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Speaker 1: And I think with Becky, I feel like Becky has

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Speaker 1: a more similar personality to me, and that is that

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Speaker 1: the girl will always land on her feet, and she

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Speaker 1: will get knocked down, but she will wipe herself off

5
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Speaker 1: and get back up again. And I would say that

6
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Speaker 1: Becky is really She's so positive, and she's so warm,

7
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Speaker 1: and she's so loving despite all of the heartache that

8
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Speaker 1: she has been exposed to, or maybe because you know,

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Speaker 1: she had two parents who really tried hard to make

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Speaker 1: her feel safe and loved. I think that she has

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Speaker 1: the right to know who her father is, and I

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Speaker 1: think just because her mother refused to tell her doesn't

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Speaker 1: make it any less valid desire to know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: any I think we all have the fundamental right to

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Speaker 1: know who our parents are, And obviously I support her

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Speaker 1: trying to find out who it.

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Speaker 2: Is that was Elena, Becky's former babysitter, who, like many

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Speaker 2: people in Becky's life, recognize that despite what she's endured

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Speaker 2: in her life and some of the choices she made

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Speaker 2: early on, she's ultimately become a fundamentally good person, the

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Speaker 2: complete opposite of who her mother is. Whatever darkness lives

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Speaker 2: inside of Diane downs and whatever that may exist genetically

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Speaker 2: inside Becky Bobcock, she's pushed past it to lead a

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Speaker 2: life and become a person who's nothing like her biological mother.

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Speaker 3: And so I think there was this sort of this

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Speaker 3: Diane shaped void inside of her that she's always trying

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Speaker 3: to bring the drugs and the men and everything too.

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Speaker 3: And I remember sensing she can't quite fill it with

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Speaker 3: what she's trying to fill it with. And so I mean,

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Speaker 3: she would talk about really sort of crying out to

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Speaker 3: God and saying, please help me. I don't know who

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Speaker 3: I really am I just the daughter of this crazy killer,

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Speaker 3: or am I this person who's going to have my

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Speaker 3: own life and my own identity and I don't want

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Speaker 3: to be known as the daughter of Diane Downs anymore.

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Speaker 3: And I think by the time we were done talking

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Speaker 3: with her, she was pretty much it felt like she

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Speaker 3: was shaking the dust of Diane off of her, because

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Speaker 3: I think she makes the decision once they have some

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Speaker 3: communication her and Diane, that she's not going to go

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Speaker 3: She's not going to go back there, which is what

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Speaker 3: Diane wanted. Please come visit me, let's talk, let's you

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Speaker 3: know whatever. And so for Becky to say, you know what,

44
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Speaker 3: I'm making the decision. I really don't want to be

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Speaker 3: involved in that, and so I have some control over

46
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Speaker 3: a few things. And this is what I'm going to do,

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Speaker 3: and it's going to feel better that I got to

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Speaker 3: do it.

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Speaker 2: From the time he met Becky and as he got

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Speaker 2: to know her, Eric Mason supported the idea of Becky

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Speaker 2: searching for her father.

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Speaker 4: Oh.

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Speaker 3: I thought it was a really good idea, because she's

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Speaker 3: looking for grounding. That's what I always felt about Becky

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Speaker 3: from the day she showed up at that pizza parlor

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Speaker 3: in Bend and I looked across the table and said, Wow,

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Speaker 3: that is Diane's daughter. And she just had so many

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Speaker 3: plans and dreams. It's like I would like to be

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Speaker 3: a nurse and I would like to help people, and

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Speaker 3: I have all these plans, and my Mercedes needs parts

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Speaker 3: and I need to get it fixed, and I need

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Speaker 3: to find a better place to live. And there was

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Speaker 3: this orbit around Becky that felt a little bit like

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Speaker 3: the orbit and the energy and the spin around Diane.

65
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Speaker 3: But certainly she had a lot more control and grounding,

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Speaker 3: and she understood that if she wasn't careful, the undertow

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Speaker 3: of all of that could pull her under and that

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Speaker 3: she'd be lost. And so I think she really was

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Speaker 3: introspective and really wanted to make changes and not be

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Speaker 3: like her mom. And so you know, she got involved

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Speaker 3: in a church, and she really did some self examination

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Speaker 3: when she would sense herself going down the rabbit hole

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Speaker 3: of drugs and men and chance meetings and all of

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Speaker 3: those things.

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Speaker 4: And she.

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Speaker 3: Would pull herself short and say, you know what, I

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Speaker 3: can't go down those roads because for my she's in

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Speaker 3: prison for the rest of her life. So I think

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Speaker 3: she wanted to make contact, some limited contact with mom,

80
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Speaker 3: but really did want to find out who her real

81
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Speaker 3: biological father was. And that made sense and it was

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Speaker 3: a good thing. I thought it was a great thing.

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Speaker 2: Michelle Leonard, the DNA detective who was key in helping

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Speaker 2: Becky confirm that she was, without a doubt, Diane Down's

85
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Speaker 2: biological daughter, reached out again, and this time with news

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Speaker 2: about Becky's paternal side.

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Speaker 5: It's been several weeks since we all convened with Michelle

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Speaker 5: at the DNA detective and Becky and now Michelle had

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Speaker 5: some breakthroughs in your case, Becky, So I wanted to

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Speaker 5: have this meeting so we could go over her findings

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Speaker 5: and I'll turn it over to you, Michelle.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Hi, Melissa, Hi, Becky H. So last time we

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Speaker 4: had a session where we talked about my first impressions

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Speaker 4: of your DNA results, and there were some important clues

95
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Speaker 4: that I was able to share with you at that

96
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Speaker 4: time about your recent immigrant ancestry coming from areas like Poland,

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Speaker 4: Ukraine and perhaps the Netherlands. But this time, what we're

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Speaker 4: going to do is much more of a deep dive

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Speaker 4: into your actual DNA matches and their ancestry, and I'm

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Speaker 4: going to go through the research I've been doing and

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Speaker 4: talk you through how I've come to certain conclusions about

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Speaker 4: your paternal ancestry.

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Speaker 2: Jumping off from the jackpot match she previously discovered, Michelle

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Speaker 2: was able to narrow down the relationship of the match.

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Speaker 4: You've spent you know, most of your life wondering about,

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Speaker 4: and to see it in black and white is a

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Speaker 4: big thing. It really is. And of course you have

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Speaker 4: what I named the jackpot match, a paternal match sharing

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Speaker 4: around the same amount of DNA as your maternal uncle. Therefore,

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Speaker 4: this is a very close paternal relative. And I had

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Speaker 4: worked out the last time that it has to either

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Speaker 4: be a paternal half sister because this is a female match,

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Speaker 4: or a paternal full aunt. The other option was grandparent,

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Speaker 4: but that doesn't work because this person is matching to

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Speaker 4: all of the different clusters of matches that I'm seeing

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Speaker 4: on your paternal side, so that means she's matching to

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Speaker 4: both your paternal grandparents. Therefore, she can only be a

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Speaker 4: paternal half sister or aunt. But of course she doesn't

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Speaker 4: have a name. She just has a user name with

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Speaker 4: a set of letters and numbers that aren't easy to decipher,

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Speaker 4: and she doesn't have a tree, So we need to

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Speaker 4: look at other matches to try to get to the

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Speaker 4: bottom of this and try and work out who she

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Speaker 4: is and who your biological father is. So if we

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Speaker 4: scroll down your match list, the first thing you're going

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Speaker 4: to know is exactly what I'm saying about all of

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Speaker 4: these maternal matches. I have been grouping your matches into

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Speaker 4: color coded clusters, if you like, So I've been putting

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Speaker 4: all the maternal matches into one group, and the maternal

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Speaker 4: matches are here, and you'll see that as you scroll down.

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Speaker 4: It's maternal, maternal, maternal, maternal, maternal, and the first useful

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Speaker 4: match that doesn't match to your maternal matches is this one.

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Speaker 4: And we're going to call this man Hugo Kowalski.

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Speaker 2: Just to note, Michelle isn't using any real names in

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Speaker 2: order to make sure the identity of Becky's paternal relatives

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Speaker 2: stay private.

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Speaker 4: So Hugo Kowalski is a pseudonym of my making, and

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Speaker 4: he is the first interesting paternal match. Now he's sharing

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Speaker 4: much less DNA than your massive jackpot match, of course,

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Speaker 4: only one hundred and thirty eight centi morgans. But if

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Speaker 4: we look at the probability chart for that, we'll see

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Speaker 4: that it tells us it's fifty percent likely that this

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Speaker 4: is a second cousin, once removed a half second cousin,

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Speaker 4: a first cousin, three times removed a half first cousin Dwight.

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Speaker 4: He's removed lots relationships there.

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Speaker 2: In order to start untangling the complicated web of potential relationships,

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Speaker 2: Michelle has to dive into the relationships and start putting

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Speaker 2: together a family tree. Sometimes the information is geographical, so

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Speaker 2: the work Michelle is doing requires more than just the

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Speaker 2: ability to analyze d and A results.

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Speaker 4: If you look at a tree and you say, okay,

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Speaker 4: here's me, here's my parent, here's my grandparent, here's my

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Speaker 4: great grandparents. So that's that number of generations removed from

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Speaker 4: the common ancestors. And then you say, okay, here's a cousin,

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Speaker 4: there's their parent, there's their grandparent, and there's the same

156
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Speaker 4: great grandparents. Okay, so we're on exactly the same level.

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Speaker 4: It is so much easier when you look at it

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Speaker 4: visually than when you're trying to explain it in words.

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Speaker 4: But it is all to do with the number of

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Speaker 4: generations away from the common ancestors between the two people.

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Speaker 4: And that's so so important in this case because we've

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Speaker 4: got all these relationships to look at, but how do

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Speaker 4: we narrow them down? So Hugo is a great match

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Speaker 4: to get on his own, but as you can see,

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Speaker 4: there's only one shared match with him, and that shared

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Speaker 4: match also has ancestry that goes back to Ukraine, but

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Speaker 4: also an area that a lot of people call Galicia,

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Speaker 4: the Galicia area of eastern Europe. So when people immigrated

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Speaker 4: from this area to the United States or other countries

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Speaker 4: in the eighteen and nineteen hundreds, often they would say

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Speaker 4: they're from Galicia, but sometimes they would say they're from Poland.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes they'd say they're from the Ukraine. Sometimes they'd say

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Speaker 4: they're from Austria. Sometimes they say they're from Hungary. It

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Speaker 4: was part of the Austro Hungarian Empire at one point.

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Speaker 4: So that's why you might see in summer older records

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Speaker 4: someone says they're from Austria when an actual fact, they're

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Speaker 4: from the Ukraine as we would know it now. So

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Speaker 4: this is the area that you have strong ancestry from,

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Speaker 4: and very recent strong ancestry from. Found a cousin, if

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Speaker 4: he is perhaps a first of one of your grandparents,

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Speaker 4: then I want to know who his parents and grandparents were. Well.

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Speaker 4: I could only get as far as his parents because

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Speaker 4: they were both immigrants and they came from the Galicia

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Speaker 4: region to Canada.

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Speaker 2: Once Michelle has names and backgrounds, she starts doing a

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Speaker 2: deep dive on social media accounts and even obituaries in

187
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Speaker 2: order to find potential relationships. Michelle continues to unpack the

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Speaker 2: relationships that unfall from this discovery, naming cousins, grandparents, aunts,

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Speaker 2: and uncles down the paternal line. The lions cross and

190
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Speaker 2: get somewhat complicated, but thanks for a visual buildout, Michelle

191
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Speaker 2: is able to keep everything together.

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Speaker 4: And I do a lot of Facebook slothing to try

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Speaker 4: and work these things. So that is a good way

194
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Speaker 4: to go. So I built a few lines out and

195
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Speaker 4: I looked at Vadim and Ella in particular, and I

196
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Speaker 4: found that they had a door. Melissa was the act

197
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Speaker 4: or of the eighteen eighties, and I traced Melissa's line

198
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Speaker 4: forward and she married a man named Walter have Lenko. Now,

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Speaker 4: this is one of these moments that I call a

200
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Speaker 4: Eureka moment because we've seen that name before. And I

201
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Speaker 4: call it a Eureka moment because it's that moment where

202
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Speaker 4: while we're building this large jigsaw puzzle and we're putting

203
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Speaker 4: these pieces on the board, two of the most important

204
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Speaker 4: pieces have come together.

205
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Speaker 2: And then Michelle's one step closer to Becky's father.

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Speaker 4: And I also was able to source John and Esther's obituaries,

207
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Speaker 4: and those obituaries told me that they only had those

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Speaker 4: two children. They only had those two daughters. Now, looking

209
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Speaker 4: at this, I was convinced at this point that these

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Speaker 4: two people are your direct ancestors. You descend directly from

211
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Speaker 4: Esther and John. You have DNA to both their of ancestors,

212
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Speaker 4: and they come together in Canada. So I believe you

213
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Speaker 4: descend from one of their children. Yes, okay, So looking

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Speaker 4: at these people Esther and John, if you descend directly

215
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Speaker 4: from them, they were born in the early nineteen hundreds

216
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Speaker 4: in the Ukraine. They emigrated to Canada, and they had

217
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Speaker 4: these two children in the nineteen thirties. You're born in

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Speaker 4: the nineteen eighties. We're looking for a biological father for you,

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Speaker 4: born around the nineteen fifties. Perhaps, therefore, this next generation,

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Speaker 4: the daughters of Esther and John, this has to be

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Speaker 4: your grandparent generation. One of these two women is almost

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Speaker 4: certainly your grandmother.

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Speaker 2: And from the grandparents, Michelle is able to narrow down

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Speaker 2: the connection even more.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so Katia, I've called her Katia Pavlenko, born

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Speaker 4: in the thirties in Canada. And guess what she went

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Speaker 4: to the United States. And guess what she did in

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Speaker 4: the United States. She got married to a man who

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Speaker 4: came from the Netherlands.

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Speaker 6: Oh.

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Speaker 4: I found they got divorced in a particular state in

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Speaker 4: the United States in the nineteen seventies. And later I

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Speaker 4: found that they had married in the fifties and they

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Speaker 4: had three children. I have used the surname Jensen for

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Speaker 4: your paternal grandfather. So I've called him Yan Jensen. He

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Speaker 4: was born in the twenties in Northern Holland in the Netherlands.

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Speaker 4: He immigrated to Canada as an infant, and in the

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Speaker 4: nineteen fifties he came to the United States permanently. But

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Speaker 4: I have found a great document from the nineteen forties

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Speaker 4: where he's crossing the border, and it actually gives us

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Speaker 4: some information on his description, a description of his appearance.

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Speaker 4: It tells us he's six foot three inches in height,

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Speaker 4: got a fair complexion, very tall, blonde, blue eyes, quite

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Speaker 4: typical Netherlands male description.

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Speaker 6: There. So a really interesting fact when I was young

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Speaker 6: and started asking questions about who my biological mother and

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Speaker 6: father were, I was actually given that exact description for

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Speaker 6: what my biological father was.

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Speaker 2: And from this description of Becky's grandfather, she understands that

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Speaker 2: the description that's been given of her biological father is

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Speaker 2: most likely accurate.

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Speaker 4: So at this point I found that Katia Pavlenko married

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Speaker 4: this Dutch Man, Yan Jensen, in the United States and

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Speaker 4: they had three children. Now, Yan passed away a few

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Speaker 4: years ago, and I did find his obituary as well,

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Speaker 4: which confirmed that he had immigrated to Canada as an

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Speaker 4: infant and had come to the United States in nineteen

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Speaker 4: fifty and that he'd lived in Oregon. Wow, and that's

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Speaker 4: where he had died. So Yan and Katya had three

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Speaker 4: children during their marriage between the nineteen fifties and the

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Speaker 4: early nineteen seventies when they divorced, and those three children Matt,

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Speaker 4: Richard and Louisa. Now, at this point I was fairly

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Speaker 4: certain on who had to be your biological father.

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Speaker 2: And now with Becky's father identified, Michelle takes a somewhat

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Speaker 2: careful approach of identifying him to Becky, starting with some

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Speaker 2: of the questions she's had.

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Speaker 4: First off, I remember that it says that he was

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Speaker 4: a little younger than Diane. That's true, he was slightly

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Speaker 4: younger than Diane. Another thing is, of course, the appearance,

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Speaker 4: the description. And I'm just going to sharing for a

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Speaker 4: second and read a couple of things here.

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Speaker 6: I just saw in there it says he's still living.

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Speaker 4: He is still alive.

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Speaker 5: Yes, Becky, how do you feel right now? I'm looking

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Speaker 5: at you on the screen.

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Speaker 2: Your face is blank. What are you thinking.

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Speaker 6: I'm trying not to cry.

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Speaker 5: Let's just take a moment.

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Speaker 2: This is really monumental, really monumental, and I don't want

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Speaker 2: this to be trivializer dismissed.

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Speaker 5: This is really massive.

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Speaker 6: He's alive, which means that he's most likely known about me,

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Speaker 6: And that's what's pretty hard for me right now. If

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Speaker 6: I remove all emotion from it, I'm super curious what

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Speaker 6: his name is, because you know, Diane had given me

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Speaker 6: a certain name, and I'd heard names over the years

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Speaker 6: and stuff. So it's I mean, there's that curiosity of

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Speaker 6: who he is with the emotional part removed, but there's

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Speaker 6: also the emotional part that's just flooding right now.

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Speaker 4: So we're at the point now where one of the

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Speaker 4: sons of Jan Jensen and Katia Pavlenko must be your

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Speaker 4: biological father. And I believe it is their son that

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Speaker 4: has been named Matt Jensen. And I'm going to go

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Speaker 4: over some of the additional evidence for that that isn't

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Speaker 4: just the DNA. I have found a description of him

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Speaker 4: which tells us that he has six foot three inches

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Speaker 4: tall and has brown hair, which completely matches the description

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Speaker 4: already given.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Additionally, there's location. This Matt Jensen is on a US

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Speaker 4: index with an address in Cottage Grove, Oregon. Now, the

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Speaker 4: date of this address isn't given, but it is prior

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Speaker 4: to nineteen ninety three, and I have tracked where he

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Speaker 4: was in the nineteen seventies. Therefore, he has to have

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Speaker 4: been living in Cottage Grove in the nineteen eighties, which

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Speaker 4: means he was in the right place at the right time.

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Speaker 2: Becky also learns that she has a half sister. Michelle

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Speaker 2: reveals this information to Becky and explains this could be

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Speaker 2: another potential point of contact.

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Speaker 5: How does that make you fail, Becky? Hearing you have

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Speaker 5: a half sister.

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Speaker 6: Hopeful Christy and Danny didn't want a relationship with me,

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Speaker 6: which I completely respected, it understood, But I mean maybe

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Speaker 6: this person might or you know, maybe it would just

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Speaker 6: be nice to know them. I mean, I don't know.

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Speaker 6: It's all a lot, it's overwhelming right now, but I'm ready.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's very hard to take such news like

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Speaker 4: this in and it takes time. It takes time to

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Speaker 4: take it in and to understand it and to come

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Speaker 4: to terms with it.

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Speaker 2: With Becky's mother being who she is, Michelle is ready

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Speaker 2: with the background information of Becky's father, confirming that he's

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Speaker 2: nothing like Diane.

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Speaker 4: I have not been able to find anything for your

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Speaker 4: biological father. Other than he's a successful man. He runs

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Speaker 4: a business. There's no criminal record. Rather than a speeding fine,

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Speaker 4: I think nothing of any That's where I got the

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Speaker 4: description of his physical features. A thirty dollars speeding fine

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Speaker 4: is the worst thing I can find for him. He

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Speaker 4: is educated, he comes across as intelligent. His daughter is

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Speaker 4: a high flying person in her chosen profession. I can't

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Speaker 4: find anything about the family that gives me any concerns

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Speaker 4: as to who they are. There's no news clippings of

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Speaker 4: him having done anything wrong at all. That's good.

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Speaker 6: So I have a question. Was he a reporter? Yes,

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Speaker 6: that's what we all thought.

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Speaker 2: And now the only step that remains for Becky is contact.

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Speaker 2: Michean and Becky avoided contacting the jack Pop Match previously

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Speaker 2: in order to prevent jeopardizing any chance Becky may have

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Speaker 2: and making contact.

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Speaker 4: Now you remember, I was very reticent contacting the Jackpot

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Speaker 4: match because I thought, if it's a half sister, we

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Speaker 4: could be opening that can of worms and taking away

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Speaker 4: his chance to tell her himself if he wanted to.

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Speaker 4: And so it's a good thing that now we know

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Speaker 4: for sure that that is who she is, that we

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Speaker 4: didn't go take that route.

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Speaker 6: I agree, because if she doesn't know, that would be

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Speaker 6: kind of a scare awakening exactly.

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Speaker 4: We could have blundered in with a message, Hey, you're

351
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Speaker 4: a close match, who are you? Blah blah blah, and

352
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Speaker 4: we might have got the answer much quicker and easier,

353
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Speaker 4: but we could have taken away your chance of having

354
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Speaker 4: any meaningful contact if that upset your biological father and

355
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Speaker 4: he decided he didn't want to know because we had

356
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Speaker 4: blundered in and told his daughter something that is Yeah.

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Speaker 2: What begins to dawn on Becky is that he's been

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Speaker 2: near her the entire time and has likely known as

359
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Speaker 2: relationships for this entire time.

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Speaker 4: In general, it's often said, especially in the United States,

361
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Speaker 4: that it's better for something personal to come in this situation.

362
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Speaker 4: That might be true, and it might not. I don't

363
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Speaker 4: know for sure, but I wouldn't want you to send

364
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Speaker 4: a letter that outlines everything. If he and his wife

365
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Speaker 4: are people that open each other's male and his wife

366
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Speaker 4: opens it, and that's how she finds out, and that's

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Speaker 4: that's then a big problem. If you decided on a

368
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Speaker 4: letter to his address, then it would have to be

369
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Speaker 4: something much more general to begin with, until you could

370
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Speaker 4: get some way of being able to communicate with him

371
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Speaker 4: that you were one hundred percent sure is private him

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Speaker 4: and him only.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, most definitely. I mean, I'm curious about so many things.

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Speaker 6: I mean about who he is and his life and

375
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Speaker 6: how he knew Diane, and you know, if he really

376
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Speaker 6: thought about me, you know, all that stuff. But it's

377
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Speaker 6: just been a really long time that I've had those questions,

378
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Speaker 6: and now I have the chance to ask them, and

379
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Speaker 6: I'm I'm scared.

380
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Speaker 2: After Michelle revealed Becky's father's identity to her, including his

381
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: immediate family location, and other details including biological information in

382
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 2: some online and public information about him, she did, in

383
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Speaker 2: fact reach out. He has declined to participate in the podcast,

384
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 2: so this information is being left out in order to

385
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 2: preserve his public autonomy. Becky reached out carefully through a letter,

386
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Speaker 2: explaining very generally what her purpose was and locating him,

387
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Speaker 2: and gave her number. He contacted her through what appeared

388
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Speaker 2: to be a burner phone, and after confirming her identity

389
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Speaker 2: and purpose, he declined to speak at length with her

390
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Speaker 2: or answer any of her questions, with the lingering promise

391
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Speaker 2: that he would reach out to her after the holidays.

392
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Speaker 2: Becky took some time to absorb this information, to reconcile

393
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Speaker 2: her thoughts and feelings, and what we leave you with

394
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Speaker 2: now is an end to Becky's journey.

395
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Speaker 6: In her own words, he's known that I've been who

396
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 6: I am for at least ten years. I've been in

397
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,479
Speaker 6: the media, and he's chosen to stay out of my

398
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 6: life and continues to choose. So I respect it. That's

399
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 6: all I can do. I don't know, but he made

400
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 6: it extremely clear that he is not interested. I mean,

401
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 6: he used a burner phone to contact me, and the

402
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 6: only reason I think that he even contacted me was

403
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 6: because he knows I was looking for him, and I'm

404
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 6: assuming he knows that I wouldn't stop until I found him.

405
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 6: But more so, I think that he contacted me to

406
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 6: guarantee that I would not put his information out there.

407
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 6: And as soon as I promised him I wouldn't, he

408
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 6: didn't want anything to do with me. So that sucks.

409
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 6: I mean, that's hard. I don't understand it. You know,

410
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 6: my son out there, when he looks for me, I'm

411
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 6: going to be so excited and so ready for him

412
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 6: to be a part of my life and answer any

413
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 6: questions that he may have and just embrace him into

414
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 6: my life fully. My biological father, I think is scared.

415
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 6: He and it's understandable. I mean, he slept with an

416
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 6: infamous killer and it produced a child that's now gone

417
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 6: into the media and been pretty out there. So if

418
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 6: I were him, I guess I'd be embarrassed. Maybe I

419
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 6: don't know, or it would just be a secret that

420
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 6: I would want to keep, and I think that that's

421
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 6: what it is for him, as a secret he wants

422
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 6: to keep, which means that that secret is me and

423
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 6: I have to remain at a distance. I guess he

424
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 6: had said that maybe around Christmas he would contact me,

425
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 6: but honestly, I am not holding my breath. I think

426
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Speaker 6: that what I did get from him was probably all

427
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 6: that I'm going to get from him, and it was

428
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 6: just a bunch of promises to answer questions in the

429
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 6: future and then telling me to never contact him again.

430
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 6: So I got no real answers. I sought out to

431
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 6: find him I did. It was disappointing, but it just

432
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 6: reconfirms how amazing my parents are and how grateful I

433
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 6: am that I have such loving parents. My dad would

434
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,919
Speaker 6: you know, my dad would do anything to see me

435
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 6: happy and to see me smile and to know that

436
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 6: I'm loved and that's important. Not a biological father and

437
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 6: not hanging on his every you know promise, But my

438
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 6: real father, my adopted father, is my real father, because

439
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 6: he is the one who has been there for every

440
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 6: scrape me, every broken heart, every challenge my life and

441
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 6: to celebrate all of the good as well. He has

442
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 6: always been there and he is a very very good man,

443
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 6: and I am grateful to have him as just the

444
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,639
Speaker 6: same as my mom. I mean, she's amazing and she

445
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 6: was always there for me and she still is. And

446
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 6: I have amazing parents and if nothing else from this journey,

447
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 6: it has confirmed that they are all that I need.

448
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 6: I don't need Diane Downs in my life. I don't

449
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 6: need this new biological father in my life. I need

450
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 6: my real parents, my adopted parents, the ones that love me,

451
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 6: the ones that chose me, the ones that would do

452
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 6: anything to see me safe and happy and left. What

453
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 6: were my thoughts on the journey? Good and bad? It

454
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 6: has been And it's been a wild ride for sure.

455
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 6: I mean, there's been a lot of interesting facts that

456
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 6: have come to light and a lot of disappointing ones.

457
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 6: I mean, it's hard to be denied by people you

458
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 6: share blood with. Even if I don't want them to

459
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 6: be my family, you know, it's still hurts my heart

460
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 6: a little bit that they deny me, which is so weird.

461
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 6: I understand. It's like I don't want to know them,

462
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 6: but I want them to know me in a sense

463
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 6: I don't know. I don't want to know them, but

464
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 6: I want them to want to know me, if that

465
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 6: makes any sense. It's just weird. I don't even understand myself.

466
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 6: But you know, I denied by Diane, denied by her brother,

467
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 6: now denied by my biological father. It's it has made

468
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 6: me extremely grateful for this life that I have. I

469
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 6: have an amazing fiance, I have parents that I would

470
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 6: never ever ever want to change. I've got a son

471
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 6: who makes me so proud and so happy, and you know,

472
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 6: I have a sister, and I just my life is

473
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 6: full of love. I will continue my journey as strong

474
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 6: as I ever have been. I'm grateful that I found

475
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 6: my biological father and that I got some of the

476
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 6: answers that I've been searching for. But it doesn't change

477
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 6: who I am. It doesn't change my presence on this earth.

478
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 6: I'm here to be a good mother, a girl friend,

479
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 6: a good wife, a good daughter. None of that is

480
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 6: affected by who I came from. Diane Downs does not

481
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 6: control who I am or who I continue to be.

482
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 6: She was just somewhere that housed me for nine months.

483
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 6: You know. It's that's all she was. She's not a mother.

484
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 6: She's not someone that I care for or that I

485
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 6: wish to have a part of my life. She was

486
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 6: my incubator, and I mean in a sense I'm grateful

487
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 6: for that, because if she hadn't gotten pregnant or continued

488
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 6: her pregnancy, I wouldn't be here. So for that, I guess,

489
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 6: thank you, Diane Downs. But other than that, that's all

490
00:30:55,120 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 6: she's ever been for me. Never my mother. I have

491
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 6: never once referred to dian Down's as my mother. She

492
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 6: is my biological mother. She may be my blood, but

493
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 6: she would never be my mother. I've met some great

494
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 6: people on this journey. The iHeartRadio staff and Melissa More

495
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 6: have just been godsends. They've been amazing. Some of the

496
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 6: people that we've met and interviewed have been wonderful. It's

497
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 6: been so great to meet kind, caring, honest people that

498
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 6: are truly concerned about me. And in my journey due

499
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 6: to where I came from, and they want to help

500
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 6: and they wanted to, you know, answer any questions that

501
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 6: they could, because they truly care and they are decent

502
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 6: human beings, and for that I am grateful. We got

503
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 6: a lot of answers, we found out some information. We

504
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 6: are continuing to find out information as we go. Therefore,

505
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 6: we are working on some projects in the FIEL. So

506
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 6: for the listeners that want to know more, there quite

507
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 6: possibly could be more in the future that you're gonna

508
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 6: want to hear and you're gonna want to know. But

509
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 6: for now, I'm content, I'm happy, I'm healthy, I'm loved.

510
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 6: I'm grateful for this journey. It didn't go as I

511
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 6: had hoped or planned, but it gave me the closure

512
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 6: that I needed that I've been searching for since I

513
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 6: was eleven years old. I can close that chapter of

514
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 6: my life and not have to look back on it

515
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 6: anymore or wonder or have questions. I can just live

516
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 6: this amazing life that I have and appreciate everyone and

517
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 6: everything in it.

518
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: Ben Bolan is our executive producer. Melissa Moore is our

519
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: co executive producer. Maya Cole is our primary producer. Paul

520
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: Dekkant is our supervising producer, Sam Tgarnan is our researcher,

521
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: and Matt Riddle is our story editor. Featured music by

522
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 2: dream Tent Happy Phase Presents. To Phase is a production

523
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio