Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you from the
Speaker 1: home office in Austin, Texas. We're back home after what
Speaker 1: was just another epic birthday week.
Speaker 2: You have made me learn to celebrate birthdays, babe, guys.
Speaker 2: Chris Harrison, he says birthday week. He really believes in
Speaker 2: a birthday month for people. In this case it was himself.
Speaker 2: It was his birthday, so a belated happy birthday.
Speaker 1: It forced me to learn how to celebrate birthdays.
Speaker 2: No, I look, my birthday was always near Thanksgiving and
Speaker 2: so it kind of got thrown in with Thanksgiving by
Speaker 2: my family. Not that they didn't, I mean, my parents
Speaker 2: gave me great birthdays. But you really make a birthday
Speaker 2: and occasion your family's into that, and it really gives
Speaker 2: you an opportunity to celebrate the people you love. And
Speaker 2: I always walk away from when we do everybody in
Speaker 2: our family's birthdays with such a heartwarming feeling because in
Speaker 2: a very fast paced world, it's really nice to take
Speaker 2: a minute to celebrate people. And we celebrated Chris down
Speaker 2: in Mexico with some friends, which is why my voice
Speaker 2: is gone again. I'm going to make you give me
Speaker 2: some lessons on how.
Speaker 1: To yell you do. I used to have the same
Speaker 1: problem and I had to I had to go to
Speaker 1: a voice coding.
Speaker 3: I know we talked about this, but I'm just going
Speaker 3: to take the lessons from you.
Speaker 1: I probably got the appreciation for birthdays, definitely from my
Speaker 1: mom and from my mom's mom, my grandmother. This is
Speaker 1: on the Jewish side of my family, and I don't
Speaker 1: know if maybe it is a Jewish thing of how
Speaker 1: we really appreciate and celebrate another trip around the sun,
Speaker 1: as we like to say. But my grandmother, who lived
Speaker 1: to the ripe old age of ninety nine and a
Speaker 1: half years old, and my mom also bestowed upon me
Speaker 1: how just cherished it is to be written in the
Speaker 1: book of life for another year. And so I have
Speaker 1: taken that to my kids, and hopefully I give that
Speaker 1: to you. But one of the things I love, and
Speaker 1: you are really good about this too. When we get together,
Speaker 1: the revelrie and we have a good time. But there
Speaker 1: was kind of a saying when I grew up, and
Speaker 1: love is spoken here. There's a lot of love in
Speaker 1: the room, and we use that time when we're together
Speaker 1: to have a great time and goof around. But we
Speaker 1: talk a lot about why we love each other, and
Speaker 1: we talk about that to our friends, and when we're
Speaker 1: sitting at dinner, we raise a glass and we talk
Speaker 1: about what we appreciate about each other. And I really
Speaker 1: like and love that, you know, I.
Speaker 2: Was thinking that, I think we've kind of ironed out
Speaker 2: how to do a trip now. I've learned this over
Speaker 2: the past couple of years together because we've done lots
Speaker 2: of trips with our friends, and there is actually sort
Speaker 2: of I have a few tips on the right order
Speaker 2: of things. We usually do no more than three nights.
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't be drinking and partying and having
Speaker 2: like it's like vague. She can really only be there
Speaker 2: for about a weekend and then your body just starts
Speaker 2: shutting down in protest. But night one, everybody's going to
Speaker 2: come in hot, they're excited, So this is not the
Speaker 2: time for sentiment. Night one is get there, greet everybody
Speaker 2: with a margarita. You're just having on your being silly
Speaker 2: night too. Day two like recoop a little bit. You
Speaker 2: hang by the beach, you chill, you start to get
Speaker 2: in conversations, catching up with people, and then day three,
Speaker 2: you can really kind of get crazy again during the day,
Speaker 2: but then on the night, that's when you slow it
Speaker 2: down a little bit and you get a little sentimental.
Speaker 2: You've now had a few days together, You've caught up
Speaker 2: on each other's lives, and you can reflect. And this
Speaker 2: is usually when we do a big dinner and kind
Speaker 2: of go around the table, and if it's someone's birthday,
Speaker 2: like it was yours, everybody might give a little toast,
Speaker 2: which I mean we had. I think four of us cried.
Speaker 2: Well it is, including a couple of male friends, which
Speaker 2: was great.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, and I urge you especially to start
Speaker 1: this at a young age. I am a little bit
Speaker 1: older now. Obviously I got to enjoy another birthday. I'm
Speaker 1: fifty two now. And the older you get, you will
Speaker 1: start going to funerals and you will wish you had
Speaker 1: a moment where you could have told that person how
Speaker 1: much you loved them, what an impression they made on
Speaker 1: your life. And so what I urge you to do
Speaker 1: is have those moments at Thanksgiving, at Christmas, at Hanukkah,
Speaker 1: at whatever, at a birthday. Do it now together when
Speaker 1: everybody can hear it and enjoy it and laugh and
Speaker 1: cry together instead of you're giving the eulogy. And I
Speaker 1: know that may sound a little depressing, but I hope
Speaker 1: you can say that to the people you love. And
Speaker 1: so that's why I like that we take that moment
Speaker 1: and I urge you to do the same when you're
Speaker 1: at a great event with a bunch of people, when
Speaker 1: you look around the table and you're like, these are
Speaker 1: my people. These are the people that move me, that
Speaker 1: get me up in the morning, that help me make
Speaker 1: it through the day. Say that. Use those words and
Speaker 1: put it out there. Don't hold it in. You will
Speaker 1: regret not saying it. Well.
Speaker 2: I'm hoping everybody at home is doing well. I was
Speaker 2: really looking forward to doing this podcast. I'm like, I
Speaker 2: miss talking to everybody. I hope everyone who's listening.
Speaker 1: Is milling well. I miss having these deep conversations.
Speaker 2: Because the last weekend was just a bunch of tequila.
Speaker 1: And by the way we did before we move on
Speaker 1: to our first headline of the day, I caught a
Speaker 1: little shade and I I do like that people are
Speaker 1: listening and they will fire off their opinions. But it
Speaker 1: was really interesting. I got this one opinion sent to
Speaker 1: me disappointing that you were falling victim to giving this
Speaker 1: person their fifteen minutes of fame. This goes back to
Speaker 1: the interview I did in a prior podcast to the
Speaker 1: woman that took the selfie with Miranda Lambert, and Miranda
Speaker 1: Lambert shut her down. And this is a woman. It
Speaker 1: was the local woman in Vegas. If you didn't listen
Speaker 1: to the podcast, you can go back and listen to
Speaker 1: the prior ones. But I'll just give you the little
Speaker 1: nutshell here. She was the one with her five or
Speaker 1: six girlfriends. They paid for the VIP section, they were
Speaker 1: taking their photo and it was a little disruptive and
Speaker 1: Miranda Lambert publicly shame them and shut it down. And
Speaker 1: here's the thing. I didn't give this woman her fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes of fame to get famous, or to agree with
Speaker 1: her or disagree with her. What we like to do
Speaker 1: as journalists is give someone their say, their day in court,
Speaker 1: a chance to speak. I feel like as an interviewer,
Speaker 1: and this is where you can disagree with me. I
Speaker 1: questioned her. I asked her some pretty pointed questions. Do
Speaker 1: you regret this, do you think you were in the wrong?
Speaker 1: Would you do this again now? If you don't like
Speaker 1: what she has to say, that's on her, that's on you.
Speaker 1: And that's how I felt when I was hosting The Bachelor.
Speaker 1: When I put you in the hot seat, I'm going
Speaker 1: to give you the chance to redeem or hang yourself.
Speaker 1: It's totally up to you. It's my job just to
Speaker 1: ask the tough questions and be honest. So if you
Speaker 1: go back, hopefully you will see I wasn't taking a side.
Speaker 1: I didn't say Miranda Lambert was wrong. I didn't say
Speaker 1: that this woman was wrong. That's not up to me.
Speaker 1: I just want to just pose all sides. So there
Speaker 1: we go.
Speaker 2: Well, let's I might take a side about a few
Speaker 2: things we're going to say today.
Speaker 1: We definitely will.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you're in the interview journalist's hat and then sometimes
Speaker 2: you're in the opinionated commentator hat.
Speaker 3: That is what can be confusing about me.
Speaker 1: But I love the comments, by the way, I really
Speaker 1: enjoy I don't take offense to them. I enjoy them.
Speaker 1: If you don't enjoy debate, this probably isn't the forum
Speaker 1: for you, because Lauren and I love to debate. Headline
Speaker 1: number one.
Speaker 2: All right, everybody, you may have heard about Ariana Grande
Speaker 2: getting divorced from her husband, and then the news dropping
Speaker 2: very quickly after their split, news that she is allegedly dating,
Speaker 2: according to multiple outlets, one of her co stars in
Speaker 2: the new movie version of the musical Wicked. So the
Speaker 2: plot thickens even more because it turns out that guy,
Speaker 2: her co star, is separated from his wife.
Speaker 1: Coincidence, total coincidence.
Speaker 2: And now his wife as I could not believe this
Speaker 2: spoken out on the record, this isn't source reporting, This
Speaker 2: isn't sources say. She spoke to The New York Post
Speaker 2: and she said that her family is quote collateral damage
Speaker 2: of this new relationship between her husband, Ethan Slater and
Speaker 2: Ariana Grande. She told page six, quote, Arianna's the story
Speaker 2: really not a girls girl. My family is just collateral damage.
Speaker 2: So that really throws a wrench in I think probably
Speaker 2: you know the room, the story was gonna be, well,
Speaker 2: him and his wife had been, you know, separated for
Speaker 2: a couple months, and she arian and Dalton had been
Speaker 2: separated for a couple months, and now.
Speaker 3: They're just co stars. You fall in love.
Speaker 2: But his wife is being pretty uh, pretty definitive here
Speaker 2: in saying, uh, Arianna's not a girls girl.
Speaker 1: This is a poor man's Mister and Missus Smith.
Speaker 3: Oh, you mean Brad Pitt and Angelina Joel.
Speaker 1: This is Brad Pitt and Angelina, Joe Lee and what
Speaker 1: happened to Jennifer Aniston. This is a very and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of levels to this. We'll start with movie sets.
Speaker 1: Movie sets is the Hollywood version of summer camp. You know,
Speaker 1: when you went to summer camp and you're in this
Speaker 1: weird world and all of a sudden you end up
Speaker 1: making out with that guy or girl that you probably
Speaker 1: never would have made out with or they made out
Speaker 1: with you and you never would have had that shot.
Speaker 1: You get back to regular life in school and you
Speaker 1: break up because you're like, what were we doing? Right?
Speaker 3: We had camp goggles on?
Speaker 1: That is a movie set. You are, you know, shooting Wicked.
Speaker 1: You're shooting Mister and Missus Smith. You're on set.
Speaker 3: You're together all the time.
Speaker 2: You spend so much time again, and let me add on,
Speaker 2: you know, as a theater kid, this is what we
Speaker 2: call a showmance. Yes, and what that means is a
Speaker 2: relationship that develops just during the time that you are
Speaker 2: doing the show, the play, the movie, whatever it is.
Speaker 2: Because It's more than just summer camp in Hollywood. It's
Speaker 2: more than just look. I know, people get close in
Speaker 2: all kinds of work settings. Maybe two people do a
Speaker 2: project together for a while and they get close and
Speaker 2: it's only temporary and they look back and say, what
Speaker 2: were we thinking? But when you're doing a movie with
Speaker 2: someone or a play, you are cast because of chemistry, right,
Speaker 2: So you are literally put together to be intimately closely
Speaker 2: working with people who you have chemistry with.
Speaker 3: This is hard on a relationship.
Speaker 2: It's hard on a marriage if your person's out there
Speaker 2: being cast with and having romantic scenes with someone they
Speaker 2: have chemistry with.
Speaker 1: If you've never seen the movie, or go back and
Speaker 1: rewatch it. Watch the chemistry with Brad Pitt and Angelina
Speaker 1: Joe Lee. It smells like sex. Yeah, I mean the
Speaker 1: chemistry is palpable and it's a good movie because of that.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately for Jennifer Aniston. But you educated me on the
Speaker 1: fact that this is also maybe not something new for Ariana. Well,
Speaker 1: she's a track record.
Speaker 2: She has a song in one of the lyrics, famous
Speaker 2: lyrics of a song that I love is break up
Speaker 2: with your girlfriend because I'm bored, which is not reflecting
Speaker 2: well now, and it's not reflecting well.
Speaker 3: And look, I would.
Speaker 2: There's many layers to the truth, and maybe these two
Speaker 2: were separated, and maybe his wife is really devastated by
Speaker 2: the breakup. But then you have to ask yourself, Okay,
Speaker 2: but why did they separate when he's filming the movie
Speaker 2: and they've only been separated two months, he's already dating
Speaker 2: someone else, and they, I should add, have an infant child.
Speaker 3: So, bro, it is not a good look this guy, Ethan,
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 2: A very bad look that you are dating, even if
Speaker 2: you and your wife really were broken up before you
Speaker 2: ever started dating Ariana. You know, this also raises the
Speaker 2: question of how quickly do you move on You've got
Speaker 2: an infant at home, a baby, You and your wife
Speaker 2: have just split up, and they were high school sweethearts,
Speaker 2: they've been together for years. You don't I don't think
Speaker 2: you start dating someone a couple months in like like just.
Speaker 1: At the very time, at the very least. This dude
Speaker 1: is epically selfish, that's the that's the best. He is
Speaker 1: is unbelievably selfish as a human being and as a father.
Speaker 1: That's the start. My guess is, obviously, if there's smoke
Speaker 1: in this case, there is a burning fire, and Arianna,
Speaker 1: we got to talk about your choices in men.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm really looking at it going I think
Speaker 2: she's beautiful. She's so talented. She seems like an incredibly
Speaker 2: smart business woman. She's built a makeup brand. She's got
Speaker 2: a bunch of hit records.
Speaker 3: What a talent. And I look at the guys she's dated.
Speaker 3: This even guy, this is your co star.
Speaker 2: He's career wise a million levels below her. He is
Speaker 2: just out of a marriage, he's got a kid at home.
Speaker 1: Here's the way I look at it, and correct me
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. Chew toys. There are certain people that
Speaker 1: date a chew toy, meaning you know how a dog
Speaker 1: will just sit in the corner and chew on something
Speaker 1: and then just get bored with it and leave. That
Speaker 1: seems to be the track record that Arianna follows. She
Speaker 1: gets these lesser than men who are not equal or
Speaker 1: better than her. That's who you should be surrounding yourself
Speaker 1: with in life as a friend or a significant other.
Speaker 1: She gets these chew toys and she gets bored with them,
Speaker 1: and she'll move on to the next movie set, or
Speaker 1: the next song, or the next whatever. This guy is
Speaker 1: going to aid like milk.
Speaker 3: Well with there, I feel like an idiot, but I
Speaker 3: just realized what you mean by that. And also I keep.
Speaker 1: Thinking quickly and it'll get stale.
Speaker 3: And honestly, he looks like milk. He's so pale.
Speaker 2: And now I'm just being mean, but it's funny. So
Speaker 2: the husband she was with at Dalton Gomez another one,
Speaker 2: he's like, I think he's a.
Speaker 3: Real estate agent. It's I don't.
Speaker 2: I think it's very difficult to have a successful relationship.
Speaker 2: I would give anybody, including Ariana, this advice when someone
Speaker 2: is so far out of your league, frankly out of
Speaker 2: your realm, and by that I mean, in this case,
Speaker 2: lesser than like, these guys are millions of miles below
Speaker 2: her career wise, they are millions of miles apart from
Speaker 2: her fame wise.
Speaker 3: They're not going to keep up with her. It's not
Speaker 3: going to work out.
Speaker 2: And in this case, it's not a great look because
Speaker 2: you've got a wife and mother saying her family was
Speaker 2: collateral damage.
Speaker 1: And when it comes to a relationship and how we
Speaker 1: relate this to our own lives, it's not that you
Speaker 1: need to marry or be with someone that is the
Speaker 1: same station in the same place as you. It's but
Speaker 1: I think it is important to be reflective of that
Speaker 1: of when you are dating someone, ask yourself those tough questions,
Speaker 1: Why what do they bring to the table? What are
Speaker 1: they equal or better than me? At?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 1: How are they a value add to my life? And
Speaker 1: vice versa? How am I a value add to them?
Speaker 1: How are we equal partners in searching?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Are you have to both add to and expand each
Speaker 2: other's worlds in some way? Well, and there's another story
Speaker 2: that begs many similar questions, which I want to get into.
Speaker 2: I love when I get to talk about housewives. Let
Speaker 2: me give you the brief friend down. Real Housewives of
Speaker 2: Miami star named Lisa. Her husband. It comes out on
Speaker 2: the most recent season of the show comes out on
Speaker 2: the show that he's cheating on her. He's having an
Speaker 2: affair with a woman who's thirty years younger than him
Speaker 2: and Lisa and Lenny they've got two kids, two young kids.
Speaker 2: She's totally blindsided and devastated by this. Now, just a
Speaker 2: matter of months later, they are still married. He proposes
Speaker 2: to the mistress.
Speaker 1: They are engaged, and I love the next step though.
Speaker 3: Lisa's response is so deliciously. I don't savage.
Speaker 1: The genius is in the subtlety.
Speaker 2: She posts on Instagram and says, congratulations to my husband
Speaker 2: and his mistress on their engagement. Congratulations to my husband
Speaker 2: on his engagement is so brilliant because she doesn't say
Speaker 2: anything mean, but it's such a takedown and so weird.
Speaker 1: Think she could have just said you're such a dick right. Instead,
Speaker 1: she said the exact same thing in that one the
Speaker 1: wording perfect.
Speaker 2: Sentence, congratulations to my husband on his engagement.
Speaker 1: You might be the biggest d bag in the country.
Speaker 2: I mean, the Bravo fans are coming for him. A
Speaker 2: lot of people are up in arms about this ariana
Speaker 2: grande situation, and it begs the question for sure, when
Speaker 2: is it okay to start dating? And let's take it
Speaker 2: to the next level now that we've added this second story,
Speaker 2: when is it okay to get engaged or married again
Speaker 2: when you are divorced or in the process of getting
Speaker 2: divorced or separated.
Speaker 1: I have two very strong opinions on this number. One
Speaker 1: having been through very extreme situations where very good friends
Speaker 1: of mine have lost their significant others where there is
Speaker 1: a death. These two people lost their wives. One was
Speaker 1: a long battle with cancer. The other one was a
Speaker 1: short battle with cancer unfortunately, and both of these men
Speaker 1: rebounded quickly, and in our little social circle, they were
Speaker 1: very much judged, and I found it very interesting and
Speaker 1: they both fought against that and said, look, you know
Speaker 1: what's important to me and my kids right now, and
Speaker 1: so a lot of people had really strong opinions, and
Speaker 1: I just kind of sat back to watch it all
Speaker 1: play out. The flip side of that is on a
Speaker 1: more kind of superficial level, where there's cheating involved. Obviously
Speaker 1: you're having that is very different to me.
Speaker 2: I talked about this a lot with my mom because
Speaker 2: you know, we lost my dad obviously, and there's a
Speaker 2: lot of factors there, because if someone's been sick for
Speaker 2: a long time, I do think you're grieving that person
Speaker 2: even while they're alive. Really like you're thinking about the
Speaker 2: loss a lot, and you're starting to go through that process. Interestingly,
Speaker 2: men start dating again more quickly than women after.
Speaker 1: Loss one because we are not equipped to raise kids
Speaker 1: by ourselves, and even as as much of a strong
Speaker 1: dad as I would like to, that is usually the case.
Speaker 1: And both of these men had kids, had young kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I see it from that perspective, and there's
Speaker 2: actually something. I think there's a good intention in trying
Speaker 2: to find a partner to help you raise your kids.
Speaker 2: You want your kids to be loved. Also, you got
Speaker 2: to think about your kids. How are they processing that loss?
Speaker 2: I mean you, you know, there's so much to think about.
Speaker 2: Kids at different ages can be different. So I certainly
Speaker 2: try not. I definitely judge less from a place of loss.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where I would like to separate these topics.
Speaker 1: So if you're listening and you've dealt with that, I
Speaker 1: would say, let's put that in a different basket altogether.
Speaker 2: But I think, no matter what, you know, you've got
Speaker 2: to be careful. You're not making rash decisions when your
Speaker 2: brain's in a place of loss or grief. And that
Speaker 2: might mean a divorce, and you don't rush into anything.
Speaker 2: But I was really trying to think about what the
Speaker 2: barometer is. I certainly think it doesn't look great if
Speaker 2: you get engaged while you're still legally married.
Speaker 1: I think we can all agree on this one for sure,
Speaker 1: is not this does not wan.
Speaker 2: I also have a friend, though, who is trying to
Speaker 2: get divorced from her husband for more than twelve years. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he wouldn't let her get divorced. So what do you think,
Speaker 2: what's your barometer as that?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look at it. Would you have a
Speaker 1: problem if Brad Pitt. I hate to go back to them,
Speaker 1: but would you have a problem if Brad Pitt and
Speaker 1: Angelina Joli got engaged and I guess they can't get
Speaker 1: married because they're still married because their divorce has been.
Speaker 3: Going on like six seven years at this point.
Speaker 1: This entire century. Yeah, I mean it's gotten so ridiculous
Speaker 1: at this point. So either are those extreme situations. But
Speaker 1: I think what we're talking about is basically people who
Speaker 1: barely have their foot out the door, leaving a family,
Speaker 1: leaving young kids. They have so many responsibilities that they're
Speaker 1: running from, and that's exactly what they're doing, and they
Speaker 1: just find something that's easier.
Speaker 2: Here's what blows my mind about the guy from the
Speaker 2: Real Housewife situation. He publicly posts about this engagement, this
Speaker 2: proposal on Instagram. They shared pictures of the proposal on
Speaker 2: top of a cliff somewhere.
Speaker 3: Dude, do you think people are gonna praise you?
Speaker 1: Want? Like?
Speaker 2: You realize you look like a jerk. So that's just
Speaker 2: so clueless to me. At least I'll give Arian and
Speaker 2: this Ethan guy credit. They weren't stepping out on red
Speaker 2: carpets together yet it kind of came out through probably
Speaker 2: the rumor mill on set.
Speaker 3: You can't really hide your dating.
Speaker 2: But this guy's posting the pictures of the proposal.
Speaker 1: Come on, do you? And this may sound terrible, so
Speaker 1: but I'm going to say it publicly in front of
Speaker 1: all of you. Do you have a little I don't know, admiration,
Speaker 1: maybe a little jealousy for people that can live their
Speaker 1: life so a f and just don't care. They're so
Speaker 1: ignorant that they they have such ignorant bliss, like this
Speaker 1: guy can be such a dick and do such a
Speaker 1: stupid thing and put it out to the world and
Speaker 1: expect a pat on the back and just not see
Speaker 1: at all what's going on in the world. I cannot
Speaker 1: see in the rear view mirror that there is such
Speaker 1: carnage behind him. He's just looking into the sunset, going, man,
Speaker 1: how great is this? I'm so in love. I don't
Speaker 1: see my broken family, my kids that are now going
Speaker 1: to be in therapy for the next twenty years, how
Speaker 1: many relationships I just screwed up, like look at us,
Speaker 1: Like how happy I am in this one brief moment,
Speaker 1: Like part of me because I know that one of
Speaker 1: my deficiencies in life is that I care way too
Speaker 1: much what other people think. I've gotten better at it,
Speaker 1: but part of me goes man for just a moment,
Speaker 1: I wish to be.
Speaker 2: Free, to be that, just to be atop that cliff,
Speaker 2: posting those photos.
Speaker 1: Jumping off that cliff like a moron without a parachute.
Speaker 2: Gosh, I mean yeah, because everybody knows they add an affair.
Speaker 3: I guess he's just leaning in.
Speaker 2: He's leaning right into it, and he's really trying has
Speaker 2: tried to convince people. His own His mother, by the way,
Speaker 2: commented on the Instagram. This guy Lenny's mother commented, my, gosh,
Speaker 2: I really hope that you will have, you know, a
Speaker 2: happy marriage and this woman will like love and appreciate you,
Speaker 2: unlike your first wife.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, this is about our past daughter in law
Speaker 3: and the mother of her grandchildren.
Speaker 1: Wow, it's not great, So I'm sure this one's gonna last.
Speaker 2: What do you think when how do you know when
Speaker 2: it's okay after a marriage? You know, say you're separated,
Speaker 2: you've broken up. How do you know when it's okay
Speaker 2: to start dating?
Speaker 1: The problem is you don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is that is I've been racking my brain.
Speaker 2: I don't have a good barometer.
Speaker 1: You can't because there is a sliding scale for everybody
Speaker 1: and it just has to be right for you. And
Speaker 1: to a certain degree, I'm not defending these people, but
Speaker 1: to a certain degree. When I go back to my
Speaker 1: friends and I sat down and asked one of them,
Speaker 1: we had a long talk about this because then I
Speaker 1: went through my divorce and what we realized is that
Speaker 1: people who lose somebody and then you lose somebody in
Speaker 1: a divorce is very different heartache, very different, but sometimes
Speaker 1: you can grieve in very similar ways. But what I
Speaker 1: realized is you have to have a certain amount of
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you also got to
Speaker 1: look out for yourself. You do have to be a
Speaker 1: little selfish. You can't always listen to everybody at church
Speaker 1: or in your social group or on social media because
Speaker 1: they don't know. They also don't have any idea what's
Speaker 1: going on in your day to day life. They don't
Speaker 1: know the truth. Nobody knew the truth about my divorce.
Speaker 1: You don't know what I'm going through. You don't know
Speaker 1: what really happened. You never will. You don't know my
Speaker 1: relationship with my kids. You don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1: And so at the end of the day, that's the
Speaker 1: reason you can't have this two week, three week, one month,
Speaker 1: one year exactly date, because there is no right answer,
Speaker 1: because it's different for everybody. You don't know, as you
Speaker 1: said very astutely, and I guess I should have finished
Speaker 1: that thought when I said, my friend lost somebody after
Speaker 1: a long period of time, they had grief, they had
Speaker 1: grieved for over twenty years. While this, he watched the
Speaker 1: woman he loved die and as soon as she died.
Speaker 1: I don't want to use the word relief, but I
Speaker 1: think for people who have done this, they understand that
Speaker 1: they they have let go of this and it is
Speaker 1: a heavy weight that has been lifted upon them and
Speaker 1: now they they're ready to move on and so and God,
Speaker 1: until you walk in those shoes, you have no idea.
Speaker 2: Well, by the way, that always kind of bothers me
Speaker 2: when people who like I think that the person who
Speaker 2: you're right, you don't know what kind of conversations someone
Speaker 2: in their spouse who passed have had and that spouse
Speaker 2: would want that person to be happy. They'd want them
Speaker 2: to be Like I firmly believe if you are ill
Speaker 2: and you're you know your terminal, all I would ever
Speaker 2: say to my partner is I want you to continue
Speaker 2: life and to be happy. I don't want you to
Speaker 2: be stuck in this grief of me. Why would you
Speaker 2: want that? I do think. I think there are maybe
Speaker 2: three things to consider. One thing to yourself if you're
Speaker 2: going to start dating, especially if you're gonna get engaged
Speaker 2: while still married. Have I considered the feelings of my ex?
Speaker 2: Have I tried to be thoughtful of them? And that's
Speaker 2: not always easy. Some people are in situations where your
Speaker 2: ex is very toxic and you're never going to make
Speaker 2: that person happy.
Speaker 3: But have you tried?
Speaker 1: Two?
Speaker 2: If you have kids, how will your kids feel about this?
Speaker 2: And how will they feel about it one day? Will
Speaker 2: you be able to look back and explain it to
Speaker 2: them and justify it and feel good about the decisions
Speaker 2: you made? And I think three, do you feel like
Speaker 2: you feel good about the decisions you made? Like, like
Speaker 2: you said, you kind of have to protect yourself at
Speaker 2: the end of the day. Can you put your head
Speaker 2: on the pillow at night and say I think I
Speaker 2: did the right thing here. I feel good about this,
Speaker 2: I feel okay about this, And well, then you're gonna
Speaker 2: look back and say I made the best decision I
Speaker 2: could with the information.
Speaker 3: I had at the time, and that's all you can
Speaker 3: ever do it again.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure I recommend proposing to your mistress while
Speaker 2: still married to your wife.
Speaker 1: But hey, and you know, I hate I feel like
Speaker 1: we're on this ride today. We're divorced and breakups or whatever.
Speaker 1: But there was another Housewives situation where doctor Paul Nassef
Speaker 1: was saying that the Housewives and being on that led
Speaker 1: to the demise of his marriage.
Speaker 2: Yes, Paul Nassa formally on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills
Speaker 2: at the time married to Adrienne maloof This was on
Speaker 2: the earlier seasons of the show. They got divorced, they
Speaker 2: split up while on the show, and then he's gone
Speaker 2: on to be unbotched. And I was interested in this
Speaker 2: because it's a question I used to ask of the
Speaker 2: housewives a lot when I would interview them. And you
Speaker 2: just spoke to Vicki Gunwilson. Actually, the Real Housewives of
Speaker 2: Orange County she was married when she first started the
Speaker 2: show to Don and didn't she tell you she thought
Speaker 2: if they hadn't been on the show, they would have
Speaker 2: stayed married.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, whether that's good or bad, you know,
Speaker 1: it was beside the point like if if it you
Speaker 1: know what I mean is sometimes it will just speed
Speaker 1: up the process that's already happening.
Speaker 2: Well, so that was interesting because she said she thought
Speaker 2: they might stay married. Paul actually said, and I think
Speaker 2: he describes probably what a lot of people on reality
Speaker 2: TV shows feel pretty accurately. And by when I say
Speaker 2: people on reality TV shows, I mean cast members of
Speaker 2: regular season shows like Housewives or vander Pump Rules.
Speaker 1: When you come on as a couple, is that is
Speaker 1: the show like a contestant, Yeah, not a relationship show
Speaker 1: like Love Island or Big you know whatever.
Speaker 2: So Paul said of the Housewives, I don't think I'd
Speaker 2: ever do something like that. Again, I think being on
Speaker 2: a reality show it did speed up our demise and divorce.
Speaker 2: I think it was going to happen anyway eventually. So
Speaker 2: the question is does reality TV ruin marriages?
Speaker 1: It doesn't help. It's not going to help. It's not
Speaker 1: going to make it better.
Speaker 2: I think one thing people have to realize and they
Speaker 2: go in naively with this. You can speak to this
Speaker 2: from a producer's perspective, but you've probably been cast on
Speaker 2: that show because the producers could tell you add a
Speaker 2: little bit of a problematic marriage. Producers are casting people
Speaker 2: who they think are going to create good dramatic television.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So of course, I think a lot of people go
Speaker 2: and thinking, oh, I've been chosen. I'm a housewife, I'm
Speaker 2: so charismatic, and I'm a star. But what they don't
Speaker 2: realize is part of the reason these producers cast you
Speaker 2: is they've done their homework, they've done their research, they've
Speaker 2: interviewed you, and they know what to look for, and
Speaker 2: they're hoping for some good story.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: You probably aren't being picked because you're perfect. But I
Speaker 1: think when the light gets turned on and you start
Speaker 1: getting a little bit of that fame you think you are, like,
Speaker 1: I think people get this grandiose idea of who they
Speaker 1: are and all of a sudden you feel like you're,
Speaker 1: you know, Captain America or Wonder Woman or something. That's
Speaker 1: not the case. You're not as great as you think
Speaker 1: you are.
Speaker 2: Well, and then certainly these shows are set up to
Speaker 2: create drama.
Speaker 3: I mean, you're going to.
Speaker 1: Have other people out those stories, yeah, or.
Speaker 2: Even creating stories. I mean there have been lots of
Speaker 2: a cast member will say, oh, I heard a rumor
Speaker 2: that your husband was cheating and it's totally fake and
Speaker 2: it's just been done for the show. But then it
Speaker 2: creates real questions and arguments in your real marriage.
Speaker 1: And so to your point your original question, no, it's
Speaker 1: never going to help a marriage. You're not gonna you know,
Speaker 1: unless the show is just about No.
Speaker 2: People have asked me before if I like, you know,
Speaker 2: there's always rumors of housewives like are they doing a
Speaker 2: real Housewives of Austin? And I've had people ask me, well,
Speaker 2: would you do that? I would be very afraid to
Speaker 2: do that. I love you and I love our relationship,
Speaker 2: and knowing the way reality TV works, I would be
Speaker 2: very afraid to risk us.
Speaker 1: I feel like I would be the Harry Hamlin of
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 3: I think that's the way to do it.
Speaker 2: Would criticize Lisa Rinna because her husband Harry Hamlin, wasn't
Speaker 2: on the show that much when she was on Real
Speaker 2: Houses of Beverly Hills. But I'm watching it thinking Harry
Speaker 2: smartly not on the show because he's thinking, I don't
Speaker 2: want our marriage to be a storyline here.
Speaker 1: No. And so when you come on as an individual,
Speaker 1: whether it's a competition show a relationship show, you're dealing
Speaker 1: with things that just surround you. And sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: you get to the love or an engagement, but it's
Speaker 1: still you. I think when you're dealing with a relationship
Speaker 1: and that dynamic man, that's that's a lot because you
Speaker 1: can be pitted against each other, you can have those
Speaker 1: false rumors brought up. It's just you're dealing with things
Speaker 1: that you're never going to deal with in your day
Speaker 1: to day life. It's just you're just creating. You're running
Speaker 1: into a minefield that you never had to enter, so
Speaker 1: why would you.
Speaker 2: And there's also that element of the show being a
Speaker 2: little bit like therapy. Like you'd said before, The Bachelor
Speaker 2: was like therapy. I do think when people Paul Nass
Speaker 2: have said, maybe we were already you know, headed towards it,
Speaker 2: sped it up. Sometimes when you're sitting and talking with
Speaker 2: a producer for hours on end and answering questions about
Speaker 2: your marriage, maybe you're really thinking and realizing, oh no,
Speaker 2: there's some issues here. This was making me see things
Speaker 2: in a different light.
Speaker 1: For sure, and it can be helpful. And nobody, I
Speaker 1: always said, nobody went on the Bachelor bacherette and came
Speaker 1: out unchanged. I mean, if you did, you're just, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of soulless and you were just kind of going
Speaker 1: through it like a robot. You learn so much about
Speaker 1: yourself because you're putting these extreme situations. And I guess
Speaker 1: the same could be true if you wanted to put
Speaker 1: some sort of a rosy spin on this. The same
Speaker 1: could be said for a relationship. You would come out
Speaker 1: of it. If you survive, you would definitely be stronger
Speaker 1: because you're never going to face anything like that again.
Speaker 1: But I think overall, for me, I just the value
Speaker 1: of what it gives you, I don't know would would
Speaker 1: equal what it might do to my love of my
Speaker 1: life and my relationship with my significant other. Can we
Speaker 1: talk about this Cardi B thing?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: So Cardi B is in Las Vegas and she's given
Speaker 1: a concert at I think she was at dres up
Speaker 1: there and someone, why has this become a thing. Stop
Speaker 1: throwing stuff at people on stage. This isn't roadhouse.
Speaker 3: It's stopping.
Speaker 1: So someone threw a drink at Cardi B performing in Vegas,
Speaker 1: and girl just threw her micro split second, didn't balk.
Speaker 1: She went full major league and threw the microphone at
Speaker 1: this guy. By the way, she's a lefty. She's got
Speaker 1: an arm. She's got an arm. Did you see the throw?
Speaker 3: I I love that she did this joke.
Speaker 2: I love that she did it because I'm not, you know,
Speaker 2: green lighting assault here, but this is self defense.
Speaker 3: Somebody threw something at her, she threw something back. This
Speaker 3: has got to stop.
Speaker 2: At this point, We've had Kelsey Ballerini got a bracelet
Speaker 2: thrown at her face, Bibi Rexa got an iPhone thrown
Speaker 2: at her head, Harry Styles is something thrown at him this,
Speaker 2: and it's just getting scary. Honestly, you can't don't. I
Speaker 2: would not want to be a performer and you go
Speaker 2: out on stage and you're looking at a sea of
Speaker 2: people scared or worried that someone might try to hurt you.
Speaker 2: You don't know what's going to happen next. And I
Speaker 2: love that Cardi B Is like, no, that's not happening here.
Speaker 2: You're gonna get something back when you do that to me,
Speaker 2: because what's the other option. At this point, You've got
Speaker 2: to take a stand because you can't. What what are
Speaker 2: you gonna do? Make thousands upon thousands of people give
Speaker 2: you their phones and their jewelry before they enter your show.
Speaker 2: No drinks are going.
Speaker 1: Through TSA, Come on now, okay. So Cardi also reportedly
Speaker 1: threw her microphone toward a DJ who seemingly was cutting
Speaker 1: her off her songs early during another performance. That was
Speaker 1: reported via TikTok. So. I don't know. We don't have
Speaker 1: video of that one as well, but did she with
Speaker 1: her two microphone throws? But this was the one I
Speaker 1: think comedic part that I took away. Okay, so go
Speaker 1: watch the video and you have Cardi B throw her
Speaker 1: microphone that she was supposedly allegedly singing into. She throws
Speaker 1: the microphone, which you would think would end the song abruptly. Nope,
Speaker 1: the song never stopped. It didn't miss a beat. Clearly
Speaker 1: Cardi B was not singing. There was a full on
Speaker 1: track going. Because the voice didn't change, it didn't stop,
Speaker 1: nothing happened in the audio.
Speaker 2: Expect people to perform live these days, I don't really
Speaker 2: I do do I hope?
Speaker 1: But it's also maybe it's the performers that I love
Speaker 1: that I tend to gravitate towards.
Speaker 2: Look, if Adele was singing a track, I'd be disappointed
Speaker 2: because to me, Adele is her voice.
Speaker 1: I don't want Taylor Swift on her eras tour too.
Speaker 1: I know they all have tracks for certain songs because
Speaker 1: sometimes it's just impossible to hit well.
Speaker 2: You can't be it's dancing and breathing and singing and
Speaker 2: hitting notes, and we you know, the choreography adds on
Speaker 2: to the difficulty for sure, But yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 2: it doesn't. I think I go to a show more
Speaker 2: for the whole show of it. Yeah, and I'm not
Speaker 2: that upset of somebody lip syncs for the whole thing,
Speaker 2: not the whole thing. But I'm but choice tracks I
Speaker 2: woantn't mine. And if they were adding a lot of spectacle,
Speaker 2: like if they're adding choreography and set design and all
Speaker 2: this stuff, it doesn't bother me that much.
Speaker 1: There are different types of shows. I get it what
Speaker 1: you're what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Also, if you're not gonna sound great live, I'd rather
Speaker 2: you just do the track.
Speaker 1: Just why can't we just sit in the parking lot
Speaker 1: and listen to the radios.
Speaker 2: This is why I don't go to that many concerts.
Speaker 1: We can't get into this. We can't we can't go
Speaker 1: that deep into that. But Cardi B love the arm.
Speaker 1: You better be careful because she has got a solid
Speaker 1: arm mode for Cardi.
Speaker 2: She's out there protecting all of the artists. Stop throwing
Speaker 2: things at people.
Speaker 1: Definitely give us your comments on this topic, on anything
Speaker 1: we have hit today, or anything you want us to
Speaker 1: talk about. You can always find Lauren Zima and I
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Lauren Zima, I'm at Chris B. Harrison,
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Speaker 1: podcast ever at the most dramatic pod ever. Leave us
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Speaker 1: love the debate and what this is about is just
Speaker 1: having the discussion, and man, we love talking to you.
Speaker 1: It is good to be back. Although we had shows
Speaker 1: last week for the big birthday week, but I don't
Speaker 1: remember most of them. It was a haze. No, I'm
Speaker 1: just kidding, but we are glad to be home. We're
Speaker 1: glad to be talking to you as always, and we
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