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Speaker 1: know stories of things we simply don't know the answer too.
Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast.
Speaker 1: I Am Devin joined per USU by Joe and Steve.
Speaker 1: What's up another grooving mystery? Yeah, this week we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about the disappearance of Rebecca Korium. This was
Speaker 1: originally suggested by Grace via email in like April two
Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen, a while ago, which seems weird because
Speaker 1: that does literally seem like that was a few months
Speaker 1: ago to me, but like the middle of the summer.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm not really ready for that idea yet. Um,
Speaker 1: but this is a mystery that I've known about for
Speaker 1: a while and has been on my radar for a while.
Speaker 1: It's just this side of five years old. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna do it perfect. I'm just gonna do a quick
Speaker 1: little summary. Rebecca was four years old when she disappeared
Speaker 1: from a cruise ship. Yes, we're doing cruise ship mystery. No,
Speaker 1: it's not the one you want or that other. There
Speaker 1: are lots of them, but we'll talk about that in
Speaker 1: a minute. And you know, I think this is on
Speaker 1: that drinking game that people keep talking about. But you
Speaker 1: may or may not know that I worked on a
Speaker 1: cruise ship for a while. And actually, um, the reason
Speaker 1: that I know about this case is I've known about
Speaker 1: it pretty much since it happened because the first ship
Speaker 1: that Rebecca worked on ported in this same ports as
Speaker 1: my ship did twice a week. I believe it was
Speaker 1: three times a week, twice a week, and then my
Speaker 1: last day on a cruise ship was literally like three
Speaker 1: days after she disappeared. Okay, so what doing story? Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do the story. Yeah, because there's a whole bunch here.
Speaker 1: There's there's quite a lot of story, a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff here. Yeah, it seems kind of a simpler mystery
Speaker 1: when you first sent it over, So I was really
Speaker 1: surprised at how much content there was. Yeah, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: there's like why people are exciting about it, Yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: kind of it's a little mysterious. Rebecca was attending Plymouth
Speaker 1: University studying Sports Science and Youth studies. When she was
Speaker 1: a teen, she was a British Army cadet and she
Speaker 1: taught UM sports at Camp America in Maine. Rebecca was
Speaker 1: from Chester, England. In two thousand ten, Rebecca interviewed for
Speaker 1: Disney Cruise Lines and was offered a job which is
Speaker 1: actually pretty competitive, unlike the ship I was on. She
Speaker 1: got to go to Disneyland in Florida for training, which
Speaker 1: I'm super jealous about. Disney World, right, Disney World, Yeah,
Speaker 1: in Florida. I want to go to the one in China.
Speaker 1: It just opened. Actually a friend who opened that one
Speaker 1: really yeah, really interested in she's the lead of the
Speaker 1: pyrotechnics department there. It's really cool because if it euro
Speaker 1: Disney and it's a trip to be in Disneyland in
Speaker 1: another language, and I sort of maybe kind of know
Speaker 1: some of what's going on, but I'd really like to
Speaker 1: see it in the one that's in China. Was Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want China. I want to go see that replica
Speaker 1: of the Titanic that guy's building. Yeah, it's gonna be awesome,
Speaker 1: Yes it is. I want to see the miniature reproduction
Speaker 1: of the Great Wall of Okay, so Rebecca was placed
Speaker 1: on the Disney Dream. I'm pretty sure that's the one. Uh,
Speaker 1: it never really says, but that was the one that
Speaker 1: I was with, and it's the contract that it looked
Speaker 1: like she was on. So and for the record, I
Speaker 1: keep saying this, I never met Rebecca or anything like that,
Speaker 1: so I don't worry m but I know people who
Speaker 1: worked with her. So, so she was on a four
Speaker 1: month contract. She did a two month vacation in between contracts,
Speaker 1: which is pretty typical, and then she did her next
Speaker 1: contract on the Disney Wonder, which ports out of l A.
Speaker 1: And I think her first cruise was actually relocate cruise
Speaker 1: because when they talk about her time on that cruise ship,
Speaker 1: they talk about going through the Panama Panama Canal, and
Speaker 1: a relocate for those who are unfamiliar, is outwardly facing
Speaker 1: called the repositioning, which basically a lot of cruise ships
Speaker 1: do winter kind of bad months in the Bahamas and
Speaker 1: Eastern Caribbean and then they come over and do the
Speaker 1: West Coast Caribbean and yeah of the United States and
Speaker 1: the Alaska cruises during the summer, so they have to reposition.
Speaker 1: Basically they go, you know, through the Panama Now and up,
Speaker 1: and it's usually a fourteen day trip, and um, guests
Speaker 1: can go on those trips, but also you know, obviously
Speaker 1: the crew has to be on board at the same time. Probably, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they do. Although I you know, I was really jealous.
Speaker 1: I saw when the Wonder was going over for the
Speaker 1: first time. It was a brand new ship and they
Speaker 1: did their Atlantic crossing without any passengers because it was
Speaker 1: brand new ship, but they had crew. And then they
Speaker 1: also did their first run of their three day loop
Speaker 1: without any passengers, and so you would look over and
Speaker 1: it was just crew members. Like we had these big
Speaker 1: laundry buckets that you would, you know, dump all the
Speaker 1: laundry into, and they were just like running down the
Speaker 1: promenade like racing each other like it was, and they
Speaker 1: got to just they had the fore run of the ship,
Speaker 1: and you know, these ships are big, they're made for
Speaker 1: a lot of people, and it was just the crew. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because really awesome. I was so jeal because normally, as
Speaker 1: a crew member, you can't go into all the fun
Speaker 1: party areas where the guests are some you we'll talk
Speaker 1: a little bit more about the culture of cruise ships
Speaker 1: in a minute, but you some people can like I could, um,
Speaker 1: but not very many people. You did mention something that
Speaker 1: I want listeners to understand, which is the sheer scale
Speaker 1: of these ships. Oh yeah, I pulled up the maps
Speaker 1: they are and these were they these were the small ships. Well,
Speaker 1: these were the maps that were the ones that are
Speaker 1: available on the internet from Disney that show you know,
Speaker 1: so you can pick your room, what what deck you
Speaker 1: want to be on, and it's still so much space,
Speaker 1: let alone all the areas that passengers don't get to
Speaker 1: go to. Those I actually looked at those maps. They're
Speaker 1: pretty representative. It's just like three decks below that they have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those ships are so gigantic that I expect it's to
Speaker 1: be another five or six decks down there. Well, you
Speaker 1: can't go too far down because you get into the mechanics.
Speaker 1: That's what. Well, that's what i'm including when oh you
Speaker 1: are then, yeah, I guess I don't I don't actually
Speaker 1: know the actual scope of I don't want um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: they're pretty representative of what But they're giants. When you
Speaker 1: look at these rooms and there the average cab and
Speaker 1: I think it was on this Disney ship was two
Speaker 1: square foot. Yeah, that's a big to me. That's the
Speaker 1: big round on a ship that is actually quite a
Speaker 1: bit room. But did you look at the map. There
Speaker 1: are thousand and two thousand square foot suites that are
Speaker 1: just I couldn't imagine those things. But of course they're
Speaker 1: way high up, but it's just it's a huge ship.
Speaker 1: Tons and tons of room, tons and tons of always
Speaker 1: get lost on those things. Member crew members that probably
Speaker 1: have like thirty six square feet, you know, they're little
Speaker 1: in their little cell closet. It's yeah, it's less than that.
Speaker 1: The Yeah, so there are rooms uh that are I
Speaker 1: would say, yeah, probably about thirty six square feet, but
Speaker 1: you share that with like three or four people because
Speaker 1: it's bunk. It's bunk. It's four bunks up. It's it's
Speaker 1: four bunks tall. So you've got the four bunks and
Speaker 1: then there's a little there's a tiny little wardrobe for
Speaker 1: each person that's built into the wall. And then there's
Speaker 1: two desks, spaces, and um four safe and that's it.
Speaker 1: Oh and a bathroom. Well actually in those ones, I
Speaker 1: don't think they had the room that I was in.
Speaker 1: I had a bathroom in mind, but I mean it's
Speaker 1: the kind of bathroom where the whole thing is the shower.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a drain in the middle of the floor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like that. I think I let us astray there.
Speaker 1: Sorry about that. It's okay. I mean, it's all stuff
Speaker 1: that we will end up talking about. Almost true. Rebecca
Speaker 1: was a youth worker. I think Disney actually calls them
Speaker 1: youth activities counselors, which seems like still an oddly normal
Speaker 1: name for Disney. You know, this is the kind of
Speaker 1: place where Disneyland. I think everybody's called a cast member.
Speaker 1: All cast members use activities. Counselors are basically there to
Speaker 1: keep their babysitters, keep the kids busy. Drink, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: go drink. Yeah, I know that sounds really awful, but
Speaker 1: it's true. If you've ever been on a cruise ship,
Speaker 1: you know that's what you do, is you go drink.
Speaker 1: I went on a cruise and it was no kids allowed,
Speaker 1: and it was the greatest thing ever at first, until
Speaker 1: I realized how drunk all the people around me were. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: are they all inclusive affairs? I mean, do you get
Speaker 1: all your your food and booze? Well, okay, so I
Speaker 1: don't know how DCL works. I'm sorry. Disney Cruise Lines
Speaker 1: I'm going to call it dc L. But the line
Speaker 1: that I was on, which I will not name, is
Speaker 1: the kind of thing where there are certain restaurants and
Speaker 1: buffets on the ship that are included, and then there
Speaker 1: are others that you pay on top of your feet.
Speaker 1: And I don't think any of the bars, except for
Speaker 1: of course the casino bar, were a complementary. But there
Speaker 1: were a lot of events where you could get complementary alcohol,
Speaker 1: Like when you boarded the ship that I was on,
Speaker 1: they handed you a hurricane. A lot of the ships
Speaker 1: charge you for the booze because that's where they're making
Speaker 1: some serious I have I have family that would go
Speaker 1: on at least two cruises a year, and they were
Speaker 1: always packing their cocktail mix in their luggage. And you
Speaker 1: have to pack it in uh you know, like mouthwasher
Speaker 1: some thing like that Bill coffin skate. You're not allowed
Speaker 1: to bring liquor on. Do they actually look at your luggage?
Speaker 1: Yeah they do. Yeah, it's rather cheeky. Why it goes.
Speaker 1: It has to go through a scanner and everything. Are
Speaker 1: you kidding me? Do you imagine? Can you imagine a
Speaker 1: bomb on a boat? I guess that's true. I'm just
Speaker 1: saying this, like, boats are scary enough as is, So
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about Rebecca again. That's a
Speaker 1: good idea. Rebecca was described as generally a happy person,
Speaker 1: a kind of a prankster, all around upbeat. You have
Speaker 1: to Disney. Well, it's interesting. There's an article we're going
Speaker 1: to reference a lot, which is the Guardian article. And
Speaker 1: the author of that went on a on a Wonder
Speaker 1: cruise and he was talking to somebody who one of
Speaker 1: the guys who was re varnishing railing and he said,
Speaker 1: you know, okay, so what's it like actually though, you know,
Speaker 1: what are you guys like actually? And he was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's not an act. Would you kind of have to say?
Speaker 1: But I think that the people who get hired for
Speaker 1: Disney versus other cruise lines are Disney people. There generally,
Speaker 1: there's a certain there's a certain brand of people who
Speaker 1: like working on a ship for Disney, just like there's
Speaker 1: a certain brand of people who love to work at
Speaker 1: the theme parks. If it was me, they'd never hired
Speaker 1: me because they know I would have gone psychotic in
Speaker 1: the Goofy costume two days in absolutely and going to
Speaker 1: work with the public and all that you've got a
Speaker 1: kind of a happy person. There's a natural inclination that
Speaker 1: they're looking for. Yeah, and it's you know, Disney specific.
Speaker 1: I mean, I got hired on a cruise ship, so
Speaker 1: anybody could, but you have to find the right one.
Speaker 1: It also sounds like she had a partner or a
Speaker 1: lover on the ship, but we'll kind of get to
Speaker 1: that later. Yeah, I question of that, but I do too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: onto the story. On March eleven, the Wonder pulled out
Speaker 1: of the l A Harbor, heading on a normal voyage
Speaker 1: down to the Mexican Riviera. Rebecca sent a Facebook message
Speaker 1: to her parents saying she was planning to call the
Speaker 1: next day. Later that night, Rebecca was hanging out with
Speaker 1: one of her friends in the crew area, and she
Speaker 1: referred to it as a secret corridor. And we'll talk
Speaker 1: about that later too. The that Guardian article, the author
Speaker 1: actually spoke with that friend that that Rebecca was hanging
Speaker 1: out with, and he called her Melissa, which I don't
Speaker 1: think it's her real name, but we're going to use
Speaker 1: Melissa because that's the only name I have for her.
Speaker 1: And she said, you know, she said they were hanging
Speaker 1: out in this secret corridor. Which really just means on
Speaker 1: monitored crew hall, which there are some. Again, you know,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that in a little bit. Melissa reports
Speaker 1: that Rebecca had been trying to peel her fake eyelashes off.
Speaker 1: Seemed vaguely like the sort of thing that she would
Speaker 1: do when she was drunk. You know, that's sort of
Speaker 1: like drunk person Melissa's fake fake eyelashes. But she had
Speaker 1: just gotten off work, so I don't think she was drunk.
Speaker 1: And that's highly frowned upon, isn't it. I'm drunk. Well,
Speaker 1: and again we'll talk sure about that in a little bit.
Speaker 1: I don't want to break up this story too much, um,
Speaker 1: so we'll circle back around to that. I would think
Speaker 1: there'd be nothing else to do. Again, we'll circle back, Okay, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Melissa says that Rebecca asked her she was going to
Speaker 1: go to the crew bar tonight or that night, I guess,
Speaker 1: and Melissa said she would, but ended up not doing so.
Speaker 1: And then I haven't been able to find the CCTV
Speaker 1: footage of this next part, so please keep that in mind.
Speaker 1: But apparently at AM, Rebecca was on one of the
Speaker 1: internal phones with someone, and reports are that she seemed
Speaker 1: kind of distraught, and she hangs up the phone and
Speaker 1: another crew member walks up to her and appears to
Speaker 1: ask if she's okay. This is CCTV, so there's no sound,
Speaker 1: and I have seen actually still some of this footage,
Speaker 1: and I can't I really can't see how they can
Speaker 1: even recognize whether it's Rebecca, much less whether she's distraught
Speaker 1: or not, because it's so fuzzy, it's so low rich. Well,
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell if it's you know, with the
Speaker 1: low rez stuff. Sometimes it's easier to actually tell what's
Speaker 1: going on when it is moving than it is from
Speaker 1: screen caps. And then again I don't know, since I
Speaker 1: haven't seen the footage, I don't know if it's actual
Speaker 1: screen caps or somebody took a picture with a crappy
Speaker 1: phone or what I've seen. I've seen. I've seen that
Speaker 1: the only thing we've all seen probably the same two
Speaker 1: or three images, and they are extremely hard to tell
Speaker 1: what's going on. So I questioned it too, It's like okay, sure, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: so apparently she seems distraught and then her crew member.
Speaker 1: The fellow crew member walks up to her and says,
Speaker 1: are you okay? And she appears to respond yeah, fine,
Speaker 1: and people report this is a clear lip reading. There's
Speaker 1: reports that the phone call was recorded, but I'm I
Speaker 1: don't I'm not sure if that's true or not. That's
Speaker 1: what that's what I heard. But that's kind of creepy
Speaker 1: that they're recording everybody's internal phone calls. That's a that's
Speaker 1: a massive amount of data. Did you think about the
Speaker 1: massive Well, that's why I'm not so yeah, that's why
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't just call the all the all
Speaker 1: the camera footage. Yeah, yeah, I think I think it's
Speaker 1: likely that they have phone records. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: I think that Disney's telling the truth when they say
Speaker 1: that they know who the call was between, but I
Speaker 1: don't think they know what was said. That's silly. I
Speaker 1: agree with that. Anyway. Rebecca walks down the hall. She's
Speaker 1: seen quote pushing her hair back and putting her hands
Speaker 1: in her back pockets unquote, which is apparently typical behavior
Speaker 1: for her according to her parentscorn to her parents and
Speaker 1: her friends, and then that's the last time anybody's ever
Speaker 1: seen her, at least officially. Officially. Rebecca was scheduled to
Speaker 1: start a shift at nine am on March twenty two,
Speaker 1: but when she failed to show up, um, they obviously
Speaker 1: raised the alarm and paged her and checked her room
Speaker 1: and searched the ship and nothing. And this is very
Speaker 1: important to note because you will see this overlooked in
Speaker 1: almost everything. It's very important to know that the night
Speaker 1: of the One was a s eday. And what that means,
Speaker 1: for those of you who don't know what that is,
Speaker 1: is that the ship did not port at all. It
Speaker 1: left l A. And between the time that it left
Speaker 1: l A and the time Rebecca disappeared, it was in
Speaker 1: the middle of the sea the entire time as soon. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean, they never go so far that it's insane. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes they do, but on these routes, they're
Speaker 1: pretty close to the sea, but it's you don't You don't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty close to the land, but you don't see
Speaker 1: it pretty dang close in fact. Yeah, So that's very
Speaker 1: important for a lot of reasons. But I'm just going
Speaker 1: to keep mentioning that. And they did search the entire
Speaker 1: ship before they made port. Very important. Cool. There was
Speaker 1: an early report that UH fellow crew member said that
Speaker 1: they had seen Rebecca go overboard at three am. Obviously,
Speaker 1: with the discovery of the CCTV footage that is incorrect.
Speaker 1: And also, I will just go ahead and state that
Speaker 1: if you see someone go overboard, you call a code.
Speaker 1: You don't just ignore it and go to bed. You
Speaker 1: notify the bridge. And if you don't actually for somebody
Speaker 1: come forward and say, yeah, I saw somebody go overboard
Speaker 1: at three am, but I didn't notify anyone and didn't
Speaker 1: try to render help. Could be a terminable offense if
Speaker 1: not having charges. Yeah, because you're responsible for their death basically,
Speaker 1: not I mean, not entirely, but basically. So I think
Speaker 1: that that's been added to the story, if I'm honest.
Speaker 1: But that's just my opinion. Man. Admit that the Wonder
Speaker 1: and the crew of the Wonder did report. They called
Speaker 1: it in. You know, they let the Coastguard know, They
Speaker 1: let the Navy know, the Mexican Navy know, They let
Speaker 1: pretty much everybody in the area know. We're missing a
Speaker 1: crew member. We don't really know when we lost this crewmember,
Speaker 1: but please can you help us look for her? So
Speaker 1: the US Coastguard and the Mexican Navy did search the
Speaker 1: international waters that the Wonder was sailing through in the
Speaker 1: time that they thought she might have gone overboard. I
Speaker 1: think they kind of first they were thinking maybe it
Speaker 1: was three am, and then they found the CCTV footage
Speaker 1: and then they thought, okay, so in between probably six
Speaker 1: am and nine am, she went overboard, and I think
Speaker 1: they probably used some deductive reasoning and thinking probably it
Speaker 1: was before daylight. It is reported that the seas were
Speaker 1: rough at that time, so it's pretty unlikely that she
Speaker 1: would have just been, you know, floating there waiting for
Speaker 1: somebody to come find her calms bottle water. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I heard that that night that she went overboard. If
Speaker 1: she did, do you go overboard? It was kind of
Speaker 1: rough seas, right, Yeah, that's what I mean. You know,
Speaker 1: it was rough seas, so it would be unlikely without
Speaker 1: any kind of floatation device or anything like that, it
Speaker 1: would be hard. I think, you know, if she went overboard,
Speaker 1: she would have been lost. And the difficulty is not
Speaker 1: knowing exactly when and where she could have gone to
Speaker 1: the water, because I actually tried to track down the
Speaker 1: conditions of the sea at that time, but what I
Speaker 1: kept running into is that it's location based, and then
Speaker 1: when you get farther out, it was really kind of tough. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I could never say, oh, yeah, I know there was
Speaker 1: this giant storm. I couldn't find any of that easily.
Speaker 1: But I also don't know why Disney would lie about that.
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about this in the theories a lot more.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be a whole bunch of of theories of
Speaker 1: finger pointing of lying Disney. Yeah, I assume that the
Speaker 1: security on the ship did a preliminary investigation. However, since
Speaker 1: the Wonder, like almost every ship that does any circuit
Speaker 1: kind of around America, is registered in Nasaw in the Bahamas,
Speaker 1: the incident happened, and the incident did happen international waters,
Speaker 1: it fell to the Royal Bohemian Police Force to investigate.
Speaker 1: One officer was assigned to this case, which does seem slim.
Speaker 1: I will agree with that that I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: the fact that it's a big ship. I totally understand.
Speaker 1: And he only arrived after the ship ported back in
Speaker 1: l A, so I think that would have been like
Speaker 1: four days later after she disappeared, and he only spent
Speaker 1: a day on the ship. Rebecca's parents, Mike and Anna Maria,
Speaker 1: were notified on the twenty that Rebecca had gone missing.
Speaker 1: They were obviously there in England, so it was night,
Speaker 1: very nighttime for them. They were about to go to bed.
Speaker 1: They had been already worried anyway, because you know, they
Speaker 1: didn't hear from her that day. They were Yeah, they
Speaker 1: flew out to l A and met the ship in
Speaker 1: l A. Also on the friday after she went Rebecca
Speaker 1: went missing. They claimed they were kept in a car
Speaker 1: with darkly tinted windows while the passengers disembarked. Then they
Speaker 1: were taken to meet the captain, who offered condolences and
Speaker 1: told him that he thought Rebecca had gone overboard. Her
Speaker 1: parents were then taken to a meeting with some Disney
Speaker 1: executives and the woman that had reportedly been on the
Speaker 1: phone with Rebecca at am c CCTV TV footage. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just packed all those letters out, That's okay. It
Speaker 1: was rumored to have been a mutual friend of Rebecca
Speaker 1: and this mysterious partner or maybe the partner, but I
Speaker 1: think it was. I think it was a mutual friend.
Speaker 1: And now this is a shame. But Mike and Anna
Speaker 1: Maria didn't get to ask a lot of questions in
Speaker 1: that meeting because they, I mean, you know, they were
Speaker 1: very jet lagged. They hadn't slept since Monday night, right,
Speaker 1: they slew Monday night. They woke up Tuesday morning and
Speaker 1: they hadn't slept the entire time. They'd just flown in
Speaker 1: from England, and frankly they thought they were going to
Speaker 1: get to talk to this group again, which it turned out, no,
Speaker 1: they weren't. They also have expressed that they were just
Speaker 1: they really want to talk to the passengers on the ship,
Speaker 1: and now that it's a lot of people to talk to,
Speaker 1: it confuses me a lot. You know, there are this
Speaker 1: the Wonder is approximately the same size as the ship
Speaker 1: that I was on. That means that there would have
Speaker 1: been probably assuming that it was even you know, partially full,
Speaker 1: it was probably like guests and nine hundred crew. So
Speaker 1: the likelihood of just randomly finding a passenger who interacted
Speaker 1: with your daughter who works on the ship, who is
Speaker 1: frankly only on the ship for a couple of hours
Speaker 1: while you would have maybe interacted with her, seems slim. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: and they could do something like before they disembark, put
Speaker 1: put out something on the PA system so everybody can
Speaker 1: hear and say, hey, whatef our crew edwys disappeared, please
Speaker 1: come look at a photograph. Ever, but you know, they
Speaker 1: like to make it a happy thing. They don't want
Speaker 1: to actually be put stuff like that out. I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, I'm I know, I'm just to say this
Speaker 1: right now. I'm not going to defend Disney. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: sound like I'm defending Disney in this several times. But
Speaker 1: they're not. They're not going to do that because what
Speaker 1: do they want their guests to do. They want their
Speaker 1: guests to have a great time and spend a bunch
Speaker 1: of money and come back and do it again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so of course they're gonna everything is insular. You keep
Speaker 1: the parents here, you keep the crew here, you keep
Speaker 1: the guests over there, and never shall they mix well
Speaker 1: and frankly, and it's too big of a pool of people. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think the thing that Disney probably thought,
Speaker 1: which is what I think, is that there's I mean,
Speaker 1: there's no reason, there's no reason for any of these
Speaker 1: passengers to speak with distraught parents. Yeah, there's just not
Speaker 1: that would take day. And frankly, um, you don't really
Speaker 1: You probably don't want the passengers to know that somebody
Speaker 1: disappeared from their cruise. That's not something you want passengers
Speaker 1: to know. There's there's good reason that cruise lines keep
Speaker 1: that kind of information kind of buttoned up. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you know, and actually not that many people disappear
Speaker 1: up cruise ships every year. But we'll talk about this
Speaker 1: a little bit. Yeah, So, Rebecca's parents were after they met,
Speaker 1: had this kind of short meeting. They were taken to
Speaker 1: her room and given her things. One of the items
Speaker 1: they were given was either a pair or one slipper
Speaker 1: or flip flop. I'm not quite clear on which one is,
Speaker 1: pink and flowery. I usually hear it as flip flop,
Speaker 1: but I've seen the slipper one singular. Yeah one. This
Speaker 1: slipper slash flip flop had been sound the morning of
Speaker 1: near the crew pool. UM. It's on deck five, in
Speaker 1: the bow of the ship. It's pretty typical of cruise
Speaker 1: lines to have a crew pool, have crew specific areas,
Speaker 1: you know. As we're talking about UM, I would say
Speaker 1: that like of the crew, well probably more like six
Speaker 1: of the crew is not allowed in passenger areas at all,
Speaker 1: and then on top of that, only like five max
Speaker 1: probably more like two of the crew are allowed to
Speaker 1: socialize in passenger areas. That means passenger bars, passenger pools,
Speaker 1: passenger restaurants, anything like that. So would that you're talking
Speaker 1: about be people who are working like laundry services or
Speaker 1: engine maintenance or or those kind of I know these
Speaker 1: are very broad categories, but those sort of things that
Speaker 1: guests have no reason to know you exist for okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of ways to get around
Speaker 1: to every area of a ship. I mean it's even
Speaker 1: things like the maintenance people. You're allowed to be in
Speaker 1: a crew a very specific passenger area to perform your
Speaker 1: maintenance task, and then you have to use the nearest
Speaker 1: crew door and get back into crew quarters and crew
Speaker 1: area to get to your next spot. You can't walk
Speaker 1: through passenger you know, hallways or anything like that. Um
Speaker 1: there who underground? It's huge. Oh yeah it is, and
Speaker 1: it's all over the place, and it's really well hidden
Speaker 1: throughout a ship. If you've been on a cruise ship,
Speaker 1: you probably were walking right parallel to crew members and
Speaker 1: you didn't even know it. But you know, you want
Speaker 1: to get you want to keep your crew happy. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're stuck in this tin can, so they we get
Speaker 1: you know, we would get our our own bar, you
Speaker 1: get our own swimming pool, you get your own um
Speaker 1: lounge area. You get your own mess hall. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: call it a restaurant. I wouldn't say it's necessarily very nice,
Speaker 1: but you do get your own mess hall, get your
Speaker 1: own um gym with weights and workout equipment and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. I mean it is. It's it's crummier versions
Speaker 1: of all the stuff the passengers have, but you get
Speaker 1: all the stuff that passengers have, and it's a good
Speaker 1: use of that bow space that like, what else are
Speaker 1: you going to put out there? You definitely don't want
Speaker 1: passengers on the bow. The ship's definitely the ship. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it is. And I mean that's a good point to make,
Speaker 1: is that it's it's pretty much the roughest, most dangerous
Speaker 1: area of a ship, which is why. Yeah, and you
Speaker 1: can you can see photos of that, by the way, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would encourage you to look at those pictures, and
Speaker 1: you can find pictures specifically with crew members, like when
Speaker 1: you know, any of the ships are going out of
Speaker 1: port or anything like that, you can see there's crew
Speaker 1: standing there, So you can really get a scope of
Speaker 1: what the size of everything looks like, because it's hard
Speaker 1: to tell when it's just a picture of the bow
Speaker 1: from land. It's almost impossible to tell what's going on.
Speaker 1: Did you guys see the Minecraft version of this ship? No,
Speaker 1: it's really cool. Somebody I didn't. I don't know how
Speaker 1: to play mine Craft, so I didn't do anything. But
Speaker 1: you can download she was on the this is the Dream?
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Wonder? Thank you? Somebody built the Wonder
Speaker 1: in in Minecraft. Holy crap, But I watched a quick
Speaker 1: flight through. It's really interesting. You have way much too
Speaker 1: much time on their hands, like people like us podcast.
Speaker 1: What do you do with this thing? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know how Minecraft works. Please nobody send me
Speaker 1: an email on how Minecraft works. I just haven't looked
Speaker 1: it up. We do know how to google, I promise ye.
Speaker 1: And there's okay. So there's also some mystery about the
Speaker 1: slipper flip flop thing, because there's been some speculation that
Speaker 1: it wasn't actually Rebecca's, could have could have been left
Speaker 1: it by anybody, anybody on the crew. Yeah, yeah, anyone
Speaker 1: on the crew. That's the end of the story, and
Speaker 1: that's the end of the investigation. The only other things
Speaker 1: really are that. Um. About two weeks after Rebecca's disappearance,
Speaker 1: her family got an email from a bank. That's that
Speaker 1: there had been some activity on one of her accounts
Speaker 1: in the last few weeks. This gave the family hope
Speaker 1: that Rebecca was alive, but I think it was a
Speaker 1: bit misplaced, and apparently they had not previously been aware
Speaker 1: of this account. They were eventually able to find the
Speaker 1: paperwork in Rebecca's things that she had opened this account,
Speaker 1: but they didn't find her cards. Yeah, it was just
Speaker 1: a regular credit card. It wasn't a bank card. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I think she probably got it in America. Yeah,
Speaker 1: probably in her training time. Yeah, So that gave the
Speaker 1: family some hope that she was alive. But again all
Speaker 1: this stuff will talk about in a minute. And then
Speaker 1: after that, in that September, Rebecca's uncle Ye found that
Speaker 1: someone had changed the password on Rebecca's Facebook and I
Speaker 1: think they had been maintaining it. The family had been
Speaker 1: maintaining it just too uh, you know, if somebody was
Speaker 1: trying to contact her, or maybe she was trying to
Speaker 1: contact her, you know, her, to keep an eye on
Speaker 1: and you have access and also to maintain as am
Speaker 1: amore and Facebook now will turn pages into memorials, and
Speaker 1: that changes the way that they work a little bit
Speaker 1: but apparently somebody logged in and changed the password, which
Speaker 1: again gave the family a little hope that she was alive.
Speaker 1: And then on March one, two thousand and twelve, a
Speaker 1: woman emailed the family claiming to have seen Rebecca in Venice.
Speaker 1: She said she was eight five percent sure it was
Speaker 1: her um, but Rebecca's passport had been in her belongings,
Speaker 1: so she would have had to find a different way
Speaker 1: into Yes, easy, you just go to Libya and hire
Speaker 1: a smuggler to take you across in that tranean it's safe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: safe as a young white woman. You're right, Los Angeles
Speaker 1: to Olibya is super easy. Really, you just swim, I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: an adventure. Yeah, let's circle back around and talk about
Speaker 1: just a couple of things real quick. Here, we've got
Speaker 1: the CTC can stupid a closed circuit television. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: there's closed circuit television or CCTV. Because I can say
Speaker 1: it all over cruise ships, and you can imagine, I'm
Speaker 1: sure that there are is less CCTV cameras. There are
Speaker 1: less cameras in crew areas than there are in passenger areas.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you can figure out why. But there are
Speaker 1: a lot of areas that one could go that wouldn't
Speaker 1: be covered by cameras in crew areas. It's I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're not going to monitor every hallway that you
Speaker 1: know the crew people are going to be in, there
Speaker 1: isn't isn't in any area of any consequence. Yeah. Well yeah,
Speaker 1: and you're not as concerned about the crew frankly, which
Speaker 1: is kind of, you know, callous to say, but it's true.
Speaker 1: You cast a wider net on their activities. You don't
Speaker 1: try and focus on every angle of the hallway. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: So it is I guess it is possible that Rebecca
Speaker 1: moved around the ship without there being any more CCTV
Speaker 1: footage of her, although I do I do think there
Speaker 1: probably was at least one camera at the crew pool.
Speaker 1: That seems like the on of place on the bow
Speaker 1: of the ship mentioned. But it's also notable that the
Speaker 1: author of that article was very clear in the fact
Speaker 1: that he couldn't tell if that was a new or
Speaker 1: a previously existing He said, there are cameras on the promenade,
Speaker 1: the deck four promenade, which is where he originally thought
Speaker 1: that Rebecca had fallen from until he started talking to
Speaker 1: the crew. He said there were cameras there. He didn't
Speaker 1: have access to the crew area, so he would have
Speaker 1: had no way of knowing if there were cameras in
Speaker 1: the crew pool or not. See. I thought somehow he
Speaker 1: had gotten himself into the crew pool area. Okay, then
Speaker 1: I'm I'm wrong, which is not surprising. Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: won my ship and somebody let him in, you would
Speaker 1: be in big old trouble, like a lot of trouble.
Speaker 1: Fast doesn't get you in there. Well, his wouldn't, that's true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And they might not have had one of the crew
Speaker 1: pool actually as possible, but it kind of looks like,
Speaker 1: but I can't be percent certain, kind of looks like
Speaker 1: from up on the bridge in the control room where
Speaker 1: you know, the captain and the pilot, isn't everything they
Speaker 1: would be able to see down into the crew pool area. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so well we'll talk about that in theories. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: other thing I do want to mention is um I
Speaker 1: you know, talked about Rebecca being maybe seeming a little
Speaker 1: drunk um possibly drunk. Yeah, and but she was just
Speaker 1: getting off shift, which makes me think I thought she
Speaker 1: got off her shift at like what to she just
Speaker 1: got sorry when she was trying to pull Melissa quote
Speaker 1: unquote Melissa's ear. Yeah, that she had literally just gotten
Speaker 1: done with work. Um, and so that makes me think
Speaker 1: that she was not drunk because it's super unallowed. And
Speaker 1: that's not to say that people don't break the rules.
Speaker 1: And yes, it is true job that it's almost the
Speaker 1: only thing to do as a crew member when you're
Speaker 1: not working is to drink um. But there are a
Speaker 1: lot of really really harsh restrictions on that. And again,
Speaker 1: I didn't work for DCL. I worked for a different
Speaker 1: cruise line, which again I'm not going to tell you
Speaker 1: which one it was because I don't want you to know.
Speaker 1: But on the cruise line that I worked for, crew
Speaker 1: members were forbidden to have a blood alcohol level above
Speaker 1: point oh five, like seriously, for I mean, this is
Speaker 1: for a ton of reasons obviously, um and does apply
Speaker 1: to literally all crew In fact, it's the that's the
Speaker 1: minimum or the maximum, I guess is really the better
Speaker 1: way to say it. Obviously, the higher ranking you go,
Speaker 1: the less in toxic did you're allowed to be. I
Speaker 1: was friends with the first mate on our ship. He
Speaker 1: was one of only four Americans and the crew of nine.
Speaker 1: I was one of the other four and uh, he
Speaker 1: was only allowed to drink off ship and had to
Speaker 1: be under point oh two at all times when he
Speaker 1: was on the ship. Well, I mean if he's not
Speaker 1: drinking on the ship, I can even be point oh
Speaker 1: two when you're at port. So we actually had before
Speaker 1: you walk back on the only time I was on
Speaker 1: that ship for six months and I hung out with
Speaker 1: him a lot, and the only time I ever saw
Speaker 1: him drink was when we had to stay in port
Speaker 1: overnight in Nassau because there was a storm that we
Speaker 1: couldn't get out of port. And that was the only
Speaker 1: time I ever saw him drink. And he had two
Speaker 1: drinks over the course of like six hours and that
Speaker 1: was it. And like that's life for those people. Again,
Speaker 1: you can imagine why you would require your crew to
Speaker 1: be that. So, hey, we have this major catastrophe follow
Speaker 1: drunk the lifeboat exactly. I mean the crew is the
Speaker 1: emergency crew. I mean there's no one else to help
Speaker 1: you off the ship if something goes wrong, and so
Speaker 1: you can't. I mean they are like, you know, the
Speaker 1: crew is the firefighting crew. And it's not just there's
Speaker 1: some people on the ship who are specifically firefighter crews,
Speaker 1: it's like no, no, no, you leave your job that
Speaker 1: you're doing your other job and go fight that fire
Speaker 1: that's on the ship. If somebody's having a medical emergency
Speaker 1: and you're on the medical team, yes there are doctors
Speaker 1: on there, but there are also emergency or emergency medical
Speaker 1: responders and they're selected again from all different areas of
Speaker 1: the ship. And so if it happens that you are
Speaker 1: super super drunk, like really really drunk, and something goes wrong,
Speaker 1: suddenly you're in charge of trying to get people off
Speaker 1: a ship. It's this huge liability on top of that.
Speaker 1: While we're talking about liability, of course, there's the liability
Speaker 1: of you know, if you get drunk and do something stupid.
Speaker 1: Technically the ship is liable in ways of like if
Speaker 1: you hurt yourself, but also if you heard a passenger
Speaker 1: in any way. Yeah, you can't get drunk. You really
Speaker 1: can't get drunk on the job, and you're required to
Speaker 1: stop drinking two hours prior to your shift. So I
Speaker 1: don't think Rebecca was drunk at that time. I think
Speaker 1: she probably was drunk later. So this is not World
Speaker 1: War two sailor drinking style. No, no, no, no, can
Speaker 1: I ask a question real quick. So the close circuit
Speaker 1: television of supposedly Rebecca on the telephone was what time
Speaker 1: do we know? What was the okay? And the friend
Speaker 1: under the name Rebecca Melissa says that they were hanging
Speaker 1: out at about two am and she was supposed to
Speaker 1: be reporting for duty at nine am. That's what I
Speaker 1: was thinking to um this timeline. I mean, I get it,
Speaker 1: she's she's in her early twenties. Sleep doesn't matter. I
Speaker 1: remember those times a long time ago, But like that,
Speaker 1: that just seems That's one of the things that always
Speaker 1: kind of makes me scratch my head about this, this
Speaker 1: whole series of events that are laid out of supposed
Speaker 1: sightings of her. Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's
Speaker 1: not Rebecca in the CCTV footage, but I also don't
Speaker 1: necessarily think that she intended to stay up that late.
Speaker 1: I mean, frankly, when I would go out on the ship,
Speaker 1: you know, my job was less intense than the one
Speaker 1: that Rebecca was doing, but you know I would go
Speaker 1: out and you stop drinking three hours before your shift,
Speaker 1: you sleep for those three hours. You wake up and
Speaker 1: you go to your shift, and you're probablyngover and you're
Speaker 1: probably gonna hate yourself, but it was fun for a while.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's pretty easy to do. Yeah, and actually, um,
Speaker 1: when I'm sleeping on a cruise ship, best sleep in
Speaker 1: my life. It's it's totally dark, there's the slight rocking.
Speaker 1: You're in this little cocoon of a bunk. It's great.
Speaker 1: I guess there's also I guess the thing that I
Speaker 1: forget is part of We all have to wake up
Speaker 1: and get ready for our day and then commute to
Speaker 1: the job. There's no community. Could probably wake up twenty
Speaker 1: minutes ahead of time and shower and brush your teeth
Speaker 1: and have fifteen minutes to just figure out where you're at. Yeah, exactly, Okay,
Speaker 1: get a cup of coffee, a little brecky. Yeah, theories
Speaker 1: I think we should talk about. Yeah, unless you want
Speaker 1: to talk about, you know, the cost of alcohol and
Speaker 1: crew bar or anything like that. Cheap. Oh yeah, you
Speaker 1: could get a corona for a buck, and you know,
Speaker 1: bottle of wine for like three bucks. There's no liquor
Speaker 1: in our crew bars, although I've heard from other people
Speaker 1: that DCL does do liquor in crew bar, But I
Speaker 1: think that's silly and I don't think they probably actually do.
Speaker 1: That's how they make it the happiest place. Maybe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a couple of little business housekeeping things
Speaker 1: out of the way before we actually do theories. First off, Um,
Speaker 1: this like stood out to me a lot. Well, no,
Speaker 1: it stood out to me a lot, and I just
Speaker 1: got really annoyed. So I just want to say it
Speaker 1: right off the bat. One of the threads on Reddit
Speaker 1: that you'll read links to an A. M. A with
Speaker 1: a quote unquote former cruise ship employee. Yeah and uh
Speaker 1: he or this person claims that you just like drop
Speaker 1: the bodies off of the nearest port if somebody dies
Speaker 1: on the ship, which is not true. You drop it
Speaker 1: off with the nearest port to be shipped home. But
Speaker 1: the way that it was represented in this whole debate
Speaker 1: made it sound like like a cruise line care so
Speaker 1: little for deaf on the ship that it would just
Speaker 1: drop the body, would just drop them off at whatever
Speaker 1: little island they were docking out. Who cares if it
Speaker 1: doesn't have airplane service. We just got to get the
Speaker 1: body off the ship, exactly, and that is the lat
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure that nobody takes it
Speaker 1: that way when they were reading about this, they call
Speaker 1: fed X and fed X drivers they're waiting to meet
Speaker 1: and when they get to the port. No, actually not
Speaker 1: Brown doesn't do that. Also, if you read some of
Speaker 1: these am as, you maybe don't notice that, Yes, two
Speaker 1: years ago I did share my thoughts on this case
Speaker 1: on one of those threads. And yes, I'm saying almost
Speaker 1: the exact same thing now. But you guys keep asking
Speaker 1: for this story, so we're gonna do it anyway. A right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So now it's really theory side. Now, it's really because
Speaker 1: the house keeping out of the way, house keeps all
Speaker 1: the way. First theory murder, It's possible, but I found it.
Speaker 1: I find it really unlikely. Do you think it was
Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse? No? I don't think everybody. I've got a
Speaker 1: big knife. Sorry, that was goodness. Okay. So I've read
Speaker 1: and you will probably read too, from people who were
Speaker 1: quote on that ship literally a week before unquote, and
Speaker 1: they said that their cruise was perfectly smooth. Same, so
Speaker 1: there's no way that the could have been that rough.
Speaker 1: And obviously the crew is lying about it. You know,
Speaker 1: you know what actually dictates the sea and the weather
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, the weather and you know, what
Speaker 1: is liable to change pretty quickly the weather. I'm actually
Speaker 1: weirdly going to defend these people a little bit because
Speaker 1: the one time that I want on a cruise, it
Speaker 1: was beautiful weather the whole time, except for the last
Speaker 1: night heading back to Florida, and apparently we went through
Speaker 1: some pretty rough seas. The person who was with me
Speaker 1: was nauseous from it being really really rocky. I, however,
Speaker 1: had been partaking of the booze to the point that
Speaker 1: I had passed right out and was soundly sleeping through
Speaker 1: the whole thing and had no idea. So I can
Speaker 1: see how people was. The sea was great the whole time.
Speaker 1: I never noticed anything. I drank like a half a
Speaker 1: bottle of boo. But it's also possible that a week
Speaker 1: before the sea was perfect, Yes, and the sea changes
Speaker 1: on an hourly Basis that that that they're lying about
Speaker 1: the weather. YEA, yeah, no, that's silly. I also don't
Speaker 1: it doesn't give me such a problem that the bank
Speaker 1: card was used, because if somebody murdered her and taking
Speaker 1: her bank card, they would have used it multiple times maybe.
Speaker 1: And also, you know, I don't know if you've got
Speaker 1: I've got a few things like Nextflix, for example, they
Speaker 1: justly ding my cart the best thing ever hand, and
Speaker 1: so it could have just been that. It could have
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that you do when
Speaker 1: you're on a cruise ships you get a p O box.
Speaker 1: I mean, like not everybody does, but it makes life
Speaker 1: so much easier if you go and get a Post
Speaker 1: office box and you just pay the monthly subscription on
Speaker 1: your card and pay the monthly fee or whatever. There's
Speaker 1: so many things that could be so I it doesn't
Speaker 1: really we don't know what it was that the withdrawal
Speaker 1: was for we as I could not tell. I mean
Speaker 1: it was hard to tell. A couple of people I
Speaker 1: saw online saying oh, it was found to be the subscription,
Speaker 1: but I think that that I think they were just assuming,
Speaker 1: like we are, that it was a subscription because I
Speaker 1: wasn't ever able to find anything to substantiate that. Even
Speaker 1: the credit card company wouldn't tell her family was Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, even if even if it was stolen
Speaker 1: and used one time, I mean, it's not that's not
Speaker 1: it's not so hard to get into other crew members rooms.
Speaker 1: That's why I was actually thinking about just an online hack.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's a lot of different ways that somebody
Speaker 1: could have gotten that. I mean, also the Facebook log in.
Speaker 1: I don't know about you that you guys don't actually
Speaker 1: use Facebook that much. My boyfriend also does not use
Speaker 1: Facebook that much, and um, he gets little emails from
Speaker 1: Facebook all the time saying, hey, somebody tried to access
Speaker 1: your account from this place. And I think they do
Speaker 1: go after those accounts that aren't used as much, because
Speaker 1: it's like the people aren't going to notice that they're
Speaker 1: hacked if they're not using their account, so that doesn't
Speaker 1: account more, you know, weirdly is uh, Evidently they do
Speaker 1: this on a regular basis, but I didn't know this
Speaker 1: is you guys heard about the recent leak of all
Speaker 1: the LinkedIn information. I apparently was in that batch and
Speaker 1: Facebook figured it out because they forced me to change
Speaker 1: my personal account password recently. Right, but they forced you.
Speaker 1: It didn't just happen automatically. Right. But what I'm saying
Speaker 1: is that I could have been hacked at any time
Speaker 1: and would have not known it. It's only because of them,
Speaker 1: because I had no idea what was in that leaked batch,
Speaker 1: and those leaks come out much later, so it's it's
Speaker 1: very easy. I agree that she could have just been hacked.
Speaker 1: I mean, how many times have we had people try
Speaker 1: to join our Facebook group who looked like perfectly normal
Speaker 1: people when you review their online profile, and then as
Speaker 1: soon as they get in there offering to sell sunglasses
Speaker 1: ray bands for super cheap to everybody. Exactly, It's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's impossible to tell. So I guess I'm not so
Speaker 1: bothered by that either. Yeah. Sometimes people share their passwords
Speaker 1: with other people too. Yeah. One thing I was reading
Speaker 1: about online, um was and actually this person made a
Speaker 1: really good point was that you know, if somebody love
Speaker 1: dies me, you know, friends have passwords or it's easy
Speaker 1: to guess what their password is, and it's not unheard
Speaker 1: of that you would, you know, log in to their
Speaker 1: stuff and you know, maybe you get drunk and change
Speaker 1: the password. I don't know, maybe you want to go
Speaker 1: in there and delete some derogatory stuff. I was going
Speaker 1: to say, there's that that rule among friends that hey,
Speaker 1: if I die, there's some certain things that you need
Speaker 1: to remove from all of my profo. He was. I
Speaker 1: mean it was significantly later than that though, I mean
Speaker 1: it was September, so I understand that, but it would
Speaker 1: explain having the password. But This says nothing to explain
Speaker 1: the whole murder theory, So there's not any good substance
Speaker 1: to the murder theory except for the vague rumor that
Speaker 1: Rebecca might have been in a love triangle between her
Speaker 1: lady Love and a quote unquote older man. I can't
Speaker 1: I really can't find a source for this. I can't
Speaker 1: find any additional information other than basically that one sentence
Speaker 1: said for different ways to basically many found out about
Speaker 1: Mickey and her yeah something like that and pushed her overboard. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: think about it. Is is the crewis besides besides the
Speaker 1: swimming pool up in the forecastle of the ship. Um,
Speaker 1: where else was there that the crew could go? Where
Speaker 1: there was they were actually in an open place with
Speaker 1: the railing where somebody could push her overboard without anybody noticing,
Speaker 1: guaranteed no one noticing. Yeah where? Yeah, Well were there
Speaker 1: places where there there where a crew could go mix
Speaker 1: next to the railing with the passengers, or they could
Speaker 1: or there was where their places set aside besides the pool,
Speaker 1: where the crew could go and have a you know,
Speaker 1: a nice little outside, little promenade space and you know
Speaker 1: that they could look at the ocean from or something
Speaker 1: like that. I mean the promenade space. But if they
Speaker 1: would have to be approved, I mean, you know, Rebecca
Speaker 1: was approved to be would have been approved to be
Speaker 1: in certain passenger areas. The promenade would have been one
Speaker 1: of them. But I don't know. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: since I don't know who her lover and this older
Speaker 1: man were, I don't know, you know what if they
Speaker 1: would have been allowed up there or not. And I
Speaker 1: also know that it takes but a second for somebody
Speaker 1: to walk out a door onto the promenade. Okay, but
Speaker 1: you know, I was just thinking if you wanted to
Speaker 1: murder a crew member on a cruise ship, you know,
Speaker 1: if you wanted to murder one of your fellow passengers,
Speaker 1: if you want of the guys that can afford to
Speaker 1: get a really nice cabin with your own balcony and everything,
Speaker 1: that you can lose somebody in your in your cabin
Speaker 1: and then murder them and just push them overboard. But
Speaker 1: they're going to be on tape going your room. The problem. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's ways around that. He's cut He just cut the cable.
Speaker 1: That's not a thing. But yeah, I mean they're all
Speaker 1: like installed in the law or you know, I want
Speaker 1: to buy the tricks. It's not what you see at
Speaker 1: the seven eleven with the big co x cable loop.
Speaker 1: But you can just take a take a sticky note
Speaker 1: and just stick it to the lens and you're taking
Speaker 1: nobody go that's weird. This person disappeared, and this line
Speaker 1: actually would orange for a while. That also assumes that
Speaker 1: there's only one camera in the hallway, which I can
Speaker 1: tell you is not true. They're about every six or
Speaker 1: seven doors and passenger areas anyway. But we're off topic here.
Speaker 1: Let me go back to what my original point was.
Speaker 1: Is that if you wanted to murder somebody and you
Speaker 1: had your own balcony everything, and you can probably get
Speaker 1: away with it. There's ways to do it. But if
Speaker 1: you want to murder somebody down in cruise quarters, how
Speaker 1: the hell are you going to get their body up
Speaker 1: to somewhere where you can pitch them overboard without somebody seeing?
Speaker 1: And I guess the cameras to The addition to that
Speaker 1: is that you I guess you could technically do that
Speaker 1: off of the promenade, but again, it'd be really hard
Speaker 1: to guarantee that nobody would see you. You could do
Speaker 1: it in the crew area, except for the walls too
Speaker 1: high in the crew pool area to pitch someone over
Speaker 1: why I'm gonna I'm gonna pull the famous card, which
Speaker 1: is you're making a presumption. Okay, so let's say that
Speaker 1: somebody has a reason to kill her. Well, that doesn't
Speaker 1: necessarily mean that they dumped her overboard. They could have
Speaker 1: stashed her in something that they knew was going to
Speaker 1: go away in a not so well monitored area. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, it's completely possible too. You know, actually a
Speaker 1: hell of a lot easier. You know how they deal
Speaker 1: with trash on cruise ships compacted, So you shove down
Speaker 1: the garbage shoot. I know that that sounds cruel, but
Speaker 1: it's what people if people have done this stuff before,
Speaker 1: is they shove the body and the compactor, and they
Speaker 1: run the compactor and then when it gets back to
Speaker 1: wherever it goes and it pushes out that big giant
Speaker 1: cube of disposed mickey ears there's a body in it,
Speaker 1: but nobody knows because it's picked up by a forklift
Speaker 1: and driven to the landfill. And the probably doesn't that great.
Speaker 1: It actually smells probably worse than a dead body. It's
Speaker 1: a complete and total insight. It would have to be
Speaker 1: for murder to have worked a pretty well engineered or
Speaker 1: spread across several people to pull off. And I don't
Speaker 1: think that's what happened. I mean, getting getting to the
Speaker 1: trash compactor again without being seen going to be kind
Speaker 1: of hard, not really, I mean, or you'd have to
Speaker 1: have a friend who reset the switch on that camera
Speaker 1: so that you know. I mean there's loops and all
Speaker 1: of that. But let's just say somebody shut it off
Speaker 1: or shut off a bank, and you run and you
Speaker 1: toss it in and nobody knows that you know how
Speaker 1: to get to it. In a blinder, there's a bajillion
Speaker 1: I'm using air quotes ways to make this happen. I
Speaker 1: don't believe any of it. I will just say in defense, um,
Speaker 1: everything used to transport anything on cruise ships is a
Speaker 1: little bigger. So you know, when you're talking about trash cans,
Speaker 1: you're talking about its smallest to those twenty gallon big
Speaker 1: old guys that you roll. I mean they have, you know,
Speaker 1: three or four times that size of things that collect
Speaker 1: trash as well. So I mean all you have to
Speaker 1: do is get to one of those and then bury
Speaker 1: it a little bit and then lift it up and
Speaker 1: dump it down the shoot and there's no I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's our really shoot, but yeah, but there is there
Speaker 1: is that whole question of why would anybody want to
Speaker 1: kill her? Why would anybody want to kill her? And
Speaker 1: then also, you know you have to have an access
Speaker 1: key card to get into the dump, yeah, because you know, actually,
Speaker 1: as it turns out, just not every crew member is
Speaker 1: allowed to dump things for good reasons. Yeah, like what
Speaker 1: we just talked about. Okay, so we'll go ahead and
Speaker 1: say that's a bad theory. So besides what you spend
Speaker 1: time in that cruise ship was there it was it
Speaker 1: filled with unhappy, psychotic people, or it was was it
Speaker 1: filled with fun loving, you know, outgoing types who wouldn't
Speaker 1: be likely murder? Well, it's interesting. I feel like the
Speaker 1: people who know about the disappearance rates from cruise ships
Speaker 1: are always saying things like, yeah, it's just drifters and
Speaker 1: rapists or the only people who work on cruise ships.
Speaker 1: And I would get away with you, Well, I would
Speaker 1: say that it is true that, um, there are a few,
Speaker 1: but there's nine people on the crew on the show.
Speaker 1: Like the odds are in the favor that there's going
Speaker 1: to be at least one or two crazy creepy skiezy people.
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't say any of the people that I
Speaker 1: worked with were psychopaths. I wouldn't say any of them
Speaker 1: would probably murder anyone. And you know who to stay
Speaker 1: away from. As crew members, you just do if somebody's
Speaker 1: kind of skiazy, you stay away from that person or
Speaker 1: you and you know where the cameras are and you
Speaker 1: make sure that you're there if that person is coming.
Speaker 1: That's just what you do. So I which I know
Speaker 1: it sounds crazy, but it's true. I just don't think
Speaker 1: that somebody probably murdered her. That's silly because why Okay,
Speaker 1: the next theory is based on the fact that somebody
Speaker 1: was sure that they saw Rebecca in Venice, that is,
Speaker 1: that she facured disappearance, but almost literally impossible because it
Speaker 1: was a se day and they searched the entire ship,
Speaker 1: So she would have had to have some accomplices to
Speaker 1: not only um to not only hide for that entire day,
Speaker 1: but also to get off the ship. Because I don't
Speaker 1: know if you know this or not, but the comings
Speaker 1: and goings from a ship are highly monitored and they
Speaker 1: are only like two ways to get off a ship,
Speaker 1: and there are security guards at all of those points,
Speaker 1: both on the ship and landside. It'd be almost impossible
Speaker 1: for her to just slip by unseen. Yeah, and you gotta,
Speaker 1: don't You get it like an electronic card when you
Speaker 1: board a ship as a pass that you have to
Speaker 1: scan as you have your crew. If your crew member,
Speaker 1: you have the same thing, you have to scan it
Speaker 1: on and off. They don't, then that's how they know
Speaker 1: if everyone's on the ship or not about the passengers.
Speaker 1: So yes, crew and passengers, A passengers, everybody has a card. Yes,
Speaker 1: all right, So here's actually did it? So she borrowed
Speaker 1: if she lifted a card from one of the passengers,
Speaker 1: actually borrowed it and then attached it to a carrier
Speaker 1: pitch and when she was safely on shore and the
Speaker 1: pigeon brought it back to brought it back to the passenger,
Speaker 1: and it just so happened that that passenger wasn't trying
Speaker 1: to leave the ship that day. Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: One of the things I've noticed, though, is that nobody
Speaker 1: anywhere mentions whether any lifeboats were missing, So I had
Speaker 1: to assume they didn't do account and there has to
Speaker 1: be a missing life bone. She must have taken one.
Speaker 1: Those are really easy to tell Rebus. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: if we if we're gonna, I'm gonna piggyback on that idea.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen a whole lot about it, but I
Speaker 1: mean people would then have to make this kind of
Speaker 1: Disney was complicit in the whole thing. And this is
Speaker 1: a Chessler situation. Did you you guys have seen fight Club? Okay, well,
Speaker 1: the Boston fight Club. His name was Chessler and it
Speaker 1: was the he got him in such a bad situation
Speaker 1: to blackmailing to say, you're gonna pay me and you're
Speaker 1: gonna let me go. And that's the kind of situation
Speaker 1: that this would have to be. It would have to
Speaker 1: be a Rebecca caught somebody doing something so horrendous and
Speaker 1: Disney said, well, either you're gonna sleep with the mickeys
Speaker 1: or you're gonna disappear, and they said okay. She said, okay,
Speaker 1: Well get me off of this ship, don't tell anybody,
Speaker 1: and I'll never don the ears again. And that's that's insane,
Speaker 1: but it's it's on the same level of I feel
Speaker 1: like faking the disappearance. I also think that kidnapping is
Speaker 1: in the same vein. Really, how do you get her
Speaker 1: off the ship? Well, not only how do you get
Speaker 1: her off the ship, but like why why do it
Speaker 1: on a sea day? Right? Why do it overnight when
Speaker 1: there's like no reason for her disappeared? Why don't you
Speaker 1: wait until she gets off the ship in port or
Speaker 1: when they're in port and you can take her off
Speaker 1: the ship, like precisely, I mean, and that's it's absurd.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of like committing armed bank robbery
Speaker 1: on a ship when there's no bank there. And I
Speaker 1: guess that's not a perfect analogy, but your sense your
Speaker 1: kidnapped people on land. Yeah, yeah, you can't kidnaps. You could,
Speaker 1: I guess, kidnap somebody on a ship and then try
Speaker 1: to smuggle off the ship somehow, But it really seems
Speaker 1: like an absurd thing to do. I'm going to go
Speaker 1: back to the same question again. Those Okay, So if
Speaker 1: that's the case, if she was kidnapped, why is Disney
Speaker 1: hiding it? If there's because there is cameras every and
Speaker 1: everything is so regulated, why are they just going well
Speaker 1: and here and here's the deal. If she was kidnapped,
Speaker 1: where it's the ransom demands they can only assume she
Speaker 1: was kidnapped in order to be murdered, in which case
Speaker 1: we're back to murder. I guess, well, she could have
Speaker 1: been kidnapped for sexual slavery, but that's a different story.
Speaker 1: That's true. I was figuring the ransom demand was pinned
Speaker 1: a Pluto, and we know how good he is a
Speaker 1: delivering thing, that he's bad at it. The next theory
Speaker 1: is suicide, which I'm kind of willing to entertain, but
Speaker 1: I'm just going to blend it with the next theory
Speaker 1: as well, which is it's an accident. So either it
Speaker 1: was an accident or it was a suicide, yeah, or
Speaker 1: intentional death. And I've got an emails from people about
Speaker 1: about suicide, people who knew no more about it than
Speaker 1: I do, you know, and so I don't claim to
Speaker 1: be an expert on it. But from what I understand
Speaker 1: about Rebecca, she was pretty happy. I'm not I'm sure
Speaker 1: she wasn't totally happy and cheery every hundred percent of
Speaker 1: the day, but nobody is. Nobody is, But she seemed
Speaker 1: like she was a pretty upbeat person. Yeah, I would
Speaker 1: agree with that. Not likely, not that that necessarily means
Speaker 1: that you're not suicidal, but no, it can't happen. But yeah,
Speaker 1: seems like she wasn't the type. Yeah, so I guess
Speaker 1: even if it was an accident, it probably was a
Speaker 1: bit of an intentional accident given the conditions. And you know, again,
Speaker 1: this is trusting that the conditions are what Disney says
Speaker 1: they were. We've already said that the weather was probably
Speaker 1: bad that night, and in fact, i've I've read that
Speaker 1: the weather was so bad earlier that night that whoever
Speaker 1: was commanding, I think it was more around midnight that
Speaker 1: this happened. But whoever was commanding, who was on the bridge,
Speaker 1: looked down and saw someone down there and the area
Speaker 1: in the pool area, crew member in the pool area
Speaker 1: and sent security to get him in because it was
Speaker 1: too dangerous. Um the same ship, because I had heard
Speaker 1: something about someone saying I had a friend that was
Speaker 1: in the pool area when they shouldn't have been in
Speaker 1: high season. They had to be rescued and then they
Speaker 1: were shipped home. I thought it was the same one.
Speaker 1: But I could be mistaken. This is the problem. I
Speaker 1: thought it was the same night, even always mixed with
Speaker 1: a ton of personal anecdotal stories. Well, this time I
Speaker 1: knew about that's why maskt Yeah, well I think sorry,
Speaker 1: go ahead. I'm kind of wondering too, what it's like.
Speaker 1: You know, you got a full full pool out there,
Speaker 1: what happens to that water? It's just just all slash
Speaker 1: out and then just run out through the scuppers and
Speaker 1: that's it chlorinating the ocean. And then they got to
Speaker 1: refill the refill the pool or sometimes you can really
Speaker 1: get pushed around the deck by a big wall of water. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I see why they would take people out of there. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: the so the wall in the crew pool area is
Speaker 1: the bulkhead looks appears to me to be something like
Speaker 1: six plus feet high. Would that be correct. I've heard
Speaker 1: just like ten feet high. I don't think it's ten ft.
Speaker 1: That's why I was saying, you should look at the
Speaker 1: pictures with the people around it. I think it's probably
Speaker 1: six ft. I don't think it's probably ten ft. That's
Speaker 1: why I'm not sure, because I've looked at the pictures
Speaker 1: and I can't get a good a good case. But
Speaker 1: out there, well you see this thing where it says, oh,
Speaker 1: she probably just climbed up there just to sit up
Speaker 1: there to look around, and then it was an accident,
Speaker 1: something happened and she rolled overboard because of that, you know.
Speaker 1: But again I don't know how tall it is, so
Speaker 1: I think it is. I mean, I think it's six
Speaker 1: ft tall. And in that picture I just showed around
Speaker 1: and again I'm encouraging everybody to go find UM. You
Speaker 1: can see crew members standing on standing while standing on
Speaker 1: the wall next to the pool, and then standing next
Speaker 1: to the wall, and it does look like they can
Speaker 1: see over it at least, you know, within a couple inches.
Speaker 1: Maybe it actually makes sense, you know, the kind of
Speaker 1: prison like to have these ten foot walls surrounding you
Speaker 1: when you're yourself. And to I mean to your point,
Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with the idea that Rebecca
Speaker 1: might have climbed up, probably not the side of the wall,
Speaker 1: but even more, you know, forward on the bow or
Speaker 1: even towards the rear, I mean towards the more towards
Speaker 1: where the bridges and stuff like that. The superstructure of
Speaker 1: the ship. Yeah, I'm not sure if there's a lot
Speaker 1: of room there, but you can hop on. So the
Speaker 1: way that it's set up. Again, go look at pictures.
Speaker 1: Is UM on the bow, there's it's covered a then
Speaker 1: it dips down into the pool crew pool area area.
Speaker 1: But in right next to where that dips down is
Speaker 1: um these big pods that holds life rafts that you
Speaker 1: know expand. Um. But you could hop onto one of those.
Speaker 1: They're not very tall, four ft tall. You could hop
Speaker 1: onto one of those and then hop on to the
Speaker 1: bow pretty easily. And um. Having been on a cruise
Speaker 1: ship and drunk on a cruise ship, one of the
Speaker 1: most refreshing feelings, especially when you're getting a little stir
Speaker 1: crazy and a little upset, is to have sea wind
Speaker 1: blowing in your face the world. Yeah, which is again
Speaker 1: that exact thing is why passengers aren't allowed to be
Speaker 1: in that area. But um, I don't have such a
Speaker 1: hard time making the leap of you know, maybe it
Speaker 1: had calmed down, maybe the weather had calmed down. Um.
Speaker 1: Random swells are a thing. Say, yeah, it's not so
Speaker 1: hard for you to be on the bottle of the
Speaker 1: ship and to have it just go put down into
Speaker 1: a little you know, ditch depression an area and you
Speaker 1: would just slide right off, or a ship or you know,
Speaker 1: a big wave comes up or whatever. Um. So I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's what's typical practice on a cruise ship.
Speaker 1: But do they have like lighting, spotlights anything like that.
Speaker 1: Would anybody up on the on the bridge have been
Speaker 1: able to see her if she was up on the bower.
Speaker 1: Would that have been in darkness? It probably would have
Speaker 1: been in darkness. Well, I don't think it probably would
Speaker 1: have been complete darkness. There's probably some standard minimum lighting
Speaker 1: in an area that people can easily access. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: you would like it to be under spotlight. No, but
Speaker 1: you also weren't supposed to be there out out there
Speaker 1: at night. I mean, they didn't lock it off, but
Speaker 1: you weren't supposed to be in there. Um, so there's
Speaker 1: probably a little lighting, but I don't I mean, there
Speaker 1: definitely weren't big spotlights down there that the you know,
Speaker 1: the people in the bridge could have looked down and said,
Speaker 1: oh my god, there's a person down there. I think
Speaker 1: that's a good question because you didn't always see this thing.
Speaker 1: Of Well, if the crew had been in the bridge
Speaker 1: have been paying attention, they would have seen her if
Speaker 1: she was in that air maybe actually not lit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if you've ever been in I
Speaker 1: mean think about you know, in your car when the
Speaker 1: dash lights are on, but you can't see your headlights.
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to see outside because you've got
Speaker 1: that in that illumination in front of you. Well exactly,
Speaker 1: that's why I would think that they would not want
Speaker 1: to have a lot of bright lights there. Of course,
Speaker 1: I don't know what they use. They might use night
Speaker 1: vision these days for all I know. But I mean,
Speaker 1: it's mostly just instruments, it's not it's mostly not you stand.
Speaker 1: You know, you're obviously not standing there with the wheel
Speaker 1: or whatever they call it. Um, you know, steering. That's
Speaker 1: that's the other thing people are accusing Disney and negligence.
Speaker 1: But I don't even know if i'm modern ships, if
Speaker 1: people are actually standing there staring out the window all
Speaker 1: the time and they do stand, they yeah, there are
Speaker 1: people in the bridge. But I was just about to yeah,
Speaker 1: I mentioned is that, Um, that's absolutely true. It's not
Speaker 1: as though you're standing there staring out into the open ocean.
Speaker 1: You're in there monitoring, But it is not your job
Speaker 1: to be looking down, you know, in the front of
Speaker 1: the ship seeing is there anything there? That's not the
Speaker 1: job anymore. Probably you probably are looking at your radar
Speaker 1: more than you're looking at your windows. And do you
Speaker 1: know how hard it is to stare ahead in the dark.
Speaker 1: It's hard trying to Yeah, it's not easy. I mean
Speaker 1: it's really easy to get distracted and look around because
Speaker 1: if you've just had a joint. After all, they didn't
Speaker 1: they do something about alcoholic They didn't say nothing about pot.
Speaker 1: Well you can't have it. That doesn't make it the
Speaker 1: most magical place on her. Yeah. So here's a list
Speaker 1: of reasons that I think Disney is not lying about
Speaker 1: a lot of things. Um point number one, They've paid
Speaker 1: me loads of money to say that they're not lying. Yes,
Speaker 1: this week's episode is not brought to you by It
Speaker 1: brought to you, Yeah, thanks to Disney. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I I don't think No. Point Number two is that
Speaker 1: no one in this Guardian article or anybody that I've
Speaker 1: seen from Disney Crew Cruise Lines who's been interviewed around
Speaker 1: this disappearance disputes that it was bad weather. And almost
Speaker 1: everybody who was interviewed agrees that you probably went off
Speaker 1: the crew pool and bow area, which means that Disney
Speaker 1: paid them a lot of money too. Yeah. The only
Speaker 1: thing that they're really disputing is that Disney probably knows
Speaker 1: more than they're leading on to which is definitely probably true.
Speaker 1: I would totally believe that Disney is not telling everything.
Speaker 1: I suspect they're keeping it mysterious. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: they probably have more CCTV of the foot of it
Speaker 1: than they are releasing for a few reasons. One is
Speaker 1: that they probably don't want to have to answer the
Speaker 1: hard questions like is that pool area safe for crew
Speaker 1: to be in? Is it safe and only certain conditions?
Speaker 1: And if it's safe and only certain conditions, why isn't
Speaker 1: there a fail safe to not allow people out there
Speaker 1: when it's bad conditions? And then you know, if the
Speaker 1: weather was bad and it was late h CCTV footage
Speaker 1: may not be good. They may not know. There are
Speaker 1: reports that Disney has sent one more piece of footage
Speaker 1: to like the FBI to be cleaned up, but there's
Speaker 1: never been any follow up on that um and so
Speaker 1: maybe someday we will see something, but I don't think so.
Speaker 1: So is that are you inferring with that? And correct
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong here? So I'm asking, are you
Speaker 1: inferring that what's going on is that there was a
Speaker 1: camera that in a dark in space caught something that
Speaker 1: could possibly have been I'm saying that, I'm saying that
Speaker 1: I am still not happy. I'm not satisfied with their
Speaker 1: not being at least one camera on the bow. And
Speaker 1: so if it's if there, I think there probably is
Speaker 1: at least one camera on the bow that probably did
Speaker 1: catch whatever happened on the bow that night. But since
Speaker 1: it was dark, it's not night vision, it's bad weather,
Speaker 1: it's probably not very useful. It's totally possible that they
Speaker 1: caught somebody walking out there and sitting down and getting
Speaker 1: swept off, And you know, that raises a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of other questions like why wasn't security watching that at
Speaker 1: that time? And why didn't somebody call that? But on
Speaker 1: top of that, I guess there's also a bit of
Speaker 1: a fear of if that's not Rebecca, did somebody else
Speaker 1: come with thing what happened? But the hard thing for
Speaker 1: me is that, Okay, let's say that there is a
Speaker 1: camera there, you can't immediately say why wasn't security watching
Speaker 1: Have you ever watched security footage cycle, it's always four
Speaker 1: panels on a single monitor. These four guys are probably
Speaker 1: watching a half dozen to a dozen monitors. And if
Speaker 1: things are easy to to overlook, especially when they're poorly lit.
Speaker 1: You go it, screwpool, it's black. Ignore that. You don't know.
Speaker 1: You're looking at something else, something blips by, you don't see.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I'm not justifying that anybody being lacks
Speaker 1: of days ago in their job. But I'm also saying
Speaker 1: it's it's the sure amount of content that they have
Speaker 1: to be looking at. Yeah, the one, the one liability thing.
Speaker 1: And even this, I would say is questionable. I guess
Speaker 1: they should have locked off the bout. I should have
Speaker 1: locked off the crew pool when the weather got bad.
Speaker 1: They should, you know, of course I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: believe this. If I was, you know, I mean, you
Speaker 1: could probably bring a successful lawsuit for something like that,
Speaker 1: for negligence. If I was on the jury, I would say,
Speaker 1: screw you. You know, Rebecca was twenty four years old.
Speaker 1: There was probably a sign there saying, hey, don't go
Speaker 1: out here in bad weather. She ignored it, you know,
Speaker 1: But I think there's more than it's common sense. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's that too, he don't go out here in bad weather.
Speaker 1: Hey it's bad weather. Maybe don't climb on that really
Speaker 1: really wet, slick thing. Don't do it. Why would you
Speaker 1: do that? But again, I was on a ship in
Speaker 1: really high winds, and what did my friends and I do.
Speaker 1: We went to the highest exposed deck we could and
Speaker 1: we we did the stupid thing. We weren't on the rail,
Speaker 1: but we just leaned into it and I had a
Speaker 1: friend it was at degree angle, like this is so
Speaker 1: freaking cool. Well, you know, again, I will say, I've
Speaker 1: been on cruise ship. I've been drunk on a cruise ship,
Speaker 1: and I can tell you that I had some close
Speaker 1: calls more than once. I I think, probably too close
Speaker 1: calls because as I was being drunk and dumb, and
Speaker 1: I was young, and actually, you know again, another reason
Speaker 1: that this case is close to me is that Rebecca
Speaker 1: is was the same age as me, you know, so
Speaker 1: we're making dumb, bad decisions on cruise ships at the
Speaker 1: same time. And um, I guess I got lucky because
Speaker 1: I wasn't making quite as bad decisions, but were in
Speaker 1: the in the right place at the wrong time. But
Speaker 1: people go overboard, or guess go overboard all the time,
Speaker 1: maybe twenty three a year on average, and that's just reported,
Speaker 1: and that's out of that that's out of like twelve
Speaker 1: million passengers a year. Right, But I think the estimation
Speaker 1: is that I think it's something like fifteen or I reported. Well.
Speaker 1: Part of the problem there is I know that some
Speaker 1: of the stuff that I've read is that a lot
Speaker 1: of the numbers that are reported our deaths on board,
Speaker 1: and there's this whole thing of cover up of guests
Speaker 1: on the ship. And it's not really mean. As we
Speaker 1: talked about a little bit before. It's not as wild
Speaker 1: and hidden, but they may get easily known. This person
Speaker 1: in Crazy Seas who was eighty years old happened to
Speaker 1: be on the stairs and fell down the stairs in
Speaker 1: Wild Seas and died. So yes, people die, but but
Speaker 1: they are kind of apparently brushing under the rug some
Speaker 1: of this stuff because Devon was in the minority, which
Speaker 1: is people from the United States on a ship like this.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm a bunch of the people that I
Speaker 1: met who they were from Slava Lady was from Slava countries,
Speaker 1: like this is the best way to make money. It's
Speaker 1: not that great of a thing, but I come here
Speaker 1: for nine months and I make two years worth of way.
Speaker 1: I think the statistic for the cruise line that I
Speaker 1: worked for is that of the employees were from the Philippines.
Speaker 1: UM and that's a hugely marginalized group and you know
Speaker 1: they weren't treated particularly well, and that's true. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think if if they're from the Philippines, are from
Speaker 1: a low income family, they go overboard, you probably just
Speaker 1: pay the family and don't ever report it, because why
Speaker 1: would you. I mean, yeah, again, this is where I
Speaker 1: sound like I'm defending Disney and I'm not trying. But
Speaker 1: you know what I understand why they're not saying this.
Speaker 1: You know who would love to have the luxury that
Speaker 1: the cruise lines have is the airline industry. We all
Speaker 1: know when a plane goes down, and a fewer planes
Speaker 1: go down now than they did ten years ago and
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. I mean, like the numbers of plane
Speaker 1: crashes are getting smaller and smaller and easy beats, he
Speaker 1: nothing events like scary things are now being lifted to
Speaker 1: the level of a plane crash. Cruise ships wish they
Speaker 1: are airlines, wish they had the luxury that the cruise
Speaker 1: ships to which is just I'm not talking about yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk about it. Well, one person goes overboard
Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, it's not huge news. It's like
Speaker 1: not like two hundred people in an airline are getting killed,
Speaker 1: right that that's much more. That's a better headline. Well
Speaker 1: and as maccaba as this sounds, um, there are people
Speaker 1: who go on cruises to die. I can see that.
Speaker 1: And that's when you know, that's one of the things.
Speaker 1: I know I've talked about this before, but that's one
Speaker 1: of the things that they will tell you when you
Speaker 1: are doing your training for cruise ship is that listen,
Speaker 1: people are going to go overboard because they want to,
Speaker 1: you know, they want to treat themselves to one last
Speaker 1: nice thing and then this is a nice place to
Speaker 1: just go overboard. And obviously that's not a fun fact,
Speaker 1: but it's a fact. So and well, and that's something
Speaker 1: we haven't talked about, which is the chances of being
Speaker 1: rescued once you go overboard are really so you have
Speaker 1: to land. I mean, it's how how far do you
Speaker 1: think it is ht above the water? Well, there's that
Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta land. You gotta land perfectly to
Speaker 1: not break something orno yourself. But you also have to
Speaker 1: land far enough away from the ship that you don't
Speaker 1: get sucked under it. Well, that's what that was gonna say.
Speaker 1: And this is what I think happened to Rebecca is
Speaker 1: she probably got sucked into the screws and chopped up
Speaker 1: a bit, you know, and that put a lot of
Speaker 1: blood into the water, which attracted the sharks who came
Speaker 1: over and sort of tidied things up. So not surprising
Speaker 1: they've never found a body. Yeah, let's just take sharks
Speaker 1: out of this. Let's just say that she went into
Speaker 1: the water and she drowned. She's gonna go under. I mean,
Speaker 1: even if the sharks don't get her, you know. Ever, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the body isn't going to just be floating on top
Speaker 1: indefinitely for somebody to find it. Not the way drownings work. Well,
Speaker 1: even if it did, it could be easy to overlook.
Speaker 1: But I really think that she got sucked into the screws,
Speaker 1: chopped up, and then eat my sharks. That's his theory.
Speaker 1: It's shark week. Yeah. My theory is that she Yeah,
Speaker 1: she went off the ship and I don't know what
Speaker 1: happened to her after that, but she's not alive. It's
Speaker 1: hard to imagine her going off the bow and not
Speaker 1: going into the screws. I agree with that, No, I
Speaker 1: absolutely agree with that, But I just don't want to
Speaker 1: think about it. Yeah, that's true. It's pretty that's pretty awful.
Speaker 1: So I guess whoa I was just in my theory
Speaker 1: is that she she peeved off Cinderella, who of course
Speaker 1: has the fairy Godmother in her back pocket, and that
Speaker 1: that carriage showed up and they shoved her in, and
Speaker 1: then the pumpkin became a pumpkin. I'm still going with
Speaker 1: Mickey because if you see any pictures of a flirtatious
Speaker 1: he's he's a womanizer. Oh yeah, well, but I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've noticed, this have been one of the
Speaker 1: main pictures you see of Rebecca. She's holding this cat.
Speaker 1: And you know, suppose Mickey saw that picture, well, and
Speaker 1: he wants to avenge all those relatives who I'm killed
Speaker 1: by cats, you know? And so yeah, So in a
Speaker 1: serious closing note, sorry, okay, I just I don't think
Speaker 1: that d c L is doing anything. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think they're withholding a lot of evidence, but I don't
Speaker 1: think they're lying. I don't think that they should be
Speaker 1: holding that information. But I agree that they're probably doing
Speaker 1: it for very selfish reasons. Well I don't even know
Speaker 1: if that I and I just I think it's totally
Speaker 1: reasonable to assume that everything else they have is totally unusable.
Speaker 1: And that's that's what I'm thinking. I think if they
Speaker 1: had any smoking guns, they'd probably be sure only to
Speaker 1: clear their name. Yeah, I mean yeah, I say say,
Speaker 1: obviously Disney themselves, as shareholders and board of directors of Disney,
Speaker 1: didn't commit any murders. Maybe an employee you did it,
Speaker 1: in which case, well, if they had evidence, they probably
Speaker 1: would turn it over. Yeah they would. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you knew about a murderer, would you would you just
Speaker 1: would you just keep it quiet, knowing the murder is
Speaker 1: going to go out and kill somebody else, maybe even
Speaker 1: you or somebody you know, It depends on who it was,
Speaker 1: that's true, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, that's why you don't
Speaker 1: ride The Parents of Caribbean. Yeah yeah, Johnny Depp, Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: it does have Johnny Depp. Now, um they in there.
Speaker 1: If he kills people constantly? Yeah, anything else? I think
Speaker 1: that's about it. Okay, Well, if you want to see
Speaker 1: any um of the research that we did, we'll put
Speaker 1: some links up on our website. That website is thinking
Speaker 1: Sideways podcast dot com. Uh, you can listen there or
Speaker 1: you're probably listening to us on like iTunes or Stitcher
Speaker 1: or any other streaming thing in this world. Google Plane
Speaker 1: now too. Yeah. So if you're on any of those
Speaker 1: and you haven't yet, please don't forget to give us
Speaker 1: a subscribe, and you know, rate and review us if
Speaker 1: you care to. You can find us on Facebook. We've
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Speaker 1: We're Thinking Sideways. We've got a subreddit, which is just
Speaker 1: our Thinking Sideways. You can email us if you have questions, concerns, suggestions,
Speaker 1: general praise. That's Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: It is. You're just shaking your head at me. It
Speaker 1: made me very nervous that I was saying something wrong.
Speaker 1: I was shaking my head because last week you told
Speaker 1: me we were using the r for Reddit anymore, and
Speaker 1: now you're doing it. So you're just giving me mixed signals.
Speaker 1: And that's true. You're confusing me. Reddit tends to do.
Speaker 1: You're making it worse right now, I know. Um. And
Speaker 1: other than that, we've got we've got the PayPal and
Speaker 1: the Patreon if you want to do a monetary donation
Speaker 1: to the podcast of any kind. The PayPal is good
Speaker 1: for one time donations. Patreon is good for recurring donations.
Speaker 1: You pledge a certain amount per episode, and you know
Speaker 1: you get charged for that certain amount of per episode. Um.
Speaker 1: We also have merch if you prefer that, and if
Speaker 1: you want to contribute some other way we do. We
Speaker 1: accept bear skins, ivory, anything like that. Not ivory. We
Speaker 1: won't take ivory. Okay, no ivory. Okay. What about draft belts, Yeah,
Speaker 1: raft belts only if they're antiques. Okay, the bears antiques,
Speaker 1: antiques in general. Yeah, I don't just don't like. I
Speaker 1: don't like. What about the umbrella holes? Okay, So all
Speaker 1: of that having been said, all of that having been said,
Speaker 1: we're going to get out of here, all right. Um
Speaker 1: so yeah, see you guys next week. Bye bye, bye
Speaker 1: boys and girls. Bywa