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Speaker 1: The coin Bureau Podcast is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Financial privacy is should be a right and not a privilege, because,

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Speaker 1: you know, just because I don't want you or you know,

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Speaker 1: a bank or a government, just because I don't want

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Speaker 1: people to see what I'm spending, that doesn't automatically mean

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Speaker 1: that I'm doing anything illegal. Welcome everyone to the coin

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Speaker 1: Bureau Podcast. Last week, Mike and I started talking about

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Speaker 1: the cash lest society, and as happens so often, we

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Speaker 1: just couldn't stop. So this week we are revisiting that

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Speaker 1: for part two of our episode on the decline of

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Speaker 1: cash and what can we do about it. Let's cash

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Speaker 1: is obviously inherently low tech, and Brett Scott in his

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Speaker 1: book as a lovely quote about it, which I'll read,

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Speaker 1: quote cash it remains a bug in the system, standing

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Speaker 1: in the way of the fusion between finance and tech.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's they, as I said, if you're a

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Speaker 1: fintech app, cash is useless to you, so you know

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Speaker 1: it's in it's in their interest to try and to

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Speaker 1: try and weanness off it. And nowadays, as we discussed earlier,

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Speaker 1: we have so fintech has grown massively. We we have

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Speaker 1: these payment apps. We have these challenger banks, you know,

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Speaker 1: the things like the Manzo and Starling that only exists online.

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Speaker 1: They have no physical presence whatsoever. And then we have

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Speaker 1: all these other forms of digital payments and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: we have that here in the West if you like. Um,

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Speaker 1: we have the likes of PayPal, which is massive, hundreds

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Speaker 1: of millions of views of patoon. In India, there's Apple Pay,

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Speaker 1: there's Google Pay. That's all these sorts of things. However,

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Speaker 1: much more scary are the likes of Alipay and we

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Speaker 1: chat pain, which are Chinese and I think between them

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Speaker 1: account for you know, almost all of the Chinese population. One.

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Speaker 1: You know, you either used one, you're going to be

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Speaker 1: some remote farmer yeah who is? Or a wager yeah,

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Speaker 1: in which case you've got You've got much much bigger

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Speaker 1: problems is about how you pay for things. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: of course yeah we as as we discussed earlier, we've

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Speaker 1: got this idea that things like klarer now springing up

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Speaker 1: this by now pay later. I saw that for a brunch.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, I don't want to pay for branch now.

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Speaker 1: I want to pay later, which is just it's sort

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Speaker 1: of it's kind of it's to me is almost as

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Speaker 1: bad as kind of the wonger like these payday loan companies,

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Speaker 1: these extortionate um easy money, yeah, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: directed at people who don't have money, may need some

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Speaker 1: cash quickly, legal loan sharking. Yeah, it's the absolute opposite.

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Speaker 1: You know, your little boy when when when he gets older,

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Speaker 1: you'll be wanting to tell him about money and all

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Speaker 1: this sort of stuff. It's the absolute opposite of what

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Speaker 1: you tell them, is it's like, oh, yeah, don't yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't ever pay for anything up front. You get it

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Speaker 1: on credit, get it on tick, you know to a degree. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well yeah, but if you are financially responsible and you're

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Speaker 1: able to get on get on credit on a zero

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Speaker 1: percent interests you know, yeah, you know, if you can,

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Speaker 1: you can spread it. But if it's interests or something

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Speaker 1: crazy like that. Yeah. And and if you if you

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Speaker 1: are paying for brunch in installments, cook at home, yeah

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Speaker 1: for good. Yeah, if you're if you're having to pay

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Speaker 1: for brunch, if you're having to defer the pay paying

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Speaker 1: for a meal, chances are you need to take a long,

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Speaker 1: hard look. But I think it's also you know, it's

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Speaker 1: an entertainment thing. You know, these tickets and it's but

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Speaker 1: it's still I'm not telling people how to spend their money. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course, not financial advice. Glad I could cheehorn net

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Speaker 1: in there. Um. Also you could consider the platforms like

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Speaker 1: Uber and Amazon. You you know, they have cashlessness at

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Speaker 1: their very core. There at no point do they want

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Speaker 1: anything the amount you spend on Amazon without even thinking

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Speaker 1: about it, because it's not real money. It's just button

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Speaker 1: tap tap. And sometimes things are not as cheap as

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Speaker 1: you think they are on Amazon because there is a

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Speaker 1: rush and people wanting to buy X whatever or you know,

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Speaker 1: it's you go online, you search for five minutes and

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Speaker 1: you found it a hundred quid cheaper, twenty quid cheaper.

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Speaker 1: It's the convenience means you just buy it anyway. Yeah whatever, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not real money. So yeah, so all of these,

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Speaker 1: all of these massively powerful entities because you know, these

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Speaker 1: these these are some of the biggest companies in the

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Speaker 1: world that we're talking about here, huge reach, you know,

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Speaker 1: global kind of reach, and they want to get rid

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Speaker 1: of cash because it is not compatible with their business models.

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Speaker 1: You know, they will not make so much money if

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Speaker 1: they if they interact with cash, you will own nothing

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Speaker 1: and you will like it and be happy that. So

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Speaker 1: let's talk we we touched earlier on the question of demographics,

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Speaker 1: you know, the question of what sorts of people use cash,

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Speaker 1: what sorts of people are impacted most by the by

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Speaker 1: the onset of cashlessness. So let's just talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about that, because cash use is certainly more prevalent

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Speaker 1: amongst certain groups, and older people are the obvious example.

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Speaker 1: Now that isn't to say that every single person above

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Speaker 1: a certain age will only deal in will only deal

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Speaker 1: in cash, of course not. But older people, you know,

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Speaker 1: they tend to stick to what they know and trust.

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Speaker 1: You read these read these stories of older people just

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Speaker 1: struggling with I mean, you know, modern life in general,

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Speaker 1: that's so confusing. The Internet and mobile phones and all

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Speaker 1: this sort of stuff is really really confusing. But there

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Speaker 1: were some like really kind of heartbreaking stories that I

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Speaker 1: read about when you know, during the pandemic of the

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Speaker 1: people being unable to spend their cash, of not knowing

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Speaker 1: how do I make an online payment? How do I

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Speaker 1: pay online? I don't know, it's not I'm not familiar.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how this thing. I can't even turn

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Speaker 1: this thing on. And you know that that forces them

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Speaker 1: out of the system, and the obvious you know, the

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Speaker 1: obvious of sponsores. Well, everyone can learn and it's like, no,

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Speaker 1: they shouldn't have to, you know, this is still this

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Speaker 1: cash is legal tender. They should be able to use it.

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Speaker 1: Allowances should be made for them. Now. The other the

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Speaker 1: other group of people affected are generally poorer people as well.

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Speaker 1: They are statistically much more likely to use cash. And

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of reasons around this. Um, it

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Speaker 1: might just be distrust of the system in general. Lots

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Speaker 1: of people feel very marginal especially those from ethnic ethnic

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Speaker 1: minority backgrounds, often feel marginalized by society. They have they

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Speaker 1: don't trust authority, they don't trust the police, you know,

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Speaker 1: the government in general as much as you know, as

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Speaker 1: as much as middle class white people like us might. Um. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there might there might be. They might have sort of

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Speaker 1: reasons for you know, anti anti authoritarian reasons to or

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Speaker 1: mistrust of authority, to to to keep you know, to

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Speaker 1: kind of transact outside the system, if you m There

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Speaker 1: are these budgeting concerns that we talked about and that

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Speaker 1: are now playing a role in in the kind of

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Speaker 1: you know, resurgence of cash here in the UK, as

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Speaker 1: we've touched on if you're spending physical cash you you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's yeah, it's yeah, it's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like when when when we were students and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: it was like you kind of you'd have to go

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Speaker 1: to the bank to see how much money you had

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Speaker 1: left because it wasn't an app on the phone, and

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Speaker 1: it was scary. Yeah, and you know, you go and

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Speaker 1: you'd be like and it's all it's you know, it's

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Speaker 1: that's the kind of like you don't need to do that.

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Speaker 1: When you've got it in your wallet. You can open

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Speaker 1: it up and it's a little less. It's it's more

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Speaker 1: of a regular check on my financial It's a reality Jake,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. You're like, oh, well, maybe i'll have one more.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing is I'm going on, banks are crooks.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when you'd get you'd go over your

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Speaker 1: you do go into your overdraft or something like that

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Speaker 1: for a few pounds over what you could actually were

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Speaker 1: allowed to and then you'd be hit with a fine.

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Speaker 1: And when that fine comes in and it's a fifty

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Speaker 1: quid fine for going two pounds seventy five of your

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Speaker 1: hundred pounds thing and you're you know, that's that's a

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Speaker 1: big chunk of what you've got that week. And then

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Speaker 1: often that would push you back into the thing and

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Speaker 1: another fine. And there was a big there was a

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Speaker 1: big hua about it here, and they kind of made

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Speaker 1: that illegal, didn't. But but if you're if you're poor,

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Speaker 1: like a student or someone who's who's not on a

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Speaker 1: regular wage or on the gig economy, and you've got

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Speaker 1: you want to have cash because you can't go into

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Speaker 1: your overdraft and you can't have that fifty pounds taken

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Speaker 1: from you the overdraft charge. Yeah, there's so many reasons

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Speaker 1: that to to want to avoid the banking sector. Um

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Speaker 1: and let's face it, a lot of people don't can't

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Speaker 1: get access the bank. The unbankable. Was one of the

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Speaker 1: great things about cryptos. It does provide banking to two

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Speaker 1: people who may not have a traditional bank account. That's yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's one of the that's that is one

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Speaker 1: of the you know, the things that so many crypto

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Speaker 1: projects are trying to do, you know, to bring you know,

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Speaker 1: to bring sort of banking services, to bring that sort

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Speaker 1: of these things we take for granted to people who

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Speaker 1: just don't have them. For whatever reason. But I think

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Speaker 1: we've talked about this a little bit before. But I

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Speaker 1: mean there are people, there are lots of people here

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Speaker 1: in the UK who don't have access to banking services.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think it can be quite

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Speaker 1: difficult if you're coming out of prison or something like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're looking at me. But if you're if

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Speaker 1: you're if you've emigrated over here, I know that Australians

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Speaker 1: used to have quite a bit of fast trying to

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Speaker 1: get a bank account over here. Again, if you're homeless, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you need a registered address and you get stuck in

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Speaker 1: You get caught in a vicious circle, don't you. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: if you don't have if you don't have a fixed address,

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Speaker 1: then you can't get a job. But you know, if

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Speaker 1: you can't get you know, if you can job, you

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Speaker 1: can't have Or if you've got a job, you need

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Speaker 1: a bank account so they can pay you. But if

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Speaker 1: you don't have an address, you don't have a bank account,

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Speaker 1: so they can't pay you. And it's like it's just

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Speaker 1: this kind of Kafka esque nightmare. They can get sucked

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Speaker 1: into um And another one, another one that I saw

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Speaker 1: was the issue of domestic violence as well. You know,

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Speaker 1: financial control is a big weapon in the kind of

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Speaker 1: in the abusers arsenal, if you like, because you know,

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Speaker 1: people they can control that they can control the person

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Speaker 1: they're abusing, spending, and so cash is you know, let's

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Speaker 1: say you're you know, let's say you're a woman who's

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Speaker 1: being abused by her her partner, her husband, say, part

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Speaker 1: of that abuse could take the form of him taking

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Speaker 1: control of her bank account, seeing what she's spending and where,

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Speaker 1: keeping taps on her. So for her, cash might be

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Speaker 1: the only way she has any sort of freedom. Um,

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Speaker 1: So there are there are huge amounts, and I should say,

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Speaker 1: like domestic violence just soared during COVID, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's it's shockingly high here in the UK and and

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Speaker 1: elsewhere as well. And it's a it's a kind of

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Speaker 1: hidden you know. I think it's very much a hidden

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Speaker 1: epidemic because it doesn't it doesn't sort of bust out

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Speaker 1: to the surface very often. But yeah, my point being

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Speaker 1: that there are so many there are so many roles,

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Speaker 1: There are so many people for whom cash is flying

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Speaker 1: in a lot of cases. So as I said before,

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Speaker 1: those of us who are leading comfortable and relatively secure,

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Speaker 1: financially secure middle class lives are the kind of we're

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Speaker 1: not really all that affected by the trend towards cash lessness.

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Speaker 1: We I think tend yet, Yeah, we tend to see

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Speaker 1: the convenience of it. And for you and me, it's

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Speaker 1: perhaps like, oh no, yeah, I know, you know, I

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Speaker 1: know that this isn't going to tip me, that paying

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Speaker 1: by card isn't going to tip me into my overdraft unwittingly.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm quite happy to just tap and go

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Speaker 1: tap and go, beat beat, and you just PingER out

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Speaker 1: like a kid at festival. Yeah, like a kid at

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Speaker 1: like a kid at a cash last festival. Um, but

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Speaker 1: there are there are poorer, vulnerable, more marginalized people who

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Speaker 1: don't have that luxury, and for them cash is vital. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think before we go, before we look at where

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Speaker 1: this whole idea of cashalist society could be leading to,

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Speaker 1: we should have one more quick break, so I'll see

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Speaker 1: you in a minute. Welcome back, folks to the final

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Speaker 1: parts of this discussion about casualist about the casualist society,

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Speaker 1: and now we're going to look at where this idea

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Speaker 1: of casualist society is all leading to could go So

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Speaker 1: we've thought about cash lest society in largely corporate terms

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Speaker 1: so far. You know, power being handed to banks, fintech companies,

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Speaker 1: payment platforms, et cetera, and how they are financially motivated

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Speaker 1: to to ween us off cash as much as possible.

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Speaker 1: But it's the state that could prove to be a

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Speaker 1: much bigger and more dangerous player in the future when

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Speaker 1: it comes to cash lessness. And the big threat here

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Speaker 1: is from what is known as central bank digital currencies

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Speaker 1: or CBDCs. I've mentioned these before, but let's we'll we'll

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Speaker 1: run back over what they are for for those not

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Speaker 1: quite up to speed. So cb d c s are

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Speaker 1: basically digital representations of fiat currencies created, controlled and operated

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Speaker 1: by state central banks. And basically, you know, CBDCs are

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Speaker 1: the reaction of central central banks saw Bitcoin emerge and

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Speaker 1: I've seen the crypto industry grow and evolve, and they

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Speaker 1: are not happy about it. They are scared, and central

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Speaker 1: bank digital currencies are their reaction to it because they

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Speaker 1: have seen this and gone there is some clever tech

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Speaker 1: here we can that we must, we need to, we

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Speaker 1: need to take them, take this bull by the horns, because,

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Speaker 1: let's face it, the last thing the state wants to see.

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Speaker 1: And I think this is I think this is probably

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Speaker 1: fair to say if really any nation state, isn't it

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Speaker 1: that the last thing any nation state really wants to

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Speaker 1: see is a monetary system outside of its control, because

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Speaker 1: apart from Ol Salvador, which is yeah, but I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, El Salvador has embraced, has embraced bitcoin, has

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Speaker 1: made bitcoin legal tender, but it's still it's still transact

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Speaker 1: with the US dollar. So what and these, you know,

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Speaker 1: these are the idea of a CBDC is a digital

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Speaker 1: currency issued, as the name would suggest, by the central

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Speaker 1: bank of a of a country, and these present a

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Speaker 1: system of financial oversight and control that could go way

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Speaker 1: beyond what the private sector is currently capable of. Um

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think one of the problems with

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Speaker 1: the with the growth of casiusness itself, you know, as

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Speaker 1: we all become so much, so much more familiar with

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Speaker 1: just tapping and going with not using cash, is that

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Speaker 1: a central bank digital currency will be a much easier

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Speaker 1: idea for us to accept because we you know, we

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Speaker 1: might barely notice it, whereas if we were all transacting

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Speaker 1: with cash and it was suddenly like, right, you all

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Speaker 1: need to use this electronic money that is issued by

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Speaker 1: the Bank of England. That would be a much harder

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Speaker 1: you know, a much harder sell, wouldn't you know to

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Speaker 1: the average person in the street. Um, so yeah, this

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Speaker 1: would be you know, a central bank digital currency would

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Speaker 1: would work basically like this. So rather than rather than

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Speaker 1: us having an account with a commercial bank like Barclay's, Halifax,

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Speaker 1: Lloyds whatever it is here, Chase, yeah, wells Fargo whatever,

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Speaker 1: you know, we would have a we would all have

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Speaker 1: an account with our relative central banks. So you and

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Speaker 1: I say, would have an account with the Bank of England.

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Speaker 1: And where would the politicians stash all their money? Though?

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Speaker 1: What what? I'm sure bank would I'm sure there would

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Speaker 1: still be plenty of offshore tax havens. But well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's an interesting question because you know, everyone

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Speaker 1: would be everyone would be affected by this, and this

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Speaker 1: is partly why I think basically, you know, most central

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Speaker 1: banks around the world are certainly a growing number are

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of research into into CBDCs. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's as many people in within the crypto industry are

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Speaker 1: now saying CBDCs are inevitable. They are coming. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: in some cases they're already here because well we'll look

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Speaker 1: at that. We'll look at a few examples in a minute.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so you know, our spending data would essentially

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Speaker 1: be handed directly to the state if we have an

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Speaker 1: account with a central bank. And it also, I mean,

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Speaker 1: as you can imagine, this has potential profound, potentially profound

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Speaker 1: implications for commercial banks too, because you know, the state.

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Speaker 1: In theory, the state could be like, well, we don't

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Speaker 1: need to bail you out anymore, bail ourselves. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: just yeah, we issue the money. We'll just issue it

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Speaker 1: straight to the consumer, and we don't need to collaborate

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Speaker 1: put the middleman. Yeah, and all that data, you know,

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Speaker 1: all that data would flood back to the central bank,

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Speaker 1: and that you know that from the state's point of view,

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Speaker 1: this would be you know this this gives there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of benefits, aren't there. You know, they've got more oversight,

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Speaker 1: they've got more control. It also gives them, you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of way to curb potentially

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Speaker 1: curb the power the increasing power of these tech companies

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Speaker 1: as well, because you know some of these companies, you know,

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Speaker 1: the likes of Apple and Amazon. Now you know they're

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Speaker 1: so big that's you know, if they keep growing, they're

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Speaker 1: going to be more powerful than I mean they already are. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Apple is richer and more powerful and quite a lot

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Speaker 1: of nation states, which is just you know, mind bending.

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Speaker 1: Really And I take you back. I you know this

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Speaker 1: book snow Crash. I was talking about this, this sci

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Speaker 1: fi this sci fi novel by Neil Stevenson that gave

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Speaker 1: us the term the metaverse. It's it's so good on

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Speaker 1: that you know, this idea of corporations have taken over

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Speaker 1: everything and you and I'm you know, I'm rereading it

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Speaker 1: at the moment and it's just like, yeah, this this

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Speaker 1: is not hard to imagine. So the state itself has

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Speaker 1: has you know, a vested interest in not only issuing

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Speaker 1: its own but you know, the clues in the name

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Speaker 1: it's a central bank digital currency. Is there an argument

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Speaker 1: that's saying, okay, cool, well, the central bank digital currency

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Speaker 1: at least that the governments are elected as opposed to

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Speaker 1: corporation depends on the government. That is true. Yeah, um so,

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, this is a lot of the a

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Speaker 1: lot of alarm, you know, just to just before we

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Speaker 1: before we look at the big example here, which is

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Speaker 1: obviously China, but obviously a lot of alarm was caused

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Speaker 1: by Facebook's attempt to set up its Libra currency back

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Speaker 1: in back. I touched on this in a previous episode,

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Speaker 1: but this was a big wake up call for governments

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Speaker 1: because they were like, hang on a sec if if

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Speaker 1: private companies start issuing their own digital currency, it's the

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Speaker 1: implications for this are massive. This isn't a gift card

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Speaker 1: we're talking about here, This is not a gift So yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and Brett Scott talks a lot about has some

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Speaker 1: interesting stuff on Facebook and Libra in in in the

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Speaker 1: Cloud Money Book. But yeah, so you know, it's governments

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Speaker 1: are governments are waking up to the idea of of CBDCs.

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Speaker 1: And obviously this is tied up with cash lessness as well.

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Speaker 1: So the nation that obviously everyone is watching in this

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Speaker 1: regardless China. Now, yeah, the Chinese government is by is,

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Speaker 1: by no stretch of the imagination, elected by anyone. I

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Speaker 1: mean on paper, they'll tell you otherwise, Um, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean the Chinese state is all powerful. It's increasingly

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Speaker 1: embracing digital networks for population surveillance and control. Like I say,

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Speaker 1: virtually all Chinese use either we Chat pay or Allie pay,

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Speaker 1: or both, and it is already trialing its CBDC um

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Speaker 1: and it has been for I think about a year now.

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Speaker 1: And there are fears that this CBDC, this currency that

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Speaker 1: the center at the People's Bank of China issues directly

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Speaker 1: to citizens, will eventually become an integral part of China's

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Speaker 1: social credit system. And I mean, this is just so

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Speaker 1: god damn dystopian. It's scary. Um, this social credit system

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Speaker 1: with you know, this is a system whereby people can

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Speaker 1: be punished for any number of infractions. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: not just it's not just it's not just a criminal

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Speaker 1: justice system or anything like that. It's you know, it's

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Speaker 1: social control from you know, right from the ground, you know,

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Speaker 1: right from right from on high. Um. There was an

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Speaker 1: interesting Business Insider article that I read about it. It

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Speaker 1: was put out last year. Quote the exact methodology talking

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Speaker 1: about China's social credit system. The exact methodology is a secret,

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Speaker 1: but examples of infractions include bad driving, smoking in non

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Speaker 1: smoking zones, buying too many video games, and posting fake

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Speaker 1: news online, specifically about terrorist attacks or airport security. Those

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Speaker 1: are all my favorite things to do. Well, yeah, other

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Speaker 1: I thought of you, Mike when I read this. Other

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Speaker 1: potential punishable offenses include spending too long playing video games,

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Speaker 1: wasting money on frivolous purchases, and posting on social media

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Speaker 1: the Western Do you hear that that's then coming for you? Um? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And punishments for this can include you can be you

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Speaker 1: can have you can be banned from traveling, you can

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Speaker 1: have restrictions on your movement, slow internet speeds. Apparently I'm

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Speaker 1: already being punished. And yeah, which I mean for many

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Speaker 1: of us, would be a fake worse than death, confiscation

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Speaker 1: of pets. I mean, I'd like to see the state

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Speaker 1: come and try and take zolar off you. That would

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Speaker 1: be that would be uh, that's at least take So

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Speaker 1: will this speed up my internet? If? Can we do

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Speaker 1: a deal here? Take the dog? The dog speed up

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Speaker 1: the internet? Um yeah. And it's not hard to see

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Speaker 1: how a CBDC, how the Chinese CBDC strengthens the system

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Speaker 1: like this iviasurably. And you know, you can easily imagine

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Speaker 1: the examples, can't you. It's like, right, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: straight away you're fined. There's no there's no legal process

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Speaker 1: involved at all. It's like there's mad Mike. He's loitering,

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Speaker 1: he's is that two video games he's brought nowhere? Right?

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Speaker 1: I mean the greatest example of this is kind of

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Speaker 1: like Horme Owners Association, right, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: like the power hungry nous of that, And it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like no one wants to be involved in any

401
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Speaker 1: of the actual nonsense that go into it. But then

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Speaker 1: you get one or two people who are a bit

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Speaker 1: more uh their program that way to to sort of

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Speaker 1: grab power, and yeah, and it's cool, right, well your

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Speaker 1: bin is actually out and then that's a fine. And

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Speaker 1: it's just kind of like this is it's that on

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Speaker 1: a macro scale, because I know, talking about how China

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Speaker 1: is and how we are sets off alarm bells and

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Speaker 1: a lot of people's heads going, this guy, come on,

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Speaker 1: we're not We're not going to be that far. But

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Speaker 1: it's it's when the when the shift happens, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be quick. Yeah, and well it's well relatively quick. It's

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be it's gonna be sort of encroaching a

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Speaker 1: lot quicker than you think. And it's gonna it may

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Speaker 1: not be noticeable. It's going to be little little changes here,

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Speaker 1: little changes there, and then you know, if you fall

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Speaker 1: foul of the wrong person, you're you're going to be

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Speaker 1: your dog's gonna be like it's not It really isn't

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Speaker 1: hard to imagine though, you know, how this how this

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Speaker 1: sort of thing could grow and spread from yeah, as

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Speaker 1: you say, like from maybe a very small you know,

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Speaker 1: very very small, very you know, localized um system, but

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Speaker 1: gradually spreading nationally. So you know, to to encompass or

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00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: should I say, to encompass more and more of your life.

425
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean it might be that you know, okay,

426
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 1: you left your bins out late, that's a fine, and

427
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 1: then suddenly you find that you've left your bins out

428
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 1: late one too many times and that's had a knock

429
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: on effect and that means, oh, you you know you're

430
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: not eligible for this anymore. Well, you mean I can't

431
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: get a credit card because I've committed these you know, infractions.

432
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: What if my bins got to do well? And the

433
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: other thing is like you kind of see things like

434
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: this in history, so you see, um, we were talking

435
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: about this before when you know high and tress rates,

436
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 1: like people sort of blaming uh, certain certain sectors of

437
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: society for things, um, you know, cost of living going

438
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: through the roof people being squeezed umu, the rich getting

439
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: extremely richer, the disparity between the financial elites and the

440
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: everyone else. Yeah, and then you know, you've in a history.

441
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: I've seen this before and it's okay, cool with people

442
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: are snitching on each other and you know, there's there's

443
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: it's it's a bit more okay cool if you don't

444
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: agree with what we're saying, but we will sort that out.

445
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: And this is it's just setting it up for something

446
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: like that to happen. And unless we sort of at

447
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: least try, Yeah, you can, it's perfectly possible. As you say, history,

448
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: history has shown that you can sleep walk into these things.

449
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: That's that's a succinct way of saying. Yeah, no, it's

450
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: it's it's very true. It's very true. And I mean

451
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 1: I it is tempting to think that we, you know,

452
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: here in the UK and elsewhere, are a long way

453
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: from the sort of hell that you know. China is,

454
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 1: frankly from everything that I've heard. You can look at

455
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: it like, so you've got things like the wind rush

456
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: generation and things like that where people have been here

457
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: for for decades and it's okay, you're not actually, yeah,

458
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: it happens to people. Yeah, things like it's computer says no.

459
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 1: And this is something that's happened within our generation to

460
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: a certain sect of people. Oh yeah, you're welcome to

461
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: come over here. Blah blah blah. Oh we've lost the papers,

462
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 1: so we can't prove that you are actually over here.

463
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 1: You have to leave in people being deported over there,

464
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: and the and the political winds have changed somewhere now

465
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: you know. Now, Yeah, sorry, it's you're on the wrong

466
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: side of history. Yeah, yeah, it's it's absolutely it's disgraceful

467
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: what happens. But it's, as you say, it's perfectly possible,

468
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 1: even even in a supposedly liberal country like like Britain. Um.

469
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: And yeah, that the treatment of of of the wind

470
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: Russ generation is a prime example, isn't it. People who've

471
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: basically been in the UK for most gave vives their

472
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: lives in the Caribbeans, come over here for a yeah,

473
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: British citizens, British citizens, and then having that sitizaive route

474
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: because sent back sent back to somewhere in the Caribbean

475
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: they were lasting when they were three. Yeah, yeah, so yeah,

476
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: I mean my yeah, I guess the point here is

477
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: that this this form of this form of state control,

478
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: this form of state overreach, is often a lot closer

479
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: than we think. And CBDCs are a big, big part

480
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: of this. And as I said, CBDCs are inevitable. They

481
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: are coming our way. Lots of China is you know,

482
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: China is the big example. India is getting close to

483
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: rolling out the digital rupee. Sweden is you know, the

484
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: most cashless country out there is trialing the e krona,

485
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 1: Nigeria as a digital Nia, the Bahamas as the sand dollar. Um, yeah,

486
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: it's interesting, interesting name. But yeah, so the this this

487
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: form of this form of money is coming and the

488
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: Bank of England and the Federal Reserve are both the

489
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,239
Speaker 1: official line is that they are, you know, looking into it,

490
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 1: and you can bet your bottom digital dollars they are.

491
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: But you can bet your son. Yeah it's true. And

492
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: so you know, we have to be we have to

493
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: be prepared. And but as the point, the point we're

494
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: making here isn't it is that cashlessness, losing touch with cold, hard,

495
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 1: physical cash is a big part of how this system

496
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: is going to you know, it's going to come into

497
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: play because it makes us, it makes us used to

498
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,959
Speaker 1: the idea that our money doesn't have to physically exist,

499
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,479
Speaker 1: and that we can just tap and go whatever. We're

500
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break there, but we will

501
00:28:46,400 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: be back after a word from our sponsors. Let's finish

502
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: this off. Let's ask the question, so if is cash

503
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: dead and if not, what can we do? So going

504
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: back to what I was saying earlier, you know, cash

505
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: is definitely under attack, but as I learned putting this together, um,

506
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: it's a lot. It's coming to be a lot harder

507
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: to kill than we thought it was. And that is

508
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,239
Speaker 1: that that should give us heart, but it shouldn't make

509
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: us complacent because there are powerful vested interests corporate and political,

510
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: that are you know, that are trying together that have

511
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: cash in this sites. Yeah. Yeah, it's being eroded by

512
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: deliberate action by banks, by global payment networks, by the

513
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: fintech industry, and by governments. Now I should also say,

514
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: to be fair, in the course of my research, I

515
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: did find that there were a few governments who have

516
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: a few central banks as well, who've sort of recognized

517
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: actually that cutting out cash does actually as a threat

518
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: to many people in society. So you know, it's again

519
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: it's more the picture is a bit more nuanced than

520
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: than it may first appear. But you know, the the

521
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: the attraction for the private sector and the state is obvious.

522
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: Cash very much stands in the way of profit and power.

523
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, not only it's it's not

524
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: we should also acknowledge that it's not only overreached by

525
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: corporations and governments and things like that that have eroded cash.

526
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: It's also apathy on our part. And I think Mikey,

527
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: you me especially are are guilty of that to a

528
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: certain extent. We're guilty of going yep, much more convenient.

529
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: I don't say I don't have a need. I don't

530
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: see an immediate need for cash. Therefore I just won't

531
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: bother with it. I never I never took a sort

532
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: of conscious decision to use less cash. I just I

533
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: just started using my carden. I just don't you know, um,

534
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: but that we should be aware of that because cash

535
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: is cash is something uh you know, it's it's it's

536
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: it's democratic. Yeah, it is a freedom having cash, having

537
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: the ability to spend cash is a freedom, and it's

538
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: being taken away from us, and we are, at the

539
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: same time, in many cases, willingly giving it up. Um.

540
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, we should we should begin

541
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: to think differently about cash. Now. I have, of course

542
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: to mention crypto as well, because crypto can give us

543
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: away to keep money out of the hands of the

544
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: finance sector, away from banks is centralized form of cash. Yeah,

545
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: bitcoin is the prime example. Yeah, but we should be

546
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: wary because crypto is not quite the silver bullet to

547
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: all this that we might want it because I mean,

548
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 1: let's say, let's let's let's face it, crypto that the

549
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: banking sector, the traditional finance industry is waking up to crypto.

550
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,719
Speaker 1: In many cases, it's co opting its technology. You know,

551
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: it's using block chain technology or you know what it

552
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: likes to it likes to say it's using blockchain technology. Actually,

553
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: you know that that sort of distributed ledger technology, which

554
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: is very different, so, you know, not decentralized. Not decentralized.

555
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: Now that's the important thing. Yeah, Yeah, decentralization is anathema

556
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: to to to these sorts of you know, to these

557
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: to the finance sector. And remember too that crypto transactions

558
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: are in the main a lot easier to track than cash.

559
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: Everything's up on the blockchain unless you use a privacy

560
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: coin like Minero, which is you know, a rabbit hole

561
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: I won't go down today, but you know that is

562
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: a that is an option for people you know, um,

563
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: wanting to wanting some degree of financial privacy. Yeah, most

564
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: crypto transactions are very very easy to track if you

565
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: have the right tools, and crypto tracking companies, blockchain analystics

566
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: companies are getting more and more powerful. They are working

567
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: much more closely with governments to do this and stuff.

568
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: So the idea, and I've said this many times on

569
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: this podcast and elsewhere, the idea that you can just

570
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: transact merrily, transact anonymously with crypto is is not right,

571
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: you know, is not true, So be aware of that.

572
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: It's also worth touching on stable coins as well, that

573
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: they are going to play a role in this in

574
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: some way. You know, stable coins are already kind of

575
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: getting into sort of sectors where you know, this this

576
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: this idea of where people have less access to traditional

577
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: forms of banking. There's some people have sort of speculated

578
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: that they might be able to fill a kind of

579
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: role in you know, in keeping money away from banks

580
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But remember a lot of stable coins,

581
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: certainly the big ones are highly centralized, and you know,

582
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: you can have access to those, you can have access

583
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: to your stable coin savings cut off at the drop

584
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: of a hat. So although cryptocurrency, although the technology that

585
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: it offers, you know, it does provide some sort of

586
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: some kind of pushback against banks and and governments, it's yeah,

587
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: it's not a silver bullet. And you know, to go

588
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: back to cash, it would be a great same shame

589
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: if cash was lost, many people, especially the most vulnerable

590
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: in society, who, let's face it, already have enough on

591
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: their plate, are going to suffer further exclusion, further hardship,

592
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: and all of our freedoms will be eroded to a

593
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: greater or lesser extent. And you know, financial privacy is

594
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: should be a right and not a privilege because you know,

595
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: just because I don't want you or you know, a

596
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: bank or a government, just because I don't want people

597
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: to see what I'm spending, that doesn't automatically mean that

598
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 1: I'm doing anything illegal. You know, if you make that assumption,

599
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: if you, if the assumption is that anyone you know, oh,

600
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: if you, if you, if you, if you're not doing

601
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: anything illegal, then you have nothing to hide. That is

602
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 1: a slippery slope. That's like saying Okay, cool. If you're

603
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: not doing anything illegal, you're not going show me your

604
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: what'sapp conversations? Yeah, exactly. You know, if you're not saying

605
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: anything wrong, yeah, show me what what you're saying. You

606
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: can say things that are wrong but are not illegal.

607
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: You can spend things that are some morally deemed as

608
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: not not right but are perfectly illegal. Yeah. Yeah, it's

609
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: it's it's basically no one's business but your own. And

610
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: and you know to say that, that I that argument.

611
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: If you're not doing anything illegal, you've got nothing to hide.

612
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: That is a slippery slope, and that slippery slope ends

613
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: up in China. That's where that slippery slope ends. So,

614
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: I mean, the question I guess that everyone's left with is,

615
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: you know, how do we fight back against the rise

616
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: of cashlessness. Well, really, I think the easiest thing you

617
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: can do is just try and use cash more, carry

618
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: some cash along with you and that you know, this

619
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: prompted me to go out earlier and get you know,

620
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: twenty pounds. It's not it's not a lot, it won't

621
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: it won't cover you know, a lot of spending, But

622
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: for me, that's a For me, that's a start. Three

623
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: minutes in a certain establishment. Well really three which how

624
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: long a song? Lass, isn't it? Um? Yeah, so that's

625
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: you know, don't give it. See cash. We should start

626
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: treating cash as the freedom that it is. It's a

627
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: freedom that can easily lost. And of course there are

628
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: benefits that we've talked about, aren't there, things like budgeting, um,

629
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: and you know, curbing impulse spending. Oh yeah, it's it's

630
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: so easy to Yeah, I'll just have that. It's actually no,

631
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: I don't need this tat, thank you very much. Um.

632
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: And you know Brett Scott in in this in this book,

633
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: he has he has some some more kind of you

634
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: know some it's more developed conclusions about why, you know,

635
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: how we can how cash can still play a part

636
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: in my lives. I won't give it away here because

637
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: it's Um. It's a fantastic book and I thoroughly recommend

638
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 1: people read it. I know you weren't. I was actually

639
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: thinking about not reading it, but getting going on Amazon

640
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: and behind the audible vision of it. Yeah, read it,

641
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: listen to it whatever. I think it's Yeah, I think

642
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,479
Speaker 1: it's available on as an audiobook. It's a fantasy cash.

643
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: But go to your local bookshold and pay cash for it.

644
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 1: It's it's terrific and it gives it goes into a

645
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: lot obviously a lot more detailed than we were able

646
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: to go to the day, especially about how the banking

647
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: industry works and how you know, how they're pushing back

648
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: against cash as it's absolutely fascinating. But you know, I

649
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: think to end this episode, you know, cash is about

650
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: human to human contact, it's about peer to peer and

651
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: I think it it taps into something age old and

652
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: if we and once we lose that freedom, we won't

653
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 1: get it back. So folks, my messages, you know, use

654
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: cash more, try and work some cash into your into

655
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: your daily life a bit more, and let's let's try

656
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: and keep this freedom. Also when when when the inevitable

657
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: switch comes put up a fire absolutely absolutely and actually

658
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: likes something. You know. One other thing that I don't

659
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: think we touched enough upon really was the fact that

660
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: if we all hook ourselves into this digital system, we

661
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 1: are really really vulnerable if something goes wrong. You know,

662
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: so if if if the power goes out, if the

663
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: power goes out tomorrow and stays out for any length

664
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: of time, anyone who's got a bit of cash on

665
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: them is going to be at a distinct advantage, not

666
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: as much as an advantage as someone who's got and

667
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: a mobile generator perhaps, But yeah, we are we are

668
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: the lives we lead now, certainly in a country like

669
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: the UK. You know, we're so vulnerable. We just think, oh,

670
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: nothing will ever happen. You know, the power will stay on,

671
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: these networks will keep running. You know, a data center

672
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: won't get blown up by a stray missile or anything

673
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: like that. We'll look pretty silly if something like that

674
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: ever does happen. And I think we should be we

675
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: should be wary of putting our hands, you know, putting

676
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: our society, our ability to transact with one another, into

677
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: the hands of something you know, we have no control

678
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: over and we don't really understand most of us. So

679
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: there we are cash lessness, the cash lest society. It

680
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: was Yeah, like I said, it was really interesting for

681
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: me to research this one. A lot of my preconceptions

682
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: were challenged. I can't recommend Brett Scott's book highly enough.

683
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: There's loads of other you know, there's loads of material

684
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: out there about the cash lest society. So and I

685
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: do encourage people to dig more into it. And I

686
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: hope I hope folks you found this is interesting to

687
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: listen to as I did to to research. That was

688
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: great cool. Bye bye, Thank you so much for listening

689
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: to the coin Bureau podcast. If you'd like to learn

690
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:52,280
Speaker 1: more about cryptocurrency, you can visit our YouTube channel at

691
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com forward slash coin Bureau. You can also

692
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: go to coin bureau dot com for loads more information

693
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: about all things crypto. You can follow me on Twitter

694
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: and at coin beera or one word, and I'm also

695
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: active on TikTok and Instagram as well. First of all,

696
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: it's not thank you for listening, You're welcome for great content. Yeah,

697
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: Like this is free and they're learning about a fairly

698
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: great topic in a non boring way. If you'd like

699
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 1: to visit me and hear more about me, go to

700
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: mooch about, m O O C H A, B O

701
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: U T or else. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio,

702
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

703
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: we get your podcasts. The coin Beera podcast is a

704
00:40:52,680 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio