WEBVTT - The Darkest Night 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.760 My name is noam ut eBay and you're listening to 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:06.080 false prophets. This is the hardest part of my story 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.959 to share with you, and I want to warn you 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:13.240 this episode deals with suicidal thoughts and could be triggering 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:20.960 for some listeners. Life after Hillsong was not easy. It's 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:27.200 getting easier as time goes. At the beginning, I had 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.680 to find a way to substitute the time that I 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.720 was giving on Sundays. First and foremost, I was able 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:37.600 to sleep in. I didn't have to wake up like 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:41.040 at five thirty six am on a Sunday to get ready, 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.720 So I was able to substitute my time with resting 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:51.200 and sleeping in, and I was able to make Sundays 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:56.080 be a safe haven that went from a place of 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.520 being traumatic to now be a space where I didn't 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.320 have to give anyone my time if I didn't want to, 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.880 I could do whatever I want it. After leaving, I 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.840 was living with my friend Morgan. We rented a two 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.399 bedroom apartment together. We lived in front of the beach, 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:16.080 so it was a way for me to get away 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:20.360 from the city life and really think through and heal. 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.080 When I could sit on my balcony and just stare 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:27.440 out and journal and listen to podcasts, listen and read books. 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.120 It became that really big healing space for me in 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:36.680 that apartment, and to this day, that's still something I do. 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.839 I find a way to fill in my Sundays. I'll 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:44.760 go and see my girlfriend and we'll go shopping together, 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.960 or do something fun. I go for a long walk 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.480 with Teddy at the park and we'll have a picnic there. 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:56.120 So obviously, healing after Hillsong has taken up a lot 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:59.480 of time and money, but it has been a space 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.360 where I have been able to take back my power 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:08.480 in spending my day with whoever and wherever I want. 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.200 Before I got to this point, and before I finally 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:17.400 understood Hillsong's attitude towards my queer identity, I went through 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.960 a very dark and very dangerous time. I'm going to 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.079 take you back to a time I had suicidal thoughts 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:28.480 and when I felt so alone and rejected. Hillsong had 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:33.400 become my world. I'd been volunteering constantly, Almost all my 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:37.200 friends were there. I invested my time, my faith, my 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.960 emotions in this church. Well, when I let people in 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.520 about my sexuality, I felt more and more of an 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:48.280 outsider and in a series of things sent me into 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:52.480 a spiral of anxiety and depression. It was a combination 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:57.040 of growing isolation, my family's reaction to me coming out, 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:01.120 and past trauma as a teenager. They all came together. 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:06.240 I begin to have suicide ideation. I begin to believe 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.560 that in my head, the only solution I had was 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.600 to just end the pain. There was so much happening, 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.160 and I get scared as soon as I realized that 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.560 this was happening in my head. So I text my 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.639 leader and I tell her I don't know what's going on, 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:27.200 but I'm starting to have these thoughts and they're really scary. 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:32.080 She tells me, Okay, well, let's do some devotionals, let's 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.640 do some prayer, talk to your therapist. Yeah, yeah, do 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:40.160 that please, but also do this Christian thing. I start 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:43.520 to see things around my home that I could use 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.320 to end my life because that was the only way 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.600 and the only solution I saw for the pain I 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.400 was going through. Death felt like the best solution. In 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:58.520 the moment I started doing self harming. I would grab 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.560 a knife and cut my arm a little bit to 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:04.760 just feel some pain in my body, and I would 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:08.800 have to wear sweaters in summer to church because I 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.680 didn't want people to see the cuts, to see anything 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.240 that was happening. My leader knew they were there because 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.279 I showed her, and I told her she would just 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.000 shame me and say, why did you do that? Like 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:24.200 you just want attention. So it was really hurtful. There 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.600 was a chemical imbalance in my head and I needed 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.920 more support for medication and for professionals, but that's not 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:36.440 what I was receiving in Hillsong church. I started to 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.760 open the bottle and put them in my hand and 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:44.520 I texted my leader and I tell her I don't 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.960 know what to do. I'm in a lot of pain 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:54.359 right now. I have this medication in my hand and 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:59.600 I just want to end it. And she gets scared 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.120 and says, I'm on my way. Don't do it. You're 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.000 bigger than this. You have the power to control this. 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.680 I opened the door for her and I run into 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.040 my room and I leave the door a little cracked, 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.560 but didn't let her come in because I needed to 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:17.520 be in the darkness. I didn't want to be in light. 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.280 And I was leaning to the wall with the pills 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.880 in my hand, and I start banging on my head 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:28.200 doing self harm, and she asked, like, what is going on? 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.240 Like my head is just all over the place. She 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:35.720 finally is able to get to me, comes into my room, 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.520 turns on the lights, takes all the pills that I 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:42.719 had from my dresser, puts them in her bag, and 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.080 she sees my arms that had been cut. She takes 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.040 all my knives and she says, come on, sit over 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.760 here on the couch with me. We're going to listen 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:57.839 to this sermon. And I was like what, like in me, 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.000 I needed a hug, Like I needed support. I needed 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:03.279 someone to cry with me. I needed someone to say 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.320 it's going to be okay, let's go to the hospital. 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:10.920 You need psychiatric evaluation. And it was basically this pastor 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.279 I forget his name, but he had lost his daughter, 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:17.920 he had gone through depression because of that, and he 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.040 was now telling people that they needed to wage war 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:26.680 in their head in order to fight mental illness. And 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.520 so she starts telling me you have a war in 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.160 your head and you need to fight it. You have 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:34.840 the ability to fight it, and God is going to 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:38.080 fight with you. And I was like what, Like I 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:40.840 was so angry and start telling You're like, no, I'm 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.719 not going to do that. And she's like, oh, come on, 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.400 you're acting childish. Come sit on the couch. We need 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:48.359 to talk about this. I was like, this is ridiculous. 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:52.000 You're making me listen to something like totally not going 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.400 to help. And we started getting into a fight and 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.280 she gets mad and then she says, okay, like I'm 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.840 gonna leave, go to sleep. You can continue to talk 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.200 about this later. I'm just glad you're safe. I'm glad 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:05.360 you're here. I was like, okay, Well, something good came 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:12.920 out of that. After that night, I felt more excluded 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.440 from the Hillsong community. One day, I found out I 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:20.040 hadn't been invited to a Hillsong party. And this sounds 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.920 like a small thing, but it really broke me down. 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:25.440 I turned to one of the only friends I had 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.440 outside the church, Morgan, with this question, do you like 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.560 me as a person? Like? I don't like me as 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.040 a person, and people are pushing me away and I 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:39.040 feel really lonely. And so she starts to see the 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:44.200 switch that had just happened in my head and she says, 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.800 what's going on? What happened? And so I tell her 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.200 that they were starting to push me away, and I 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:56.640 was really hurt and that it was probably best if 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:00.200 I wasn't around, because no one wanted me to be 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:04.480 around if that's how they were treating me. And so 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.160 I start crying with her on the couch and she says, 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.680 do you want to talk to my aunt? And her 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:15.080 aunt was a pastor at the time in a city 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:19.680 close by to Boston called Summerville from a United Church 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:23.720 of Christ church, which is an affirming LGBTQ church, and 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:28.520 she happened to be also queer and black. So I 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.360 told her, okay, fine, like yeah, like, I don't know 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:35.880 why you're calling her, but sure. So she quickly goes 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:40.120 on her phone and gets her Aunt D and she's 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:41.760 on the phone and she says Aunt, like, I'm here 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.400 with no Emi. Can you talk to her? Aunt D 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:46.200 was like, oh my god. Yeah. So she passes me 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:51.000 the phone. I'm sitting on the couch already crying, and 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:53.199 I get the phone on me and I'm like hello, 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:59.120 and she says, Hi, no Emmy, it's Aunt D. Well, 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.640 what's going on? And I heard you were having a 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:05.559 really hard time right now? And I tell her, yeah, 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.200 like I don't know, my head is just really weird 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:12.000 right now, she says, I'm so sorry that's happening to you. 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.040 It sounds like you've been having a really, really hard time. 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:23.439 Have you ever thought of getting a psychiatric evaluation at 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:37.959 the hospital. Morgan got me on the phone with you, 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:42.680 and I remember clearly where you had a very calm 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:47.280 conversation with me in comparison to how other people and 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.760 Hillsong we're having that conversation with me, It was like 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:57.440 night and day. That is Teddy dreaming. Let me wake 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:05.440 up up really quick. That is Eddy. Step there, he's awake. Okay, 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:12.920 going back anyway. So yeah, I remember like visibly that 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:18.360 support that I got from you. I don't know how 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.720 much you remember from that day, but for me, that 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:27.079 phone call was like life saving and it was really really, 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:31.240 really monumental in me getting the care and support. And 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:35.160 I'm getting a little emotional because if I wouldn't have 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:39.040 had that phone conversation with you, I probably wouldn't be 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:44.640 sitting here today. I am so grateful that you are 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:49.800 sitting here today, and I am so incredibly proud of you. 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:56.319 I remember that experience really really well. What I remember 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:00.760 was the fear that I heard in my Nies's voice 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:07.080 that someone who loved you and supports you was afraid 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:14.400 for you, and that immediately signaled to me that we 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:18.800 were likely going to have to at least consider whether 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:23.360 you needed an additional level of supporting care. I think 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:30.679 the thing that people miss is that little voice inside 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:35.319 of yourself when you're talking to someone you love that 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.679 tells you we may be in trouble, you know what 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.600 I mean, That little voice that's like, they may not 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:45.040 be okay. And I think sometimes you want to speak 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.280 to that voice you, Oh, no, I'm sure you know 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.160 they're gonna be fine. They would never do anything, this 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:53.160 is why, you know, and you kind of overtalk that, 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.760 but just asking an additional set of questions when you 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.439 have that moment. So the moment that I could hear 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:03.280 that fear in her, that for me was like, okay, 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:05.600 we need to click in and ask a different set 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.080 of questions. And then when I talked to you on 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:12.880 the phone, my heart just broke, you know, because I 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.800 could hear that you were in a lot of pain, 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:20.120 and I wanted to be able to sit across from you. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:24.000 I wanted to be able to look at you in 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.600 your eyes to convey how much you are loved and 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:31.480 respected and appreciated in that you are not alone in this, 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:33.600 and we are going to get you the help that 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:38.280 you need. I followed your instructions down to the period 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.880 of like how in the Kama was like down to 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:45.320 what to do because my brain was so overwhelmed. So 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.240 having those instructions the way that you gave them to 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.400 me of you're going to pack a bag, you're gonna 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.319 get in an uber, You're going to go to the hospital, 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.080 and you're going to tell the receptionists I'm here for 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.960 a psychiatric evaluation, and then I'll take it from there. 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:02.760 And then you kind of let me know what was 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:04.959 going to happen after that, where I was going to 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.760 talk to psychiatrists and they were going to let me 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:10.439 know if I needed to be admitted or what support 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.359 I was going to get. And you made me comfortable 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:17.839 with taking that first step because I had instructions, I 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:21.120 knew how to go about it. In comparison to other 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.160 people around me that were trying to support in their 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.400 own way that they believed was right, it was very 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.520 very different where they would use prayer or they would 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:35.880 use devotionals, or they would make me do a variety 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:38.880 of things, but it was never actually getting me to 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.000 a hospital because it was to the point where it 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.880 was I needed to go. That was a very difficult day. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.439 It was for me, and I'm sure it was for you, 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:54.400 they know, after that moment you went and visited me. 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.760 What did that look like for you? I remember feeling 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.920 a little anxious right like I was outside of my 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:05.920 comfort zone because I didn't know that area. I wasn't 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.079 sure how to get there, and they were like these 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.199 complex directions, you know. The person who given me the 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.960 directions sounded like it was going to be incredibly complicated. 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.440 And as someone who loves you and cares for you, 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.480 I wanted to get to where you were, you know, 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:21.840 so I want a straight line, like go down, make 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:23.800 one left, and you're in the space. And it was 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.440 like you had to go down this backset of stairs 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.600 and around it was this old thing. So I remember being, 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:33.200 you know, a little anxious about getting there. But I 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:37.200 remember when I finally walked through, this felt like it 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.920 was like catacombs maze to come through this building and 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.200 you come up the stairs and I came through the door, 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:48.320 and first of all, when I drove up there were 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:52.280 the vehicles of your friends. And then when I came 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:56.440 through the door, here was this network, you know, of people, 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:02.560 and I remember thinking how beautiful it was to see 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:07.080 you surrounded because there had been these other moments when 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:11.880 I had visited individuals and they were there on their own. 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.320 I felt so much better just walking into the room 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.960 and recognizing, like, Okay, you know, your folks were there 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:23.720 to support you. At the same time, when we started talking, 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:29.360 my heart was broken again because there hadn't been that 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.080 kind of support from this community that I knew you 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.480 were such a large part of this community, that you 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:40.560 were supporting with your time, with your effort, with your energy. 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.720 And so we talked a little bit about the other 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:48.600 people that were on staff, and there wasn't that support 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:52.880 from them. And so, you know, when you serve in 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:58.040 any number of professions, you feel a relational connection to 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:01.680 the other people who serve and that profession. So attorneys 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:05.480 look at other attorneys, doctors look at other doctors, engineers, 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:08.520 you know, and as a clergy person, you look at 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.120 other clergy And so I'm in the room and I'm 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:13.960 happy to be in the room, and I'm glad to 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.920 support you, but I'm also feeling what I think is 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:24.000 righteous indignation and anger that my clergy siblings aren't in 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.120 the room. Also, this is the place where you show 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:31.080 up for them every day, and here you are in 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.760 this incredibly difficult moment in the context of your life, 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:39.560 and the church wasn't showing up for you, and that 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.720 was painful, you know. And I remember, you know, having 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:50.120 this conversation, not wanting to not wanting to go after 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.920 that other community, but also feeling very protective of you 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.160 and having, you know, like having an Auntie moment, like 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:59.120 I wanted to go and have a talk with some people, 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:02.320 like the most important thing was making sure that you 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.760 were receiving the care that you needed, that that particular 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.080 program was a good program for you. But there was 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:09.600 a part of me that wanted to like roll up 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:13.080 on that other, those colleagues and say, what in the 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.760 world are y'all doing? You know, how are you not 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.720 showing up in a way that this faithful child of 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.439 God needs you to show up? You know, in this moment, 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:28.040 when I looked at you, I saw still the pain 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.760 in your face, but I could also see a sense 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:35.440 of relief, you know, like you were finally being heard 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.359 I did have anger as well because the pastors from 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:43.040 Hillsong didn't go. But I didn't know how to respond 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.200 to that. I didn't know what that looked like. And 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:51.640 it seems really off for me because like my dad 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.720 would go to the hospital as him having been a 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:58.080 pastor and a missionary and a minister, like we would 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.439 go to hospitals, we would go to prison, and we 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:02.959 would go and talk to people on their deathbed, like 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:07.159 multiple things, like that's what people are there for in 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:10.600 your community? Is there for in religious support? That's what 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.240 they're there for as well if that's a big part 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.479 of someone's life. And so I was confused as to 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:22.240 why they weren't coming, And so that was really eye 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.040 opening for me, and it was a huge catalyst for 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.760 me starting to question even more if they even cared 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:31.520 about me as a human being. They often say that 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.040 when you're in your lowest moments, those who show up 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:38.320 are your real friends, your real people, And in that moment, 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.679 there were people from the church who showed up who 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:48.679 were there as friends, but later shifted how they approached 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.680 me because we hit heads on a lot of big 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:59.879 conversations and they were we don't we don't speak anymore, obviously, 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.400 but my relationship with you, I feel like it deepened 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:13.359 from there. Auntie Davida McAlister, she taught me there's a 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:17.880 difference between tolerated and being affirmed, and I learned what 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:22.199 real affirmation looks like at her church. Weeks later, I 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.240 went to a service. What a culture shock that was 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:29.800 for me. I ended up going to Auntie's church and 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:37.080 I remember they were having gospel drag Sunday and there 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.640 was a black drag queen leading the choir, and she 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:44.840 was beautiful and amazing and like everything was so good, 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.760 and she was telling us to call her the Chocolate Goddess. 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:53.240 And then aunt Ye gave a beautiful sermon of affirmation 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:56.679 and of welcomeness and of like oh, it was just 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:02.600 so beautiful, so like feeling, and so spiritual filling. It 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.120 was a very different tradition from what I had grown up, 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.239 but it was fine for me because it felt so 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:10.040 good and I was finally in a place where all 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:14.600 of me was welcome. And I ended up going to 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.840 Hillsong for the five pm service. I was out of 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.919 Auntie's church by like one pm. Morgan and I grabbed 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.000 lunch and then I head over to Hillsong for the 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:30.320 five PM, and I noticed the stark difference in me 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.760 in the way that I felt at Auntie's Church and 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.359 the way that I felt a Hillsong for that five PM. 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.479 And a Noemi at Auntie's church was free and was 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:47.400 openly queer and was just happy and holistically all of me, 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.760 and the God of Auntie was wholly affirming and was 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:57.600 calling me beloved. But at Hillsong Church, I was just 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:02.480 another volunteer who was going to help dim these lights 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:06.080 in the church, and I had to put on a 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:10.280 production and I couldn't be all of me. I had 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:13.760 to be this person who needed to pretend they were okay, 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:16.760 and needed to pretend they weren't queer and needed to 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:22.159 hide these parts of me. And that that really opened 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.960 my eyes. And after that Sunday, as I was going 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.600 home riding on the train, I was like, that's it. 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:39.600 I'm done. Auntie helped me confirm what I probably knew 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:42.320 in my heart, and helped me find the courage to 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:46.240 ask the right questions before committing myself to any church. 0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:50.120 Sometimes people go for the lowest. You know, it's like 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:53.280 you were doing literally doing the least, but calling it 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:55.199 the most and so I was like, Okay, well you 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:58.600 can come here and you can give you know this money, 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:00.320 and you could do this. And it's like, yeah, but 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:03.160 can I serve? Can I sit in the pulpit? Can 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:06.920 a person preach here? Will you do a same gender 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:11.000 wedding here? Will you celebrate the birth of a child 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.560 in this family in the same way that you celebrate 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:15.439 the birth of a child in that family When you 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:18.880 have identified the individuals who are going to be god 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:21.440 parents for a child, you know, will all of the 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:25.080 members of the community be welcome at the altar and 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:28.840 celebrated in their relationships with this child? Like, what are 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:33.000 the ways that you communicate to anybody who comes through 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.640 the door that this isn't just a space where you're 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:38.160 going to be tolerated, but this is a space where 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:42.760 you will be celebrated as a beloved child of God. Yeah. 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:45.880 I'm glad you make that distinction because I was being 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:53.679 tolerated at Hillsong, where I was allowed to do certain things, 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:56.080 but there was a limit to what I could do. 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:58.720 But they wouldn't tell me the limit. They just said 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.440 there was a limit. And I need a place where 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:03.919 I'm being celebrated because this is what I need in 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:08.199 my life, and everyone should be celebrated as human beings. 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:10.760 So can I ask you a question? Yeah, and then 0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:17.479 I'll ask you one final question close. I remember years 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:21.119 ago there's an organization in the United Church of Christ 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:25.640 that is called the Coalition, and it is the grouping 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:30.400 of churches who self identified as open and affirming right. 0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:33.399 And so they're all a part of this coalition, the 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:37.399 LGBTQ Coalition, and they would have an annual gathering in 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:40.640 our denomination, separate from the gathering that the larger church 0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:45.360 would have, and one year at that gathering, they talked 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:53.760 about righteous indignation and lamentation as spiritual practices, like how 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:58.879 essential it was for people of faith to be able 0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:03.920 to not only acknowledge the rage that some of us 0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:07.960 carry based on things that have happened, but to be 0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:13.600 able to lament the pain that those actions have created, 0:24:13.960 --> 0:24:17.800 to lament the damage that's done to our psyche, to 0:24:17.880 --> 0:24:23.200 our spirit, to our physical bodies, and to understand that 0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:27.560 as a part of our faith, to understand that as 0:24:27.600 --> 0:24:30.359 a part of our walk and our journey. And so 0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:35.080 you talked a little bit about starting to experience that anger, 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:41.040 But I wonder, like, how have you expressed that. Where 0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:44.920 are the spaces where you've given yourself permission to lament 0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:48.199 that you know the damage that was done to you, Like, 0:24:48.440 --> 0:24:52.399 how are you managing that particular part of the energy. 0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:55.919 Once I was able to get out and I listened 0:24:55.960 --> 0:24:59.159 to my body for the first time because I was 0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:03.000 taught to discus because my body was deceit And when 0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:08.240 I finally reconnected with my body, it all fell and 0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:14.320 I started to cry, and I started to realize and 0:25:14.440 --> 0:25:20.840 lament the money that I spent having to heal that 0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:24.840 welcome home was the most expensive thing I fell for, 0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:29.880 that big sign that they have at the entrance. I 0:25:29.920 --> 0:25:33.840 started to lament the friends, the people that I welcomed 0:25:33.920 --> 0:25:38.399 in and told them it was a safe space, because 0:25:38.400 --> 0:25:42.680 I knew that I was responsible for now them having 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:46.919 to experience an unsafe space for everyone I had a 0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:52.520 responsibility in their story now and accountability, and to lament 0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:58.240 the lack of qualified leadership around me. Yeah, I think 0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:02.560 the lament of losing hundreds of friends, people that I 0:26:02.560 --> 0:26:05.800 thought were my friends, and then ghosting me, blocking me 0:26:05.840 --> 0:26:09.119