1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: So true story. Back in nineteen o eight, there was 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: this massive explosion in Tungusca. Do you guys remember this episode? Oh, 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: I most certainly do. It's one of the weirdest things 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna hear about. Really the trees. That to me, 5 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: that was one of the most fascinating things about this 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: What happened to the trees? What caused all these trees, 7 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: whatever it was, to do what they did? You know, 8 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: I love a good tree story, Matt when the trees 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: are at the center of the mystery, and that's what 10 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: you're going to get on today's classic, including a wonderful 11 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: appearance from Joe McCormick of stuff to blow your mind fame, well, 12 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: guess one of the things I was I was excited 13 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,959 Speaker 1: about off air. Joe has done some great episodes with us, 14 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: including The Bicameral Mind. Check that one out if you 15 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: haven't listened to it already. But for a taste of mystery, 16 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: a taste of Tungusca, dare I say, a taste of 17 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: Joe McCormick, go ahead and check this one out. Just 18 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: to be warned, this is not the Travis Walton Fire 19 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: in the Sky story. That's not what this is this 20 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: is something completely different, Yes, yes, and better. Well that's 21 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: up to you, folks from UFOs two ghosts and government 22 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: cover ups. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can 23 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want 24 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: you to now. Suddenly the north sky, the sky was 25 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: split into and high above the forest, the whole northern 26 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: part of the sky appeared covered with fire. At that moment, 27 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: there was a bang in the sky and a mighty crash. 28 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: The crash was followed by a noise like stones falling 29 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: from the sky or of guns firing. The earth trembled. 30 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: And that was a quotation that comes to us via 31 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: a researcher named Leonid Kulik, who heard this account at 32 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: the Nara Trading Post in Russia. The account was read 33 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: by our special guests on the show today. Uh the 34 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: one the only Mr Joe McCormick, who may recognize from 35 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: forward thinking. Hello Joe, Hi, everybody. It's an honor to 36 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: be on the show of ill repute such as this. 37 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: Why thank you. My name is Matt and I'm Ben. 38 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: And that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. 39 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: And today we are discussing something extremely cool, something explosive 40 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: and fiery and dangerous and deadly. Well fortunately, as far 41 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: as we know, not deadly for any humans. Yes, but 42 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: there were probably several animals injured in the making of 43 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: this event. Oh, I'd say no doubt about that. Yeah, 44 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: So today we're gonna be talking about the Tunguska event. 45 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: While back, Mr Ben Boland came up to me and 46 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: he asked if I'd like to be a guest host 47 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: on stuff they don't want you to know, and I said, 48 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: only if we can talk about the Tunguska event. That 49 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: was one of many of the conditions that came attached 50 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: to this appearance, and there's a lot of paperwork. Yeah, 51 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: we're glad we could make it all happen. But this 52 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: is such a fascinating topic because we know, we know 53 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: the facts, and for decades afterwards, people were not sure 54 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: what actually happened. But as we go through the episode today, Matt, 55 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: Joe and I are going to illuminate the events a 56 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: little bit by talking about what we know in the beginning, 57 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: the various theories that were proposed, and what we believe 58 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,119 Speaker 1: nowadays actually happens. So this is not one of those 59 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: podcasts where you'll walk away with way more questions than 60 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: the answers. We have the answer, ladies and gentlemen. Uh, 61 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: we have the answer, and as uh the Mad Hatter 62 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: said to Alice. Will start at the beginning and go 63 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: through the middle, and then we'll stop at the end. 64 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: Sound good, that's great. So let's start at what exactly 65 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: was the Tuska event. Well, we should start by saying 66 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: what Tungusca is. Okay, that's not a word that pops 67 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: up every day. Well maybe if you're one of us three, 68 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: but not for most people. Okay, So the Tungusca or 69 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: the Podkamanya Tunguska, if I'm saying that correctly, um is 70 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: a region in Russia. It's actually a region in Siberia. 71 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,239 Speaker 1: I believe in Siberia proper. So a lot of people 72 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: will say basically anything east of the Ural Mountains is Siberia, 73 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: not all Siberia. There's actually a part of Russia that 74 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: is officially Siberia, and this includes the Tunguska region. Right 75 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: spot on the pad Kaminaya, which I am probably mispronouncing, 76 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: is also a river that flows westward about nine hundred 77 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: seventy six miles or for everyone outside of the United 78 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: States and maybe two other countries uh d and seventy 79 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: one kilometers to a place called the Yenni sev River Um. 80 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: The name of this river uh means Tunguska under the pebbles. 81 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: There are a couple of different Tunguskas and their tributaries 82 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: of the Yenni sev Um and it's called under the pebbles, 83 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: interestingly enough, because it flows under these pebble fields, so 84 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: it's not an open river for the entirety of its run. Yeah. 85 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: And so in this region you have some you have 86 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: a lot of forests. You also have pete bogs and swamps, 87 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: and so there's a lot of great wilderness out there. 88 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: Fortunately not that much civilization. Yeah, that is fortunate. It 89 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: is not exactly New York City, um as as you 90 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: may have heard about Siberia. It's a pretty isolated place, right, Matt. Yeah, 91 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: it's a difficult place for humans to live. There are 92 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: a lot the only humans that really live out there 93 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: are these uh semi nomadic herders and trappers that survive 94 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,799 Speaker 1: off the land, and they're few and far between there. 95 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: What are they called the evenki Uh. Guess we should 96 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: also do a disclaimer that uh of none of the 97 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: three of us, to our knowledge, are Russian, and Noel 98 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: I don't believe you're okay. Nol is also uh not 99 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: a native Russian speaker. Uh. But what we do know, 100 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: aside from mispronouncing a few things here and there, we 101 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: do know that in this isolated part of the world, 102 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 1: something very strange happened a little after seven am on 103 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: June in you heard the quotation right, a massive explosion 104 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: the way a lot of people at the time seemed 105 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: to have described it. And and as far as we know, 106 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: there was nobody at ground zero of this. There were 107 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: there were people who were quite far away but still 108 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: felt the effects imminently. Uh. So people described it as 109 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: seeing a vast light in the sky, burning particles, a 110 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: sky full of fire, a second son, uh, these terrifying 111 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:02,799 Speaker 1: apocalyptic visions, and then feeling things like searing heat coming 112 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: from the air, and then uh shock wave blasts as 113 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: if described like cannon fire. And we also know that 114 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: people from as far as forty miles away reported some 115 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: stuff about this blast. So there's no argument here. Something 116 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: definitely happened. It wasn't just a bunch of nobody's denying that, 117 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,559 Speaker 1: Like no, no no, nothing to see here, right, because 118 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: it even burned people within thirteen miles of where it happened, 119 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: and there are animals that were burned, so there are 120 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: obvious effects that you could feel and see. Yeah, there's 121 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: some real into the world stuff there. But as we know, 122 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: as we said at the top, uh, years passed and 123 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: people weren't sure what occurred. And in the absence of that, uh, 124 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: no one was able to say what happened. So people 125 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: started saying what they thought happened, they were believed that occurred. Yeah. Sure, 126 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: something huge happens like this, and you know, you go 127 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: to what you know or what you believe, right, That's 128 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: kind of what humans do something if you don't understand it, 129 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: it's just you go to your innermost beliefs. Sure. I mean, 130 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: if something like this were to have happened, say, uh, 131 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: fifty years later, you can bet I think that uphology 132 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: would immediately come into play. I'd say that wasn't such 133 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: a big thing back in nineteen o eight. I mean, 134 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: there were vague kind of ideas of other worldly visitations, 135 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: but they didn't have the science fiction vision of flying 136 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: saucers with energy weapons like we do today. Yeah, or 137 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: perhaps a nuclear strike something that something looks like a 138 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: second son burning in the air. Yeah, one might say 139 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: that again today, but back then, I mean, they had 140 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: no reference point for that. They didn't have nuclear weapons 141 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: act that we know of a right. So that's a 142 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: really interesting point though. So if we talk out some 143 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: of the things that people did believe, we will see 144 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: that some of these ideas came into play um decades 145 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: after the fact, and one of those being the idea 146 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: of extraterrestrials. So you'll you'll see claims that some sort 147 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: of extraterrestrial force either accidentally or purposely triggered this explosion um, 148 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: or that evidence of this craft or this weapon or whatever. Oh, 149 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,439 Speaker 1: that's the most important part, that it was something made 150 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: by an intelligence, that it was not just from space 151 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: but purposely crafted and then sent here um. And then 152 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: you can also see that when people started speculating that 153 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: perhaps this was Tesla technology. Right. Yeah, So I've seen 154 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: this claim just uh, pretty low profile, it seems to me, 155 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: but around the web in various places people speculating, well, 156 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: I wonder if the Tunguska event, the giant fire in 157 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: the sky that was seen there was Nicola Tesla, the 158 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: famed somewhat maybe mad inventor testing his so called death ray. Now, 159 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: Tesla tried to disown the term death ray. He wasn't 160 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: interested in that, and he tried to distance himself from it, 161 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: but he did for many years advertised that he was 162 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: trying to create a particle beam that would be used 163 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: as a weapon that could end all wars. Basically, that 164 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: it would be able to repel from a great distance 165 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: any infantry invasion or air airplane attack. That it would 166 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: be a devastating weapon that would provide insurmountable defense to 167 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: every country that possessed it, right, which I think is 168 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: an interesting argument for deterrence. Right, and we see it 169 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: happening now. The logic of having a nuclear arsenal is 170 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: similar to the logic yeah with his particle Really, what 171 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: he's talking about, Tesla is just musually asured destruction. Well, 172 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: it could be interpreted that way. Actually did a podcast 173 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: with Jonathan Strickland on Tech Stuff about this. I'm not 174 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: usually a host of tech stuff, but I guessed with 175 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: him about technologies that were believed at some point might 176 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: end all wars, world peace tech. It turns out none 177 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: of those have ever worked, But so one way of 178 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 1: looking at weapons to end wars, is this idea of 179 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: mutually assured destruction. Everybody has weapons so powerful that it's 180 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 1: in nobody's interest to start a war because the retaliation 181 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: would be devastating to you. The other idea is a 182 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: prohibitive defensive weapon. And I sometimes get the impression that's 183 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: what Tesla is thinking about, that he's thinking about. Well, 184 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily so much that it would be a 185 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: devastating retaliatory attack, but just that you could repel anything 186 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 1: coming into your border. It would be almost kind of 187 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 1: like a Tesla kind of steampunk version of the Iron 188 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: Dome system that Israel employees uh supposedly to shoot down 189 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: incoming rockets. Not uh, not entirely of effect, of of course. 190 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: But then also if we took at global it could 191 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: be compared to the Star Wars program if that program worked. Um, 192 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: spoiler alerts left and right, everybody. But we do know 193 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: that Tesla was involved in some innovative tech and also 194 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 1: in these uh in these experiments that have given rise 195 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: to so much speculation, one of course being warden Cliff 196 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: Tower and h Wardencliffe Tower. If we look at the 197 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: timeline here, uh, the Tunguska. Uh event occurred in nineteen 198 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: o eight. Warden Cliff Tower was shut down in nineteen 199 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: o five. It wasn't dismantled until nineteen seventeen. So, Um, 200 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:51,599 Speaker 1: the timelines here don't seem to work out. But of course, um, 201 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: if he's talking about the particle beam instead, then we 202 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: don't really know. But we we have more compelling evidence 203 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: that says he didn't have anything to do with it. Yeah, 204 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: I am not even convinced it's likely that Tesla ever 205 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,359 Speaker 1: really had a particle beam. Look, I'm just gonna say 206 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: if he did have a particle beaming, and I don't 207 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: know if he did, that would be the perfect place 208 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: to test it. Well, in the middle of nowhere, right, 209 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: If you assume that he was a relatively humane guy, 210 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: he'd want to be it would be like the nuclear 211 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: tests in the desert. You'd want to do them somewhere 212 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: where nobody was living. Yeah, and that's that's a really 213 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: good point, because what if there were some sort of 214 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: group that had technology uh Here on my notes, I 215 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: had streets of streets ahead because I was watching Community earlier, 216 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: and I used that phrase at nauseum. But I don't 217 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: know what that means it's oh man, I'll tell you later, Okay, 218 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: it's just a lame way of trying to say something's cool. Uh. 219 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: So this idea that there would be some sort of 220 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: suppressed technology that was being tested, not necessarily tied to TESLA. 221 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: That that's another popular idea. UM. Again, it's an idea that, 222 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: as far as we know, does not have any tangible 223 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: proof at this time. Uh. And then, of course, if 224 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: we want to get weird with it, there is the 225 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: idea of an extremely small black hole. I haven't read 226 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: a lot about this, but from what I have looked at, 227 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem very likely. The idea is basically that 228 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: a black hole shot through the Earth. So we had 229 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: a wandering, tiny black hole that was just I don't know, 230 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: floating through space and at some point it entered Earth's atmosphere, 231 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: smashed through Earth, and exited out the other side. I 232 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: believe I seems fairly ridiculous on its face. It seems 233 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: like there will be more destruction something like that. Where 234 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: do happen? I don't know well, And I think the 235 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: idea is that there would be more evidence of it, 236 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: like what we'd see. It would have had more effects 237 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: at both ends of the Earth in an exit wound. Honestly, 238 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: we have no idea what would happen, right, Yeah, I 239 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: have a black hole interact. Sure, yeah, I'm somebody could 240 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: probably run some kind of simulation of it, but as 241 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: long as they don't do it for real. I think 242 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: also the idea of these wandering black holes all around 243 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: the Earth, that that that's basically sci fi. We have 244 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: no reason to think there's anything like that near the 245 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: Earth or in the Solar System. Yeah. I just don't 246 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: go near the center of the galaxy, that's all, because 247 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: the question would be how could it um in night? 248 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: Maybe not, but in two thousand and fourteen, there would 249 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: be ways to find evidence of those things if they 250 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: existed this close to us. Um. There's another idea here that, 251 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: as uh an armchair folklorist, I found fascinating and uh 252 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: it is the original local explanation for the Tunguska event 253 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: that depends on neither extraterrestrials nor mad science. Yeah, that's right, 254 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: we're talking about God's here. Everybody. This is exciting. There's 255 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: no reason that the only mythology we should take seriously 256 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: is technological mythology. Absolutely, I mean I'd say, let's talk 257 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: about the gods on even footing with with tesla and 258 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: black holes and aliens. Okay, so what is the idea. 259 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: What did the locals, or at least the locals who 260 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: believed in this belief happened at the Tungusco bent Oh? Yeah, well, 261 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: they they placed the blame of this on a god 262 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: named og which again I'm probably mispronouncing Od being a 263 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: thunder god whom they believed was summoned. Uh and in 264 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: a visitation to the area cursed it. Uh. There's an 265 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: interesting uh shamanic chant that comes to us, translated via 266 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: Dieter Hoffman, a professor of Siberian ethnography at Hamburg University. Um, 267 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: the shaman is vastily zun cool and uh. This has 268 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: a bit of um. It's kind of an invocation to o. 269 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: D uh. Do you guys want to read it? Are 270 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: you ready? Oh? I don't know. Are you ready? Listener? 271 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: Because it's about to get epic in here, all right? 272 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: The God comes, The God comes, The earth trembles in 273 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: fear at the coming of odd. The earth rises and 274 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: falls beneath my feet like waves of water. My place 275 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: of purification is overthrown my lodge, bulls toppling. The God comes. 276 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: The God calls out, blinding bright, His tongue lashes the sky. 277 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: His roar booms off the hills. The heavens ring with it. 278 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: Ogd is calling his avatar from the lower world. The 279 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: earth at my feet tears open at the touch of 280 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: his fiery tongue. The God calls out, heating the God's call, 281 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: The Avatar arises night walkers, spawn of Darkness, beast of 282 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: evil heart from the lower world. He arises, insatiable, all 283 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: devouring as wild dogs, tearing and entrails of their kill, 284 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: eating the God's call. The Avatar arise. Some man, I 285 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: really like that. That's that is awesome apocalyptic poetry. Seriously, 286 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: I wish, I really wish we had more of that 287 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: kind of imagery, just a colorful imagery in our mythology. 288 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: I got nothing like that here. I mean, there's some 289 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: pretty there, there's some pretty heavily and I guess the 290 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: right world would be epic or metal. There's some pretty 291 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: metal parts of most religions. Oh yeah, I'm just what 292 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: I would say, is that believing stuff like oh it 293 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: was aliens or o Tesla was testing his death. Ray 294 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: has no poetry like that. Yeah, so you know that's 295 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: a that's a good point. Um. And also I like 296 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: the idea that what we're looking at when we see 297 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: these three different explanations is a various groups of people 298 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: are attempting to explain an inexplicable event through the lens 299 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: of the way they see the world right through a framework. 300 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: It also helped the place the enormous loss of life 301 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: and property in perspective. So they thought some shaman had 302 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: foolishly uh called on ogdi and that was the root 303 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 1: of the problem. Now, they didn't really talk about this 304 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: for a while though. Um, we didn't really have an investigation, 305 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: certainly not in nineteen o eight, right, No, But years 306 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: later we finally did. Okay, So I guess it's time 307 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: to talk about what really happened in nineteen o eight. 308 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: What was the Tonguska event? We know it was an explosion, fire, heat, thunder, 309 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: shock waves from the sky. What was it in reality? Okay? 310 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: So it seems like the first scientific expedition to the 311 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: area happened in ninete when Leoni Coolik hit the scene 312 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: and he was looking for a crater. Because the basic 313 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: idea in mainstream science was this was a meteor. It 314 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: was it was a rock from space that descended, descended 315 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: into the app sphere and hit the ground somewhere and 316 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: blew up. So massive impact event. Uh And there might 317 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: have been then there. They're definitely still to some degree 318 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: is today debate about what the nature of this object 319 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: from space was. It Was it an asteroid, a largely 320 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: rocky body, or was it a comet like a ball 321 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: of ice and dust. But the main ideas something from 322 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: space came into the atmosphere blew up, so he wanted 323 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: to go find where it hit. And it turns out 324 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: when he actually did get to find it, because I 325 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: believe there were multiple expeditions before he actually found it. Uh. 326 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: So once he got to the area, it was not 327 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: hard to find ground zero because there were about more 328 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: than eight hundred square miles about two thousands square kilometers 329 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: of trees that were affected by this explosion, basically in 330 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: a bull's eye shape. So when you entered the area 331 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: from the outer circle, the forest turned into a landscape 332 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: of flattened trees, trees knocked flat against the ground all 333 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: outward in the same direction going out from the middle. Obviously, 334 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: it would be pretty easy to know what direction you 335 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: need to go. It would be amazing. I just want 336 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: to say, to walk through that, Yeah, it would be cool. Yeah. 337 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: And so it followed eight hundred square miles I mean yeah, 338 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: and as as you said, that's that's the rough festivals, 339 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: it's more than that. Yeah, yeah, I think it was more. 340 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: It was like eight hundred and twenty or eight hundred 341 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 1: square miles. But so they proceeded inward and found towards 342 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: the center of the bulls eye scorched tree trunk standing 343 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: straight up with no branches, just stripped branches gone like 344 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: charred telephone poles. I mean, what on earth? But how 345 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: interesting that they weren't knocked over the way the ones 346 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: on the outside. Right. But the branches are one of 347 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: the biggest piece is of evidence too, because that only occurred, 348 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 1: um that wouldn't occur again that we have documentation of 349 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 1: until Hiroshima um when Yeah, because of the speed and 350 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: the pressure knocked the branches off before it could translate 351 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: that to the trunk. So it's like getting hit so 352 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: hard that your arms fall off before you feel it 353 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: in your chest. Yeah. So if you think about this, though, 354 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: what it suggests is not an impact on the ground, 355 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: but an explosion from above. And here's where we get 356 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: to what has become the accepted theory of the Tunguska 357 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: event UH in the years since. Scientists today are pretty 358 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: much all in agreement that what happened there Something entered 359 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 1: the atmosphere from space and it blew up before it 360 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: hit the ground. May it just heated to the point 361 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: that it completely exploded, and then the downward shock wave 362 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: stripped and scorched the trees below it. As the shock 363 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: waves spread out, it was it would turn horizontal in 364 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: its direction and knocked down the trees for those hundreds 365 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: of miles. And the questions that this leaves us with 366 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,959 Speaker 1: the things like what would have happened if it had 367 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: actually hit the ground. NASA has some pretty interesting information 368 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: on this and and the current theory is that this 369 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 1: was this rock was about a hundred and twenty feet across, 370 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: and that it was traveling at a speed in excess 371 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: of thirty three thousand miles prour about thirty three point 372 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: five thousand and UH that that it weighed two hundred 373 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: and twenty million pounds. Now these are all estimates, of course, 374 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: based on UH, based on the best forensic data. They 375 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: can pull. But uh still, even if it that is 376 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: just in the area of of the correct numbers, that 377 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: that is frightening. The craziest number was the next one, 378 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: the idea that it heated the surrounding air to four 379 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: thousand five degrees fahrenheit. That's that's yeah, yeah, well, I 380 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: mean it's it's very common for things entering the atmosphere 381 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: to burn up upon entry. You've heard about this before, 382 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: and uh it's often believed that the reason is friction, right, 383 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: but that's actually I've recently found out that's not true. 384 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 1: That it's it has to do with compression heating. So 385 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: it's traveling so fast against the thick air of our 386 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: atmosphere that it's smashing the air in front of it, 387 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: uh so fast. The air heats up to these incredible temperatures, 388 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: and the thing catches on fire and the outside surfaces 389 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: of it get melted. And sometimes if it gets hot enough, 390 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: and if it's composed in the right way and all 391 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: the conditions are just right, it'll just explode. See. That's 392 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: why when I re enter Earth's atmos sphere, I go slow. 393 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: It's the long con you know what I mean, Like, 394 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: I get down here safely, but it takes a month easy. 395 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: I really want to see schematics and diagrams of how 396 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: you do that. Then well, you know, they say, if 397 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 1: they're gonna build a space elevator, one thing that's gonna 398 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: be disappointing about it is it's gonna take you at 399 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: the very least days to get to space. Yeah, because 400 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: you can't go fast up and down this thing. It's 401 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 1: kind and I think that's actually that's technological limitation at 402 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: this point, but it seems like you might not want 403 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: to go fast up and down. They're probably areas where 404 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: you can speed up a little bit, and then you'll 405 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: have to slow down again and then speed up again. 406 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: I mean, if we're still talking human enterprise, it will 407 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: be traffic jams. People's space elevator pods will break down. 408 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: It'll be really tough to go fast, to go quickly, 409 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: even when you have the technology. But you know, maybe 410 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: we shouldn't. It reminds me a little bit of do 411 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: you guys remember Dune, How they had the force fields 412 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: for five and you couldn't the force fields would stop 413 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: a blunt trying. You guys are both staring at me. 414 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I've never read dude, somebody out there. Ladies 415 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: and gentlemen, you guys know what I'm talking about. But um, 416 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: going back to the object at hand, Yeah, really fast. 417 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: So this is fascinating. Also to me, NASA believes that 418 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: it exploded at at a height of twenty eight thousand feet, 419 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: which okay, so I'm just trying to understand this thing 420 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: that weighs millions of pounds at least according to NASA, 421 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 1: explodes that high up in the sky and it's still 422 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: is able to wreak such massive destruction on the ground. Yeah, 423 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: that to me is terrifying, and it does make you 424 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: think about nuclear weapons tests and other times nuclear weapons 425 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: have been used and exploded in the sky. Yeah. Well, 426 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: as with many great natural explosions, science communicators often have 427 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: to frame it in terms of how many atomic bombs 428 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: or how many an hydrogen bombs? Uh. They did, I 429 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: believe this the same quote you got from NASA did that. 430 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: They said basically that the explosion of this object from 431 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: space released the energy equivalent to quote A hundred and 432 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: eighty five Hiroshima bombs, which just foggles the mind. Uh. 433 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: And again that that further reinforces how astonishing it is 434 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: is a point that you made earlier, Joe, that no 435 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: one died as far as we know, as far as 436 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: someone might have that we don't know about, but there's 437 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: there's no record that I could find that anyone, any 438 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: person was killed. I'm sure lots of animals were. So 439 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: what what then? Uh? What then do we we arrive 440 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: at when the in the ongoing debate over what sort 441 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: of space rock this is? Slash was Well, there are 442 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: arguments that it was a comet, and there are arguments 443 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,959 Speaker 1: that it was an asteroid rocky meteorite, and there are 444 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: arguments in both directions. I believe the favored hypothesis these 445 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: days is that it was a rocky rocky meteor and 446 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: an asteroid type body, based on fragments that have now 447 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: been found and analyzed by which, of course we mean 448 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: rocky as in composed of rock, not as in the 449 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: original records that later became the Rocky franchise sent sent 450 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: to us from space, which I would be okay with, 451 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: but you know I'd be surprised, Okay. So here's my question. 452 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to sound like a dumb dum over here, 453 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: but from what I what I was looking at, there 454 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be any kind of crater. Right we 455 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: at the center of the Bullseye area, there are trees 456 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: standing up. There's not an impact creator or anything. No, 457 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: So I just want to understand better why why it was. 458 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: Why the thought is that it was a rocky creator 459 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: or a rocky asteroid from fragments, I mean, because that 460 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,959 Speaker 1: it exploded and burned with such energy, I believe the 461 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: thinking is that there there were no huge fragments left 462 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: to leave a gigantic crater. I did read there there's 463 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: one lake near the area that some people wonder. I 464 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,239 Speaker 1: wonder if a very small fragment of the of the 465 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: meteor impacted here. Maybe it was just like a few 466 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: feet wide, impacting with high energy and created the crater 467 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: that's now this lake. But I don't think that's very 468 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: well established. It's just kind of a theory. Crater lake 469 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: doesn't hold water all right, Um, And there are fragments 470 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: all over the place. Also, you you could see what 471 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: happened to this in dust that you can find all 472 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,479 Speaker 1: over the place. So I mean it this mass, A 473 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: lot of it landed on the surface of the Earth, 474 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: but just not not not in a piece big enough 475 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: that you can usually tell, but yeah, they they found 476 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: they found traces of whatever this thing was all over 477 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: the place, and the peat bogs in the Tunguska area 478 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: under it, there are samples of rocks that appear to 479 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: be meteoric in origin um and I believe I've also 480 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: read that there were layers of of cosmic dust, the 481 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: kind of dust you would find after a large impact 482 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: from space, found in ice cores around the area dating 483 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: back to about the time. So it seems pretty straightforward 484 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: that this was an object from space, maybe a comment, 485 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: more likely a rocky meteor. And so are you are 486 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: you saying it probably wasn't the gods, Probably wasn't the gods, 487 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: probably wasn't Tesla, probably wasn't aliens or a black hole. 488 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: But that makes it no less creepy, because instead, what 489 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: we walk away with is the idea that there are 490 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: things out there in space that with pretty regular frequency 491 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: are going to come into our atmosphere, and they're that big, 492 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: and they come in with that much speed and energy, 493 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: and if something like the Tunguska event were to happen 494 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: over say a major city, I mean, that's game over. Yeah, 495 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: and it could, uh, it could easily. There's some geopolitical 496 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: dangers there as well, because depending upon which city it 497 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: hits UH and which countries they are allies or rivals 498 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: with UH, than it could escalate immediately. Yeah, I would 499 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,719 Speaker 1: say we have much better ability now to predict impacts, 500 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: like now we have NASA's Near Earth Object program that 501 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: tracks all of the objects within range of Earth that 502 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: we that are large enough for us to detect. Yes, 503 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: so I mean we're we're somewhat better prepared than we 504 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: were in nineteen o eight. But that's that's comparing, of course. Uh, 505 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: that's comparing a little bit better vision and no real 506 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 1: protection to uh, no vision and no real protection. I mean, well, no, actually, 507 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: we do have a very important line of defense. Bruce 508 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: Willis is still that's right, you're I keep forgetting um okay, Well, 509 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: once he passes on, we we are truly naked to 510 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: the fury of the universe, of the uncarring dark, inky void. 511 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: But um, but there there's some other things here. Because uh, 512 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,959 Speaker 1: let's let's explore this just a little bit. Uh. I 513 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: can't remember who wrote this very strange theory that was 514 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: entirely speculative about UM maybe impact events being the most 515 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: lethal threat to intelligent life on planets and said, hey, 516 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: maybe the reason that we have never heard from some 517 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: other intelligent life out there in the vast chasms of 518 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,479 Speaker 1: time and space is because, uh, no intelligent life can 519 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,239 Speaker 1: survive on a planet long enough to involve that kind 520 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: of technology before something, some impact of it occurs and 521 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: blows the house of cards down. Yeah, well, that that's 522 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: one of those many possible solutions to the so called 523 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: Fermi paradox, the paradox of Okay, so if we can 524 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: set up a kind of basic probability of guessing how 525 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: many alien civilizations we'd expect to see out there, again, 526 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: all the variables we plug into this our guesses, so 527 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: there's really no way to know. But you say, well, 528 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: there sure are a lot of stars and a lot 529 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: of planets out there. Seems like there should be some 530 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: life out there. We're listening and it sounds like nobody's home. 531 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: There's nothing coming in. So either you've got to say, well, 532 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: maybe a life evolving on on planets is fairly rare, 533 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: or maybe there is a lot of life, but then 534 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: becoming technologically intelligent is rare, Or maybe there's some reason 535 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: they don't want to transmit, or maybe there's some reason 536 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: that the universe, or at least our galaxy, is not 537 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: very kind to the life forms that do evolve, and 538 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: so the ones that do evolve, or at least have 539 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: the potential to evolve the technological capability to contact us 540 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,239 Speaker 1: are smashed by asteroids before they get the chance. And 541 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: we're just pretty durn lucky to have made it this far. 542 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: And we have to remember how long it takes for 543 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: signals to reach fast distances. That's true, so perhaps there's 544 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: somebody trying to communicate. It's just it hasn't gotten We'll 545 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: get it a billion years later. God, I feel so 546 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: emo right now talking about that. But but we also 547 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: know that impact events themselves aren't the only threats, and 548 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: we can as as you said, we can predict um 549 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: now more than ever. We have okay prediction skills um. 550 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: But there are things that would happen so quickly that 551 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: we couldn't stop them. If we're talking about the end 552 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: of the world, right, So what if instead of traveling 553 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: at like thirty something thousand miles per hour, your incoming 554 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: event is traveling at the speed of light. When something's 555 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: traveling towards you at the speed of light, you can't 556 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: see it until it hits you. Oh yeah, so what 557 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: might travel what what I kill? Thing might travel towards 558 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 1: the Earth at the speed of light, maybe a gamma 559 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 1: ray burst and uh the pop quiz. They won't turn 560 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,439 Speaker 1: us into the Hulk or she Hulk or anything like that. 561 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: They will simply end life as we know it, depending 562 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: on the circumstances. Yeah, I feel like I don't need 563 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 1: to tell your listeners this, but that's the thing that 564 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people get confused about in pop culture. 565 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:30,240 Speaker 1: Radiation doesn't give you superpowers. It just kills you. Right, Yeah, 566 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 1: so far, Matt, you're okay. Oh sorry, I didn't mean 567 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: to be say I'm okay, because you know what, I 568 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,919 Speaker 1: survived the massive CME s that hit us a couple 569 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: of days ago. Ah, here we go. C ME. What's 570 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: that stand for? A coronal mass ejection, my friend? Happens 571 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: when the sun has these fun little things that it 572 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: happens when the Sun decides to throw up in our 573 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: general direction. Uh, just a bunch of its energy and particles, 574 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: charged particles, and they just fly towards the Earth. They 575 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 1: don't always fly towards the Earth because you gotta imagine 576 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,800 Speaker 1: the scale of the Sun to the Earth. It's pretty 577 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: rare that the Earth gets hit by a massive CME. Okay, 578 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: what are the dangers of that that? Oh, you know, 579 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: it could just fry most of our electrical grid and 580 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: depending on where it hits. And when I say fry, 581 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: I mean it could just take out the wiring that's 582 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: going along your street outside your house, it can just 583 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: fry that stuff. And a short circuit anything that uses 584 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: you know, like this computer that Joe's using, just fry 585 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: all the circuits in there. Can make even make your 586 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: car not work sometimes depending on how your car functions. 587 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: I mean, my car does a pretty good job of 588 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: not working now, so, but yeah, but those things are 589 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,800 Speaker 1: pretty creepy. And we got hit by two X class 590 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: Uh there were two X class solar flares that shot 591 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: off these massive CMEs a couple of days ago. I 592 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: didn't even know that. Yeah, and they they both impacted Earth. 593 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: But everything seems to be okay. The northern lights went 594 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: a little crazy, but we're okay. Well, thank you atmosphere, 595 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:07,200 Speaker 1: I guess and timing and uh, we no matter what 596 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: we do at this point, technologically we are sort of 597 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: in the hands of fate or accident. Uh, and that 598 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: to me, uh and to you guys too, I think 599 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: is one of the most surprising, frightening, and a little 600 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: bit exciting things about the world in which we live. 601 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: The Tunguska event has been explained pretty well by this point. However, 602 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: other impact events in the future are a statistical certainty 603 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: after you know, after some amount of time it's going 604 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: to happen. Um. The only question is what will the 605 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: magnitude be and what will our level of technology be? 606 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: Will we all be on the same planet there, There's 607 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: some big questions that we would like to carry forward 608 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: and answer. Um. But first, Joe have to say thank 609 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: you so much for Green to come on our show. 610 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: Joe would only come on if we agreed to uh 611 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: do the chant to augd who may or may not 612 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,680 Speaker 1: was just kidding about all that. I'd love to come 613 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,799 Speaker 1: on and talk about all kinds of weird stuff with 614 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: you guys. That was a complete lie. I only talk 615 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: about this well. I I don't know about you listeners, 616 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 1: but I think I would like to have Joe back 617 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: on again. That this was a lot of fun. Uh. 618 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: Please write us and let us know uh if you 619 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: want us to do this again. Because I'm down. Yeah. 620 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: We uh, we always love to hear from you guys. 621 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: As you know, our best ideas come from our audience. 622 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed listening to Joe McCormick as much as 623 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: Matt and I have today, then do go check out 624 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: their podcasts Forward Thinking. Uh. This podcast covers all of 625 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: the what what would you say, Joe? Well, I would 626 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: say that we don't take quite as dark an approach 627 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: as you guys. Sometimes. We're typically focused on on cutting 628 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,920 Speaker 1: edge technology and the Future podcast about science, technology in 629 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: the future and what life is gonna look like in 630 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: twenty years. So are you saying the future is looking 631 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:16,240 Speaker 1: pretty bright? Um? I'm saying that, contrary to the predominant 632 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: mood these days, there's no necessary reason to be pessimistic 633 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: about the future. You can go either way, and I 634 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: think it's perfectly reasonable to not take a dystopian attitude. Absolutely, yeah, 635 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 1: because uh, you know, we often hear about the bad 636 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: stuff because that's what sells, UM. But the truth is 637 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 1: that there there are quite a few amazing innovations on 638 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: the way, UM in laboratories across the world, R and 639 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: D places across the world. I mean, heck, uh, if 640 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: Ray Kurzwild turns out to be right. I'm not even 641 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: gonna say it. I know that gets under some people's 642 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: skin there, but do check out Joe's show if you 643 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: would like to write to us, or if you have 644 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: a question for Joe, we'd love to hear from you. 645 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: You and find us on Facebook. You can find us 646 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 1: on Twitter. And that's the end of this classic episode. 647 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, 648 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 1: you can get into contact with us in a number 649 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: of different ways. One of the best is to give 650 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: us a call. Our number is one eight three three 651 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: std w y t K. If you don't want to 652 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,240 Speaker 1: do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. 653 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff 654 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: they Don't want you to Know is a production of 655 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 656 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 657 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.