1
00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,560
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

2
00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,440
Speaker 1: day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

3
00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,399
Speaker 1: important legal news of the day. You can find more

4
00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,040
Speaker 1: episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

5
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,599
Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. Roger Stone will

6
00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,480
Speaker 1: tell a judge he's sorry this afternoon, but she may

7
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,040
Speaker 1: revoke his bond and send him to jail anyway. Stone,

8
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,479
Speaker 1: sometime adviser to President Trump, posted a photo of federal

9
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,040
Speaker 1: Judge any Berman Jackson on his Instagram account with an

10
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,519
Speaker 1: image of what appeared to be the crosshairs of a

11
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,840
Speaker 1: rifle site behind her head. This from a man who's

12
00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,920
Speaker 1: been warned by that very judge about media antics joining

13
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,200
Speaker 1: me as Brad Moss, a partner, Mark said, Brat, this

14
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,680
Speaker 1: post strikes me not only as utter folly on Stone's part,

15
00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:58,319
Speaker 1: but could be interpreted as threatening the judge. Correct yet,

16
00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 1: and I can almost guarantee you that the moment his

17
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,160
Speaker 1: lawyers learned of what had been posted, they were probably

18
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,000
Speaker 1: on the phone screaming at him for it. This is

19
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,479
Speaker 1: something you just don't do. I mean, look, Roger Stone

20
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,360
Speaker 1: has been playing dirty political tricks and using the full

21
00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,120
Speaker 1: extent of the First Amendment since the sixties. This is

22
00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,000
Speaker 1: who he is. It's who has always been. He's the

23
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,120
Speaker 1: ultimate dirty tricks there. He propagates conspiracy theories and he

24
00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,200
Speaker 1: makes a vile commentary. The difference here is now he

25
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,200
Speaker 1: did it to a federal judge. The game is different.

26
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,160
Speaker 1: He didn't recognize that he possibly crossed the line into

27
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,840
Speaker 1: threatening the federal judge, which, as you noted, is a

28
00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,200
Speaker 1: federal crime. And he's the least going to get taken

29
00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,679
Speaker 1: out to the woodshed today. It's not quite clear how

30
00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,360
Speaker 1: much of a sanction or punishment he'll get. I don't

31
00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,880
Speaker 1: think he's going to jail today, but I think it's

32
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,920
Speaker 1: more than likely he's going to get a full and

33
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 1: complete gag order as opposed to what was previously opposed. Well,

34
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,400
Speaker 1: Judge Jackson is the same judge who revoked Paul Manafort's

35
00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,280
Speaker 1: bail and sent him to jail pending trial. Why wouldn't

36
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,320
Speaker 1: you do it here? The one difference there with mana

37
00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,160
Speaker 1: Fort was that was kind of the last straw there,

38
00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,760
Speaker 1: and in that case it involved actually trying to tamper

39
00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,600
Speaker 1: with witnesses. It was a little in my opinion, was

40
00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,000
Speaker 1: a little bit further along in the process and a

41
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,640
Speaker 1: little bit more severe than just a really stupid and

42
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,040
Speaker 1: childish post on Instagram. Could Judge Jackson try to make

43
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,679
Speaker 1: a point here and throw Rocher Stone in jail today, Yes,

44
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,640
Speaker 1: But I think she's also going to try to run

45
00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,480
Speaker 1: this one completely by the books, to try to avoid

46
00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:36,040
Speaker 1: any appearance of impropriety, any appearance of bias, anything that

47
00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,760
Speaker 1: could get reversed on technical grounds on appeal. You also

48
00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,880
Speaker 1: have to wonder, it seems you don't have to be

49
00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,680
Speaker 1: a lawyer to know that you want the judge that

50
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,400
Speaker 1: is going to try you to like you, or at

51
00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,280
Speaker 1: least not to dislikely like you. And he in the post,

52
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,200
Speaker 1: he also called her an Obama appointed judge and the

53
00:02:54,280 --> 00:03:00,200
Speaker 1: hashtag was fixes in I just look at this. This

54
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 1: is right the promise. Roger Stone is a man in

55
00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,680
Speaker 1: his late sixties. He's been doing this for decades. This

56
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,520
Speaker 1: is what has come second nature to him. This is

57
00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,320
Speaker 1: what you do. You smear and discredit the person investigating you.

58
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,919
Speaker 1: You call them names, you try to arise issues of

59
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,160
Speaker 1: political bias. The problem is he's never done it in

60
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,360
Speaker 1: the context of a criminal investigation, where he's been indicted

61
00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,959
Speaker 1: he had. He didn't recognize that the circumstances have changed,

62
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,320
Speaker 1: the game was different, and he caught himself in a

63
00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 1: vice here, and he is going to get in some

64
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,520
Speaker 1: manner of trouble. How much depends on whether or not

65
00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,400
Speaker 1: the judge truly finds him credible and authentic in whatever

66
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,640
Speaker 1: kind of apology I'm sure he's going to try to

67
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,880
Speaker 1: make today. Roger Stone is a great actor. I don't

68
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,440
Speaker 1: know if he can pull this one off. We shall see.

69
00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,240
Speaker 1: Let's turn now to the Muller Report, because there are

70
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,920
Speaker 1: reports that Mueller is going to submit his report to A. G.

71
00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,920
Speaker 1: William Barr as early as next week. We've often said

72
00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,119
Speaker 1: that Mueller speaks through his indictments. So is it possible

73
00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,840
Speaker 1: that there won't be any blockbuster information in the report

74
00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,760
Speaker 1: that the public doesn't already know. It's certainly plausible, though

75
00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,280
Speaker 1: I have a feeling I'm certainly expecting that there's going

76
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:16,040
Speaker 1: to be some politically damaging, though not necessarily criminally damaging

77
00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,080
Speaker 1: information that shows up in this final report. I think

78
00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:22,040
Speaker 1: a lot of what Robert Muller viewed his task as

79
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,920
Speaker 1: being was not so much to be the all encompassing

80
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,720
Speaker 1: special prosecutor who runs the entire thing forever and investigates

81
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,159
Speaker 1: and prosecutes everybody till the end of time. I think

82
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,839
Speaker 1: he went in there to find out the truth, outline

83
00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,600
Speaker 1: it in the report, prosecute cases were needed in the interim,

84
00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:38,680
Speaker 1: and then let the Attorney General and the rest of

85
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 1: the Justice Department decide where to go from there. If

86
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,120
Speaker 1: he's got something on the president, I think it's going

87
00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 1: to be outlined there in the final report. I'm pretty

88
00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,719
Speaker 1: sure it's not going to be a good day for

89
00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:50,920
Speaker 1: the Trump boy House when this report, or at least

90
00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 1: some details of it, come out. I don't know if

91
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,640
Speaker 1: it's going to be the bombshell, impeachment worthy report some

92
00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,920
Speaker 1: people were expecting all along. So ken Trump's family and

93
00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,160
Speaker 1: former aids now breathe a sigh of relief that they

94
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:09,160
Speaker 1: won't be indicted. It depends on what's in this report

95
00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,000
Speaker 1: and whether or not there were steps that could still

96
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,479
Speaker 1: be taken that Robert Mueller just decided it wasn't necessary

97
00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 1: for him to take because it wasn't going to further

98
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,320
Speaker 1: his investigative inquiry. So it could be that he outlines

99
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,119
Speaker 1: where there could be possible indictments of people like Donald

100
00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,680
Speaker 1: Trump Jr. Or Jared Kushner for false statements to Congress,

101
00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,280
Speaker 1: things along those lines, But that Robert Mueller decided it's

102
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,839
Speaker 1: not necessary for me to do that at this point

103
00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,680
Speaker 1: in the further end of my investigative equity. I'll hand

104
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,720
Speaker 1: that off the to the rest of the Department of

105
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,039
Speaker 1: Justice if they want to do so. That's at their

106
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,080
Speaker 1: discretion at this point to be that. So I'm not

107
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,200
Speaker 1: breathing any size of relief. So it's up to the

108
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,559
Speaker 1: discretion you mentioned of the Department of Justice, more likely

109
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:56,120
Speaker 1: the discretion of the A. G. William Barr. How likely

110
00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,800
Speaker 1: would he be to pursue that and how likely to

111
00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:04,360
Speaker 1: even let the public know something about the other individuals

112
00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,360
Speaker 1: who might be involved here or would he protect their privacy. Well,

113
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,279
Speaker 1: I think there's gonna be a lot of pressure for

114
00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,920
Speaker 1: as much of this report, or at least the detailed

115
00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,280
Speaker 1: summary of it, to be made public, and it's gonna

116
00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,359
Speaker 1: be someone and this is just my view, a bipartisan

117
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,080
Speaker 1: push to get it because both sides have an interest

118
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,360
Speaker 1: in disclosure here just as much as you know, Democrats

119
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:25,960
Speaker 1: and liberals will want as much of it out because

120
00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,160
Speaker 1: they think it will be damaging to the Trump White House.

121
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,039
Speaker 1: There's a lot of Republicans who want these details out

122
00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,359
Speaker 1: because they think it will exonerate him, that'll lift some

123
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,600
Speaker 1: of the cloud off the president. And if it's kind

124
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,440
Speaker 1: of hushed up and covered up and just a small detail,

125
00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,200
Speaker 1: you know, report given to Congress that doesn't explain a

126
00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,000
Speaker 1: lot of things, they worry that the conspiracies will never

127
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,000
Speaker 1: truly dissipate. So I have a feeling we're gonna learn

128
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,120
Speaker 1: a lot. I don't think we'll ever learned everything, but

129
00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna learn a lot of details about

130
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 1: people in the Trump circle, including the President himself. Which

131
00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,279
Speaker 1: do you think is the more likely route, Congressional subpoena

132
00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,800
Speaker 1: or a subpoena actual subpoena of the report or a

133
00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 1: subpoena of Robert Muller. I think there's going to be

134
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,680
Speaker 1: a fight over the report first. I don't think they

135
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,640
Speaker 1: want to go the route of trying to drag Robert

136
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,360
Speaker 1: Muller before Congress, if only because that will start a

137
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:19,680
Speaker 1: legal war between the Justice Department and Congress over having

138
00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:24,040
Speaker 1: him testify as a post too simply disclosing the report itself. UM,

139
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:25,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if the kind of kind of a

140
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,680
Speaker 1: last option for members of Congress to take. I think

141
00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,840
Speaker 1: the report itself will speak to whatever Robert Mueller needs,

142
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,960
Speaker 1: unless there was some controversy, unless there's an aspect where

143
00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,000
Speaker 1: Robert Mueller was stopped or you know, prevented from pursuing

144
00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,480
Speaker 1: an investigative line of inquiry. I think the report will

145
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,680
Speaker 1: do just what the indictments day, which they'll speak and

146
00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,640
Speaker 1: explain everything Robert Muller could say. Thanks so much, Brad.

147
00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 1: That's Brad Mask. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Law podcast.

148
00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,800
Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to the show on Apple podcast, SoundCloud,

149
00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,720
Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brasso.

150
00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:07,040
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg m