Speaker 1: Check it down, man, now down. Then it's the beating
Speaker 1: of the book podcast Kill Alexander. Hope you're doing well.
Speaker 1: I hope you're staying safe, having fun as much as
Speaker 1: you can during this strange time in our lives. Thanks
Speaker 1: for tuning in again today. I hope you liked our
Speaker 1: last podcast, the Tennis Betting Masterclass with Dan Weston. Today,
Speaker 1: I continue what has really been a treat during this
Speaker 1: surreal time, a series of profiles of not just professional betters,
Speaker 1: but all kinds of people who inhabit this industry of ours,
Speaker 1: from Alan Boston to Rufus Peabody, Alan Dakinson, Captain Jack Andrews,
Speaker 1: Dr Bob Ray Marino from Bookmaker. I think I got
Speaker 1: everybody and there maybe I left somebody out, but I
Speaker 1: just appreciate it. So grateful for the time that everybody
Speaker 1: has so generously given and the insights that have been
Speaker 1: provided today on the show. Oh Spanky, who definitely inhabits
Speaker 1: a unique place in the sports betting ecosystem. Spanky was
Speaker 1: kind enough to sit down for over an hour when
Speaker 1: you include commercials, won't be quite that long here, but
Speaker 1: over an hour with me to talk about his experience,
Speaker 1: what shaped him as a better and just how unique
Speaker 1: his entire approaches. I think you'll find an insightful lots
Speaker 1: of reaction to this one. At first aired on the
Speaker 1: Numbers Game at Visa. If you haven't had a chance,
Speaker 1: enjoy it right here, right now on the Beating the
Speaker 1: Book podcast, Spanky, It's a numbers game with your host,
Speaker 1: Jil Alexander untold juniors to believe in Adam Lives. It
Speaker 1: is the Numbers Game right here at Visa, the Vegas
Speaker 1: Dads and Information Network. Good morning to you Serious x
Speaker 1: M Channel two O four, Visa dot Com, the Visa Apps,
Speaker 1: Fobo slaying at Game Plus. Right here at the Sports
Speaker 1: Fitting Network, it is Gil Alexander, Live in the Bay,
Speaker 1: Live at San Francisco. Hope you stay It's safe. I
Speaker 1: hope you're staying well for the balance of the show today.
Speaker 1: It's a continuation of what I've tried to do during
Speaker 1: this pandemic, because, honestly, if not now when getting to
Speaker 1: profile um some of the people that interest me in
Speaker 1: this business, some legends, some modern day guys who have
Speaker 1: a place in the sports betting ecosystem. Rufus Peabody, Captain
Speaker 1: Jack Andrews, Allen Boston Bob Stole. Last week Ray Marino
Speaker 1: from Bookmaker was on. So this has been an absolute
Speaker 1: pleasure to do this, trying to make lemonade out of
Speaker 1: lemons here during the strange time in our lives. Today
Speaker 1: that series continues, and I talked about the sports betting ecosystem.
Speaker 1: He definitely has a unique spot in the sports betting
Speaker 1: ecosystem for reasons that will become a parent as we
Speaker 1: have our discussion today, Uh, not without controversy. We'll get
Speaker 1: into some of that as well. Uh. And he goes
Speaker 1: by the name of Spanky. Spanky from somewhere in New Jersey. There, Spanky,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing this, Thanks for being
Speaker 1: on the show. Great to see you man there you are,
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me to go there. I am. How
Speaker 1: you doing, brother, I'm doing very well. Man. Let's start
Speaker 1: as I do with uh with everybody. Well, first of all,
Speaker 1: I just called you Spanky. Obviously that's not the name
Speaker 1: of your birth certificate. How did you get that name? Spanky?
Speaker 1: You know, so growing up, my mother was a big
Speaker 1: fan of Little rascals, and um, I was kind of
Speaker 1: always getting into trouble. So she just decided, you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of called me spanking, and then that was
Speaker 1: my password, um, when I was betting all these years offshore.
Speaker 1: So when ever i'd call in the sports book, you know,
Speaker 1: my six to three spanky, one one six spanky. So
Speaker 1: then they, you know, guys would just say, hey, what
Speaker 1: do you need spanking? And then it just stuck where
Speaker 1: people just started, uh just called me by my password,
Speaker 1: and um, you know it's stuck since. Yeah, I I
Speaker 1: thought it would have some little rascals origin originally. So
Speaker 1: let's start. Let's start as we do with everybody here. Uh,
Speaker 1: your first First of all, where'd you grow up, your
Speaker 1: first experiences, uh with betting, How that inspired you, how
Speaker 1: that shaped you? Let's start at the beginning. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you know I went, I grew up in Jersey City,
Speaker 1: New Jersey. Um, and uh, you know I always liked
Speaker 1: sports growing up. I was always a big fan. Um
Speaker 1: when it comes to betting. I would you know, play
Speaker 1: paul A cards, um and you know the football tickets
Speaker 1: and um, I would run Parley cards for a bookmaker
Speaker 1: out of Hoboken for a little bit. So um. And
Speaker 1: you know, you know you start learning kind of early
Speaker 1: on that it's it's so much better to be the
Speaker 1: house and that kind of business. Um, so you know,
Speaker 1: I realized that, you know a very few people went
Speaker 1: on these parlor a cards, you know. The bookmaker then
Speaker 1: and Hoboken would say, let's not give you a cut.
Speaker 1: You just helped me distribute these cards. So I was
Speaker 1: helping with that for a little bit through high school
Speaker 1: and a little bit into college. Um. You know, I
Speaker 1: went to Ruget University, and um, I received the bachelors
Speaker 1: in finance and computer science. So um, you know, during
Speaker 1: my time in college, I was again, I was fascinated
Speaker 1: by gambling in general. I always wanted to kind of
Speaker 1: like beat the game. So I'd read a lot of
Speaker 1: blackjack books, a lot of poker books, and but you know,
Speaker 1: sports betting was always like my first love and it's
Speaker 1: something that I just you know, up until then, I
Speaker 1: couldn't beat. So I was always wondering how could I
Speaker 1: beat it? And I was taking this class in college.
Speaker 1: It was called Internet Technologies, where um, you uh, you know,
Speaker 1: you were able to One of the projects in the
Speaker 1: class was You're able to go to a website and
Speaker 1: you're able to parse data and part the hteam on
Speaker 1: source code from that data. So I was able to
Speaker 1: do that. I learned these things, I you know, using
Speaker 1: Java on Perl and UM. I used these technologies and
Speaker 1: I said, hey, wait a minute, maybe I could apply
Speaker 1: this to the sports books and I could maybe part
Speaker 1: their lines and UM and start looking for discrepancies. Around
Speaker 1: that time, there was a book that came out in
Speaker 1: the h by It's called A Complete Book of Sports
Speaker 1: Betting by Jack Moore, and it was a different take
Speaker 1: on sports betting, on how to beat sports betting. Instead
Speaker 1: of you know which every other book will talk about
Speaker 1: handicapping or making numbers and power ratings and everything, this
Speaker 1: book introduced a method called the blindfold method, which essentially
Speaker 1: was a way to be able to look for different
Speaker 1: line discrepancies, different discrepancies and numbers and um, and to
Speaker 1: be able to kind of bet the outlier UM and uh.
Speaker 1: So I was able to say, okay, maybe I can
Speaker 1: program that because this book was still one lines out there.
Speaker 1: So you know, Jack Moore and his book will talk
Speaker 1: about corn a nine line service, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: crazy stuff like this, but the print, the underlying principle
Speaker 1: want to be able to look for discrepancies. So I said, maybe, um,
Speaker 1: I can write some code of the stuff that I
Speaker 1: just learned in my class. I think it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's always great to be able to apply directly what
Speaker 1: you learn in school um to uh to you know,
Speaker 1: everyday life. And I started doing that and I saw
Speaker 1: how how off some of these bookmakers were, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, through my junior senior year of college. Then
Speaker 1: I started, you know, just betting a little bit, you know,
Speaker 1: betting betting, and I started saying, Wow, this thing could
Speaker 1: actually work. But I wasn't, um, you know, ready to
Speaker 1: go full force and say that's it. This is gonna
Speaker 1: be my career. Um. So that was all through college.
Speaker 1: You I'm going to get into maybe after I graduated
Speaker 1: and where I started. Yeah, when you when you got
Speaker 1: your job out of college, where was it? And then
Speaker 1: how did your what you just described in your head
Speaker 1: about sports betting excuse me, sort of overtake what you
Speaker 1: were doing in your day job. Yeah. So, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I uh, in my day job, I I worked at
Speaker 1: Deutsche Bank, um, right on Wall Street and and and
Speaker 1: it was great, you know what I mean. I was.
Speaker 1: I was again, I had that unique computer science and
Speaker 1: finance degree, so to be able to work in the
Speaker 1: financial world as an I T guy. I kind of
Speaker 1: understood things, and I I knew exactly what I was coding.
Speaker 1: So this was you know, it was it was. It
Speaker 1: was a great position and I learned a lot. And
Speaker 1: and from that though, I was always still betting sports
Speaker 1: on the side using this program. I kept fine tuning
Speaker 1: this program I wrote through the last end of college
Speaker 1: and then after graduation, and then it got to the
Speaker 1: point where in in in two thousand three, which is
Speaker 1: three I graduated two thousand where I said to myself,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what, I'm making more money on
Speaker 1: this side than I was at my regular job. So
Speaker 1: you know, I was just married at the time and
Speaker 1: just recently married, and I told my wife, I think
Speaker 1: it's it's time to make the plunge here, um and
Speaker 1: and become a professional sports bettor. And you know, I
Speaker 1: got a lot of a lot of definitely, you know,
Speaker 1: push back. You know, my family, my mother and all
Speaker 1: my a lot of like, you know, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: we went to college. How are you gonna bet sports
Speaker 1: for a living? This is this is a pipe dream,
Speaker 1: This doesn't exist. Um. And then you know, nobody understood
Speaker 1: though that I wasn't just gonna say I'm gonna bet
Speaker 1: sports for living without testing it for several years prior.
Speaker 1: So UM that that helped me get my start and
Speaker 1: help I had the basis, had the foundation, and I
Speaker 1: knew I was going to be successful. I just had
Speaker 1: to put the work, the time in and um and
Speaker 1: use a lot of the methods of what I learned
Speaker 1: in the blindfold method to just look for discrepancies. Talking
Speaker 1: to spank you by the way, right here in a
Speaker 1: numbers game at vast in the sports betting networks, Gil Alexander,
Speaker 1: So part, let me ask you this. Obviously one doesn't
Speaker 1: well maybe it's not obvious. One I would assume doesn't
Speaker 1: have the initial thought, oh, I'm gonna make these systems
Speaker 1: and beat sports betting that way. I assume for some
Speaker 1: period of your life you tried, you tried betting sports
Speaker 1: the old fashioned way, just with your opinion. UM, how
Speaker 1: did that go? Initially? Just so you know, just like
Speaker 1: most it went pretty bad. I you know, I in
Speaker 1: my opinion is I didn't have a good opinion. You know,
Speaker 1: I used to be a big sports fan. UM. I
Speaker 1: used to like sports. I used to watch sports. I
Speaker 1: enjoyed sports. UM. And you know, just like everybody else.
Speaker 1: I thought I could just watch a game and then
Speaker 1: you know, to be able to just look at the game,
Speaker 1: see what happened in the game, and then you know
Speaker 1: the next week's games or the next day's games, know
Speaker 1: what to predict what's gonna happen uh the next day.
Speaker 1: And um, you know, you learned fast that that's not
Speaker 1: a winning formula. So um. And I was always you know,
Speaker 1: being a computer scientist, it was always important for me
Speaker 1: to try to create some type of a black box approach, um,
Speaker 1: to be able to just take opinions out of everything
Speaker 1: and to be able to just feed in the data
Speaker 1: and for it to be able to crank out. Hey, listen,
Speaker 1: this is the best thing now. You know, in the
Speaker 1: beginning when I was doing is, I was middling, and
Speaker 1: I was scalping games, and this was an important thing
Speaker 1: to be a help build my bank roll and to
Speaker 1: minimize my risk. So I would look for discrepan season
Speaker 1: and you know, I would lay five and take seven
Speaker 1: on the same game and and you know, hope the
Speaker 1: game landed five or seven for a pushing a win,
Speaker 1: or land six for a double win. So I was
Speaker 1: doing that a lot, and I was slowly building my
Speaker 1: bank roll. And you know, in order to do that,
Speaker 1: of course, you know, I had to I had to
Speaker 1: know what every half a point was worth. That was big.
Speaker 1: So there was a website. I actually checked it out,
Speaker 1: um a few months ago. It was called the Logical
Speaker 1: Approach dot com. And I keep in mind this was
Speaker 1: um and uh, you know, the Internet was still relatively
Speaker 1: you know, in its infancy stages, so there wasn't really
Speaker 1: much places to buy data. So this guy by name
Speaker 1: of andyus koe or and I don't know how to
Speaker 1: say his last name, Andy Isco ran this website and Disco, yeah,
Speaker 1: and Disco ran the Logical Approach dot com. And if
Speaker 1: you go to that website, it looks the exact same
Speaker 1: as it looked back in two thousands. Um, it hasn't changed.
Speaker 1: And he was one of the few, if and if
Speaker 1: not the only, that was actually selling data pass past data,
Speaker 1: online history and you know closing line and and and
Speaker 1: you know, home away stuff and all this. So I
Speaker 1: was able to use that data to try and to
Speaker 1: find out, you know, what half points worth. I remember
Speaker 1: the college data went back to maybe nine eighty nine
Speaker 1: or nine. I remember the NFL data went back to two. Um.
Speaker 1: I distinctly remember that because you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: the data I had to clean up. You know, a
Speaker 1: lot of the NFL data pre pre two point conversion
Speaker 1: wasn't really applicable, applicable you know, for the new game.
Speaker 1: The game had changed, and a lot of different numbers
Speaker 1: were worth a lot of different values. You know, four
Speaker 1: on because of the two point conversion. You know, obviously
Speaker 1: the one would lose value because you know, if a
Speaker 1: team is down to they're obviously gonna go for two,
Speaker 1: so they're not gonna kick the extra point, so the
Speaker 1: one would land a lot less. But then of course
Speaker 1: you know, if the two would be worth more, the
Speaker 1: five would be worth more, and of course the three
Speaker 1: would be worth more because if they convert the two
Speaker 1: point conversion, that's a higher chance of overtime, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker 1: So these are things that you know, you kind of
Speaker 1: I was able to try to uh extract that and
Speaker 1: know what every half point it was worth, and know
Speaker 1: what a profitable middle was. And that was the biggest
Speaker 1: thing for me to be able to take that approach,
Speaker 1: and and and and and and and take it from
Speaker 1: essentially a top down approach um where I'm just looking
Speaker 1: for nd the discrepancies instead of a bottom up approach
Speaker 1: where I'm actually trying to create power ratings and create
Speaker 1: lines myself. So just to sort of just to sort
Speaker 1: of summarize what you're saying for because there's a lot
Speaker 1: of people who are going to be listening here and
Speaker 1: are not the most sophisticated bears might not catch onto
Speaker 1: what you're saying. So instead of being, you know, a
Speaker 1: guy who originates at a guy who handicaps games, you
Speaker 1: applied concepts that you were first fascinated by, first of
Speaker 1: all growing up and then obviously in school, but the
Speaker 1: ones that you really honed in Wall Street and essentially
Speaker 1: applied those principle, those trading principles to sports betting. And
Speaker 1: there's a story that's that's pretty famous. You at Deutsche Bank,
Speaker 1: you were middling, you were losing juice, as as as
Speaker 1: middling goes uh and um then one day, of course
Speaker 1: you hit them, and then you hit another, and you
Speaker 1: hit another and then you realize, well, I'm onto something
Speaker 1: here obviously, um so. And and by the way, what
Speaker 1: you were just describing to actually hone your craft to
Speaker 1: figure out the value of what every point uh means
Speaker 1: I think just on its surface, universally, people will listen
Speaker 1: to that and they'll be like, oh, that's I mean,
Speaker 1: that's awesome. How can you how can you not appreciate that.
Speaker 1: On the other hands, Banky as you know, uh, that's
Speaker 1: not without controversy, right, So as you have grown your
Speaker 1: operation because your operation is vastly larger now than it
Speaker 1: was then, Uh, you hold this very unique place in
Speaker 1: the betting ecosystem. And obviously bookmakers they don't like uh,
Speaker 1: you know what they call uh, what's the term they
Speaker 1: use for it again, scraping? What is the term they
Speaker 1: use is different from what we would call it on
Speaker 1: our side, But it's the The issue is also not
Speaker 1: only behind the book because you're you're chasing numbers from
Speaker 1: their perspective, but originators, people who actually do handicap their stuff. Um,
Speaker 1: they are not fans of yours because it's not as
Speaker 1: benign as you you know, just how having this network
Speaker 1: and box associated with it where you can you know,
Speaker 1: spread it out and middle at will uh scalping. By
Speaker 1: the way, what percentage of your business would you say
Speaker 1: is scalping? What percentage of your business would you say
Speaker 1: is actually taking a position based on other opinions. Well
Speaker 1: we we Initially it was all middling and scalping. Now
Speaker 1: we're taking positions. Um, but I'm still if I'm heavy
Speaker 1: on a position and um, and if I want to
Speaker 1: be able to limit my exposure, I'm definitely gonna be
Speaker 1: able to buy back. I have you know, designated cold
Speaker 1: accounts that are able to help me buy back to
Speaker 1: help mitigate my risk. Um okay, yeah yeah. What would
Speaker 1: you what would you say? What would you say about
Speaker 1: the criticism levied by originators who are like, all right, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's great and all spanky, but you're essentially taking all
Speaker 1: of our work and capitalizing on it to such an
Speaker 1: extent now with your network that it almost becomes this massive,
Speaker 1: uh massive greed money grab and we're actually the ones
Speaker 1: doing all the real work. What would you say? Not listen,
Speaker 1: you know that there's a negative connotation originator non originator. Um.
Speaker 1: You know I originate millions of dollars annually, so that
Speaker 1: you know this whole originator thing, it means nothing to me. Um.
Speaker 1: The minute somebody places a bet into a market and
Speaker 1: that market reacts to that, and a bookmaker moves the
Speaker 1: line that's public information. So I'm just utilizing I know,
Speaker 1: I um, I've I've found a way and we could
Speaker 1: discuss this um more in detail, but I found a
Speaker 1: way to understand you know early on that UM. You know,
Speaker 1: you want to work smarter, not harder, UM. And and
Speaker 1: the way to work smarter is to be able to
Speaker 1: look for discrepities and find out what's missing UM versus
Speaker 1: just UM. You know, try to create something from scratch. UM.
Speaker 1: And again there's a lot of different technologies, a lot
Speaker 1: of different tools that were built. And you know, the
Speaker 1: hard the hard work that we've done UM on our
Speaker 1: end um is incredible. Uh. You know, you know again
Speaker 1: I might I've been using Bob betting for soham long
Speaker 1: and it's one of those things in which you just
Speaker 1: it's it's it's our operations, like you said, has skilled incredible.
Speaker 1: We'll we'll flesh that out a little more when we
Speaker 1: come back. Also want to get in a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of other stuff with Spanky. How he balances, uh keeps
Speaker 1: accounts with what he does. I mean, that's an entire
Speaker 1: art form in and of itself. Spanky right here exclusively
Speaker 1: especial edition of a numbers game right here at the
Speaker 1: Sports Betting Network. Welcome back to a numbers game with
Speaker 1: Jill Alexander. A numbers game at Vison brought you by
Speaker 1: man Escaped dot Com. Man Escape dot Com as the
Speaker 1: tools for your family jewels. You can get off plus
Speaker 1: free shipping with the code V sent at man escape
Speaker 1: dot com. That's off at man escaped dot Com with
Speaker 1: promo code v S. I n saw the UH Shark
Speaker 1: Tank rerun last night where both Mark Cuban and Lorie
Speaker 1: Grenier actually buy in to invest in man Escaped, so
Speaker 1: that was interesting to see yesterday. It is Gial Alexander
Speaker 1: live in San Francisco. Spanky kind enough to join us
Speaker 1: for most of the show here today Chris Andrews and
Speaker 1: Paul Carr coming up later. I want to give you
Speaker 1: a chance here, Snakey, to flesh out what we're talking
Speaker 1: about before the break um for those who missed it,
Speaker 1: again talking about Spanky's network and the notion of originators
Speaker 1: UH taking issue with it, and you know, I would
Speaker 1: sort of add on to that and you can address
Speaker 1: it all at once. I guess do you ever, do
Speaker 1: you ever have moments where you have any doubt about
Speaker 1: what it is that's doing any scruples about it, I guess,
Speaker 1: and the other thing, you know, and this is sort
Speaker 1: of a random thought, and I hope you I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to be flippant with this, but I always think
Speaker 1: about if we were back years however, far back in time,
Speaker 1: and you did this, then, like if there was an
Speaker 1: old if those were old school wise guys, right or
Speaker 1: mob guys, like, how that would fly in a different era? Also, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, so just kind of explain a little bit more.
Speaker 1: You know, there's two ways to make money in this business.
Speaker 1: There's a top down approach and the bottom up approach. Um.
Speaker 1: A bottom up approach essentially is gonna try to determine
Speaker 1: what to bet. You know, what teams to bet on.
Speaker 1: You create a handicap, you create power ratings, you crank
Speaker 1: out a number and and and then you know you're
Speaker 1: able to execute right the top down. Not only you know,
Speaker 1: not only do you have to know what to bet
Speaker 1: in in sports betting, you have to win tibet and
Speaker 1: how to bet. And this is where you know, where
Speaker 1: where we believe we're we become experts on so what
Speaker 1: tibet becomes. You know, we're able to analyze this information
Speaker 1: and and we kind of are able to analyze line
Speaker 1: moves and then we know how to bet and when
Speaker 1: the bet. How to bet meaning um, you know, to
Speaker 1: be able to get down a significant amount of money
Speaker 1: in a short period of time, um, using automated betting
Speaker 1: tools and whatnot, and when tibet, knowing how to time
Speaker 1: the market, knowing exactly when I could come in at
Speaker 1: the peak if I'm gonna let's just say, you know,
Speaker 1: take a dog and a line is seven, but I
Speaker 1: feel as if I could get a seven and a
Speaker 1: half knowing when to wait, to be able to see
Speaker 1: when that line will will will will peak. And that's
Speaker 1: just an art. That's just something you learn. Um. With
Speaker 1: respect to uh, to anybody having taking issue with what
Speaker 1: I do, again, all the stuff I use is public information. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, we're always trying to find the information and
Speaker 1: some of it's not so public just to be honest,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like they're there. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a lot of hard work. When I was coming
Speaker 1: up in a business, you know, we would call different
Speaker 1: schools and and and and and you know, try to
Speaker 1: talk to school newspapers or try to call athletic departments
Speaker 1: and try to find out. You know, there was times
Speaker 1: which we've even you know, piped into the coaches themselves.
Speaker 1: You know how it's practiced today, UM again trying to
Speaker 1: beat the market, trying to find out things that the
Speaker 1: market doesn't know. And and this is where where our
Speaker 1: specialty is injury information, things that that are that are
Speaker 1: not reflected in the current line. It's so much better
Speaker 1: and so much easier, in my opinion, to be able
Speaker 1: to know, you know, to be able to find out
Speaker 1: what's missing, UM, then to create something from scratch, UM,
Speaker 1: finding out what's the missing piece of the puzzle. UM.
Speaker 1: Any bookmaker that ever has any any issue, UM would say, hey,
Speaker 1: spank you know you don't want originate numbers, you know.
Speaker 1: So these are not bookmakers. These are dressmakers. You know,
Speaker 1: because now we're getting into the why of somebody's betting. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, a bookmaker, you hang a number to take
Speaker 1: a hit. The numbers there, it's open for everybody. Why
Speaker 1: I'm betting, you know, the New York Giants plus seven?
Speaker 1: You know that's just because you know, I believe it
Speaker 1: could be because I believe the line is going down
Speaker 1: to five, or it could be because you know, I
Speaker 1: like the letters N y g or maybe seven is
Speaker 1: my lucky number. You know what I mean? It has
Speaker 1: nothing that there is no such thing as why in
Speaker 1: this business everything is boom. I'm just gonna bet, you
Speaker 1: book the bet and let's it. You move on. So
Speaker 1: anybody that takes issue to originate or non originator, these
Speaker 1: are not bookmakers. This is again I learned again with
Speaker 1: with with that Jack Moore book that you're trying to
Speaker 1: be able to get down at the best priced and
Speaker 1: they're trying to beat the closing line, and you're trying
Speaker 1: to get down as much as possible. Handicappers, most of
Speaker 1: these handicappers, just to be a good handicapper means nothing
Speaker 1: if you can't get down, um, because all these bottom
Speaker 1: up guys they could, you could create great numbers. But
Speaker 1: what good is it if you can't bet, if you
Speaker 1: don't know when a time your bet, if you don't
Speaker 1: know how to get down significantly where for me, I'm
Speaker 1: able to be able to extract the information. But I
Speaker 1: know how to bet and win to bet, and I
Speaker 1: know how to time the market to be able to
Speaker 1: get the best of the number and to be able
Speaker 1: to to maximize my urn. Yeah, and and I mean
Speaker 1: there's so many much of that that I want to
Speaker 1: follow up on, you know, because they again, for the
Speaker 1: common person sitting here, you are one of a kind.
Speaker 1: I don't believe that anyone can really duplicate your operation,
Speaker 1: and in many respects that might make you, in again
Speaker 1: a controversial way, maybe more powerful than anybody. Will droll
Speaker 1: down into that, and again we'll get into the whole
Speaker 1: notion of the art of what you do. Balancing accounts, um,
Speaker 1: not getting banned, um. All fascinating stuff from Spanky right
Speaker 1: here in the numbers game at base in these Sports
Speaker 1: Betting Network, Welcome back to a numbers game with Jil Alexander.
Speaker 1: It is Gael Alexander right here on a numbers game
Speaker 1: at decent Spanky my guest today on the show. And
Speaker 1: let me just stay in advance making in case you
Speaker 1: were sort of getting this in your head, Like I
Speaker 1: absolutely I am convinced that if there were no you,
Speaker 1: someone else would fill this role in the ecosystem, right Like,
Speaker 1: so I completely get that it just happens to be you,
Speaker 1: and that's why we're talking to you, because you're the
Speaker 1: guy who devoted your your life to this. But I
Speaker 1: totally get that this that this role would exist in
Speaker 1: the ecosystem. People can debate how much they like or
Speaker 1: don't like that rule. But what about my two questions
Speaker 1: before the commercial? One could anyone like if anyone today
Speaker 1: started out and they're like, you know what, I love
Speaker 1: this spanky dude. I love exactly what he does. I'm
Speaker 1: going to set out to to do exactly what he does.
Speaker 1: First of all, whether your advice would be to tell
Speaker 1: them to even bother trying or out as another story?
Speaker 1: First of all, could they duplicated? Do you think? And secondly,
Speaker 1: and I said this before the break and and no
Speaker 1: hyperbole here when I asked this, but could you make
Speaker 1: the case that because you operate in the manner you
Speaker 1: do and have the network that you do, that you
Speaker 1: wield more power in sports betting, at least this side
Speaker 1: of the world, uh, in sports betting markets than anyone else.
Speaker 1: You know, Uh, you know that. I don't even know
Speaker 1: what when you say power, it's just what happens. Is
Speaker 1: I just you know, I look at things more from
Speaker 1: a technology standpoint, and I've always looked at it that way.
Speaker 1: Taking this top down approach um will be able to
Speaker 1: stand the test of time. And I kind of had
Speaker 1: that foresight early on, because a lot of these you know,
Speaker 1: quote unquote originators, handicappers, a lot of them fall by
Speaker 1: the wayside. You know, even many that have come on
Speaker 1: your show, UM, you know, have gone broke, have gone
Speaker 1: busto tapioca, um, where they're no longer relevant. They need
Speaker 1: free roles to be able to support them. UM. For me,
Speaker 1: you know, I've always stayed relevant. I've always you know,
Speaker 1: tried to be h on and tried to stay on
Speaker 1: top because my my model, my system is designed to
Speaker 1: be able to indirectly have the world's best handicappers work
Speaker 1: for me UM by analyzing line moves. You know, the
Speaker 1: best bookmakers in the world don't necessarily make the best numbers. UM. However,
Speaker 1: they have their customers, and they're able to utilize that
Speaker 1: information from their customers to be able to put themselves
Speaker 1: in a situation to hang a price, to be able
Speaker 1: to bring ourbers and scalpers and middlers, to be able
Speaker 1: to give themselves a position that is beneficial to them. UM,
Speaker 1: to be on the you know, same side as the sharps.
Speaker 1: As they say, UM, we're the same thing. You know.
Speaker 1: I put myself in a position where I'm analyzing these
Speaker 1: line moves to be on the same side as the sharps,
Speaker 1: and the market is going to determine who the sharp
Speaker 1: guys are. Um. You know, being sharp is not you know,
Speaker 1: being a sharp handicapper or being an originator. UM. A
Speaker 1: lot of very few are like Billy Walters that have
Speaker 1: stood the test of time over decades and decades. Many
Speaker 1: of these guys, you know, they're great, but then a
Speaker 1: lot of them fizzle out. UM. So so if somebody
Speaker 1: wants to do what I do, it's definitely it's it's hard. Um.
Speaker 1: But if you do get successful at it, um, it's
Speaker 1: it's a system that will last, you know, as long
Speaker 1: as you have the proper technology and the proper connections. UM.
Speaker 1: And again, I've been in Costa Rica fifteen sixteen times.
Speaker 1: I know every bookmaker that they're any relevant bookmaker, either
Speaker 1: directly or indirectly, they all know who I am. UM.
Speaker 1: And this took years and years to develop. Um. It
Speaker 1: just doesn't happen. And and you know, I don't just
Speaker 1: walk up to a door and say, hey, I'm spanky.
Speaker 1: You want to be friends, you want to talk, maybe
Speaker 1: do some business snow, you know, but the word of
Speaker 1: mouth has got around and my reputation was built organically,
Speaker 1: not using social media none of that. Um, anybody that's
Speaker 1: who's who in the business knows who I am based
Speaker 1: on my work and and and based on on what
Speaker 1: I've produced, um, you know, and bookmakers themselves will be
Speaker 1: able to tell you because I can't really comment if
Speaker 1: I'm good or not or anything like that. But I
Speaker 1: think the bookmakers themselves will be able to comment, um
Speaker 1: on on how good or are are, you know, because
Speaker 1: they see my work. They're in the weeds every day,
Speaker 1: so they know, you know, what I can produce. We've
Speaker 1: we've we've probably barked up that tree as far as
Speaker 1: we can here, spegan, let me move on to some
Speaker 1: other stuff about your operations specifically, because this I imagine
Speaker 1: on a day to day basis non pandemic times, but
Speaker 1: in a normal sports calendar, is what you deal with
Speaker 1: every day, and it must be fascinating to to observe.
Speaker 1: Uh maybe you're so close to the sun that it's
Speaker 1: not fascinating wouldn't be the word you would use, but
Speaker 1: obviously challenge. And it's about really, you know, line shopping
Speaker 1: and amounts at its core. So the earlier you bet,
Speaker 1: and again you have this network of hundreds of not
Speaker 1: thousands of outs. The earlier you bet, the better the
Speaker 1: price you're gonna get, but the less you're gonna be
Speaker 1: able to get down. Uh. The later you bet, the
Speaker 1: worst the price you're going to get, but the more
Speaker 1: you can get down. So I imagine that's an art
Speaker 1: form to begin with. And then after that, I guess
Speaker 1: it becomes the balance of not getting banned from let's
Speaker 1: say some of the more outlying outs, maybe not the
Speaker 1: big names that people would know from off shore. Um,
Speaker 1: so is that an accurate assessment? Like those are the
Speaker 1: two big struggles of your vocation? Ye hit the nail
Speaker 1: on the head, gil um you know. And again this
Speaker 1: is everything I see speak is from a professional standpoint.
Speaker 1: So a lot of the listeners, if you're recreational, um,
Speaker 1: you know, thinking about not getting banned or thinking about
Speaker 1: being able to maximize, um, the amount you get down
Speaker 1: probably doesn't apply to most. So just you know, again
Speaker 1: keep in mind this is just from a professional standpoint. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's a fine line you have to walk, like
Speaker 1: you said, to be able to maximize the best price
Speaker 1: and the amount you get down. So this is this
Speaker 1: is very important. You definitely definitely want to work on
Speaker 1: that and um and at the same time you also
Speaker 1: want to be able to UM two not only get
Speaker 1: the best price and get down, but like you said,
Speaker 1: not get banned and UM. You know a lot of guys,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of guys they bet props where
Speaker 1: they bet these exotic things. You know, I have my
Speaker 1: own prop guy that does a lot of these props,
Speaker 1: but it's hard to be able to do that and
Speaker 1: it will stick out like a sore thumb. So we
Speaker 1: mix a lot of that prop stuff in with legitimate
Speaker 1: you know, NFL work and stuff because the bookmaker loves
Speaker 1: to see NFL work. If you bet the NFL, the
Speaker 1: bookmakers relieved because the NFL, in my opinion, is close
Speaker 1: to being as unbeatable as any sport out there. So
Speaker 1: you know, when a bookmaker sees that, it kind of
Speaker 1: gives you I don't want to say cover, but it
Speaker 1: kind of gives you. You know, it is kind of
Speaker 1: a camouflage cover to be able to last longer. Um,
Speaker 1: and for them to give you, be able to give
Speaker 1: you a longer leash, to be able to get down
Speaker 1: on the stuff that you have a bigger edge on
Speaker 1: that's a very I I hope people seized on that. Again,
Speaker 1: the more casual better seized on that Spanky can last
Speaker 1: longer at certain outs if they see him having NFL action.
Speaker 1: That should be just sort of a betting one oh
Speaker 1: one thing about NFL betting, as Roxy, the Great Roxy
Speaker 1: Roxborough said to be many years ago when Chrissie he
Speaker 1: had I had at dinner at that famous Pierros. He's
Speaker 1: like Gil, nobody beats the NFL. Nobody. And what he
Speaker 1: meant was not over the course of the week, a month,
Speaker 1: or a year, but long term pre flop ats. We're
Speaker 1: talking nobody beats the NFL. So that actually is a
Speaker 1: employ is not the right word, but a method by
Speaker 1: which Spanky is able to have longer staying power at
Speaker 1: some of these outs. That's a relatable message for any
Speaker 1: level better. We'll come back. I want to ask you
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of questions. Among them, Spank, Uh, do
Speaker 1: you really not know who Andrew luck is? You wear
Speaker 1: this on your sleeve about not knowing who any of
Speaker 1: these athletes are. We'll get into that. Uh. And is
Speaker 1: that a good look. We'll talk to Spanky about that
Speaker 1: on the other side right here in the numbers game
Speaker 1: and Visa these sports betting network. Welcome back to a
Speaker 1: numbers game with Gil Alexander. Don't forget. Now is the
Speaker 1: time to become a Vicent Plus subscriber. It is free.
Speaker 1: You won't have to decide what you want to do,
Speaker 1: pay or cancel until at least one of the major
Speaker 1: sports returns. Just go to Visa dot com slash subscribe
Speaker 1: to sign up. That's Visa dot Com slash subscribe to
Speaker 1: sign up. It is a numbers game, Gil Alexander and
Speaker 1: Spanky uh in the house today on the show I
Speaker 1: mentioned this also edited to the brake. Spanky and I
Speaker 1: always found this fascinating because I used to, Uh, I
Speaker 1: know other handicappers. Who I know handicappers, I should say,
Speaker 1: who like to wear it on their sleeve that like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't watch games. I just I make my pick
Speaker 1: and then I see what happens. And I always tell
Speaker 1: those people like, I'm not wired that way, Like I'm
Speaker 1: actually watching games and stuff. You do this thing where
Speaker 1: you're like, I don't even know who Andrew luck is.
Speaker 1: I remember when you started your podcast. By the way,
Speaker 1: what's the name of your podcast? For everybody's make. The
Speaker 1: podcast is called Be Better Betters. UM. It's a podcast
Speaker 1: be Be Better Betters. It's a podcast where I, I,
Speaker 1: you know, give my take his life as a professional
Speaker 1: better and I also interview people I respecting the business,
Speaker 1: bookmakers and other professional betters. UM. It's available where podcasts
Speaker 1: are found. We're all podcasts are fat. I see you're
Speaker 1: pro doing that already. UM, and yeah, it's great stuff
Speaker 1: that you do. Great stuff on the podcast. But like
Speaker 1: I remember when you were at one point you were
Speaker 1: solstening listening to podcasts, and you're like, the criteria is
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear about any players on any team.
Speaker 1: So like you famously, I think Andrew Luck was one
Speaker 1: of the guys you brought up where you're like, I
Speaker 1: don't even know who Andrew Luck is. And I, first
Speaker 1: of all, I refused to believe that was just first
Speaker 1: of all, I get that you don't know as many
Speaker 1: players as other people. Do you just take that approach?
Speaker 1: What did you say that? Because you just want to
Speaker 1: convey that the way that you win at betting is
Speaker 1: by the methods we've described earlier on this show and
Speaker 1: not by traditional handicapping. UM. And and why I guess
Speaker 1: someone I'm asking is why do you feel the need
Speaker 1: to to stress that. Um, well it's a fact, um,
Speaker 1: so to be able to you know this is these
Speaker 1: are just facts. I wouldn't lie and if you could
Speaker 1: believe me or not, you know, Um, I I know
Speaker 1: several players names, but I don't know other players names.
Speaker 1: And again I've been out of the loop for a while. Um,
Speaker 1: you know the day to day operations. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I have a whole team of guys that run in
Speaker 1: my office now, so UM, I just I I'm out
Speaker 1: of touch. Um. And the whole Andrew Luck thing, my
Speaker 1: friend Captain Jack texted me told me Andrew Luck retired.
Speaker 1: And I don't know who that was. And that's that's
Speaker 1: the God's honest truth, whether you believe it or not.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to laugh. I just probably that ridiculous, yes,
Speaker 1: and I and I'm you know, UM, it's just one
Speaker 1: of those things, like you know, this show is called
Speaker 1: the Numbers Game. It's not a name game. So everything
Speaker 1: is based on numbers. Um. You know, I bet teams.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a teams in college basketball, I U
Speaker 1: p U I and I p f W. I don't
Speaker 1: even know what these letters stand for. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: And I've been betting, you know, probably hundreds of thousands
Speaker 1: over the years on these teams or against them over
Speaker 1: the several years. And I don't even know what these
Speaker 1: games where they are located, what these teams stand for.
Speaker 1: It's again, it's not about I just know that what
Speaker 1: a half point is worth, what the prices um with
Speaker 1: respect to players and watching games. You know, I've sat
Speaker 1: in sports books and guys would ask me, they'd give
Speaker 1: me their spiel and they're tell me, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: this is gonna happen, because it is. And again it
Speaker 1: just goes right over my head in one year at
Speaker 1: the other because I don't know, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: I can't comment. I can't have an intellectual sports conversation.
Speaker 1: This is one of the reasons why. And I've never
Speaker 1: been on any show on Visa except you know just now,
Speaker 1: you know, because I can't. I believe, I can't provide
Speaker 1: any value or I can't have an intellectual sports conversation
Speaker 1: um with anybody because I don't know sports. You know,
Speaker 1: I've gotten to the point now where you know, it's
Speaker 1: sad to say, but I kind of fell out of
Speaker 1: love with sports. Um it's uh, it's just a business
Speaker 1: for me. It's just a means to an end and
Speaker 1: and and I'm just trying to just you know, make
Speaker 1: as much money as possible and um and be successful,
Speaker 1: support my family. And that's it, you know, it's it's um,
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, you can't really have favorite teams
Speaker 1: or be fans when you're betting foreign against these teams.
Speaker 1: And with respect to watching games, you know, with respect
Speaker 1: to watching games, it's it's it's, you know, the more
Speaker 1: time if I say the games go off at seven o'clock,
Speaker 1: you know, if I'm watching a game, that's less time
Speaker 1: I'm spent watching lines. Um again. You know, honestly, you know,
Speaker 1: betting a game live or something, but we don't really
Speaker 1: do that as much. Um again, We're just watching lines,
Speaker 1: We're watching numbers and and and that's what it comes
Speaker 1: down to. That's what it's all about. You know. I
Speaker 1: could talk about you know, whether and I think it
Speaker 1: is important in the whole context of sports betting. A
Speaker 1: lot of people will spend time, a lot of media
Speaker 1: spends time on you know, why this team is going
Speaker 1: to cover the spread or why not, but not too
Speaker 1: many people spend time on you know, would you rather
Speaker 1: you know, lay seven plus ten or minus six and
Speaker 1: a half minus oh five on an NFL game? You know,
Speaker 1: so these things? Yeah, and that's no, that's exactly why
Speaker 1: I ask, right, I expected that answer, and and you're right,
Speaker 1: what while it is a numbers game, I do know
Speaker 1: names as well though, That's why I was asking. But
Speaker 1: that's the answer I respected, I expected because I know
Speaker 1: that I think that needs to be hammered home. Uh
Speaker 1: And beyond what you do, there's a there's a broader
Speaker 1: lesson in that and being a successful sports better You
Speaker 1: will maximize your chances to be successful if you think
Speaker 1: of it from a number standpoint rather than teams and players,
Speaker 1: for sure. But let me ask you that since you
Speaker 1: brought it up about you know, because because I do
Speaker 1: a show, right, we we do ten hours I do
Speaker 1: ten hours of this every week uh plus podcast on
Speaker 1: the subject of sports betting, and it is you know,
Speaker 1: you come from this very unique perspective, as we've outlined here,
Speaker 1: and so it's very what you said is very honest. Right,
Speaker 1: You've never been on a show because you don't know
Speaker 1: specifically what you could provide to the audience, and I
Speaker 1: think you know that's a subject that I've brought up
Speaker 1: before on a numbers game at Visa. It's a constant
Speaker 1: balance right between how can I do something smart while
Speaker 1: also being entertaining? Right, I could, I could do entertainment,
Speaker 1: and it might not be smart. Right. There's numerous examples
Speaker 1: of that. But in sports betting, it's this really fine
Speaker 1: line between here's authenticity and here's what's actually happening with
Speaker 1: real professional betters and actually still casting a wide enough
Speaker 1: net to get people interested. Because you know, you know
Speaker 1: as well as I do, and you just alluded to it.
Speaker 1: What you and I are talking about here today is
Speaker 1: not going to be everybody's cup of tea, right, not
Speaker 1: gonna be if my goal here today was I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get the best ratings I've ever had in my life.
Speaker 1: Is it a tough conversation for a lot of people
Speaker 1: because a lot of people can't relate at all to it. Um,
Speaker 1: But if we are truly going to be authentic, we
Speaker 1: need to have conversations like this. And so I totally
Speaker 1: respect what you're saying there. I totally get where you're like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I couldn't talk about teams. I don't
Speaker 1: know what I could really provide because most people would
Speaker 1: be like, well, I don't have spanks network, I can't
Speaker 1: do what he's doing. Um, But every so often there's
Speaker 1: a nugget in there that people can latch onto. UM.
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a question in there other
Speaker 1: than I get that. No, absolutely, And it's just like
Speaker 1: you know, just again, instead of analyzing teams just to
Speaker 1: know um an analyzing team stats, knowing what every half
Speaker 1: a point is worth, doing that math, doing that research,
Speaker 1: and knowing bookmakers tendencies. You know, I think everybody could
Speaker 1: latch onto something like that. For example, you know an
Speaker 1: off shore bookmaker Grande, you know, five minutes to post.
Speaker 1: It's just like clockwork. They always, if they're ever heavier,
Speaker 1: if they ever need action on the side, five minutes
Speaker 1: to post, are always gonna move a number five cents
Speaker 1: to be able to warn action on the side that
Speaker 1: they want action on. So you know, just by and
Speaker 1: knowing that if I see that, they might have the
Speaker 1: best number in the world. I know, listen, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: wait five minutes to post because five minutes of post,
Speaker 1: I'm I could get a better number. UM and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. These are just things in which you know
Speaker 1: and it doesn't have to do with handicapping, just timing
Speaker 1: and knowing bookmakers tendencies and knowing how they move and
Speaker 1: how they react moves and how much they move, you know,
Speaker 1: especially with auto line movers these days, when when when
Speaker 1: when bookmaker dot EU when they move a line from
Speaker 1: three flat the three minus a quarter, that's a big difference.
Speaker 1: When they moved from the three minus twenty. They respect
Speaker 1: of course the guy more that that they're moving. So
Speaker 1: these things are are so important and they're just not
Speaker 1: talked about, and like you said, Gil, they're only known
Speaker 1: by people that are on the front lines, that are
Speaker 1: in the weeds day in and day out. This is
Speaker 1: not the casual uh gamblers problem. Um, The casual gambler
Speaker 1: likes to just hear about picks and why this team
Speaker 1: is that and you know, you know this guy is
Speaker 1: on the road and he has had this rest and
Speaker 1: all this other stuff where you know all this stuff again,
Speaker 1: if you I take the principle that if you believe
Speaker 1: that everything is factored into the line, and then you
Speaker 1: try to find out what's not in the line, so
Speaker 1: you know, you assume the market is efficient, but then
Speaker 1: look for what's missing and um and even were alluding to,
Speaker 1: you know, like wise guys and old bookmakers. You know,
Speaker 1: there was a lot of these guys used to tell
Speaker 1: me stories where and I'm pretty sure you heard something
Speaker 1: like this where they would you know, they would have
Speaker 1: guys and paper airplane cleaners to be able to get
Speaker 1: you know, before the internet was around, they'd be able
Speaker 1: to get newspapers and it flights coming in from l
Speaker 1: A to New York to be able to get you know,
Speaker 1: California newspapers or Chicago newspapers and kind of know exactly
Speaker 1: what injury status were read the sports section, to be
Speaker 1: able to know, um um, you know, information that wasn't reflected.
Speaker 1: And this is the type of stuff that you know,
Speaker 1: again we used to call schools up. You're always trying
Speaker 1: to find out information that's not currently present in the number. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: I had Ray Marino. I don't know if you heard
Speaker 1: last week Ray Marino from Bookmaker was on the show.
Speaker 1: One of his betters or winners. That's what he said
Speaker 1: on this show. Another thirteen percent maybe lose juice. The
Speaker 1: other eight five percent or or thereabouts, uh, just stone
Speaker 1: cold losers. Um, but yeah, I just wanted to make
Speaker 1: that that point like, that's that's part of just not
Speaker 1: only on your side, but even on the sports betting
Speaker 1: media side. While you balance you know how much to
Speaker 1: bet at which shops, how early, how late, how to
Speaker 1: keep those part of the art here is also you know,
Speaker 1: how much in the weeds can you get before of
Speaker 1: the audience tunes out. It's this constant balance. Uh. And
Speaker 1: to the extent that I can achieve that properly, that
Speaker 1: I've done my job. But it's a difficult. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: a difficult balance to have for sure. By the way,
Speaker 1: before we go to break, do you know where we
Speaker 1: met Snaky? By the way, someone reminded me of this.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know. I didn't even know the answer
Speaker 1: to this. I thought something else. Oh, I remember us
Speaker 1: meeting at the when we do the draft Kings was
Speaker 1: running the sports Spinning Championship or no, I think I
Speaker 1: met you before then when I was in Vegas, I
Speaker 1: was betting at the South Point for a week, and
Speaker 1: I remember you were there with more. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: where we met before that? That's where I thought we met.
Speaker 1: Two Jason Weingarten reminded me that we met at Sloan
Speaker 1: years ago, and yet when we were eating in at
Speaker 1: cafe next to the actual in the hotel itself, and
Speaker 1: I do recall that anyway, This is one of these
Speaker 1: things where I'm like, oh, yeah, that was Spanky. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I didn't put two and two together either.
Speaker 1: I have more questions to ask, We got more to come.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about did you bet the
Speaker 1: NFL Draft during the pandemic? This is one of these
Speaker 1: events that I think would cater to the way that
Speaker 1: you bet. Maybe you did, Maybe it didn't, because I
Speaker 1: think there's a size of operation issue in there as well. Um,
Speaker 1: just sort of rapid fire things about William Hill and others.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get away unscathed on this show today, Uh,
Speaker 1: Spanky unique, controversial. UM. Fascinated to have him on the
Speaker 1: show today. Here on a numbers game at Visa. It's
Speaker 1: a numbers game with your host Jil Alexander, who believe
Speaker 1: in analytics. It is our number two of the numbers
Speaker 1: game right here at Visa. The sports betting Newick Gil
Speaker 1: Alexander Serious x M two oh four, Visa dot Com,
Speaker 1: the Visa app, Fubo Sling Game plus on Down the line. Appreciate. Uh,
Speaker 1: everybody tuning in. Spanky, my guest, We got it for
Speaker 1: one more segment here, maybe two, Um, and then Chrissie,
Speaker 1: Andrews and Paul Carl will join us. Uh. Sparky got
Speaker 1: some tweets here, We get tweets at beating the book. Uh,
Speaker 1: Peter Wattrey, Wow, extremely high level cover conversation about sports
Speaker 1: betting with Spanky, great questions, A real gift for US
Speaker 1: recreational bettors to sit back and learn. That's very nice, Peter,
Speaker 1: thanks to Spank on that low key o g. The
Speaker 1: Spanky interview is the best thing I've heard on VISA
Speaker 1: in a while. Nice. Um and Captain Jack, our mutual friend.
Speaker 1: Captain Jack actually tweeted, uh, he goes here you go, Guil.
Speaker 1: The text ex chase between Spanky and I where I
Speaker 1: told him Andrew Luck retired. The redacted part was a
Speaker 1: business discussion we were having at the time, But basically
Speaker 1: there's you on text going who's that and he's talking
Speaker 1: about Andrew Luck. Oh my goodness. There's one. Uh. Spanky
Speaker 1: does the work always thinking numbers, twenty four hours a day. No, Uh,
Speaker 1: that's from Robert Pereghini. Says no life though, meaning your
Speaker 1: hard worker. I guess what he means there, peaches Spanky
Speaker 1: needs to get guilt to the next event. He already
Speaker 1: has the zip up on to fit in. I guess
Speaker 1: he's talking about Jersey there. That's my conclusion to that anyway, Um,
Speaker 1: and on and on. So we appreciate all the feedback
Speaker 1: at beating the book. Um, and uh, they're all very kind,
Speaker 1: so thank you to that all. Thanks to Spanky, really
Speaker 1: generous with your time and your insight. And again, um, controversial.
Speaker 1: I think we we made that point earlier and uh,
Speaker 1: you know that needs to be pointed out the reasons why,
Speaker 1: and you've addressed that as well. Um, and people can
Speaker 1: sort of you know, for everybody listening, they're going to judge,
Speaker 1: for lack of a better term, however, it is that
Speaker 1: that they want to. Let me ask you this, Spanky,
Speaker 1: during the pandemic, you've got a you've got a massive operation.
Speaker 1: So I'm guessing that this is that your answer is
Speaker 1: going to have something to do. Uh regarding that, But
Speaker 1: the NFL draft, it occurs to me you make your
Speaker 1: hay as a guy, as we've talked about, who looks
Speaker 1: to get the best of the market, Uh, scalp or
Speaker 1: arbitrage er. Uh. There's no better example of a single
Speaker 1: event to me that allows for such opportunity as betting
Speaker 1: the NFL Draft, which of course was a month ago. Um.
Speaker 1: I didn't see you chiming in on the draft, so
Speaker 1: I assume that you didn't bet. It was that because
Speaker 1: you disagree with my assessment that it's this really good
Speaker 1: vehicle or is it just because its not worth it
Speaker 1: to you either from a limit standpoint or the fact
Speaker 1: that you have this operation you didn't want to do
Speaker 1: a one off with it. Yeah, it's the latter. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, it's one of those things in which um
Speaker 1: we um. You know, we were completely shut down at
Speaker 1: this point, and um you know, we deal with hundreds
Speaker 1: of betting partners and we have thousands of accounts, so
Speaker 1: you know, we we don't really want to establish figures
Speaker 1: because again everything's on the credit sides. We settle up
Speaker 1: on Mondays and whatnot, so we don't need to establish
Speaker 1: figures with guys just and possibly lose accounts, um for
Speaker 1: the future, just for you know a little bit of
Speaker 1: a morsel of something that is advantageous as the NFL
Speaker 1: props you know, granted, if we were betting baseball already
Speaker 1: in our accounts, already active, sure we dabble, and you know,
Speaker 1: we always dabbled and stuff like that. But given that
Speaker 1: we're completely shut down, we just felt and it wasn't
Speaker 1: the time to open back up, just temporarily for something
Speaker 1: that short term. Um, how about this, let's let's I'll
Speaker 1: just rapid fire with you here too. Just random thoughts
Speaker 1: that sort of come into into thinking here. Uh, if
Speaker 1: you were younger and you didn't have let's say your family,
Speaker 1: uh maybe even with a family, would you consider now,
Speaker 1: as new jurisdictions legalized sports betting, would you consider doing
Speaker 1: hitt and runs on the new states that legalize that
Speaker 1: are opening even if you knew you'd be quickly backed
Speaker 1: off or even shut down entirely. No, you know, the
Speaker 1: hit and run type thing. Um, you know, I'm at
Speaker 1: a point right now in which again I can't you know.
Speaker 1: You know, there's like a Griffin book for blackjack and
Speaker 1: advantage players, and if they ever create one for sports betting,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'll probably I I believe i'd probably
Speaker 1: be in something like that. Um, I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: the bookmaker. You know, the bookmakers that are in the
Speaker 1: know that know how to utilize um, guys like me.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm the best friend, but most bookmakers they're
Speaker 1: not a fan of me and and and the hit
Speaker 1: and run type thing is just not I'd rather come
Speaker 1: in the front door and be able to have a
Speaker 1: communication and to be able to you know, have him
Speaker 1: mutually beneficial relationship, to be able to use beards, and
Speaker 1: to be able to go in back door, and um,
Speaker 1: to be able to try to you know, hide my
Speaker 1: my identity. It's just not one of those things, you know,
Speaker 1: hit and run. What am I gonna last a day?
Speaker 1: Two days a week tops? Um? It just doesn't make sense. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I have all these videos on my Twitter
Speaker 1: feed because you know, I wanted to just show that,
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people don't believe that you
Speaker 1: can get kicked out of sports book and this is
Speaker 1: such a very common occurrence, you know, for places like
Speaker 1: a William Hill or or Draft Kings or or other places.
Speaker 1: This just happens. And I remember, you know, the William
Speaker 1: Hill guy. I'm like, how do you guys do this?
Speaker 1: And and and how how do your customers you know,
Speaker 1: not complain? He goes, well, nobody ever finds out. And
Speaker 1: when he told me that, and I knew, go ahead
Speaker 1: finishing the fish, because I'm I'm teaming to get in there.
Speaker 1: Fish thought, I'm sorry, go ahead, thank you right here
Speaker 1: on a numbers game at Viason, the sports betting network.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, he said, you know, customers never find out,
Speaker 1: And by then I already had the tape of them
Speaker 1: kicking me out. And I'm like, that's a shame, because listen,
Speaker 1: you know, I uh, you know, customers need to find out. Um,
Speaker 1: And and it's just one of those things which William
Speaker 1: Hill has gotten away with using this recreational model. And
Speaker 1: that's fine, that's the prerogative. But um, the world should
Speaker 1: know that this is how they operate the world should
Speaker 1: know that. Hey, listen, if you become successful enough, um,
Speaker 1: they might be saying, hey, patting on the back, great job.
Speaker 1: But if you become good enough and they believe they
Speaker 1: can't beat you, instead of patting you on the back,
Speaker 1: they're gonna kick you in the ass. Well, okay, so
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to bring it up, but you
Speaker 1: you obviously beat me to the punch there, and I
Speaker 1: don't want to necessarily spend the next fifteen minutes. You know,
Speaker 1: because because we've you know, people know where where most
Speaker 1: professional betters stand. On William Hill. I've had my own
Speaker 1: experience with him. It's pinned to my Twitter at beating
Speaker 1: the book if anybody wants to listen to it after
Speaker 1: the show. But it really you you made the point there,
Speaker 1: and I think it needs to be stressed. Every business
Speaker 1: has the right to conduct themselves as they want, right,
Speaker 1: and they clearly have a business model um prior to
Speaker 1: European influence, certainly after European influence, where they are not
Speaker 1: welcoming the action of successful betters. Now they parse that
Speaker 1: with words, right, they say when people say they kick
Speaker 1: out winning betters, they respond by saying, we don't kick
Speaker 1: out winning betters, when really it's about the notion that
Speaker 1: it's not that you have one, it's that they predict
Speaker 1: that you will win based on your betting up to
Speaker 1: that point. But it's not you're not contending with their model.
Speaker 1: It's just the fact that they don't cop to the
Speaker 1: fact that they do that, and that they don't cop
Speaker 1: to that. And I'm you tell me where I'm wrong
Speaker 1: with the words here, because I'm sort of filling this
Speaker 1: in where when they don't cop to that, it becomes
Speaker 1: almost a predatory thing because all of us who are
Speaker 1: betting from the most first time better to the most
Speaker 1: advanced better, you are operated under this tacit covenant that
Speaker 1: one day, if I get good at this, I'm going
Speaker 1: to win, and I can expect to win. But when you,
Speaker 1: when you behave in a way that isn't honest about
Speaker 1: the fact that that's not how this is gonna go ultimately,
Speaker 1: because if you get good, if we think you're gonna
Speaker 1: be good, we're going to give you the chance. That's
Speaker 1: really the issue not admitting to that, right, it's not
Speaker 1: the model. It's not admitting to it. And it's not
Speaker 1: just not admitting to it guilt, but also denying it
Speaker 1: when asked, uh, you know, when asked up front. You know,
Speaker 1: I I have a video on my Twitter where I
Speaker 1: asked Joe Asher, plain and simple, I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: will you ever try to implore proper risk management that
Speaker 1: you welcome all customers? And he just says on all
Speaker 1: that stuff about us kicking people out, that's all fabricated
Speaker 1: and that's all overblown out of proportion um. You know, again,
Speaker 1: you're you're just completely denying it. Um. Where I know
Speaker 1: people that have had you know, literally ninety beards get
Speaker 1: kicked out of William Hill and and it's just it's
Speaker 1: it's it's one of those things. And like you just said,
Speaker 1: you you you brought up, you hit the nail on
Speaker 1: the head. It's one thing if if you if you
Speaker 1: decide to kick out winners, that's your prerogative. But when
Speaker 1: you when you when you when you don't admitute when
Speaker 1: I asked about it, Um, that's what it becomes a problem.
Speaker 1: That's when you're starting an out lie to the public
Speaker 1: and and and also to your credit to what you said.
Speaker 1: You know, every sports better out there, I never met
Speaker 1: a sports better. It doesn't think they can't win, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't. You know, it's it's a different form of gambling.
Speaker 1: Everybody that places a sports bet thinks, to God's guest
Speaker 1: best thing, the next best thing to handicapping or predicting sports. Um,
Speaker 1: just because you know, there's that fallacy where they think
Speaker 1: if they know sports that they could you know, okay,
Speaker 1: they could probably beat sports betting. But everybody has that dream,
Speaker 1: and I think everybody should have that right to dream
Speaker 1: that dream actually feeds the business. It feeds industry that
Speaker 1: allows bookmakers to make enough money to pay guys like me.
Speaker 1: So I want that dream to stay alive, and that
Speaker 1: dream should stay alive. But at the same time, um,
Speaker 1: if that dream is stifled, if if if that dream
Speaker 1: is not present, then then sports better should know about that,
Speaker 1: should say hey, listen, why should I give my business
Speaker 1: to a place that, if I do get good enough,
Speaker 1: that's gonna kick me in the ass and say hey,
Speaker 1: you're not welcome. Instead, they should be given their business
Speaker 1: to two sports books that welcome them irregards you know, uh,
Speaker 1: irregardless of of whether or not they're gonna win, or
Speaker 1: whether or not you know they're sharp or not. You know,
Speaker 1: that's the thing that you know you kind of want
Speaker 1: like that circuit south Point. These guys accept customers. God, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: do you do you believe in? And again I want
Speaker 1: to move away from them because there's again they have
Speaker 1: every right to operate however they want. And there are
Speaker 1: like with everything, not everything is black and white. There
Speaker 1: are fine people who work. They're just like you know
Speaker 1: in any place as well. And I guess what I'm
Speaker 1: saying just from a from a macro standpoint, you believe
Speaker 1: that in the end books that don't whatever the book is,
Speaker 1: that that doesn't welcome and you and you distinguish those
Speaker 1: books from what you just said, from the circus and
Speaker 1: the south points of the world that do. But it's
Speaker 1: actually what you're saying is their model you believe ultimately
Speaker 1: cost them money because they could actually use that information
Speaker 1: from sharp betters. Because here's the thing. If you take
Speaker 1: this evolution further, and again not talking about any specific
Speaker 1: sports book here because I want to get away from that,
Speaker 1: but if you if ultimately you don't use sharp better
Speaker 1: information from behind the book to sort of help you
Speaker 1: with Oh, this is information we could use to our advantage.
Speaker 1: If you eliminate that sect of betters, and then you
Speaker 1: only have, for lack of a better term here, square
Speaker 1: betters or more novice betters. Eventually that those betters will
Speaker 1: crap out, and then what do you really have left.
Speaker 1: I know I'm taking that to an almost ridiculous extreme,
Speaker 1: but it's not that outland. This is it not at all?
Speaker 1: You know, I've seen it with my own eyes. I've
Speaker 1: been down a coast street. I've seen some of the
Speaker 1: world's best and biggest operations. Some of the best bookmakers operate,
Speaker 1: and these guys understand how to pitch sharps against each other.
Speaker 1: You can't just book one sharp. You have to bring
Speaker 1: them all on. And you have to bring scalpers, middlers,
Speaker 1: guys in arbitrage to be able to warrant action and
Speaker 1: to be able to entice people giving your price, to
Speaker 1: be able to warrant action on the side that you want.
Speaker 1: So it's a talent, and that's one of those things
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't want to invest in that talent.
Speaker 1: The best analogy I could give is, let's just say,
Speaker 1: you know, if you live, let's say in a rainy
Speaker 1: place like Seattle, and and you're having your basement is
Speaker 1: flooding every day, um and and you know the flood
Speaker 1: the water is is an analogous to the two sharp betters,
Speaker 1: and and all this water keeps coming in. So there's
Speaker 1: two ways you can handle that. You can hire a
Speaker 1: bucket brigade and you get a bunch of guys coming
Speaker 1: in with buckets to be able to just scoop the
Speaker 1: water out every single time, and that will solve the problem.
Speaker 1: And that's that's the you know, the William Hill approach.
Speaker 1: That's the let's just kick the sharps out, or instead
Speaker 1: you could pay a little bit more money. It's gonna
Speaker 1: cost you warn in in the short term, but you
Speaker 1: pay for money. You hire an engineer to be able
Speaker 1: to have that water, to be able to change your leveling,
Speaker 1: and to be able to siphen that water, and to
Speaker 1: be able to use that water, to be able to
Speaker 1: water your guard, going to be able to use it
Speaker 1: in other ways. This is the and and these are
Speaker 1: are are what the best bookmakers do. They're the engineers.
Speaker 1: They're able to use that water and to be able
Speaker 1: to use it accordingly and effectively instead of you know,
Speaker 1: look at the silver lining and your life gives you lemons.
Speaker 1: You make lemon a type thing, so you know, you're
Speaker 1: able to use those lemons to be able to make
Speaker 1: something great. And that's the thing. And it's so much
Speaker 1: more um long. It's a long term approach. And many
Speaker 1: people are afraid or they don't want to put the
Speaker 1: time and effort in to be able to solve these
Speaker 1: things long term. Because guys like cheinical, guys that are
Speaker 1: you know, that have been successful bookmaker dot you you know,
Speaker 1: Ray will be the first time to tell you, listen,
Speaker 1: we have sharps and they win. But that's okay because
Speaker 1: we utilize that information and and and and people don't know.
Speaker 1: And that's a talent. It's an art to be able
Speaker 1: to utilize that information, to be able to move enough
Speaker 1: to be able to entice a sharp to take plus
Speaker 1: four at you know, three pm Eastern, but at seven
Speaker 1: pm Eastern the line will close five and and and
Speaker 1: give and that when they when the sharp. When the
Speaker 1: sharp guy took plus four, the line was three and
Speaker 1: a half everywhere. So it's stuff like that. Now you
Speaker 1: might say, oh, that guy might not be that sharp
Speaker 1: if he took plus four, um, given the line close five.
Speaker 1: But that's okay because he believed that, you know what,
Speaker 1: it's not going to close plus five. So that's the thing.
Speaker 1: The best bookmakers are the ones that are able to
Speaker 1: warrant that action. And it's an art form. That is
Speaker 1: they're slowly dying. And it's a shame that it's dying.
Speaker 1: Um yeah, And and I mean it's a shame that.
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll see rights back. I mean, like you know,
Speaker 1: that's this is obviously one perspective on it. I mean,
Speaker 1: their counter would be you know if if if one
Speaker 1: of them in the room, they might be laughing, right,
Speaker 1: some European influenced sports book here might be laughing like,
Speaker 1: trust me, we got this, we know what we're doing.
Speaker 1: And in some respects we would have to be like,
Speaker 1: all right, well the proof is in there putting that's
Speaker 1: it's exploitation. But they got they got it down what
Speaker 1: they're doing. Um. What will be interesting is to see
Speaker 1: how CIRCU goes right in Colorado and beyond, because and
Speaker 1: again they've been sort of it's sort of been the
Speaker 1: comp for them has been the Pinnacle model. I'm not
Speaker 1: so sure how accurate that is exactly, but it does
Speaker 1: make sense or I think it is accurate to say
Speaker 1: that they're perhaps the closest thing, uh in terms of
Speaker 1: legalized operations, and it will be very interesting to see
Speaker 1: how profitable they are able to be doing it the
Speaker 1: way that you describe as the right way, right, because
Speaker 1: if it's not, let's just say it's not, then you
Speaker 1: can how till you know, whatever the expression is, toll
Speaker 1: whatever it is till the end of the day, and
Speaker 1: it's not gonna matter, right, So this will be interesting
Speaker 1: to observe because we only want the best for them,
Speaker 1: the great people. And uh, but but the proof will
Speaker 1: be in the pudding, won't it. No, absolutely, And I
Speaker 1: think just by having that you know, winners welcome policy,
Speaker 1: that's that's just a marketing thing that I think that
Speaker 1: Circle should be utilizing in a lot more um because
Speaker 1: you know, your recreational business is going to come if
Speaker 1: they that winners welcome policy, because then they know, listen,
Speaker 1: this is a sports book that I'm gonna have and
Speaker 1: no matter, you know, I'm gonna have that dream that
Speaker 1: one day I'm gonna be good enough. Again, most are
Speaker 1: not gonna be, but that dream is still is still alive,
Speaker 1: and they know they listen, I'm gonna be here. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be a customer forever. Um. And it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if right now I might be losing better, but one
Speaker 1: day I might win. So this is something that you
Speaker 1: know that that that circle can say that no other
Speaker 1: sports book or very few sports books can actually say, Hey, listen,
Speaker 1: winners are welcome. Come one, come all. We accept your action.
Speaker 1: We don't um uh look at whether or not um
Speaker 1: that you're winning. And you know we're not gonna be
Speaker 1: biased on on your type of play. And and again
Speaker 1: I think marketing, from a marketing standpoint, it should be capitalized.
Speaker 1: They should capitalize on that because it's a very unique thing.
Speaker 1: And um and again, Pinnacle just doesn't make great money
Speaker 1: based on book and all the sharps. You know, Pinnacle,
Speaker 1: a lot of them. They book a lot of sucker
Speaker 1: business because of their winners welcomes policy. So you know,
Speaker 1: sure they have a lot of sharps, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: but they're still they obviously got a lot of sucker
Speaker 1: business because of their marketing that listen, come one, come all.
Speaker 1: They publish articles on how good it is, on how
Speaker 1: to handicap games, and how to model. You know, they're
Speaker 1: they're not afraid to give information out there to say listen,
Speaker 1: come and get us, no problem. And and that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's the old school bookmaker. These are the guys when
Speaker 1: I was first coming in the business, Um, that I've
Speaker 1: seen and that I you know, the best of the best.
Speaker 1: You know guys from Arkansas guy, but I name of
Speaker 1: Mr Green, probably one of the best bookmakers I've ever
Speaker 1: seen in my life. You know, these guys, you know,
Speaker 1: hundred thousand our best smoking a cigar and a room
Speaker 1: in Costa Rica, not even flinching, you know, it just
Speaker 1: you know, it might move the line of penny. They
Speaker 1: understand their customers, they understand how to move numbers, they
Speaker 1: understand how to warrant action, to attract action, to be
Speaker 1: able to maximize their earn and um and and and
Speaker 1: it's an art that, unfortunately we said GIL is dying,
Speaker 1: but hopefully Circle or others can bring it back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because because if not, and this is you know, this
Speaker 1: has been my rallying cry even since before legalization two
Speaker 1: years ago. If you know, the game is not not
Speaker 1: stacked in favor of the better, but if there's nothing
Speaker 1: for the better to uh to really bet into that's
Speaker 1: favorable in terms of pricing, um, then the very thing
Speaker 1: that they're trying to do get people not to bet
Speaker 1: an illegal markets, to not to bet offshore, is going
Speaker 1: to be the very thing that they accomplish to get
Speaker 1: people to have a better betting experience. And the only
Speaker 1: place to find that will be offshore. So it's this
Speaker 1: fascinating thing to observe, right absolutely, and and and you know,
Speaker 1: let's beyond the there is no professional sports better in
Speaker 1: the world today that it's just betting domestically. Um, It
Speaker 1: just it just doesn't happen that there's you can't the
Speaker 1: app it cannot the domestic sports books, legal sports books
Speaker 1: cannot fill that appetite. You have to batt off shorn
Speaker 1: and able to and in Asia to be able to
Speaker 1: get down um enough to make it worth your while. UM.
Speaker 1: You know you kind of wish that wasn't the case. UM,
Speaker 1: but it is the case, and it's a fact, and
Speaker 1: I don't see changing anytime soon. UM. But hopefully guys
Speaker 1: that come up, you know, like Circa and others, UM
Speaker 1: can help UM bring that you know, that American beast
Speaker 1: in you know, American raised bookmaking mentality, not a European
Speaker 1: based bookmaking mentality. Hopefully that can start, you know, propagating
Speaker 1: through the nation and um, and hopefully we can see
Speaker 1: an influx of of bookmakers not dressmakers. Listen, speky Uh,
Speaker 1: I've got thirty more questions, but they'll have to wait
Speaker 1: for another time. I really appreciate it, and I hope,
Speaker 1: you know, the main thing about these profiles that I wanna,
Speaker 1: you know, get across is I want to be able
Speaker 1: to educate, maybe inspire some folks who are listening, like
Speaker 1: oh wow, like I really this guy really resonates with me.
Speaker 1: Or maybe it's the opposite. Maybe there are people listening
Speaker 1: who are like, man, I hate this, dude, this is
Speaker 1: something that I would never want to do. That's not
Speaker 1: in my d n A. But what I what I
Speaker 1: hope because because trust me, I'll get from this. I'll
Speaker 1: get heat from all kinds of different directions. Right Like,
Speaker 1: it's never you can never please everybody. Um, but I
Speaker 1: really appreciate you stepping forth and and some of those
Speaker 1: things early on here are not the easiest to discuss
Speaker 1: because as you and I have talked elsewhere, I come
Speaker 1: from a background where I like to originate, and so
Speaker 1: I gravitate towards that side of thinking as well. And
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a camp that understands that it's part
Speaker 1: of the ecosystem and is going to just be accepted
Speaker 1: of it. And there's gonna be a camp that's like, no,
Speaker 1: screw that guy. He's nothing but uh, you know, he's
Speaker 1: nothing but a leash. He's nothing but a guy who's
Speaker 1: who's going on our work. But I really appreciate you
Speaker 1: being honest and forthright about it and and stepping into
Speaker 1: it and talking with us, because I think you've done
Speaker 1: a service to uh many out there who are listening. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and again, the people that hate on me or unfortunately
Speaker 1: guys that are not as successful. You know, the most
Speaker 1: successful guys don't hate on me on They understand that
Speaker 1: this is what I do. And I'm just like everybody else.
Speaker 1: I'm a nice guy trying to earn UM and I
Speaker 1: work just as hard as anybody else, if not harder. Um.
Speaker 1: You know. Again, I used my tools and everything, and
Speaker 1: I became successful and and it's been a pleasure of
Speaker 1: This business has been great to me and and I
Speaker 1: wouldn't trade it from me in the world. Thanks so
Speaker 1: much for having me Jo, Spanky, Thank you appreciate it. Man.
Speaker 1: We'll do it again, Spanky right here on a numbers
Speaker 1: game at Visa and the Sports Betting Network. We'll do
Speaker 1: more of these next week. Joe Peter fascinating Wall Street background,
Speaker 1: UH and flirtation with all kinds of things in the
Speaker 1: sports that antate and thin contading. Did hear