1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, Samantha. I love for Stephane never 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: told your production of iHeart Radio. So, Samantha, when I 3 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: told you we were doing these classic episodes on women 4 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: in space, you immediately started singing Rocket Rocket Man by 5 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: Elison John. Obviously, I and you immediately went to space Jam. 6 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: Apparently space Jam, Yeah, because one time I went to 7 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: a nineties party and I had met on my space 8 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: jam Jersey, which I know has made an appearance on 9 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: our Instagram, and somebody requested that song and it but 10 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: I didn't sing it or anything, but I like gotten 11 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: the center and people freaked out. It was the best 12 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: because they love you. They're very excited about space Jam 13 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: or one of the other. But I guess for space songs, 14 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: I think of ground Controlled the major Tom probably first. 15 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: But I wanted to ask you how about the Armageddon song? Oh? 16 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking about that the other day 17 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: because when our class when I was in sixth grade, 18 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: we went on a field ship to space Camp. It's 19 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: just a very formative experience for me in a lot 20 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: of ways. And on the bus, our teacher put on 21 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: Armageddon forgetting that there is a strip club scene and 22 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: also that kind of weird animal Cracker. Yeah, we've ben 23 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: Affleck And what's your Tyler lived? I lived Tyler. I 24 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: was gonna say Liz, and I'm like, it's not Liz 25 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: and she turned it off and we all were like no, 26 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 1: and she put on Flubber instead and we were like, 27 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: this is not all that I was gonna ask. Is 28 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: ee mainly a non stick order? Probably? But do you 29 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: have any like horror movie are kind of like a 30 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: movie you know that isn't really that great, but for 31 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: some reason, you catch yourself wanting to watch it a lot, 32 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: watch it a lot. Well, you would accuse me of 33 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: doing that with The Mummy too, I feel like, which 34 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: was a whole thing. I don't know if I would 35 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: say I don't love it, just like it just become 36 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: a habit that I've watched a lot of Star Wars 37 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 1: a lot and all of the subsequent series that goes 38 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: with it, and now I'm getting a lot of updates 39 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: with that as well. So do those count? Yeah? Sure, 40 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: I guess I have like a roster of horror movies 41 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: that I would say are not They're not necessarily bad, 42 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: but they're not good. But for some reason, I just 43 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what. I want to watch that 44 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: that movie again. One of them is this movie called Coherence, 45 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: which I watched last night actually, but it's about like 46 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: a comet coming close to the earth and then it 47 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: messes up like all these alternate realities, and there's this 48 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: whole plot point of you're trying to mark your house 49 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: so you know that you're at the right reality, and 50 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: so you like random numbers and pictures and items in 51 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: a box. And I was telling a friend of mine 52 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: about this, and she said something about we need to 53 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: come up with us saying, and she's, Malla is where 54 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: the money is. And she was talking about the holiday 55 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: special and she's she said, no one in any reality 56 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: has ever uttered that scenence. For It's like, I think, 57 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: you're right, We've created a beacon. This is a reality. 58 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: I know now it's gonna spread. You're right, I gotta 59 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: come up with something else. I'm going to keep it 60 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: to myself. It's true, you know what, though, And the 61 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: another one that I have not necessarily just continue to watch, 62 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: but it's new and it's about a new planet is 63 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: raised by wolves, which our friend Holly Fried has done 64 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: a podcast in conjunction with that. HBO Max show, which 65 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: have you watched this at all? Should? I? Well, let 66 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: me just give you a preference. Likes. There's a war, 67 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: there's androids, and they go to a new planet and 68 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: they're trying to save humanity, and it is an interesting 69 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: movie about what it would look like to settle on 70 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: a new planet, which I feel like that's what we're 71 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: trying to do with Mars. Right. Oh yeah, you weren't 72 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: working for us at this point, Smantha. But a couple 73 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: of years back, our boss at the time send out 74 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: this article about how we were all going to be 75 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 1: on Mars. It was it was a really good article. Um, 76 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: I have my doubts, but I do enjoy a space 77 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: thriller harm movie sci fi usually scare me pretty good, 78 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: which I like. But anyway, all that being said, yes, 79 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: there has been a lot of space news, so we 80 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: thought we would bringing back these classics on women and stargazing, 81 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: So please enjoy. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You 82 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:21,679 Speaker 1: from House Supports dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 83 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: I'm Kristin and I'm Caroline, and welcome to part two 84 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: of our Stargazing Women's series about women in astronomy and 85 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: before we dive in Caroline. I had a moment of 86 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: astronomical synchronicity happen in the car yesterday. Can I tell 87 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: you about it? Because I got so excited because we 88 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: were doing this podcast today. So I'm listening to NPR 89 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: per usual, and an announcement comes on talking about this 90 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: comment called the love Joy comment that was passing over Atlanta, 91 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: where Caroline and I are located. And I got really excited, 92 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: not so much about the comment, but because they interviewed 93 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: a woman astronomer at our local fern Bank Observatory all 94 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: about this comment, and I was like, oh, this is 95 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: a woman. She the podcast has come alive. It's a 96 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: woman astronomer. They exist, and she's so excited about the 97 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: stars and here this whole time, I thought when the 98 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: podcast came alive, it would be on Ice. No, not, 99 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: that's later. Okay, that's a that's one. That's a project 100 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: still in the works. You and I have to get 101 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: our our ice dancing. Yes, yes, um, but yeah, I 102 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: really nerded out in my car by myself. There was 103 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: no one to tell, so I just kind of yelped aloud. 104 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: Yes I was doing the same thing, but in my 105 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: bathroom getting ready to come to Wark. You heard the 106 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: same announcement I did. It's like it's as if we 107 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,239 Speaker 1: both listened to NPR. Yeah, it's like we're both total 108 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: nerds who knew um. When we left off in part one, 109 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: we had gotten up into this factory system of astronomical observations. 110 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: Women like Maria Mitchell were starting to make inroads in 111 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: terms of women and astronomy. You had observatory set up 112 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: at some women's colleges like Vasser, but we were still 113 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: kind of pushed off to this side in a lot 114 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: of ways. Right. A lot of the women who were 115 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: in astronomy in this era were definitely in the more 116 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: clerical positions. And it wasn't because hey, women are so smart, 117 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: we love women. Put them in the clerical positions so 118 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: they'll they'll make amazing discoveries. The popular opinion was more like, 119 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: we don't trust women to use their delicate lady brains, 120 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: so let's put them in these clerical positions so they 121 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: can pour over astro photography data for hours on end. 122 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: But the great thing is that even in these positions 123 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: of you know, supposed lesser power or lesser ability, they 124 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: still managed to make pretty amazing discoveries. And one of 125 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: the biggest names in this whole factory like setting of 126 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: astronomy was Charles Pickering at the Harvard Observatory. So, thanks 127 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: to photographic technology that was developing at the time, they 128 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: were able to see more than ever before. But they 129 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: needed to analyze all of these snapshots of the sky 130 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: that they were getting and it was very, very tedious work. Yeah, 131 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: and so Pickering had this guy as his assistant and 132 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what the guy was doing. I don't 133 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: know if he's fallen asleep on the job, but either way, 134 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: he's just letting Pickering down. And so Pickering was like, 135 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: screw you, dude, you're not doing your job. I need 136 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: somebody who's actually competent. And who did he consider to 137 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: be competent around him? Well, that would be Willemina Fleming, 138 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: his maid. She's a single mother who Pickering brings on 139 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: as his astronomy assistant because he's like, I know you, 140 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: you hang out around me a lot, and you're pretty competent. 141 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: And so he passes along all of this astrophotography analysis 142 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: to Fleming, who ends up working at Harvard for more 143 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: than thirty four years thanks to her skill at computing 144 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,719 Speaker 1: and copying, and she was the first woman to have 145 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: a formal appointment there. And during Pickering's time at Harvard, 146 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: which lasted from eighteen seventy seven to nineteen nineteen, more 147 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: than eighty women worked for him and mostly clerical capacities, 148 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: doing computing and cataloging work, and they are referred to 149 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: often as Pickering's women, or alternatively as Pickering's harem. Yeah, 150 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: that's just great, that's so great. Yeah, lots of lots 151 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: of respect, so much respect. But they were doing important 152 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: work despite the stupid name. They provided data that ended 153 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: up forming the empirical basis for larger astronomical theory. But 154 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: of course they were earning just twenty five to fifty 155 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: cents an hour, half of what a man would have 156 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: been paid in the same position. Yeah, and the Hard 157 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: Observatory is an interesting case study in how women contributed 158 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: more data, particularly on variable stars which your stars that 159 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: change in brightness, than their counterparts did. And it's largely 160 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: due to this system that they had set up of 161 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: all working together and sharing information and collaborating. And I've 162 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: got to give a shout out now to Cosmos, the 163 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: show hosted by Neil deGrasse Tyson, which in the episode 164 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: Sisters of the Sun, he takes the time to focus 165 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: on the women in the Harvard Observatory who were laying 166 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: the foundation for all of these incredible astronomical discoveries to come, 167 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: because without Pickering's women, we would know so much less 168 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: about the stars in the sky. Absolutely, and Doritt Hofflett 169 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: from Yale University, who herself was a giant name in 170 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: astronomy about variable stars in particular, and she talked about 171 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: how from the eighteen eighties, so Pickering's time to the 172 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, women contributed way more data on these types 173 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: of stars. Variable stars are the kind that change brightness 174 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: than their male counterparts did. By nineteen fifty nine, in fact, 175 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: women including will Amina Fleming, had discovered more than seventy 176 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: of the more than fourteen thousand named variable stars then know, 177 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: But we should back up first for a minute. Yeah, 178 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: we need to hop back to eight nine six when 179 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: a woman named Annie jump Cannon transfers from Wellesley, where 180 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: she helped conduct experiments on X rays, to Radcliffe College 181 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:45,599 Speaker 1: in order to make her way into Pickering's observatory. And 182 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: what she did was simplify Pickering and will Amina Fleming's 183 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: system for classifying stars and the work that Canon does. 184 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: The simplest way to explain it is that she, I mean, 185 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: she almost set up like a Dewey decimal system for 186 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: the stars. She figured out how to categorize and label 187 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: all of them. I mean, then this is still a 188 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: system that we used today, right, And in nine two, 189 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: this this definitely did not go unnoticed because in nineteen 190 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: two the International Astronomical Union ended up adopting her method 191 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: of categorizing stars, which was based on their temperatures, as 192 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: the official classification system. So that's no small potatoes, and 193 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,719 Speaker 1: she received a whole lot of accolades going forward. In 194 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: five she was the first woman to be awarded an 195 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: honorary doctorate from the University of Oxford, and in nineteen 196 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 1: thirty three, after becoming the first woman officer in the 197 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: American Astronomical Society, she established their Annie Jump Canon Award, 198 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: which is given to a North American female astronomer four 199 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: distinguished contributions to the field. And we will have more 200 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: to say about that award and how it changed later 201 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: in this nineteen seventies. But in nineteen thirty eight Harvard 202 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: appointed Canon the William C. Bond, Professor of astra Enemy. 203 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: So she is definitely one of the huge names in astronomy, 204 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: specifically as someone who came out of Fleming's you know, 205 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: group of women. I won't say Harem, I just said harem. Yeah, 206 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: we need a better name rather than I don't even 207 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: like pickerings women. Does that even sound so possessive? So 208 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: maybe we should rename them, I mean Sisters of the Sun, 209 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: which is what Neil deGrasse Tyson called them, or whoever 210 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: wrote his scripts. I thought was pretty good. And at 211 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: the end of that episode side note Caroline, he's drinking 212 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: some wine with this older woman. I think he's in 213 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: Italy or something, and he looks into the camera and 214 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: raises his wine glass and toast the Sisters of the Sun, 215 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: and it says that's well he should. It's an amazing moment. 216 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: But anyway, there's another woman that we need to mention. 217 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: He was working alongside Annie jump Cannon at this time. 218 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:58,719 Speaker 1: She actually joined the Harvard Observatory in just a year 219 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: prior to Annie jump Cannon. And this is Henrietta Swan Levitt. 220 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 1: And what she did was figure out a way to 221 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: measure the distance of stars really really really far away. 222 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: It's something called the Seafia variable period luminosity relationship. Of course, yeah, 223 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: I mean which obviously um so it's often referred to 224 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: as the distance key. And this made possible all subsequent 225 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: discoveries in astronomy of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries because 226 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: they could finally get dimensions to these farther away kinds 227 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: of stars. So not only do we have Cannon who 228 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: is labeling and categorizing all these stars, now we have 229 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: Levet coming along to offer some distance in there. And 230 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: then when we get to we have Cecilia Payne, who 231 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: then offers us this breakthrough information on the composition of 232 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: the stars. Right. And so what's interesting about Cecilia Paine 233 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: is that, you know, she makes these amazing contributions, but 234 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of self doubt in there. But 235 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: first let's establish why she's so awesome. Cecilia Paine is 236 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: the first person to receive a PhD from the Harvard 237 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: Astronomy Department, and her thesis rocks the astrophysics world because 238 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: she demonstrated that the Sun was made almost exclusively from 239 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: hydrogen and helium, thus its makeup was way different from 240 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: the Earth because leading up to the scientists had thought 241 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: that the Earth and the Sun were basically composed similarly. 242 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: But you know, Kristen, you and I have talked about 243 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: the imposter syndrome on the podcast before. To protect her reputation, 244 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: Paine inserted a clause at the beginning of her thesis 245 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: stating that the results were quote probably not real. Just 246 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: in case somebody laughed at her or said this is ridiculous. 247 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: She was like, oh, hey, I'm just gonna put this 248 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: here about what the Sun is made of. But who knows, 249 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: maybe it's wrong. Well, I mean she had already gotten 250 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: flat from professors. I forget, there's a specific guy at 251 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: Harvard who had looked at her work and was really 252 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: skeptical just because it was such a revolutionary idea. And 253 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: imagine too that your Cecilia Paine, and she came to 254 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: the United States from Britain specifically because in Britain at 255 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: the time, she couldn't go to college, she couldn't study 256 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: alongside men. So I mean, imposter syndrome on top of 257 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: impost syndrome for this woman who is studying theoretical and 258 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: anatomical physics and blowing people's minds at a time when 259 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: in the place that she's from she wasn't even allowed 260 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: to go to school, right, And her work ended up 261 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: laying the foundation for our understanding of stars compositions in general, 262 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: not just the sun, and a Guardian article referred to 263 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: it as the astrophysical equivalent of Darwin's origin of the species, 264 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: so clearly laying some amazing groundwork for astronomy. So did 265 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: a similar pattern of allowing or women into the fold 266 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 1: happened during World War Two for women in astronomy as well. Yeah, 267 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: I mean it definitely did. World War two shook up society, 268 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: as we know and have talked about many times on 269 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: the podcast. STEM jobs were definitely no exception because as 270 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: we've seen from the last episode on Astronomy and as 271 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: we're talking about now, educational and professional opportunities were definitely 272 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: expanding as more women's colleges were opening their doors to 273 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: researchers and helping women get a foot in the door. 274 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: Um not to mention the the social change as far 275 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: as ideas about women not being physically or mentally fit 276 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: to work outside the home or in scientific fields were 277 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: starting to fall away, and the notion about married women 278 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: needing to stay home was also falling away. Of course 279 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: it's not totally though, because that's still kind of as around. 280 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,479 Speaker 1: But during the war, during World War Two, there were 281 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: fewer male grad students around, and so there was a 282 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: relative increase in the number of female astronomers in the 283 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: nineteen In particular in the United States, the National Science 284 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: Foundation estimated that bachelor's degrees in physics reached a high 285 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: of up from fourteen percent in nineteen forty. And the 286 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: reason that we're pointing out physics and in particulars that 287 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: most astronomy grad students do have a physics degree. And 288 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: thanks to the technological research happening during World War One 289 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: that's fueled by military pursuits, astronomy is still an evolving 290 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: field because you get the emergence of radio astronomy, which 291 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: happened during the war thanks to radar research, and so 292 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: you have this combinations of new fields and branches within 293 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: the field and also fewer men. So in Australia, Ruby 294 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: Payne Scott became one of the first radio astronomers and 295 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: was the first woman radio astronomer, and she was also 296 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: an author on numerous early papers and became a scientific 297 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: leader until after the war, right, Yeah, when the men 298 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: start coming home from the war and women's overall numbers 299 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: not only in the workforce in general, but also in 300 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: astronomy and other stem fields. When men's numbers increase, in 301 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,719 Speaker 1: women's numbers decrease. After the war, pain Scott still managed 302 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: to make huge contributions to the understanding of solar radio 303 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 1: bursts and the development of radio astronomical techniques and instruments. 304 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: So that's great, right, Like she managed to hold on 305 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: when so many women were shoved out of the workforce 306 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: when men came home. It didn't last long because even 307 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: though I literally just mentioned a second ago that the 308 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: idea that women needed to stay home and be wives 309 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,719 Speaker 1: and mothers and oh you better not higher wives and mothers, 310 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: because women in the workforce are obviously like aberrations of 311 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: the norm. Ruby pain Scott was doing great. She had 312 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: to hide the fact though, that she was getting married, 313 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: and when she got pregnant she ended up having to 314 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: resign from the field. And of course this follows the 315 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: fact that she was also suspected of being a comy 316 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: and was definitely an outspoken feminist about getting other women 317 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: involved in astronomy and stem fields, and so people were like, wait, 318 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: so you're a comi feminist, outspoken scientific lady and now 319 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: you're getting married and having a child. Get out of here. 320 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: The world was not ready for Ruby Payne Scott. Now 321 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: it sounds like well, and when it comes so to 322 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: that whole marriage factor, this is a pattern that you're 323 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: gonna see throughout the next few decades in terms of 324 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: UM observatories and research facilities having these anti nepotism rules, 325 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: which essentially meant that if your husband is working in 326 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: a lab, then his your the wife is not going 327 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: to be allowed to work in the lab because that's 328 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: what they considered nepotism, which actually hampered a lot of 329 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: women's careers because I mean, it makes sense that you know, 330 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: you're an astrophysicist, you meet another astroid physicist, you fall 331 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: in love. You know, stars in your eyes literally the 332 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: stars aligned. So there, you know, that's that's that's sort 333 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: of a downer of a rule for a number of 334 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: these astronomers astronomers working. But of course, when it comes 335 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: to this anti nepotism rule, it's the wife who has 336 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: to go home, not the husband typically, which leads us 337 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: to second wave feminism. Yes, according to the National Science Foundation. 338 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: Though from nineteen fifty to nineteen seventy the proportion of 339 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: women earning bachelor's degrees in physics states still at about 340 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: four to six percent, So not a ton of women 341 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: studying physics. Yeah, but when you move into the sixties 342 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: and seventies, the numbers start to increase. In nineteen seventy two, 343 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: for instance, if we're talking about bachelor's degrees, women earned 344 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: seventeen percent of bachelor's degrees in astronomy. And during that 345 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 1: period of the sixties to the seventies, while the nomber 346 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: of female PhDs rose, the percentage of women in the 347 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: American Astronomical Society, for instance, dropped to just eight percent 348 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: by nineteen seventy three. So the numbers are sort of 349 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: all over the place. And during this time the job 350 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: prospects are still terrible for married women. There was a 351 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: lot of fear about women taking time off to have children. 352 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the workplace issues for working moms. In astronomy 353 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: echoes so many of the workplace issues we still hear 354 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: about today for working moms, that whole sneering at part 355 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 1: time work of trying to balance family and this really 356 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: intensive research because understandably astronomy is like say, being a 357 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: lawyer is a field that requires and you're expected to 358 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: pour so many hours. It's not a forty hour week 359 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: kind of gig. And with that, there are still echoes 360 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: of the Pickering's women or Pickering's harem era going on. Um, 361 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: which leads us to the story Joscelyn Bell Burnell who 362 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: discovered pull stars. F y. I pull stars are remnants 363 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: of massive stars after they've exploded. And I think that 364 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: before Burnell figured that out, we thought that they were aliens. Really, yeah, 365 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: the little green men. Really yep, I had no idea. 366 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: I'm learning so much from you, Kristen. Well, I'm just 367 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: I just learned a lot from Dale Grass Tyson. So well, 368 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: there we go. Um, and this is coming from National Geographic. 369 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: But in nineteen sixty seven, Burnell, as you said, discovered 370 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: pulsars while she was in grad school four radio astronomy. 371 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: Hey Ruby Paine Scott at Cambridge in England. And Burnell 372 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: was just, you know, no big deal, studying three miles 373 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: worth of paper from a radio telescope that she helped 374 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: build when she made this discovery, and hooray it resulted 375 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: in a Nobel Prize that's wonderful, right, Yeah, but the 376 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: Nobel Prize went to her male supervised there and another 377 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: male astronomer. Yeah. So Burnell, the way that she explains 378 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: it is the picture people had at the time of 379 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: the way that science was done was that there was 380 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,479 Speaker 1: a senior man, and it was always a man who 381 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: had under him a whole load of minions, junior staff 382 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: who weren't expected to think, who were only expected to 383 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: do as he said. So, how did I mean that 384 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: sounds exactly like pickerings women. Yeah. And I heard an 385 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: interview with Burrell on the BBC not that long ago, 386 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: and they played a clip of the male supervisor who 387 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: had received the Nobel Prize, and he stood by it. 388 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: He essentially said, well, you just have to understand that 389 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: there's a difference between the captain of the ship and 390 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: the crew. So when you know, if there's a successful voyage, 391 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: who's really to think? And so, I mean, this guy 392 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: clearly fancies himself a captain of of a pleasure group. 393 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: Do you think he wears like a jaunty captain? Sat? Yes, 394 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: I knew. And Belle Burnell, when she was asked by 395 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: the bb SEE reporter for her response to that she 396 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: was essentially like, that's where he stands. If I got 397 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: if I continued to get mad about this every day, 398 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: then I would not be able to do any work. 399 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: But she made so clear how challenging it was constantly 400 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: to be a woman in this field, even before the 401 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: whole balancing of family and career. When she first walked 402 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: into like an auditorium sized classroom in college, all of 403 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: the men in the room started stamping their feet and 404 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: whooping because that was just tradition, because she was, you know, 405 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 1: the only woman in the room, and so of course 406 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: she was going to get heckled. And so that's what 407 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: was happening when she was in graduate school. And then 408 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: she gets the Nobel Prize just snatched out from under her. 409 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: And a National Geographic points out that even though yes, 410 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: this woman discovered pool stars should have been given a 411 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: Nobel Prize, a cetera, many of the positions she was 412 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: offered in her career were focused on teaching or administrative 413 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: and management duties because that was still seen as more 414 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: women appropriate work. Yeah, and she does point out that 415 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: it was extremely hard combining family and career, which is 416 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: something that women today obviously still struggle with. Times have 417 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: not changed that much. But as of Burnell was a 418 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: visiting astronomy professor at the University of Oxford. She recently 419 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: chaired a working group for the Royal Society of Edinburgh 420 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: and she was tasked with finding a strategy to boost 421 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: the number of women in stem fields in Scotland. And 422 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: there was one more think here only that jumped out 423 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: to me. In that BBC interview we mentioned that the 424 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,360 Speaker 1: impostor syndrome and Cecilia Paine's work in the nineteen twenties. 425 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: Bell Burnell specifically called out the impostor syndrome as well, 426 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: and as she even asked the report, she was like, 427 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: if you ever heard of this thing called the impostor syndrome. Yeah, 428 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: it's essentially been something I've had to fight every single 429 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: day of my career, that sense of oh, well, no, 430 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to be found out at some point because 431 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: I surely I don't belong here. But obviously those feelings 432 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: of not belonging have nothing to do with her actual 433 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: intelligence and prowess, but the environment, the hostile environment she's 434 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: been working in now for decades. And then as we 435 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: moved through the nineteen seventies, there are a couple more 436 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: developments in the field of astronomy that had a lot 437 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: to do with women. Um in nineteen seventy one asked 438 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: her physicist Margaret Bourbage declined the Cannon Prize. Now we 439 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: mentioned the Cannon Prize earlier. It was supposed to go to, 440 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: you know, incredible female astronomers who've made great strides and 441 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: made great contributions to the field. But Bourbage said that 442 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: the prize was discriminatory because it was available only to women. 443 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: And the direct result of this was that the American 444 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: Astronomical Society established basically a Lady Committee that recommended the 445 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: prize become a research award for which women in early 446 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: stages of their career years could apply. The reasoning being 447 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: that women faced numerous disadvantages early on in their education, 448 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: uh in their grad school career and getting a career 449 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: going off the ground, and so yeah, basically the reasoning 450 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: was like, if we give it to women who are 451 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: still in school, then that's not as discriminatory. And so 452 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two they recommended that the a S 453 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: set up a group to review the status of women 454 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: in astronomy, and in nineteen seventy three that new Committee, 455 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: the Working Group on the Status of Women in Astronomy 456 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: released a report where they found that the percent of 457 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: women in the a S was the lowest ever in 458 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: its history, that women were underrepresentative officers and other people 459 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: in this group, and that the United States was seventh, 460 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: and the percentage of female members of the International Astronomy Union. 461 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: So basically, basically, this group is like, hey, women aren't 462 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: in enough places in astronomy. Yeah. And as a result 463 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: of all this information that they're finding out, the data 464 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: that their collecting about women in the field, in ninety 465 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: Working Group on Women finally became a standing committee and 466 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: as a result of their work, members developed what was 467 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: called the Baltimore Charter, which had the goal of promoting 468 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: a culture that would help both men and women realize 469 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: their full potential in STEM careers. So the question that 470 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: is what is that full potential look like for astronomers today. 471 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that when we come right back from 472 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: a quick break and now back to the show. So, Caroline, 473 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: what does being an astronomer entailed today? I mean, is 474 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: it have we learned everything there is to know about 475 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: the stars? I mean certainly not. You know, as we 476 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: mentioned in our first episode on women in Astronomy. Some 477 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: major discoveries were still being made in the nineteen nineties, 478 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: back when that Women's Committee was developing charter ys to 479 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: encourage people in the field of astronomy. We still have 480 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: so much to discover. But the field of astronomy itself 481 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: is relatively small, and this is coming from numbers from 482 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: the Bureau of Labor and Statistics. There are only about 483 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: six thousand professional astronomers in North America, and it's super 484 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: competitive because there are a hundred and fifty North American 485 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: job openings per year and there are one hundred and 486 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: twenty five pH d grads per year, so a lot 487 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: of people vying for not that many jobs. Yeah, and 488 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 1: if you do get a job, though, pays pretty well 489 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:37,239 Speaker 1: to be an astronomer. In the median pay was one 490 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: hundred and six thousand dollars per year or per hour 491 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: if you're you know, wanted to keep track of it 492 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: that way. And the kinds of things obviously that you'd 493 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: be studying include planets, stars, galaxies, and other celestial bodies. 494 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: And there's all sorts of equipment that's involved as well, 495 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: including ground based equipment like radio and optical telescopes as 496 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: well as space based equipment such as the Hubble space telescope, 497 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: which a lot of listeners have probably heard of. And 498 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: you generally are either making observations are working on theory. 499 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: So what are some of the modern observations that astronomers 500 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: today have been making, Caroline, Well, it's not so much 501 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: that astronomers are looking through a telescope and sweeping the 502 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: sky as the ladies in our first episode did very often, 503 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: but rather use computers and super sophisticated telescopes that can 504 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: detect radiation other than visible lights, such as gamma rays 505 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: or radio waves, and rather than making direct observations by 506 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: sweeping the sky with a telescope, theoretical astronomers typically use 507 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: data from observational astronomers to develop theories. And we should 508 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: also mention too that telescope technology has also spawned numerous 509 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: medical applications, so there are day to day repercussions of 510 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,959 Speaker 1: the work that astronomers are doing, and typically they're employed 511 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: at colleges, universities, and professional schools um they're also involved 512 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: in research and development in the physical, engineering, and life sciences, 513 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: and of course, if you are in aspiring astronomer or astrophysicists. 514 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: You can get a job with the federal government. You 515 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: can work for NASA or the Department of Defense. Right, 516 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: only of astronomers and astrophysicists end up in those cushy, 517 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: high paying federal government jobs like NASA. Most of them 518 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: are at colleges and stuff. But all right, so now 519 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: that we've laid out what astronomers are doing today, that 520 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: they're using big supercomputers, what does it look like out 521 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: there for ladies today in astronomy. Well, astronomy is usually 522 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: highlighted as a stem field that is friendlier to women, 523 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: which seems ironic considering you know, the Joscel and Bell 524 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: Burnell stories and the other ones that we've shared um. 525 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: But by and large it does tend to attract more 526 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: women than other stem fields, but it still suffers similar 527 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: leaky pipeline issues as we see all over stems. So 528 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: when it comes to the pipeline issue, it's usually the 529 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: same old tale of women starting out they're interested in physics, 530 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: are taking the courses and their bachelor's degrees, but they 531 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: don't make it to the PhD level. And then if 532 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: they make it a PhD level, there's a drop off 533 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: after that as well, right, And a lot of these 534 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: numbers though, can be deceiving. It really depends on what 535 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: phase of a woman's science career or astronomy career looking at. 536 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: Because we mentioned that uh, physics and physics bachelor's degrees 537 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: were important to talk about because typically that can lead 538 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: then to astronomy um And so when you look back 539 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: at middle school and high school, girls make up half 540 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: of physics students, but that number definitely drops way off 541 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: in high school and definitely in higher ed vucation. But 542 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: you also have to keep in mind that most high 543 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: school students or a lot of high school students have 544 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: to take things like physics or chemistry or whatever, and 545 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: so it's just important to keep in mind that, well, yes, 546 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: there is a pipeline issue. Sometimes you just have to 547 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: remember that certain things are inflating numbers and parts of 548 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: the pipeline. So if we look at higher education, and 549 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: this number is coming from two thousand three, so it's 550 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: a little bit dated, but women earn of physics bachelor's 551 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,880 Speaker 1: degrees and forty percent of astronomy bachelor's degree. So you 552 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: see there about astronomy bachelor's degree. So hey, we're earning 553 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: almost half of them. Well done. Also, I can do 554 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: simple math um now. Now, when it comes to the 555 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: faculty and stand alone astronomy departments, women make up only 556 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: four percent of faculty members versus ten percent in physics departments, 557 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: so you might there too have shoes going on with 558 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: the whole visibility factor. You don't see many women at 559 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: the front of the classroom in physics and astronomy. Yeah, 560 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: but there is good news and bad news when it 561 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: comes to women teaching and higher education. Women are being 562 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 1: hired into the professorial ranks at better than their availability rate, 563 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: but the proportion of women in temporary faculty positions and 564 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: like assistant professor positions is even higher. So there's still 565 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: a little bit of echoes of pickerings women where well, 566 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: it's great that they're getting into this field, many of 567 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: them are still filling the lower positions. But M. I. T. S. 568 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: Claude cannas Are has found that women were tenured actually 569 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: at a slightly higher rate than men, and that the 570 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: clock stopping so to speak, to have or adopted child 571 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: actually did not affect women's likelihood of being tenured. That 572 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: is so surprised. That is so surprising because whenever it 573 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: comes to women in academia in general, it's usually that 574 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: whole tenure track of having to do not only teach, 575 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: but also do the research and get published, and just 576 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: all of the hours involved in that that requires to 577 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: get tenured is often cited as the you know, primary 578 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: reason for that that drop off in women UM. But 579 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 1: when it comes to some gender imparity in physics and astronomy, 580 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,399 Speaker 1: the US is not alone in this. Most countries, in fact, 581 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 1: award less than a quarter of their first level university 582 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: physics degrees to women, and most grant less than of 583 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: their physics PhDs to women. But there is a PhD 584 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: that we need to mention. Astrophysicist Meg Garry, who has 585 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: been one leading the charge in terms of calling for 586 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: more recognition of issues affecting women in STEM how do 587 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: we close the leaky pipeline? Obviously providing visibility as a 588 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 1: female astrophysicist UM. She has echoed what knas Aris said 589 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: in terms of there's a lot of research showing that 590 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: pipeline and underrepresentation issues aren't necessarily about complications from having 591 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: a family or even conscious discriminatory actions, or obviously anything 592 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: to do with innate ability. So Urie has pondered and 593 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 1: written about a lot what is the issue, what's going on? 594 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: And something that comes up a lot for her is 595 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: unconscious gender bias. Yeah, and she points to several studies 596 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: that have shown that work associated with a woman's name 597 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,399 Speaker 1: isn't as highly rated as that associated with a man's name. 598 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: She also mentions that in letters of recommendation, women are 599 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: more likely to get words like reliable, while a man 600 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: will be deemed brilliant, and also the fact that women 601 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: and men don't necessarily respond to mentors coaching styles the same. 602 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 1: She also points out that the way that we're socialized 603 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: could have a lot to do with it. As I 604 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: mean as women, not just as like people or astronomers 605 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,839 Speaker 1: or whoever. She instructs women to own your ambition. She writes, 606 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: it really scares me the way young women dial back 607 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: their aspirations because they're anticipating that they'll have to make compromises. 608 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: Believe me, the young men aren't doing that. Okay, so 609 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: when's the last time we heard that? Kristen from Cheryl 610 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 1: Sandberg and lean in, Yeah, it sounds very lean in e. 611 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: She talks a lot about women needing to work at 612 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: something they love and something that they can publish high 613 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: impact papers about, so they can really make their mark 614 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: in that community because it is a small and prestigious 615 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 1: community and also develop connections with other women in science. 616 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 1: There's a lot of networking going on intentionally among women 617 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: in these STEM fields, and it's not just an issue though. 618 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,879 Speaker 1: When it comes to representation of people in STEM, it's 619 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: not just women. There's also a lot of attention that's 620 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: been paid recently to ethnic minorities as well as LGBT 621 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,920 Speaker 1: representation UM because, for instance, from ninety six to two 622 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 1: thousand three, only thirty five African American women in fifties 623 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: seven Hispanic women earned physics PhDs. From nineteen seventy six, 624 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: three and just seven African American women and twelve Hispanic 625 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: women earned astronomy PhDs. And honestly, all of the women 626 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 1: that we have highlighted up to this point, Caroline, have 627 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: been white. We should acknowledge that right and speaking about 628 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 1: boosting the representation of many types of people in astronomy 629 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: and having a greater amount of diversity. Vanderbilt University is 630 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: hosting the inaugural Inclusive Astronomy Meeting in June of this 631 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 1: year and their mission statement says that Inclusive Astronomy will 632 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,240 Speaker 1: serve as a welcoming, strategic venue to advocate and provide 633 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: resources for the inclusion in the astronomy community of people 634 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,720 Speaker 1: of color, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex, queer or questioning people, 635 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: people with disabilities, women, and anyone who holds more than 636 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,320 Speaker 1: one of these identities. Yeah, and on top of that, 637 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: we should mention and that the American Astronomical Society has 638 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 1: a working group on lgbt i Q equality to raise 639 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: awareness and fight discriminations. So it does sound like there 640 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 1: is progress being made in terms of representation, of paying 641 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 1: attention to these issues, of trying to level the playing field. Um, 642 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: so that bickerings women can finally be a past era 643 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: of astronomy. And I feel like a good place for 644 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: us to close out this conversation, Caroline, would be a 645 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: couple of living lady astronomers out there, because there is 646 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 1: one thing that jumped out to me in thinking about 647 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,359 Speaker 1: astronomy and astrophysics today, when it comes to women, there 648 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 1: are no Lady carl Sagan's or Neil de grass Tyson's, 649 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: and yet there are these women doing incredible work. I 650 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: think that we need a woman astronomer rock star at 651 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,280 Speaker 1: the level of Neil Degrass Tyson, whom I love nothing 652 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 1: against Neil de grass Tyson at all, um, But who 653 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,879 Speaker 1: are who are a couple of potential Neil de grass 654 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 1: Tyson's I mean, we've mentioned med Yuri already and all 655 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 1: of the incredible work she's doing in terms of writing 656 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: about basically diversity she's in astronomy. But one big name 657 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: we should mention too is Sydney C. Wolf. She was 658 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: the first woman to serve as director of a major 659 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,320 Speaker 1: U S observatory and to have led the construction of 660 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: six premier telescopes. She served as the director of the 661 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:32,720 Speaker 1: National Optical Astronomy Observatory in Arizona from seven to two thousand, 662 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: and she helped develop world class observatory facilities in both 663 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: Arizona and Chile and so She served as also the 664 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 1: American Astronomical Society President in nineteen one, not bad for 665 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,360 Speaker 1: a group that felt it needed an entire committee to 666 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,839 Speaker 1: examine women's role in the organization. She's the founding editor 667 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 1: also of the Astronomy Education Review, and her research on 668 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 1: stellar atmospheres and the evolution, formation and composition of stars 669 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,759 Speaker 1: is internationally recognized and Caroline. Since we started off the 670 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 1: podcast talking about comments, a good place to bring the 671 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: podcast full circle is Caroline Shoemaker for a couple of reasons. 672 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 1: First of all, Shoemaker holds the record for the most 673 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,439 Speaker 1: comic discoveries get ready for this, folks. She's found more 674 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: than eight hundred asteroids and thirty two comments. And with 675 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,320 Speaker 1: her husband Jean, she received the Written House Medal in 676 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: and the Scientists of the Year Award, and NASA awarded 677 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:39,360 Speaker 1: her the Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal in And her story 678 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 1: is fascinating because she didn't get into astronomy on a 679 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:48,800 Speaker 1: professional level until she was fifty one. First, she was 680 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 1: a stay at home mom and she always was interested 681 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 1: in her husband, Jean's work, and he often looped her 682 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,480 Speaker 1: into field observations and work that he was doing. But 683 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,080 Speaker 1: it was and until after that phase of being a 684 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,800 Speaker 1: full time mom, that she's been transitioned into being this 685 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 1: incredible astronomer. And she worked with her husband, Jean until 686 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,360 Speaker 1: he was killed in a tragic car accident at a 687 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:19,319 Speaker 1: California observatory. So, no matter what age you are, if 688 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: you're listening to this podcast, it's not too late if 689 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,919 Speaker 1: you're interested in astronomy. And I love this story though, 690 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,320 Speaker 1: because I mean it really to me sums up so 691 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:35,279 Speaker 1: much of women's history with astronomy because she's kind of 692 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,399 Speaker 1: it goes back to the buttons and breakfasts this year 693 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: that we were talking about in Part one of that 694 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,239 Speaker 1: concern of well, if women get too involved in astronomy, 695 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: then who's going to take care of the home? Well, 696 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 1: Carolin Schuebaker was like, I'll just do all of it. Yeah, 697 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,360 Speaker 1: well yeah, And it also perfectly illustrates our our themes, 698 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 1: one of our themes from the first episode, which is 699 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: that so many women throughout history have gotten into stem fields, 700 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:04,320 Speaker 1: stem job, stem hobbies and pathtimes thanks to the influence 701 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,480 Speaker 1: of a father or a husband or whatever. And so 702 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 1: here you have a very modern woman, Carol and Shoemaker, 703 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,760 Speaker 1: who is getting not only involved in astronomy but completely 704 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,759 Speaker 1: pursuing it passionately as a career and making all these 705 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: discoveries in the wake of her husband's death. Yeah. So 706 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 1: with that, I hope that there's some astronomers listening. We 707 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 1: would love to hear from you, or people who are 708 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:33,320 Speaker 1: just amateur stargazers or any folks involved in STEM, we 709 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,759 Speaker 1: want to know your thoughts mom Stuff at house stuff 710 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,319 Speaker 1: works dot com. Oh and if you have any suggestions 711 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,320 Speaker 1: for the lady equivalence of Vanil de Grasse Tyson and 712 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,839 Speaker 1: Carl Sagan. Really curious to know who your nominations would 713 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,120 Speaker 1: be for Lady Astronomer rock Stars. Mom's stab at house 714 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,200 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Again is our email address. You 715 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or messages 716 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 1: on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages to 717 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 1: share with you right now. All right, I have a 718 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 1: letter here from Steven following up on our history of 719 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,480 Speaker 1: Underpant's episode Uh. Steven says, I found it interesting how 720 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 1: you mentioned that women's equivalent for men's clothing were not 721 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,399 Speaker 1: only made more feminine through frills or lace, but also 722 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,120 Speaker 1: through terms like lady alls instead of overalls. As a guy, 723 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 1: I've noticed the same phenomenon with men's equivalent for what 724 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: are considered traditionally feminine things, such as guyliner for eyeliner, 725 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,240 Speaker 1: man purse for any bag a guy carries, and man's 726 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: scaping for his hair trimming choices. I carry a messenger 727 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:37,719 Speaker 1: bag is my everyday carry all, and I prefer to 728 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,840 Speaker 1: just call it my bag, or confront the occasional jokes 729 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,800 Speaker 1: directly and just call it my purse. It's amazing just 730 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,680 Speaker 1: how uncomfortable people can get when you start stepping over 731 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 1: the perceived gender lines, and how far they'll push to 732 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:54,000 Speaker 1: keep everyone pinned into gender roles and expectations. Me, I'll 733 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,840 Speaker 1: keep proudly flaunting my purse and wearing eyeliner wherever I go. 734 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for all the work you put into the podcast, 735 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,319 Speaker 1: and thank you Stephen for writing in Well. I've got 736 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,759 Speaker 1: a letter here from Olga also about our history of 737 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,080 Speaker 1: Women's Underwear episode, and the subject line is women's underwear 738 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:16,120 Speaker 1: in nineteenth century Serbia. So here we go Algar Rights. 739 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,520 Speaker 1: I'm a cultural anthropology student in Serbia and we had 740 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,520 Speaker 1: a Serbian material culture class in which we discussed clothing, 741 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 1: among other things. Nineteenth century peasant clothing in the Balkan 742 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,319 Speaker 1: region is influenced by both Western fashion, which came through 743 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,160 Speaker 1: the city folk, and Eastern fashion because most of these 744 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 1: countries were part of the Ottoman Empire for a long time, 745 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 1: which I find endlessly fascinating. As a result of this 746 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 1: kind of cultural collision, there were some mixed feelings about 747 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,919 Speaker 1: the transition to underwear. Turkish women traditionally were pants, under 748 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,840 Speaker 1: skirts that were split in the front, and vests instead 749 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: of constricting corsets. Serbian peasants also wore vests instead. Of course, 750 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:58,200 Speaker 1: it's no underwear of any kind except sometimes a chemise 751 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 1: and cheer white skirt. It's that fell just below the knee. 752 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,799 Speaker 1: And because that didn't cover anything at all, most parts 753 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,800 Speaker 1: of the country covered it with another article of clothing, 754 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: mostly aprons, and peasant clothing was highly symbolic, so if 755 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 1: you wove a certain color through your wool and apron 756 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,879 Speaker 1: while you were making it, you could express all sorts 757 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,760 Speaker 1: of personal feelings and social status is like a certain 758 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,839 Speaker 1: color might indicate marital status. So anyway, when the city 759 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,399 Speaker 1: women started wearing underwear, the country, folks, all is something 760 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: that only rich women, women in sports and prostitutes might wear. 761 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,520 Speaker 1: And also since poor country women didn't get to rest 762 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,839 Speaker 1: while they got their period, they would have to work 763 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,040 Speaker 1: through it. Meanwhile, I'm down for the account for at 764 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,759 Speaker 1: least two days when aunt flow comes along. And don't 765 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,120 Speaker 1: even get me started on dealing with pregnancy in the 766 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:48,040 Speaker 1: nineteenth century. Anyway, I love listening to you people talk 767 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,960 Speaker 1: about cool things. Keep doing what you're doing, so thanks. 768 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 1: I'll go for that insight into nineteenth century serbian underwear, 769 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:58,880 Speaker 1: and now I kind of wish that I had a 770 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 1: symbolic wool and a brandy. So if you have any 771 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,719 Speaker 1: costume history or facts about astronomers or anything else you'd 772 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,720 Speaker 1: like to share with us, Mom stuff at house. Stuff 773 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,399 Speaker 1: works dot Com is our email address and for links 774 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,160 Speaker 1: to all of our social media as well as all 775 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 1: of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, including this one with 776 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,919 Speaker 1: all of our sources so you can follow along, head 777 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,439 Speaker 1: on over to stuff mom Never Told You dot com 778 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,200 Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is 779 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com