1
00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,680
Speaker 1: Hi everyone. It's just me James today and I'm joined

2
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:13,399
Speaker 1: today by James Cordero and Jacqueline Ariano. They're both from

3
00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,520
Speaker 1: Border Kindness, which is a group that does border eight.

4
00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,320
Speaker 1: Do you feel like water drops and support to keep

5
00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,560
Speaker 1: people alive as they're making their journey across the desert

6
00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,720
Speaker 1: here in San Diego? Is that a fair characterization of

7
00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:28,320
Speaker 1: what you guys do?

8
00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do work all across the border in California.

9
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,960
Speaker 2: Currently the of US, we're based out of San Diego.

10
00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,599
Speaker 2: What we do of our water drops in eastern San

11
00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,760
Speaker 2: Diego County and Imperial County. Yeah.

12
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. The wization is based primarily in Mihigli, Baja, California,

13
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,000
Speaker 3: on the Mexico side, and that's where it was founded. Okay,

14
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,440
Speaker 3: corresponds to the arrival of the migrant caravans in twenty eighteen.

15
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,880
Speaker 3: We've personally been doing drops since twenty sixteen, but we

16
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,200
Speaker 3: brought the program over Border Kindness a little over a

17
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,600
Speaker 3: year ago and we operate programs on both sides of

18
00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,600
Speaker 3: the border. Primarily James and I are involved with water Drop,

19
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,720
Speaker 3: but we also as an organization have a school on

20
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,759
Speaker 3: the Mexico side. We have operated in a pro bono

21
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,679
Speaker 3: clinic on the Mexican side, and currently we're providing direct

22
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,800
Speaker 3: aid with the families of migrant farm workers in Imperial

23
00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:24,280
Speaker 3: and Riverside Counties.

24
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,840
Speaker 1: Nice. Yeah, that's a lot of very important things that

25
00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,760
Speaker 1: you don't get enough money or attention. So sure, you

26
00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,680
Speaker 1: said you started about a year ago, but you've been

27
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,360
Speaker 1: doing the border drops for what's that seven sometime seven years? Yeah,

28
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:44,080
Speaker 1: since twenty sixteen, And I wonder if we could start

29
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,920
Speaker 1: by and we can get in some of the details later.

30
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,280
Speaker 1: But I've been reporting on the border for that long

31
00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,480
Speaker 1: and there certainly have been notable changes, And I wonder

32
00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,640
Speaker 1: what changes you've seen, Like we go back to like

33
00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,400
Speaker 1: pre twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, like that was for the

34
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,720
Speaker 1: whole wall Shenanigans and so like, do you guys want

35
00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 1: to describe what changes you've seen in patterns of migration

36
00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:13,600
Speaker 1: and like I guess how safe that journey is or isn't,

37
00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:14,680
Speaker 1: and how that's changed.

38
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 2: Well as far as patterns, I think it's definitely increased,

39
00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:30,079
Speaker 2: definitely impressed by the as far as seeing the amounts

40
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:36,120
Speaker 2: of supplies being used, the traces of you know, migrants

41
00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,640
Speaker 2: crossing through in the desert, and the mountains, seeing the

42
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:46,919
Speaker 2: amount of border patrol apprehensions and interactions with people that cross,

43
00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:54,160
Speaker 2: and the overall militarization of the border. Yeah.

44
00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think like as far, one of the

45
00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,560
Speaker 3: biggest changes that we've seen on the border overall, and

46
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,040
Speaker 3: that has reflected in the water Drop as well, is

47
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,840
Speaker 3: a change in the demographics of people that are coming through.

48
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,720
Speaker 3: Even as recently as when we started in twenty sixteen,

49
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:14,080
Speaker 3: there were much more of like the trend that was

50
00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,240
Speaker 3: generally kind of like stereotypically the case of like who

51
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,600
Speaker 3: was crossing, which was men of origin of working age

52
00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:23,799
Speaker 3: crossing to work and send send money back to their families.

53
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,040
Speaker 3: That's obviously still a large part of who is coming through,

54
00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:35,320
Speaker 3: but in the most recent three to five years especially,

55
00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,960
Speaker 3: the demographics are changing not just by country of origin

56
00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,320
Speaker 3: to include all over the world and reflecting like this

57
00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,840
Speaker 3: global migration crisis that's going on, but also the reasons

58
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,880
Speaker 3: and like the desperation is changing. So now it's not

59
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:56,840
Speaker 3: just like economic migration. There is asylum seekers, refugees, and

60
00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 3: it is just changing in tone of like why they're

61
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,480
Speaker 3: migrating and in what ways they're migrating.

62
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely I've noticed that, and like as the

63
00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,200
Speaker 1: climate continues to change, right, like more and more people

64
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,120
Speaker 1: come from those countries and you've seen that too, that

65
00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:16,120
Speaker 1: most heavily impacted by climate change. Yeah, yeah, and that

66
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,159
Speaker 1: makes a journey as it gets harder and harder in

67
00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,800
Speaker 1: the desert, like that makes a journey more and more perilous.

68
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,080
Speaker 3: I guess they've come from farther too, and they're at

69
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,760
Speaker 3: least sometimes like not at all familiar with the weather,

70
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,160
Speaker 3: with the terrain, what they're up against with like how

71
00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 3: you have to move in border towns. If you're not

72
00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 3: from a border town, you don't really know how to

73
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,279
Speaker 3: move and who to trust or more importantly, who not

74
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 3: to trust.

75
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,480
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and the people there's.

76
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,960
Speaker 3: A lot of pitfalls to just arriving at the border,

77
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,479
Speaker 3: even from like internal migration, like within Mexico. People arrive

78
00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,440
Speaker 3: to the border and don't really know how to operate

79
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,760
Speaker 3: like the day to day there, and it's really made

80
00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 3: an already incredibly dangerous situation, like just just totally a peral.

81
00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:05,159
Speaker 2: As more people have migrated from different countries around the world,

82
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,520
Speaker 2: you're also seeing people who have been on that journey

83
00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,559
Speaker 2: just to get to the United States line for longer

84
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,719
Speaker 2: amounts of time that you know, instead of maybe just

85
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,040
Speaker 2: weeks or a month, you're talking about months on months

86
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,559
Speaker 2: that people have been traveling you know, by foot, by train,

87
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,840
Speaker 2: by bus, you know, sometimes by plane. However they can

88
00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:31,279
Speaker 2: and we've seen, you know, we've seen like invoices for

89
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,320
Speaker 2: like hotel stays that people traveling from Turkey came and

90
00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,760
Speaker 2: they stayed like in tang Kun for like a month.

91
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,960
Speaker 2: So like I mean, people are gone from their from

92
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,120
Speaker 2: their homelands. You know, longer amounts of time now that

93
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,240
Speaker 2: you know, isn't a comfortable thing. So it's not like

94
00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,800
Speaker 2: you can relax and not like you can you know,

95
00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,560
Speaker 2: rest and you know mentally and physically everything like that.

96
00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,679
Speaker 2: So it's definitely making that part harder for people crossing.

97
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, Like I'm seeing more and more migrants

98
00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:08,320
Speaker 1: from from Africa and like they are very much like

99
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,520
Speaker 1: it's the community for them is hard to find sometimes,

100
00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,560
Speaker 1: like you know that, like there are different spaces for them,

101
00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,880
Speaker 1: and like they they end up in like distinct spaces

102
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,800
Speaker 1: from other Like migrant too are coming from other areas,

103
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:23,400
Speaker 1: and I know it can be very perilous for them,

104
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,080
Speaker 1: Like you say, just just moving around border towns and

105
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:31,479
Speaker 1: navigating the pitfalls of that. Yeah, it's it's becoming like

106
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,320
Speaker 1: a more and more difficult and I guess kind of

107
00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,359
Speaker 1: complicated issue. But I think what's not particularly complicated is that, like,

108
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,479
Speaker 1: no one should have to walk across the desert without water,

109
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,320
Speaker 1: right like that, it's pretty basic. So maybe we could

110
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,560
Speaker 1: go through what a water drop is, and like what

111
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,440
Speaker 1: just if we could walk through, like you know, how

112
00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,240
Speaker 1: far you guys walk, what you're leaving at there, what

113
00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,360
Speaker 1: you find that people take, what you find that they

114
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,080
Speaker 1: need in their journeys. And you were talking about the receipts.

115
00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,480
Speaker 1: I found tons of those and plane tickets and stuff

116
00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,640
Speaker 1: like the things that you find that help you understand

117
00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:09,880
Speaker 1: how better to help people. I guess.

118
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,920
Speaker 3: You want to talk about like how far the drops

119
00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:14,440
Speaker 3: are generally and all of that.

120
00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so right now, it just depends on the season,

121
00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,480
Speaker 2: the weather, you know, the length of the drops we hike.

122
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,320
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of our drops. We also utilize

123
00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,000
Speaker 2: four x fours to get us closer to areas to

124
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,320
Speaker 2: start our hikes, so we don't have to walk even

125
00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,760
Speaker 2: more miles. That helps us out and you know, being

126
00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,560
Speaker 2: able to carry more supplies, you know, with less walking

127
00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 2: in some areas. But when it's cooler times and the

128
00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,480
Speaker 2: temperatures are you know, below eighty degrees, you know we

129
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 2: can hike you know anywhere up to I think the

130
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:54,640
Speaker 2: max that we did was like just about twenty. But

131
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,760
Speaker 2: on the average, you know, the cool weather hikes will

132
00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,000
Speaker 2: do you know, know, right around ten miles or so.

133
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,520
Speaker 2: And then when it gets hot and the desert gets

134
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,440
Speaker 2: really hot out there, you know, like over one hundred

135
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,560
Speaker 2: and ten degrees on a constant basis and starting to

136
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,000
Speaker 2: get over one hundred and twenty degrees, you know, we

137
00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:18,680
Speaker 2: can maybe do about five miles by foot. We've kind

138
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,880
Speaker 2: of ran a trial and air this season as far

139
00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,800
Speaker 2: as trying to push further to see how far we

140
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,880
Speaker 2: can go, and we attempted seven miles and that I

141
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 2: mean we all were gassed right around the five mile mark.

142
00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,560
Speaker 2: So like we have to you know, set limits because

143
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,800
Speaker 2: not only is the distance, but the time spent underneath

144
00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,400
Speaker 2: the sun without shade, and that exposure is you know

145
00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,520
Speaker 2: what drives the internal body temperature up and everything like that.

146
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:47,800
Speaker 2: And if you don't have a chance to cool down,

147
00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,120
Speaker 2: that's when your body starts to wear out. You get

148
00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,200
Speaker 2: heat exhaustion, and you know, we want to avoid heat

149
00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,480
Speaker 2: stroke at all costs, and we're trying to, you know,

150
00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,040
Speaker 2: make sure everyone's safety is accounted for. So we have

151
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,720
Speaker 2: to kind of cap that in the in the summertime

152
00:08:58,800 --> 00:08:59,680
Speaker 2: to like five miles.

153
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:00,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

154
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have to definitely make pushes in the winter

155
00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,080
Speaker 3: to stockpile the areas that are just simply not accessible

156
00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 3: in the summer months. And the strategic and like paying

157
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 3: attention to what are entry points and can we hit

158
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,440
Speaker 3: those entry points or exit points. So maybe we can't

159
00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,040
Speaker 3: really access a route throughout its entirety, but we can

160
00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:27,120
Speaker 3: hit certain points of it more safely as a team

161
00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,680
Speaker 3: during these like incredibly hot months. But we leave supplies

162
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,960
Speaker 3: of water, food, and protective clothing, and the protective clothing

163
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,679
Speaker 3: varies depending on season. So I mean a lot of

164
00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,320
Speaker 3: people don't really take into consideration how cold it gets

165
00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,080
Speaker 3: in these areas. It gets wall below freezing in the

166
00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,400
Speaker 3: winter in the mountains of Ea San Diego County, it snows.

167
00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,600
Speaker 3: You know, some drops have gotten snowed out. We haven't

168
00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,600
Speaker 3: been able to complete them because of the snow, and

169
00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,240
Speaker 3: so the protective clothing varies in the summer. It's things

170
00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:04,640
Speaker 3: like bendan as, cooling towels, hats, socks we leave throughout

171
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:13,480
Speaker 3: the year, people's footwear not being appropriate almost almost always. Yeah,

172
00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,320
Speaker 3: blister can be a deacent sentence out there. So if

173
00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,880
Speaker 3: you get a blister and you're not able to keep

174
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:20,880
Speaker 3: up with your group, there's a really good chance that

175
00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,760
Speaker 3: you're going to get left. So something like having dry

176
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,680
Speaker 3: socks to change into can very well save somebody's life.

177
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,560
Speaker 3: So we leave socks throughout the year, pop top cans

178
00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,079
Speaker 3: of food and of course water.

179
00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:39,920
Speaker 2: In the wintertime, we leave sweatshirts, beanies like mittens, gloves, scarves, jackets,

180
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:46,160
Speaker 2: sometimes puffy jackets, sometimes blankets, you know, stuff to keep

181
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,960
Speaker 2: people warm when the temperatures you know, can be freezing

182
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,320
Speaker 2: for you know, most of the day. You know, in

183
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,960
Speaker 2: those harsh months of like January February, where eastern Sandewo

184
00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:00,600
Speaker 2: County gets the like the winter storms, the freezing cold,

185
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,160
Speaker 2: you know, when roads get shut down, we can't even access. So,

186
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,120
Speaker 2: as Jacqueline mentioned, you know, when it is cooler, we

187
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,160
Speaker 2: try to go as much as we can, as far

188
00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,280
Speaker 2: as we can, to stockpile as much as possible for

189
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,480
Speaker 2: when the weather prohibits us from doing so.

190
00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,520
Speaker 1: Otherwise, Yeah, and just give people a sense of like

191
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,840
Speaker 1: the temperature swings, like I've been in the mountains down

192
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,320
Speaker 1: by the border at like twenty degrees fahrenheit, which is

193
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:31,559
Speaker 1: like minus ten ish celsius I think, And yeah, also

194
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:33,839
Speaker 1: at one hundred and twenty which is like almost fifty

195
00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,800
Speaker 1: degrees celsius, and so you can they didn't swing that

196
00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,199
Speaker 1: much in one day, but there are days when it's

197
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,120
Speaker 1: above forty degrees celsius. And also the low freezing in

198
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,880
Speaker 1: the same day, like it's it can be really Yeah,

199
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 1: it's a perilous place. That's why people don't live there

200
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,480
Speaker 1: as a rule, Like it's not a place that's kind

201
00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:56,440
Speaker 1: to people. So I wonder like a lot of people,

202
00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,200
Speaker 1: I know, we did a series on title forty two,

203
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,400
Speaker 1: spoke to a lot of people, and a lot of

204
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,319
Speaker 1: people reached out and they like they want to help,

205
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,959
Speaker 1: and I understand that the border. I think for a

206
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 1: lot of people it is like I think reporting on

207
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,199
Speaker 1: the borders as a rule is not great, like that

208
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,719
Speaker 1: we tend to see migrants as numbers and not as

209
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,400
Speaker 1: people a lot when when people report on the border, right,

210
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,760
Speaker 1: and that that's kind of it happens with with more

211
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,000
Speaker 1: liberal outlets as well as more right wing outlets. But

212
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,600
Speaker 1: I wonder, like, a how people who aren't in town, Like,

213
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,120
Speaker 1: if you're not in if you don't live in the

214
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,840
Speaker 1: border lands, right, it's so you live in the middle

215
00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,880
Speaker 1: of America, Like, how can they help? What can they

216
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,000
Speaker 1: do to kind of support the process that you're doing

217
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:41,880
Speaker 1: making this horrible thing a little kind.

218
00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:48,760
Speaker 3: Of We have on all of our social media and

219
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,200
Speaker 3: as well as on our website ways that people can help.

220
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,600
Speaker 3: We have wish lists for items if people help want

221
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,680
Speaker 3: to contribute in that way, and that's literally like contributing

222
00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:05,480
Speaker 3: the items that we leave. We also have donation links,

223
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 3: so if people want to help financially, that goes a

224
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,920
Speaker 3: huge way in order to facilitate everything that we do.

225
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:20,040
Speaker 3: It's i mean, gas is incredibly expensive. The supplies that

226
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,880
Speaker 3: we don't get donated by a wish list have to

227
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,640
Speaker 3: be purchased, that sort of thing. So providing material aid

228
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,319
Speaker 3: is one way of contributing. And then aside from that,

229
00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:34,400
Speaker 3: I think just following along with this work and sharing

230
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,000
Speaker 3: it and changing the conversation because, like as you said,

231
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:42,679
Speaker 3: reporting on the border can be really tricky. People tend

232
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,440
Speaker 3: to not just utilize migrants, but utilize the border as

233
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,600
Speaker 3: a region in order to have talking points for either

234
00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,400
Speaker 3: like media outlets or campaigns or that sort of thing,

235
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,200
Speaker 3: and the border gets treated as sort of like its

236
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:59,400
Speaker 3: own foreign area that's not related to either country, like

237
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,400
Speaker 3: nobody wants to responsibility for it. And you know, residents

238
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,439
Speaker 3: of the United States also are complicit in that. And

239
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,120
Speaker 3: because they don't really they just talk about the border.

240
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,320
Speaker 3: They don't say, like, this is something that's happening in

241
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:15,440
Speaker 3: my country. So I think sharing and discussing and becoming

242
00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,080
Speaker 3: informed of what's going on, and also feeling like that

243
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,040
Speaker 3: kinship and ownership of like, hey, this is happening. I

244
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 3: mean for people, it doesn't have to be as far

245
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,520
Speaker 3: as like the middle of the country. A lot of

246
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,320
Speaker 3: people in San Diego don't et really engage in.

247
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't really bother.

248
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,440
Speaker 3: You know, it feels like so far away, even though

249
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,000
Speaker 3: it's like twenty minutes away. Meanwhile, people are dropping dead

250
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,000
Speaker 3: so close to where people live, and they choose to

251
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:45,360
Speaker 3: turn a blind eye. So I think kind of demystifying

252
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,240
Speaker 3: that for ourselves and sharing in that it goes a

253
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:49,120
Speaker 3: long way as well.

254
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I think that's that's very true. It's always

255
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,400
Speaker 1: amazing to me, Like how twenty eighteen or the other

256
00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:58,960
Speaker 1: big one I guess would be the end of Title

257
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,080
Speaker 1: forty two, which was here in May, Like people will

258
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 1: become more aware of what's happening and turn up and

259
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 1: like it's so very radicalizing for other people in a

260
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,240
Speaker 1: positive way, like get engaged them in a way they

261
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,040
Speaker 1: haven't been engaged before. But it's I know, it's like

262
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,040
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be, like we shouldn't be something we ever

263
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,360
Speaker 1: get used to. How like cruel our border infrastructure is

264
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,360
Speaker 1: and what it does for us, but people are just

265
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:29,600
Speaker 1: blown away every time. Absolutely, Yeah, but I think you're right,

266
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,960
Speaker 1: like witnessing it is very important, even if you know

267
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,240
Speaker 1: you can't done it financially, if you can't get down here.

268
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely just share stuff that you know, if you

269
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,800
Speaker 2: know our organization posts something on social media, you know,

270
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,360
Speaker 2: I mean, it has to be taken out as the

271
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,680
Speaker 2: truth because we're out there firsthand. We're the ones on

272
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,760
Speaker 2: the ground seeing reporting back, and by sharing that, you

273
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,120
Speaker 2: get people you know in different parts of the country

274
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 2: or even you know, different parts of the world seeing

275
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:02,120
Speaker 2: like the realities of the US Mexico border. Because you know,

276
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,880
Speaker 2: most people in the United States don't know. If they

277
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 2: don't don't see it, they'll live near it. So that's

278
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,040
Speaker 2: you know, something that most people rely on the media

279
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,080
Speaker 2: and what they see on the nightly news. And you

280
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:22,600
Speaker 2: know even that, you know, the big media outlets don't

281
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:28,800
Speaker 2: take the most realistic or don't share the most realistic

282
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,720
Speaker 2: parts of the border, you know, only to you know,

283
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,480
Speaker 2: cater to their you know, their sponsors, or cater to

284
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,840
Speaker 2: their crowds, and so a lot of people will get

285
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,560
Speaker 2: like the headlines, but they don't get the real deal,

286
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,680
Speaker 2: like you know, what's going on down the border, and

287
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 2: so sharing is is a big part of you know,

288
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,640
Speaker 2: how the word spreads about the work that we do

289
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,160
Speaker 2: in other organizations as well.

290
00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:08,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's very very bad age. It was

291
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:10,600
Speaker 1: interesting to me recently. I didn't if you guys saw this,

292
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:16,280
Speaker 1: but like the floating border barrier in Texas, like very

293
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,360
Speaker 1: like this week, people have been reporting that it has

294
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,760
Speaker 1: the blades on it, which it does, and that's fucked up,

295
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,560
Speaker 1: like they shouldn't. It's horrible, but like it was kind

296
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 1: of illiterative that I guess none of the are that

297
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,320
Speaker 1: none of the national outlets had someone who'd seen it,

298
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,080
Speaker 1: because the blades have been there for months where the

299
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 1: prototype sat there they were in the twenty twenty solicitation

300
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 1: to like it just seemed odd to me that someone

301
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,920
Speaker 1: had to tweet a video for them to like understand

302
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,000
Speaker 1: because like, obviously no one had walked up to it

303
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,879
Speaker 1: and checked it out, which I don't know. I think

304
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,200
Speaker 1: it's hard to do border reporting in New York personally,

305
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:54,679
Speaker 1: But yes, you're you're interested in the northern border. So

306
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,600
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask about Title forty two because I

307
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,880
Speaker 1: think our listeners are pretty well informed on like what

308
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,239
Speaker 1: that was and what happened before and after that. So

309
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:08,040
Speaker 1: did you guys notice when that came into effect? Just

310
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 1: to recap, I guess for people, Title forty two allowed

311
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:16,119
Speaker 1: border patrol to bounce people straight back south without processing

312
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,040
Speaker 1: them and in nearly all cases without hearing that their

313
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,719
Speaker 1: claims were asylum if they had, and then those people

314
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 1: were sometimes laterally translated across the border to a border

315
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 1: town where they may not have had contacts or family

316
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,560
Speaker 1: or any resources, and it often resulted in those people

317
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,800
Speaker 1: finding themselves in an even more difficult situation than they

318
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,320
Speaker 1: already were, or trying to cross in more difficult and

319
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,760
Speaker 1: dangerous places to avoid that. So, did you guys notice

320
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,920
Speaker 1: any changes like around and that came in what March

321
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,080
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty as soon as they could, as soon

322
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:57,160
Speaker 1: as they found an excuse in COVID.

323
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:59,480
Speaker 2: Not so much from what we see because we don't

324
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,480
Speaker 2: come cross people too often face to face. Did notice

325
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 2: that once the policy was put into place, meaning title

326
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,080
Speaker 2: forty two, and you know, with the pandemic starting, we

327
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,879
Speaker 2: did notice a big uptick on the amount of people

328
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:24,159
Speaker 2: coming through. We've seen you know before that you know,

329
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,439
Speaker 2: just a handful of people maybe like that. We'd come

330
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,800
Speaker 2: across a lot of times, those people crossing at nighttime

331
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 2: and it wasn't something that we came across much. But

332
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,680
Speaker 2: after that went into effect in twenty twenty, we started

333
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 2: running into a lot more people. We started seeing people

334
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:44,720
Speaker 2: that knew, you know, somewhat of you know, the policy,

335
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 2: and that people would try multiple times every day to

336
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 2: you know, cross through, and if they got apprehended and

337
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 2: got you know, taken into Mexico, they tried again that

338
00:19:55,640 --> 00:20:00,080
Speaker 2: same day. And so we noticed a lot more of

339
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 2: our supplies being used, a lot more foot traffic, and

340
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 2: a lot more you know interactions with us. We started

341
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 2: seeing a lot more interactions with you know, board patrol

342
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,879
Speaker 2: and people crossing through. And so when the policy was

343
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 2: coming to an end, the only thing that we really

344
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,640
Speaker 2: saw increase was the amount of people trying to get

345
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 2: in before you know, quote unquote got closed off, you know,

346
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 2: before like the bands would go into effect, and you know,

347
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 2: like the no you know, you can re enter for

348
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 2: a you know a certain amount of years and all

349
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,959
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. So like the camp in Hkomba,

350
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,119
Speaker 2: you know, you see you know, thousands of people showing

351
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 2: up as that you know stopped, as Top forty two stopped.

352
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 2: We really can't notice too much yet that less people

353
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 2: are crossing through compared to the beginning the middle of

354
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 2: the policy. Our supplies are still being used at a

355
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 2: high rate. Still see a fair amount of traffic come through,

356
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,120
Speaker 2: you know, these these corridors and everything like that. So

357
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 2: it's kind of hard on our end. But you know,

358
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 2: we also know that people who do cross not at

359
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 2: a port of entry by foot, whether it's over a fence,

360
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 2: whether it's around a fence, whether it's through the desert,

361
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 2: over the hills. We know that people are still being

362
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 2: apprehended processed and released with their asylum claims. So it's hard,

363
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 2: as you know, on the board to know exactly what's

364
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 2: going on because a policy can say one thing, yeah,

365
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter exactly, like the residential administration can say

366
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 2: one thing, the DHS can say one thing, and completely

367
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 2: different is happening, you know right right there. I don't know.

368
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't really say honestly how much it's

369
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 2: it's changed from our perspective.

370
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 3: I think when these things happen, like it's always really

371
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 3: difficult because like like I think the three of us

372
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 3: are aware of there's the things that are put in place,

373
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 3: and that's how they're going to be applied in theory,

374
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 3: and then those of us that have been doing this

375
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 3: work can anticipate how it's going to have an impact

376
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 3: in practice.

377
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: So like.

378
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 3: The things that are occurring now in order to so

379
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 3: called like curb the influx of people like using an

380
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 3: app or having like certain things, like all of these

381
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 3: things like we know and we don't have like any

382
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 3: faith that they were put in in good faith and

383
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 3: we know like that we can anticipate, Okay, you're going

384
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 3: to be banned if you don't go in through these

385
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 3: like really ridiculously inaccessible means, and that that word is

386
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 3: going to get around that people are going to freak out,

387
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 3: they're not going to bother, and they're going to hit

388
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 3: the desert. And that's what we're seeing. Whether we can

389
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 3: actually like attribute it directly to like these policy changes,

390
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 3: what I think we can attribute it more directly to

391
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 3: is like one, global migration, regardless of policy, is increasing

392
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 3: all over the world, and that desperation doesn't like really

393
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 3: wait for any kind of policy change. Two is like

394
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 3: the misinformation and sort of like chatter that people are

395
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 3: hearing about like this policy is changing, Oh I heard that,

396
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 3: Like if you don't use this app, they're going to

397
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 3: put you in jail. And like just like literally these

398
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 3: things that we're hearing on the border that is funneling

399
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 3: people directly into the desert because they want to avoid

400
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 3: any kind of interaction with border patrol, even if they

401
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 3: have like what would be a you know, like an

402
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 3: asylum claim. People aren't trusting because there's so much change

403
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 3: and uncertainty at like a policy level. There's no accessibility

404
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 3: to this information, there's no clarity to this information. Nobody

405
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 3: knows what's going on, whether it's people that are working

406
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 3: in border aid or people that are seeking asylum. So

407
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 3: people are just you know, taking their chances and hitting

408
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 3: the desert. And regardless of the policy changed, like ever

409
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 3: since the last like you know, like we said, like

410
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 3: three to five years, the increase has been like exponential

411
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,160
Speaker 3: every single year. It just continues increasing.

412
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 2: I one to add is that so the Title forty

413
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 2: two policy was used, you know, in conjunction with the

414
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 2: you know, national emergency with COVID and all that kind

415
00:24:53,200 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 2: of stuff with the country, you know, ending the the

416
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: national emergency, they couldn't you know, couldn't justify keeping Title

417
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 2: forty two in effect. And in a way, I feel

418
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: that the administration was just playing you know, political chess

419
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 2: and using people, vulnerable people as pawns. And so the

420
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 2: rhetoric coming out and you know, the you know, we're

421
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: taking a hard stance and this, that and the other

422
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 2: a crack down on immigration, and that I feel it

423
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 2: was the current presidential administration just trying to appeal to

424
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 2: a larger audience or when the election comes up next year,

425
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 2: you know can say hey, look did this, did that,

426
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 2: did this? And the way the numbers have been skewed

427
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: for apprehensions. You know, that's when you'd have like say

428
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 2: in San Luis and Yuma, Arizona, you would see you know,

429
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 2: hundreds and thousands of people every day showing up to

430
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 2: present themselves for asulnd those all got recorded as apprehension numbers.

431
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 2: So you've got in one month, you know, however many

432
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 2: you know, thousands. Now Title forty two ends. Now that

433
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: number shrinks down. Now, that looks better, That looks tougher on,

434
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 2: you know, immergion. That looks like you're doing this, that

435
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 2: and the other. Meanwhile, you have people just you know,

436
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: being vulnerable, being you know in limbo, you know, on

437
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: the other side of the border, or you have them

438
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 2: taking to the mountains and deserts and taking a dangerous

439
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: trek just so they can be apprehended and you know,

440
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 2: plead their case and try to get asylum and try

441
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: to get released into the United States. So people that

442
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: are are being used as pawns in this political theater

443
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: that we always talk about it as we always it

444
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 2: doesn't matter the administration, whether it's blue, whether it's red,

445
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 2: whether it's orange, whether it's old, whether it's you know, money,

446
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: it's all money. And unfortunately, you know, we have to

447
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 2: constantly like dispel a lot of that false narrative that

448
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: comes out, and it gets exhausting, but I mean it's

449
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: what we have to do because you're not going to

450
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 2: find that out any other way.

451
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're really not. I think that's the next point.

452
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: And the point about apprehensions is good, right, They always

453
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: reported and I've heard like NPR do this report apprehensions

454
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: as if they're individuals, which they were not under Title

455
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: forty two. Like if you cross five times in a

456
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 1: day and get apprehended and sent back five times, that's

457
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: five apprehensions. It's one person. And they were deliberately using

458
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 1: that to make this seem like more people are coming,

459
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 1: and as you say, now it will seem like less

460
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: because that doesn't happen anymore. I think your point about

461
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: like the Jackling, the points about the misinformation is super

462
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 1: crucial and one that again often isn't reported. But like

463
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer, and I can't give people legal advice,

464
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: but constantly when I'm in Tijuana, when I'm in Sonora,

465
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: when anywhere where I'm like on the southern side of

466
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: the border or on this side of the border, people

467
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: will ask me or when the people are trapped in

468
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: between the two fences that constitute the border, people will say,

469
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: hey have you had this? Hey I got this, and

470
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: they'll play like voice messages on WhatsApp often or show

471
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 1: me a WhatsApp and we'll go over. Like that's not

472
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: my understanding, you know, Like I don't think that's the case,

473
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: but it's I understand you're vulnerable, you're scared, and this

474
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: shit Like I have a PhD and speak all the

475
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: concerned languages, and I don't understand it fully, Like it's

476
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: it's complicated and petrifying if this is your only hope

477
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: of like a dignified life, and I think it's something

478
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: that people don't understand. It's how hard it is for

479
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: those people to get decent information about like what there's

480
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: quote unquote supposed to do, especially when we have this app,

481
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: which like I don't have a ton of foyers in

482
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: around the app, but I don't think I'll ever get

483
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: any documents back from the FED, to be honest, But yeah,

484
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: it's so trocious. I think.

485
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, then the parmation that people receive isn't even accurate. Like,

486
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 3: so whenever there is that somebody like say has come

487
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 3: to like our office downtown in Mihikali and like you know,

488
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: run in their paperwork and say, like, I have a

489
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 3: court date. They're like there was a time like during

490
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 3: you know MPP and all of that, like where people

491
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 3: were being giving court dates on Sundays or being given

492
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 3: court dates in Texas when they were sent back after

493
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 3: their arrest in Arizona to MEXICALI like just crazy stuff,

494
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 3: like like if people are even lucky enough to get

495
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,959
Speaker 3: somebody to help guide them through the process, it's not

496
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 3: even like a certainty that the information that they're provided

497
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 3: is even going to be accurate on purpose, Like people

498
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 3: are given inaccurate information to wade through this process that

499
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 3: doesn't seem to make sense to anyone. It's it's wildly

500
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 3: like convoluted. I mean that's the intention, right, Like it's

501
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 3: not meant to be navigated in any way.

502
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: No, No, it's not. It's meant to put love I think,

503
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: and like even with the work that our friends at

504
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: Alato do and other legal aid groups. I was speaking

505
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: to an Ethiopian friend who I met in Tijuana and

506
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: he lives in US and he helps other folks now

507
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: who have arrived more recently and he was saying that,

508
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: like getting a lawyer to represent you can cost you

509
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: maybe five grand, maybe twelve, and you might not have

510
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: the legal right to work, right, So where is that

511
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: money supposed to come from? And then you know, if

512
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: if your language is you know, aroma or something, it's

513
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: that much harder to navigate that system, to find useful

514
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: resources to explain it to you. And it's yeah, it's

515
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: people like to talk about like how I know that

516
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: their family did legal legal quote unquote migration when there

517
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: weren't these checks in place and they didn't have to

518
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: do any of this shit, And I don't know. It's

519
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: I don't think people realize how brutalizing the system is

520
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: until like they've seen it first time at.

521
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 3: The closest the point, like the and the confusion, like

522
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 3: putting people in danger is the whole point, and it's intentional.

523
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 3: Like so if somebody's there and like you said, like

524
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 3: they speak there, they're not able to even like wrap

525
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 3: their heads around the process, let alone access like the

526
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 3: resources in order to navigate that system. Then a coyote

527
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 3: approaches them and tells them like, oh, I can take

528
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 3: you over here to Romosa. All you have to do

529
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 3: is pay me three hundred American instead of five thousand

530
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 3: for this, Like, Eh, you're probably not going to win

531
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 3: that case. The town's a mile away. The town's a

532
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 3: mile away, and it's a straight shot and you'll get

533
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 3: there in half a day and then you're good to go.

534
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 3: And I mean we've heard the most wild stories, like

535
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 3: even from people in the middle of the desert lost

536
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: saying they told me it was two mile walk and

537
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 3: that there was they were hiring in the town on

538
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 3: the other side of that hill.

539
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, like and I.

540
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 3: Mean, like who wouldn't at that point it's like you

541
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 3: don't have a country to go back to. Yeah, Like

542
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 3: it's no longer like, oh, I'm fleeing my I'm migrating

543
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 3: from my country because there's no work. No, there is

544
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 3: no country to speak of, at least not for you.

545
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 3: And you're here and the Gooa presents you this upper

546
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: like so it's misinformation and exploitation like every single step

547
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 3: of the way, And a lot of the time people's

548
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 3: most straightforward avenue is through the desert, even though it's

549
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 3: like unbelievably hard and very very often deadly. That's like

550
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 3: the surest shot that they have and they take it.

551
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,239
Speaker 1: Because I mean it wouldn't Yeah, no, it's it's not

552
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: like yet, like you say, people aren't like doing the

553
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: numbers and thinking they'll make more money in the US.

554
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: It's like I will die if I stay at home

555
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: or someone has already killed someone I love and I

556
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: have to leave now, And especially when like the Trump administration,

557
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: like the people aren't aware. Like towards the end of

558
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: the Trump administration, Trump started making claims in presidential debates

559
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: about the number of miles of war he was he

560
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: had built as far as I can work out, he

561
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: pulled out of his ass, and then the like then

562
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: they started rushing to build more wall, and they I

563
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: asked them how they came up with that number, and

564
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: then they like they did this thing where they were like, oh, well,

565
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: we repaired this much wall, and they were like eight

566
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: miles of border wall prototype and like a cool man,

567
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: like they didn't build that much wall, but they started

568
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: skipping the harder parts right like Valley of the Moon,

569
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: even that Boulder Pilo outside of Cumber Like, there are

570
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: areas that don't have wall, and those are areas that

571
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: are harder, and then that's where people try and cross

572
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: and like I love to go outside. I'm a pretty

573
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: fit person, and like Valley of the Moon, it is

574
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: a odd going, like if you're not going up the road,

575
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: like that's tough travel. And that's where people don't have

576
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: a choice been to cross right right, Yeah.

577
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 2: That's where and that's where, like you in May, it

578
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,439
Speaker 2: was I think with the first second week of May,

579
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: when you know, just a few days before Total forty

580
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 2: two was ending. That's where thousands of people came through.

581
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: Was through that area down into the town of Komba,

582
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 2: and a lot of people, I mean we're talking about

583
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: you know, thousands came through there, and a lot said

584
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 2: that they paid upwards to one thousand dollars ahead two

585
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 2: coyotes that brought them there and said, hey, when you

586
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: get down there, you just follow this road. Once you

587
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: get down to the bottom, there's gonna be a buz

588
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: waiting for you. It'll take you in. And then they

589
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 2: got stranded for days after going through that terrain. The

590
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 2: temperature that's when like the season really started shifting. So

591
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: the nights were really cold, the day time highs were

592
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 2: pretty hot, and I mean that was the you know

593
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 2: designed you know.

594
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 3: Cruelty, the invasion that gave. That gave the semblance of

595
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 3: the invasion.

596
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: Because you could huddle people together and then claim that

597
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 1: you weren't detaining.

598
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 2: Them that right exactly, they weren't free to leave. They

599
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: said that Border patrol told them that they had arrest

600
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: them if they left the I mean I say camp

601
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 2: loosely because it was just like out in an open

602
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 2: field with that people you know, cut down branches and

603
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 2: turn into shelters and use areas that they cut down

604
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: for like fires, campfires and knights to stay warm. Yeah,

605
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 2: and you know, Border patrol probably didn't expect that a

606
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 2: people locally in Hukumba were going to care or b

607
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: that the word would get out, and so their cruel

608
00:35:54,600 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 2: practices that they were in acting on like the first

609
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 2: day or two of people showing up and being stranded

610
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: no food, no water, then it kind of backfired. And

611
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 2: then you know, I believe you went out there as well.

612
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: You saw how many people showed up to take care,

613
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: and like we were working around the clock to try

614
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: to you know, organize and make food, prepare food pack,

615
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: collect donations, everything. And you know that's I've gone through

616
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: that terrain. And you know, after all that was closed

617
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 2: down and looking through as you know, as we did

618
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 2: like trash cleanups and people you know, would have their

619
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: last remaining food and water that you could see like

620
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 2: coming through across you know, the area where they were

621
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 2: brought to and like people were shedding clothes because the

622
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 2: temperatures were so warm dur in the daytime and then

623
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: just wondering like okay, so they shod their clothes and

624
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: now they're like freezing down the bottom of the hill

625
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: and the terrain's too tough to go all the way

626
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 2: back up. Yeah, and you know they yeah, there's no

627
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 2: fence over there. And the fences you know, we've said

628
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 2: have always been kind of built for the most part

629
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 2: where people can see them. It gives the appearance to

630
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 2: the rest of the country that's not out there, that

631
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: there's a fence across the whole border, and you know,

632
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 2: go into a lot of areas where we see that

633
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 2: that's not the case. And also we see where border

634
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 2: fences stop and migration makes its way right around the

635
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 2: edge of that. Yeah, most time, but the disk now

636
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: has increased longer for the walks because instead of just

637
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 2: being able to walk through like an open area, now

638
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: you have to go miles out of the way to

639
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: get around to an opening and the fence or go

640
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 2: up and over a mountain, and you know, doing that

641
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 2: in the summertime, you exhaust yourself from the strategist hike

642
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 2: on top of the unbearable heat, and then you pass away,

643
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 2: you know, an eighth of a mile from a fence,

644
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 2: you know, as someone that we know that happened to

645
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: them a couple of years ago. So it's yeah, as

646
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,879
Speaker 2: you're saying, like the fences and like where they're not put,

647
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 2: it's it's just a point of cruelty and part of

648
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 2: the prevention through the terrence policy that's been going on

649
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: for you know, almost thirty years now, and yeah, definitely, yeah,

650
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 2: and the CBP one app app and all kinds of

651
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 2: suff that's just another extension of prevention through the turns

652
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 2: by making it harder for people and pushing people to

653
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 2: ways that they can try to get through or you

654
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 2: know what they think they can try to get through easier.

655
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: And as Jacquelin said, it's just it's become more and

656
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 2: more dead here, and every year the numbers go up

657
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 2: of confirmed deaths, but that doesn't count the amount of

658
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 2: people that go missing every year.

659
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, or the people who like board the patrol and

660
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: find and they you know, their numbers are any the

661
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: people who they found. And that's the areas that go

662
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: like if people die for the North or yeah.

663
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 3: Or the death that they they deliberately miscategorize as non

664
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 3: migrant death and they're just John Doe's Jane Doe whatever.

665
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 2: You know.

666
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 3: They just say like, oh, you know, cause of death unclear,

667
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 3: or cause of death for exposure, but they don't necessarily

668
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 3: call it a migrant death even though someone you know,

669
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 3: traveling with a backpack in the desert. Yeah, and you know,

670
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 3: like say that they were migrating just because they had

671
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 3: you know, under and passport on them that all the

672
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 3: time too. Be so all of this is like we

673
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 3: don't know the scope of their cruelty. Like it's just scary,

674
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 3: is that, Like it's so much bigger than we even know,

675
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 3: even like those of us that are like in it

676
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 3: every day.

677
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no numbers like I I would in a

678
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: sense left to in a sense would be horrible. I

679
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 1: don't think it should matter, Like I don't think it

680
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: should matter how many people, Like every single one of

681
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 1: those is a tragedy and it's someone's mum or dad

682
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: or brother. I kind of wanted to to maybe talk

683
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 1: about like one incident that if you're comfortable doing it

684
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: like that you might be familiar with that I think

685
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: can give people a sense of how dehumanizing this is

686
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: and how cruel this is. You guys, I know you're

687
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: familiar with it. But the young women who died on

688
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: the shrine trail in was it winter of twenty twenty

689
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: or winter of twenty twenty one?

690
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 2: Yes, that was February twenty twenty.

691
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's right before COVID. So for people who

692
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: aren't as familiar, can I spoke a little bit about

693
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: it in our series, but can you describe kind of

694
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: the process that if you're comfortable, I know, it's like

695
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: a it's a pretty horrible thing, but can you describe

696
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: like like how they crossed and what happened to them?

697
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: I mean, we can give you like some of the

698
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: background that was like in a newspaper article that we

699
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 2: come to learn.

700
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, we have a like direct communication. Yeah yeah, yeah,

701
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 1: you're not in content. I just like I think it

702
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: would be helpful for people to realize, like, you know, this,

703
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: this is what happened to them. And then also that

704
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 1: you guys have been able to respond after that happened

705
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: to like at least try and and help like deploy

706
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: kind of resources to that a bit less of a

707
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: treacherous crossing.

708
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 2: So as the situation was unfolding, it was nighttime and

709
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: there was like a freak storm that came through eastern

710
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: San die County around around the area of I think

711
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 2: like Live Oak Springs Mount Lagoon area, and it was

712
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 2: just you know, raining and cold before, but like later

713
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: on that day it kind of turned into snow and

714
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: just turned into heavy winds, like zero visibility snowstorm. And

715
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 2: these three sisters that were from Wahaka, who've crossed over

716
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 2: for work multiple times, came worked, went back home, you know,

717
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: for you know, whatever season, came back, worked, went back home.

718
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 2: And it was my understanding that they were trying to

719
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 2: save up enough money from what they made here in

720
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: the United States to open up their own business. And

721
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 2: so the day came when they were crossing over the

722
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 2: they came through I think like in the Campo area,

723
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 2: I think it was, and they were led by two

724
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 2: brothers that had crossed previously in the same spot and

725
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: knew the trail of which to go. But I believe

726
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 2: it was their first time actually leading people through and

727
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 2: not just themselves coming through. So they you know, they

728
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 2: remember the way got up close to where the shrine is,

729
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 2: of the shrine trail. There's a little shrine up there

730
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: that people would you know, leave little little symbols and

731
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 2: tokens and little items behind, mostly to you know, the

732
00:43:54,200 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 2: Virgin of Wlupe. And from that point it is that

733
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 2: that's the last time you can be hiking on that

734
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 2: trail that far north and turn around and still see Mexico.

735
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 2: Anything beyond that, it's kind of like the point of

736
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 2: like you can't see Mexico, like you've got to keep

737
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 2: moving forward. You've already gone, you know. At this point

738
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 2: it's close to thirty I think air miles, so like

739
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 2: you know, you know, walking miles is a lot more

740
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 2: than that. Yeah, And they were at this kind of

741
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 2: like rock boulder outcropping just about five minutes walk shy

742
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: of the shrine when the sisters couldn't keep going anymore.

743
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 2: And because of the extreme weather, in the extreme cold,

744
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 2: they were soaking wet from the rain and then the

745
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 2: you know, the sub freezing temperatures with the snowstorm they

746
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 2: couldn't keep going anymore, and so they were kind of

747
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: huddled up underneath of this boulder. It's the only spot

748
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 2: that kind of gave like a little bit of shelter

749
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: from that storm. Yet, I mean, those rocks are you

750
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 2: know ice cubes, you know, being out there that long.

751
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 2: So the two brothers I believe, left to try to

752
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 2: get cell phone signal because you know, you're you're up

753
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 2: pretty high in the mountains. I think that elevation up

754
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 2: there on the mountain, I think it's somewhere around five

755
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 2: thousand feet more so that that location where we're where

756
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 2: they passed away, and the brothers they took off to

757
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: try to get cell phone range to call and you

758
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 2: know EMS, which turns out to be you know, border

759
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 2: patrol in that region, and so got to hold a

760
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:03,919
Speaker 2: border patrol order. Patrol arrived to where the brothers were,

761
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 2: and first thing, you know, before you know, rushing to

762
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 2: try to make a rescue anything, they you know, detained

763
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 2: and arrested the brothers for you know, for you know,

764
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: human smuggling, trafficking, you know, just you know, being coyotes.

765
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 2: And then they put in efforts of trying to rescue.

766
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 2: By the time I believe that they got to the

767
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 2: three sisters. Two of them had already passed away, and

768
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 2: there was one that was still barely alive, unconscious, and

769
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 2: due to the whether, as Board Patrol has stated, the agents,

770
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 2: the four star you know rescue agents, the search and

771
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 2: trauma rescue, they had to take off. They couldn't airlift

772
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 2: the last remaining sister out because there was zero visibility.

773
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 2: The helicopter couldn't even get like find them, couldn't get

774
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,479
Speaker 2: like anywhere close to them, couldn't hover because the wind

775
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 2: was blown so hard. It was just about a whiteout condition. So,

776
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 2: I mean, the most you know fucked situation possible, and

777
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: Border Patrol in order to make sure it didn't turn

778
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 2: into from a triple fatality to however many of them

779
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 2: there were, I think there was three or fours they

780
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: were out there, so to you know, in order to

781
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 2: save their lives, they took off. They put the last

782
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 2: remaining sister like in a like a puffy overall type

783
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: of situation, and they had taken her wet clothes, They

784
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 2: cut her wet clothes off her and you know, were

785
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 2: actively trying to warm her with like heat packs and

786
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 2: wrapping her and so they took off and kind of

787
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 2: just like left her, you know, with basically as they said,

788
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 2: the best you know, chances possible of survival, even though

789
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: someone being left on their own in that condition there's

790
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:25,399
Speaker 2: zero chances of survival. Border patrol took off, allegedly injured themselves,

791
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: you know, in doing so, got frostbited, et cetera. I

792
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 2: think it was the next day, came back out for

793
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 2: the would turned out to be the recovery, and all

794
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 2: three sisters had passed away, you know, from you know,

795
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 2: freezing to death. And so as we learned about that,

796
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 2: you know, as the situation was unfolding, we reached out

797
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 2: to the journalists who wrote the article in local San

798
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 2: Diego Union Tribune. His name is Alex Riggins, and through

799
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 2: you know, some back and forth contact, he was covering

800
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: the trial of the two brothers that brought the sisters

801
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 2: through their in court for their deaths, and reached out

802
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 2: to see if we could find out any information, if

803
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 2: he could, if Alex could let us know like maybe

804
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,720
Speaker 2: where the shrine trail was, or maybe where the location

805
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 2: of the recovery was just something that we would have

806
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 2: so we can, you know, put it on a map,

807
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 2: figure out how to get there and get boots on

808
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 2: the ground to leave supplies, you know, a few times

809
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 2: a year, whether it's going to be really hot or

810
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 2: really cold. We wanted to make sure that, you know,

811
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 2: we responded to the crisis as we found out about it.

812
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 2: That's something that we unfortunately have had to do all

813
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 2: too common in this work, is that's we're planning the

814
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: way that we learn.

815
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 3: Yeah it's too late.

816
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 2: Sometimes, yeah, yeah, a lot of you have to learn

817
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 2: efforts too late. And that's part of our expansion of

818
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 2: areas that we cover. That's how we learn stuff, and

819
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 2: that's how we work at preventing you know, further suffering

820
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 2: and further deaths. So we got more or less a

821
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,959
Speaker 2: good location and one of our team members at the time,

822
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 2: he went out on a weekday that he had off,

823
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 2: and he just went kind of driving around in the

824
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:43,720
Speaker 2: area and start hiking out in this area that looked

825
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 2: like from the photos that were in the newspaper could

826
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 2: have been this location. And he put in a long

827
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 2: hike that day and he found the clothing that was

828
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 2: removed from the last he found the like the puffy overalls.

829
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 2: He found a bunch of medical equipment, like emergency equipment

830
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 2: that was used for you know, the three sisters during

831
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 2: that process. And shortly after that, I think it was

832
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 2: just like a couple of weeks, we got together some

833
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 2: of our strongest hikers and we decided to go out

834
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 2: there and leave a bunch of supplies. And that is

835
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 2: it is a hard, hard hike, whether you're you know,

836
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: carrying thirty five forty pounds on your back or you're

837
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: just carrying, you know, a backpack with like a bottle

838
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 2: of water and some food. Like, it's hard no matter what.

839
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,359
Speaker 2: So we got up there and we left supplies, and

840
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: you know, we've been going back usually before seasons change,

841
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: whether it gets hot gets cold, and we we track

842
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 2: to see if you know, anything's been taken. And it

843
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 2: doesn't appear that that trail gets too much use, but

844
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 2: it does get some use. Yeah. So you know, I

845
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 2: don't know if if the three sisters passing away they

846
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:20,240
Speaker 2: had anything to do with like future travel for people

847
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 2: on the trying trail or what, but you know, we

848
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 2: make that commitment in their honor and to prevent anything

849
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 2: like this ever happening again.

850
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, sent me a very sad, very sad situation and like, yeah,

851
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: it so many things have to go wrong and so

852
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: many people have to turn a blind eye, I guess

853
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: for the three people to die.

854
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 3: Like you know, there's blatant negligence on the part of

855
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 3: border Patrol very regularly, given that they are supposedly like

856
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 3: as James mentioned, the emergency medical service that's out there,

857
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 3: and there is outright blatant, deadly discrimination that occurs when

858
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 3: it comes to providing emergency services for migrants. In this case,

859
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 3: they prioritize apprehension over saving people. Every moment is going

860
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,879
Speaker 3: to count and regardless of what the conditions were, those

861
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 3: are the conditions, and that's the story that they're reporting.

862
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,359
Speaker 3: I think we rightfully are skeptical of anything that they

863
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,240
Speaker 3: say when it comes to rescues and how they prioritize

864
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 3: doing so when we have seen entirely the opposite occur

865
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 3: on a regular basis when they have the opportunity to

866
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 3: provide aid them electing to do so. You know, going

867
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 3: back to Hakumba, when people were out there and they

868
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 3: had nothing, They weren't being provided a sip of water

869
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 3: for days and days and days. Border patrol could have

870
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,839
Speaker 3: done that. If they are the emergency services they could

871
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 3: have provided emergency aid when it comes to a rescue

872
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 3: like this, they have the agency, they are the agency.

873
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 3: They have the agency to deprioritize processing somebody for apprehension

874
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 3: and prioritizing rescue, and they chose not to do it.

875
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 3: Like time and time again, we see these situations and

876
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 3: I think, like when you know, before we started recording

877
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 3: and you asked, like, what's the thing that like we

878
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 3: want to talk about that doesn't often get talked about,

879
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 3: And I think it's this. I think it's the It's

880
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,399
Speaker 3: not just like the surveillance and the patrolling and all

881
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 3: of that stuff that to humanizes migrants, but like when

882
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 3: they're in danger, they're regarded as less than human by

883
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 3: the because the only agency that's out there to help

884
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 3: them is like the reason that they're in danger in

885
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 3: the first place. So we have come across multiple search

886
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 3: and rescues and that aren't migrant related, just being out

887
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 3: in the desert where either a US citizen or in

888
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 3: one instance, a tourist was lost in the desert, and

889
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:04,720
Speaker 3: they're response is night and day when there's a migrant

890
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 3: that's lost and we are calling for assistance, you know,

891
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 3: any kind of can a search be initiated. Can we

892
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 3: get like the response is so blase and minimal, and

893
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 3: there's no accounting, there's no holding them accountable for acting

894
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 3: or failing to act right, and it's blatant, like and

895
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 3: I think that's the thing that like the general public

896
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 3: that isn't involved in this work like should know about

897
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 3: how cruel it is and how little the response is

898
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 3: when somebody is lost, when they're dying, when they're dead,

899
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 3: like us having to call the coroner repeatedly to have

900
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 3: children's bones picked up. That would not happen if that

901
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 3: child was not presumed migrant. So this is like we

902
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 3: have story after story after story of like situations like

903
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 3: this is just one tragedy, but there's a lot of

904
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:08,879
Speaker 3: could have, should have, would have like on the end

905
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 3: of like eight organizations that we carry, And it doesn't

906
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 3: seem to ever be like a shared weight with any

907
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 3: of the agencies that actually have the ability to respond

908
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 3: to this kind of thing in like an organized way.

909
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:24,879
Speaker 3: They don't care, they don't do anything about it.

910
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's like so much money spent on our border, right,

911
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 1: Like I remember in Houcumber, I was like sitting underneath

912
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: this thing for shade and then I like coming, Oh yeah,

913
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: just think us a million dollars, right that little trailer

914
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 1: with the solar panels that intercepts the signals, like, and

915
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: they didn't give these people a bottle of water, Like

916
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 1: all the water came from other people, from random San

917
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 1: Diego people who bought it, right, Like, and it's just

918
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: such a strange priority. Well that's strange. It's a cruel

919
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: and horrible priority choice. Right to prioritize is that kind

920
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: of like enforcement of a human lives like which are

921
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: being lost? And it's the same like you know, ever

922
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: reported in Arizona or a turn, I spend a lot

923
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: of time there. I spent a lot of time here,

924
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 1: reported in Texas a couple of times. Like, it's the

925
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: same all across the border, right, the priority is not

926
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: rescuing people. It's and it's not even particularly enforcing the

927
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: law as it's written. It's just stopping people coming here.

928
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 3: Selectively though, yeah, selectively because they do let a significant

929
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 3: amount of people through, Like even like in Hakumba, when

930
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 3: people that weren't familiar with this whole kind of like

931
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 3: smoke and mirror show of the border were coming and responding,

932
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 3: they were saying like, well, why are they letting them through?

933
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 3: Why is this open over here? Why is like the

934
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 3: amount of surveillance. You know, We've had people come out

935
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 3: of water drops and say like, oh, should we be

936
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 3: hiding the water?

937
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 2: Should we be doing this? And that?

938
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 3: Should we like they have eyes on the whole desert.

939
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, and.

940
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 3: It's they do there. The point is to stop people

941
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 3: from coming through, but not completely right is that labor

942
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 3: that's coming through?

943
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that.

944
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 3: They're selective and how much they like, you know, how

945
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 3: much the gasket is being opened and shut.

946
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and in different sectors at different times, like it

947
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: seems like things have done and even like, yeah, there

948
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: are The other thing I think that people who don't

949
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: live on the border don't realize is to what degree

950
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: every single person here, whether they give a shit or not,

951
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: is surveiled because they live near the border. Like yeah,

952
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: but we saw them twenty eighteen with a lot of

953
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 1: a lot of friends of mine who who can't go

954
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: to Mexico anymore, right, who have flagged passports. Yeah you too, Yeah,

955
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: so many people I know. I yeah, I don't know

956
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 1: how I went over return at that time, but I

957
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: guess managed to avoid it. But yeah, it's it's it's that.

958
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 1: And then like I have been in the middle of

959
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 1: nowhere in the desert and found cameras, surveillance towers, right

960
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 1: like stuff that would not be the Constitution is largely irrelevant,

961
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 1: but like there wouldn't be legal or just like unjustifiable

962
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:21,680
Speaker 1: anywhere else, and like this spans from here to like

963
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 1: our Otume friends in Arizona to Texas. Right like, if

964
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: you live on the border, like or any within one

965
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 1: hundred miles of the border, right, the border can come

966
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 1: to you. It doesn't matter if you care or not.

967
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you consider yourself to be like

968
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: an immigrant to the US, or if you've sort of

969
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 1: decided that doesn't apply to you or you don't care

970
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: about those people. Like then it doesn't matter that surveillance

971
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 1: still impacts you, and often it impacts like our indigenous friends,

972
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: right like like my myome friends Kumii friends had their

973
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: graveyards bulldos to build the wall. And yeah, even if

974
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 1: you don't even if you think the war is great,

975
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: that your cell phone is still there through distinctray down.

976
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 3: I know it's wild, Like how much people who are

977
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 3: like very you know, right wing anti like you know,

978
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 3: pro like freedom and all this stuff, like will very

979
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 3: readily give up those freedoms and in exchange for like

980
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 3: constant surveillance, like if it justifies the means of like

981
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 3: you know, their big try or like whatever, like their

982
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 3: worldview is like they're they're suddenly like very pro border patrol,

983
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 3: very pro cop very true. Well that's like in direct

984
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 3: conflict with like everything else that they're saying.

985
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 1: Right, but yeah, it's freedom for who I guess.

986
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, well also goes with the same people are saying, well, well,

987
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 2: not breaking the law and then what do you have

988
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 2: to do about Yeah, well everything starts at the border.

989
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 2: So the surveillance, the facial recognition, the plate scanners, all

990
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 2: that stuff started the border. And now we see that

991
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:56,200
Speaker 2: just recently, like the San Diego City Council approved to

992
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 2: have the like the street like eras and all that

993
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:02,160
Speaker 2: kind of stuff, the lamps and all those you know,

994
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 2: one hundreds of cameras that are going to be out

995
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 2: there like that same type of technology, and like, well,

996
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,280
Speaker 2: if you're not breaking the law, it's like okay, we'll

997
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 2: give a little bit of time until you're not breaking

998
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 2: a law, and then like stuff still happens. I mean,

999
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 2: that's that's how you know things. You know Snowball.

1000
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, Shortly after we finished talking about why San

1001
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: Diego's lamp posts are also spies, my internet once again died.

1002
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 1: So that's what we're going to end it today. It's

1003
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 1: already been a long episode. But what I would like

1004
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 1: you all to know is that you can find Border

1005
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:43,280
Speaker 1: Kindness online. You can find them on Instagram. You can

1006
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 1: find James there Brolo el Cordero prot to be able

1007
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 1: to work out how to spell that, and you can

1008
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: find them on Facebook, and you can find them on Instagram,

1009
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,240
Speaker 1: and you can pretty much find them anywhere you go

1010
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: on the Internet by searching border Kindness and like jameson

1011
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 1: they in his I'm looking at his Instagram profile right now,

1012
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 1: it's Brolo el Cordero. I guess b r O l

1013
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 1: O e l c O r d E r O.

1014
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 1: James has a wish list, an Amazon wish list, so

1015
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 1: if you if you're not close to San Diego, then

1016
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: you can you can just click on there and buy

1017
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 1: them something. I'm sure you could collect donations and send

1018
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: those as well. So there are a lot of different

1019
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: ways you could help. But I hope you all enjoyed this.

1020
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 1: If you're in town and you want to help, go

1021
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: hike with them, and you can reach out to them

1022
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 1: on social media as well, and I'm sure they'd be

1023
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:37,920
Speaker 1: happy to hear from you. Thanks so much for listening. Goodbye.

1024
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 2: It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

1025
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1026
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 2: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

1027
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

1028
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 3: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated

1029
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 3: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources.

1030
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.