Speaker 1: Thinking sideways. I don't you never know what story is
Speaker 1: of things. We simply don't know the answer to toy
Speaker 1: the idea in movie two thousand one resurrect dead on
Speaker 1: planet Jupiter um and and but it's a gas planet,
Speaker 1: and it's like, what's going on here? You're like Sherlock
Speaker 1: Holmes on a cocaine bender. No, You've got notes and
Speaker 1: hastily written notes every what is okay? Okay, you're a
Speaker 1: little too into this in your forehead. Just the thing
Speaker 1: is is that this is one of those mysteries that
Speaker 1: so many people have dealt into, and I feel like
Speaker 1: there's like a curse attached to it, like you just
Speaker 1: fall into it. It's like it never It's like Alice
Speaker 1: in the looking glass. It's just how many more metaphors
Speaker 1: can I come up? I really don't know. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: you just fall in and there's no you know, I
Speaker 1: I know. I was expressing to Steve earlier that I
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm really ready for this, just because
Speaker 1: there's so much information out there. It's been going on
Speaker 1: for so long you can't do anything about it. But
Speaker 1: I really want to talk about this one because it's
Speaker 1: like one of my favorite mysteries, and I feel like
Speaker 1: it's time, but I'm so sorry I can't make it through.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about you're gonna help me with us, because
Speaker 1: if we're going to solve it, I don't want to
Speaker 1: solve it. I really want to solve it. It's the thing, Okay.
Speaker 1: The thing about this mystery is that it seems like
Speaker 1: there's just an obvious answer, right. It's one of those
Speaker 1: ones where you like, you read through it and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm I'm like an idiot, Like I'm clearly
Speaker 1: I'm just not making the right connections, Like there should
Speaker 1: be a really simple answer at this, but there's just not. No. No,
Speaker 1: I can perspective there is a simple answer. Somebody's making
Speaker 1: these things and putting them out there, right, but who
Speaker 1: and why? And that's let's start the beginning. There are
Speaker 1: for dear friends who are listening today alright and don't
Speaker 1: know what's going on. Okay, so what's your This is, well,
Speaker 1: this is Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm so sorry everyone.
Speaker 1: My name is Devin, and I'm joined as always by
Speaker 1: and we're gonna go out of mystery. By now, you
Speaker 1: probably know we're going to do the toy be tiles.
Speaker 1: So these tiles, um they're sometimes called plaques started showing
Speaker 1: up maybe in the early nineteen eighties, definitely, people can
Speaker 1: pretty solidly recall in like three these things cropping up.
Speaker 1: But for sure there were recorded sightings in the early nineties.
Speaker 1: So theyve been around, what they've been around a while,
Speaker 1: happening a while, I should say happening I think, been
Speaker 1: around because it's often a lot of times they have
Speaker 1: been around for a while, but sometimes they haven't, and
Speaker 1: that's kind of well, you know, they could be one
Speaker 1: of them could be around for a long time before
Speaker 1: you even notice it. You know, the one that's over
Speaker 1: near my house, it's seventh in Hawthorne, which I went
Speaker 1: and looked at today that it actually is there. It's
Speaker 1: still there. Yeah, but I've been I've been driving over
Speaker 1: that thing and passed that thing forgot for years now,
Speaker 1: never even noticed because they you know, that's kind of
Speaker 1: part of it. They crop up in the middle of
Speaker 1: asphalt streets or sidewalks, but but more they crop up
Speaker 1: in the street kind of places where you don't necessarily
Speaker 1: see them. Um and by the way, yeah, and as
Speaker 1: it's because you know, as it's gotten more recent, it's
Speaker 1: kind of we we see them more in visible pedestrian spaces.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about this in a little bit. It's a
Speaker 1: big there's a distinction. Okay, most of them are are
Speaker 1: just this phrase to be idea in movie two thousand
Speaker 1: one resurrect dead on planet Jupiter. The most common variations
Speaker 1: you'll see are instead of in movie, it will say
Speaker 1: in Cubricks two thousand one, because he directed it the
Speaker 1: movie and I think he wrote it to things a
Speaker 1: little mysterious to me is this two thousand one resurrect
Speaker 1: down on Jupiter. I mean, in the movie they go
Speaker 1: to Jupiter, but they're not going there to resurrect the dead. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about this. There's so much to talk about
Speaker 1: with So officially we kind of consider anything that cropped up,
Speaker 1: not anything, but most of them that cropped up until
Speaker 1: about two thousand two to be old style or original tiles.
Speaker 1: And then since two thousand to a lot of um
Speaker 1: copycats have kind of cropped up. You know, the ones
Speaker 1: here are considered to be copycats UM, and that I
Speaker 1: think is due in part to the fact that forums
Speaker 1: got ahold of her some somehow realized how these were
Speaker 1: being done. And they posted on the Internet, so people
Speaker 1: who were toying be tile enthusiasts now knew how they
Speaker 1: were made, how to make them themselves. And we're kind
Speaker 1: of going out and copying and propagating the it becomes
Speaker 1: a movement. Yes, it makes sense. Yeah, street art absolutely.
Speaker 1: I'm actually thinking about creating one myself. I did in college. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did um in Illinois. Is it still there? I
Speaker 1: have no idea. He was never on Google street View.
Speaker 1: I guess we'll start by talking about how they're made,
Speaker 1: because that's the simplest thing to attack in this whole situation.
Speaker 1: It's the simplest thing to attack. And I understand that
Speaker 1: this is, you know, again propagating the mystery a little bit.
Speaker 1: You know, we're about to say to all of our
Speaker 1: millions of viewers or listeners, at least one percent of
Speaker 1: whom we're going to want to run right out totally.
Speaker 1: So now you'll know how to do it, not that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's not that you couldn't just google it before.
Speaker 1: So they're they're actually made of linoleum linolium tiles, just
Speaker 1: like you can buy at home depot um. The theory
Speaker 1: is and again, since you know that it's pretty easy
Speaker 1: to tell. You just carve out your message in the linoleum.
Speaker 1: And the older style ones, we're really colorful and kind
Speaker 1: of like look like mosaics and we'll we'll post pictures
Speaker 1: of these so you can kind of see. But they're
Speaker 1: really beautiful. Yeah, they're kind of. But so the older ones,
Speaker 1: I mean like they had like color the letters in.
Speaker 1: Now did they just lay lay the cut out lin
Speaker 1: only on top of another piece of material to get
Speaker 1: the color or did they actually cut out different colored pieces.
Speaker 1: So essentially what you do is you put down a
Speaker 1: piece of tar paper, which is what they use when
Speaker 1: you're reroofing when you put shingles on, and you can
Speaker 1: again you can just get it at home deepot or whatever.
Speaker 1: So you get a layer of tar paper, which they
Speaker 1: also used to patch cement and asphall cracks. Um. You
Speaker 1: lay that down and then you would cut out your
Speaker 1: basic outline so you're big, you're like main color of
Speaker 1: the tile, and then you cut out the little bits,
Speaker 1: carve out, carve out the letters and stick them in
Speaker 1: the holes um and then you put a bunch of
Speaker 1: Olmoer's glue on there and all over it. You just
Speaker 1: like it's like making a sandwich a little bit, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you just like smother your mayonnaise or jam or
Speaker 1: whatever it is in there, and then you use asphalt
Speaker 1: crack filler as well a little bit, and then you
Speaker 1: stick another layer of tar paper on there, and you've
Speaker 1: got yourself a little like sandwich packet. Well, and I
Speaker 1: think I think the answer Joe's question is, and it
Speaker 1: took me a while to figure this out. You're talking
Speaker 1: about the original ones were much more colorful. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: what somebody was doing was carving the letters out and
Speaker 1: making a negative space in the linoleum and then adding
Speaker 1: a positive and then cutting out another piece of linoleum
Speaker 1: that was the letter in laying in there to make
Speaker 1: the positive. It would be that hard. Actually, you could
Speaker 1: use it as a stencil, extremely time consumed. If you
Speaker 1: think about that, I carved the letter are, and then
Speaker 1: I've got to carve the letter are smaller and in
Speaker 1: relatively the same shape proportionately to fit in there. So
Speaker 1: if the leg or the curve is too big, i
Speaker 1: gotta go back and shave it down to get them
Speaker 1: all in there. And you know, the really interesting thing.
Speaker 1: The other thing that you kind of notice is as
Speaker 1: you start to look at the pictures of these tiles,
Speaker 1: you can kind of instinctively know if it's an original
Speaker 1: or copycat because there's really distinct handwriting that goes with
Speaker 1: the very obvious style. It's really really obvious, and it's
Speaker 1: really consistent. It's not like an amateur carver. And even
Speaker 1: and we'll get into this, there are these like original
Speaker 1: like trial runs that were found and you look at
Speaker 1: them and you're like, oh, that's the guy, Like that
Speaker 1: was made by the same person. And there's there's the screeds,
Speaker 1: which are just tons and tons of little writing that
Speaker 1: it's just so much and it's a very consistent style.
Speaker 1: So the style is the key, Yeah, it absolutely is.
Speaker 1: Um it's it's like a fingerprint. Yeah, I think I
Speaker 1: think that's true. And the guy, the guy who does
Speaker 1: a squeeze sounds like a little bit unbalanced. Well, so yeah,
Speaker 1: we call those man I'm in it, you guys, I'm
Speaker 1: in it. Those are called they're referred to most often
Speaker 1: as the manifesto tiles, and we'll talk about that but
Speaker 1: a little bit later. But so they've floated this theory
Speaker 1: that the person the tyler will refer to this person
Speaker 1: as the Tyler. You often see that kind of in
Speaker 1: the net sphere, the infosphere, and we don't actually, we
Speaker 1: don't have a verified name. Yeah, there's and and it's
Speaker 1: pretty widely accepted that it was just one person. So
Speaker 1: we'll just go ahead and throw that out there in
Speaker 1: the beginning. So there was this theory that the Tyler
Speaker 1: had a car that was missing a floorboard, so you
Speaker 1: would just you would drop your little sandwich packet and it
Speaker 1: it would go and then drive away. And the way
Speaker 1: when I did, it would know did you cut a
Speaker 1: hole in the bottom of your card? I didn't have.
Speaker 1: That's good. That's good. Okay. So it hits the ground.
Speaker 1: So it hits the ground, and then the heat of
Speaker 1: the tires driving over it, uh, kind of embeds it
Speaker 1: in the asphalt. It just like deep deep embeds it
Speaker 1: and then eventually wears the tar paper part away after
Speaker 1: all of the like tar and asphalt and glue have
Speaker 1: solidified into the been pushed around because they're they're they're
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a sticky liquid way to say it.
Speaker 1: So it gets pushed away from the base material totally
Speaker 1: on the top. Yeah, so it all gets embedded and
Speaker 1: then it'll wear a wait at the paper, so they
Speaker 1: just eventually kind of reveal themselves, which is really cool
Speaker 1: if you think about it, and really ingenious. Yeah, super
Speaker 1: super smart. Yeah, I think that I don't think that
Speaker 1: I would go to the lengths of cutting ahold the
Speaker 1: bottom of my car though. I think I just like
Speaker 1: roll down my window and drop it out that way.
Speaker 1: You have the thing about a car with a hole
Speaker 1: in the floorboard, is nobody plans to have that, but
Speaker 1: you end up with it because I hadn't. I had
Speaker 1: a car that I discovered had a hole in the
Speaker 1: floorboard once and I wasn't planning on habit it. But
Speaker 1: once I had it, I had it. So I don't
Speaker 1: know how how much I like this theory, to be
Speaker 1: totally honest with you. Um, there's a there's a dropping
Speaker 1: it through the floorboard thing. There's a documentary that we're
Speaker 1: going to like refer a lot to in this because
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the end all be all of
Speaker 1: information on the TONB tiles. It's called Resurrect Dead, and
Speaker 1: they talk a lot about this car as it refers
Speaker 1: to the person that they think is responsible for this.
Speaker 1: They find a car they did not, but they have
Speaker 1: descriptions of it, and it's a crazy well car. But
Speaker 1: I think, you know, in some instances that makes sense.
Speaker 1: But to say that that's how this person exclusively did that,
Speaker 1: I just don't think that's the case. I don't. I
Speaker 1: just don't. Can I can I break in here for
Speaker 1: a second, because this is the thing that we've We've
Speaker 1: had a couple of stories where there's been documentaries out
Speaker 1: there about him. I know the last one we did Hubert,
Speaker 1: there was a documentary that was done. And the thing
Speaker 1: that I always I want to bring bring up and
Speaker 1: and make people think about, is that when you watch
Speaker 1: a documentary, they have come to a conclusion typically of
Speaker 1: what the answer is gonna be, at least for the
Speaker 1: most part. So they're going to bring that stuff to
Speaker 1: the forefront. And it's a little frustrating to me at
Speaker 1: times because I don't always agree with it, and I
Speaker 1: don't always think the logic is sound, And I think
Speaker 1: that it's very easy for folks to go and let's say,
Speaker 1: watch this documentary and say, oh, well, that's the absolute answer.
Speaker 1: But I still see some holes and not that these
Speaker 1: guys didn't do a ton of leg work. They did,
Speaker 1: And again I think you know, if you watch this movie,
Speaker 1: you will get exactly the idea of what I was
Speaker 1: just talking about earlier, is you fall down this rabbit hole.
Speaker 1: And even you know, they're an instance where a guy
Speaker 1: comes in and he's like a total skeptic and he
Speaker 1: like doesn't totally he's not really into the idea, and
Speaker 1: by the end of it, he's like one of the
Speaker 1: only people who still like involved in the whole situation.
Speaker 1: But I think you just you don't. I think there
Speaker 1: is that feeling of thinking, well, there must just be
Speaker 1: this really simple answer it or just like that I'm
Speaker 1: just too stupid to see. And that's that's what drives
Speaker 1: me crazy sometimes when we see these documentaries, which are
Speaker 1: well made. I'm not going to knock on them, but
Speaker 1: then you start thinking about it after the facts. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: so I agenda is not the right word to use,
Speaker 1: but they have an agenda that they that they are
Speaker 1: putting forward and that's what they're going to support. But
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that that's the only or the absolute
Speaker 1: or correct answer, right right Anyway, I didn't mean to interrupt,
Speaker 1: but I just I had to say that because we've
Speaker 1: had this come up a couple of times. I agree, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think it's it's worth saying for sure. They
Speaker 1: the theory kind of commonly accepted knowledge is that there's
Speaker 1: about a hundred and fifty like old style tiles, originals
Speaker 1: originals essentially that people have have identified, and you know,
Speaker 1: there may be more that nobody's ever seen. They may
Speaker 1: have gotten destroyed before anybody ever had to see them,
Speaker 1: because they're getting well. And the thing of it that's
Speaker 1: really interesting is that it's it almost seems like it's
Speaker 1: a really big effort to pave over these things. There
Speaker 1: have been cities who like Chicago, for instance, which is
Speaker 1: where these majority of them started out at, right, Philadelphia, Philadelphia,
Speaker 1: you're right, but Chicago saw like two of them and
Speaker 1: they were like, Nope, this is a huge act of vandalism.
Speaker 1: We will do everything we can to pave over them
Speaker 1: and destroy them. When truly, I mean, it's not destroying
Speaker 1: the street. Like if I were a conspiracy theory not
Speaker 1: it would totally feed into my conspiracy theory because it's
Speaker 1: like a couple of tiles in the middle of the street.
Speaker 1: It's not like gang graffiti like written on the side
Speaker 1: of like some giant tourist trap or anything like that,
Speaker 1: and now the government suppressing it. Yeah, I mean a
Speaker 1: little bit. It's a lot of money to repay the street, Like,
Speaker 1: it cost a lot of money to even just repay
Speaker 1: a tiny little bit of street. And these are just
Speaker 1: like chilling in the middle of the street. They're not like,
Speaker 1: it's not a problem, see the infrastructure, you know, it's
Speaker 1: not dangerous. Well, they're just some little graffiti's but graffiti
Speaker 1: on a wall could be thought of the same way.
Speaker 1: Don't appreciate it because that's not what that surfaces intended for.
Speaker 1: I understand both sides just have to Yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: think that's totally fair, because I don't want to say
Speaker 1: this is like a conspiracy thing, because I listen to
Speaker 1: the show. You know, I'm not a conspiracy person, But
Speaker 1: I do want to say that the level that some
Speaker 1: cities have gone to to say we're getting rid of
Speaker 1: this stuff, it's it's a little crazy anyway. So there
Speaker 1: are three hundred like copycats so far that they seen
Speaker 1: um and we talked a little bit about what they
Speaker 1: look like. There's this group called the House of Hades,
Speaker 1: and they've been credited with at least a hundred of
Speaker 1: the copycats and they're the ones who are doing it
Speaker 1: in Portland, and the message is different. Often uh it
Speaker 1: often says something about House of Hades. There's also the
Speaker 1: Cult of the Hellian who are kind of the same
Speaker 1: thing as the House of Hades, and they're they're doing
Speaker 1: a lot of copycats as well. But it's just I mean,
Speaker 1: you could do it individually. The thing is is that
Speaker 1: to do it individually it costs a lot of money
Speaker 1: because you have to get a whole role of our paper, okay,
Speaker 1: and that's like fifty bucks of pop. And then you
Speaker 1: gotta get linoleum, and then you have to get a
Speaker 1: different color olium, and then you have to invest the
Speaker 1: time and energy to like carve it. Just to have
Speaker 1: said like, oh, I was like one tiny little part
Speaker 1: of this movement that somebody may never see, that's not
Speaker 1: something a lot of people do. So this guy, the
Speaker 1: guy the tyler must have been like in home construction.
Speaker 1: Just kidding, but actually that would make sense. So maybe
Speaker 1: although to do like a hundred and fifty of them, Well,
Speaker 1: but if you've got if you're working on jobs and
Speaker 1: you're just collecting scraps, yeah, that suddenly affords you this
Speaker 1: hobby at no cost your time. Yeah, or if you
Speaker 1: like have a lot of time to like walk around
Speaker 1: and just like pick up. Because you walk up to
Speaker 1: URF and you say, hey, man, can I have like
Speaker 1: a little piece of your tar paper? They're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's in the trash taking what they or they don't
Speaker 1: even notice or at late night and you go into
Speaker 1: a dumpster. Not a big deal. The well actually, and
Speaker 1: there's there are stores where you can actually buy you know,
Speaker 1: scraps of various things like this. There's one that's not
Speaker 1: very far away from here that has a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff like that. You can you can buy small leftover
Speaker 1: chunks of stuff like that because it's yeah, and they
Speaker 1: make they make a little money off the whole thing,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't go into the landfill. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: So this is um, this is what the House of
Speaker 1: Hades tiles kind of look like. I didn't ever get
Speaker 1: to connect and maybe that's just because I missed it.
Speaker 1: But is the House of Hades something to do with
Speaker 1: the original tiles or is it just some offshoot group
Speaker 1: that just picked it up and took it. No, it's
Speaker 1: a it's an offshoot group. And you can see they're
Speaker 1: very clearly made with will post pictures. Of course they're
Speaker 1: very clearly made with just like single tiles or double
Speaker 1: wide of like just a floor tile. They just went
Speaker 1: to like house deepot, home depot or something. And so
Speaker 1: this one reads, there's often do reads House of Hades.
Speaker 1: I make and glue tiles with the bones of dead journalists,
Speaker 1: which is a reference to what is referred to as
Speaker 1: the side tiles from the tiles and we'll talk about Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about these because it's um there are a
Speaker 1: lot of things that take this from being an art
Speaker 1: project to being legitimate somebody trying to get their message
Speaker 1: across the only way they can figure out how to
Speaker 1: do it. Um. So the House of Hades does tiles
Speaker 1: like that. It's just like to color is kind of
Speaker 1: a lot of work, but like not the most work
Speaker 1: as opposed to like this is one of the original
Speaker 1: tiles and it's multiple colors and beautiful so much really
Speaker 1: like a lot of work. And you can even see
Speaker 1: while the House of Hades tries to emulate the way
Speaker 1: that the handwriting is I'm going to call it handwriting,
Speaker 1: it's it's still not quite the same. It's for me
Speaker 1: when I see this text done because of how consistent
Speaker 1: it is. I'm surprised that I have never come across
Speaker 1: a toy be font. To be quite honest, I'm surprised
Speaker 1: nobody has turned this into a font because it is
Speaker 1: so consistent. You look at the d's, the a's, the
Speaker 1: t are these things john very precisely East Tide. I
Speaker 1: would guess that if I didn't know better, I would
Speaker 1: say that somebody had to die to stamp these things
Speaker 1: out with. Maybe night that might have made a stencil
Speaker 1: set that very well could be. Yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: actually that's that suggests an idea. I think that since
Speaker 1: this is not copyrighted, nobody else it, why don't we
Speaker 1: invent that fonte a lot of money? You know, No,
Speaker 1: I don't because I made before, and trust me, you
Speaker 1: don't want to do it, and I don't want to
Speaker 1: make money off of anything tany be related all. I
Speaker 1: just don't. So, so I guess like mystery solved, right,
Speaker 1: It was like one guy just like dropping some tiles
Speaker 1: in between. We don't know who it is, but whatever, Okay,
Speaker 1: just kidding, So Joe, I know this was your question,
Speaker 1: is what do they mean? Because they think taken at
Speaker 1: face value, it's just like a weird note, right, Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: So Toynbee was like this, there were a couple of
Speaker 1: different people that it might have referred to, and two
Speaker 1: thousand one of Space Odyssey. It's just like a Stanley
Speaker 1: Hurick film, and like there's nothing really about resurrecting the
Speaker 1: dead jupe Her and Jupiter, Like what a weird place.
Speaker 1: It's just a gas planet there. Yeah, it's weird. So
Speaker 1: so you know, actually, um, I'm reminded. This reminds me
Speaker 1: of what is the word for those puzzles where you
Speaker 1: take a bunch of words and you take the letgers
Speaker 1: of those words and rearrange them. Okay, grammatically, okay, So
Speaker 1: this looks to me like an anagram. It looks like
Speaker 1: somebody has taken some words and rearrange the letters into
Speaker 1: these sort of meaningless phrases. So that's really interesting. And
Speaker 1: that's actually not a theory that I've seen I have before. Really, Yes,
Speaker 1: I've read stuff that Toynbee can be rearranged into I
Speaker 1: think teen Boy, and they've gone people have gone through
Speaker 1: and taken everything in it and rearranged it to make
Speaker 1: different And there's multiple variances on the messages that don't
Speaker 1: make any more sense. Well, so there they can do it.
Speaker 1: This is the thing that I want to say. The
Speaker 1: other thing I want to say about this is that
Speaker 1: there I hesitate to say wrong answers, but there are
Speaker 1: so many wrong answers out there about the Twin be Tiles.
Speaker 1: They're just are I mean, you know, people are like,
Speaker 1: we was aliens, No it wasn't. Well it's a Soviet conspiracy. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean maybe it might have been, you know, oh
Speaker 1: it was just a journalist. Oh, it's just some dudes
Speaker 1: art project. And there are just so many answers that
Speaker 1: are really they feed into the conspiracy theory aspect um.
Speaker 1: They're just crazy talk. I mean, there are so many weird,
Speaker 1: wrong answers, and I would put the kind of anagram
Speaker 1: theory into in my mind a wrong answer, if only
Speaker 1: because you can only really rearrange one line to make
Speaker 1: more sense than it makes. Right. Now, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make any more sense to be teen boy. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: exactly what it could be though that it's not not
Speaker 1: a word by a word thing. So in other words,
Speaker 1: the letters that go into toy B, which could be
Speaker 1: re arranged to be team boy, might form be mixed
Speaker 1: together with letters from other words in this phrase to
Speaker 1: make good other words. But but when they're done, and
Speaker 1: I think this is one of the things that people
Speaker 1: grab onto each line when you see them on the
Speaker 1: different tiles, sometimes they're they're very blocked. So two words,
Speaker 1: three words, two words, three words. Um, it's not like
Speaker 1: a high coup, but it's very organized in that manner,
Speaker 1: and so it makes one think that, Okay, well, if
Speaker 1: I'm going to rearrange this, then I have to do
Speaker 1: it a line by line because they're always written the
Speaker 1: same way. It's never Toynbee idea in toy be idea,
Speaker 1: and you know, you see where I'm heading with this.
Speaker 1: They never they never get interjected into a different line.
Speaker 1: So then it would be a little strange to say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you can mix and match them across the whole thing,
Speaker 1: because it's it's just distinctly and when they're done in
Speaker 1: the colors, the colors sometimes are done in blocks, so
Speaker 1: toin the idea, the outside frame of it is one color.
Speaker 1: In movie two thousand one is in another color, so
Speaker 1: they're very distinctly blocked out. It's very organized and methodical
Speaker 1: that way. So that's why I don't know that it
Speaker 1: could be an anagram where you just take all the
Speaker 1: letters in this and make a whole new statement from anywhere.
Speaker 1: Take the J from Jupiter and it goes into the
Speaker 1: first line that I have a hard time following. That. Also,
Speaker 1: we can make sense out of this somewhat, I mean
Speaker 1: a little bit. I think, Um. Actually, you know, as
Speaker 1: we said, there's documentaries and they decide, well, it's just this,
Speaker 1: and but I think that there's some really strong evidence
Speaker 1: for this kind of following the same kind of thread. Um,
Speaker 1: so we'll just kind of jump into it. The people
Speaker 1: generally feel and I feel that this is true, is
Speaker 1: that Toynbee refers to Arnold Toynbee, who was a kind
Speaker 1: of general historian of human existence, one of those historians
Speaker 1: that don't really exist anymore. He was just like, oh humans, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's talk about all of it. And it was a
Speaker 1: little volume set. Yeah, and it was and it was
Speaker 1: really philosophical as well as historic. Well, and that was
Speaker 1: the writing of the time totally. So he wrote this
Speaker 1: book called Experiences and there's a really long quote from it. Joe,
Speaker 1: can you read this, because I think you probably better
Speaker 1: and kept encapsulate Arnold Toynbee how to read. That's true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so take it away. No one has ever been or
Speaker 1: ever met a living human soul without a body. Someone
Speaker 1: who accepts as I myself do, taking it on trust,
Speaker 1: the present day scientific account of the universe may find
Speaker 1: it impossible to believe that a living creature, once dead,
Speaker 1: can come to life again. And this this is jumping
Speaker 1: a little bit ahead, but there were these media packets
Speaker 1: that were circulated that were attributed to the Tyler with
Speaker 1: this group that he's associated with called the Minority Alliance,
Speaker 1: which we're not even going to get into. And this
Speaker 1: is pre the Tiles. This is pre the Tiles. And
Speaker 1: this is one of those things that if you're really
Speaker 1: interested in this mystery, you should go out and research this.
Speaker 1: But I just don't think there's value in us sitting
Speaker 1: here and talking about it. For there's a there's so
Speaker 1: much information, So I think I think what I think
Speaker 1: what you're getting at is we're trying to give kind
Speaker 1: of the surface overview. Otherwise this would be a four
Speaker 1: hour episode more than because we can dive in, as
Speaker 1: you said, and we'll go down that and have to
Speaker 1: come back out and go down and this yeah, I
Speaker 1: had to stop reading on this. So anyways, there's a
Speaker 1: early account of the like pre tile formation of this
Speaker 1: kind of Toynbee idea situation attributed to this group called
Speaker 1: the Minority Association. Will maybe get a little bit into
Speaker 1: that a little bit later, but for now, just I
Speaker 1: just believe me. It is the thing. And they circulated
Speaker 1: these kind of media packets which we're only able to
Speaker 1: be tracked down from one person um, but they had
Speaker 1: this quote. It had a more expansive version of this
Speaker 1: quote in it. So okay, so pause on that idea
Speaker 1: for a second. Next idea two one. You know in
Speaker 1: movie two thousand one, right, so at the at the
Speaker 1: end of that movie, you guys remember it, right, this movie.
Speaker 1: I did not get this movie. Yes, we talked about
Speaker 1: it when I watched it for the first time ever,
Speaker 1: because I just recently watched it. I don't get that movie.
Speaker 1: So at the end, the protagonist like sees himself dying
Speaker 1: and then suddenly he's like he's dying and then there's
Speaker 1: this light and he's like a fetus and an embryo
Speaker 1: again like a baby, and he like floats off into
Speaker 1: space and it's like super weird. A lot of people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: people kind of refer to this as like a proto
Speaker 1: religious like ending to a movie, or a protoo religious
Speaker 1: experience of watching this movie. For instance. Well, I never
Speaker 1: really got that whole baby thing if that was him
Speaker 1: or if that was just representing the rebirth of the
Speaker 1: human race. I've heard that it's a metaphor of you know,
Speaker 1: he it was he was found by aliens when he
Speaker 1: went through the wormhole for lack of a better better term,
Speaker 1: and then they didn't know what to do with him.
Speaker 1: And then when they died, they figured out how to
Speaker 1: bring it back, and they figured out how to get
Speaker 1: him back where he'd come from. So then they were
Speaker 1: taking him back to Earth. And it's like, wow, how
Speaker 1: did you draw that conclusion? Yea, my understanding of the
Speaker 1: whole thing, And because I read the book as well
Speaker 1: as saw the movie and that did even that didn't
Speaker 1: make the whole baby in the sky thing any more
Speaker 1: comprehensible than But yeah, he goes through the sky. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he does go through some worms, and he winds up
Speaker 1: in this in this place of aliens who he never sees.
Speaker 1: By the way, they and they've actually built a room
Speaker 1: form actually a series of rooms like a nice little
Speaker 1: apartment for him, just and and nothing actually works as advertised,
Speaker 1: like the doors don't open, the drawers and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: but it looks just like a normal, nice, nice quality
Speaker 1: apartment or something like that. And apparently he lives out
Speaker 1: the rest of his days there in captivity with the aliens. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so so okay, so let's um just trust some
Speaker 1: people on an interpretation of the end of this movie,
Speaker 1: because I think we all can kind that, Like I
Speaker 1: can watch that a million times and still be like,
Speaker 1: I have no idea. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: there are some kind of especially taken in contact with
Speaker 1: the Toynbee tiles and the toy Bee kind of phies
Speaker 1: sort of situations. So if you merge these two things
Speaker 1: together and add a little bit of Christian flavor of
Speaker 1: our own, which is definitely referred to in the manifesto
Speaker 1: and often the side tiles kind of heaven idea, we
Speaker 1: can kind of think of what happened at the end
Speaker 1: of two thousand one as being human and science, or
Speaker 1: maybe alien and science resurrection or reanimation of human molecules
Speaker 1: as whole humans in space, therefore creating heaven and space,
Speaker 1: fulfilling God's like quote unquote promise to resurrect dead people
Speaker 1: after heaven in heaven. Right, So so we would do
Speaker 1: that through we would fulfill his promise as humans through
Speaker 1: science which he gave us. Okay, these are all like,
Speaker 1: this is like the train of thought. We're following through
Speaker 1: that train of thought, the Toynbee resurrection, once dead can
Speaker 1: come alive again a human without a soul, without a
Speaker 1: body two thousand one curate kind of saying, oh, well,
Speaker 1: obviously we're going to resurrect ourselves in space in Jupiter,
Speaker 1: which is where they went. It was Project Jupiter in
Speaker 1: two thousand one. So maybe the movie is about humans
Speaker 1: being resurrected in Jupiter, which is you know, if you just, like,
Speaker 1: according to some documents that have been procured, um, if
Speaker 1: you would just you know, like put an oxygen bomb
Speaker 1: on Jupiter, it would turn into a totally human hospitable environment. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: obviously that's a problem. But that Jupiter would become heaven
Speaker 1: in space and we would be able to resurrect are
Speaker 1: dead there and that would be heaven. It's a heck
Speaker 1: of a son that, Yeah, that would be Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know I don't remember what the gravity is
Speaker 1: on Jupiter, but it's staggeringly higher than ours is. So yeah,
Speaker 1: the theory is the visibility is terrible. But I did
Speaker 1: think it was interesting to think about. And this is
Speaker 1: something that's been discovered since this whole like two doesn't
Speaker 1: want everything, is that it turns out that one of
Speaker 1: Jupiter's moons may actually be a fairly viable terraforming place.
Speaker 1: And I could be misremembering this, but it's like almost
Speaker 1: an ice planet, and they think that there's actually like
Speaker 1: surface underneath there. So it's got a lot of water
Speaker 1: and it's like a surface, so like if we could
Speaker 1: just dry it out a little bit, I don't think
Speaker 1: the Yeah, I mean, it's never gonna be habitable with
Speaker 1: an atmosphere, and the only the only planet really we
Speaker 1: have any chance of terraforming could be Mars. It's it's
Speaker 1: because they because it's covered in ice, they can tell
Speaker 1: that there's some They believe that there's some kind of
Speaker 1: either tectonic or tidal forces being exerted on the planet
Speaker 1: because of the way that the ice moves and cracks
Speaker 1: and breaks, and they believe that it's liquid underneath, and
Speaker 1: so it's some more, it's just so much of terraforming
Speaker 1: as it's plausible to actually have life on it. It's
Speaker 1: in the fluid or water underneath this ice. Plus uh
Speaker 1: you know. The other thing of note and interest about
Speaker 1: it is it might might make a really nice little resource.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you have space qualities out there, it's
Speaker 1: full of water, methane, whatever, those are highly useful things. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: probably so. I you know, I guess that was my
Speaker 1: own little interesting tidbit that like, okay, Jupiter, probably not
Speaker 1: like but something really close to Jupiter maybe probably not again,
Speaker 1: but who knows. You know, it's only been like what
Speaker 1: forty years since fifty years since uh two one came out,
Speaker 1: it's been it came out in years, So in that
Speaker 1: amount of time we've done incredible things. So who's to say,
Speaker 1: you know, another forty five years another whatever, we wouldn't
Speaker 1: be like, oh no, obviously we're going to colonize europea
Speaker 1: like duh, or it was Mars all along, you know,
Speaker 1: who knows? Who knows? So we're good with kind of
Speaker 1: what it might mean, right, I mean, I guess I'm
Speaker 1: not good with it, but I can understand. I mean,
Speaker 1: the better theory, No, no, I don't have a theory.
Speaker 1: I think that this one. The theories are kind of
Speaker 1: far fetched, at least from my perspective, okay, but the
Speaker 1: message is so vague that the far fetched idea is
Speaker 1: the closest to being plausible. So when I say I'm
Speaker 1: not okay with it, it's just because it doesn't make
Speaker 1: sense to me. The whole thing still is just really
Speaker 1: really odd to me. It really, you're right, does make
Speaker 1: no sense. I mean, this message makes no sense, and
Speaker 1: let's just some sort of a code. Yeah, So I guess, um,
Speaker 1: I think that this interpretation, when you can kind of
Speaker 1: take it in with this overarching idea of who may
Speaker 1: have done them and felt, yeah, I guess in the context,
Speaker 1: makes some sense. You know, there's these side tiles that
Speaker 1: crop ups. You see these pictures, It's like a license
Speaker 1: plate sized tile that has the like four lines the
Speaker 1: toy idea in two thousand one space or not two
Speaker 1: s in cubics, or a movie two thousand one resurrected
Speaker 1: on planet Jupiter. And then there are these like little
Speaker 1: side messages and they are often I think, more interesting,
Speaker 1: You're more informative. It's super repetitive. Okay, So like here's
Speaker 1: a picture of like one of the original ones, and
Speaker 1: we can see if we can see the what are
Speaker 1: you doing kind of looking at it from different angle?
Speaker 1: That's why I'm turning my head like this, because I'm
Speaker 1: trying to I'm just trying to see if there's perhaps
Speaker 1: something that we're missing. Maybe it's a draw exactly what,
Speaker 1: because you feel like it's like it's one of those
Speaker 1: mysteries where you feel like the answer is on the
Speaker 1: tip of your brain, right, It's like there's an obvious
Speaker 1: answer here that we are just too dumb to see.
Speaker 1: Don't you feel that way right now? Do you remember
Speaker 1: in the nineties when those those images were being everybody
Speaker 1: was selling and it was just a super fine print
Speaker 1: of some repetitive pattern, and you were supposed to stare
Speaker 1: at it for about five minutes and the real image
Speaker 1: would hop forward. Ye see it, because the way it was,
Speaker 1: I think, I think that's where Joe might be heading here.
Speaker 1: I still figured out, yeah, but I don't see the schooner.
Speaker 1: But this phenomena is exactly what I'm talking about. When
Speaker 1: you like start to get into this, you just keep thinking, well,
Speaker 1: there's got to be something that somebody missed or we're
Speaker 1: just like overlooking the obvious answer. That's not. Yeah, there isn't.
Speaker 1: I mean, I suppose that you could say, is that
Speaker 1: if you look at the wide outline part, but it
Speaker 1: almost looks like it's sort of a crude drawing of
Speaker 1: a zigaratte. And I don't know if you and you've
Speaker 1: heard the story, of course about the Tower of Babel,
Speaker 1: which really wasn't a tower at all. It was a
Speaker 1: cigarette yea, and a cigarette is zigarette is like a
Speaker 1: sort of like like flattened pyramids popular ancient civilizations in
Speaker 1: the Middle East. You know, the Tower of Babble was
Speaker 1: basically about the collapse of a civilization. Um and to
Speaker 1: one of recurring themes, was spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: thinking about and writing about how civilizations collapse and why
Speaker 1: the why civilizations parish, you know, why they flourished for
Speaker 1: a while and then eventually they crumble and they go away. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's a long shot. I know, it's got as much
Speaker 1: validity as anything else that we've come across here so far,
Speaker 1: so I'm I'm willing to back it. That's a message
Speaker 1: about Babel. Can you understand the message now? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course not we're going to crumble. So okay, side
Speaker 1: texts is where we were starting before I got off
Speaker 1: on my little tangent there. Sorry about that again. You know,
Speaker 1: they're they're pretty interesting, um, and a lot of the
Speaker 1: old original tiles, the old style tiles are pretty destroyed
Speaker 1: at this point. I mean, Lilyam isn't the most durable
Speaker 1: when they're in the middle of the street, and when
Speaker 1: cities are like really actively trying to cover them up. Well,
Speaker 1: let's even talk about I mean, you see some of
Speaker 1: the photos and you can tell that the main exterior,
Speaker 1: your piece of linolium has worn or been pulled away,
Speaker 1: and all this left are the letters and then they
Speaker 1: start moving on that that tar substrate and suddenly it
Speaker 1: looks like alphabet soup because they're all just jammed together
Speaker 1: and it's unreadable. So yeah, these things, I'm guessing what
Speaker 1: they have a two year three year life show, well
Speaker 1: at the best. So I guess that's kind of part
Speaker 1: of it is that there are some that are in
Speaker 1: like Philly Philadelphia that have been around since the eighties.
Speaker 1: Probably depends on the amount of traffic they they're not. Um,
Speaker 1: Philadelphia isn't actively trying to pave over them. And Philadelphia
Speaker 1: is one of those places where they don't pave a
Speaker 1: lot have money for they don't really have that. So
Speaker 1: and Philadelphia is the epicenter of these It is I
Speaker 1: think accepted at this point. I would say pretty much
Speaker 1: everybody agrees that the Tyler lived in Philadelphia. And probably yeah,
Speaker 1: and we'll talk a little bit, isn't Bruce Willis from Philadelphia? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we solved it. Yeah, so okay, Chile hard Um.
Speaker 1: So there are these little side guys. So, like one
Speaker 1: of them says, and this is like a really destroyed tile, um,
Speaker 1: but somehow the sidebar has stuck around more than the tile.
Speaker 1: This one says, I'm only one man. When I got
Speaker 1: a fatal disease, they gloated, enjoy over its death. It's death. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So another one says you must make in glue tiles
Speaker 1: you as media is and there's like a missing chunk,
Speaker 1: and then it says you must make in glue tile
Speaker 1: you must as media ussa. And then another one, which
Speaker 1: is really interesting, it says, I'm only one man, and
Speaker 1: when I caught a fatal disease, they gloated over its death.
Speaker 1: That's when I it's broken up. They I think it's
Speaker 1: begged them not to destroy thank you and something because
Speaker 1: it's again it's it's just it's like that, it's just like,
Speaker 1: come off the Yeah, these side tiles are just really
Speaker 1: really interesting. Um well, it seems like the side tiles
Speaker 1: are where the personality of the tyler actually comes through
Speaker 1: paroid personality. So yeah, so the side tiles and then
Speaker 1: particularly the what they call the manifesto tile are what
Speaker 1: for me makes this a real thing because I think
Speaker 1: it's very easy to look at these tiles and say, oh,
Speaker 1: this is someone's art project, right is it was the
Speaker 1: early eighties too, Like early odds, there's a time when
Speaker 1: a lot of people are doing experimental surrealist art. All right,
Speaker 1: So it's just somebody who's like got an art project
Speaker 1: going on. They've got some kind of nonsense phrase that
Speaker 1: they're just regurgitating over and over again. Let's say that
Speaker 1: they're putting down knowing that people who got a puzzle
Speaker 1: overord for totally for years. Yeah. So the manifesto, you
Speaker 1: guys have both seen that it's a set of four
Speaker 1: linoleum tiles and it has hundreds of words on it.
Speaker 1: And I have a transcript of what it says um,
Speaker 1: but it's really paranoid, and I think it's worth hearing.
Speaker 1: So Steve, Yeah, I can run this. Not that I'm
Speaker 1: the paranoid of the group. Well you might be, though,
Speaker 1: No I'm not. Stop looking, No I'm not. Really. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's let's go ahead and do this. So John Knight,
Speaker 1: owner of the Philadelphia Inquired Hell you and Jew, who's
Speaker 1: hated this movement's guts for years, takes money from the
Speaker 1: mafia to make the mafia look good in his newspapers,
Speaker 1: so he has the mafia in his back pocket. John
Speaker 1: Knight sent the mafia to murder me in May. There's
Speaker 1: an unreadable bit. Journalists, all of them gloated in my
Speaker 1: face about my death and night ritters great power to destroy.
Speaker 1: In fact, John Knight went into helly and binge of
Speaker 1: joy over Night Ritters great power to destroy. I secured
Speaker 1: house with blast doors and fled the country. In June,
Speaker 1: NBC attorneys, journalists, and security officials at Rockefeller Center fraudulently
Speaker 1: something has disappeared Under the Freedom of Information Act. All
Speaker 1: orders of NBC executives got the US Federal District Attorney's
Speaker 1: opposite office, and I got the FBI to get interpolled
Speaker 1: to establish task force that located me in Dover, England,
Speaker 1: when back Home, Inquirer got union goons from their own
Speaker 1: employer union to send out a sports journalists who with
Speaker 1: baseball bat bashed in lights and windows of neighborhood cars
Speaker 1: as well as men outside my house. They stationed there
Speaker 1: still waiting for me. NBC, CBS, Group, W, Westinghouse, Time, Time, Warner, Fox, Universal,
Speaker 1: all of the Cult of the Hellion each were much
Speaker 1: worse than night Ridder ever, was mostly Hellion Jews. When
Speaker 1: k y W and n By, NBC executives told John Knight,
Speaker 1: the whole coven gloated on how their Soviet pals had
Speaker 1: found a way to turn it into a that's a
Speaker 1: little bit paranoid and that's that's that's that's that's a screen.
Speaker 1: That's not a manifesto to me, that's a screen that's
Speaker 1: definitely paranoise. Well what did that? What did that appear?
Speaker 1: It was discovered in seven and I think it looked
Speaker 1: like it was a little aged aged. So this it's
Speaker 1: it's had it had been about let's just say twelve,
Speaker 1: the fifteen years before from the originals to when this
Speaker 1: happened I'm I'm encapsulating start to win that one totally. Um. Yes.
Speaker 1: So And the other thing that strikes me about this
Speaker 1: is that, like you know, you're talking how the handwriting
Speaker 1: looks really really like the handwriting is really consistent throughout
Speaker 1: all of the original like old style and hand writing,
Speaker 1: and this is also super consistent. But this is not
Speaker 1: a planned This is not something that somebody writes and
Speaker 1: then reads and it's like yeah that reads well, this
Speaker 1: is something that somebody like scribbles out this carson as
Speaker 1: they go with carving as they went. Totally um. And
Speaker 1: handwriting is still like really consistent, and it's so paranoid.
Speaker 1: And this is on what I look at in the pictures.
Speaker 1: It looks like it's it's for one foot square tie els.
Speaker 1: Would that be pretty close to accurate? Yeah? So they're
Speaker 1: like a standard um like a linoleum tiles by eight
Speaker 1: or twelve twelve something like that. So I mean it's this,
Speaker 1: all of that text is in a sixteen by sixteen
Speaker 1: or twenty four by twenty four inch square area and
Speaker 1: it's actually it turns out legible, yeah, totally legible. And
Speaker 1: this is where in Philadelphia. Yeah. So the the other
Speaker 1: really interesting thing about this whole situation is that in
Speaker 1: ninety three there was a small little article published in
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Inquirer about the ideas of the Minority Association
Speaker 1: and the Toynbee idea to resurrect Dead on Jupiter ideas resurrected. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so this whole like the idea, right, Toybee idea here
Speaker 1: space odyssey, this has been propagated ostensibly for a while before.
Speaker 1: And there was an article written in the Inquirer that
Speaker 1: was a reference to Philadelphia based campaign to resurrect Dead
Speaker 1: on Jupiter that didn't ever, it didn't reference the tiles,
Speaker 1: but it may have been pre tiles um and all
Speaker 1: of the ideas that were spoken about in this article
Speaker 1: in the Inquirer, which they referenced in the manifesto. Tiles
Speaker 1: pretty frequently are there. That's odd. So I don't know
Speaker 1: how the article talked about this idea to resurrected it,
Speaker 1: but it didn't actually mentions. Okay, so the article again
Speaker 1: it's this like little, this little tidbit of prehistory, and
Speaker 1: the only place I've ever heard of it is in
Speaker 1: this documentary and in this group that did this research
Speaker 1: for this documentary. In the like prehistory of the tiles
Speaker 1: in the Minority Association Umn. They went deep down the
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. Again. I will direct you to said documentary.
Speaker 1: If you're really interested in this, be aware that your
Speaker 1: life will be sucked in. You may. But they found
Speaker 1: this article in the Inquirer, and I think it was
Speaker 1: titled you want to run that by me? Again? Yes,
Speaker 1: it had this interview, not interview, but it had this
Speaker 1: information from a guy who had written in from He
Speaker 1: claimed to be from the Minority Association. Uh. And he
Speaker 1: said his name was Joe Morocco, Morosco, Morosco, James Morosco,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and he was part of this group called
Speaker 1: the Minority Association and they were working on a campaign
Speaker 1: to resurrect dead people on planet Jupiter. And it was
Speaker 1: like a four paragraph long maybe at the most article.
Speaker 1: It wasn't real big. But the fact that the manifesto
Speaker 1: like kind of schizoid like ramblings of a crazy person
Speaker 1: talk about the Inquirer that much is very interesting to me,
Speaker 1: because is um as far as I understand it, those
Speaker 1: that wasn't made public, like they didn't make the archives
Speaker 1: public until early two thousand's and I could be wrong
Speaker 1: about that, but that's just as far as I know.
Speaker 1: So that's interesting to me. That's an interesting little like pin.
Speaker 1: I don't have a good answer. I don't have a
Speaker 1: good reason. Yeah, except that they may be the same person. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know that that one's a I know that
Speaker 1: in the documentary that is a giant leap for them.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I'm not. Yeah, I'm not so convinced.
Speaker 1: But that's just because this thing is so fragmented. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is really fragmented. And you know, when you try
Speaker 1: to make sense out of something like this, you have
Speaker 1: to accept the fact also that it sounds like whoever
Speaker 1: created these things was probably mentally imbalanced. So trying to
Speaker 1: make sense out of insanity can can really kind of
Speaker 1: drive you insane. Yeah. Maybe. Well, and the other the
Speaker 1: other dangerous part about and we've I know, all three
Speaker 1: of us have fallen in this. When researching something is
Speaker 1: we see, let's say, a hint of a name, and
Speaker 1: we and I'm simplifying this greatly, but we get a
Speaker 1: name in our head of how it should be spelled,
Speaker 1: and so we are madly researching that spelling of that name,
Speaker 1: not taking into consideration that Moroscoe could be spelled differently
Speaker 1: because in the movie they make a point there's one
Speaker 1: guy named James Morosco in the area that they can find,
Speaker 1: and he's nowhere near where he's supposed to be. But
Speaker 1: then you go and you think, well, they keep spelling
Speaker 1: it one way. Well, I can think of when I
Speaker 1: looked at the name, about three or four different ways
Speaker 1: that I could perceive that being spelled. So then what
Speaker 1: happens and then it branches out and it gets even harder,
Speaker 1: particularly if it was like a phone interview, and I
Speaker 1: don't know that that was ever specified. And again this
Speaker 1: is this this kind of like pre tile situation that
Speaker 1: I don't I really don't think we should go too
Speaker 1: far into. I think we're already going there. We have
Speaker 1: been a little bit. So I guess the only place
Speaker 1: that this leaves us is to talk about who may
Speaker 1: have done this right, who this person might be according
Speaker 1: to that manifesto. Maybe so I guess there are three
Speaker 1: kind of good suspects that they talk about, and they
Speaker 1: talk about this in the documentary, but they also like
Speaker 1: just wide why it's widely accepted that these are kind
Speaker 1: of the three main people. One is called Railroad Joe.
Speaker 1: One is James Moresco, and one is a man by
Speaker 1: the name of Sevy Verna. So why should we believe
Speaker 1: that any of these guys did it. Well, we'll get
Speaker 1: into that in like literally right now, Okay, perfect alright,
Speaker 1: railroad Joe. Okay. I guess I should preface this all
Speaker 1: by saying there was a tile found in South America
Speaker 1: and it was the first and only accepted original or
Speaker 1: old style tile to have been found outside of the US. Okay,
Speaker 1: and it had a po box and a street address
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, which then everybody's lashed onto, yes to find
Speaker 1: their point of origin, because I mean it makes sense, right, Like, Okay, yes,
Speaker 1: we're dealing with potentially a mentally unhinged person. But why
Speaker 1: would somebody write down just like a random street address
Speaker 1: in Philadelphia and leave it in South America attached to
Speaker 1: this idea unless they wanted people to pay attention to
Speaker 1: that street address. Well, but I wanted to harass the
Speaker 1: person I was about to say, unless they consider the
Speaker 1: person that's there to be an enemy of some kind,
Speaker 1: and then this is a great way to get revenge.
Speaker 1: That's true, South America. Traveling all the way to South
Speaker 1: America to do that it's not that's a little weird.
Speaker 1: It's a little weird. Well, but you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: stranger things have happened. But I'm just saying, and again,
Speaker 1: this is one of those things, Okay, but we're always
Speaker 1: looking at it as at face value. This is truthful
Speaker 1: in terms of I put this down so you'll find me,
Speaker 1: instead of subterfuge. I'm gonna put this down so you
Speaker 1: don't find me. But now you're gonna bug the heck
Speaker 1: out of this guy who has been my mortal enemy.
Speaker 1: So yes, my counter to that is that if you
Speaker 1: walk in within like a three block radius of this place,
Speaker 1: you find these little trial runs of the tiles. They're
Speaker 1: just little like bits of linoleum or kind of like nonsense,
Speaker 1: just letter engravings that are embedded in the asphalt. They're tiny,
Speaker 1: they're little scraps, they're cast offs, both in the three
Speaker 1: block radius of this one apartment. And yeah, of course,
Speaker 1: if you that's the greatest form of misdirection is to
Speaker 1: name the suspect and then start dropping clues around or
Speaker 1: evidence around that suspect. That's true. I'm not buying into that,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to take the skeptic standpoint on this
Speaker 1: and say, if we're gonna run, if I'm going to
Speaker 1: run with the I did this to get that guy,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. Well, you know what, It's really easy.
Speaker 1: Once a month, I go to his neighborhood and just
Speaker 1: drop some of my scrap garbage that I've been making
Speaker 1: these with and just walk away. Yeah, and looking they're
Speaker 1: all knugging at his door. That's awesome. That's totally true.
Speaker 1: I think that's a great point to bring up, because
Speaker 1: I think that's a point that's not brought up enough. However,
Speaker 1: since I'm presenting this history, I have to take the
Speaker 1: totally believers to okay. So um, there's been a lot
Speaker 1: of research done in this area, and as far as
Speaker 1: any and he can remember, there's only been to people
Speaker 1: who ever lived in this this at this address. One
Speaker 1: was railroad Joe. That's what they call him. I don't
Speaker 1: remember his whole name. I don't think it's super important.
Speaker 1: That was what everybody called. Everybody calls him railroad Joe
Speaker 1: because he worked on a railroad. Out on a railroad.
Speaker 1: It's a tongue twister for me, I'm sorry, on conway
Speaker 1: rail or conrail. So one of the things they talked
Speaker 1: about with this guy is that they do some familial
Speaker 1: research on him, and his family were gravestone engravers. So
Speaker 1: that's a let's look pretty easy to make, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody handwriting and totally be a quick carver. Right, It's
Speaker 1: not like this would be taking new days to do
Speaker 1: because you might be great at it might just take
Speaker 1: you an hour or two or maybe less. Also, Conrail
Speaker 1: at the time that this man was working for Conrail, Uh,
Speaker 1: their railway lines perfectly mirrored the spread of where the
Speaker 1: original tiles have all been found, so all of the
Speaker 1: major city. Okay, but wait, no, that's not true. Act,
Speaker 1: so it only goes as far south as Conrail went.
Speaker 1: It only goes as far west as Conrail went, and
Speaker 1: it stopped in every single major city which major city, okay,
Speaker 1: major city. However, in the same in the same time
Speaker 1: that he was working for this rail system, there's an
Speaker 1: article to prove this that names him by name as
Speaker 1: the railway foreman for Conrail. Conrail was shipping a telescope
Speaker 1: that was made in Philadelphia to South America where they
Speaker 1: found that one tile. Conrail was Apparently they were yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't remember if they were building it or if
Speaker 1: they were involved in there. Somehow they were involved because
Speaker 1: there was an article that was written about the shipping
Speaker 1: of this telescope and that this guy was named Railroad
Speaker 1: Joe was named by first and last name as being
Speaker 1: the railway foreman for this project. So that's an interesting
Speaker 1: The only thing about this is that Railway Joe, Railroad
Speaker 1: Joe died. Okay, there's a problem. When did the Chile appear.
Speaker 1: It was in the early eighties. He would have been alive,
Speaker 1: but their tiles have been dated too much later than
Speaker 1: that in the correct style. In the correct style, it
Speaker 1: would have been the original ones. So he would have
Speaker 1: had been laying them past the grave, which doesn't seem
Speaker 1: super likely. That's maybe he was successful. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he's been. He's been traveling for commuting, if
Speaker 1: you will. So James Moresco, next one who's named in
Speaker 1: the he's named in the Inquirer article. He's also okay,
Speaker 1: So I guess we do have to delve a little
Speaker 1: bit into this back history of the Minority Association. And
Speaker 1: there was this press packet that went out and there
Speaker 1: were these wheat paste posters that went up in the
Speaker 1: early eighties. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a wheat
Speaker 1: paste poster is literally you slap paste when you're in
Speaker 1: grade school paste. It's some version of that onto a
Speaker 1: poster and then just slapping against the wall to adhere
Speaker 1: it rather than using a staple or tape or something
Speaker 1: like that. That's what a wheat paste posters. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: just making sure I was under are the ones that
Speaker 1: like stick up for years and years? Yeah, you cannot
Speaker 1: because they're sealed, and okay, you got it. Just making
Speaker 1: sure I understood that. And where did disappear in Philadelphia?
Speaker 1: In kind of like lower income hubs, so like greyhound stations,
Speaker 1: union station, things like that. And they had the same
Speaker 1: messaging that the tiles do. And that's about as far
Speaker 1: as I'm willing really to go in. It wasn't the
Speaker 1: same verbiage, but the same idea, same idea. Okay. So
Speaker 1: the Minority Association is fairly widely accepted to be the
Speaker 1: predecessor to these tiles, and on all of the media information,
Speaker 1: they had this press packet that we talked about a
Speaker 1: little bit earlier. The name that appears is James Moresco.
Speaker 1: He's a good candidate, so he was the spokesman. He
Speaker 1: was there. He was there's publicity manager essentially, but you know,
Speaker 1: as we were just talking a client, he probably served
Speaker 1: as in every every SEP. Actually he probably was the
Speaker 1: entire organization. Here's the thing is that actually he didn't.
Speaker 1: It was him and his brother and his his brother's
Speaker 1: wife and like one other person. And there's actually apparently
Speaker 1: some kind of signed documentation of this that there were
Speaker 1: more than just him involved. Anyways, Um, so there's been
Speaker 1: some searches on this name based on any information that
Speaker 1: could be gained from the journalist that wrote this article.
Speaker 1: And there was one guy named James Moresco who would
Speaker 1: have been in his seventies. He's the one you read
Speaker 1: about when you just do like a prolifer google search
Speaker 1: on Toynbe tiles, because he's the one that comes up there.
Speaker 1: That's the one that they say. But he would have
Speaker 1: been in his seventies or eighties when the tiles were
Speaker 1: being laid. But we think he's the best candidate. It's
Speaker 1: because again this is where I say spelling right. Alternately,
Speaker 1: the theory was floated, and I think this is probably
Speaker 1: the strongest theory, is that it was a pseudo name.
Speaker 1: M hmm. Yeah, And that it was actually the guy
Speaker 1: who lived at the address after Railroad Joe died, named
Speaker 1: sevy Verna, who was has been discounted because his mother
Speaker 1: says he has a lung disease. Therefore he's never been
Speaker 1: able to travel. He's bit of a shot. He's totally
Speaker 1: he's a super shut in, which he really ever sees
Speaker 1: him could make it possible that he is or completely
Speaker 1: plausible that he isn't. He was attacked in the in
Speaker 1: in his home over this. He was not over this,
Speaker 1: it was over a different dispute ute because of that,
Speaker 1: he it has been documented by his neighbors that he
Speaker 1: put up plywood in his windows and barred his door
Speaker 1: just like that manifesto says the person did. He's really
Speaker 1: really smart apparently and totally a shut in and kind
Speaker 1: of crazy. He apparently drove a car that was missing
Speaker 1: a fourboard um and also had this giant antenna that
Speaker 1: broadcasted like a kind of pirate radio short wave thing.
Speaker 1: And again that's something that like I don't even want
Speaker 1: to touch. But the short wave connection, short wave connection,
Speaker 1: if you're super interested, go look it up. There's no
Speaker 1: that's so far down there. That's another at least. Yeah. Additionally,
Speaker 1: in these papers that were uncovered of this original kind
Speaker 1: of minority association situation, all of the all of the
Speaker 1: references to themselves referred to James Moresco, with one exception
Speaker 1: that appears to be a typo which refers to themselves
Speaker 1: as Sevrino virna. So we messed up and broke characters
Speaker 1: way there. It's that's what that infers. Yeah, so it
Speaker 1: seems to be a fairly strong connection to this guy
Speaker 1: who lives in the place where the tile referred people.
Speaker 1: He's kind of crazy, he's kind of a shut in,
Speaker 1: and the neighbors kind of describe him as this without
Speaker 1: it seems, knowing anything about the situation. You know, these
Speaker 1: are people you say, hey, tell me, can you tell
Speaker 1: me a little about this guy? And they say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's um, he's really really smart, and he's kind of shutting,
Speaker 1: he's really shy, he's very scared. Oh and he drove
Speaker 1: this car that like I think like the bottom rusted out,
Speaker 1: like just to kind of tell people how eccentric this
Speaker 1: guy was, without having knowledge of the fact that people
Speaker 1: think that he's the tyler. And again, this is hard
Speaker 1: to verify this, right, Okay. You and I talked about
Speaker 1: this before we started recording to night, is that this
Speaker 1: is one of those A plus F draws conclusion of
Speaker 1: c kind of scenarios to me, which is not always
Speaker 1: the right way to approach it, but it's the easy
Speaker 1: thing to see and go to. The example. The example
Speaker 1: that you and I talked about is in the documentary
Speaker 1: they talk about where some of them the text could
Speaker 1: come from, and there was that play or was it
Speaker 1: a play? Yeah, David Mammitt, Yeah, Free Am is the
Speaker 1: name of it, which all it's a play. It's a
Speaker 1: two man play about somebody calling into a radio DJ
Speaker 1: and spouting all these crazy ideas, which are very in
Speaker 1: line with some of the stuff. Yeah, it's very very close. Okay,
Speaker 1: Well I'm going to make a jump in the same
Speaker 1: kind of logical quell. Okay, and I guess we should
Speaker 1: like add caveat to that is that David Mammett believes
Speaker 1: that these tiles are a homage to his play, So
Speaker 1: let's just throw that out there. Yeah, but I'm I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to get across this why people jump to
Speaker 1: say it's sevy. Is this this basic I'm following this
Speaker 1: train and it just seems so easy. Okay, Well, when
Speaker 1: I was watching the documentary, one of the guys and
Speaker 1: I think it's I can't remember who it was. Just
Speaker 1: as he finds a freshly laid tile that has been
Speaker 1: on the ground for minutes because he peels at a party,
Speaker 1: discovers it and he says, I was I went to
Speaker 1: the store and it must have been about four am
Speaker 1: in the morning, and then I found this. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I can run this logic that says, well, they're following
Speaker 1: part of that. They're now incorporating the play which is
Speaker 1: called four am, which is supposed to be the time
Speaker 1: that this call was made in this call in show,
Speaker 1: and whoever is doing this is now as an homage
Speaker 1: following that and dropping these things at four a m.
Speaker 1: And now let's go okay, well to me, okay, well,
Speaker 1: let's just follow well, okay, yeah, you can see the
Speaker 1: logic in that, and that could get build steam and
Speaker 1: get built upon. But it's a connection that is very,
Speaker 1: very loose, and I think that it's only by the
Speaker 1: pounding of feet on top of it that it gets
Speaker 1: so strong. So that's that's my thing. When everybody says
Speaker 1: the sevy, I actually feel bad for seven. Well, and
Speaker 1: so here's my thing about Sevy is his mother says
Speaker 1: that he has this this long disease, and the tiles
Speaker 1: very clearly refer to this man having a terminal disease
Speaker 1: of some kind and struggling with the idea of death.
Speaker 1: And I think that the man that you've described as
Speaker 1: this kind of manic, reclusive, really smart, the kind of
Speaker 1: scared man who may have signed kind of mental thing,
Speaker 1: who's also struggling with a terminal illness. He I just think,
Speaker 1: I just feel like he really fits the image that
Speaker 1: you have of the kind of person that would make
Speaker 1: these tiles. Yeah. Again, my problem is you've built that.
Speaker 1: They totally built that image, and and and it's it's
Speaker 1: it's almost too conveniently molded. That's my problem. That's totally
Speaker 1: it's almost seems too easy. Absolutely, So let me ter
Speaker 1: up for a second. So this guy is how old now?
Speaker 1: And is he's still alive? Yeah, he's um, I think
Speaker 1: in his but he would have been in his early
Speaker 1: twenties when these things first started kind of which was
Speaker 1: the eighties. Yeah, mid seventies when all this stuff happens. Okay,
Speaker 1: and so and then he moved in after um Roadroad,
Speaker 1: after Railroad Joe, he moved in there or maybe earlier.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know that, I haven't seen
Speaker 1: the record. He maybe that Railroad Joe moved out to
Speaker 1: live in a facility while he died or something. But
Speaker 1: in the Railroad Joe was remembered to have lived there
Speaker 1: in the very early eighties at the very least. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so so interesting. Yeah, I wonder if Railroad Joe maybe
Speaker 1: laid some of the original ones down for the year
Speaker 1: funt of it and then moved out lesson on those
Speaker 1: materials behind. Maybe it was just a continuation, and you know,
Speaker 1: that was that was the thought that came to me
Speaker 1: as well as that, like how convenient that these two
Speaker 1: people who like the story is totally kind of a
Speaker 1: little bit fit, Like maybe they knew each other maybe,
Speaker 1: like how did he find this place? You know? Like
Speaker 1: how did were they friends? Did they like we can
Speaker 1: say that maybe they were both is the Minority Association
Speaker 1: said the name of it? They were both in it,
Speaker 1: and Joe started it and created the template and then
Speaker 1: somebody else picked it up, whether it was SEVN or
Speaker 1: somebody else. You know, if he creates a template then
Speaker 1: you just start following the template. And if you follow
Speaker 1: a template, after enough time, you don't need the template.
Speaker 1: You can do it freehand. After years of doing this
Speaker 1: kind of thing, and then when they start doing a
Speaker 1: little little side tiles or the manifesto, you just automatically
Speaker 1: carve in that manner. Because I'm holding this let's just
Speaker 1: say it's a box dive, because that's what I would
Speaker 1: carve littally in with. Okay, it's a box life. I
Speaker 1: hold box knife and I cut this way every time,
Speaker 1: and then just being bang boom, and just you just
Speaker 1: automatically muscle memory. Yeah. So I guess for me, I
Speaker 1: have this picture, and I've always had this picture of
Speaker 1: this person who feels like they've discovered the answer to
Speaker 1: eternal human life, and whether that's all legitimate discovery or not,
Speaker 1: but the rest of us are just too dumb to
Speaker 1: catch on totally. It's again it goes back to that feeling.
Speaker 1: It's kind of just this overarching feeling of like frustration
Speaker 1: with this case, either on any side of it, even
Speaker 1: if it's the person of the tyler, right, I feel
Speaker 1: that there's this like feeling of frustration because one of
Speaker 1: the side tiles says, kill all journalists, I beg you.
Speaker 1: And there's a fairly well documented history of somebody kind
Speaker 1: of in the early eighties trying to reach out to
Speaker 1: journalists to give this idea to them, to the media,
Speaker 1: to the main media, large media. So I get this
Speaker 1: image of this person who, for whatever reasons, is really
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with the idea of death, like more uncomfortable than
Speaker 1: the normal human being, right, And they that's fair. Some
Speaker 1: people are some people aren't. And you get this idea
Speaker 1: in your head and you think, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: figured it out. I know, like obviously Hurick was trying
Speaker 1: to tell us this Toynbe was trying to tell us this.
Speaker 1: The answer to this is we just resurrect the death,
Speaker 1: Like this is something that people have known about, you know.
Speaker 1: Conspiracy theorists get these things in their head. They think
Speaker 1: it's a moment of cla. People have known this forever,
Speaker 1: but it's being kept from the general population for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: And maybe it didn't start out that way. Maybe it
Speaker 1: starts out with, oh my god, this is what this
Speaker 1: person is trying to tell us. And you reach out
Speaker 1: to the media and you say, hey, this is what
Speaker 1: this person is trying to tell us, and the media says, Okay,
Speaker 1: you're a crackpot, and you face this ridicule and this
Speaker 1: like taunting, and since you're maybe a little crazy already,
Speaker 1: it starts to cycle on itself. You reach out and
Speaker 1: you say, hey, this idea and they say that idea
Speaker 1: and you say, oh, they hate me, oh, and you
Speaker 1: vilify them the more. I don't even think that's saying
Speaker 1: that they're crazy or imbalanced. But if you're constantly being rejected,
Speaker 1: it's rejection, is what it is. You're being rejected on
Speaker 1: this idea that will push you to either stop or
Speaker 1: go to greater and greater extremes to get your message. Well,
Speaker 1: I think you become reactive and you vilify the people
Speaker 1: who are saying no to you. So you come up
Speaker 1: with this other method, and your other method happens to
Speaker 1: be these tiles, and you start laying these tiles over
Speaker 1: and over again because you feel like this is the
Speaker 1: only way you can get out. And then suddenly, because
Speaker 1: you're you don't you're so reactive and so close did
Speaker 1: people start coming to you and saying, hey, we think
Speaker 1: you're doing this, and you go, no, no, I know
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. Stay away from me because if
Speaker 1: I tell you I'm doing that, You're going to make
Speaker 1: fun of me. It's kind of illegal. You could be fine, sure,
Speaker 1: but you know, I think that there are some people
Speaker 1: who have approached him in this very really honest way
Speaker 1: and he who and if it's that person or not,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. But to like react that strongly of
Speaker 1: no reaction, you know, like just a complete like shut down,
Speaker 1: just shoves him back and never answers, the door pushes away,
Speaker 1: and you have not done anything for the last what
Speaker 1: fifteen years at this point, right, Who's two thousand two
Speaker 1: was the last ten twelve years? And that could be
Speaker 1: all of the attention. It could be that the person
Speaker 1: that's really doing it has died. It could be if
Speaker 1: we're if we're going to run down it, Sevy. It
Speaker 1: might be that he's so afraid to do it anymore,
Speaker 1: or maybe he's disillusioned because of the copycat I mean again,
Speaker 1: there is a thousand It's like, you know, there's so
Speaker 1: much a million different directions speculation, but so but the
Speaker 1: thing about it is is like, you know, if he's
Speaker 1: got some sort of message for the world about about
Speaker 1: his ideas for resurrecting the dead. Then he could have
Speaker 1: picked a better format than you know, viol on the street,
Speaker 1: because I mean and and on an telligible messages. I mean,
Speaker 1: if he really has something to tell us about this,
Speaker 1: then he could write a book, you know, you could
Speaker 1: write letters to the editor, write something that's coherence. Actually,
Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm going to do this. Step up.
Speaker 1: I'm going to step up and and defend s a
Speaker 1: little bit on this, okay, or whoever whoever it is.
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't write a book because nobody will
Speaker 1: publish it, and I don't have the money to self publish.
Speaker 1: I can write letters to the editor till I'm blue
Speaker 1: in the face, but that doesn't mean that they're going
Speaker 1: to publish it, because you know they get a gazillion
Speaker 1: every day. But and let's go a step further from that, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So if we're going to go with the David Mammitt
Speaker 1: play connection a little bit, right, because it is a
Speaker 1: little uncanny. You start to read it, really is that
Speaker 1: David Mammitt stuff, and read everything you can about the
Speaker 1: Toybee tiles and it's like some of it is like
Speaker 1: phrase for phrase. Okay, So David Mammitt said oh no,
Speaker 1: there was no caller. This like totally came up. I
Speaker 1: think actually these tiles are reference to my play. But
Speaker 1: very early, like right after he published the play, he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I heard an interview on Larry King Live at like
Speaker 1: four o'clock in the morning, and uh, that's where I
Speaker 1: got this idea. So okay, So Sevy or whoever it is, right,
Speaker 1: calls Larry King Live and gets this phone interview and
Speaker 1: then there's nothing done about it. So he like writes
Speaker 1: to some dude at the Inquirer and there's like a
Speaker 1: little like super skeptical kind of making fun of him thing,
Speaker 1: and he like writes other letters to the editor. People
Speaker 1: are just like saying no, no, no, no, no, dismissed,
Speaker 1: dismiss dismiss. So he does these paste four or the
Speaker 1: wheat paste stuff, right, but that's coming down that's not
Speaker 1: permanent enough for him. What else can I do? Oh well,
Speaker 1: but these tiles in it's more permanent. It's a way
Speaker 1: that he knows how to get his message across a
Speaker 1: little bit. And it probably so the person who writes
Speaker 1: that makes total sense. Let's let's be totally honest here.
Speaker 1: I agree with that, But those four lines that makes
Speaker 1: But have you considered another possibility, which is that the
Speaker 1: guy wasn't insane, You just really hated pedestrians, and a
Speaker 1: really great way to get get people run out because
Speaker 1: they're gonna stop and look at this and scratch their
Speaker 1: head and not even noticed that bus coming towards. The
Speaker 1: old ones. The old style ones are like there was
Speaker 1: one in the entrance to like a turnpike, Um tunnel,
Speaker 1: Holland Tunnel, and then like another one in the middle
Speaker 1: of a fruit a different freeway, and they're like in
Speaker 1: the middle of the streets and stuff like that. They're
Speaker 1: not just on pedestrians. And the news style ones are
Speaker 1: almost a hud geared towards pedestrians there in the middle
Speaker 1: of the street, but they're like turned so that a
Speaker 1: pedestrian on the sidewalk could see it. Instead of being
Speaker 1: geared towards like the traffic going down the street, they're
Speaker 1: turned horizontally so that the pedestrians could read it from
Speaker 1: the sidewalk or they're in the middle of a crosswalk,
Speaker 1: or they're on a sidewalk. And one of the things
Speaker 1: that mystifies me about the one around the hot torn
Speaker 1: as it picked probably one of the most one of
Speaker 1: the least pedestrian intensive scratches of the street. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: one on MLK on like one of the least pedestrian
Speaker 1: intense spaces too. And that's the other kind of question
Speaker 1: mark about this is that, like, okay, so you're doing
Speaker 1: these tiles in the middle of a freeway, Like, who
Speaker 1: the hell is going to see that? Like you might
Speaker 1: drive over it and be like, oh, there was something there,
Speaker 1: but you can't read those four lines while driving over it,
Speaker 1: you know. And it's not geared towards that it's not
Speaker 1: written the opposite the way that they do signs, like
Speaker 1: you know, in the middle of the accident, could have dropped.
Speaker 1: That was a couple of accidents, though, don't you think. Okay,
Speaker 1: so let's let's run with the guy's got a hole
Speaker 1: in the floorboard of his car and he's got a
Speaker 1: stack of these things prepped. Yeah, and he takes a
Speaker 1: corner a little too fast and he runs over a
Speaker 1: coup and then the car goes from whoo, and the
Speaker 1: top one off the stack slides off, and there's no
Speaker 1: way he's going to stop to grab it. That was
Speaker 1: go on, Oh, well, I would just say that that
Speaker 1: happened to be a very lucky landing because it looks
Speaker 1: really intentional. Yeah, not like in a weird little It
Speaker 1: is a lucky landing. And our of course said it
Speaker 1: would about that would have landed upside down and reverse lettering.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like we're missing something obvious here, don't
Speaker 1: I mean, don't you don't right now. I just feel
Speaker 1: like the answer is like literally on the tip of
Speaker 1: my brain. I feel like I'm missing all of it. Really,
Speaker 1: I mean, I still don't understand what this is about. Yeah, Scott,
Speaker 1: the whole thing is just goofy. Yeah. So not not
Speaker 1: that sounds like I'm dismissing you or being a jerk.
Speaker 1: I just in my head it's goofy. I don't care,
Speaker 1: And this is you know, this is one There have
Speaker 1: not been any listener suggestions for it, but it has
Speaker 1: been like, literally since we started talking about doing this show,
Speaker 1: you know, years ago, this has been one that I've
Speaker 1: been thinking, I got to do that. And I was
Speaker 1: just saying to Steve like literally an hour before we recorded,
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not ready. I can't do it, um.
Speaker 1: And I think that's just kind of how it's always
Speaker 1: going to be with this story. So I guess um,
Speaker 1: if you want to check out the pictures of the
Speaker 1: tiles or any of the links, UH will link the
Speaker 1: documentary that we've been talking about. Um, you can find
Speaker 1: all that stuff at our website, which is Thinking Sideways
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. If you come up with a really
Speaker 1: brilliant theory of some kind, please email us, like seriously,
Speaker 1: please email us. UM. It's Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. And by the way, if you are the tyler,
Speaker 1: would you just as a as a little president, do
Speaker 1: some of those tiles, a whole bunch of them thinking
Speaker 1: Sideways and put them on the streets. We would really
Speaker 1: appreciate it. That would be great awesome. You can also
Speaker 1: you can always leave us a comment on our website
Speaker 1: if you're listening there. UM, a lot of people are
Speaker 1: trying to get in touch with us. With us that way,
Speaker 1: we try to get back to you, you know, in
Speaker 1: a fairly timely manner. UM. If you're not listening on
Speaker 1: our website, you're probably listening on iTunes. You are leave
Speaker 1: us a comment in a rating so that other people
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Speaker 1: download us UM on any mobile ready device. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I guess my Yeah, I think so. I think that's
Speaker 1: my feeling, right like, I can't verbalize it any better
Speaker 1: than that, but so I'm tired of this story anyway. No,
Speaker 1: this just doesn't deserve it, you right, Sorry, Sorry, I
Speaker 1: think it's David Mabbott. You know that would be a
Speaker 1: hell of a publicity stunt.