1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Quody dynamis, but Joseph's gotten more having spent many, many 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: years working in the Morgue. One of the most difficult 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: things about the Morgue as a workplace, particularly if you're 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: at a smaller jurisdiction, it is not having to deal 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: with decomposed bodies or complex gunshot one case where the 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: victim might have multiple wound tracks through the body, or 7 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: even being exposed to infectious diseases, which we were quite 8 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: a bit. You know what the most difficult thing was 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: was being alone in the morgue. And I don't mean 10 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: you know, ghosties and goblins and those sorts of things. 11 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: I've never seen one as a death investigator, and I 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: was around a lot of dead bodies. The one thing, though, 13 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: give me a little latitude here, that haunts me is 14 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: the fact that I had to move bodies by myself. 15 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: I have found myself in positions where I was moving 16 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: individuals that were well in excess of three hundred pounds, 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: all by myself, and to this day I paid the 18 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: price with my back and my shoulder and my hip. 19 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: If you can get a second pair of hands to 20 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: help you to move the dead, because they are dead weight, 21 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: it's always best, But there are certain things that we 22 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: do when we're around the dead that indicate to us 23 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: and to the world around us more importantly, that we 24 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: care for those that have passed on. The worst thing 25 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: anyone could ever be seen doing in public that works 26 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: for eight Corner's office is the abuse of a corpse. 27 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. I'm going 28 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: to regal you with a story, Dave to start off with, 29 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: and this actually happened in a New Orleans suburb on 30 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: what is referred to as the west bank of the 31 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: Mississippi River, even though there it's technically not west, it's south. 32 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: But they call it the west bank because it's on 33 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: the side of the river that would be, I don't know, 34 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: the Louisiana side, and you know, as it flows southbound, 35 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: so they but they because it makes the big curve. 36 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: You've heard the term of the Crescent City. Uh. The 37 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: reason New Orleans one of the nicknames is Crescent City 38 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: is because there is a big crescent shape end in 39 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: the river there. I was in a town and I 40 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 1: think it was Marrero, Louisiana, and we got a call 41 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: that we had a severely decomposed body of a fellow 42 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: that was living in, oh there's no other way to 43 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: put it, in a flophouse and his taxi driver and 44 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: what was so there were several surreal things about this case. 45 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: First off, the guy lived in a room that had 46 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: a single window unit and it operated off of quarters 47 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: and there were quarters stacks of them everywhere, so when 48 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: the air would begin to run down, he would drop 49 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: into the quarter in And then there were hostess, you know, 50 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: snack cake wrappers everywhere, you know, like ding dongs and 51 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: things like twinkies. They were just all around the room, 52 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: just littered the area. And then you come to him, Dave, 53 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: this guy, I don't know, he was well in excess 54 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: of four hundred I think probably five high fives. And 55 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: what really made it interesting, not that that's not interesting already, 56 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: is he was a taxi driver and he had a 57 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: Chevy Caprice four door that he drove. And did you 58 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: know that he was so big that the front seat 59 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: was busted and so he would have to recline. And 60 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: so if you wanted to have an additional fare in 61 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: there like where his, you would I've thought about this 62 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: several times. You would have to ride down the road 63 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: with the driver's head in your lap. You know, if 64 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: you could squeeze your legs between. This guy was really 65 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: big and he was severely decomposed. In this room, it's 66 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: a single bed, and he used every inch of it. 67 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: He died of a heart attack, but had been down 68 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: for a long time, and I remember we had to 69 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: call the fire department out to help us move. Well, 70 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: first off, there's not a body bag big enough to 71 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: accommodate this guy. And even if you did do that, 72 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: the straps there's these nylon straps on the corner and 73 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: on the corners and on the sides of body bags 74 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: that could not have worked in order to move this 75 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: guy around. You would have ripped him, that's how heavy 76 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 1: he was. So we called the fire department, and myself 77 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: and the firefighters kind of scratched our head over this thing, 78 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: and we came to conclusion the best thing that we 79 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: could do is get a big blue crash tarp, place 80 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: him in it and wrap him up. And the thing 81 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: about it is, if you've ever seen what an old 82 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: fashioned joint looks like, you know, where people used to 83 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: twist the ends of it. It looked like no. 84 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 2: Way you're talking about having I'm gonna have to look 85 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 2: that up. 86 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: It looked like a gigantic blue joint in the floor. 87 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: And we had to get this guy down a set 88 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: of stairs, a set of stairs, interior stairs, and the 89 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: stairs were wide. This is an old, old building. The 90 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: day he was so decomposed, and the human body, when 91 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: we decompose it, you know, it becomes very slimy, very greasy, 92 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: as we like to say. And this decompositional grease was everywhere. 93 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: It was on our gloves, it was on the back 94 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: because we had to wrestle to get him in. We're 95 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: fighting flies. It's horrible. Well, long story short, and I've 96 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: made this very long, but just understand me. We knew 97 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: that we had to get him out of the building, 98 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: and it took I think I might be miss from 99 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons I love firefighters because they're 100 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: always willing to work. They put their shoulder to the 101 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: stone all the time. They're the coolest cats in the world. 102 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: I think it took six of us to get him 103 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: down the staircase, and we lost our grip and I 104 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: wound up heart of my hip really bad and my 105 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: shoulder because the body took me down. But I was 106 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: on the side bouncing off of these wooden stairs and 107 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: pressed against a wall. One of the firefighters actually he 108 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: either broke his leg, his leg was broken or it dislocated. 109 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: His hip. Is horrible, you know. We were all moaning 110 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: and groaning, you know, and still we've got this huge body. 111 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: Now that's that's with six grown men, and we're trying 112 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: to do this, and we're trying to be as respectful 113 00:07:54,040 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: as we possibly can. But there are certain circums dances 114 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: when it comes to bodies that the conduct involving the 115 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: bodies is reprehensible. 116 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: Did you get the did you get the big guy 117 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: down the stairs? 118 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: We got him down the stairs and we actually had 119 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: a firefight, a bunch of firefighters. I'm glad you mentioned this. 120 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: That just came to mind. We got him downstairs, got 121 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: him into the van, and we couldn't use a mortuary 122 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: stretcher in the van, it would have broken it. We 123 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: had to set it aside, and he just his body 124 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: was just laying in the floor of the van. So 125 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of the firefighters, uh followed us to the morgue, which, 126 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: by the way, is was back then was on the 127 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: east bank. It's on the west bank now, but was 128 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: on the east bank. So here we are, we're all riding, 129 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: you know, in tandem. It's me and my car, and 130 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: then the mortuary service that we hire to move bodies, 131 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: and then this line of firefighters, and we pulled into 132 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: the gate. We had to get him into what we 133 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: call the decomp room, which is this really tight space, 134 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: onto a stainless steel gurney, by the way, in order 135 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 1: for his body to be examined the next day. You 136 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: would not take a body like this into what we 137 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: referred to this clean area. And but yeah, we got 138 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: him up on the on the. 139 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 2: Gurney, and all the while, everyone that was involved in 140 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: this process was concerned about being respectful. Even though it's hot, 141 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 2: slimy flies, it's the worst of the worst, But there 142 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 2: is still the underlying professionalism that requires you to do 143 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 2: this as respectful as you possibly can. Is that correct? 144 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: It is? And you know you, I think you made 145 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: a comment. I can't remember how back, how far back 146 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: it was. We talked so much at but uh, we 147 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: you had made a comment relative to the dead. And 148 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: it's really insane, rightful, because I've used it before. That's 149 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: somebody's baby, you know. I don't care if you weigh 150 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: five hundred pounds or decomposing in a room makes no 151 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: difference to me. You're covered with flies, you're living in 152 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: lessen favorable conditions. It's still you know, somebody held that child, 153 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: held that man as a child, as a as a 154 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: wee little one. At some point in time, they might 155 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: not be around anymore, but it's somebody's baby. You know. 156 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: The dead are at you know, they're they're at our mercy. 157 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: Their remains are at our mercy. How we treat them, 158 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: and it says a lot about I think a lot 159 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 1: about a society how you treat the dead. Now I'm 160 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 1: not where. You know, our normal fear on the show 161 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: is to talk about things like dismemberment. We understand how 162 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: insulting that is. And there's a whole group of there's 163 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: a whole you know, underpinning of psychopathy that goes with 164 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: people that we even did a special episode on dispayment. 165 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: That's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about 166 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: representatives of a duly elected office in the City of 167 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: New Orleans, the Parish of New Orleans, Parish of Orleans. 168 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: Rather where you have such disregard and you have a 169 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: level of callousness toward the dead that you would treat 170 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: a dead body in the manner in which we're going 171 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: to discuss in public like this, and you have no 172 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: shame over it, no shame. I think that that indicates more. 173 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: It's a reflection of who we are as a people, 174 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: because if you'll treat the dead that way, you know, 175 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: on camera, by the way, and you know there there 176 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: is a chance you're going to be seen, okay, and 177 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: particularly in today's world, it goes beyond pay all day. 178 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 2: You know. This was actually the story is how a 179 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 2: watchdog group that is watching crime or watching police rather 180 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: in New Orleans shows up at crime scenes in the 181 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 2: video what's going on? And this video captures somebody from 182 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 2: the coroner's office removing the body of a sixty one 183 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 2: year old man from his home. And as he is 184 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 2: as the body is being brought out of the home, 185 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 2: it is in a body bag on a tarp and 186 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: the tarp is being pulled by this employee of the 187 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 2: coroner's office and it is pulled down stairs. By the way. 188 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 2: This is the victim of a homicide. An investigation is underway, 189 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 2: and this body is not carried out by several people. 190 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 2: The body is being drug I cannot say that hard enough, 191 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: but I got to understand that this body bag is 192 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: on a tarp and this employee is pulling the tarp 193 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 2: bump bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, all the way down 194 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 2: the stairs. Boom, and it's captured on video. That video 195 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 2: was uploaded and within a matter of hours already was 196 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 2: in the six figures in terms of views. The coroner, 197 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: the guy who actually the elected official, he didn't know 198 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,599 Speaker 2: anything about it until he sees it popping up online. 199 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 2: And he's watching an employee of his office do the 200 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 2: most disrespectful and by the way, damaging to the investigation 201 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 2: by treating this body in such a manner. And Joe, 202 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 2: we've got two different cases to discuss. In this one one, 203 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 2: it is the murder of a sixty one year old 204 00:13:55,160 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 2: man who was not seen by by neighbors and they 205 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: were concerned and started looking for him. As we mentioned 206 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 2: the other day on a previous show, it's like, if 207 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 2: you don't see somebody before your report of missing, how 208 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: about going to the house and just look through the 209 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 2: windows or something, peek around, see what you see. But 210 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 2: in this particular case, we have the death, the murder 211 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: of a sixty one year old man. We have an 212 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: eighteen year old who was arrested driving the man's car 213 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 2: and having his wallet and cell phone with him, and 214 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 2: then we have this horrible display of disrespect from an 215 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: employee of the coroner's office. Take your pick as to 216 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: which way we're going to go, Joe, because in every 217 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 2: aspect of this story, I know you have a comparable 218 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: story to tell and how you dealt with it in 219 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: the moment. 220 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, I've had embarrassing instances. You know, at scenes. 221 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: There have been bodies that have been dropped over the years, 222 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: but it was it was not a purpose to act, 223 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: and people still got hot over that, you know, just 224 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: really enraged. But you know, I don't ever I never 225 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: recall I wrote about I did write when I wrote 226 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: my memoir, I wrote a story or recalled a story 227 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: that involved a kid that had been shot actually in 228 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: the projects just south side of New Orleans. And he 229 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: had had a bullet that and it was an AK round, Dave, 230 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: and he took a headshot and it didn't make it 231 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: all the way through his head as a dry by shooting, 232 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: and this seven point sixty two round fired by the 233 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: aka by the perpetrator utilizing an ak platform kind of 234 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: diagonally went through this kid's head and lodged behind his 235 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: right ear. And the name of the story was actually 236 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: called the Earache because it deals with mama's and how 237 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: they take care of their kids. And I do have 238 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: a point with this. We had a huge crowd where 239 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: we were where the shooting took place, and they were angry. 240 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: I remember the cops even brought the dogs at one 241 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: point in time. People wanted blood in this case, and 242 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: so you could actually feel the round and it had 243 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: partially broken the skin. Now, one of the things that 244 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: I like to do with bodies relative to like a 245 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: head like this, I'm not going to remove that projectile 246 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: at the scene. It's a fool's air and if you 247 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: do that, So what I do, just like with you 248 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: know how we baged the hands. I bagged this kid's 249 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: head and put tape around the base of it so 250 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: that if the round fell out and transit, we would 251 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: still have the round. But there's a high probability that 252 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: if we take care and getting this kid's body to 253 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 1: the morgue, the round will remain inside to you and 254 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: the pathologist will be able to appreciate it. Remember there's 255 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: not a pathologist at the scene. Well, anyway, I go 256 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: through this whole thing. We've got murmurings in the crowd. 257 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: I wrapped the tape around the base of the back, 258 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,479 Speaker 1: secured it. And his mama, this kid's mama was sitting 259 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: just outside the tape and she was weeping openly. This 260 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: is her baby, okay, dead on this dirty ground in 261 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: the projects. And her sisters were with her too. And 262 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: you'll see a situation where you'll have people that are 263 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: kind of in a I don't know how to describe it. 264 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: You'll see somebody. You can see people that will beat 265 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: their chest and scream and carry on and whatnot. That's 266 00:17:57,640 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: really not the people you need to watch out for. 267 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: This mother was openly weeping, and she wasn't saying anything, 268 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: and she had collapsed the grounds, and it's kind of 269 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: that quietness that's the people you need to watch out for. 270 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: And I remember seeing her grieving for her at the 271 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: scene because she saw me examining the body. Can you 272 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: imagine that watching your child's body be examined on this 273 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: dirty ground out there while my back was turned. I 274 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: had a police officer that took a magic marker and 275 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: drew a smiley face on the outside of this back 276 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: and put a bubble, a cartoon bubble coming up out 277 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: of the mouth that said good morning, doctor Mac. Now 278 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: Mac was one of our pathologists, and he thought that 279 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: it was funny to do this. See, that's the kind 280 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: of thing that you never because once you cross over 281 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: that you've now left what civil society is and what 282 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: our expectations are where there are certain boundaries that you 283 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: don't go across. And that night will ever for ring, 284 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: will ever ring in my mind. And that's one of 285 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: the reasons I think that it's just one of the 286 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 1: many reasons that I brought this case to your attention 287 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:28,120 Speaker 1: when we were thinking about it, because it it made 288 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: me think about all of the times where as an 289 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: old death investigator, I think back and I think, did 290 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: I do everything I could to respect the dead in 291 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: this environment? But on this particular night, in what's referred 292 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: to as the Bywater neighborhood of New Orleans, one of 293 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: New orleans most lovely and ancient of neighborhoods that didn't 294 00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: happen as a grown man had been the victim of 295 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: a crime. His body was drug from his home, bounced 296 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: along an external staircase and driven off in the night. 297 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: Just so folks understand where this neighborhood is. It's when 298 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: Katrina hit. You heard about the Lower ninth Ward. A 299 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: lot of people heard about that, you know, when the 300 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: levees gave way and we had flooding throughout the city. 301 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: The Lower ninth Ward, the ninth Ward is actually a neighborhood, 302 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: and the city itself was broken down into wards. And 303 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: it's a political assignment, you know here from the eighth 304 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: ward the ninth Ward, those sorts of things, and you 305 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: can supplant it with district. You know, you'll hear other people. 306 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: But the Lower ninth Ward is immediately adjacent to the 307 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: Bywater area, and the Bywater area is old. I mean 308 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 1: it's like really really old. As a matter of fact, 309 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: it's so old that it was one of the first 310 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: if you want to refer to it as a suburb, 311 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: began to be built in the early eighteen hundreds. Okay, 312 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: So these homes are old in this area and prior 313 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: to it being developed for a place for people to live, 314 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: you know, when they finally got roads and carriages and 315 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: all that sort of thing in New Orleans that were 316 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: passable before that. It was a plantation. So it goes 317 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: back a long long ways and it's adjacent to a 318 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: couple of canals that are in New Orleans everything. You know, 319 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: you come across a bayou and don't think about byous 320 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: in the sense like you see in Cajun Land. These 321 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: are bayous that are still moving. Are you know, by 322 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,479 Speaker 1: use nothing but a river that really moves slow. But 323 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: these are all cleaned up, you know, they're very immaculate there. 324 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: You know, people want to live around around these areas. 325 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: And you've got not too far away, You've got another 326 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: large canal that, uh, you know, will get you into 327 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: the Mississippi River. So water surrounds everything and I've often 328 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: thought that that's why they called it by water. But 329 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: the house where this event took place, Dave, is a 330 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: typical what is referred to as a creole cottage, and 331 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: Creole cottages typically if you ever look at photos of 332 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: New Orleans, there are some of the most lovely homes 333 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: that you'll ever see. In their shotgun homes. They're painted 334 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: in bright pastel colors. They always have a porch, they're 335 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: always a walk up by the way you hear that 336 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: term associated with New York quite a bit, but their 337 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: walk up in New Orleans for the purpose of people 338 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: elevate their homes down there because of water, and the 339 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 1: homicide that we're referring to actually took place in a 340 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: home that is a not only a creole cottage that 341 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: is a shotgun, but it's a shotgun double. So that 342 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: means that you've got two homes that are well, you've 343 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 1: got one structure that makes up two homes and they're 344 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: all linear. So as you're standing at the foot of 345 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: the staircase at this home, our victim's home is on 346 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: the right, okay. And so when these people captured this 347 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: image of the morgue worker or the corner's office worker 348 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: bringing this gentleman's body, mister Hankins down the staircase, you're 349 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: looking at them not it's not like they're peeping through 350 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: a wind to day. This is done in public, man, 351 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: and they're being drug out on a Tarp's not even 352 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: a mortuary stretcher, because every every corner's office has mortuary stretchers, 353 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: and for those that don't know what those are, they're 354 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: stretchers that one person can manage. If you can get 355 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: the body onto it. Then it's got separate locks on 356 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: the feet and the head, and it's got a brace 357 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: down at one end. It's like a little grill work 358 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: where the feet would go, and it keeps the body 359 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: in place. And it's got straps that look like seat belts. 360 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: I didn't even have that. And so, you know, because 361 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: you can take a mortuary stretcher and even if somebody 362 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: is big, one person can manage this thing. And yeah, 363 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: it would have you know, still bumped down the staircase. 364 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: But that's not the case. And I couldn't for the 365 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: life of me, because I watched the video day. I 366 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: couldn't for the life of me, because this is not 367 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: the only He's not this person that worked for the corner. 368 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 1: And mind you, I said that in the past tense, 369 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: this person that worked for the corner. I don't understand 370 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: why no one else was given on my hand to 371 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: pick up the corners, the corners of the tarp to 372 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,439 Speaker 1: help transport the body down. He's the singular individual that 373 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: is moving the body. And we don't see what happened 374 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: to the body once it got to the ground. 375 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 2: No, and why, and I mean this asking for help 376 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 2: is not weakness. But in this particular case, somebody working 377 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 2: for the corner's office. You've got other individuals around that 378 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 2: are all law enforcement or they're around crime victims. At 379 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 2: what point do you think it's okay to do this? 380 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,239 Speaker 2: I guess is my bottom line? Really, I'm looking at 381 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 2: this from every angle possible, and it's like, Hey, if 382 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 2: I'm standing there at the street doing my cop business 383 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 2: or whatever, and I look over and I see a 384 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 2: man dragging this body down the stairs, you know, all 385 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 2: the way down, I'm going to be mad because all 386 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 2: you had to do is say, hey, I need help. 387 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: You know, well you must, I didn't bother to ask. 388 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: You might be mad, but I've got one better for you. 389 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: I'm drinking. I'm thinking this is go to the culture 390 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: of what happens to crime scenes down there now that 391 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: we just don't that we just don't care to the 392 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 1: point that everybody's numb to it. 393 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 2: Is this why we have this camera crew or a 394 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 2: person they're watching it because they see this kind of 395 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 2: garbage happening and they have to get it on video. 396 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: I think that that's part of it. And this is nothing. 397 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: There's nothing new under the sun. I love my hometown 398 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: I really do. You know that I do. And I 399 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: love the people, and you can make excuses all day 400 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: long for the activities of people. But when you see 401 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: and I don't care what the classification of death is, 402 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: I don't care. I don't care what the uh financial 403 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: standing of an individual is. You can be poor as 404 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: a church mouse or you can be the richest person 405 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: in the world. You're still dead, okay. And there's there's 406 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: a certain there's a certain code that you adhere to 407 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: when you're you know, when you're taking care of you're 408 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: you're really you have been entrusted. And I wax kind 409 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: of philosophical about this stuff. Now, you know, I don't 410 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: have that robotic mindset where I'm just trying to get 411 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: the body from point A to point B. And so 412 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: forgive me for that, but I see it. And you know, 413 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: if you'll treat the dead this way, how do you 414 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: treat the living? And so there's several things to consider here. 415 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: First off, the mortuary worker, the corners employee that drug 416 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: this body down the staircase, and let me tell you 417 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: what happened when he drug it down staircase. Because he's 418 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: dragging from the feet, the head, the head there's a 419 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: grand opportunity here that the head is up at the top, 420 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: and even if the head is not up at the top, 421 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: could be at the feet or down below. With the 422 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:25,360 Speaker 1: feet above, you're dragging this homicide victim down these external 423 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: wooden stairs and literally is bouncing, is bouncing as they 424 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,239 Speaker 1: go down. Well, any kind of trauma that's there that 425 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: has been perpetrated, because we're talking about a second degree homicide. Here, 426 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: you can dislodge projectiles, you can disrupt trace evidence. Oh, 427 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: here's a great one. You can actually traumatize post mortem. 428 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: From post mortem perspective, you can traumatize the body. And 429 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: let's just say that, let's just say that there was 430 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: a fracture in the body already. Okay, Well, if you're 431 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: dragging and this is not a slight step, Okay, this 432 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: is not like a couple of steps. This is like 433 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: it's like ten or eleven steps that. 434 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 2: We shocked seeing the video, Joe I was shocked. 435 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know you see it and you think, 436 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it's really really going to drag him 437 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: all the way down. You're thinking, oh my lord, I 438 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: hope that I hope this isn't going to happen and 439 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: you watch it. It's like that train wreck, you know, 440 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: just kind of sitting there, you know, and watching the thing. 441 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, let's just say that the victim 442 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: had any kind of bony fracture that's there. Well, you 443 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: can further exacerbate that by dragging them, you know, like this. 444 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,959 Speaker 1: There's any number of things that could have happened, and 445 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: we don't know if it happened. What we know is 446 00:29:54,600 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: that we see a body being subjected to post mortem trauma, 447 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: is postmartem trauma. Do care is not being taken? You know, 448 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: people can say, you know, things like, well, in other 449 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: countries they handle bodies. I don't care about other locations. 450 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: I care about what we do in America. And there 451 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: is a there's a certain standard that we're to adhere 452 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: to when we're investigating desk and most importantly, when we're 453 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: taking care of the dead. 454 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 2: Dave, you know, we mentioned the that in the morgue, 455 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: the in the funeral home, that the body that is 456 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 2: there is the most important thing, and that when there's 457 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 2: a body in the funeral home, that you have a 458 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 2: live person there that stays so that in case of 459 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 2: something fire, flood, whatever, that that individual is responsible for 460 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 2: getting the body out, because that's the only thing that matters. 461 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 2: Everything else can burn and be gone, but this is 462 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 2: somebody's loved one and this is it. You've got to 463 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 2: get them out. And I think about that and how 464 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 2: that was impressed upon me as a very young man, 465 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 2: and I see this behavior, and you know, when I 466 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 2: see something like this show, I try to think of 467 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 2: myself in the moment, you know, of what I would 468 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 2: have done, decisions I would have made, because I try 469 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 2: to put myself in that position to try to understand 470 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 2: why somebody made the decision they made. And one the 471 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 2: one thing that caught my attention was the fact that 472 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 2: there was somebody there videotaping a fairly innocuous crime scene, 473 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 2: videotaping the police activities surrounding it. That surprised me. I thought, 474 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 2: I thought maybe it was a class project, you know, 475 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,479 Speaker 2: for a school thing. But when I look deeper and 476 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 2: found out that this was there's a reason for them 477 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 2: doing this, it's still is shocking that it. 478 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: Is because you know, you you ever have you ever 479 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: been around a person that some people might label as well, 480 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: you're just a conspiratorial nut. 481 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,239 Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, Hi and then they 482 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 2: present you with, hey, was that Dave Mac. 483 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: They present you with videography or video evidence of it happening, 484 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,959 Speaker 1: and you say, oh, my lord, and listen, this is 485 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: I can only imagine because this group is following around 486 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: the police. This is probably not the thing that they 487 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: that was on their bingo card. You know that they 488 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: were going to capture. They're they're looking for inappropriate behavior 489 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: by the police. And I'm talking about in a a 490 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: in in the heat of the moment when something is 491 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: going on. Now, I can tell you this. I look 492 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: at that that that video image and I see uniforms 493 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: walking around and I'm thinking, well, you might not be 494 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: doing it, but you're passively allowing it to happen. And 495 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: the police, officers, crime scene text, everybody else they have 496 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: to understand. And we've talked about this extend exhaustively on 497 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: body bags, that the body is the biggest piece of 498 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: evidence that you that you have at any death scene. 499 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: You know, that's where that's the font that every that 500 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: knowledge is going to come from. Where discovery and these 501 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: sorts of things. Well, let me ask you this. If 502 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: you let's say you recovered a pistol at a crime 503 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: scene and you had it in an evidence bag. All right, 504 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: Just imagine if the crime scene tech that had the 505 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: pistol was taking that pistol, holding onto the bag and 506 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: slamming it onto the sidewalk. Okay, you're slamming it against 507 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: the big oak tree in the front yard, or you know, 508 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: taking it and they're on videotape and the doors of 509 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: the crime scene van are open. Can you imagine mac 510 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: Mac wouldn't do this. I'm talking about my friend Cheryl, 511 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: you know you She wouldn't take a weapon and a 512 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: bag and just randomly toss it into the well. If 513 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 1: you look at just purely from an evidentary standpoint, that's 514 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: kind of what's happening here. Because you want to take 515 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: due care, you know, with this, and people will say, 516 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: you know, they very well might say, you don't understand. 517 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: We're undermanned. We're undermanned. You're not undermanned to the point 518 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 1: where you can't bring a mortuary stretcher out where you 519 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: can take a one man job and make it a 520 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: little bit easier and certainly dave more dignified than what 521 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: we saw born out before us in this kit. Well, 522 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: what can't be lost? I think in this disturbing set 523 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: of circumstances with the treatment of a fellow human beings remains. 524 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: Is the fact that we're looking at a homicide here, Dave. 525 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: This is I'm not saying that any death is any 526 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: more important than any other death. However, you know and 527 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: I know that there are certain things that if you 528 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: do not take care of them at that moment time 529 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 1: and take due care in what you're doing, you can 530 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: ruin everything moving forward. In my gosh, we're talking about 531 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 1: a homicide here, Dave, that's committed in a bywater area 532 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: of New Orleans. 533 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 2: And that's where when looking at this case, because the 534 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 2: case got national attention because of the body bag being 535 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 2: pulled down the stairs and that just is such a 536 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 2: shocking thing to see. But we got to remember that 537 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 2: there is a six to one year old man named 538 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 2: Michael Hankins who is dead and it was high he 539 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,760 Speaker 2: was murdered. There's a young man, Trevor Lee del Ree. 540 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:03,240 Speaker 2: He's eighteen now. Trevor del Ree had lived with Michael 541 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 2: Hankins on and off. It wasn't like he was a 542 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 2: permanent fixture there, but he spent a lot of time there. 543 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 2: And I point out again he's eighteen sixty one year 544 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 2: old Michael Hankins is the victim. 545 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: Now interesting age combination. 546 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 2: It is, that's kind of odd when you're looking at 547 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 2: a non relative. Right, del Rey living with Hankins on 548 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 2: a semi regular basis. He gets arrested. Delrie gets arrested 549 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 2: Tuesday in Alexandria, Louisiana. How far is that from where 550 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 2: the house is, Joe. 551 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: It's not that it's that far. It's that it's it's 552 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: a bit more difficult to get to. You think about 553 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: if people are familiar with Baton Rouge. If you're in 554 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: New Orleans and you take ten to get up to 555 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: Baton Rouge, Baton Rouge will take you. You know, it's roughly 556 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 1: about sixty five seventy miles per that you're going, So 557 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: you have to go beyond Baton Rouge headed northbound and 558 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: you wind up in Alexandria, and it's literally the geographic 559 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: center of the state. And for all of my fellow 560 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: Army veterans, you're very familiar with Fort Polk. It's it's 561 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: not a desirable place to be assigned, and it's you know, 562 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: but that's essentially where he was found. So he's he's 563 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 1: outside of the Metro New Orleans area when he is, 564 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: you know, when he stopped by the police and he's 565 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: driving a vehicle one that doesn't belong to him, and oh, 566 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: by the bye, turns out he happens to have the 567 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: homicide victims and correct me if I'm wrong day homicide 568 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: victims wallet in his possession as well. Is that correct? 569 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 2: Right, He's got the wallet and phone and. 570 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: Yet the phone as well. 571 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, but here's the thing. Okay, when they this, they 572 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 2: pull him up, they being police when and delrig gets 573 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 2: pulled over in Alexandria on Tuesday night. Hankins's body has 574 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 2: not been found. They don't know he's dead. But think 575 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,879 Speaker 2: about this for just a minute. You've got an eighteen 576 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,880 Speaker 2: year old man, Trevor del Rey, and the police are 577 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 2: asking him, you know, they pull him over for routine 578 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 2: traffic byas so they say routine traffic stop, and they're 579 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 2: asking him questions. You know, Okay, it's not your car, 580 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,240 Speaker 2: whose car is it? He's a friend, not a relative. 581 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 2: You know, the things just seem suspicious. And so when 582 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,239 Speaker 2: del Ree doesn't give them the answers they're looking for, 583 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 2: they go ahead and they bring him in suspicion. They 584 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 2: suspect he stole the car, so they bring him into 585 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 2: police headquarters, you know, and they're holding him finding They've 586 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 2: got a few things, I'm sure that they're working on. 587 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 2: And neighbors haven't seen mister Hankins in a couple of days. 588 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 2: Got to remember too, in the neighborhood like this, people 589 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 2: know who's going in and out. They know what to 590 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 2: expect and where. Trevor del Rey had been seen in 591 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 2: the neighborhood from time to time. Now he's gone. Hankins 592 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 2: hasn't been seen by anybody by the Hankins car is 593 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 2: gone too, So there is some interest in their community 594 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 2: in days there is. 595 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,280 Speaker 1: Let me let me tell you something about the nature 596 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: of these these older New Orleans neighborhoods as well, because 597 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: many many folks might think that, you know, if we 598 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: modern subdivisions where you'll have you know, homes ranch maybe 599 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: ranch or multi story type homes that are adjacent to 600 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,799 Speaker 1: one another. And no, no, no, no, no, that's it's 601 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:44,880 Speaker 1: not the way it is in New Orleans. Places are adjacent, 602 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: but literally you could look out your kitchen window and 603 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: look over into the living room perhaps or the other 604 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 1: person's kitchen and read the labels on the can. That's 605 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: a close thing. Like if the reason I'm pointing this 606 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: out is if his car is missing, That's something that 607 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: people would tune into very quickly. They would have an 608 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: awareness of it. You can be inside of your home. 609 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,239 Speaker 1: These homes in New Orleans, the old neighborhoods particularly, are 610 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 1: so close together. You can hear your neighbor clear their 611 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: throat if they're outside their house. Okay, which is not 612 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:26,359 Speaker 1: something I'm a big fan of. Yeah, yeah, just the 613 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: you know, the the spatial relationship, you know, when you're 614 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: and if anything had happened in that house. And to 615 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:38,359 Speaker 1: this point, interestingly enough so far, I mean, the only 616 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: thing that's really been released from the corner in this 617 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,080 Speaker 1: case is not a cause of death. We know that 618 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: an individual has been charged with second degree homicide, But 619 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: what the coroner has talked about in this case is 620 00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: the fact that this individual viewed the video of the 621 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 1: body being treated as it was, and they, you know, 622 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 1: they begin to talk about how horrific this is. In 623 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: the corner's long career, this is the worst thing that 624 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: they've ever seen. And of course, the corner employee that's 625 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: responsible for this who you can clearly see on the video, 626 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: has been fired, you know, by the corner's office. But 627 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,240 Speaker 1: we still don't know a lot about the homicide itself. 628 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: We know that this individual was left behind in their home, 629 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: we know that they're domiciled there. We know that the 630 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:41,240 Speaker 1: suspect that has been arrested actually had frequented this location. 631 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, he stole this guy's car 632 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: and had his personal possessions with him. So yeah, and 633 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: so that's really what we know at this point relative 634 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: to this case, Dave. 635 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 2: And the bigger question now is we have the victim, Okay, 636 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 2: Michael Craig Hankins, sixty one years old. 637 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: He's dead. 638 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,240 Speaker 2: We have a suspect who is in custody and charged 639 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 2: with second degree murder in the Trevor Lee del Ree 640 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 2: who's eighteen. But as you go through this investigation, Joe, 641 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 2: starting with the victim's body, I know that they do 642 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:23,320 Speaker 2: they being corner forensic people, they study the crime scene, 643 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,720 Speaker 2: but the body is not autopsy that the crime scene. 644 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 2: The body is taken from the crime scene back to 645 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 2: the office where they do the work. But the damage 646 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 2: done to the body, the evidence that could be lost, damage, hurt, 647 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 2: all of that all I'm as a defense attorney, I 648 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,320 Speaker 2: would be watching this thinking, if I can't do this case, 649 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 2: everything is gone. They're going to have to negotiate it down, 650 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 2: mainly because you get this in front of a jury 651 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 2: and they're going to say they care so little about 652 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 2: the truth, they just want to get a conviction. This 653 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,759 Speaker 2: totally damages their case. You don't know what happened to 654 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 2: this body. You don't know if it happened, what did 655 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:03,799 Speaker 2: they do in the house before we even caught them 656 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:04,959 Speaker 2: on video? If they would do. 657 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,319 Speaker 1: This, well Noel said, Well said Dave, because you're right, 658 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,400 Speaker 1: you know, we know what happened in plane view. And 659 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: if I was an attorney working on this case and 660 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:21,240 Speaker 1: trying to defend this eighteen year old this Trevor de Delry, 661 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: I would draw into question. I would draw that to 662 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 1: the attention of the court and say, look, we we 663 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: don't know. You know, if they're bold enough to do 664 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,279 Speaker 1: this outside the house, my lord, what happened inside? How'd 665 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: they get the body in the bag? Did they lose 666 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 1: any critical critical evidence? And you want to blame my 667 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: client for this? You can't even manage them. You're on scene, 668 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 1: and so this is how the snowballs. And I think 669 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: that any defense attorney worth their salt, you know, would 670 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 1: try that approach. And yeah, I think that there's a 671 00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 1: high probability it could be reduced. It's certainly a a 672 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: leverage point. I think that the Defense Council is going 673 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,239 Speaker 1: to have you know, whoever's desk this lands on. I 674 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: don't know what kind of resources that this eighteen year 675 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 1: old has. My suspicion is is that this is going 676 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,759 Speaker 1: to be something that's going to fall to more than 677 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 1: likely public Defender's office. And you know, we'll see where 678 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 1: it goes from there. But the fact is is that 679 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: when because these questions are going to be it's tough 680 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,080 Speaker 1: enough being a forensic pathologist and what they have to 681 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,799 Speaker 1: do on the stand. Okay, just follow me here. When 682 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 1: you're talking about complex injuries and certainly a cause of 683 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:46,359 Speaker 1: death of all things, a homicide trial, a homicide case, 684 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:53,399 Speaker 1: now that forensic pathologist is going to be grilled over 685 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: the status of the body. That will be asked, you know, 686 00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,800 Speaker 1: what type of trauma did you see on this body? 687 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,359 Speaker 1: And this is a mouse trap they're walking into that 688 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,839 Speaker 1: the you know that the defense sets up because they'll 689 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,759 Speaker 1: ask the question, well, how do you know? How do 690 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,399 Speaker 1: you know? How do you know? And again, if you've 691 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 1: got a jury and paneled, you know the jury is 692 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 1: like looking. They're looking, you know, over the prosecution's table 693 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 1: and they'll say, you know, they're in their mind. You know, 694 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,280 Speaker 1: they might be saying, oh my god, these people are beastly. 695 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,560 Speaker 1: You know that they would treat this guy's body like this. 696 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 1: How can we how can we believe anything that comes 697 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 1: out of their mouths? There's a dark cloud hanging right now, 698 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:44,280 Speaker 1: and sometimes sometimes out of the worst, most horrific circumstances 699 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,120 Speaker 1: that we may bear witness to things that set us 700 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,879 Speaker 1: back on our heels, things that make us gasp. Sometimes 701 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:57,000 Speaker 1: it's those events that can be a catalyst for change. 702 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,920 Speaker 1: I'm josephst. Morgan and this is Bodybacks 703 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,879 Speaker 2: MHM