WEBVTT - What is biophilic design? 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.280 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:17.079 Clark and there's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there. And 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:20.400 you put the two of us together. Um, put a 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.400 lit on the jar. Maybe poke some holes in the 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:28.160 top for air, put a bladed grass in there. Yeah, 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:32.479 maybe some cotton balls. Yep, cotton balls with um what 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.360 do they used to knock knock things out with cotton balls? 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.320 I don't know. From all, I'm sure, uh, and you've 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:43.160 got stuff you should know. I'm thinking of that scene 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:47.240 from E. T mm hmm where he brings the frogs 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:53.040 back to life. Yeah, he liberates the frogs, right, yeah, yeah, 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.480 And I think he like kisses a girl because et 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.320 is watching like a soap opera or an old bromance movie. 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.480 I can't remember, but great, it is a good movie. 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:04.759 I saw it not too long ago, and I'm like, wow, 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.920 this is really good. They also like the whole free 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:12.520 range kids thing. Man, those were the days. Huh. Yeah, 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:14.600 I mean we're on the border of showing that to 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:16.520 my daughter, who's you know, like five and a half. 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:18.720 And Emily it's like, you think she's ready for E t. 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.280 I said, well, I mean it, when when do we 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.720 want her to see the saddest movie ever? I mean, 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.440 that's kind of the question. It's just rather heartbreaking. Yeah, 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.679 you should show her et the first few minutes of Bambi, 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.759 the first twenty minutes of UP, just all all right, 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:39.360 all one after each other, and some horribleectually. Oh, she 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:41.480 can handle the first part of UP. She can handle. 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.000 E t all bat, I can't handle it. I know, 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:45.920 That's what I'm saying. I think the older you get, 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.920 the harder it is, you know. I agreed. Uh So 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:51.440 I got a little update on something by the way, 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:53.720 and I posted this to the Stuff you Should Know 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.920 Army page as breaking news yesterday. But I figured the 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.840 world at large should know that as of yesterday, my friend, 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:06.560 I'm no longer a squatter. Oh congratulations. Wow, then the 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:13.080 long national nightmares come doing. Yep. We uh walked to 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:18.240 check up to my County of Residents and buzzed a lady. 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.760 She came down to the lobby and picked it up, right. 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:24.480 Are you sure it was the lady who needed it? Well, no, 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:26.639 but she was going to give it to the person 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.040 who did need it. But they're just not allowing people 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:33.840 in the county buildings. But that was it, So it's done. 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:36.400 I mean all this came from the squatting started in 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:40.239 the squatting episode, which was like ten years old at least, 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.840 where you talking about house for fifteen years and you 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:45.680 had like a little plot of land that you were 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.320 you had been using and as we demonstrated in the episode, 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.160 like you technically had some sort of weird legal claim 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.280 to it. Now, Chuck, I mean, I think I remember saying, like, 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:59.040 it's not entirely clear that that technique even works. It's 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:02.160 just if there is a yeah, if there is a 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:05.160 legal technique that might work, it's that and you proved it, 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:12.400 right man, that's some serious, long term dedication to that episode. Well, 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.320 I just slight correction. I didn't get it through squatters 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:17.200 rights though. That really had nothing to do with it. 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.720 Oh what did it have to do with It had 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:23.640 to do with um County red tape and mumbo jumbo 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:27.400 and some back taxes and you know, it just takes. 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.280 I mean it took. It probably took five years from 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.560 the point where we engaged a real estate lawyer help 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.600 us out with it. Like that's how long it took 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:38.400 to cut through that red tape. Wow, that's a lot 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.520 of red tape. When you bring a lawyer in to 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:43.520 get a piece of land you're squatting on, there's a 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:46.280 lot of red tape around it. Yeah, but the lawyer 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:48.200 it wasn't like a ton of work, so that didn't 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.840 cost that much money in the back taxes was not 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.840 that much money. So it wasn't like a very expensive affair. 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:56.560 But we got it in the nick of time too, 0:03:56.600 --> 0:04:00.320 because I just found out that Georgia Power is they're 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:04.640 bearing power lines in our neighborhood and they had contacted 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.240 the county about that piece of land to like put 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:12.600 a bunch of equipment on last week. Wow. That is yeah, amazing. 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:18.160 So no longer a squatter. Wow, everything's coming up chuck today. 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.960 It is no longer a squatter and uh as of 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.280 coming up very soon. But by the time this comes out, 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:28.000 you will be half a century old as well. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:33.600 so what happened? Yeah, happy birthday, thank you man. Crazy. Yeah, 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.200 the big five zero that only comes once twice three 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.160 times in a person's life, you know. Yeah, forty was 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.279 kind of like alright, middle age, but fifty is like, 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:47.000 oh boy, I'm going downhill. How does it feel. I mean, 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.640 I don't really care. I'm the same person, but it's 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:54.400 definitely a number to be reckoned with some mentally. You know, 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:57.400 I'll ask you in a few years and we'll see 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.840 what you say. Okay, that's fine. I should probably just 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.280 I should probably just fill in the joke grave that 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.440 I dug for you in that squatted land as a 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:10.200 surprise for your birthday. Now that, now that you say that, 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.240 I didn't realize you were having any kind of struggle 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:15.559 with fifty. But no, I'm not. It's not it's fine. 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:17.960 It's just when you see it on paper, it's like, 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.640 oh boy, okay, who's that. Well that's good because I 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:22.400 really didn't feel like going to the trouble of filling 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.479 it back in, and when I say, see it on paper, 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:30.520 I've just I've been writing the number fifty everywhere. Right. Well, 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.480 I'm glad we had all these talks because it turns 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:36.560 out that our episode on biophilic design could have been 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:40.320 a little thin otherwise. Chuck. Yeah, I mean, it's not 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.120 the most robust episode, but it was kind of fell 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.400 between shorty and full length. I think, yeah, no, well, 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.320 we'll make some hay out of it, and it's actually 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.159 one of those things like UM, we talked, we touched 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.720 on it a little bit and our How Environmental Psychology 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:57.160 Works episode from October of two thousand nineteen, not too 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:01.160 long ago, because they definitely definitely tied to other UM. 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.960 But biophilic design is certainly its own thing. And if 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.080 you've been to like a restaurant or a hotel or 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:12.480 something pre pandemic, I should say, UM, and you saw 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.960 that they have like some vines growing on a wall, 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:19.560 or some succulents growing on a wall, or there's you 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.240 know a lot more natural lighting than there used to be, 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:25.799 or anything like that. You have been in an area 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:30.600 where there is some biophilic design going on exactly. And 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:32.640 we should point out that a lot of this material 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:36.359 comes from a gentleman. I mean, they're they're a handful 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.920 of people that sort of helped pioneer this idea. And 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:43.680 one of them is Steven R. Kellert, who is a 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.960 very much a revered professor at Yale of social ecology 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.040 at the Yale School of Forestry, which I didn't even 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:55.000 know existed at Yale. Yeah, Yale School of Forestry and 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:59.120 Environmental Studies. And UM I'm trying to see. I think 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.279 he just passed away a few years ago, but November seven, 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.039 I'm not sure the year though, Yeah, that's what's looking for. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:09.200 He was definitely one of the champions of biophilic design. Yeah, 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.000 so I think I get the impression that he was 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.960 one of the ones who really tried to connect science 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:18.720 to that that type of design UM, because there is like, 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.040 you know, it is extremely trendy right now, like I 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.920 was saying, but there's a real push toward um, you know, 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:29.120 backing up the assertions that this is actually good for us, 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.600 This type of design is good for us with peer 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.200 reviewed studies, so you know, hats off to them for 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.840 doing that too. Yeah, I think he passed away four 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.040 years ago. But that's a good point. It's one thing 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:43.440 to say plants are nice in the house, and it's 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.720 another thing to say a design concept can actually improve 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.680 your health and well being, which is what we're talking about. 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.400 I guess we should say what it is, right, Yeah. Yeah. 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:58.000 Biophilic design is based on this idea that we humans 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:02.640 have evolved, um, have millions and millions of years of 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.680 evolution behind us, and that most of the evolution took 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:10.800 place in the outdoors or at least in in deep 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:13.920 connection with nature. And it was only recently. Some people 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.920 mark the First Industrial Revolution in Manchester as the real 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.080 dividing line, but it was only recently that we kind 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.480 of transitioned away from that deep connection with nature that 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:27.240 took place on like a daily basis, and that as 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.360 a result, we've kind of suffered. And that biophilic design 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:34.040 seas to kind of say, well, we you know, we're 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.040 already kind of stuck in our buildings, were stuck in 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.079 our work life, but let's figure out how to incorporate 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.240 nature into that that way of living so that we 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:46.000 can reconnect with it because we really do need it. Yeah. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.960 I think I've seen a couple of studies that verify this, 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:54.079 that say that humans generally spend about nine of their 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.960 time indoors now, And like you said, that there was 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.800 as far as that statistic goes, that is very very 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.600 recent if you look at it relative to how long 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:08.440 humans have been around, you know, yeah, yeah, I mean so, 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:12.200 so there's this idea that if if we have literally 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:17.640 evolved to to gain sustenance and an ability to thrive 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.560 from being connected with nature, the converse of that is 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.199 that if you take people away from that and stick 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:28.439 them into highly artificial built environments like an office building 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.240 eight or ten hours a day, five days a week, 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.840 fifty weeks a year, they're going to start to suffer 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:38.480 and deteriorate mentally and physically. And that's kind of the 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.520 basis of this concept, is like, okay, if you if 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.240 we've got to work like that, let's work more in 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.920 conjunction with nature. Yeah, And there's a couple of cool 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:52.240 quotes here from you know, it's it's nothing new that 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.760 people understand that being among nature is, you know, a 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.679 generally sort of more pleasing way to live. But if 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:05.480 he could read from uh, the great Ralph Waldo Emerson 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:09.480 almost said thorough you could they were a weird pair, 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:13.240 you know what I mean? Yeah, which reminds me, I 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.760 think we have a literary correction on today's episode. Oh boy, wow, 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.760 everything's just coming together, it is. But he wrote in 0:10:20.800 --> 0:10:24.480 eight second series essays and this isn't you know, the 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.719 mid eighteen hundreds, Only as far as the masters of 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.320 the world have called in nature to their aid, can 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.160 they reach the height of magnificence. This is the meaning 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:37.960 of their hanging gardens Villa's garden, houses, island islands, parks, 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:40.840 and preserves. So I mean he was kind of straight 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.040 up saying it in the mid eighteen hundreds that like, 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:48.360 we can only peak as people when we are surrounded 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:50.040 by nature as much as we can be. And that's 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.040 why even back then, I guess they were trying to 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:57.040 bring the outside in and Emerson was like, right, guys. 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.319 And for a long time people were like, yeah, of course, 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.120 why would you say that, you're weirdo. And then by 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:07.079 about the mid twentieth century, Uh, the captains of industry 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.840 at the time said you know what, Yeah, they said, 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.680 nuts to the transcendentalists. We're going a completely opposite direction, 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.560 and we're going to show just how much we've conquered nature. 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:20.720 We're gonna do nothing but like straight lines and right 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:24.319 angles and um. You know, when the oil embargo comes 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.560 along in the seventies, we're going to decree by government 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:30.240 mandate that buildings have to be so tightly sealed that 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.400 not a drop of air can possibly escape them. Uh. 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.079 And everything is going to be totally artificial and controlled, 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.880 including the lighting and everything. Um. And we're going to 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.320 show that we've conquered nature. We don't even need nature. 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.400 And then in very short order, within just a few decades, 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.160 people started to be like, I can't, I can't live 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:53.760 like this. Um, I didn't see anything directly connected to it, 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:59.599 but I would hazard a really you know, armchair anecdotal 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.240 gap that you could trace a lot of the weird 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:08.160 things that people do, like um, mass shootings and office 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:12.599 spaces and workplaces and things like that to the environment 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:17.120 a lot more than people have directly have have traced directly, 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:21.480 I'll bet you could. I agree, it's a total guess, 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:23.960 but from what I can tell, that seems to be 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.240 largely in conjunction with a lot of the depth that 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:31.520 people have lent to biophilic design investigations. So that's fine. 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.720 I think it could be a factor for sure. Uh. 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:38.720 There was another gentleman the sixties named Eric from that 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.680 sort of introduced in the you know, twentieth century this 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.120 idea of biophilia. But I think it was Edward O. 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:50.040 Wilson who he's kind of known as the you know, 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.120 the twenty one century Darwin. He's a biologist and a 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:56.600 writer and a philosopher and an aunt specialist. But he 0:12:56.600 --> 0:13:00.920 wrote a book in nineteen four called biophila philia, and 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.800 I think that was where I think it's biophilia. I 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:06.960 didn't see an eye in that case, but I'm pretty 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.000 sure it's okay. Sorry, go ahead. I didn't mean it 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.679 correct well necessarily I know that know it may be, 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.000 but either way, that was I think. I think he 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.160 was the person who coined the term. That's the first 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.559 use of it I actually saw of that word. Yeah, 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.160 it's biophilia, like for love of life, for love of 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.520 living things basically. And I think Edward O. Wilson deserves 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:31.640 his own episode. He was an interesting dude um as 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.720 a boy, Chuck. I read an anecdote about him. As 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.240 a boy. He happened to be living in like I think, 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.640 around New Orleans when the first fire ants showed up 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:46.040 to North America. They washed ashore somehow, I think from 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.240 ballast or something like that, from a ship's a ship's ballast. 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.040 And as like an eleven year old boy, he was 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:54.640 smart enough to recognize that they were something new or 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.640 different and describe them scientifically. I think he was the 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.679 first person to describe your ants in North America as 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:05.160 an eleven year old kid, I mean, if your specialty 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.400 in your life, I mean, you had a lot of passions, 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.360 but if your main life fashion is ants, then you're 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.600 pretty cool in my book. Ye. So this whole theory 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.679 of biophilia basically says what we were saying. What biophilic 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:21.400 design is based on, that that humans evolved to get 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:24.000 their cues and their happiness and their well being and 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:28.800 our our ability to thrive from our natural settings UM, 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.800 and that we just have like a deep need to 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:35.240 connect with nature, and that when we don't, bad things 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.040 can happen basically to our well being, even things we 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:41.160 don't necessarily put our finger on as being the result 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.320 of not being connected to nature. But it's still it 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:48.240 still is, it's still what the underlying thing is. And 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:54.120 apparently biophilic design, as far as architecture and interior design go, UM, 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.680 it finds its roots a little more even even more 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:00.600 recently than UM than Edward or wils And it actually 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.680 comes out of the nineties when there was a movement 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:08.120 to change zoo enclosures to make them more naturally that 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:13.040 that's that's where this whole movement of UM living plant 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:18.640 walls at your local Hyatt hotel lobby comes from zoo enclosures, 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:20.600 which is really kind of eye opening when you realize 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.680 that's the basis of it. I think that's a great 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:28.600 place for a medium cliffhanger. Okay, I'll take medium today. 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:53.200 All right, we'll be right back after this. Alright, So 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.520 medium cliffhanger, you introduce the idea that it was really 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.760 in the nineties when um they started to redo zoo 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.960 and closures where this idea for humans sprung up. And 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.800 I guess the only cliffhang areas who kind of helped 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:12.280 lead that charge. And it's a psychologist name Judith here Wagon. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.480 I would say here Wagan, but uh, in America, it's 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.240 probably here Wagon. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. At the at 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:21.680 the Seattle Zoo, right, Yeah, she was a graduate student, 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.480 and this was I can't believe this was the nineties 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.800 and not the sixties, but I guess it took a 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.760 while before we started saying and this wasn't every zoo, 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:33.760 but there were still a lot of zoos then that 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.440 you know, would keep a gorilla and a monkey in 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:41.160 a in a cage. And they sat up and people 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:42.720 like Judah said, you know what, why don't we make 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.720 this more like their habitat because they're experiencing zookosis they're fighting, 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.720 they're not social, they're not reproducing. That's a big problem. 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:54.400 And out of that was born the same idea for humans, 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.320 which is funny that it took so long from the 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:00.640 nineties to kind of really take hold more with humans 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.760 because we called it inhumane for animals, but for us. 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:05.680 I guess it was just fine. Maybe they just didn't 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.720 see the connection. Yeah, I suppose they didn't, because the 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:13.040 way that they changed the zoo animals enclosures for the 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.600 better was to make them much more like their natural habitat. 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.119 And you know, the animals that live at the zoo 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.440 are far more recently removed from their natural habitats, so 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:27.240 we can imagine them in a grassland with some trees 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:31.360 like a savannah, or living among antelope or something like that. 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.280 All of these techniques that they brought together to make 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.800 their there the places where they lived at zoos a 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:40.600 lot more like the ecosystems that they lived in um 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.480 back home. UM. When you when you think of humans, 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.720 you don't think of us living on savannahs or grasslands. 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.480 But that's the very basis of this idea, this theory 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:54.480 of biophilia, is that that's where we evolved on the savannah, 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.280 these big open grassy meadows with lots of trees and 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:03.359 probably some water somewhere trickling by just basically everything that 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.639 any human alive thinks of as an idyllic outdoor place. 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.239 That that's the kind of setting that we evolved in, 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.320 and that that's the kind of habitat that we need 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.160 to interact with two just as much as zoo animals does. 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:19.840 And it's like our technology made us forget that we're animals. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:21.760 What happened, you know what I'm saying, Like we we 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.840 lost that memory, And so I think that's why it 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.159 wasn't the opposite like, oh, we need to make a 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.119 better habitat for humans and then make it for zoo animals. 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:31.800 It was the opposite way around, because we don't think 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:35.280 of ourselves as as animals any longer. Yeah, I think 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:40.159 we thought our natural habitat is the building, you know exactly. 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.520 So it goes to step further though, Like it's much 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.360 more than just put in some plants or a fountain 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:50.000 that makes a nice trickling sound. They really want to 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:54.040 get into sort of the evolutionary aspect of the whole thing, 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:59.160 and that, uh, if it was a benefit evolutionarily over 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:03.760 time over the millennia. Then that's what's going to contribute 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.760 to the actual health and well being. So it can't 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.520 be It had to be an actual thing that really 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.439 improved us for you know, thousands or millions of years, 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:17.000 not just something that maybe went away like or like 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.679 a desert habitat or something like that. It had to 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.360 be something in order to you know, for the science 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.879 to work, and we'll get to that, something that really 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:29.400 contributed as we evolved to our well being. Yeah. So, 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.920 like again we come back to that savannah hypothesis which um, 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.240 which means that if you're designing something that kind of 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.119 seeks to emulate a savannah, well, there's lots of high 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:42.840 open spaces, so you might have like a really soaring atrium, 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:45.760 lots of trees that you can just put some trees 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.639 into that atrium. Again, a little bit of a water feature. Um. 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:51.879 One of the other big things that's kind of like 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.720 a foundation of biophilic design is it's like you're saying 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:56.760 you can just put a water feature in and put 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.160 a tree in and call it a day. Like there 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:02.000 actually needs to be thought into how these things interact 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:05.520 and form a cohesive whole. You know, you don't you 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.240 you want to see the forest, not the trees when 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.119 you're creating biophilic design, and that that they kind of 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:16.600 have to to fit together correctly in an intuitive way 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:20.480 or else that in eight sense that evolved in the savannah, 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.520 that's lodged in all of our brains. Well, no, like 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.000 this is fake and it probably won't have a benefit 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:28.200 for us, and it might even have a negative benefit 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.560 if it's not done correctly. Yeah, Like the idea is 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:36.840 to create an indoor ecosystem that sort of mimics the 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.560 outdoors in a lot of ways. Like the the it's bigger, 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:42.280 the whole is bigger than the sum of its part. 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.200 If you really want the individual to have a genuine, 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.359 you know, improvement in their health and well being. And 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:52.679 like I said, not just hey, this bank put a 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.720 palm tree in the corner, right, isn't it? Isn't it 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.199 nice to look at? Yeah? But I mean that's something. 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.280 It's better than nothing. But I think the fact that 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:04.880 seeing a potted plant in a place like a bank, 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.800 even back in the mid century was not weird or jarring, 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:10.840 like it just looked like, yeah, of course you would 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.119 do that. There is this kind of like early trace 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:18.200 evidence of like this kind of like a cry for help, like, hey, 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:22.399 we we need something, We need something natural in here. Um, 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:25.240 even a fake potted plant to fool us into thinking 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:27.800 that that there's some sort of nature here. But yeah, 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:32.639 biophilic design basically says, forget your potted plant, Like, we 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:35.479 need like a whole planning, whole cropping, a whole little 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.840 um like a garden, like a glade, something that that 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:43.360 looks natural, not just a single plant in a pot 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:47.359 in a corner. That's not good enough. Yeah, and sort 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:49.159 of one of the third tenants is that you have 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:53.840 to kind of engage and interact with this. Uh, there's 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:57.359 the idea that biophilia is what's known as a weak 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:02.040 biological tendency instead of a hardwired in and that means 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:04.240 if it's a weak one, that means that you gotta 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:06.760 work on it and it has to be nurtured. And 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:11.200 you know, maybe this could be employed like instead of Uh, 0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:14.640 a plant wall is very nice, but what's even better 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:17.760 is a hallway lined with plants that you have to 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:21.360 literally walk through and interact with. Yeah. Like, the idea 0:22:21.400 --> 0:22:25.520 behind this kind of foundational concept is that if you're 0:22:25.560 --> 0:22:31.800 really creating a biophilically designed UM workplace for your employees. 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:36.000 UM putting you know, everything you got into the foyer 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:40.400 or the atrium or where the reception desk is. It's 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.240 gonna wow the people who come through the doors, but 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:45.959 when they pass through, they're entering just a normal office 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:50.160 and it loses all of its impact. Like that receptionist 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:53.119 is gonna be working like gangbusters and probably have the 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:56.800 best life they possibly could, but everybody else who works there, 0:22:56.840 --> 0:23:00.560 who just passes through the lobby is not going to 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:02.439 really benefit from it. It needs to be kind of 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:07.920 constant and UM. It can be ephemeral, like it can 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:10.679 be kind of fleeting or passing, but there needs to 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:14.760 be like the constant possibility of fleeting and ephemeral contact 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:17.639 with nature, so that over the course of an entire 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:20.520