1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: It's that time. Time time, time, Luck and load. 2 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 2: The Michael Verie Show is on the air. 3 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: Yesterday we celebrated Columbus Day, which represents not the founding 4 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: of America, of course, that's not where Columbus arrived, not 5 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: United States of America anyway, but the modernization of civilization 6 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: in the Western world. The European influence that would lead 7 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: to a culture and country that would be the hallmark 8 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: of things like self governance, equality, the concept of natural 9 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: rights put into effect. Those changed the world in such 10 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: a manner as to be mind blowing. It can't imagine 11 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: the world without the US in it, because the influence 12 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: is so profound. It was important to President Trump that 13 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: we recognize that day, and he has demonstrated an understanding 14 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: of why it is important to celebrate our history, celebrate 15 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: who and what we are, and not to allow groups 16 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: among us to tell us we should be ashamed of 17 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: our history, should deny that history. You know, when in Syria, 18 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: when isis rolling through, they made sure to shatter the 19 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: great Christian artifacts. It's important to them to do that. 20 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: The idea is to destroy history and deny history. It's 21 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: the ultimate authoritarian move. It's a very ray Bradbury concept 22 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: that if you burn all the books there is no knowledge. 23 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: You create your own new knowledge, the Orwellian notion of 24 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: creating newspeak, your own language, where up means down and 25 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: down means up, and go means stop, and stop means go. 26 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: And before long you control the mindset and there is 27 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: no history to burden you. Well, you know where I 28 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: stand on the matter. I was offered the opportunity to 29 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: interview a gentleman by the name of GiB Kerr, and 30 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: he's written a book called Uncanceled Robert E. 31 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: Lee. 32 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: You have my attention. Give Kerr Welcome to the program. 33 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: First of all, tell me why write this book. What 34 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: is your interest in this movement? 35 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 2: I wrote this book after Robert E. Lee was unfairly 36 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: canceled by the womb in twenty twenty twenty one. You 37 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 2: remember the statues coming down in Charlottesville, En Richmond, and 38 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 2: I don't think that it was this was in response 39 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: to cancel culture. Like we're talking about, they're trying to 40 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: erase history, to kind of take what I call the 41 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: serve pro approach to history like nothing ever happened before. 42 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 2: We've seen that with the radicals throughout history. The French Revolution, 43 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: they did away with the calendar and started with year zero. 44 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 2: Is that nothing had ever happened before. We saw with 45 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: the Chinese Cultural Revolution, and it really arted here in America. 46 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 2: I trace it back really to Obama when he said 47 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 2: he wanted to fundamentally transform America. We found out what 48 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: that meant, you know, meant teaching our kids to be 49 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 2: ashamed of their past and to be ashamed of the 50 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 2: founding fathers and everything that made America great. And we've 51 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 2: been through turmoil, I mean, to the We've went two 52 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 2: years where people were kneeling for the national anthem, and 53 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 2: on and on and on and but you know, like 54 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: every radical movement before it, the American Cultural Revolution I 55 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 2: think finally went too far. And now it's flaming out 56 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: and we're in the middle of, thankfully, I think, a 57 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 2: great restoration of American values and restoring Roberty Lee, I 58 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: think is an important component of that. 59 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: Roberty Lee's contributions service sacrifice have not been forgotten to 60 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: history by neglect and intentionally obscured an erased. Why do 61 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: you think that is? 62 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: That's a good question. You know, Lee was widely held 63 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 2: as a hero North and South up until you know, 64 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 2: recently as twenty or thirty years ago. But I think 65 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: it really I think he traced it back to modern academia. 66 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: You know, higher education has been completely taken over by 67 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: leftists and historians like Howard z Enn. You've probably heard 68 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 2: of howards En, the Marxist historian who wrote the book 69 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 2: People's History of the United States. And Howard Zen said 70 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: that history is a weapon as a direct quote from him, 71 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 2: and that he saw history as a quiet revolution to 72 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 2: take over the institutions from within. And so now you 73 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: have historians that dominate universities. Almost every PhD in America 74 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 2: in history is a radical leftist these days, and so 75 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 2: definitely very many people to preserve the past and to 76 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 2: tell the stories. So some of the greatest UH history 77 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 2: books right now are being written from outside of the academia. 78 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: Unfortunately that's where we are. 79 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: Bye by necessity, as it turns out. But you know, 80 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:24,119 Speaker 1: I have to tell you I'm a Shelby Foot fan. 81 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: I love you know, that style of this, These people 82 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: that just pour themselves into studying history and and bringing 83 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: history back to life, and not just telling the history, 84 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: but giving you almost an experience as if as if 85 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: you were in it, and as a child. My oldest 86 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: son's name is Crockett, and I knew by third grade 87 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to have a son one day whose name 88 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: will be Crokeett. I was so enamored of the heroes 89 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: of the Alamo, being a lifelong textan and that has affected, 90 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: you know, many aspects of my life and who I 91 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: want to be, and what values I considered to hold, 92 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: and the idea of sacrifice because that was the ultimate 93 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting you make the point that so 94 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: much of the best history is being written outside the 95 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: university today. I think that is a reflection both of 96 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: the changing of the guard or changing of the mindset 97 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: of faculty and their political views, their their biases. But 98 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: I also think that is a reflection of outsiders recognizing 99 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: that this history has to be kept alive. It is 100 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: us like the protect Philip folks say, you don't own 101 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: a protect Filip, You just you just hold on to 102 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: it and preserve it for the next generation. I think 103 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: there's probably that recognition, and I get the sense that 104 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: that is the reason for you to do this, because 105 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: we can't lose our history to history. 106 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: That's right, you know. I always say truth is a 107 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: stubborn thing, and it cannot be erased. They've tried, but 108 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 2: now history is being written by attorneys, commercial real estate 109 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 2: guys like me, you know, people from outside of academia, and. 110 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: Hold on, hold with me for just a moment. The 111 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: book is uncanceled, Property Leela. Like the Berry Show, My 112 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: brother must have been about twelve years old or so, 113 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: and the husband passes and was learning to play the 114 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: guitar and the basic chords, and of course you sing 115 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: along to get a sense of it. I guess I've 116 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: never actually learned to play guitar, but I'm told and 117 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: in the book that he used to learn, he would 118 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: have to sing this song. And so it takes me 119 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: back to a good place, to remember our in our 120 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: little house, our rooms were right next to each other, 121 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: and the front doors both came at a kind of 122 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: a vortex of a triangle. So I would hear him singing, 123 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: and I would go and uh and walk in on 124 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: him while he was singing and give him grief over that. 125 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: So I don't know what what what inspired you to 126 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: play that gym, but it takes me back to a 127 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 1: good place. The book is uncanceled. Robert E. Lee an 128 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: open letter to the trustees of Washington and Lee University. 129 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: I guess it's not technically a book. I guess it's 130 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: it's a movement that has a manifesto as part of it. 131 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: Let me ask you, GiB Kerr is our guests. He's 132 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: written this. Have you had any you know, official communication 133 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: with Washington and Lee? What has been there? 134 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 2: Uh? 135 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: Their reactions so far? 136 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 2: We've had communication kind of through back channels, I would say, 137 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 2: to various members of the board of trustees. But the 138 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 2: president essicially won't talk to us. It's kind of hard 139 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 2: to make any progress when the other sideling engage with you. 140 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: So the man who was once the president of the university, 141 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: his successor won't speak to you about uncanceling this great man. 142 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: That's interesting, right, Yeah. 143 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 2: Lee's the one who saved the school after the Civil War. 144 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 2: He spent the last five years of his life there. 145 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 2: He's buried there on campus in the chapel that he built, 146 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 2: and the university renamed the chapel. It's no longer Lee Chapel. 147 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 2: It's called University Chapel. And they took his portrait down 148 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: along with the portrait of George Washington, and they built 149 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: a wall in front of the statue to block the 150 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: view of Robert Lee from the chapel, So they essentially 151 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 2: whitewashed it, and they act as if they're ashamed of 152 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 2: Lee or embarrassed by any affiliation with him. You know, 153 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 2: My take is that I've never felt the need to apologize, really, 154 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 2: but I do understand that the way that particularly younger 155 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 2: generation has been indoctrinated to demonize Confederates, and to not 156 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 2: just Confederates, but to really hate a lot of American heroes. 157 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 2: I understand that there's a real need to tell Lee's story, 158 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: and that's why I wrote this book. To tell the 159 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: truth about Lee. 160 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: And what is that truth? What is important for people 161 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: to understand. 162 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 2: Most people don't realize that the truth is that Lee 163 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 2: was opposed to slavery. Before the war, he called it 164 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: a moral and after the war he said that he 165 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 2: was rejoiced that slavery had been abolished. The truth is 166 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 2: that he was opposed to secession. He did not want 167 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: Virginia to seceed, but he felt like when Virginia did seceed, 168 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 2: that he owed his primary allegiance to his state, not 169 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 2: to the United States. That's that people things back then, 170 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: and so he was motivated to fight to defend Virginia 171 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 2: from the invasion of the Union Army, which he did magnificently, 172 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: by the way. And you know, the truth is that 173 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: after the war he was a leading voice for reconciliation. 174 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 2: He did everything he could to bring the country back 175 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 2: together after the war, and he bore all of his 176 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 2: suffering nobly, never complained. He wasn't a whiner, and he 177 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: was a noble character. And you know, you referenced George 178 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 2: Orwell earlier. Orwell said that who controls the path controls 179 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 2: the future. And America's path is incomplete without Roberty Lee. 180 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 2: Because he's the greatest example of courage and virtue in 181 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 2: American history. That's why we need him, That's why I 182 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: wrote this book. 183 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: What was your connection to this what interested you in 184 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: this subject in this movement? 185 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: Well, I first got introduced to Lee in fourth grade 186 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 2: when I wrote a paper on him. I still have that, 187 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 2: by the way. And then I went to school at 188 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: Washington and Lee and Robertie Lee was everywhere, and you know, 189 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighties, and his portrait was up in 190 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: every fraternity house. Even the grocery store had a portrait 191 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 2: of Lee, and Stonewall Jackson, and people still admired him 192 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 2: in those days. And so and I was in a 193 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: fraternity to Kappa Alpha order. Robertie Lee is considered the 194 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 2: spiritual founder of Kappa Alpha. We were taught to emulate 195 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 2: General Lee's character as pledges. We didn't always live up 196 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 2: to that standard, but we tried. And you know, I 197 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 2: was fascinated that Robertie Lee was everywhere, and I thought, 198 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: could anybody really be that great? He was treated like 199 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 2: a saint in the South, and being from Missouri, you know, 200 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: I had that show me factor. I thought, I got 201 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 2: to find out more about this, and so the more 202 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: I read, the more fascinated I became. That Lee really 203 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 2: is I think the most remarkable example of character and virtue, 204 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 2: maybe next to George Washington in our country's history. And 205 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: so that is I think a large reason why cancel 206 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 2: culture is targeting him to get rid of them, because 207 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: when they eliminate heroes, they're really eliminating the values the 208 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 2: belief systems that those heroes stood for. And that's Christianity, 209 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 2: that's the love of liberty. You know, that's what the 210 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 2: Panic fathers thought for. 211 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: You know, give you you made a point that got 212 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: my mind despiraling. So I think about historical events that occurred, 213 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: in this case one hundred and sixty years ago, but 214 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: in some cases even more two hundred years ago, and 215 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: I think about a relative consistency in the way in 216 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: which those events and moments and people and personalities were 217 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: perceived all the way or say, one hundred twenty thirty 218 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: years after. And all of that then changes after the 219 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: events and the personalities are long gone. They changed dramatically, 220 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: beginning I think probably sometime in the nineties and then 221 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: at the turn of the century, and within one generation 222 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: heroes or villains, and villains are heroes and good is 223 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: bad and it's an amazing thing. We're not talking about 224 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: how Lee was perceived shortly after the Civil War, because 225 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: he was revered. You know, it's interesting there's a connection 226 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: with Robert E. Lee in the state of Texas. The 227 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: song and the eyes of Texas are upon you, whichevery 228 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: University of Texas, Longhorn knows, actually comes from the then 229 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: leader of the University of Texas who had been at 230 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: Washington Lee under Robert E. Lee, and Robert E. Lee 231 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: would famously say, as you know, you know, conduct yourself 232 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: with chivalry and decency, because the eyes of the South 233 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: are upon you, and he considered that a great admonition. 234 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: Hold on just a moment. Give Kerr is our guest. 235 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: And the book is Uncanceled Robert E. 236 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 2: Lee michael Berry. They're all Duncans, And you know duncan. 237 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: Means give kerr is our guest. You pronounce a. 238 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: Curer, carry katy r r. 239 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: He is the author of Uncanceled, Robert E. Lee Gibb. 240 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that there are a number of 241 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: folks with whom I am in communication who are interested 242 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: in preserving American history, even American history that that the 243 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: Obama crowd has managed to extinguish and to paint with 244 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: a really really bad brush in a number of other 245 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: people who who were not raised with this as their 246 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: perspective are afraid to say anything. So they just they 247 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: just back away and say, well, we'll just we won't 248 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: think about it, we won't talk about it because we 249 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: don't want the we don't want the hive to be 250 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: buzzing around us. It's just easier that way. There's a 251 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: lack of courage, but you don't have a lack of courage, 252 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: and yet you're not an individual who is retired, which 253 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: is usually the situation. I find you have a professional 254 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: career to consider as well, and you believe in this, 255 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: and so you're doing it. I respect that. Tell me 256 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: about that. 257 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, I did write this book 258 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 2: at some considerable risk, knowing that not everyone is going 259 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: to agree with my point of view. I've worked for 260 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:53,239 Speaker 2: a large, publicly traded commercial real estate firm, and you know, 261 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: I could have been fired, and I might still be fired. 262 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 2: I don't know, but that's a risk that I'm willing 263 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 2: to take because I feel strongly enough about preserving the 264 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 2: legacy of Roberty Lee that I think people need to 265 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 2: stand up and tell the truth about him, and you know, 266 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 2: I'll deal with the consequences. 267 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: What has been the reaction that has emboldened you, that 268 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: has delighted you people You've heard from students, teachers, whatever 269 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: that may be. 270 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I've been very pleasantly surprised. I expected 271 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 2: the worst. And you know, there's been some haters on 272 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 2: social media. They're always out there, people that leave nasty 273 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 2: Amazon reviews and that sort of thing. But for the 274 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 2: most part, the response has been overwhelmingly positive. It's been 275 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 2: people saying thank you for standing up for Roberty Lee 276 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 2: and for what he stood for. And you know, it's 277 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 2: kind of taught me a lesson, which is that the 278 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 2: woke mobsters, they're a bunch of coward They don't like 279 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 2: it when you when you stand up to him. They're 280 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 2: like bullies. And you probably remember when you're a kid, 281 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 2: the best thing you can ever do to a bully 282 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 2: is punch him in the nose. Most of the time 283 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 2: they back down. So this book is kind of a uh, 284 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 2: you know, in a way, sort of a proverbial punch 285 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 2: of the nose to the left. And I hope more 286 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 2: folks like it follow. 287 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm amazed by the moment. I'm not sure 288 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: how well it's known that Robert E. Lee is summoned 289 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: to the White House to consider uh leading the Union forces, 290 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: and I think it was win Phil Scott was involved 291 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: and Lee's leadership and he was just revered. His leadership 292 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: was legendary. And he has this tough decision and he 293 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: comes home and he chooses his state, which of course 294 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: would bring ruin upon his reputation, his family, his wealth. 295 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: And yet I never got the sense that he regretted 296 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: that decision, did he. 297 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 2: No, he did not, He said, I think after the 298 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 2: war that he would have done everything the same way. Yes, 299 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 2: he was offered command of the army that Abraham Lincoln 300 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 2: announced he was going to raise in April of eighteen 301 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 2: sixty one. Seventy five thousand troops. Would have been the 302 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 2: largest army ever assembled on North America and the North 303 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 2: American continent. And Lee, you know, he had toiled away 304 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 2: in obscurity for about thirty years in the US Army, 305 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 2: never just surpassed the rank of colonel, and he was 306 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 2: given this opportunity to be in charge of the biggest 307 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 2: army ever and to be the commanding general and his 308 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 2: chance for glory and fame, and he turned it down 309 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 2: because he could not take part in an invasion of 310 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 2: his home state. Those were his principles. And so to 311 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 2: suffer the consequences, they lost their home at Arlington, which 312 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 2: is now Arlington National Cemetery, lost everything. And you know, 313 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 2: it's interesting that Lee never owned his own house, and 314 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 2: his whole life he lived in his wife's house at Arlington, 315 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 2: and then after the war he lived in the President's 316 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 2: house at Washington College. But no, he said, that he 317 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 2: would not have done anything differently. 318 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 1: Talk about his move to what became Washington and Lee 319 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: his move to be the university president, how that came about, 320 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: and how it went. 321 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 2: You know, the school had been raided by the Union Army. 322 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 2: It's right next to the Virginia Military Institute, which the 323 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 2: Union Army had essentially destroyed. And so after the war 324 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 2: they were down to only about forty students and they 325 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 2: were really teetering on the verge of insolvency. And as 326 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: a hail Mary, they wrote a letter to Robert Elate said, well, 327 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 2: you be president of the school. And to their shock 328 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 2: and surprise, he said yes, and he rode into Ted 329 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 2: on his famous horse traveler and assumed the presidency. And 330 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 2: they went from forty students over four hundred. Money came 331 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 2: flowing in to support to rebuild the school from both 332 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 2: the north and the south. By the way, and he 333 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 2: really he not only saved the school, but he shaped 334 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 2: the character of the school by emphasizing the honor code 335 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 2: and by his one rule. The students asked, and one 336 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 2: of the rules here in general? And he said, we 337 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 2: have one rule, and that is that every student must 338 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 2: conduct himself as a gentleman, and so that was the 339 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 2: tradition at Washington and Lane that he established. 340 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: It's amazing to me that after that war he should 341 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: seemingly be broken, and yet everything I've ever read was 342 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: not that. It was that he was very measured and 343 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: very thoughtful. But as I said at the beginning, which 344 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: has always struck me about him, that there was not 345 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: a sense of regret. He was a proud Virginian. He 346 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: loved Virginia. He did his duty, and I think he 347 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: left it on the field, and he felt that he 348 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 1: had done what he believed to be the right thing. 349 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: And that says a lot about the man. You have 350 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: not spoken about his deep faith, but that was the man. 351 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: It was family and faith and his state, which at 352 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: the time was like his nation. 353 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 2: That's right. And his faith was very important to him. 354 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 2: I mentioned he built the chapel where he's buried, and 355 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 2: he worshiped there every morning. I encouraged the students to 356 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 2: join him there, read the Bible every night with his family. 357 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: A very deeply religious man, and he also studied the Stoics, 358 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 2: as did most Americans at that time, studied the ancient 359 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 2: Greeks and the Romans, and he was particularly fond of 360 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 2: quoting the Roman emperor the Stoic markets Aurelius and his 361 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 2: meditation misfortune nobly born is good fortune. And I quit 362 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 2: that in my book because I think those words sum 363 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 2: up Robert E. Lee perfectly. Misfortune, nobly born is good fortune. 364 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 2: And so he turns his misfortune into into our fortune today, 365 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 2: which is his legacy. That we still remember him today. 366 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: And that you proudly carry the torch to remember as 367 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: we all should. The book is uncanceled. Roberty Lee. Give 368 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: Curry's our guest. 369 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 2: One more thing with him committed, had not been going 370 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 2: on down there, probably. 371 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: Give Curries our guest, and the book is uncanceled. Robert E. 372 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: Lee An open letter to the Trustees of Washington and 373 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:55,239 Speaker 1: Lee University. GiB I was. I was reading through some 374 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: of the materials I had on this, and there was 375 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: a timeline Will Dudley being appointed president of Washington and 376 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,880 Speaker 1: Lee in twenty seventeen, and then in twenty twenty begins 377 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: this effort to just scrub from the university its namesake 378 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 1: and his influence on this school, which, as you noted, 379 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: the school was almost abandoned. When he comes in and 380 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: makes this a very prestigious university with now a great 381 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: legacy of character and the sort of thing and values 382 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: that we would want kids to have. But I was 383 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: reading about let me see if I can find it 384 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: here a group called the Generals Redoubt. Tell me about that. 385 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an alumni organization that I'm a member of. 386 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 2: I'm on the board of. And the General's for a 387 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 2: Doubt kind of popped up organically among a bunch of 388 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 2: the Alarms who were upset about what was going on 389 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 2: at the university. So the Jonales for Doubt has been 390 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 2: spreading the word, raising awareness among alumni. We send out 391 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 2: a weekly email to about twelve thousand alumni and keep 392 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 2: them informed about what's going on on campus. We've raised 393 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 2: a considerable amount of money. We purchased a property outside 394 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 2: of town by the university where we have a national 395 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 2: headquarters now, so we've planted our flag. We're not going away, 396 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 2: and we're there to preserve the traditions, the values, the 397 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 2: history of the university. And we're engaging with students and 398 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 2: you know it's funny, the students love us. The students 399 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 2: wear our hats and T shirts and whatnot. The faculty 400 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 2: in the administration that don't really care for us too much. 401 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 2: The faculty, by the way, voted over is it seventy 402 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 2: or eighty percent in favor of removing Roberty Lee's name 403 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 2: from the university, which is unbelievable. 404 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm seeing here seventy eight percent after the president 405 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: appointed a commission to determine such things. You know, it's 406 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: a very I have a friend named Davin James, and 407 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: he has a song called a Bocco and s Freeway, 408 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 1: and it's about the music in Texas and how Nashville 409 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: has changed. And there's a line he has in there. 410 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: I bet they wouldn't let Wayland on the Rhyman stage today. 411 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: And the idea that the grand old Obry wouldn't allow 412 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: this great country music singer because it is so changed 413 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: to skinny jeans and pop music with a twang. But 414 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: good on you, good on you, GiB for doing this. 415 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: I think I have my own personal respect and lifelong 416 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: study of Robert E. Lee, which made this quite interesting 417 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: to me. But on a bigger scale than even that, 418 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: is the idea that ideas matter, that courage and conviction 419 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: should be our driving force, and that cancelation's greatest power 420 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: is the fear of it, because then no one stands 421 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: up for anything. And so I admire you for that, 422 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: especially because you are in the middle of your career 423 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: rather than being someone who has nothing professional per se 424 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: to lose. And I think that's fantastic. I think that 425 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: means you believe in what you're doing because you can 426 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: talk about it during the daylight hours to people who 427 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: wear suits and our potential clients and of course colleagues. 428 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: I think that's incredible. That is incredibly commendable, I must say, 429 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: and I hope that serves to inspire other people as 430 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: it should. At the end of all of this, what 431 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: have you come to learn? Are you more hopeful than 432 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: you were in the people of this country and their 433 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: courage or have you disappointed at how many people said, yeah, 434 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: Roberty Leave is a very important figure, but let's not 435 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: fight this. What you know, what do we gain from it? 436 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 2: Well, well, first of all, thank you for those nice words, 437 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 2: and yes, I am optimistic, and like I said earlier, 438 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 2: truth is a stubborn thing and truth always wins out 439 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 2: in the end. And we see we see the small 440 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 2: signs of progress, Roberty Leaf actually making a comeback. You 441 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 2: probably saw recently, they restored the twenty foot portrait of 442 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 2: Roberty Lee in the library at West Point last month. 443 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 2: And I know on your show you've you've talked in 444 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 2: the past about the Midland Lee High School. There's a 445 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 2: high school in Canadalla County, Virginia, the Stonewall Jackson High School. 446 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 2: They restored their name, and I'm actually involved in a 447 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 2: as an expert witness in a suit where they're being 448 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 2: sued by the NAACP to remove the Stonewall Jackson name. 449 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 2: But that's taught me that we need to stand up 450 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 2: to these bullies, because that's that's what these weolcome lobsters are. 451 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 2: They're trying to intimidate us in the silence, and we've 452 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 2: got truth on our side. We just need to stand 453 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 2: up to the truth and have the courage of our convictions. 454 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: I think the great scourge of this nation is an 455 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: inability to confront difficult aspects of history, and racism being 456 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: one of those. But it's important to remember that this 457 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: does not happen in a vacuum. There are people who 458 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: stand to gain from it personally, professionally, financially by stoking 459 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: things and encouraging things and stretching things into untruths. And 460 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: it's very hard to have the things and arrows of ridiculous, absurd, 461 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: hurtful things said about you and what you stand for, 462 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: and yet you have to do it right. There is 463 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: nobility in that, to go back to your Marcus Aurelius quote, 464 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: there is nobility in that. There's a strength in that, 465 00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: and it sustains itself. 466 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 467 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: I think this is fantastic, Gibb. I wish we had 468 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: more time, but keep up the good work. You are 469 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: truly an inspiration. The book is called Uncanceled. Robert E. Lee, 470 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: thank you for taking time to speak to us today, Concern. 471 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Michael really appreciate being on the show. 472 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: Don't give up, folks. Don't give up on our people, 473 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: don't give up on our land, don't give up on 474 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: our system. There are good people out there, and they're brave, 475 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: and they're courageous and their self bless and they stand 476 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: up and do what they believe to be the right thing, 477 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: knowing good and well that they will be called the 478 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: worst of names for it, and yet they persist. Wow, 479 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: that is just amazing to me. It really is. I 480 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: used the word when our guest was on. But it's 481 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: an inspiration. Let that be inspiration to you and be 482 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: an inspiration for the next person behind you. 483 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 2: Jentan Ellis has left for doing, thank you and good night.