don't know though that responds

594
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: from Mary Stewart Masterson, like I appreciate her frustration, but

595
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: her thinking it's going to alienate like old southern aunts

596
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,839
Speaker 1: who lived together romantically. That threw me a little bit,

597
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: like I don't think that's who it's going to alienate, Like,

598
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: if anything, they would be the people who would potentially

599
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: connect most to this movie. Like, if it's going to

600
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: alienate anyone, it would be homophobes, which in was a

601
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: large portion of the population. So like, to me, it's

602
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: clear that the movie was trying to play it safe

603
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 1: and appeal to a larger audience by making the relationship

604
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: between it Gy and Ruth way more like subtextual and implicit.

605
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: The movie is very feathered edges. I mean it sounds

606
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: the story is cool. I bet the book is way

607
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 1: better because the movie version is super hollywood ified, like

608
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: you know, que music and yeah, We're not going to

609
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: get too deep. We don't know the relationship. Like, it's

610
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 1: just it's not edgy. It's probably not what would have

611
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: even though it's igy, but not edge um, not what

612
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: might have done to the story exactly. So going even

613
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: deeper on what so, I was like, Okay, well, how

614
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: does Fanny Flagg feel about this? Because she wrote a

615
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: queer novel that does you know, goes all the way

616
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: up to the line of saying, these are this is

617
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,919
Speaker 1: the relationship, this is a marriage that takes place. How

618
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: does she feel about the changes that were made to

619
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: the movie? We know movies get written all the time

620
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: and ship gets cut out, and so it's not like

621
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 1: this is you know, her complete script that was shot, right,

622
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: But she again kind of surprises you with what her

623
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: answer is. She she has said kind of throughout that

624
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: she was basing ruthan Igy partially on relatives in her

625
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: own life. She's from the South. She said it was

626
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: based at least the idea for them having a business

627
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: and running a business came from her family and not

628
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: a queer relationship. But she's she's a queer writer writing

629
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: about a queer relationship. So in any case, Uh. Someone

630
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: asked her this question, like, how do you feel about

631
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: the relationship being far less explicit, and she says to

632
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 1: Entertainment Weekly, quote, it's a mainstream movie. People are taking children,

633
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 1: they're taking old people. It speaks to everybody. That's why

634
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 1: it's wonderful. They can make up their own minds. Which

635
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: is very much the vibe of the reviews of this movie,

636
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: because I was curious about, like, well, how did an

637
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: audience receive it was your average you know, film bro

638
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 1: Journalists just kind of like not picking up on it,

639
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 1: like what was the vibe? Almost every review I read,

640
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: we're well aware they're like, oh, this is a queer relationship,

641
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: but they kind of tow the line in the same

642
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: way that Fanny Flag does and says, well, you can

643
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: see this as a relationship or not. Either way. I

644
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: liked the movie, but it's very like wishy washy in

645
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: the way that it's approached. Um, you would think that

646
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: would have just dropped after they didn't win an oscar

647
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: and feel like, you know what, fuck you, it was

648
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: gay the whole time. Yeah, there's like this review from

649
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: thy Ber that says, uh, it's also an Entertainment Weekly.

650
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,760
Speaker 1: He says like in the novel Tomatoes, uses female friendship

651
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: as a metaphor for something taboo. But the story is

652
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,439
Speaker 1: in no way diminished if you choose not to buy

653
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: into it. There are hints of earthly desires. Nevertheless, I'm like, Okay,

654
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: the most virginal thing I've ever read in my whole life.

655
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: But but, but, like that is kind of the tone

656
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: of how this movie was received by critics. Of like,

657
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: I really liked it. It seems like there's a queer relationship.

658
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: I didn't think about it too hard night night, Like

659
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: that was just I had. I have a couple additional

660
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 1: quotes from Fannie Flag about the movie, saying that quote,

661
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 1: it's not a political film at all. It's about the

662
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: possibilities of people being sweet and loving each other. Another quote,

663
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: It's a story about love and friendship. The sexuality is unimportant.

664
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: So but even outside of the queer relationship, it's very explicit.

665
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: We have political film, like and a book. So yes,

666
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: on a number of levels, Yeah, exactly. I'm the most

667
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 1: interested in what this queer relationship meant and means for

668
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: Evelyn in the eighties, Like what Evelyn if Ninny told her,

669
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 1: Like yeah, so then we slept together, you know, would

670
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: she be like you, you know, when she freaked out? Like,

671
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: I'm curious in the book how they play it for Evelyn.

672
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: You know, is Ninny sort of dampening down that part

673
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: for Evelyn? Does it say anything about Evelyn's sexuality and

674
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: her relationship with Ed? I have to be honest, I

675
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: kind of like don't care that much about Evelyn or

676
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: her life. I do. I'm like a fan of that character,

677
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: and we can we can talk about her and a bit.

678
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, that is that is something I hadn't

679
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: fully considered because like Evelyn does go through this sort

680
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 1: of like liberation, and like, is that due in part

681
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: to kind of learning about this queer relationship and because

682
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: a lot of what I G does in addition to

683
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: having a woman as her lover, Um, she's challenging the

684
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: status quo in many other ways as well, Like you know,

685
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: how she presents herself, how she dresses, she doesn't go

686
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: to church, she drinks, she gambles, she plays baseball, she fishes,

687
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: She does a lot of things that would have been

688
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: considered unladylike by like polite society and especially in this

689
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: era and especially in this region. But yeah, she's like,

690
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: she's like funk all that, I'm gonna do whatever the

691
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: hell I want. I'm cool. That is an aspect of

692
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: her character that I really appreciated. I love her, I

693
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: love she reminds me of a Katherine Hepburn character. But

694
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 1: the twist is she doesn't have to marry any old

695
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 1: guy at the end, like she doesn't have to marry

696
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 1: Carrie Grant, I mean even down to the and this

697
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: is like a trope that I'm kind of less fond of,

698
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: but it does kind of line up with that Katherine

699
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: Hepburn parallel I'm trying to draw her of, Like she

700
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 1: is like the wealthy daughter of a white family that

701
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: understands like the working man, and that that is like

702
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: another hallmark of that kind of character archetype that I

703
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: g kind of plays to a t here where she

704
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: does come from a lot of privilege, but she's she's

705
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 1: not like the other girls. It's very is yes. Well,

706
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: what I also what I think is particularly interesting about

707
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: this whole situation and adaptation and what gets omitted and

708
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 1: not is that like if this movie was like almost

709
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: made like twenty years from now and it was the

710
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,919
Speaker 1: exact same thing, we would almost. I think we could

711
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: like look at it, like, wow, look how normalized their

712
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 1: lesbian relationship is. Like, look, they're just their beloved members

713
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: of the community. Everyone loves them right like and like

714
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: by not identifying, like not being like and they're definitely

715
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: lesbians together kind of normalizes it. But it's not what's

716
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 1: happening in the movie because in the context of when

717
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: this came out in nine, audiences were so conditioned to

718
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: expect hetero relationships between assists Hett Man and cis hette

719
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: woman in mainstream Hollywood movies, like, audiences were not at

720
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: all conditioned to expect queer relationships. We were so starved

721
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: for queer visibility on screen that like media needed to

722
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 1: then and still needs to actually identify characters as queer

723
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: so that we have that clear visibility and we can

724
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: we as audience members, know that about those characters. Again,

725
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: we're hopefully we will move to a place at some

726
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: point down the road where there is more normalization. But

727
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,919
Speaker 1: but that's a really interesting thing that you that that's

728
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: a really interesting point right there, because here you have

729
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: this queer women woman writing the story that she she's like,

730
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: I want this to be universal, and we're talking about

731
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: it on a podcast about the Bechtel test, which never

732
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: gets past in movies, and now it's like, well, can

733
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: it only be past if two women are in a

734
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: romantic relationship with one? Like, is that is that the minus?

735
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 1: You know in the mathematic equation. It's like unless they're fucking,

736
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't count, you know what I mean? Like, well,

737
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: the context of the Bechtel test, which first appeared in

738
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: Alison Bechdel's comic Dikes to Watch Out for Her, characters

739
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: were talking about how they saw so little visibility of

740
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 1: lesbians on screen and movies that they had to imagine

741
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: that two women talking to each other about something other

742
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: than a man. If that happened in the movie, they'd

743
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: be like, well, now we can ship them together as lovers.

744
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: And that's what spawned the Bechtel tests, which is so

745
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 1: why Yeah, It's like, is maybe one of our only

746
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: movies we've ever covered that connects it pretty exactly of

747
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: like this is what the fact was actually supposed to

748
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: be about. This is also like a kind of a

749
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: big cultural moment for movies of this nature and this

750
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: exact framing of like friendship, friendship, friendship, it's just friends

751
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 1: because Delmott Louise comes out just I think a few

752
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: months before Fried Green Tomatoes. So ninety one is huge

753
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: for movies that have a huge cult following today and

754
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: pretty significant queer following that. At the time, We're very

755
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:33,760
Speaker 1: framed of like friends friends, which well, it is interesting

756
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: because I think that the framing device is truly just

757
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,760
Speaker 1: two women becoming friends in a way that I found

758
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: to be like really effective and like lovely and sweet

759
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: of like, oh these are it's an intergenerational friendship. They're

760
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: able to help each other through different phases of life

761
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: and struggling with aging and all this stuff, and like

762
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: that was so beautiful, But it is like frustrating to

763
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: see what is pretty clearly a queer relationship kind of

764
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: not not that like friendship is a reduct but like

765
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,399
Speaker 1: when you're in a relationship with someone, you don't want

766
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: someone to be like that's your friend, that's your business partner,

767
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 1: Like no, this is my I'm raising a child. All

768
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 1: you do is fry tomatoes together. We're doing We're rearing

769
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: a child. We're not just frying tomatoes here, Like uh yeah, well,

770
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to bring up the haze production code.

771
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: It's not the most applicable thing to this movie, but

772
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: I think we see remnants of it in movies long

773
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 1: after the code was lifted. So just a little background

774
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 1: from someone who has not one but two degrees in film,

775
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. I hate to bring it up.

776
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: I feel eighteen again and I was like, oh, the

777
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: haze cut. So the Production Code was a set of

778
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 1: censorship rules more or less that films had to abide

779
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: by in order to get any kind of wide theatrical release.

780
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: This was enforced from four to I believe nineteen sixty

781
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: eight um and the rules where such things as like

782
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: there could be no graphic violence, there could be no swearing,

783
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: there could be no overt sexuality. When it was lifted

784
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty eight, it was replaced by the mp

785
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: A rating system, which is like the rated G rated PG,

786
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 1: rated r PG thirteen came later, etcetera. This is according

787
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: to again our our favorite scholarly website Wikipedia, it says

788
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: in terms of homosexuality, while the code did not explicitly

789
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 1: state that depictions of homosexuality were against the code, the

790
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: code bar the depiction of any kind of sexual perversion

791
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: or deviance, which homosexuality fell under at the time, gay

792
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: characters on screen also came to be represented as villains

793
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: or victims who commit crimes due to their homosexuality. So

794
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: I feel like part of it is just kind of

795
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: the cultural climate around queerness. I mean, during this era,

796
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: as well as many years before and after this, most

797
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 1: filmmakers who have historically been since white men, either had

798
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: no interest in including queer characters or felt like it

799
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: was too big of a risk to include queer characters

800
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: because of the rampant queer phobia in our society. Even

801
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: Fanny Flag is referencing like this movie is for everyone,

802
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 1: and the subtext being well, like a queer relationship can't

803
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: be in a movie for everyone because it is something

804
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: that is other. I don't want to dig into her

805
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: personal life. It does seem because she dated another really

806
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 1: famous lesbian writer who did not could anything. It seemed

807
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: like this was kind of a tendency in her work

808
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: of wanting to write in a universal way, but the

809
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: definition of universal kind of ended up mothering her own experiences, um,

810
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: which isn't fair And yeah, I mean like could have

811
00:49:55,360 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 1: been her also caving to societal pressures to con form

812
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 1: to heteron normative standards. Or maybe she did try to

813
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 1: push back more and just wasn't able to get results. Yeah,

814
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:11,439
Speaker 1: I mean, And in that same really good BuzzFeed essay

815
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,320
Speaker 1: that I'll refer you to again, it's called why Fried

816
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: Green Tomatoes as a lesbian classic? Yes, lesbian that's the title.

817
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: I read that too, but um Kate Arthur is also

818
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: putting this in francesk you also kind of references because

819
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 1: it applies in a number of ways in this movie.

820
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: But like, this was a movie that came out like

821
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: at the height of the AIDS epidemic, and when you know,

822
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: the first Bush administration was completely uh completely ignoring an

823
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: epidemic that was ravaging queer communities. And this was a

824
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 1: queer story, however, coded that essentially outside of the whole

825
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 1: cancer death ended well and ended beautifully and they were

826
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: accepted by their commune nity and on I mean, and

827
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: we haven't even started to talk about the race plot

828
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 1: line of this movie. But you know, black Man is

829
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: brought to court and he is successful and in beloved

830
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: by the community and like just it's societally speaking kind

831
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: of like a fairy tale, especially for when this hotal

832
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: fairy tale, like where and when this takes place, you

833
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 1: have to imagine none of this would go the way

834
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: it goes. But but I wasn't framing it, and like,

835
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:35,280
Speaker 1: oh yeah, is especially for like in a movie market

836
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 1: where there are is not certainly no like lesbian relationships

837
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: being released in on a massive scale, and to like,

838
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: this movie was so successful it made its budget back

839
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 1: thirteen times or something like that, and it kind of

840
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: like frames everything in this like and it all basically

841
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: ended well and everyone had a beautiful relationship and except

842
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: for Ruth went on to Live Lovely Live, and they

843
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: met Kathy Bates. Maybe because Jessica Tandy is Mary Stewart Masterson.

844
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: That is definitely not in the book, and that is confusing.

845
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: That twist ending I thought was excellent. I mean, there's

846
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: just like that layer of the plot of Ninny being Igy,

847
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,399
Speaker 1: Igy being Ninny is so good And I just want

848
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: to sequel where we find out what happened to Igy

849
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: in between all that time after Ruth dies, but before

850
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 1: we meet her in the retirement home. Yeah, yeah, that's

851
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 1: definitely it's made. It's there's a clear distinction in the

852
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: book that ig is not Ninny. The fact that it's

853
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 1: suggested at in the movie is something that I think

854
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,240
Speaker 1: a lot of the fans of the book absolutely hate,

855
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: but not all, but readers aren't better than watchers, everybody.

856
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: Just the Titanic reference, I thought the second I saw

857
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: that like reveal of like, it was like, the woman

858
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: in the picture is me? That is so what happens?

859
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,399
Speaker 1: It's the woman in the picture here was her? Okay, fine,

860
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: she has a picture of Mary Louise Parker on her

861
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,720
Speaker 1: desk whatever. Like it didn't bother me. But I also

862
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 1: if I had read that book and was a big

863
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,280
Speaker 1: fan of that book, I would have been really bothered

864
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 1: by that change, for sure. I don't know. My main take, Like,

865
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 1: there's my takeaway from this movie is I still have

866
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: a crush on Mary Louise Parker after all these years. Uh,

867
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: she is so beautiful and so funny, and I am

868
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 1: in love with her. We got to take a quick

869
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: break and then we'll come right back and we're back. Uh,

870
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: one quick thing and then and then we'll move on that.

871
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 1: The one other movie change that they very explicitly made

872
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: for the adaptation that I'm like, are you serious was

873
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:49,799
Speaker 1: that they changed the introduction of Ruth is She's introduced

874
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 1: as a love interest of doomed brother Buddy who gets

875
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: hit by the train. In the book, I think in

876
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 1: a way that takes a layer of coding, a way

877
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:03,439
Speaker 1: she is not introduced as like, you know, a girl

878
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: who is interested in a guy she's She's introduced as like,

879
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: here's a girl who's staying with us for the summer,

880
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: and that's just it. But in the but the movie

881
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,839
Speaker 1: kind of goes out of its way to say that

882
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: she is interested in men uh the first time we

883
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 1: see her. So yeah, I guess according to the movie

884
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: she is bisexual but also straight, but also question mark

885
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 1: because it's for everyone, it's annoying. I read too that

886
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,919
Speaker 1: in the book we have a clear understanding of why

887
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: she marries Frank Bennett, which is that she and her

888
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: mother needed his financial support or else they would have

889
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 1: probably had to experience homelessness. Because this part of the

890
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 1: story takes place during the Depression, so a lot of

891
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: people had fallen on very hard financial times. So Ruth

892
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 1: in the book marries Frank because she needed a financial

893
00:54:55,800 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: support system. Another titana parallel. Yeah, they could have given

894
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 1: I think Ruth a little bit more backstory. Iggy had

895
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: so much backstory and Ruth was just kind of appeared

896
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: in the movie. Um, and that would have been a

897
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 1: nice I love when Iggy is fishing and Ruth is like,

898
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: come on, spend time with me. It'll be fine, and

899
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,959
Speaker 1: it's like fine, and then they fall in and she's like, fine,

900
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: get on a train with me. We're gonna be socialists

901
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: redistributing the well. And then Mary Louise Parker gets all

902
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: wet and it's just a good movie. Um yeah, okay,

903
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 1: so uh this will sort of bring us into the

904
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,879
Speaker 1: next area of discussion. Is another thing that is done

905
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: in the book that is very Hollywood whitewashed in the

906
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: movie is in the book. And again I was not

907
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:47,760
Speaker 1: able to find a ton of hyper specific details. Caitly,

908
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: let me know if you have more than I do.

909
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: But in the book, the black characters in this community

910
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 1: and in the lives of Ruth and Igy have actual

911
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: stories and there I mean, they just are more characters

912
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: than they are in this movie. Because there are so

913
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:10,280
Speaker 1: many scenes in this movie where black characters are actively

914
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: involved in present where they do not have dialogue, where

915
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: you are not really given a look into what they're thinking,

916
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,359
Speaker 1: how they're thinking. There is at least one character from

917
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 1: the book that doesn't even end up in the movie

918
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 1: at all. And yeah, I was just I mean, especially

919
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: when it's like you cast Cecily Tyson and you're not

920
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,720
Speaker 1: gonna you're not gonna give her anything to do when

921
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: she can do anything. It was. Yeah, so this this

922
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 1: movie is like heavily whitewash. Yeah, the one thing she

923
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,320
Speaker 1: does ends up happening off screen for the most and

924
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 1: the best. Yeah, this is kind of a classic case

925
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 1: of a story that is about white people in which

926
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 1: there are a few black characters who are kind of

927
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 1: there to serve as scenery or to help and serve

928
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: the white characters. We never learn anything about their lives

929
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: in the movie. I don't think we even learn Sipsy's

930
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: name until like an hour into the movie. Yeah, you don't,

931
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: it's not I don't think it's established that Sipsy is

932
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: Big George's mother until the very end, Like, so we

933
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 1: don't even know what their relationship is exactly. She's his

934
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,479
Speaker 1: adopted mother. And then there's also a sister in law

935
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: who doesn't appear in the movie. There there's like a

936
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 1: whole family They have a whole family dynamic in the

937
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: movie and they're sorry. In the book that is just

938
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 1: kind of done away with in the movie entirely. Yes,

939
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: it is annoying that it's not actually more present, but

940
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: like they are pivotal in the actual like what happens,

941
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: the killing, the sauce eating, the cannibalism, it's pretty cool,

942
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: which makes it even more frustrating to me that they

943
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 1: are in spite of the fact that, like it's clear

944
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: that the material being adapted, Big George and Sipsy are

945
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: really active characters, but in movie you don't actually get

946
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: to see them doing much. It's a plot point that

947
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: you don't see what what Sipsy does. It's a really

948
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 1: weird storytelling choice to make an extremely pivotal moment in

949
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: the story of of like Sipsy killing Frank Bennett. So

950
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: have her be, have her character be very important in

951
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: that regard, but prior to that, barely. I mean, she

952
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 1: will be in the background, she'll be she's present, but

953
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 1: she's not she's ever given the focus. They're putting Cecily

954
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:36,520
Speaker 1: ti Uson in the background too many so much. There

955
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 1: is one scene in particular where I feel like these

956
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: problems are especially on display, and again we want to

957
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: hear from our black listeners of of what you made

958
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: of every choice this movie made as well. Um, but

959
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 1: there is the sequence where basically we we find out

960
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: that Frank, Ruth's ex husband is in the KKK and

961
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: that KKK is inciting violence against Big George, also right

962
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: outside the store, but it takes Mary Supermasters in a

963
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: very long time to hear it for some reason. It

964
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: is happening literally right outside the window. But whatever. Uh,

965
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: so we it's just this whole scene that is pivoting

966
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: around KKK violence that somehow ends up becoming about the

967
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 1: relationship of the white women in the story. Like our

968
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 1: our takeaway from a KKK Violet scene is that we

969
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 1: are very concerned with the personal lives of these white women.

970
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: I love those characters, but that just felt so it's

971
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 1: the hollywood ization erasure. Also, I mean, I just think,

972
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: like in the same ways that this film sort of

973
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: appeals to people's homophobia and like sort of dances around

974
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: it and coddles it, it's sort of caddles people's racism too,

975
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: Like we're not going to have these characters say or

976
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: do much more. In fact, all they're doing really is

977
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: being like super ride or dive for I g and

978
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: Ruth for no reason other than they're employed by them.

979
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 1: I mean it seems right, but it's like, but would

980
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 1: but we still will put our lives on the line.

981
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: You know, Big George is beaten and whipped by the KKK.

982
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: But and you kind of assume it's like, well, yes,

983
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: he loves Igy and Ruth. Right. We are told constantly

984
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: this great relationship that Igy has with Big George, but

985
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: we're not shown it. No real estate was dedicated in

986
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 1: the story in the movie Virgin even have a conversation

987
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 1: that's just the two bairly, yeah, or if it is,

988
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: it's just like a very impassing like you know, how's

989
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: the barbecue today? You know, yeah, it's just it's not

990
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: it's very inconsequential. I thought Big George got her out

991
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 1: of trouble once, like he goes to meet with her,

992
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,680
Speaker 1: am I misremembering their Well, here's a troubling scene to

993
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 1: me where after ig has discovered that Ruth's husband is

994
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: abusive and she basically goes to rescue her. She brings

995
01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 1: Big George and her brother Julian, and they show up

996
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 1: and you know, Frank is being an abusive asshole, and

997
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: Julian the brother says, you know, I wouldn't do that

998
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 1: if I were you, you might upset Big George and

999
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 1: he's crazy. And then it cuts to Big George pulling

1000
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: out a knife, and that to me was like, because

1001
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: there's been so much propaganda perpetuated by white people throughout

1002
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: the centuries painting black men as brutes and as violent,

1003
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 1: like perpetrators of violence, and for them for him to

1004
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 1: like use that and be like, he's gonna kill you.

1005
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 1: Look how you know big and scary he is is

1006
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 1: basically what's being implied in this scene. I was like,

1007
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 1: oh no, right again, this, this book and movie take

1008
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:49,280
Speaker 1: place in this kind of wilful fantasy version of the

1009
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: Depression era South, but this is the Jim Crow era.

1010
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 1: Like there are so many and it's it's lightly referenced

1011
01:01:56,520 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 1: by characters were supposed to like, Uh, there's was that guy,

1012
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 1: that guy Grady. Uh Are we supposed to like him?

1013
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 1: I think we are. I think we are supposed to

1014
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: like him, which is wild because he is homophobic and racist,

1015
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 1: uh and a cop? He's a cop. And then there's

1016
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 1: also a reference to like and you and your boys

1017
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 1: when you put on you you know, your sheets and

1018
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 1: you walk around, she's like, you're in the KKK and

1019
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: he's like shrude, like Grady's also in the KKs K. Yes,

1020
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: but but it's like, uh Igy hangs out with them

1021
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 1: a lot, they do a talent show together. So I

1022
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 1: don't think that we're supposed to hate him because no, no,

1023
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 1: we're supposed to like him. Yeah, they were supposed to

1024
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: like him, and so that is so. I mean, I

1025
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 1: guess maybe that is one of the more realistic characters.

1026
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: But it's it's it's frustrated. I mean, and again it's

1027
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:56,360
Speaker 1: the author of this book and both of the writers

1028
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 1: of this movie. Everyone, I mean, there is there are

1029
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 1: not many black people behind the camera for a movie

1030
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 1: that is trying to make a statement on race. Uh

1031
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: Fannie Flag is a white writer, Carol Sobieski is a

1032
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: white writer. And I was not able to find a

1033
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: ton of writing to how race is handled in this movie.

1034
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: But it is deeply Hollywood. It ignores the historical context

1035
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: in the same way that the queer storyline ignores the

1036
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: historical context, which is kind of seems like it's very

1037
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 1: intentionally done to give you a story book ish ending too.

1038
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 1: I mean, Alabama in the ninet thirties, not a place

1039
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: known for its tolerance. Yeah, if it didn't gloss over

1040
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 1: those two things, it would be a completely different story. Yeah,

1041
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 1: it would not have I mean, it doesn't have a

1042
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 1: happy ending, but it would have even less of one.

1043
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 1: And the catharsis of I mean it is movie was

1044
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:54,479
Speaker 1: the catharsis of an evil KKK abusive husband. Like name

1045
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 1: one thing that Frank isn't He's every bad thing pat

1046
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 1: into one character. It is very satisfying to see him

1047
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 1: get turned into sauce, right, so, which so and or

1048
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: not see him but imagine right, So in every way

1049
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 1: it's satisfying to see him, like really defeated. There's no

1050
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 1: doubt that this movie wants him dead. But in order

1051
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: to get there, there is so much context that is

1052
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: just ignored, skimmed over, and it happens kind of at

1053
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 1: the expense of us getting to know the black characters

1054
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 1: in this movie. I feel like it is like a

1055
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 1: problem that starts foundationally with the book. Even though the book,

1056
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,640
Speaker 1: you know, we know more about them, we know more

1057
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 1: about their character journey, but it's you know, everyone involved

1058
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 1: in the telling of this story for the most part,

1059
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: is a white person, so they do seem it's very

1060
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 1: much like uh, backdrop, hey, backdrop characters, and even though

1061
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 1: they're pivotal and what happens in the story and kind

1062
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 1: of a comfortable second class citizen ship, you know, not

1063
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 1: they're not comfortable, but like the story is comfortable with

1064
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 1: the second class citizenship, which which is I would say

1065
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 1: probably historically accurate for that moment. Like, I'm not the

1066
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: idea that some a white woman like ig would be

1067
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: both friends with a cop who also sometimes moonlights in

1068
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:26,920
Speaker 1: the KKK. But he's not that much of a dipshit

1069
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 1: like Frank is, but he has a crush on her,

1070
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 1: right and is homies with like you know, the help

1071
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: quote unquote right, Like that feels real for something like

1072
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:41,640
Speaker 1: I feel like there might have been many many Iges

1073
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 1: who are like, well, I'm not going to treat the

1074
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: person who works in my house as inhuman, but I

1075
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:48,919
Speaker 1: also have to like get along in a small town

1076
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: with this cop who does something I don't agree with,

1077
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, I think. I mean

1078
01:05:55,080 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 1: people contain multitudes, and sometimes those multitudes are extremely country victory.

1079
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: I'm not interested in the multitudes of a racist cop

1080
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 1: like I mean, I wasn't alive in the nineteen thirties spread,

1081
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 1: but I have to imagine that that wouldn't have been

1082
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 1: uncommon where it's weird because like among her things that

1083
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 1: like show her kind of challenging the status quo. In

1084
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 1: addition to you know, she dresses in like kind of

1085
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 1: masculine clothing and stuff like that. She employs black people

1086
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 1: in her cafe and has a like black section in

1087
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 1: her restaurant, and you know, Grady comments on that and

1088
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 1: he's like, well, some people around her you don't like

1089
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 1: it that you serve black people at your restaurant. And

1090
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: she's like, well those people can go funk off. Um. So,

1091
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 1: like she's shown as being an ally I guess by

1092
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties standards, but I mean those standards were just

1093
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 1: you know, not enough it. Yeah, And I just I mean,

1094
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: I know, I keep coming back to this point, but

1095
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 1: the fact that they if you haven't had the pleasure

1096
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 1: of reading about Cecily Tyson's life, first of all, she's alive,

1097
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 1: she's ninety five years old. She is but an award

1098
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 1: away from an egot. She's like a true legend. And

1099
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 1: the fact that she is like she was so well

1100
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: established when this movie came out, and it was a

1101
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 1: big deal that she did the movie, and then they

1102
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:24,240
Speaker 1: gave her nothing to do basically for the whole movie.

1103
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 1: Um as an injustice that I will not recover from.

1104
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: She's also still working, right, She's on How to Get

1105
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 1: Away with Murder? Yeah, yeah, well she was. Yeah, I

1106
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: don't think that shows on anymore. But what I mean

1107
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 1: it was she she is, um, she's thriving. She was

1108
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: also in The Help. She wasn't The Wealth, which we oh,

1109
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 1: let's uh, we can't cover that movie ever, we probably

1110
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: probably probably will, But I mean it goes to show

1111
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 1: that like prolific black actors such as her have to

1112
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 1: take roles such as the one in this movie, such

1113
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 1: as the one in The Help. Is that's often all

1114
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 1: that's afforded to black actors is these underwritten or trophy

1115
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 1: black characters, which is tragic. Even though she had a

1116
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 1: really small part, is sipsy, she crushed it like she did.

1117
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:16,559
Speaker 1: She did a she did a good job, ear right,

1118
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 1: she needed way more screen time, right, I mean, I

1119
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 1: feel like in the movie we just truly don't know

1120
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 1: enough about her. Where Big George, what we do know

1121
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 1: about him? Is that he has worked in a service

1122
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:32,599
Speaker 1: role for Iggy's family for a really long time and

1123
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:35,639
Speaker 1: then he kind of just goes with her through life

1124
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: and is with her because it's like, if I g

1125
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 1: is at home, he's working for that family. If ig

1126
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:44,439
Speaker 1: is running a restaurant, he works at that restaurant, like

1127
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 1: which is also kind of never explained. It's like he

1128
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:53,600
Speaker 1: works where I Gy is. And and going back to

1129
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 1: Cicely Tyson, I she had been nominated for an Academy Award,

1130
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,479
Speaker 1: and just I mean, there is so there. I'm gonna

1131
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 1: reference uh video that I need to pull it up

1132
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:08,960
Speaker 1: and remember the name of the YouTuber. But there's a

1133
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:12,559
Speaker 1: really good YouTube channel that I like that examines best

1134
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 1: Actress oscar races year to year UM that has done

1135
01:09:16,160 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 1: a lot of work in examining especially when women of

1136
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 1: color are nominated for Academy Awards. Uh, their careers go

1137
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 1: very differently than white actress who is nominated and then

1138
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 1: gets gets rules, worles, roles, world roles for abnominated, not

1139
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:35,559
Speaker 1: necessarily winning, just nominated, not even necessarily winning. So Cecily Tyson,

1140
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:38,439
Speaker 1: she hadn't won an OSCAR at this point, but she

1141
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:41,640
Speaker 1: had been nominated and the fact that she can, you know,

1142
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:45,439
Speaker 1: achieve that level of prestige and still be relegated to

1143
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 1: such a small kind of like there's not much for

1144
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 1: her to do in this movie. I don't like it.

1145
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:57,720
Speaker 1: It's in conclusion. Humph uh. Yeah, I think we need

1146
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 1: to reboot once again. She's she's still around, right, Sipsy

1147
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 1: back in not a reboot? Remake is remake? Yeah? Do

1148
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:11,639
Speaker 1: Sipsy justice this time? Yeah? Okay, but we haven't talked

1149
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 1: about Kathy Baits yet. No. Yes, that's the other big thing.

1150
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:19,839
Speaker 1: So with I love Kathy Bates. I do like Evalence

1151
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:24,400
Speaker 1: character a lot. I enjoy her evolution over the course

1152
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 1: of the movie, her character arc because she basically goes

1153
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:35,719
Speaker 1: from a like polite, subservience southern woman to like learning

1154
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:40,800
Speaker 1: to be empowered in learning independence, and this is happening

1155
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:44,400
Speaker 1: while she is hearing this story from Ninny, So it's

1156
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 1: like learning about like becoming friends with Ninny and learning

1157
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 1: about a g and Ruth is like part of what

1158
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:55,719
Speaker 1: empowers her to enact change in her own life. Yeah,

1159
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 1: take charge. There's just some great scenes. You know, the

1160
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:05,720
Speaker 1: scene where she is imagining wearing all cellophane to her husband, Like,

1161
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,800
Speaker 1: how did I not remember that? But I remembered the

1162
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 1: cannibalis of it. That was incredible. I will say standards,

1163
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:17,439
Speaker 1: watching a white woman freak out in a grocery store

1164
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: brings up a lot of Karen images or a new

1165
01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 1: continue I was like, is this the origin story of Karen? Like,

1166
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 1: you know, they too much to Wanda, too much Cathy baits. No,

1167
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 1: but uh, she's going off on other you know, younger

1168
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 1: hotter ladies, Karen's or Becky's. I guess it's kind of

1169
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 1: the next generation of Karen, but she is, Yeah, she's

1170
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:47,800
Speaker 1: going up against but that that like, you know, it's

1171
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 1: the eighties feminism one, and yet I still make my

1172
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:56,200
Speaker 1: husband dinner every day and he grabs it and sits

1173
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:58,679
Speaker 1: down in front of the TV and doesn't pay attention

1174
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:00,839
Speaker 1: to me, and there's no love in our lationship anymore.

1175
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 1: Like I was feeling that, you know, she's trying, she's

1176
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 1: going to these classes, she still thinks it's her and

1177
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 1: then she just stops giving a fuck, and that's when

1178
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:13,560
Speaker 1: everything's wonderful, and she starts to like, yeah, I don't know,

1179
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,360
Speaker 1: she just kind of takes charge, you know, she's just

1180
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 1: like this is a part of who I am, and

1181
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:21,800
Speaker 1: I'm going to embrace it. Um and yeah, I like

1182
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 1: the like again the evolution of what we see where

1183
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 1: at first she's taking these classes to help her with

1184
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:33,439
Speaker 1: her marriage, which of course she as the woman, is

1185
01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:37,200
Speaker 1: expected to do all the emotional labor of fixing anything

1186
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 1: about their marriage, and then he gets to just like

1187
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:42,240
Speaker 1: sit at home and watch baseball all day. Then her

1188
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:45,760
Speaker 1: friend Missy is like, screw this, we need to wait.

1189
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 1: What does she say? She's like, what we really need

1190
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 1: is an assertive training class for Southern women. But for you, Evelyn,

1191
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:55,000
Speaker 1: that's a paradox because you're living in the dark ages

1192
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 1: and everyone's like, oh no. So then they start to

1193
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 1: go to ease. I guess these assertiveness training classes for

1194
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 1: Southern women, and these are kind of cartoony where the

1195
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 1: woman's like, okay, now take off your underwear everyone and

1196
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,679
Speaker 1: look at your vagin. I remember this scene from being

1197
01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 1: a little kid. I was like, what that's a thing,

1198
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 1: But like, I mean, I don't know, was that a thing?

1199
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 1: I didn't I think I mentioned this really. I thought

1200
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 1: that the way that the other women in that class

1201
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 1: were characterized was like kind of cartoony and not super fair.

1202
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:30,599
Speaker 1: It did feel like they were so aggro And then

1203
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:32,800
Speaker 1: I think Kathy Bates's character is supposed to be the

1204
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 1: voice of reason of like, well, I'm all for feminism,

1205
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:38,400
Speaker 1: but this is a bit much like that is kind

1206
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 1: of I choose to read it as because Kathy Bass's

1207
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 1: character is so repressed that it's going to feel very

1208
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:50,040
Speaker 1: cartoony and absurd to like get to know your body

1209
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 1: and to learn to be empowered at first. But then

1210
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:57,760
Speaker 1: she does a one e D eventually where she's like

1211
01:13:57,920 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: she gets a tiny like I'm going to shoot some

1212
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 1: it like yeah, I'm so glad that Frank died. I'm like,

1213
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:06,160
Speaker 1: fuck all the life beaters and their genitals should be

1214
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 1: shot off. Like She's going on this tirade to Ninny,

1215
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 1: and Ninny's like, oh no, what have I done. She's like,

1216
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:16,439
Speaker 1: oh my god, she stresses Ninny out. I like that, Ninny. Uh.

1217
01:14:16,479 --> 01:14:19,640
Speaker 1: And some of it is like a little bit like uh,

1218
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 1: I feel like advice you would get from a grandma,

1219
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:24,919
Speaker 1: which makes sense because that is Ninny as a grandma.

1220
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:27,800
Speaker 1: But I love that there is I mean, their whole

1221
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:30,640
Speaker 1: storyline is just like two women at different phases of

1222
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:34,760
Speaker 1: aging being comfortable with themselves, and like Ninnie offers her

1223
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:39,600
Speaker 1: wisdom about like, oh, have you considered like taking hormones

1224
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 1: if that is going to make your process of going

1225
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:46,559
Speaker 1: through menopause easier? Try that? And Cathy is like, oh,

1226
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 1: going through the change, going through the change. And then

1227
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:54,799
Speaker 1: she said something that sounded so much like my grandma,

1228
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:57,639
Speaker 1: which she was just like, Oh, you're unhappy with your life,

1229
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 1: put on some makeup, get a job healthier. I was like, okay, Grandma,

1230
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 1: but like, but but it's your hormone, and it's very

1231
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:10,520
Speaker 1: well intentioned. My mom would be a different person without hormones.

1232
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 1: Less hormones. I am not looking forward to the change.

1233
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to need all the hormones I need. But

1234
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 1: I like that there's no the way they talk about it.

1235
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 1: There's no even though Kathy Bates's character is like not

1236
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:29,000
Speaker 1: comfortable having these conversations at first, there's not like really

1237
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 1: any stigma around it. They're just talking about it. If

1238
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 1: Cathy Bates doesn't know something, she says so or she's

1239
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:39,960
Speaker 1: like oh what, and then Ninny just explains what she means,

1240
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:42,559
Speaker 1: and then Cathy Bates says, oh, and like Natty is

1241
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,720
Speaker 1: never trying to make her feel bad about herself and

1242
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 1: she's so comfortable and who she is. That's exactly right,

1243
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 1: Like it's it's less an exploration. I mean, it is

1244
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 1: very gendered, but it also is just like, oh, just

1245
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 1: being comfortable with who you are and finding yourself off

1246
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,599
Speaker 1: and realizing you're you don't have to be the perfect

1247
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 1: wife and it's not on you to do all that

1248
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:10,519
Speaker 1: emotional labor. Super liberating. I wish she dumped Ed, but

1249
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:13,640
Speaker 1: I know Ed was not gonna Do you think Ed

1250
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 1: was going to improve? No way, He's not gonna redeem himself.

1251
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 1: I like when he threw the sushi, Oh yeah, Oh

1252
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 1: my god, that's that's my favorite scene. He's like, what

1253
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: the hell is this and she's like, it's a low

1254
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 1: cholesterol meal, Happy Valentine. He's like, are you trying to

1255
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 1: kill me? And then she's like, if I was going

1256
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:33,720
Speaker 1: to kill you, i'd use my hands. And she's like

1257
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:37,720
Speaker 1: bouncing around on this little exercise trampoline. It was perfect.

1258
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,600
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed the guy who played her husband. I

1259
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:43,880
Speaker 1: really enjoyed his performance. I've never seen him before. He's

1260
01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:46,679
Speaker 1: been done a lot of character acting, but I mean

1261
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 1: I thought he was last He gave a great performance.

1262
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 1: He knew exactly what he who he was playing. Best

1263
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:00,200
Speaker 1: line is one of the best lines, how in the

1264
01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:05,799
Speaker 1: hell do you hit a car three times on accident? Accident?

1265
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:10,400
Speaker 1: I really like that. I mean that scene, and that

1266
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 1: scene is like kind of a little cartoony and portrays uh,

1267
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:19,559
Speaker 1: younger womenist just evil shrews that will just whip their

1268
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:22,080
Speaker 1: head around and be like deal with an old lady,

1269
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 1: which I have never seen happen, but uh, you know

1270
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 1: it for for for her character growth, the caredness of

1271
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,800
Speaker 1: it all is very present, but it is also kind

1272
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 1: of satisfying to watch her deliver that weird like that

1273
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:39,760
Speaker 1: smug insurance line of like she's like, I'm older and

1274
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:43,320
Speaker 1: I've got more insurance. Now you're being classics, Cathy Bates,

1275
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 1: But I get what they were going for. I was

1276
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: on board just because of how like Kathy Bates can

1277
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:52,559
Speaker 1: just give the line read of a lifetime and then

1278
01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 1: do something fun and like, I'm never not going to

1279
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:58,400
Speaker 1: love that when she says, um, I'm too young to

1280
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 1: be old and I'm too old to be young, it's

1281
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 1: like I already feel I felt that so hard to

1282
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 1: And it's weird though, because when I first watched Us

1283
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 1: as a like ten year old in a way I mean, God,

1284
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 1: that an't I mean, yes, the movie does a lot

1285
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:19,280
Speaker 1: of things poorly, but representing women in their forties and

1286
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:21,960
Speaker 1: in their eighties, it did a pretty good job. And

1287
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:23,719
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, that's interesting. Oh that's a whole

1288
01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 1: stage of life. A oh marriage, not gonna do that? Oops?

1289
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:30,000
Speaker 1: Did it um? Then? Undid it um? But like there's

1290
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:32,240
Speaker 1: a lot of that that I think sticks with you

1291
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:35,080
Speaker 1: from a younger age. As a young woman watching this,

1292
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:37,920
Speaker 1: I think, uh, it's nice. We don't have a lot

1293
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 1: of that now. Definitely not in the early nineties. And

1294
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:44,760
Speaker 1: I don't know now, like what if what are some

1295
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 1: solid like women in their forties films Like I didn't

1296
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:52,240
Speaker 1: see Steel Magnolia's then, but I saw Beaches We'll look Back.

1297
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:57,760
Speaker 1: Definitely problematic, but forty year old women centered. And I'm like,

1298
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:00,679
Speaker 1: I don't know, movies now are like you're just supposed

1299
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: to be twenty eight forever, right right? I mean book

1300
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 1: Club that's but that's women in their seventies. It's like

1301
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:12,600
Speaker 1: between I I don't think that there's still not a

1302
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:14,960
Speaker 1: lot of like I mean, it's like it maybe an

1303
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:18,320
Speaker 1: indie movies, it's more but but a lot of times

1304
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:20,479
Speaker 1: it's I think that there is I wish I had

1305
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 1: more like receipts to back this point up, but maybe

1306
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:26,160
Speaker 1: maybe you'll both see what I'm saying. I think that

1307
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:28,080
Speaker 1: there is a lot that there is like a lot

1308
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:31,839
Speaker 1: of like we see a lot of actresses over forty,

1309
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:36,240
Speaker 1: but they're very rarely playing over where they're like, wow,

1310
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: this is so cool, she's over forty and working, but

1311
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:44,120
Speaker 1: she's playing a twenty eight year old, Like, so, you know,

1312
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,840
Speaker 1: women being allowed to play roles their age is still

1313
01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 1: I don't. I think that we're still there's a lot

1314
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 1: to be desired. I mean, yeah, they're just hardly any

1315
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:58,519
Speaker 1: roles written for women characters who are forty and above.

1316
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 1: So the fact, yeah, the fact that like this movie's

1317
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 1: focuses on two of them, they should have focused on

1318
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:08,799
Speaker 1: Cecily Tyson too, But whatever, where not whatever, I don't

1319
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:13,599
Speaker 1: hung up. I just okay, um and and again this

1320
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,120
Speaker 1: is and I feel like it proved every time we

1321
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:19,719
Speaker 1: cover a movie featuring a first wives Club is another

1322
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 1: example of like a movie that features women over forty,

1323
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:28,160
Speaker 1: and these movies always do super well because people want

1324
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:31,640
Speaker 1: like older women want to see themselves represent it like

1325
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 1: and it, Like this movie did incredibly well. And I

1326
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:38,439
Speaker 1: think the other trend that is connected to getting movies

1327
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:41,600
Speaker 1: made about older women is that the only way a

1328
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:45,640
Speaker 1: Hollywood studio will greenlight it is if there are huge

1329
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:49,840
Speaker 1: stars attached where movies about older guys you can kind

1330
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 1: of have been in, like you could have played a

1331
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:54,599
Speaker 1: corpse on n c I S twice and they're like,

1332
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:58,920
Speaker 1: you're hired. But for these movies like and again, First

1333
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:02,439
Speaker 1: Wives Club is a good exam bold like three really

1334
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:05,880
Speaker 1: incredibly popular actress has had to sign onto that movie

1335
01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:08,920
Speaker 1: for it to be possible. Cathy Bates and Jessica Tandy

1336
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:11,760
Speaker 1: had both been nominated for Oscars in the last two

1337
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:15,519
Speaker 1: years when this movie was Greenland, so they were at

1338
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:18,559
Speaker 1: this time especially they were like, oh, people will see

1339
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:22,479
Speaker 1: a movie like yeah, and you have to imagine that

1340
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:25,720
Speaker 1: if they were not kind of at the top of

1341
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:28,040
Speaker 1: their game critically at this time, like, it would have

1342
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 1: been a lot harder to get a movie like this made.

1343
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:36,559
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's definitely not enough like good substantial roles

1344
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:41,160
Speaker 1: written for older women where they can talk about that,

1345
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 1: you know, where aging can be a theme and not

1346
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 1: something that is like, Oh, it's a huge success if

1347
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:48,839
Speaker 1: you're able to conceal the fact that you're aging, versus

1348
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:55,000
Speaker 1: discussing it in detail the movie. So their relationship is

1349
01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:59,080
Speaker 1: really nice. Yeah, I wish that. Uh you know, I mean,

1350
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:01,719
Speaker 1: I don't know how this would have been financially possible.

1351
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 1: Maybe that's why she doesn't dump Ed, but she s

1352
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:08,360
Speaker 1: don't know. She becomes a very successful Mary Kay worker

1353
01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 1: like all of my friends moms. So where's the problem.

1354
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:15,519
Speaker 1: She should have kicked Ed out and then been like,

1355
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:19,400
Speaker 1: all right, Ninny, you were roommates, were best friends. Ed

1356
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:21,680
Speaker 1: is going to have to make his own dinner from

1357
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:25,439
Speaker 1: now on. That's the ending we needed. That happens. I

1358
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:28,839
Speaker 1: like to imagine that happens. Yeah, that's my head cannon,

1359
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 1: the fun. The last thing I wanna say is, uh, well,

1360
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 1: I think we would be remiss not to mention um

1361
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:44,720
Speaker 1: Ninny's horrible purple hair dye job that she gets from Judgy.

1362
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 1: That was very judgy. But she's objectively living to the fullest.

1363
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:55,160
Speaker 1: She likes it, and that's what matters. The other thing

1364
01:22:55,240 --> 01:22:57,800
Speaker 1: I did, I did cackle where that happened, because you

1365
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:00,559
Speaker 1: just don't see that coming. And then it's not super

1366
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:03,760
Speaker 1: relevant to the plot, so you're just kind of like like, well,

1367
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:06,960
Speaker 1: I think it's part of it is like showing that

1368
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:11,360
Speaker 1: Evelyn is still abiding by these like this like southern

1369
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:14,880
Speaker 1: politeness mentality of like, oh this is awful, but I

1370
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:17,519
Speaker 1: can't say anything because I'm too polite. But also like

1371
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:20,360
Speaker 1: she's not going to be like your hair looks like ship, Ninny,

1372
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:22,280
Speaker 1: because it's like, I don't think anyone would say that

1373
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:25,560
Speaker 1: I work for Mary Kay. Now fix your face, Ninny,

1374
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:30,280
Speaker 1: deal with it. Uh. This is also high visibility for

1375
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:33,800
Speaker 1: UM makeup products at home, like this stretch of years

1376
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:36,879
Speaker 1: because we have we have Edward her scissor hands Avon Lady,

1377
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 1: and then a year later Mary Kay gets throws their

1378
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:42,880
Speaker 1: hat in the mix and they're like, no, I guess

1379
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:50,639
Speaker 1: Avon who Anyways, they're both MLMs, so whoop sees UM. Well.

1380
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 1: As we hinted at a lot, the movie definitely does

1381
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:59,080
Speaker 1: pass the Bechtel test. It is passing between Evelyn and

1382
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:04,800
Speaker 1: Ninny Tons, it passes between Ruth and a g Tons

1383
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:09,560
Speaker 1: almost yeah, almost every I mean I feel like outside

1384
01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:16,360
Speaker 1: of discussing the murder or ed men do not come

1385
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 1: up that much. And so yeah, right, which is great.

1386
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:25,200
Speaker 1: I love I love that for this movie. Unfortunately, though,

1387
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:28,840
Speaker 1: it if we're applying like the Veto Russo test to it,

1388
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 1: it does not pass because the characters are not identifiably queer.

1389
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:35,240
Speaker 1: That's one of the contingencies of that test. Um. And

1390
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:38,879
Speaker 1: it certainly does not pass the Duverne test because um,

1391
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:41,599
Speaker 1: black characters are just not allowed to be full characters, right,

1392
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:44,479
Speaker 1: they are only there to serve the white characters. So

1393
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:48,320
Speaker 1: with that in mind, let's go to the nipple scale. Yes,

1394
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:52,240
Speaker 1: so zero to five nipples. Examining the movie through an

1395
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:57,920
Speaker 1: intersectional feminist lens I would give this movie. I think

1396
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:04,080
Speaker 1: three would have gotten higher had it not mishandled the

1397
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:08,080
Speaker 1: representation of the black characters and sideline them and failed

1398
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:11,680
Speaker 1: to give them any kind of interiority or deeper characterization.

1399
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:16,559
Speaker 1: I think it would have gotten more had the character

1400
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 1: has been allowed to be identifiably queer. And let us

1401
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:24,840
Speaker 1: see some actual kissing. Let's see them embrace, Let's see

1402
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:27,280
Speaker 1: them be romantic with each other. Keep the food fight,

1403
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:30,200
Speaker 1: but give us a you know, a kissing. Let the

1404
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:35,240
Speaker 1: food fight turn into a steamy set scene. Don't start, Okay,

1405
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 1: but I do, I do, really like the character. The

1406
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:45,240
Speaker 1: female characters that we get to know, love Kathy Bates,

1407
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 1: love the Ninny character. I love Ruth and i Gy

1408
01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:52,879
Speaker 1: and their relationship. Would have liked to see more Sipsy

1409
01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:55,720
Speaker 1: of course. Also, we didn't talk about this character, but

1410
01:25:55,760 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 1: there's a character named Smokey who seems to be person

1411
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:05,800
Speaker 1: experiencing homelessness. He's characterized as like a depression era like

1412
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:10,160
Speaker 1: drifter type, and while he doesn't play an enormous role

1413
01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:13,000
Speaker 1: in the story, I appreciated that some work was put

1414
01:26:13,040 --> 01:26:18,559
Speaker 1: into humanizing a person experiencing homelessness because so little media

1415
01:26:18,640 --> 01:26:22,120
Speaker 1: does that. Um, there's a lot to love about this movie,

1416
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:26,760
Speaker 1: but it is very much of the nine Oscar bait

1417
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:31,240
Speaker 1: frame of mind. Yeah so yeah, and the Oscar Bait.

1418
01:26:31,280 --> 01:26:33,080
Speaker 1: I feel like, really, I mean, a lot of the

1419
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:36,640
Speaker 1: choices this movie makes, I feel like directly ties to

1420
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:41,200
Speaker 1: the Oscar bait elemental. If the Academy is going to

1421
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:44,360
Speaker 1: think that we have gone quote unquote too far, then

1422
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:47,839
Speaker 1: what's the point of making it? Which is like it's

1423
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:50,559
Speaker 1: like that to this day. But it's also like I

1424
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:54,720
Speaker 1: probably just edgy enough for nine one that it's like

1425
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:57,559
Speaker 1: like we're doing something, We're making statements here. Yea, there

1426
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:00,320
Speaker 1: are a few lightweight statements being made for sure, But

1427
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:02,559
Speaker 1: we look back on it almost thirty years later and

1428
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:05,240
Speaker 1: we're like, well, yep, that was thirty years ago. That's

1429
01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:09,799
Speaker 1: just that's where we were. Yeah. Um so yeah, three nipples. Um,

1430
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:13,799
Speaker 1: I'll give two to Sipsy and I'll give my remaining

1431
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:18,320
Speaker 1: nipple to Cathy Bates. Uh yeah, I'll go with three

1432
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:21,240
Speaker 1: as well. For this movie, I think, you know, for

1433
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 1: its time, it's doing a lot of things that a

1434
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:27,160
Speaker 1: lot of movies aren't doing where I mean, I do

1435
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:29,200
Speaker 1: think it's like a huge deal that a queer writer

1436
01:27:29,400 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 1: was given authorship over her own work in film adaptation

1437
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:37,840
Speaker 1: and that there were like resources put behind it. I

1438
01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:42,280
Speaker 1: think Norman Leears production company was involved, which famously very progressive,

1439
01:27:42,479 --> 01:27:46,479
Speaker 1: like wonderful person, so that's great. But I do agree.

1440
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:50,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that it's like pretty clear that uh,

1441
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:53,320
Speaker 1: white people are the creative force behind this movie because

1442
01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:57,320
Speaker 1: of what it gets wrong or what it erases or

1443
01:27:57,400 --> 01:28:01,160
Speaker 1: and and they Cecily Tyson and then I don't use

1444
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:04,559
Speaker 1: her and they don't even show her the biggest moment

1445
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:08,080
Speaker 1: for the character for like suspense that doesn't who cares

1446
01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:10,519
Speaker 1: about the murder mystery. Really like, that's not really why

1447
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:13,960
Speaker 1: we're here. Um, like you're saying, I want, I want

1448
01:28:14,040 --> 01:28:18,360
Speaker 1: an actual queer relationship. I like, it's so frustrating to

1449
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:21,960
Speaker 1: know that, like the actors playing these characters were like

1450
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:26,080
Speaker 1: thinking that and we're this was informing their character, but

1451
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:29,679
Speaker 1: the finished product is not allowed to show that. So

1452
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:34,120
Speaker 1: that's frustrated. Dig But I really enjoyed this movie. It

1453
01:28:34,160 --> 01:28:37,080
Speaker 1: made me cry a lot. You never see women talk

1454
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:40,400
Speaker 1: about aging on screen. You don't usually see a lot

1455
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:43,920
Speaker 1: of intergenerational friendships. I always think that that's really nice,

1456
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 1: and it was done in this like really lovely, not

1457
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:51,400
Speaker 1: condescending way. Um you also get, um, there's not much

1458
01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:55,280
Speaker 1: body diversity. But with Kathy Bates, you know she's she

1459
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:59,679
Speaker 1: talks about kind of her insecurities with her size, and

1460
01:29:00,240 --> 01:29:03,800
Speaker 1: is it handled the way we would want to see exactly?

1461
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:06,880
Speaker 1: Perhaps not, but the fact that the language is very name.

1462
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:11,599
Speaker 1: She does a bit of fat shaming of herself, which

1463
01:29:11,640 --> 01:29:14,920
Speaker 1: is something I've done a lot throughout my entire life.

1464
01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:17,320
Speaker 1: She also has a line at some point where she

1465
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:20,679
Speaker 1: says something like I just wish I had the courage

1466
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:24,880
Speaker 1: to get really fat, which is another thought I've had

1467
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 1: quite a bit. Uh So you know, I just I

1468
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:31,639
Speaker 1: guess I just found her her attitude toward her body

1469
01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:36,720
Speaker 1: to be very relatable. And then part of her evolution

1470
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:39,080
Speaker 1: is like, well, I'm not gonna She's like, I'm going

1471
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:42,120
Speaker 1: to start exercising. I have to change the way I look.

1472
01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:44,519
Speaker 1: And then she refers to her like former self as

1473
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:46,920
Speaker 1: a blob from a horror movie. So like, I don't

1474
01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:49,240
Speaker 1: love I do. I do think that it very least

1475
01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:53,000
Speaker 1: it's framed that she is like doing the exercise stuff

1476
01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:57,080
Speaker 1: for herself and not for her husband, which is I

1477
01:29:57,400 --> 01:29:59,640
Speaker 1: don't like the language she uses around it. But I

1478
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:02,160
Speaker 1: did appreciate that they made it pretty clear that she

1479
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:05,960
Speaker 1: was making these changes for herself, and she was like

1480
01:30:06,240 --> 01:30:10,040
Speaker 1: happier for having made these changes for herself. So in

1481
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:12,840
Speaker 1: that way, I was like, good for Kathy Baith. Yes,

1482
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:16,360
Speaker 1: this movie is is lovely and and I really I

1483
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:19,160
Speaker 1: mean when Ruth died, I was I was so invested

1484
01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:21,360
Speaker 1: in that relationship and when Ruth dies, I just cried

1485
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:25,599
Speaker 1: so much. Um So I'm gonna give three nipples as well.

1486
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:29,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give one nipple to Cicely Tyson. I'm gonna

1487
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:33,120
Speaker 1: give one, and and then I think, I just I

1488
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:38,560
Speaker 1: love Mary Louise Parker so much, I'm gonna give I

1489
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:40,960
Speaker 1: I want to know what Mary Louise Parker has to

1490
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:43,679
Speaker 1: say about the film. She's the one person I don't

1491
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:46,800
Speaker 1: think we have heard from you, wonder Let's call her. Yeah,

1492
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:52,000
Speaker 1: give her a little ringy poop. Come over, Francesca, what

1493
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:54,519
Speaker 1: about your nipple rating? What do you think? I'm gonna

1494
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:58,439
Speaker 1: give it four nipples, but only because I am new

1495
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:02,240
Speaker 1: to this and it is Mary very much stuck in time.

1496
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:06,160
Speaker 1: It is stuck in ninety one interpreting the thirties, and

1497
01:31:06,280 --> 01:31:09,839
Speaker 1: it is Oscar bait. And I don't expect all movies

1498
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:13,400
Speaker 1: to be all things to all people. It is very

1499
01:31:13,439 --> 01:31:17,040
Speaker 1: problematic in a lot of ways. But I think you

1500
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:24,040
Speaker 1: got four very strong and very different female characters. Evelyn, Ninny,

1501
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:26,200
Speaker 1: Igy but maybe they're the three, maybe they're the same,

1502
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:31,440
Speaker 1: and Ruth and they're excellent. Yeah, would a love more Sipsy,

1503
01:31:31,479 --> 01:31:34,559
Speaker 1: But you've got four strong female characters with backstories, with

1504
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:37,559
Speaker 1: interesting lives. With all these things, you get four. They

1505
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:40,640
Speaker 1: have a bunch of conversations that don't involve men. Yeah,

1506
01:31:40,680 --> 01:31:44,120
Speaker 1: it made me cry. Three times four times, However, many

1507
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:47,839
Speaker 1: times needed to be more nipples. If they had actual nipples,

1508
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:52,280
Speaker 1: you'd get the five if we had seen some steamy

1509
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:57,519
Speaker 1: sex scenes. When I really boosted that, Okay, so frantastic

1510
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:00,280
Speaker 1: Because you asked, I was like, has Mary Louis Perker

1511
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:03,519
Speaker 1: said anything about this? Uh? She did think about it

1512
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:07,960
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, so this was on Ellen. Uh,

1513
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:12,719
Speaker 1: twelve years before she was handily canceled. But anyways, Mary

1514
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:15,240
Speaker 1: Louise Parker goes on Ellen Ellen asked her about this movie.

1515
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 1: Mary Louise Parker says, uh, you know, I love my

1516
01:32:18,439 --> 01:32:21,559
Speaker 1: lesbian fans. Um. And then she talks about something that

1517
01:32:21,560 --> 01:32:24,400
Speaker 1: does not so she so we know that. Uh. And

1518
01:32:24,439 --> 01:32:28,440
Speaker 1: then she goes on to say later in the interview

1519
01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:33,120
Speaker 1: that um or after Ellen interviewer, I don't know who

1520
01:32:33,200 --> 01:32:36,000
Speaker 1: was doing interview whatever. Uh. Do you ever wish the

1521
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:38,200
Speaker 1: storyline and Fred green Tom's was a little bit more?

1522
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:41,360
Speaker 1: Mary Louis Parker says, yes, well, in some ways I do.

1523
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:43,400
Speaker 1: I tried to make it a bit more articulated at

1524
01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:45,120
Speaker 1: the time, but they didn't want to go that way,

1525
01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:47,240
Speaker 1: And in many ways I wish it was. Then. In

1526
01:32:47,240 --> 01:32:49,439
Speaker 1: some ways, I think maybe the audience wouldn't have gone there.

1527
01:32:49,479 --> 01:32:51,280
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I have mixed feelings about it

1528
01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:53,280
Speaker 1: because I really tried to push it at the time

1529
01:32:53,360 --> 01:32:56,040
Speaker 1: and they didn't want to go there with me um

1530
01:32:56,160 --> 01:32:58,920
Speaker 1: And then after Ellen asks who didn't want to go there,

1531
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:02,920
Speaker 1: and Mary Louise Parker said no one uh. And then

1532
01:33:02,960 --> 01:33:06,040
Speaker 1: after Allen says not even your co star and Mery

1533
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:08,720
Speaker 1: Lewis Parker says, oh no, Mary Stewart definitely did, and

1534
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:11,480
Speaker 1: Fanny Flagg did, but not the director, not the producer,

1535
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:14,200
Speaker 1: nobody else. But I was really trying to push it

1536
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:16,240
Speaker 1: and they were like no, So none of the men,

1537
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:18,840
Speaker 1: none of the none of the men who get the

1538
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:21,680
Speaker 1: final say on this project about women. So I we

1539
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:26,360
Speaker 1: we know that the three main you know, women involved

1540
01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:29,200
Speaker 1: in this storyline really wanted it, and they said no, no, no,

1541
01:33:29,200 --> 01:33:32,760
Speaker 1: no no. So maybe Fanny Flagg was being diplomatic in

1542
01:33:32,760 --> 01:33:35,760
Speaker 1: those interviews with those Maybe um, we should ask her.

1543
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:39,520
Speaker 1: Let's let's call her to um Well. Director Jon Evnett

1544
01:33:39,640 --> 01:33:43,479
Speaker 1: famously said about this movie and his approach to the

1545
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:47,000
Speaker 1: relationship between those two women. He says, quote, I had

1546
01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:51,360
Speaker 1: no interest in going into the bedroom. It's like, then

1547
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:54,519
Speaker 1: get out of the movie Stinky You're gonna have sex

1548
01:33:54,560 --> 01:34:02,439
Speaker 1: in the kitchen, as you said. Yeah, um, so that's

1549
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:06,000
Speaker 1: that's frant Thank you so much for thank you for

1550
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:08,920
Speaker 1: letting me talk so much about this film. Where can

1551
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:12,479
Speaker 1: people check out your stuff online? Follow your social media

1552
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 1: at Francie Feo on All the Things Twitter, Instagram, and

1553
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:21,200
Speaker 1: the Situation Room podcast. Yes, listen to that. Please, let's

1554
01:34:21,479 --> 01:34:24,439
Speaker 1: find that and thank you guys, thank you, of course,

1555
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:28,000
Speaker 1: thank you for being here. You can follow us on

1556
01:34:28,320 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 1: social media at Bechtel Cast on Twitter and Instagram. You

1557
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:36,000
Speaker 1: can check out our Patreon a k A Matreon. It's

1558
01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:38,719
Speaker 1: five dollars a month. It gets you two bonus episodes

1559
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:41,839
Speaker 1: every single month. What a bargain. And you get access

1560
01:34:41,880 --> 01:34:44,800
Speaker 1: to the entire back catalog of our bonus episodes, which

1561
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:48,000
Speaker 1: is now over seventy of them. You love to hear it.

1562
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:52,400
Speaker 1: You can get our merch over and t public dot

1563
01:34:52,439 --> 01:34:54,880
Speaker 1: com slash the Bechtel Cast. You can get a mask

1564
01:34:55,000 --> 01:34:59,720
Speaker 1: now pretty fun, pretty cool, um and we love you

1565
01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:03,120
Speaker 1: some talk tea Next week to Wander to wa