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Speaker 1: Speaks to the planet. I'll go by the name of

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Speaker 1: Charlamagne Tha God. And guess what, I can't wait to

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Speaker 1: see y'all at the third annual Black Effect Podcast Festival.

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Speaker 1: That's right, We're coming back to Atlanta, Georgia, Saturday, April

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Speaker 1: twenty six at Poeman Yards and it's hosted by none

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Speaker 1: other than Decisions, Decisions Man, DyB and Weezy. Okay, we

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Speaker 1: got the R and B Money podcast. We're taking Jay Valentine.

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Speaker 1: We got the Woman of All Podcasts with Sarah Jake Roberts.

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Speaker 1: We got Good Mom's Bad Choices. Carrie Champion will be

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Speaker 1: there with her next sports podcast and the Trap Nerds podcast,

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Speaker 1: with more to be announced. And of course it's bigger

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Speaker 1: than podcasts. We're bringing the Black Effect marketplace with black

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Speaker 1: owned businesses plus the food truck court to keep you

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Speaker 1: fed while you visit us. All right, listen, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to miss this. Tap in and grab your tickets

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Speaker 1: now at Black Effect dot Com Flash Podcast Festival.

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Speaker 2: Take a deep in through your nose.

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Speaker 3: Holds it.

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Speaker 2: Now, release slowly again deep in haale hold release, repeating

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Speaker 2: internally to yourself as you connect to my voice. I

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Speaker 2: am deeply well I am deeply Well. I am deeply Wow.

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Speaker 2: I'm Debbie Brown, and this is the Deeply Well Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to land on

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Speaker 2: your journey. A podcast for those that are curious, creative,

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Speaker 2: and ready to expand and higher consciousness and self care.

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Speaker 2: This is where we heal, this is where we transcend.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. I am Debbie Brown. Today's

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Speaker 2: episode we are going into uncharted territory and I cannot wait.

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Speaker 2: We haven't yet had a chance on this show.

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Speaker 3: To really.

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Speaker 2: Explore the question of what does it mean to see

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Speaker 2: the world, what does it mean to experience the world?

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Speaker 3: Culturally?

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Speaker 2: As a species, we are more open, aware and awakened

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Speaker 2: to how vast this planet is and how different it is,

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Speaker 2: and yet so many of us still stay inside of

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Speaker 2: tight constraints, or wrestle with fears about exploration and adventure

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Speaker 2: or giving ourselves access to true freedom. And in this

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Speaker 2: episode we get to explore all of that. Today's special

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Speaker 2: guest is someone that I've been waiting and waiting to

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Speaker 2: have on this show. I got a copy of her

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Speaker 2: book and it is one of my son's favorite things.

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Speaker 2: Ever since I have he is always opening it looking

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Speaker 2: at the picture, where is this? But where in that

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Speaker 2: country is this? Asking questions and it's really brought him

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Speaker 2: to life with so much curiosity. So I am just

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Speaker 2: so excited to have this special guest today. Jessica Nabongo

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Speaker 2: is on the show. Jessica Nabongo is a GLOAE Global Citizen,

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Speaker 2: a master storyteller and travel expert who is the first

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Speaker 2: black woman to have traveled to every country in the world.

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Speaker 2: Named one of the fifty most Notable People in Travel

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Speaker 2: by Travel and Leisure, Jessica uses her platforms to educate

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Speaker 2: and inspire others to experience the world around them and

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Speaker 2: build a global community with an emphasis on bringing untold

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Speaker 2: stories to the world. Her first book, The Catch Me

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Speaker 2: If You Can. One Woman's Journey to Every Country in

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Speaker 2: the World, published by National Geographic, was an instant bestseller.

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Speaker 2: A first generation American, Jessica was born and raised in

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Speaker 2: Detroit by Ugandan parents. She attended Saint John's University in

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Speaker 2: New York, where she earned a degree in English literature,

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Speaker 2: later completing a graduate degree at the London School of Economics.

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Speaker 2: She is also the founder of the lifestyle brand The Catch.

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Speaker 2: When She's not on a plane, she is home tending

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Speaker 2: to her plants into h and La. Welcome to the.

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Speaker 3: Show, Jessica, No, thank you for having me. I'm so

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Speaker 3: happy to be here.

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Speaker 2: I am so happy to have you. And I think

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Speaker 2: the first question I need to ask you is how

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Speaker 2: many countries have you been to this month?

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Speaker 3: Where have you traveled in this last few weeks? I

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Speaker 3: was in Guyana in South America, and then Trinidad, and

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Speaker 3: I was in Tobago as well, Granada for like ten hours,

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Speaker 3: which was crazy, and Barbados.

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Speaker 2: We are halfway through the month.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think I've taken ten flights this month so far. Wow.

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Speaker 2: And how long has this been your life?

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good question. I mean, so I've been

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Speaker 3: traveling internationally with my family since I was four, but

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Speaker 3: you know, over seventy flights a year probably like the

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Speaker 3: last fifteen years. Wow, it's been a lot.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I mean, how special, What a special.

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Speaker 3: Life, what a rare life?

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Speaker 2: Very rare?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, very rare. I got my email from Delta, which

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Speaker 3: was like the year end wrap up, and I'm in there.

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Speaker 3: One percent of flyers like I fly more than all

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Speaker 3: of their pilots, which is crazy.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about some of those perks, like what does

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Speaker 2: life look like when you are an Airlines one percent?

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Speaker 2: It's good.

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Speaker 3: It's it's funny because just coming down from San Francisco,

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Speaker 3: I had the same flight crew that flew in from

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Speaker 3: Detroit to SF, and so I get on I was like, hey,

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Speaker 3: I know you guys, and they were like, it's you.

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Speaker 3: And so then you know, like when I see like

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Speaker 3: staff that I've seen before, it's so cool because it's

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Speaker 3: pretty rare no matter how much I fly, it's very

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Speaker 3: rare to see the same flight attendant, so it actually

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Speaker 3: feels like family. Yeah. And when I landed in La

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Speaker 3: the delta like VIP woman and she wasn't there for me,

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Speaker 3: but she was outside of the door of the plane

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Speaker 3: and she's like, where have you been? And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: we actually I moved And it was just good to

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Speaker 3: see her because it's just these familiar faces that I

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Speaker 3: would see like once a week being at the airport

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Speaker 3: all the time. So it feels good. It's comfortable, you know.

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Speaker 3: We always love being number one on the upgrade list.

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Speaker 2: Listen, one thing I wanted some parks sprinkle special right, and.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes they give me like little notes, which is very cute.

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Speaker 3: As well.

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Speaker 2: So I remember recently, I forget where I was. I

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Speaker 2: think I was fine in New York. And you know

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Speaker 2: how they have like their commercials like and please do

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Speaker 2: the da da da, And the man in the commercial

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Speaker 2: was my flight attendant. Oh that's so on that flight.

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Speaker 2: So I literally kept looking at the screen and looking

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Speaker 2: at him, looking at the screen, looking at him, like

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Speaker 2: what that's And it felt so special because yeah, as

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Speaker 2: much as you you know, I think, in no way,

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Speaker 2: shape or form, am I as traveled as you, my dear,

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Speaker 2: But you know, I probably pro I fly a few

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Speaker 2: times a month for work, and you know, I always

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Speaker 2: expect to run into people at the airport. I never have.

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Speaker 2: I always expect to see the same flight cuse I've been,

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Speaker 2: you know, traveling for decades and you never do. It

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Speaker 2: is kind of rare, you're those airports are such a

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Speaker 2: it's just such a transient experience. It feels otherworldly sometimes.

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Speaker 3: And it's interesting because this week was quite kismet. I

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Speaker 3: was very exhausted, as you can imagine. I got back

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Speaker 3: from Barbados at like three am Friday morning, and I

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Speaker 3: was on a flight to SF by like four pm

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Speaker 3: on Saturday. So it was a lot, right, and I'm

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Speaker 3: super exhausted. That flight Monday from San Francisco to La

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Speaker 3: ran into my friend Janenna like he was sitting in

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Speaker 3: my row. I was like, how is this happening? The

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Speaker 3: flight attendants, the woman who works for Delta here, And

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Speaker 3: then in the airport I saw another friend, Kid Fury,

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Speaker 3: who many people probably know, and it was just it

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Speaker 3: felt sel kismet. I was like, Okay, I'm supposed to

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Speaker 3: be here, despite the exhaustion and everything. It's like that

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Speaker 3: n that I call it winks from the universe that

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Speaker 3: I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, So when you when you first set out on

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Speaker 2: this journey, right, like when you first approached well, actually,

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Speaker 2: my question would be, how did you decide that you

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Speaker 2: would visit every country in the world? And when did

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Speaker 2: the vision come to you or the call?

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Speaker 3: So I you know, I'm a geography nerd. I had

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Speaker 3: traveled a lot, and I always knew I wanted to

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Speaker 3: visit every country in the world. I started my blog

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Speaker 3: to Catch Me if you Can in two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 3: and every year I would do a year and wrap

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Speaker 3: up because I had these little maps like this where

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Speaker 3: I've been mapping, so I would fill in my map

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Speaker 3: and it was so exciting to me to just continue

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Speaker 3: filling in the map. So I thought, Okay, I'll visit

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Speaker 3: every country in the world by the time I'm like

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Speaker 3: forty or fifty. Then in twenty seventeen, I was in Bali.

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Speaker 3: I was trying to find myself. I had quit my

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Speaker 3: last corporate job, like maybe a year and a half before,

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Speaker 3: and I was unsure. I was just kind of like

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Speaker 3: in the wind, just going traveling but with no clear direction.

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Speaker 3: And I remember I was sitting with a friend and

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Speaker 3: I said, I want Oprah to interview me, and she

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Speaker 3: was like, why would Oprah interview you? I was like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm gonna figure something out. And around

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Speaker 3: that time, there was an American woman who got the

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Speaker 3: Guinness record for doing it the fastest and she made

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Speaker 3: headlines and I was like, people care that people travel

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Speaker 3: like because at that point I had been to sixty countries,

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Speaker 3: which is a lot a lot. Yeah, but I didn't,

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Speaker 3: you know, I didn't really make a thing of it.

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Speaker 3: It was just like, this is a thing that I'm doing.

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Speaker 3: So I found myself in an internet rabbit hole, as

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Speaker 3: one does, and found out about like the country counting

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Speaker 3: community found out that at that time, less than one

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Speaker 3: hundred and fifty people had been to every country in

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Speaker 3: the world. Wow. Yeah, Yeah. The numbers have shot up now,

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Speaker 3: definitely because of social media. And I'm like, I'm am

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Speaker 3: I part of the problem. I don't know, because now

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Speaker 3: you have a lot more people who want to do it.

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Speaker 3: I think now maybe it's around three to four hundred

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Speaker 3: people have done.

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Speaker 2: It, which is I mean, just can we put that

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Speaker 2: in context for a second. There's nine billion people on

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Speaker 2: the planet, right, nine billion?

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Speaker 3: Like that is that is rare air. Yeah, And people

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Speaker 3: often ask me like did you did you do it?

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Speaker 3: Or did it happen? I'm like no, it takes intention,

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Speaker 3: it takes effort, it takes resilience, it takes focus, it

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Speaker 3: takes a lot. Because the thing is, the Guinness record

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Speaker 3: for visiting every country in the world is like eighteen

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Speaker 3: and a half months, one hundred and ninety three countries

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Speaker 3: they count eighteen and a half months. I did one

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Speaker 3: hundred and thirty five new countries in two and a

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Speaker 3: half years, and that felt very fast to me. Wow.

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Speaker 3: But for me on the journey, I wanted to have

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Speaker 3: cultural experiences in every country. If you do the Guinness Record,

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Speaker 3: you're literally like they're touching down right, they're getting on

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Speaker 3: the plane, going through immigration, and getting back on that

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Speaker 3: same plane. Because there's so many countries in the world

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Speaker 3: that don't have flights every day. So it took real

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Speaker 3: effort and real intention because I was driven by like

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Speaker 3: my curiosity of humanity, and I wanted to see how

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Speaker 3: people lived everywhere in the world. And you know what

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Speaker 3: I came out with is like, we're way more similar

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Speaker 3: than we are different, because we're all just humans. Like,

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Speaker 3: take away race and gender and all of the things, right, accent, nationality,

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Speaker 3: take it all away. We're all just human. We're all

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Speaker 3: made up of the same things. Right. We may look different,

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Speaker 3: but we're all made up of the same exact things.

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Speaker 3: And the other lesson that I learned is that most

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Speaker 3: people are good. We're living in a time where they

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Speaker 3: the big Day want us to distrust our neighbors, they

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Speaker 3: want us to distrust the stranger in the street. But

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Speaker 3: what I've found I've traveled solo to over one hundred countries,

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Speaker 3: is that most people are good. The only reason that

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Speaker 3: I've been able to remain safe in every country. Yes,

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Speaker 3: that includes Afghanistan, North Korea. All of them is because

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Speaker 3: of strangers, people who you know, cared for me when

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Speaker 3: I was in their country, people who wanted to make

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Speaker 3: sure not only that I was able to explore and

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Speaker 3: understand their culture, but also that I remain safe. Those

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Speaker 3: were strangers.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I have so many questions. I want to

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Speaker 2: pivot to you from here, and I need to apartmental

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Speaker 2: all of them in a list in my brain because when.

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Speaker 3: I say every people are like, but you've been to Afghanistan,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, it is a country. You've been to North Korea.

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Speaker 3: It's a country.

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Speaker 2: Talk to me about North Korea.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so North Korea, actually it doesn't feel like what

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Speaker 3: people think it what that's turk Ministan, which is that

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Speaker 3: creepy not creepy, I don't want to say creepy, eerie, eery,

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Speaker 3: ear yer ear. Turk Ministan has that eerie feeling of

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Speaker 3: I'm being watched. Where are all of the people? Why

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Speaker 3: are these wide streets so empty? H turk Ministan felt

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Speaker 3: like that North Korea we have felt relatively normal, and

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Speaker 3: that's what I found the most fascinating, Like there aren't advertisements,

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Speaker 3: which seems like not special in any way, but if

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Speaker 3: you go out of your home, you realize there's adverts

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Speaker 3: everywhere around us, like constantly influenced exactly billboards, and it's

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Speaker 3: a lot of stimuli there. You don't have that. But

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Speaker 3: what I found, like the normal side of things is

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Speaker 3: like you saw couples in the parks holding hands. You

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Speaker 3: saw people taking like wedding pictures in front of national monuments.

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Speaker 3: We went to the grocery store, there was just people there,

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Speaker 3: and we ended up going to a bar one night,

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Speaker 3: and you know, we went to the subway and people

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Speaker 3: are just living their life now. Of course, like only

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Speaker 3: certain people have access to live in Poonang, the capital,

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Speaker 3: but the people living there have pretty what I would

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Speaker 3: consider to be a regular life, like I've seen in

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Speaker 3: every other kindry everywhere.

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Speaker 2: I was just kind of speaking freely and having emotions

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Speaker 2: and having experiences. They're just being humans. This is fat,

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is fact. The answer this show. I

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Speaker 2: have riquestions because like a couple of years ago, well

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Speaker 2: many years ago, I just was on a deep dive

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Speaker 2: and I was watching taking in so much information about

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Speaker 2: North Korea.

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Speaker 3: So this is just wow. Yeah, And the thing is

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Speaker 3: I don't do a ton of research before I go places,

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Speaker 3: so like I have a pretty solid level of understanding

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Speaker 3: of most of the world. I went to London School

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Speaker 3: of Economics. I studied international development, so it was like

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Speaker 3: a global political and economic history of the world, so

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Speaker 3: I have some knowledge of every country. But I never

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Speaker 3: did like deep research. I was kind of like I

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Speaker 3: wanted to go in led by curiosity, so I didn't

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Speaker 3: go in to confirm what I thought I knew. I

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Speaker 3: went in to ask questions and to listen and to learn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's super powerful. What a beautiful way to see

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Speaker 2: the world. You know, when you so spiritually speaking and

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Speaker 2: in my stay understanding of consciousness and experiences with we

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Speaker 2: tend to have when we're open to them and life

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Speaker 2: aligns really really powerful. Quantum leaps in two year cycles.

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Speaker 2: So when you're telling me that you saw this many

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Speaker 2: countries in the span of like two and a half years.

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Speaker 2: Spiritually speaking, our four year cycles are really potent, but

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Speaker 2: two year cycles are really where like you try on

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Speaker 2: and begin to embody an entirely different version of who

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Speaker 2: and what you are. Like there is a deep, deep, cellular, emotional,

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Speaker 2: spiritual freedom that comes when you're interacting with it and

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Speaker 2: participating with it in two year cycles. So I'm so curious,

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Speaker 2: you know because obviously I imagine two and a half

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Speaker 2: years seeing that much of the world and being as

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Speaker 2: intentional as you are and as curious and as kind

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Speaker 2: of rooted in the cultural experience, you probably didn't really

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Speaker 2: get to interact with your friends and family too much,

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Speaker 2: so you're kind of isolated inside even though you're in

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Speaker 2: the world. And so, was there a transformation that took place?

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Speaker 2: And if so, like what was that and how did

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Speaker 2: that feel as you were in motion?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's interesting because I never thought about it, right,

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Speaker 3: I never thought about that two year block. But if

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Speaker 3: I think about like my thirty third birthday to my

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Speaker 3: thirty fifth birthday, yeah, I was a completely different person.

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Speaker 3: And I think one of the biggest things for me

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Speaker 3: was that I started to live where I was right, So,

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Speaker 3: like that idea of living in the present became really

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Speaker 3: important because when you're in Samoa and like there's a

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Speaker 3: seventeen hour time difference from where most of your friends

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Speaker 3: and family are, I can't live in both places.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to choose.

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Speaker 3: And I chose to be hyper present everywhere that I

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Speaker 3: was and to your point. It left me a bit isolated,

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Speaker 3: you know, and it's something that I still feel today

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Speaker 3: because it's out of sight, out of mind, right, And

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people feel that I'm unreachable,

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Speaker 3: but I'm like, I have WhatsApp, you can always reach me.

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Speaker 3: But I think, yeah, Like I think there was a

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Speaker 3: spiritual elevation that took me out of my home connections

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Speaker 3: but put me into connection with the world in a

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Speaker 3: way that very few people that I meet are, even

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Speaker 3: people who've been to every country in the world. I

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Speaker 3: think I've had incredibly different and unique and deep experiences

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Speaker 3: because I was intentional, because I see everyone as human.

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Speaker 3: I don't care if you're black or white, or Asian

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Speaker 3: or whatever. I'm here and I'm looking at you, and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, who are you as a person. I don't

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Speaker 3: care if you're a celebrity. I don't care if you're

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Speaker 3: a homeless person on the street. Like, I'm going to

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Speaker 3: treat everyone with respect because you are a human. And

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Speaker 3: for me, I'm human before i'm anything else. I'm human

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Speaker 3: before i'm a woman. I'm human before i'm black. I'm

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Speaker 3: human before i'm anything else. And that's how I moved

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Speaker 3: through the world.

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Speaker 2: What did you feel, you know, looking back now, from

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Speaker 2: the age you start in the age you finished, what

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Speaker 2: changed about you?

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I would go back further than

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Speaker 3: the two years because so i'd been so I was

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Speaker 3: in sixty countries by the time twenty seventeen came about,

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Speaker 3: and so I had been traveling a lot. I think

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Speaker 3: one of the big things that changed. I have very

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Speaker 3: little fear of anything. And when you can release fear,

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Speaker 3: the whole the whole world opens up, right, But beyond that,

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Speaker 3: like your soul is at peace. Fear is certainly irrational,

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Speaker 3: but fear terrorizes us, and fear causes us to have

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Speaker 3: high stress levels, and it releases cortizone and all of that.

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Speaker 3: But like, you know, people are like, oh, you weren't

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Speaker 3: afraid when you went to Afghanistan or Iran, And I'm like, no,

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Speaker 3: I'm not afraid of people. So if I'm not afraid

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Speaker 3: of people, what am I afraid of? Am I afraid

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Speaker 3: of the trees?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 4: What?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: Like, of course things can go wrong. But what I've

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Speaker 3: realized recently because I always post my crazy airport travel

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Speaker 3: videos that I know everybody like, I love them, what

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Speaker 3: I realize is that because people are like, no, you

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Speaker 3: have to leave early. What if there's an accident?

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Speaker 2: What this?

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Speaker 3: What if that? I realize I don't plan for the

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Speaker 3: what if. I don't plan expecting for things to go wrong.

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Speaker 3: I always expect everything to go right, and I expect

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Speaker 3: the world to open up for me. If there's traffic,

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Speaker 3: I expect there to just be a lane and there's

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Speaker 3: no cars, and it's just like, oh, me and my

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Speaker 3: uber are gonna go in that lane. That's what I

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Speaker 3: go out expecting. So no, there's not like accidents on

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Speaker 3: my way to the airport. And you know, no, I

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Speaker 3: don't miss bag Drop because I don't expect that to me.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not magnetizing it to me. We are magnets

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Speaker 3: like this. I believe we can. We can draw people

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Speaker 3: to us, we draw energy to us, we draw events

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Speaker 3: to us. And because I'm constantly seeking the good, the positive,

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Speaker 3: the magic, that's what's being drawn to me. So I

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Speaker 3: don't have anxiety when I'm at the airport and you know,

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Speaker 3: Bagdrop closes in three minutes and I just walked in

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Speaker 3: the door, I'm just like, yeah, I got three minutes

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Speaker 3: to get from the door there. That's easy. Breezy. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'm not thinking like, oh what if I trip? But

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Speaker 3: you know I don't think about that, and I think, yeah,

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Speaker 3: like really traveling, traveling solo, traveling solo to you know,

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Speaker 3: so called dangerous countries and surviving it. It's allowed me

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Speaker 3: to release so much fear.

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Speaker 2: Deeply. Well just one of the things I think is

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Speaker 2: so powerful about what you're saying, and I want everyone

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Speaker 2: to track this because when you remove a belief that

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Speaker 2: there's limits on your life, right, when you remove any

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Speaker 2: barriers you have to your personal freedom and autonomy, the

386
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: natural unfolding that comes from that, it's really a tremendous

387
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Speaker 2: amount of miraculous energy that surrounds you, tremendous amount of

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Speaker 2: synchronicity and serendipity. And it's like, you know, not only

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Speaker 2: are you not planning for that, The thing is, if

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Speaker 2: that were to happen, something would instantly, a new timeline,

391
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Speaker 2: a new a new opportunity would instantly come in to

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Speaker 2: greet you, and then you'd be on the aligned path.

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Speaker 2: So it's like, get what I'm hearing and what you're

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Speaker 2: saying is you know the words I'd use for that.

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Speaker 2: It's it's surrendering to alignment in your life. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's like you are in flow with your call and

397
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Speaker 2: with your movement, and so all of the universe conspires

398
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Speaker 2: for all of us when we tap into our freedom.

399
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Speaker 2: When that's the case, when we do believe that, like

400
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Speaker 2: there's no limits on my life, there's nowhere I need

401
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 2: to be afraid. And this is not naevita, right, Like,

402
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 2: you know the difference you know when someone is like

403
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 2: bypassing or avoiding or having you know, those rose colored

404
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Speaker 2: glasses on as like you know.

405
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Speaker 3: A way to self avoid.

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Speaker 2: But then there is that real state of like earned

407
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Speaker 2: freedom internally that shifts everything about how the world meets you.

408
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Speaker 3: It shifts every thing, and it gives you a lightness,

409
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Speaker 3: right like I And you know a lot of people

410
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 3: are suffering from anxiety. I think a lot of that

411
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 3: has kicked up because of our habits with like social media.

412
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 3: I'm just overexposure to other people's lives that we do

413
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 3: not need. But when it's too much, but when you

414
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 3: can release that, it's just I can't even express truly

415
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 3: like the lightness of being that it is like people

416
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 3: see me, you know, It's I always think about the

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Speaker 3: airport thing because so many people are like, you are

418
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Speaker 3: giving me a panic attack, and I'm like, wow, I

419
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Speaker 3: feel nothing, like I'm moving, I'm breathing fine, I'm like

420
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Speaker 3: I'm chewing like you know what I mean. So it's

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Speaker 3: it's just it's a freedom that I really hope everyone finds.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I want to talk about you know, one

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Speaker 4: of the things I when I think about the we're

424
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Speaker 4: friends and when I think about the themes of.

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Speaker 2: Our conversations, they tend to really rest. And it was

426
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Speaker 2: funny because I asked you for some keywords earlier. Our

427
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 2: conversations actually rest in these keywords freedom, grief, love, and

428
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: through traveling the world. My God, the many faceted ways

429
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 2: that one can be brought to deeper understanding of all

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Speaker 2: those three things. What is traveling the world taught you about?

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Speaker 3: Love? That love exists everywhere that all of us can access.

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Speaker 4: Love.

433
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 3: Love exists in poverty, love exists in wealth, love exists

434
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 3: in the middle of nowhere. And love exists everywhere. And

435
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 3: we are love like we as humans, you know, these

436
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 3: we us, these spiritual beings, having this human experience. We

437
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 3: are love manifested in every single place that we show up.

438
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 3: We have the opportunity to be love for someone else,

439
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 3: and it doesn't have to be someone that you know intimately.

440
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 3: We can be love for a stranger. I'm gonna tell

441
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 3: a really quick story. I was in DC. I just

442
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 3: moved there. This was like twenty fourteen. We were on

443
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 3: Eighth Street, so it's twenty fourteen. Remember it wasn't as

444
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 3: gentrified as it is now. And there was this homeless

445
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 3: woman and me and my friend were walking to his car.

446
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 3: And we're walking to the car and the lady's like, hi,

447
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 3: you know, she just starts talking to me. So I'm

448
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 3: like hello. My friend's like, Jessica getting the car, and

449
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:51,959
Speaker 3: she's like, look at you, you Siberian princess. I was like, oh, Siberian, okay,

450
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 3: not new be and Siberian okay, cool, cool, take o cool,

451
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 3: it's fine, it's fine. So I'm just laughing. I was like,

452
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 3: oh my god, thank you so much. That's so sweet.

453
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 3: And she was like, get a hug, and so I

454
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 3: go and my friend's like, Jessica, get in the car,

455
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 3: and so I give her a hug. Because it's one

456
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 3: of those things I feel like, particularly in this country,

457
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 3: we discard people, right, we discard the homeless, and we

458
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 3: act like they're no longer human. So I gave her

459
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,719
Speaker 3: a hug. I think nothing of it, and I'm like, okay,

460
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 3: I have to go, you know, thank you so much.

461
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 3: Whatever I get in the car. She didn't ask me

462
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 3: for anything. She didn't ask me for money, nothing. So

463
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: we're in the car. My friend's kind of like, you're nuts,

464
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 3: and she knocks on the window and he's like, see

465
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 3: she knocks on the window and she's doing emotion. She's

466
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 3: telling me to put on my seatbelt. And I think

467
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 3: about that moment so much because of how I saw

468
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 3: her humanity, she saw my humanity, and we had this

469
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 3: little exchange, which means a lot to me because I

470
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: still remember it. This was, you know, eleven years ago,

471
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 3: and maybe it did something for her. She could have

472
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 3: been talking to people all week, all month and no

473
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 3: acknowledged her. She could have asked other people for hugs

474
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 3: and no one hugged her. So it cost me nothing

475
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 3: to give her that hug in that moment. Yeah, and

476
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 3: that could have just changed everything for her. And so

477
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 3: you know, that's such a small instance, but think like

478
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: we have the power, just through our kindness to show

479
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 3: love to every single person that we meet. In the world.

480
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 3: Imagine how that can change people's lives. Imagine how it

481
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 3: can change the world.

482
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, ah, And it's like I always think that

483
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 4: moments like that are really our tests, you know, those

484
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 4: are really God's tests, like do you have the heart

485
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 4: you say you have?

486
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 2: You know, are you going to recoil or are you

487
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 2: going to extend dignity to another person that has inherent

488
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: worth and dignity?

489
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think the biggest like one of the

490
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 3: big things I've also learned from travel, I don't believe

491
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 3: in hierarchy. I don't care who you are, what you are, degrees,

492
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 3: you know, how many followers, fame whatever, Right, We're all

493
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 3: just human and we should treat each other that way.

494
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 2: And it's all fleeting.

495
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:21,959
Speaker 3: It's all fleeting. And I believe in multiple lifetimes. Oh yeah,

496
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: and let me tell you you're with the right audience, okay,

497
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 3: because I'm like, you don't want to be in that

498
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 3: next life, like, ooh, what happened here?

499
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's like be careful. Karma is and you know,

500
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 2: it's so interesting. It's like, you know, karma in the

501
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: lens of multiple lifetimes, which would be that every lifetime

502
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 2: you're working on the unfinished business from the others. But

503
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: like karma every moment because karma a Sanskrit word, all

504
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: it actually means is action. Everyone kind of puts it

505
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: in this feeling of it being like bad, bad karma,

506
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 2: Karma's a bee, you know, all these things, but the

507
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 2: actual meaning it's just action. It's it's response. It's it

508
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: could be described as consequence, but it's really in every

509
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 2: moment there will be a response to how you behave

510
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: in what you do, and because of that response, that

511
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: then is going to be the merit that you get

512
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: to walk around with or the continued lesson you'll be exploring.

513
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really interesting because you know, we think about

514
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 3: the world is today and so many people putting evil

515
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 3: energy into the world and embodying that, and I'm like,

516
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 3: why are they still here? But then it's like you

517
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 3: have to remember there's another lifetime and they're going to

518
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 3: get theirs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's gosh.

519
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 2: It's so hard to settle in, you know, to some

520
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: of the understanding and higher consciousness that there is no

521
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 2: better good. It's like so hard sometimes to kind of

522
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: settle into the seat of that, especially being alive on

523
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,719
Speaker 2: earth and see all the things that we see, but

524
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: everything is experience, and then you will have the opportunity

525
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: to play out that experience in so many different ways

526
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: in this lifetime in the next. Well, we're still talking

527
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 2: about love. I'm curious, especially for all the travel girlies,

528
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: how do you date while traveling the world?

529
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 3: Girl?

530
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: It's so hella, so hard.

531
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 3: It's so hard. I think definitely in my twenties I was,

532
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 3: you know, more exploratory, if you will, and I'll be honest,

533
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 3: part of that like has gone down just because of visibility. Right,

534
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 3: So if I'm traveling and I'm working with a hotel, like,

535
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 3: I can't really bring someone back with me, you know

536
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 3: in a way that perhaps I would like to, And

537
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 3: so it's it's definitely hard. I think it's nice because

538
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 3: I travel, I have options. I've dated men in many

539
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 3: different countries, which has been just interesting because I think

540
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 3: for me, like race doesn't matter because again I come

541
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: from the standpoint of like, we're all just human. I mean,

542
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: I do have gender preferences, which would be male, but

543
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 3: besides that, I don't really care about race because I'm

544
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 3: just like, how do I connect with you as a human?

545
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: So that allows me to be a lot more open.

546
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 3: I think the challenge now is that guys look at

547
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 3: me and think I'm a flight risk. They're like, where

548
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 3: are you? Where were you? Where are you going? And

549
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 3: I think like beyond that, you know, people see the

550
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 3: so called bigness of my life and they question where

551
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: they can fit in, and I'm like, none of that

552
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 3: actually matters. I'm really simple, like let's read books on

553
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: the couch together, and you know, I want a very

554
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 3: I want something quite simple, and I think a lot

555
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 3: of people don't believe that. I remember I was on

556
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 3: a date with this guy I'd been saying for a

557
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: little bit, and he was like, what do you want

558
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 3: to be when you grow up? And I was like

559
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: a housewife and he was like what you know, because

560
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: a lot of people think I'm super ambitious and like

561
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: I want to do all of these things, and I'm like, no,

562
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 3: my success is like a product of me being single

563
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 3: quite frankly, which I mean, on the one hand, like

564
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have gone to every country in the world

565
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 3: right if I had a partner, I would imagine it

566
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: would have like stifled me in ways. But I'm like, okay,

567
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 3: I'm done with that. As my men bring me, my man.

568
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 3: So yeah, it can be challenging. I won't lie it's

569
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: And then also men think that I have boyfriends all

570
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 3: over the world, and I'm like, where are they? You know,

571
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 3: the phone is dry where they at? I don't believe that.

572
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: But we can say that for the podcast, but no,

573
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: we have but that even that is so, you know,

574
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: because I think we have to, especially as women that

575
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: have a certain rareness for whatever reasons. Right, I'm not

576
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: saying this in a hierarchical way, but you think different,

577
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 2: you move different, you know, life unfolds differently for you.

578
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: And so I find that women who have rare lives, right,

579
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 2: who are meant to kind of teach with their life

580
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 2: or all of their life is their life's work, which

581
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 2: I see in you, which I find for myself. You know,

582
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 2: love unfolds so much differently because we have a lot

583
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 2: of like research years and a lot of observation and

584
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: curiosity years that I like to call being in practice

585
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: with love, right, because you are meant and this is

586
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: how your life is unfolded to experience so much in

587
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 2: this limited time that we're alive. So that more than

588
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: likely means in every facet, right, not just every country.

589
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 2: But you're getting a real understanding of humanity in love

590
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 2: and the masculine of men in love, and not just

591
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: men from the standpoint of like got a man, but

592
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: like the male species, like really understanding the way they love,

593
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 2: the way they think, the way they move through about cultures.

594
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: So it's really fascinating. So it makes sense that you

595
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: might have years that you are in more practice and observation.

596
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 2: You know, what would you say, as a woman that

597
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,959
Speaker 2: has seen so much and done so much, what would

598
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 2: your type be?

599
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 3: Oh, that's interesting. I mean I don't I don't think

600
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 3: there's a specific type. I think there's characteristics. Yes, someone curious,

601
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 3: someone who's curious about the world, intellectually curious, someone with hobbies,

602
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 3: someone who's kind, respectful, thoughtful, loving, romantic, fun funny. Yeah,

603
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 3: I think you know, I think thoughtful is the thing

604
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 3: that I keep coming back to, Like, thoughtfulness is such

605
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 3: a skill. It doesn't actually require much, but it requires

606
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 3: intention And I want to be with someone who is

607
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 3: so intentional about loving me, you know, who can like

608
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 3: cut through the noise, ignore the noise and just like

609
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 3: focus on me and you, right, Like I really just

610
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 3: want someone to do the rest of this life with

611
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 3: and someone who you know comes in with a lightness, right, Like,

612
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 3: you can't come in with a heaviness and bring that

613
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 3: into my life. I'm like, I like, I feel like

614
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 3: I live a very light life and I want to

615
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 3: continue that with someone that I can love.

616
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: M Yeah, I love that. I love that. I think

617
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: like the older I get and the more I understand

618
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 2: about myself, my list is so much shorter, but it

619
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 2: is deeper.

620
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 3: It's deeper. Yeah. It used to be like yn't be

621
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 3: taller than six foot, he has to make this much,

622
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 3: right But yeah.

623
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 2: And now I'm like, does he live with honor? Does

624
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 2: he have integrity? Does he have values? Does has he

625
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 2: wrestled with God and made peace with God? Like that's

626
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 2: the number one thing on my list right now, Like

627
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: have you earned your relationship with God?

628
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 5: You know? Have you.

629
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: Gone at it with God to fall in love with

630
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 2: God again?

631
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 3: You know?

632
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 2: Because I think that's so much in my life and

633
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 2: I need someone that understands the world and the divine

634
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: with the same kind of reverence and the same depth

635
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 2: of connection, you know. And I'm like, I can make

636
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 2: almost anything else, Almost anything else could work for me

637
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 2: in some way. It'll make sense. Yeah, but like if

638
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: those things are missing, it's impossible. Yeah, it's impossible.

639
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

640
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: What does the word grief mean to you? And how

641
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 2: does it occupy space in your life? We are in

642
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: a time a really understanding grief and grieving. I think

643
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,479
Speaker 2: grief is like a big part of my life's work,

644
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 2: and it's a lot of the focus of my book

645
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 2: Living in Wisdom April twenty second. But just about that dance,

646
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 2: because all of life is dancing between grief and joy,

647
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 2: all of it every second.

648
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like my real relationship with grief started

649
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 3: only in twenty twenty two, which is interesting because my

650
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 3: father was murdered in two thousand and three, two days

651
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 3: after my nineteenth birthday. And I, you know, through therapy,

652
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 3: through reading, through so many things, through just like analysis

653
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 3: of self, what I realized is it was two days

654
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 3: after my nineteenth birthday. I never thought of myself as

655
00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 3: a child at that point, but now I realize I was,

656
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,439
Speaker 3: and there was a fundamental shift in my personality and

657
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 3: that's when I became sort of who I am today,

658
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 3: the person that's very resilient. Because I have two older sisters,

659
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 3: they were emotional wrecks like useless. My mother was in

660
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 3: Ugunda at the time because her mother had a stroke,

661
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 3: and I had to call her and tell her that

662
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 3: my father had been murdered. The man, the only man

663
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 3: she's ever dated and love had been murdered. And you know,

664
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 3: she ended up coming back. Seventeen days later her mother died,

665
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 3: but now she was in Detroit, right, Oh my god.

666
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 3: And I was the one doing everything. I was planning

667
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 3: the funeral, I was booking the flights, I was doing

668
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 3: all the logistics because something in me shut off the

669
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 3: emotional part of me and turned on like problem solving.

670
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 3: And I remained that way until twenty twenty two. March thirtieth,

671
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, my very dear friend A. J. Crimson

672
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 3: died and he drowned on vacation in Bonair, and that

673
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 3: cracked me open, Oh my god, in a way that

674
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: I never could have imagined. And so I'd never dealt

675
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:19,399
Speaker 3: with the grief of my father. And now I've been

676
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 3: dealing with the grief of my father for several years,

677
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 3: but like post you know, it was like over. It

678
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 3: was almost twenty years before I started dealing with it,

679
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 3: and now I'm sitting in it constantly and what I

680
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 3: find is that my relationship with grief is that I

681
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 3: want to help other people when they're grieving. I have

682
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 3: another friend whose father passed suddenly December twenty twenty two,

683
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 3: and I just I showed up for her in a

684
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 3: way that I wish somebody would have for me. And

685
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 3: so now I feel like I have the tools that

686
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 3: I can hand to other people when they're dealing with

687
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 3: their grief, you know, and help people acknowledge it and

688
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 3: help people sit with it. Right, we have to sit

689
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 3: with grief, and grief is a human emotion that we

690
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 3: will all feel, but we don't experience it in community,

691
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 3: and we need to. We need to give space to

692
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 3: each other, even if like a very good friend of mine, Wes,

693
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 3: I remember when I was dealing with AJ's death, he

694
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 3: would just sit on the phone with me and I

695
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 3: would just cry. And that meant so much. You know,

696
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 3: it's a simple act, but a lot of people we

697
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 3: run like I have a friend who lost to a

698
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 3: child like two days before her due date, and I

699
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,399
Speaker 3: remember running away because I was just like, oh, this

700
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 3: is too much. I don't know what to do, and

701
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 3: I did nothing. She needed friendship, and I ran away

702
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 3: because I was like, oh, this is too heavy. So

703
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 3: we have to get past ourselves to be able to

704
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 3: be in community with other people when they're in grief,

705
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 3: and so, you know, it feels heavy sometimes. But also

706
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 3: to be able to grieve means that you've loved, And

707
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 3: the harder you grieve, the more deeply you loved. And

708
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 3: I think that's such a beautiful thing.

709
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, deeply. Well, what are some ways that people can

710
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 2: grieve better or help another in grief?

711
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 3: I think that is a big struggle.

712
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 2: For so many people one, you know, just we never

713
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 2: know where anyone is at emotionally right and what they're suppressing.

714
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 2: And you know, sometimes I think for so many of us,

715
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 2: when hard experiences come, we can be surprised at quote

716
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: unquote who isn't there for us?

717
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 5: Right?

718
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 2: But everyone has process, you know, and everyone has their limits.

719
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 2: And so for anybody listening, what is a way to

720
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 2: really show up in grief for someone else?

721
00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think listening. Listening is so under Stop trying

722
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 3: to fix people's problems. Yeah, say that, just listen. If

723
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 3: you're in the same city, offer to go to their house,

724
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 3: offer to have them over to your house, because sometimes

725
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 3: people just need to get out of their space yea,

726
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 3: And I think checking in consistently even if they're not responding,

727
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 3: like reminding people that you're there. I've got a lot

728
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 3: of friends recently going through things who just shut down,

729
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 3: shut people out, and I'm just like, just know, I'm

730
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 3: always here, Like I don't know what everybody else is doing,

731
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 3: but I'm always here to listen. You can always come

732
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 3: to my house, you know, if you need me, I'm

733
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 3: going to always be able to get on a plane

734
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 3: and show up. But I think primarily it's listening. The

735
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 3: other thing that I recommend, Anderson Cooper has an incredible

736
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 3: podcast about grief that he made after his mother died. Incredible,

737
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 3: like for me, life changing because that idea of you're

738
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 3: not alone, like he just he captures it so well

739
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 3: through his interviews and the studies and the research he does.

740
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 3: But I highly recommend that podcast. I've shared it with

741
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 3: so many people. But yeah, listening to that podcast, but

742
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 3: listening to your friends and just creating safe spaces. I

743
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 3: feel like those words are overused, but it's so real.

744
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 3: Creating a space where someone knows they can pick up

745
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 3: the phone, they can come over, and they can just

746
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 3: go on and on and on and on and on

747
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 3: and you're not trying to fix it.

748
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's such like a sacredness to

749
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 5: us growing our capacity to bear witness, you know, like.

750
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 2: Life actually requires so little of us, Like the things

751
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 2: we think are solutions most likely or not, it's our

752
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 2: own stuff. But it takes like real presence and courage

753
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: and capacity to bear witness to another while doing nothing

754
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 2: else but holding the space and looking with intention and

755
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 2: being present.

756
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 3: And not being on your phone and not being like

757
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 3: not showing distraction but fully being present.

758
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, with your schedule and.

759
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:21,720
Speaker 3: With your.

760
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 2: You know, adventure and exploration. How do you make time

761
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: or space for grief in your life?

762
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 1: Now?

763
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 3: The thing is, grief comes and it will take the space,

764
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 3: you know, so and I honor it. If I wake

765
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 3: up in the middle of the night and I'm sobbing,

766
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 3: I honor that and I lean in and I might

767
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 3: play a sad song, you know, just to like help

768
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 3: it get out and move through me.

769
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 2: You know.

770
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,839
Speaker 3: I've I've been on a meditation journey. Today was day

771
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 3: fifty what Yes, day fifties, Thank you, and like creating

772
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,240
Speaker 3: that space in the morning to just you know, clear

773
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 3: my head acknowledge everything. It makes me create space throughout

774
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,439
Speaker 3: the day as well. And so I just think when

775
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 3: grief comes tapping me on my shoulder, I'm like, hello, okay,

776
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 3: let's sit together, let's have a hang, you know. And

777
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 3: I think because of that, it moves in and out.

778
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 3: It's a journey. It's like it's never going to be over.

779
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 3: But I also think, you know, in the beginning, typically

780
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 3: it's quite debilitating. And I, you know, I was debilitated,

781
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 3: and you know that my book was coming out to

782
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 3: three months after that, and I struggled. I really really

783
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 3: struggled that whole time. But I also wreck like I

784
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 3: realized I was pretty useless. So I remember I had

785
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 3: to record my audio book at that time, and I

786
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 3: was in the depths of grieving. I remember one time

787
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 3: in the studio I told them and I was like,

788
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, and I'm just like I need a moment,

789
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 3: and I just laid on the floor in the booth

790
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 3: and I was just like, I can't push through. That

791
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 3: was the thing. We're always like, push through, push that.

792
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 3: I'm like, I can't. I don't want to, you know,

793
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 3: So I cancel things quite often because at the end

794
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 3: of the day, I am primary, right me. Yes, my

795
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 3: wellness is primary. It's not an interview, it's not a

796
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 3: job opportunity, it is nothing else. It is me. It

797
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 3: is the people that I love that come first and foremost.

798
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 3: So I'm always happy to cancel because I'm primary. I'm

799
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 3: not a medical doctor. There are no emergencies here. Everything

800
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 3: can happen at another time, and if it's supposed to,

801
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 3: it will, and if it's not, that's fine too. But

802
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 3: that's kind of how I move now.

803
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, let they give permission to everyone, to

804
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 2: everyone who needs it.

805
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, greef is.

806
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 2: It's a lifelong exploration, you know, it really is. This

807
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: past January, I've realized it was the twenty first anniversary

808
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 2: of one of my best friends being murdered. And I

809
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 2: found my I mean, I cry no matter what there

810
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I probably cried once a week about this, easily,

811
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: And it's been twenty one years, like easily once a week,

812
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 2: if not more, but definitely around that time of his

813
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 2: death anniversary, his birthday. And this year was the first

814
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 2: time that I found myself like I cried so hard

815
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 2: that it made me laugh, Like I cried so hard

816
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,359
Speaker 2: that it made me laugh and call out to him

817
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 2: and be like, your ass got me crying this hard

818
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 2: twenty one years later, and then I just start laughing

819
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 2: at kind of the beauty of that of something that

820
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: could mean so much no matter how brief it was.

821
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 2: He's been gone much longer than I knew him. But

822
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: how special to have a bond that strong even in death, right,

823
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 2: Like to feel that connection so strong and tethered to

824
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 2: you and your emotion and you're in two different planes,

825
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 2: You're in two you're occupying two different spaces. It's quite beautiful,

826
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: it really is. It's quite quite powerful.

827
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 3: And I believe those bonds. I'm like, I know I'll

828
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 3: see you again. Yeah, And I know we'll be in

829
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 3: the same space again. It will look different, but I'm like,

830
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 3: I know we'll be in the same space at the

831
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 3: same time again.

832
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. M that's so thank you, thank you, thank you,

833
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:50,959
Speaker 2: thank you. Yeah, we needed that, and thank you for

834
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 2: the generosity and sharing it. I want to take us

835
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: one more place while I have you before you get

836
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:04,399
Speaker 2: on another plane. So one of the things that I

837
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 2: love so much about witnessing you online and in your

838
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: work is just your beauty, like your vibrancy, your fashion,

839
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 2: your food, your everything feels in your life, whether it's

840
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: on your body or in your home.

841
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 3: Just so alive, so alive.

842
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 2: How has your style and really sense of style expanded

843
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 2: through your travels and how do you choose? How do

844
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 2: you pick the things that will adorn you and adorn

845
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 2: your spaces?

846
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 3: I love that so much, Thank you. So I grew

847
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 3: up in a home with parents that were focused on

848
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 3: aesthetics solely. Yeah, so like my mom and dad dressed down,

849
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 3: you know, like I used to remember. They would always

850
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,439
Speaker 3: go to parties or they would host parties at our home,

851
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,759
Speaker 3: and they were always dressed like I wear some of

852
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 3: my mom's old dresses sometimes because they're just so beautiful

853
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 3: and timeless. And you know, when we were little, she

854
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 3: used to dress us up, you know, the pigtails, the

855
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 3: lacey dresses and all of it. You know those sucks, yeah,

856
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 3: with the full floor.

857
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 2: Really, we all have them.

858
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,720
Speaker 3: And so I've always sort of had an eye to fashion.

859
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 3: So when I graduated high school, I won class trendy.

860
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 3: That was my superlative. Oh my god. And so I've

861
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 3: always just been aware of how I looked. You know,

862
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 3: I'm not somewhere someone who wears sweatpants and things like that,

863
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 3: because I'm just like, well, putting on a dress takes

864
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 3: actually less effort than putting on a hoodie in sweatpants,

865
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 3: and I feel comfortable. And so my sister is like,

866
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 3: I'm consistently overdressed, and I'm like that's okay, Like I

867
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 3: feel comfortable. You know, I don't feel like I'm doing

868
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 3: too much. I think a lot of people look at

869
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 3: me and think I put way more effort into what

870
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,240
Speaker 3: I look like than I actually do. I rarely wear makeup,

871
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 3: and part of that is like just you know, growing

872
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 3: up as a dark skinned person in America is tough, right.

873
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:18,240
Speaker 3: Growing up African in America was no easy feat. And

874
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 3: for a long time, I felt bad about the way

875
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 3: I looked. I felt bad about my skin tone, all

876
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 3: of the things. And in my mid twenties, you know,

877
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 3: i'd suffered with depression for a very long time and

878
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 3: you know, go in and out. But I just was like,

879
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 3: this is what I look like, and that's it. So

880
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 3: I can either like it or not like it, but like,

881
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 3: you might as well just get with it because you're

882
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 3: not there's nothing to do that you can't change it, right,

883
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 3: Like I didn't you know, I was in my twenties,

884
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 3: so I wasn't like I'm gonna get plastic surgery. There

885
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 3: was none of that. I wasn't bleaching my skin. I

886
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 3: was just like, this is what it is. This is

887
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 3: how we're going to roll with it.

888
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 2: You know.

889
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 3: Like I shaved my head in eight because I was

890
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 3: moving to Japan and I didn't know how to do

891
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 3: my own hair, and I was like, well, this is

892
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 3: what we gotta do, and so I just shaved my

893
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 3: head and it stuck. And like I've got braids last year,

894
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 3: and I had them for like four months, and I

895
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 3: shaved them off because I was like, I don't feel

896
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 3: like myself anymore. And so I've just gotten to a

897
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 3: point where I'm just really happy with me. And then

898
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 3: besides that, I'm obsessed with color, like it I did

899
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 3: a Marie Condo's method and I got rid of like

900
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 3: eighty percent of the black things that I own. So

901
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 3: I have almost zero black clothing. Everything I have is

902
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 3: brightly colored. Like I can't even help it. I don't

903
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 3: even think about it. It's just it's who I am.

904
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 3: And so when it comes to my spaces, I recently

905
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 3: bought a place in Senegal, and I want to decorate,

906
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 3: but like I can't. I have to go physically into

907
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,879
Speaker 3: the space to decide the color and things like that,

908
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 3: because for me, it's like, what's the energy here and

909
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 3: what does it feel like? And then I want to

910
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,919
Speaker 3: create a space that embodies that. So one thing I love,

911
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 3: whether it was like my place in West Hollywood or Detroit,

912
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 3: people come in and they're like, oh, it feels so comfortable,

913
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 3: it feels so homey, but it also feels like me.

914
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 3: So I think how my travel has sort of enhanced

915
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 3: that is, like I get clothes made when I'm abroad.

916
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 3: I get a lot of jewelry when I travel, But

917
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 3: I see myself everywhere, even if I'm in India or

918
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 3: I'm in Iran, Like I can see myself in the

919
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 3: clothing in the wardrobe, and I can sort of like

920
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 3: blend in and that I just see myself everywhere in

921
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,399
Speaker 3: the world and feel like I can be a part

922
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 3: of everywhere and everything can be a part of me.

923
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 3: If that makes sense. That is so beautiful.

924
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes. At the end of every episode, I

925
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 2: like to invite our guests to share a little soul work,

926
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 2: so that is something to help everyone integrate what they've heard,

927
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 2: what they've experienced in this conversation, and that they can

928
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 2: take with them and apply. And sometimes that looks like

929
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 2: a journal prompt or an activity, a thought, an exercise,

930
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 2: But what would be some soul work? And maybe you

931
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 2: know some of the things that are so resonant in

932
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 2: what you have beautifully been sharing in this episode, it's

933
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 2: the courage to live in freedom, right, And it's like

934
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 2: the courage to really stand in the fact that you

935
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 2: don't have to have limitations in any way, you know,

936
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 2: and you're painting and you're weaving this tapestry of your life.

937
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 2: How can people connect to that kind of innate essence

938
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 2: of you?

939
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to give two things. First, I just

940
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:50,720
Speaker 3: want people to really interrogate their fear. Interrogate your fear.

941
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 3: So whether it's a fear of flying, whether it's a

942
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 3: fear of quitting the job, no matter what it is, like,

943
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 3: write it down. What is this fear that I have interrogated?

944
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 3: Why is it there? What are you afraid of? Like,

945
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,279
Speaker 3: really ask you figure it out? What are you afraid of? Okay,

946
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 3: I'm afraid to go to Colombia? Why are you afraid

947
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 3: to go to Columbia and do that exercise and just

948
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 3: go deeper, deeper, deeper, because I think what you then

949
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 3: find out is you can't answer it. So if you

950
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 3: can't answer why you have the fear, why is it there?

951
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:29,240
Speaker 3: It's just they're blocking you. So I would say that's first. Second,

952
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 3: the Four Agreements don Miguel Ruye's, you know, always do

953
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 3: your best, be impeccable with your word, don't make assumptions,

954
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 3: don't take anything personally. It's so hard to live by that,

955
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 3: but I'm constantly running that in my head, like whether

956
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 3: it's dating, dealing with people, dealing with brands, dealing with

957
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 3: work stuff, It's like, am I making an assumption?

958
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 5: Yeah?

959
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 3: Okay, can I ask a question instead of trying to

960
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 3: create the conclusion? You know? I think the Four Agreements,

961
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 3: it's a quick read, but it's something that we should

962
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 3: all be reading once a quarter, is something that we

963
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 3: should reference throughout the rest of our life because I

964
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 3: feel like if we can really get those principles down,

965
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 3: like we can live whole, beautiful, free lives.

966
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 2: M thank you, thank you. I've been looking on your

967
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 2: stories lately and I see you getting a lot of

968
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 2: recipes in other countries. What is the next book that

969
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 2: we can expect.

970
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the next book is called Catch Me in

971
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 3: the Kitchen. It's a global cookbook. Yeah. So it's going

972
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 3: to be one recipe from every country in the world,

973
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 3: one hundred and ninety five recipes.

974
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 5: Wow.

975
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a massive undertaking. But it's the first time

976
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,919
Speaker 3: a major publisher is doing anything like this. So it's

977
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 3: with National Geographic again and it's going to be a

978
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 3: culinary bible. Yeah.

979
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 2: How amazing.

980
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 3: So excited.

981
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 2: Congratulations and thank you for doing it.

982
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 3: Thank you.

983
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 2: Wow.

984
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. So fall twenty twenty six. We're a long way out,

985
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 3: but it's gonna come quicker than we realize. Yeah, but

986
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 3: it's been it's been such a beautiful journey. And more

987
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 3: than anything, I'm excited to like disrupt the conversation in

988
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,959
Speaker 3: the food world because in terms of hierarchy, everyone thinks

989
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,919
Speaker 3: of like European cuisine and I'm like, no, no, no,

990
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 3: the only reason you think that is because you haven't

991
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 3: actually explored the world. So let's have that conversation. So

992
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 3: I'm excited to have those conversations in the food world

993
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 3: and sort of shakes it.

994
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 2: Up obsess Yes, thank you, Yes, everyone that wants to

995
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 2: connect more with Jessica and her just incredible, rare, beautiful life.

996
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 2: Scroll down into the show notes and you can get

997
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 2: the book. Check her out on Instagram, website. All of

998
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 2: the Things is waiting for you a little treasure shove.

999
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me on this show.

1000
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 2: Having it has been amazing, grateful, Thank you, thank you.

1001
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 2: We'll be back next now, Mistayday. The content presented on

1002
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 2: Deeply Well serves solely for educational and informational purposes. It

1003
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 2: should not be considered a replacement for personalized medical or

1004
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 2: mental health guidance, and does not constitute a provider patient relationship.

1005
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 2: As always, it is advisable to consult with your healthcare

1006
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 2: provider or health team for any specific concerns or questions

1007
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,439
Speaker 2: that you may have. Connect with me on social at

1008
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 2: Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or you can go

1009
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 2: to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're

1010
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 2: listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget, Please rate, review,

1011
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 2: and subscribe and send this episode to a friend. Deeply

1012
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 2: Well is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Network.

1013
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:57,440
Speaker 2: It's produced by Jacques Thomas Samantha Timmins and Me, Debbie Brown,

1014
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 2: The Beautiful Soundbath You Heard. That's by Jarrelyn Glass from

1015
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 2: Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1016
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