WEBVTT - Border Kindness and Mutual Aid Along the Border 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:08.680 Hi everyone. It's just me James today and I'm joined 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:13.399 today by James Cordero and Jacqueline Ariano. They're both from 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:17.520 Border Kindness, which is a group that does border eight. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.320 Do you feel like water drops and support to keep 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.560 people alive as they're making their journey across the desert 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.720 here in San Diego? Is that a fair characterization of 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:28.320 what you guys do? 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:33.640 Yeah, we do work all across the border in California. 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:36.960 Currently the of US, we're based out of San Diego. 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.599 What we do of our water drops in eastern San 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.760 Diego County and Imperial County. Yeah. 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.920 Yeah. The wization is based primarily in Mihigli, Baja, California, 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:52.000 on the Mexico side, and that's where it was founded. Okay, 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.440 corresponds to the arrival of the migrant caravans in twenty eighteen. 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.880 We've personally been doing drops since twenty sixteen, but we 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.200 brought the program over Border Kindness a little over a 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.600 year ago and we operate programs on both sides of 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.600 the border. Primarily James and I are involved with water Drop, 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.720 but we also as an organization have a school on 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.759 the Mexico side. We have operated in a pro bono 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:18.679 clinic on the Mexican side, and currently we're providing direct 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:22.800 aid with the families of migrant farm workers in Imperial 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:24.280 and Riverside Counties. 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:26.840 Nice. Yeah, that's a lot of very important things that 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.760 you don't get enough money or attention. So sure, you 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:33.680 said you started about a year ago, but you've been 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:38.360 doing the border drops for what's that seven sometime seven years? Yeah, 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:44.080 since twenty sixteen, And I wonder if we could start 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.920 by and we can get in some of the details later. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:51.280 But I've been reporting on the border for that long 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:54.480 and there certainly have been notable changes, And I wonder 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.640 what changes you've seen, Like we go back to like 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.400 pre twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, like that was for the 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:04.720 whole wall Shenanigans and so like, do you guys want 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:08.160 to describe what changes you've seen in patterns of migration 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:13.600 and like I guess how safe that journey is or isn't, 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:14.680 and how that's changed. 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:23.120 Well as far as patterns, I think it's definitely increased, 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:30.079 definitely impressed by the as far as seeing the amounts 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:36.120 of supplies being used, the traces of you know, migrants 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:40.640 crossing through in the desert, and the mountains, seeing the 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:46.919 amount of border patrol apprehensions and interactions with people that cross, 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:54.160 and the overall militarization of the border. Yeah. 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.000 Yeah, And I think like as far, one of the 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.560 biggest changes that we've seen on the border overall, and 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:02.040 that has reflected in the water Drop as well, is 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.840 a change in the demographics of people that are coming through. 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.720 Even as recently as when we started in twenty sixteen, 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:14.080 there were much more of like the trend that was 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.240 generally kind of like stereotypically the case of like who 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.600 was crossing, which was men of origin of working age 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.799 crossing to work and send send money back to their families. 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:29.040 That's obviously still a large part of who is coming through, 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:35.320 but in the most recent three to five years especially, 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.960 the demographics are changing not just by country of origin 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.320 to include all over the world and reflecting like this 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:47.840 global migration crisis that's going on, but also the reasons 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.880 and like the desperation is changing. So now it's not 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:56.840 just like economic migration. There is asylum seekers, refugees, and 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:00.520 it is just changing in tone of like why they're 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:02.480 migrating and in what ways they're migrating. 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:07.000 Yeah, yeah, definitely I've noticed that, and like as the 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.200 climate continues to change, right, like more and more people 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:11.120 come from those countries and you've seen that too, that 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:16.120 most heavily impacted by climate change. Yeah, yeah, and that 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.159 makes a journey as it gets harder and harder in 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.800 the desert, like that makes a journey more and more perilous. 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:24.080 I guess they've come from farther too, and they're at 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.760 least sometimes like not at all familiar with the weather, 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.160 with the terrain, what they're up against with like how 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.640 you have to move in border towns. If you're not 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:36.520 from a border town, you don't really know how to 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.279 move and who to trust or more importantly, who not 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:39.760 to trust. 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.480 Yes, yeah, and the people there's. 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.960 A lot of pitfalls to just arriving at the border, 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:49.479 even from like internal migration, like within Mexico. People arrive 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:51.440 to the border and don't really know how to operate 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.760 like the day to day there, and it's really made 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.880 an already incredibly dangerous situation, like just just totally a peral. 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:05.159 As more people have migrated from different countries around the world, 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.520 you're also seeing people who have been on that journey 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.559 just to get to the United States line for longer 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:14.719 amounts of time that you know, instead of maybe just 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.040 weeks or a month, you're talking about months on months 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.559 that people have been traveling you know, by foot, by train, 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.840 by bus, you know, sometimes by plane. However they can 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:31.279 and we've seen, you know, we've seen like invoices for 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:35.320 like hotel stays that people traveling from Turkey came and 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.760 they stayed like in tang Kun for like a month. 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:43.960 So like I mean, people are gone from their from 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:47.120 their homelands. You know, longer amounts of time now that 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.240 you know, isn't a comfortable thing. So it's not like 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:53.800 you can relax and not like you can you know, 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:56.560 rest and you know mentally and physically everything like that. 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:00.679 So it's definitely making that part harder for people crossing. 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.160 Yeah, for sure, Like I'm seeing more and more migrants 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:08.320 from from Africa and like they are very much like 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.520 it's the community for them is hard to find sometimes, 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:15.560 like you know that, like there are different spaces for them, 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.880 and like they they end up in like distinct spaces 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.800 from other Like migrant too are coming from other areas, 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:23.400 and I know it can be very perilous for them, 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.080 Like you say, just just moving around border towns and 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:31.479 navigating the pitfalls of that. Yeah, it's it's becoming like 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:33.320 a more and more difficult and I guess kind of 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:37.359 complicated issue. But I think what's not particularly complicated is that, like, 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:39.479 no one should have to walk across the desert without water, 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.320 right like that, it's pretty basic. So maybe we could 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.560 go through what a water drop is, and like what 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:49.440 just if we could walk through, like you know, how 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.240 far you guys walk, what you're leaving at there, what 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:54.360 you find that people take, what you find that they 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:58.080 need in their journeys. And you were talking about the receipts. 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:00.480 I found tons of those and plane tickets and stuff 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.640 like the things that you find that help you understand 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:09.880 how better to help people. I guess. 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.920 You want to talk about like how far the drops 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:14.440 are generally and all of that. 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:18.240 Yeah, so right now, it just depends on the season, 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:23.480 the weather, you know, the length of the drops we hike. 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.320 You know, a lot of our drops. We also utilize 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.000 four x fours to get us closer to areas to 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.320 start our hikes, so we don't have to walk even 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.760 more miles. That helps us out and you know, being 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.560 able to carry more supplies, you know, with less walking 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:42.160 in some areas. But when it's cooler times and the 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.480 temperatures are you know, below eighty degrees, you know we 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.640 can hike you know anywhere up to I think the 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:54.640 max that we did was like just about twenty. But 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.760 on the average, you know, the cool weather hikes will 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:03.000 do you know, know, right around ten miles or so. 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:06.520 And then when it gets hot and the desert gets 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:08.440 really hot out there, you know, like over one hundred 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.560 and ten degrees on a constant basis and starting to 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.000 get over one hundred and twenty degrees, you know, we 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:18.680 can maybe do about five miles by foot. We've kind 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:22.880 of ran a trial and air this season as far 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:25.800 as trying to push further to see how far we 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.880 can go, and we attempted seven miles and that I 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.280 mean we all were gassed right around the five mile mark. 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.560 So like we have to you know, set limits because 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.800 not only is the distance, but the time spent underneath 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:43.400 the sun without shade, and that exposure is you know 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:46.520 what drives the internal body temperature up and everything like that. 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:47.800 And if you don't have a chance to cool down, 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.120 that's when your body starts to wear out. You get 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:52.200 heat exhaustion, and you know, we want to avoid heat 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.480 stroke at all costs, and we're trying to, you know, 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.040 make sure everyone's safety is accounted for. So we have 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:58.720 to kind of cap that in the in the summertime 0:08:58.800 --> 0:08:59.680 to like five miles. 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:00.320 Yeah. 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.400 Yeah, we have to definitely make pushes in the winter 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.080 to stockpile the areas that are just simply not accessible 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:10.600 in the summer months. And the strategic and like paying 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.400 attention to what are entry points and can we hit 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.440 those entry points or exit points. So maybe we can't 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:22.040 really access a route throughout its entirety, but we can 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:27.120 hit certain points of it more safely as a team 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:31.680 during these like incredibly hot months. But we leave supplies 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.960 of water, food, and protective clothing, and the protective clothing 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.679 varies depending on season. So I mean a lot of 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.320 people don't really take into consideration how cold it gets 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.080 in these areas. It gets wall below freezing in the 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.400 winter in the mountains of Ea San Diego County, it snows. 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:51.600 You know, some drops have gotten snowed out. We haven't 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:55.600 been able to complete them because of the snow, and 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.240 so the protective clothing varies in the summer. It's things 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:04.640 like bendan as, cooling towels, hats, socks we leave throughout 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:13.480 the year, people's footwear not being appropriate almost almost always. Yeah, 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.320 blister can be a deacent sentence out there. So if 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.880 you get a blister and you're not able to keep 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:20.880 up with your group, there's a really good chance that 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.760 you're going to get left. So something like having dry 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.680 socks to change into can very well save somebody's life. 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.560 So we leave socks throughout the year, pop top cans 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:31.079 of food and of course water. 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:39.920 In the wintertime, we leave sweatshirts, beanies like mittens, gloves, scarves, jackets, 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:46.160 sometimes puffy jackets, sometimes blankets, you know, stuff to keep 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.960 people warm when the temperatures you know, can be freezing 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.320 for you know, most of the day. You know, in 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.960 those harsh months of like January February, where eastern Sandewo 0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:00.600 County gets the like the winter storms, the freezing cold, 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.160 you know, when roads get shut down, we can't even access. So, 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:08.120 as Jacqueline mentioned, you know, when it is cooler, we 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.160 try to go as much as we can, as far 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.280 as we can, to stockpile as much as possible for 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.480 when the weather prohibits us from doing so. 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.520 Otherwise, Yeah, and just give people a sense of like 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.840 the temperature swings, like I've been in the mountains down 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.320 by the border at like twenty degrees fahrenheit, which is 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:31.559 like minus ten ish celsius I think, And yeah, also 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:33.839 at one hundred and twenty which is like almost fifty 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.800 degrees celsius, and so you can they didn't swing that 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.199 much in one day, but there are days when it's 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:42.120 above forty degrees celsius. And also the low freezing in 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:46.880 the same day, like it's it can be really Yeah, 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.240 it's a perilous place. That's why people don't live there 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.480 as a rule, Like it's not a place that's kind 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:56.440 to people. So I wonder like a lot of people, 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.200 I know, we did a series on title forty two, 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:01.400 spoke to a lot of people, and a lot of 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:03.319 people reached out and they like they want to help, 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.959 and I understand that the border. I think for a 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:10.040 lot of people it is like I think reporting on 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.199 the borders as a rule is not great, like that 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:15.719 we tend to see migrants as numbers and not as 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.400 people a lot when when people report on the border, right, 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.760 and that that's kind of it happens with with more 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.000 liberal outlets as well as more right wing outlets. But 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:29.600 I wonder, like, a how people who aren't in town, Like, 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:31.120 if you're not in if you don't live in the 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.840 border lands, right, it's so you live in the middle 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.880 of America, Like, how can they help? What can they 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.000 do to kind of support the process that you're doing 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:41.880 making this horrible thing a little kind. 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:48.760 Of We have on all of our social media and 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.200 as well as on our website ways that people can help. 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:57.600 We have wish lists for items if people help want 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.680 to contribute in that way, and that's literally like contributing 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:05.480 the items that we leave. We also have donation links, 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.480 so if people want to help financially, that goes a 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:13.920 huge way in order to facilitate everything that we do. 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:20.040 It's i mean, gas is incredibly expensive. The supplies that 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:21.880 we don't get donated by a wish list have to 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.640 be purchased, that sort of thing. So providing material aid 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.319 is one way of contributing. And then aside from that, 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:34.400 I think just following along with this work and sharing 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.000 it and changing the conversation because, like as you said, 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:42.679 reporting on the border can be really tricky. People tend 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.440 to not just utilize migrants, but utilize the border as 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.600 a region in order to have talking points for either 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.400 like media outlets or campaigns or that sort of thing, 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.200 and the border gets treated as sort of like its 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:59.400 own foreign area that's not related to either country, like 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:03.400 nobody wants to responsibility for it. And you know, residents 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:05.439 of the United States also are complicit in that. And 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.120 because they don't really they just talk about the border. 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.320 They don't say, like, this is something that's happening in 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:15.440 my country. So I think sharing and discussing and becoming 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.080 informed of what's going on, and also feeling like that 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:22.040 kinship and ownership of like, hey, this is happening. I 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:24.360 mean for people, it doesn't have to be as far 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:25.520 as like the middle of the country. A lot of 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.320 people in San Diego don't et really engage in. 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.120 Yeah, they don't really bother. 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:31.440 You know, it feels like so far away, even though 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:36.000 it's like twenty minutes away. Meanwhile, people are dropping dead 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:40.000 so close to where people live, and they choose to 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:45.360 turn a blind eye. So I think kind of demystifying 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.240 that for ourselves and sharing in that it goes a 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:49.120 long way as well. 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.720 Yeah, definitely, I think that's that's very true. It's always 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:57.400 amazing to me, Like how twenty eighteen or the other 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:58.960 big one I guess would be the end of Title 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.080 forty two, which was here in May, Like people will 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:04.760 become more aware of what's happening and turn up and 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.480 like it's so very radicalizing for other people in a 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.240 positive way, like get engaged them in a way they 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:15.040 haven't been engaged before. But it's I know, it's like 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:18.040 it shouldn't be, like we shouldn't be something we ever 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.360 get used to. How like cruel our border infrastructure is 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.360 and what it does for us, but people are just 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:29.600 blown away every time. Absolutely, Yeah, but I think you're right, 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.960 like witnessing it is very important, even if you know 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.240 you can't done it financially, if you can't get down here. 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:38.320 Yeah, definitely just share stuff that you know, if you 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.800 know our organization posts something on social media, you know, 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.360 I mean, it has to be taken out as the 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:46.680 truth because we're out there firsthand. We're the ones on 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:51.760 the ground seeing reporting back, and by sharing that, you 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:55.120 get people you know in different parts of the country 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.640 or even you know, different parts of the world seeing 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:02.120 like the realities of the US Mexico border. Because you know, 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.880 most people in the United States don't know. If they 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.880 don't don't see it, they'll live near it. So that's 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:15.040 you know, something that most people rely on the media 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.080 and what they see on the nightly news. And you 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:22.600 know even that, you know, the big media outlets don't 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:28.800 take the most realistic or don't share the most realistic 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.720 parts of the border, you know, only to you know, 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:37.480 cater to their you know, their sponsors, or cater to 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.840 their crowds, and so a lot of people will get 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.560 like the headlines, but they don't get the real deal, 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.680 like you know, what's going on down the border, and 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.760 so sharing is is a big part of you know, 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:54.640 how the word spreads about the work that we do 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:56.160 in other organizations as well. 0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:08.560 Yeah, I think that's very very bad age. It was 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.600 interesting to me recently. I didn't if you guys saw this, 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:16.280 but like the floating border barrier in Texas, like very 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.360 like this week, people have been reporting that it has 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.760 the blades on it, which it does, and that's fucked up, 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.560 like they shouldn't. It's horrible, but like it was kind 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.040 of illiterative that I guess none of the are that 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.320 none of the national outlets had someone who'd seen it, 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.080 because the blades have been there for months where the 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.800 prototype sat there they were in the twenty twenty solicitation 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:39.320 to like it just seemed odd to me that someone 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.920 had to tweet a video for them to like understand 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.000 because like, obviously no one had walked up to it 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.879 and checked it out, which I don't know. I think 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.200 it's hard to do border reporting in New York personally, 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:54.679 But yes, you're you're interested in the northern border. So 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:57.600 I wanted to ask about Title forty two because I 0:17:57.600 --> 0:17:59.880 think our listeners are pretty well informed on like what 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:04.239 that was and what happened before and after that. So 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:08.040 did you guys notice when that came into effect? Just 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.960 to recap, I guess for people, Title forty two allowed 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:16.119 border patrol to bounce people straight back south without processing 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:20.040 them and in nearly all cases without hearing that their 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.719 claims were asylum if they had, and then those people 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.320 were sometimes laterally translated across the border to a border 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:29.520 town where they may not have had contacts or family 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:33.560 or any resources, and it often resulted in those people 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:35.800 finding themselves in an even more difficult situation than they 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.320 already were, or trying to cross in more difficult and 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:42.760 dangerous places to avoid that. So, did you guys notice 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.920 any changes like around and that came in what March 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.080 of twenty twenty as soon as they could, as soon 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:57.160 as they found an excuse in COVID. 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:59.480 Not so much from what we see because we don't 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:04.480 come cross people too often face to face. Did notice 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:11.000 that once the policy was put into place, meaning title 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.080 forty two, and you know, with the pandemic starting, we 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:18.879 did notice a big uptick on the amount of people 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:24.159 coming through. We've seen you know before that you know, 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:26.439 just a handful of people maybe like that. We'd come 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.800 across a lot of times, those people crossing at nighttime 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:32.760 and it wasn't something that we came across much. But 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.680 after that went into effect in twenty twenty, we started 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.000 running into a lot more people. We started seeing people 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:44.720 that knew, you know, somewhat of you know, the policy, 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:49.320 and that people would try multiple times every day to 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.760 you know, cross through, and if they got apprehended and 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.600 got you know, taken into Mexico, they tried again that 0:19:55.640 --> 0:20:00.080 same day. And so we noticed a lot more of 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:04.280 our supplies being used, a lot more foot traffic, and 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.480 a lot more you know interactions with us. We started 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.320 seeing a lot more interactions with you know, board patrol 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.879 and people crossing through. And so when the policy was 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:19.600 coming to an end, the only thing that we really 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:24.640 saw increase was the amount of people trying to get 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:30.280 in before you know, quote unquote got closed off, you know, 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.800 before like the bands would go into effect, and you know, 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:36.960 like the no you know, you can re enter for 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:38.600 a you know a certain amount of years and all 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:41.959 that kind of stuff. So like the camp in Hkomba, 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.119 you know, you see you know, thousands of people showing 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:53.840 up as that you know stopped, as Top forty two stopped. 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:59.720 We really can't notice too much yet that less people 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:05.440 are crossing through compared to the beginning the middle of 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:09.800 the policy. Our supplies are still being used at a 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:14.040 high rate. Still see a fair amount of traffic come through, 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.120 you know, these these corridors and everything like that. So 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:24.159 it's kind of hard on our end. But you know, 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:31.520 we also know that people who do cross not at 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:35.600 a port of entry by foot, whether it's over a fence, 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:37.920 whether it's around a fence, whether it's through the desert, 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:41.359 over the hills. We know that people are still being 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:52.760 apprehended processed and released with their asylum claims. So it's hard, 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:55.120 as you know, on the board to know exactly what's 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:59.440 going on because a policy can say one thing, yeah, 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:03.680 it doesn't matter exactly, like the residential administration can say 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:08.200 one thing, the DHS can say one thing, and completely 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:15.040 different is happening, you know right right there. I don't know. 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:17.240 I mean, I can't really say honestly how much it's 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:19.480 it's changed from our perspective. 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:22.520 I think when these things happen, like it's always really 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:25.240 difficult because like like I think the three of us 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.240 are aware of there's the things that are put in place, 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:31.280 and that's how they're going to be applied in theory, 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:33.359 and then those of us that have been doing this 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:36.320 work can anticipate how it's going to have an impact 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:37.040 in practice. 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:38.280 So like. 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.399 The things that are occurring now in order to so 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:48.560 called like curb the influx of people like using an 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:53.680 app or having like certain things, like all of these 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:57.520 things like we know and we don't have like any 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:01.119 faith that they were put in in good faith and 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:06.520 we know like that we can anticipate, Okay, you're going 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:09.480 to be banned if you don't go in through these 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:14.520 like really ridiculously inaccessible means, and that that word is 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:16.480 going to get around that people are going to freak out, 0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:18.879 they're not going to bother, and they're going to hit 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:21.160 the desert. And that's what we're seeing. Whether we can 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:24.280 actually like attribute it directly to like these policy changes, 0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:26.800 what I think we can attribute it more directly to 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:31.400 is like one, global migration, regardless of policy, is increasing 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:35.159 all over the world, and that desperation doesn't like really 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:39.800 wait for any kind of policy change. Two is like 0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:43.439 the misinformation and sort of like chatter that people are 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:47.840 hearing about like this policy is changing, Oh I heard that, 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:49.840 Like if you don't use this app, they're going to 0:23:49.880 --> 0:23:52.000 put you in jail. And like just like literally these 0:23:52.040 --> 0:23:55.640 things that we're hearing on the border that is funneling 0:23:55.640 --> 0:23:58.679 people directly into the desert because they want to avoid 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:01.200 any kind of interaction with border patrol, even if they 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:05.639