WEBVTT - Freedom After a Lifetime of Secrets 0:00:14.956 --> 0:00:15.396 Pushkin. 0:00:30.676 --> 0:00:34.916 All I think about besides my kids, are these pills? 0:00:35.036 --> 0:00:36.636 How many can I take? When can I take them? 0:00:36.636 --> 0:00:38.196 Where can I get them? How can I keep it 0:00:38.236 --> 0:00:43.716 a secret? I was a full blown attic and I 0:00:43.876 --> 0:00:46.436 was a full time mom. 0:00:47.676 --> 0:00:51.396 Shortly after Laura Cathcart Robins had her second child, she 0:00:51.516 --> 0:00:56.396 developed a crippling anxiety disorder and severe insomnia. Within a 0:00:56.436 --> 0:01:00.876 few years, she was addicted to sleeping pills. Laura was ashamed. 0:01:01.436 --> 0:01:03.916 She felt like motherhood came so much more easily to 0:01:03.996 --> 0:01:07.236 her friends, and so for years she kept her addiction 0:01:07.316 --> 0:01:10.916 a secret, until one day she reached a breaking point. 0:01:11.836 --> 0:01:15.636 The mom that I imagine myself to be that I needed 0:01:15.676 --> 0:01:21.276 everyone to see me as failed. That image shattered. 0:01:24.796 --> 0:01:28.796 On today's episode when the mask of perfection falls away, 0:01:32.156 --> 0:01:35.156 I'm Maya Shunker and this is a slight change of plans, 0:01:35.636 --> 0:01:37.916 a show about who we are and who we become 0:01:38.156 --> 0:01:51.556 in the face of a big change. Laura wrote a 0:01:51.556 --> 0:01:55.156 memoir called Stash My Life in Hiding, and in it 0:01:55.276 --> 0:01:58.836 she describes a difficult childhood and how she eventually worked 0:01:58.836 --> 0:02:02.356 her way into an entertainment publicist job in Los Angeles. 0:02:03.036 --> 0:02:06.076 That's where she met her husband, a film and TV producer, 0:02:06.596 --> 0:02:10.316 and they became a sort of Hollywood power couple. Laura 0:02:10.356 --> 0:02:14.636 loved the glissy, fantastical world of entertainment, a world where 0:02:14.676 --> 0:02:17.036 she could hang out on TV sets and catch a 0:02:17.156 --> 0:02:19.756 ride with celebrities on their private jets. 0:02:20.556 --> 0:02:22.836 I was new to this world. 0:02:23.516 --> 0:02:23.716 You know. 0:02:23.796 --> 0:02:25.916 The world I had grown up in was very poor. 0:02:26.116 --> 0:02:30.196 My mother was on welfare, like shoplifting groceries on welfare 0:02:30.476 --> 0:02:33.996 kind of thing. So this very lux world was new 0:02:34.036 --> 0:02:36.276 to me and very glamorous. And I had grown up 0:02:36.316 --> 0:02:39.156 in front of the TV. Everything that I wanted to 0:02:39.196 --> 0:02:42.236 be was on television, and so now here I was 0:02:42.276 --> 0:02:44.716 immersed in this world that I had grown up watching, 0:02:45.596 --> 0:02:47.556 and I embraced that. 0:02:47.676 --> 0:02:50.676 Moment you mentioned that everything you wanted to be was 0:02:50.676 --> 0:02:52.596 on TV, tell me a bit more about that. What 0:02:52.636 --> 0:02:53.316 do you mean by that? 0:02:54.156 --> 0:02:57.156 I mean, that's how I knew what adults were like. 0:02:57.276 --> 0:03:00.316 That's how I knew what adults did. Like all these 0:03:00.356 --> 0:03:04.556 different aspects of who one could be. One could be 0:03:04.676 --> 0:03:06.916 someone who worked for the city, or you know, when 0:03:06.916 --> 0:03:08.876 the Cosby Show came along, you could be a doctor 0:03:08.876 --> 0:03:10.756 in a lawyer, even if you were black. You know, 0:03:10.876 --> 0:03:14.476 like all these things opened up, all these possibilities for me. 0:03:15.196 --> 0:03:18.876 But I also loved the shows themselves. I loved the actors, 0:03:19.036 --> 0:03:22.196 I loved the idea of the costumes and what went 0:03:22.236 --> 0:03:25.676 behind them. I was able to really enjoy both sides 0:03:25.716 --> 0:03:28.676 of it, the fantasy aspect and the reality of what 0:03:28.716 --> 0:03:29.916 it took to make the shows. 0:03:31.476 --> 0:03:34.836 And I mean, I know you had a really challenging childhood. 0:03:34.876 --> 0:03:38.476 You had a verbally abusive stepfather, and you mentioned getting 0:03:38.476 --> 0:03:42.036 swept up in the fantasy of TV. Was TV and 0:03:42.076 --> 0:03:44.596 these visions of adult life a form of escapism for you? 0:03:45.076 --> 0:03:49.676 One hundred percent? I absolutely went there to escape from 0:03:49.716 --> 0:03:52.196 the reality of what was going on in my home, 0:03:52.236 --> 0:03:55.796 which was emotional abuse. Like you said, so. 0:03:55.756 --> 0:03:59.876 You're living this really glamorous Hollywood life and your husband 0:03:59.876 --> 0:04:01.596 are living it up. And so tell me a little 0:04:01.596 --> 0:04:04.636 bit more about what motivated you to become a mom. 0:04:05.476 --> 0:04:08.996 I don't ever remember being that child or that teenager, 0:04:09.196 --> 0:04:12.356 that young adult who was like I want to have babies, 0:04:12.596 --> 0:04:15.796 like I can't wait to have babies. That was really 0:04:15.836 --> 0:04:18.316 never me. I never really took much interest in other 0:04:18.316 --> 0:04:23.156 people's children. I was not the babysitting kid, but I assumed, 0:04:23.716 --> 0:04:26.876 you know, again, going back to television, this is what happens, right. 0:04:27.436 --> 0:04:29.716 You fall in love, you get married, you have kids. 0:04:30.036 --> 0:04:32.596 So that was going to be next for me. I 0:04:32.636 --> 0:04:35.236 wasn't at verse to it. I just didn't want it. 0:04:35.836 --> 0:04:38.156 I didn't want it the way I wanted the other things, 0:04:38.236 --> 0:04:43.596 like the glamour, my career, the stability, the romance and it. 0:04:43.796 --> 0:04:46.956 You know, I have a peer group and they were 0:04:46.996 --> 0:04:50.916 all getting married and excited about having kids, you know. 0:04:51.076 --> 0:04:54.036 And part of my deal growing up in my house 0:04:54.196 --> 0:05:00.276 was that, because it was a violent home, not standing out, 0:05:00.636 --> 0:05:04.596 keeping myself small allowed me to survive in my home, 0:05:05.436 --> 0:05:07.876 and I carried that with me into adulthood. I didn't 0:05:07.916 --> 0:05:10.276 want to stand out from my peers in that way. 0:05:10.716 --> 0:05:12.876 I wanted to want the same things they wanted, or 0:05:12.876 --> 0:05:14.876 at least I wanted it to look like I did. 0:05:16.276 --> 0:05:20.836 So you mentioned the context around your stepfather and never 0:05:20.876 --> 0:05:23.436 wanting to stand out right because that might come with 0:05:23.556 --> 0:05:26.836 punishment towards I mean verbal punishment for you, and then 0:05:26.956 --> 0:05:31.356 from what I've read, physical violence towards your mother. Were 0:05:31.396 --> 0:05:33.676 there any other factors based on how you grew up 0:05:33.876 --> 0:05:35.636 that led you to not want to stand out? 0:05:36.516 --> 0:05:39.276 I think really it all kind of stems from the 0:05:39.316 --> 0:05:41.956 way that it was in my home, and the way 0:05:41.996 --> 0:05:43.836 that I was in my home is just like you know, 0:05:43.876 --> 0:05:46.516 who I was authentically just rubbed him the wrong way, 0:05:47.356 --> 0:05:51.396 so I could be another version of myself, an edited version, 0:05:51.476 --> 0:05:54.996 and be okay. I certainly took that out into the 0:05:55.036 --> 0:05:59.916 world with me, right, So I learned to edit anything 0:06:00.196 --> 0:06:03.476 that either didn't blend in or made me stand out, 0:06:03.596 --> 0:06:09.356 or that seemed to not be met with enthusiasm, you know. 0:06:09.356 --> 0:06:11.396 And I was the only black kid in my entire 0:06:11.436 --> 0:06:14.596 school for a long time. My day to day was 0:06:14.916 --> 0:06:18.116 I was surrounded by all white kids, and that's another 0:06:18.156 --> 0:06:20.236 reason for me not to want to stand out. And 0:06:21.676 --> 0:06:24.636 I have an undiagnosed language based learning disorder. Is what 0:06:24.716 --> 0:06:29.116 I believe. Can't do math, can't figure out numbers, never could. 0:06:30.116 --> 0:06:32.396 By the time I got to Hay School, I was 0:06:32.476 --> 0:06:36.156 hiding my inability, you know, my confusion around math and 0:06:36.156 --> 0:06:39.556 the inability to even just do a simple problem. So 0:06:39.636 --> 0:06:42.236 I dropped out in the tenth grade because I started 0:06:42.316 --> 0:06:47.716 failing all my classes and didn't really tell people about that. 0:06:47.796 --> 0:06:50.436 I kept showing up to campus like I was still 0:06:50.436 --> 0:06:53.836 going to class for a while and I wasn't. And 0:06:53.916 --> 0:06:56.916 so all these things, right, this the way that I 0:06:57.036 --> 0:06:59.916 was being the only black person in my school, being 0:06:59.956 --> 0:07:02.516 the only one who dropped out, being the only one 0:07:02.556 --> 0:07:05.916 who never went to college. All these things were things 0:07:05.956 --> 0:07:11.116 that I felt like I needed to contain somewhere far 0:07:11.156 --> 0:07:13.036 away so that no one would ever discover it. 0:07:13.796 --> 0:07:15.436 Yeah, it makes so much sense. You're hiding, and you're 0:07:15.476 --> 0:07:18.556 also you're playing the part, yes, of what you feel 0:07:18.596 --> 0:07:22.316 other people expect of you or are performing themselves. And 0:07:22.356 --> 0:07:24.836 so as we discussed the next correct step for you 0:07:25.156 --> 0:07:27.796 was to have kids, and you ended up having two 0:07:27.876 --> 0:07:32.956 boys within a two year timeframe. Laura, what was the 0:07:33.036 --> 0:07:36.236 experience like for you after your second was born and 0:07:37.316 --> 0:07:39.236 what role did your expectations play in all of this 0:07:39.316 --> 0:07:40.596 around what you thought it was going to be? 0:07:40.716 --> 0:07:45.116 Like, Yeah, so you know, I I told you all 0:07:45.156 --> 0:07:47.676 the things that I wasn't just now that I wasn't 0:07:47.676 --> 0:07:50.836 a college graduate. I wasn't a high school graduate. But 0:07:52.196 --> 0:07:54.516 because I had hustled my whole life, and because I 0:07:54.716 --> 0:07:57.276 figured things out, and because I had done really well 0:07:57.316 --> 0:08:00.996 in my career, I was just going to slay motherhood, 0:08:01.196 --> 0:08:03.916 like for sure, that's a given. This is the next 0:08:04.036 --> 0:08:07.596 challenge to bring it on. Like I didn't have any 0:08:07.636 --> 0:08:11.276 experience with it, but I had been and I had 0:08:11.316 --> 0:08:16.436 seen other people doing it. So I was told it 0:08:16.516 --> 0:08:19.396 was going to be hard by my peers. I was 0:08:19.476 --> 0:08:21.396 told it was going to be hard by my mom. 0:08:21.916 --> 0:08:24.716 I did not believe any of them. I just felt 0:08:24.716 --> 0:08:26.996 like I have the whole package to be able to 0:08:27.156 --> 0:08:34.916 really do great. And I was really surprised by how 0:08:34.996 --> 0:08:37.476 not great. Now I shouldn't say that I wasn't great, 0:08:38.436 --> 0:08:42.756 but how ill equipped I felt, And especially after my 0:08:42.796 --> 0:08:47.916 second son was born, I remember that whole time period. 0:08:48.196 --> 0:08:51.596 Is like I remember the first time I went under 0:08:51.636 --> 0:08:54.356 the water in the ocean and the waves were kind 0:08:54.356 --> 0:08:56.876 of moving me around and I could see like the 0:08:56.876 --> 0:09:00.876 bubbles going up, and I really was just like I'm lost, 0:09:01.196 --> 0:09:04.156 Like I was scared, right. I remember that feeling of 0:09:04.236 --> 0:09:07.596 kind of being clobbered by it and taken under, And 0:09:07.636 --> 0:09:10.756 that's what it felt like to me. I was doing 0:09:11.756 --> 0:09:16.036 everything that I was supposed to be doing. I looked 0:09:16.196 --> 0:09:18.676 like I was okay, but I felt like I was 0:09:18.796 --> 0:09:23.516 underneath the waves getting cloppered. Being a new mom among 0:09:23.596 --> 0:09:28.356 other new moms, was or just other mothers? Was I 0:09:28.356 --> 0:09:33.396 mean that I'm going to use the word humiliating, And 0:09:33.476 --> 0:09:35.676 I don't know that it's quite accurate, but that's the 0:09:35.716 --> 0:09:40.556 way it felt at times, and I needed desperately to 0:09:40.676 --> 0:09:44.276 hide my ineptness around them. I didn't know how to 0:09:44.356 --> 0:09:48.316 do what they did. I was always comparing what I 0:09:48.436 --> 0:09:51.036 was doing with them, and I felt like I was 0:09:51.076 --> 0:09:54.276 always coming up short. But I wouldn't let anybody see that. 0:09:55.236 --> 0:09:59.236 It just wasn't anything that I had imagined it would be. 0:09:59.636 --> 0:10:04.036 It really wasn't. And as I had prepared for a 0:10:04.036 --> 0:10:06.316 lot of things in my life, I wasn't prepared for this. 0:10:08.076 --> 0:10:11.836 I have kids that it just really didn't sleep well 0:10:12.476 --> 0:10:16.716 unless I was near them, which you know, maybe my fault, 0:10:16.836 --> 0:10:19.436 maybe not my fault, maybe just how way they were designed. 0:10:19.476 --> 0:10:23.236 But they would only really knock out when they were 0:10:23.236 --> 0:10:26.836 in my presence. So putting them to bed meant, you know, 0:10:27.516 --> 0:10:30.556 two hours later, one of them starts crying, wakes the 0:10:30.596 --> 0:10:33.916 other one up. Toddler comes running in. He's wet is bed, 0:10:34.676 --> 0:10:36.516 So now I have to change that. I put him 0:10:36.516 --> 0:10:39.076 in mind while I'm changing his so maybe he can 0:10:39.116 --> 0:10:43.636 stay sedated, you know, like and and he hops up 0:10:43.676 --> 0:10:46.556 and down. The other ones up and so it was 0:10:46.596 --> 0:10:48.956 like that. It was like, you know, all night long, 0:10:48.996 --> 0:10:52.476 I was changing sheets, I was changing beds. Eventually, at 0:10:52.476 --> 0:10:54.716 the end of the night, I was bringing them both 0:10:54.836 --> 0:10:57.636 into bed with me. That's the way it went. I 0:10:57.676 --> 0:11:00.516 didn't know what else to do yet, know how I 0:11:00.636 --> 0:11:02.476 was going to get the three hours of sleep I 0:11:02.516 --> 0:11:04.516 was going to need in order to start the day 0:11:04.516 --> 0:11:07.916 over the next day. Because my husband was usually working, 0:11:08.196 --> 0:11:10.716 he was out of the house, you know, and he 0:11:10.836 --> 0:11:15.116 was back late, and so I was on again come 0:11:15.196 --> 0:11:17.956 seven am. It wasn't like I had the day off 0:11:18.076 --> 0:11:19.196 after being up all night. 0:11:19.276 --> 0:11:24.196 Basically, yeah, you know, it's so interesting when we think 0:11:24.196 --> 0:11:28.876 about ideals of motherhood and models of motherhood, because I 0:11:28.996 --> 0:11:31.556 still heard in the language you use culpability. You said, 0:11:31.596 --> 0:11:33.476 I have two kids that just didn't really sleep, and 0:11:33.516 --> 0:11:36.596 like maybe it was my fault, maybe it wasn't. And 0:11:36.636 --> 0:11:39.716 I think that's part of the challenge. And I see 0:11:39.876 --> 0:11:42.756 women especially, I think maybe parents do this across the board, 0:11:42.836 --> 0:11:48.356 but they feel this sense of moral responsibility and blame 0:11:48.676 --> 0:11:52.356 no matter what the outcomes, and it just strikes me 0:11:52.396 --> 0:11:54.756 that it can really set everyone up for failure. It's 0:11:54.756 --> 0:11:55.756 an unreasonable goal. 0:11:57.276 --> 0:12:02.836 I heard myself say that too, and I I think 0:12:02.916 --> 0:12:08.556 that that fault finding, especially with parenting. It feels like 0:12:08.676 --> 0:12:12.516 everyone feels like that's their job. Yeah, totally into what's 0:12:12.556 --> 0:12:14.436 going on with you and your kids, and then they 0:12:14.476 --> 0:12:18.276 want to be able to diagnose it, say whose fault 0:12:18.276 --> 0:12:21.156 it is, and then give you the solution, right, Yeah, 0:12:21.436 --> 0:12:26.676 and usually unsolicited. So this is another reason, and thank 0:12:26.716 --> 0:12:29.116 you for bringing that up. Why I didn't let people 0:12:29.156 --> 0:12:34.356 see that I was struggling. I didn't want that invasion 0:12:34.436 --> 0:12:37.596 into what I was doing. I didn't want the unsolicited advice. 0:12:37.676 --> 0:12:40.276 I didn't want to try what worked for them. 0:12:40.876 --> 0:12:44.476 Yeah, when you when you had images in your mind 0:12:44.716 --> 0:12:49.676 of the perfect ideal mom, the perfect Laura in her 0:12:49.756 --> 0:12:52.396 role as mother, what did that look like to you? 0:12:53.716 --> 0:12:57.316 So it definitely looked like getting myself together before I 0:12:57.396 --> 0:13:00.436 left the house, looking like a together person when I 0:13:00.596 --> 0:13:04.916 dropped off my kids, being interested in, being involved in 0:13:04.996 --> 0:13:08.716 whatever they were doing, being the type of parent that 0:13:08.796 --> 0:13:12.276 other parents could count on, being the person who had 0:13:12.316 --> 0:13:15.956 the house that everybody's kids wanted to go to, being 0:13:16.036 --> 0:13:19.756 the field trip parent, you know, being like those were 0:13:19.756 --> 0:13:23.356 the parents I saw and emulated. I wanted to be 0:13:23.596 --> 0:13:27.356 like them. The missing ingredient, I think from you, because 0:13:27.396 --> 0:13:32.356 I did all that stuff was cheerfully. I wanted to 0:13:32.476 --> 0:13:35.036 cheerfully be the mom who showed up. I wanted it 0:13:35.076 --> 0:13:38.676 to be genuine. I didn't want to just go through 0:13:38.676 --> 0:13:41.116 the motions doing that stuff, which is what I was doing. 0:13:42.276 --> 0:13:45.276 I really wanted to do it cheerfully, and I didn't. 0:13:45.476 --> 0:13:48.636 That was the ingredient. I couldn't figure out how to 0:13:48.676 --> 0:13:51.316 source it, Like where does that come from? When you're 0:13:51.356 --> 0:13:54.956 exhausted from the night before and you're exhausted all day long? 0:13:54.996 --> 0:13:55.996 I didn't understand. 0:13:57.116 --> 0:13:59.716 It strikes me that it's a really tall order for 0:13:59.876 --> 0:14:03.116 Laura to be telling herself, you not only need to 0:14:03.156 --> 0:14:07.356 do all these things that embody perfect motherhood, you need 0:14:07.396 --> 0:14:09.836 to want to want to do all those things right. 0:14:10.516 --> 0:14:12.476 And I'm just so curious to know. I mean, where 0:14:12.516 --> 0:14:15.316 did those high expectations come from? Like? Why were you 0:14:15.396 --> 0:14:17.636 expecting this of yourself? 0:14:19.356 --> 0:14:23.876 The best I can figure is that because my ex 0:14:23.996 --> 0:14:27.796 husband and I were were this interracial power couple in Hollywood, 0:14:27.956 --> 0:14:32.516 we enjoyed this status, you know, and I did enjoy it. 0:14:32.596 --> 0:14:36.676 I very much enjoyed it and the status of you know, obviously, 0:14:36.676 --> 0:14:39.596 no one's perfect, but it felt like people always said 0:14:39.596 --> 0:14:41.916 that to us, you guys are the perfect couple. You 0:14:41.916 --> 0:14:44.276 guys had the perfect marriage, you had the perfect wedding, 0:14:45.076 --> 0:14:48.356 and it was like perfect, perfect, perfect, And it just 0:14:48.556 --> 0:14:51.956 followed to me. It tracked that I should then be 0:14:51.996 --> 0:14:56.596 the perfect mom, right, the mom who hears all these 0:14:56.636 --> 0:15:00.196 same compliments. You're the perfect mom. I wish I could 0:15:00.196 --> 0:15:03.756 be more like you. You're always here, You're always there, You're 0:15:03.756 --> 0:15:07.236 always doing this. And I did see women doing the 0:15:07.276 --> 0:15:10.916 things that I was doing before I started doing them. 0:15:10.956 --> 0:15:13.716 I was watching and observing kind of like, this is 0:15:13.796 --> 0:15:18.196 the path for the dope moms, right, All the cool 0:15:18.276 --> 0:15:20.916 moms are on this path. The ones that are off 0:15:20.956 --> 0:15:25.236 that path aren't as well regarded. The ones who openly 0:15:25.316 --> 0:15:31.476 talked about having postpartum anything were secretly judged by small groups. 0:15:31.876 --> 0:15:34.956 I'm sure I was included in those groups. Yeah, So 0:15:35.396 --> 0:15:37.876 like things like that, I didn't want to be that knew, 0:15:38.076 --> 0:15:40.156 I knew what it was like. I wanted to be 0:15:40.316 --> 0:15:44.676 on that path toward being like the epitome the cool mom. 0:15:46.156 --> 0:15:47.676 So you mentioned, you know, by the end of the night, 0:15:47.916 --> 0:15:49.876 every night your boys end up in the bed with you, 0:15:49.956 --> 0:15:52.596 and you were full time caregiver at this point because 0:15:52.636 --> 0:15:56.676 your husband's either working or traveling. You ended up developing 0:15:57.036 --> 0:15:58.996 pretty debilitating insomnia. 0:16:00.196 --> 0:16:04.196 I had this anxiety that's not the typical anxiety I 0:16:04.236 --> 0:16:08.076 hear new parents talking about. I wasn't like worried they 0:16:08.076 --> 0:16:10.516 weren't breathing or were something was going to happen to 0:16:10.556 --> 0:16:13.276 them all the time. That wasn't my worry. My worry 0:16:13.516 --> 0:16:14.996 was that they were going to meet me and I 0:16:15.076 --> 0:16:20.316 wasn't going to hear them. That killed me. The idea 0:16:20.956 --> 0:16:23.556 that they would wake up and say mommy or cry 0:16:23.836 --> 0:16:27.076 and I might not hear them, or they might cry 0:16:27.116 --> 0:16:30.276 for too long. So I didn't know what was going 0:16:30.276 --> 0:16:33.276 on with me, but I I was on edge. I 0:16:33.436 --> 0:16:37.276 was irritable, I was anxious. I was just short tempered 0:16:37.316 --> 0:16:39.556 with everybody, and I just wanted everybody to go away 0:16:39.876 --> 0:16:44.156 except for my kids. And I wanted to cry maya 0:16:44.236 --> 0:16:46.156 in the middle of those nights, like you know, the 0:16:46.196 --> 0:16:48.796 second change of sheets. Most of the time, I would 0:16:48.796 --> 0:16:51.796 sit there just almost like you know, like dry heaving 0:16:51.836 --> 0:16:54.356 to throw up. I would be like dry crying, like 0:16:54.756 --> 0:16:57.716 just like it wouldn't come out. I was so depleted, 0:16:57.756 --> 0:17:01.076 I wouldn't even have tears. And so I saw a doctor, 0:17:01.876 --> 0:17:04.676 and you know, I told him what was going on, 0:17:04.756 --> 0:17:06.756 and He's like, so, how long has it been since 0:17:06.796 --> 0:17:09.636 you haven't slept? And I told him and he's like, okay, 0:17:09.716 --> 0:17:12.356 we got to get you sleeping first. I can't even 0:17:12.436 --> 0:17:15.956 diagnose you until we've gotten you sleeping for a little bit. 0:17:16.596 --> 0:17:19.276 And he gave me a pill that I had never 0:17:19.316 --> 0:17:21.156 heard of at the time. You know, this was in 0:17:21.196 --> 0:17:28.916 the early two thousands, called Ambion, and I took it 0:17:29.316 --> 0:17:34.756 that night. You know, I'm sitting there waiting for this 0:17:34.876 --> 0:17:38.956 pill to take effect, hoping for sleep, and then this 0:17:39.076 --> 0:17:44.116 heat starts rising behind my eyes. And at first it's 0:17:44.156 --> 0:17:47.356 a little scary because I hadn't experienced anything like that. 0:17:47.756 --> 0:17:53.476 It feels like warm oil is just entering my body 0:17:53.636 --> 0:17:58.516 and flowing through me. It was the most incredible feeling 0:17:58.676 --> 0:18:02.276 that I've ever had. But the thing that followed was 0:18:02.316 --> 0:18:06.476 even better. Everything clicked off. The alarm bell that had 0:18:06.516 --> 0:18:09.556 been ringing in my head for two plus this year 0:18:09.556 --> 0:18:13.716 is stopped ringing. The first time it was silenced, And 0:18:15.116 --> 0:18:17.716 I mean, I can't tell you what that meant like, 0:18:17.916 --> 0:18:20.196 to not know that there's an alarm bell ringing in 0:18:20.236 --> 0:18:22.236 your head for two years, to not know that your 0:18:22.276 --> 0:18:25.876 nerve endings are frayed and on edge and then it 0:18:25.956 --> 0:18:31.876 was just, ah, this is what's been missing. I felt 0:18:31.996 --> 0:18:34.716 freed in that moment in a way that I hadn't 0:18:34.756 --> 0:18:39.396 been before, and I realized, oh my goodness, with this, 0:18:40.316 --> 0:18:43.476 I can be that mom that my kids deserve, you know, 0:18:43.556 --> 0:18:45.676 not the one who's just going through the motions every 0:18:45.756 --> 0:18:49.036 day doing what she needs to do. I can be 0:18:49.156 --> 0:18:52.036 the mom who wants to do this stuff. And I 0:18:52.116 --> 0:18:54.756 wanted to just grab up my kids and say, I 0:18:54.796 --> 0:18:58.116 am so sorry I've been this crazy mom. Things are 0:18:58.156 --> 0:19:01.556 going to be different, We're all going to be okay. 0:19:02.556 --> 0:19:07.476 Yeah, So how did your relationship then with Ambion evolve 0:19:07.476 --> 0:19:08.036 over time? 0:19:09.236 --> 0:19:12.716 So after that first night, that blissful sleep, I woke 0:19:12.796 --> 0:19:16.076 up and the first thing that popped into my head 0:19:16.116 --> 0:19:20.916 two words again please. Like I said, I had this 0:19:21.076 --> 0:19:23.076 kind of new lease on life and I wanted to 0:19:24.116 --> 0:19:27.116 go and experience that with my kids because I felt rested. 0:19:27.796 --> 0:19:31.156 And you know, for anybody insomnia or not, when you 0:19:31.236 --> 0:19:34.636 have a good night's sleep, yeah, feeling of being rested 0:19:34.876 --> 0:19:37.436 and ready to tackle the day is like if we 0:19:37.436 --> 0:19:40.716 could bottle that, put in a little pill. No, but 0:19:40.836 --> 0:19:43.636 it's just the best feeling. So I had that feeling. 0:19:44.636 --> 0:19:48.316 I didn't feel like I needed to take another one 0:19:48.396 --> 0:19:52.796 right away, but I wanted to, but I didn't feel 0:19:52.836 --> 0:19:56.076 like I needed to. And at that point where I 0:19:56.276 --> 0:20:00.196 was and in my addiction, I think that my ability 0:20:00.236 --> 0:20:04.436 to distinguish what you need and want was clear. Like 0:20:04.516 --> 0:20:08.156 I didn't run through a bottle really quickly, not until 0:20:08.156 --> 0:20:10.396 the second year, when I I was taking them every night. 0:20:12.876 --> 0:20:15.396 As things progressed, it was like, not just one to 0:20:15.436 --> 0:20:17.676 get to sleep, but one and a half and then 0:20:17.796 --> 0:20:19.956 one half in the middle of the night when I 0:20:19.996 --> 0:20:22.556 woke up, because the wake up was now inevitable. The 0:20:22.596 --> 0:20:24.876 ambient just didn't do what it did to me earlier 0:20:24.916 --> 0:20:27.996 when I first started taking it. So this progresses over 0:20:28.036 --> 0:20:31.876 the years, and then approximately six years later, I am 0:20:32.436 --> 0:20:35.476 taking them every night. I'm taking them in the middle 0:20:35.476 --> 0:20:39.156 of the night when I wake up, and all I 0:20:39.196 --> 0:20:44.236 think about, besides my kids, are these pills. How many 0:20:44.236 --> 0:20:45.796 can I take? When can I take them? Where can 0:20:45.836 --> 0:20:49.636 I get them? How can I not be discovered? How 0:20:49.676 --> 0:20:52.756 can I keep it a secret? This is my every 0:20:52.796 --> 0:20:57.556 waking thought besides my children. And it's an obsession. It 0:20:57.596 --> 0:21:01.196 was an obsession. I believe I was fully addicted at 0:21:01.196 --> 0:21:04.516 that point. It's around this time that I start washing 0:21:04.556 --> 0:21:08.436 these pills down with vodka. I wasn't able to recapture 0:21:08.476 --> 0:21:10.916 that feeling of euphoria the way I had in the 0:21:10.996 --> 0:21:16.556 early days, and the booze really helped. You know, Benadryl 0:21:16.636 --> 0:21:19.956 came into play at some point because benadryl actually boosted 0:21:19.956 --> 0:21:24.996 the effect of it. I was a full blown at it. 0:21:25.796 --> 0:21:28.116 A junkie is what I thought of myself as in 0:21:28.196 --> 0:21:35.356 my mind, and I was a full time mom. 0:21:36.196 --> 0:21:39.036 How many ambient pills were you now taking? 0:21:39.716 --> 0:21:43.036 I was taking up to ten pills a day, which 0:21:43.756 --> 0:21:46.156 most most people don't get up off the floor after 0:21:46.196 --> 0:21:48.916 I say that, they're like what, they just faint because 0:21:48.916 --> 0:21:52.556 it's way too many pills. It's it's a lethal dosage, right, Yeah. 0:21:53.316 --> 0:21:55.876 I was not taking ten pills at one time. I 0:21:55.916 --> 0:21:59.276 was being very strategic and I would write down, you know, 0:21:59.316 --> 0:22:01.796 how many pills I had to pick up, how many 0:22:01.796 --> 0:22:04.356 refills I had. For someone who wasn't good at math, 0:22:04.396 --> 0:22:07.436 I became very good at math, and I calculated out 0:22:07.836 --> 0:22:10.796 what I could take. The thing was during the day. 0:22:10.916 --> 0:22:13.476 Even though I couldn't knock myself out with ambien because 0:22:13.516 --> 0:22:16.556 I would go to sleep, I couldn't be entirely without 0:22:16.556 --> 0:22:19.196 it either. I needed to have some of it in 0:22:19.236 --> 0:22:23.756 my system so that I would avoid a debilitating withdrawal. 0:22:24.156 --> 0:22:25.916 And if I can just tell you a little bit 0:22:25.916 --> 0:22:28.916 of what that would look like, it's like the worst 0:22:29.036 --> 0:22:35.236 stomach flew, body aches, headache, sweating, lack of appetite, not 0:22:35.356 --> 0:22:39.876 being able to make eye contact with anyone, visibly, trembling, 0:22:40.116 --> 0:22:46.516 shaky fingers, rapid heartbeat like dying is what it looked like. 0:22:46.676 --> 0:22:50.476 It looked like I should have been admitted to an er, 0:22:51.556 --> 0:22:54.556 but I wasn't. I would kind of chip away at 0:22:54.596 --> 0:22:56.476 a corner of an ambient here, a corner of an 0:22:56.476 --> 0:22:59.476 ambien there. It wouldn't take away the withdrawal, but it 0:22:59.516 --> 0:23:03.156 would make it a manageable amount of withdrawal. And I 0:23:03.156 --> 0:23:06.596 could time it. If I take this chip, which is 0:23:06.636 --> 0:23:11.396 like a corner of an ambien before lunch, then I 0:23:11.436 --> 0:23:14.516 can do an hour and ten minutes for lunch without 0:23:14.556 --> 0:23:17.516 it becoming unbearable. But then I got to get myself 0:23:17.516 --> 0:23:19.476 out of there and get myself back home. 0:23:20.076 --> 0:23:21.916 So you can take another little Yeah, if. 0:23:21.796 --> 0:23:23.956 I had enough, I would take another one. Otherwise I 0:23:23.956 --> 0:23:28.036 would just basically just endure the withdrawal at home. Oh, gosh, okay, 0:23:28.116 --> 0:23:30.236 because I needed to have enough to go to sleep 0:23:30.276 --> 0:23:31.796 at night. That was my biggest fear. 0:23:32.836 --> 0:23:36.156 Did you confide in anyone during this period of time, Laura, 0:23:36.476 --> 0:23:38.876 or like, did anyone just know what was happening? 0:23:39.516 --> 0:23:42.476 Well, not only was my husband traveling a lot at 0:23:42.476 --> 0:23:47.196 this point, but we were getting a divorce, and you know, 0:23:47.316 --> 0:23:52.196 so for him, I'm sure there was a huge sense 0:23:52.196 --> 0:23:57.436 that something was wrong. But it's hard to know, especially 0:23:57.556 --> 0:24:01.396 if you have an idea the person that you're engaged 0:24:01.436 --> 0:24:04.196 with as an addict, Right, you haven't seen this behavior 0:24:04.236 --> 0:24:06.916