WEBVTT - Accelerating Excellence With Trust

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and

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<v Speaker 1>Tim Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio. I got to say, staying

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<v Speaker 1>update on what's going on in the world, it can

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<v Speaker 1>be pretty difficult right now, and the narrative can change

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<v Speaker 1>pretty quickly. I mean, it's an environment where a soft

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<v Speaker 1>landing has quickly dissolved into well maybe not or maybe

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<v Speaker 1>even a US recession or as we just heard with

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<v Speaker 1>David Weston, who talked with former US Treasury and Wall

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<v Speaker 1>Street Week contributor Larry Summers. He talked about the energizer

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<v Speaker 1>bunny for the US economy. It's how he described it,

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<v Speaker 1>especially after that strong non forim payrolls print bottom line.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot coming at US companies, global companies and their leaders.

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<v Speaker 1>We have a great guest to kind of give us

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<v Speaker 1>some perspective and what can help leaders in this type

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<v Speaker 1>of environment. We talked with her about three years ago

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<v Speaker 1>about her then latest book Oncommon Service, joining us once

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<v Speaker 1>again as Francis Fry, Professor of Technology and Operations Management

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<v Speaker 1>at Harvard Business School. Her new book out, Move Fast

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<v Speaker 1>and Fix Things. The Trusted Leader's Guide to Solve the

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<v Speaker 1>Hard Problems. She co authored with Anne Morris. The two

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<v Speaker 1>also co host the ted podcast Fixable. She's joining us

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<v Speaker 1>on Zoom from Boston, Massachusetts. Francis so nice to have

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<v Speaker 1>you back here on Bloomberg, and we do like to

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<v Speaker 1>remind our viewers and listeners. You also worked at Uber

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<v Speaker 1>back in twenty seventeen, your senior VP for Leadership and Strategy,

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<v Speaker 1>and worked on improving the company's culture by really working

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<v Speaker 1>with them when it comes to teamwork. I want to

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<v Speaker 1>start big broad if I may, and that is the world,

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<v Speaker 1>because I feel like the world is this great global

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<v Speaker 1>classroom right now. What fascinates you in terms of whether

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<v Speaker 1>it's Washington, whether it's corporate America, global companies when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to thinking about how things are getting done or

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<v Speaker 1>not getting done.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh thanks, Carolyn, Jess, I really appreciate being here. So

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<v Speaker 2>what fascinates me is that how much we're in our

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<v Speaker 2>own way. And I actually find that incredibly optimistic because

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<v Speaker 2>we can get out of our own way. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>not that externalities are forcing us to behave one way,

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<v Speaker 2>but that we're either recklessly moving too fast or out

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<v Speaker 2>of fear we're staying still for too long, and so

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<v Speaker 2>our finding the balance of how to move fast and

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<v Speaker 2>fix things. To me, is a really optimistic view of

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<v Speaker 2>the world. Why do you.

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<v Speaker 3>Think the trade off between speed and excellence is false?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think that when when Mark Zuckerberg said move

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<v Speaker 2>fast and break things, he convinced people, perhaps unknowingly, that

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<v Speaker 2>you could either move fast and break things or you

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<v Speaker 2>could go slow and take care of things. So he

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<v Speaker 2>presented that you can either take care of people or

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<v Speaker 2>go fast. But we have found that you can actually

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<v Speaker 2>go even faster in accelerating excellence if you build trust

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<v Speaker 2>along the way.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you say trust, is it all kinds of

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<v Speaker 1>trust with your employees, your workforce, with your customers, your suppliers.

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<v Speaker 1>It's interesting. I talked with the founder and see of Chabani,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know how he thinks of sustainable business. I know,

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<v Speaker 1>I know, I'm with you. When he thinks about sustainable business,

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<v Speaker 1>it's for his employees, it's for his customer, a surrounding community.

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<v Speaker 1>So come on in on this. When you think about

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<v Speaker 1>when you talk about trust, what it means.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I do think that it's important to think

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<v Speaker 2>about it for all of those stakeholders. And so what

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<v Speaker 2>we find is that whatever problem you're facing, and we

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<v Speaker 2>encourage people to go after their hardest problem. So whatever

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<v Speaker 2>the hardest thing you have to do right now, you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to find that trust is broken down with at

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<v Speaker 2>least one of those stakeholders. And if you build that

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<v Speaker 2>trust first and then you go fast on top of it,

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<v Speaker 2>h you can accelerate excellence. The mistake we find people

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<v Speaker 2>make is that they go fast before building the trust,

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<v Speaker 2>and then very bad things can happen.

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<v Speaker 3>Walk us through some of the five essential steps that

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<v Speaker 3>you talk about as far as moving fast and fixing things.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, and we organize it by day of the week

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<v Speaker 2>with only a half joke that you can solve any

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<v Speaker 2>hard problem in a week. But Monday is to solve

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<v Speaker 2>the real problem, which is most problems present as one thing,

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<v Speaker 2>but then the root cause is somewhere else. So make

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<v Speaker 2>sure that you're going not addressing the symptom, but actually

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<v Speaker 2>getting all the way down to the cause. Tuesday it's

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<v Speaker 2>to build a good enough plan by solving for trust

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<v Speaker 2>at the at the core of it. Wednesday we call

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<v Speaker 2>it make new Friends Day, and that is whatever your

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<v Speaker 2>plan is, you've probably talked to too many people who

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<v Speaker 2>are just like you. So on Wednesday we encourage you

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<v Speaker 2>to very deliberately make new friends. And the new friends

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<v Speaker 2>of the type that think differently, see differently, have a

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<v Speaker 2>different set of skills. So be inclusive of loads of

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<v Speaker 2>more diverse perspectives. Your plan will become an even better plan.

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<v Speaker 2>Is it by Thursday?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Go ahead?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, forgive me?

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<v Speaker 3>No? Keep?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, no, finish up?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay? All right? So Thursday it is a chance to

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<v Speaker 2>communicate it. And so we have very specific ideas of

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<v Speaker 2>how to communicate well, which the short version is, understand

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<v Speaker 2>something so deeply that you can describe it simply, and

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<v Speaker 2>simply deeply communication is the is the key. And then Friday,

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<v Speaker 2>go as fast as you can. But please, Friday is

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<v Speaker 2>day five, It's not days one through four.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, why did you write this book now or

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<v Speaker 1>why did you want to put it out now? Was

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<v Speaker 1>there something that you saw kind of in real life?

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<v Speaker 1>You do case studies at Harvard. I'm just curious what

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<v Speaker 1>it was.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we saw too much what we call responsible stewardship.

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<v Speaker 2>We saw too many people being paralyzed in the presence

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<v Speaker 2>of real problems. There was paralysis and when we investigated

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<v Speaker 2>why are people not moving, it was because they were

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<v Speaker 2>afraid of the reckless disruption of the moving fast and

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<v Speaker 2>breaking things. So we did this to provide the roadmap,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a playbook. I mean, it tells you exactly

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<v Speaker 2>how to do it. The roadmap so to get out

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<v Speaker 2>of the paralysis to solve our world's most urgent challenges.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, I wonder you know, in a week where we've

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<v Speaker 1>been obsessed with the fraud trial of Samuel bankmin Freed

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<v Speaker 1>and FTX, there's somebody who moved fast, right, and certainly

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<v Speaker 1>something's got broken, very reckless, right. So I mean when

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<v Speaker 1>you look at that story, that case, that reality, and

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<v Speaker 1>of course only charges will see where this trial ends up.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, how do you look at it or

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<v Speaker 1>how is it a teaching moment?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, for me, it's that it looked like sam didn't

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<v Speaker 2>really believe he had to build trust with multiple constituents, right,

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<v Speaker 2>that he he did what he wanted to do and

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<v Speaker 2>it didn't matter. It didn't matter to him because he

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<v Speaker 2>was being lavished so much monetarily. So to me like

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<v Speaker 2>solving the real problem. Probably the real problem was that

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<v Speaker 2>he was building something that maybe didn't make sense and

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<v Speaker 2>then solving for trust at the core of that. So

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if it was fraud or not, but

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<v Speaker 2>I would It looks to me like he moved very

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<v Speaker 2>fast in the absence of trust, and that's a very

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<v Speaker 2>classic problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Speaking of trust, Frances, it was so quick for the

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<v Speaker 1>world media investors, big name investors, smart people to quickly

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<v Speaker 1>mark him, brand him, you know, the JP Morgan of crypto,

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<v Speaker 1>and believe that he was the go to voice on

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<v Speaker 1>everything in any crypto. You know, how do you think

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<v Speaker 1>about that as well? I mean, you know, for me once,

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<v Speaker 1>shame on you for me twice, like you know, they're always.

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<v Speaker 2>Probably more than twice. Yeah, yeah, what is that about?

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<v Speaker 2>You know? My positives been on It is that we

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<v Speaker 2>are all like it taps into our optimism that there

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<v Speaker 2>is a like, dramatically better way and that it will

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<v Speaker 2>be individuals that bring us there. The pessimistic side of

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<v Speaker 2>me thinks that we're just looking to get in before

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<v Speaker 2>everyone else catches on. So we want early money to

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<v Speaker 2>be benefited, regardless of how it turns out. But it

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<v Speaker 2>is we are in quite a cycle of believing things

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<v Speaker 2>very early without applying the rigor that we show. We

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<v Speaker 2>are a very rigorous people, but we are willing to

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<v Speaker 2>suspend that in an increasing frequency.

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<v Speaker 3>We have about a minute left in this segment. But

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<v Speaker 3>what are some examples of leaders who use speed to

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<v Speaker 3>their advantage to solve their problems? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I would say Microsoft is my favorite current example.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is an organization that is so big it

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<v Speaker 2>should be able to move fast and yeah, and yet

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<v Speaker 2>look how it has catapulted everyone in the field of AI.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's just its latest marvel that it's been able

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<v Speaker 2>to do. And they're getting there. They build trust with

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<v Speaker 2>all of their stakeholder if they communicate beautifully, they make

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<v Speaker 2>loads of new friends. So I would say that they

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<v Speaker 2>are a role model of doing it.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, we're continuing our conversation with friends. Is Fry, professor

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<v Speaker 3>of Technology and Operations Management at Harvard Business School, on

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<v Speaker 3>her book Move Fast and Fix Things, The Trusted Leader's

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<v Speaker 3>Guide to Solving Hard Problems that she co authored with

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<v Speaker 3>Anne Morris. The two also co host a tied podcast

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<v Speaker 3>called Fixable. So she's still joining us on zoom from Boston, Massachusetts.

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<v Speaker 3>You were just speaking with us and talking with us

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<v Speaker 3>about the five essential steps to moving fast and fixing

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<v Speaker 3>things for corporate leaders. I'm curious about how challenging is

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<v Speaker 3>it for executives to successfully create a culture where everyone

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<v Speaker 3>can thrive and try to prevent top talent from leaving.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it's within our capacity. I find that we're

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<v Speaker 2>not all born with knowing how to do it, and

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<v Speaker 2>so we try to provide secret memos in the book

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<v Speaker 2>of here's how to do it. But the prescription we

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<v Speaker 2>would give for how to do it is that you

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<v Speaker 2>have to create an environment where, regardless of any difference

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<v Speaker 2>that any of us represents, our job is to make

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<v Speaker 2>one another feel safe and welcome. And then, because of

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<v Speaker 2>our unique skills, and I think this is really important,

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<v Speaker 2>because of our uniqueness, we should celebrate and champion one another.

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<v Speaker 2>When we do that, Oh, your top talent will stay.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the things that got my attention because I'm

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<v Speaker 1>always thinking about this is run better meetings. You have

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<v Speaker 1>a little notation in your book about it, and I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like the art of running a good meeting. I

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<v Speaker 1>will tell you here, we've had conference rooms that don't

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<v Speaker 1>have chairs in them at times because to make it

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<v Speaker 1>go quickly, or are reducing like not everybody needs to

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<v Speaker 1>be here, it's only some you know. So what's your

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<v Speaker 1>thinking on that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, meeting?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like where we were having tons of zoom meetings.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So first I would say that every meeting has

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<v Speaker 2>to be have an agenda. If it doesn't have an agenda,

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<v Speaker 2>you should take that as an invitation not to attend.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the first thing. The second thing is that whatever

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<v Speaker 2>the objectives are of the meeting, don't put time stamps

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<v Speaker 2>next to them. Don't say, oh, this and we'll do

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<v Speaker 2>for the first third, then the next third and the next third,

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<v Speaker 2>because we will fill the allotted time. So let us

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<v Speaker 2>be done when we're done, like, let us be achievement oriented.

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<v Speaker 2>The third thing is I do think it's useful to

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<v Speaker 2>not invite as many people, but you don't want people

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<v Speaker 2>to feel left out. So I encourage people to tape

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<v Speaker 2>meetings and encourage people to watch it on two x

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<v Speaker 2>the speed because that's just about the right speed to

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<v Speaker 2>do it. That automatically saves half of your time in meetings.

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<v Speaker 2>And indeed, I would encourage you to go for a

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<v Speaker 2>walk while you're listening to the meeting. It's a very

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<v Speaker 2>intimate way to consume it. And then my last tip

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<v Speaker 2>is if we're not careful, what will happen in a

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<v Speaker 2>meeting is you'll say something, then I'll say something similar,

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<v Speaker 2>and someone else says something similar and similar, and then

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<v Speaker 2>we all just want to like it. We're just done. Instead,

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<v Speaker 2>after you say something, the facilitator should say the following phrase.

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<v Speaker 2>Can someone articulate an alternate point of view? I've now

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<v Speaker 2>just sent the message, no more redundancy. Now somebody else

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<v Speaker 2>is going to say something different, and then one more

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<v Speaker 2>point of difference. So if we diverge early, we'll converge

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<v Speaker 2>higher and faster. The problem is, most meetings converge early

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<v Speaker 2>have loads of redundancy, and we don't actually end up

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<v Speaker 2>accomplishing very much.

0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:14.520
<v Speaker 1>I love that idea of diverging.

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<v Speaker 3>How has working from home because of the pandemic ended

0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.200
<v Speaker 3>up affecting leader's ability to try to solve some of

0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.200
<v Speaker 3>these problems when you have a little bit of a

0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:26.959
<v Speaker 3>barrier if not everybody is in the office with you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So I find that having the ability to be

0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.400
<v Speaker 2>remote like we are right now, or to be in

0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:38.480
<v Speaker 2>person is better than hiving to either only be remote

0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.520
<v Speaker 2>or only be in person. So I think hybrid dominates

0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.200
<v Speaker 2>the other two and that we should figure out when

0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.480
<v Speaker 2>to use each one. But we want to optimize how

0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.560
<v Speaker 2>we use each one. So people tell me that in

0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Zoom meetings they worry that it doesn't have as much caricatures,

0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:57.840
<v Speaker 2>have as much character as in person. I'm like, but

0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.800
<v Speaker 2>in Zoom we have chat, we can courage one another,

0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.560
<v Speaker 2>we can share thoughts, we can use those beautiful emojis

0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.280
<v Speaker 2>that float around in between. So there's many more degrees

0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.880
<v Speaker 2>of dimensionality in Zoom that we just don't often take

0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.719
<v Speaker 2>advantage of. So I encourage people to just as much

0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:14.800
<v Speaker 2>as you think about how to meet in person, think

0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.560
<v Speaker 2>about how to meet remotely, and I think some beautiful

0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:19.320
<v Speaker 2>things will happen.

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<v Speaker 1>You work with a lot of companies, you write case studies.

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<v Speaker 1>Are there companies you look at and you're like, God,

0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.559
<v Speaker 1>I just would like a week with them?

0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, So Chabani, who you have on the previous one,

0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:35.439
<v Speaker 2>like longtime fan, longtime fan of them. I'm also I

0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.120
<v Speaker 2>like hypergrowth, and so I think the company's stripe has

0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:44.040
<v Speaker 2>done remarkable things in a very short period of time

0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.840
<v Speaker 2>and maintained the dignity of its workforce along the way.

0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:52.360
<v Speaker 2>So I like them as well. And then for outside

0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:57.360
<v Speaker 2>of the US, there is a company in Peru called

0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.880
<v Speaker 2>a Noova Schools. It's the best educated education model I

0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:06.160
<v Speaker 2>have ever seen anywhere in the world, and they designed

0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:10.040
<v Speaker 2>a system where people in the emerging middle class they

0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:14.520
<v Speaker 2>educate them in dramatically awesome ways for a very low fee,

0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.679
<v Speaker 2>and it's for profit. So they've learned how to do

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.160
<v Speaker 2>this in a way that can be scalable to other countries.

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.200
<v Speaker 2>So that's where I go for inspiration.

0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.120
<v Speaker 3>Love that, what does inclusiveness mean to you?

0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Setting the conditions for everyone to thrive despite any differences

0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.840
<v Speaker 2>that they have, and realizing that we really like people

0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.040
<v Speaker 2>who are really like us, and so we should try

0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:44.680
<v Speaker 2>to learn the behavior of how to set the conditions

0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:48.800
<v Speaker 2>for people who are not like us to be to

0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:49.880
<v Speaker 2>also thrive.

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I love in your book, You're right, make it

0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:58.360
<v Speaker 1>physically and emotionally safe to be different, and that despite

0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 1>all the conversations and commitments and goals maybe put out

0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.160
<v Speaker 1>by companies, there's one thing to say it, and then

0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 1>there's one thing to really make an environment where if

0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:10.880
<v Speaker 1>your view and even the viewpoint, like I love what

0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.920
<v Speaker 1>you said about meetings right to present a different viewpoint, I.

0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Just let's Yeah, if we just emphasize difference, we will

0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:24.840
<v Speaker 2>achieve so much more than our instinct to emphasize sameness.

0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.440
<v Speaker 1>Hey, listen in this final thirty second speaking of difference,

0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.600
<v Speaker 1>the division in politics, is there a fix? There?

0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.480
<v Speaker 2>There is, but it would require we only know how

0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.000
<v Speaker 2>to help people who want to change. And so if

0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.560
<v Speaker 2>the requirement is that they want to improve, if they

0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:44.880
<v Speaker 2>wanted to improve, I actually think we could fix it

0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.280
<v Speaker 2>in a week. But what they would have to want

0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:49.560
<v Speaker 2>to improve and they haven't convinced me of that?

0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, great way to end in such a timely conversation.

0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.360
<v Speaker 1>I love it, Francis, you always make it real and relevant.

0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.080
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, have a great weekend and look

0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.200
<v Speaker 1>forward to checking with you once again. Francis Fryes. She's

0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.720
<v Speaker 1>professor of Technology and Operations Management at Harvard Business School.

0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:08.640
<v Speaker 1>Her new book out, as just mentioned, co authored with

0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.400
<v Speaker 1>Anne Maurice, Move Fast and Fixed Things, The Trusted Leader's

0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Guide to Solving hard problems. Joining us on zoom from Boston, Massachusetts.

0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.240
<v Speaker 1>And as we mentioned, they also do a podcast called Fixable.

0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:24.880
<v Speaker 1>It's a ted podcast and so just interesting right common sense.

0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:26.280
<v Speaker 1>Love it. This is Bloomberg