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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and

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Speaker 1: husbands or do they have in individualism the patriarchy zef

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Speaker 1: invest start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello and

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Speaker 1: welcome to the bec Del Cast. My name is Jamie

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Speaker 1: Loftus and my name is Caitlin Darante, and this is

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Speaker 1: our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. Is

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Speaker 1: that right? Boy? Is it? Wow? I said boy? Crap? Colloquialisms,

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Speaker 1: Uh don't count? Did they? I say? Man, dude and

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Speaker 1: boys so much and I feel like I need to

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Speaker 1: erase those from my vocabulary. So so instead, girl does it?

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Speaker 1: That's what I meant is do gender neutral? I use

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Speaker 1: it in in a gender neutral way, but I know

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who feel that it's masculine and

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Speaker 1: then don't like to be called to do. Well, wait,

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Speaker 1: what's our podcast again? So we talked about the representation

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Speaker 1: and portrayal of women in movies. We use the Bechtel

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Speaker 1: test is just a jumping off point to initiate a

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Speaker 1: larger conversation about representation. Oh yeah, If you're not familiar

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Speaker 1: with what the Bechdel test is, It is a media

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Speaker 1: test that you apply usually to movies, but really anything

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Speaker 1: with the narrative. It was first originated in a book

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Speaker 1: by Alison bechdel Um, and I wanted to briefly mention

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Speaker 1: that because a couple of fans of ours, Viola and Ti,

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Speaker 1: mentioned that the test was created by Queer dot Com

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Speaker 1: Alison bechdel Um, and then it was actually in the

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Speaker 1: comic strip it's um to lesbians talking about how little

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Speaker 1: representation there is of lesbians in movies. So I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to throw that out there that we recognize that,

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Speaker 1: and because what's happened with the test, it's kind of

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Speaker 1: been like appropriated by straight people. Yeah, So I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to call attention to that that it was specifically

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Speaker 1: the characters in the comic strip are talking about how

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Speaker 1: they see so little representation of QUERNI ship. Yeah. For

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Speaker 1: the purposes of our discussion, our version of the Bechdel

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Speaker 1: test requires that in a piece of media, two women

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Speaker 1: with names speak about something other than a man for

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Speaker 1: more than two lines of dialogue. You think it would

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Speaker 1: be easy, very little bar But if you've heard any

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Speaker 1: of our episodes before, you'll know that it is challenging

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Angel, some movies cheat what do you mean?

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Speaker 1: What was the one? And she's all that where they're like,

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Speaker 1: I think you should kill yourself and then she's like,

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Speaker 1: that's mean and that passes the Backtel test. But we

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Speaker 1: will do a better job than that. So let's demo it, Jamie. Okay, Hi, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: Hey Jamie, what's up? Um? Nothing, just saying you out

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Speaker 1: with my gals talking about movies. Oh you know what

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Speaker 1: this movie made me? You have a new appreciation for

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Speaker 1: what's that flesh colored shorts? Yeah, there are some male

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Speaker 1: athletes who look nude. Well now we're yeah, I broke it.

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Speaker 1: We made we made two lives. But oh boy, those

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Speaker 1: flesh colored I forgot about the flesh tone shorts and

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Speaker 1: they really they really came on strong. And this one

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Speaker 1: we loved it certainly. All right, Well, without much further ado,

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Speaker 1: let's introduce our guests. We're so excited for our guest today.

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Speaker 1: She is the creator and host of You Must Remember

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Speaker 1: This podcast and author of Seduction Sex Lies in Stardom

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Speaker 1: in Howard Hughes Is Hollywood. It's Karina Longworth. Hi, Hi,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me, Thanks for joining. Thank you. We've

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Speaker 1: been fan girling on the text tune. We're very excited, uh,

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Speaker 1: and we're excited to talk about this movie in particular.

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Speaker 1: Today we're discussing Gentlemen Prefer Blonde N three movie musical

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Speaker 1: comedy directed by Howard Hawks, Jane Russell, Marilyn Monroe. We

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Speaker 1: I don't think we've covered movies with either of them

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Speaker 1: in them before. I don't think so. No, so the

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Speaker 1: big first here on the Bechtel Cast today. It's nicely

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Speaker 1: like it's the only Marilyn in Rome movie I can

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Speaker 1: think of off the top of my head that where

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Speaker 1: she is basically paired against another woman. Yeah right, I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I've seen some like a Hot and I liked that

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Speaker 1: movie a lot, or at least I did pre Bectel

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Speaker 1: Cast to know I have to see it again and

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Speaker 1: then decide. But um, I haven't seen seven Year Itch,

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Speaker 1: and I don't really know. I'm not familiar with her

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Speaker 1: other work really, so I grew up with a Monroe

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Speaker 1: appreciating uncle who really laid it on thick, most likely

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Speaker 1: for all the wrong reasons. But I have seen a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of her movies. I hadn't seen

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Speaker 1: this movie in at least ten years. And I remembered

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Speaker 1: liking it, but I remember liking all of her movies,

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Speaker 1: and so I was pleasantly surprised and challenged by this

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Speaker 1: movie at a number of points where I thought, I,

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Speaker 1: you know, predicted because of the time it was made,

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Speaker 1: at what was going to happen, and very often I

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Speaker 1: was put in my fucking place if it was Karina,

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Speaker 1: what about you? What's your history your relationship with this movie.

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Speaker 1: I probably saw it for the first time when I

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Speaker 1: was a teenager, Um, when I kind of first discovered

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Speaker 1: Marilyn Monroe and and thought she was interesting. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how old you guys are, but like I was

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Speaker 1: a teenager in the nineties, and I like I remember,

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Speaker 1: pretty early in my awareness of who Marilyn Monroe was,

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Hurley made this comment. If you guys heard this,

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Speaker 1: she basically said something like if I was as fat

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Speaker 1: as Marilyn Monroe, I would kill myself. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: And like I just was just thinking about that today

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Speaker 1: because like, I mean, you watch this movie and she

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Speaker 1: does not look fat at all, and like, um, but

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Speaker 1: in the nineties and sort of waif culture, Um, I

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Speaker 1: remember watching this movie and thinking both she and Jane

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Speaker 1: Russell just had these like beautiful womanly bodies that like,

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Speaker 1: we're not really being represented in popular culture at that time.

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Speaker 1: And so that was probably like my first moment of

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Speaker 1: appreciation of the film. And and it's something where I've

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Speaker 1: seen it so many times now that I almost can't

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Speaker 1: even really enjoy it as a movie anymore because it's

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Speaker 1: I just know it so well. But then I was

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Speaker 1: watching it last night, and there are always things that

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Speaker 1: I forget about it, like in the diamonds are a

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Speaker 1: Girl's best friend, the fact that like the women and

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Speaker 1: the chandeliers are in bondage when I talk about and

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Speaker 1: and some just like some of the conversations like have

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Speaker 1: some really interesting aspects to them. There's some lines of

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Speaker 1: dialogue that I was just like, what did you just say?

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Speaker 1: But wow, okay, yeah, I had never seen this movie

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Speaker 1: and I just watched it the other day for the

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Speaker 1: first time. Well, you know what, I didn't like it,

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Speaker 1: But I'm not going to let that, you know, really

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Speaker 1: cloud any judgment in terms of our discussion what didn't

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Speaker 1: you what didn't you like about it? For we, I

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Speaker 1: feel like it took forever to get a story going.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you don't really know Hollywood musicals. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. We can talk about it in the discussion,

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Speaker 1: but this is just never going to be a movie

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Speaker 1: that I was gonna enjoy. But but but I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to talk about it. Okay, So I'll do the recap

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Speaker 1: of the story. So we meet Lord l Lee that's

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Speaker 1: Marilyn Monroe's character. And we meet Dorothy Shaw and that's

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Speaker 1: Jane Russell. They are best friends and they are like

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Speaker 1: a performing duo who sings and dances. They're singing about Arkansas.

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Speaker 1: They look great. We love them. Lor Lae is engaged

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Speaker 1: to a man named Gus Esmond. He's a rich guy

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Speaker 1: who showers her with gifts, but whose father disapproves of

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Speaker 1: lor Lae because he thinks that she's like a gold digger, which,

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Speaker 1: to be fair, she gets with strategy, right, yes, And

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Speaker 1: lore Lae and Gus are going to travel to France

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Speaker 1: to get married, and Dorothy is going to go along

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Speaker 1: on this trip to chaperone at kind of vague reasons. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems like it's like at the quest of Gus,

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Speaker 1: but but then he also doesn't seem to wander there

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Speaker 1: either way. We gotta get why didn't you just go

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Speaker 1: with him, because he later shows up in France. I

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Speaker 1: think for business reasons, you can't go on the same boat.

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Speaker 1: And that's why Dorothea is there because he knows that

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Speaker 1: left to her own devices, the Marilyn and character will

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Speaker 1: probably just like hook up with another rich dude. She does,

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Speaker 1: so Dorothy is supposed to be stopping that. But Dorothy,

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Speaker 1: you know, is very easily distracted by attractive men. Classic

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Speaker 1: Olympic team distraction. I yeah, I mean that they enable

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Speaker 1: each other in fun ways. Oh yes, yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: get on what's basically the Titanic a lot of Titanic.

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Speaker 1: It's like this movie is like what if the Titanic

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Speaker 1: didn't didn't crash but was sexy but was really hot.

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Speaker 1: So Lorala is on the hunt for a rich man

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Speaker 1: on the boat um possibly do for Dorothy? Yes, And

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Speaker 1: Dorothy is chasing after these Olympians because, unlike Lorel, she

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Speaker 1: cares more that a man is handsome than he is rich,

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Speaker 1: so or like I would argue like can give her

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Speaker 1: pleasure or something like that. It's kind of like the

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Speaker 1: money versus pleasure argument with them. Meanwhile, there's this guy

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Speaker 1: named Mr. Malone and he is trying to get close

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Speaker 1: to Lorela and Dorothy, and at first we don't really

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Speaker 1: know why. There's this all guy named Mr Beakman a k.

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Speaker 1: Piggy Old Piggy because I got Piggy. Piggy owns a

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Speaker 1: diamond mine. So Lorela is like trying to cozy up

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Speaker 1: next to Old Piggy and Piggy's like, yeah, she thinks

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Speaker 1: I'm hot. Should we know that Piggy is like older

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Speaker 1: and overweight and it's not attractive. He doesn't hit the

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Speaker 1: Western standards of beauty that we're used to. He's got

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Speaker 1: a monocle, though, does and that's kind of hot. It

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Speaker 1: does kind of look like Mr Monopoly, he truly does.

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Speaker 1: I guess Mr Monopoly would have also been a philandering, misogynist, right.

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Speaker 1: So Lorrea Lee sees Piggy's wife's diamond tiara, and she

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Speaker 1: for freaking loves and she's like, I gotta have that.

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Speaker 1: So while all that's happening, Dorothy and Mr Malone are

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Speaker 1: like giving each other the q D eye until she

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Speaker 1: sees him spying on and taking photos of Loria Lee

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Speaker 1: while she's with Piggy, which is just like the scene

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Speaker 1: in the gym in Titanic, right, so then Dorothy is like, oh,

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Speaker 1: he must be a private eye. That Gus is. I

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Speaker 1: think Dad higher just what she speculates to keep tabs

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Speaker 1: on Laura Lee because he's just trying to shut down

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Speaker 1: these impending nuptials between Loria Lee and Gus. So then

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Speaker 1: Dorothy she's disappointed that her new crush is a spy.

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Speaker 1: But and she and Lorela were like, crap, you gotta

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Speaker 1: get these incriminating photos from him. They're like, let's do

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Speaker 1: a very difficult, problematic thing to watch in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eighteen. Let us drug Mr Malone and strip him

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Speaker 1: and rob him. Yep, you know we can talk about

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Speaker 1: it and you can talk about it there. When that

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Speaker 1: scene started, I was like, oh, oh no, I forgot

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Speaker 1: about this part. And then it just gets like more

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Speaker 1: and more and more intense. And then because they're like

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Speaker 1: gaslighting him, he's like, what's in this drink? And he

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, it's just vodka and and that we're Lorias.

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Speaker 1: They turn up the heat, let's roast him, kill him,

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Speaker 1: Let's do it. Uh. Oh it was crack, and then

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Speaker 1: never mentioned again. Next day he's he's like, are you

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Speaker 1: broken up? Like you should honestly break up with Jane Russell.

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Speaker 1: If that yeah, that's good behavior goes both ways. Baby,

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Speaker 1: you can't roofy anyone. No, And then, and maybe this

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Speaker 1: is just me not knowing how boats work, but they

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Speaker 1: somehow get the photos developed on the boat, as if

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Speaker 1: there's a dark room on the Titanic. I mean back

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Speaker 1: in the day when people everybody used to take photos

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Speaker 1: on film, like you could get photos developed almost anywhere,

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Speaker 1: so I would believe it, Like I mean, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: alive in the fifties, but in the eighties, like literally

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Speaker 1: you get photos developed on any corner, Okay, I did.

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Speaker 1: I found it a little difficult to suspend my disbelief

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Speaker 1: for their being a dark room on a ship, but hey,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe there was. I don't know, let's go with it.

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Speaker 1: I also, the picture that is developed is so funny whatever,

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Speaker 1: like the goat and the snake and the picture right,

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Speaker 1: they're doing like an act out of like how animals

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Speaker 1: eat each other, and it's it is incriminating, I suppose. So.

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Speaker 1: Then so for some reason this is even crazier to me.

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Speaker 1: Louraa shows the photos to Piggy. She did not need

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Speaker 1: to do that. She could have just destroyed the film,

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Speaker 1: but that's not what happens. Instead, she's like, here, here's

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Speaker 1: what would have incriminated us if these photos got out,

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Speaker 1: And then Piggy's like, Wow, you're so awesome for showing

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Speaker 1: me these I'm going to give you a gift about it. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I think that was her playing a long game. That

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Speaker 1: was how I interpreted that of like, she'll definitely get

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Speaker 1: something now, but she also might get something later if

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Speaker 1: she just doesn't outright blackmail him. They're like, hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: on your side, and then she'll still have those pictures forever. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that makes me like her character even less but more Tiara, right.

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Speaker 1: So then he's like, oh, how about you know, give

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Speaker 1: you a motorcycle or something. She's like, no, I went

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Speaker 1: your wife's diamond Tiara now, so he gives it to her.

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Speaker 1: He like, seems reason so full. Then it's revealed that

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Speaker 1: Mr Malone was audio recording that conversation, so he still

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Speaker 1: has incriminating evidence against her, and it's like, bro, if

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Speaker 1: you have the equipment, just start a podcast. You know,

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Speaker 1: don't exploit women. Um So then Dorothy's like, hey, Malone,

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Speaker 1: I like you, but if you try to, you know,

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Speaker 1: exploit my friend, I'm not gonna like you anymore. So

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Speaker 1: then they get to Friends and share Board, which is

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Speaker 1: where Titanic left from, and there's a shopping montage and

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Speaker 1: then love It, and then we get to the hotel

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Speaker 1: where Lady Beakman Piggy's why his wife. His wife accuses

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Speaker 1: Lorlae of stealing the diamond Tiara Um and then the

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Speaker 1: hotels like, you guys can't stay here because much like

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Speaker 1: a little scene in a movie called Titanic where someone

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Speaker 1: except this time she actually did have yeah, but you

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Speaker 1: know a robbery scene involving a diamond related Robert Yeah,

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Speaker 1: specifically about diamonds. Yes. And then Malone had told Gus's

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Speaker 1: dad about the goings on with Laura Lee, so he's like,

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Speaker 1: the wedding is off. And then here's when things get

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Speaker 1: really wild where the cops show up to arrest Laura Lee.

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Speaker 1: So she runs away, and then Dorothy pretending to be

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Speaker 1: Lorea Lye in like a blonde wig or maybe she

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Speaker 1: dyed her hair blonde. She goes to court because you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're arrested, you immediately go to court. Afterwards court,

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Speaker 1: so that happens, and then Malone shows up and he's

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Speaker 1: all like he's about to sell out Laura Lee. But

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Speaker 1: Dorothy's like, hey, I'm Laura Lee, but my friend Dorothy

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Speaker 1: is in love with you. But if you say anything

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Speaker 1: bad about her, I won't love you anymore. And he's

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Speaker 1: like never mind. J K. She blackmails him in public.

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Speaker 1: He's like okay, It's like okay, And then he figures

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Speaker 1: out where the tiara is and it gets returned to Piggy,

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Speaker 1: and then Laura Line and Dorothy, Mary Us and Malone

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Speaker 1: and kiss and that's the end of the movie. Sure

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Speaker 1: is I didn't hear anything weirder or or I happened.

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Speaker 1: So to answer a question, Um, the story that unfolds

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Speaker 1: is why I don't like this movie. Okay, it's a

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Speaker 1: stupid story, but oh okay, but I'm willing to hear

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Speaker 1: everyone's arguments to the contrary. Okay, where do we Where

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Speaker 1: do we start? Um? I just wanted to note that

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Speaker 1: the source material, even though the I believe the screenplay

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Speaker 1: was written by a man, but the source material is

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Speaker 1: from a screenwriter named Anita Loose who's also a novelist

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Speaker 1: and was like one of the first I think contract

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Speaker 1: female screenwriters, or she wrote most of Douglas Fairbanks first movies.

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Speaker 1: She was one of the biggest screenwriters during the Silent Era,

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Speaker 1: and then in the nineteen thirties she really helped to

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Speaker 1: shape Geene Harlowe's persona by writing some of her movie

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Speaker 1: and then she wrote several memoirs about her time in

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Speaker 1: Hollywood which are really great. Um, so she's a cool lady.

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Speaker 1: And she initially wrote Gentlemen Prefer Blondes as a serial

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Speaker 1: that was published I think in Harper's Bazaar, and it

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Speaker 1: was inspired by, um, this friend of hers, h. L. Mencken,

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Speaker 1: who was a New York intellectual who you know, was

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Speaker 1: a middle aged man, extremely intelligent, and he was just

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Speaker 1: like completely overwhelmed by his attraction to some little blonde

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Speaker 1: show girl. And so Nita Lowe's basically wrote this satire

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Speaker 1: about how somebody who could easily be dismissed as like

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Speaker 1: a dumb blonde Fluzi was actually incredibly smart and cunning

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Speaker 1: and was able to intellectually overpower in her own way

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Speaker 1: like a giant of letters. Yeah, and that happens in

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Speaker 1: the movie, I think, Yeah, I mean it happens a

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Speaker 1: bunch of times there. Woman. Be Let's start there with

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Speaker 1: the how men are portrayed in this movie before we

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Speaker 1: get to lor Lye and Dorothy Um, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's it's definitely like played for comedy a lot. How

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Speaker 1: men are in this movie are absolutely handicapped immediately by

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Speaker 1: their own erections and like willing to do almost anything

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Speaker 1: to even spend time with Loria Lie be anywhere near her.

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Speaker 1: We see it with Gus, who I don't think we're

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Speaker 1: led to believe he's an idiot. He's not a brilliant man.

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Speaker 1: He's no man of letters. No, but he's you know,

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Speaker 1: he's he's wearing glasses, that's Hollywood go free. He's not dumb,

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Speaker 1: He's got some stuff going for him, but he you know,

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Speaker 1: as anytime Loura lie says something needs something, asked for something,

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Speaker 1: no matter how irrational, he gives it to her. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. And I mean the same goes for Piggy,

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Speaker 1: But I I don't know. I mean, this is seems

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Speaker 1: like a very dated foreman. I feel like almost plays

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Speaker 1: into I was thinking about when we watched Teeth Caitlin

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Speaker 1: and how you know women are sometimes portrayed as these

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Speaker 1: cunning creatures that want to take things from you and

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Speaker 1: need to sort of be neutered, uh in order and domesticated,

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Speaker 1: and you see kind of shades of that, but Loyaliz's

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Speaker 1: character always wins and always gets what she wants, and

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Speaker 1: so it feels like those sorts of stories are being

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Speaker 1: commented on sort of where she is genuinely very manipulative

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Speaker 1: and cunning, which women are commonly accused of being, but

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Speaker 1: she also gets what she wants and isn't in the end,

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Speaker 1: isn't punished for wanting those things, which seems like a victory, right,

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Speaker 1: I guess what bothers me about it? Like there's a

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Speaker 1: scene at the very end whenever she finally is face

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Speaker 1: to face with Gus's father, who has long disapproved of

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Speaker 1: her and the idea of her, and you see him

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Speaker 1: start to warm up to her because she's pretty, and

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Speaker 1: who says the lines and like, hey, I thought you

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Speaker 1: were supposed to be stupid it, but you're not. And

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Speaker 1: I'm confused. Now She's like, guys, just give me three

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Speaker 1: minutes alone with your father and then everything would be

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Speaker 1: fine in her breathy voice. But then it cuts immediately

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Speaker 1: to their wedding, so we don't even get to see like,

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Speaker 1: and we do see other scenes where she's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: cunning and coy with her sort of like manipulation. But

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Speaker 1: I feel like there was an opportunity to like, see, okay,

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Speaker 1: let's let's see her be smart and do something. Well,

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Speaker 1: that speech she gives at the end I thought was

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Speaker 1: like pretty effective in demonstrating that point where essentially when

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Speaker 1: she is confronted with the father and he's like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you're as hot as they say, anyways, you can't marry

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Speaker 1: my son, and she has what I thought was like

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Speaker 1: a really cool, interesting speech about what is it if

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Speaker 1: a girl is pretty, that's not the reason you marry her,

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Speaker 1: but it certainly helps, which is you know, we can

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Speaker 1: unpack that statement all day, but she is like demonstrating

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Speaker 1: that she understands what she's doing. She's not ashamed of it,

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Speaker 1: and she doesn't think she has to be. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know, well, she's contrasting basically, the father is accusing

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Speaker 1: her of the only one in to marry her son

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Speaker 1: for his money, and she's like, look, she's contrasting being

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Speaker 1: beautiful as being a value in a woman to being

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Speaker 1: rich and a value in a man. And she's talking

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Speaker 1: about this double standard, and I think as aggressive of

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Speaker 1: language as an actress like Marilyn Monroe could in a

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Speaker 1: movie of nine three sure for sure. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: and then then the scene before when she says to

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Speaker 1: us something you came to like, Well, I didn't become

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Speaker 1: this way because I wanted to like. The way society

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Speaker 1: is set up made me this way, right, which I

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Speaker 1: think is like basically the thesis of that character, which

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Speaker 1: is that she understands that the world is set up

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Speaker 1: to exploit her, and so she's all of her behavior

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Speaker 1: is kind of a defense mechanism, like she's beating people

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Speaker 1: to the punch by exploiting them. And you can argue

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Speaker 1: as to whether or not that's good feminism, but I

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Speaker 1: think for the time it was a certain kind of progressive. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's true, and seems to have a level of practicality

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Speaker 1: to it, where I mean, I I don't know. We

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Speaker 1: I would argue that, you know, they're they're sort of

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Speaker 1: representing two different kinds of feminism, where Marilyn Monroe's character

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Speaker 1: is more of a survival based understands that society values

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Speaker 1: her until she's a certain age or until she looks

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Speaker 1: a certain way, and then she's on her own. So

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Speaker 1: she's like kind of stockpiling now, so she'll be set

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Speaker 1: later because we have to assume there will be limited

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Speaker 1: opportunities for her as she gets older. So in some

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Speaker 1: ways that like level of self preservation and just good

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Speaker 1: old fashioned redistributing the wealth. That certainly, I guess it

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Speaker 1: just bugs me a little bit that a large part

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Speaker 1: of what she does to sort of exploit people, or

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Speaker 1: so she's using largely her looks and kind of like

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Speaker 1: feminine wiles to get what she wants, and because women

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Speaker 1: have historically been valued only for their looks, I find

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Speaker 1: that a bit troubling. But also maybe the fact that

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Speaker 1: she's using that very idea and using it to get

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Speaker 1: what she wants is good. I don't know. I just

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Speaker 1: you know, what I mean is to look at it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think in the context of the time

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Speaker 1: this is being made, her options are limited, sure, just

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Speaker 1: by what society will allow women to do. And of

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Speaker 1: course there's like always outliers there, and we could argue

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Speaker 1: that loyal I should go to college and get a

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Speaker 1: doctorate and become a scientist and now become a woman

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Speaker 1: in stem Yes, queen go off and you know, really

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Speaker 1: defeat the patriarchy single handedly. But given I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I I understand, and I feel like that the movie

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Speaker 1: goes out of its way more than an average movie

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Speaker 1: of this time to get across to you that she

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Speaker 1: is trying to survive the only way she knows how

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Speaker 1: um with I mean, with the support of a man.

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Speaker 1: But also I don't I don't know. I I ended

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Speaker 1: up liking moralized character a lot more than I thought

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Speaker 1: that I would, And and Dorothy's as well. They I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're both symbols from the survival, but only because she's

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Speaker 1: like on st are they're going to do to pay

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Speaker 1: the bills. When she turns, she's the one who's gone

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Speaker 1: and become a woman in stem she's gonna be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've had all the sex. I'm going back to school there.

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Speaker 1: But he had a similar discussion on the Breakfast at

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Speaker 1: Tiphanies episode another movie that I simply do not like.

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Speaker 1: But I understand that because women have had to kind

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Speaker 1: of use unconventional ways to get things, uh you know,

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Speaker 1: hapital or opportunities and things like that because they've not

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Speaker 1: been afforded to us historically. That is something I appreciate

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Speaker 1: and like to see stories about. But I guess when

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Speaker 1: it's like, Hey, I'm a beautiful woman, and let me

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Speaker 1: exploit that to get the things I want. Like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I guess it's just because great that that's

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Speaker 1: available to you. But what about all the women who aren't,

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Speaker 1: you know, conventionally attractive by Western beauty standards. Like what,

422
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: It's a very individual approach, sure, for sure. Um, Hey,

423
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we'll come right

424
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: back for more. Okay, and we're back. So, Karina, this

425
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: is like your old Hollywood this is your expertise. So

426
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 1: what are you? What are your thin? Well? I mean,

427
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: I I enjoy the movie more than you do. Um.

428
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: I think that it's fair to say that the storyline

429
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: is thin and silly, but that's part of of just

430
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: being a musical comedy of nineteen fifty three. I also

431
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: think that this movie kind of critiques previous musical comedies

432
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: in various ways. I mean, and that was typical of

433
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: musical Hollywood musicals of the nineteen fifties, is that they

434
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: had a meta quality to them. Singing in the Rain

435
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: would be another example of that, where they're sort of

436
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: quoting previous musicals and making them a little bit more ridiculous.

437
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: While at the same time also blowing you away by

438
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: certain technical things like choreography and costuming. But I mean,

439
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: I've read about this in my new book Seduction, Sex

440
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: Lies and started in hollywoodward Hollywood because of Jane Russell,

441
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: who was the second of two actresses who Howard Hughes

442
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: basically discovered and turned into major stars. And basically previous

443
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 1: to this movie, Jane Russell was most known for being

444
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: and Howard Who's is the Outlaw, but really most known

445
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: for being in the publicity surrounding Howard hugh'ses the Outlaw,

446
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: which was entirely built around exploiting her breasts and showing

447
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: as much of them as Hughes could get away with

448
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 1: at the time, and at the time, like right after

449
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: this movie came out, Hughes was sued by some of

450
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,239
Speaker 1: the shareholders in the studio he owned, r KO, and

451
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: the main focus of their complaint was that they thought

452
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 1: that Jane Russell was a waste of money and that

453
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 1: she wasn't a good actress, wasn't a good star, and

454
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: that he had squandered the shareholders money building her up.

455
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: But the timing of their lawsuit was really unfortunate because

456
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: it came to court right after A Gentleman Prefer Blonde

457
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: came out and had been a massive hit, one of

458
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: the top ten highest grossing movies of the year. It

459
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: was the biggest blockbuster of the summer, and it turned

460
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 1: her into a star almost as big as Marion le Monroe.

461
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: So that lawsuit didn't go very well for the shareholders. Um.

462
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: But one of the things that I do find really

463
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: interesting about this film is the fact that she had

464
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: been absolutely the target of like the most withering male gaze.

465
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: I mean. Also, the other thing about the Outlaw is

466
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: that a lot of it is built around a rape scene,

467
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: and a lot of the publicity around it featured like

468
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: a cartoon of the rape scene. So this is all

469
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: detail in my book as well. But so she went

470
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: from that to playing this role of Dorothy and Gentlemen

471
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: Prefer Blonde, where it's all about her gaze, it's all

472
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: about her objectifying men. Her costumes are comparatively really covered

473
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: up compared to what she had worn previously, especially this

474
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: scene where she is like singing about her sexual desire

475
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: for these Olympic dancers, like they are wearing tshtone shorts

476
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: that make them look naked. And she is wearing a

477
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: high necked, comparatively high necked black jumpsuit. You can't really

478
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 1: see her cleavage, which was what she was known for

479
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: at the time. And she's not it's not a thing

480
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: where she's singing about I want these men to want me.

481
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: She's singing about how she wants them right. So I

482
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: think all of that is really interesting. I mean, I

483
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: love Jane Russell, and a lot of the reason why

484
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: I love Jane Russell is because of this movie. Yeah,

485
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: I really liked her character a lot. Um. I would

486
00:28:51,720 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: say I prefer hers w Brunette there Ca, prefer new

487
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: movie coming out, new what men um. That scene was

488
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: so interesting and having that context for it is so

489
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: helpful because I assumed that that scene was just commentary

490
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: on other musicals, like what you were saying, where you know,

491
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: you're going through the screen full of women in various

492
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: bathing suits and treating them is set dressing and and

493
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: all that that happens all the time, even now. But

494
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: that scene was so fun and it seemed to communicate

495
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: it like it knew exactly what it was doing. Jane

496
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: Russell's great in it. She's so funny and all the

497
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: all the Olympian men were just vacant. They're all none

498
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: of them. They were just flexing. They just bodies. They're

499
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: just exactly like they weren't even allowed to in the

500
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: way that some scenes like that would like the women

501
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: turns to the guy who's singing and goes like, oh,

502
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: but like they didn't even they were just there. They

503
00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: were automaton, flesh toned muscle boys. Yeah, yeah, for sure,

504
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: it was great. But I would say that while both

505
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: of these characters, both Lorlie and Dorothy, the story boils

506
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: down to basically a friendship between two women and the

507
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: things that they want and how they try to get them,

508
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: but they're also framed pretty much entirely by the men

509
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: that they're attracted to, Like what type of man they're

510
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: going for. That's how like their personalities are defined to us,

511
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: or like like she goes for this kind of guy,

512
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: so she's this girl. And Dorothy goes for glasses spy,

513
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: and so she she's this girl. Right, So using that

514
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: as a way to like characterize women is you know,

515
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: not the best way to do it, but we still yeah,

516
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: I mean, because I mean they're two very distinguishable women.

517
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: But there, I would say pretty still archetypal, where it's

518
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: like Loreali is the like blonde, dizzy, airheaded, doesn't know

519
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: what a tr is, right, doesn't understand where Frances this

520
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: kind of thing, although that exchange does past the Bactel test. Yeah,

521
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: I mean a place to even the stereotypes of blondes

522
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: and brunettes in some ways, although I guess, I mean,

523
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess I'd have to revisit the

524
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: old Trope book because I don't know that brunettes would

525
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: be portrayed as like seeking constant sexual stimulation and pleasure. Right,

526
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: I guess she's framed as because she's not blonde, she's

527
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: just like different from that like archetypal, like ditzy blonde type. So,

528
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: and because she's not blonde, that means she's smart instead

529
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: of airhead. And she's sarcastic. And that's basically what we

530
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: know about Dorothy. I kind of wanted, well, I wanted

531
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: to talk about the title of the movie Gentlemen Prefer Blondes,

532
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: because one, it reduces women to their hair color, which

533
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: means it's objectifying women's all of Marilyn's career, and this

534
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: is something that happens within this movie and in countless

535
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: other ones. So that's you know, not read uh. And

536
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: it perpetuates the idea that like the blonde bombshell is

537
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: the ideal standard of beauty for women, which has long

538
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: been perpetuated by the media and movies like this one.

539
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: I I mean, as it pertains to Dorothy's character, I

540
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: like her a lot. I liked her relationship with Malone felt,

541
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: you know, more authentic than a lot of relationships. I

542
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: think they've got banter. She you know, she starts out

543
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: by kind of calling him out. Where in that first

544
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: interaction they have at the table, he is lying to her,

545
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: but he's saying like, oh, I'm rich and I've got

546
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: all this stuff, and she's like, you know, funk off,

547
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: that's not what I'm interested in. Leave me alone. And

548
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: and I found that, besides the fact that you know,

549
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: she roufies him, he lize to her, those two things aside.

550
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: I found the relationship to be very pleasant or more

551
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: you know. And again it's like we have to contextualize

552
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: everything with a movie like this, And for for this time,

553
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: I thought it was a kind of a sweet relationship,

554
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: and you know, to the end, it could have been

555
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: very easy for him to, you know, do his job

556
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: and not do what she told him to to save

557
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: the relationship. But he does. He values her above spying

558
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: on Marilyn Monroe. I would argue that he she is

559
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: very forgiving of his not that great behavior. I do

560
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: she rufies him, though that's true, No one really comes

561
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: out of yeah to quote some like it hot. On

562
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: one hand, there is that classic like guy initiating a

563
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: relationship under false under a false identity thing, but then

564
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: she rufies him, so is it a lot? But she

565
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: has to tell him, like so often what she I

566
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: don't I don't know why I'm about to try to

567
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: defend a rufie scene. But she only does that because

568
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: he's sneaking around spying on her friend. To me, this

569
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: whole storyline plays out where she has to keep being like,

570
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: you keep trying to funk with my friend, and I

571
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: like my friends, so you better not do that. But

572
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: if you don't do it, even if that's where your intentioned,

573
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: or I'm gonna you know, well she bailed on him

574
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 1: when he didn't that immediately takes him back another Well,

575
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: we don't know how much time passes necessarily, but they're

576
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: not to like come to the extreme defense of this movie.

577
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: But I I feel that might be a little bit

578
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: reductive of how that relationship works, because Dorothy does tell

579
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: Malone to go frick himself if you will, when it

580
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: comes down to he's going to keep sabotaging her friendship,

581
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: which for both of them seems like the most important

582
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: thing to them. Where there's even that scene where Dorothy

583
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: and Malone there on the deck, it's all very tightan

584
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 1: you know, and Malone makes a jab at Lorala, and

585
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: Dorothy immediately is like, I can talk about her that way.

586
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,439
Speaker 1: You don't know her, you can't talk about her. She's

587
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: actually very smart, and don't do that, and and you know,

588
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: clearly defines the boundaries of you know, Loreline Dorothy are

589
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: critical of each other, but they respect each other and

590
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: care about each other and want the best, even though

591
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: in Loyaliz's case, she kind of wants her version of

592
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: the best. Dorothy, Yeah, I suppose, how do you I

593
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: don't know, what do you make of that friendship? I

594
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: actually think that it's um it's really positive, especially for

595
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 1: the time period. I mean, there are just not a

596
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: lot of movies where you have two female stars who

597
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: were treated by the movie as equals. You know, I

598
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: can name a few others, but like, I think that

599
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: for that time period, it was really really unusual, and

600
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: I do think that it is more central to the

601
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,959
Speaker 1: movie than any of the male female relationships. And also,

602
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: like I guess I just wanna one thing I don't

603
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: think we've like stated in these words so much is

604
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: that I don't think that what Laurel I is ultimately

605
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: going after is rich men. I think she's going after diamonds.

606
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 1: Like her real love affair is with diamonds, and it's

607
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: with this idea of accumulating wealth, and this is her

608
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: way of doing it. Like there's a whole song about it,

609
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,439
Speaker 1: and diamonds are a girl's best friend, and I think

610
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: like the staging of that song really plays up the

611
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: idea that like, because she accumulates wealth, she's free, whereas

612
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: these women behind her are like dressed in black and

613
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: are like literally tied up. And so I mean it's

614
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: you know, obviously it's skewed, and it's also satire, but

615
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: I actually just think that, like so many of the

616
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: messages in this film are positive. Yeah, I liked this

617
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: the way this movie plays the friendship. I was like

618
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,720
Speaker 1: so surprised by it every turn because you and even

619
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 1: in movies now occasionally you'll see a friendship break because

620
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: you know that the husband wanted this or the boyfriend

621
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: wanted this, and you know, women can have friends, but

622
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the romantic relationship is

623
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: going to take precedence and could break off. But they

624
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: make it so clear that that is never going to

625
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: be the case. And it's also just nice or something

626
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 1: that I don't think you see very much to see

627
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: two women who view the same thing. I don't know,

628
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: a victory and bipartisanship is Laura Lee and Dorothy's friendship

629
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: because they they view life in a fundamentally different way,

630
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: but they appreciate each other. They don't let it ruin

631
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: their friendship, even though they're constantly like debating is money

632
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,359
Speaker 1: or fucking more important? Which jury is still out We

633
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: don't know, uh, but I don't know. I I appreciated

634
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 1: how they that could have so easily been played into

635
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 1: like constant like cat fight e stuff. Definitely, but they

636
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: had like actual conversations about it. And you know, when

637
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: Loria I would try to push her viewpoint on Dorothy,

638
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: Dorothy be like no, I'm going to, you know, frick

639
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: the Olympic team, see you lay her because when she

640
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: does try to do that, she accidentally sents Dorothy up

641
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,919
Speaker 1: with a child who who I'm pretty sure is like

642
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: a creep in the making, because he has a few

643
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 1: lines where he's like, oh, I appreciate a good looking women,

644
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: and then he's like, I'll help you because you've got

645
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: a lot of animal magnetism. Marilyn Monroe accidentally Winnie the

646
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: Poos herself she gets stuck in a port hole. I

647
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: was like, I can't believe they're they're Winnie the poohing

648
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: her or I don't know which came first. Either way,

649
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: she's a honeypot Winnie the Pooing and she needs a

650
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: little Christopher Robin to yank her out that was dying

651
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: at the scene. Yeah, that was really what a treat.

652
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: Uh Yeah, I mean that really the only thing with

653
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: that friendship were the main thing with the movie that

654
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: I felt like wasn't really commentary and was sort of

655
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: just playing to like, and this is how a movie ends,

656
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: is the double wedding end. There was like the only

657
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: major thing that happens in this movie that I was

658
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: not like that's kind of sure. I guess I guess

659
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 1: that that's how movies end at this time. But even

660
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: that is like, is putting the friendship above either of

661
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: these relationships, because like, neither woman is um is saying like,

662
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: you can't be part of my wedding day. We want

663
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: to do this together. You know, neither neither one is

664
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: like it's like I'm the star here, it's my day.

665
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: It's more like it's our day, right, that's true, And

666
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: they're yeah, they married each other. I mean, maybe that's

667
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: what the movie is saying that they're really doing. Maybe

668
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: just coded. Yeah, oh I like that. I guess for me,

669
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: it boils down to and this is maybe just simply

670
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,240
Speaker 1: a preference thing, But because I agree that the friendship

671
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: between them is represented in a by and large positive

672
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,240
Speaker 1: way where they're constantly defending each other, but they're also

673
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: challenging each other but in healthy ways, and they general

674
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: really are trying to help and support each other. What

675
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: I don't like is that the things that they're trying

676
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: to do or to get are framed entirely around men.

677
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: What I prefer, I guess, in like a female friendship

678
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: story is something like Thelman Louise, where you know, you

679
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,919
Speaker 1: got to supportive friends and the men have fucked them over,

680
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: so they're just going to go and shoot up a

681
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: bunch of you know, convenience stores instead. Sure, that's just

682
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: my preference, my Caitlin prefers. I mean, I think I'm

683
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: sure that there's a way you could sort of show

684
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: a movie like Gentlemen Prefer Blondes as paving the way

685
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: for other movies that to exist. Of just you know,

686
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: if there were no movies portraying two women and uh,

687
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: you know, Ride or Die friendship, I think that you

688
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 1: know those movies really quick before we wrap up the discussion,

689
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: I wanted to give a quick shot out to Lady Beekman.

690
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: Lady Beakman, I you know you feel for her because

691
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: even there there's some commentary of Piggy is this hornial

692
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: dumbass with a lot of diamonds who is actively philandery

693
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: on his wife who we meet, who is originally very

694
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,720
Speaker 1: nice to Dorothy and to Lorelai and then later comes

695
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: back for the Tierra, which I applied her for. Um.

696
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: I just wanted to give a quick shout out to

697
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: Lady Beekman, who did nothing to anyone no, Yeah, she

698
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: just has a creepy old husband. Just let her live. Yeah.

699
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: A couple of lines of dialogue that I wrote down

700
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: that I Dorothy says, I like a man who can

701
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: run faster than I can, which sounds terrifying. No, I

702
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: want a very slow man. Um personally, Caitlin prefers Sloman.

703
00:41:57,760 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 1: I forget which one of them says this. I think

704
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 1: it might be Dorothy. But someone says, if we can't

705
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: empty his pockets between us, we're not worthy of the

706
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 1: name woman. But that's like about the person they're roofing. Yes,

707
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: it is fair if like two women can't like I've

708
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: passed out manet and they do so, they don't think

709
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 1: that's exactly what they keep the name women. Um Gus

710
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: says about Lorla, I'm going to make her marry me. Yeah,

711
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 1: that was not and love and and there was one

712
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 1: little grabby from Malone from Malone that was like, oh yeah.

713
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: He says to Dorothy, I'm not wrong about you, and

714
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: you're gonna listen to me, and says this while he's

715
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: angrily grabbing her arm and turning him, turning her toward him.

716
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: It's so hard to know. I think they're just playing

717
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: a complicated game of dominance and submission. Actually, it's fine.

718
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: We just didn't see the whole contract, seeing like in

719
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 1: the sensors cut that out there. Um a quick fun

720
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: thing that I found on IMDb And maybe Karina you

721
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: know about this. But a couple of years after Gentlemen

722
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: Prefer Blonde, Jane Russell was in another movie called Gentleman

723
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 1: Mary Brunettes. But it doesn't seem to be a sequel

724
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: or any type of In no way is it related.

725
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: She doesn't play the same character. Like Weirdly, Anita Loris

726
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: did write a sequel to Gentlemen Prefer Blondes called Gentleman

727
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: Mary Brunette's. But then when it came time to make

728
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 1: this movie. I think her niece actually wrote the movie

729
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: Mary Anita Loose, but they just like throughout the original

730
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: story because they couldn't get Marilyn Monroe. Um, so they

731
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: just did something else. I haven't seen that film. Okay, interesting,

732
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: we gotta take a quick break, but we'll come right back. Okay, Hey,

733
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 1: let's talk about it. Whether or not this movie passes

734
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: the Bechdel test, right, it's interesting. I was reading a

735
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: lot of criticism of this movie after watching it and

736
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: getting all my own thoughts, you know, shouted out, etcetera.

737
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: A lot of critics say this movie does not pass

738
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 1: the Backtel test, and they must be, I think, using

739
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: a different version than we are, perhaps, yeah, because there

740
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 1: are certain caveats and variations on on the test. But again,

741
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: for our sake, it's just a at least two lines

742
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: between female identifying characters who are not talking about men.

743
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: Using that standard, I would say the movie does. Yeah.

744
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: A bunch of times. Well, I would say, if I

745
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 1: only found a couple, I think hit me, Okay, here's

746
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: here we go. Dorothy says, not Europe France, frances in Europe.

747
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: Lore Lie says, who says it wasn't. Dorothy says, well,

748
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: you wouldn't say like, oh, where's North America Mexico? Would you?

749
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: And she's like, well, that's where I wanted to go?

750
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 1: I would that passes silly. It's there's a lot of

751
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 1: the passes I came up with. It's it's tricky because

752
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: the subtext of what they're talking about very almost nearly

753
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: all the time is marriage and men. And because that's

754
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: the central debate of these characters is how do they

755
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 1: view this? Um so I mean, there are some I

756
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: got like six or seven passes of like on the page.

757
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: They're not technical about men technically, but the subtext of

758
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: the whole movie it's hard. Yeah, they might not mention

759
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: a man's name in the conversation, but I would say

760
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: almost every single conversation they have is either about a

761
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: specific man or they're talking about the concept of loving

762
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: men or finding a man. Passes a few times in

763
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 1: theory when they're in the process of roof being malone,

764
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: they're talking about stealing picks. They're talking about turning up

765
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: the heat but from a man, and to make a

766
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: man uncomfortable. So I mean it's it's I mean, the

767
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: very and as we always say, it's a flawed metric perfect.

768
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 1: The whole thing this movie is trying to comment on

769
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: is like how women perceive marriage and men and how

770
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: like how to survive and get and live a fulfilling

771
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: life at this time. So it's kind of I mean,

772
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 1: it's a tricky movie to pass, sure, Yeah, for sure,

773
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: although Lady Beikman and Laura I talk about diamonds. Sure,

774
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: but yeah, almost every conversation between women is about men,

775
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 1: either in subtext or context or like explicitly, but does

776
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: pass our standards go movie. One quick thing that I

777
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: wanted to mention is there's a moment where whenever Gus's

778
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: father is like, hey, they told me you were stupid,

779
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: and Laura Lie says, I can be smart when it's important,

780
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: but most men don't like it. Which there are a

781
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,439
Speaker 1: couple of lines like that that I do appreciate where

782
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 1: she kind of like challenges the status quo or she

783
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: points out a double standard. I would have liked that

784
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:49,399
Speaker 1: to happen more. But again, thinking about the movie being three,

785
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: and yeah, this is paving the way for more progressive

786
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 1: texts to come down the pipeline. But um, yeah I didn't.

787
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: I think I came down too hard on Laura Lie. Um,

788
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: but that's just because I'm a brunette and women are

789
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: defined by their hair color. And then can God, yeah,

790
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: I just I wanted I thought that was that was cool.

791
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: And the there's a line where she's talking to Gusts

792
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: and she says, and we touch on this briefly, but

793
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: I don't wanted to read the quote. It's men like

794
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 1: you who have made me the way I am, and

795
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: if you love me at all, you'd feel sorry for

796
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 1: the terrible troubles I've been through instead of holding them

797
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 1: against me. So yeah, those are those are moments. I

798
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: appreciate it great. I feel like that. Yeah, all this

799
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: entire you know, reaches its logical conclusion by the end

800
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: of the movie. And I don't know, I thought this

801
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: movie held held up pretty damn well given that it's

802
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: over what sixty sixty five years old, um, and a

803
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: lot of that, I mean, all the typical um prejudices

804
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: and issues of the era are on full display, where

805
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: I mean, unfortunately goes without saying that this is an

806
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: entirely white movie. This is an entirely straight movie. This

807
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: is you know, all that is fully what it is,

808
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 1: uh in nineteen fifty three. But given the time, I

809
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,439
Speaker 1: was very impressed with this movie, and I would watch

810
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: it again. Well, let's rate it, speaking of you know,

811
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 1: how we fail about it zero to five nipples based

812
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: on its portrayal and representation of women. I am going

813
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: to give it, I would say like a two. And

814
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: maybe it's because I don't really like this movie that

815
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: maybe I did let it cloud my judgment. But while

816
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: I do appreciate the female friendship and how it probably

817
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 1: did pave the way for more progressive movies about female

818
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: friendship to be made. I think that because the goals

819
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 1: of the women are defined entirely by and framed entirely

820
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 1: around the type of men that they're after. I think also,

821
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: this movie was funded by the dime industry, Like is

822
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: that true? Probably not, but but like what it's okay,

823
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: it was funded by twenties century Fox. But it it

824
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 1: does like actually promote the names of several diamond Tiffany. Yeah,

825
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: so I just Kalen didn't like the movie. I didn't

826
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: like the movie. I do appreciate a few of the

827
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: things that does it. You know, it does challenge different

828
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: gender specific double standards. It does show a positive female friendship.

829
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: I don't know the fact that the only thing we

830
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: really know about them is the type of men that

831
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 1: they want, and the only thing we see them do

832
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: is things to either land a man or in some

833
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: cases several different men. If you're talking about Laura La,

834
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: which is fine, Hey, if you want to fuck a

835
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: bunch of people, do it. Also, Gus is like really

836
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: possessive of her and like jealous, and he's like you

837
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: need a shap around because I don't trust you, because

838
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: you're a woman who's hot, and so you're probably gonna

839
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 1: up to be fair, he cannot trust her, true, Maybe

840
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,359
Speaker 1: he's not like stereotyping her. Maybe he's just like seeing

841
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: her flirt with other which that's based on and there

842
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: is that rufi scene. But also why would you send

843
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: like to chaperone someone like, you know, who's really going

844
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: to hold her accountable, her best friend in the world.

845
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: It was also like DTF, like crazy, It was like

846
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: the morning, let me about the horniest person she does.

847
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: This is gonna work out great. So yeah, I'm gonna

848
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 1: I'm gonna probably this is probably too low, but I'm

849
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 1: sticking with the two nipples, and I'm going to give

850
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: one to eat of mc gal's, one to Marilyn Monroe

851
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: and one to Jane Russell. Cool. Well, I guess I

852
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: I don't know what a five would be, and I

853
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: but I'm going to say four. Yeah, cool, I think

854
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna split the diff do with three, maybe three

855
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: and a half. I think that it's something we didn't

856
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 1: really karany you spoke to a few times. Was even

857
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: the way this movie is framed is a little bit

858
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: different and not how we're used to seeing. I mean, certainly,

859
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 1: Marilyn Monroe and Jane Russell are fully made up and

860
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: gorgeous this whole movie. The costumes are incredible, But the

861
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: male gaze. I feel like this movie is aware of

862
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: the male gaze and subverts it several times in a

863
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: way that is like really effective and interesting and definitely

864
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: not typical of the time. The whole ain't there anyone

865
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,439
Speaker 1: here for love? Scene that was like so cool and

866
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 1: um exciting and hopefully cathartic for Jane Russell, Um, who

867
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: is you know, for once not the center of you know,

868
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: she's controlling the camera and where the camera goes instead

869
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: of being pursued by it. And lor and Dorothy are

870
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: the only ones who kind of break the fourth wall

871
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: in the musical scenes, and it just I don't know,

872
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: they felt fully in control of the movie and generally

873
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 1: the story, and we're equipped to solve the problem is

874
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,919
Speaker 1: that they were sent to although of course you're you're

875
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,280
Speaker 1: totally right that they're sort of defined by their views

876
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: of men in the world. Um, so I'm gonna do.

877
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do three and a half and I'll give

878
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: two to Jane one in Maryland and half to Lady Beekman. Yeah,

879
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: she earned it. She worked hard. I'm getting I don't

880
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 1: know anything about it. Well, Corna, thank you so much

881
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: for being here, Thanks for having so much fun. Plug

882
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: whatever you want. Well. My book in which I read

883
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:35,240
Speaker 1: about this film and others made by Jane Russell Seduction, sex,

884
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: Lies and Stardom in Howard Hughes's Hollywood. It will be

885
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: in your local bookstore. It's great. I can't wait to

886
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 1: read it. Where can people fall you online? And oh

887
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Karina Longworth and you can find

888
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: my podcast. You must remember this on iTunes. Yeah, people

889
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: listen to it. It's so good, three years of listening strong.

890
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 1: Thank you. You can follow us on social media at

891
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. You can go to our patreonic a Matreon

892
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 1: and that's five dollars a month and we have to

893
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: bonus episodes for you every single month. What a gift,

894
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 1: What a treat O. Yes, um, yes, you can go

895
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: to our merch store t public dot com slash the

896
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast and you've got you know your favorites, feminist icon,

897
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: queer icon, feminist icon, Alfred Molina, all the designs you

898
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: could ever want, the stuff, So check that out and

899
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,720
Speaker 1: what hey, we'll talk to you next time. Thanks for listening,

900
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 1: to see you later by