WEBVTT - Justin Townes Earle: In Memoriam 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:14.800 Pushkin, We're really sad at broken record to hear about 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.360 the passing of Justin Towns Earl. We recorded an interview 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:21.040 with them some time ago before the coronavirus put in 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:24.759 studio conversations on hold for us. Bruce Hadlin met up 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:28.240 with him at GSI Studios in Manhattan. Justin played some music, 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:32.560 they talked, as you'll hear, Justin was a gifted performer 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.560 and songwriter. He was the son of outlaw country musician 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.479 Steve Earl and got his middle name from his dad's mentor, 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:42.760 Towns van Zand. Both Steve and Towns struggled with addiction, 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:45.599 and so did Justin for most of his life. He 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.960 talks with Bruce about his personal troubles in this episode 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:52.000 pretty candidly, and their conversation about racial tensions in America 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:56.600 seems prescient now. Justin identified with people on the margins. 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:01.440 He wrote fantastic songs detailing Fringe Live with tremendous heart. 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:05.760 They were full of desperation, humor, and specificity, and the 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.480 best of the Southern songwriting tradition. We had this interview 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.560 scheduled to run next month in September when we heard 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.600 yesterday morning that Justin passed over the weekend. We weren't 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:17.880 sure we should run this at all. There's some really 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.400 deeply sad moments in this conversation with Bruce, but there's 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:23.920 also a lot of soul. So in the end, we 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:26.639 thought you might all enjoy spending some time with Justin 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.520 Town's Earl. His talent in life for better or worse 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:33.760 really shines through. We also hope you spent some time 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.760 with his music, whether you're returning to it or just 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:43.800 discovering it for the first time. This is broken record 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:52.160 liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Just 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.520 a quick note here. You can listen to all of 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.440 the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which 0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:59.640 you can find a link to in the show notes 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.160 for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced in 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:09.200 this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. All right, enjoy 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:13.080 the episode. Here's Bruce had them with Justin Town's Earl. 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:15.360 He starts with the performance of a song from his 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:22.080 last release, The Saint of Lost, causes Justin Town's Earl 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.160 with Flint City, Flint City, Shake It Flint City, Shake 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.720 It Flints all right. Yeah, that was quite an opening. 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.880 Thank you. So much. You gotta start out fast, man. Yeah, 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:35.600 you always store your concerts fast. I like to, you know, yeah, 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.200 try to, you know, but you know, you know you 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:40.359 have to. You gotta give him something to say, right. Yeah, 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:42.080 ain't gonna come out there and stare it. You know, 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:45.280 very few people can get that, you know, the Jeff Buckley, 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:47.760 you know, do that thing where you could stare at 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:50.960 your shoes and get away with it. He was great. 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:54.080 I saw it live. I couldn't do that. Yeah, I like, 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:55.679 I like the show to start. It's like I don't 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:57.519 want to see nobody come out on stage and town. 0:02:57.680 --> 0:02:59.680 It's like when I walk out, I want my guitar 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:03.519 tooon for me and hand it to me and let's 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:05.960 let's go. Um. So, tell me about the rating of 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.840 that song, Flint City Shake It. Um. Well, you know, 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.320 I think it was the first song I wrote for 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:17.079 this record. Um, and it kind of it tied into 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:20.440 this thing where I was looking at the way, you 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:25.200 know how like Springsteen made New Jersey so cool. He 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.680 made you feel New Jersey or before who you know. 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.680 But but you know, you listen to him, you know, 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:36.000 working on the Highway and things like that, like you 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.640 you get this this mysticism about it and this thing 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:43.040 where he made it romantic, made Jersey romantic. Yeah, that 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.040 bon Jovi sure as shit couldn't do that, you know. 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.600 So what I wanted to do is take that same 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.960 which he's a Woody Guthrie disciple, right, which I am too. 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:57.400 I wanted to take that same idea but apply it 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:02.120 to all of America. So I have. I wrote Flint City, 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:06.080 Shake it Um. Then I wrote Santa of Lost Causes. 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:13.360 Then I wrote Appalachian hypemare Um you know about Appalachia. 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:19.080 I wrote Ahistaminina you know about I based that on 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.360 a my my basis was a Puerto Rican kid from 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.160 the East village that from the Alphabets who got locked 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:29.200 up on mandatory minimums when he was young um and 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.680 was and got off a prison bus and met his 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:33.640 daughter for the first time. That's what I asked to mean, 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.520 he is about um. But but it's like that's that 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.800 the whole idea. And it's like I wrote over Alameda 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.600 about a kid from the Jordan Downs housing projects in 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:48.400 south central Los Angeles. It's a very old impulse in 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.320 American music that I think has been lost. I mean, 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.760 Springsteen wrote about lost, but he you know, he's from 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:55.720 New Jersey. He wrote about other places as well. But 0:04:55.839 --> 0:05:00.440 oh yeah, what is it about those songs or those 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.520 kinds of songs that people like Winnie Guthrie used to write? 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.480 What do you think that? You say, like, you know, 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.640 everybody's Americans. But in a weird way, the beauty of 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:13.200 those songs is it makes different parts of the country 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.240 more mysterious, isn't it. Well? I mean I think too, 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:18.760 It's like, yeah, it's like I mean, I hope that 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:20.760 it makes it mysterious. I hope that it makes people 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.680 intrigued by different parts of the country. I'd hope it 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:28.200 makes somebody figure out that. Like, you know, if you 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:35.000 lived in LA from the nineteen forties until now over Alameda, 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.400 that was the dividing line. It was a dividing line 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.760 between black and white. Was this so Flint City was 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.400 the first song on this album on your new album? 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.279 Was it? Did it kind of set the tone for 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.440 you with this album? Was it characteristic of what you 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:54.600 wanted to do? Well? I always have a conceptual idea 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.960 about my records, even from the start, even from the 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.320 Good Life. I had this concept of it. Even though 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:04.000 it's light like my early records, they were like except 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:07.200 Midnight at the Movies was pretty conceptual. I based that 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:12.520 on Gregory Corso's book Mind Fields, Harlem River Blues, I 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:17.680 based on Moving Here things like that. But um, I know, 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.479 I um, I always know exactly where I want to 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.520 start and where I want to end. And that goes 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.599 with songs and records, because I mean, it's just like 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.880 I'm not you know, I'm not pissing in the wind. 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:34.520 You know. It's like I'm here to you know, I'm 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:36.360 gonna you know, I'm if you want to be an artist, 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.920 It's like I write about twelve thirteen songs a year. 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:46.400 They go on my records. I think um saying of 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:50.360 a lost causes the song. Yeah, it took me about 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:56.640 six months to write. What did it start? As? Did? 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:58.520 It started? As it was with a lick, with a 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:01.839 lyrical idea? What how did it? What was the genesis? 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:07.120 It started with this this idea of I was I 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:09.360 was looking at It's like, you know, you're looking at 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:15.280 people like Eric Gardner getting choked out by cops, the 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.560 Me Too movement, all these things of all these people 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:23.720 like you know, it's like, wait, people, anybody black people Mexicans. 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:30.200 What women, we've we've traded them like horribly over and 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.720 and so what I was trying to get at was 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:38.160 the fact that if you keep poking at the underclass, 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.320 what you call the underclass, you know, you keep poking 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:49.559 at us, eventually we're gonna strike back and you won't 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.680 like it. Okay, So was it? Was it stuff in 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:54.800 the news you're reading, or stuff you were seeing up close? 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:58.200 That stuff I've lived through, stuff I've lived through. I mean, 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.680 I mean, you know, it's like everybody, I'm Steve Son, 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:05.040 but my daddy was. I mean, my mom was number 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.679 three of eight wives, you know, and he was gone 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.840 before I was two. I grew up with my mother. 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:12.960 I mean, I grew up. You know what, it makes 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.280 the best grilled cheese sandwich in the world, Government cheese 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.800 in the cardboard box, the best damned grilled cheese sandwich 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:23.200 you can get. And I know that because I grew up. 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.560 You know, I grew up with my mother, who worked 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:29.000 three jobs. I grew up with, you know, and I 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:36.360 gravitated towards a lot of dangerous people. And I've you know, 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.640 I've always been a street level kind of person. I 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:43.199 don't want to go to your martini bar and and 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:48.559 sit there and bullshit, I want to go to the darkest, dimmest, 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.960 most dangerous bar you got and let's get down with 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:57.080 the people, right because that's how most people live. So 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.600 that's where the song came from. That those memories, that 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.199 idea all of it. Yeah, yeah, well you said that's 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:04.840 where you want to start with the album. Where did 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.200 you want to go with the album? Well, what I 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.600 wanted to go with was actually when I wrote sat 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:16.440 Saint of Lost Causes, the song which will play next yep, um, 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:20.640 I knew. I was just like, okay, that's it. Now 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:22.600 we got to add up to that. Is this something 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:26.400 you map out very consciously or very feeling? Yeah, very Yeah. 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.680 So when you're writing that song, you're I usually know 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:32.360 where I want to end before I know where I 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.280 want to begin, and you just keep working until you 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:37.480 finished the record, I mean until you feel like you 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.040 got to start, when you got to finish. It's a thesis. 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:46.400 You need a hard beginning, a medal at an end. Yeah, 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:50.640 and only the most pertinent information are you that way 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:52.800 As a lyrical writer, you say you've got it. Oh shit, 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:54.600 you ought to see my note. But I mean, if 0:09:54.640 --> 0:10:00.800 somebody stole one of my notebooks, um, you may get 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.880 two songs, because it's just page after page of just 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:08.800 rewrites and rewrites and rewrites. And I always write number 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:13.520 two pencils, uh, and stint up pads. Always use the 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:15.720 same kind of pad always always. Yeah, I like to 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:18.240 you one of are you very precise in that way? Well? 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.360 You know, well, the only thing that I you know, 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:24.160 the pad, I like cineupads. It ain't necessarily the pad 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.000 any thing, but the number two pencil is the thing, okay, 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:31.600 because you can erase it when you get a bad idea, 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:34.720 but you got to remember when you had a decent 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.480 idea that maybe you didn't work out just right, and 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.120 leave that and not erase it so you can go 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.280 back and look at it and find another way to 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:48.280 toy it around and and you know, and get it right. 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:53.040 That I was reading this biography of Guy Clark, and 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:57.559 they reproduced some of his notebooks and it was sort 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.680 of done impeccably and hardly any revisions, which kind of 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.200 just stunned me. Maybe maybe they're just showing the good pages, 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.319 not the messy pages. Well, now he's the guy who 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.120 told my dad were always write number two pencil. Is 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:09.800 that right? And my dad told me I always write 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.200 number two pencil. Yeah. It's like he erased everything that 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.600 he didn't like. Oh okay that's why. Yeah, all right, 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.760 So you cover up your history. I'm gonna you can. 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:20.520 You can, you can, but you can only but but 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.080 you gotta always remember as like as like, we can't 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.679 all be as good as Guy Clark, So we have 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.600 to hang on to what we were, where we came from. 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.040 You know, sometimes you have to know what to hang 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.560 on to. Um. You know, keep two eyes on the 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:35.600 ground and pick up what you find, but be careful 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:37.920 what you keep when don't we hear Saint of Lost 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:43.600 Causes and then keep talking? Well, let's do that. So 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:47.200 for people listening wondering how many guitars are playing on 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.520 that song, it's just you, just one guitar. But you've 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.400 got this very interesting way you you strum and pick 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:56.760 kind of at the same time. I call it slid 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:00.480 a hand. Okay. Um, I learned bit of it from 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:05.480 Malcolm hokeom okay, yeah, great, great Sun House m hmm. 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:11.040 Did this? I mean they but you gotta do this 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.800 figure out this thing is like, you know, you gotta 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:18.560 get your fingers bent like crap. I'm looking at some 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.360 very ben fingers, very band and this thumb looks like 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:26.320 a canoe paddle. I mean, but but you get this well. 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:28.920 The other thing I was gonna say is uh, and 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.240 this isn't very common anymore. You justif really swings, oh man, 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.240 I swing like a pendulum. You know, it's it's a 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.000 you got you got to swing. I mean, if you 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:39.920 don't know how to shake your ass, then you mean 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.760 that's something. I mean, did you get that from Western swing? What? 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:46.720 I got that from the Blues? I got that. I 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:48.320 got that from the Blues. I mean, I got that 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.400 from listening to um. But you know I got it 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.640 from Stacks. I got it from uh I did? I 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.200 got it from Hank Williams. But you know what where 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:01.600 Hank Williams think about country before Hank Williams, Right, it 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:03.439 was just like, oh yeah, I said we're going to 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.760 this and all on top of the beat, right, Not 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:08.679 that it wasn't good, but it was all on top 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:13.239 of the beat. Hank Williams goes down to the Louisiana 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:19.199 Haye Ride and somehow, you know, everybody's like, oh, Hank, 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.160 Williams did this. It's like all he did was introduced 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:25.440 the twelve bar blues, the country music, you know. Or 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.400 before I'd be like I'm going down to the river 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.920 and then I'm gona no, no, no no man. But Hank 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:33.280 Williams comes in and goes, I'm going down to the 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:37.320 rip gone that day. You know, it's like whoa drop back, 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:44.359 sit back, relax, right, relax, I mean, relax about it. 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:46.800 But some some of your earlier songs like I'm thinking, 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:51.000 uh the good Life, the song that was very Western swing. 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.320 Oh yeah, no, no, I mean western swing was was 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.560 definitely a part of of what I loved, but but 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.080 it was it was weird how I got into like 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.520 I'm not I'm not. Um. It's more like when I 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:07.720 think about Western swing, I think about Moon Mullikin. You 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:12.920 know these these these these these stranger Emmett Miller. Um, 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:15.280 I think of these these different things. I'm Eman Miller 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.320 who wrote Lovesick. He wrote the Lovesick Blues. And you 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:22.040 know what, Hank Williams definitely saw Emmett Miller when he 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:26.120 was down in Lazianna Aza right, without question, where Edam 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.800 Miller did, he did Ragtime, I think he was. I 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:30.520 mean he was a black face performer. He was a 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:32.640 white guy who painted his face black and performed in 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:36.240 black face. Old minstrel show kind of thing. Yeah, Um, 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:41.160 and people don't really know how because it's so politically fraught, 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:45.040 how influential a lot of minstrel show music will was. 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:46.920 I mean, here's the deal. It's like people need to 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.280 understand this about what the minstrel show did. The minstrel 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.800 show for the first time. Um, before it's like you 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.280 lived in a holler somewhere, or you lived in a 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:00.280 bio somewhere, you lived on a rant somewhere, or even 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.800 if you lived in a city, you knew a version 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:08.000 of a song because your uncle knew how to play 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:09.960 it and he played it on Saturday night when you 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.600 all gathered together, you know, for your your gathering. So 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:19.480 everybody knew these different versions, Like nobody's versions were the same. Right. 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.880 This was before records were made, you know, So it's 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.880 like nobody knew the same versions for the first time. 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:33.720 The minstrel Show travels at travels and it introduces America 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:39.280 to a uniformed song like the the that's how you 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:42.960 play that song, you know that idea. You know, it 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:48.600 was the very first widespread given to all of America 0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:53.480 at the time, music that we had before radio, before radio, 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.960 before records could be made. And I mean, and of 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:02.200 course there's there's there's always going to be this uh, 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:06.120 this this stigma about it because you know, even black 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.720 people had to paint their face black to be in 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:13.200 a menstrel show, you know, right, Hell yeah, that's fucked up. Yeah, 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:16.320 I mean what minstrel, what the minstrel show did for 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.320 American music. We would not have American music the way 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:20.600 that we have it if it was not for the 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:25.640 menstrul Show. We wouldn't. We'll be back with more from 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:33.480 Justin Town Zero after the break. We're back with more 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.560 of Bruce's conversation with Justin Town zero. Do you remember 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:45.560 the first song you wrote, m I do um um 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.840 halfway to Jackson, So the first song you ever wrote 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.040 in life ended up on Finished Yeah, Well, a lot 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.160 of the songs on the Good Life, Yeah, a couple 0:16:56.200 --> 0:17:00.520 of them. Um. I wrote um halfway to Accent when 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:05.399 I was fourteen. I ain't glad I'm leaving when I 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:13.840 was fifteen. Uh, turn out my lights when I was fifteen. Uh, 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:19.199 Rogers Park. What were you what were you listening to 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:24.080 back then that that helped you write those songs? Um, 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.320 those songs we were back then, like, I mean, those 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.159 were the few, like there's I can't remember all the 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.240 songs on that record, but those were the few that 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.080 were the old songs that I'd had since I was 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.200 a kid when you know, because I was twenty five 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.480 when when when New Life came out? So those are 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.520 the ones that lasted, all right. I wrote a ton 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.840 of shit back then, like but when I was a teenager, tons, 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.840 tons and a lot of It's embarrassing as hell, but 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.720 you got to go through that. Yeah, you know, you 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.200 got to write bad songs, try them out. I mean, 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.120 and I mean it's not like you know, I used 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:02.800 to write a song and you know, I'd like run 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.000 down to Dad's studio when he'd be working, like run 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:07.960 down and be like, hey, look at this. He'd be like, yeah, 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.639 go back to the drawing boards. Soun as hard as 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.640 hell on me about it? Yeah, because you how old 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.320 were you when you started playing with his band? I 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:21.000 was fifteen? Wow, what did you see the music business 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.280 when you were fifteen? On the road? I knew it 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:25.320 was better than selling to up and going to prison, 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:28.240 which was which was what I was gonna do. I 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:33.040 was gonna let's follow my you know, mom's side of 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.760 the family down down the rabbit hole. Right, I'd be dad, 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.880 or I'd be in prison. Period. You know what, if 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.520 this ever ends, I can't make no money, I'll probably 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.480 end up in prison because I only know two ways 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.520 to make money. The only one's legal. All right, We're 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.080 gonna help you with this way because you know, of 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.600 course you get three square meals. I mean, as long 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.040 as you you know how to get you you know, 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.080 get your zuzus and lham wams. I mean, you know, 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.639 you'll be fine. So I'm kind of wondering this because 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.240 you know, particularly with music, a lot of music is 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.560 pop music and rock music is born in rebellion. When 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:14.360 you have a father who's kind of such a rebel himself, 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:17.920 how do you rebel against that? How did you how 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:23.800 did you separate yourself from your father's influence? You can't, 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:31.479 and you don't because if you try to, if I 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:35.439 said Steve Earl had no influence on my songwriting and 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.760 that he wasn't one of my heroes as a songwriter, 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.440 that would be the biggest I mean, the biggest lie 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.120 I could tell you know, was that the case when 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:49.920 you were fourteen? Well, we kind of just started getting 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.960 to know each other when I was fourteen. He knew 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:58.600 his music though, of course, you know, but it's an 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:02.479 interesting thing. I mean you have to realize that, like 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.440 any of those sons and daughters of they're like, I 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:07.320 don't wanting don't talk about my dad. I want nothing 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:09.119 to do with my dad or my mom. It's like 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.840 the fuck you think you are. It's like you, it's 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.000 like you. You you have to find your own way 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:18.280 incause nobody can tell me that I rode my daddy's 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.720 coattails into this fucking business because my dad can't play 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.280 like me. Um, I can't write like him, and he 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.360 can't write like me. We have a different I mean 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:33.440 we've we've we have distinct things that we do differently. Um. 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:37.920 But and you know, and we've done since I mean 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.600 shit like since I started making records. I think we've 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:45.879 done five shows together. What's that like? Period together? Five 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.560 shows though? Yeah, but what's it like when you play together? 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:51.480 It's it's it's something else you want to see. Two 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:55.480 Earl's butt heads holy shit. I mean it is, it's 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.000 something else, especially when we start playing together and I 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:03.399 was doing songs together, and uh uh. I always liked 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:05.240 to take one of his songs that he likes to do, 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:07.080 and I like play one of his songs that I 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:09.159 know he's gonna play it just so he can't do it, 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:12.680 and things like it. But no, it's it's definitely it's 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:14.600 a it's a head button thing. But I remember, I 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:16.639 remember the first time, you know, my dad telling me 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:18.880 go back to the drawn Bird. I mean I used 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:24.000 to play from noon until seven pm at the spring 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:31.000 Water in Nashville every Thursday, um noon until seven pm, 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:33.920 just playing and playing and playing and playing up covers 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:36.840 and songs that I wrote. But you know, it's like 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.680 he you know, I had to get that get, get 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.080 that test in get. You had to build all that up, 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:46.480 hide to build all that up, um and um. I 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:48.440 wrote a lot of songs and he said, go back 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.560 to the drawing Bird. But I remember the first time 0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:55.840 when I wrote Maria. I can't remember what record it's on. 0:21:55.920 --> 0:22:00.240 I think it's on Midnight or something. I can't but 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:02.400 when I wrote Maria, it was he came and saw 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:07.720 me at um radio cafe in Nashville, UM, and we 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:09.960 I was with my band the Swindlers at the time, 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:14.040 and we played Maria last. And when I came off stage, 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.800 my dad goes, well, hey, what was that Elvis Carstello 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:20.280 song you played? I said, we'd played an Elvis Carstello 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:22.760 So he's the last song. I said, that's Maria. I 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:29.440 was like, that's mine mine. He goes, really, I went, hell, yeah, 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:33.040 that was the first. Like I was like, yelp, doup 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:35.919 and and you know, and and I still can make 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:39.000 him cry with Mama's Eyes. Can you play the first 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:42.440 two bars of Mama's Eyes? Because that's pritting into this conversation. Oh, 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.560 let's say, uh, I have to do a little a 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:48.680 little bit of tune in for a second. But when 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:52.600 I wrote this song, I mean like it, it was like, 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.359 you know, it's like you gotta be ballsy, you know. 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:00.000 And I love the fact that when I came up, 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:05.000 But that first line that you know, do you know 0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:06.480 that like right there when I did that, I was 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:10.240 just like when I came up, I was just like, Hell, 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:14.600 I'm onto something. Yeah, I'm onto something. What did he 0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:18.840 say when you he first heard that? He actually the 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:21.920 first time he saw it was at a show. Um 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:25.760 he came and saw him. Um, I can't remember where 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:28.320 we were, Oh, the Rhyman. We're at the Rhyman Auditorium 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:32.560 opening for Old Crow, I think. And Dad shows up, 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:36.960 you know, like proud papa on the sides, and and 0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:40.879 I do do Mama's eyes and and you know, and 0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:42.680 you can see I mean I you know, I kind 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:44.920 of peek over and like you see him shrink a 0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:48.480