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Speaker 1: P and L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox. Along with my

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg P and L Podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com. The President's phone the point of

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Speaker 1: much speculation and worry. Now we have a new worry.

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Speaker 1: President Trump is fond of using his Android phone, which

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Speaker 1: is not as well protected as some newer versions of

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Speaker 1: other phones. I want to bring in Nicholas Weaver, who's

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Speaker 1: a security researcher at the International Computer Science Center in Berkeley, California. UM. Nicholas,

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Speaker 1: you wrote in a recent UH a recent column that

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Speaker 1: you said that you would basically assign to your UH

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Speaker 1: advanced graduate students the project of hacking into the President's phone.

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Speaker 1: How how easy is it um, assuming it is a

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Speaker 1: Galaxy S three or S four, It is very straightforward,

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Speaker 1: and it's for two reasons. First of all, that phone

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Speaker 1: has known vulnerabilities that you can just basically download and

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Speaker 1: to use one of those vulnerabilities, all you need to

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Speaker 1: do is convince your victim with that phone to click

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Speaker 1: on a link. And given the president's temperament, it's probably

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Speaker 1: pretty easy to tweet something at him that would attract

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Speaker 1: his attention and cause him to click. Well, why doesn't

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Speaker 1: they Why don't they just use them more secure phone,

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Speaker 1: give him that function if you wants it, that outgoing function,

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Speaker 1: and then pair back any of the any of the

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Speaker 1: incoming data. The problem is is what is his workflow.

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Speaker 1: His workflow on that phone is he wants to take

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Speaker 1: phone calls off the book from his friends, and he

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Speaker 1: wants to tweet and read links. And so you could

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Speaker 1: build a more Trump resistant phone, but you'd still need

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Speaker 1: to get him to cooperate in terms of switching over

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Speaker 1: to basically separate devices for his different roles. Well, so

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Speaker 1: let's talk about sort of the past precedent for this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what have previous presidents in the high tech

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Speaker 1: era done? Obama, who was a notorious BlackBerry addict just

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Speaker 1: broke down and used a government device, and um, he

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Speaker 1: joked about the morning process of no longer having his

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Speaker 1: own personal device. What's the what's the drawbacks for them? Um?

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Speaker 1: In order to do a secure device, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be locked down and more limited. So let's say I

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Speaker 1: want a phone that Trump can tweet on. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to want to remove the microphone and camera. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to want to remove the cellular connectivity in GPS because

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Speaker 1: I know he's going to carry it where he shouldn't

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Speaker 1: and he's not going to want a device that's that crippled,

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Speaker 1: all right, So if he doesn't want that device, is there,

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Speaker 1: for example, another device that would do some of this?

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Speaker 1: For example, I know that there's something called the black phone.

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Speaker 1: What would what would that doesn't have the kind of functionality,

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Speaker 1: I guess, but what would be? Uh? What what would

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Speaker 1: be the advantages there? Well, the black phone and Boeing's

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Speaker 1: black type things, those are more locked down Android devices. Um,

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Speaker 1: but it would be a new device for him. He's

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Speaker 1: very set in his ways on comfort level, and it's

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Speaker 1: just a really hard problem to convince the boss to

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Speaker 1: do things securely when he's used to doing things his

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Speaker 1: own way. So if this is a problem CSO's face

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Speaker 1: all over the planet. Well, so, so this is this

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Speaker 1: is my thinking right now, is that potentially, unless he

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Speaker 1: were to remove the phone from the room during any

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Speaker 1: confidential conversation, this could be a pretty pretty serious national

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Speaker 1: national security concern. Is there anything to sort of contradict

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Speaker 1: that that impression? No, And what's right is that he's

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Speaker 1: had this phone for months, and so the real question

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Speaker 1: is is not what is he doing now? Because looking

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Speaker 1: at his Twitter feed, the staff seemed reasonably adept at

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Speaker 1: keeping the phone out of his hands during working hours,

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Speaker 1: since those working hour tweets seemed to be dictated to

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Speaker 1: an aid on a different device. But the problem is

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Speaker 1: is he's had this phone for months, and we have

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Speaker 1: to assume that that phone was compromised months ago. And

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Speaker 1: so what needs to happen is people need to go

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Speaker 1: back and go, Huh, what conversations did I have around

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Speaker 1: the President elect at the time that I would worry

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Speaker 1: if it got to Moscow, Beijing, Tel Aviv, Paris, or

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Speaker 1: any place else. Well, so Nicholas zooming out, Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's been a lot of concern about the security of

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Speaker 1: information among various government officials. We saw this with with

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Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton and the and the d n C. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's your impression of how secure the overall governmental system is. Well,

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Speaker 1: those systems, in many cases are private. Um, the US government,

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Speaker 1: if it's classified, has really good protection. The US government

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Speaker 1: uses multiple layers of protection for classified data, and so

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Speaker 1: unless it's safe for all we know discussed in a

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Speaker 1: marra Lago dining room, the protections are really good. The

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Speaker 1: problem is with the U s government is the unclassified systems,

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Speaker 1: the stuff that's connected to the Internet, and that's just

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Speaker 1: often such an attractive target. The other problem is personal devices.

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Speaker 1: So let's look at that famous photo at maral Lago

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Speaker 1: of a AID illuminating some briefing document with the cell

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Speaker 1: phone camera. This was related to the missile launch from

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Speaker 1: North Korea. Yes, so we had a whole panicked gathering

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Speaker 1: and we saw photos of an AID illuminating a who

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Speaker 1: knows what classified or unclassified document with a cell phone. Now,

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Speaker 1: if this was a government phone, I think it's no

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Speaker 1: worse than having the conversation at marl Ago, where, for

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Speaker 1: all we know, the Russians tip the weight staff better

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Speaker 1: than Trump does. But if it was a private phone,

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Speaker 1: that person is still a high value target and the

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Speaker 1: private devices are nowhere near as secure. So as it

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Speaker 1: was a personal phone, they might as well have just

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Speaker 1: facts that document to Moscow in terms of trying to

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Speaker 1: do a damage assessment. Nicholas, I just curious if let's say,

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Speaker 1: one of the patrons at Mara Lago or in any

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Speaker 1: public setting a meeting of any kind, not just with

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Speaker 1: the president, but if there are mobile phones that are present,

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Speaker 1: is it possible or is it How easy is it

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Speaker 1: to hack into one and use them almost as a

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Speaker 1: listening device for everything that goes on in the room.

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Speaker 1: I keep thinking also of those home devices like the Alexa,

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Speaker 1: the Echo and so on. It really depends on the

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Speaker 1: device and the security model. So like, I use an

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Speaker 1: iPhone and I'm very happy because i know I'm not

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Speaker 1: worth risking a one point five million all or exploit

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Speaker 1: to attack. However, if somebody's using a Galaxy Note or

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Speaker 1: a Galaxy three or Galaxy four and they know they

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Speaker 1: are a worthwhile target, they basically need to throw that

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Speaker 1: phone in the trash because for that phone it costs

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Speaker 1: basically nothing in terms of exploits. That just basically costs

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Speaker 1: having to take a little time to get that victim

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Speaker 1: to click on a link. Thanks very much for taking

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Speaker 1: the time to explain all of this to us. Nicholas Weaver,

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Speaker 1: security researcher at the International Computer Science Center, Berkeley University.

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Speaker 1: Let's get a little bit more color on what exactly

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Speaker 1: happened with Kraft, heins and you Leaver at Hammond is

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Speaker 1: here with us UH he covers takeovers F four Bloomberg News,

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Speaker 1: and I just want to start with some questions. I've

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Speaker 1: got a lot of questions. My first question is, so

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Speaker 1: Kraft made this one billion dollar offer for Unilever, UH,

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Speaker 1: but Uni Leaver spurned that offer, and yet we're still

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Speaker 1: seeing the gains persist in the shares. Can you why why? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a good question, I think for two reasons. I

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Speaker 1: think one, this is not how Craftines intended this information

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Speaker 1: to come out. The rumor had started to get into

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Speaker 1: the market. There was some speculation this morning, so they

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Speaker 1: were forced by the UK Takeover panel to make a statement.

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Speaker 1: I think behind closed doors they maybe would have tried

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Speaker 1: to increase the bid for Unilever and get Unilever to

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Speaker 1: to come to the table and then to negotiations. Isn't

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Speaker 1: it dead, Then it's not necessarily dead. I think there's

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Speaker 1: opportunity for craftin's and obviously backed by three G, this

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Speaker 1: very very ambitious and sort of deal loving Brazilian private

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Speaker 1: ecuity firm. I think there's an opportunity for them to

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Speaker 1: come back with a higher offer. It's unlikely that this

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Speaker 1: would have been their best and final offers. So I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things we were seeing in UNI

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Speaker 1: do the stock right now is the market pricing in

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Speaker 1: a very good chance that this is not end game

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Speaker 1: and that three G, you know, in the form of

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Speaker 1: craft himes, come back to the table and try and

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Speaker 1: get this thing done well Kraft heinds, as statement specifically said,

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Speaker 1: and I'm quoting here, we look forward to working to

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Speaker 1: reach agreement on the terms of a transaction. So in

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Speaker 1: other words, they're still interested. This is just the opening

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Speaker 1: salvo and we see where it goes from here. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're know leaver her talking about the you know, the

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Speaker 1: the deal undervaluing the company. I mean that's sort of

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Speaker 1: classic takeover speak for give us more money and maybe

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Speaker 1: we'll come around. Well, but it's interesting to me that

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Speaker 1: craft shares are up to so in other words, the

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Speaker 1: market thinks that even if Craft were to offer a

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Speaker 1: higher amount, that that's still it would be worthwhile to

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Speaker 1: be a creative right. And and look, this is this

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Speaker 1: is a very good point that speaks exactly to the

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Speaker 1: three G business model, which is they acquire companies to

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Speaker 1: go out, they get scaled, and they essentially make money

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Speaker 1: off of them by cutting costs in an extremely aggressive,

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Speaker 1: almost a sort of barbaric way where they'll go in

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Speaker 1: and they will fire a ton of people, the scale

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Speaker 1: back on every single small item they can to make

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Speaker 1: you know, cost savings, so that the market is looking

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Speaker 1: at this and saying, well, look, you're going to put

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Speaker 1: together a company that is worth a hundred fourteen billion

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Speaker 1: dollars with a company that they're going to pay upwards

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Speaker 1: of a hundred forty billion dollars four and you're going

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Speaker 1: to have this monster, monster sort of consumer products food business,

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Speaker 1: and they're going to extract some huge cost savings from it,

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Speaker 1: just because that is what their model is. You saw

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Speaker 1: them do it with Burger King and Tim Horton's. They

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Speaker 1: obviously did it when they put Craft and Hinds together.

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Speaker 1: They're doing it at the moment when they're in this

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Speaker 1: merger with ant Busch in Bev and s A P. Mayonnaise.

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Speaker 1: That's what I was going to tell you about mayonnaise,

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Speaker 1: because if this deal does go through, you'll have Hellman's

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Speaker 1: mayonnaise along with Heinz Ketchup and Mama. Yeah. Well that

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Speaker 1: was I know right. It's all on the go ahead, Dave.

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Speaker 1: A big deal for the Brits, not so much for

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Speaker 1: the Americans. Well, now, the name that hasn't come up

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Speaker 1: yet is Warren Buffett. Berkshire has behind three absolutely, and

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Speaker 1: you've got to bear in mind I was just looking

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Speaker 1: for the nos Berkshire under the third quarter of about

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Speaker 1: eighty five billion dollars of cash. So what it means

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Speaker 1: is that three G, through their support from Berkshire, has

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Speaker 1: a lot of firepower to go after a company as

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Speaker 1: big as Uni Leaver and bear in mind, this offer

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Speaker 1: as it stands is the fourth largest ever made for

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Speaker 1: any company worldwide, only a O L Time Warner Votus

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Speaker 1: Phone MONISMN and Fightser's failed bid for Alegant or bigger.

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Speaker 1: Those of the kind of stakes we're talking about, Ed,

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Speaker 1: real quick, How big could this get? What are you

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Speaker 1: hearing it could obviously go up a little bit from here.

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Speaker 1: But I think one thing to note on this this

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Speaker 1: buy union of three g war in Buffer is that

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Speaker 1: they do not overpay for stuff. They're quite rigid on

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Speaker 1: price and and they obviously are not gonna want to

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Speaker 1: go in with a huge number and then have to

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Speaker 1: extract a much cost. I think the real issue here

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Speaker 1: is what it would mean for Union Leaver in terms

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Speaker 1: US Leading Economic Index increased again in January, pointing to

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Speaker 1: a positive economic outlook in the first half of this year.

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Speaker 1: Here to tell us more is I can Goldstein can

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Speaker 1: of course economist with the conference board. Here to tell

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Speaker 1: us more can thanks for being where This has always

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Speaker 1: an increase, a jump, and it is described perhaps as

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Speaker 1: being a sharp increase zero point six percent higher. Tell

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Speaker 1: us about the details. Sharp increase for a second straight month.

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Speaker 1: The Coincident Index, that's the one that tells us where

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Speaker 1: we are right now, that continues to sort of move along,

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Speaker 1: creep along, um, you know, not not very strongly. But

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Speaker 1: this is the second straight month that we've got a

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Speaker 1: real strong push and turns the lead index, which is

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Speaker 1: a signal about where we might be going. So we

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Speaker 1: already start with a strong consumer market, strong housing. Maybe

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Speaker 1: this is suggesting either trade and or investment might begin

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Speaker 1: to start to kick in this ring. Maybe you know,

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Speaker 1: earlier this morning, Jeff Rosenberg fixing come strategists at black

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Speaker 1: Rock was on Bloomberg Television and he was talking about

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Speaker 1: how the bond markets right now are wrong in his opinion,

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Speaker 1: and that they are not adequately pricing in the upsurge

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Speaker 1: that we are seeing in inflation prospects. Do you agree, Oh,

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Speaker 1: the bond market has been under pricing for a couple

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Speaker 1: of years, so this is not anything new. But but

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Speaker 1: what indicator in here in this report might point to

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Speaker 1: Jeff's point, which is that that that that it's going

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Speaker 1: to be caught off guards. In other words, it's been wrong. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and yet it's been wrong for a long time, so

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Speaker 1: people could say, well, it's actually been right. The flip

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Speaker 1: side is at what point does this hit the hit

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Speaker 1: the wall? See, this is exactly the question because it

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Speaker 1: isn't just this sector. This isn't just manufacturing or just

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Speaker 1: consumer or just labor. It really is the different you know,

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Speaker 1: pulse beats in the different pieces of the overall economy,

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Speaker 1: either by industry or by region, are all suggesting that

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Speaker 1: the pace of activity will at least steady or pick

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Speaker 1: up as we move into the spring, move into the summer.

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Speaker 1: The bond market is not fully picking that up. Hasn't

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Speaker 1: been for a couple of years, and so the bond

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Speaker 1: market in fact might be caught, you know, dragging its

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Speaker 1: heels at the same time that the stock market might

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Speaker 1: be peaking well. The bond market, you do have to

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Speaker 1: add that it has been artificially uh, I don't even

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Speaker 1: know not you know, help right influenced, I want to say,

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Speaker 1: because of the balance sheet of the Federal Reserve and

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Speaker 1: a variety of other things. So sometimes it's difficult to

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Speaker 1: even call that, um, you know, natural market. I want

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Speaker 1: to go into a little bit of detail on the

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Speaker 1: report because I was looking at two items. One was

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Speaker 1: average average weekly initial claims, plus I was also looking

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Speaker 1: at building permits. Tell us about those two areas well.

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Speaker 1: Claims you know, I have moved down lower than we've seen.

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Speaker 1: I think these are lower numbers, and we've seen in

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Speaker 1: two decades the housing starts and housing permits they move

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Speaker 1: up and down one month, you know, or you know,

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Speaker 1: they fluctuated lot, but they're moving up steadily. And even

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Speaker 1: with that, building supply is below demand, so that there's

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Speaker 1: more room for housing to continue. So that, as I say,

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Speaker 1: both the consumer market and housing they were already doing

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Speaker 1: better than good they're above average in terms of growth.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's going to finally lead some support to the

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Speaker 1: rest of the economy, specifically trade or capex. So at

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Speaker 1: what point will we be able to see the pickup

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Speaker 1: in inflation enough to cause a disruption in markets. It's

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Speaker 1: not a pickup in inflation, in the fact, we might

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Speaker 1: not see that, and it's a pickup in growth, so

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Speaker 1: that you want to look at manufacturing, you want to

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Speaker 1: look at at signals about business investment, you want to

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Speaker 1: look at trade. But so if you said it's not

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Speaker 1: about inflation, so we could get sort of the steady

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Speaker 1: inflation rate that we've seen for a longer period of time,

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Speaker 1: even as growth picks up, Oh absolutely, I mean we're

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Speaker 1: close now to about a two and a pcent rate

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Speaker 1: of growth in terms of inflation. In terms of wage growth,

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Speaker 1: maybe that might move up to three. It might not

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Speaker 1: even move up that much. It certainly isn't gonna move

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Speaker 1: up more than that. So that inflation isn't and hasn't

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Speaker 1: been the problem. The problem really has been how do

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Speaker 1: we goose up growth specifically, how do we get more

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Speaker 1: out of manufacturing, how do we get more out of

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Speaker 1: business investment, how do we get more at a trade

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Speaker 1: and it there's at least a chance that there's enough

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Speaker 1: growth going on, there's enough demand going on to finally

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Speaker 1: force business to move in those kinds of directions. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I can as an economist, I'm gonna pull you out

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Speaker 1: of your your your comforts on just a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I want to get your thoughts on interest rates. You

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Speaker 1: think the Fed is going to raise two three four

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Speaker 1: times this year? Yes, to three or four? I knew

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Speaker 1: that was that was the economist joke. What do you

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Speaker 1: think not only two or three or maybe even four

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Speaker 1: this year, but another two or three next year. We

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Speaker 1: know that they want to get to about a three

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Speaker 1: percent rate for the short end of the Yeld curve,

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Speaker 1: about four and a half five at the long end,

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Speaker 1: and they're finally going to start to move that. The

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Speaker 1: biggest anchor is not what does or does not happen

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Speaker 1: in the States. The biggest anchor is how low, even

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Speaker 1: how negative interest rates are elsewhere. So there's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of balance here between what we're doing and what's

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Speaker 1: going on elsewhere in the globe. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: the U. S economy is strong enough to withstand three

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Speaker 1: four rad hikes this year? Oh, easily, easily, and and

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Speaker 1: what tells us that is there is this momentum that

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Speaker 1: is building in terms of either this is a two

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Speaker 1: month plateau in terms of the YELI turns the leading index,

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Speaker 1: or there's momentum that has been it has been building

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Speaker 1: for some time. It's starting to finally show up. And

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Speaker 1: the surprise is that it took this long to show up,

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Speaker 1: not that it's showing up. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us, Ken Goldstein, really interesting discussion economist with the

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Speaker 1: conference board talking about the leading indicators. Matt Miller, who

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Speaker 1: is our Bloomberg Tell Levision uh and Bloomberg News correspondent,

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Speaker 1: is at the Munich Security Conference. Matt was wearing a

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Speaker 1: hat that in the rain earlier today reporting on what

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Speaker 1: he was hearing. Matt, thank you so much for joining us. Now, so,

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Speaker 1: what what's been the biggest headline that you've experienced at

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Speaker 1: the Munich Security Conference? Well, um, so far, it's interesting

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Speaker 1: to ask all the world leaders who walk past whether

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Speaker 1: or not they think the White House has lost credibility

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Speaker 1: and what their expectations are as far as um the

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Speaker 1: US supporting NATO, especially in regards to any kind of

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Speaker 1: Russian conflict. Most of the people that I've asked and said, Look,

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Speaker 1: we're here to find out the answer to those questions,

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Speaker 1: so we can't give you our answer just yet. It's

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Speaker 1: really a wait and see kind of thing. UM. So

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Speaker 1: it's been very interesting to see that everyone from the

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Speaker 1: most important leaders I speak to, to UM to the

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Speaker 1: soldiers walking around this conference really just want to hear

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Speaker 1: what the U. S position is on Russia, especially as

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Speaker 1: relates to Ukraine. Well, you've got the secred is the

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Speaker 1: Secretary of State? Is he at this meeting, Rex Tillerson?

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Speaker 1: Because I know Maddis, James Maddis and John Kelly they

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Speaker 1: are attending, as well as Vice President uh, Mike Pence.

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Speaker 1: But I thought that maybe it was Rex Tillerson. Is

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Speaker 1: he he's there as well. I I have seen General

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Speaker 1: Maddie walking around, although I was corrected and told he

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Speaker 1: is now to be addressed as Secretary of Maddis. Um.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure which one is is better, but um, no,

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Speaker 1: Rex Tillerson is not here. UM, But we do obviously

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Speaker 1: expect Mike Pence tonight, so and and Rex Tillerson. Tim,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you're referring to the comments that he made

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Speaker 1: in Bonn yesterday has said he expects Russia to uphold

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Speaker 1: its commitments to the mint Minsk Agreement. Um, it'll just

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Speaker 1: be interesting to see it. Pence is um supportive of

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Speaker 1: that as well when he gets here tonight. And I'm

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Speaker 1: actually just about to speak to the President of Lithuania.

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Speaker 1: So that'll be an interesting interview because Donald Trump wrote

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Speaker 1: a letter to her last week saying that he does

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Speaker 1: support Um, well, he supports let's put it this way,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna sound strange, he supports her support of the

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Speaker 1: Ukraine as an independent and sovereign nation. Well, um, and

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Speaker 1: just sort of to your point of that, people are

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Speaker 1: waiting to hear from the US and get there get

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Speaker 1: its position on national security issues. Is there anything else

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Speaker 1: that sort of come out that's a little bit more

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Speaker 1: definitive than just waiting for Vice President Pence to speak

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Speaker 1: or get more color around our policies here. So, so

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Speaker 1: I was asking a lot of people this morning whether

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Speaker 1: or not they think the White House has lost credibility

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Speaker 1: because of this Mike Flynn resignation. And I spoke with

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Speaker 1: John McCain, Senator John McCain UM as well as UM

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Speaker 1: a couple of the other senators who are walking in

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Speaker 1: and asked them, hey, do you think that Mike Pence

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Speaker 1: has lost credibility because um he you know, gave misinformation

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Speaker 1: as far as the contact with with our Russian allies.

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Speaker 1: And Senator McCain said, he didn't, you know, give misinformation,

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Speaker 1: He was given misinformation. He didn't miss lead, he was misled.

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Speaker 1: Uh so appearing to support and the Vice President tent

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Speaker 1: on his way into this conference. Hey man, I'm wondering

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Speaker 1: if you could tell us a little bit about the

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Speaker 1: Russians and the feeling about Russia's power. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: just got a report that Russian fighter jets had buzzed

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Speaker 1: the US worship in the Black Sea. You got the

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Speaker 1: report that Finland is going to boost its army by

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Speaker 1: over because of heightened tensions with Russia. Your schedule to

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Speaker 1: speak with the President of Lithuania. Give us the details

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Speaker 1: if you can. I mean, well, as far as the

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Speaker 1: buzzes of the work, you know, uh well, as a

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Speaker 1: names man that military men often do these kinds of

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Speaker 1: shows of bravado, and it's that's not the kind of

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Speaker 1: thing that's ever probably gonna completely stop interest in Russia's position.

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Speaker 1: And let's say that the two most highly regarded guests

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Speaker 1: here other than Mike Pener and he had a arrived

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Speaker 1: are um president por Shanko from the Ukraine and Sergey Labor.

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Speaker 1: Everyone media pool at least has been following those two

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Speaker 1: around um you know, uh, putting, putting down their every

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Speaker 1: move and just watching to see if we get any

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Speaker 1: hint of whether or not there's capitulation of Russians or

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Speaker 1: a little bit more confidence on the side of Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: Can we just get your thoughts on not a completely

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Speaker 1: different topic, GM selling its European operations to p s

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Speaker 1: A to Pugeau. Yeah, this is fascinating. I was in

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Speaker 1: Russell time yesterday right outside of Frankfurt, which is where

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Speaker 1: um Opal has its main factory. The Germans initially were

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Speaker 1: very unhappy about the way they found out about this deal.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about Anglo America on her cabinets, not thrilled

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Speaker 1: with the fact that they had to find out that

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Speaker 1: the fact that Kim wanted to sell to the show

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Speaker 1: from a Bloomberg scoop on I believe late day. So

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Speaker 1: that uh that aside. Um, it seems that they've kind

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Speaker 1: of come around with possibility that every years have been

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Speaker 1: slightly charmed married bar It. She flew here right after

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00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: this uh cross star wire, and so it may be

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00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: a little bit closer to a deal now we're here.

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00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: Thursday might be Wait, we're losing you in this field.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's we're gonna Matt Miller, thank you very much,

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00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: reporting from Munich, giving us an update on that G

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Speaker 1: twenty meeting, and also a little bit of color on

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Speaker 1: General Motorists and p S a group. You know, the

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Speaker 1: valuation I believe what is it about two billion dollars

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00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: billion dollars right now, the valuation of opal uh in

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Speaker 1: this deal that that GM is talking about with PS

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Speaker 1: like half in cash and half half in liabilities, right,

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00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: so probably will be some debt issuance if this goes through.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at iTunes, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one before the podcast.

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