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Speaker 1: What is the way a man is supposed to smell like?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, put truly sandalwood, musk like these like

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Speaker 1: wood like you's.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jessica Bennett and I'm Susie Bannacharam.

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Speaker 1: And this is in retrospect, where each week we revisit

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Speaker 1: a cultural moment from the past that shaped us.

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Speaker 2: And that we just can't stop thinking about.

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Speaker 1: So if you listen to our episode about Pacey and

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Speaker 1: Dawson's Creek, you'll know that we spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time dissecting what was happening during that era. But Susie,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. I just in recording that, I felt

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Speaker 1: like you cannot truly understand that era without really understanding

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Speaker 1: the scent that emanated from the halls of every middle

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Speaker 1: and high school. And that scent was Ax's body spray

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Speaker 1: really in the.

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Speaker 2: Two thousands, because yeah, because my era really had Dracar

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Speaker 2: Noir that was are sent and I think they're similar.

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Speaker 1: Sense actually, well, okay, so here's the thing. I have

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Speaker 1: a little surprise for you.

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Speaker 2: Amazing.

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Speaker 1: I have a couple of bottles of acts. I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited that I got here, and the sense are anarchy

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Speaker 1: and let me look at this one dark temptation, So

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Speaker 1: why don't you just give them a little spride? See

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Speaker 1: see what you think about? Not amy, please?

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Speaker 2: No, not on you, not on you? But am I

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Speaker 2: just like spring it in the air?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 1: Oh that's okay, that's does that smell agnarchy? No, that's

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Speaker 1: dark temptation.

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Speaker 2: That's dark temptation. That does smell like gracar with like

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Speaker 2: a little extra vanilla in it. Okay, let's smell anarchy.

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Speaker 1: The scent of anarchy which.

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Speaker 2: Said that it is dark pomegranate and sandal wood scented.

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Speaker 2: Hold please, oh god, that also smells like your car,

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Speaker 2: but with baby power, like I don't understand.

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Speaker 1: It's all right, So I have a headache.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: This is actually we should have done this.

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Speaker 2: Out.

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Speaker 1: Second, is this last recording? Because now we have to

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Speaker 1: sit in this all day? Oh my god. So anyhow,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if you remember what ax smelled like, so.

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Speaker 2: I didn't, So this is amazing. I mean I am

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Speaker 2: just a touch older than you, so we did not

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Speaker 2: have X body spray when I was in the hosol.

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Speaker 2: My god.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I mean this episode is really dedicated to

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Speaker 1: all the prepubescent boys of my high school and probably

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Speaker 1: yours if you're listening, and lived in the early two thousands,

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Speaker 1: and let me just give you a little background body,

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Speaker 1: because I mean, I don't know if people know the basics.

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Speaker 1: So for what it's worth, the sex body spray that

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Speaker 1: I've just sprayed for you was purchased at a Daine

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Speaker 1: read in South Williamsburg and so you can still get

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Speaker 1: it today. And also shouts to A Jada who was

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Speaker 1: the checkout woman who spotted my husband's sixty five cents

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Speaker 1: to be able to buy both bottles because his credit

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Speaker 1: card was or something happened, So thank you to her. Now.

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Speaker 1: Axe Body Spray was actually developed in France and it

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Speaker 1: first launched in Europe, which makes it sound like much

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Speaker 1: fancier than you might think. But it came to the

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Speaker 1: US in two thousand and two. And it was the

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Speaker 1: first cent that could do two things, which was be

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Speaker 1: a deodoran, an antipersponant, and a cologne at once. Oh interesting,

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Speaker 1: And so for guys of a certain era like that

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Speaker 1: was really you know, killing two birds with one stone,

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Speaker 1: I see.

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Speaker 2: So like before you had to put on deodorant and

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Speaker 2: like go to the drug store and buy drecardnoir, which

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Speaker 2: I guess some people may not know what that is,

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Speaker 2: so I should explain it. Dreccardnoir was this, I guess

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Speaker 2: perfume or I guess for Bennettes cologne that was available

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Speaker 2: in my high school years, mid middle school, high school,

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Speaker 2: and it was kind of the only scent that boys

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Speaker 2: of that age used, and it was very pungent. It

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Speaker 2: was very distinctive, and people would sort of like drown

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Speaker 2: themselves in it. But it definitely wasn't a deodorant. And

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Speaker 2: I just have to say, because I'm looking at the

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Speaker 2: packaging here that there's a couple funny things here. One

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Speaker 2: is is that it says it's forty eight hours of

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Speaker 2: high definition sense, so that is a long time for

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Speaker 2: your scent to last, I just want to say. And

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Speaker 2: also the directions just say spray to neck and chest,

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Speaker 2: which is like, but doesn't your deander go under your arm?

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Speaker 1: Is very confused, Say, you're right, that is weird, okay,

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Speaker 1: But there are different versions of it, so maybe this

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Speaker 1: is actually the scent version.

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Speaker 2: So it says deodorant body spray.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but honestly, like I can taste it

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Speaker 1: in my mouth, so now.

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Speaker 2: I mean I actually, let me say something, if you're

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Speaker 2: a thirteen year old boy, you probably smell pretty bad.

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Speaker 2: This is probably an improvement.

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Speaker 1: And that is literally what one of the add people

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Speaker 1: who came up with all of Access branding said in

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Speaker 1: multiple articles. It was like, sure, AX smells disgusting, but

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Speaker 1: have you ever smelled with their year old boy?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean thirteen year old boys smell bad.

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Speaker 1: And so I mean that's really that's what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about here. This saw us the sense of, you know,

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Speaker 1: a certain kind of prebevescent boy. And I weirdly know

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Speaker 1: a lot about Acts because a few years ago they

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Speaker 1: were trying to rebrand and I was going to do

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Speaker 1: a story about it.

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Speaker 2: I kind of remember this. They were like trying to

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Speaker 2: be more progressive, right, because it was such like a

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Speaker 2: male thing. It was like a rite of passage into

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Speaker 2: sort of like a very typical heterosexual masculinity.

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Speaker 1: Well, and so Access branding and marketing was famous, and

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Speaker 1: they in the early two thousands were in fact the

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Speaker 1: most sold, the most popular of this type of product,

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Speaker 1: and they were making millions and millions of dollars, so

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Speaker 1: it was very popular. And they got that way through

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Speaker 1: this kind of packaging and marketing, which was basically like

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Speaker 1: spray acts and you're gonna get ass.

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Speaker 2: As the smell the ladies love, You're gonna get all

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Speaker 2: the way.

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Speaker 1: But let me actually I wrote down suwhere okay, here

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Speaker 1: was the official tee spray more, get more, And so

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Speaker 1: it's basically all about sex. And they had these flavors

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Speaker 1: or scents or whatever. They were all like yeah, like

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Speaker 1: erotic sunshine or sorry, like hold.

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Speaker 2: On hand up, what is erotic sunshine?

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Speaker 1: Honestly, I think I just made that one up, but

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Speaker 1: they were like that, and so it was always like,

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Speaker 1: you know, what is the way a man is supposed

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Speaker 1: to smell? Like? I don't know, put truly sandalwood musk,

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Speaker 1: like these like wood flavors. And so the early advertisements

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Speaker 1: for acts, which if you grew up in this area

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Speaker 1: you probably remember, but let me just remind you of

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Speaker 1: a couple of them. The first real US ad was

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Speaker 1: called Mannequin, and it was like basically, a hot woman

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Speaker 1: shopping at a department store, she's like testing this axe

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Speaker 1: and she sprays it on a mannequin to smell it.

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Speaker 1: Here's the new do you call acts sprayed under your arms?

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Speaker 1: And then she's so turned on by the scent that

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Speaker 1: she has the mannequin spank. She's banking herself with the

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Speaker 1: mannequan's farm.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I have been naughty.

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Speaker 2: She's like bank me mannequin. That doesn't make any sense, okay.

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Speaker 1: And then there's another one called Billions, where quote unquote

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Speaker 1: billions of women are like running towards some dorky guy

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Speaker 1: who sprang ex body spray. And I think that's a

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Speaker 1: critical thing here too. It wasn't like targeted it guys

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Speaker 1: who were already traditionally hot or chiseled or popular. It

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Speaker 1: was targeted at the dorky guys who wanted to get girls,

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Speaker 1: and they really weren't shying away from like being kind

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Speaker 1: of raunchy. So there was another one in twenty ten

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Speaker 1: called clean your Balls.

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Speaker 2: The axe body spray was called that, or the ad.

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Speaker 1: The ad was called that, but it was for the

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Speaker 1: new maybe not new, but shower body wash. So it

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Speaker 1: was like and there was like a tennis player in love.

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Speaker 1: So no one wants to play with dirty equipment.

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Speaker 2: That's why I have to keep balls clean.

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Speaker 1: It's not bad advice for a boy.

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Speaker 2: Clean your ball. I can't even say that because It's

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Speaker 2: just a ridiculous wasn't there also when I'm bigly remembering

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Speaker 2: with Ben Affleck great memory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is so funny because I feel like Ben Affleck,

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Speaker 1: he's now grown on whatever, but he kind of embodies

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Speaker 1: this kind of like his like early So okay, yes,

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Speaker 1: Ben Affleck starred in one of these ads. He plays himself.

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Speaker 1: He's like going around l A doing errands like an

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Speaker 1: average day, and he's telling the number of women who

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Speaker 1: check him out. So okay, fine, as one does as

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Speaker 1: one does. So then he gets into an elevator with

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Speaker 1: like this you know, geeky guy, and the two compare

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Speaker 1: their numbers, and the joke, of course is that the

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Speaker 1: geeky guy who's wearing AS has way more chicks checking

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Speaker 1: in that.

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Speaker 2: I also like the idea that you can tally who's

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Speaker 2: checking you out, like what like what?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Amazing.

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Speaker 1: Clearly that advertisement would not in retrospects sex, so it's

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Speaker 1: also worth noting. Honestly, this is I'm not dramatic effect

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Speaker 1: AX has. When I was thinking about doing the story,

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Speaker 1: which I never ended up doing and I sort of regret,

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Speaker 1: but I was talking to them about how AX has

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Speaker 1: a real perfume mirror about how you say, how you

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Speaker 1: say word behind it, like there are real, very respected

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Speaker 1: people developing these fascinating and I think in Europe and

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Speaker 1: in the UK it was not marketed in the same

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Speaker 1: kind of like trashy, low brow way as it was

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Speaker 1: in the US. And interestingly, one of our friends who's British,

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Speaker 1: who's like you know, now in his early forties and

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Speaker 1: has a kid like still wears ax Bie ray, which

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Speaker 1: in the UK is called links, So it just doesn't

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Speaker 1: have quite the stick.

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Speaker 2: Can I say something with love about our European brethren

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Speaker 2: like they? I mean, I picture European men spelling like this,

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Speaker 2: like truly with love, Like I love European men. But

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Speaker 2: this is kind of the scent, you know, It's like

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Speaker 2: they have a kind of vibe that that this vibe

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Speaker 2: is with absolutely you know what else this kind of

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Speaker 2: reminds me of from this era, from the same era

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Speaker 2: is like the rise of the pickup Artist? Were you

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Speaker 2: ever did you ever watch that show on MTV about mystery?

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Speaker 2: Do you know what that show was? There was a

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Speaker 2: show on MTV. Of course I watched it because I

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Speaker 2: love every kind of trashy TV. It was about a

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Speaker 2: pick up artist named Mystery, and he would teach other

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Speaker 2: dorks how to become cool like him, and pick up

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Speaker 2: chicks meet the world's most successful pick up artists a

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Speaker 2: man who goes by only one name, Mystery, and then

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Speaker 2: there would be like challenges, like they take them to

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Speaker 2: the bar and they would teach them about negging.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember neggi?

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Speaker 2: Which is like when you say something mean to someone. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So there was like this whole kind of era. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was the pickup artist.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yes, wasn't this also the era of that book

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Speaker 1: The Game. I think it's by Neil Strauss. But this

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Speaker 1: was very much a time, like you're saying, even for

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Speaker 1: women too, were like Hollywood movies. It was like there

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Speaker 1: was always that moment where you were like taking the

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Speaker 1: glasses off the girl and suddenly she's supposed to be pretty. Yeah, gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: may I present to you the new and improved Jennie Briggs.

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Speaker 2: And also I think the thing about the pickup era

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Speaker 2: that's interesting is that it was involved this concept of peacocking.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember this, Where it's like part of what

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Speaker 2: you wanted to do as a man is stand out. So,

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Speaker 2: like the recommendation was that you wore like crazy hats.

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Speaker 2: You wore like a funny feather, like some weird I

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Speaker 2: really watched that show a lot. It was so bizarre.

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Speaker 4: But I.

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Speaker 2: To that right, like, you want to stand out, you

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Speaker 2: want to you want to have something that makes someone

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Speaker 2: like attracted to you, and this would be sort of

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Speaker 2: in that category of peacocking. I think.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I have a horrifying thing to tell you,

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Speaker 1: which is that when I was well, actually, when my

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Speaker 1: husband went to go purchase these X body space for me,

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Speaker 1: I was like, so, did you react and he's like, no,

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Speaker 1: not really, but actually, like I sort of remember spraying

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Speaker 1: it on my ball. I'm sorry what, which goes to

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Speaker 1: the the ad campaign we spoke about. So, honestly, we

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Speaker 1: should just call him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we should, because I want to understand

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Speaker 2: how the answer is, no, I did not, but yes,

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Speaker 2: I read it on my ball.

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Speaker 1: Also, I hate saying that word.

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Speaker 2: It's so disguising.

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Speaker 1: Is there some way to like, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: But the look on your face, like I really wish

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Speaker 2: people could see it because may be too.

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Speaker 1: Embarrassing to hear honestly, But well, but we'll call him

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Speaker 1: and we'll just like see how this works.

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Speaker 2: Okay, great, I can't wait. Hello Babe, Sam Hill, respect.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, this has been my dream.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, Sam. I have so many question Jenso.

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Speaker 1: Susie's going to leave this interview because I'm biased.

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Speaker 2: I mean, here's what I have to tell you. Yes,

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Speaker 2: is that the way Jessica presented your relationship to ex

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Speaker 2: body spray was to say, oh, I asked him if

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Speaker 2: you ever used it, and he said no, but sometimes

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Speaker 2: I sprayed it on my balls. And I guess I

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Speaker 2: don't understand how the answer can be no and yes

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Speaker 2: at the same time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a fair question answer, Susie. I guess what

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Speaker 4: I meant is like I didn't use it as deodorant.

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Speaker 3: I serve used it as like cologne.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh uh huh.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I feel like at some point in

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Speaker 4: my teens someone told me or gave me the idea

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Speaker 4: or maybe it was from Max's marketing that like you

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Speaker 4: had to make sure that, like you had good smelling

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Speaker 4: stuff on your jump.

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Speaker 2: What you want to know privates.

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Speaker 3: And so you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I have some I have some questions. I have some

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Speaker 2: follow up questions, like any good journalists would, So did

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Speaker 2: you have a signature sense or did you just use

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Speaker 2: whatever it was available to great questions.

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Speaker 4: No, I didn't have a signature scent, but like I

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Speaker 4: did love to sort of like see what the like

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Speaker 4: the goofy flavors that they would have would be like

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Speaker 4: I kind of yeah, I guess I was very susceptible

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Speaker 4: to their branding. I remember there was one called like Conviction,

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Speaker 4: which I thought was pretty funny.

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Speaker 1: Mom oh there was or was it convict?

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Speaker 3: I think it was Conviction.

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Speaker 4: I don't think I remember seeing it and being like,

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Speaker 4: I don't think that people are taking this the way

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Speaker 4: that they think they're taking it.

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Speaker 2: So you liked it, ironically, is what you're trying to

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Speaker 2: tell us?

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Speaker 4: Well, I went through different phases I think as a team.

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Speaker 3: No, there was not a ton of irony involved.

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Speaker 4: It was more like, oh my god, like I'll meet

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Speaker 4: women if I sprayed my balls with them.

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Speaker 2: God. So so basically the motivation was the ladies are.

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Speaker 3: Going to love this, yeah, obviously.

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Speaker 2: And did a lady ever encounter your axe, drun or

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Speaker 2: have a reaction to you? I feel like I can't

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Speaker 2: be traumatized gentlemen never tell Yeah, thanks babe, Yeah that's fair,

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Speaker 2: that's really fair. You're right, it's inappropriate for me to ask.

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Speaker 2: I just am trying to imagine myself coming upon like

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Speaker 2: just like a cologne drenched private part.

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Speaker 3: But I mean, I I no comment.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Sam, what about like, who were the guys that

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Speaker 1: were wearing like, how would you describe like an axe guy?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I would describe them as thirteen years old?

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Speaker 2: So let me ask you something. Do you ever even

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Speaker 2: wear cologne as a as like a grown man?

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Speaker 3: Rarely?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it's interesting. I don't know if it's

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Speaker 2: cologne less popular now than when we were growing up,

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Speaker 2: or is it just.

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Speaker 1: The people we know when you're that age, you're like

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Speaker 1: experimenting with sense.

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Speaker 2: But I just mean, I don't know any grown men

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Speaker 2: who were like my boyfriend doesn't wear cologne. But I

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Speaker 2: wonder if in general cologne was like a more popular

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Speaker 2: eighties and nineties thing.

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Speaker 3: That's a great question.

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Speaker 4: I don't know anybody that wears cologne either, but like

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Speaker 4: I wore coloone in my twenties and maybe when I

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Speaker 4: was in my early thirties, I think maybe.

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Speaker 3: Just a trend right.

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Speaker 2: Well, and also, now you've landed your lady, so you

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Speaker 2: don't need to attract ladies.

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Speaker 3: It's so true.

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Speaker 1: That was great, babe, Thank.

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Speaker 3: You, thank you so much. Know there's an axe flavor

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Speaker 3: called leather and cookies.

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Speaker 2: No, no, But one of the things I'm really enjoying

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Speaker 2: about this conversation is that you keep referring to them

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Speaker 2: as flavors, not sense, because you can literally taste axe bodies.

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Speaker 1: In the studio and it's awful.

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Speaker 3: Guys, are never going to be allowed back in the studio.

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Speaker 2: It's possible, that's possible.

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Speaker 4: Thanks you, guys. It's been a pleasure. I hope I

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Speaker 4: did a good job on your podcast.

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Speaker 2: You did agree, Now bye bye.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: The funny thing is he keeps talking about being a teen,

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Speaker 1: but AX did not debut in the United States until

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Speaker 1: two thousand and two, so he would have been out

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Speaker 1: of higher He graduated in nineteen ninety nine, so actually

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Speaker 1: he was in college.

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Speaker 2: So you're like fact checking and you're saying that he

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Speaker 2: was a college are like, yeah, So, I think the

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Speaker 2: one thing you mentioned earlier that we haven't really explored

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Speaker 2: that I would like to go back to is what

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Speaker 2: is the kind of new acts branding like this sort

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Speaker 2: of regressive acts vote.

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Speaker 1: So when AX debuted Premiered whatever you call it, emerged

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Speaker 1: into the US market. They hired this ad agency, and

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Speaker 1: the ad agency basically came up with this idea of

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Speaker 1: you knowing all about sex, and they came up with

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Speaker 1: this branding called the Axe Effect. And the AX effect

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Speaker 1: was basically sprayed on yourself and then people are attracted

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Speaker 1: to you. So fast forward here we are. That feels

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Speaker 1: like not the right marketing for today's meed.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of like the necessarily toxic masculinity exactly.

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Speaker 1: And so Acts I think rightly understood or AX marketing

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Speaker 1: team rightly understood that they needed to change it up

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Speaker 1: a little bit. And so actually they've done I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're totally dragging them in this episode, but they've done

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Speaker 1: some good things too. They did like a big campaign

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Speaker 1: around getting vaccinated during the pandemic. They've like done some

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Speaker 1: partnerships with various nonprofit organizations, and they've actually done some

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Speaker 1: research too about men's attitudes towards sex and other things.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I want to say, in fairness to them,

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Speaker 2: like we're not really dragging them in that this was

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Speaker 2: an extremely successful business strategy. I mean, this is this

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Speaker 2: is a reflection of the time, right, Like This isn't

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Speaker 2: about acts. They didn't create toxic masculinity. They just took

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Speaker 2: advantage of a thing that existed, which is this idea

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Speaker 2: that you know, your primary goal as a man is

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Speaker 2: to like attract as many ladies as possible.

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Speaker 1: And once that is your brand, it's really hard to

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Speaker 1: shake it, which I think is what they found. So

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Speaker 1: around twenty seventy and they basically started thinking, like, look,

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Speaker 1: we got to attract gen Z. The brand is not

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Speaker 1: doing as well as it once was, it's not as popular,

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Speaker 1: it's become a bit of a punchline, and so they

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Speaker 1: tried to make things a little bit less heteronormative. They

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Speaker 1: came up with a new tagline called find Your Magic,

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Speaker 1: and instead of spray more, get more, the tagline became

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Speaker 1: attraction for all. And so, you know, like many brands,

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Speaker 1: they were trying to be inclusive. They were trying to

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Speaker 1: take into account that a much higher percentage of gen

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Speaker 1: Z does not identify as heterosexual, like all of these things.

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Speaker 1: But it's hard to change the perception of a brand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so baked in, Yeah, I mean, I can imagine that.

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Speaker 2: It's so hard. And there have been like a bunch

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Speaker 2: of headlines that haven't really helped.

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Speaker 1: Well, so I don't know if you remember, around the

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Speaker 1: January sixth riots, there were these photos that emerged of

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Speaker 1: a couple of empty cans of Axe body spray, like littered.

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Speaker 1: I did not know that on the ground, and so

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Speaker 1: it was like too perfect. It's like put these two

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Speaker 1: things together. Oh here you have the anarchy, the actual

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00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 1: name of a sense of these riots. So when that happened,

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Speaker 1: the images, you know, went viral. It was like it

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00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:36,919
Speaker 1: spawned every joke ever. There were many a lonely QAnon yes,

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00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,439
Speaker 1: that joke and an axe The company actually had to

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Speaker 1: put out an official response. They said that they would

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Speaker 1: quote rather be lonely than with the mob.

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Speaker 2: Oh interesting.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it was unclear if like the rioters

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Speaker 1: were using X body straight on themselves, if they were

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Speaker 1: using it as an explosive device. But like, these things

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00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 1: were kind of too perfect, and so then so I

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Speaker 1: remembered that, and then I started doing a little research

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Speaker 1: into other headlines and around AX and basically over the

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Speaker 1: last ten to twenty years, the only headlines about Acts

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Speaker 1: have been these like really crazy things that have occurred

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Speaker 1: with the product, such as setting a dumpster on fire

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Speaker 1: using axe which was what a man in West Virginia did,

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Speaker 1: or a man arrested in rural Pennsylvania for stealing only

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Speaker 1: ax body spray from the store. And it's like, that's

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Speaker 1: not an important headline. This is a petty crime. But

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Speaker 1: why are they making it an actual article? Well, because

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Speaker 1: everyone thinks as a living stock. And then this one

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Speaker 1: was one of my favorites. A couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: a school bus had to be evacuated and nine one

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Speaker 1: one was called over the smell of too much axe

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Speaker 1: body stray. This was in Florida. Obviously, I love that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, this should be the official scent of

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Speaker 2: Rohnda Santis' Florida. Amazing. I think we could just end

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Speaker 2: on that noteutly, ax body spray the official of ron

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Speaker 2: DeSantis's Florida.

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Speaker 1: SUSI, I think you've just come up with the political

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Speaker 1: tagline and the end of our episode.

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Speaker 2: Of rebranding for as Axlcenta Florida. This is in retrospect.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. Is there a cultural moment you can't

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Speaker 2: stop thinking about and want us to explore in a

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Speaker 2: future episode. Email us at inretropod at gmail dot com,

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00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,360
Speaker 2: or find us on Instagram at in Retropod.

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00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,439
Speaker 1: If you love this podcast, please rate and review us

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00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen. If you

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00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 1: hate it, you can post nasty comments on our Instagram,

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00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 1: which we may or may not delete.

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Speaker 2: You can also find us on Instagram at Jessica Bennett

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Speaker 2: and at Susie b NYC. Also check out Jessica's books

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Speaker 2: Feminist Fight Club and This Is eighteen.

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Speaker 1: In Retrospect is a production of iHeart Podcasts and the Media.

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Speaker 1: Lauren Hanson is our supervising producer. Derek Clements is our

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Speaker 1: engineer and sound designer. Sharon Attia is our researcher and

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Speaker 1: associate producer.

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Speaker 2: Our executive producer from the media is Cindy Levy. Our

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Speaker 2: executive producers from iHeart are Anna Stump and Katrina Norbel.

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Speaker 2: Our artwork is from Pentagram. Additional editing help from Mary

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Speaker 2: Doo and Mike Cosperelli, sound correction and mastering by Amanda

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Speaker 2: Rose Smith. We are your hosts Susie Bannacarum.

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Speaker 1: And Jessica Bennett. We're also executive producers. For even more,

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Speaker 1: check out in retropod dot com. See you next week.