WEBVTT - Killer Mom Trial: Lindsay Clancy’s First Words To Chaplain: “I’m So Glad My Children Are Safe” 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:05.280 Hey, that folks. It is Friday, August twenty first, and 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:10.120 it was another shortened day and the Lindsay Clancy triple 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:15.800 murder trial. But we learned a lot about Lindsey Clancy yesterday. 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:20.880 And one other note, the drama started before folks even 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:22.599 got into the court room and with that, welcome to 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:23.960 this episode of Amy and TJ. 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:24.440 Robes. 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:30.400 Drama outside did lead to some dramatic moments and delays inside. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:32.240 Yes, you mentioned a shortened day. 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:35.800 It began late and it ended early, But what happened 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.160 before and after the testimony are actually a huge part 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:42.240 of why yesterday was such a fascinating and interesting day 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:47.840 in court. And yes, we saw a jurors individually being 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:53.320 brought up to a sidebar, sworn in and answering questions 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:57.760 from the judge one by one. That delayed the start 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:01.360 of testimony by at least thirty mon Why were they 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:05.280 being brought up and questioned by the judge? Well, apparently 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:09.360 this is all because there was a massive silent rally 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:15.280 that was going on outside the courthouse and prosecutors were 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.600 very concerned and we would argue rightfully so that this 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.600 show of support, and we'll get into what was going 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:26.560 on outside the courtroom for Lindsay Clancy could have an 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:32.360 emotional reaction or could elicit some sort of emotional empathy 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:34.040 sympathy for Lindsay Clancy. 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:36.200 As those jurors walked into the Courtporo. 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.080 I mean the jurors, they've been wiping tears as they've 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:39.840 been listening to a lot of this, The same jurors 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:43.840 who've seen her cry, what did you say, hyperventilating almost 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.560 in the way she's been ventilating without a debt at times. 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:48.680 So there has been a lot of emotion. It was 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:52.560 and just here we go again, ropes. It's just some 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.120 kind of way emotion is playing into this trial every 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:57.400 single day in some manner. It was remarkable that it 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:01.280 played into it on the way in to the court yesterday. 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.720 Yes, yeah, about three hundred women all dressed in pink 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:06.960 with support for Lindsay Clancy. And again we'll get into 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:09.680 those details in a bit, what their intent was and 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:11.640 what they said to reporters outside. 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.000 But look, each of the jurors obviously. 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:18.640 Told the judge they could put that into a compartment 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.639 and not let it impact their ability to objectively listen 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.440 to witness testimony and take in the evidence, all of that. 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.840 But also then the jury was sent home before eleven 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:33.280 am because the attorneys and the judge decided to hold 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.240 their own conference to discuss possible jury instructions. 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.120 And that got really interesting as well. 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.040 Right, we say interesting jury instructions are some of the 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.800 some of these trials. They're so long and tedious and 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:51.360 confusing to the average listener. They're arguing over words and 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:55.040 word placement and prepositions and this kind of stuff. This 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.079 one is going to be a doozy ye to put 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:58.120 these instructions together. 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.880 It certainly is what the basically what the jury can consider, 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:03.440 what the jury cannot consider. 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:05.320 And we'll get into this too. 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.840 But the defense, this was interesting to me, was pushing 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.640 that the judge include in the jury instructions how to 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:19.280 consider intoxication when it comes to a criminal act. But yeah, 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.000 we only had one witness take the stand. And by 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.000 the way, it was a packed courtroom. One of the 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.880 reporters described it as the most packed they had seen it. 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.160 More than sixty people, everyone trying to get into this courtroom. 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.399 As I believe, it does seem like more and more 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:38.000 people are becoming more and more interested in this case. 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:43.000 What it means to have postpartum depression or in this case, psychosis, 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:46.360 listening to women's health issues, whether or not a mother 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.240 who murdered her three children should be helped. Responsible people 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.200 are really as we're seeing this testimony start to come 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.280 to a close, people are really getting interested in what 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:56.520 the outcome is going to be. 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.720 You know, we noticed this yesterday that some news outlets 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.600 that normally wouldn't necessarily be covering a story like this. 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.640 It's high up in their rundowns. Yes there is more. 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.000 This is what full third or fourth full week? 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:09.440 This is the I believe this is. 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.400 We're in the fourth week, and so yes, people are 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:16.200 taking notice. And that one witness that took the stand 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:21.600 on What's Today Friday on Thursday, you even said, Wow, 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:27.480 I am paying attention. This woman had an an energy 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:32.760 about her, an authenticity about her. A you sat up 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:34.680 to listen to her when she spoke. 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:38.159 Yeah, she had a manner of speaking. I'm not sure 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:39.080 how to describe it. 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:39.560 It was. 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.120 I don't know, it was soft, but it was pleasant. 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:48.120 It was it was angelic. It was therapeutic to someone. 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.080 It was almost like you were getting guidance from some 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:52.320 fairy godmother. 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:54.839 It was actually a really good way to put it. 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:57.880 She looked like a fairy godmother. But we're talking about 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:02.360 Sheila Kavanas. She is hospital chaplain, so that might actually 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:06.320 explain what we're describing. She was at Brigham and Women's Hospital, 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:09.839 she was the chaplain. She saw and spoke with Lindsay 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:14.280 Clancy more than two hundred times, Babe. She I would say, 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:16.760 based on all the witnesses we've seen take the stand 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.520 for either the prosecution or the defense, is the one 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:23.000 person who has seen and spoken with Lindsay Clancy more 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:24.520 than anyone else. 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:30.880 And you know she's not a doctor, Bros. I'm just 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:32.599 putting that together, as you say, because I'm thinking about 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:34.200 the other guy who met her sixty times, or the 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.599 other defense guy who's been on the stay in last couple. 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:37.599 Of days, forensic psychiatrists. 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.440 But the one who has spent the most time talking 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.360 to this lady happens to be a woman of faith 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:47.120 and not necessarily the doctor. I don't know what we 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:49.599 make of that. She can't diagnose her. She can say 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:51.480 what she said and how she came off, but she 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.920 can't do the medical part. So what does she How 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:56.120 does she help the defense here? 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:58.919 She I think she helped the defense significantly because she 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.960 spoke to Lindsay's stany of mind. She spoke to where 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.719 and that has been under assault by the prosecution in 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:10.520 terms of this callous, cold, calculated, controlling mom who wanted 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.640 to take her children with her no matter what, and 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.400 wouldn't let anyone else protect them other than her, And 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.880 that was what made her so evil and calculating in 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.320 killing her children. When you hear from Sheila Kavanaugh describing 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:26.080 a much different Lindsay Clancy, it goes a long way, 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.720 I think for jurors in terms of intent, motive, and 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:32.080 whether or not she was in her right mind. 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.279 Yeah, and a lot of what this lady right, she's 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.800 examining just a human being. She's looking at it through 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:42.760 a different lens. Rose and she there's no medical degree 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:44.440 that let her know a woman was in trouble. It 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:49.200 was her training. It's theological training that helped her see 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.560 a woman who was in need. And it was this 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.000 is not a woman who sat up there. It felt 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.520 like she was trying to help this side or that side, 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.000 but ropes. She'd sound like somebody who was just trying 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.560 to help Lindsay Clancy like authentically not get away with 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.839 a crime. What covers just she's here. She seemed like 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:08.400 a really impartial observer in the courtroom. 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.560 I agree, and that's why what she said carried so 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:13.920 much weight, And I thought what stood out to me 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.920 She talked about going in to see Lindsay in those 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:19.800 first few days and how Lindsay was intubated. She described 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.880 physically how she looked, how she was unable to speak 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.400 or communicate. That also went a long way just to 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:29.560 show just how injured Lindsay Clancy was. That several days 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:31.880 when she went to go see her, she couldn't speak 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.640 because she had tubes down her throat. But she said 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.440 the first time Lindsey Clancy could use her voice and spoke, 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.120 she said this to her, I'm so glad my children 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:46.080 are safe. That was incredibly impactful. 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.720 Yeah, But which way right? What is that an admission of? 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.920 What is that a confirmation of? What is that evidence of? 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:54.640 I don't know that. 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:56.800 She thought she was doing right by her kids. 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.920 In that moment, and then the prosecution dismisses that as 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:05.440 what right? That's what I mean, Robes, It's they're giving 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:10.040 you enough in a bigger picture that you cannot help, 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:13.120 but no robes that this lady was in trouble of 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:13.560 some kind. 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.680 To me, that speaks to her level of insanity, because 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.840 no woman would think her children were safe when she 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.400 killed them unless you have something really serious going on. 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.360 That is not something a mother says when her child 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.760 is dead. Now, we've heard mothers say after their child's 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.600 been murdered or had some horrible debt that they're glad 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.680 their child is in a better place or not suffering anymore. 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:40.560 This was very, very different. The other big moment is 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.520 when she described and testified to the fact that she 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:48.640 said that Lindsey told her that she heard a voice. 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.880 She said that voice told her if she did not 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:56.200 follow the command, neither she nor her children would be safe. 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.520 So that is a big moment. 0:08:58.559 --> 0:08:59.160 That is what the. 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.800 Absolutely wants the jurors to believe that Lindsay did what 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:09.439 she did because she was following a command and obviously 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:12.920 that was a hallucination. That voice didn't actually exist, which 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:16.440 means that Lindsey Clancy was in a state of psychosis 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:16.880 all right. 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.920 That part the prosecution was trying to jump on that 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.640 because she only told her afterwards, and only told her once, 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.559 and she hadn't heard it since is that she never 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:28.440 I guess the prosecutor is trying to get at she 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.760 wasn't going along this line of a voice in her 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:35.160 head until after the murder. She wasn't discussing it at all. Ah, 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.520 the chaplain didn't put in her notes. 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:42.040 That was the big, big point that the prosecution says 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.840 that okay, And then they went through all of her notes, 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.839 and she had detailed notes, and she said, you never 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:53.239 put once that Lindsay Clancy told you she heard a voice. 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.280 And the response from the chaplain was, I'm not there 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.559 to evaluate the patient. I'm there to bear witness to 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.960 their suffering. Her prosecution did make a little bit of 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.400 a It poked a hole in some of the chaplain's testimony, 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.480 saying you put quotes from Lindsay Clancy. On several other occasions, 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.680 you directly quoted her, You talked about positive observations you 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:15.160 made of her. 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:17.720 You never once put this in your notes. That that 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:19.520 worked a little bit, But I still. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:24.600 Didn't believe that the chaplain was lying when she said 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:27.120 Lindsay Clancy said what she said. I still think she 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.320 was such a credible witness. She was that I didn't 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:33.240 it didn't bother me too much that she didn't note 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:39.600 it in her written notes about her meetings with Lindsay Clancy. 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.040 As Margins might be small in a jury room, Where 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.600 does that trick? I think about it? I do ask 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:49.080 the question, why didn't she write that down? Why wasn't 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:51.240 that important enough for her to write down? It is 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:53.959 a detailed woman. I like this woman. I trust this woman, 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.559 she's legit. Why wasn't she write that down? 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.760 It might not at a juror like it's just a 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:02.320 it's like hmm, that it does? 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:03.800 It is? 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:08.160 It was absolutely worth the question, and her answer wasn't 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:09.720 really good enough. 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:12.360 Yeah, But then you know what I would go to 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.400 after that, Robes is in the jury room, I would 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:19.920 say this to my eleven other fellow jurors, say, well, actually, guys, 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.760 this lady is not a doctor. She doesn't know maybe 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:28.400 that that's a really important note to write down. 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:28.559 And say that. I'd be like, you know what, that's 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:29.000 a good point. 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.199 Yeah, I think yes, And in the deliberation room that 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:35.839 could absolutely be understood from that point of view. The 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.560 other thing I thought she said that was important for 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:42.880 the defense, She said. Lindsey talked and talks frequently about 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:47.160 her children, she loves them deeply, she carries immense grief. 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.640 And when she said that, the prosecution objected, the judge 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:55.480 overruled because they were like hearsay. But look, she got 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.520 her point across to jurors that this person that the 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:02.200 prosecution is trying to depict of someone who was laughing 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:07.880 and playing games and playing dominoes and feeling joyful and 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.920 seemed positive and upbeat on the anniversaries of the death 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.079 of her children, on the anniversaries of what would be 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:15.400 the birthdays of her children. 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:16.680 This flew in the face of that. 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.200 Hearing a chaplain say she talks frequently, she loves them deeply, 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.040 she carries a men's grief and roabes. 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:28.120 This is the lady. If the prosecution wants to challenge, 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.719 you can't tell me that you're experts that you put 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.400 up there who spent twenty minutes with her, and this 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.480 woman spent two hundred two hundred visits. 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:39.200 Isn't she more. 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:43.120 Expertly aware of where this woman's head is than anybody else, 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.079 even though she's not a doctor. That is going to 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.440 be tough to discredit this woman who has spent more 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:49.960 time you want me to believe the person that's been 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.839 out of college for a month, that only met her 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.480 via FaceTime. Is that what you're telling me, prosecutors, that's 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:56.960 a challenge. 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:58.200 I agree, I agree. 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.160 And so once Kavanaugh, she like Kavanaugh, left the stand, 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:05.480 the jury was sent home. I mean they actually were 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:11.079 there for about an hour yesterday and then they were 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:15.800 sent home. But what happened next was this preliminary charge conference, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.240 that's what it's called. But they're discussing what the jury 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.320 is going to be hearing in the judge's instructions to 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:26.880 them when they begin deliberations. And the prosecutors are very 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.480 much concerned about this notion that the juror could be 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:37.360 instructed about what intoxication means to criminal responsibility, and so 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.000 they said this to the judge. From our perspective, there 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:44.080 has been no evidence of intoxication by drugs or alcohol 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.520 during the killings. And that's interesting because we've seen them 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.120 with each of these witnesses try to say, well, she 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.400 didn't take all the pills. There were plenty of pills 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.200 left in the pill bottles. There were more pills in 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.200 the pill bottles than there should have been based on 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.040 her prescription dose, so meaning not only was she not 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.880 over medicated, she was actually potentially undermedicated. And now we 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.559 understand why they don't want the defense to be able 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:12.200 to say that the drugs were part of the reason 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.640 why she ended up killing her children. 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:16.800 I can't and this is what I've said. Off the 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:22.320 top words that go in jury instructions explaining intoxication and 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.800 the application of that when it comes to criminality. Wow, 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.360 I mean just wow. And the judge, don't they always 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.000 they have to read these instructions word for word. They're 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:33.560 going to get the They still get them when they 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:34.440 go back there, do they? 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:36.480 Uh, Yes, they get them, and they can refer back 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:38.760 to them. And that's why you'll see, like in these 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.240 trials sometimes they'll send the jury home early. They need 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.880 days and days and days of meeting out what the 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:46.240 jury instructions will be. 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.200 And in this case, the defense pushed back, he said. 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:55.160 Kevin Reddington said, this is clearly an involuntary intoxication defense. 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:57.080 So that was the first time we heard that. We've 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:02.400 heard postpartum psychosis defense. But in this insanity defense, they 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.920 also want to bring up this notion of involuntary intoxication, 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.560 and that was pretty interesting. They said the over prescription 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:16.200 of drugs directly impacted Lindsey Clancy's actions that day, so 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.320 that will be fascinating the judges considering we'll decide later, 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:21.600 but when we come back, we're going to tell you 0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:25.680 about that demonstration that was going on outside the courthouse 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:31.360 and why it mattered so much to the prosecution, and 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.200 welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ. It was a 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.240 short but powerful day once again in court, but it 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:49.160 began outside of the courthouse. Three hundred or so women 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.960 gathered that it was a big showing. If you see 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.280 the pictures there were, it was a mass of pink 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.560 And normally I would say, oh wow, there's a breast 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:02.280 cancer survivors reunion going on, just happens to be outside 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.840 of the courthouse. But no, these women, they weren't protesting, 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.240 they weren't wearing signs. It was notably what was called 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:11.760 a silent rally, but many of the women had t 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:17.560 shirts that had phrases like believe she needed help, peace 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.960 for Lindsey. So they didn't speak, but they were speaking. 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:25.440 That's going to be a big part of this conversation 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:29.440 moving forward. Robes and a lot of people and I 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.600 know you've seen it, are just spouting off online and 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.920 calling anybody who would dare not even support her but 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:39.160 be willing to listen to what might have been wrong 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.480 with her. A lot of people think this woman strangle 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:47.440 three kids, burn her and that's it. That is really 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.120 all the debate seems to be online. That group is 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.040 just saying she deserves to burn in hell, don't want 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.360 to hear anything else that's hurting. I guess robes in 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.200 our understanding. I don't know why somebody's just not willing 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:05.360 to listen to what's happening in this debate versus just automatic. 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.280 These folks aren't listening and who are just saying burn 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:08.560 and hell? 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.240 Oh yeah, they're like she looked her children in the 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:14.399 eyes while she was strangling them. There was even this 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.639 notion by prosecutors that she did. Oh, this was a 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.919 gross part of yesterday. I didn't even want to hear this, 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:22.879 but the prosecutor brought up this is when we had 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:25.520 she like Kavanaugh, on the stand. Did you know that 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:28.560 You know, they introduce evidence by asking someone if they 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.600 knew something, even though they almost certainly didn't, but just 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.280 to get the jury to hear and to enter this testimony, 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.840 But the prosecutor said, did you know that Lindsay Clancy 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:43.119 was working out using exercise bands after the killings? That 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:48.360 was just a really ugh moment for me listening to okay. 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:53.560 And unbiased, just real reason for why really, from a 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.600 legal standpoint, why was that necessary? Why was that effect 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:57.840 of what was she trying to get at? 0:17:58.080 --> 0:17:59.159 Emotional manipulation? 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.640 But she was so callous that she could use a 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:06.679 murder weapon to stay fit while she's in a mental hospital, 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.919 after she used that same exact exercise band or a 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.760 version of it to murder her children, that how could 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.840 she ever even pick up an exercise band again? 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:18.239 I don't know. 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:19.000 That was tough. 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.919 That adds to another a line of moments sometimes for 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.880 the prosecutions to where I'm just as a juror, I mean, 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:27.639 I don't know how they're taking it, but as I 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:29.800 sit there, well, come on, do we really have to? 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:34.000 It just seemed petty. It seemed it seems like she 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:37.040 was trying to. It was another one of those roles. 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.760 We keep saying what she say, huhuh, right, she'll say 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.880 something to say, so yours seriously, like for real, she's 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:46.439 using these things that wait, you didn't know sarcasm. 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.359 Sarcasm and you know what, So I take away from 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:52.600 the fact that a woman who strangled and killed her 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:56.560 children using exercise bands, how that same woman could pick. 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.320 Up an exercise band and work out with it. 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:01.879 To me, would only a mentally ill person would be 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.760 able to do that, because actually, even if you were 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:08.280 cruelly killing your kids, if you're telling me that that 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:12.040 didn't impact her emotionally, then that tells me her she 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:14.480 is out of her mind. 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.160 Or she is literally Satan himself. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.960 Because those are your only two options, and that might 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.480 be why we see such a polarizing reaction from folks, 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:27.199 because yeah, either she is that is true. Either she 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:33.040 is the most evil, monstrous human being that could ever exist, 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.800 like Satan like, or she was mentally ill. 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:39.959 I don't think it could be anywhere in between. So 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:41.959 that's why you've got these two factions. 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.600 The prosecutors are telling you there is an in between, Yes, 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.720 because she's just a calculated killer. There can be something else, 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:51.199 There is another option here, Robes. All is confusion you have. 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.760 You can't understand why this woman would do it. We 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:56.919 have an answer for you. She's just a bad person 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.760 who was a controlling mother and it was too much 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.200 for her, and she decided to end it all by 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.000 killing her kids and then faking a suicide attempt by 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:10.560 jumping onto rock hard ice from two stories up. That's 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:11.879 how you can. 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.280 Understand it wrote just not really working. 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:18.679 Also, I don't know if prosecutors saw this, and maybe 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:23.320 perhaps this prompted them having the judge pull the jurors 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:27.120 one by one to see if the silent rally outside 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:29.679 had impacted them in any way as they were walking 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.720 into the courthouse. But as folks and players from the 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:36.639 courthouse were walking in, guests who got a huge round 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:41.480 of applause from these otherwise silent protesters. Defense attorney Kevin 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:45.320 Reddington when he walked it, people were they were They 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:49.080 all broke into applause for defending a woman who they 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.359 believe needs to be defended, because the whole point of 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:56.040 this rally was to raise awareness about how the mental 0:20:56.040 --> 0:21:00.280 health system and the legal system treats women who are 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.360 suffering from postpartum depression. 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:05.880 You know, even if this case, however it turns out, 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:09.160 we still should take an examination of how the legal 0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.240 system and how we all society treats women with the postpartum. 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.879 That's worthy no matter what the outcome of this trial is. 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:16.240 Ah. 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:18.720 Yes, but it is expected to be a full day. 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:22.760 They're claiming a full day of testimony. And we also 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.000 got word that this thing may be headed to the 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:28.440 jury soon, that we may be seeing closing arguments as 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.680 soon as early next week. But we'll probably have more 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.720 information on the timing of it all after today's testimony. 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:36.880 We will be watching. 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:39.000