Speaker 1: Look out. It's only films to be buried with a
Speaker 1: rewind classic. Hello everyone, it's me Bret Ostein. I'm just
Speaker 1: taking a little break so that I can focus on
Speaker 1: some work. I hope you understand. In the meantime, I'm
Speaker 1: putting out some of my all time favorite episodes, starting
Speaker 1: with this one with the fucking brilliant Barry Jenkins. Barry
Speaker 1: Jenkins is one of the all time great filmmakers. I
Speaker 1: was so excited that I got to talk to him.
Speaker 1: We recorded this around the release of The Underground Railroad.
Speaker 1: If you've never seen that, you really have to. It's incredible.
Speaker 1: He's an amazing man. This is an episode where I
Speaker 1: spend about now I try not to say I love you.
Speaker 1: I think it's a classic. I hope you enjoy listening
Speaker 1: to it again or for the first time. In other news,
Speaker 1: you can get everything you want at the Patroon at
Speaker 1: the Patriot dot Com forward to Last Bread Goldstein, where
Speaker 1: you get extra questions with Barry. You get the whole episode, uncut,
Speaker 1: ad free and as a video, and all the back
Speaker 1: episodes as well. Shrinking is still available on Apple TV Plus.
Speaker 1: The first seven episodes are out now. It's the show
Speaker 1: I co created with Bill Lawrence and Jason Siegel. We're
Speaker 1: very proud of it. I hope you're watching it, hope
Speaker 1: you're loving it. And then the other big news is
Speaker 1: that Ted Lasso Season three will premiere March fifteenth on
Speaker 1: Apple TV Plus. Finally it's here and we really really
Speaker 1: hope you love it. One last thing, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be doing a stand up show in Seattle April eighth
Speaker 1: at The More. If anyone lives in Seattle wants to
Speaker 1: come and see some stand up come along that night.
Speaker 1: Is it the More. I don't know where that is.
Speaker 1: You live there, you tell me, don't tell me. I'll
Speaker 1: find it. I've got Google maps. Hopefully see you there.
Speaker 1: So that is it for now. I hope you're all well,
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening very much, hope you enjoy this
Speaker 1: rewind classic with Barry Jenkins. Hello, and welcome to Films
Speaker 1: to be Buried With. It is I Brett Goldstein, and
Speaker 1: I am joined today by a writer, a producer, a director,
Speaker 1: an Academy Award winner, a hero, a legend. I cannot
Speaker 1: believe he's actually doing this podcast. Can anyone believe it? Please?
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. The incredible, the amazing, the brilliant.
Speaker 1: Is this the Barry Jenkins. Thank you, Thank you man.
Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to be here. Barry. I can't believe
Speaker 1: you're here. You may never have listened to my podcast,
Speaker 1: but if you had, you might not have wanted to
Speaker 1: do it because I've spent a lot of time talking
Speaker 1: about your films in a loving way. What I do
Speaker 1: need to know before we start is what your tolerance
Speaker 1: is for being told how brilliant you are, because I'll
Speaker 1: limit it depending on how much you can take. Very low,
Speaker 1: very low, very low. It makes you uncomfortable, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it does. It does. It does because because one I
Speaker 1: don't I don't believe it. You know, I don't believe it.
Speaker 1: I don't buy it. Also, in a very a Roy
Speaker 1: Kent kind of universe, it's like the last thing you
Speaker 1: ever want to hear. Kay, Yeah, I'm not that into it. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to hold back a little. I'll try, but
Speaker 1: what I will say is I've recently completed The Underground Railroad. Congratulations,
Speaker 1: Thank you man, Thank you. What's a phenomenal piece of work.
Speaker 1: And I did want to ask you, if I may
Speaker 1: just a little bit about it. And because it's the
Speaker 1: last one, Like, it's fucking incredible and it's an incredible achievement.
Speaker 1: Aside from everything, just the size and scale of it
Speaker 1: is beautiful, it's harrowing, it's just an incredible piece of work.
Speaker 1: But genuinely, I'm curious for you, Like, it's a harrow watch,
Speaker 1: it's a harrowing it's a different hud, it's a hard watch.
Speaker 1: And to have lived in that space and to make it,
Speaker 1: which I'm assuming took a year minimum, if not more,
Speaker 1: the whole thing for you exactly, how is your brain
Speaker 1: during the making of that, as in do you switch
Speaker 1: it off at the end of the day. Were you
Speaker 1: stuck in that duck space for a very sustained period
Speaker 1: of time? Like how how do you exist making something
Speaker 1: like that for such a long time? Yeah? It was.
Speaker 1: It was interesting. I kind of I couldn't turn it off.
Speaker 1: There was just no way. I think when you're doing
Speaker 1: something at that scale, there's there's always a problem that
Speaker 1: needs to be solved or always a question that needs
Speaker 1: to be answered. So my brain just had to constantly,
Speaker 1: constantly be going, had to constantly be in that space.
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things I'm really proud
Speaker 1: of stuff. With what's happening in my career right now
Speaker 1: is I'm still working with my friends, you know, with
Speaker 1: people I've known since I was in an undergrass as
Speaker 1: I was in college. Then I think that helps, man,
Speaker 1: I think it helps a lot because it kind of
Speaker 1: takes you know, and you guys are working at a
Speaker 1: really high level right now, so I'm sure there's a
Speaker 1: lot of noise in the system. As they say, you know,
Speaker 1: when you guys were back to do Season two and
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff. It can be distracting the
Speaker 1: thing you're doing. The actually the thing you're creating is
Speaker 1: a distraction to a certain degree. It kind of it
Speaker 1: separates you from yourself from your real life, and then
Speaker 1: you got all those other shit surrounding it. But I
Speaker 1: think because of that, it's really helpful to always have
Speaker 1: my friends with me, because I'm never alone. Even when
Speaker 1: I'm like stuck inside this thing and this thing was
Speaker 1: like and it was massive, there was just nowhere to
Speaker 1: hide from it, and there was yeah, and then there
Speaker 1: was no way to really turn it off. If you
Speaker 1: did turn it off, something was going to falter or fail.
Speaker 1: And so no, man, I was just in that headspace
Speaker 1: the entire time. But I wasn't there alone, and I
Speaker 1: think that made the difference. I mean, it cost is incredible,
Speaker 1: it's so well passed. But again just the scenes that
Speaker 1: are being in that did often traumatic. And I wondered
Speaker 1: again in terms of the length of time you were
Speaker 1: doing this for whether there was a lot of laughter
Speaker 1: on set, whether you know, between takes it with light,
Speaker 1: or whether you actually everyone was in a kind of
Speaker 1: mood that sustained, Like how did that work? Was it different? No,
Speaker 1: there were certain days. I mean in the first episode,
Speaker 1: the scene where the character Big Anthony is burned alive
Speaker 1: essentially that day, Yeah, you could hear a pin drop
Speaker 1: on set. Yeah, you could hear a pin drop. It
Speaker 1: was just you know, there's a guy in the show
Speaker 1: named Ben Walker who plays the plantation on in the
Speaker 1: first episode. His wife is English, so he actually lives
Speaker 1: in London, even though he's from the state of Georgia,
Speaker 1: he's from where that episode takes place. And so I
Speaker 1: remember one day we were beginning that day's work. It
Speaker 1: was like maybe noon in Georgia, which meant it was
Speaker 1: maybe like eight or nine pm in London, and it
Speaker 1: was about to call action. He took his phone out
Speaker 1: in the One of the pas was like, oh, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: mister Walker, we're about to start working. You can't took
Speaker 1: your phone up. He goes, oh, I'm sorry, man, it's
Speaker 1: like nine o'clock. I just wanted to call my kids
Speaker 1: and tuck them in. And the p's like, no, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: im Jenis is ready to go. I walked and I said,
Speaker 1: let that man get on his phone and call his
Speaker 1: kids because he wants to remind himself that he's him
Speaker 1: and the character. As the character, it's like, yes, Ben,
Speaker 1: all your damn kids, tuck them in, didn't come back
Speaker 1: and do these horrible things. And so, yeah, there were
Speaker 1: days where it was really intense, but there was so
Speaker 1: much laughter on this set. There really was. Tusso, who
Speaker 1: plays our lead is an absolute clown, and then Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then Joel and the kid who plays home or
Speaker 1: Chase Dyllan, they were just like moral and hardy. I
Speaker 1: mean it was just like a laugh a minute. So
Speaker 1: we didn't have a good time. I'm delighted to hear that.
Speaker 1: My last question because you're probably both talking about this.
Speaker 1: I know you've been talking about it a lot, but
Speaker 1: you're obviously in a position you have loads of projects
Speaker 1: you could be doing. I know that having six projects
Speaker 1: in development and then one guy's in the underground, particularly
Speaker 1: because it was such a massive undertake, Kid, is there
Speaker 1: a particular reason that you were like, I'm doing this
Speaker 1: now or was it just logistically lined up it was
Speaker 1: happening then? No, no, no, this was everything had to
Speaker 1: sort of pivot around this. This was like, you know,
Speaker 1: the big ash truck on the highway taking up all
Speaker 1: the space, and the other traffic has to move at
Speaker 1: its speed. This was always the main thing. Part of
Speaker 1: that was, you know, coming off of the wind for
Speaker 1: the best picture with Moonlight, I knew I had probably
Speaker 1: the most cultural or industry capital I'm ever going to have,
Speaker 1: and I knew I needed a certain amount of resources
Speaker 1: to pull this show off. And so it felt like
Speaker 1: this is how I'm going to pay for it, all
Speaker 1: the games I've made, you know, from this very unexpected
Speaker 1: success in Moonlight. You know, I think images set around
Speaker 1: people like my ancestors, images set around the condition of
Speaker 1: American slavery. There's a certain business prospect of those images,
Speaker 1: which means there's certain financial capital that's given, certain budgets
Speaker 1: that are allowed for works on the subject matter, and
Speaker 1: this felt like I'm never gonna have this opportunity again.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm the hottest I'm ever gonna be, you know.
Speaker 1: So how do I cash on this chip? You like,
Speaker 1: go off and make some blockbuster franchise so I can
Speaker 1: put more money in my pockets? Or is this an
Speaker 1: opportunity for me to really take a big swing and
Speaker 1: try to capture the essence of these people who I
Speaker 1: owe so many things too. Also, I'm forty two. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm forty one and I'm turning to forty two soon.
Speaker 1: This ship was hard, Brot, this was hard, But believe
Speaker 1: it is. I can see that. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe someday, you know, I know you had you had
Speaker 1: Russell Russell Russell T. Davies on the show, and he sounds,
Speaker 1: you know, pretty. I mean maybe when I when I
Speaker 1: think he's like fifty five right now, hopefully I'll be
Speaker 1: a sprite, you know, and I'll have as much energy
Speaker 1: as he does at fifty five. But I thought, you
Speaker 1: know what, I don't know that I'm gonna be able
Speaker 1: to do something like this at that age. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna want to, you know, I've got the energy. I've
Speaker 1: got the stam on it right now, do it? And
Speaker 1: so that was why. And did you direct it as
Speaker 1: as one giant movie split into ten or was it
Speaker 1: blocked out? No? No, no, no, we did it. We
Speaker 1: did it in an episodes and we kind of had
Speaker 1: too There each like a film, aren't they? Yeah? Exactly,
Speaker 1: there reached like a film. And even more logistically, you know,
Speaker 1: she gets to a new state. There's a whole different cast,
Speaker 1: a whole different set of locations. You really are resetting.
Speaker 1: And it was good for me to compartmentalists. I think
Speaker 1: good for the cast, you know, especially like someone like Tuso.
Speaker 1: It's really compartmentalized. It's like, Okay, I'm in this deep
Speaker 1: dark place and now in two weeks I'll be in
Speaker 1: a different place. It might be dark, but it won't
Speaker 1: be as dark. It's funny you talk about rust of
Speaker 1: t Davis. She's your doctor who she moves to a
Speaker 1: different every episode, newcast, new world exactly, and it and
Speaker 1: it just it just refreshes you. Then it just refreshes you. Well.
Speaker 1: It's truly incredible and I have nothing but respect for you.
Speaker 1: But I have forgotten to tell you something. Yes, and
Speaker 1: I should I should have said it. I should have
Speaker 1: said it early actually, and I made it. I did
Speaker 1: make a note to say when we met, but why
Speaker 1: are you thinking about it? Let me ask you? So?
Speaker 1: How did how did? How did it? Tell us? All
Speaker 1: happened for you? Man? I mean, you know, there's there's
Speaker 1: a thing I'd say to people when people asked, like
Speaker 1: how to how to get in the business everything again,
Speaker 1: my answer is always just fucking make your own stuff.
Speaker 1: No one's ever the magical phone is never going to ring.
Speaker 1: And keep making stuff, keep making stuff, keep making stuff,
Speaker 1: keep making stuff, and hopefully one day someone will see
Speaker 1: your stuff and if you've been doing it long enough,
Speaker 1: they'll look back. You'll go, I've got loads of stuff
Speaker 1: to look at because no one was looking for years.
Speaker 1: And then having said all that, I did get a
Speaker 1: magical phone call. But I had, I had. I'd done
Speaker 1: a pilot for Bill Lawrence before, and then we'd stayed
Speaker 1: in touch, and then two years later he called me
Speaker 1: literally out of the blue and said, I'm working on
Speaker 1: this show. I think you should. You should be in
Speaker 1: the writer's room. And I then had a FaceTime with
Speaker 1: Jason to see if we'd connect and sort of fell
Speaker 1: in love. And then two days later I was on
Speaker 1: a plane to La Oh should it's madness. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: didn't realize you've been in the room on the show. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then the other part of it is I wasn't meant
Speaker 1: to be in it, and then we're writing it, and
Speaker 1: I realized I felt, you know, without being a dickhead,
Speaker 1: I felt like a cooling. I meant to I need
Speaker 1: to play Roy Kemp, like I really really get it.
Speaker 1: But I also knew no one was thinking to me
Speaker 1: for Roy Kemp because I've got a Muppets past, and
Speaker 1: I'm usually headed up to that point. I've been playing
Speaker 1: sort of bumbly, sort of sweet English guys. So I
Speaker 1: made a tape on the last night that writes Rom
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to make anyone uncomfortable, and I
Speaker 1: filmed five scenes and when I left, I emailed it
Speaker 1: and I said, look, I've had a lovely time. I
Speaker 1: love the show. I've been thinking for ages I could
Speaker 1: play Roy. But I also know no one's thinking to
Speaker 1: me for this. If this tape is ship, pretend you
Speaker 1: never got it, and I will never ask you if
Speaker 1: you've got this email. But if you like it, here's
Speaker 1: the tape and then thankfully they couldn't be bothered to
Speaker 1: look any further. Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, so that
Speaker 1: was a real real magic that is. Yeah. I don't
Speaker 1: know how often that's happening, but I know the woman
Speaker 1: who's the lead and Brother for Falls, that the same experience.
Speaker 1: She was in the writer's room Brother for Falls, And
Speaker 1: I think everyone in this case, everyone realized eventually, I
Speaker 1: think you're this person that we're all sitting uh and
Speaker 1: now she's the star and uh and in the room.
Speaker 1: Very cool. Yeah, no, it's it's really Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: fucking miracle whole thing. The thing. Speaking of shocking things,
Speaker 1: what I forgot to tell you is you've died. You're dead. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: do that. Well, the ship feels good. It's a lot
Speaker 1: more anime than I thought it would be. Okay, we're tired.
Speaker 1: You said, maybe this is good. How did you die?
Speaker 1: You get to choose how you died? How did you die?
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I'm terrified. I was not expecting
Speaker 1: this question. They did not send me this question. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm terrified of a flying, terrified of flying, but
Speaker 1: I do it. I mean doing what we do, you know,
Speaker 1: we just do it all the time. And maybe this
Speaker 1: this is a terrible thing to say out loud, but
Speaker 1: I've always imagined that I'm going to die and some
Speaker 1: kind of like some kind of aviation catastrophe, you know,
Speaker 1: but I've imagined it, and I even when I was
Speaker 1: in college, I wrote a short story about it. But
Speaker 1: being thrown out of the window of this plane and
Speaker 1: just almost like the things they carry, you know, and
Speaker 1: just having this really beautiful experience of just floating through
Speaker 1: the air to my ultimate demise, but accepting it, accepting
Speaker 1: it and then just really drinking in the experience for
Speaker 1: what it is. Very morbid, but but now I love this.
Speaker 1: I mean, I appreciate you. You've you've not had the book.
Speaker 1: As we talk about death a lot, it's very mobile.
Speaker 1: It's fine that you're in the right place. My question
Speaker 1: is he threw you off the plane. So in this
Speaker 1: short story, I had a very awesome apartment, very high
Speaker 1: up in the sky and one of the world's tall
Speaker 1: those buildings, and a small commuter plane just just sort
Speaker 1: of swept me out. That was that was that one.
Speaker 1: I know, very strange, but you know, but it makes sense.
Speaker 1: You and I are a very close in age, you know.
Speaker 1: I was sitting in a classroom where not eleven happened,
Speaker 1: and so the idea of planes and buildings is something
Speaker 1: that was just very jarringly seared into everyone's consciousness. I
Speaker 1: think that's where I woke up one morning. I just
Speaker 1: had this image in my head of me being thrown
Speaker 1: out of a building, you know by this the small
Speaker 1: plane that no business being at that elevation. That that's
Speaker 1: that is a hud or death. But as you fell,
Speaker 1: you you were acceptance and it was beautiful, gorgeous. I mean,
Speaker 1: oh my god. I don't remember my dreams very often,
Speaker 1: but that one I woke up and I was like,
Speaker 1: I need to write this down. So you were sucked
Speaker 1: out of a building and then fell beautifully. Just just
Speaker 1: float it, man, I mean, just float it. I love it.
Speaker 1: You know, do you worry about death a love? Is
Speaker 1: it something you think about love? I do want to, don't?
Speaker 1: I do want to? Don't. I think the inevitability of
Speaker 1: death is something that I've gotten quite clear on, especially
Speaker 1: in the last like five years. But yeah, especially working
Speaker 1: on the show too, you know, doing all this research
Speaker 1: or about my ANSWER's just all these black people who
Speaker 1: were brought against their will to the Americas, and death
Speaker 1: was just you know, it was like breathing, it was
Speaker 1: like tea, it was like coffee, it was like breakfast.
Speaker 1: There was an inevitability and it was very, very, very rampant,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, I had to go to that place.
Speaker 1: And so I've been thinking a lot about it over
Speaker 1: the last few years, and then just with everything that's
Speaker 1: happening in the world. I mean, the headlines over the
Speaker 1: last three days have just been terrifying. Yeah, death is
Speaker 1: a reality. Having sort of thought about it a lot
Speaker 1: in the last few years, has you have you changed
Speaker 1: your feelings about it? Like do you feel less worried
Speaker 1: or more worried? Not less worried, because I love life, man,
Speaker 1: I love life, I do. I love the world. I
Speaker 1: think that what's happening here is so impossible. I think
Speaker 1: when you really take a moment to step back and
Speaker 1: look at anything, really, whether it's a human face, whether
Speaker 1: it's the flower. I know I'm sounding very hippy dippy
Speaker 1: right now. There's just there's just so much impossible, ravishing
Speaker 1: beauty in the every day and the completely mundane, and
Speaker 1: so in that way, it's not that I don't want
Speaker 1: to live, and yet I also think I'm not afraid
Speaker 1: of death because it's such an inevitability as a writer.
Speaker 1: I love who's giving a talk, this woman named Alice,
Speaker 1: Alice Sola Kim, and I don't know if she was
Speaker 1: quoting another poet or something, but she said, you know, right,
Speaker 1: like you're dead, right, like your parents are dead, right,
Speaker 1: Like everyone's dead. And that's how I go about my
Speaker 1: work now, you know, because I'm talking about the spear
Speaker 1: of flying. Every time I get on a plane, this
Speaker 1: is really dark. I assume it'll be the last time
Speaker 1: I get on. Every time I get on a flight,
Speaker 1: I think this is going to be the one every
Speaker 1: single time. Breath. That's true, every single time. It's It's
Speaker 1: why if I fly, anybody listens to this. If I
Speaker 1: fly somewhere to meet you, I want you to know
Speaker 1: that in my head, I am risking life and him
Speaker 1: to get to you. That's what I think. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: you're flying to meet someone, it means something exactly. But
Speaker 1: because of that, I also think that when I'm making
Speaker 1: choices about it, I'm going to direct this, so I'm
Speaker 1: going to write that, or even I'm going to read
Speaker 1: this I'm going to watch that. I gotta meet it, man,
Speaker 1: I've gotta meet it. You know. It's why you know
Speaker 1: I want to do the podcast because I mean, I know,
Speaker 1: but now you're in the writer's room, it is kind
Speaker 1: of definitely your thing. Man. I just love what y'all
Speaker 1: doing on that show. I just, I mean, I just
Speaker 1: absolutely my partner as a filmmaker. She'll tell you. We'll
Speaker 1: be watching an episode. I do this, I'll pause because
Speaker 1: like how much time is left. I'll be that. I'll
Speaker 1: pause again. It's like I got six more minutes, all right, cool?
Speaker 1: Then I'll pause again. I've got five more minutes. Man,
Speaker 1: I just love it because that is worth my time. Man.
Speaker 1: That blazes my mind. That blaws my mind. Listen, I'm
Speaker 1: not allowed to tell you I bringing you about for
Speaker 1: an hour, but I've said it alone. You are not.
Speaker 1: You are not. I really appreciate that's very exciting to you.
Speaker 1: What do you think happens when you die? Do you
Speaker 1: do you think there's enough to life or anything like that?
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, in my spare time, I
Speaker 1: try to read like really random shit. I love why
Speaker 1: every now, and my followers on Twitter are like why
Speaker 1: does Barry Jenkins know so much about these random ass things? Obsessed?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm terrified of aviation, so I try to
Speaker 1: learn everything I could about it. I'm fascinated by death
Speaker 1: and life in general, and so I've been just doing
Speaker 1: random research on those things as well. What do I
Speaker 1: think happens. I'm not sure, bro, I'm not sure, but
Speaker 1: I think something happens, right, Yeah, Yeah, I think I
Speaker 1: think something has to the universe is so mysterious. I mean,
Speaker 1: it is crazy mysterious, Brett. I mean, it's like insane.
Speaker 1: Some of this shit that we're only now discovering puzzles
Speaker 1: the hell out, I mean, and it makes me wonder
Speaker 1: if we even have the capacity to discover everything, or
Speaker 1: even the essential things. I think we're scratching the surface
Speaker 1: right now. I say all that to say death can't
Speaker 1: be as simple as we assume. It just can't be.
Speaker 1: It's just the other way. I mean, the fact that
Speaker 1: you can sometimes walk down a street and you know,
Speaker 1: I think for women this is even more prevalent, and
Speaker 1: you can feel some creepy guy watching you without seeing him,
Speaker 1: without knowing his presence there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: there is something that we don't understand that is out
Speaker 1: there in all these spaces between us, and I think
Speaker 1: that extends to all these other things out in the universe.
Speaker 1: And so you know, you go to a cemetery that's
Speaker 1: a version of death. Yes, but that can't just be it.
Speaker 1: Everything you've said about how you feel about life and
Speaker 1: how you feel about death and the after life, I
Speaker 1: think it's all in your work. I think it's all
Speaker 1: the thing that I was really fascinated with Underground Railroad,
Speaker 1: particularly because of how true it's heavy. It's fucking heavy,
Speaker 1: it's you know, there's so much trauma in it. But
Speaker 1: it is also clear from that show that you love
Speaker 1: life and the moments like in episode one where they
Speaker 1: run across the field together, it's such a joyous it's
Speaker 1: fucking beautiful, and there's so much particularly how you shoot
Speaker 1: the landscape and the sun, and there's there's an element
Speaker 1: it feels spiritual. There's spirits everywhere, Like I just want
Speaker 1: you to know that everything you feel comes across Thank you.
Speaker 1: It's not intentional. I'm trying to get to the point
Speaker 1: where where I am just working from from this feeling
Speaker 1: from a spirit right said the work first, although I
Speaker 1: probably did say it before, but I am trying to
Speaker 1: work just from the spiritual place that if that element
Speaker 1: is present and the thing that we're doing that day,
Speaker 1: actually all of that is completely unintentional. It's meant to
Speaker 1: be just a really simple run across the field. And
Speaker 1: we have filmed a dialogue portion of that scene somewhere
Speaker 1: else and just something I don't know what it was,
Speaker 1: and the sun was setting, and I just called out
Speaker 1: and said, hey, I think we should do the lines
Speaker 1: right here, and I think we should slow this down.
Speaker 1: Let's just take let's take a moment with it, and
Speaker 1: we shot it in slow motion, again not intentional, and
Speaker 1: after the first take it was clear something else is
Speaker 1: happening here, like something else is happening here. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is only last for like two seconds. It's twenty twenty
Speaker 1: one as a guy out blowing leaves, but it'll be
Speaker 1: done in a second. I don't get here. I got
Speaker 1: to hear it all right, as I'm talking about the
Speaker 1: spiritual run across the field. That's that's fascinating that wasn't planned,
Speaker 1: because it feels this is the thing I love, and
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think you can compare them, but
Speaker 1: it's so much different. But in the making of Ted Lasser,
Speaker 1: there there's a thing that Jason always says of someone
Speaker 1: else is quote, but it's the thing of do the
Speaker 1: homework at leave ten percent so God can come in,
Speaker 1: you know that exactly. And there's very much that thing
Speaker 1: of like there are things that turn up. We did
Speaker 1: so much work, much planning, so much writing, but there
Speaker 1: are things in this show that happened on the day
Speaker 1: that happened with the right person walking in or you know,
Speaker 1: you follow that. And it's so fascinating because when it
Speaker 1: when I think it is channeled by the spirit or
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, it seems there's no
Speaker 1: other way you could have done that. It seems like
Speaker 1: the whole episode was building to this moment that came
Speaker 1: randomly there. It's so fascinating that. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: that in a way the episode is building to that moment,
Speaker 1: but it's kind of where you were just saying, and
Speaker 1: or Jason talks about I feel the same way. We're
Speaker 1: building to this moment, but but we're not expecting to
Speaker 1: build exactly what's what's in our heads, you know, we're
Speaker 1: hoping to be building and building, and then you get there.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's almost like, I mean, this is labor.
Speaker 1: I was like on the pitch where you can you
Speaker 1: can plan a strategize only so much. But at a
Speaker 1: certain point the flow of the game, hopefully it takes over,
Speaker 1: you know, And now all the scheming and everything, now
Speaker 1: it's just will, it's just will, and it's just it's spirit,
Speaker 1: it's essence, it's passion, you know, very very very roy
Speaker 1: Roy kent things. I love it, absolutely love it. Oh
Speaker 1: the one on the thing I would have said what
Speaker 1: you said is am you and Lili Wangi is your partner.
Speaker 1: I love the farewell. I love it so much. And
Speaker 1: I just imagine the two of you go to bed
Speaker 1: at night and say good night, genius, good night genius.
Speaker 1: No not quite, not quite like did you did you
Speaker 1: remember to turn the lights on? Lights off? Did you
Speaker 1: order this thing? Did you order that thing? Very very
Speaker 1: but but I do feel very fortunate to, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: to live with someone I share my life with someone
Speaker 1: who also you know, understands the necessity for these things
Speaker 1: that we're talking about right now, that it's not just
Speaker 1: paint on numbers. You know that if it is painting,
Speaker 1: at a certain point, it's just throwing throwing ink, you know,
Speaker 1: throwing pigment, you know, at a canvas and stepping back
Speaker 1: and allowing yourself to be to be shown with what
Speaker 1: the thing is that you're trying to create. It's very cool, man,
Speaker 1: it's very very beautiful. And so here's a you were right,
Speaker 1: there is more after death. There's a heaven. And in
Speaker 1: this heaven, it's fucking great. They got all your favorite things.
Speaker 1: What's your favorite thing? Coffee, man, Hick, Coffee, bro Hey,
Speaker 1: this place is made of coffee. Coffee. It's water wall coffee.
Speaker 1: There seeds are made of coffee. You almost regret loving
Speaker 1: coffee that much because there is so much coffee type
Speaker 1: of instruments there. But they're all very excited to see you,
Speaker 1: and they want to talk about your life. But they
Speaker 1: want to talk about your life through film. And the
Speaker 1: first question they ask you is what is the first
Speaker 1: film you remember seeing? Barry Jenkins the first film I
Speaker 1: remember seeing? And I was trying to think of this,
Speaker 1: and there's a group of films around this window. I
Speaker 1: don't know why, but it starts when I'm like seven
Speaker 1: or eight years old. I don't know why, but all
Speaker 1: my movie memories kind of start there with like the
Speaker 1: color Purple coming to America. But the one that I
Speaker 1: remember remember is this weird ass film called The Hidden
Speaker 1: starring Kyle McLaughlin. My uncle took us to a driver
Speaker 1: in cinema and we saw this very weird ass movie
Speaker 1: about the alien comes out of this chest at the end.
Speaker 1: Do you know this film, The Hidden is the posted
Speaker 1: like a black and white sort of thing with it
Speaker 1: like a spirit coming out of it. Yeah, exactly. That's
Speaker 1: my earliest memory of a movie. I don't know why,
Speaker 1: because I don't particularly care for that film. It doesn't
Speaker 1: really mean anything to me. But I do remember sitting
Speaker 1: in my uncle's like buick le saber, and you know,
Speaker 1: we had the radio turned on to hear the movie
Speaker 1: and it was at the drive in and the thing
Speaker 1: came out of his chest and I was freaked out. Man,
Speaker 1: that's my earliest movie memory. Where was that. This was
Speaker 1: in Miami, Florida, back when we had drive in theaters,
Speaker 1: which was a really fun thing to do. Man. You
Speaker 1: just pull up in the car, get some popcorn and soda,
Speaker 1: you know, you have a few beers in the back,
Speaker 1: and you just watch this movie. Do you remember thinking
Speaker 1: I want to do this I want to make films. No,
Speaker 1: absolutely not, absolutely not. It was so far beyond me.
Speaker 1: I do remember I kind of like this, movies are cool.
Speaker 1: Up to then, I only been watching like like Saturday
Speaker 1: Morning cartoons. It's like this movie thing. Man, he's a
Speaker 1: pretty cool. I kind of like this. Yeah, Okay, what
Speaker 1: is the film that scared you the most? Do you
Speaker 1: like being scared? I do so my mom, who you know,
Speaker 1: have a very complicated relationship with my mom, and it's interesting.
Speaker 1: She's not really a big film person, but for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: I think because there's been so many extreme things in
Speaker 1: her life, she loves horror films. Loves horror films. It's
Speaker 1: like her main genre of film. She's always telling me
Speaker 1: about this TV network called Chiller. There's a there's a
Speaker 1: TV network called Chiller. It's all horror films. It's all
Speaker 1: she watches. And so I've always been exposed to the
Speaker 1: horror genre. The film that scared me the most, though,
Speaker 1: was that Texas Chainsaw Masca, which was a film I saw.
Speaker 1: I remember I got into film school and somebody, some
Speaker 1: kids said, hey, you should watch Texas Chainsaw Maskers. Like
Speaker 1: why would I watch that? He goes it's actually a
Speaker 1: really good film. And I watched it and I was like, Yo,
Speaker 1: this is a really good film. Also, this is fucking
Speaker 1: insane because it felt so real, you know watching it.
Speaker 1: I've watched it again, maybe like a year ago, and
Speaker 1: it's almost like a snuff film. I mean, it's very
Speaker 1: very hardcore, very hardcore, and it freaked me out. It's
Speaker 1: really unpleasant. It's really unpleasant, and it does feel I
Speaker 1: actually weirdly think it probably has the same the dark
Speaker 1: version of what we've talked about of this kind of
Speaker 1: letting the spirit in. There's a feeling of that maybe
Speaker 1: in the Texas change of Maskat and that it feels
Speaker 1: like it's let evil spirits. Seems like it feels it
Speaker 1: feels unsafe. That film, well, it feels unsafe and thinking
Speaker 1: about the world right now as a version doesn't seem
Speaker 1: so far fanched, which is crazy. I remember watching it
Speaker 1: and going this ship could happen, like this really could
Speaker 1: happen anyway. Yeah, that would be my pick there, that's
Speaker 1: a good one. What about crying? What's the film that
Speaker 1: made you cry the most? And are you a cryer?
Speaker 1: You make films that make me cry? Are you crying?
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Brett Man apologies with the tears.
Speaker 1: I can be a crier. I'm actually crying more now.
Speaker 1: In my in my old age, Lulu and I were
Speaker 1: watching we were watching this Netflix documentary on this K
Speaker 1: pop band. I think they're called Black Pink. It's name
Speaker 1: of this band. There's a Netflix documentary about them, and
Speaker 1: this is so embarrassing. But there's a moment where their
Speaker 1: whole careers are huge megapop stars, but they haven't conquered
Speaker 1: the American market. So they go and they play Coachella,
Speaker 1: and the documentary culminates with the playing Coachella, and you
Speaker 1: see them talk about the feeling of playing the Coachella,
Speaker 1: the validation of it, and it just broke me. Man.
Speaker 1: I was on the couch watching this this city pop
Speaker 1: pop pop music documentary and I was crying, and I
Speaker 1: was crying real tears. Man. It was like, what's wrong
Speaker 1: with you? Really emotional. I was trying to finish Underground Railroad.
Speaker 1: You know. It was Oh, but when when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, the never ending story was the thing that
Speaker 1: they you know, the scene where he's in the swamp
Speaker 1: of the horse and the horse kind of like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that was. Yeah, it was I had just growing up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that hit a lot of us hard. What is
Speaker 1: the film that people don't generally like. It's not critically acclaimed,
Speaker 1: but you love it unconditioning and you think everyone else
Speaker 1: is an idiot. Yeah. I was actually surprised that that
Speaker 1: Howard the Duck is not a critically acclaimed film. It
Speaker 1: was a It was a movie I watched a lot
Speaker 1: as a kid. It was always on like television, and
Speaker 1: I was just really into it. I would like, I
Speaker 1: remember the song that he was saying, and I think
Speaker 1: I think Leah Thompson plays his girlfriend in the movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. It's a really cool film man. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: people will say it's as you say, as Roy would
Speaker 1: say it's People say it's ship and I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: it's just not a ship film. This is a great film.
Speaker 1: The other one was a last Action Hero came out
Speaker 1: and I remember I was like, oh, this movie bomb
Speaker 1: the tank at the box office and I went and
Speaker 1: saw it and I was like, this is actually a
Speaker 1: really good film. It's like a really fun film. So
Speaker 1: I would say those two, but Howard the Duck, Man,
Speaker 1: I had no idea. I was looking it up on Wikipedia. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it got trash. People hated that movie. It was hated.
Speaker 1: I weirdly think both of those films were ahead of
Speaker 1: that time. How the Duck is very weird, which nowadays
Speaker 1: is fine, and Last Action Hero was very pist mudern
Speaker 1: and Ship, which nowadays is fine. I think they were
Speaker 1: both they flew too close to the sun too early
Speaker 1: or something interesting. Yeah, yeah, what's the film that you
Speaker 1: used to love? You loved it very much when you
Speaker 1: were younger. You've watched it recently, and you do not
Speaker 1: care for it anymore, for whatever reason that may be.
Speaker 1: So this is a combination with the last question of
Speaker 1: Last Action Hero, because when I was a kid, I
Speaker 1: saw A Terminator Too Judgment Day opening day at the
Speaker 1: theater Big Blockbuster, and I loved it. I thought this
Speaker 1: is amazing, and I watched it recently, and I prefer
Speaker 1: Last Action Hero a Terminator two. Right now, I actually
Speaker 1: think Last Action Hero to me holds up better. You know,
Speaker 1: j to the maker of Terminator Too. He's a very
Speaker 1: big important guy. But but I will say as a
Speaker 1: as a combination, I then rewatched the original Terminator and
Speaker 1: that film is a masterpiece. Yeah, a film is a
Speaker 1: masterpiece and talk about something that feels very real, I
Speaker 1: mean just and just so very of its time in
Speaker 1: a very honest and dark way. Absolutely amazing. Watching Terminator
Speaker 1: two and thinking of that film of its time, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's a great piece of entertainment. But I just
Speaker 1: didn't have the same response to it, reaction to a
Speaker 1: relationship to it that I had when I first saw it. Obviously,
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's a twenty twenty five euro film,
Speaker 1: so maybe that makes sense. But then you watched Terminator
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh my god, this film is like
Speaker 1: it is everything so dark, by the way, so dark.
Speaker 1: I mean, even in the world with all these mass
Speaker 1: shootings going on, you watch Terminator and it's like, yo,
Speaker 1: how is James Cameron talking about these things? You know,
Speaker 1: twenty years before you know they became you know, every
Speaker 1: other week in our country you'd have one of these
Speaker 1: things happen. So yeah, Ternado two, man, I just didn't.
Speaker 1: I love that movie, but I just don't have the
Speaker 1: same feeling for it though. Termado one, though, after Peace
Speaker 1: seven two, it's not last action here, all right, Jenkins?
Speaker 1: What what is the I guess I didn't just say
Speaker 1: that love it. What is the film that means the
Speaker 1: mice TA. Not necessarily the film itself is any good,
Speaker 1: but because the experience you had around seeing the film,
Speaker 1: that will always make it special. TA. When I was
Speaker 1: in high school, the first screen came out, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a great great film, really holds up. But I
Speaker 1: went and saw that film like three times in theaters.
Speaker 1: And every time I went to see it, you know,
Speaker 1: me and my high school friends, we would go to
Speaker 1: random movie theaters and we would be in there and
Speaker 1: I don't know how we got away with this. We'd
Speaker 1: be in the back of the theater and we would
Speaker 1: sneak up on people and we would just jump scared
Speaker 1: of the ship certain poets in the film, because we
Speaker 1: knew the jump scare was coming. The whole point that
Speaker 1: you don't know who was on the phone, and who's
Speaker 1: this and that, and so it became like a really
Speaker 1: fun thing. It was almost like a rocky horror picture
Speaker 1: show where we kind of made an event out of
Speaker 1: seeing you know, and we probably should have got our
Speaker 1: asses kicked, to be honest, but it made it really fun.
Speaker 1: You know. It's kind of just thinking about it. It
Speaker 1: came to me because I missed being in theaters. Man,
Speaker 1: I missed being in a room with a bunch of
Speaker 1: people and you know, one person laughs and our eight
Speaker 1: people are laughing. One person jumps out of their seats,
Speaker 1: you know, when everybody's laughing or people are screaming. And
Speaker 1: in this film when it came out, and especially too,
Speaker 1: it was just a more innocent time. I don't know
Speaker 1: that screen would have the same impact today as it
Speaker 1: had back then, but that was an awesome legal experience.
Speaker 1: I mean, just really really awesome. That's fine. On a
Speaker 1: little side. Night I saw maybe you've already done it,
Speaker 1: that you were going to have a screaming of underground
Speaker 1: Railroad the whole thing at a cinema. Yeah, last night, man, oh,
Speaker 1: how did a guy? Yeah it went great. I showed
Speaker 1: up just for the Q and A. I still, yeah,
Speaker 1: I still, I still can't quite do it. But I
Speaker 1: showed up for the Q and A. It was great
Speaker 1: to be physically in a space with real people and
Speaker 1: they had real ass questions, which made me give real
Speaker 1: ass answers. Great. Yeah, it was very cool. And it
Speaker 1: also it just looks great big, But you can't sit
Speaker 1: with an audience with your own work. I am not.
Speaker 1: And also I wouldn't you know when whenever when Moonlight premiere,
Speaker 1: I didn't sit and watch it, and those Street premiered
Speaker 1: I didn't sit and watch it. I just I just can't, Man,
Speaker 1: that's torture. Do you watched Lassa actually watch well? We
Speaker 1: we had a we had a we had a premiere
Speaker 1: in I had a proper premier And it's right, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize we had to sit because like once
Speaker 1: the thing, I was like, oh, we have to sit
Speaker 1: here and watch it. It's it's a very odd experience.
Speaker 1: But I definitely sweated a lot. But on the other hand,
Speaker 1: it's slightly different with Ted Lasso in that when you
Speaker 1: could laughter, it's like, okay, this is going a right,
Speaker 1: it's okay, we're getting audible feedback. But when it's a
Speaker 1: it's a drama, and I guess silence is how you
Speaker 1: know it's going well if you're not hearing people shuffling,
Speaker 1: and yeah, silence is how you know. Or I love
Speaker 1: and Moonlight. When the question in the very first chapter
Speaker 1: where the young boy asks the character one, I'm going
Speaker 1: to coote exactly what he says, he says he asked,
Speaker 1: what's a faggot? You could hear the whole the whole
Speaker 1: audience people just inhaled, just inhaled, and then you would
Speaker 1: you would hear people just keep the breath in, you know,
Speaker 1: until Oma Hirschela as this character starts to explain, and
Speaker 1: you're just the whole audience is riding this way. Is
Speaker 1: he going to get the words right? There's nothing like it, man,
Speaker 1: It's yeah, that's cool. Man. Okay, what is the film
Speaker 1: you might relate to? Barry Jenkins? Actually I couldn't come
Speaker 1: up with an answer for this woman. It's interesting. I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm changing so much all the time that
Speaker 1: I have a hard time to see myself in films.
Speaker 1: I do remember when I was a kid. Spike Lee
Speaker 1: has this film It's one of us is lesser, lesser
Speaker 1: known or less less well regarded works called school Days. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's uh, you know Lawrence Fishburners in it. You know
Speaker 1: a lot of really great actors who go on to
Speaker 1: become like the bedrock of the Spike Lee acting troupe.
Speaker 1: Gen Carlins Posito's in it. But it's about these, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, all these black kids you know in college,
Speaker 1: you know, at an historically black college in the States,
Speaker 1: and it just I knew black people went to college.
Speaker 1: I did, I did, I did. But seeing a whole
Speaker 1: world of just black people in college it kind of
Speaker 1: triggered something in me. I was like, Yo, this is wild.
Speaker 1: There's this whole universe of blackness that because I'm so
Speaker 1: poor and I'm just from such a far away place,
Speaker 1: you know, Miami's like the bottom of the US, it
Speaker 1: just didn't occur to me. And just seeing that film,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it just clicked. You know. It meant
Speaker 1: a lot to me, even though I didn't end up
Speaker 1: going to a university like that, just even the confirmation
Speaker 1: that it was possible. I was like, oh, and this
Speaker 1: is weird. It is like nineteen ninety nineteen ninety two.
Speaker 1: At this point, it should be pretty obvious that you
Speaker 1: don't go to college. But it's what they say, you know.
Speaker 1: I think there's something really powerful and actually like seeing
Speaker 1: seeing someone like you in these spaces that you've maybe
Speaker 1: assumed or something about the world has passively confirmed this
Speaker 1: space isn't for you until Yeah, Spike school days, I'd say,
Speaker 1: is one that is a perfect answer I'm going to
Speaker 1: give you twenty points for that. I've started scoring this
Speaker 1: since you gave that answer. What is objectively, objectively the
Speaker 1: greatest film ever made? Might not be your favorite, but objectively,
Speaker 1: you guys, that is the pinnacle of cinema. Shit, that's
Speaker 1: a tough one. A pinnacle of cinema. It's a peple
Speaker 1: film school. I mean, Mercedes got a couple, you got
Speaker 1: taxi driver, you got raging Bull, you know, Spice got
Speaker 1: do the right thing wise kind love. But for me,
Speaker 1: you know, clarity, and he is my favorite filmmaker, and
Speaker 1: so her best film I think is the greatest film
Speaker 1: ever made. Of this film called Boat Trabai, just about
Speaker 1: these men in the French Foreign Legion. I just think
Speaker 1: it's a it's a perfect film. You know, it's like
Speaker 1: ninety minutes, you get in, you get out. It's just
Speaker 1: nothing but the most essential elements of cinema. But you
Speaker 1: know what it does too, man, because there are great
Speaker 1: films that tell really great stories. You know, you get Vertigo,
Speaker 1: you got north By Northwest, you got all these really
Speaker 1: singing in the rain, all really iconic primarily you know
Speaker 1: old Hollywood films that to tell a great story really
Speaker 1: in a really awesome way. A cinema, This combination of
Speaker 1: sounds and images, it's a whole different thing. If I
Speaker 1: want a story, I read a novel. Cinema the combination
Speaker 1: of light, image and sound, all these different things, the
Speaker 1: absence of life, the absence of sounds sometimes creating that,
Speaker 1: putting that into a very potent mix. It's very difficult.
Speaker 1: It's very rare. And this film is just it is pure.
Speaker 1: It is pure fucking cinema. I mean, it is the purest.
Speaker 1: If I could like just like scoop that up and
Speaker 1: put in a little caviar jar and serve it, you know,
Speaker 1: to take a hit of it, That's what I do. Bro,
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. Give me a print. Give
Speaker 1: me a print of Boltrabai, you do it. Give me
Speaker 1: a print of Boltraba and a sprinkle little olive wall,
Speaker 1: some se saalt on it, and just give me a
Speaker 1: little wardspoon. And that's all I need, Bro, That's all
Speaker 1: I need. Did you see High Life film? High Life?
Speaker 1: I did see High Life. I did see High Life.
Speaker 1: I saw it at the Toronto in a National Film Festival.
Speaker 1: Tricky film, tricky film. I saw that. That is one
Speaker 1: of those films that I saw I saw completely on
Speaker 1: Man when I was in La I think writing Ted
Speaker 1: Last Night Season one. I saw it in this very
Speaker 1: odd cinema and I fucking loved it. But I also
Speaker 1: left there thinking this is going to be a hard,
Speaker 1: hard sell for anyone else, as in I felt like
Speaker 1: I was in a particular mood at a particular moment
Speaker 1: that it really works for me. But my goodness, that
Speaker 1: is a tricky film. Well, and I think that that's
Speaker 1: something I really love about her work, and it's something
Speaker 1: that I seek out and the things that I watch,
Speaker 1: we're talking about death. We've only got so many movies
Speaker 1: we're going to get to watch in our lifetime, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think having an experience that is singular, that
Speaker 1: is singular, that can't be had in the other way.
Speaker 1: The things you feel watching High Life, you're not going
Speaker 1: to get that feeling watching too many other films, you know.
Speaker 1: I think there's something really really lovely about that. I
Speaker 1: wanted to read everything about it after I saw it,
Speaker 1: and I found I found like four podcasts that she
Speaker 1: had done where it was like Q and A's about
Speaker 1: the film, and in every single one she was like,
Speaker 1: I have to be honest, I don't know. I can't
Speaker 1: really talk about films. I don't really know how I
Speaker 1: do it. I just sort of failed them and they
Speaker 1: happen exactly she operates. I mean, I love her legitimately.
Speaker 1: I love her. She operates on her own wavelength. And
Speaker 1: it's not about trying to orchestrate a reaction or to
Speaker 1: build some very clever epiphany of theory. It's just she's
Speaker 1: responding to the world, responding to the characters. It's a
Speaker 1: really wonderful way of working. I admire her greatly. She's amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, she's following this spirit for sure. Barry Jenkins,
Speaker 1: what's the sexiest film you've ever seen? This is a
Speaker 1: tough ask question. This is the question that I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: and the follow up question, by the way, very tough.
Speaker 1: But I would say Bound by the Wachowskis because yes, please,
Speaker 1: Matrix had come out, and this is back when you
Speaker 1: could actually go into a video store. So I watched
Speaker 1: the matrix Is as you're working in the theater that
Speaker 1: some of the Matrix came out. So I saw it
Speaker 1: a lot. I saw it a lot of times and thought, oh,
Speaker 1: this is very cool. How I never heard of these filmmakers,
Speaker 1: and Blockbuster had this film Bound that the Wachowskis had
Speaker 1: made before Matrix. I was expecting this was gonna be
Speaker 1: a very Matrix C type film, and Gina Goshan was
Speaker 1: on the cover box and you know, carry a moss
Speaker 1: and the matrix. You know, I was wearing all the leather. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's definitely the same people. And then I started watching
Speaker 1: this film, and I was watching it, i think, with
Speaker 1: one of my film school roommates, and I just remember
Speaker 1: getting very squirmy because this is, you know, I went
Speaker 1: to school in Tallassee, Florida's the deep South, and this
Speaker 1: is before you know so many things about you know,
Speaker 1: the rights and lives of LGBTQ, plus people were very
Speaker 1: out sort of in like the public conversation and the mainstream.
Speaker 1: And so with this kid who I don't know when
Speaker 1: I'm watching this film, and Gina Goshan and Jenna Fertilli
Speaker 1: are very clearly I mean they are just getting after it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, yo, I kind of feel awkward
Speaker 1: watching this with this person, but in a way, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of kind of like excited about watching this thing
Speaker 1: with this person. Was like, what the fuck do we do?
Speaker 1: And so I just keep watching this movie. At the end,
Speaker 1: I was like, how did the matrix people make this thing?
Speaker 1: And why was that so damn sexy? Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: say bound, that's a very very good outsway they really
Speaker 1: do go after. It's a it's a wonderful film. So
Speaker 1: let's deal with the subcategory to this question, which is
Speaker 1: traveling by in his Worrying White Ones, a film you
Speaker 1: found a rousing. He went, sure, you should. I'm sorry, Barry,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to even ask it, but I have to.
Speaker 1: It's on the list. Yes. By the way, the Worrying
Speaker 1: White Ones is awesome. I think I've ever heard that
Speaker 1: an English saying, but but but I dig um, thank you.
Speaker 1: You know, I think this is actually, this is not
Speaker 1: so bad an answer. I'm gonna go with who framed
Speaker 1: Roger Rabbit? You know, I remember watching that as a kid,
Speaker 1: and I think maybe because I was a kid, it
Speaker 1: was allowed. But uh, I just thought Jessica Rabbit was
Speaker 1: fucking incredible. I remember I would have these dreams about
Speaker 1: Jessica Rabbit and she's a cartoon and it's like it's
Speaker 1: like this, this shouldn't be happening. You know. Again, cartoons
Speaker 1: are one thing. They're very sweet, they're very innocent. I've
Speaker 1: been watching my whole life and now this car tune
Speaker 1: is doing things, is doing things again. I was a kid,
Speaker 1: so I think it was pretty allowable. But uh but yeah,
Speaker 1: frame Roger Rabbit. Yeah, I think that's a perfectly legitimate answer.
Speaker 1: And if that's blow my mind, it blows my mind
Speaker 1: how how that works. Jessica Rabbit works because it does work.
Speaker 1: It entirely works for me. And it is a drawing.
Speaker 1: I don't understand how the world works like that. It
Speaker 1: is is a very persuasive drawing. I mean it kind
Speaker 1: of does make sense. I mean Playboy had cartoons back
Speaker 1: in the day, or I had a you know, I
Speaker 1: had the little little comic drawings, you know, for someone
Speaker 1: the editorials, So it makes sense. It makes sense. I
Speaker 1: wonder if they hired someone I Playboy just to draw
Speaker 1: Jessica Rabbit. Um, now, who's gonna hear this and gonna
Speaker 1: go away? We gotta talk before I say good night, genius.
Speaker 1: We need to talk about what you said. What is
Speaker 1: the film that you could or have watched the most
Speaker 1: over and over again. There's there's two films. One film
Speaker 1: I think makes sense I'm a really big fan of
Speaker 1: David Fincher's a really big fan of it is, and
Speaker 1: I just find his movies to be just infinitely watchable.
Speaker 1: And The Social Network is a movie that if that
Speaker 1: movie's on, I will watch it. If it's on, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna watch it. I'm just I'm not gonna I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna not watch it. You know, if I come
Speaker 1: into it and it's been on for twenty minutes, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna keep watching the next hour and twenty minutes. If
Speaker 1: it's been on for an hour and tim minute's gonna
Speaker 1: watch the last ten minutes. I just I just find
Speaker 1: it imminently watchable. The way he makes his film, it's
Speaker 1: just like it's a drug. It's a drug the other one,
Speaker 1: and so I've seen Social Network a lot of times.
Speaker 1: The other one is very strange. Again, I'm a bit
Speaker 1: obsessed with death and terrified of flying, the combination of
Speaker 1: those two things. Charlie Coffin has a film called Schenectacky
Speaker 1: New York, which many people thank you one of the
Speaker 1: greatest films ever made. I think it's one of the
Speaker 1: greatest films ever made. And Brett, I promise you it's
Speaker 1: probably the film I've seen the most of any film
Speaker 1: because I went on this. I went on this kick
Speaker 1: where anytime I would fly, I would put on Selectic
Speaker 1: Key New York. I had it on my laptop, I
Speaker 1: had it on my phone, I had it on my iPad.
Speaker 1: If I got on a plane, I would just put
Speaker 1: on Selectic Key New York. I was like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: in this very heavy place because I'm getting on this
Speaker 1: thing that terrifies me. I just want to live in
Speaker 1: that emotion. This is the perfect time to watch Charlie
Speaker 1: Kaufman's Selectic Key New York. With as often as I fly,
Speaker 1: I've seen it at least, i'd say, coming up on
Speaker 1: a hundred times, I've seen that film. At least. It's
Speaker 1: fucking amazing that film. And similarly to how I felt
Speaker 1: in terms of Underground Railroad is like, I don't know
Speaker 1: how he made it. I'm like, it's such a huge
Speaker 1: just the levels of it, the scale of it. I'm
Speaker 1: just like, I don't know how he did this, and
Speaker 1: I both. I'm sure you've read it the screenplay, the
Speaker 1: public screenplay of it. I have not read the screen
Speaker 1: but what I have done though, is that he actually
Speaker 1: came to he came to London. He gave a bath
Speaker 1: to talk and his bath to talk. I keep on
Speaker 1: my phone and i'll, i'll we have the same birthday,
Speaker 1: he and I, Me and mister and mister Kaufman. Yeah
Speaker 1: and so yeah, he's somebody very meaningful to me. It's
Speaker 1: funny you mentioned Underground Railroad. The production designer once that
Speaker 1: New York is also the production designer on the Underground Railroad,
Speaker 1: so put some connectivity there. It's just such a deep
Speaker 1: film man. You know, I tried not to take a moment.
Speaker 1: That's kind of why I wanted to do this podcast.
Speaker 1: One of your Twitter fillers like, hey, you should go
Speaker 1: on Brett's podcasts. Bret's got a podcast. Took a listen.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, cool, maybe I should
Speaker 1: if we don't get it, we don't often get a
Speaker 1: time to like sit down and really just step back
Speaker 1: and just talk about shit, just random ship and then
Speaker 1: talking about those things reflect on what it is we do.
Speaker 1: And then a whole movie is Charlie Kaufman coming out
Speaker 1: of this decade of just like I mean, he was
Speaker 1: like he was the hottest of the hot. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I think he's still a genius, but at
Speaker 1: this moment in the mainstream it was like, Charlie Kaplan
Speaker 1: is a genius that does something to you, man, it
Speaker 1: really does something to you. And this film was a
Speaker 1: very public display of all the neroses and just everything
Speaker 1: that I'm sure was swirling within him at that moment,
Speaker 1: and he made a fu masterpiece. It's a masterpiece, man,
Speaker 1: It's incredible. Like, I think there's so many things going
Speaker 1: on that film, but one of them I think because
Speaker 1: I've showed to something, they were like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: really depressing, and I was like, I don't think it
Speaker 1: is depressing. I think it's about a man who is
Speaker 1: so scared of death and illness that he thinks he's ill.
Speaker 1: He thinks he's dying the entire film, but in fact
Speaker 1: how it lives everyone, and in fact it's sort of
Speaker 1: a celebration of life. It's just that he keeps not
Speaker 1: paying attention to the right bit in a way like
Speaker 1: and I love there's a moment. I think it's in
Speaker 1: the trailer as well, but when he's just rehearsing this play,
Speaker 1: he's trying to make this truthful thing, and there's a
Speaker 1: moment so far into the film when when the actors
Speaker 1: say when did we put it on? When is it happening?
Speaker 1: And he's like, it's not finished yet. Neverth it's never
Speaker 1: gonna be finished. Oh yeah, it's good ship. Yeah it is,
Speaker 1: it is. It's it's good ship. And it didn't do well.
Speaker 1: It didn't do well. And I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: because it's it's so honest, it's so brutally honest about
Speaker 1: what it is to do, to do what he does,
Speaker 1: to do what mister Kaufman does, and what he had
Speaker 1: been doing so well and so consistently for so long.
Speaker 1: And I guess maybe that that's the price you pay, man,
Speaker 1: that's the price you pay. And it's a it's a
Speaker 1: real it's very dense and you need to watch it
Speaker 1: a lot. I mean it's it asks a lot of times.
Speaker 1: It times time. Yeah. Yeah, you can recall the trailer
Speaker 1: you did the serving suggestion properly watch it's advertise that
Speaker 1: we could talk about it. I love that. I'm excited
Speaker 1: you chose that, and then that you had the same
Speaker 1: production designer. Congratulations. What do you know what? That's one
Speaker 1: hundred points that one. Now, there's there's a lot of
Speaker 1: human in your stuff. You're very funny. What's the funniest
Speaker 1: film you've ever seen? What a film that made you
Speaker 1: laugh the most? Actually is the question here you go
Speaker 1: that that's that's an that's an easier, easier question of Friday.
Speaker 1: But by Arf, Garry Gray and ice Cube. I mean again,
Speaker 1: I was in college Friday came out. Actually were two films,
Speaker 1: Friday and Half Baked, both came out at the same time.
Speaker 1: And I just remember, you know, freshman year, you just
Speaker 1: go to somebody's dooring room they put on Friday and
Speaker 1: you just laugh your head off. You just laugh your
Speaker 1: head off. Or Half Baked and you just laugh your
Speaker 1: head off. I think the first time I ever smoke
Speaker 1: pot it was while watching Half Baked. That's how That's
Speaker 1: how you should do it. I think, so right, it's
Speaker 1: underrated film Baked. Well, yeah, it depends on who's rating.
Speaker 1: It depends on who's rating bros, who's writing. Because where
Speaker 1: I come from it as a masterpiece, a masterpiece, I
Speaker 1: came right right, and it was kind of the precursor
Speaker 1: of Chappelle. You know, do Chappelle's show that. I think
Speaker 1: it's one of his greatest works, you know, right up
Speaker 1: there in the Hallard Halls of the Godfather Raging Ball. Yeah,
Speaker 1: fucking absolutely right. I don't like to be negative. I
Speaker 1: don't think you love it either. Very quickly, what's the
Speaker 1: worst film you ever saw? Oh? Birth of a Nation
Speaker 1: by D. W. Griffith. Next, you finally fucking nailed it.
Speaker 1: Next question, correct question, next question that next question. That
Speaker 1: one came so much easier than the old traveling piner.
Speaker 1: Barry Jenkins, you have been beyond what I dreamed you'd be.
Speaker 1: I dreamed you'd be great. You've been fantastic. However, when
Speaker 1: you were in a building and a plane flute pass
Speaker 1: and sucks you out of the window and you fell
Speaker 1: many many, many, many, many many many stories, and halfway
Speaker 1: down you were suddenly accepting of it. You thought this
Speaker 1: is quite nice, and you sort of floated down at
Speaker 1: peace with the world. And you smack into the ground.
Speaker 1: And I was walking around and I was like, where's
Speaker 1: Barry Jenkins gone? I've probably lived up in that tall building.
Speaker 1: But then there's this sort of crab gather around and oh,
Speaker 1: you're an absolute fucking mess in the pavement. I'm carrying
Speaker 1: a coffin, you know what. I'm like, always walking around
Speaker 1: for the coffin, and so I'm like, don't worry, guys,
Speaker 1: I'll take care of this. So I screw you up,
Speaker 1: but you are like embedded in the tarmacs. So I
Speaker 1: have to get a fucking digger, one of those JCB diggers,
Speaker 1: drill around your body, try and get as much as
Speaker 1: I can. It's really horrible. So stuff all the bits
Speaker 1: of you into the coffin. But there was far more
Speaker 1: with the tarmac, and everything is far more than I
Speaker 1: planned for. And this coffin is absolutely jammed. It is full.
Speaker 1: There is really only enough room in this coffin for
Speaker 1: me to slide one DVD into the side with you
Speaker 1: to take across to the other side. And on the
Speaker 1: other side, it's movie night every night, and one night
Speaker 1: it's your movie night. What film are you taking to
Speaker 1: show everyone when it's your movie night? In heaven? Barry
Speaker 1: Jenkins go, Okay, when I had the vision, Selectric in
Speaker 1: New York did not exist, so I can't say so
Speaker 1: nexteen New York. I can't say that didn't exist. Movie
Speaker 1: hadn't come out yet ten years before, so I can't
Speaker 1: say that one. So I'll be honest. At the time
Speaker 1: of this vision, the movie of my life was a
Speaker 1: little film from the nineteen eighties starring Bruce Willis called Diehard,
Speaker 1: And so I think Diehard if I'm if I'm being honest,
Speaker 1: I think at that moment in my life having this vision,
Speaker 1: Diehard would have been the film it would have been.
Speaker 1: It's funny you asked earlier, is that the film that
Speaker 1: spark that you thought, oh, maybe I could do say?
Speaker 1: Diehard was the first film that gave me an inkling
Speaker 1: of oh shit, people make movies. Maybe I could do
Speaker 1: that someday. Very random, bread, very random. I love it.
Speaker 1: Diehard has done so much good in the one. That's fantastic.
Speaker 1: Diry Jenkins, You've been wonderful. Is there anything you would
Speaker 1: like to tell people to lookout for to watch? I
Speaker 1: would satadly say, if you've not seen it yet, gets
Speaker 1: on the underground right. Is there anything else he would
Speaker 1: tell me would deliver from Yeah, yea, I would say,
Speaker 1: get to the underground railroad. Yeah. And if you have
Speaker 1: watched it or you haven't. There's a little side piece
Speaker 1: or an indendum to the show, this piece call the
Speaker 1: Gaze that's on my Vimeo page. It was as we
Speaker 1: were making the show, we were paused making the actual show,
Speaker 1: and we would just record these portraits of primarily our
Speaker 1: background actors, and we didn't know what we were going
Speaker 1: to do with them. But I think it just captures
Speaker 1: the essence of what was important to me about making
Speaker 1: the show. And I describe it as being an opportunity
Speaker 1: to visually, you know, get a depiction of my ancestors,
Speaker 1: and it's fifty minutes. There's no dialogue, it's just score
Speaker 1: in people staring directly into the camera, directly at you,
Speaker 1: the viewer, and I'm very proud of it. So I
Speaker 1: would say, seek out the gays. Amazing. I'm going to
Speaker 1: watch that when we get off this same Barry Jenkins,
Speaker 1: I mean, you're brilliant, and no I'm not not to
Speaker 1: say it, but let's say it, all right. You are
Speaker 1: thank you for doing this. I really really appreciate your time.
Speaker 1: It's been an absolute pleasure to talk with you. But
Speaker 1: the pleasures are mine and Brett. I don't know if
Speaker 1: people often say it, I'm gonna say it back to
Speaker 1: you on this show. You are brilliant, my friend. It
Speaker 1: has been an honor to talk with you. Brat, I
Speaker 1: appreciate it, all right, get out of here and be good.
Speaker 1: So thank you very much for listening. That was a
Speaker 1: rewind classic. Join me next week for another rewind classic.
Speaker 1: I hope you're all well, Stay safe, stay good, and remember,
Speaker 1: now more than ever, please be excellent to each other.
Speaker 1: Somebody was uncust it was accustom. Was that it was
Speaker 1: accustom