1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Also media. 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 2: Hey everyone, this is it could happen here and I'm 3 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 2: your guest host, Matt Leeb. I'd say most of you 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 2: probably know me from Robert and Sophie's podcast Behind the Bastards, 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 2: which you know I've become kind of notorious for the 6 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 2: time that I use a jar jar beank soundboard during 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 2: a series about doctor Mangela. Yeah, I don't have that 8 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 2: soundboard with me today. Sorry. Fewer of you might know 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: me from having the world's only sopranos Slash the Wire 10 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 2: Rewatch podcast pod Yourself a Gun, But the fewest of 11 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 2: you might know me from my brand new podcast, Bad Hasbara, 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 2: the World's most moral podcast, in which me and some 13 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 2: of my other anti Zionist or non Zionist Jewish friends 14 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 2: and our other friends and our other guests guests who 15 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: you know you've maybe heard, like Charene here, we have 16 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 2: casual conversations about Israeli propaganda and Israeli propagandists. For some 17 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 2: of you, this might be your first time hearing the 18 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 2: word has bara, and that's why the homies at cool 19 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 2: Zone Media invited me here today. So this episode is 20 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: all about has barah aka Israel's public relations and propaganda machine, 21 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: and I am thrilled to be joined by my friend 22 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 2: and one time cat sitter, Charine Uness. Hi Scherene, Hi, Matt. 23 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,320 Speaker 3: What an intro? Yeah, I'm excited to learn more about 24 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 3: this actually also excited to know how you properly say 25 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 3: has bara because I don't know to say. 26 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 2: It right ba lah Yeah it's Barra. Yeah, that's I mean, yeah, 27 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: the law you know, with the with the throat has 28 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: ba raw. 29 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 3: You heard it here first. 30 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: Yes, you heard it here first. I'm not I'm not 31 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: the greatest at doing you know, Israeli accents or whatnot. 32 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: So throughout this podcast, I'm probably gonna be butchering a 33 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 2: lot of Hebrew words. Uh and you know, just you're 34 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: just gonna have to deal with it. 35 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's totally fine. That's just part of the game. 36 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 3: I've just pronounced every name I've ever said on this. 37 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: Show, so yeah, yeah, I mean you should hear me 38 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 2: trying to pronounce Arabic names like I can't do it. 39 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 2: I mean I attempt, Yes, that would. If there's any 40 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: that happened in this episode, please but before we get 41 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: into talking about has blah blah, I want to start 42 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 2: with a quick story, Saren, Are you familiar with the 43 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: Birthright Trip? 44 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 3: Yes, i am. 45 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 2: It was one of those things where I was very 46 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 2: excited to one day do the Birthright Trip, and I 47 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 2: didn't really even question. I knew, like, you know, it 48 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: was a little bit, you know, they were trying to 49 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: whine and dine me to go there and you know, 50 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 2: maybe move or what not. But I didn't know how 51 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 2: much they wanted me to move there until I went. 52 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 2: So for me, my Birthright trip is kind of why 53 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 2: I'm here today talking about Hasbara. It's why I started 54 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: a freaking podcast about it. It's when I first started 55 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: clocking Israeli propaganda. So I went in January twenty twelve. 56 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: If you don't know Birthright, it's pretty much a two week, 57 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 2: all expenses paid trip for young Jews from all over 58 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 2: the world to go to the Holy Land, reconnect with 59 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: their Jewish roots, float in the dead seat. It is. 60 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: It is a propaganda tour of apartheid state. And you know, 61 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: I'm not going to get too much into the history 62 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: of Birthright, you know and all the like far right 63 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 2: wing funders like Sheldon Adelson and stuff. There's like not 64 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: enough time for that. But I'm mentioning it because it 65 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 2: was the first time I saw how hasbara was more 66 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: than just propaganda and how in my opinion, it more 67 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: closely resembles like indoctrination, and the organizers at Birthright did 68 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: like a masterful job of this. Like I went on 69 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: a trip of American Jews who were like me, like 70 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: they were like secular from mixed or like intermarried families, 71 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 2: non bar mitzvah. It was all like other matt Leab 72 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 2: type Jews, like ethnic Jews, right, And I realized this. 73 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 2: I think it was like day two of the trip. 74 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: One of the Israeli tour guides literally gave us a 75 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 2: bar mitzvah like all at the same time we had 76 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 2: a group bar mitzvah yeah, And they did it by 77 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 2: saying like, okay, well now bar mitzvod. It just means 78 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: you're a man. Now, everyone here is a man. Now 79 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 2: choose an Israeli name, and which was like for me, 80 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: I remember feeling a little, you know, I was like, wait, 81 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 2: there's supposed to be a theme party and fucking like, 82 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: yah's supposed to yeah, DJ, my dad's gonna buy me 83 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: a car, or at least me a like a Honda 84 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 2: like I thought it was more than that. At the 85 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 2: very least, I thought I would have to like memorize 86 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: a tour a portion, but no, you just go to 87 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 2: Israel and you know a tour Guiy does it for you, 88 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 2: so like it really works though, like you really you 89 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: you go there being like you know, I'm European Jew, 90 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 2: and you leave there and you're like, I invented falafel. 91 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: So the Hasbara highlight of the trip for me was 92 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: this like mega like birthright mega event. It was in 93 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 2: Jerusalem and a huge arena in which they had like 94 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: Israeli speakers, donors, rappers, and there was like a there 95 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: were rappers at one point who just started rapping about 96 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 2: things that they claim Israel invented, like iPhone, computer chips 97 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 2: and like the cherry tomato, which was you know like 98 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 2: and by the way, a not insubstantial amount of the 99 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 2: trip was spent telling us about how Israel invented the 100 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 2: cherry tomato. Like we went to places like you know, 101 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 2: farms and stuff where they showed us this like drip irrigation. 102 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: Multiple people were just like, man, we invented the cherry tomato. 103 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: Here can you believe it? And I was like this 104 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 2: seems like a lot of effort for just this one 105 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 2: particular thing, which may or may not be true. But yeah, 106 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 2: So the headliner of the mega event of that night, 107 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: the cherry tomato on top, if you will, was a 108 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 2: speech by none other than Prime Minister Benjamin Bibi Netanyahu. 109 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: Straight up, the Prime Minister of Israel was the headline 110 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: speaker of this birthright event and an arena filled with 111 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: like twenty thousand teens and like early twenty somethings, which 112 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 2: was kind of like amazing, Like, you know, listen, here's 113 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: the thing I knew. Benjamin netnya who I like, I 114 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 2: knew enough about Israeli politics to know that, like he 115 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 2: was a fucking right winger and bad. But like I 116 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: have to admit, even I, you know, as a twenty 117 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: six year old who kind of was starting to get 118 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: like woke on Palestine, you know, so to speak, like 119 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: even I was like kind of like, whoa this is. 120 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 2: I'm a little charmed, a little honored to see the 121 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: Prime minister here. He took time out of his busy 122 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: schedule of doing crimes, probably to address us. And you know, 123 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: I actually found the speech of that night. I actually 124 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: have some clips from it that I want to play. 125 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 3: That is incredible, that's great. 126 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 2: So yeah, he he was like casual, he was off 127 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: the cuff. They wrote a speech for me. 128 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 4: I'm not going to read it. 129 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 2: Like he even did a little bit of crowd work. 130 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 4: Anyone here named Rachel. 131 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: So that right there is what we in the Jewish 132 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: community call Rachel profiling. That's when you just start in 133 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 2: front of a group of Jews and you ask whose 134 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 2: name to Rachel. Shout out to Rachel Blumenthal for telling 135 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 2: me that joke. In college. It was. It was like 136 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: a crash course in Hesbara. Like he told us we 137 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: were from Israel. 138 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 4: At one point, you all come from great countries, great countries. 139 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 4: Did you all come from here? 140 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 2: All of you? 141 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 4: That's your birthright. 142 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 2: He was telling us that, like you know, once again, 143 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 2: it was everything they invented phone, you know, the cell phone, ships, 144 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: blah blah blah. He was telling us to make aliat 145 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 2: to Israel, which means to you know, move to return, 146 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: to come back. You know. Essentially what he was vying 147 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: for was like move to Israel and start a family. 148 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: It's very like sex based, like the way it works. 149 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 2: The big thing I took away was him telling us 150 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 2: that he wanted us to go back home and tell 151 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 2: people the truth about Israel. 152 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 4: But the most important battle that we have to fight 153 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 4: is the battle for the truth. And all of you 154 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 4: can become ambassadors for the truth and ambassadors for Israel. 155 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: And of course, you know, he then proceeded to tell 156 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 2: us what the truth about Israel was. 157 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 4: Go back your respective countries and tell the truth about Israel. 158 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 4: The only way to fight a live to tell the truth. 159 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 4: Tell him about a country where people are free, free 160 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 4: to initiate, free to work, free to speak, the country 161 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 4: where you can criticize the Prime Minister although he never 162 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 4: makes mistakes. This is a country which has in which 163 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 4: Arabs have full right something they've been denied in all 164 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 4: the vast lands around us. And a woman in this 165 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 4: country can sit anywhere she wants. That's our position. This 166 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 4: is a free country. 167 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 2: So him going up there telling me that what he 168 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: wants from me is to go back home and be 169 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: an ambassador for Israel and tell the truth about Israel. 170 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 2: You know, it was the first time I realized that 171 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 2: he was giving me a job to do. And this 172 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 2: is a job that I think a lot of Jewish 173 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 2: people who may be listening to this podcast can relate 174 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: to the job of telling the truth about Israel and 175 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 2: the job of you know, stopping the slander that is 176 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 2: out there about Israel in the media and on the internet, 177 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: press and all that stuff. And it was the first 178 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 2: time I realized that, like, oh, part of the hasbara 179 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: isn't just you know, some government thing. It's like, my job, 180 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 2: My job is to is to tell the truth. And 181 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 2: he said something in that clip, the only way to 182 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 2: fight allies with the truth. And so I am going 183 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 2: to follow his advice. That's what I'm going to do, Shreen. 184 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 2: I'm going to tell people the truth about Israel. And 185 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 2: I think I think it's time to do it. So 186 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: let's get into it. Let's talk about the truth. Let's 187 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: get into talking about hasbara. What is it? What is it? 188 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 2: And so loosely, hasbara is it's a modern Hebrew word 189 00:11:55,200 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: derived from the word lasbier hasbier meaning to explain or explanation. 190 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 2: I say loosely because it's kind of a made up word. 191 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: So you know, a lot of words in modern Hebrew 192 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: are sort of made up words. Remember, Hebrew is like 193 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 2: an ancient liturgical language, and modern Hebrew was created by 194 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 2: like Jewish linguist nerds who wanted to revive the language 195 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: to be a spoken one, and that's how you got 196 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 2: modern Hebrew, which is fine, there's nothing wrong with the 197 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 2: reviving a dead language. But because of that, a lot 198 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 2: of the words in modern Hebrew are kind of inventions. So, 199 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: according to Mosaic Magazine, has bara is strictly a twentieth centuryism. 200 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 2: You won't find it in Eliezer benu Huda's a monumental 201 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 2: complete Dictionary of Ancient and Modern Hebrew, whose second volume, 202 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 2: in which hasbara appears only as the first word of 203 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 2: hasbarat Panim, was published in nineteen oh two. So it's 204 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 2: not something that you see in kind of like the 205 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 2: original beginnings of, you know, the creation of modern Hebrew. 206 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 2: Like colloquially, his bara like refers to like media pr branding, 207 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 2: mud slinging. It's kind of a like a sort of 208 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: like catch all term for general propaganda used to create 209 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 2: a narrative based on Israeli government talking points meant for 210 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 2: a foreign, usually American or just generally Western audience. People 211 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 2: who deal in hasbara are called has barists or has baristas, 212 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 2: which is fun. 213 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 3: That's that's true. 214 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean listen, has Barista, I think gives 215 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 2: a gives it a little bit more flair, you know, 216 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 2: kind of imagine someone kind of like making you coffee, 217 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,839 Speaker 2: but instead of coffee, it's they make you lies. 218 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 3: So nope, I'm not gonna do that. 219 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 2: Sorry, I like it. I wish I never was born. Well, 220 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: so there's all sorts of like has bars like. Some 221 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 2: of them have like a official positions within the Israeli government, 222 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: such as the head of the IDF Spokesperson's unit, Daniel Hagari, 223 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 2: who you might remember is the guy from that video 224 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 2: taken at the you know, the children's hospital, you know, 225 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: in Gaza, and he's like pointing at what he thought 226 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: was a list of his Israeli hostages, but was like 227 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 2: literally just a calendar, didn't have any names. It was 228 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 2: just he was pointing at days of the week thinking 229 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 2: they were names because that's what a calendar has. And 230 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: also it's so fucking weird that they can't read Arabic, like, yeah, 231 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 2: you're in the Middle East, you are the spokesperson. 232 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 3: I think something interesting about how Hebrew was revived as 233 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 3: well is that a lot of words were taken from Arabic, 234 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 3: a lot of words are very similar to Arabic, so 235 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 3: it's like even more funny that they were they can't 236 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 3: even read the language that they kind of took a 237 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 3: lot of words from. 238 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: But I'm saying that, like yeah, in Israel, it's almost 239 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: like the appropriation was just part of the process of 240 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 2: the cleansing, you know, just like stealing something, saying it's 241 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 2: ours and then not even being able to identify an 242 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 2: Arabic word that you yourself say. So, yeah, so there's him. 243 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 2: Then there's like everyone if you've been on Twitter, you've 244 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 2: seen a lot of Alon Levy who he's His official 245 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 2: title is the official Israeli government spokesperson, and that's through 246 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 2: the basically the office of the Prime Minister. He's a 247 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 2: British guy. Like he raises his eyebrows. It's like the meme, 248 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 2: you know, like he goes like, oh, that's what he's 249 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 2: famous for. Then there's a lot of these like non 250 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: governmental like Israeli Civil Society haspara organizations like Stand with 251 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 2: Us or like a PAK, the Washington Institute for Near 252 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 2: East Policy, the Anti Defamation League, Christians United for Israel, 253 00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 2: the Israel on Campus Coalition. I mean, they're of them 254 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: tons of them. And then of course there's people who 255 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 2: are just in it for the love of the game, 256 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: like celebrities, artists, you know, actors, you know, who make 257 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 2: like Israel public advocacy part of their thing. It's a 258 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 2: fascinating world filled with ghouls and goblins. So the word 259 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 2: his bara itself interestingly is hesbara. So early Zionists had 260 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: no problem calling their pr campaigns and like their branding 261 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 2: for a Jewish state and Palestine, propaganda. They would say 262 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 2: it's we got to do propaganda, because in the early 263 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 2: twentieth twentieth century, the term was generally considered to be neutral, 264 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 2: like people said they were doing propaganda when they were 265 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: doing propaganda. Once the word became a pejorative, they created 266 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 2: the word has bara, which is a nicer sounding word 267 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: with more neutral connotations. And although it's now used as 268 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: a pejorative by critics of Israel and me and stuff, 269 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: the word is still used to this day in Israel. 270 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 2: It is still a fairly neutral word. There are has 271 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 2: Borrow workshops sponsored by Israel. They have has Barrow Fellowships. 272 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 2: That's the name of the fellowship. Like you can get 273 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 2: merch that says has Barrow Fellowship on it. And the 274 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 2: reason is because it doesn't translate. The word isn't translate 275 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 2: to propaganda. It just means to explain, which is, you know, 276 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 2: seems innocent enough. It's not about doing propaganda. It's not 277 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 2: about They don't call themselves liars. They're not saying I'm 278 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 2: going to lie. They say they're merely just explaining. And 279 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 2: I found this speech from the Middle East Policy Council 280 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 2: that goes into depth about what has Barro is beyond. 281 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 2: Just like propaganda. Quote has Barrow links information warfare to 282 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 2: the strategic efforts of the state to bolster the unity 283 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: of the home front, ensure the support of allies, disrupt 284 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 2: efforts to organize hostile coalitions, determine the way issues are 285 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 2: defined by the media, the intelligentsia, the social networks, established 286 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 2: parameters of politically correct discourse, de legitimize both critics and 287 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 2: their arguments, and shape the common understanding and interpretation of 288 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 2: the results of international negotiations. So behind this term is 289 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 2: a large, well funded information warfare apparatus dedicated to shaping 290 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 2: you know, Israeli discourse in the media and the government 291 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 2: and academic institutions everywhere. And they use all of the 292 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 2: tools in their toolbox to silence criticism of Israel, and 293 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 2: what they can't silence, they soften. Sometimes it's through coordinated 294 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 2: letter writing campaigns. Sometimes it's harassment. Sometimes it's doxing. You know, 295 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 2: people have been doxed. So before I continue, I want 296 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 2: to address that uncomfortable feeling you had when I talked 297 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 2: about like Israel and the media. I want to say 298 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 2: that is that is not to say that Israel or 299 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 2: the Israel lobby or Zionists quote control the media, all right, 300 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 2: So they do not. That's why Hasbara exists, you know, 301 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 2: That's why the Israel Lobby exists. If they controlled the media, 302 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 2: they wouldn't have groups like Camera, for example, constantly day 303 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,479 Speaker 2: in and day out, harassing the New York Times and 304 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 2: CNN and PBS to get them to talk about Israel correctly. Okay, 305 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 2: So it's important when people hear these criticisms of Israel 306 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: that they don't try to see them as like otherizing 307 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,959 Speaker 2: Israel or like you know, a lot of people they 308 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 2: get uncomfortable because a lot of these things will match 309 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 2: old anti Semitic tropes. But it's important to remember that 310 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 2: these lobbying groups exist in Israel. They exist in the 311 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: gun lobby, in the big oil lobby. This is not 312 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,959 Speaker 2: unique to Israel. The unique thing about it is how 313 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 2: willing the America in public is and the West in 314 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: general is to letting themselves be lied to. That's why 315 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: I'm interested in it. But let's talk about Camera real quick, 316 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 2: because this is a recent thing that happened. Some news 317 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 2: happened recently about the New York Times and their connection 318 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 2: to CAMERA. This is from a recent article in The Intercept. 319 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 2: The Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting and Analysis, 320 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 2: or CAMERA, was founded in nineteen eighty two in response 321 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 2: to what it claims was anti Israel bias in the 322 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 2: Washington Post reporting on the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. Since 323 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 2: its inception, CAMERA has successfully lobbied for hundreds of corrections 324 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 2: in major media outlets, seeking to streamline a pro Israel 325 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 2: line in news reports and editorials at a smere journalists 326 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 2: whose work it disagrees with, and launched boycott campaigns against 327 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 2: news organizations it believes are not responding with enough deference 328 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 2: to its requests. So the way this group operates is 329 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 2: that they go through any and every article about Israel 330 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 2: looking for sentences, looking for terms, definitions, anything they disagree 331 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 2: with and lobby for corrections to be issued. Camera doesn't 332 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 2: do this quietly. They openly brag about it on their website. 333 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 2: Like recently, Camera successfully lobby The New York Times to 334 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 2: issue a correction removing the word occupation from an article, 335 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 2: and they wrote this on their website. Quote the mask 336 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: slipped for the New York Times reporters kum Hamas stenographers 337 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 2: this week when they absolutely neglected to done down Hamas's 338 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,959 Speaker 2: preferred language before passing off the terror organization's talking points 339 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 2: as original reporting. Take notice of the framing of The 340 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 2: New York Times and their mask slipping and their reporters 341 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 2: as being stenographers for Hamas. This is like quite the 342 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 2: accusation given the The New York Times is like has 343 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 2: and continues to have coverage described as biased in favor 344 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 2: of Israel Like. According to an Intercept analysis, it was 345 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 2: found that in the first six weeks of the war, 346 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 2: New York Times consistently delegitimized Palestinian deaths and cultivated a 347 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 2: gross imbalance in coverage to pro Israeli sources and voices. 348 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 2: So the exact opposite of what Camera is claiming is 349 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 2: the truth here. You know, this is. This is actually 350 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 2: a famous has Bara tactic. It is the I am rubber, 351 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 2: you are glue tactic, and it's really something to see 352 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 2: it in action, Like I don't know seen if you've 353 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 2: seen how often you've like read some pro Israeli voices, 354 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 2: you know has Baris online and heard them say stuff 355 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 2: that you're like, I know for a fact, the exact 356 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 2: opposite of this thing is true. You know what I mean? 357 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, every every accusation is a confession. It feels like 358 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 3: that is true all the time when it comes to 359 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 3: the stuff. And also the intercept article is very good. 360 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 3: I'll put it in the description for those woe to 361 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 3: read the whole thing. I'm glad you mentioned that because 362 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 3: I didn't know that much about camera until I read 363 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,479 Speaker 3: that article, and I was just like, what, like I 364 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 3: knew that that was a thing that that was done. 365 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 3: Like they would change words recently. The New York Times 366 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 3: was like a decline of death or life, like they 367 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 3: use the word decline to describe. 368 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 2: To describe what was happening in Gaza. They decided the 369 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 2: articles headline was going to be like death's actually declining 370 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 2: in the. 371 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 3: Gaza exactly, and like the standard ones are always there, 372 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 3: like blast or conflict or whatever it is. Those are 373 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 3: unfortunately so normal now, But to see it all laid 374 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 3: out by the intercept was really I'm really glad I 375 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 3: did that article so it will be in the description, 376 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 3: and I'm glad you mentioned it. But it does go 377 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 3: back to the idea that every accusation is a confession. 378 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 3: I think that's something to remember every time you see 379 00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 3: a headline. 380 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 2: It's true, and it's something that you know. It's almost 381 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 2: become a cliche online because you've sa I've seen it 382 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 2: so many times people saying that, and I think it's 383 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 2: important to remember that this is sort of the tactic 384 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 2: of hesbara. Like what makes hesbara particularly notable and like 385 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 2: often hilarious is that it doesn't merely just spin narratives, 386 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 2: but it inverts them to essentially make like an alternate reality. 387 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 2: It's not just that hesbara is information warfare. Hesbara is 388 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: straight up info wars like Alex Jones level shit. The 389 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 2: same way Alex Jones will run the same like fantastical 390 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,239 Speaker 2: paranoid thread to every major news event that happens in 391 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 2: order to reinforce his worldview and prove that he's right 392 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 2: and everyone else is wrong, you know, like that's Israel 393 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: does this, but with like far more money and far 394 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 2: greater success, and it kind of makes sense why they're 395 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,719 Speaker 2: successful at it. Like Alex Jones info wars shit like 396 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 2: praise on white Christian paranoia that like the Blacks are 397 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 2: trying to take away our guns so they can make 398 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 2: our children trans or whatever, like total fantasy in saying 399 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 2: shit that you have to be like already far right 400 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 2: wing to believe. Well, like Israeli info wars praise on 401 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 2: a much more grounded in reality paranoia that of anti Semitism, 402 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 2: Like anti Semitism is real, it's historical, it's evil, it's pervasive, 403 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 2: it's pernicious. Like this kind of paranoia makes sense, and 404 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 2: not just for Jews, but like for anyone of conscience, 405 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 2: anyone who has empathy, you know, like that they understand 406 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 2: anti Semitism is bad and needs to be fought. And 407 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 2: that makes Hasbara very effective. You know, people want to 408 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 2: support Israel because people want to support the Jewish people 409 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 2: and they want to fight anti Semitism. And when the 410 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: IDF mantles a children's hospital and says we had to 411 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 2: do it to stop Hamas. Look, here's a list of hostages. 412 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 2: People want to believe them. It's like Molder from the 413 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 2: X Files, like I want to believe, which is the 414 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 2: same impulse as Alex Jones believers. Essentially, like you don't 415 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 2: want Sandy Hook to be a possibility. You want it 416 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 2: to be a conspiracy to take your guns away. You 417 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 2: want those children to be secretly actors pretending to be dead. 418 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 2: So like when Israel says we aren't killing children, we're 419 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 2: killing hamas, people want to believe that. 420 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 3: And yeah, let's just say hate that you compared Fox 421 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 3: Mulder to the like you dragged him into this and 422 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 3: I'll get over it. 423 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 2: But I'm sorry to you know, to bring him into 424 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 2: this conversation. But you know, I'm just saying, Molder, if 425 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 2: he wants to believe that stuff, what else does he 426 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 2: want to believe? You just hope, you really hope and 427 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: pray that he's not going to fall for the hesbara, 428 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 2: but he might know you really don't. And it's like, 429 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 2: you know it's hiszbar is effective because it gives you 430 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 2: something like a nice, legitimate sounding explanation for why Israel 431 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,919 Speaker 2: needed to do something that you might usually think is bad. 432 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 2: Like that's how it's worked for decades in the same 433 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 2: way that Hasbara serves to explain things for you. To 434 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 2: basically take the Israeli government at its word. That's kind 435 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 2: of how it works. It gives you a believable explanation 436 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 2: and not only sounds like kind of real, but it 437 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 2: you know, conforms to your personal beliefs. And yeah, but 438 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,160 Speaker 2: speaking of personal beliefs, if there's one thing, oh, let's 439 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 2: see if I can do this. If there's one thing 440 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 2: I'd love to believe in, it's commerce. And so yes, 441 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 2: I mean listen, people will have to make money somehow. 442 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 2: So it looks like we have some products and services 443 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 2: that we have to sell. And yeah, when they sell 444 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 2: you these these products and services, please believe them when 445 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: they say how good they are. And we are back. 446 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 2: So we were talking about hespara and how you know, 447 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 2: the explanations conformed to your personal beliefs. The interesting thing 448 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 2: about hasbara is that they have different types of hespara 449 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 2: for a wide range of personal beliefs. It's not one 450 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 2: size fits all. It depends on who you are. There's 451 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 2: a conservative version and there's a liberal version. Like Israel. 452 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 2: Israel has been very successful and their ability to brand 453 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 2: themselves is both a liberal democracy and a outpost for 454 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 2: Western values fighting the Muslim hoards. Usually, these strategies have 455 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 2: been like pretty separated, right, you know, like you can't 456 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 2: claim you can't do them at the same time, it'll 457 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 2: sound weird. It's like Israel is the only gay friendly, 458 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 2: climate conscious, feminist democracy and that's why we got to 459 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 2: do genocide. Like that doesn't that doesn't sound right. Like 460 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 2: you tell the city dwelling liberal elites about the gay stuff, 461 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 2: you tell the conservative Christians about the Western civilization stuff. 462 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 2: That's kind of how it works. The basic conservative hasbara 463 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 2: doesn't actually interest me all that much because it's I 464 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: don't know, they don't have to work that hard at 465 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 2: getting conservatives to be okay with killing Muslims. 466 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 4: You know. 467 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 2: It's like Muslims Arabs, you know, they're fully willing to 468 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,719 Speaker 2: You don't even have to like couch it in something. 469 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 3: No, that's just what happens to us. 470 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 2: It's fine, right, And it's interesting too, because like this 471 00:29:54,040 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 2: idea of you know, being a Western outpost, an outpost 472 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 2: for Western values is not like that is very much 473 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 2: falling into the almost the the whiteness thing of Europeans, 474 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 2: where you kind of like because Jews, like European anti 475 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 2: semitism wasn't about how Jews had Western values. It was 476 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 2: about how Jews represented this other this this thing that 477 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: you know, they don't they didn't share values. There were 478 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 2: some weird other thing. And you know, this was not 479 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 2: the the charge of anti Semitism in Europe. And now 480 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 2: with like Israeli propaganda towards you know that's aimed towards 481 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 2: conservative Westerners, they're like, no, no, we're the most Western, 482 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 2: like we're so Western that we're going to be the 483 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 2: ones who are on the front lines stopping the evil, 484 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 2: you know, Arab ports. And yeah, but it's like the 485 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 2: that's interesting, you know in some aspects, but it's the 486 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 2: liberal stuff. Sure, liberal hasbara is where the lies get 487 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 2: so wild. Like that's the stuff that I grew up with, 488 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 2: you know. 489 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it really you the pink washing in particular 490 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 3: is like one, yes, it's just they're they're so egregious 491 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 3: in their use of using like the gay struggle for 492 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,719 Speaker 3: their own agenda. It's really really gross. 493 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's and it's weird at how effective it 494 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 2: is or how effective it has been for so long, 495 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 2: because it is something that I think it's kind of 496 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 2: like the the first stop on the Hasbara tour. You know, 497 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 2: when you are hearing someone kind of like talking about 498 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 2: why we need to stand with Israel, they will start 499 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:44,479 Speaker 2: right there with the you know, the pro gay rights stuff. 500 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 2: And it's like, the reason I find it interesting is 501 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 2: like Israel's so effectively been able to like brand itself 502 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 2: is representing and supporting all these positive liberal traits. Well, 503 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,719 Speaker 2: well a lot of it is just not true. Like, 504 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 2: for example, liberals are pro LGBT rights, right, you know, 505 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 2: they love gays, they love gay rights, and that's a 506 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 2: good thing, of course, and yet gay marriage is illegal 507 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 2: in Israel. It is illegal. It's also mixed faith marriages 508 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 2: are also illegal in Israel. They will recognize those marriages, 509 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 2: but they will not perform them. You cannot get gay married. 510 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 2: You cannot get Inner faith married in Israel. If you're 511 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 2: there performed abroad, then they will recognize them. That's kind 512 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 2: of the loophole. Also, by the way, Palestinians from the 513 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 2: West Bank or Gaza who mary an Israeli citizen cannot 514 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 2: then get Israeli citizenship through that marriage. You also can't 515 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 2: get Israeli citizenship if you marry in Israeli and you 516 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 2: are from a quote enemy state that read Arab. If 517 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 2: you want to know what they states are, they mean Arabs. 518 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 2: So you know, I don't know, liberals should hate that. 519 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 2: They should look at and be like, well, I don't 520 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 2: like that, you'd think, right. Another example, like liberals love 521 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 2: democracy and they hate racism, yet believe Israel when they 522 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 2: say they are a democracy because they'll be like, we 523 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 2: have you know, twenty percent Arab Muslim population, you know, 524 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 2: two million and all with the right to vote. Meanwhile, 525 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 2: they're like ignoring the five point three million Palestinians who 526 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 2: are currently living in the West Bank and Gaza under 527 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 2: military control by Israel. Like this is a situation was 528 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 2: which has explicitly been called apartheid by most major human 529 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 2: rights organizations, you know, human Rights Watch and it's the International, 530 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 2: the International Federation for Human Rights and even including human 531 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 2: rights orgs in Israel. Yes, Din and but sell them. 532 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 2: They have all called this on apartheid state and apartheid 533 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 2: to you know, to be clear, is racist And I'm 534 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 2: again yes, and I think most liberals would say they're 535 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 2: against it. Don't you think, Serene, like it help something 536 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 2: you would hope. So that's kind of like part of 537 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 2: the thing with the liberal You're like, I don't like 538 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:18,959 Speaker 2: bad people, right, yeah, yeah, but you know it's once again, 539 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,439 Speaker 2: it's this thing where we're willing to be like, oh, 540 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 2: they say they're a democracy, and therefore I believe it, 541 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 2: and I think it's you know, you have to remember 542 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 2: that like Israel's got like a caveat for all this stuff. 543 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 2: It's it's usually they'll say, you know, their credentials are 544 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 2: touted with this like in the Middle East, the most 545 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 2: gay friendly in the Middle East. They're the only democracy 546 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 2: in the Middle East. But like, once again, that kind 547 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 2: of only serves to implicitly condemn those enemy states, you know, 548 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 2: filled with Arabs as being racist and backwards and homophobic 549 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 2: and anti democratic and therefore unworthy of liberal sympathies. So 550 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 2: it's you know, your liberals will look at it and 551 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 2: they'll go like, well, I mean compared to Iraq, and 552 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 2: you know that they yeah, of course, it's like forgetting 553 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 2: why why the Middle East is the way the Middle 554 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 2: East is? You know, they they will there's a complete 555 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 2: like vacuum, like everything exists in a vacuum. When it 556 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 2: comes to American imperialism, so you don't, but you just 557 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 2: want to believe that Arabs are backwards people rather than 558 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 2: looking at any kind of like Western imperial imperial complicity. 559 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 3: But also like reinforcing this like racist backwards stereotype also 560 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 3: like dehumanizes Arabs and Muslims and Palestinians to such a 561 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 3: degree where people can't overlook genocide. Now you know, like 562 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 3: it's all part of that, ac it's all part of that. Yes, 563 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 3: they're different, they're not like us. They don't like gay people, 564 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 3: they don't women stand up or whatever the fuck it is. 565 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 3: It's just like it's it really is infuriating because you wonder, 566 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 3: like how can this happen? It's because of stuff like 567 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 3: this that's not very little when it's all together, and 568 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,760 Speaker 3: it just reinforces this like barbaric trope. And then people 569 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 3: just go on their go about their lives being okay 570 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 3: with genocide because to them these people are human anymore. 571 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 2: Right on, you look at this like as part of 572 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 2: a pattern of like the delegitimization of the Arab being. 573 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,879 Speaker 2: In a way, it's like all of this is a 574 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 2: pattern of like what are things we can say about 575 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,919 Speaker 2: Arabs in order to make them so far from us 576 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 2: that you just don't care if they live or die, 577 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 2: or more so you you more, you're more willing to 578 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 2: believe that the people who are like us, the Israelis, 579 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 2: are the ones telling the truth that they're you know, 580 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 2: they're the ones who have the empathy. They're the ones 581 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 2: who you know, let women, you know, sit wherever they want, 582 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 2: whatever the fuck that meant from BB's speech, But like, 583 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 2: you know, they're more like me Arabs. I don't know them, 584 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 2: and I guess, you know, if they say they're bad, 585 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 2: they're bad. You know, it's just part of it. And 586 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,479 Speaker 2: I think what pisses me off about it is the 587 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 2: liberal willingness to believe it. And I think it's like, 588 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 2: I don't know, it's fascinating to me because especially right now, 589 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 2: in the last you know, four months or so, of 590 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:40,399 Speaker 2: this brutal incursion into Gaza, it's like so clearly illustrates 591 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 2: why people on the left fucking hate liberals. You know, 592 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 2: they're just so easy to manipulate if you know the 593 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 2: right words, you know, like if it were any other group, 594 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 2: if it were any other group instead of Jewish nations nationalists, 595 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 2: like if it were Christian nationalists, they'd be like clearly 596 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 2: condemning it. Clearly like liberals have such a facile identity 597 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 2: and race essentialism that they either excuse the crimes committed 598 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 2: by the Jewish state because Israel asked them to do 599 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 2: it and they want to be like good allies or whatever, 600 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,240 Speaker 2: or they ignore them because well, it's not my place 601 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 2: to say, I'm not Jewish. I feel like I should like, like, 602 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 2: they're just so squishy. It kind of reveals the modern 603 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 2: American liberal for what they are, which is like a 604 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 2: tiny baby whose self perception is at the root of 605 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 2: their ideology. Right, And it's just it's important to remember 606 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 2: that Europeans doing atrocities to indigenous populations has always come 607 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 2: with the gift wrapping of these savages don't share our values. 608 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 2: It's always been like that. So when you see an 609 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 2: Israeli soldier flying a Pride flag in the rubble of 610 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 2: a raised Palestinian city, like, just remember that's not liberation, 611 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:10,359 Speaker 2: that is regular ass by the book colonialism, same shit, 612 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 2: you know what I mean? 613 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, I still am loving the description 614 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 3: of an American liberal as a tiny baby. 615 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 2: They are little babies. There's little tiny babies. You got 616 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 2: they've got, they can only hold like one sort of 617 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 2: political critique in their mind at once, and you know, 618 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 2: if they choose this kind of like identity essentialism, then 619 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 2: it's so much easier to just kind of go like, hey, 620 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 2: you know, I don't really think it's my place to 621 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:43,240 Speaker 2: talk about this right. 622 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 3: Now, exactly. It's just it's cowardly and like in retrospect, 623 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 3: they're probably going to change their story about what their 624 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 3: stance was, like you know what I mean, And it's just, yes, 625 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 3: it's really infuriating, and I think it is important to 626 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 3: remember that what you're watching Israel do and what it 627 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 3: has done for the past seventy five years, over seventy 628 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 3: five years, is just colonialism and it was described that 629 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 3: way since the beginning. But that was that was really 630 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 3: Thank you for explaining all of that, Matt. 631 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know there will be more in part two. 632 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 2: We'll get down to some of these myths. We'll get 633 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 2: down to the way in which has Bar kind of 634 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 2: works to invert narratives to a degree that you know, 635 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 2: are almost so shocking that you have trouble believing the 636 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 2: historical truth and are more comfortable believing the ahistorical fiction. 637 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,720 Speaker 2: But Surene, what do we do now? Plugs? Or yeah? 638 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 2: What do I say? Commercial break? 639 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 3: That's that's the end of part one. You did a 640 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 3: great job. 641 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 2: Thank you. That's listen. I've never guess hosted a thing 642 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 2: here on cool Zone Media, but I'm very happy too. 643 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 2: And if you like you know me obviously you know 644 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 2: listen about his Bar the World's Most Moral podcast. If 645 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 2: you like me and my wife, We're going to be 646 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 2: at the Sacramento Punchline March seventeenth at seven pm. That's 647 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 2: a Sunday. We're headlining together. I mean, you know, co headlining, 648 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 2: so I'll go up showcoa. But it's really good. It's 649 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,759 Speaker 2: a really good show. We did it in San Francisco. 650 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,720 Speaker 2: Is so much fun. Please come out to it March seventeenth. 651 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 2: That's Sunday, March seventeenth, Sacramento Punchline. Come see Matt Leib 652 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 2: Francisca if hearing. 653 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 3: Where can people follow you? Just in case you don't know? 654 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 2: They should If you don't know, at Matt Leib on Twitter, 655 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 2: at mattleib jokes on Instagram, and yeah check me out. 656 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 2: I'll post all the dates and stuff over there, and 657 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 2: all the podcasts over there too. 658 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 3: Awesome. 659 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:46,839 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, great job. Okay, goodbye bye. 660 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 661 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,240 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 662 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the 663 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 664 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 665 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.