Speaker 1: Pushkin, We're really sad at broken record to hear about
Speaker 1: the passing of Justin Towns Earl. We recorded an interview
Speaker 1: with them some time ago before the coronavirus put in
Speaker 1: studio conversations on hold for us. Bruce Hadlin met up
Speaker 1: with him at GSI Studios in Manhattan. Justin played some music,
Speaker 1: they talked, as you'll hear, Justin was a gifted performer
Speaker 1: and songwriter. He was the son of outlaw country musician
Speaker 1: Steve Earl and got his middle name from his dad's mentor,
Speaker 1: Towns van Zand. Both Steve and Towns struggled with addiction,
Speaker 1: and so did Justin for most of his life. He
Speaker 1: talks with Bruce about his personal troubles in this episode
Speaker 1: pretty candidly, and their conversation about racial tensions in America
Speaker 1: seems prescient now. Justin identified with people on the margins.
Speaker 1: He wrote fantastic songs detailing Fringe Live with tremendous heart.
Speaker 1: They were full of desperation, humor, and specificity, and the
Speaker 1: best of the Southern songwriting tradition. We had this interview
Speaker 1: scheduled to run next month in September when we heard
Speaker 1: yesterday morning that Justin passed over the weekend. We weren't
Speaker 1: sure we should run this at all. There's some really
Speaker 1: deeply sad moments in this conversation with Bruce, but there's
Speaker 1: also a lot of soul. So in the end, we
Speaker 1: thought you might all enjoy spending some time with Justin
Speaker 1: Town's Earl. His talent in life for better or worse
Speaker 1: really shines through. We also hope you spent some time
Speaker 1: with his music, whether you're returning to it or just
Speaker 1: discovering it for the first time. This is broken record
Speaker 1: liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Just
Speaker 1: a quick note here. You can listen to all of
Speaker 1: the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which
Speaker 1: you can find a link to in the show notes
Speaker 1: for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced in
Speaker 1: this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. All right, enjoy
Speaker 1: the episode. Here's Bruce had them with Justin Town's Earl.
Speaker 1: He starts with the performance of a song from his
Speaker 1: last release, The Saint of Lost, causes Justin Town's Earl
Speaker 1: with Flint City, Flint City, Shake It Flint City, Shake
Speaker 1: It Flints all right. Yeah, that was quite an opening.
Speaker 1: Thank you. So much. You gotta start out fast, man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you always store your concerts fast. I like to, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: try to, you know, but you know, you know you
Speaker 1: have to. You gotta give him something to say, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: ain't gonna come out there and stare it. You know,
Speaker 1: very few people can get that, you know, the Jeff Buckley,
Speaker 1: you know, do that thing where you could stare at
Speaker 1: your shoes and get away with it. He was great.
Speaker 1: I saw it live. I couldn't do that. Yeah, I like,
Speaker 1: I like the show to start. It's like I don't
Speaker 1: want to see nobody come out on stage and town.
Speaker 1: It's like when I walk out, I want my guitar
Speaker 1: tooon for me and hand it to me and let's
Speaker 1: let's go. Um. So, tell me about the rating of
Speaker 1: that song, Flint City Shake It. Um. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it was the first song I wrote for
Speaker 1: this record. Um, and it kind of it tied into
Speaker 1: this thing where I was looking at the way, you
Speaker 1: know how like Springsteen made New Jersey so cool. He
Speaker 1: made you feel New Jersey or before who you know.
Speaker 1: But but you know, you listen to him, you know,
Speaker 1: working on the Highway and things like that, like you
Speaker 1: you get this this mysticism about it and this thing
Speaker 1: where he made it romantic, made Jersey romantic. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: bon Jovi sure as shit couldn't do that, you know.
Speaker 1: So what I wanted to do is take that same
Speaker 1: which he's a Woody Guthrie disciple, right, which I am too.
Speaker 1: I wanted to take that same idea but apply it
Speaker 1: to all of America. So I have. I wrote Flint City,
Speaker 1: Shake it Um. Then I wrote Santa of Lost Causes.
Speaker 1: Then I wrote Appalachian hypemare Um you know about Appalachia.
Speaker 1: I wrote Ahistaminina you know about I based that on
Speaker 1: a my my basis was a Puerto Rican kid from
Speaker 1: the East village that from the Alphabets who got locked
Speaker 1: up on mandatory minimums when he was young um and
Speaker 1: was and got off a prison bus and met his
Speaker 1: daughter for the first time. That's what I asked to mean,
Speaker 1: he is about um. But but it's like that's that
Speaker 1: the whole idea. And it's like I wrote over Alameda
Speaker 1: about a kid from the Jordan Downs housing projects in
Speaker 1: south central Los Angeles. It's a very old impulse in
Speaker 1: American music that I think has been lost. I mean,
Speaker 1: Springsteen wrote about lost, but he you know, he's from
Speaker 1: New Jersey. He wrote about other places as well. But
Speaker 1: oh yeah, what is it about those songs or those
Speaker 1: kinds of songs that people like Winnie Guthrie used to write?
Speaker 1: What do you think that? You say, like, you know,
Speaker 1: everybody's Americans. But in a weird way, the beauty of
Speaker 1: those songs is it makes different parts of the country
Speaker 1: more mysterious, isn't it. Well? I mean I think too,
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it's like I mean, I hope that
Speaker 1: it makes it mysterious. I hope that it makes people
Speaker 1: intrigued by different parts of the country. I'd hope it
Speaker 1: makes somebody figure out that. Like, you know, if you
Speaker 1: lived in LA from the nineteen forties until now over Alameda,
Speaker 1: that was the dividing line. It was a dividing line
Speaker 1: between black and white. Was this so Flint City was
Speaker 1: the first song on this album on your new album?
Speaker 1: Was it? Did it kind of set the tone for
Speaker 1: you with this album? Was it characteristic of what you
Speaker 1: wanted to do? Well? I always have a conceptual idea
Speaker 1: about my records, even from the start, even from the
Speaker 1: Good Life. I had this concept of it. Even though
Speaker 1: it's light like my early records, they were like except
Speaker 1: Midnight at the Movies was pretty conceptual. I based that
Speaker 1: on Gregory Corso's book Mind Fields, Harlem River Blues, I
Speaker 1: based on Moving Here things like that. But um, I know,
Speaker 1: I um, I always know exactly where I want to
Speaker 1: start and where I want to end. And that goes
Speaker 1: with songs and records, because I mean, it's just like
Speaker 1: I'm not you know, I'm not pissing in the wind.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like I'm here to you know, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna you know, I'm if you want to be an artist,
Speaker 1: It's like I write about twelve thirteen songs a year.
Speaker 1: They go on my records. I think um saying of
Speaker 1: a lost causes the song. Yeah, it took me about
Speaker 1: six months to write. What did it start? As? Did?
Speaker 1: It started? As it was with a lick, with a
Speaker 1: lyrical idea? What how did it? What was the genesis?
Speaker 1: It started with this this idea of I was I
Speaker 1: was looking at It's like, you know, you're looking at
Speaker 1: people like Eric Gardner getting choked out by cops, the
Speaker 1: Me Too movement, all these things of all these people
Speaker 1: like you know, it's like, wait, people, anybody black people Mexicans.
Speaker 1: What women, we've we've traded them like horribly over and
Speaker 1: and so what I was trying to get at was
Speaker 1: the fact that if you keep poking at the underclass,
Speaker 1: what you call the underclass, you know, you keep poking
Speaker 1: at us, eventually we're gonna strike back and you won't
Speaker 1: like it. Okay, So was it? Was it stuff in
Speaker 1: the news you're reading, or stuff you were seeing up close?
Speaker 1: That stuff I've lived through, stuff I've lived through. I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's like everybody, I'm Steve Son,
Speaker 1: but my daddy was. I mean, my mom was number
Speaker 1: three of eight wives, you know, and he was gone
Speaker 1: before I was two. I grew up with my mother.
Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up. You know what, it makes
Speaker 1: the best grilled cheese sandwich in the world, Government cheese
Speaker 1: in the cardboard box, the best damned grilled cheese sandwich
Speaker 1: you can get. And I know that because I grew up.
Speaker 1: You know, I grew up with my mother, who worked
Speaker 1: three jobs. I grew up with, you know, and I
Speaker 1: gravitated towards a lot of dangerous people. And I've you know,
Speaker 1: I've always been a street level kind of person. I
Speaker 1: don't want to go to your martini bar and and
Speaker 1: sit there and bullshit, I want to go to the darkest, dimmest,
Speaker 1: most dangerous bar you got and let's get down with
Speaker 1: the people, right because that's how most people live. So
Speaker 1: that's where the song came from. That those memories, that
Speaker 1: idea all of it. Yeah, yeah, well you said that's
Speaker 1: where you want to start with the album. Where did
Speaker 1: you want to go with the album? Well, what I
Speaker 1: wanted to go with was actually when I wrote sat
Speaker 1: Saint of Lost Causes, the song which will play next yep, um,
Speaker 1: I knew. I was just like, okay, that's it. Now
Speaker 1: we got to add up to that. Is this something
Speaker 1: you map out very consciously or very feeling? Yeah, very Yeah.
Speaker 1: So when you're writing that song, you're I usually know
Speaker 1: where I want to end before I know where I
Speaker 1: want to begin, and you just keep working until you
Speaker 1: finished the record, I mean until you feel like you
Speaker 1: got to start, when you got to finish. It's a thesis.
Speaker 1: You need a hard beginning, a medal at an end. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and only the most pertinent information are you that way
Speaker 1: As a lyrical writer, you say you've got it. Oh shit,
Speaker 1: you ought to see my note. But I mean, if
Speaker 1: somebody stole one of my notebooks, um, you may get
Speaker 1: two songs, because it's just page after page of just
Speaker 1: rewrites and rewrites and rewrites. And I always write number
Speaker 1: two pencils, uh, and stint up pads. Always use the
Speaker 1: same kind of pad always always. Yeah, I like to
Speaker 1: you one of are you very precise in that way? Well?
Speaker 1: You know, well, the only thing that I you know,
Speaker 1: the pad, I like cineupads. It ain't necessarily the pad
Speaker 1: any thing, but the number two pencil is the thing, okay,
Speaker 1: because you can erase it when you get a bad idea,
Speaker 1: but you got to remember when you had a decent
Speaker 1: idea that maybe you didn't work out just right, and
Speaker 1: leave that and not erase it so you can go
Speaker 1: back and look at it and find another way to
Speaker 1: toy it around and and you know, and get it right.
Speaker 1: That I was reading this biography of Guy Clark, and
Speaker 1: they reproduced some of his notebooks and it was sort
Speaker 1: of done impeccably and hardly any revisions, which kind of
Speaker 1: just stunned me. Maybe maybe they're just showing the good pages,
Speaker 1: not the messy pages. Well, now he's the guy who
Speaker 1: told my dad were always write number two pencil. Is
Speaker 1: that right? And my dad told me I always write
Speaker 1: number two pencil. Yeah. It's like he erased everything that
Speaker 1: he didn't like. Oh okay that's why. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: So you cover up your history. I'm gonna you can.
Speaker 1: You can, you can, but you can only but but
Speaker 1: you gotta always remember as like as like, we can't
Speaker 1: all be as good as Guy Clark, So we have
Speaker 1: to hang on to what we were, where we came from.
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes you have to know what to hang
Speaker 1: on to. Um. You know, keep two eyes on the
Speaker 1: ground and pick up what you find, but be careful
Speaker 1: what you keep when don't we hear Saint of Lost
Speaker 1: Causes and then keep talking? Well, let's do that. So
Speaker 1: for people listening wondering how many guitars are playing on
Speaker 1: that song, it's just you, just one guitar. But you've
Speaker 1: got this very interesting way you you strum and pick
Speaker 1: kind of at the same time. I call it slid
Speaker 1: a hand. Okay. Um, I learned bit of it from
Speaker 1: Malcolm hokeom okay, yeah, great, great Sun House m hmm.
Speaker 1: Did this? I mean they but you gotta do this
Speaker 1: figure out this thing is like, you know, you gotta
Speaker 1: get your fingers bent like crap. I'm looking at some
Speaker 1: very ben fingers, very band and this thumb looks like
Speaker 1: a canoe paddle. I mean, but but you get this well.
Speaker 1: The other thing I was gonna say is uh, and
Speaker 1: this isn't very common anymore. You justif really swings, oh man,
Speaker 1: I swing like a pendulum. You know, it's it's a
Speaker 1: you got you got to swing. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: don't know how to shake your ass, then you mean
Speaker 1: that's something. I mean, did you get that from Western swing? What?
Speaker 1: I got that from the Blues? I got that. I
Speaker 1: got that from the Blues. I mean, I got that
Speaker 1: from listening to um. But you know I got it
Speaker 1: from Stacks. I got it from uh I did? I
Speaker 1: got it from Hank Williams. But you know what where
Speaker 1: Hank Williams think about country before Hank Williams, Right, it
Speaker 1: was just like, oh yeah, I said we're going to
Speaker 1: this and all on top of the beat, right, Not
Speaker 1: that it wasn't good, but it was all on top
Speaker 1: of the beat. Hank Williams goes down to the Louisiana
Speaker 1: Haye Ride and somehow, you know, everybody's like, oh, Hank,
Speaker 1: Williams did this. It's like all he did was introduced
Speaker 1: the twelve bar blues, the country music, you know. Or
Speaker 1: before I'd be like I'm going down to the river
Speaker 1: and then I'm gona no, no, no no man. But Hank
Speaker 1: Williams comes in and goes, I'm going down to the
Speaker 1: rip gone that day. You know, it's like whoa drop back,
Speaker 1: sit back, relax, right, relax, I mean, relax about it.
Speaker 1: But some some of your earlier songs like I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: uh the good Life, the song that was very Western swing.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, no, I mean western swing was was
Speaker 1: definitely a part of of what I loved, but but
Speaker 1: it was it was weird how I got into like
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not. Um. It's more like when I
Speaker 1: think about Western swing, I think about Moon Mullikin. You
Speaker 1: know these these these these these stranger Emmett Miller. Um,
Speaker 1: I think of these these different things. I'm Eman Miller
Speaker 1: who wrote Lovesick. He wrote the Lovesick Blues. And you
Speaker 1: know what, Hank Williams definitely saw Emmett Miller when he
Speaker 1: was down in Lazianna Aza right, without question, where Edam
Speaker 1: Miller did, he did Ragtime, I think he was. I
Speaker 1: mean he was a black face performer. He was a
Speaker 1: white guy who painted his face black and performed in
Speaker 1: black face. Old minstrel show kind of thing. Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: and people don't really know how because it's so politically fraught,
Speaker 1: how influential a lot of minstrel show music will was.
Speaker 1: I mean, here's the deal. It's like people need to
Speaker 1: understand this about what the minstrel show did. The minstrel
Speaker 1: show for the first time. Um, before it's like you
Speaker 1: lived in a holler somewhere, or you lived in a
Speaker 1: bio somewhere, you lived on a rant somewhere, or even
Speaker 1: if you lived in a city, you knew a version
Speaker 1: of a song because your uncle knew how to play
Speaker 1: it and he played it on Saturday night when you
Speaker 1: all gathered together, you know, for your your gathering. So
Speaker 1: everybody knew these different versions, Like nobody's versions were the same. Right.
Speaker 1: This was before records were made, you know, So it's
Speaker 1: like nobody knew the same versions for the first time.
Speaker 1: The minstrel Show travels at travels and it introduces America
Speaker 1: to a uniformed song like the the that's how you
Speaker 1: play that song, you know that idea. You know, it
Speaker 1: was the very first widespread given to all of America
Speaker 1: at the time, music that we had before radio, before radio,
Speaker 1: before records could be made. And I mean, and of
Speaker 1: course there's there's there's always going to be this uh,
Speaker 1: this this stigma about it because you know, even black
Speaker 1: people had to paint their face black to be in
Speaker 1: a menstrel show, you know, right, Hell yeah, that's fucked up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean what minstrel, what the minstrel show did for
Speaker 1: American music. We would not have American music the way
Speaker 1: that we have it if it was not for the
Speaker 1: menstrul Show. We wouldn't. We'll be back with more from
Speaker 1: Justin Town Zero after the break. We're back with more
Speaker 1: of Bruce's conversation with Justin Town zero. Do you remember
Speaker 1: the first song you wrote, m I do um um
Speaker 1: halfway to Jackson, So the first song you ever wrote
Speaker 1: in life ended up on Finished Yeah, Well, a lot
Speaker 1: of the songs on the Good Life, Yeah, a couple
Speaker 1: of them. Um. I wrote um halfway to Accent when
Speaker 1: I was fourteen. I ain't glad I'm leaving when I
Speaker 1: was fifteen. Uh, turn out my lights when I was fifteen. Uh,
Speaker 1: Rogers Park. What were you what were you listening to
Speaker 1: back then that that helped you write those songs? Um,
Speaker 1: those songs we were back then, like, I mean, those
Speaker 1: were the few, like there's I can't remember all the
Speaker 1: songs on that record, but those were the few that
Speaker 1: were the old songs that I'd had since I was
Speaker 1: a kid when you know, because I was twenty five
Speaker 1: when when when New Life came out? So those are
Speaker 1: the ones that lasted, all right. I wrote a ton
Speaker 1: of shit back then, like but when I was a teenager, tons,
Speaker 1: tons and a lot of It's embarrassing as hell, but
Speaker 1: you got to go through that. Yeah, you know, you
Speaker 1: got to write bad songs, try them out. I mean,
Speaker 1: and I mean it's not like you know, I used
Speaker 1: to write a song and you know, I'd like run
Speaker 1: down to Dad's studio when he'd be working, like run
Speaker 1: down and be like, hey, look at this. He'd be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: go back to the drawing boards. Soun as hard as
Speaker 1: hell on me about it? Yeah, because you how old
Speaker 1: were you when you started playing with his band? I
Speaker 1: was fifteen? Wow, what did you see the music business
Speaker 1: when you were fifteen? On the road? I knew it
Speaker 1: was better than selling to up and going to prison,
Speaker 1: which was which was what I was gonna do. I
Speaker 1: was gonna let's follow my you know, mom's side of
Speaker 1: the family down down the rabbit hole. Right, I'd be dad,
Speaker 1: or I'd be in prison. Period. You know what, if
Speaker 1: this ever ends, I can't make no money, I'll probably
Speaker 1: end up in prison because I only know two ways
Speaker 1: to make money. The only one's legal. All right, We're
Speaker 1: gonna help you with this way because you know, of
Speaker 1: course you get three square meals. I mean, as long
Speaker 1: as you you know how to get you you know,
Speaker 1: get your zuzus and lham wams. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you'll be fine. So I'm kind of wondering this because
Speaker 1: you know, particularly with music, a lot of music is
Speaker 1: pop music and rock music is born in rebellion. When
Speaker 1: you have a father who's kind of such a rebel himself,
Speaker 1: how do you rebel against that? How did you how
Speaker 1: did you separate yourself from your father's influence? You can't,
Speaker 1: and you don't because if you try to, if I
Speaker 1: said Steve Earl had no influence on my songwriting and
Speaker 1: that he wasn't one of my heroes as a songwriter,
Speaker 1: that would be the biggest I mean, the biggest lie
Speaker 1: I could tell you know, was that the case when
Speaker 1: you were fourteen? Well, we kind of just started getting
Speaker 1: to know each other when I was fourteen. He knew
Speaker 1: his music though, of course, you know, but it's an
Speaker 1: interesting thing. I mean you have to realize that, like
Speaker 1: any of those sons and daughters of they're like, I
Speaker 1: don't wanting don't talk about my dad. I want nothing
Speaker 1: to do with my dad or my mom. It's like
Speaker 1: the fuck you think you are. It's like you, it's
Speaker 1: like you. You you have to find your own way
Speaker 1: incause nobody can tell me that I rode my daddy's
Speaker 1: coattails into this fucking business because my dad can't play
Speaker 1: like me. Um, I can't write like him, and he
Speaker 1: can't write like me. We have a different I mean
Speaker 1: we've we've we have distinct things that we do differently. Um.
Speaker 1: But and you know, and we've done since I mean
Speaker 1: shit like since I started making records. I think we've
Speaker 1: done five shows together. What's that like? Period together? Five
Speaker 1: shows though? Yeah, but what's it like when you play together?
Speaker 1: It's it's it's something else you want to see. Two
Speaker 1: Earl's butt heads holy shit. I mean it is, it's
Speaker 1: something else, especially when we start playing together and I
Speaker 1: was doing songs together, and uh uh. I always liked
Speaker 1: to take one of his songs that he likes to do,
Speaker 1: and I like play one of his songs that I
Speaker 1: know he's gonna play it just so he can't do it,
Speaker 1: and things like it. But no, it's it's definitely it's
Speaker 1: a it's a head button thing. But I remember, I
Speaker 1: remember the first time, you know, my dad telling me
Speaker 1: go back to the drawn Bird. I mean I used
Speaker 1: to play from noon until seven pm at the spring
Speaker 1: Water in Nashville every Thursday, um noon until seven pm,
Speaker 1: just playing and playing and playing and playing up covers
Speaker 1: and songs that I wrote. But you know, it's like
Speaker 1: he you know, I had to get that get, get
Speaker 1: that test in get. You had to build all that up,
Speaker 1: hide to build all that up, um and um. I
Speaker 1: wrote a lot of songs and he said, go back
Speaker 1: to the drawing Bird. But I remember the first time
Speaker 1: when I wrote Maria. I can't remember what record it's on.
Speaker 1: I think it's on Midnight or something. I can't but
Speaker 1: when I wrote Maria, it was he came and saw
Speaker 1: me at um radio cafe in Nashville, UM, and we
Speaker 1: I was with my band the Swindlers at the time,
Speaker 1: and we played Maria last. And when I came off stage,
Speaker 1: my dad goes, well, hey, what was that Elvis Carstello
Speaker 1: song you played? I said, we'd played an Elvis Carstello
Speaker 1: So he's the last song. I said, that's Maria. I
Speaker 1: was like, that's mine mine. He goes, really, I went, hell, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was the first. Like I was like, yelp, doup
Speaker 1: and and you know, and and I still can make
Speaker 1: him cry with Mama's Eyes. Can you play the first
Speaker 1: two bars of Mama's Eyes? Because that's pritting into this conversation. Oh,
Speaker 1: let's say, uh, I have to do a little a
Speaker 1: little bit of tune in for a second. But when
Speaker 1: I wrote this song, I mean like it, it was like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like you gotta be ballsy, you know.
Speaker 1: And I love the fact that when I came up,
Speaker 1: But that first line that you know, do you know
Speaker 1: that like right there when I did that, I was
Speaker 1: just like when I came up, I was just like, Hell,
Speaker 1: I'm onto something. Yeah, I'm onto something. What did he
Speaker 1: say when you he first heard that? He actually the
Speaker 1: first time he saw it was at a show. Um
Speaker 1: he came and saw him. Um, I can't remember where
Speaker 1: we were, Oh, the Rhyman. We're at the Rhyman Auditorium
Speaker 1: opening for Old Crow, I think. And Dad shows up,
Speaker 1: you know, like proud papa on the sides, and and
Speaker 1: I do do Mama's eyes and and you know, and
Speaker 1: you can see I mean I you know, I kind
Speaker 1: of peek over and like you see him shrink a
Speaker 1: little on the and after after the show, I was
Speaker 1: just like, Okay, he was like, hey, great show. He
Speaker 1: was like Mama's Eyes is a really fucking good son.
Speaker 1: There was this resignation and that he was just like
Speaker 1: so I think that that's it. I found this thing
Speaker 1: and speaking the truth, telling it the way that it is.
Speaker 1: And he respects that absolutely because he created me, even
Speaker 1: though he wasn't there for that. For a good point.
Speaker 1: That creates a lot of a boy who I'm a
Speaker 1: boy that doesn't grow up with a father. It grows
Speaker 1: up alone. Uh you know a mother that works three jobs,
Speaker 1: who's who's molested, beaten and abandoned. You know after dad left?
Speaker 1: You know what, you think I ain't gonna shape You're
Speaker 1: I was pissed at dad for a long It took
Speaker 1: us a long time to have a relationship. Long time.
Speaker 1: You read a lot about mothers. You wrote an album
Speaker 1: single mothers as You've got another one on this album,
Speaker 1: the Nina song. Oh ah, he has to mean Nina.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, well that was like that's dad getting off,
Speaker 1: you know, Amias Morelda used a site for sore eyes.
Speaker 1: I'm just off the bus from Clinton. They put me
Speaker 1: out on the Bowery. I'm on my way home to
Speaker 1: see mommy. Now, fancy seeing you along the way, don't know,
Speaker 1: don't go. Ain't you got a minute for your old man?
Speaker 1: Let me buy you something to eat, just a cup
Speaker 1: of coffee from Debodegga. I was hoping we might get
Speaker 1: a chance to speak, you know. Um, and that was
Speaker 1: someone you knew. That's based on, it's based on. It's
Speaker 1: a composite of a few people that I knew. I
Speaker 1: lived in the alphabets for years, and um, I mean
Speaker 1: people who don't don't nobody needs to be mistaken by anything.
Speaker 1: It's like alphabets are still strongly Porto Rican, right, you know,
Speaker 1: and the influence there is something else, uh yeah yeah, um,
Speaker 1: And but that whole idea of like like like you know,
Speaker 1: the Puerto Rican people came here in the nineteen fifties,
Speaker 1: started filling into this town um as soon as they could,
Speaker 1: looking for better life. They speak great English. They speak
Speaker 1: Spanish between each other. But when you're talking to them,
Speaker 1: the only time that they if you're if you're talking
Speaker 1: just like you know, sitting at the bar talking, you know,
Speaker 1: with the minutes, like the bunch of non Spanish because
Speaker 1: they're talking perfect English. But you know they you know,
Speaker 1: hit their thumb, oh ching. You know. So it's like
Speaker 1: emotional things that makes this right. You know, this this
Speaker 1: thing come up so and I got this ideally Adista
Speaker 1: me Ninya, my only child, Nina. You know now you
Speaker 1: have no fear of you're taking the voice of a
Speaker 1: Puerto Rican father. Uh, you take the voice of a
Speaker 1: African American kid in Alameda. Uh. You know there's a
Speaker 1: lot of controversy about that. Now we're all Americans, but
Speaker 1: we're all Americans. I mean that's the thing is like
Speaker 1: everybody needs to get the get the fuck over all that,
Speaker 1: like we're Americans. And you know what it's like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, all the all the Puerto Rican kids that
Speaker 1: I knew when I lived in the alphabets weren't born
Speaker 1: in Puerto Rico. They were born in America. They may
Speaker 1: speak Spanish, their mom may cook some spicy food. I
Speaker 1: lived in the five twenty eight. Oh man, you should
Speaker 1: have smelled that building in the middle of the day.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, all the doors opening, the cooking going. It
Speaker 1: was good. But the deal is is they're Americans, right.
Speaker 1: But a writer could say to you, yeah, but you're
Speaker 1: a way to American. You've got a certain experience. But
Speaker 1: I grew up as a black kid in that neighborhood.
Speaker 1: I see it a different way. What does it like
Speaker 1: to take on that voice? Well, don't don't make sure
Speaker 1: that you think about it before you say it. I
Speaker 1: don't think I say anything that would offend anybody in
Speaker 1: this song. I mean I may have found corporate America,
Speaker 1: but I ain't gonna found up Puerto rican In with
Speaker 1: I es I meaning you, I'm not gonna failed any
Speaker 1: black man with over Alameda, We'll love more of justin
Speaker 1: Town zero. After the break, we're back with justin Town zero.
Speaker 1: Why don't we hear uh your next song? First? No?
Speaker 1: What do you connouct? No? I got it. We'll do
Speaker 1: it Frightened by the Sound? Okay, I mentioned before some
Speaker 1: of your songs could they could have been Merle Haggard songs,
Speaker 1: George Jones songs. That could be a Paul Westerberg song.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like, I mean like when when I
Speaker 1: recorded Ken Hartley wait on on Midnight at the movies.
Speaker 1: It's on midnight. That's right, you did. Yeah, and we
Speaker 1: should say Paul Westerbird writer for the replacement replacements. All
Speaker 1: you people who don't know look it up. You got
Speaker 1: head on your phone. So the song you just played,
Speaker 1: Frightened by the Sound, where you know, you talked about
Speaker 1: kind of the arc of this album, where he started,
Speaker 1: where he ended up. Where's that along that line? Um,
Speaker 1: it's it's um, let's just telling telling everybody that you know, uh,
Speaker 1: just don't don't don't be afraid when storm starts, and
Speaker 1: it will. But it's kind of a scary. It's funny
Speaker 1: because you're saying, gonna friend, it's kind of a scary song.
Speaker 1: It is, yeah, but I mean but it's like, but what, really,
Speaker 1: what can we be scared of these days? I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're if you're really in this day, and I
Speaker 1: mean if you're my age at least right. I grew
Speaker 1: up through the crack cocaine epidemic, the in the introduction
Speaker 1: of of of assault rifles to the streets, carjackings. Um,
Speaker 1: two bushes, Reagan, two bushes. Uh and and and now
Speaker 1: now and now Trump. What are you going to be
Speaker 1: afraid of? I mean you we better be we better
Speaker 1: get this is a we better get tough. We better
Speaker 1: get tough. Um, and realize that there's uh, you know,
Speaker 1: what's what's there to be scared of? I mean, the
Speaker 1: worst thing can happen is you die. Well, there's that,
Speaker 1: I mean, and that's over. What you got to worry about?
Speaker 1: Don don't be afright of something? Are you? What's your
Speaker 1: life as a musician? Now? Is it? Because I looked
Speaker 1: at your schedule? You too are a lot? I tore
Speaker 1: a lot. I'm you know, I'm I'm a good dad.
Speaker 1: I'm a terrible husband. Um, but I'm really good at
Speaker 1: what I do for a living. I know how to
Speaker 1: live on the road. Yeah. Um, I know how to
Speaker 1: do the shows. I know how to be tits and teeth. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the show goes on, get it done, um
Speaker 1: go um. But what I can't I'm bad at get
Speaker 1: me off the road for a week, two weeks. I
Speaker 1: want to beat my head against the porcelain just but
Speaker 1: I mean, like it drives me. I don't know how
Speaker 1: it works. I mean, I I don't know how it works.
Speaker 1: I've been doing this since I was fourteen years old,
Speaker 1: I mean toring since I mean touring Torran since I
Speaker 1: was fifteen. I mean, like, what what else do I know? Um?
Speaker 1: You know, my wife was like, you're messy. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm used to hotel rooms. I'm gone the
Speaker 1: next day, I probably like, you know, it's like I'm
Speaker 1: you know, I'm bad at it. My dad was never
Speaker 1: good at it, you know. Yeah, but but we committed
Speaker 1: to this. We you know, this is the thing. It's
Speaker 1: like anybody who wants to be around me, be with me,
Speaker 1: is understand that this is what I do. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. I do not want to die at home.
Speaker 1: I want to die in a tour bus years from now.
Speaker 1: But I do not die sitting up my damn couch.
Speaker 1: You know, you're not in Nashville anymore. You grew up
Speaker 1: in East Nashville. But I didn't grow up in East Nashville. Oh,
Speaker 1: I thought you did. No, no, no, no, no no.
Speaker 1: I grew up in South Nashville. The only time we
Speaker 1: went to East Nashville is when our cousins got out
Speaker 1: of prison and our aunt was having a cookout. Okay, Um,
Speaker 1: this is one of the things that obsessed people in
Speaker 1: country music. What's your relationship to Nashville. What's Nashville doing?
Speaker 1: What's the Nashville sound? Now? How do you look at
Speaker 1: what's coming out of Nashville? Now? Well, um, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of cool stuff coming out in Nashville right now. Um,
Speaker 1: but I got I hate the bro country shit. H
Speaker 1: I hate it. I mean, but most of the stuff
Speaker 1: coming off of music row is is I mean, I would,
Speaker 1: I mean it's horrible, I mean horrible. Um, but there's
Speaker 1: there's a lot of cool stuff that goes on in Nashville.
Speaker 1: You mentioned bluegrass, and there's a there's a terrific song
Speaker 1: on your album, which is there's many terrific songs. The
Speaker 1: one that really stood up for me was Appalachian Nightmare.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, which is And you say you don't want
Speaker 1: to sing it because it has too many words. I
Speaker 1: can't remember the fucker I can't. Yeah, it's got a
Speaker 1: lot of words. It's kind a lot of fucking words,
Speaker 1: but it's it's a kind of it's an outlast song.
Speaker 1: It's not quite a murder ballad, no, but it's an
Speaker 1: outlast song which has got a that's something else, that's
Speaker 1: got a real pedigree in in country here and much
Speaker 1: older music like well you know that. That was one
Speaker 1: of the few songs that I did take kind of
Speaker 1: like when I was writing that, when I when I
Speaker 1: got to the end, I was like, I'm gonna make
Speaker 1: this guy kill a cop and I'm gonna say it
Speaker 1: on the song I suggested. Was there a particular story
Speaker 1: you were thinking of with the new and Appalachian Nightmare?
Speaker 1: Was there? It? Was it a news event or something
Speaker 1: or was it just from your imagination? No, No, it's
Speaker 1: from friends from friends I lived. I lived in Johnson City,
Speaker 1: Tennessee for a while. Um, around Pokey, Tennessee. Um, and
Speaker 1: what goes on up in those hollers, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's something else. I mean, it's a it's a world
Speaker 1: onto itself that Um, it's a I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: I know I placed Butler Holler like in the nineties
Speaker 1: and Butler Haller around a Pokey, Tennessee. They the police
Speaker 1: wouldn't go down Butler Holler. They wouldn't go down the road.
Speaker 1: There was one road in one road out and it
Speaker 1: was just like it was just trailers like tilted on Neil,
Speaker 1: but it was you know, math cooking pill snorton like.
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember there was this great robbery and
Speaker 1: we were living in I was living in uh Johnson City.
Speaker 1: This was a I mean, I remember it because it's amazing.
Speaker 1: These two guys evidently pull up in front of a
Speaker 1: drug store in downtown Johnson City on a dirt bike.
Speaker 1: One of them has a fifty gallon and garbage can
Speaker 1: and they both have some kind of assault rifles strapped
Speaker 1: over their shoulders. They go in, you know, motorcycle elements
Speaker 1: on fifty gallon garbage can, you know, stick it up
Speaker 1: like fill it and just rake everything, all the pills,
Speaker 1: everything into that fifty gallon guardge can, run out, get
Speaker 1: back on the bike, take it, and they put a
Speaker 1: strap around themselves. Right and right as they were pulling out,
Speaker 1: the cops got on them. So they took off of
Speaker 1: eighty seven, took up Unicoi Highway and at that point
Speaker 1: Unicoi Highway wasn't finished. It ended, and it was just
Speaker 1: like a bridge that just stopped. Cops are following them, Boom,
Speaker 1: dirt Mike, just right off that bridge up the hills. Gone, yeah, gone.
Speaker 1: They couldn't follow them. They couldn't do nothing. As smart
Speaker 1: as hell. That's some hillbilly ingenuity if you but you know,
Speaker 1: you waited about four months and then the town was
Speaker 1: flo with pills. Right, Are those stories still you still
Speaker 1: want to tell those kind of stories? Yeah, because they're
Speaker 1: real stories. I mean, I mean, if we really think
Speaker 1: that most people, uh, I mean, most most people in
Speaker 1: America ain't got a pot to piss in, And who
Speaker 1: are we to tell them? You know, I do what
Speaker 1: I do to support my daughter. I don't care what happens.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do what I got to do. And I
Speaker 1: think they think the same way. You're gonna do what
Speaker 1: you've got to do. Our hearts go out to the
Speaker 1: friends and family of Justin Towns Earth. You can hear
Speaker 1: is the last album The Saint of Lost Causes by
Speaker 1: checking out our playlist at Broken record podcast dot com,
Speaker 1: and be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash broken record Podcast, where you can
Speaker 1: find extended cuts of past episodes and also new ones.
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel,
Speaker 1: Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler and his executive produced by Miolbell.
Speaker 1: Thanks to our CEO Jacob Weissberg and our President Malcolm Gladwell.
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. Follow us
Speaker 1: at Pushkin Pods and the Broken Record Pod on social media,
Speaker 1: and if you like Broken Record, please remember to share, rate,
Speaker 1: and review our show on your podcast at I'm justin Richmond.
Speaker 1: Bass