WEBVTT - Beating the Book: Spanky 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:11.680 Check it down, man, now down. Then it's the beating 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:14.960 of the book podcast Kill Alexander. Hope you're doing well. 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.080 I hope you're staying safe, having fun as much as 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.680 you can during this strange time in our lives. Thanks 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:22.760 for tuning in again today. I hope you liked our 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:27.000 last podcast, the Tennis Betting Masterclass with Dan Weston. Today, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.319 I continue what has really been a treat during this 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:36.640 surreal time, a series of profiles of not just professional betters, 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.000 but all kinds of people who inhabit this industry of ours, 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:45.280 from Alan Boston to Rufus Peabody, Alan Dakinson, Captain Jack Andrews, 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:49.520 Dr Bob Ray Marino from Bookmaker. I think I got 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:51.960 everybody and there maybe I left somebody out, but I 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:56.120 just appreciate it. So grateful for the time that everybody 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:58.320 has so generously given and the insights that have been 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:03.640 provided today on the show. Oh Spanky, who definitely inhabits 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.959 a unique place in the sports betting ecosystem. Spanky was 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:09.319 kind enough to sit down for over an hour when 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.000 you include commercials, won't be quite that long here, but 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:15.880 over an hour with me to talk about his experience, 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.560 what shaped him as a better and just how unique 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:24.080 his entire approaches. I think you'll find an insightful lots 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:26.480 of reaction to this one. At first aired on the 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:28.559 Numbers Game at Visa. If you haven't had a chance, 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:31.520 enjoy it right here, right now on the Beating the 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:39.360 Book podcast, Spanky, It's a numbers game with your host, 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:44.440 Jil Alexander untold juniors to believe in Adam Lives. It 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:46.320 is the Numbers Game right here at Visa, the Vegas 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:50.400 Dads and Information Network. Good morning to you Serious x 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.120 M Channel two O four, Visa dot Com, the Visa Apps, 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:56.080 Fobo slaying at Game Plus. Right here at the Sports 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.760 Fitting Network, it is Gil Alexander, Live in the Bay, 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.440 Live at San Francisco. Hope you stay It's safe. I 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:06.800 hope you're staying well for the balance of the show today. 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.560 It's a continuation of what I've tried to do during 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:13.440 this pandemic, because, honestly, if not now when getting to 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.800 profile um some of the people that interest me in 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:23.200 this business, some legends, some modern day guys who have 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:28.239 a place in the sports betting ecosystem. Rufus Peabody, Captain 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:32.400 Jack Andrews, Allen Boston Bob Stole. Last week Ray Marino 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.560 from Bookmaker was on. So this has been an absolute 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.799 pleasure to do this, trying to make lemonade out of 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.720 lemons here during the strange time in our lives. Today 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.919 that series continues, and I talked about the sports betting ecosystem. 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.959 He definitely has a unique spot in the sports betting 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:53.520 ecosystem for reasons that will become a parent as we 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:56.840 have our discussion today, Uh, not without controversy. We'll get 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:58.840 into some of that as well. Uh. And he goes 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:03.320 by the name of Spanky. Spanky from somewhere in New Jersey. There, Spanky, 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:05.720 thank you so much for doing this, Thanks for being 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:07.720 on the show. Great to see you man there you are, 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:09.640 Thanks for having me to go there. I am. How 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:13.080 you doing, brother, I'm doing very well. Man. Let's start 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.960 as I do with uh with everybody. Well, first of all, 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.560 I just called you Spanky. Obviously that's not the name 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.560 of your birth certificate. How did you get that name? Spanky? 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:24.959 You know, so growing up, my mother was a big 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.040 fan of Little rascals, and um, I was kind of 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:30.440 always getting into trouble. So she just decided, you know, 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:33.280 I kind of called me spanking, and then that was 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.560 my password, um, when I was betting all these years offshore. 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.160 So when ever i'd call in the sports book, you know, 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:42.880 my six to three spanky, one one six spanky. So 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:44.600 then they, you know, guys would just say, hey, what 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.440 do you need spanking? And then it just stuck where 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.800 people just started, uh just called me by my password, 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.920 and um, you know it's stuck since. Yeah, I I 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:57.240 thought it would have some little rascals origin originally. So 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.480 let's start. Let's start as we do with everybody here. Uh, 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:02.680 your first First of all, where'd you grow up, your 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:08.600 first experiences, uh with betting, How that inspired you, how 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.080 that shaped you? Let's start at the beginning. Yeah, so 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:13.800 you know I went, I grew up in Jersey City, 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.000 New Jersey. Um, and uh, you know I always liked 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.800 sports growing up. I was always a big fan. Um 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:21.640 when it comes to betting. I would you know, play 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:25.320 paul A cards, um and you know the football tickets 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.479 and um, I would run Parley cards for a bookmaker 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.400 out of Hoboken for a little bit. So um. And 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.960 you know, you know you start learning kind of early 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:35.919 on that it's it's so much better to be the 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:39.520 house and that kind of business. Um, so you know, 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:41.680 I realized that, you know a very few people went 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.000 on these parlor a cards, you know. The bookmaker then 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.080 and Hoboken would say, let's not give you a cut. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.760 You just helped me distribute these cards. So I was 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.000 helping with that for a little bit through high school 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.120 and a little bit into college. Um. You know, I 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.680 went to Ruget University, and um, I received the bachelors 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:01.200 in finance and computer science. So um, you know, during 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:05.160 my time in college, I was again, I was fascinated 0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.320 by gambling in general. I always wanted to kind of 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.359 like beat the game. So I'd read a lot of 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:13.039 blackjack books, a lot of poker books, and but you know, 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.520 sports betting was always like my first love and it's 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:17.200 something that I just you know, up until then, I 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.000 couldn't beat. So I was always wondering how could I 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:22.680 beat it? And I was taking this class in college. 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.560 It was called Internet Technologies, where um, you uh, you know, 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:28.880 you were able to One of the projects in the 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:30.800 class was You're able to go to a website and 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.480 you're able to parse data and part the hteam on 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:35.719 source code from that data. So I was able to 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.560 do that. I learned these things, I you know, using 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.160 Java on Perl and UM. I used these technologies and 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:43.919 I said, hey, wait a minute, maybe I could apply 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.920 this to the sports books and I could maybe part 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:51.680 their lines and UM and start looking for discrepancies. Around 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:53.520 that time, there was a book that came out in 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:57.080 the h by It's called A Complete Book of Sports 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.920 Betting by Jack Moore, and it was a different take 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.160 on sports betting, on how to beat sports betting. Instead 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.119 of you know which every other book will talk about 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.800 handicapping or making numbers and power ratings and everything, this 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.479 book introduced a method called the blindfold method, which essentially 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:14.160 was a way to be able to look for different 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:18.279 line discrepancies, different discrepancies and numbers and um, and to 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.600 be able to kind of bet the outlier UM and uh. 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:23.880 So I was able to say, okay, maybe I can 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:28.080 program that because this book was still one lines out there. 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:30.480 So you know, Jack Moore and his book will talk 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.760 about corn a nine line service, you know what I mean, 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.520 crazy stuff like this, but the print, the underlying principle 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:40.520 want to be able to look for discrepancies. So I said, maybe, um, 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:42.880 I can write some code of the stuff that I 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:44.800 just learned in my class. I think it's you know, 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:46.919 it's always great to be able to apply directly what 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.680 you learn in school um to uh to you know, 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.440 everyday life. And I started doing that and I saw 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:57.080 how how off some of these bookmakers were, and um, 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.680 you know, through my junior senior year of college. Then 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.200 I started, you know, just betting a little bit, you know, 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:05.279 betting betting, and I started saying, Wow, this thing could 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:09.600 actually work. But I wasn't, um, you know, ready to 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:13.280 go full force and say that's it. This is gonna 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.760 be my career. Um. So that was all through college. 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.800 You I'm going to get into maybe after I graduated 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.800 and where I started. Yeah, when you when you got 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.320 your job out of college, where was it? And then 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.840 how did your what you just described in your head 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.400 about sports betting excuse me, sort of overtake what you 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:36.760 were doing in your day job. Yeah. So, um, you know, 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:39.680 I uh, in my day job, I I worked at 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:43.400 Deutsche Bank, um, right on Wall Street and and and 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:44.760 it was great, you know what I mean. I was. 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:47.600 I was again, I had that unique computer science and 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.560 finance degree, so to be able to work in the 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.200 financial world as an I T guy. I kind of 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:57.400 understood things, and I I knew exactly what I was coding. 0:07:57.920 --> 0:07:59.680 So this was you know, it was it was. It 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:03.200 was a great position and I learned a lot. And 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:05.400 and from that though, I was always still betting sports 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.360 on the side using this program. I kept fine tuning 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.200 this program I wrote through the last end of college 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.280 and then after graduation, and then it got to the 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.120 point where in in in two thousand three, which is 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.160 three I graduated two thousand where I said to myself, 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.560 I'm like, you know what, I'm making more money on 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.960 this side than I was at my regular job. So 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.080 you know, I was just married at the time and 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:30.920 just recently married, and I told my wife, I think 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:34.079 it's it's time to make the plunge here, um and 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.480 and become a professional sports bettor. And you know, I 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.760 got a lot of a lot of definitely, you know, 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.199 push back. You know, my family, my mother and all 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:44.800 my a lot of like, you know, you know, I mean, 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.440 we went to college. How are you gonna bet sports 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:49.360 for a living? This is this is a pipe dream, 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:53.120 This doesn't exist. Um. And then you know, nobody understood 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:54.920 though that I wasn't just gonna say I'm gonna bet 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.520 sports for living without testing it for several years prior. 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.160 So UM that that helped me get my start and 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:03.680 help I had the basis, had the foundation, and I 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:05.319 knew I was going to be successful. I just had 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:09.000 to put the work, the time in and um and 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.920 use a lot of the methods of what I learned 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:17.480 in the blindfold method to just look for discrepancies. Talking 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:19.079 to spank you by the way, right here in a 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.720 numbers game at vast in the sports betting networks, Gil Alexander, 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:26.760 So part, let me ask you this. Obviously one doesn't 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.120 well maybe it's not obvious. One I would assume doesn't 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.960 have the initial thought, oh, I'm gonna make these systems 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.880 and beat sports betting that way. I assume for some 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:39.520 period of your life you tried, you tried betting sports 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:43.240 the old fashioned way, just with your opinion. UM, how 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:47.280 did that go? Initially? Just so you know, just like 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.439 most it went pretty bad. I you know, I in 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.040 my opinion is I didn't have a good opinion. You know, 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.200 I used to be a big sports fan. UM. I 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.160 used to like sports. I used to watch sports. I 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.920 enjoyed sports. UM. And you know, just like everybody else. 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:02.760 I thought I could just watch a game and then 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:04.760 you know, to be able to just look at the game, 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:06.800 see what happened in the game, and then you know 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:09.240 the next week's games or the next day's games, know 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.000 what to predict what's gonna happen uh the next day. 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.960 And um, you know, you learned fast that that's not 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:19.440 a winning formula. So um. And I was always you know, 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:22.320 being a computer scientist, it was always important for me 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:26.680 to try to create some type of a black box approach, um, 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.280 to be able to just take opinions out of everything 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:31.280 and to be able to just feed in the data 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:33.560 and for it to be able to crank out. Hey, listen, 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:35.280 this is the best thing now. You know, in the 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:37.120 beginning when I was doing is, I was middling, and 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.000 I was scalping games, and this was an important thing 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:41.960 to be a help build my bank roll and to 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.760 minimize my risk. So I would look for discrepan season 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:46.560 and you know, I would lay five and take seven 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.800 on the same game and and you know, hope the 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.400 game landed five or seven for a pushing a win, 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.080 or land six for a double win. So I was 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.560 doing that a lot, and I was slowly building my 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.800 bank roll. And you know, in order to do that, 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:00.800 of course, you know, I had to I had to 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.160 know what every half a point was worth. That was big. 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:05.480 So there was a website. I actually checked it out, 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.360 um a few months ago. It was called the Logical 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.280 Approach dot com. And I keep in mind this was 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.559 um and uh, you know, the Internet was still relatively 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.040 you know, in its infancy stages, so there wasn't really 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.800 much places to buy data. So this guy by name 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:22.920 of andyus koe or and I don't know how to 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.640 say his last name, Andy Isco ran this website and Disco, yeah, 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.120 and Disco ran the Logical Approach dot com. And if 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.920 you go to that website, it looks the exact same 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:37.559 as it looked back in two thousands. Um, it hasn't changed. 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:39.520 And he was one of the few, if and if 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:43.199 not the only, that was actually selling data pass past data, 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.199 online history and you know closing line and and and 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.680 you know, home away stuff and all this. So I 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:51.960 was able to use that data to try and to 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:54.040 find out, you know, what half points worth. I remember 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.680 the college data went back to maybe nine eighty nine 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:01.240 or nine. I remember the NFL data went back to two. Um. 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:03.960 I distinctly remember that because you know, a lot of 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:05.480 the data I had to clean up. You know, a 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.200 lot of the NFL data pre pre two point conversion 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.600 wasn't really applicable, applicable you know, for the new game. 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.040 The game had changed, and a lot of different numbers 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:18.760 were worth a lot of different values. You know, four 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.000 on because of the two point conversion. You know, obviously 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.000 the one would lose value because you know, if a 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.040 team is down to they're obviously gonna go for two, 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.160 so they're not gonna kick the extra point, so the 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.120 one would land a lot less. But then of course 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.320 you know, if the two would be worth more, the 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.760 five would be worth more, and of course the three 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:36.440 would be worth more because if they convert the two 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.319 point conversion, that's a higher chance of overtime, etcetera, etcetera. 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.480 So these are things that you know, you kind of 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:44.920 I was able to try to uh extract that and 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:46.640 know what every half point it was worth, and know 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.040 what a profitable middle was. And that was the biggest 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:51.960 thing for me to be able to take that approach, 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:56.480 and and and and and and and take it from 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.720 essentially a top down approach um where I'm just looking 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.760 for nd the discrepancies instead of a bottom up approach 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.120 where I'm actually trying to create power ratings and create 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:08.280 lines myself. So just to sort of just to sort 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.120 of summarize what you're saying for because there's a lot 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.280 of people who are going to be listening here and 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.520 are not the most sophisticated bears might not catch onto 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.320 what you're saying. So instead of being, you know, a 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.320 guy who originates at a guy who handicaps games, you 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:24.760 applied concepts that you were first fascinated by, first of 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.240 all growing up and then obviously in school, but the 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.719 ones that you really honed in Wall Street and essentially 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:35.600 applied those principle, those trading principles to sports betting. And 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.200 there's a story that's that's pretty famous. You at Deutsche Bank, 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.240 you were middling, you were losing juice, as as as 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:45.240 middling goes uh and um then one day, of course 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:47.040 you hit them, and then you hit another, and you 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.080 hit another and then you realize, well, I'm onto something 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.520 here obviously, um so. And and by the way, what 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.520 you were just describing to actually hone your craft to 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.640 figure out the value of what every point uh means 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.040 I think just on its surface, universally, people will listen 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:04.559 to that and they'll be like, oh, that's I mean, 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.920 that's awesome. How can you how can you not appreciate that. 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.400 On the other hands, Banky as you know, uh, that's 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:15.680 not without controversy, right, So as you have grown your 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:20.440 operation because your operation is vastly larger now than it 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:25.400 was then, Uh, you hold this very unique place in 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:30.400 the betting ecosystem. And obviously bookmakers they don't like uh, 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.640 you know what they call uh, what's the term they 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.920 use for it again, scraping? What is the term they 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.040 use is different from what we would call it on 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:43.000 our side, But it's the The issue is also not 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.160 only behind the book because you're you're chasing numbers from 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:52.720 their perspective, but originators, people who actually do handicap their stuff. Um, 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:57.080 they are not fans of yours because it's not as 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.960 benign as you you know, just how having this network 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.640 and box associated with it where you can you know, 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:09.160 spread it out and middle at will uh scalping. By 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:10.840 the way, what percentage of your business would you say 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.400 is scalping? What percentage of your business would you say 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:17.880 is actually taking a position based on other opinions. Well 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:20.640 we we Initially it was all middling and scalping. Now 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.880 we're taking positions. Um, but I'm still if I'm heavy 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:25.880 on a position and um, and if I want to 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.440 be able to limit my exposure, I'm definitely gonna be 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:30.800 able to buy back. I have you know, designated cold 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:32.600 accounts that are able to help me buy back to 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.720 help mitigate my risk. Um okay, yeah yeah. What would 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:38.880 you what would you say? What would you say about 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:43.800 the criticism levied by originators who are like, all right, um, yeah, 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:47.400 that's great and all spanky, but you're essentially taking all 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:51.120 of our work and capitalizing on it to such an 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.960 extent now with your network that it almost becomes this massive, 0:15:55.840 --> 0:16:01.480 uh massive greed money grab and we're actually the ones 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:05.360 doing all the real work. What would you say? Not listen, 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:09.200 you know that there's a negative connotation originator non originator. Um. 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.800 You know I originate millions of dollars annually, so that 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.360 you know this whole originator thing, it means nothing to me. Um. 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.640 The minute somebody places a bet into a market and 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.480 that market reacts to that, and a bookmaker moves the 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.360 line that's public information. So I'm just utilizing I know, 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.720 I um, I've I've found a way and we could 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.280 discuss this um more in detail, but I found a 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:36.240 way to understand you know early on that UM. You know, 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.280 you want to work smarter, not harder, UM. And and 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.480 the way to work smarter is to be able to 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:45.800 look for discrepities and find out what's missing UM versus 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.120 just UM. You know, try to create something from scratch. UM. 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.520 And again there's a lot of different technologies, a lot 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.000 of different tools that were built. And you know, the 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:59.400 hard the hard work that we've done UM on our 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.800 end um is incredible. Uh. You know, you know again 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.960 I might I've been using Bob betting for soham long 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.399 and it's one of those things in which you just 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.480 it's it's it's our operations, like you said, has skilled incredible. 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.280 We'll we'll flesh that out a little more when we 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:17.760 come back. Also want to get in a whole bunch 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:21.920 of other stuff with Spanky. How he balances, uh keeps 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.720 accounts with what he does. I mean, that's an entire 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.960 art form in and of itself. Spanky right here exclusively 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:31.399 especial edition of a numbers game right here at the 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:35.000 Sports Betting Network. Welcome back to a numbers game with 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:39.280 Jill Alexander. A numbers game at Vison brought you by 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.200 man Escaped dot Com. Man Escape dot Com as the 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.200 tools for your family jewels. You can get off plus 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:47.439 free shipping with the code V sent at man escape 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:52.080 dot com. That's off at man escaped dot Com with 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.480 promo code v S. I n saw the UH Shark 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.800 Tank rerun last night where both Mark Cuban and Lorie 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.760 Grenier actually buy in to invest in man Escaped, so 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.240 that was interesting to see yesterday. It is Gial Alexander 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.919 live in San Francisco. Spanky kind enough to join us 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.919 for most of the show here today Chris Andrews and 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:12.840 Paul Carr coming up later. I want to give you 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:14.600 a chance here, Snakey, to flesh out what we're talking 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.000 about before the break um for those who missed it, 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.360 again talking about Spanky's network and the notion of originators 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:24.360 UH taking issue with it, and you know, I would 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.040 sort of add on to that and you can address 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.680 it all at once. I guess do you ever, do 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:34.479 you ever have moments where you have any doubt about 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.080 what it is that's doing any scruples about it, I guess, 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:38.480 and the other thing, you know, and this is sort 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:39.840 of a random thought, and I hope you I'm not 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:41.880 trying to be flippant with this, but I always think 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:46.680 about if we were back years however, far back in time, 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.120 and you did this, then, like if there was an 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.040 old if those were old school wise guys, right or 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:58.080 mob guys, like, how that would fly in a different era? Also, yeah, 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.440 you know, so just kind of explain a little bit more. 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.000 You know, there's two ways to make money in this business. 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.880 There's a top down approach and the bottom up approach. Um. 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.040 A bottom up approach essentially is gonna try to determine 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:12.240 what to bet. You know, what teams to bet on. 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.359 You create a handicap, you create power ratings, you crank 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.200 out a number and and and then you know you're 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:24.600 able to execute right the top down. Not only you know, 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:26.080 not only do you have to know what to bet 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.320 in in sports betting, you have to win tibet and 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:30.960 how to bet. And this is where you know, where 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.879 where we believe we're we become experts on so what 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:37.040 tibet becomes. You know, we're able to analyze this information 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:39.880 and and we kind of are able to analyze line 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.080 moves and then we know how to bet and when 0:19:43.119 --> 0:19:46.080 the bet. How to bet meaning um, you know, to 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.160 be able to get down a significant amount of money 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.600 in a short period of time, um, using automated betting 0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.240 tools and whatnot, and when tibet, knowing how to time 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.840 the market, knowing exactly when I could come in at 0:19:57.840 --> 0:19:59.679 the peak if I'm gonna let's just say, you know, 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.159 take a dog and a line is seven, but I 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:03.399 feel as if I could get a seven and a 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.200 half knowing when to wait, to be able to see 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.359 when that line will will will will peak. And that's 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.359 just an art. That's just something you learn. Um. With 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:16.280 respect to uh, to anybody having taking issue with what 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.840 I do, again, all the stuff I use is public information. Um. 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.879 You know, we're always trying to find the information and 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:24.760 some of it's not so public just to be honest, 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:26.439 you know what I mean, Like they're there. You know, 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:28.520 it's a lot of hard work. When I was coming 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.719 up in a business, you know, we would call different 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.040 schools and and and and and you know, try to 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:36.560 talk to school newspapers or try to call athletic departments 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:38.160