1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: In the game of life, Maintaining a healthy lifestyle and 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: nurturing meaningful connections with family can be among the most 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: formidable challenges we face. 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: When I was at the game of Miami Heat and 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 2: they had those big rivals series with the Knicks, That's 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 2: when I really understood what my dad was about. 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: Yet, for many professional athletes, fostering both has proven to 8 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: be a triumphant recipe for success. 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 3: I never realized that he was going to play NBA 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: basketball until he got to Michigan. 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 4: Hi. 12 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: I'm John Frankel. For the past two decades, I've traveled 13 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: the globe covering some of the most impactful human interest 14 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: stories and sports. On this show, I'm sitting down with 15 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: some of the biggest families in the game, the legends, 16 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: current superstars, and the up and coming playmakers to understand 17 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: what's really making them tick. What can pro athlete families 18 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: teach a new generation about the importance of caring for 19 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: your health and finding success in the face of adversity. Together, 20 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: we'll hear stories of their remarkable comebacks, setbacks, and the 21 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: crucial role their family and self care played in their 22 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: paths to championship glory. This is part of the game. 23 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: Imagine growing up having an NBA superstar as a father. 24 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 3: I would just plan a game and have a fun 25 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 3: with Chris and Mitch and the Golden State Warriors and 26 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 3: with the Warriors fan. But I never knew that I 27 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 3: would be that type of player in the Hall of 28 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 3: Fame and that young in my career. 29 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: Now, imagine having to follow that on the hard court 30 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: and trying to carve out your own legacy. It's what 31 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: Tim Hardaway Junior faced as he began his own journey 32 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: to the NBA. 33 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 4: I'm not gonna say a lie. I'm like, oh no, there's 34 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 4: no pressure. 35 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 5: Like I was good. 36 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 4: Like, No, it was. It was a ton of pressure 37 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 4: for sure. 38 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,919 Speaker 1: The road to greatness has not always been a smooth ride. 39 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: When faced with adversity, you always knew he had one 40 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: person he could talk to. 41 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: It's cool to have, you know, man up, like, let's 42 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: get this done. But it's sometimes here and there when 43 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 2: a father needs to be a father. And that's when 44 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 2: I needed that love, that support, that type of energy, 45 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: that type of vibe from him. 46 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 4: At that point in time. 47 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: A father and son bonded by a love of basketball 48 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: and each other. First of all, thank you both for 49 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: joining us. Yes, sir, How often do you both think 50 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: about the fact you're obviously not the first, you won't 51 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: be the last. There's lots of talk of Lebron James 52 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: wanting to play with his son. How often do you 53 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: think about the fact that you both made it to 54 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: the NBA. 55 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 3: I think about it, you know, every time I watch 56 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 3: him play. I see the joy in him out there. 57 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 3: I have the joy on my face and my wife 58 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 3: be like, why you smelling? Let me like, because I'm 59 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 3: enjoying watch my son play, and you're bothering me. So 60 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 3: let me watch my son play, you know. Let me 61 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 3: let me watch him, Let me get into the game, 62 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 3: let me get into the moment, you know. And I 63 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 3: think that that's what all ex athletes are looking at 64 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: right now when they when they see their their sons 65 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 3: playing a game that they love to play and they 66 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 3: having fun playing it. When we watch them, we have 67 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 3: a smile on our face, We look like the joker 68 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 3: from ear to ear, and we feel joyful in our 69 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 3: hearts that they are doing something that we used to 70 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 3: do when and love doing. I take it one step further, Lebron, 71 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 3: you know, if he gets to play with his son, 72 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 3: oh man that I think that would be the ultimate 73 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 3: ultimate thing that you could ever do in basketball. If 74 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 3: you could play with your son in the NBA. 75 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: If you play with your son, would you make him better? 76 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 5: Of course, because I go in him all the time. 77 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: Well, he'd at least be the leading scorer all the time. 78 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: Yes, that's how we used to do back and when 79 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: I was in high school, we had like a lot 80 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: of open runs, open gyms. My dad will always pick 81 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: me on the team to be on his team. It 82 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 2: was like Batman Robman. Every time down, He's just feeding 83 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: me the rock every single time, throwing love passes, on time, 84 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: on target passes, passed that pitch in the back of 85 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 2: the head if you're not paying attention. 86 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 4: Being able to. 87 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 2: Feed off of his energy and his guard skills that 88 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 2: he's shown in his Hall of Fame career, that made 89 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: me a better player. 90 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 4: And it all started after my sophomore year in high school. 91 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: At this point, Dad, are you still playing or you're retired? 92 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 5: Retired? 93 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: You're retired? 94 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 5: Done? 95 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: So, Tim Junior, you were what ten or eleven by 96 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: the time your dad retires, right, So, do you remember 97 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: watching him play? 98 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: I really locked in and it really clicked once he 99 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 2: started playing for the Heat. When I was young and 100 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: he was with the Going State Warriors, I didn't even 101 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 2: know what was going on. But when I was at 102 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 2: the game of the Miami Heat and they had those 103 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 2: big rivals series with the Knicks, that's when I really knew, 104 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 2: like and understood what my dad was about and who 105 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: he was as a ballplayer. You could tell when we're 106 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: walking around the city of Miami, or we're going to dinner, 107 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 2: going to the fair expo out here or whatever, it 108 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: could be anything, and he's stopping every two three minutes 109 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 2: to take pictures or sign autographs. That's when I start 110 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,799 Speaker 2: to realize, like around six seven, that he was that dude. 111 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: Did you like that when you walked around town because 112 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: he was your dad and this was your time with 113 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: your dad. 114 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 2: I liked it, but it got to a point where 115 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 2: we were like, Dad, come on, let's go right, let's 116 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 2: get on. But now that I'm in the same situation 117 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 2: as he was, I understand now why he had to 118 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: do that, why he had to stop taking those pictures, 119 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: why he had to put someone a smile on someone 120 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 2: else's face. 121 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 4: You know, for that day. You know. 122 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: So branding, branding, marketing. 123 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 5: Yeah. 124 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: I mean it's not every day that you get to 125 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 2: like walk around and then there's an NBA player Ryan 126 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: in front of you, especially a Hall of Fame point 127 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: guard playing for the Miami Heat at the time where 128 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 2: it was like nineties basketball. 129 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: I want to go back to it for a second, 130 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: when you played together, starting when you were in tenth 131 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: or eleventh grade, and tim you're retired, you had watched 132 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: your dad play. You were you were beginning to understand 133 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: and appreciate what he did. But did you fully appreciate 134 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: his skills before you had a chance to play on 135 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: the same team with him and get those passes and 136 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: go up for the oops. 137 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I appreciate it a lot. 138 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 2: When you're sitting down in the stands and watching him 139 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: play and watching how the fans react to his game. 140 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,799 Speaker 2: That alone gives you so much appreciation for what he's done, 141 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 2: you know, for the game of basketball. When I had 142 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: that finally opportunity to go out there and play with 143 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: him in the open runs or in the summer leagues 144 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: that we had when I came back from college, the 145 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: joy and the appreciation and the talking trash, you know, 146 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 2: ganging up on other people and talking trash to other 147 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: people and having each other's backs out there like that 148 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 2: was my way of like getting my energy, having my joy, 149 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 2: and like getting out there and competing at a high level. 150 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: And that gave me confidence knowing that if I'm playing 151 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 2: with a future Hall of Famer and I'm playing against 152 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: guys that are in the league, they're in an off 153 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: season and their training to get themselves back, and I'm 154 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: going at them and I'm not scared. 155 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 4: I knew I was able to fulfill my dream. 156 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: Dad, when did you notice and realize that he was 157 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: going to have the skills? 158 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 4: Great question. 159 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: You may not have known whether he was going to 160 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: have the work ethic, the desire. When did you recognize 161 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: that he had the skills to be really good? Well, 162 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: he always had the work ethic. 163 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 3: When we changed his shot, he was upset and I said, 164 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 3: you know, you had to change your shot because he 165 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 3: was shooting it. 166 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: That was in middle school, right, That was the push 167 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: shot before you're strong enough from the waist and you 168 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: go up. Okay. 169 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 3: I said, hey, you gotta change your shot now because 170 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 3: you're gonna start growing. 171 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: Why did you think he was going to grow? When 172 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: you were what. 173 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 3: Five eleven three quarters and I'm looking at him. I'm like, 174 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 3: I'm looking at his mom like I don't see it. 175 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,839 Speaker 3: But I'm going to go with some experts that knew 176 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 3: about growth spurts and and knew about athletes and how 177 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 3: when they starting to grow and how they're going to grow. 178 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 3: So we changed his shot and he went out there, 179 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 3: he was practicing his shot, and I said, look, you 180 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 3: had to do, you know, one hundred push ups a day, 181 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 3: one hundred sit. 182 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 5: Ups a day. And that was what worth etic came from. 183 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: Did you do the hundred push ups and sit ups 184 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: with him? 185 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 5: No, not that. 186 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: My cousins, his cousin, my cousins when they came down, 187 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: they were doing it with me too. 188 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 189 00:08:58,559 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 5: Right, No, I didn't do it much. 190 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 3: That was I was done with that. So I passed 191 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 3: it on to him that my grammar school coach passed 192 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 3: on to me. But you know, his work ethic always 193 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 3: been there. He always wanted to get better. He always 194 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 3: wanted to work on his game. He always wanted to 195 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 3: shoot the shot, you know, and just work on and 196 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 3: get better. But you know, when we started playing and 197 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 3: he started growing, I never realized, you know, that he 198 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 3: was going to play NBA basketball you didn't. I did 199 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 3: not know until he got to Michigan. 200 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: Even in high school, which you were not highly recruited 201 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: out of high school. But knowing the game the way 202 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: you did, you did not think that he was an 203 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 1: NBA prospect at that time. 204 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 3: Not at that time. And I wasn't even thinking about that. 205 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 3: I was just thinking about him going to school and 206 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 3: getting to the right coach and developing his game and 207 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 3: then maybe maybe. 208 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 5: We have a shot at it. 209 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 3: Did you want him to have a shot at it? 210 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 3: Of course you did. I want him to because I 211 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 3: knew he wanted to have a shot at it. 212 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: The reason I asked that is that, listen, it's not 213 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: unusual for kids to want to follow their parents into 214 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: any career. You know, of course being a professional athlete. 215 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: But oftentimes parents said, don't follow me into medicine, don't 216 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: follow me into being a lawyer, don't follow But you 217 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: wanted him to be an NBA. 218 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 3: Player, Well, no, no, I wanted him to follow his dream, 219 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 3: and I wanted him to be able to fulfill his 220 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 3: dream as best as possible in his own way. And 221 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 3: he did do it in his own way when he 222 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 3: was playing with us, And I'm giving him the ball, 223 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 3: he's listening, he's understanding the game. And he went out 224 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: there and got better and better and better. So when 225 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 3: he got to Michigan, it was easy. It wasn't hard 226 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 3: for him to become NBA basketball player. I just put 227 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 3: the seed in him, and I just helped him to 228 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 3: understand what he needs to work on and how he 229 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 3: needs to work at it, and understand that it takes 230 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 3: hard work to be in the NBA. 231 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 5: And he put in that hallwork every day. 232 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: With that hardaway name on the back of your jersey. 233 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: Not only was there pressure, did you feel that that 234 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: was a target for you? Did other one thousand people 235 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: like I'm gonna shut this kid down because of who 236 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: his dad is. 237 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 4: Oh yeah. 238 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: It was a lot of trash talking, of a lot 239 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 2: of fights. It was a lot of arguing. You know, 240 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 2: you have to have thick skin, especially going into environments 241 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 2: around Miami, playing in these different schools and the kids 242 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: knowing who you are just because of the name on 243 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 2: your back. 244 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 4: I'm not gonna say her lie. I'm like, oh no, 245 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 4: there's no pressure. 246 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 2: I was good, like no, it was a ton of 247 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 2: pressure until he sat me down and talked to me 248 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 2: and gave me the conference and told me you were 249 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 2: doing everything you possibly could out there to go out 250 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: there and compete. NAD lifted so much weight off my 251 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 2: shoulders that I was good to go. 252 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 1: When we return. How Tim Hardaway's senior overcame the devastating 253 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: knee injury that threatened his career, and how load management 254 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: and modern medical d advances if changed the NBA. 255 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 3: Back in our day when we play, if you was hurt, 256 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 3: you had to be on ir for five games, there 257 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 3: was no coming back and to after those five games up. 258 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: Part of the game. We'll be right back and now 259 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: back to heart of the game. Tim Hardaway Senior wasted 260 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: no time making his presence known in the NBA. He 261 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: made the All Star team three consecutive years with the Warriors, 262 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: and only the legendary Oscar Robertson reached five thousand points 263 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: and twenty five hundred assists faster than Hardaway. But then 264 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: disaster struck. In nineteen ninety three, Hardaway toward the ACL 265 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: in his left knee, costing him an entire season in 266 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: his prime. Keep in mind that back in the early nineties, 267 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: this type of injury was still potentially career threatening, but 268 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: never under us to make the competitiveness of an elite athlete. Tim, 269 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: Were you concerned when you were coming back about was 270 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: your game going to be at the same level? Were 271 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: you going to have the same quickness which you would 272 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,239 Speaker 1: relyed on. Were those areas that you thought about consciously 273 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: in the moment, or did you say, hey, i'm young, 274 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: I'm a stud, it's only an issue. No. 275 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 3: I never said I'm young, I'm a stud. I'm gonna 276 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 3: come back. What got me back is the competitiveness of Chicago. 277 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 3: I went back and when the doctor and the trainer 278 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 3: and everybody said you one hundred percent, you go through 279 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 3: basketball activities. I went back to Golden State, went through 280 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 3: a bunch of drills, played three on three and all 281 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 3: this type of stuff. And I went home and started 282 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 3: playing five on five, and in a pro am, a 283 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 3: guy picked me up that never picked me up before 284 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 3: full court. He looked me right in my eye and said, 285 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 3: you do not have it anymore. I could guard you. 286 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 3: He called you out right in front of everybody. And 287 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 3: from that point on, in that game, when I played 288 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 3: the game, he flipped the sw flip he flipped. 289 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: He flipp flipped the switch. He flipped the switch. 290 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 3: When he told me that competitiveness came into my body 291 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 3: and I just forgot about my knee in my whole career, 292 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 3: from high school to college and when I was in NBA. 293 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 3: He never picked me up full court after the game. 294 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 3: He said, Wow, I didn't think you had it anymore. 295 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 3: I thought you was done. You're gonna come back better 296 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 3: than ever. But I always say thank you to him. 297 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: Maybe he did it on purpose, maybe he knew what 298 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: you needed, but hey, it worked, It worked for sure. 299 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: Harnaway Junior endured his own injuries, such as a broken 300 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: foot in twenty twenty two. It happened during a routine 301 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: drive to the basket. Despite fracturing the fifth meta tarsal foot, 302 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: he managed to shoot man make his free throws before 303 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: being helped back to the locker room. Tim Junior, you 304 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: have had your share of injuries. You had the really 305 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: major foot injury, right, Yeah. What was that like for 306 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: you to fight through that again, both emotionally and physically, 307 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: to get yourself back to where you wanted to be. 308 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 2: I think, for the most part, me having surgery a 309 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: couple of years before that with my fractured tibia. After 310 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: leaving New York for the second time, I had got 311 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 2: surgery after that. I think this surgery wasn't as bad. 312 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 2: I knew I broke it, I knew I fractured my foot, 313 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 2: so I wanted to get the surgery done as quickly 314 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 2: as possible again to rehab as quickly as possible. The 315 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 2: mental I was fine, you know, for the most part, 316 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 2: because like I said, I had a previous injury where 317 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: I had to rehab and stuff like that, so I 318 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 2: kind of understood the process. But it hurt more when 319 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 2: I knew my team was out there playing without me 320 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 2: and they made this run, and I really wanted to 321 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: be a part of it, and me knowing and being 322 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 2: a competitor like I knew I could have helped him 323 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 2: out so much in the Webster Conference finals when we went, 324 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 2: so I really wanted to help and really wanted to 325 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 2: be there for them. So that I think that was 326 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 2: just the only difference were you able to lean on 327 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 2: your dad? 328 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: Was was he a confident and able to tell you, look, son, 329 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: this is part of the game, and you're going to 330 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: work through it, both physically and emotionally, and you're going 331 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: to have to get back. Yeah. 332 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 4: For the most part. 333 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 2: Definitely was the first person to call, you have him 334 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: right in your pocket. 335 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 4: What other basketball player, what. 336 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: Other professional athletes say that definitely leaned on him for 337 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 2: the whole recovery process. Just talk to him about the 338 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: game of basketball. Talk to him about what I see, 339 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 2: what he sees, what I could probably say to the 340 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 2: coaching staff, or you know, any type of way for 341 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 2: me to be helpful for my team while sitting out. 342 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: You know, we talk about the physical challenges of playing 343 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: in this game and putting in your years, but there 344 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: are lots of mental parts of the game that maybe 345 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: the fan isn't aware of. I'm talking about the idea 346 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: of being traded and having to move, which both of 347 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: you have gone through. Can you each talk about that 348 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: and what that brings and what it entails. When you're 349 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,719 Speaker 1: happy and you're settled in Golden State and then you 350 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: get moved to Miami, or you're in New York and 351 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: you get moved to Atlanta in Tim Junior's case, or 352 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: for a few days you even get sent down to 353 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: the G League and then you got to come back. 354 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: What does that do to you and your overall mental health, 355 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: which is now so much a part of the game 356 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: and is recognized by people. 357 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 2: Go ahead, tam, I'm not gonna lie you. That messed 358 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 2: me up tremendously. It's like you think you know, but 359 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 2: you really don't know. It was reality check, I would say, 360 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 2: for sure, especially getting up and moving from New York 361 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 2: to Atlanta and then not playing and then having to 362 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 2: get sit down to the G League and mentally you're like, damn, 363 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: you know. 364 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 4: I thought I was doing something right. 365 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 2: It's like this organization has a different say and a 366 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 2: different way of doing. 367 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 4: It was hard having. 368 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 2: To go to the G League and then come back 369 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 2: knowing that you're not going to play, not a single minute. 370 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 2: Even if you're up by twenty thirty and you're dressed out, 371 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 2: You're not playing just because they have something in line 372 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 2: for you to be the player they want you to become. 373 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 2: It just goes back to like I said, you think 374 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 2: you know, but you don't. 375 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,479 Speaker 1: I imagine that there's a lot of self doubt that 376 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 1: begins to creep in. 377 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it was a lot of that. 378 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 2: It was a lot of sad, sad moments where I'm 379 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 2: crying on the phone to him, to my mom, to 380 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 2: my agent, second guessing myself what I need to do. 381 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 2: But then it's just started to click once I went 382 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 2: down to the G League and I started playing in 383 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,959 Speaker 2: Austin with the San Antonio Spurs G League team, and 384 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 2: it was good because coach Budd was under Coach Popovich 385 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 2: and similar style of play offensively and defensively, So it 386 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 2: was the right situation for me to go out there 387 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: and learn how Coach Bud wanted me to play and 388 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 2: be the head guy down there and get my rhythm 389 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 2: and get my flow and just go out there and 390 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 2: play and have fun. 391 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: Dad, when Tim acknowledges that he was crying and calling 392 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: you up, talking to you and mom, are you Dad 393 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: in that moment? 394 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 4: No, that's Dad. I can answer that for you. That's Dad. 395 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: That's Dad. Yeah, that's Dad. 396 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 5: Like I'm Dad. 397 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 4: That's Dad for real. 398 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: That's not get tough. This is part of the game. 399 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: It's a business. 400 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 4: No, No, that's dad. 401 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 2: It's cool to have, you know, man up, like, let's 402 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 2: get this done. But it's sometimes here and there when. 403 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 4: A father needs to be a father. 404 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 2: And that's when I needed that that love of that support, 405 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 2: that type of energy, that type of vibe from him. 406 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 2: At that point in time, already had the other stuff 407 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 2: from my best friends, my boys, and my agent already 408 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 2: had those guys, tell me the man up, You're gonna 409 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: be all right, do your thing. But father, he was 410 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,239 Speaker 2: a father that point in time, and I respected that 411 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 2: and I needed that. 412 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 1: So we're at twenty years since you've been out of 413 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: the game. Yes, wow to age both of us, Yes wow. 414 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: In general, how's your health? My health is good, health 415 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: is real good. 416 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. 417 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 3: You know, I got some bad knees, you know, but 418 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 3: not mean that sometimes that come with the territory. I 419 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 3: used to play on concrete all the time growing up 420 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 3: in growing up Chicago. That's all we had was playing outside, 421 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 3: especially during the summertime. It was basketball outside. There was 422 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 3: no indoor basketball where you go as young people, so 423 00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 3: we played outside and we made the most of it. 424 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 3: Most of the guys that played Nick Anderson, Kendall Gill 425 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 3: in my era, the Byron Irve and that came out 426 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 3: of Chicago. 427 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 5: Yeah I need a hurt. 428 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: Fourteen years you had the one major aco injury after 429 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: the ninety two to ninety three season. How's that need? 430 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: Do you have arthritis? Yeah? 431 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 3: Well I got authritis everywhere my knees, my ankles, you know, 432 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 3: my wrist. But you know, like I'm telling you off air. 433 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 3: You know, I take this doctor. When I first came 434 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 3: to the NBA in San Francisco, I call him Doc Hollywood. 435 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 3: He introduced me to go close to me and Condroit. 436 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 3: It helped me out for my fourteen year career, and 437 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 3: without that I would not have played fourteen years. 438 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: Hardaway Senior is Tim Junior's biggest fan and rebels and 439 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: watching his son play ball. But these are two elite 440 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: athletes from two very different errors of the NBA. The 441 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: old school tape it up and play mentality from Hardaway 442 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: Senior's day no longer. Modern day players are often benched 443 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: to rest their bodies in the hopes of preventing long 444 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: term injuries and for other reasons. The Dallas Mavericks were 445 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: fined seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars by the league 446 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: for sitting most of their key players, including Hardaway Junior, 447 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: for a game late in the season. The league accused 448 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: the Mavericks of conduct detrimental to the league by benching 449 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: their best players in order to improve their chances of 450 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: keeping their first round pick in the twenty twenty three draft. 451 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: Regardless of the reasons, load management, as it's called is 452 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 1: very much a part of today's NBA. It is not 453 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,719 Speaker 1: a concept that Tim Hardaway Senior knew anything about in 454 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: his day. 455 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 3: I'll tell you this, Back in our day when we play, 456 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 3: if you was hurt use out for five games, you 457 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 3: had to be on ir for five games. There was 458 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,479 Speaker 3: no coming back and to after those five games up. 459 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 3: So if you was in a stretch with five games 460 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 3: was eight days, you was sitting down for eight days. 461 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 3: You couldn't travel with the team. You couldn't go nowhere, 462 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 3: even though you was ready after the third game, you 463 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 3: had to sit down and wait till after the fifth game, 464 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 3: and then if they were still on the road, you 465 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 3: go and travel with them. It was different in our 466 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 3: day then. A lot of stuff with a lot of 467 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 3: rules was different. 468 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: Tim Junior, how do you feel You've been part of 469 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: the Dallas Mavericks and the team paid a price for this. 470 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: At one point you were one of the players that 471 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: sat out, not because your choice management said you're gonna 472 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: sit down. What's your feeling on all this and load 473 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: management today? 474 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 2: Me personally, I mean I've always wanted to play. I 475 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,239 Speaker 2: mean I played through a lot of injuries. And he 476 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 2: could tell you that firsthand. There's a lot of times 477 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 2: where I'll be hurt and everybody knows I'm hurt. He 478 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 2: knows I'm hurt, and I'll tell him like, no, I 479 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 2: don't think I'm gonna go tonight. 480 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 4: But then I'm suited up, Brady to go. 481 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 2: The competitive spirit and that energy when you're walking in 482 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 2: that tunnel and going into that locker room, your mindset 483 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: just flips the switch. The drilling is kicking. I can 484 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 2: get my coffee. I'm ready to go. I've always been 485 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 2: the guy that wanted to play. 486 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: Harnaway Senior is now two decades into retirement after forays 487 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: into coaching and TV work. He's enjoying his favorite pastime, 488 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 1: watching his son play ball. Dad, you said that you 489 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 1: enjoy watching him pay. You've got a smile. You have 490 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: to tell your wife leave me alone. I'm in my 491 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: moment here. Is it hard to watch Tim Junior? Do 492 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: you get nervous for him if he goes to the 493 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: foul line in a critical situation? Are you nervous? Do 494 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: you find yourself yelling at the tv? 495 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 4: My mom does? 496 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, his mom yells at a TV. I don't yell 497 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 3: at a TV. I'm always sweating. I'm in a moment, 498 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 3: my hands are sweating, and I feel like it's telepathy 499 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 3: that I'm trying to help him. And you know with 500 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 3: the basketball. I mean, one day my wife came down. 501 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 3: She said, why you got a town? I said, I'm 502 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 3: playing too, are you? But I'm into the game that 503 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 3: when I'm watching him, I'm into the game. 504 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 5: You know. 505 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 3: My friends called me, Why you calling me? Yeah, I'm 506 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 3: watching him play. Oh my bad. Yeah, he's on right 507 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 3: you watching him? 508 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 5: So why I'm watching him? Leave me alone? 509 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: Are you yelling shoot the ball? 510 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 3: No question, I'm saying, how come he didn't shoot that? 511 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 5: Why not you shooting? But then you know, my. 512 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 3: Wife yolan that. She would be like, well, was that 513 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,680 Speaker 3: a good pass? I said, yeah, that was great pass. 514 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 3: He passed to a guy up under and he made 515 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 3: a layup. That was a great pass. And you know, 516 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 3: so sometimes she'd be like she wanted him to shoot. 517 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 3: I want him to shoot exactly. I said, no, he's 518 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 3: a team ballplayer. He passed the ball when you open, 519 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 3: that's what you're supposed to do. And she's like, okay, okay, 520 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 3: but I want him to shoot more. I said, okay, 521 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 3: And you just got to leave it alone. 522 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: A major reason why Hardaway Senior is in the Hall 523 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: of Fame is because of that legendary crossover dribble. What's 524 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: interesting about his signature move is that it began it's 525 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 1: someone else's move. Correct me if I'm wrong, And you 526 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: can tell people this story, But it wasn't an original 527 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: idea of yours. Was it you were talking before we 528 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,719 Speaker 1: started doing this, that you used to sit in your 529 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: dorm room at UTEP and you used to watch the 530 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: Big East Games on ESPN? 531 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 3: Now what did you watch by Sarah Q Saint John's Georgetown? 532 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: And was there one guy in particular? 533 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 5: It was Pearl Washington. 534 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 3: He came down one time against Georgetown in a carry 535 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 3: a dome and he shook this guy so hard that 536 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 3: he was off the screen. And I was like wow, 537 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 3: And you could feel the energy in the carry a dome. 538 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 3: You could feel Pearl Washington just do his thing. But 539 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 3: he was so low with the crossover he crossed him. 540 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 3: All was so hard and the guy went to his right. 541 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 3: He was off the screen and pe went down man 542 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 3: laid it up. I was like, ooh, I said, I 543 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 3: gotta go practice day. But I couldn't do it like 544 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 3: pearls so I invitted my own stuff. 545 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: And Tim when you were coming up right and you're 546 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: learning the game, you didn't know at the time you 547 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: were going to be six or five. Right, did you 548 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: practice the crossover? Did you see what your dad was 549 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: doing and say, I'm gonna I'm gonna drill this into myself. 550 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 2: I'm gonna be completely honest with you. Now, I really 551 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 2: love shooting the ball. 552 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: You said dribbling is for. 553 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 4: For the point guard. I really loved shooting right. That's 554 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 4: what I love. I love to do. But I'm not 555 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 4: gonna lie. 556 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: I've done it a couple of times in the game. 557 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 2: I could revert back to MSG my junior year. We're 558 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 2: playing Kansas State. I was coming up the right side. 559 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 2: I did the move the crossover, and I pull up 560 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 2: jumper and I pointed to him in the stands after 561 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 2: I did it. 562 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 5: I remember, so it was I remember, yeah, yeah, it 563 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 5: was cool. 564 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 4: So and you heard the oohs and ahs when I. 565 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 5: Did it right that right. 566 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 4: There was a special moment for me, especially doing it 567 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 4: in the garden. 568 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: The Hardaways are close, not just like many fathers and 569 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,959 Speaker 1: sons are, but their bond is unique because they belong 570 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: to an ultra exclusive fraternity the NBA. You have two daughters, Yes, 571 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 1: obviously they are not in the NBA. They're not in 572 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:33,959 Speaker 1: the WNBA, Tim Junior. Everybody has a different relationship with 573 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: their parent, every sibling. Do you feel sorry for your 574 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: sisters in the sense that they don't have this bond 575 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: that you have with your dad. They might have a 576 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: different relationship and it might be just as good. But 577 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: did this give you something special that you think they 578 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: don't have. 579 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 2: I mean, I would say to a certain extent, yeah, 580 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 2: I mean there's something that they don't have, and it's 581 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 2: just what we both are professional as fleets, Like you 582 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 2: can't teach that, you can't tell nobody. 583 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 4: I mean, like you have to work to get to 584 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 4: that point. 585 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: It's an exclusive club. 586 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, yes, exclusive club man. 587 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 2: So it's like that's the bond that we share, and 588 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 2: that's the barmb we're gonna share for the rest of 589 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 2: our lives. Like he said, he does have that spider 590 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 2: sense that when something's up, something is up. And I've 591 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 2: gone to him multiple multiple times and even told him like, Yo, 592 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,719 Speaker 2: I need you right now. Can you come to Dallas 593 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 2: or can you come to Atlanta? Can you come to 594 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 2: New York stay with me for a week and chill 595 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 2: and vibe, go grab dinner, smoke a couple of cigars 596 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 2: and we chill out. 597 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 5: But he relaxed. 598 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 3: If he needs me, I'm first thing's smoking right there. 599 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: Now. He has to stop every two feet because people 600 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: want your picture and your signature. 601 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 3: Right yeah, and they don't recognize me, So I just 602 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 3: keep walking, keeking. 603 00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 5: E've be looking at me. 604 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: Where you going? And I'm like, hey, they don't want me. 605 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 5: All right. I talked to you, Tam, Dad, love you. 606 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 5: I know you too. 607 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,719 Speaker 1: Next time. On Heart of the Game, gold medal winning legend, 608 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: Alison Felix, the most decorated track and field athlete in 609 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: US history, speaks about her fight for equality for female 610 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: athletes and her transition from the track to becoming a 611 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: business owner and mom. 612 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 6: I could find bright spots even when everything didn't go 613 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 6: perfectly right. And that's the point of my career where 614 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 6: I found more purpose and like trying to create some 615 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 6: impact and it just became a little bit bigger than 616 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 6: just a sport for me. 617 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: Heart of the Game is a production of Ruby's studio 618 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: from iHeartMedia. Our show is hosted by me John Frankel. 619 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: Our Executive producer is Matt Romano. Our EP of Post 620 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,479 Speaker 1: Production is Matt Stillo. Our supervising producer is Nikkiah Swinton. 621 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: This show was edited Uy Sierra Spreen. Our writer and 622 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: researcher is Mike Avilla. Thanks for listening. We'll see you 623 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: next time.