1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: My name is noam ut eBay and you're listening to 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: false prophets. This is the hardest part of my story 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: to share with you, and I want to warn you 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: this episode deals with suicidal thoughts and could be triggering 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: for some listeners. Life after Hillsong was not easy. It's 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: getting easier as time goes. At the beginning, I had 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: to find a way to substitute the time that I 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: was giving on Sundays. First and foremost, I was able 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: to sleep in. I didn't have to wake up like 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: at five thirty six am on a Sunday to get ready, 11 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: So I was able to substitute my time with resting 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: and sleeping in, and I was able to make Sundays 13 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: be a safe haven that went from a place of 14 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: being traumatic to now be a space where I didn't 15 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: have to give anyone my time if I didn't want to, 16 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: I could do whatever I want it. After leaving, I 17 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: was living with my friend Morgan. We rented a two 18 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: bedroom apartment together. We lived in front of the beach, 19 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: so it was a way for me to get away 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: from the city life and really think through and heal. 21 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: When I could sit on my balcony and just stare 22 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: out and journal and listen to podcasts, listen and read books. 23 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: It became that really big healing space for me in 24 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: that apartment, and to this day, that's still something I do. 25 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,839 Speaker 1: I find a way to fill in my Sundays. I'll 26 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: go and see my girlfriend and we'll go shopping together, 27 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: or do something fun. I go for a long walk 28 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: with Teddy at the park and we'll have a picnic there. 29 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: So obviously, healing after Hillsong has taken up a lot 30 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: of time and money, but it has been a space 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: where I have been able to take back my power 32 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: in spending my day with whoever and wherever I want. 33 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: Before I got to this point, and before I finally 34 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: understood Hillsong's attitude towards my queer identity, I went through 35 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: a very dark and very dangerous time. I'm going to 36 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: take you back to a time I had suicidal thoughts 37 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: and when I felt so alone and rejected. Hillsong had 38 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: become my world. I'd been volunteering constantly, Almost all my 39 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: friends were there. I invested my time, my faith, my 40 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: emotions in this church. Well, when I let people in 41 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: about my sexuality, I felt more and more of an 42 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: outsider and in a series of things sent me into 43 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: a spiral of anxiety and depression. It was a combination 44 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: of growing isolation, my family's reaction to me coming out, 45 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: and past trauma as a teenager. They all came together. 46 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: I begin to have suicide ideation. I begin to believe 47 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: that in my head, the only solution I had was 48 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: to just end the pain. There was so much happening, 49 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: and I get scared as soon as I realized that 50 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: this was happening in my head. So I text my 51 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 1: leader and I tell her I don't know what's going on, 52 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: but I'm starting to have these thoughts and they're really scary. 53 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: She tells me, Okay, well, let's do some devotionals, let's 54 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: do some prayer, talk to your therapist. Yeah, yeah, do 55 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: that please, but also do this Christian thing. I start 56 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: to see things around my home that I could use 57 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: to end my life because that was the only way 58 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: and the only solution I saw for the pain I 59 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: was going through. Death felt like the best solution. In 60 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: the moment I started doing self harming. I would grab 61 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: a knife and cut my arm a little bit to 62 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: just feel some pain in my body, and I would 63 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: have to wear sweaters in summer to church because I 64 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: didn't want people to see the cuts, to see anything 65 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: that was happening. My leader knew they were there because 66 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: I showed her, and I told her she would just 67 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: shame me and say, why did you do that? Like 68 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: you just want attention. So it was really hurtful. There 69 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: was a chemical imbalance in my head and I needed 70 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: more support for medication and for professionals, but that's not 71 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: what I was receiving in Hillsong church. I started to 72 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: open the bottle and put them in my hand and 73 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: I texted my leader and I tell her I don't 74 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: know what to do. I'm in a lot of pain 75 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 1: right now. I have this medication in my hand and 76 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: I just want to end it. And she gets scared 77 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: and says, I'm on my way. Don't do it. You're 78 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: bigger than this. You have the power to control this. 79 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: I opened the door for her and I run into 80 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: my room and I leave the door a little cracked, 81 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: but didn't let her come in because I needed to 82 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: be in the darkness. I didn't want to be in light. 83 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 1: And I was leaning to the wall with the pills 84 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: in my hand, and I start banging on my head 85 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: doing self harm, and she asked, like, what is going on? 86 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: Like my head is just all over the place. She 87 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: finally is able to get to me, comes into my room, 88 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: turns on the lights, takes all the pills that I 89 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: had from my dresser, puts them in her bag, and 90 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: she sees my arms that had been cut. She takes 91 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: all my knives and she says, come on, sit over 92 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: here on the couch with me. We're going to listen 93 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: to this sermon. And I was like what, like in me, 94 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: I needed a hug, Like I needed support. I needed 95 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: someone to cry with me. I needed someone to say 96 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: it's going to be okay, let's go to the hospital. 97 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: You need psychiatric evaluation. And it was basically this pastor 98 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: I forget his name, but he had lost his daughter, 99 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: he had gone through depression because of that, and he 100 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: was now telling people that they needed to wage war 101 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: in their head in order to fight mental illness. And 102 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: so she starts telling me you have a war in 103 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: your head and you need to fight it. You have 104 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: the ability to fight it, and God is going to 105 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: fight with you. And I was like what, Like I 106 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 1: was so angry and start telling You're like, no, I'm 107 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: not going to do that. And she's like, oh, come on, 108 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: you're acting childish. Come sit on the couch. We need 109 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 1: to talk about this. I was like, this is ridiculous. 110 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: You're making me listen to something like totally not going 111 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: to help. And we started getting into a fight and 112 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: she gets mad and then she says, okay, like I'm 113 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: gonna leave, go to sleep. You can continue to talk 114 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: about this later. I'm just glad you're safe. I'm glad 115 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: you're here. I was like, okay, Well, something good came 116 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: out of that. After that night, I felt more excluded 117 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: from the Hillsong community. One day, I found out I 118 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: hadn't been invited to a Hillsong party. And this sounds 119 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: like a small thing, but it really broke me down. 120 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: I turned to one of the only friends I had 121 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: outside the church, Morgan, with this question, do you like 122 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: me as a person? Like? I don't like me as 123 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: a person, and people are pushing me away and I 124 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: feel really lonely. And so she starts to see the 125 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: switch that had just happened in my head and she says, 126 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: what's going on? What happened? And so I tell her 127 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: that they were starting to push me away, and I 128 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: was really hurt and that it was probably best if 129 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: I wasn't around, because no one wanted me to be 130 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: around if that's how they were treating me. And so 131 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: I start crying with her on the couch and she says, 132 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: do you want to talk to my aunt? And her 133 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: aunt was a pastor at the time in a city 134 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: close by to Boston called Summerville from a United Church 135 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: of Christ church, which is an affirming LGBTQ church, and 136 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: she happened to be also queer and black. So I 137 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: told her, okay, fine, like yeah, like, I don't know 138 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: why you're calling her, but sure. So she quickly goes 139 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: on her phone and gets her Aunt D and she's 140 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: on the phone and she says Aunt, like, I'm here 141 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: with no Emi. Can you talk to her? Aunt D 142 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: was like, oh my god. Yeah. So she passes me 143 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: the phone. I'm sitting on the couch already crying, and 144 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: I get the phone on me and I'm like hello, 145 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: and she says, Hi, no Emmy, it's Aunt D. Well, 146 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: what's going on? And I heard you were having a 147 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: really hard time right now? And I tell her, yeah, 148 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: like I don't know, my head is just really weird 149 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: right now, she says, I'm so sorry that's happening to you. 150 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: It sounds like you've been having a really, really hard time. 151 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: Have you ever thought of getting a psychiatric evaluation at 152 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: the hospital. Morgan got me on the phone with you, 153 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: and I remember clearly where you had a very calm 154 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: conversation with me in comparison to how other people and 155 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: Hillsong we're having that conversation with me, It was like 156 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: night and day. That is Teddy dreaming. Let me wake 157 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: up up really quick. That is Eddy. Step there, he's awake. Okay, 158 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: going back anyway. So yeah, I remember like visibly that 159 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: support that I got from you. I don't know how 160 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: much you remember from that day, but for me, that 161 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: phone call was like life saving and it was really really, 162 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: really monumental in me getting the care and support. And 163 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: I'm getting a little emotional because if I wouldn't have 164 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: had that phone conversation with you, I probably wouldn't be 165 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: sitting here today. I am so grateful that you are 166 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: sitting here today, and I am so incredibly proud of you. 167 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 1: I remember that experience really really well. What I remember 168 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: was the fear that I heard in my Nies's voice 169 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: that someone who loved you and supports you was afraid 170 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: for you, and that immediately signaled to me that we 171 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: were likely going to have to at least consider whether 172 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: you needed an additional level of supporting care. I think 173 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 1: the thing that people miss is that little voice inside 174 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 1: of yourself when you're talking to someone you love that 175 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: tells you we may be in trouble, you know what 176 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: I mean, That little voice that's like, they may not 177 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: be okay. And I think sometimes you want to speak 178 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: to that voice you, Oh, no, I'm sure you know 179 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: they're gonna be fine. They would never do anything, this 180 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: is why, you know, and you kind of overtalk that, 181 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: but just asking an additional set of questions when you 182 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 1: have that moment. So the moment that I could hear 183 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: that fear in her, that for me was like, okay, 184 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: we need to click in and ask a different set 185 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: of questions. And then when I talked to you on 186 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: the phone, my heart just broke, you know, because I 187 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: could hear that you were in a lot of pain, 188 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: and I wanted to be able to sit across from you. 189 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to be able to look at you in 190 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: your eyes to convey how much you are loved and 191 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: respected and appreciated in that you are not alone in this, 192 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: and we are going to get you the help that 193 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: you need. I followed your instructions down to the period 194 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: of like how in the Kama was like down to 195 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: what to do because my brain was so overwhelmed. So 196 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: having those instructions the way that you gave them to 197 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: me of you're going to pack a bag, you're gonna 198 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 1: get in an uber, You're going to go to the hospital, 199 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: and you're going to tell the receptionists I'm here for 200 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: a psychiatric evaluation, and then I'll take it from there. 201 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: And then you kind of let me know what was 202 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: going to happen after that, where I was going to 203 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: talk to psychiatrists and they were going to let me 204 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 1: know if I needed to be admitted or what support 205 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,359 Speaker 1: I was going to get. And you made me comfortable 206 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 1: with taking that first step because I had instructions, I 207 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: knew how to go about it. In comparison to other 208 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: people around me that were trying to support in their 209 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: own way that they believed was right, it was very 210 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: very different where they would use prayer or they would 211 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: use devotionals, or they would make me do a variety 212 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: of things, but it was never actually getting me to 213 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: a hospital because it was to the point where it 214 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: was I needed to go. That was a very difficult day. 215 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: It was for me, and I'm sure it was for you, 216 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: they know, after that moment you went and visited me. 217 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: What did that look like for you? I remember feeling 218 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: a little anxious right like I was outside of my 219 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: comfort zone because I didn't know that area. I wasn't 220 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 1: sure how to get there, and they were like these 221 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: complex directions, you know. The person who given me the 222 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: directions sounded like it was going to be incredibly complicated. 223 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: And as someone who loves you and cares for you, 224 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to get to where you were, you know, 225 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: so I want a straight line, like go down, make 226 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: one left, and you're in the space. And it was 227 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: like you had to go down this backset of stairs 228 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: and around it was this old thing. So I remember being, 229 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: you know, a little anxious about getting there. But I 230 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: remember when I finally walked through, this felt like it 231 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: was like catacombs maze to come through this building and 232 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: you come up the stairs and I came through the door, 233 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: and first of all, when I drove up there were 234 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: the vehicles of your friends. And then when I came 235 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: through the door, here was this network, you know, of people, 236 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: and I remember thinking how beautiful it was to see 237 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: you surrounded because there had been these other moments when 238 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: I had visited individuals and they were there on their own. 239 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: I felt so much better just walking into the room 240 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: and recognizing, like, Okay, you know, your folks were there 241 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: to support you. At the same time, when we started talking, 242 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: my heart was broken again because there hadn't been that 243 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: kind of support from this community that I knew you 244 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: were such a large part of this community, that you 245 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: were supporting with your time, with your effort, with your energy. 246 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: And so we talked a little bit about the other 247 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: people that were on staff, and there wasn't that support 248 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: from them. And so, you know, when you serve in 249 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: any number of professions, you feel a relational connection to 250 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: the other people who serve and that profession. So attorneys 251 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: look at other attorneys, doctors look at other doctors, engineers, 252 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: you know, and as a clergy person, you look at 253 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: other clergy And so I'm in the room and I'm 254 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: happy to be in the room, and I'm glad to 255 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: support you, but I'm also feeling what I think is 256 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: righteous indignation and anger that my clergy siblings aren't in 257 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: the room. Also, this is the place where you show 258 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: up for them every day, and here you are in 259 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: this incredibly difficult moment in the context of your life, 260 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: and the church wasn't showing up for you, and that 261 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: was painful, you know. And I remember, you know, having 262 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: this conversation, not wanting to not wanting to go after 263 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: that other community, but also feeling very protective of you 264 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: and having, you know, like having an Auntie moment, like 265 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: I wanted to go and have a talk with some people, 266 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: like the most important thing was making sure that you 267 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: were receiving the care that you needed, that that particular 268 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: program was a good program for you. But there was 269 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: a part of me that wanted to like roll up 270 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: on that other, those colleagues and say, what in the 271 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: world are y'all doing? You know, how are you not 272 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: showing up in a way that this faithful child of 273 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: God needs you to show up? You know, in this moment, 274 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: when I looked at you, I saw still the pain 275 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: in your face, but I could also see a sense 276 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: of relief, you know, like you were finally being heard 277 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: I did have anger as well because the pastors from 278 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: Hillsong didn't go. But I didn't know how to respond 279 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: to that. I didn't know what that looked like. And 280 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 1: it seems really off for me because like my dad 281 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: would go to the hospital as him having been a 282 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: pastor and a missionary and a minister, like we would 283 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: go to hospitals, we would go to prison, and we 284 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,959 Speaker 1: would go and talk to people on their deathbed, like 285 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: multiple things, like that's what people are there for in 286 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: your community? Is there for in religious support? That's what 287 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: they're there for as well if that's a big part 288 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,479 Speaker 1: of someone's life. And so I was confused as to 289 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: why they weren't coming, And so that was really eye 290 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: opening for me, and it was a huge catalyst for 291 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: me starting to question even more if they even cared 292 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: about me as a human being. They often say that 293 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: when you're in your lowest moments, those who show up 294 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: are your real friends, your real people, And in that moment, 295 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: there were people from the church who showed up who 296 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: were there as friends, but later shifted how they approached 297 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: me because we hit heads on a lot of big 298 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: conversations and they were we don't we don't speak anymore, obviously, 299 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 1: but my relationship with you, I feel like it deepened 300 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: from there. Auntie Davida McAlister, she taught me there's a 301 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: difference between tolerated and being affirmed, and I learned what 302 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,199 Speaker 1: real affirmation looks like at her church. Weeks later, I 303 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: went to a service. What a culture shock that was 304 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: for me. I ended up going to Auntie's church and 305 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: I remember they were having gospel drag Sunday and there 306 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 1: was a black drag queen leading the choir, and she 307 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: was beautiful and amazing and like everything was so good, 308 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: and she was telling us to call her the Chocolate Goddess. 309 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: And then aunt Ye gave a beautiful sermon of affirmation 310 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: and of welcomeness and of like oh, it was just 311 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: so beautiful, so like feeling, and so spiritual filling. It 312 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: was a very different tradition from what I had grown up, 313 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,239 Speaker 1: but it was fine for me because it felt so 314 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: good and I was finally in a place where all 315 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: of me was welcome. And I ended up going to 316 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: Hillsong for the five pm service. I was out of 317 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: Auntie's church by like one pm. Morgan and I grabbed 318 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: lunch and then I head over to Hillsong for the 319 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: five PM, and I noticed the stark difference in me 320 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: in the way that I felt at Auntie's Church and 321 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: the way that I felt a Hillsong for that five PM. 322 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,479 Speaker 1: And a Noemi at Auntie's church was free and was 323 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 1: openly queer and was just happy and holistically all of me, 324 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: and the God of Auntie was wholly affirming and was 325 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: calling me beloved. But at Hillsong Church, I was just 326 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: another volunteer who was going to help dim these lights 327 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: in the church, and I had to put on a 328 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: production and I couldn't be all of me. I had 329 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: to be this person who needed to pretend they were okay, 330 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: and needed to pretend they weren't queer and needed to 331 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: hide these parts of me. And that that really opened 332 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: my eyes. And after that Sunday, as I was going 333 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: home riding on the train, I was like, that's it. 334 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: I'm done. Auntie helped me confirm what I probably knew 335 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: in my heart, and helped me find the courage to 336 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: ask the right questions before committing myself to any church. 337 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,120 Speaker 1: Sometimes people go for the lowest. You know, it's like 338 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: you were doing literally doing the least, but calling it 339 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 1: the most and so I was like, Okay, well you 340 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: can come here and you can give you know this money, 341 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: and you could do this. And it's like, yeah, but 342 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: can I serve? Can I sit in the pulpit? Can 343 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: a person preach here? Will you do a same gender 344 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: wedding here? Will you celebrate the birth of a child 345 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: in this family in the same way that you celebrate 346 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: the birth of a child in that family When you 347 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: have identified the individuals who are going to be god 348 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: parents for a child, you know, will all of the 349 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: members of the community be welcome at the altar and 350 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: celebrated in their relationships with this child? Like, what are 351 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: the ways that you communicate to anybody who comes through 352 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: the door that this isn't just a space where you're 353 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: going to be tolerated, but this is a space where 354 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: you will be celebrated as a beloved child of God. Yeah. 355 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: I'm glad you make that distinction because I was being 356 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: tolerated at Hillsong, where I was allowed to do certain things, 357 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: but there was a limit to what I could do. 358 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: But they wouldn't tell me the limit. They just said 359 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: there was a limit. And I need a place where 360 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: I'm being celebrated because this is what I need in 361 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: my life, and everyone should be celebrated as human beings. 362 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: So can I ask you a question? Yeah, and then 363 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:17,479 Speaker 1: I'll ask you one final question close. I remember years 364 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: ago there's an organization in the United Church of Christ 365 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: that is called the Coalition, and it is the grouping 366 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 1: of churches who self identified as open and affirming right. 367 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: And so they're all a part of this coalition, the 368 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: LGBTQ Coalition, and they would have an annual gathering in 369 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: our denomination, separate from the gathering that the larger church 370 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: would have, and one year at that gathering, they talked 371 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: about righteous indignation and lamentation as spiritual practices, like how 372 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: essential it was for people of faith to be able 373 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: to not only acknowledge the rage that some of us 374 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: carry based on things that have happened, but to be 375 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: able to lament the pain that those actions have created, 376 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: to lament the damage that's done to our psyche, to 377 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: our spirit, to our physical bodies, and to understand that 378 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: as a part of our faith, to understand that as 379 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: a part of our walk and our journey. And so 380 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: you talked a little bit about starting to experience that anger, 381 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: But I wonder, like, how have you expressed that. Where 382 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: are the spaces where you've given yourself permission to lament 383 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: that you know the damage that was done to you, Like, 384 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: how are you managing that particular part of the energy. 385 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,919 Speaker 1: Once I was able to get out and I listened 386 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: to my body for the first time because I was 387 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: taught to discus because my body was deceit And when 388 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: I finally reconnected with my body, it all fell and 389 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: I started to cry, and I started to realize and 390 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: lament the money that I spent having to heal that 391 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: welcome home was the most expensive thing I fell for, 392 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: that big sign that they have at the entrance. I 393 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: started to lament the friends, the people that I welcomed 394 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: in and told them it was a safe space, because 395 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: I knew that I was responsible for now them having 396 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: to experience an unsafe space for everyone I had a 397 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: responsibility in their story now and accountability, and to lament 398 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: the lack of qualified leadership around me. Yeah, I think 399 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: the lament of losing hundreds of friends, people that I 400 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: thought were my friends, and then ghosting me, blocking me 401 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 1: on social media when I started to speak out, Because 402 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: when I started to speak out. That's where my rage 403 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: came out. Often, rage and lament can go hand in hand, 404 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: and we should allow ourselves to lament, but there's also 405 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 1: this righteous anger that comes along with it. And I 406 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 1: was able to do a lot of that through social 407 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: media because that's where I found a community of ex 408 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: Hillsong members, like my friend Tiffany, like my friend Janice, 409 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: all these people around me that we're also having this 410 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: righteous anger of you fucked us over and excuse my language, 411 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: but yeah, like you fucked us over and we are 412 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: now having to go to psychiatric hospitals, we are now 413 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: having to spend all this money. Where's our accountability? Where's 414 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: our money? Where are all the tides that we gave 415 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: to you, Where's all the free labor that we gave 416 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: to you? Because I would be there for hours on 417 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: end on Sundays and even during the week. So that's 418 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: where righteous anger and tagging pastors on social media and 419 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: for them to finally have someone calling them out. And 420 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: from that righteous anger, we saw the domino effect of 421 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: people listening to the point of where we are here today, 422 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: of the global senior pastor of Hillsong Church having been 423 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: fired and removed with his wife churches closing down and 424 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: disassociating with Hillsong. We're seeing this domino effect of all 425 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: these people is screaming and yelling and lamenting and having 426 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: their righteous anger. And I am one of them, and 427 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: we've seen the effect of what that is and it's 428 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: been very healing and heartwarming to see. Yeah, and there 429 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: is so much power that calms when we can channel 430 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: our anger and our rage. Rage will get you up 431 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 1: in the morning, it will cause you stay up late 432 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: at night sometimes to make sure that you communicate clearly 433 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: that something has happened that should not have happened. And 434 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: love is a powerful emotion. I'm not doing the either or, 435 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: but you can only have one or the other. But 436 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: sometimes that anger, that rage, you know, we celebrate it 437 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: when we talk about mama bears, you know, who are 438 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: protecting their children, and that way rage is a good thing. 439 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: But we need to talk about the way that rage 440 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: is also helpful and useful to us to undo some 441 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: systems and some practices and behaviors that have just done 442 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: too much. Damna. So I'm with you, Okay, thank you 443 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: for answering that question. That was church for me. I'm good. 444 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: My last question for you. If you could give advice 445 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: to anyone who's listening and is in a church that 446 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: is not affirming, what would you say? I would call 447 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: them beloved, and I would say you are loved beyond 448 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: measure now because of anything you do, or anything you produce, 449 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: or anything you say, but simply because you are and 450 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: you deserve to be in a place where you are 451 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: embraced and celebrate it and affirmed for who you are. 452 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: And if you are not receiving that right now, I 453 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: invite you to find a place where people can celebrate 454 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: the magnificent creation of the divine that you are. And 455 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,479 Speaker 1: God speed until you find that place. Thank you so 456 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: much for being here with me and for sharing this space, 457 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: and for creating this little safe space we've created. You 458 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: and I hear in this conversation. I think it really 459 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: a came full circle for me that rage was really 460 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,239 Speaker 1: important to me and getting out of a situation I 461 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,479 Speaker 1: knew was harming me. It would be nice to end 462 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: my story to say, one day I just walked out 463 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: of Hillsong, But life isn't like that, and leaving wasn't easy, 464 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: it was messy. I went back because they were my family, 465 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: They were the people I thought were my family, and 466 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: when you're in a crisis, you often want to be 467 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: surrounded by your family, by your friends, the people that 468 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: you know. And so I went to church that Sunday 469 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: because that's where I felt like you needed to be. Now, 470 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: there are people who have experiences when they leave and 471 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: they are gone, but I'm not one of those one 472 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: of the people who, yeah, it was it was a 473 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: messy experience. And I did end up going back twice 474 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: or three times, I don't remember even, which is good 475 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,719 Speaker 1: that I don't remember, because that says a lot. And 476 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: I remember the last sermon that I heard there. Carl 477 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: was preaching from New York. They were showing him live 478 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: in Boston, and he talks about labels and the day 479 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: of putting labels on and that we should only use 480 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: the label of child of Christ. And hearing that really 481 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: like showed me that that was in a safe space 482 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: for me. Like, what am I doing here? If you're 483 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: listening to this and you're identifying with a lot of it, 484 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: and I'm helping you feel validated in your feelings of 485 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: what you're going through currently, you can get out. I'm 486 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: here to tell you there is an exit door. And 487 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: the exit door is really bright and it says e 488 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: x I, and you can turn around and see the 489 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: exit and get up and go. There is hope outside 490 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: of it. You will find family outside of it. You 491 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: will find friends outside of it. I had that fear, 492 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: and I worthy and deserving of better. And when I 493 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: recognize that I am worthy and you are too, yeah, 494 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: you can get up and go. In the next episode, 495 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: I've organized the Hillsong Reunion. I'm heading to New York City, 496 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: the place where so much bad happened within Hillsong. I 497 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: haven't been to the city since I left the church. 498 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: There were too many painful memories. But this reunion is 499 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: all about the people who stood up, spoke out, and 500 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: won't stop fighting for answers.