1 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. It would be hard to imagine 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: any relationship where trust is more important than the relationship 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: between the doctor and a patient. A three would not 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: stop kissing me, and finally my president and my proberts, 6 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: I was, I was Jephli, I was scared. There is 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: a problem among doctors who violate that trust, and violated 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: in ways that are absolutely alarming. He would put his 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: hand on my leg and literally start walking with his 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: hand up my leg. But so I've been sanitating and 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: he kissed me like nine times. But the problem is 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: that the system has massive gaps in it where doctors 13 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: can commit criminal acts against patients on a sometimes on 14 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: a serial basis, and authorities find out about it, yet 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: they're never turned over to police or prosecutors who could 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: hold them accountable. The hurt that doesn't heal, So think 17 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: about that just a moment, the hurt that doesn't heal, 18 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: you know. I learned that lesson when I would try 19 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: a case in Inner City Atlanta, and I would think 20 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: at the end of that trial that I would have 21 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: fixed it. But even when I would manage to get 22 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: a conviction out of a jury and the judge with sentence, 23 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: I'd turn around of the courtroom and everybody would still 24 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,199 Speaker 1: have a broken heart. And that's what I learned after 25 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: my very first jury trial. What about a hurt that 26 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: doesn't heal? Today, I'm talking about doctors, medical doctors that 27 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: we trust. You know, if I had a doctor on 28 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: the stand, I would say, please come in in your 29 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: scrubs or at least where your lab jacket. You are 30 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: a doctor and people look up to you, and when 31 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: you were on that stand, I want you to live 32 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: up to every expectation that they have. I Nancy Grace, 33 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 34 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: What about when that doctor molests his or her patient 35 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: out right sex molests his or her patient. When I 36 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 1: say the hurt that doesn't heal, I am referring to 37 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: an incredible investigation. I am referring to the Atlanta Journal 38 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: Constitution in depth, really undercover investigation of doctors who still 39 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: have their medical license that have molested their patients. And 40 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: there's no doubt about it that had happened with me. 41 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: An incredible person that I met in the flesh on 42 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 1: the doctor asset, Kevin Riley, the editor of the Atlanta 43 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: Journal Constitution. Also with me investigative reporter from the A 44 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: j C. Carrie Tea Garden and l A psychoanalyst Dr 45 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, also with me Alan Duke in l A, 46 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: Jackie Howard in Atlanta, and of course you joining us 47 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: here on Sirius XO. I want to first point out 48 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: that everyone has been reading about, believe it or not, 49 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: the US. This is not Russia. This is not some 50 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: other country far far away that we can go hi 51 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: that would never happen here. The Olympic official that molested 52 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: the stars are the girls gymnastics team, the Olympic coach. 53 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: Molestation that has turned everybody on their ear. I'm talking 54 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: about superstars claiming that this doctor has molested them. And 55 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: it's not just claim. He has been sentenced to sixty 56 00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: years a gymnastics doctor, a doctor who abused used patients, 57 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: first of all, gets sixty years for child porn. His 58 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: name Dr Lawrence Nasser. Now that certainly sent shot waves 59 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: through the world to gymnasts, famous gymnasts in tears describing 60 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: how the Olympic U S Olympic doctor molested them, and 61 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: the claims keep coming to Kevin Riley, a j C editor, 62 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: What led you to investigate medical doctors that molest their patients, Kevin, 63 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: One of our reporters, Danny Robbins, had done a story 64 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,559 Speaker 1: about a doctor who was in charge of the care 65 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: of women in Georgia's prisons, and as he was doing 66 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: that story and uncovered that that doctor appeared to be 67 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: responsible for some very serious issues and there were patients 68 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: who had died in my stars, Kevin, is this a 69 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: male doctor? Yes? Absolutely, Okay, right there, Okay, I don't 70 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: like it right there. I don't like a male doctor 71 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: being in a female prison. Not that I'm all sympathizing 72 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: with the female prisoners, because I know they all did 73 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: something most likely very bad to be in prison, not 74 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: the county g all awaiting trial, but convicted in a prison. 75 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: They don't have a choice of a doctor, you know, 76 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: so they're stuck with a male doctor. I don't like 77 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,559 Speaker 1: that to start with. But you know, I'm not saying 78 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: male doctors aren't great. I've got a male doctor that 79 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: I credit saving my life. But Kevin Riley, sorry, Carrie 80 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: tea Garden reporter, for all the times you wanted to 81 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: interrupt your boss. I'm getting to just do that today. Okay, 82 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: Kevin hop back in, Sorry about that. So there's a 83 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: male doctor and okay, Well what happened was, as the 84 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: reporter was reviewing all the medical records that led to 85 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: that story, he found out that in Georgia, eighty doctors 86 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: who had sexually abused patients, including patients that were undergoing 87 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: just routine exams and under anesthesia, still had their medical 88 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: licenses in Georgia. So he said, wow, we should look 89 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: into this. We should find out what happens to doctors 90 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: in Georgia and other states when they're accused of sexual offenses, 91 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 1: because how could these people maintain their licenses? And that's 92 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: really how we got started on the story, and it 93 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: led to a nationwide investigation where we looked at doctors 94 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: in every state across the country. So it all started 95 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: with Kevin Riley the Atlanta Journal Constitution. You can go online, 96 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: guys and see this. It's called the Hurt that Doesn't Heal, 97 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: and it's very disturbing if you got the guts to 98 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: look at it. And I'm a firm believer and not 99 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: turning away from the truth even if it doesn't go 100 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: down very easily. Kevin Riley says he found eighty doctors 101 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: right off the bat there were still treating patients that 102 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: had been accused of wrongdoing. We're talking about doctors, and 103 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: this is these are not just allegations. These are not 104 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: just allegations. Okay, these are complaints to medical boards and 105 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: more where the doctors are still out there practicing on patients, 106 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: lady patients and others. To carry teguard after he discovers 107 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: the reporter discovers just eight right off the top, Then 108 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: where do you go with this investigation? How did it 109 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: launch nationwide? And what did you find? Well, the first 110 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: thing we found is that states don't really keep track 111 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: of this. We thought we could go round every state 112 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: and find out, hey, how many of these doctors do 113 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: you have, you've done this and how have you handled them? No, 114 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: no one really bother to keep track of it. So 115 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: we decided we had to go in and do that 116 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: UM and that involves basically using a lot of computer 117 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: programming to get medical board orders from every state. We 118 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: looked at a hundred thousand medical board orders basically doctors 119 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: discipline for all sorts of things from malpractice to um 120 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: basically being drug dealers to sex abuse. We're able to 121 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: find three thousand cases um where doctors had been um 122 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: found in discipline for um sexually sexual misconducts UM and. 123 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: But the other thing we found, ANSI was that that's 124 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: probably just the tip of the iceberg. We found a 125 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: lot of states disciplined doctors for these things in private, 126 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: including here in Georgia. They treat it more like a 127 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: illness than a you know, than a actual crime. So 128 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: we found that, you know, and we found that of 129 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: those that were even actually publicly disciplined, most were still 130 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: allowed to keep practicing. Pauline Trump E Evans was just 131 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: twenty four living in Wisconsin, and she went to her 132 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: psychiatrists for several months, and she told the psychiatrist she 133 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: no longer needed treatment for anxiety. On her final visit, 134 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: her doctor, she says, offered her a drug to assist 135 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: her therapy. Instead, she says, the drug knocked her out 136 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: and her own doctor raped her. Her own doctor raped her. 137 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: To top it all off, she became pregnant. She went 138 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: to police. He was not charged, but gave up his license. 139 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: Five weeks later he got it back according to the 140 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: Medical Board minutes. She asked for the minutes and gave them. 141 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: To the a j C. Atlanta Journal Constitution Kerry T. Garden, 142 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: what happened to the doctor that reportedly raped Pauline trump 143 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: E Evans after giving her a knockout drug. Well, you 144 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: know that was interesting because she reached out to us 145 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: after the theories first started. I will never forget getting 146 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: an email from her. Like many people we heard from 147 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: after that, it was not unusual at all for even 148 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: in cases m involving rape that happened in exam rooms 149 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: that UM, doctors could get their license back. It's not unusual, UM, 150 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: and we'd see sometimes people would under pressure voluntarily surrender 151 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: their license. But you know, you would think in a 152 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: case of rape, someone would probably serve time or at 153 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: least based at criminal allegation. But in many states, UM, 154 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to The medical board doesn't 155 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: is under no obbligation to even report the police when 156 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: a crime is reported to them. That's one of many 157 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: things that we found out and just overwhelmed that because 158 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: you're a medical doctor, you can get away with us. 159 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: To Kevin Riley, the editor of the Atlanta Journal Constitution, 160 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:27,560 Speaker 1: who as commission an incredible investigation of doctors all across 161 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: the country, that have been charged with molesting their patients 162 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: and are still practicing today. Kevin, we discussed one case 163 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: where a doctor actually drugged lollipops and gave them to 164 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: his child patients and then molested them, even on video. 165 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, it's important to remember something that that 166 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: Kerry mentioned, which is these are crimes, but under a 167 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: lot of the practices or medical boards across the country, 168 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,599 Speaker 1: they're never reported to police. That is astounding because in 169 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:08,599 Speaker 1: any other profession, teaching and other professions, you would immediately 170 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: be suspended, potentially lose your license, not to mention charge 171 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: with a crime that does not happen to doctors. And 172 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: that is the big problem here. The other thing is 173 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,719 Speaker 1: what it does to patients when that trust and the 174 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: doctor is violated. I mean, is there any more important 175 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: intimate trusting relationship than what you have with your doctor 176 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: and then it's violated. People vulnerable, Vulnerable people are taking 177 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: advantage of and they feel like they have nowhere to turn. 178 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things that we have done 179 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: on our website, my ac dot com is given a 180 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: list of resources for people. If this happens to someone, 181 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: what can you do? What are the steps that you 182 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: can take. And that's really important because when when we 183 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: heard from victims after we published this series, one of 184 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: the things we heard very consistently was simply, thank you. 185 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: I thought I was all alone. I thought I was 186 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: the only person that's happened to her. I am reading 187 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: an article and what I have read is so disturbing, 188 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: and it starts with a quote, what the hell are 189 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: you doing, bastard. His patient's mother screamed when she found Dr. 190 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: Bradley with his hand and her daughter's diaper and following 191 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 1: her out to the parking lot. The doctor insisted she 192 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: the mom didn't see what she thought she saw, and 193 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: when police were called by the mom, he told police 194 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: that the mom was trying to coerce money out of him. Okay, 195 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: they decided that the mom, who was young and poor 196 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: and unmarried, uh was trying to get money from the doctor. 197 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: That nobody believed the woman. The case was closed. That doctor. 198 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: Earl Bradley went on to become one of the nation's 199 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: most prolific sex predators. For over fifteen years, he raped, 200 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: sawt of mize and molested pediatric patients, child patients, and 201 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: even recorded thirteen hours of sex assaults on children sometimes 202 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: so violent he had to resuscitate the child victims. He 203 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: managed to escape gossip investigators, colleagues that would call him 204 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: openly the pedophile pediatrician, and before he finally went to jail, 205 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: he victimized that we know of twelve hundred children, their 206 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 1: average age was three The youngest that we know of 207 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: was three months old. Carry Tea Garden joining me, investigative 208 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: reporter for the Atlanta Journal constitutions. Her boss, Kevin Riley, 209 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: the editor of the a j C, sent her on 210 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: a mission to investigate uncover doctors that molest their patients. 211 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: Carry Tea Garden. I'm sure you're familiar with the case 212 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: of Dr Bradley that I just described. He actually even 213 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: drugged lollipops to make the children pass out. Through interviews, 214 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: police reports, files records, the a j C Atlanta Journal 215 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: Constitution documented eight instances where Bradley was a subject of accusations, 216 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: and each time nothing happened and he avoided punishment. Carrie Teagard, 217 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: let's talk about Bradley for just one moment. Bradley is 218 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 1: a really disturbing case, um, but I mean, just the idea, 219 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: you know that the pediatrician would do that to children 220 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: so young. It's just really hard for anybody to even 221 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: believe that a doctor would do that, right. Um. And 222 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: one thing we really took away from Bradley is that 223 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: there were all these chances to stop him. You know, 224 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: there were nurses who came forward that says, look, he 225 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: looks for any excuse to um catheterize the little girls, 226 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: you know, when it's not necessary, and things like that 227 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: where it was just, you know, clear that it wasn't appropriate. 228 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: He would also like take It would be like at 229 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: the end of appointment, he would take the children in 230 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: another room and say, oh, I'm taking them to get 231 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: their little toy, you know, um. And so the parents 232 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: would be like, oh, okay, that's so nice, you know um. 233 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: And and even with you just see over and over again, 234 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: it just wasn't believed, right. I mean, all those times 235 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: when he could have been stopped. You know what's interesting 236 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: about that is the that case is that the only 237 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: reason he probably isn't practicing today and it's in prison, 238 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: is that he videotaped himself doing these acts for hours, 239 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: and so that's where they had the evidence. I mean, 240 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: even some cops dismissed it early on, as you mentioned 241 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: um nancy, but then later on when he was being investigated, 242 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: they just found it was very hard to make the 243 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: case because, um, as you know, of a three year 244 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: old victim is not credible, right, I mean, that's just 245 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: a difficult case to make. And um, this happened in Delaware, 246 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: which went to great extent to really look at, you know, 247 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: how did this happen. And as a result, they ended 248 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: up passing what we believed and rated them as having 249 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: the best patient protection laws in the country on this 250 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: kind of thing, only because they saw what could happen. 251 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: I mean, twelve children. It's just hard to even believe that. 252 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: I know, it's just so overwhelming that we know of 253 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: twelve hundred and no one would listen to Dr Bethany Marshall, 254 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: li psychoanalyst. You know. Um, for instance, when children come 255 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: to spend the night in our house, or I'm with 256 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: children and we're all changing to go to gym class 257 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: or something, I just naturally turned away. I don't want 258 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: to look at them changing clothes. I want them to 259 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: go in the bathroom and show it's instinctive. I don't 260 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: really think it through, and I don't even put two 261 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: little girls in the same bathroom unless they run in 262 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: and out on their own. I just don't even it's 263 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: it's just natural. I don't think. I don't want to 264 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: see them without their clothes on, you know, I I don't. 265 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: I don't understand this, Dr Bethany, and I don't understand 266 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: why parents would leave their child alone with a doctor. 267 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: But you know what, I trust my doctors. I love 268 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: my doctors. But Dr Bethany, can I tell you something. 269 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: We had a doctor that everybody in my neighborhood went 270 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: to when we were little, and all the girls would 271 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: talk about it, and to this day we still talk 272 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: about it. How he would comment on your body, make 273 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: little comments during an unnecessary pelvic exam. We all laugh 274 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: about it now, but when I really think about it, 275 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: I don't laugh. Dr Bethany. It's true, Nancy. I had 276 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: a doctor like that too when I was a little girl, 277 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: and he looked at me inappropriately, never really touched or 278 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: fondled it. I think, back in that era where our 279 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: consciousness wasn't raised, we just thought of these men as 280 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: perverts or just sort of mildly crossing the line. But 281 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,959 Speaker 1: I shut her now to think what kind of victims 282 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: are out there? You know what you're saying about children 283 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: in your house. You know because the twins are ten, right, 284 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: is that how old they are that at that age 285 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: a child has a sense of privacy, doesn't want to 286 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: be exposed, doesn't want adults to see them without their 287 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: clothes on. But they're not going to say it to you. 288 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: You just have to be sensitive as an adult to 289 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,719 Speaker 1: give them their privacy. One of the things about this 290 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: pedophile doctor that you're talking about is that the ascending 291 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 1: pattern was so prolific. And we know about sex predators 292 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: that they gravitate towards positions that are going to allow 293 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: them to have access to their victims. And in these 294 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: case cases, child victims obviously cannot speak up for themselves. 295 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: So what's going to happen after a sex assault is 296 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: that they're going to be symptomatic. They may cry a lot, withdraw, 297 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: have problems, um with bed, wedding, um, behavioral problems. But 298 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: if the parents don't know what they're looking for, the 299 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: parents don't know how to interpret the symptoms. I think 300 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: the best policy for parents is to never leave a 301 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: child alone with anybody. Do not leave a three year 302 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: old alone with the pediatrician, no matter what listening to 303 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Guys, I would never have known the extent 304 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: of doctors whom the less medical doctors if it had 305 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: not been for the Atlanta Journal Constitution, who has done 306 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: an extensive nationwide investigation to find this out. Kevin Riley 307 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: with me, the editor of the a j C. Also 308 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: with me, investigative reporter with the a j C, Carrie 309 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: Tea Garden. You can read and hear all of this 310 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: in the Atlanta Journal Constitution online. I want to pause 311 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: and thank not only you for joining me here, joining 312 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: us here, but I want to thank our partners, our partners, 313 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: they may our shining a light on this incredible investigation 314 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: by the a j C. Today. One of our awesome 315 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: partners link a k C. Now, you know I love 316 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: my pets, and currently in our house right now, we 317 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: have six pets, and Lucy's threatening to get another guinea pig. Okay, 318 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: you know guinea pigs. They do nothing but eating poop 319 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: and sit there and be cute all day. But I 320 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 1: have a dog, my little mutt, fat Boy. And if 321 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: you're like me, you don't want to leave your pet 322 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 1: out of the holiday fund, the so called must have 323 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: gift for dogs and their owners. Is a link a 324 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: k C smart caller. It's backed by the American Kennel Club. 325 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: The link a k C caller Catch this. 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Thank you for being our partner here today. 355 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: And now back to the a j C investigation of 356 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: medical doctors accused and even found guilty of molesting their patients, 357 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: specifically women and children, and they keep practicing medicine. Yeah right, 358 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: you could be crawling up on somebody's examination table that's 359 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: been molesting people. That's not a happy thought. Kevin Riley, 360 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: a j C editor. I know it's gonna be hard 361 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: to pick, but which of these cases destroyed? I think 362 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: that uh really got a lot of attention, or I 363 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: think grabbed reader's attention. Was we have the story of 364 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: one woman who describes a doctor basically assaulting and molesting 365 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: her and she came out of the influence of anesthesia 366 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: after a procedure, and he told her that this was 367 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: just how they helped her come out of the anesthesia. 368 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: She's become. She was a big voice in our story. 369 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: She was a big she's a big voice of dealing 370 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: with this issue. But the reason that example stands out 371 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 1: is it shows how vulnerable a patient can be because 372 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: you have to trust your doctor if you're going to 373 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: have a procedure and you need to be debated somehow. 374 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 1: I mean, who's there to protect you if if doctors 375 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: are allowed to behave this way. Listen to this. I 376 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: remember him kissing me on the lips and then manipulating, 377 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: physically manipulating my hand to basically rub him. And he 378 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: told me at that time, when I was very hazy, Um, 379 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: he said, it's okay, this is just how we wake 380 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: you up. I felt ashamed myself, UM, because I thought, 381 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: if it was a dream, how disgusting. Why would my 382 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 1: mind be be giving me that information when I was 383 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: unconscious or very heavily sedated. And because I have worked 384 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: in hospitals before, I assumed that it couldn't happen. That 385 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: is from the a j C Atlanta Journal Constitution to 386 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: carry T Guarden joining us Atlanta Journal Constitution investigative reporter. 387 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: Am I wrong, but I thought there was supposed to 388 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: be a nurse present in an examination room. That's correct. 389 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: It's not required in every stage, but um, it is 390 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: definitely recommended it and in all states, and is required 391 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: in many, including Georgia, where if you're having an intimate 392 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: exam there's has to be a second person there. But 393 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: that's often a red flag if if a doctor isn't 394 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 1: doing that. Um, that's the cause for concern because we 395 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: saw a lot of things happen in those situations. A 396 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: License to Betray that's the title of one part of 397 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: the series in the a j C about a broken 398 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: system that forgives doctors that sexually abuse in every state 399 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: and uh. One of the doctors that Carrie te Garden 400 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: writes about is from Kentucky. In Kentucky, Dr Alure was 401 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: examining and in fake and infection on a patient's abdomen. 402 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: When he the whole thing went sideways, he told the 403 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: patient she had sexy underwear. Well, I'm not really in 404 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: danger of that because Okay, Jackie's laughing because the twins say, mom, 405 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: please buy somedy underwear. I'm like, I'm not getting any 406 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: underwear until you too graduate from graduate school okay, and 407 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: I finished helping pay for your wedding. Okay, So then 408 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: mommy will get a new pair of underwear at Target. Okay. 409 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: And until then, it's not happening. But wait a minute. 410 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 1: The doctor, on a serious note, tells the patient she 411 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: has sexy underwear. Well at that minute, right there, I 412 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: would sit up and go what what what did you say? 413 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: But listen to this. Then the doctor places his mouth 414 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: on her genitals and says, it was so beautiful I 415 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: couldn't resist. Okay, Um, Carrie tea garden? Have I lost 416 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: my mind? Or did this really happen? It really happened. 417 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: She did go to the police and UM, you know, 418 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: the way these cases are most often successfully prosecuted as 419 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: if they get the doctor, the patient to get friend 420 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: the doctor, you know, on a recorded line, and you 421 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: know he admitted it um to her that way, and 422 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: so they were able to pursue the case. But the 423 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: irony is that um, he was allowed to keep practicing UM. 424 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: And there was a lot more to the case. He 425 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: had other issues here with prescribing and malpractice. UM. But 426 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: what we found out in some states, you know, the 427 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: laws are kind of stacked in favor of the doctors. 428 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: It can be hard even when a medical board wants 429 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: to revoke a license um to do it or to 430 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: make it last for very long. And so in that case, 431 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: you know, they put him under some restrictions. We'll see that, 432 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: but he's still practicing. He's still practicing. There is another 433 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: doctor featured in the Atlanta Journal Constitution, a doctor that 434 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: was accused of molesting a little boy years ago in Boston. 435 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: And when he would hear his name called, the little 436 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: boy in the waiting room would look up at his 437 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 1: mom and say, I'm not going in. I'm not going in, 438 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: And she couldn't understand, as she said, you're here to 439 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: see Dr Rick, the friendly resident in training that gave 440 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: him so much attention when he was hospitalized, who gave 441 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: him a football jersey, a football as presence. And I'm 442 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: I'm quoting straight from an investigation, an investigational piece in 443 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: the a j C. The boy says, no, he makes 444 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: me get naked and it hurts. This is recalled by 445 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: a man now grown and his mother as he interviewed 446 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: with the Atlanta Journal Constitution. That doctor, a doctor Richard Bonner, 447 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: is a pediatric and enthusiologist, and just recently the family 448 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: publicly accused him of child molestation and filed a lawsuit 449 00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: that he that he molested a child on the examination table. Now, 450 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: let me point out that the doctor has denied the 451 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: accusations completely, totally denied them and the investigations, Kevin Riley, 452 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: do the doctors typically deny the accusation. Not only that, 453 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: but we actually have a piece on our website where 454 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: we look at the excuses that doctors offered, and among 455 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: the highlights include that one one doctor who who was 456 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: accused of blessing a patient said he could see it 457 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: in her eyes that the patient wanted to have sex 458 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: with him. Another doctor convinced a doctor that have a 459 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: patient that having sex with him was a therapeutic technique 460 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: that he used. And others would just offer excuses like 461 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: they were under a lot of stress, or a woman 462 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: had control over them, or they just you know, made 463 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: a little mistake. And it's important to remember in all 464 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: of this, and if people read our series, they'll see 465 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: and Carry's writing that we describe this stuff in blunt terms. 466 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: I mean people like to use terms like molestation or 467 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: sexual misconduct. This is assault, and this is rape, and 468 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: this is a crime and there are no excuses for it. 469 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: And people may deny it, but in many cases the 470 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: proof is just overwhelming. What is lacking is the commitment 471 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: of medical boards to really take this issue on, and 472 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: also this problem with people being afraid to confront that 473 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: martial uh L a psychoanalyst joining me. The mother, the 474 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: mother is racked with guilt. She said that she is 475 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,239 Speaker 1: overcome with guilt, that she just was so focused on 476 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: getting her son well, she didn't understand what was happening. 477 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: Can you imagine a mother's guilt of this happening. I 478 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: can't imagine, because, as we so frequently talk about on 479 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: your show, a mother's job is to protect their child, right, 480 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: and when a predator is able to get in and 481 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: sort of pierce the boundary of protectiveness that a mother 482 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: has towards a child, it's that Well, it's interesting because 483 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: then not only is the child traumatized, but the mother's 484 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: traumatized too. I was I was reading through the literature 485 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: on post traumatic stress disorder this morning before the show, 486 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: just in preparation and in the d s M. One 487 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: of the criteria for post traumatic stress disorder is witnessing 488 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: another person going through a traumatic event. So you don't 489 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: even have to be the person who's molested. You can 490 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: be the parent or or a sibling, and then you 491 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: either witness it or there's the ripple effect of that 492 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: patient's trauma, and you know something you will still doubt 493 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: about all these stories. I think Carrie's reporting is so 494 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: wonderful because the patients who were molested talk about the 495 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: mistrust of relationships throughout the lifespan. That's one thing that's 496 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: that really struck me. Avoidance of medical care because they 497 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: didn't trust doctors. And then the one patient who was 498 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: impregnated and then had to give the child up for 499 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: adoption or decided to do that, talks about the fact 500 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: that so much of her energy and creativity went through 501 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: went towards managing the trauma, and that she tried to 502 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: imagine that if she hadn't been molested by her doctor, 503 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: where else could she have put that energy? And I 504 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: thought that was a really good point. That all of 505 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: these victims now spent enormous amounts of time managing the 506 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: trauma that the fallout from these events in their life, 507 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: and thus they their energy is not freed up to 508 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: make contributions towards society in other ways. So it's just 509 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: one more evidence of the ripple effect of these um 510 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: sex predators. I want you to hear what an undercover 511 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: agent said who had to pose as a patient to 512 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: try to get evidence against the doctor that investigators believe 513 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: abused at least sexually abused at least eighty patients. Listen. 514 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: I went over there about three o'clock in the afternoon 515 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: and I asked about having an appointment with him for hypnosis, 516 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: and he came out front and he literally looked me 517 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: up and down. He I mean, he scanned me up 518 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: and down with his eyes and then told me to 519 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: come back that night at nine o'clock. I had never 520 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: in my life had a doctor tell me to come 521 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: in at nine o'clock at night that evening. When we 522 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: went back, um, of course, there were other agents with me, 523 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: and I was wired too, And when I went back, 524 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: there were no cars in the parking lot whatsoever. There 525 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: was only one light on in the building. And when 526 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: I opened up the door and went in, he was 527 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: waiting on me at the front desk. Took me back 528 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: to the back room where an examining room, and one 529 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: of the first things that I had noticed was that 530 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: there were locks on the doors of each of the 531 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: examining rooms. Or when I went into the exam room, 532 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: he had one of those little roll around trades and 533 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: there were two syringes on it, and we later found 534 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: out when that was sent to the lab that one 535 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: was a drug that would have knocked me out, another 536 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: was a drug that would have brought me back. Because 537 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: he wasn't enthusiologist, so I commented on the syringes to 538 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: make them know that there were there were drugs there, 539 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: and he said, well, we may not need those. He 540 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 1: had me get up on the table and he started 541 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: with his hypnosis thing, and as soon as he thought 542 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: I was hypnotized, the first words out of his mouth 543 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: he wanted to know how old was I the first 544 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,919 Speaker 1: time I had sex? And what was the person's name 545 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: that I had sex with? And so when I answered 546 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: his questions, he said, when you wake up and you 547 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: look at me, you're going to think that I am 548 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: the first person you ever had sex, and you're gonna 549 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: want me. You're gonna want to be with me, and 550 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: he would put his hand end on my leg and 551 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: literally start walking with his hand up my leg beside 552 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: the exam table. And he kissed me like nine times 553 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: while we were in there, and each time he did this, 554 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,720 Speaker 1: I would say, you kissed me, you kissed me, because 555 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: I wanted the guys outside to understand what was going 556 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: on too, And I set up and I kept pretending 557 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 1: that I was going in and out of hypnosis and 558 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: that he couldn't keep me hypnotized, and he was getting 559 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,399 Speaker 1: frustrated with that. He didn't like that. Then he put 560 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: his hand on my leg and he ran his hand 561 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: all the way up under my skirt and he ran 562 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: it between my legs. And as soon as he did that, 563 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: I had him for sexual battery and I knew that, 564 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: and so there was no doubt in my mind that 565 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,720 Speaker 1: he was doing the things that we had been told 566 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 1: that he was doing. And when they brought him in, 567 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: he did not realize, you know, why he was being 568 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: arrested at that point, he didn't realize it had to 569 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: do with me. Um. I was in the other room 570 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: and when I walked in, UM, the look on his face, 571 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: I mean, it was just he was. He had dark 572 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: skin and he literally turned white when he realized, you know, 573 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: what was going on. After he was arrested. It was 574 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 1: a newspaper article as well as there's some thing's done 575 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 1: on TV about it. And we just ask any woman 576 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 1: who had ever had a problem with him, you know, 577 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: if they had anything they wanted to tell us, to 578 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: please come forward. And we had eighty women that came forward. 579 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: They were anywhere from sixteen years old up until their sixties. 580 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,399 Speaker 1: In the end, after the trial was over, he got 581 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: fifty years. That is from the undercover investigation that has 582 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:39,399 Speaker 1: been exposed by the Atlanta Journal Constitution. And there are 583 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: so many more cases. I want to pause and thank 584 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: our partner making our serious X program possible as we 585 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: highlight this extensive nationwide investigation of doctors that have molested, rate, 586 00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 1: abused their patients and are still practicing. Now, why of 587 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: our awesome partners, super Beats. 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Call eight hundred five one six zero 614 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,280 Speaker 1: six eight three or go to Nancy's beats dot com 615 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,760 Speaker 1: Today super Beats, thank you for being our partner today 616 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 1: as we explore one of the most damning investigative reports 617 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 1: I have ever seen. This conducted by the Atlanta Journal 618 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: Constitution and with me, the editor of the a j S. 619 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 1: See Kevin Riley. Kevin, this piece that you published in 620 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,279 Speaker 1: the a j C. And it's online. That's where I'm 621 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: getting it. I'm reading it bit by bit online. There's 622 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,320 Speaker 1: so many layers to it. How big is the piece? 623 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: How many clicks do I have to read? You know, Nancy, 624 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: we've probably got this covered as well as uh it 625 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: possibly could be. I think the best parts of the investigation, though, 626 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 1: are the very personal stories you will find from women 627 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: who decided that they wanted their stories known so that 628 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: this thing would not happen to other people. In that 629 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: case you just described where the Georgia Bureau inst of 630 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: Investigation agent went undercover. They eventually identified about eighty victims 631 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: from the age of sixteen to sixty and and the 632 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: agent even even described this doctor's practice. She said it 633 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: was like an organized rape center. Whit whit whit white, white, white, 634 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: white white. Kevin Riley, the editor of the a j 635 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: C along with carry T Garden and Atlanta Journal Constitution 636 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: Investigative Report. Let I'm drinking from the fire hydrant here. 637 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: It's just so much. I just kind of slowed down 638 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: a moment, you know, Kevin. When I would prosecute, let's 639 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: just say a murder case, but every case that involved 640 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,680 Speaker 1: an expert, I would have to go to the morgue, 641 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: sit down with the doctor that did the emmy, and 642 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,279 Speaker 1: go through the autopsy report, which sometimes could be you know, 643 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 1: seven to twenty pages long. I would have to go 644 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,359 Speaker 1: through every single line, sometimes each word if they were 645 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,560 Speaker 1: medical terms, so I could understand it. And in the 646 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 1: columns I would book brief. That's what we did in 647 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: law school. Very often. Instead of writing a full brief, 648 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: you'd booked brief in the columns, the PSI columns of 649 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: your case that you were reading. I'd book brief the 650 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: autopsy so I could break it down and understand it 651 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: in simple terms. Now you just said that this doctor's 652 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,280 Speaker 1: practnice was called what the agent who did that undercover 653 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: work called it? An organized center and organized rape center. 654 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,399 Speaker 1: You know what I'm thinking about, Carrie t. Garden, all 655 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: the rapes and the child listations that I prosecuted him. 656 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's still if I let my mind go there, 657 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,759 Speaker 1: it still makes me just break down and cry. What 658 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: these victims went through and what they will go through 659 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: the rest of their lives. I mean, I'm a crime 660 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: victim of violent crime, and I know it affected the 661 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,280 Speaker 1: rest of my life. You know. Carry after my fiancee 662 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,320 Speaker 1: was murdered, it took me. I was thirty years before 663 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: I could bring myself to try to make a full on, 664 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 1: real commitment because in my mind it would just all 665 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: blow up on me and everything would go sideways and 666 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 1: my whole world would get torn apart, and just frankly, 667 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: I just didn't want a pain. And I almost lost 668 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: the chance to have children because of my delay. That 669 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: that's just one example, But these ladies and children that 670 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: were raped and sodomized the rest of their lives, they 671 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: go through a feeling of helplessness. They couldn't fight back, 672 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 1: they were victimized, and messes up all their relationships from 673 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 1: then on. Carrie, and then to top it all off, 674 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: in these cases that you investigated with the A j. C. 675 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: It was a person that everybody respects, nobody wants to 676 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: believe them. They believed the doctor. One thing that was 677 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:41,399 Speaker 1: UM really troubling UM was how often the victims were 678 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:46,279 Speaker 1: already vulnerable or had been damaged previously, and then some 679 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: of these doctors would capitalize on that. UM. This one 680 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,839 Speaker 1: case that always stuck with me. We never even used 681 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: this in the story. We had so many cases, you know, 682 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: there were so many that we couldn't even include. But 683 00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: it was a a doctor who who knew his patient 684 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 1: had been sexually abused by her father as a child. 685 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: And doctors kind of know stuff about you because you 686 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: have to tell him about yourself and what you're dealing with. 687 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: Is the ones who go off the rails will use that. 688 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,239 Speaker 1: And so he um got her into a sexual relationship 689 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 1: with him, and during relations would say to her, Oh, 690 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: is this how it was with your father? You know? 691 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: Is this what you did with your father? Which I 692 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: thought was just so um terrible And in the in 693 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: the real heavy part of the reporting for this project, 694 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 1: there were a group of us who did nothing all 695 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:42,320 Speaker 1: day every day for weeks but read these cases and UM, 696 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 1: it was very troubling. I think that's the was the 697 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,440 Speaker 1: most important part of the series where we read cases 698 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,880 Speaker 1: hours after hours every day UM, because it really told 699 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,319 Speaker 1: us how bad it could get and then what the 700 00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 1: response would be. And that doctor I just talked about 701 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,279 Speaker 1: um when he was reported they the board viewed it 702 00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: that he had an illness issue. He was sent off 703 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,799 Speaker 1: to kind of a recovery center to do yoga and 704 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: art so he could um develop a sense of empathy 705 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 1: and so he could eventually go back to practice yoga 706 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 1: and art. Dr Bethany Marshall his sorry, Fray Murk needs 707 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: to be in jail with the other rapist. Absolutely, yoga 708 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: and art. I think the problem is and and this 709 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:30,840 Speaker 1: is something that we've been talking about lately on your show, 710 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 1: is that this is not just sexual predation. It's not 711 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: just sexual harassment. It is rape. It's a crime. You 712 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,799 Speaker 1: don't you know, if someone robs a bank, do you 713 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 1: try to rehabilitate them through yoga and art? Absolutely not. 714 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 1: These crimes have to fall into the same category. The 715 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:51,240 Speaker 1: a j C. Atlanta Journal Constitution obtained and analyzed over 716 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:58,800 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand, one hundred thousand disciplinary orders against doctors 717 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 1: and among those identified over three thousand doctors sanctioned after 718 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,359 Speaker 1: being accused of sex misconduct, and what that means sex 719 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: misconduct is sodomy, rape, sex assault. And thousands of those 720 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:19,280 Speaker 1: doctors had violations involving their own patients. Half of those 721 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 1: still have medical licenses to day, half of them still 722 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: are practicing, over half of them. Why that's my question, 723 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: Why are they licensed to rape and get away with it? 724 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: Listen to this Terriba Trees and her husband and just 725 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,840 Speaker 1: moved to Louisville a few months prior to this happening. 726 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,560 Speaker 1: She has a degenerative bone disease, and she had been 727 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:54,000 Speaker 1: referred to Kasvin, to their doctor, and she was in 728 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,239 Speaker 1: the exam room. Sounds sounds like it wasn't but a 729 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: few minutes before he he forced himself on her. Not 730 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: only a surgery. I had had a fall first of January, 731 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: so I had a fract shirt right knee at a 732 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: fract shirt clavital, and my left shoulder was already collapsed completely. 733 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: I needed it replaced, it was collapsed. So I was 734 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,120 Speaker 1: as cruciating pain from all of that, trying to find 735 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,879 Speaker 1: him off and his whole body weight on me. There 736 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,480 Speaker 1: was really much I could do other than screen for help, 737 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: which you know, no one came, so he would continue 738 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:34,880 Speaker 1: to kiss me. Um, he ropped my bra uh. Particularly 739 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:41,879 Speaker 1: he was kissing my my left breast A lot after 740 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:47,280 Speaker 1: he would not stop kissing me and finally my my 741 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: my breast and my braw ribs. I was I was terrified. 742 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 1: I was pretty scared. I was actually really scared at 743 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,279 Speaker 1: that point. I guess he found a soft place in 744 00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:01,320 Speaker 1: his heart. I don't know that, but he he allowed 745 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,440 Speaker 1: me to adjust myself. That's when I realized dyes c 746 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:10,359 Speaker 1: he he was playing with himself as well as and masturbating. 747 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,440 Speaker 1: This may be hard to believe, but she was actually 748 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 1: thinking on her feet in the moment right after this 749 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 1: happened and was able to start collecting DNA evidence like tissues. 750 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,759 Speaker 1: He was wiping himself off with a hundred dollar bill 751 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:22,719 Speaker 1: he threw at or even had some DNA on it. 752 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,520 Speaker 1: And she didn't know it at the time, but she 753 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,320 Speaker 1: even had DNA evidence on her sweatshirt. Because I was 754 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 1: drug and I was date raped when I was nineteen 755 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 1: years old, I wasn't able to report it immediately. I 756 00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,080 Speaker 1: was I was out of it. I guess there are 757 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,799 Speaker 1: there are no evidence and I so good. I made 758 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,239 Speaker 1: him know if I promised no, I said, if it 759 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,840 Speaker 1: ever happens to me again, I will not with the 760 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:45,480 Speaker 1: sound of a bit walk away. I will not let 761 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,320 Speaker 1: him get away with it. That's what was going with 762 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,400 Speaker 1: in my mind, that I'm not I've just been essentially assausted. 763 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,239 Speaker 1: I'm not leaving here unleissaf I. She was convinced that 764 00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:55,799 Speaker 1: it was not the first time he'd ever done it, 765 00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,720 Speaker 1: that it had to be something he'd done, uh several 766 00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 1: times before, and that's why she decided to go on 767 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,160 Speaker 1: the on the news a couple of days later, you know, 768 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: on the advice of her private attorney, and make a 769 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,880 Speaker 1: police for other people to come forward, and sure enough, uh, 770 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:15,600 Speaker 1: some did. That is from the investigative piece by the 771 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:20,480 Speaker 1: Atlanta Journal and Constitution that encompasses all fifty states. This 772 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:26,000 Speaker 1: is your state. Your state is included in this Atlanta 773 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:31,240 Speaker 1: Journal Constitution piece. So, Kevin Riley, you're the editor, tell 774 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:35,479 Speaker 1: me what do you do if you think this has 775 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:40,080 Speaker 1: happened to you or your child. Well, the first thing 776 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,720 Speaker 1: to remember, as we've said, is it is a crime. 777 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,960 Speaker 1: You can go to the police and report this. And again, 778 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,839 Speaker 1: a lot of these patients are vulnerable people. They are 779 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:55,520 Speaker 1: making accusations against a doctor who's probably a prominent person 780 00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,400 Speaker 1: in that community. But it is important that people know 781 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: they can go to the police, they can report it 782 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,239 Speaker 1: to the state Medical Board, if it happens at a 783 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,040 Speaker 1: hospital or a clinic or with a doctor affiliated with 784 00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:11,400 Speaker 1: such a place. They can also go to those organizations, 785 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,280 Speaker 1: and they're also a number of advocacy organizations that people 786 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,080 Speaker 1: can go to. All of these resources where patients are 787 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,120 Speaker 1: listed at our website my avac dot com. So if 788 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,640 Speaker 1: someone's listening to this and it's happened to them and 789 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: they're not sure what to do, those resources are available 790 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,960 Speaker 1: at our website. But the most important thing for people 791 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,760 Speaker 1: to know is if it feels like they're all alone 792 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,760 Speaker 1: and they believe this only happened to them, they're almost 793 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,319 Speaker 1: certainly going to find out that predator doctors have a 794 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,880 Speaker 1: lot of victims, and once someone comes forward, other people 795 00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,160 Speaker 1: often do. It reminds me of the current Harvey Weinstein 796 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,760 Speaker 1: thing UH investigation, because once one person had the guts 797 00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,760 Speaker 1: to stand up and suddenly there was a flood alleged 798 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,040 Speaker 1: victims coming forward. Now, of course, the vast majority of 799 00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:02,799 Speaker 1: doctors like people are good. I love my doctors, the 800 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,120 Speaker 1: doctors I have it as an adult, and I love 801 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,440 Speaker 1: my children's doctors. Of course I stay in there with them. 802 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,400 Speaker 1: But I love my doctors. But there is no doubt 803 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,640 Speaker 1: in my mind that this has happened, and most likely 804 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:19,759 Speaker 1: far beyond, far beyond the extent of the a j 805 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,560 Speaker 1: C article, because these are just the people that actually 806 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,879 Speaker 1: made a claim, that realize what had happened to them, 807 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,640 Speaker 1: that did wake up during anesthesia, that they figured out 808 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,080 Speaker 1: what was happening to their three year old. How many thousands, 809 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,120 Speaker 1: tens of thousands of people never said a word, carry 810 00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:42,360 Speaker 1: T Guarden, investigative reporter, a j C. How can a person, 811 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:47,480 Speaker 1: a regular person check out their doctor. Um, it's pretty tough, Nancy, 812 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:50,719 Speaker 1: in part because of what you just said. UM that 813 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,160 Speaker 1: a lot of the time that's not reported. People are 814 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,319 Speaker 1: confused when it happened. But I do encourage people to 815 00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,720 Speaker 1: look at their state Medical Board website to just see 816 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,000 Speaker 1: if their doctor has ever been disciplined. You can also 817 00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:07,640 Speaker 1: see interesting information about whether somebody's board certified and UM 818 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:12,600 Speaker 1: just other background information. In every state, UM licenses doctors 819 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,400 Speaker 1: at the state level, so it's worth checking out um, 820 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,879 Speaker 1: Otherwise it's it's kind of hard. I think a good 821 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,480 Speaker 1: thing to do is familiarize yourself with things like state 822 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,239 Speaker 1: requirements like if I'm having an intimate exam, should there 823 00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,080 Speaker 1: beat someone else in the room? Um, And and don't 824 00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,520 Speaker 1: hesitate to um ask for that. You know, if in 825 00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:34,600 Speaker 1: the selling feels uncomfortable to you know, it's it's worth 826 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,680 Speaker 1: um getting up and walking out. I mean, doctors are 827 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,680 Speaker 1: supposed to kind of explain why they're doing certain things, 828 00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,480 Speaker 1: and so if you're in an exam where something's happening 829 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,520 Speaker 1: and it's not clearly explained, and that can also be 830 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,839 Speaker 1: a red flag as well. A Nancy Grace crime story 831 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:52,640 Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye friend,