1
00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,480
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

2
00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:10,640
Speaker 2: What's up?

3
00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 3: Chris's Joe?

4
00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:13,480
Speaker 2: Hi? How are you today? Hey Chris?

5
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 1: How's it going? By?

6
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:15,720
Speaker 2: Tracy? How are you today?

7
00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,360
Speaker 1: I'm good? Thank you. I'm sorry we kept you waiting.

8
00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,599
Speaker 1: I saw your tweet, No problem whatsoever.

9
00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:22,919
Speaker 2: I was just giving you guys a hard time.

10
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:28,000
Speaker 3: So Tracy, we're back with our favorite Dutch bros. Brow

11
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,199
Speaker 3: the brow of the Brow of Dutch Bros.

12
00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 4: I did a deadlift one two, Jimmy, Okay, what's.

13
00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:41,319
Speaker 2: Uh?

14
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:41,959
Speaker 1: Marges?

15
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,199
Speaker 3: This isn't After School Special, except.

16
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,440
Speaker 1: I've decided I'm going to base my entire personality going

17
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,680
Speaker 1: forward on campaigning for a strategic pork reserve in the US.

18
00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,520
Speaker 4: Where's the best with imposta?

19
00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,240
Speaker 1: These are the important question? Is it robots taking over

20
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:54,640
Speaker 1: the world?

21
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:54,880
Speaker 2: No?

22
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,840
Speaker 3: I think that like in a couple of years, the

23
00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,120
Speaker 3: AI will do a really good job of making the

24
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,600
Speaker 3: Odd Lots podcast and people Today, I don't really need

25
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 3: to listen to Joe and Tracy anymore.

26
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:06,400
Speaker 4: We do have.

27
00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,679
Speaker 3: The perfect welcome to lots More where we catch up

28
00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:13,199
Speaker 3: with friends about what's going on.

29
00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,520
Speaker 1: Right now, because even when Odd Lots is over, there's

30
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:17,880
Speaker 1: always lots More.

31
00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:24,440
Speaker 3: And we really do have the perfect guest, Chris Hatch.

32
00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,600
Speaker 3: We talked to him several weeks ago about opening up

33
00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 3: drive throughs. But Chris, what are you up to these days?

34
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, just continue to try and build buildings and figure

35
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,240
Speaker 2: out how to get some of the stuff out of

36
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 2: the ground and get these projects built and constructed. It

37
00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,920
Speaker 2: seems like it just grows harder every day, more and

38
00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:43,720
Speaker 2: more challenges.

39
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,480
Speaker 3: So yeah, So, Tracy, We've talked about like almost every

40
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 3: supply chain crisis under the sun over the last three years.

41
00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,600
Speaker 3: But there's one thing it's been in shortage for forty

42
00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,080
Speaker 3: two straight months according to the ISM, and that is

43
00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,000
Speaker 3: electrical transformers and parts. We've never talked about that.

44
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,120
Speaker 1: You finally get to do your Transformer episode.

45
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,880
Speaker 2: Chris, what's your Transformer in the electrical Sorry, I guess

46
00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 2: I have a six year old son and you talk

47
00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:09,520
Speaker 2: about Optimus Prime.

48
00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, or basically not.

49
00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,800
Speaker 2: Stop at my household?

50
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:16,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know them.

51
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,320
Speaker 3: Well, what does it mean when you're trying to build

52
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,160
Speaker 3: a new Starbucks or Dutch Bros. Location off the side

53
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 3: of a highway in Texas?

54
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,280
Speaker 2: Let's use Utah if that's okay, And mostly just because

55
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,120
Speaker 2: it's easier. There's less power companies in Utah. So starting

56
00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,280
Speaker 2: with Rocky Mountain Power, who supplies the power for probably

57
00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,320
Speaker 2: eighty percent of the state of Utah. There are a

58
00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,200
Speaker 2: few cities that have the power company. There's a different

59
00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 2: power company Southern Utah. You have kind of the main grid,

60
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,720
Speaker 2: So think of that as like, you know, basically the

61
00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,640
Speaker 2: main power supply that's going into a huge city. And

62
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,120
Speaker 2: so once you come off of the grid, the first

63
00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,080
Speaker 2: place the electric comes to is a transformer that sits

64
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 2: on your site. And the easiest way to think of

65
00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 2: it is this is kind of it's a green typically

66
00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,160
Speaker 2: or blue or some kind of kind of darker landscape

67
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 2: colored cabinet that sits in the landscaping area somewhere. It's

68
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,840
Speaker 2: usually two or three feet tall, maybe sometimes four or

69
00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,960
Speaker 2: five feet tall, about three or four feet square, and

70
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,400
Speaker 2: that's where the power comes in from the power grid

71
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,800
Speaker 2: to your site. So that is transfer. Got it.

72
00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,799
Speaker 1: So Joe finally gets his transformer episode. I think he's

73
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:25,079
Speaker 1: been tweeting like religiously every time the ISM survey comes

74
00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,679
Speaker 1: out where they're talking about the shortage. But is it

75
00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,679
Speaker 1: at all common for transformers to go through periods of

76
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,240
Speaker 1: scarcity or has what we've seen over the past couple

77
00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:38,960
Speaker 1: of years now been unusual.

78
00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. Definitely, during the kind of

79
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 2: over the last four years, let's just call it kind

80
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,400
Speaker 2: of the post COVID world, we've definitely seen some real

81
00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,240
Speaker 2: strains on the supply of transformers into the world. At

82
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,200
Speaker 2: the moment, with at least the type of buildings that

83
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 2: I'm building, the transformers actually aren't the longest lead supply item,

84
00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,040
Speaker 2: So that's the first step of where the power comes

85
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,600
Speaker 2: off of the line, and it's actually the switch gear

86
00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,680
Speaker 2: that's the problem right now today is that there's these

87
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,080
Speaker 2: massive delays with switch gear that are going in the

88
00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 2: United States right now.

89
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:13,240
Speaker 3: What's switch gear?

90
00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,040
Speaker 2: So power comes in from the grid to the transformer,

91
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,320
Speaker 2: from the transformer to the meter, which makes sense, that's

92
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,840
Speaker 2: that's what the power company comes and reads to determine

93
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,880
Speaker 2: how much power you use in a month, and then

94
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:27,640
Speaker 2: from the meter it goes to the switch gear. The

95
00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:29,880
Speaker 2: switch gear is where the power comes to your building.

96
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,039
Speaker 2: So this is usually cabinatry that sits flush or on

97
00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:34,960
Speaker 2: the back of the building or one of the sides

98
00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,040
Speaker 2: of the building most of the time. And that is

99
00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,880
Speaker 2: in the example that I've got of a building that

100
00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 2: we are done building the building in West Valley City, Utah.

101
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,039
Speaker 2: I need a sixteen hundred amp switch gear piece so

102
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,960
Speaker 2: that electrical supply is enough to power sixteen hundred amps

103
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,200
Speaker 2: going into the building. So from the switch gear, then

104
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,160
Speaker 2: the power gets distributed to the pan in each individual

105
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:01,839
Speaker 2: tenant space.

106
00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,919
Speaker 1: Wait, so when we say there's a shortage of transformers

107
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,040
Speaker 1: or switch gears or whatever, what do we actually mean

108
00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,440
Speaker 1: here is that you can't get them. So the problem

109
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,119
Speaker 1: is your lead times expand, or the problem is there

110
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,080
Speaker 1: are enough of them to satisfy demand, and so prices

111
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,360
Speaker 1: go up, maybe to a prohibitive point.

112
00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:29,320
Speaker 2: Maybe To start with my specific example, I originally ordered

113
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 2: my switch gear a year ago, April of twenty twenty three.

114
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,520
Speaker 2: I was told that there was a one year lead time,

115
00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:39,840
Speaker 2: which felt like an exorbitantly long time. That's longer than

116
00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,320
Speaker 2: you know, the lead times kind of we're building over

117
00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,159
Speaker 2: the last three or four years. But that was the

118
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,960
Speaker 2: longest we had heard up to that point. So we

119
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,159
Speaker 2: set a schedule with my contractor to have the building

120
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,440
Speaker 2: more or less complete right in April of twenty twenty four,

121
00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,720
Speaker 2: so that the switch gear would then arrive and we

122
00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:59,680
Speaker 2: could power up the building and then the tenants could

123
00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,360
Speaker 2: step in and do their individual build out. The problem

124
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,359
Speaker 2: is that four weeks ago, for the first time, the

125
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,400
Speaker 2: supply house called my electrician, who called my general contractor,

126
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,520
Speaker 2: who called me and said it might be up to

127
00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:13,360
Speaker 2: one more year.

128
00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:18,960
Speaker 4: What does that cost you? Yeah, because you have to

129
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:19,640
Speaker 4: finance this.

130
00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,080
Speaker 3: So it's like, you, could you tell us what's being

131
00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,440
Speaker 3: built here? Is it another Dutch Bros. Or a Starbucks

132
00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:25,839
Speaker 3: or something.

133
00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,359
Speaker 2: It's a great question. This is a four tenant building.

134
00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,520
Speaker 2: It's all restaurants. Cafe Rio is a Mexican grill with

135
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 2: a drive through, Marcos, Pizza, Chip which is a cookie company,

136
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:37,279
Speaker 2: and Jersey Mikes.

137
00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,840
Speaker 3: So what happens when your general contractor or whoever it is,

138
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,280
Speaker 3: gets the call from the electrician like, okay, you got

139
00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:45,000
Speaker 3: to wait another year.

140
00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,200
Speaker 2: You don't just drive to home depot and buy one

141
00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:54,719
Speaker 2: of these parts. They don't exist. So you really have

142
00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,640
Speaker 2: not a lot of great options at that point. And

143
00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,359
Speaker 2: so it's been interesting because most of the people that

144
00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,880
Speaker 2: are sitting in my seat as the developer have no

145
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,400
Speaker 2: idea what to do. And I mean I have talked

146
00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,600
Speaker 2: to probably two or three hundred developers over the last

147
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,440
Speaker 2: two months, you know, a month. As soon as this

148
00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 2: problem became real, I've just started calling every peer I

149
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,160
Speaker 2: know in the space anywhere trying to figure out how

150
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,160
Speaker 2: I can solve the problem. And I would tell you

151
00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,880
Speaker 2: that at least half of the people I've talked to

152
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,000
Speaker 2: are building buildings with a very similar power requirement to mine,

153
00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,160
Speaker 2: and they might they're not as far along in the

154
00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,800
Speaker 2: process as I am, and they're you know, kind of

155
00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,000
Speaker 2: content because they're like, well, we don't have that problem.

156
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,880
Speaker 2: Our switch gear is supposed to be here on this day.

157
00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 2: And as I've dove in further on, there is a

158
00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,760
Speaker 2: big problem. It's not just me. It's not some micro

159
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,000
Speaker 2: issue for Chris Hatches building. This is a massive issue

160
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 2: that's impacting the whole you know, all of North America.

161
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,640
Speaker 1: Really there should be more switch gear sympathy in general.

162
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,880
Speaker 1: But Okay, I get that this is incredibly frustrating for you,

163
00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 1: and you know, waiting a whole year for something and

164
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,880
Speaker 1: then being told that actually it's going to be another

165
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,560
Speaker 1: year is kind of crazy. But in terms of the

166
00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:11,520
Speaker 1: actual financial impact, who does that fall on. Is it

167
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 1: you as the developer, or is it like the retailer

168
00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,440
Speaker 1: Dutch Brothers or whoever who might have preleased that space.

169
00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, in this case, it is the developer that's going

170
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,720
Speaker 2: to take the brunt of that impact. So it's the

171
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,280
Speaker 2: developer being me and my investors that are in the building.

172
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,160
Speaker 2: The good news is we built in a few line

173
00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,920
Speaker 2: items and contingency line items. You don't necessarily hope to

174
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,680
Speaker 2: burn through all the contingency line items. And it's hard

175
00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,560
Speaker 2: for me to guess when the switch here is going

176
00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,320
Speaker 2: to arrive or when I'll be able to source it

177
00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,080
Speaker 2: through an alternate means. If I just look at the

178
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,439
Speaker 2: one year out and we sit with this building. My contractor,

179
00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,320
Speaker 2: by the way, finished the entire building two fridays ago,

180
00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,760
Speaker 2: so they're done with the site. There's nothing left for

181
00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,440
Speaker 2: them to do on the building until the switch gear

182
00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:56,920
Speaker 2: gets here.

183
00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,360
Speaker 3: So there's this whole complete building that would others be

184
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,080
Speaker 3: totally ready for the Mexican restaurant and the pizza restaurant,

185
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,720
Speaker 3: et cetera to move into. And the one thing that's

186
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,280
Speaker 3: preventing it is this part that could still take another year.

187
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,120
Speaker 2: Yes, and I mean we're just we're not doing anything

188
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,480
Speaker 2: crazy here. We're trying to serve the world. You know,

189
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,440
Speaker 2: tacos and pizza and cookies and sandwiches, right, you know,

190
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,840
Speaker 2: And so if I just sit for one year, you know,

191
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,480
Speaker 2: first off, I'm going to have to go extend my

192
00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,400
Speaker 2: loan with the bank for sure, because I don't think

193
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,440
Speaker 2: I have a full year of time. But if they

194
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,319
Speaker 2: allow me to continue on it more or less the

195
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,960
Speaker 2: same terms I'm at today, my dead interest carry just

196
00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,400
Speaker 2: my just my interest expense for holding the building for

197
00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,760
Speaker 2: a year or one hundred and fifty eight thousand dollars.

198
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,280
Speaker 1: Wait, I still don't understand, like why do we have

199
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,040
Speaker 1: the shortage again? Can you maybe expound on that a

200
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,319
Speaker 1: little bit more? Like what is the bottleneck here? Exactly?

201
00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 1: So okay, switch gears, sure, but like who is making

202
00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:55,560
Speaker 1: these things?

203
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,040
Speaker 4: Yeah?

204
00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,160
Speaker 2: Sure? So if you think of it in terms, if

205
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,960
Speaker 2: you start looking at it through first, how the contracting

206
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,000
Speaker 2: typically works. A developer contracts with a general contractor when

207
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,160
Speaker 2: he goes to decide to build a building, and the

208
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,440
Speaker 2: contractor is going to build that building for them. The

209
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,199
Speaker 2: contractor then signs up subcontractors, one of which is an electrician.

210
00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,920
Speaker 2: The electrician then signs up through a supply house an

211
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,200
Speaker 2: order that's going to get filled. You know, and what

212
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,760
Speaker 2: they're filling is whatever the developers, you know, electrical engineer

213
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,080
Speaker 2: had specked for the building.

214
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:28,400
Speaker 1: Right.

215
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,400
Speaker 2: So in this case, it's this sixteen hundred and am

216
00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,840
Speaker 2: switch gear and then you know, my five panels that

217
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,200
Speaker 2: I've ordered, and so he's ordering that through a supply

218
00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,680
Speaker 2: Here she was ordering that through a supply house, and

219
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,880
Speaker 2: then occasionally a supply house orders through a larger regional

220
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,960
Speaker 2: supply house, and then the regional supply house then orders

221
00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,360
Speaker 2: from the manufacturer. Right, So haldful steps, But that's kind

222
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:50,720
Speaker 2: of how the contracting works.

223
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,880
Speaker 3: That was literally just the description that was this, you

224
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,600
Speaker 3: just walked us through the supply chain.

225
00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,560
Speaker 4: Okay, keep going, but that was fantastic, yeah, right.

226
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,800
Speaker 2: So the real of that exists here is that there's

227
00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,400
Speaker 2: more or less five big manufacturers of all of this

228
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,480
Speaker 2: electrical gear. So whether you're talking about the panels, or

229
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,440
Speaker 2: the transformers, or the metering equipment or the switch gear,

230
00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,560
Speaker 2: all of it, it's all coming more or less from

231
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:19,640
Speaker 2: five big manufacturers. Semens, Eaten, Color, Hammer, Square D and

232
00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 2: then GE sold off recently there unit a couple of

233
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,400
Speaker 2: years ago, and I can't remember the subsidiary that they've

234
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:40,720
Speaker 2: sold it to. But those five provide the electrical components.

235
00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,800
Speaker 3: When your developer talks to the electrician, or the electrician

236
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,000
Speaker 3: talks to the supply house, or the supply house talks

237
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,360
Speaker 3: of the regional supply house, of the regional supply I

238
00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,880
Speaker 3: was talking to the manufacturing Did they give you a reason?

239
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,120
Speaker 3: Do they say what's going on? Or do they explain why? Hey,

240
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:57,959
Speaker 3: we told you it was going to be April twenty

241
00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,959
Speaker 3: twenty four, and now it's going to be April twenty two.

242
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:01,840
Speaker 4: Do they give you some sort of excuse?

243
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,480
Speaker 1: Or yeah? Can you can you call them up and complain?

244
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 1: Can you be like an electricity Karen or something like

245
00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:08,400
Speaker 1: what what do you do?

246
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not much recourse. I mean, that's that's the downer.

247
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,520
Speaker 2: It's an interesting world. And I don't know why it

248
00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,840
Speaker 2: is exactly. And and Joe, you and I were tweeting

249
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,120
Speaker 2: about this or dming about this before the show. But

250
00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,079
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, anytime you deal in electrical electrical is

251
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,360
Speaker 2: hand in hand with man'splaining. It doesn't matter what you do,

252
00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,440
Speaker 2: somebody's gonna man explain you how you're wrong. And so

253
00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,800
Speaker 2: even this podcast episode will come out and hundreds of

254
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,360
Speaker 2: people will man explain, Dared say something or Tracy, Yeah.

255
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,520
Speaker 1: It just I'm sure man explain to me.

256
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:41,080
Speaker 2: I'm not.

257
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,360
Speaker 1: If a guy explains transformers to another guy doesn't count

258
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,240
Speaker 1: as man explaining.

259
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,160
Speaker 4: Then it's just explaining.

260
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:49,680
Speaker 1: Explaining in a gender.

261
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:50,880
Speaker 3: What did I tell you?

262
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 2: What?

263
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,720
Speaker 3: What's the what's the how do they man explain it to?

264
00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,480
Speaker 2: Well? That's the interesting thing. It's it's you know. I

265
00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,960
Speaker 2: So I started calling through. I started with my electric

266
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,360
Speaker 2: Then I went to my supply house, and I quickly

267
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,120
Speaker 2: realized my supply house. We have two supply houses in

268
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,760
Speaker 2: the state of Utah, and they're both too small for

269
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,480
Speaker 2: the vast majority of their orders. They order through a

270
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,439
Speaker 2: regional supply house. They don't order direct from the manufacturers,

271
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,800
Speaker 2: and so that's not a very good position to be in.

272
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,600
Speaker 2: And so I started I going to Twitter, I went

273
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 2: to LinkedIn, I went to colleagues. I started pushing this

274
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,800
Speaker 2: message out and since then, I have spoken to somewhere

275
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,360
Speaker 2: around one hundred people that have told me they have

276
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,000
Speaker 2: a guy or they have somebody that can source the

277
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,000
Speaker 2: materials that you know what I need the switch gear,

278
00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,800
Speaker 2: and I've been off phoe with them, and a lot

279
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 2: of those folks were the regional supply house contacts. And

280
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,480
Speaker 2: here I had to try to not lose my cool

281
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,160
Speaker 2: because multiple times I was talking to somebody the regional

282
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,840
Speaker 2: supply house and my particular order is for Siemens switch gearboard,

283
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,880
Speaker 2: and so the regional supply house person would talk to

284
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,160
Speaker 2: me and say, well, give me your you know, give

285
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 2: me your spec send them all over to me. I'll

286
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,320
Speaker 2: call the manufacturer, I'll find out where you are in

287
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,880
Speaker 2: the order process, and then I'll call you back and

288
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,640
Speaker 2: tell you if I can move you up, and then

289
00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,160
Speaker 2: what it will cost us for, you know, for the

290
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,839
Speaker 2: fee to move you up. And you have to kind

291
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 2: of not lose your mind right there, because you're looking

292
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 2: at your supply house saying, why couldn't you move me up?

293
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 2: Are you not? You don't have the capabilities, you don't

294
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 2: have the buying power. For what reason can you not

295
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 2: get this faster? Why do I have to go through

296
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,840
Speaker 2: this alternate path to go somewhere else? And you know,

297
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 2: it's really just a buying power thing, you know. And

298
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,320
Speaker 2: so this is kind of assessing the problem. So I've

299
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,520
Speaker 2: spent thirty days figuring out what the problem was. I

300
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,880
Speaker 2: feel like I've at least come to some version of

301
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,080
Speaker 2: a conclusion of what this is. And I don't. Look,

302
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,520
Speaker 2: I'm not some end all expert. I have no idea.

303
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,840
Speaker 2: I went to you know, college, and I studied finance.

304
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 2: I didn't studied electrical supply chains. So nor do I

305
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,360
Speaker 2: totally understand how electrical systems work. I just know that

306
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 2: I have a building, you know, that's burning, and I've

307
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,600
Speaker 2: got a lot of interest carry every month, and so

308
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 2: now I'm trying to come up with all t solutions

309
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 2: for how to get my electrical insight.

310
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,640
Speaker 1: Part of me is amazed that it's now twenty twenty

311
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,040
Speaker 1: four and we are still talking about shortages that are

312
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,560
Speaker 1: this impactful. So, Joe, I remember when we spoke about,

313
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,800
Speaker 1: you know, residential real estate. We would talk about the

314
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,720
Speaker 1: idea that maybe there's like a sink missing or something

315
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,440
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one or even early twenty twenty two.

316
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,800
Speaker 1: But it is the persistence of this particular shortage is

317
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:29,920
Speaker 1: kind of mind blowing.

318
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:30,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

319
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,200
Speaker 3: I mean, I imagine when you were building buildings like

320
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,960
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one, I assume, like many others, you

321
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:40,680
Speaker 3: had multiple shortages of things like is that the case?

322
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,560
Speaker 3: Like was there a time when, like, you know, like

323
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:47,400
Speaker 3: everything was in scarcity for you. Yeah, and then what

324
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,880
Speaker 3: like so do any of these people that you get

325
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,360
Speaker 3: on the calls like have an exploration for why this

326
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,280
Speaker 3: particular supply chain hasn't caught up?

327
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,000
Speaker 2: Not not really great And so that's had to I

328
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,760
Speaker 2: think I've had to really do a lot of homework

329
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 2: in other areas to figure out what the problem is.

330
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 2: But when you start to think through it logically, it

331
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,920
Speaker 2: does start to make sense. I mean, think about the

332
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,520
Speaker 2: amount of electrical vehicle charging stations that have come into

333
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,520
Speaker 2: the country just over the last couple of years here,

334
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 2: think about the amount of data centers that are going in.

335
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,520
Speaker 2: Think about what the amount of energy requirement has increased

336
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,920
Speaker 2: just with the invention of you know, like chat, GPT

337
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,960
Speaker 2: for example, right and AI, And think about all of

338
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 2: that is requiring power. You have solar farms going in

339
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 2: left and right. I mean, all of this stuff ultimately

340
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:43,080
Speaker 2: all has electrical components, and there are five major manufacturers

341
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 2: that produce all the electrical components. And so I think

342
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 2: it literally is just a product through the system problem.

343
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,160
Speaker 2: And I think to totally understand that, you would probably

344
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,680
Speaker 2: need to get somebody you know on the pod here

345
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,880
Speaker 2: from one of those manufacturers by the.

346
00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 3: Way, Tracy, you know obviously we touched on some of

347
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:02,560
Speaker 3: the stuff recently with our episode with Steve Eisman, like

348
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,639
Speaker 3: some of these like old school industrial players that have

349
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,280
Speaker 3: went to the moon. I just looked up Eaton, which

350
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,359
Speaker 3: I don't think had come up on a previous episode

351
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,240
Speaker 3: is one of the names we talked about. That is

352
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,879
Speaker 3: another stock that basically.

353
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,199
Speaker 4: Looks like in Vidia right now when you look at it.

354
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,320
Speaker 3: Here is this like sleepy stock from a few years

355
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,320
Speaker 3: ago and then now in this great electric era of

356
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,440
Speaker 3: electrification that is like another stock disc gone absolutely to

357
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 3: the moon.

358
00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,840
Speaker 1: It is truly remarkable that there are those sort of

359
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 1: old school companies out there. I mean, Tractor Supply is

360
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,399
Speaker 1: another one. But these businesses in the business of doing

361
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,359
Speaker 1: these old fashioned things that look like semiconductor stock charts.

362
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's really remarkable. So Chris, you posted on Twitter,

363
00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,840
Speaker 3: You're like, someone just goes start a electrical components factory

364
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 3: in Mexico.

365
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:49,600
Speaker 4: You get upset up?

366
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 3: Did anyone take you up on that offer? Is something

367
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,159
Speaker 3: going to get built to expand this capacity that you

368
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:54,399
Speaker 3: know of?

369
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,760
Speaker 2: There are a number of people that are trying to

370
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 2: figure it out, I would you know, the obvious statement

371
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,680
Speaker 2: here is that when Siemens is one of the companies

372
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,399
Speaker 2: that you're competing against or I mean, I don't know,

373
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 2: you've got the stocks in there. I'm not sure what

374
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,639
Speaker 2: the market cap is on Eaton. None of these are

375
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,879
Speaker 2: small companies, right, so I think there's pretty good fear

376
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,720
Speaker 2: from those that are in the manufacturing space that they're.

377
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:18,920
Speaker 4: That's what Eaton is asked about.

378
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,480
Speaker 2: How do we actually Eaton.

379
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,520
Speaker 3: Is one hundred and thirty nine billion dollar company? Now,

380
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,760
Speaker 3: oh no, no, sorry, Siemens is one hundred and thirty nine

381
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 3: billion dollar company. Eton is just a oh yeah, it's

382
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,159
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty five billion dollar Yeah. So these

383
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,159
Speaker 3: are massive company as we're talking about, right.

384
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,399
Speaker 2: So the concept that you're just going to walk out,

385
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,159
Speaker 2: you know, and grab a pe firm that's worth you know,

386
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,680
Speaker 2: twenty thirty billion dollars ago just compete head to head

387
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 2: against these companies is a little bit intimidating. I'm sure.

388
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,119
Speaker 2: What is interesting is the reason I reference Mexico is

389
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 2: because one of the possible solutions that's come forward here

390
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,639
Speaker 2: on our building and one of the paths I'm actually

391
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,080
Speaker 2: going down is we have a friend that runs some

392
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 2: factories and wars and I got on the phone with

393
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 2: his engineer that runs his five factories. They have like

394
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 2: six or seven thousand employees, whole bunch of people that

395
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 2: work for him there, and so these are very large facilities.

396
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,640
Speaker 2: I got on with his engineer, and his engineer reached

397
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,520
Speaker 2: out to his electrician and we have actually sourced the

398
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:18,399
Speaker 2: exact same semen spect item that's going to come from

399
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,919
Speaker 2: a Mexican supply house that is supposed to deliver in

400
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:21,879
Speaker 2: eight weeks from today.

401
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 3: Oh well, this is like I was, this was going

402
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,560
Speaker 3: to be my concluding thought, which is that in any

403
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 3: business a delay is awful and costly. But it feels

404
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,400
Speaker 3: like when interest rates are as high as they are

405
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 3: right now, it just sort of compounds the crisis. And so,

406
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,919
Speaker 3: like you know, obviously eight weeks versus year is always

407
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 3: going to be like a massive difference for anyone in business,

408
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 3: but with interest rates high, it really is striking the

409
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,359
Speaker 3: degree to which these sort of like supply chain constraints

410
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,160
Speaker 3: and high interest rates are like these like interlocking problems

411
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 3: that compound each other.

412
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, my concern is I have no idea if this

413
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,160
Speaker 2: is gonna show up weeks, you know, So here you are,

414
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 2: you know, you're setting off a wire for a substantial

415
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 2: deposit for these units, and you have no idea if

416
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,199
Speaker 2: this is going to show up any faster. Right At

417
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,199
Speaker 2: one point I was told twelve months, and then we

418
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 2: got to eleven and a half months, and then I

419
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,159
Speaker 2: was told maybe twelve more months, could be longer, don't know,

420
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,560
Speaker 2: And so you know, it's just such an unknown world.

421
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 2: One of the other things that's causing some constraints on

422
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,200
Speaker 2: the supply as well. So you know, Tracey, you asked

423
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 2: the question about what's causing the problem, Well, the factories

424
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,199
Speaker 2: is just a throughput issue, I think. But then on

425
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,879
Speaker 2: top of that, you have a number of tenants that

426
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 2: have identified that this is a big problem. And so

427
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 2: if you're in hyper expansion, you know, we started talking

428
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 2: about Dutch Bros. If you're in hyper expansion, it's the

429
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 2: same switch gear to build the Dutch Bros. Whether you're

430
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 2: in Arkansas or Florida, or Texas or Utah or wherever

431
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 2: else you are. So companies like that are going out

432
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 2: and buying fifty and one hundred switch gears at a time,

433
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 2: and then they basically what they do is they sell

434
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,360
Speaker 2: me as the developer a switch gear when we're ready

435
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 2: for the switch gear.

436
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: It's crazy that you have to switch gears because of

437
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 1: the switchcars.

438
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. And then then there's this whole other world.

439
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 2: There's this whole other world of people, and these are

440
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 2: a lot of the man's players, for sure. There's this

441
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 2: whole other world of electricians that have seen this problem

442
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 2: coming down the line here, and what they've been doing

443
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 2: now is basically buying parts opportunistically over the last twenty

444
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 2: four months. And so my switch gear in West Valley

445
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 2: is sixty two thousand dollars. That's what it costs me

446
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 2: to order it through from Siemens, and then there's markup

447
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 2: to the supply house and everybody else involved. But the

448
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,960
Speaker 2: actual unit cost sixty two grand. So that unit I

449
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 2: have been getting quoted. There are people who are building

450
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 2: these and they're kind of Frankenstein switchgearboards because they're basically

451
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 2: piecing anything together they can find to make it work,

452
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,400
Speaker 2: and they're piecing those together and you can usually get

453
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,160
Speaker 2: the power companies sign off on them. The cheapest I've

454
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 2: seen out of those those folks is three x so

455
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 2: three times my cost.

456
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 3: Well, I hope you get your switch gear in eight

457
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 3: weeks from now.

458
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: Switch Gear and gear.

459
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:15,959
Speaker 3: Us keep us updated on the journey.

460
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: Lots More is produced by Carmen Rodriguez and dash El Bennett,

461
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: with help from Moses Ondom and Cal Brooks.

462
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 3: Our sound engineer is Blake Maples. Sage Bauman is the

463
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 3: head of Bloomberg Podcasts.

464
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: Please rate, review, and subscribe to Odd, Lots and lots

465
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: More on your favorite podcast platforms.

466
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 3: And remember that Bloomberg subscribers can listen to all of

467
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 3: our podcasts add free by connecting through Apple Podcasts.

468
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.