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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: Everyone can be part of the problem. Sometimes it really

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Speaker 2: does start with you, and then it bleeds out to

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Speaker 2: your community, and then it goes out to the world,

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Speaker 2: and that's really how social change happens.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration,

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Speaker 1: or a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA moments

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Speaker 1: or appreciate anything from this episode, please leave us a

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Speaker 1: review to let us know we're on the right track. Also,

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Speaker 1: we release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe

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Speaker 1: on iTunes and visit cultivatinghurspace dot com to access our

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Speaker 1: exclusive after show and other bonus content from the Patreon tab.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 3: women like you. We're your hosts Doctor Dominique Brussard, a

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Speaker 3: college professor and psychologist.

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Speaker 1: And Terry Lomax, a tech and motivational speaker. In a

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Speaker 1: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please

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Speaker 1: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from

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Speaker 1: five roids to fake friends, and create a safe space

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Speaker 1: where black women can just.

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Speaker 3: Be Hey, lady, it's doctor dom here. From the cultivating

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Speaker 3: her space podcast. Are you currently a resident of the

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Speaker 3: state of California in contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well,

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Speaker 3: if so, please reach out to me at doctor Dominique

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Speaker 3: Brusard dot com. That's d R D O M I

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Speaker 3: N I q U E B R O U ss

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Speaker 3: ar D dot com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation.

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Speaker 3: I look forward to hearing from you.

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Speaker 1: All right, lady, Today we have a very special guest

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Speaker 1: and we are covering a topic that I'm actually surprised

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Speaker 1: we haven't covered just yet, because it's super important. Magdela

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Speaker 1: is an Ethiopian American writer, advocate, and organizer. She's the

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Speaker 1: author of Plus Size, a memoir of pop culture, fat phobia,

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Speaker 1: and social change. She's also a contributor of the anthology

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Speaker 1: Pan African Spaces, essays on Black transnationalism, and her work

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Speaker 1: has been featured in the North England Black and Minority

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Speaker 1: Ethnic Pennycress Design. She is an avid student of feminism

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Speaker 1: and critical race theory, and Magdella earned her MA in

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Speaker 1: Social and public policy from the University of Leeds, where

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Speaker 1: she wrote about how the media and public perceptions shape

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Speaker 1: each other and the public policies that create our realities. Magdella,

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Speaker 1: welcome to Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: Thank you glad to be here.

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Speaker 3: We are so excited to have you he and definitely

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Speaker 3: looking forward to this much needed conversation. And so I

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Speaker 3: am going to start us off with our quote of

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Speaker 3: the day. Our quote of the day is a statistic

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Speaker 3: from a national research study which Magdella, you provided us

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Speaker 3: with this information. So our quote, seventy percent of American

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Speaker 3: women are a size fourteen or larger. The average American

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Speaker 3: woman is a size sixteen to eighteen. However, only eighteen

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Speaker 3: percent of the clothes sold in brick and mortar stores

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Speaker 3: is plus size. First of all, Mgdella, thank you for

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Speaker 3: sharing that statistic with us, because it's so important to

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Speaker 3: ground us in this conversation that we're going to have today.

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Speaker 3: And when you were not were are doing the works

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Speaker 3: that you do. What does this quote? What does this

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Speaker 3: statistic mean to you? How does it help shape your conversations?

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Speaker 2: It just illustrates a lot of the problem. You know,

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Speaker 2: a large swath of society, a large swath of the population,

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Speaker 2: is writing it difficult to access you know, different resources

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Speaker 2: and even to just access institutions at all. And it

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Speaker 2: really is devastating. You know, the effect that we see

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Speaker 2: that have on society and on individuals is really devastating.

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Speaker 1: Magdela, would you mind telling us about your origin story

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Speaker 1: and what your journey was to becoming the Magdela that

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Speaker 1: you are today?

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Speaker 2: Sure when people, I answer the same way when people

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Speaker 2: ask how I wrote it the book.

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Speaker 4: But so, in like.

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Speaker 2: Around twenty sixteen, when Trump became like right before Trump

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Speaker 2: became president, I was a community organizer in LA working

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Speaker 2: with communities of color, and when the Trump presidency hit,

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Speaker 2: everybody just like it was like chaos. Everything went up

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Speaker 2: in smoke, went up in the air. Everyone was running

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Speaker 2: around like a chicken with their head cut off. And

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Speaker 2: I was no different, right, I was no different. And

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Speaker 2: so I started writing my blog just so that I

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Speaker 2: could organize my thoughts and just so I could record

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Speaker 2: everything that was happening and you know, come up with

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Speaker 2: some kind of a plan, you know. And it was

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Speaker 2: out of that blog actually that I got the materials

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Speaker 2: and the essays for my book.

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Speaker 3: You know, when I think about that time period, it

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Speaker 3: has shaped so many of our lives, and it was

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Speaker 3: a turning point for a lot of us, right, And

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Speaker 3: so prior to that point, right what was life like

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Speaker 3: for you, and so kind of paint the picture for

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Speaker 3: us on how life was before and then how it

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Speaker 3: shifted at that point to get you where you are

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know, I was already of course doing you know,

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Speaker 2: social justice work. But you know, especially being younger, you know,

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Speaker 2: being in college, you have like these rose colored glasses on,

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Speaker 2: and you're very naive and thankfully like optimistic, you know,

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Speaker 2: about the world. Especially when I was younger, I was

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Speaker 2: really very heavily involved in electoral politics and really believing.

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Speaker 2: But interestingly enough, I think that that whole experience really

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Speaker 2: taught me, you know that, you know, it's both sides

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Speaker 2: have their issues. You know, both sides have their problems

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Speaker 2: with racism, both sides of like the electoral politics in

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Speaker 2: this country kind of stalemate politics in a way. No,

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Speaker 2: there's no one group that's really perfect, and you know,

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Speaker 2: just showing you know, me and others kind of like

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Speaker 2: the way, you know, the way for you know, which

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Speaker 2: is just always being aware, you know that everyone can

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Speaker 2: be part of the problem. Sometimes it really does start

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Speaker 2: with you, and then it bleeds out to your community,

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Speaker 2: and then it goes out to the world, and that's

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Speaker 2: really how social change happens.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that. I don't want to shift

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Speaker 1: gears a little bit. And before we talk about your book,

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Speaker 1: I just want to lean into fat phobia in general.

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Speaker 1: And I will say I've pretty much been a slim

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Speaker 1: woman for the majority of my life. And although we've

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Speaker 1: talked about this on the podcast too, I believe we

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Speaker 1: talked about the experiences this slim women have. Many of

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Speaker 1: us have experienced as far as the you know, teasing

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Speaker 1: and things like that growing up. However, even still, I've

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Speaker 1: been very aware that I would like to say, my

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Speaker 1: fully figured sisters, I feel like they definitely I feel

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Speaker 1: like we have a privilege as slim women, and I

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Speaker 1: feel as though the fully figured women have definitely had

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Speaker 1: a tougher experience. But for those that maybe don't really

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Speaker 1: understand fat phobia, we talk about how fat fobius shows

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Speaker 1: up in everyday life, and actually, like, what does it

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Speaker 1: mean for folks that are kind of removed from that experience.

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Speaker 2: That's a great question. I actually just did a training

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Speaker 2: recently at work, and I wish I had it right now.

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Speaker 2: There was like a privilege wheel and it just showed,

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Speaker 2: you know, and it was asking like staff to really

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Speaker 2: think about how you might be privileged. So, for instance,

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Speaker 2: it had you know, body size, where closer to privilege

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Speaker 2: it was like slim, and then in the middle it

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Speaker 2: was like average, and then at the very outside of

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Speaker 2: circle it was like large. And then to compare that

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Speaker 2: to something else, it was like let's say class, right,

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Speaker 2: obviously the wealthy or the closest, and then middle class

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Speaker 2: and then poor was at the very end. And then

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Speaker 2: skin tone, right, it had dark was or sorry I

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Speaker 2: would say white or light was at the closest to

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Speaker 2: the power, and then the middle one just said other shades,

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Speaker 2: and then the outer one said dark. And then it

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Speaker 2: had like education, you know, the closest to the power

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Speaker 2: was like you know, a university education, and then it

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Speaker 2: was like in the middle it was like maybe high school,

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Speaker 2: and then at the out I don't want it was

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Speaker 2: like below high school education. And it just went on

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Speaker 2: in that in that ormat. And so so that's kind

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Speaker 2: of like how you want to think about it. It's

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Speaker 2: just like something like an implicit bias. It's like kind

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Speaker 2: of like the way you would think about any privilege.

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Speaker 2: Like the most famous one is maybe white privilege, where

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Speaker 2: it's invisible to the people who have it because the

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Speaker 2: systems work to make it invisible. Right. You just think

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Speaker 2: that's just normal, Right, that's just how everybody moves through

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Speaker 2: the world. But then when you examine that more, you

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Speaker 2: see you start you can start to see it. You

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Speaker 2: know how other people don't benefit from that. And then

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Speaker 2: the people that are part of that marginal whatever the

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Speaker 2: marginalized group might be, they know that they don't have

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Speaker 2: that privilege, and they know other people don't have that privilege.

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Speaker 1: All right, lady, this insightful conversation with Midela is just

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Speaker 1: beginning up. Next, we're going we're talking all about what

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Speaker 1: that fobia means, why I felt a bit ignorant in

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Speaker 1: regards to this topic, and much much more. But first

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Speaker 1: let's dive back in. I just want to lean in

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Speaker 1: a bit more to that when it comes to like

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Speaker 1: fat phobia, what does that mean? What does that mean

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Speaker 1: for folks and how does that play out in the

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Speaker 1: royal world for folks that have not experienced that.

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Speaker 2: Fatphobia is like this, like just hatred, you know, hatred

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Speaker 2: and revulsion towards fat bodies and so and it looks

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Speaker 2: like just like every day you know, discrimination, you know,

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Speaker 2: not being hired for a job, or not being paid

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Speaker 2: the money that you deserve, or not being chosen for opportunities,

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Speaker 2: or even like just being harassed on the sidewalk, you know,

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Speaker 2: because to me it just didn't like the way you

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Speaker 2: looked that day or something like that.

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Speaker 3: It's so ridiculous when I hear what when you describe

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Speaker 3: what fat phobia is, right, it's so ridiculous that we

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Speaker 3: engage with people in this way. But the reality is,

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Speaker 3: this is why it's an implicit bias, right, because those

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Speaker 3: of us who hold the privilege can also engage in

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Speaker 3: in fat phobia in ways that we don't even realize.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: So some of the examples that you gave are the

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Speaker 3: more over blatant ways in which we might discriminate against

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Speaker 3: fat people. And I'm going to use that word because

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Speaker 3: we're using the term fat phobia, right, and so what

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Speaker 3: are the ways, what are the subtle ways or not

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Speaker 3: so obvious ways in which many of us are engaging

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Speaker 3: in fat phobia and don't even realize it. I would say,

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Speaker 3: you know, diet culture.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's like, oh, you know, I don't want

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Speaker 2: to eat this because I don't want to get fat,

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Speaker 2: you know, where I need to go to the gym

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Speaker 2: every day because I don't like you know, it's just

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Speaker 2: like the little things that are literally just part of

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Speaker 2: our everyday lives that we don't realize our aspects of,

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Speaker 2: like mattphobia and diet culture is like a big driver

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Speaker 2: of that that's been very realized.

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Speaker 4: I think I.

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Speaker 1: Have to say, like Gela, I feel like I have

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Speaker 1: an internal conflict as we have this conversation because although

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Speaker 1: this is very different, I am not comparing race and

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Speaker 1: this conversation at all. But this is the best way

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Speaker 1: that I can like wrap my mind around this. I

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Speaker 1: think about when I've had experiences trying to explain the

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Speaker 1: plight of black people to a white person, and it's

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Speaker 1: very frustrating when they just don't understand. And to think

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Speaker 1: about the fact that it's so bizarre to think that, Wow,

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Speaker 1: you don't really see what we go through. And so

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Speaker 1: I feel as though I'm an ignorant person, that is,

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Speaker 1: you know, asking you all these questions, and I know

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Speaker 1: that there's I would assume that there's a degree of

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Speaker 1: emotional labor that you've done as you do this work,

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Speaker 1: and so I'd love to know how can we be

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Speaker 1: I want to say, good allies If those of us,

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Speaker 1: I want to say, have like body image privilege, if

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Speaker 1: that makes sense, how can we be advocates and allies

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Speaker 1: for those that don't have that privilege? If that makes

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Speaker 1: any sense at all. I hope I worded that correctly.

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Speaker 2: Take the time to talk to your own family and friends,

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Speaker 2: you know, and to you know, to call people in

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Speaker 2: and you know, if you see someone you know being

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Speaker 2: attacked for being fat, you know, definitely if it's like safe,

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Speaker 2: maybe not even like in a physical context, but like

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Speaker 2: online or something, you know, you can always use your

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Speaker 2: privilege to stand in the middle, you know, and shield

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Speaker 2: them from that. Yeah, and just generally hoping to protect

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Speaker 2: fat people and to promote their safety.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for answering that, And you know,

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Speaker 3: and we'll probably say thank you a lot during this

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Speaker 3: episode because, as Terry mentioned, we recognize the emotional labor

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Speaker 3: that goes into having a conversation like this, right, and

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Speaker 3: so you want to shift gears just a little bit

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Speaker 3: and shift up the energy just to touch. And we

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Speaker 3: want to talk about your book, Plus Size, a memoir

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Speaker 3: of pop culture, fat phobia and social chains. So tell

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Speaker 3: us more about it. Tell our listeners who might not have.

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Speaker 2: Heard about it yet.

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Speaker 3: Tell us tell us some of the things, the juicy

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Speaker 3: things that like we need to know.

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Speaker 2: It's written as kind of like a creative nonfiction book

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Speaker 2: and so it has you know, some history statistics, but

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Speaker 2: also like book reviews, movie reviews, television reviews, and also

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Speaker 2: just you know, real life incidents and examples and essays

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Speaker 2: taken from my own life that really illustrate a big picture.

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Speaker 2: It tells a story like through all of these different mediums.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, that's exciting and i'd love to know. We'll

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Speaker 2: probably you know, cover this at the end and also

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Speaker 2: at the link in the show notes. But where can

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Speaker 2: people purchasehip book if they want to support you?

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Speaker 4: Sure?

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Speaker 2: Sure, it's on Amazon, Barnes and Noble. Also it was

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Speaker 2: so published on book Baby, so nobody's heard about that,

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Speaker 2: but if you want to support an independent bookseller, it's

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Speaker 2: on there as well.

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Speaker 1: Amazing. Thank you for sharing, and can you talk to

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about how pop culture has impacted

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Speaker 1: the way that we treat each other just as a

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Speaker 1: society in general.

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Speaker 2: And it's interesting because we just see it as entertainment,

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Speaker 2: but really, you know, pop culture is teaching us, you know,

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Speaker 2: how to view the world. How do we see people?

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Speaker 2: How do we and how we see people translates to

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Speaker 2: how we treat people, you know, and then it even

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Speaker 2: impacts you know, public policies because in politicians going off

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Speaker 2: of that same knowledge, will you know, legislate things that

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Speaker 2: can be very harmful or very good you know for

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Speaker 2: populations based on that. But you know, a really good

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Speaker 2: example of that recently the Oscars incident with Will Smith

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Speaker 2: slapping Chris Rock. I almost this is the second time

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Speaker 2: I've almost said Chris Brown, but it's Chris Rock. And

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Speaker 2: so I've been having conversations about this all week. I

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Speaker 2: work with black women at my job and we had

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Speaker 2: we had a conversation about this as well. And you know,

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Speaker 2: just even walking my dog today, I overheard a group

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Speaker 2: of older black men talking about it, and I was

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Speaker 2: I felt so glad that I got to overhear that.

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Speaker 2: And one of them was saying, you know that oscars,

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Speaker 2: like all of the camera men were black men, you know,

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Speaker 2: or black people, and you know, and then you know,

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Speaker 2: Will got up there and he did that, and you know,

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Speaker 2: it just ruined, you know, And now now they're going

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Speaker 2: to say, like this is they're all like that, you know,

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Speaker 2: that's what they're going to say. And I'm I'm and

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Speaker 2: I'm like and these were older black men and like,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I understand, you know, the generational differences,

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Speaker 2: and but that really seems to be like the two

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Speaker 2: different sides of the debate right now, where it's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, people who understand why and the people who

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Speaker 2: were saying, you know, that was completely uncalled for. Right.

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Speaker 2: But the reason why I, you know, understand where Will

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Speaker 2: was coming from is because of that, because you know,

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Speaker 2: pop culture informs how we treat each other, right, And

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Speaker 2: and so people only focus on the slap, and they

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Speaker 2: completely obscure what everything that happened before that, Right, So

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Speaker 2: what happened why we didn't just get up on stage

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Speaker 2: and slap him out of nowhere?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: There was something that triggered that, and so it was

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Speaker 2: a joke, you know, Chris Rock and I and I

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Speaker 2: do believe he knew what he was doing, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean. He made a very insensitive joke about

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Speaker 2: Jada Pinketts missair and her hair is she's lost it

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Speaker 2: because of her condition, which is alopecia and so, and.

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Speaker 1: People were saying, well, he didn't know.

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Speaker 2: But this is also the man who has been targeting

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Speaker 2: data for years, since twenty sixteen. He has also made

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Speaker 2: light of black women before. You know, he had that

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Speaker 2: documentary Good Hair, which was more disrespectful than anything. It

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Speaker 2: was actually a comedy. He did not portray that in

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Speaker 2: a respectful light, and it's intentional. You know, there's a

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Speaker 2: very specific type of man that you know, punches down

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Speaker 2: at black women, and I do believe that Chris Rock

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Speaker 2: is that man, you know, and I think based on

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Speaker 2: their interactions with him, the Smith family understood that as well.

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Speaker 2: So when that joke was made, you know, and that

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Speaker 2: you know that violence it hit Jada, you know, so

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Speaker 2: Will got up and he returned that violence back in

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Speaker 2: a different form by slapping him. And I know people

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Speaker 2: are saying that that was inappropriate, but you know, for

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Speaker 2: someone you know, like me, who's been a black woman

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Speaker 2: in my whole life, who has black hair and you know,

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Speaker 2: or who has a black hair style and who understands

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Speaker 2: like the associated trauma with that, you know, and you know,

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Speaker 2: and who's seen just as someone like I've written in

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Speaker 2: my book about how I've seen you know, the way

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Speaker 2: disabled people are treated interpersonally on a policy level, you know,

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Speaker 2: politically even now during the pandemic, how they're just constantly

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Speaker 2: thrown under the bus, right. You know, it's like I

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Speaker 2: understand that those words are more than just words, like

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Speaker 2: those words are violence. Those words are they incite violence

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Speaker 2: against vulnerable groups of people, you know, and they shape

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Speaker 2: how we think and how we see each other and

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Speaker 2: how we treat each other. And that's why, you know,

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Speaker 2: because I understand that very well. So for me, the slap,

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Speaker 2: you know, somebody said it well when they said, you know,

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Speaker 2: he was just speaking Chris Rock's language, right, because I'm

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Speaker 2: sure they've they've taught to him before and that didn't work, right,

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Speaker 2: Like you can say, well, you know, I you know,

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Speaker 2: you need to stop talking about us. But you know

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Speaker 2: some people are not going to be you know, open

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Speaker 2: to that, you know, to being called in like that.

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Speaker 2: So you know, that's just that's just how I have

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Speaker 2: to see it, you know, And so a lot of

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Speaker 2: us really saw that as someone standing up for black women,

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Speaker 2: you know, someone standing up for disabled people, you know,

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Speaker 2: or standing against making jokes about you know, and punching

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Speaker 2: down these groups, you know, because you know, I've definitely

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Speaker 2: encountered black men like Chris Rock or even not non

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Speaker 2: black men like Chris Rock, so you know, and it's

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Speaker 2: like that pashtag or that's really like that has more meaning,

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Speaker 2: like you know, respect black women and protect black women,

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Speaker 2: you know, and those words and the treatment we see

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Speaker 2: every day of vulnerable groups. That's really just shows you

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Speaker 2: how pop culture and words have that effect to change

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Speaker 2: and how you viewed people and how you treat them

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Speaker 2: as a result.

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Speaker 3: It's layered, right. I think that's the thing about issues

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Speaker 3: like this, right, that it's it's layered and complex. I

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Speaker 3: don't condone by those, but I understand where it comes from.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: So, as you were saying, you know that he was

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Speaker 3: Will Smith was returning Chris Rock's level of engagement. Right,

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Speaker 3: I can under I can understand that I don't like it.

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Speaker 3: I don't agree with it, but I can understand it, right.

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Speaker 3: I think where it gets complex for a lot of

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Speaker 3: people is what does protecting black women, what does protecting

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Speaker 3: vulnerable communities really look like? Right? And who is expected

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Speaker 3: to do it right? Because something that I've also seen

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Speaker 3: in the conversations is that the idea of protecting and

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Speaker 3: defending black women with violence is a form of toxic masculinity.

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Speaker 3: The expectation and the understanding that when a one that

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Speaker 3: a woman needs defending and two that it's up to

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Speaker 3: the man to defend her honor by using violence against

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Speaker 3: someone else. And so when you put that part into

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Speaker 3: the conversation as well, I think that's where things can

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Speaker 3: get really complex, right, Like, yes, black women need protecting,

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Speaker 3: but what does that protection really look like?

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to chime in and say I think

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Speaker 1: that that particular incident it brought up a lot of

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Speaker 1: emotions for a lot of people. I have mixed emotions

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Speaker 1: about it and understanding both perspectives and disagreeing with the

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Speaker 1: way that things were done as well. But one of

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Speaker 1: the things I took away from what you said, mik

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Speaker 1: Tela is I thought, this is a barca is so

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Speaker 1: powerful how we see people impacts how we treat people.

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Speaker 1: That is so powerful and so true, and I think

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Speaker 1: that in the climate that we live in today. You know,

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Speaker 1: people for a long time have admired celebrities and have

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Speaker 1: looked to them for you know, trends and influence. But

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Speaker 1: I think even more so today with social media, they

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Speaker 1: have a bigger responsibility because who knows how that entire

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Speaker 1: interaction in general is going to impact how other people

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Speaker 1: move forward. So I do think that I think people

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Speaker 1: just doing the work, their personal work and figuring out,

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Speaker 1: you know, how they can show up best for themselves

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Speaker 1: and their legacy and all that stuff. I think that

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Speaker 1: that all matters. I would love to talk a bit

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Speaker 1: about misconceptions, right, and some of the common misconceptions about

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Speaker 1: being plus size or being fat. And I've always felt

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Speaker 1: weird saying fat because it seemed like a derogatory term.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to know your thoughts on that too. Mcdeala's

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna I'm just going to just give you

434
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: all that that verbal bombit that it's feel free to

435
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: just kind of see what comes up for you after

436
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: that statement.

437
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just wanted to acknowledge the previous points absolutely,

438
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 2: you know, protecting black women. You know, it's really just

439
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: I think, you know, not you know, using that language

440
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 2: or using words that is like derogatory and disrespectful in

441
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: punching down, you know, not making jokes or making light

442
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: of the situation because it's not it's not a joke,

443
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: you know. But then you know, of course you know words,

444
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 2: you can also use words to defend, you know, against that,

445
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 2: or to say, you know what that's wrong or you

446
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: know what you shouldn't say that or don't do that,

447
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: you know, using your actions, you know, protecting you know,

448
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: black women, you know, supporting black women, support black women,

449
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 2: you know, when they speak up out their experiences, you know, listen,

450
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 2: you know, believe them. You know when they ask you

451
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 2: what they need, you know, do that, you know, and

452
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 2: there's really in different ways, and we could talk about that.

453
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 2: I think it was just a very specific situation. It

454
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: was unfortunate, you know obviously, you know, I don't think

455
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 2: we'll planned it. Obviously he was just reacting in the

456
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 2: moment and this is how people were seeing it. But

457
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: to answer your question, yeah, the misconceptions, the biggest one,

458
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: you know would be, you know, fat isn't a bad word.

459
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: I think it's been used as a bad word or

460
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: as something negative, but it's not. It's a neutral descriptor.

461
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: And but the thing is is that the way that

462
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: it's coded, you know, it's almost the way that it's presented,

463
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: you know, through language and even just from like a

464
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: very young age, the way we're taught about it is it's,

465
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: you know, fat is ugly, it's bad. You know, it's

466
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: a negative thing. You know, or you know it means

467
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: you're unhealthy, you're lazy, and you're an immoral bad person.

468
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: You know, that's kind of like what it's what the

469
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 2: coding is there, and those are all misconceptions, Like you know,

470
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 2: fat doesn't necessarily mean ugly. It's not a bad thing.

471
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 2: It's a neutral descriptor, and it doesn't mean you're lazy.

472
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 2: You know, people really just have different body types and

473
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 2: react to the environment differently and their environments differently, and

474
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: it definitely doesn't mean that you're immoral or a bad person.

475
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 2: I think, you know, fat is just a neutral descriptor.

476
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 3: Thank you for that, Yes, I appreciate you clarifying that because.

477
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 5: Even earlier, when I use the word, I notice how

478
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 5: I like gave a descriptor gave a disclaimer with it, right,

479
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,439
Speaker 5: And I think that that speaks to a lot of

480
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 5: our discomfort, right, and a lot of our socialization around

481
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 5: our size and body image.

482
00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 3: And so what are some of the ways and that

483
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 3: you've noticed pop culture is socializing us to.

484
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: Not like fat people. My eyes recently were just open

485
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,239
Speaker 2: because I didn't even notice it either before, Like I

486
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: didn't realize that that was happening. Sometimes somebody else would

487
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: point it out, and then I started seeing it, like

488
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: a really good example Insecure, Like I loved the super

489
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 2: fan of you know this show, Like I loved it

490
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 2: and I've been watching like every season and I never

491
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 2: noticed before that there it was fatphobic the way that

492
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 2: they were portraying Kelly until somebody pointed it out to me.

493
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 2: So if you notice, like she's kind of like always

494
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 2: that character is kind of always given the short end

495
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: of the stick, you know, she she's kind of like

496
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: a just like a comedic relief. It's kind of she's

497
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 2: kind of paid off as a joke. She doesn't have

498
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 2: like the character development that the other one that the

499
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: other characters do. She doesn't really have anything really going

500
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 2: on in her life. She's just kind of like a

501
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 2: supporting character to the in her black women and like

502
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 2: and people. A lot of people love her because she

503
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: she's funny, you know, but unfortunately a lot of the

504
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: jokes that she's a part of or the butt of,

505
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: are just really fatphobia, you know. And I didn't even

506
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: catch that when I first saw it, but it was

507
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: after being told that I saw it. And then after

508
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 2: I saw it, I started noticing that in other shows

509
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 2: as well. But and I know I wouldn't have, Like,

510
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: for instance, I don't know if you're familiar with the

511
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: show on My Block on Netflix, it's the main cast

512
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: is both like black actors and Latin X actors and

513
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: they are in high school and it is just showing

514
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 2: their lives. And so the main main cast, so there's

515
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: there's one thin, light skin Afro Latina woman, there's two

516
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: white Latino boys, and then there's one black I believe

517
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 2: African American boy. And those are the four main cast members.

518
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: And so oh and also there's like a so she's

519
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: not really a main cast member. She's kind of like

520
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 2: she at least the beginning, she was kind of like

521
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 2: a supporting and then she moved to like a main

522
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,239
Speaker 2: cast member. A plus size white latina, so and then

523
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 2: you'll notice and so. And then because of like the

524
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: conversations that people had had with me about insecure, you know,

525
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 2: Kelly and insecure, I picked up on the plus size

526
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 2: character in on my Block? What's her name was it?

527
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: I don't even want to say in case I get

528
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 2: her name wrong. Yeah, So you can just see it

529
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 2: in the beginning, like though, because she was like the

530
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 2: only and then there was like and there was like

531
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 2: a supporting character who was like a skinny white latina

532
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: in the beginning, and and like you can just see

533
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: like the way the plus size white latina was. She

534
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,959
Speaker 2: was completely like they portrayed her as like like it

535
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: was like a minstrelsy trope, Like she was just really loud, abrasive.

536
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: They even racialized it. She was like the ghetto one

537
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 2: where she would wear like big hoops and she was

538
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 2: just really like her she had like a lot of

539
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: like add a lot of flavor, but it was like disrespectful,

540
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: like the way they did it, it was very honest.

541
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: It was very obviously like an fu. And then like

542
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: but the skinny white latina and like the the skinny,

543
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: light skinned Afro latina, like they were portrayed very like

544
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: in a more respectful manner, and they weren't like played

545
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: up as like ghetto or anything like that. They were

546
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: just allowed to just be, you know, they just were.

547
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: They were just chilling and like and the and the

548
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: dudes as well, and like you can even see like

549
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: and all of the characters, like all of the skinny characters,

550
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: like hated the plus size latina at the beginning, and

551
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 2: then like and so it was like you could just

552
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: see it and then like it. She eventually moved forward

553
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 2: to the front, but still like that pass like colored

554
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: her so like they eventually improved her character in a

555
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: way that Insecure didn't with Kelly. So that was the

556
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: one plus the one plus side I saw. But that

557
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 2: was like really interesting to realize because I don't think

558
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 2: I would have picked up on that before. Right, it's

559
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 2: all very like coded.

560
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 4: I'm with you.

561
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: I think this conversation for me is definitely going to

562
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 1: be eye opening and just noticing different shifts and the

563
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: way things are being portrayed. So I'll definitely keep my

564
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: eye open for that and look for ways that I

565
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: can also be an ally and advocate. I'd love to

566
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: know what feedback have you gotten from people about your

567
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,479
Speaker 1: book at this point in the journey, any particular feedback

568
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: that you'd like to share.

569
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: I've gotten really positive feedback. People were saying that it

570
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: really was well written, you know, well researched and well done.

571
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 2: You know that it really did a good job of

572
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: like showing that trajectory and telling that story. And even

573
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: for someone like who who had never heard any of

574
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: the terminology or who is completely unfamiliar with like that

575
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: cultural conversation like to cash you up to speed, like

576
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: kind of like a basic primer. Basically that's so exciting.

577
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: That is super exciting. And so.

578
00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 3: As we think about this conversation that we're having, what

579
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: is something about body positivity that you wish more people

580
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 3: knew about? So I think we focused a lot on

581
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 3: some of the harmful things that are occurring, but I

582
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 3: wanted to kind of shift and talk about some of

583
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: the positive things, like what's something in body positivity you

584
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 3: wish more people knew about.

585
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,479
Speaker 2: So before I answer that question, I just wanted to

586
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: let you know that I googled it and the name

587
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 2: of the character is Jasmine. So now you know, I

588
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 2: want to say justic question. I want to say Jessica,

589
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: but that's the name of the actress, so Jasmine. Jasmin's

590
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 2: the character now show.

591
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 4: Thank you for circling back on that.

592
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: It's good, it's good. I recommend it. But just like

593
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 2: you know, being aware of like those messages that you're

594
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: not like implicitly affected by it and then internalize that

595
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: and then it ends up coming out of you, because

596
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,239
Speaker 2: that's how it works. And I think that really is

597
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: the key, is having that media literacy so that you

598
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: can be aware of when you know those messages are

599
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 2: being sent, so that you're not going to internalize them

600
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: as much and you you won't end up, you know,

601
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 2: being the next person who's going to do that to

602
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 2: somebody else. Yeah. Something about body positivity that I wish

603
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: people knew it was actually started by plus size or

604
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 2: fat black women. It was just you know, you know,

605
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,280
Speaker 2: fat or plus size women in the beginning, but really

606
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 2: it was you know, black women that were doing the work.

607
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 2: And you'll notice, like when it's like any social movement,

608
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: it's always black women. It's always black women.

609
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 4: Always.

610
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: I was going to say that, and always that's okay,

611
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: yes we.

612
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 2: Want to say exactly exactly, but you'll notice, like, like

613
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 2: I wrote about that in the book as well, like

614
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: that first essay. So there's a trend that we've seen

615
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 2: with like social movements where even people that have the

616
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 2: best intentions that get together in order to dismantle a

617
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: certain system of power, it'll just end up replicating the

618
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: same power structure. And it's like nobody even intended to.

619
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 2: It's just like how power works. And that's kind of

620
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: like what happened there. But I mean, obviously, you know,

621
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 2: it's obviously also been co opted, you know, when it

622
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 2: became mainstream, when it became like marketed, you know, in

623
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 2: that way, and you know, kind of co like by

624
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 2: corporate you know, including Lane Bryant, who, by the way,

625
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 2: is not even really serving the popular, like the it's

626
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 2: client base. You know, it's a plus sized retailer that

627
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: doesn't do its job. There's any.

628
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.

629
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: So as a result of that, like the face of

630
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 2: body positivity quickly became a white woman, you know, a

631
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: smaller white woman with a very specific figure, you know,

632
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 2: and that's completely predictable if you know anything about the

633
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 2: world that we live in. But you know, but you know,

634
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 2: it was it was you know, carried by plus size

635
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 2: or fat black women. And you know, I'm glad that

636
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: my at least my book, you know, reported that history

637
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 2: so that it won't be forgotten.

638
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that. But yes, that a spot

639
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: on and yes, very predictable. We're going to shift up

640
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 1: the energy in just a bit. But mcdell, I love

641
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: to know do you think that Rihanna is doing a

642
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 1: good job with her brand, like Savage xpiny and how

643
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: she's trying to just showcase different brands of beauty within

644
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: her within her business.

645
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: I did like that, Yeah, I did notice that that

646
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: she it was like intentional that she showcased women of

647
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 2: different skin colors, you know, women of different body sizes,

648
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 2: you know, in her fashion show. You know, it was

649
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: like the anti Victoria Secret, which, by the way, you know,

650
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 2: that's like the funniest story ever. You know, Victoria's Secret

651
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 2: got canceled because they only had these really give me

652
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 2: cis white models, you know, and people boycotted them and

653
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 2: because of body positivity, and then they went out of

654
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: like they lost a lot of money and they had

655
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,919
Speaker 2: to rebrand. That's like the funniest story ever. But then

656
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 2: so but then Rihanna came in and she did it

657
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: like much better. You know, she had her own line

658
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 2: and her own fashion show, and it just was like

659
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 2: everything Victoria's secret, wasn't you know? And I did appreciate that,

660
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 2: and I thought, that's like a great start at least.

661
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: Thank you for timing in on that. All Right, this

662
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: is in a very educational conversation, and I feel like

663
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: we've had like a pretty like chill vibe kind of throughout,

664
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: but now it's about to get a little about to

665
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: get a little colorful. Okay, it's going to get a

666
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: little juicy. So because we recognize, appreciate, and celebrate the

667
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: multifaceted woman, and we believe here mc delived is okay

668
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 1: to be bougie, classy and ratchet and you can still

669
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: be elegant and dance to strip club music. We want

670
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: to invite you too, the oh you Blatchett segment. So

671
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 1: do you take on the challenge?

672
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 2: Yes?

673
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 4: Awesome.

674
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: And if you all can't see mcdella right now, but

675
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: she has a big smile on her face.

676
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 4: If you're tuning on Patreon, you can see the video.

677
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: But she quickly said yes, and then just the smile.

678
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 4: It's just a big, beautiful smile.

679
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,720
Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and tell you what you signed

680
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: up for Macdella because now we got you. You said yes,

681
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 1: So now we're gonna dive on it. So what we're

682
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: gonna do is we're gonna ask you three questions. We're

683
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: going to share three sentence completions, and then we're going

684
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,399
Speaker 1: to have you choose a number between one and three

685
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: because we've stalked your Instagram and we have three photos

686
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: from your Instagram pulled up on the big screen and

687
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: we want you to choose that number. We'll show you

688
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: the photo and then we'd love for you to provide

689
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: more context behind the photo, So sharing with us something

690
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,439
Speaker 1: that we wouldn't know about this particular photo or where

691
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 1: you were in life at that time that we can't

692
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 1: see from the photo. So I'm gonna pass it on

693
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: over to my partner and podcast are.

694
00:38:55,200 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 3: Here, all right, So the first question, what's the best

695
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 3: piece of wisdom or advice you've ever received?

696
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 2: The first thing that popped in my head is kind

697
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 2: of depressing, but I would say it's that, you know,

698
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 2: take people at face value. You know. I think what

699
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 2: a lot of us are guilty of doing is seeing

700
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 2: what we want to see right instead of what's actually there.

701
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: So you know, kind of like just when people show

702
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 2: you who they are, believe them.

703
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 4: I love it.

704
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: That's a classic right there. All right, Magdela, I have

705
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: four horse for you, okay, tork or two.

706
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 4: Step what you don't two step.

707
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: With a little step?

708
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 4: Thank you?

709
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: All right?

710
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 4: Mgdella.

711
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 3: What is the sexiest item you own?

712
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: A piece of life laundry from tourd which is funny

713
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: because Toward is another plus sized retailer that is just

714
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: letting down plus sized women. But it's kind of cute.

715
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 2: It's like lazy, and it has little flowers but you

716
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 2: can't even tell that they're flowers, so it's like it

717
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 2: just looks cute.

718
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:16,959
Speaker 4: But that's it.

719
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 3: I'm a believer in every woman having one piece of

720
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 3: black something that makes them feel sexy.

721
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 4: So I like that.

722
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 3: I like that, And I like that you mentioned a

723
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 3: place where they're not really doing the best work, but

724
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 3: you can still find that one gym.

725
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it exactly. So now we're

726
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: going to move on to this sentence completion. So the

727
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: first sentence completion is one question or topic I wish

728
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 1: people asked me about more often?

729
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 2: Is I would say my heritage? Yeah, I think you know,

730
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 2: people want. I mean especially you know, I'm sure both

731
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: of you have experiences. People want to put black people

732
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 2: in a box. They believe black people are a monolith.

733
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 2: They don't believe it's kind of like dehumanizing, you know,

734
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 2: they don't see us as full humans with like the

735
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: full range that everybody else has, you know, and a

736
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: lot of the times, like because you know, my family

737
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 2: is from Ethiopia, you know, I have like a lot

738
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 2: of African culture, people will see that as like you know,

739
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 2: being weird or out of place or you know, strange

740
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 2: or something. So I just wish people would be more

741
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 2: open minded and like less senophobic, you know, and and

742
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 2: learn more about like different especially and it's like, you know,

743
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: there's like xenophobia that non black people experience, and then

744
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: there's the xenophobia that black people experience, right, which is

745
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 2: like as always on ten, like on one hundred, you know.

746
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 2: So it's like just being a little bit more open

747
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 2: and learning about different cultures inheritations.

748
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 3: Wow, since you put it out there, the thing you

749
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:09,959
Speaker 3: wish more people knew about Ethiopia is that.

750
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 2: It's not that different, you know. I think you know,

751
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 2: that's a big part of like something that you know,

752
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 2: my community has discussed. It's like again, it's the media.

753
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 2: You know. The media is pushing a certain narrative about

754
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 2: the rest of the world, but especially about African countries,

755
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 2: and it's very much propaganda, you know, and it's like

756
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: what I wish people knew. It's not what the media

757
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 2: has told you. It's different in a lot of ways,

758
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 2: but more similar to here than you realize. Like people

759
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: are just people and if you went there, you would see.

760
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: That, yes, yes, call the media out. Okay, that is propaganda. Indeed,

761
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing and letting the people know. Our

762
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:55,320
Speaker 1: last sentence completion here is what I love most about myself.

763
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 2: Is you know what I love most about myself is

764
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: you know, my personality. I think I really like, you know,

765
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: the fact that I'm optimistic, that I try to be

766
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 2: good and then I try to respect everybody. I really

767
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: feel like everybody's equal. I really don't look down on anybody,

768
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 2: just really trying to cooperate so we can all enjoy

769
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: this world and get to a better place.

770
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: So sweet, I love it. Thank you, Thank you for sharing. Magdela.

771
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: We have one last activity before we wrap up, and

772
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: so we'd love for you to choose a number between

773
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: one and three, and then we're going to surprise you

774
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: with this photo here.

775
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 2: Okay, let's do number one.

776
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: Oh, number one. Okay, we don't get one often. Ah,

777
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: you're going to love this, okay. So some people are

778
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: only tuning in for the audio. So when you see

779
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: the picture, can you explain the picture and then give

780
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: us the context behind the picture?

781
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 4: Get ready for this. I think both of you are

782
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 4: going to love it. Look at this?

783
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 1: Sure okay, sure, sure, yeah.

784
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 2: Actually it's just like an image description. So that's another

785
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 2: thing we can talk about. So for blind users of

786
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 2: social media, they can use blipbrail to read the words,

787
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 2: but they can't see the pictures. So if you're like

788
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 2: posting a picture on social media, it's good to do

789
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 2: like an image description. You want to like describe it

790
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 2: in your caption so that blind users will be able

791
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 2: to know what the picture has.

792
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you for that.

793
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 4: Okay, thank you.

794
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 2: I try to do it, but I sometimes I forget,

795
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 2: and that's on me. But you know, I try to remember.

796
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 2: But this one is a picture of me in a

797
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 2: leopard print cat suit, a little zipper, I have like

798
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 2: a choker on, and I dyed my hair dirty blonde,

799
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 2: and it was especially curly because I was going to

800
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 2: a Halloween party as my childhood hero, which is Melanie

801
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 2: Brown from this or Meloby from the Spice Girls Scary Spies.

802
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 4: I love it.

803
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 1: This is so flaw so you all will have to

804
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: tune it on Patreon to see the cool image.

805
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 2: This is why I believe representation matters because it's so

806
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 2: funny after seeing her as a kid, like this hair

807
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 2: has always been beautiful to me, Like nobody can tell

808
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 2: me nothing, like not my family, like not guys, like

809
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 2: not the media. Like this has always been like my

810
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: version of beauty because even though there was like a

811
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 2: lot of like white women in that band, like she

812
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,439
Speaker 2: was like the one black lady. She's like the most

813
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: beautiful to me, to be honest, and that's always been

814
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: like my standard of beauty, to be honest.

815
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: There you go, Representation matters, well, Migzilla.

816
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 4: This was amazing.

817
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for spending the time, having the

818
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 1: patience to educate us, to share more information about your book,

819
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: for schooling us on how to be more inclusive and

820
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: how to be good allies, and just recognizing the privilege

821
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: that we have.

822
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 4: This was really great. We appreciate you.

823
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, of course, and so can

824
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 3: you remind our listeners of that amazing independent bookstore book place,

825
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 3: a book site and we get more words together at

826
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 3: independent book website where they can get your book, and

827
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 3: then also tell them where they can find you on

828
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 3: social media and anywhere else.

829
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 2: I guess the book the bookshop that it was called

830
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: book Baby, but even better, go to an independent bookstore

831
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 2: in Pasadena called Romans. It's my favorite and they're they're

832
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 2: selling it there. So if you like to go physically

833
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 2: somewhere that as well, and on social media, you can

834
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: follow me on Twitter at at plus size book lowercase amazing.

835
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, lady.

836
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 2: Thank you both. This is a really fun conversation. I'm

837
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,320
Speaker 2: glad to have it you.

838
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: Hey, lady, it's Terry here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.

839
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a free podcasting masterclass where I'm going to

840
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 1: teach you how to create your impactful podcast and how

841
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: you can generate multiple streams of income. You can visit

842
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: podcast with Terry dot com to register for free. I

843
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 1: hope to see you there.

844
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 3: You thanks for joining us today. Please note that our

845
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:15,919
Speaker 3: show may contain conversations about self help, advice, self empowerment,

846
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 3: and mental health, but is by no means meant to

847
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 3: be a substitute for an ongoing formal relationship with a

848
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 3: trained mental health provider. If you are someone you know

849
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 3: is in need of mental health care, please visit a

850
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 3: Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology today or contact your

851
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 3: insurance provider.

852
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 1: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

853
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: the conversation going, visit our website at cultivatinghirspace dot com

854
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: and be sure to tick the Patreon tath to get

855
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: access to video content, bonuses, and our weekly after show

856
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: and before we meet again, repeat after me, what's meant

857
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: for me? Will never miss me?

858
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 4: I don't have to chase