1 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Thinking sideways. I don't you never know what story is 2 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: of things. We simply don't know the answer to toy 3 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: the idea in movie two thousand one resurrect dead on 4 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: planet Jupiter um and and but it's a gas planet, 5 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: and it's like, what's going on here? You're like Sherlock 6 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: Holmes on a cocaine bender. No, You've got notes and 7 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: hastily written notes every what is okay? Okay, you're a 8 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: little too into this in your forehead. Just the thing 9 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: is is that this is one of those mysteries that 10 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: so many people have dealt into, and I feel like 11 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: there's like a curse attached to it, like you just 12 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: fall into it. It's like it never It's like Alice 13 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: in the looking glass. It's just how many more metaphors 14 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: can I come up? I really don't know. Yeah, and 15 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: you just fall in and there's no you know, I 16 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: I know. I was expressing to Steve earlier that I 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: don't know if I'm really ready for this, just because 18 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: there's so much information out there. It's been going on 19 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: for so long you can't do anything about it. But 20 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: I really want to talk about this one because it's 21 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: like one of my favorite mysteries, and I feel like 22 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: it's time, but I'm so sorry I can't make it through. 23 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: Let's talk about you're gonna help me with us, because 24 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: if we're going to solve it, I don't want to 25 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,119 Speaker 1: solve it. I really want to solve it. It's the thing, Okay. 26 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: The thing about this mystery is that it seems like 27 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: there's just an obvious answer, right. It's one of those 28 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: ones where you like, you read through it and you're like, well, 29 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm I'm like an idiot, Like I'm clearly 30 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: I'm just not making the right connections, Like there should 31 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: be a really simple answer at this, but there's just not. No. No, 32 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: I can perspective there is a simple answer. Somebody's making 33 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: these things and putting them out there, right, but who 34 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: and why? And that's let's start the beginning. There are 35 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: for dear friends who are listening today alright and don't 36 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: know what's going on. Okay, so what's your This is, well, 37 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: this is Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm so sorry everyone. 38 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: My name is Devin, and I'm joined as always by 39 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: and we're gonna go out of mystery. By now, you 40 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: probably know we're going to do the toy be tiles. 41 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: So these tiles, um they're sometimes called plaques started showing 42 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: up maybe in the early nineteen eighties, definitely, people can 43 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: pretty solidly recall in like three these things cropping up. 44 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: But for sure there were recorded sightings in the early nineties. 45 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: So theyve been around, what they've been around a while, 46 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: happening a while, I should say happening I think, been 47 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: around because it's often a lot of times they have 48 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: been around for a while, but sometimes they haven't, and 49 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: that's kind of well, you know, they could be one 50 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: of them could be around for a long time before 51 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: you even notice it. You know, the one that's over 52 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 1: near my house, it's seventh in Hawthorne, which I went 53 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: and looked at today that it actually is there. It's 54 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: still there. Yeah, but I've been I've been driving over 55 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: that thing and passed that thing forgot for years now, 56 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: never even noticed because they you know, that's kind of 57 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: part of it. They crop up in the middle of 58 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: asphalt streets or sidewalks, but but more they crop up 59 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: in the street kind of places where you don't necessarily 60 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: see them. Um and by the way, yeah, and as 61 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: it's because you know, as it's gotten more recent, it's 62 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: kind of we we see them more in visible pedestrian spaces. 63 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: We'll talk about this in a little bit. It's a 64 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: big there's a distinction. Okay, most of them are are 65 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: just this phrase to be idea in movie two thousand 66 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: one resurrect dead on planet Jupiter. The most common variations 67 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: you'll see are instead of in movie, it will say 68 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: in Cubricks two thousand one, because he directed it the 69 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: movie and I think he wrote it to things a 70 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: little mysterious to me is this two thousand one resurrect 71 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: down on Jupiter. I mean, in the movie they go 72 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: to Jupiter, but they're not going there to resurrect the dead. Well, 73 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: we'll talk about this. There's so much to talk about 74 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 1: with So officially we kind of consider anything that cropped up, 75 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: not anything, but most of them that cropped up until 76 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: about two thousand two to be old style or original tiles. 77 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: And then since two thousand to a lot of um 78 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: copycats have kind of cropped up. You know, the ones 79 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: here are considered to be copycats UM, and that I 80 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: think is due in part to the fact that forums 81 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: got ahold of her some somehow realized how these were 82 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: being done. And they posted on the Internet, so people 83 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: who were toying be tile enthusiasts now knew how they 84 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: were made, how to make them themselves. And we're kind 85 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: of going out and copying and propagating the it becomes 86 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: a movement. Yes, it makes sense. Yeah, street art absolutely. 87 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: I'm actually thinking about creating one myself. I did in college. Yeah, 88 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: I did um in Illinois. Is it still there? I 89 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: have no idea. He was never on Google street View. 90 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: I guess we'll start by talking about how they're made, 91 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: because that's the simplest thing to attack in this whole situation. 92 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: It's the simplest thing to attack. And I understand that 93 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: this is, you know, again propagating the mystery a little bit. 94 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: You know, we're about to say to all of our 95 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: millions of viewers or listeners, at least one percent of 96 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,679 Speaker 1: whom we're going to want to run right out totally. 97 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: So now you'll know how to do it, not that. Yeah, 98 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: and it's not that you couldn't just google it before. 99 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: So they're they're actually made of linoleum linolium tiles, just 100 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: like you can buy at home depot um. The theory 101 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: is and again, since you know that it's pretty easy 102 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: to tell. You just carve out your message in the linoleum. 103 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: And the older style ones, we're really colorful and kind 104 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: of like look like mosaics and we'll we'll post pictures 105 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: of these so you can kind of see. But they're 106 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: really beautiful. Yeah, they're kind of. But so the older ones, 107 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: I mean like they had like color the letters in. 108 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: Now did they just lay lay the cut out lin 109 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: only on top of another piece of material to get 110 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: the color or did they actually cut out different colored pieces. 111 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: So essentially what you do is you put down a 112 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: piece of tar paper, which is what they use when 113 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: you're reroofing when you put shingles on, and you can 114 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: again you can just get it at home deepot or whatever. 115 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: So you get a layer of tar paper, which they 116 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 1: also used to patch cement and asphall cracks. Um. You 117 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: lay that down and then you would cut out your 118 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: basic outline so you're big, you're like main color of 119 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: the tile, and then you cut out the little bits, 120 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: carve out, carve out the letters and stick them in 121 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: the holes um and then you put a bunch of 122 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: Olmoer's glue on there and all over it. You just 123 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: like it's like making a sandwich a little bit, Yeah, 124 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: and you just like smother your mayonnaise or jam or 125 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: whatever it is in there, and then you use asphalt 126 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: crack filler as well a little bit, and then you 127 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: stick another layer of tar paper on there, and you've 128 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: got yourself a little like sandwich packet. Well, and I 129 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: think I think the answer Joe's question is, and it 130 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: took me a while to figure this out. You're talking 131 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: about the original ones were much more colorful. Yeah, because 132 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: what somebody was doing was carving the letters out and 133 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: making a negative space in the linoleum and then adding 134 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: a positive and then cutting out another piece of linoleum 135 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: that was the letter in laying in there to make 136 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: the positive. It would be that hard. Actually, you could 137 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: use it as a stencil, extremely time consumed. If you 138 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: think about that, I carved the letter are, and then 139 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: I've got to carve the letter are smaller and in 140 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: relatively the same shape proportionately to fit in there. So 141 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: if the leg or the curve is too big, i 142 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: gotta go back and shave it down to get them 143 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: all in there. And you know, the really interesting thing. 144 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: The other thing that you kind of notice is as 145 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: you start to look at the pictures of these tiles, 146 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: you can kind of instinctively know if it's an original 147 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: or copycat because there's really distinct handwriting that goes with 148 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: the very obvious style. It's really really obvious, and it's 149 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: really consistent. It's not like an amateur carver. And even 150 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: and we'll get into this, there are these like original 151 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: like trial runs that were found and you look at 152 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: them and you're like, oh, that's the guy, Like that 153 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: was made by the same person. And there's there's the screeds, 154 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: which are just tons and tons of little writing that 155 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: it's just so much and it's a very consistent style. 156 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: So the style is the key, Yeah, it absolutely is. 157 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: Um it's it's like a fingerprint. Yeah, I think I 158 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: think that's true. And the guy, the guy who does 159 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: a squeeze sounds like a little bit unbalanced. Well, so yeah, 160 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: we call those man I'm in it, you guys, I'm 161 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: in it. Those are called they're referred to most often 162 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: as the manifesto tiles, and we'll talk about that but 163 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: a little bit later. But so they've floated this theory 164 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: that the person the tyler will refer to this person 165 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: as the Tyler. You often see that kind of in 166 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: the net sphere, the infosphere, and we don't actually, we 167 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: don't have a verified name. Yeah, there's and and it's 168 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: pretty widely accepted that it was just one person. So 169 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: we'll just go ahead and throw that out there in 170 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: the beginning. So there was this theory that the Tyler 171 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: had a car that was missing a floorboard, so you 172 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: would just you would drop your little sandwich packet and it 173 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: it would go and then drive away. And the way 174 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: when I did, it would know did you cut a 175 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: hole in the bottom of your card? I didn't have. 176 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: That's good. That's good. Okay. So it hits the ground. 177 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: So it hits the ground, and then the heat of 178 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: the tires driving over it, uh, kind of embeds it 179 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: in the asphalt. It just like deep deep embeds it 180 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: and then eventually wears the tar paper part away after 181 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: all of the like tar and asphalt and glue have 182 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: solidified into the been pushed around because they're they're they're 183 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of a sticky liquid way to say it. 184 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: So it gets pushed away from the base material totally 185 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: on the top. Yeah, so it all gets embedded and 186 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 1: then it'll wear a wait at the paper, so they 187 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: just eventually kind of reveal themselves, which is really cool 188 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: if you think about it, and really ingenious. Yeah, super 189 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: super smart. Yeah, I think that I don't think that 190 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: I would go to the lengths of cutting ahold the 191 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: bottom of my car though. I think I just like 192 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: roll down my window and drop it out that way. 193 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: You have the thing about a car with a hole 194 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: in the floorboard, is nobody plans to have that, but 195 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: you end up with it because I hadn't. I had 196 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 1: a car that I discovered had a hole in the 197 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: floorboard once and I wasn't planning on habit it. But 198 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: once I had it, I had it. So I don't 199 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: know how how much I like this theory, to be 200 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: totally honest with you. Um, there's a there's a dropping 201 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: it through the floorboard thing. There's a documentary that we're 202 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: going to like refer a lot to in this because 203 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of like the end all be all of 204 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: information on the TONB tiles. It's called Resurrect Dead, and 205 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: they talk a lot about this car as it refers 206 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: to the person that they think is responsible for this. 207 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: They find a car they did not, but they have 208 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: descriptions of it, and it's a crazy well car. But 209 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: I think, you know, in some instances that makes sense. 210 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: But to say that that's how this person exclusively did that, 211 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: I just don't think that's the case. I don't. I 212 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: just don't. Can I can I break in here for 213 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: a second, because this is the thing that we've We've 214 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: had a couple of stories where there's been documentaries out 215 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: there about him. I know the last one we did Hubert, 216 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: there was a documentary that was done. And the thing 217 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: that I always I want to bring bring up and 218 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: and make people think about, is that when you watch 219 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 1: a documentary, they have come to a conclusion typically of 220 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: what the answer is gonna be, at least for the 221 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: most part. So they're going to bring that stuff to 222 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: the forefront. And it's a little frustrating to me at 223 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: times because I don't always agree with it, and I 224 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: don't always think the logic is sound, And I think 225 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: that it's very easy for folks to go and let's say, 226 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: watch this documentary and say, oh, well, that's the absolute answer. 227 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: But I still see some holes and not that these 228 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: guys didn't do a ton of leg work. They did, 229 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: And again I think you know, if you watch this movie, 230 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: you will get exactly the idea of what I was 231 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: just talking about earlier, is you fall down this rabbit hole. 232 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: And even you know, they're an instance where a guy 233 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: comes in and he's like a total skeptic and he 234 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: like doesn't totally he's not really into the idea, and 235 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: by the end of it, he's like one of the 236 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: only people who still like involved in the whole situation. 237 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: But I think you just you don't. I think there 238 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: is that feeling of thinking, well, there must just be 239 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: this really simple answer it or just like that I'm 240 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: just too stupid to see. And that's that's what drives 241 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: me crazy sometimes when we see these documentaries, which are 242 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 1: well made. I'm not going to knock on them, but 243 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: then you start thinking about it after the facts. Well, okay, 244 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: so I agenda is not the right word to use, 245 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: but they have an agenda that they that they are 246 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: putting forward and that's what they're going to support. But 247 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,559 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that that's the only or the absolute 248 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: or correct answer, right right Anyway, I didn't mean to interrupt, 249 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: but I just I had to say that because we've 250 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: had this come up a couple of times. I agree, yeah, 251 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: and I think it's it's worth saying for sure. They 252 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: the theory kind of commonly accepted knowledge is that there's 253 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: about a hundred and fifty like old style tiles, originals 254 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: originals essentially that people have have identified, and you know, 255 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: there may be more that nobody's ever seen. They may 256 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: have gotten destroyed before anybody ever had to see them, 257 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: because they're getting well. And the thing of it that's 258 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: really interesting is that it's it almost seems like it's 259 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: a really big effort to pave over these things. There 260 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: have been cities who like Chicago, for instance, which is 261 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: where these majority of them started out at, right, Philadelphia, Philadelphia, 262 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: you're right, but Chicago saw like two of them and 263 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: they were like, Nope, this is a huge act of vandalism. 264 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: We will do everything we can to pave over them 265 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: and destroy them. When truly, I mean, it's not destroying 266 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: the street. Like if I were a conspiracy theory not 267 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: it would totally feed into my conspiracy theory because it's 268 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: like a couple of tiles in the middle of the street. 269 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: It's not like gang graffiti like written on the side 270 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: of like some giant tourist trap or anything like that, 271 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: and now the government suppressing it. Yeah, I mean a 272 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: little bit. It's a lot of money to repay the street, Like, 273 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: it cost a lot of money to even just repay 274 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: a tiny little bit of street. And these are just 275 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: like chilling in the middle of the street. They're not like, 276 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: it's not a problem, see the infrastructure, you know, it's 277 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: not dangerous. Well, they're just some little graffiti's but graffiti 278 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: on a wall could be thought of the same way. 279 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: Don't appreciate it because that's not what that surfaces intended for. 280 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: I understand both sides just have to Yeah, no, I 281 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: think that's totally fair, because I don't want to say 282 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: this is like a conspiracy thing, because I listen to 283 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: the show. You know, I'm not a conspiracy person, But 284 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: I do want to say that the level that some 285 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: cities have gone to to say we're getting rid of 286 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: this stuff, it's it's a little crazy anyway. So there 287 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: are three hundred like copycats so far that they seen 288 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: um and we talked a little bit about what they 289 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: look like. There's this group called the House of Hades, 290 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: and they've been credited with at least a hundred of 291 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: the copycats and they're the ones who are doing it 292 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: in Portland, and the message is different. Often uh it 293 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: often says something about House of Hades. There's also the 294 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: Cult of the Hellian who are kind of the same 295 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: thing as the House of Hades, and they're they're doing 296 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: a lot of copycats as well. But it's just I mean, 297 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: you could do it individually. The thing is is that 298 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: to do it individually it costs a lot of money 299 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: because you have to get a whole role of our paper, okay, 300 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: and that's like fifty bucks of pop. And then you 301 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: gotta get linoleum, and then you have to get a 302 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: different color olium, and then you have to invest the 303 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: time and energy to like carve it. Just to have 304 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: said like, oh, I was like one tiny little part 305 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: of this movement that somebody may never see, that's not 306 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: something a lot of people do. So this guy, the 307 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: guy the tyler must have been like in home construction. 308 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: Just kidding, but actually that would make sense. So maybe 309 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: although to do like a hundred and fifty of them, Well, 310 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: but if you've got if you're working on jobs and 311 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 1: you're just collecting scraps, yeah, that suddenly affords you this 312 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: hobby at no cost your time. Yeah, or if you 313 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: like have a lot of time to like walk around 314 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: and just like pick up. Because you walk up to 315 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: URF and you say, hey, man, can I have like 316 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: a little piece of your tar paper? They're like, yeah, 317 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: it's in the trash taking what they or they don't 318 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: even notice or at late night and you go into 319 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: a dumpster. Not a big deal. The well actually, and 320 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: there's there are stores where you can actually buy you know, 321 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: scraps of various things like this. There's one that's not 322 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: very far away from here that has a lot of 323 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: stuff like that. You can you can buy small leftover 324 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: chunks of stuff like that because it's yeah, and they 325 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: make they make a little money off the whole thing, 326 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: and it doesn't go into the landfill. Yeah, for sure. 327 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: So this is um, this is what the House of 328 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: Hades tiles kind of look like. I didn't ever get 329 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 1: to connect and maybe that's just because I missed it. 330 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: But is the House of Hades something to do with 331 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: the original tiles or is it just some offshoot group 332 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: that just picked it up and took it. No, it's 333 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: a it's an offshoot group. And you can see they're 334 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: very clearly made with will post pictures. Of course they're 335 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: very clearly made with just like single tiles or double 336 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: wide of like just a floor tile. They just went 337 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: to like house deepot, home depot or something. And so 338 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 1: this one reads, there's often do reads House of Hades. 339 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: I make and glue tiles with the bones of dead journalists, 340 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: which is a reference to what is referred to as 341 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: the side tiles from the tiles and we'll talk about Yeah, 342 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: we'll talk about these because it's um there are a 343 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: lot of things that take this from being an art 344 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: project to being legitimate somebody trying to get their message 345 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: across the only way they can figure out how to 346 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: do it. Um. So the House of Hades does tiles 347 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 1: like that. It's just like to color is kind of 348 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: a lot of work, but like not the most work 349 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: as opposed to like this is one of the original 350 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: tiles and it's multiple colors and beautiful so much really 351 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: like a lot of work. And you can even see 352 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: while the House of Hades tries to emulate the way 353 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: that the handwriting is I'm going to call it handwriting, 354 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: it's it's still not quite the same. It's for me 355 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: when I see this text done because of how consistent 356 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: it is. I'm surprised that I have never come across 357 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: a toy be font. To be quite honest, I'm surprised 358 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: nobody has turned this into a font because it is 359 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: so consistent. You look at the d's, the a's, the 360 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: t are these things john very precisely East Tide. I 361 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: would guess that if I didn't know better, I would 362 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: say that somebody had to die to stamp these things 363 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: out with. Maybe night that might have made a stencil 364 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: set that very well could be. Yeah, but you know, 365 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: actually that's that suggests an idea. I think that since 366 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: this is not copyrighted, nobody else it, why don't we 367 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: invent that fonte a lot of money? You know, No, 368 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: I don't because I made before, and trust me, you 369 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: don't want to do it, and I don't want to 370 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 1: make money off of anything tany be related all. I 371 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: just don't. So, so I guess like mystery solved, right, 372 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: It was like one guy just like dropping some tiles 373 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: in between. We don't know who it is, but whatever, Okay, 374 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: just kidding, So Joe, I know this was your question, 375 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: is what do they mean? Because they think taken at 376 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:46,959 Speaker 1: face value, it's just like a weird note, right, Okay, okay, 377 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: So Toynbee was like this, there were a couple of 378 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: different people that it might have referred to, and two 379 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: thousand one of Space Odyssey. It's just like a Stanley 380 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: Hurick film, and like there's nothing really about resurrecting the 381 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: dead jupe Her and Jupiter, Like what a weird place. 382 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: It's just a gas planet there. Yeah, it's weird. So 383 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: so you know, actually, um, I'm reminded. This reminds me 384 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: of what is the word for those puzzles where you 385 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: take a bunch of words and you take the letgers 386 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: of those words and rearrange them. Okay, grammatically, okay, So 387 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: this looks to me like an anagram. It looks like 388 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: somebody has taken some words and rearrange the letters into 389 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: these sort of meaningless phrases. So that's really interesting. And 390 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: that's actually not a theory that I've seen I have before. Really, Yes, 391 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: I've read stuff that Toynbee can be rearranged into I 392 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: think teen Boy, and they've gone people have gone through 393 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: and taken everything in it and rearranged it to make 394 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: different And there's multiple variances on the messages that don't 395 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: make any more sense. Well, so there they can do it. 396 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: This is the thing that I want to say. The 397 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: other thing I want to say about this is that 398 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: there I hesitate to say wrong answers, but there are 399 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: so many wrong answers out there about the Twin be Tiles. 400 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: They're just are I mean, you know, people are like, 401 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: we was aliens, No it wasn't. Well it's a Soviet conspiracy. Well, 402 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: I mean maybe it might have been, you know, oh 403 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: it was just a journalist. Oh, it's just some dudes 404 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: art project. And there are just so many answers that 405 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: are really they feed into the conspiracy theory aspect um. 406 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:36,479 Speaker 1: They're just crazy talk. I mean, there are so many weird, 407 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: wrong answers, and I would put the kind of anagram 408 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: theory into in my mind a wrong answer, if only 409 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: because you can only really rearrange one line to make 410 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: more sense than it makes. Right. Now, that's exactly right. 411 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: It doesn't make any more sense to be teen boy. Yeah, yeah, 412 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,199 Speaker 1: exactly what it could be though that it's not not 413 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: a word by a word thing. So in other words, 414 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: the letters that go into toy B, which could be 415 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: re arranged to be team boy, might form be mixed 416 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: together with letters from other words in this phrase to 417 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: make good other words. But but when they're done, and 418 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: I think this is one of the things that people 419 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: grab onto each line when you see them on the 420 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: different tiles, sometimes they're they're very blocked. So two words, 421 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 1: three words, two words, three words. Um, it's not like 422 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: a high coup, but it's very organized in that manner, 423 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: and so it makes one think that, Okay, well, if 424 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to rearrange this, then I have to do 425 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 1: it a line by line because they're always written the 426 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: same way. It's never Toynbee idea in toy be idea, 427 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: and you know, you see where I'm heading with this. 428 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: They never they never get interjected into a different line. 429 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 1: So then it would be a little strange to say, oh, well, 430 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: you can mix and match them across the whole thing, 431 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: because it's it's just distinctly and when they're done in 432 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: the colors, the colors sometimes are done in blocks, so 433 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: toin the idea, the outside frame of it is one color. 434 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: In movie two thousand one is in another color, so 435 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: they're very distinctly blocked out. It's very organized and methodical 436 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: that way. So that's why I don't know that it 437 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 1: could be an anagram where you just take all the 438 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: letters in this and make a whole new statement from anywhere. 439 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: Take the J from Jupiter and it goes into the 440 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: first line that I have a hard time following. That. Also, 441 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: we can make sense out of this somewhat, I mean 442 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: a little bit. I think, Um. Actually, you know, as 443 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: we said, there's documentaries and they decide, well, it's just this, 444 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: and but I think that there's some really strong evidence 445 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: for this kind of following the same kind of thread. Um, 446 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: so we'll just kind of jump into it. The people 447 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: generally feel and I feel that this is true, is 448 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: that Toynbee refers to Arnold Toynbee, who was a kind 449 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: of general historian of human existence, one of those historians 450 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: that don't really exist anymore. He was just like, oh humans, yeah, 451 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: let's talk about all of it. And it was a 452 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: little volume set. Yeah, and it was and it was 453 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: really philosophical as well as historic. Well, and that was 454 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: the writing of the time totally. So he wrote this 455 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: book called Experiences and there's a really long quote from it. Joe, 456 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: can you read this, because I think you probably better 457 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: and kept encapsulate Arnold Toynbee how to read. That's true. Yeah, 458 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: so take it away. No one has ever been or 459 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: ever met a living human soul without a body. Someone 460 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: who accepts as I myself do, taking it on trust, 461 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: the present day scientific account of the universe may find 462 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: it impossible to believe that a living creature, once dead, 463 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: can come to life again. And this this is jumping 464 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: a little bit ahead, but there were these media packets 465 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: that were circulated that were attributed to the Tyler with 466 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: this group that he's associated with called the Minority Alliance, 467 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: which we're not even going to get into. And this 468 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: is pre the Tiles. This is pre the Tiles. And 469 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: this is one of those things that if you're really 470 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: interested in this mystery, you should go out and research this. 471 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: But I just don't think there's value in us sitting 472 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: here and talking about it. For there's a there's so 473 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: much information, So I think I think what I think 474 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: what you're getting at is we're trying to give kind 475 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: of the surface overview. Otherwise this would be a four 476 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: hour episode more than because we can dive in, as 477 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: you said, and we'll go down that and have to 478 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: come back out and go down and this yeah, I 479 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: had to stop reading on this. So anyways, there's a 480 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: early account of the like pre tile formation of this 481 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: kind of Toynbee idea situation attributed to this group called 482 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: the Minority Association. Will maybe get a little bit into 483 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: that a little bit later, but for now, just I 484 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: just believe me. It is the thing. And they circulated 485 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: these kind of media packets which we're only able to 486 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: be tracked down from one person um, but they had 487 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: this quote. It had a more expansive version of this 488 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: quote in it. So okay, so pause on that idea 489 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: for a second. Next idea two one. You know in 490 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 1: movie two thousand one, right, so at the at the 491 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: end of that movie, you guys remember it, right, this movie. 492 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: I did not get this movie. Yes, we talked about 493 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 1: it when I watched it for the first time ever, 494 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: because I just recently watched it. I don't get that movie. 495 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: So at the end, the protagonist like sees himself dying 496 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: and then suddenly he's like he's dying and then there's 497 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: this light and he's like a fetus and an embryo 498 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: again like a baby, and he like floats off into 499 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: space and it's like super weird. A lot of people. Yeah, 500 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 1: people kind of refer to this as like a proto 501 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: religious like ending to a movie, or a protoo religious 502 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: experience of watching this movie. For instance. Well, I never 503 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 1: really got that whole baby thing if that was him 504 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: or if that was just representing the rebirth of the 505 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: human race. I've heard that it's a metaphor of you know, 506 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: he it was he was found by aliens when he 507 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: went through the wormhole for lack of a better better term, 508 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: and then they didn't know what to do with him. 509 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: And then when they died, they figured out how to 510 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: bring it back, and they figured out how to get 511 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: him back where he'd come from. So then they were 512 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: taking him back to Earth. And it's like, wow, how 513 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: did you draw that conclusion? Yea, my understanding of the 514 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: whole thing, And because I read the book as well 515 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: as saw the movie and that did even that didn't 516 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: make the whole baby in the sky thing any more 517 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: comprehensible than But yeah, he goes through the sky. Yeah, 518 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: he does go through some worms, and he winds up 519 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: in this in this place of aliens who he never sees. 520 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: By the way, they and they've actually built a room 521 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: form actually a series of rooms like a nice little 522 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: apartment for him, just and and nothing actually works as advertised, 523 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: like the doors don't open, the drawers and stuff like that, 524 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: but it looks just like a normal, nice, nice quality 525 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: apartment or something like that. And apparently he lives out 526 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: the rest of his days there in captivity with the aliens. Okay, yeah, 527 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: and so so okay, so let's um just trust some 528 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: people on an interpretation of the end of this movie, 529 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: because I think we all can kind that, Like I 530 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: can watch that a million times and still be like, 531 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: I have no idea. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. So 532 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: there are some kind of especially taken in contact with 533 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: the Toynbee tiles and the toy Bee kind of phies 534 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: sort of situations. So if you merge these two things 535 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: together and add a little bit of Christian flavor of 536 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: our own, which is definitely referred to in the manifesto 537 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: and often the side tiles kind of heaven idea, we 538 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: can kind of think of what happened at the end 539 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: of two thousand one as being human and science, or 540 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: maybe alien and science resurrection or reanimation of human molecules 541 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: as whole humans in space, therefore creating heaven and space, 542 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: fulfilling God's like quote unquote promise to resurrect dead people 543 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: after heaven in heaven. Right, So so we would do 544 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: that through we would fulfill his promise as humans through 545 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 1: science which he gave us. Okay, these are all like, 546 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: this is like the train of thought. We're following through 547 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: that train of thought, the Toynbee resurrection, once dead can 548 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: come alive again a human without a soul, without a 549 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: body two thousand one curate kind of saying, oh, well, 550 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: obviously we're going to resurrect ourselves in space in Jupiter, 551 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: which is where they went. It was Project Jupiter in 552 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: two thousand one. So maybe the movie is about humans 553 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: being resurrected in Jupiter, which is you know, if you just, like, 554 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: according to some documents that have been procured, um, if 555 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: you would just you know, like put an oxygen bomb 556 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: on Jupiter, it would turn into a totally human hospitable environment. Yeah. No, 557 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: obviously that's a problem. But that Jupiter would become heaven 558 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: in space and we would be able to resurrect are 559 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: dead there and that would be heaven. It's a heck 560 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: of a son that, Yeah, that would be Um. I mean, 561 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: I don't know I don't remember what the gravity is 562 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 1: on Jupiter, but it's staggeringly higher than ours is. So yeah, 563 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: the theory is the visibility is terrible. But I did 564 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: think it was interesting to think about. And this is 565 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: something that's been discovered since this whole like two doesn't 566 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: want everything, is that it turns out that one of 567 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: Jupiter's moons may actually be a fairly viable terraforming place. 568 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: And I could be misremembering this, but it's like almost 569 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: an ice planet, and they think that there's actually like 570 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: surface underneath there. So it's got a lot of water 571 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: and it's like a surface, so like if we could 572 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: just dry it out a little bit, I don't think 573 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: the Yeah, I mean, it's never gonna be habitable with 574 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: an atmosphere, and the only the only planet really we 575 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: have any chance of terraforming could be Mars. It's it's 576 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: because they because it's covered in ice, they can tell 577 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: that there's some They believe that there's some kind of 578 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: either tectonic or tidal forces being exerted on the planet 579 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: because of the way that the ice moves and cracks 580 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: and breaks, and they believe that it's liquid underneath, and 581 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: so it's some more, it's just so much of terraforming 582 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: as it's plausible to actually have life on it. It's 583 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: in the fluid or water underneath this ice. Plus uh 584 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: you know. The other thing of note and interest about 585 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: it is it might might make a really nice little resource. 586 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: I mean, if you have space qualities out there, it's 587 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: full of water, methane, whatever, those are highly useful things. Yeah, yeah, 588 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: probably so. I you know, I guess that was my 589 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: own little interesting tidbit that like, okay, Jupiter, probably not 590 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: like but something really close to Jupiter maybe probably not again, 591 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: but who knows. You know, it's only been like what 592 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: forty years since fifty years since uh two one came out, 593 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: it's been it came out in years, So in that 594 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,879 Speaker 1: amount of time we've done incredible things. So who's to say, 595 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, another forty five years another whatever, we wouldn't 596 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: be like, oh no, obviously we're going to colonize europea 597 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: like duh, or it was Mars all along, you know, 598 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: who knows? Who knows? So we're good with kind of 599 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: what it might mean, right, I mean, I guess I'm 600 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: not good with it, but I can understand. I mean, 601 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: the better theory, No, no, I don't have a theory. 602 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: I think that this one. The theories are kind of 603 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: far fetched, at least from my perspective, okay, but the 604 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: message is so vague that the far fetched idea is 605 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: the closest to being plausible. So when I say I'm 606 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: not okay with it, it's just because it doesn't make 607 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: sense to me. The whole thing still is just really 608 00:34:55,160 --> 00:35:00,399 Speaker 1: really odd to me. It really, you're right, does make 609 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: no sense. I mean, this message makes no sense, and 610 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: let's just some sort of a code. Yeah, So I guess, um, 611 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: I think that this interpretation, when you can kind of 612 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: take it in with this overarching idea of who may 613 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: have done them and felt, yeah, I guess in the context, 614 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: makes some sense. You know, there's these side tiles that 615 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: crop ups. You see these pictures, It's like a license 616 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: plate sized tile that has the like four lines the 617 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: toy idea in two thousand one space or not two 618 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 1: s in cubics, or a movie two thousand one resurrected 619 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 1: on planet Jupiter. And then there are these like little 620 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: side messages and they are often I think, more interesting, 621 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:56,359 Speaker 1: You're more informative. It's super repetitive. Okay, So like here's 622 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: a picture of like one of the original ones, and 623 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,920 Speaker 1: we can see if we can see the what are 624 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: you doing kind of looking at it from different angle? 625 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,799 Speaker 1: That's why I'm turning my head like this, because I'm 626 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 1: trying to I'm just trying to see if there's perhaps 627 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: something that we're missing. Maybe it's a draw exactly what, 628 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 1: because you feel like it's like it's one of those 629 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: mysteries where you feel like the answer is on the 630 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,240 Speaker 1: tip of your brain, right, It's like there's an obvious 631 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: answer here that we are just too dumb to see. 632 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: Don't you feel that way right now? Do you remember 633 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: in the nineties when those those images were being everybody 634 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: was selling and it was just a super fine print 635 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: of some repetitive pattern, and you were supposed to stare 636 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,240 Speaker 1: at it for about five minutes and the real image 637 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: would hop forward. Ye see it, because the way it was, 638 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: I think, I think that's where Joe might be heading here. 639 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: I still figured out, yeah, but I don't see the schooner. 640 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: But this phenomena is exactly what I'm talking about. When 641 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: you like start to get into this, you just keep thinking, well, 642 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: there's got to be something that somebody missed or we're 643 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: just like overlooking the obvious answer. That's not. Yeah, there isn't. 644 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,399 Speaker 1: I mean, I suppose that you could say, is that 645 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: if you look at the wide outline part, but it 646 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: almost looks like it's sort of a crude drawing of 647 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: a zigaratte. And I don't know if you and you've 648 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: heard the story, of course about the Tower of Babel, 649 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: which really wasn't a tower at all. It was a 650 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: cigarette yea, and a cigarette is zigarette is like a 651 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: sort of like like flattened pyramids popular ancient civilizations in 652 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: the Middle East. You know, the Tower of Babble was 653 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: basically about the collapse of a civilization. Um and to 654 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,399 Speaker 1: one of recurring themes, was spent a lot of time 655 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 1: thinking about and writing about how civilizations collapse and why 656 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: the why civilizations parish, you know, why they flourished for 657 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: a while and then eventually they crumble and they go away. Okay, 658 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: it's a long shot. I know, it's got as much 659 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 1: validity as anything else that we've come across here so far, 660 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 1: so I'm I'm willing to back it. That's a message 661 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: about Babel. Can you understand the message now? Yeah? Yeah, 662 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: of course not we're going to crumble. So okay, side 663 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: texts is where we were starting before I got off 664 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: on my little tangent there. Sorry about that again. You know, 665 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,799 Speaker 1: they're they're pretty interesting, um, and a lot of the 666 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: old original tiles, the old style tiles are pretty destroyed 667 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: at this point. I mean, Lilyam isn't the most durable 668 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: when they're in the middle of the street, and when 669 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: cities are like really actively trying to cover them up. Well, 670 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: let's even talk about I mean, you see some of 671 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: the photos and you can tell that the main exterior, 672 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: your piece of linolium has worn or been pulled away, 673 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 1: and all this left are the letters and then they 674 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,279 Speaker 1: start moving on that that tar substrate and suddenly it 675 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: looks like alphabet soup because they're all just jammed together 676 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 1: and it's unreadable. So yeah, these things, I'm guessing what 677 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: they have a two year three year life show, well 678 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 1: at the best. So I guess that's kind of part 679 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: of it is that there are some that are in 680 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 1: like Philly Philadelphia that have been around since the eighties. 681 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: Probably depends on the amount of traffic they they're not. Um, 682 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: Philadelphia isn't actively trying to pave over them. And Philadelphia 683 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 1: is one of those places where they don't pave a 684 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,720 Speaker 1: lot have money for they don't really have that. So 685 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: and Philadelphia is the epicenter of these It is I 686 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: think accepted at this point. I would say pretty much 687 00:39:54,760 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: everybody agrees that the Tyler lived in Philadelphia. And probably yeah, 688 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: and we'll talk a little bit, isn't Bruce Willis from Philadelphia? Yeah, 689 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: I think we solved it. Yeah, so okay, Chile hard Um. 690 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 1: So there are these little side guys. So, like one 691 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: of them says, and this is like a really destroyed tile, um, 692 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,720 Speaker 1: but somehow the sidebar has stuck around more than the tile. 693 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: This one says, I'm only one man. When I got 694 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: a fatal disease, they gloated, enjoy over its death. It's death. Yeah. 695 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: So another one says you must make in glue tiles 696 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: you as media is and there's like a missing chunk, 697 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: and then it says you must make in glue tile 698 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:53,479 Speaker 1: you must as media ussa. And then another one, which 699 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,359 Speaker 1: is really interesting, it says, I'm only one man, and 700 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: when I caught a fatal disease, they gloated over its death. 701 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: That's when I it's broken up. They I think it's 702 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: begged them not to destroy thank you and something because 703 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,399 Speaker 1: it's again it's it's just it's like that, it's just like, 704 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: come off the Yeah, these side tiles are just really 705 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: really interesting. Um well, it seems like the side tiles 706 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,439 Speaker 1: are where the personality of the tyler actually comes through 707 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 1: paroid personality. So yeah, so the side tiles and then 708 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 1: particularly the what they call the manifesto tile are what 709 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,879 Speaker 1: for me makes this a real thing because I think 710 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: it's very easy to look at these tiles and say, oh, 711 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: this is someone's art project, right is it was the 712 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,799 Speaker 1: early eighties too, Like early odds, there's a time when 713 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people are doing experimental surrealist art. All right, 714 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: So it's just somebody who's like got an art project 715 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: going on. They've got some kind of nonsense phrase that 716 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 1: they're just regurgitating over and over again. Let's say that 717 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: they're putting down knowing that people who got a puzzle 718 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 1: overord for totally for years. Yeah. So the manifesto, you 719 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: guys have both seen that it's a set of four 720 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 1: linoleum tiles and it has hundreds of words on it. 721 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: And I have a transcript of what it says um, 722 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,800 Speaker 1: but it's really paranoid, and I think it's worth hearing. 723 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: So Steve, Yeah, I can run this. Not that I'm 724 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,719 Speaker 1: the paranoid of the group. Well you might be, though, 725 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 1: No I'm not. Stop looking, No I'm not. Really. Yeah, 726 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,760 Speaker 1: let's let's go ahead and do this. So John Knight, 727 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,280 Speaker 1: owner of the Philadelphia Inquired Hell you and Jew, who's 728 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: hated this movement's guts for years, takes money from the 729 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,280 Speaker 1: mafia to make the mafia look good in his newspapers, 730 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: so he has the mafia in his back pocket. John 731 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 1: Knight sent the mafia to murder me in May. There's 732 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 1: an unreadable bit. Journalists, all of them gloated in my 733 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:14,360 Speaker 1: face about my death and night ritters great power to destroy. 734 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: In fact, John Knight went into helly and binge of 735 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: joy over Night Ritters great power to destroy. I secured 736 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 1: house with blast doors and fled the country. In June, 737 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: NBC attorneys, journalists, and security officials at Rockefeller Center fraudulently 738 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,880 Speaker 1: something has disappeared Under the Freedom of Information Act. All 739 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: orders of NBC executives got the US Federal District Attorney's 740 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 1: opposite office, and I got the FBI to get interpolled 741 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 1: to establish task force that located me in Dover, England, 742 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: when back Home, Inquirer got union goons from their own 743 00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:00,719 Speaker 1: employer union to send out a sports journalists who with 744 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,800 Speaker 1: baseball bat bashed in lights and windows of neighborhood cars 745 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,799 Speaker 1: as well as men outside my house. They stationed there 746 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:17,759 Speaker 1: still waiting for me. NBC, CBS, Group, W, Westinghouse, Time, Time, Warner, Fox, Universal, 747 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 1: all of the Cult of the Hellion each were much 748 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: worse than night Ridder ever, was mostly Hellion Jews. When 749 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: k y W and n By, NBC executives told John Knight, 750 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:35,000 Speaker 1: the whole coven gloated on how their Soviet pals had 751 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: found a way to turn it into a that's a 752 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,880 Speaker 1: little bit paranoid and that's that's that's that's that's a screen. 753 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: That's not a manifesto to me, that's a screen that's 754 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,320 Speaker 1: definitely paranoise. Well what did that? What did that appear? 755 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: It was discovered in seven and I think it looked 756 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,800 Speaker 1: like it was a little aged aged. So this it's 757 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,959 Speaker 1: it's had it had been about let's just say twelve, 758 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: the fifteen years before from the originals to when this 759 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: happened I'm I'm encapsulating start to win that one totally. Um. Yes. 760 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:16,880 Speaker 1: So And the other thing that strikes me about this 761 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 1: is that, like you know, you're talking how the handwriting 762 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 1: looks really really like the handwriting is really consistent throughout 763 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,400 Speaker 1: all of the original like old style and hand writing, 764 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 1: and this is also super consistent. But this is not 765 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,120 Speaker 1: a planned This is not something that somebody writes and 766 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,719 Speaker 1: then reads and it's like yeah that reads well, this 767 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 1: is something that somebody like scribbles out this carson as 768 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: they go with carving as they went. Totally um. And 769 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:51,799 Speaker 1: handwriting is still like really consistent, and it's so paranoid. 770 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: And this is on what I look at in the pictures. 771 00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 1: It looks like it's it's for one foot square tie els. 772 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 1: Would that be pretty close to accurate? Yeah? So they're 773 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: like a standard um like a linoleum tiles by eight 774 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: or twelve twelve something like that. So I mean it's this, 775 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:16,759 Speaker 1: all of that text is in a sixteen by sixteen 776 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:21,000 Speaker 1: or twenty four by twenty four inch square area and 777 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: it's actually it turns out legible, yeah, totally legible. And 778 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,359 Speaker 1: this is where in Philadelphia. Yeah. So the the other 779 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:32,200 Speaker 1: really interesting thing about this whole situation is that in 780 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:37,839 Speaker 1: ninety three there was a small little article published in 781 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:43,760 Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Inquirer about the ideas of the Minority Association 782 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:50,919 Speaker 1: and the Toynbee idea to resurrect Dead on Jupiter ideas resurrected. Yeah, 783 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,719 Speaker 1: so this whole like the idea, right, Toybee idea here 784 00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: space odyssey, this has been propagated ostensibly for a while before. 785 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,880 Speaker 1: And there was an article written in the Inquirer that 786 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,560 Speaker 1: was a reference to Philadelphia based campaign to resurrect Dead 787 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,560 Speaker 1: on Jupiter that didn't ever, it didn't reference the tiles, 788 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,839 Speaker 1: but it may have been pre tiles um and all 789 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,040 Speaker 1: of the ideas that were spoken about in this article 790 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: in the Inquirer, which they referenced in the manifesto. Tiles 791 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:26,400 Speaker 1: pretty frequently are there. That's odd. So I don't know 792 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:31,520 Speaker 1: how the article talked about this idea to resurrected it, 793 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:36,720 Speaker 1: but it didn't actually mentions. Okay, so the article again 794 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,719 Speaker 1: it's this like little, this little tidbit of prehistory, and 795 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,640 Speaker 1: the only place I've ever heard of it is in 796 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,840 Speaker 1: this documentary and in this group that did this research 797 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,160 Speaker 1: for this documentary. In the like prehistory of the tiles 798 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:53,360 Speaker 1: in the Minority Association Umn. They went deep down the 799 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:58,400 Speaker 1: rabbit hole. Again. I will direct you to said documentary. 800 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: If you're really interested in this, be aware that your 801 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:07,480 Speaker 1: life will be sucked in. You may. But they found 802 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,360 Speaker 1: this article in the Inquirer, and I think it was 803 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,000 Speaker 1: titled you want to run that by me? Again? Yes, 804 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,360 Speaker 1: it had this interview, not interview, but it had this 805 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,239 Speaker 1: information from a guy who had written in from He 806 00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:26,200 Speaker 1: claimed to be from the Minority Association. Uh. And he 807 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:32,680 Speaker 1: said his name was Joe Morocco, Morosco, Morosco, James Morosco, 808 00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,399 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and he was part of this group called 809 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,560 Speaker 1: the Minority Association and they were working on a campaign 810 00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,640 Speaker 1: to resurrect dead people on planet Jupiter. And it was 811 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,160 Speaker 1: like a four paragraph long maybe at the most article. 812 00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,200 Speaker 1: It wasn't real big. But the fact that the manifesto 813 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,720 Speaker 1: like kind of schizoid like ramblings of a crazy person 814 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,600 Speaker 1: talk about the Inquirer that much is very interesting to me, 815 00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,880 Speaker 1: because is um as far as I understand it, those 816 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,360 Speaker 1: that wasn't made public, like they didn't make the archives 817 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,640 Speaker 1: public until early two thousand's and I could be wrong 818 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,440 Speaker 1: about that, but that's just as far as I know. 819 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,319 Speaker 1: So that's interesting to me. That's an interesting little like pin. 820 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 1: I don't have a good answer. I don't have a 821 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:24,080 Speaker 1: good reason. Yeah, except that they may be the same person. Yeah, yeah, 822 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,200 Speaker 1: I don't know that that one's a I know that 823 00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,919 Speaker 1: in the documentary that is a giant leap for them. 824 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,840 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I'm not. Yeah, I'm not so convinced. 825 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:39,760 Speaker 1: But that's just because this thing is so fragmented. Yeah, 826 00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,759 Speaker 1: it is really fragmented. And you know, when you try 827 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,319 Speaker 1: to make sense out of something like this, you have 828 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,200 Speaker 1: to accept the fact also that it sounds like whoever 829 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,200 Speaker 1: created these things was probably mentally imbalanced. So trying to 830 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,600 Speaker 1: make sense out of insanity can can really kind of 831 00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: drive you insane. Yeah. Maybe. Well, and the other the 832 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 1: other dangerous part about and we've I know, all three 833 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,839 Speaker 1: of us have fallen in this. When researching something is 834 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:12,640 Speaker 1: we see, let's say, a hint of a name, and 835 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 1: we and I'm simplifying this greatly, but we get a 836 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,800 Speaker 1: name in our head of how it should be spelled, 837 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:27,919 Speaker 1: and so we are madly researching that spelling of that name, 838 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:33,640 Speaker 1: not taking into consideration that Moroscoe could be spelled differently 839 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,359 Speaker 1: because in the movie they make a point there's one 840 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,759 Speaker 1: guy named James Morosco in the area that they can find, 841 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,759 Speaker 1: and he's nowhere near where he's supposed to be. But 842 00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,800 Speaker 1: then you go and you think, well, they keep spelling 843 00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,239 Speaker 1: it one way. Well, I can think of when I 844 00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,320 Speaker 1: looked at the name, about three or four different ways 845 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,719 Speaker 1: that I could perceive that being spelled. So then what 846 00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:59,120 Speaker 1: happens and then it branches out and it gets even harder, 847 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,279 Speaker 1: particularly if it was like a phone interview, and I 848 00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,000 Speaker 1: don't know that that was ever specified. And again this 849 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,920 Speaker 1: is this this kind of like pre tile situation that 850 00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,120 Speaker 1: I don't I really don't think we should go too 851 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 1: far into. I think we're already going there. We have 852 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,480 Speaker 1: been a little bit. So I guess the only place 853 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:20,120 Speaker 1: that this leaves us is to talk about who may 854 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:26,000 Speaker 1: have done this right, who this person might be according 855 00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,440 Speaker 1: to that manifesto. Maybe so I guess there are three 856 00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:33,840 Speaker 1: kind of good suspects that they talk about, and they 857 00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:35,960 Speaker 1: talk about this in the documentary, but they also like 858 00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,920 Speaker 1: just wide why it's widely accepted that these are kind 859 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:43,680 Speaker 1: of the three main people. One is called Railroad Joe. 860 00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,080 Speaker 1: One is James Moresco, and one is a man by 861 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:52,600 Speaker 1: the name of Sevy Verna. So why should we believe 862 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,560 Speaker 1: that any of these guys did it. Well, we'll get 863 00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,080 Speaker 1: into that in like literally right now, Okay, perfect alright, 864 00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,960 Speaker 1: railroad Joe. Okay. I guess I should preface this all 865 00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,200 Speaker 1: by saying there was a tile found in South America 866 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,040 Speaker 1: and it was the first and only accepted original or 867 00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:14,080 Speaker 1: old style tile to have been found outside of the US. Okay, 868 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,880 Speaker 1: and it had a po box and a street address 869 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:23,279 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia, which then everybody's lashed onto, yes to find 870 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:28,680 Speaker 1: their point of origin, because I mean it makes sense, right, Like, Okay, yes, 871 00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:33,160 Speaker 1: we're dealing with potentially a mentally unhinged person. But why 872 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,000 Speaker 1: would somebody write down just like a random street address 873 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,960 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia and leave it in South America attached to 874 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:43,520 Speaker 1: this idea unless they wanted people to pay attention to 875 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,799 Speaker 1: that street address. Well, but I wanted to harass the 876 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,040 Speaker 1: person I was about to say, unless they consider the 877 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,160 Speaker 1: person that's there to be an enemy of some kind, 878 00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,000 Speaker 1: and then this is a great way to get revenge. 879 00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:01,319 Speaker 1: That's true, South America. Traveling all the way to South 880 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,239 Speaker 1: America to do that it's not that's a little weird. 881 00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,719 Speaker 1: It's a little weird. Well, but you know, I mean, 882 00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,160 Speaker 1: stranger things have happened. But I'm just saying, and again, 883 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,240 Speaker 1: this is one of those things, Okay, but we're always 884 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,040 Speaker 1: looking at it as at face value. This is truthful 885 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,399 Speaker 1: in terms of I put this down so you'll find me, 886 00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:25,359 Speaker 1: instead of subterfuge. I'm gonna put this down so you 887 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,720 Speaker 1: don't find me. But now you're gonna bug the heck 888 00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,520 Speaker 1: out of this guy who has been my mortal enemy. 889 00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:36,640 Speaker 1: So yes, my counter to that is that if you 890 00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,640 Speaker 1: walk in within like a three block radius of this place, 891 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:46,399 Speaker 1: you find these little trial runs of the tiles. They're 892 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:51,560 Speaker 1: just little like bits of linoleum or kind of like nonsense, 893 00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,120 Speaker 1: just letter engravings that are embedded in the asphalt. They're tiny, 894 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,759 Speaker 1: they're little scraps, they're cast offs, both in the three 895 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,479 Speaker 1: block radius of this one apartment. And yeah, of course, 896 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,880 Speaker 1: if you that's the greatest form of misdirection is to 897 00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:11,839 Speaker 1: name the suspect and then start dropping clues around or 898 00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:16,000 Speaker 1: evidence around that suspect. That's true. I'm not buying into that, 899 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,040 Speaker 1: but I'm going to take the skeptic standpoint on this 900 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,239 Speaker 1: and say, if we're gonna run, if I'm going to 901 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,080 Speaker 1: run with the I did this to get that guy, 902 00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:27,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. Well, you know what, It's really easy. 903 00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:30,440 Speaker 1: Once a month, I go to his neighborhood and just 904 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,280 Speaker 1: drop some of my scrap garbage that I've been making 905 00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:38,520 Speaker 1: these with and just walk away. Yeah, and looking they're 906 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,600 Speaker 1: all knugging at his door. That's awesome. That's totally true. 907 00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,879 Speaker 1: I think that's a great point to bring up, because 908 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,520 Speaker 1: I think that's a point that's not brought up enough. However, 909 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,239 Speaker 1: since I'm presenting this history, I have to take the 910 00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:57,319 Speaker 1: totally believers to okay. So um, there's been a lot 911 00:54:57,400 --> 00:54:59,680 Speaker 1: of research done in this area, and as far as 912 00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:01,960 Speaker 1: any and he can remember, there's only been to people 913 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,239 Speaker 1: who ever lived in this this at this address. One 914 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,920 Speaker 1: was railroad Joe. That's what they call him. I don't 915 00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,200 Speaker 1: remember his whole name. I don't think it's super important. 916 00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,359 Speaker 1: That was what everybody called. Everybody calls him railroad Joe 917 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,719 Speaker 1: because he worked on a railroad. Out on a railroad. 918 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,120 Speaker 1: It's a tongue twister for me, I'm sorry, on conway 919 00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,839 Speaker 1: rail or conrail. So one of the things they talked 920 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,360 Speaker 1: about with this guy is that they do some familial 921 00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:34,880 Speaker 1: research on him, and his family were gravestone engravers. So 922 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,160 Speaker 1: that's a let's look pretty easy to make, you know, 923 00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:43,040 Speaker 1: somebody handwriting and totally be a quick carver. Right, It's 924 00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,160 Speaker 1: not like this would be taking new days to do 925 00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,040 Speaker 1: because you might be great at it might just take 926 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,960 Speaker 1: you an hour or two or maybe less. Also, Conrail 927 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:55,240 Speaker 1: at the time that this man was working for Conrail, Uh, 928 00:55:55,280 --> 00:56:01,799 Speaker 1: their railway lines perfectly mirrored the spread of where the 929 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,279 Speaker 1: original tiles have all been found, so all of the 930 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,520 Speaker 1: major city. Okay, but wait, no, that's not true. Act, 931 00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,520 Speaker 1: so it only goes as far south as Conrail went. 932 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,080 Speaker 1: It only goes as far west as Conrail went, and 933 00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:18,400 Speaker 1: it stopped in every single major city which major city, okay, 934 00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,400 Speaker 1: major city. However, in the same in the same time 935 00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:26,000 Speaker 1: that he was working for this rail system, there's an 936 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,359 Speaker 1: article to prove this that names him by name as 937 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:34,560 Speaker 1: the railway foreman for Conrail. Conrail was shipping a telescope 938 00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,200 Speaker 1: that was made in Philadelphia to South America where they 939 00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:45,240 Speaker 1: found that one tile. Conrail was Apparently they were yeah, 940 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,040 Speaker 1: I don't remember if they were building it or if 941 00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,600 Speaker 1: they were involved in there. Somehow they were involved because 942 00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,560 Speaker 1: there was an article that was written about the shipping 943 00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:56,800 Speaker 1: of this telescope and that this guy was named Railroad 944 00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,480 Speaker 1: Joe was named by first and last name as being 945 00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:06,239 Speaker 1: the railway foreman for this project. So that's an interesting 946 00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,800 Speaker 1: The only thing about this is that Railway Joe, Railroad 947 00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:19,360 Speaker 1: Joe died. Okay, there's a problem. When did the Chile appear. 948 00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,760 Speaker 1: It was in the early eighties. He would have been alive, 949 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:27,280 Speaker 1: but their tiles have been dated too much later than 950 00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,880 Speaker 1: that in the correct style. In the correct style, it 951 00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:32,920 Speaker 1: would have been the original ones. So he would have 952 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,680 Speaker 1: had been laying them past the grave, which doesn't seem 953 00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:44,360 Speaker 1: super likely. That's maybe he was successful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 954 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,240 Speaker 1: I think he's been. He's been traveling for commuting, if 955 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:53,000 Speaker 1: you will. So James Moresco, next one who's named in 956 00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:58,000 Speaker 1: the he's named in the Inquirer article. He's also okay, 957 00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:59,439 Speaker 1: So I guess we do have to delve a little 958 00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:03,040 Speaker 1: bit into this back history of the Minority Association. And 959 00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,520 Speaker 1: there was this press packet that went out and there 960 00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:09,200 Speaker 1: were these wheat paste posters that went up in the 961 00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:13,440 Speaker 1: early eighties. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a wheat 962 00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:19,560 Speaker 1: paste poster is literally you slap paste when you're in 963 00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:23,840 Speaker 1: grade school paste. It's some version of that onto a 964 00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:26,720 Speaker 1: poster and then just slapping against the wall to adhere 965 00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:28,880 Speaker 1: it rather than using a staple or tape or something 966 00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,440 Speaker 1: like that. That's what a wheat paste posters. Yeah, okay, 967 00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,440 Speaker 1: just making sure I was under are the ones that 968 00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,080 Speaker 1: like stick up for years and years? Yeah, you cannot 969 00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,080 Speaker 1: because they're sealed, and okay, you got it. Just making 970 00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,840 Speaker 1: sure I understood that. And where did disappear in Philadelphia? 971 00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:46,640 Speaker 1: In kind of like lower income hubs, so like greyhound stations, 972 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:50,880 Speaker 1: union station, things like that. And they had the same 973 00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,680 Speaker 1: messaging that the tiles do. And that's about as far 974 00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:56,400 Speaker 1: as I'm willing really to go in. It wasn't the 975 00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,760 Speaker 1: same verbiage, but the same idea, same idea. Okay. So 976 00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:05,960 Speaker 1: the Minority Association is fairly widely accepted to be the 977 00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:12,360 Speaker 1: predecessor to these tiles, and on all of the media information, 978 00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:14,760 Speaker 1: they had this press packet that we talked about a 979 00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:18,320 Speaker 1: little bit earlier. The name that appears is James Moresco. 980 00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,280 Speaker 1: He's a good candidate, so he was the spokesman. He 981 00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:26,560 Speaker 1: was there. He was there's publicity manager essentially, but you know, 982 00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:31,240 Speaker 1: as we were just talking a client, he probably served 983 00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,360 Speaker 1: as in every every SEP. Actually he probably was the 984 00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:37,520 Speaker 1: entire organization. Here's the thing is that actually he didn't. 985 00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:41,160 Speaker 1: It was him and his brother and his his brother's 986 00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:46,720 Speaker 1: wife and like one other person. And there's actually apparently 987 00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,920 Speaker 1: some kind of signed documentation of this that there were 988 00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:55,400 Speaker 1: more than just him involved. Anyways, Um, so there's been 989 00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:59,160 Speaker 1: some searches on this name based on any information that 990 00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:03,920 Speaker 1: could be gained from the journalist that wrote this article. 991 01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:09,919 Speaker 1: And there was one guy named James Moresco who would 992 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:11,800 Speaker 1: have been in his seventies. He's the one you read 993 01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,600 Speaker 1: about when you just do like a prolifer google search 994 01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:19,880 Speaker 1: on Toynbe tiles, because he's the one that comes up there. 995 01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:21,800 Speaker 1: That's the one that they say. But he would have 996 01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:23,920 Speaker 1: been in his seventies or eighties when the tiles were 997 01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,880 Speaker 1: being laid. But we think he's the best candidate. It's 998 01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:33,919 Speaker 1: because again this is where I say spelling right. Alternately, 999 01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:36,880 Speaker 1: the theory was floated, and I think this is probably 1000 01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,320 Speaker 1: the strongest theory, is that it was a pseudo name. 1001 01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,920 Speaker 1: M hmm. Yeah, And that it was actually the guy 1002 01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:49,560 Speaker 1: who lived at the address after Railroad Joe died, named 1003 01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:54,840 Speaker 1: sevy Verna, who was has been discounted because his mother 1004 01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,560 Speaker 1: says he has a lung disease. Therefore he's never been 1005 01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:01,960 Speaker 1: able to travel. He's bit of a shot. He's totally 1006 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,480 Speaker 1: he's a super shut in, which he really ever sees 1007 01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:09,000 Speaker 1: him could make it possible that he is or completely 1008 01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:15,560 Speaker 1: plausible that he isn't. He was attacked in the in 1009 01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:19,120 Speaker 1: in his home over this. He was not over this, 1010 01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:23,800 Speaker 1: it was over a different dispute ute because of that, 1011 01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,040 Speaker 1: he it has been documented by his neighbors that he 1012 01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:31,959 Speaker 1: put up plywood in his windows and barred his door 1013 01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:36,080 Speaker 1: just like that manifesto says the person did. He's really 1014 01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,640 Speaker 1: really smart apparently and totally a shut in and kind 1015 01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,560 Speaker 1: of crazy. He apparently drove a car that was missing 1016 01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:47,960 Speaker 1: a fourboard um and also had this giant antenna that 1017 01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:53,360 Speaker 1: broadcasted like a kind of pirate radio short wave thing. 1018 01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,720 Speaker 1: And again that's something that like I don't even want 1019 01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:00,440 Speaker 1: to touch. But the short wave connection, short wave connection, 1020 01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,160 Speaker 1: if you're super interested, go look it up. There's no 1021 01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:09,080 Speaker 1: that's so far down there. That's another at least. Yeah. Additionally, 1022 01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,720 Speaker 1: in these papers that were uncovered of this original kind 1023 01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:18,680 Speaker 1: of minority association situation, all of the all of the 1024 01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:24,520 Speaker 1: references to themselves referred to James Moresco, with one exception 1025 01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:28,160 Speaker 1: that appears to be a typo which refers to themselves 1026 01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:33,840 Speaker 1: as Sevrino virna. So we messed up and broke characters 1027 01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:37,880 Speaker 1: way there. It's that's what that infers. Yeah, so it 1028 01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:40,320 Speaker 1: seems to be a fairly strong connection to this guy 1029 01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,960 Speaker 1: who lives in the place where the tile referred people. 1030 01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:45,960 Speaker 1: He's kind of crazy, he's kind of a shut in, 1031 01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,720 Speaker 1: and the neighbors kind of describe him as this without 1032 01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:54,960 Speaker 1: it seems, knowing anything about the situation. You know, these 1033 01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:56,920 Speaker 1: are people you say, hey, tell me, can you tell 1034 01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,280 Speaker 1: me a little about this guy? And they say, oh, yeah, 1035 01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:01,720 Speaker 1: he's um, he's really really smart, and he's kind of shutting, 1036 01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,240 Speaker 1: he's really shy, he's very scared. Oh and he drove 1037 01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:07,440 Speaker 1: this car that like I think like the bottom rusted out, 1038 01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:09,720 Speaker 1: like just to kind of tell people how eccentric this 1039 01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,080 Speaker 1: guy was, without having knowledge of the fact that people 1040 01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,240 Speaker 1: think that he's the tyler. And again, this is hard 1041 01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:19,080 Speaker 1: to verify this, right, Okay. You and I talked about 1042 01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:23,000 Speaker 1: this before we started recording to night, is that this 1043 01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:28,280 Speaker 1: is one of those A plus F draws conclusion of 1044 01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:33,360 Speaker 1: c kind of scenarios to me, which is not always 1045 01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,440 Speaker 1: the right way to approach it, but it's the easy 1046 01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:41,080 Speaker 1: thing to see and go to. The example. The example 1047 01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:44,920 Speaker 1: that you and I talked about is in the documentary 1048 01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:49,000 Speaker 1: they talk about where some of them the text could 1049 01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,760 Speaker 1: come from, and there was that play or was it 1050 01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,360 Speaker 1: a play? Yeah, David Mammitt, Yeah, Free Am is the 1051 01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:57,480 Speaker 1: name of it, which all it's a play. It's a 1052 01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:01,400 Speaker 1: two man play about somebody calling into a radio DJ 1053 01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,840 Speaker 1: and spouting all these crazy ideas, which are very in 1054 01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:12,720 Speaker 1: line with some of the stuff. Yeah, it's very very close. Okay, 1055 01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,640 Speaker 1: Well I'm going to make a jump in the same 1056 01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:17,720 Speaker 1: kind of logical quell. Okay, and I guess we should 1057 01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:20,200 Speaker 1: like add caveat to that is that David Mammett believes 1058 01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,640 Speaker 1: that these tiles are a homage to his play, So 1059 01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:25,120 Speaker 1: let's just throw that out there. Yeah, but I'm I'm 1060 01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,960 Speaker 1: just trying to get across this why people jump to 1061 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,520 Speaker 1: say it's sevy. Is this this basic I'm following this 1062 01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:34,200 Speaker 1: train and it just seems so easy. Okay, Well, when 1063 01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:37,400 Speaker 1: I was watching the documentary, one of the guys and 1064 01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:39,880 Speaker 1: I think it's I can't remember who it was. Just 1065 01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:45,560 Speaker 1: as he finds a freshly laid tile that has been 1066 01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:49,360 Speaker 1: on the ground for minutes because he peels at a party, 1067 01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,520 Speaker 1: discovers it and he says, I was I went to 1068 01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:56,280 Speaker 1: the store and it must have been about four am 1069 01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,280 Speaker 1: in the morning, and then I found this. Okay, well, 1070 01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,640 Speaker 1: I can run this logic that says, well, they're following 1071 01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,320 Speaker 1: part of that. They're now incorporating the play which is 1072 01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:08,520 Speaker 1: called four am, which is supposed to be the time 1073 01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:10,600 Speaker 1: that this call was made in this call in show, 1074 01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:14,440 Speaker 1: and whoever is doing this is now as an homage 1075 01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,920 Speaker 1: following that and dropping these things at four a m. 1076 01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:20,760 Speaker 1: And now let's go okay, well to me, okay, well, 1077 01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:23,240 Speaker 1: let's just follow well, okay, yeah, you can see the 1078 01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,080 Speaker 1: logic in that, and that could get build steam and 1079 01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:31,680 Speaker 1: get built upon. But it's a connection that is very, 1080 01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,120 Speaker 1: very loose, and I think that it's only by the 1081 01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:38,600 Speaker 1: pounding of feet on top of it that it gets 1082 01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:41,479 Speaker 1: so strong. So that's that's my thing. When everybody says 1083 01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:45,560 Speaker 1: the sevy, I actually feel bad for seven. Well, and 1084 01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:49,520 Speaker 1: so here's my thing about Sevy is his mother says 1085 01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:54,640 Speaker 1: that he has this this long disease, and the tiles 1086 01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:59,400 Speaker 1: very clearly refer to this man having a terminal disease 1087 01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,520 Speaker 1: of some kind and struggling with the idea of death. 1088 01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:07,120 Speaker 1: And I think that the man that you've described as 1089 01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:10,760 Speaker 1: this kind of manic, reclusive, really smart, the kind of 1090 01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:14,240 Speaker 1: scared man who may have signed kind of mental thing, 1091 01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:18,120 Speaker 1: who's also struggling with a terminal illness. He I just think, 1092 01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:21,640 Speaker 1: I just feel like he really fits the image that 1093 01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:24,000 Speaker 1: you have of the kind of person that would make 1094 01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:30,360 Speaker 1: these tiles. Yeah. Again, my problem is you've built that. 1095 01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:33,360 Speaker 1: They totally built that image, and and and it's it's 1096 01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:38,960 Speaker 1: it's almost too conveniently molded. That's my problem. That's totally 1097 01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:44,080 Speaker 1: it's almost seems too easy. Absolutely, So let me ter 1098 01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:46,160 Speaker 1: up for a second. So this guy is how old now? 1099 01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,640 Speaker 1: And is he's still alive? Yeah, he's um, I think 1100 01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:53,320 Speaker 1: in his but he would have been in his early 1101 01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:56,120 Speaker 1: twenties when these things first started kind of which was 1102 01:06:56,160 --> 01:07:04,480 Speaker 1: the eighties. Yeah, mid seventies when all this stuff happens. Okay, 1103 01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:08,960 Speaker 1: and so and then he moved in after um Roadroad, 1104 01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:14,200 Speaker 1: after Railroad Joe, he moved in there or maybe earlier. 1105 01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:15,880 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know that, I haven't seen 1106 01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:18,640 Speaker 1: the record. He maybe that Railroad Joe moved out to 1107 01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:22,400 Speaker 1: live in a facility while he died or something. But 1108 01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:25,560 Speaker 1: in the Railroad Joe was remembered to have lived there 1109 01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:28,720 Speaker 1: in the very early eighties at the very least. Yeah, yeah, 1110 01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,120 Speaker 1: so so interesting. Yeah, I wonder if Railroad Joe maybe 1111 01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:34,800 Speaker 1: laid some of the original ones down for the year 1112 01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,040 Speaker 1: funt of it and then moved out lesson on those 1113 01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:41,600 Speaker 1: materials behind. Maybe it was just a continuation, and you know, 1114 01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:43,680 Speaker 1: that was that was the thought that came to me 1115 01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:46,360 Speaker 1: as well as that, like how convenient that these two 1116 01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:50,000 Speaker 1: people who like the story is totally kind of a 1117 01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:53,440 Speaker 1: little bit fit, Like maybe they knew each other maybe, 1118 01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:55,600 Speaker 1: like how did he find this place? You know? Like 1119 01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,600 Speaker 1: how did were they friends? Did they like we can 1120 01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,280 Speaker 1: say that maybe they were both is the Minority Association 1121 01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:03,680 Speaker 1: said the name of it? They were both in it, 1122 01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:07,560 Speaker 1: and Joe started it and created the template and then 1123 01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:10,320 Speaker 1: somebody else picked it up, whether it was SEVN or 1124 01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:13,520 Speaker 1: somebody else. You know, if he creates a template then 1125 01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:16,439 Speaker 1: you just start following the template. And if you follow 1126 01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:20,560 Speaker 1: a template, after enough time, you don't need the template. 1127 01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:24,559 Speaker 1: You can do it freehand. After years of doing this 1128 01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:26,600 Speaker 1: kind of thing, and then when they start doing a 1129 01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:31,000 Speaker 1: little little side tiles or the manifesto, you just automatically 1130 01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:33,439 Speaker 1: carve in that manner. Because I'm holding this let's just 1131 01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:35,840 Speaker 1: say it's a box dive, because that's what I would 1132 01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:37,800 Speaker 1: carve littally in with. Okay, it's a box life. I 1133 01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:40,360 Speaker 1: hold box knife and I cut this way every time, 1134 01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:42,960 Speaker 1: and then just being bang boom, and just you just 1135 01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:49,000 Speaker 1: automatically muscle memory. Yeah. So I guess for me, I 1136 01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:51,439 Speaker 1: have this picture, and I've always had this picture of 1137 01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:57,479 Speaker 1: this person who feels like they've discovered the answer to 1138 01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:02,439 Speaker 1: eternal human life, and whether that's all legitimate discovery or not, 1139 01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:05,160 Speaker 1: but the rest of us are just too dumb to 1140 01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:08,599 Speaker 1: catch on totally. It's again it goes back to that feeling. 1141 01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:12,760 Speaker 1: It's kind of just this overarching feeling of like frustration 1142 01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:15,639 Speaker 1: with this case, either on any side of it, even 1143 01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:18,759 Speaker 1: if it's the person of the tyler, right, I feel 1144 01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:23,000 Speaker 1: that there's this like feeling of frustration because one of 1145 01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:26,240 Speaker 1: the side tiles says, kill all journalists, I beg you. 1146 01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:29,840 Speaker 1: And there's a fairly well documented history of somebody kind 1147 01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,240 Speaker 1: of in the early eighties trying to reach out to 1148 01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:36,519 Speaker 1: journalists to give this idea to them, to the media, 1149 01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:40,240 Speaker 1: to the main media, large media. So I get this 1150 01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:44,479 Speaker 1: image of this person who, for whatever reasons, is really 1151 01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:47,360 Speaker 1: uncomfortable with the idea of death, like more uncomfortable than 1152 01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:52,920 Speaker 1: the normal human being, right, And they that's fair. Some 1153 01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:55,439 Speaker 1: people are some people aren't. And you get this idea 1154 01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:58,360 Speaker 1: in your head and you think, oh my god, I 1155 01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:01,800 Speaker 1: figured it out. I know, like obviously Hurick was trying 1156 01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:04,120 Speaker 1: to tell us this Toynbe was trying to tell us this. 1157 01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:07,479 Speaker 1: The answer to this is we just resurrect the death, 1158 01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:09,960 Speaker 1: Like this is something that people have known about, you know. 1159 01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:13,000 Speaker 1: Conspiracy theorists get these things in their head. They think 1160 01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,480 Speaker 1: it's a moment of cla. People have known this forever, 1161 01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:20,759 Speaker 1: but it's being kept from the general population for whatever reason. 1162 01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:22,439 Speaker 1: And maybe it didn't start out that way. Maybe it 1163 01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:25,040 Speaker 1: starts out with, oh my god, this is what this 1164 01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,080 Speaker 1: person is trying to tell us. And you reach out 1165 01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:28,600 Speaker 1: to the media and you say, hey, this is what 1166 01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,439 Speaker 1: this person is trying to tell us, and the media says, Okay, 1167 01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,360 Speaker 1: you're a crackpot, and you face this ridicule and this 1168 01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:38,200 Speaker 1: like taunting, and since you're maybe a little crazy already, 1169 01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:41,000 Speaker 1: it starts to cycle on itself. You reach out and 1170 01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,599 Speaker 1: you say, hey, this idea and they say that idea 1171 01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:48,920 Speaker 1: and you say, oh, they hate me, oh, and you 1172 01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,360 Speaker 1: vilify them the more. I don't even think that's saying 1173 01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:56,800 Speaker 1: that they're crazy or imbalanced. But if you're constantly being rejected, 1174 01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,160 Speaker 1: it's rejection, is what it is. You're being rejected on 1175 01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:03,960 Speaker 1: this idea that will push you to either stop or 1176 01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:06,920 Speaker 1: go to greater and greater extremes to get your message. Well, 1177 01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:09,679 Speaker 1: I think you become reactive and you vilify the people 1178 01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:14,040 Speaker 1: who are saying no to you. So you come up 1179 01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:17,400 Speaker 1: with this other method, and your other method happens to 1180 01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:20,040 Speaker 1: be these tiles, and you start laying these tiles over 1181 01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:21,760 Speaker 1: and over again because you feel like this is the 1182 01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:25,080 Speaker 1: only way you can get out. And then suddenly, because 1183 01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,120 Speaker 1: you're you don't you're so reactive and so close did 1184 01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:30,680 Speaker 1: people start coming to you and saying, hey, we think 1185 01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:33,720 Speaker 1: you're doing this, and you go, no, no, I know 1186 01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:36,559 Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. Stay away from me because if 1187 01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:38,000 Speaker 1: I tell you I'm doing that, You're going to make 1188 01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:41,559 Speaker 1: fun of me. It's kind of illegal. You could be fine, sure, 1189 01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:44,559 Speaker 1: but you know, I think that there are some people 1190 01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:47,880 Speaker 1: who have approached him in this very really honest way 1191 01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:50,559 Speaker 1: and he who and if it's that person or not, 1192 01:11:50,760 --> 01:11:55,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. But to like react that strongly of 1193 01:11:55,960 --> 01:12:00,200 Speaker 1: no reaction, you know, like just a complete like shut down, 1194 01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:04,960 Speaker 1: just shoves him back and never answers, the door pushes away, 1195 01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:08,120 Speaker 1: and you have not done anything for the last what 1196 01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:12,280 Speaker 1: fifteen years at this point, right, Who's two thousand two 1197 01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:17,800 Speaker 1: was the last ten twelve years? And that could be 1198 01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:22,240 Speaker 1: all of the attention. It could be that the person 1199 01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,720 Speaker 1: that's really doing it has died. It could be if 1200 01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,000 Speaker 1: we're if we're going to run down it, Sevy. It 1201 01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:31,240 Speaker 1: might be that he's so afraid to do it anymore, 1202 01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:36,960 Speaker 1: or maybe he's disillusioned because of the copycat I mean again, 1203 01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:41,200 Speaker 1: there is a thousand It's like, you know, there's so 1204 01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:46,760 Speaker 1: much a million different directions speculation, but so but the 1205 01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:48,800 Speaker 1: thing about it is is like, you know, if he's 1206 01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,440 Speaker 1: got some sort of message for the world about about 1207 01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:55,040 Speaker 1: his ideas for resurrecting the dead. Then he could have 1208 01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:58,200 Speaker 1: picked a better format than you know, viol on the street, 1209 01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:01,760 Speaker 1: because I mean and and on an telligible messages. I mean, 1210 01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,240 Speaker 1: if he really has something to tell us about this, 1211 01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:07,720 Speaker 1: then he could write a book, you know, you could 1212 01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:11,439 Speaker 1: write letters to the editor, write something that's coherence. Actually, 1213 01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:13,920 Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm going to do this. Step up. 1214 01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:16,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to step up and and defend s a 1215 01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:20,120 Speaker 1: little bit on this, okay, or whoever whoever it is. 1216 01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:23,080 Speaker 1: I can't. I can't write a book because nobody will 1217 01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:26,560 Speaker 1: publish it, and I don't have the money to self publish. 1218 01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:29,000 Speaker 1: I can write letters to the editor till I'm blue 1219 01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,680 Speaker 1: in the face, but that doesn't mean that they're going 1220 01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:34,440 Speaker 1: to publish it, because you know they get a gazillion 1221 01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:38,240 Speaker 1: every day. But and let's go a step further from that, right, Okay, 1222 01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:40,800 Speaker 1: So if we're going to go with the David Mammitt 1223 01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:43,720 Speaker 1: play connection a little bit, right, because it is a 1224 01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,519 Speaker 1: little uncanny. You start to read it, really is that 1225 01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:49,120 Speaker 1: David Mammitt stuff, and read everything you can about the 1226 01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:51,840 Speaker 1: Toybee tiles and it's like some of it is like 1227 01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:56,120 Speaker 1: phrase for phrase. Okay, So David Mammitt said oh no, 1228 01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:58,240 Speaker 1: there was no caller. This like totally came up. I 1229 01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:01,720 Speaker 1: think actually these tiles are reference to my play. But 1230 01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:05,439 Speaker 1: very early, like right after he published the play, he said, yeah, 1231 01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:07,559 Speaker 1: I heard an interview on Larry King Live at like 1232 01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:10,600 Speaker 1: four o'clock in the morning, and uh, that's where I 1233 01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:13,920 Speaker 1: got this idea. So okay, So Sevy or whoever it is, right, 1234 01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:17,000 Speaker 1: calls Larry King Live and gets this phone interview and 1235 01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:19,719 Speaker 1: then there's nothing done about it. So he like writes 1236 01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:22,240 Speaker 1: to some dude at the Inquirer and there's like a 1237 01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:25,120 Speaker 1: little like super skeptical kind of making fun of him thing, 1238 01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:27,479 Speaker 1: and he like writes other letters to the editor. People 1239 01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:30,559 Speaker 1: are just like saying no, no, no, no, no, dismissed, 1240 01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:33,800 Speaker 1: dismiss dismiss. So he does these paste four or the 1241 01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:37,840 Speaker 1: wheat paste stuff, right, but that's coming down that's not 1242 01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:41,599 Speaker 1: permanent enough for him. What else can I do? Oh well, 1243 01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:46,439 Speaker 1: but these tiles in it's more permanent. It's a way 1244 01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:48,680 Speaker 1: that he knows how to get his message across a 1245 01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:51,759 Speaker 1: little bit. And it probably so the person who writes 1246 01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:55,200 Speaker 1: that makes total sense. Let's let's be totally honest here. 1247 01:14:55,439 --> 01:15:02,520 Speaker 1: I agree with that, But those four lines that makes 1248 01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:05,120 Speaker 1: But have you considered another possibility, which is that the 1249 01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:08,680 Speaker 1: guy wasn't insane, You just really hated pedestrians, and a 1250 01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:11,000 Speaker 1: really great way to get get people run out because 1251 01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:12,960 Speaker 1: they're gonna stop and look at this and scratch their 1252 01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,320 Speaker 1: head and not even noticed that bus coming towards. The 1253 01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:20,360 Speaker 1: old ones. The old style ones are like there was 1254 01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:24,240 Speaker 1: one in the entrance to like a turnpike, Um tunnel, 1255 01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:28,240 Speaker 1: Holland Tunnel, and then like another one in the middle 1256 01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:30,720 Speaker 1: of a fruit a different freeway, and they're like in 1257 01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:33,160 Speaker 1: the middle of the streets and stuff like that. They're 1258 01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:37,120 Speaker 1: not just on pedestrians. And the news style ones are 1259 01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:41,840 Speaker 1: almost a hud geared towards pedestrians there in the middle 1260 01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:43,960 Speaker 1: of the street, but they're like turned so that a 1261 01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:47,080 Speaker 1: pedestrian on the sidewalk could see it. Instead of being 1262 01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:50,439 Speaker 1: geared towards like the traffic going down the street, they're 1263 01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:55,559 Speaker 1: turned horizontally so that the pedestrians could read it from 1264 01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:58,080 Speaker 1: the sidewalk or they're in the middle of a crosswalk, 1265 01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:01,760 Speaker 1: or they're on a sidewalk. And one of the things 1266 01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:03,559 Speaker 1: that mystifies me about the one around the hot torn 1267 01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:06,960 Speaker 1: as it picked probably one of the most one of 1268 01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:11,920 Speaker 1: the least pedestrian intensive scratches of the street. Yeah, there's 1269 01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:15,680 Speaker 1: one on MLK on like one of the least pedestrian 1270 01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:19,200 Speaker 1: intense spaces too. And that's the other kind of question 1271 01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:21,479 Speaker 1: mark about this is that, like, okay, so you're doing 1272 01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:25,439 Speaker 1: these tiles in the middle of a freeway, Like, who 1273 01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:27,639 Speaker 1: the hell is going to see that? Like you might 1274 01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:30,160 Speaker 1: drive over it and be like, oh, there was something there, 1275 01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:33,559 Speaker 1: but you can't read those four lines while driving over it, 1276 01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,240 Speaker 1: you know. And it's not geared towards that it's not 1277 01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:38,800 Speaker 1: written the opposite the way that they do signs, like 1278 01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:42,519 Speaker 1: you know, in the middle of the accident, could have dropped. 1279 01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:47,000 Speaker 1: That was a couple of accidents, though, don't you think. Okay, 1280 01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:50,639 Speaker 1: so let's let's run with the guy's got a hole 1281 01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:52,880 Speaker 1: in the floorboard of his car and he's got a 1282 01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:55,280 Speaker 1: stack of these things prepped. Yeah, and he takes a 1283 01:16:55,320 --> 01:17:00,080 Speaker 1: corner a little too fast and he runs over a 1284 01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:02,840 Speaker 1: coup and then the car goes from whoo, and the 1285 01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:06,040 Speaker 1: top one off the stack slides off, and there's no 1286 01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:09,320 Speaker 1: way he's going to stop to grab it. That was 1287 01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:14,080 Speaker 1: go on, Oh, well, I would just say that that 1288 01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,400 Speaker 1: happened to be a very lucky landing because it looks 1289 01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:22,200 Speaker 1: really intentional. Yeah, not like in a weird little It 1290 01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:25,000 Speaker 1: is a lucky landing. And our of course said it 1291 01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,880 Speaker 1: would about that would have landed upside down and reverse lettering. 1292 01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:32,800 Speaker 1: I don't feel like we're missing something obvious here, don't 1293 01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:35,320 Speaker 1: I mean, don't you don't right now. I just feel 1294 01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:37,160 Speaker 1: like the answer is like literally on the tip of 1295 01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:41,120 Speaker 1: my brain. I feel like I'm missing all of it. Really, 1296 01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:46,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I still don't understand what this is about. Yeah, Scott, 1297 01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:50,640 Speaker 1: the whole thing is just goofy. Yeah. So not not 1298 01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:52,880 Speaker 1: that sounds like I'm dismissing you or being a jerk. 1299 01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:55,280 Speaker 1: I just in my head it's goofy. I don't care, 1300 01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,800 Speaker 1: And this is you know, this is one There have 1301 01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:01,960 Speaker 1: not been any listener suggestions for it, but it has 1302 01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:05,080 Speaker 1: been like, literally since we started talking about doing this show, 1303 01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, years ago, this has been one that I've 1304 01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:13,000 Speaker 1: been thinking, I got to do that. And I was 1305 01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:16,000 Speaker 1: just saying to Steve like literally an hour before we recorded, 1306 01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:20,639 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not ready. I can't do it, um. 1307 01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:23,200 Speaker 1: And I think that's just kind of how it's always 1308 01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:28,200 Speaker 1: going to be with this story. So I guess um, 1309 01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:30,200 Speaker 1: if you want to check out the pictures of the 1310 01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:34,240 Speaker 1: tiles or any of the links, UH will link the 1311 01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:37,920 Speaker 1: documentary that we've been talking about. Um, you can find 1312 01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,440 Speaker 1: all that stuff at our website, which is Thinking Sideways 1313 01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:44,000 Speaker 1: podcast dot com. If you come up with a really 1314 01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:48,040 Speaker 1: brilliant theory of some kind, please email us, like seriously, 1315 01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:52,320 Speaker 1: please email us. UM. It's Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail 1316 01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:55,360 Speaker 1: dot com. And by the way, if you are the tyler, 1317 01:18:55,439 --> 01:18:57,920 Speaker 1: would you just as a as a little president, do 1318 01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:00,360 Speaker 1: some of those tiles, a whole bunch of them thinking 1319 01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:02,960 Speaker 1: Sideways and put them on the streets. We would really 1320 01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:08,280 Speaker 1: appreciate it. That would be great awesome. You can also 1321 01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:10,719 Speaker 1: you can always leave us a comment on our website 1322 01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:13,439 Speaker 1: if you're listening there. UM, a lot of people are 1323 01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:15,599 Speaker 1: trying to get in touch with us. With us that way, 1324 01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:17,600 Speaker 1: we try to get back to you, you know, in 1325 01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:20,680 Speaker 1: a fairly timely manner. UM. If you're not listening on 1326 01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:24,760 Speaker 1: our website, you're probably listening on iTunes. You are leave 1327 01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:26,759 Speaker 1: us a comment in a rating so that other people 1328 01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:30,240 Speaker 1: can listen to us and find us. Find us on Facebook, 1329 01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,200 Speaker 1: you can stream us on Stitcher. If you forget to 1330 01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:38,839 Speaker 1: download us UM on any mobile ready device. Yeah, so 1331 01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:45,599 Speaker 1: I guess my Yeah, I think so. I think that's 1332 01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:48,000 Speaker 1: my feeling, right like, I can't verbalize it any better 1333 01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:55,120 Speaker 1: than that, but so I'm tired of this story anyway. No, 1334 01:19:56,120 --> 01:20:00,360 Speaker 1: this just doesn't deserve it, you right, Sorry, Sorry, I 1335 01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:03,800 Speaker 1: think it's David Mabbott. You know that would be a 1336 01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:05,400 Speaker 1: hell of a publicity stunt.