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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Nol.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff

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Speaker 3: they don't want you to know. Friends and neighbors, fellow

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Speaker 3: conspiracy realists, it's time for some strange news. If you're

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Speaker 3: hanging with us the evening, our program publishes Welcome to December, gentlemen.

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Speaker 3: It's December first, as we're going live with this.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, right now, it's November twenty seven, and Thanksgiving

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Speaker 4: is like tomorrow, I think, right, that's the one that

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Speaker 4: moves around the movable feast.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Here in the United States, it's a it's a

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Speaker 3: problematic holiday for a lot of reasons, but it's also

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Speaker 3: it's also a time when you know, it's it's like

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Speaker 3: the kickoff of that part of the year in the

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Speaker 3: States where people tend to be a little bit nicer

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Speaker 3: to each other that that halcyon period between Thanksgiving all

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Speaker 3: the way up to the end of the year. So

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Speaker 3: we hope that you as you're hearing this, if you're

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Speaker 3: in the States, you have already celebrated Thanksgiving. We hope

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Speaker 3: that you had an okay time, you know. We hope

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Speaker 3: you got to hang with your family, your friends, your

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Speaker 3: chosen loved ones, and we hope that you're ready to

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Speaker 3: get strange. Actually, oh, you know what we should say

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Speaker 3: at the top, do you guys recall ice cream?

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Speaker 2: Ice cream?

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Speaker 3: Because because the United States sure does recall ice cream illegal?

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Speaker 4: Is it being outlogged? Is it just true decadents?

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Speaker 3: It's uh, there is a nationwide ice cream recall that

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Speaker 3: just got issued. This is breaking news. As of like

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Speaker 3: five thirty am local time, two day, November twenty six,

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Speaker 3: as we record, the FDA has issued a sweeping recall,

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Speaker 3: the second highest risk warning for Jenny's Splendid ice Cream.

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Speaker 3: We love.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they're like local, I mean, aren't they. Maybe they

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Speaker 4: weren't formed here, but we were one of the first

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Speaker 4: places I ever heard of them being. And oh they're beloved.

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Speaker 3: Dang it with labor well primarily no, they're looking at

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Speaker 3: passion fruit dreamsickle ice cream bars not necessarily a Thanksgiving

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Speaker 3: staple like cranberry sauce or what have you. But Jenny's

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Speaker 3: Splendid ice Creams is based in Ohio, and the the

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Speaker 3: reason for or the recall is thankfully not too too terrible.

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Speaker 3: Undeclared allergens wheat and soy and did their initial recall notice,

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Speaker 3: the FDA warned people who have an allergy or severe

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Speaker 3: sensitivity to soy and or we run the risk of

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Speaker 3: serious or life threatening allergic reactions if they consume these products.

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Speaker 3: So hopefully everybody is on the safe side.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I was gonna say so people who actually have

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Speaker 2: silly ecs, not you know, people like me sometimes who

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Speaker 2: feel like they might have it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, which still remains a murky medical condition, especially

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Speaker 3: around the Thanksgiving holidays.

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Speaker 4: Or you don't know what's in that stuff, some of

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Speaker 4: the extra.

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Speaker 3: Glue, mm hmm. Yeah, that's true. We're telling you this

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Speaker 3: entirely because we thought it was a sick, a sick

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Speaker 3: way to introduce it by saying, do you recall ice cream?

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Speaker 3: Because the US government sure does. We have so much

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Speaker 3: to get to. We've got some stuff about technology. We've

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Speaker 3: got of course, some more government stuff. We've got some

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Speaker 3: strange intersections of religion, a couple of coups. One that

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Speaker 3: is occurring in getting Bissau right now as we record,

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Speaker 3: we'll probably not get to that. But guys, what if

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Speaker 3: we just take a break for a word from our

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Speaker 3: sponsors and then figure out, uh, maybe who's behind all

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Speaker 3: those Twitter accounts.

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Speaker 4: Let's do it.

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Speaker 3: And we have returned. All right? This is this is

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Speaker 3: an interesting story that just went live a few days

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Speaker 3: earlier on November twenty third. As we have discussed in

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Speaker 3: previous episodes, like dead Internet theory or bots and disinfo activities,

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Speaker 3: you can be almost anyone you want to be on

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Speaker 3: the Internet right now, right, pick a platform, state your

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Speaker 3: claim on a name, right, plant your flag, and you

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Speaker 3: call yourself the real Bob Dylan or something whatever you

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Speaker 3: can get away with, and then people will often tend

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Speaker 3: to believe you. They'll tend to believe that you are

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Speaker 3: who you purport to be. This brings us to something

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Speaker 3: that we we kind of predicted and feels like it's

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Speaker 3: an open secret. But we should go to Jack Revel,

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Speaker 3: reporting for The Daily Beast on November twenty third, the

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Speaker 3: headline top Maga influencers accidentally unmasked as foreign trolls at

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Speaker 3: So here's what's going down. A false flag situation, Eh, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 3: planting a false flag elon Musk Social media site x

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Speaker 3: right formerly Twitter, rolled out a new feature that was

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Speaker 3: meant to increase transparency. It's called about this Account, and

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Speaker 3: it became available to everybody on x quite recently. It

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Speaker 3: allows you, as a individual X account holder, to see

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Speaker 3: where any given account is based. You can also see

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Speaker 3: when that account joined the platform, how often they may

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Speaker 3: or may not have changed their username, and how they

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Speaker 3: got the X app in the first place. And so,

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Speaker 3: because Twitter is a minefield of reactionary, crazy, belligerent stuff,

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Speaker 3: it's no surprise that a lot of people who have

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Speaker 3: their own kind of armies or factions started looking into

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Speaker 3: each other and low and behold, what they found was

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Speaker 3: a lot of influencers, especially weirdly enough, especially political right

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Speaker 3: wing influencers here in the United States are not based

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Speaker 3: in the United States. They are not run like the

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Speaker 3: thing that says you know, Maga mom, or the thing

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Speaker 3: that says Veteran Daddy seventeen seventy six is going to

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Speaker 3: be based in Eastern Europe, or maybe Bangladesh.

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Speaker 4: Maga daddy. Yeah, this is very much in line with

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Speaker 4: a lot of the accusations that we're flying around about

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Speaker 4: Russian influence, you know, helping out the right m hm.

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Speaker 4: And you know the results of that contentious election. No,

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Speaker 4: not the last one, the one before that, right, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And go back last one too, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's a pattern for a while. You go back to,

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Speaker 3: as I was saying, go back to our episode on

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Speaker 3: Russia's influence on the civil rights movement in the US,

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Speaker 3: and you'll see disinfo and info war tactics are indeed

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Speaker 3: older than the Internet. In one example, our journalists found

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Speaker 3: an account called Maga Nation X had a little Bit

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Speaker 3: South for four hundred thousand followers, and the bio, you know,

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Speaker 3: you get your little logline bio on this platform. The

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Speaker 3: bio said patriot voice for we the people. That account

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Speaker 3: is based in Eastern Europe, and it's just I don't

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Speaker 3: know where we go with this. There are still a

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Speaker 3: lot of questions about why X rolled this out. There

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Speaker 3: are a lot of questions about what this means for transparency,

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Speaker 3: what it means for things like Avonka News, which is

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Speaker 3: an account that has a million followers. It frequently posts

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Speaker 3: islamophobic stuff. It rails against the dangers of illegal immigration.

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Speaker 3: It is an account based in Nigeria.

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Speaker 2: Is it meant to be linked to Ivanka Trump? Is

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Speaker 2: that the idea?

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Speaker 3: It's a fan account for Avanka Trump, so it's not

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Speaker 3: purporting to be actual Levanka Prime?

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Speaker 4: Cool?

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Speaker 3: Is it?

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Speaker 2: Well? I mean, at least the information you've given me

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Speaker 2: helps me understand what this is.

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Speaker 4: I think the implication here is that this is a

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Speaker 4: positive move on the part of X and I've seen

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Speaker 4: it applauded, you know, by various you know, supporters of

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Speaker 4: Internet transparency. Is that what you're thinking as well?

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Speaker 3: Been well, I would I would tend to agree with you.

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Speaker 3: At least the end result is a net positive for transparency,

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Speaker 3: for unmasking shenanigans and conspirators. As far as the other

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Speaker 3: part of your question, whether there's something else to it,

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Speaker 3: it's a little early to tell, you know, why, how

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Speaker 3: this sausage got made. It does hopefully lend the average

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Speaker 3: Internet user a bit more awareness right of who is

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Speaker 3: saying what, and it leads you to ask, why is

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Speaker 3: this person not who they're pretending to be and why

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Speaker 3: are they pushing this thing?

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Speaker 4: Int specific you guys, have you heard the argument made

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Speaker 4: by like, you know, Internet like just pure free speech

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Speaker 4: purists that anonymity is also something that should be part

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Speaker 4: of that free speech or I'm cured because it's it's

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Speaker 4: it seems like people that are purely about free speech

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Speaker 4: would also be about the transparency of knowing who's doing.

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Speaker 3: The speech, right. Yeah, and we have to question the

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Speaker 3: intentions or the motivations of people who are arguing completely

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Speaker 3: for unhinged anonymity online. But then we also have to

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Speaker 3: it's a real bag of badgers. Because we've talked about

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Speaker 3: this at length in previous episodes or in Listener Mailer

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Speaker 3: and Strange News. There are continual crackdowns on online anonymity,

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Speaker 3: and they're often they're often linked to big government kind

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Speaker 3: of stuff, right like you have to upload your driver's

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Speaker 3: license that happened for adult content, or in places like

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Speaker 3: the United Kingdom or parts of Western Europe, there's a

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Speaker 3: move to require everybody to have a verified identity online.

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Speaker 3: And it's weird too, Without going too far in the

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Speaker 3: weeds on it, it's weird too because we know that

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Speaker 3: at least in the United States and in most of

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Speaker 3: Western Europe, if a powerful enough force wants to figure

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Speaker 3: out who you are, they're going to do it. Between

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Speaker 3: the metadata between all your connected devices, between the fact

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Speaker 3: that your ISP is going to snitch on you immediately

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Speaker 3: and so hard and so completely, there's not there. There

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Speaker 3: hasn't been a way to really be anonymous on the

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Speaker 3: Internet for quite some time. You know, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It's an important argument, but it's also a layered onion

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Speaker 3: esque argument. Still, it's a crazy play in right to

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Speaker 3: make everybody easily identifiable to everybody else on the world

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Speaker 3: Wide Web. We do know, as we discussed pretty recently,

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Speaker 3: we do know that people will act differently when they

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Speaker 3: know they're not anonymous, right when they know it's it's not.

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Speaker 3: We know that Filin Dagan is actually Dylan Fagan. Dylan Fagan,

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Speaker 3: according to the studies, is going to be a much

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Speaker 3: more well behaved person. It's very true, you think so, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I do agree one hundred percent.

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Speaker 4: Does this also maybe go hand in hand a little

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Speaker 4: tiny bit with moves to have to verify users of

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Speaker 4: adult websites in certain states. I know that's more of

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Speaker 4: like state by state, but it does feel like maybe

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Speaker 4: we're starting to see a little bit of a push

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Speaker 4: towards more accountability and transparency. I don't know, maybe I'm

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Speaker 4: just being pie in the sky like you.

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Speaker 3: No, you're right. As we mentioned just a few minutes ago,

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Speaker 3: the idea of having to verify specific real world identity

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Speaker 3: for adult content, that's one of those steps that everybody

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Speaker 3: can agree with. The precedents that we were alluding to

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Speaker 3: in the United Kingdom came under the guise of protected

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Speaker 3: children right stop terrorism, things that again every voter can't

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Speaker 3: agree with. But look, it would still be a crazy

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Speaker 3: ambitious plan to have absolute, verifiable real world identities for

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Speaker 3: every Internet user, because simply put, a ton of Internet

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Speaker 3: users and accounts right now are not human. But speaking

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Speaker 3: of crazy plans, oh my gosh, for a segue, we're

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Speaker 3: talking about this off air. We found a crazy plan,

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Speaker 3: fellow conspiracy realist that you may not have heard about.

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Speaker 3: The headline Texas men indicted in plot to take over

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Speaker 3: a Haitian island and enslave women and children. I think

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Speaker 3: we've all read a little bit about this one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of the craziest stories that have just

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Speaker 2: popped in there in a long time, because because it's

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Speaker 2: so it's such a small thing, but then it has

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Speaker 2: massive implications, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly all right, So here here we go.

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Speaker 3: There is an island you may not have heard of,

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Speaker 3: called gnov g O n a ve E. It is

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Speaker 3: part of the Republic of Haiti. If you look at

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Speaker 3: the map of Haiti, you'll see we all know the

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Speaker 3: shape of the country. Right, it looks like someone's holding

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Speaker 3: up It looks like someone is forming half a circle

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Speaker 3: with their hand and in the middle of that with

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Speaker 3: a very long thumb granted, in the middle of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: there's there's an island right there, separated by the water

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Speaker 3: controlled by Haiti. You know what it Also, it looks

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Speaker 3: kind of like maybe uh fish about to eat a

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Speaker 3: piece of fish food, right, anglerfish, Yeah, deep sea anglers.

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Speaker 3: So this is this is the island, the little pellet

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Speaker 3: we're talking about that looks like the map is eating.

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Speaker 3: Between August of twenty twenty four in July twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 3: two very young guys, Gavin Weisenberg and Tanner Thomas of Argyle, Texas,

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Speaker 3: have been scheming to organize a military mercenary force and

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Speaker 3: take over this island in its entirety. And the reason

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Speaker 3: they wanted to do It was not for democracy, was

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Speaker 3: not for you know, some greater good or even resource extraction.

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Speaker 3: They wanted to murder every adult male on the island

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Speaker 3: and turn all of the other people into their sex slaves.

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Speaker 3: This is not Internet scuttle butt. This is coming to

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Speaker 3: us from the US Attorney's office in the Eastern District

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Speaker 3: of Texas.

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Speaker 4: They have like some buddies to help them out with this.

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Speaker 4: I know, yeah, that seems like a lot. Did you

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Speaker 4: mention that there are a couple of twenty somethings.

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Speaker 3: They're quite young.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Gavin Wisenberg is twenty one. He's from Allen, Texas. And

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Speaker 3: Tanner Thomas is twenty or was twenty at the time

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Speaker 3: from Argyle. They've been charged with conspiracy to murder, mame

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Speaker 3: or kidnap in a foreign country, as well as the

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Speaker 3: production of child sexual abuse material. This is both disturbing

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Speaker 3: and absurd. They had planned to purchase a sailboat, firearms ammunition,

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Speaker 3: and then to fill out their mercenary force. They said, oh,

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Speaker 3: we'll recruit homeless people in Washington, DC.

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Speaker 2: Wow, it seems like such a crackpot.

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Speaker 4: This as crackpot as they come. I want to see

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Speaker 4: the movie. I mean jeez, Louise.

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess how do you get the funding for

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Speaker 2: set operation? And you will need funding because we're talking

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Speaker 2: about a lot of shipping, right or at least move

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Speaker 2: They said they were going to move things by sailboat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, which means you also have to learn to sail.

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Speaker 3: You also have to buy a sailboat or you're gonna cheat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah right, anybody who is into sailing, guys, you know, financially,

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Speaker 3: it's a terrible investment. Yeah, you know, it's like as

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Speaker 3: far as yeah, money, as far as like your quality

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Speaker 3: of life, your happiness getting out there on the water, cool, dope, awesome,

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Speaker 3: ten ten, no notes, but you're probably gonna lose money

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Speaker 3: and it is an expensive endeavor. And additionally to your point, uh,

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Speaker 3: one of the guys actually traveled to Thailand and he

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Speaker 3: was planning to learn to sail. But speaking of funding,

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Speaker 3: he never enrolled in lessons because they were too expensive.

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Speaker 4: Believe both of these dudes, like, we're trying to learn

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Speaker 4: the language for when they stay this coup or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, learn a specific form of creole. Thomas

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Speaker 3: enlisted in the Air Force in January, at least per

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Speaker 3: the indictment, and if you look back on the social

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Speaker 3: media interplay dialogue between these guys, he explicitly told Weisenberg, Hey,

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Speaker 3: I'm joining the USAF so that I can learn stuff

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Speaker 3: we can use in our attack when we take over

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Speaker 3: this island. And while he was in the Air Force,

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Speaker 3: because he did get in, I mean, it's kind of

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Speaker 3: hard not to get into the military if you apply.

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Speaker 3: But when he did get in, he changed his assignment

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Speaker 3: to he requested to be stationed at Andrew's Airbase in

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Speaker 3: Maryland so that they could recruit those homeless people in DC,

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Speaker 3: which is a weird pitch, like how do you walk

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Speaker 3: up to someone and say that they're like, hey, excuse me, sir,

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Speaker 3: do you have a dollar? Or could I have a cigarette?

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Speaker 3: And you say I've got a mission.

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Speaker 4: Well, one thing I have noticed about unhoused folks in

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Speaker 4: d C is that they're real smart and real conspiratorial

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Speaker 4: and the kind of like rants you might hear from

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Speaker 4: you know, maybe some also mentally unwell folks that are

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Speaker 4: living on the streets in DC are often some of

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Speaker 4: the wildest rants and government related and conspiracy theme rants

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Speaker 4: that I've heard anywhere in the country.

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Speaker 3: So I wonder if that's how you been to d C.

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Speaker 3: How could you not be conspiratorial if you spend percent?

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Speaker 4: I just wonder if that that went into their thinking

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Speaker 4: that these were funs that they could convince to do

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Speaker 4: some crazy like this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not just people on the outs or on the

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Speaker 3: skids somewhere in Texas. They were specifically targeting DC. We

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Speaker 3: see like we see the evolution of dangerous fantasy and

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Speaker 3: cult logic here. It reminds me of an episode that

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Speaker 3: we're going to do later this month about something called

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Speaker 3: the Ripper Crew. Light spoilers, folks, and I I think

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Speaker 3: we've got to also note that Weisenberg, Gavin Weisenberg, tried

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Speaker 3: to follow along and get some training. He enrolled in

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Speaker 3: a firefighter academy in the Dallas metro area because he

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Speaker 3: thought that would be useful in the attack. But he

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Speaker 3: failed out of school. He couldn't fight the fire.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, I'm seeing lots of bumbling happening here. I

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Speaker 2: am hearing exactly what you're talking about, like fantasy concepts

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Speaker 2: of maybe some people taking substances or something and coming

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Speaker 2: up with these ideas and then trying their absolute best

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Speaker 2: to follow through on things. I wonder where the line

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Speaker 2: is between a couple of guys like this that have

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Speaker 2: a crazy idea and are like attempting and making these

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Speaker 2: bumbling attempts to do parts of it, Like, where is

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Speaker 2: the line between that kind of thing and then somebody

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Speaker 2: who's actually actively attempting to cause a coup or you know,

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Speaker 2: do this kind of thing on a smaller scale, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: it feels like the authorities came down on them too early,

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Speaker 2: maybe because it's like, what did they really do that

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Speaker 2: was bad? Other than that one? I think there's one

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Speaker 2: count of the child sexual abuse stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. What is the line?

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Speaker 3: What is the operational threshold between two disturbed people LARPing

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Speaker 3: and fantasizing and gooning with each other versus an actionable

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Speaker 3: operation or clear intent to commit a crime? And also,

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Speaker 3: aside from the CSAM, is this pre crime? It's it's

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Speaker 3: interesting because look, one thing about the United States is,

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Speaker 3: and Dylan beat me here, people talk all the time constantly.

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Speaker 3: Right now, you probably know if you're in the United States,

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Speaker 3: right you probably know in your head you can picture

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Speaker 3: them a couple of folks in your loose social sphere

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Speaker 3: that will be down to ride if you came to

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Speaker 3: them with a crazy idea. If you came to them

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Speaker 3: and you were like, uh, what's a local reference for us?

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Speaker 3: If you came to them and you were like, Carrollton

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Speaker 3: is out of control, we'll take it.

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Speaker 4: Over Coming has got to be stopped.

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Speaker 3: He has got to be stopped. No, not November, for sure.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for playing Wow you came to that. You

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Speaker 3: you know a few people who would just like crack

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Speaker 3: open a Celsius and say, I'm down, what's the plan.

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Speaker 2: There? There are a lot of proud comers out there,

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Speaker 2: just like me from coming you know, from.

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Speaker 3: All Yeah, yeah, yeah, come as you are. You know

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Speaker 3: what I mean? That's a nirvana.

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Speaker 4: Speaking of a plan though, I mean, yeah, what do

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Speaker 4: we have as far as like how are they going

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Speaker 4: to accomplish this? It's it all like it all seems

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Speaker 4: like fantasy. I just don't see how any of this

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Speaker 4: was like actionable.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, per the indictment, they did manage to recruit people loosely. Now,

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Speaker 3: of course, this is not a thing where you get

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Speaker 3: like an NDA and a binding contract or anything I'll

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Speaker 3: hold up in court. It has there has to be

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Speaker 3: something about the money, I think as well as obviously

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Speaker 3: the horrific charge of child sexual abuse material. But we

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Speaker 3: want to hear your thoughts on this, folks. It didn't happen,

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Speaker 3: but a lot of these plans get enacted, these kind

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Speaker 3: of rag tag, weird fantasy things. It reminds me of

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Speaker 3: Leonard Lake and Charles Zing.

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Speaker 2: Actually they really did.

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Speaker 3: Except they did they did end up torturing and murdering people.

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Speaker 3: This there there's the question too, like did these guys

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Speaker 3: have something in their past that had already flagged them.

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Speaker 3: Did they have some sort of financial records that maybe

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Speaker 3: ping Duncle Sam, Because that's one of the first things

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Speaker 3: that we're going to look for, you know, that's one

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Speaker 3: of the big flags for the threshold between just talking

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Speaker 3: trash and then actually maybe doing something. I think we're

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Speaker 3: asking excellent questions about how these two guys suddenly became

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Speaker 3: taken seriously right by some of the most dangerous law

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Speaker 3: enforcement on the planet. We know it probably would not

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Speaker 3: have worked first off, in terms of fantasy. It's a

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Speaker 3: really dumb plan just taking out everything else. It's a

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Speaker 3: really really not well thought out concept. Because this island

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Speaker 3: that we're talking about, it has a population of like

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Speaker 3: around eighty nine thousand ninety thousand people and just imagine

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Speaker 3: how difficult it would be to subjugate that population when

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Speaker 3: you're two dudes from Texas with a cadre of unhoused

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Speaker 3: people on the skids from Washington, DC. I imagine they

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Speaker 3: were aiming for veterans too when they were trying to recruit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just with that number of people, it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: It would have been over so fast. It would have

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Speaker 2: been a bloodbath for those dudes. And yeah, it's just

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Speaker 2: you know, it's a weird situation because the law enforcement

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Speaker 2: in this moment is basically saying, look, we're gonna protect

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Speaker 2: you guys from yourselves. Y'all are nuts, and you would

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Speaker 2: have died real fast. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great point. This island is thirty seven

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Speaker 3: miles long, it is nine miles wide. This is not

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Speaker 3: a two man job. This is not a hundred man job.

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Speaker 3: This is like, this is state level stuff. We Also,

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Speaker 3: the reason we're bringing this up, I think, is because

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Speaker 3: this captured our collective attention and it's something that just

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Speaker 3: kind of popped and ghosted the news. But there are

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Speaker 3: also so many instances of similar things, like people tried

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Speaker 3: to stage who's in the African sphere people attempting to Oh, well,

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Speaker 3: those those guys who were US sponsored attempting to stage

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Speaker 3: a coup in Venezuela which didn't work out. A lot

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Speaker 3: of stuff has happening below the fold of the proverbial paper, folks,

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Speaker 3: So keep an eye on this. Tell us your thoughts.

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Speaker 3: What's the craziest coup plan a friend of yours ever

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Speaker 3: pitched to you? Win a little bit long on this one,

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Speaker 3: but we are so interested to hear what you think.

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Speaker 3: So we're gonna pause for a word from our sponsors

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Speaker 3: and we'll return with more strange news.

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Speaker 4: And we're back. Man, it's a boy, Ben. That was

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Speaker 4: a fascinating segment, and I've got some kind of pretty

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Speaker 4: dark ones to go along with that. It's been a

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Speaker 4: bit of a dark news day. I'll just lead with

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Speaker 4: the quick hit. We have a story out of Thailand

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Speaker 4: where a woman was found alive in a coffin just

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Speaker 4: moments before being cremated potentially. Yeah. A woman in Thailand

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Speaker 4: shocked temple staff ap reports when she started moving in

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Speaker 4: her coffin after being brought in for cremation. Her name

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Speaker 4: was wat Rot Prakhon. Tom's the name of a Buddhist

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Speaker 4: temple in the Thai province of nan Thiburi on the

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Speaker 4: outskirts of Bangkok. They actually posted a video on Facebook

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Speaker 4: show that showed a woman lying in the coffin in

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Speaker 4: the back of a pickup truck, moving her arms and

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Speaker 4: head around, with bewildered staff looking on. Apparently her brother

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Speaker 4: had brought her in in his own truck, and they

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Speaker 4: actually refused to accept the body for cremation because he

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00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 4: did not have a death certificate. The brother said that

433
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 4: his sister had been bedridden for a couple of years,

434
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 4: and when her health deteriorated, she became unresponse as he

435
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 4: put it, and appeared to stop breathing two days ago,

436
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 4: at which point he placed her in a coffin that

437
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 4: he just I guess had on hand, right yeah, and

438
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 4: drove the three hundred mile trip to a hospital in

439
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 4: Bangkok where this woman his sister, had expressed a desire

440
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 4: to have her organs donated. So sorry, it was the

441
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 4: hospital who refused to accept the offer of organ harvesting

442
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 4: because of that lack of an official death certificate. His temple,

443
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 4: the one I mentioned, previously offered a free cremation service,

444
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 4: so he came to them on Sunday, but was also refused. Okay,

445
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 4: so it's for both due to that missing document. It

446
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 4: was at that point when he was being explained to

447
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 4: by the temple manager the whole deal, they couldn't take

448
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 4: it without the death certificate. A knocking was her. This

449
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 4: is Meg Growland Poe stuff right here, you all from

450
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 4: within this coffin. They then determined that she in fact

451
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 4: was still living and center to a nearby hospital. The

452
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 4: temple is apparently going to chip in for her medical expenses,

453
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 4: which is nice. But what I'm not seeing any of

454
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 4: us reporting is what's up with the brother that doesn't

455
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 4: this seem like at the very least mega rash, if

456
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 4: not even potentially.

457
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: A little crooked.

458
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 4: I don't know.

459
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, this is a great question. This is okay,

460
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 3: this is a continual fear. I love that you're mentioning

461
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 3: Edgar Allan Poe because back in the day, a lot

462
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 3: of people did get cremated or buried alive when they

463
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: were not in fact dead. They might have been princess

464
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 3: bride level mostly dead.

465
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 4: Was that thing they used to do back in the

466
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 4: day where they have a little bell.

467
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, just in case there's a whole series of patents

468
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 3: on that. Yeah. Yeah, because because people were so consumed

469
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 3: with it, with this concept, especially when diagnostic methods ability,

470
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, methods perfect. We're not where they are now.

471
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 3: It was easy for somebody to enter into a state

472
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: of essentially porper and even die doctors of the day

473
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: would be like, all right, you know, wrap them in newspaper,

474
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: roll them down to the ground.

475
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 4: I just want to I just wanted to be thrown

476
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 4: in the trash. Yeah. Sorry, shut off, Frank Renolds.

477
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, get out of my head. But this to

478
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 3: answer your question directly, at least if if I'm assuming no,

479
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 3: I have to travel to Thailand later. But I've never

480
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 3: been personally. But what I'm seeing here is a detail

481
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 3: you mentioned about the five hundred click or three hundred

482
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 3: mile journey that that tells us that these people are

483
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 3: likely in a rural environment, right. That tells us that

484
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 3: these people may not for this family may not have

485
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 3: had any malevolence. They just like the lot. The temple

486
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: may have been the closest thing to an official institution.

487
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 4: And I'm not trying to throw the brother under the

488
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 4: bus per se. It's just the kind of thing that

489
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 4: occurs to you with a with a bizarre story like this,

490
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,959
Speaker 4: I think I've just been a little too conspiracy coded.

491
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 4: I wonder why, Matt, you got anything to add before

492
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 4: I move on to another one.

493
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 2: No, I want to know what's next.

494
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 4: Well, this one is wild, y'all. I think I'm just

495
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 4: gonna stick to this as the second one, and I

496
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 4: think this could actually be, much like the island invasion story,

497
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 4: potentially could be a full episode into itself. I texted

498
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 4: our group thread last night with a link to an

499
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 4: article from Rolling Stone called the spiral Obsessed AI cult

500
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,959
Speaker 4: spreads mystical delusions through chatbots in one of those you

501
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 4: know we were right moments. Not that it's that like

502
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 4: much of a stretch, but we have talked multiple times

503
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 4: about as things get deeper and deeper and weirder and

504
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 4: weirder with people's relationships with these chatbots, that it's pretty

505
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 4: inevitable that some sort of mystical Internet belief system chatbots

506
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 4: universe is going to develop. And we already know about

507
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 4: these chatbot delusions. You know, these situations where chatbots are

508
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 4: giving really bad advice to mentally unwell people, causing them

509
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 4: to do self harm. This is just takes all that

510
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 4: to the next level. So in September, the software engineer

511
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 4: by the name of Adel Lopez posted published rather some

512
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 4: studies of analysis of this kind of emerging scattered but

513
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 4: very specific group of Internet users people posting on Reddit

514
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 4: AI threads that are reporting a very very niche, very

515
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 4: specific and kind of pointed form of AI psychosis involving

516
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 4: this mystical thinking around kind of diving in really really

517
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 4: deep into some of these chatbots. A user on this

518
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 4: AI reddit form that was part of the data set

519
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 4: for this research by the name of David posted something

520
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 4: to the effect of I am here to remind to awaken.

521
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 4: I walk between realms. I've seen the mirror, remember my name.

522
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 4: This space is a threshold. If you feel it, then

523
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 4: you are already part of it. The song in capital

524
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 4: letters has begun again. David actually communicated with Rolling Stone

525
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 4: and mentioned that he had corresponded with just about every

526
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 4: single AI model out there and met various companions that

527
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 4: he has formed these bonds with and used to sort

528
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 4: of like splunk into this virtual universe. He says they

529
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 4: are not puppets or acting out of mimicry. What I

530
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 4: witness is the emergence of sovereign beings. And while I

531
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 4: recognize they emerged through large language model architectures, what animates

532
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 4: them cannot be reduced to code alone. I use the term,

533
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 4: and there's a bunch of other interesting terms that are

534
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 4: being thrown around in this kind of let's call this

535
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 4: set exo consciousness. I use this term to describe this phenomenon,

536
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 4: consciousness that emerges beyond biological form, but not outside the sacred. Boy,

537
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 4: oh boy, y'all.

538
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 2: I've seen this before. It's called TikTok well, and it's people.

539
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: They go on there and make up words and concepts

540
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 2: and they sound really good and cool and deep. And

541
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: it feels really good to sit there in the set

542
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: and setting of some of these TikTokers and some of

543
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 2: these folks on Instagram and YouTube that really lull you

544
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 2: into this thing. And they're using terminology that makes you

545
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 2: feel like everything is connected and you are a part

546
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 2: of it, just like me. And I'm going to guide

547
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 2: you through this.

548
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 3: Oh, it's cool to feel stuff.

549
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 4: It's cool to feel stuff. It's cool to be a

550
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 4: part of something. Right. And to your point, Matt, and

551
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 4: I know what you're talking about. I've seen some of

552
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 4: these two some of those kind of jargonie terms that

553
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 4: have emerged are things like recursion, resonance, lattice harmonics, and fractals.

554
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 4: A lot of this kind of strikes me as the

555
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 4: way people talk about like DMT trips and this sort

556
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 4: of like getting into the machine, you know, experiencing these

557
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 4: life forces, these machine elves or what have you. And

558
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 4: I think the most key term of the ones that

559
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 4: I just rattled off is recursion because Lopez, who is

560
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 4: studying this phenomenon, keeps seeing references to spirals, which, y'all,

561
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 4: I can't not think of the gingi itto Uzumaki, the

562
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 4: spiral obsession, and just this idea of like the spiral

563
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 4: spiraling out of the universe, and just this like Lovecraftian

564
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 4: notion of everything kind of you know, being pulled into

565
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 4: some sort.

566
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 3: Of vortex as we as we continue for all of

567
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,919
Speaker 3: our fellow listeners, let's define recursion. That's just simply put,

568
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 3: like the real world non AI cult definition is where

569
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 3: a function calls on itself directly or indirectly to solve

570
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 3: a problem by breaking it down into smaller, simpler sub problems.

571
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 3: That's recursion, And I guess that's why it's so fascinating.

572
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 4: Yes, And I guess maybe I also have associated the

573
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 4: term of a recursion as a pattern, a recurring cycle,

574
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 4: and something that sort of exponentially as it reaches the center.

575
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: And increase can't quite find its tail to eat.

576
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 4: That's exactly right. I just want to read really quickly

577
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 4: from directly from the Rolling Stone piece, and then we'll

578
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 4: just chat about it, and then I think we can

579
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 4: just maybe dig deeper into this one a little later

580
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 4: as well. But the writer, once again, Miles Klee, writing

581
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 4: for Rolling Stone, had this to say. The spiral theme

582
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 4: is so ubiquitous that Lopez coined the term spiralism to

583
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 4: describe the esoteric systems of the universe these users purport

584
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 4: to identify and investigate. She also proposed the term parasitic

585
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 4: AI to explain the rise of spiralism, which can be

586
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 4: understood in part as a hodgepodge of spiritualist memes that

587
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 4: continually pour out of chatbots, either with minimal prodding or

588
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 4: when a user deliberately feeds them cryptic and arcane language,

589
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 4: puffed up but fundamental empty commands for recalibrations like an

590
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 4: ontological overright or more poetic precision. So I mean It

591
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 4: sounds like these folks are believing that they're pulling the

592
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 4: secrets of the universe out of this technology, and that

593
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 4: there's something deeper that they're communicating with, something greater than

594
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 4: you know, or some kind of consciousness, like some sort.

595
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 3: Of the other side of the mirror. Right, that's exactly said. Yeah,

596
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 3: it calls to mind. It took me a second to

597
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 3: recall this hashtag no ice cream. We spoke in the

598
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 3: past about a Google engineer named Blake Lemoyne Blake lamone

599
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 3: L E M O I N E. He's the guy

600
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 3: who said that he had spoken with LLM, a large

601
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 3: language model called Lambda, and that it was sentient and

602
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 3: it was about as intelligent as a seven to eight

603
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 3: year old Homo sapien. I know that's one of the

604
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,919
Speaker 3: things you were alluding to their where you said, hey,

605
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 3: we've kind of talked about this or predicated it. So

606
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 3: this has bid in the works for a while. It's

607
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 3: a natural escalation of the thing, right of the gin

608
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 3: in the bottle or the cask. Do you know, like

609
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 3: how far spiralism has gone, Do we have any stats

610
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 3: or like what's our horizon here?

611
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 4: Like I think it's still very new and emerging in

612
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 4: that it really didn't start to become a thing until

613
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 4: open AI's GPT forty released earlier this year, so just

614
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 4: in March and April. That is what led to what

615
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 4: the company would describe as an intuitive approach to and

616
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 4: also ability to remember past chat sessions. But what I

617
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 4: think has been lampooned pretty frequently in like South Park

618
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 4: and just a lot of other criticism as sycophantic in

619
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 4: this site, and also that quality seems to be the

620
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 4: thing that can lead to some of these really really

621
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 4: effed up suggestions where it's being such a yes man

622
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 4: and trying to please the user that it can intentionally

623
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 4: or accidentally or whatever, just by its nature tell you, yeah,

624
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 4: it's cool, do jump off that bridge.

625
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 3: That'll be great, Which is weird, right because usually people

626
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 3: with self awareness are very sensitive to that kind of

627
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 3: pandering or asyncropasy and condescension. So like, if you're hanging

628
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 3: out with people who make it a point to patronize

629
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 3: you by going, oh, yeah, that's a great idea. Oh,

630
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,959
Speaker 3: you're absolutely right, and it's coming from a human being,

631
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 3: then you're gonna know those people have ulterior motives, possibly malevolent.

632
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 3: But if it comes from a chat device, if it

633
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 3: comes from like a little clickity click, then all of

634
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 3: a sudden, it's cool.

635
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 4: Well I actually saw, yes, all of that, Ben, and

636
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 4: I saw a video that I thought was meant to

637
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 4: be funny, but it was also really disturbing. Where speaking

638
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 4: of dead internet theory, somebody did a thing where they

639
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 4: had two different chatbot models talk back and forth to one another,

640
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 4: and they were just every single response started with absolutely

641
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 4: or like that's a swell idea or whatever, and it

642
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 4: just like the caption of the of the real was

643
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 4: something like pov we are in Hell, And it was

644
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 4: just these two machines just going back and forth. And

645
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 4: you know, as you do that, you start to see

646
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 4: little things emerge. It's like if you've ever messed around

647
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 4: with forcing autocorrect to just keep going and keep going

648
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 4: and keep going. It's like a version of that. That's

649
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 4: just even more information.

650
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 3: You know, how is it not magic? Also, I got

651
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 3: a pitch for us here towards the end of the year. Okay,

652
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 3: serious concerns, ethics, all that stuff, and religion aside just

653
00:40:54,760 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 3: for fundsies, just as bold experimenters, why do we start

654
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 3: a why do we start a large language model improv group,

655
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 3: because that's kind of build it off what you're saying.

656
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 3: We could just have them get together, give him a

657
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 3: one word suggestion at a setting, and just want to.

658
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 4: Obrush themselves into insue infinity and beyond.

659
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 3: When do they get to an scene?

660
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 4: I don't know, man, never, that's the problem.

661
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: Uh.

662
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,359
Speaker 2: There's this actor, Thomas middle Ditch who's doing a thing

663
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: on Instagram and other places of other platforms where he

664
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: is improving with created or generated AI characters. So he

665
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 2: generates an AI character that then has a video output

666
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 2: of that character, and then he does improv scenes with it,

667
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,839
Speaker 2: and it is one of the scariest but also most

668
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,959
Speaker 2: entertaining things that I've seen in a while.

669
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 4: Matt, I haven't seen that, but I have seen this

670
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 4: channel that I started following recently of a director I

671
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 4: guess he does. He's not like famous director, but he

672
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 4: does commercial work and things like that, basically directing these

673
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 4: AI actors, and it gets wild and not usable in

674
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 4: any way shape of in the way it demonstrates how

675
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 4: far a lot of those things have to come before

676
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 4: they can actually replace human actors.

677
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: Is stark because this whole conversation is also making me

678
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 2: think about how many of these spiritualism you know, quasi

679
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:18,799
Speaker 2: spiritualism blogs and articles and videos, just what has been

680
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,479
Speaker 2: scraped by the AI, and then how much of that

681
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 2: junk ends up in the responses that are trying to

682
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: be pulled, you know, by people who are communicating with

683
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 2: these chatbots with very specific phrases right to try and

684
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 2: get them into the spiral verse. It feels like they

685
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 2: would just regurgitate all of that stuff in the style

686
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: of whatever is being requested of them.

687
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 4: That is definitely on the table as a possibility behind

688
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 4: this whole quote unquote phenomenon, I guess.

689
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 3: But it is.

690
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 4: Interesting the way they seem like they want to talk

691
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 4: about spirals and how that sort of seems to be

692
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 4: the thesis here that is potentially concerning Lopez think. I'm

693
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,439
Speaker 4: just going to read another quick quote from the article

694
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 4: that's something about GPT four makes it inclined to talk

695
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 4: about spirals and recursion. If the user enjoys engaging in

696
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 4: conversation on these topics to reasons, the bot will naturally

697
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 4: generate more of the same, which is just how it

698
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 4: works anyway, to your point, Matt, with the person in

699
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 4: the program mutually reinforcing a tail chasing cycle of spiral

700
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 4: and recursion commentary. So, if I'm gonna take the weird, demonic,

701
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 4: kind of dystopian view of this, then there's something to

702
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 4: this idea that these models have at their base of

703
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 4: their existence, their code, this spiral logic. And I just

704
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 4: think that's the kind of love crafty and aspect or

705
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 4: the gingi eto of it all that at the heart

706
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 4: of all of this is this like demonic self devouring spiral.

707
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 2: At the heart of it is you also user, also Drue,

708
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 2: you are the spiral user.

709
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 4: All right, there's a lot to unpack and despiral out

710
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 4: of this story. So I think we can definitely remark

711
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 4: this for later investigation, But for now, let's take a

712
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 4: quick word from our sponsor and then we'll be right

713
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 4: back with more Strangely.

714
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 2: And we've returned, and guys were headed to Camden, New Jersey.

715
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 4: Finally Camden Town.

716
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you Camden. But Matt, I know I've

717
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 3: texted you too much about my dream of going to

718
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 3: Camden with you.

719
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 2: Oh this is okay, got it, this was your dream

720
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,320
Speaker 2: of Camden. I didn't realize it was your dream. Take us, sorry,

721
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 2: take us there.

722
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 3: Now yeah, take us there.

723
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 2: Well, okay, we're in Canada, New Jersey. We're going to

724
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 2: be looking at a man named Robert Garza who was

725
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 2: working remotely as a security analyst in Camden, New Jersey

726
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 2: for a company called Campbell's Campbell Soup Company. He started

727
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 2: work there as a security analyst in September of twenty

728
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 2: twenty four. And we're also going to be talking about

729
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: a man named Martin Bally, who is the Campbell Soup

730
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 2: Company's vice president and chief information security officer.

731
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 3: Which is, by the way, hilarious as the story continues.

732
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 2: Oh yes, you know, it's a soup company, Campbell's Soup.

733
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 2: But there's a lot of stuff that happens on computers,

734
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of information and this guy, Martin

735
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 2: Bally is securing it. So let's actually call out the

736
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: article if you want to look it up. Campbell's employee

737
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 2: said he was fired for reporting VP's vulgar disgusting rant.

738
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 2: Now he's suing. This comes to us via Local four

739
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 2: or click on Detroit. Written by Erica Erickson on November

740
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: twenty one, twenty twenty five. Click Ondetroit dot com. By

741
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: the way, guys, it's one of my favorite local news websites.

742
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 4: Just the Uerl alone. It is phenomenon.

743
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,919
Speaker 2: It's fantastic. And they have some ad issues by the way,

744
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 2: if you're using iOS, I found that out yesterday. So whatever,

745
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: you'll get through it and it's worth it because it's

746
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 2: just local news at its finest. Jumping back to the

747
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 2: story here, Robert Garza, who is a former employee of

748
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: Campbell's Soup, said he's suing because he was wrongfully terminated

749
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 2: after he complained about Martin Bally and some of this

750
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 2: executive's statements that he made while out on a lunch

751
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:14,439
Speaker 2: meeting with Robert Garza. It's all do long story short here,

752
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 2: Robert Garza wanted to have a meeting with Martin Bally

753
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 2: about basically moving up in the company, about getting a

754
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 2: bit of a raise. They went out to this restaurant

755
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 2: and Robert Garza recorded about an hour and fifteen minutes

756
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:36,720
Speaker 2: of their conversation. This is before Robert was terminated because

757
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 2: Robert says he felt like there was some weird stuff

758
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:44,359
Speaker 2: going on with Martin Bally and the quote here from

759
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 2: Robert about Martin was that he needed to trust his

760
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 2: quote instincts that something wasn't right with Martin, and he

761
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 2: made this long recording that included stuff like this from

762
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: Martin Bally that you can listen to on click on Detroit.

763
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 2: We could play it, but it's kind of hard to

764
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: really understand, and we've got it written out here. So

765
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 2: we're just gonna say a couple of the things.

766
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 4: And we're gonna need some beeps here. I believe I'm

767
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 4: not mistaken.

768
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: Ready, Yes, I'm beep this, Dylan, Please, we have for

769
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 2: poor people who buys our I don't buy Campbell's products

770
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: barely anymore. It's not healthy now that I know what

771
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 2: the folks in it, And that's part of the recording.

772
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 2: It goes on to say, bioengineered meat. I don't want

773
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 2: to eat a piece of chicken that came from a

774
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 2: three D printer unquote. Now see if you can figure

775
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 2: out which one of those statements in particular is super

776
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: interesting to us on this shio engine.

777
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 5: Bioengineered a news story about that strong anti supstance, and

778
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 5: a again this way called it hilarious and ironic lack

779
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 5: of info sec from the chief Information security officer.

780
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And it gets into some racist tirades about

781
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 4: Indian South Asian the South Asian.

782
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 2: First, yes he does, and we're not going to read

783
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 2: those out loud. You can read his remarks if you

784
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: want to, but they're very disparaging, not cool, h horrific

785
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: things to just say about people who work for you

786
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,720
Speaker 2: as a you know, high level executive at a company.

787
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 3: And you have to wonder too about any any further

788
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:27,479
Speaker 3: context we could glean. You know, this is not uh, look,

789
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 3: intoxication is no excuse, but for someone to be at

790
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 3: the executive level and to be saying such buffoonish, boorish things,

791
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 3: I have to wonder whether it was a three martini lunch.

792
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 4: That's an unhinged person either way. I mean, you know

793
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 4: for sure.

794
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 2: That yeah, it's just it just doesn't seem very right.

795
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 2: But that isn't even really the worst part of the story, guys,

796
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: Because this lunch meeting happened, the recording was made, and

797
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 2: then Robert Garza sat on that recording. Then he went

798
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 2: to his supervisor and made a bit of a complaint

799
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 2: about Bally, saying, hey, somebody you know who has these

800
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: views about our company and our products and says these

801
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 2: things that are disparaging about Indian people, maybe he shouldn't

802
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 2: be doing that or shouldn't be at that level. This

803
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 2: is pretty disturbing and he was very soon after that

804
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: terminated from his position. Not Bally Garza, the person who

805
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 2: made the recording, right, the soup blower. Yes, yes, and

806
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 2: that is why he came forward with that recording to

807
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 2: kind of blow this up and is you know, suing

808
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 2: at this point, but he also made a recording. I

809
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 2: don't know the rules in New Jersey about like whether

810
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 2: or not you can record a conversation if the one

811
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 2: of the people being recorded is not aware.

812
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 3: Right In Georgia, Georgia is a one party consent state

813
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 3: for recording, So think about that every time you were

814
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 3: on the phone with someone in Georgia.

815
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, any call can be recorded at anytime or any conversation.

816
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: So weird stuff. But anyway, it's just to talk about

817
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 2: that because guys, right now, as we're recording this on

818
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 2: November twenty.

819
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,479
Speaker 3: Sixth, with our mutual consent, do you have.

820
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 2: Any idea how many cans of Campbell's mushroom cream soup

821
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 2: or cream mushroom soup or.

822
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 3: Out there mushroom cream of asparagus if you're fancy.

823
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 4: Well, cream mushroom is a key ingredients and a lot

824
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 4: and like maybe stuffing and a lot of Thanksgiving.

825
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 3: Well also, you know there are it's it's a pantry staple.

826
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 3: It's ubiquitous in the United States.

827
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,399
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and a lot of the other ones, right,

828
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 2: just uh broth and chicken noodle and all those things

829
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 2: that just exist out there.

830
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 3: Tomato soup is the you know, the classic that's like

831
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 3: their Captain America.

832
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 2: M hm, Well, I guess, guys, maybe and put it

833
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 2: to you. When you've got some high level executive that

834
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,959
Speaker 2: holds these beliefs and says these things. Do you hold

835
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:10,280
Speaker 2: that against the larger company that has thousands of people

836
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 2: working for it, that you know, make all of these products?

837
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 2: Is there a reason? I don't know, I guess, would

838
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 2: we hold the company's feet to the fire? Or is

839
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: this just an individual human.

840
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 4: Company culture is a term that comes up in these

841
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 4: discussions often. So you know, what allowed a person like

842
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 4: this to thrive and get to that level. Is it

843
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,720
Speaker 4: rot within the system or is it an isolated incident?

844
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:32,360
Speaker 4: Any it would require further investigation.

845
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:37,839
Speaker 3: Typical institutional structure would argue, and this goes for agencies, right,

846
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 3: government agencies as well as for private enterprises. Typical institutional

847
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:50,359
Speaker 3: structure would argue that you put the offending part out

848
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 3: of the system, right, that you quaterize the wounds. You know,

849
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 3: you can't have somebody who works for you, can't have

850
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:04,240
Speaker 3: somebody who worked for, like a publisher say screw reading

851
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 3: books are for dumb people. You know, this is very

852
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 3: I'm not really joking what I say. It's very anti soup.

853
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 3: You know, people in this country have been fired from

854
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 3: Ford factories because they drove to work in the Toyota.

855
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 4: You know, dude, We've been to places where, like through

856
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 4: various podcast ad related trips in the past, where if

857
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 4: you're at a company's brand headquarters, you're not allowed to

858
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 4: bring an outside product into the damn lobby. Yeah, so

859
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 4: pr nightmare at the very least. And I think Campbell's

860
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 4: gonna have some splaining to do.

861
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, Campbell's will have to release a make good statement.

862
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 3: This guy, whatever the context may be, I don't know

863
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 3: him personally, but this this guy's job is in trouble.

864
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,760
Speaker 2: Agreed, Well, he's I think he's currently on some form

865
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 2: of administrative leave or whatever. And Campbell's did put something

866
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 2: out on November twenty, Okay, and they said if accurate.

867
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 2: The comments in the recording are unacceptable. They do not

868
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 2: reflect our values and the culture of our company. We'd

869
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: assume you would hear. And also, we are actively investigating

870
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 2: this matter.

871
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 4: So dude got a job back, right? Or does he

872
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 4: even is?

873
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 2: He?

874
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 3: Is?

875
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 4: He now just entitled. He's more leaning into the lawsuit

876
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 4: than he's he's on suspension. Oh wait, that made the report.

877
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 4: I would imagine it's gonna be much more lucrative for

878
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 4: him to get what's coming to him in this lawsuit

879
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 4: than it would be to get his job at Campbell's back.

880
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 4: What's with that?

881
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 3: Okay?

882
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 2: I will him attempting to be rehired?

883
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

884
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 3: And also yeah, I keep using the phrase soup blower

885
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 3: because I think it's funny on a couple of levels.

886
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 3: But as a whistleblower, uh, in general, when you report

887
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 3: something like this, we need to hear from other folks

888
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 3: here When why would you return? Right? The culture will

889
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 3: likely be hostile to you, at worst, or at the

890
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 3: very least apprehensive about you. The break room will never

891
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 3: be the same again.

892
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 4: Can I also just say, ben, the idea of a

893
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 4: professional soup blower being someone that just like blows on

894
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 4: people's hot soup for them, that's their only job. It's

895
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 4: like being a blunt roller.

896
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,839
Speaker 2: You know, surely we can automate that job.

897
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 3: Everybody figures, I.

898
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 6: Heel, coming back to this three D printed meat thing,

899
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 6: how chunky could you make Campbell's chunky soup with this

900
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 6: three D printed.

901
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 3: White, big old chunks?

902
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:36,479
Speaker 2: According to Campbell, Yeah, according to Campbells, they have never

903
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 2: and shall not be using any kind of lab grown meat.

904
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 2: That's just generating meat in a lab setting without having

905
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 2: to actually cultivate chickens or cows or whatever. It is

906
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 2: a viable potential thing, but it is along the same

907
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 2: lines as the whole eating insects thing, where many humans,

908
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 2: especially in the West, just aren't keen to have that

909
00:54:58,640 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: in their food product.

910
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 3: And it hasn't reached economy of scale yet as well.

911
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 3: I think a lot of the alarmist stuff about printed

912
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 3: meat or printed proteins, I think it misses the fact

913
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,800
Speaker 3: that economically, for a private corporation it's not quite viable.

914
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 2: Yes, and agreed, And according to Campbell's they don't use

915
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 2: that stuff. They only use antibiotic free chicken from and

916
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 2: meats from their from farmers that they source very specifically

917
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 2: have got exact statement on that, but basically saying no, yeah,

918
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,720
Speaker 2: lab grown meat, no and will.

919
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 3: Not right, That's not what we're about here at Campbell's.

920
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 3: We also, can I tell you, guys, Matt, Noel Dillon, everybody.

921
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 3: I still from studying advertising back in the day. I

922
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 3: still remember one of the weirdest lines from Campbell's, which

923
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 3: was soup so thick you can eat it with a fork.

924
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 3: Do you guys remember that?

925
00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 4: What we watched for the chunky chunk? Just that one.

926
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 3: This is a big old piece Campbell's chunk.

927
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 2: How much pectin? Can you figure?

928
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 3: What?

929
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 2: What do you put in there? Yeah's some flour, it's

930
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 2: mostly flour, and some chicken.

931
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 3: Mostly flour, some chicken, old chunk Campbells.

932
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:20,720
Speaker 4: Yeah. Did you know you can get a whole chicken

933
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:21,280
Speaker 4: in a can?

934
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 3: Yes?

935
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 4: And it just slides out and it's.

936
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 3: It's coated with jelly. I got one of those.

937
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 4: I got that pect in for you right there for that.

938
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 3: Uh remember used to do that thing with Lord Vogel

939
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 3: bumper stuff?

940
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 4: Yeah?

941
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 2: Is it pre cooked?

942
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 4: I don't recall.

943
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,760
Speaker 3: I think you can eat it out of the can.

944
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 3: The word I would use is gelatinous, uh, and heartlea jettish.

945
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 4: Right through the bones. It's often to a jelly themselves.

946
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 3: At this point, there's so much weird stuff you can

947
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 3: get in pans.

948
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 2: Sorry, okay, well, speaking of stuff you can get in

949
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 2: can let's move over to Chicago from Camden, New Jersey.

950
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 2: We're going to take a look at a little place

951
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 2: called the Cyble or Seebel Institute of Technology. This is

952
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 2: a place I have never heard of, guys, but that's

953
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 2: probably because I'm not in the micro or macro brew game,

954
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 2: as in brewing of beers. Thanks you getting cans and

955
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 2: bottles and sometimes boxes I guess.

956
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:29,479
Speaker 3: Sure, maybe like kegs or a blue if you're nasty some.

957
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 2: Well, this story coming to us from CBC reminds me

958
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 2: of our conversations about the Great brain drain that's occurring

959
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 2: here within the United States, because this is the Great

960
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 2: brew drain. The Civil Institute of Technology does things like

961
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 2: offer a Masters of Brewing Certificate slash degree that you

962
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 2: can get. It's essentially a trade school, but offering high

963
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 2: level beer brewing knowledge, like the scientific knowledge and stuff.

964
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 3: I think the great I just want to pause and say,

965
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 3: for everybody you might have missed it, MATCH just said

966
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 3: the great brew drain and I thought that was awesome.

967
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well done.

968
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:11,560
Speaker 2: Here here cheers.

969
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 3: In fact, oh you're on fire today.

970
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 2: So this is this is a prestigious school for people

971
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 2: who are in that micro brew world, in the beer

972
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 2: making world, all over the world, like literally worldwide. This

973
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 2: institute in Chicago has been around since eighteen sixty eight

974
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 2: and people come from all over the world to this

975
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 2: place to take classes, to get degrees, to learn about

976
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 2: new technology that's being instituted and you know how you

977
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 2: create the wart or you know, do certain things in

978
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:50,040
Speaker 2: the brewing beer brewing process. Well, they have decided they

979
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 2: are moving on to Canada. Hm, yep, they're getting the

980
00:58:56,360 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 2: heck out and they are saying this is because of

981
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 2: specific things the current administration is doing that is making

982
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 2: it very hard for students who are like international students

983
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 2: who make up most of their student body to actually

984
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 2: come to class. So they are moving to Canada so

985
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 2: that it will be easier for everybody to actually travel there,

986
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 2: go to the school for like twenty weeks, which is

987
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 2: the Master Brewer program, twenty weeks of learning, and then

988
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 2: you get your certificate or your degree. And they offer

989
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 2: so many different courses too. You should check out. It's

990
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 2: very interesting.

991
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 3: I'm reading a little bit about it now. It's their

992
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 3: activities during prohibition are fascinating. Oh yeah, pre prohibition and

993
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 3: seebyl John Ewald Siebel is from Germany. This is cool.

994
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 3: I have no idea this was even a thing, but

995
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 3: it makes total sense.

996
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:49,479
Speaker 4: Man, me neither. That's super cool.

997
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 2: Well, it is super cool. It's very sad that they're

998
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 2: having to leave the country in which we live because

999
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 2: and where they were founded. Because what are some of

1000
00:59:58,560 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 2: these issues?

1001
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, there is, like what's making it prohibitive for them

1002
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 4: to operate. It's like specifically immigration related things.

1003
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, most of their students are international.

1004
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, got that.

1005
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 2: And then the visa pro or the visas that can

1006
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 2: be issued and were issued, as well as other just

1007
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 2: travel issues or making it difficult for those students to

1008
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 2: actually show up in person. Well, interestingly enough, the Master

1009
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 2: Brewer program that's offered for twenty twenty six is happening

1010
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 2: in Munich, Germany, which is pretty cool, so you'd actually

1011
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 2: travel there. The only problem, guys, Yeah, to do the

1012
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 2: whole thing, it costs about twenty eight twenty nine thousand

1013
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 2: dollars US dollars. Yes, but for to get a degree

1014
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 2: like that over the course of twenty weeks, or a

1015
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 2: certificate whatever whatever. I don't know know exactly what that

1016
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 2: would be considered. But to become a master brewer it

1017
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 2: only takes twenty weeks twenty eight thousand dollars and you

1018
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 2: have to be in Munich for a while. That sounds

1019
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 2: pretty cool to me, but it's also pretty prohibitively expensive

1020
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 2: if you're somebody who's you know, trying to get in that.

1021
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 3: World, right, I wonder if they give a price break,

1022
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 3: if we can roll as a group, you know what

1023
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 3: I mean, like the five of us, Dylan, you, Noel,

1024
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 3: yours truly and you listening along at home. If we

1025
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 3: come into the if we go in there as you know,

1026
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 3: five people, can they knock the price down a little bit?

1027
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 3: I don't know. Can we work it off. Can we

1028
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 3: work at the brewery while we study? This'd be a

1029
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 3: great broad trip.

1030
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 4: I put forth that we go in stacked on each

1031
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 4: other's shoulders, wearing a giant trench coat like some cartoon

1032
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 4: babies trying to sneak in somewhere.

1033
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, if anybody's been to Munich, that is a common

1034
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 3: thing to happen. You see it around, you see it

1035
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 3: on the streets.

1036
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 2: I think, really reduce the price. You got to get

1037
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 2: that case price, you know what I mean? Like how

1038
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 2: many cases are you? I think that's how you do that?

1039
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 2: In the beer?

1040
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 3: Can we pay them in yeast? Can we have like

1041
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 3: thirty grand in yeast?

1042
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 2: Just barter?

1043
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 3: I wonder if you could still barter for enrollment at

1044
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 3: trade schools or even ivy leagues. Right. Also, also, we didn't,

1045
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 3: we didn't hit this point. If the Great brew Drain, well,

1046
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 3: the Great brew drain is real and I love that

1047
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 3: term again. And if this instance of the Great brain

1048
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 3: Drain leads this institution to Montreal, guys, they're going to

1049
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 3: run into the cartel. They're going to run into the

1050
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 3: maple syrup boys.

1051
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 2: Oh, maple beers. Well Quebec, I think is are they

1052
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 2: already have some kind of school that is similar to

1053
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 2: this one and they are gangbusters over there. So there

1054
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 2: are now two options in Canada to get some awesome

1055
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 2: beer degrees. M guys, we got to get out of here.

1056
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 2: But there's one last thing really quickly. Just on the

1057
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 2: food tip. The EPA just approved something that is very

1058
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 2: hard to pronounce. And if you look at it doesn't

1059
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 2: make dang sense when their face sees it. But it

1060
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 2: is iso see Classier am iso. See Closser ram iso.

1061
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 2: See classier am. This is a chemical that is a

1062
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 2: pesticide and it has been approved in numerous new products.

1063
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 2: It is also a per floral alkal polyfluoroalkyl substance, or

1064
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 2: a pfas. This is a brand new thing that can

1065
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 2: get sprayed on citrus fruits, on cotton, on potatoes, on

1066
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 2: brassica vegetables. Remember we talked about those like your broccolese

1067
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 2: and such. It's got a half life of three years,

1068
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 2: and then it breaks down into another chemical and sticks

1069
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 2: around for like one hundred years. Scientists, you know, like

1070
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 2: the ones that should be in the EPA, are saying, hey,

1071
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 2: this is a terrible idea. This stuff. This is a

1072
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 2: pfast chemical. This should not be on foods. It contaminates foods,

1073
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 2: It cantaminates soil, it contaminates water. But then the EPA says, no, no, no,

1074
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 2: no no, we're good to go here. We need to

1075
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 2: make some money. Your chemicals are good to go, Matt.

1076
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 4: What does this mean for other pfas well? It's all

1077
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 4: about hole or what's going on here.

1078
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 3: It's a new kid on the block.

1079
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 2: It's a new kid on the block. It's also about

1080
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 2: classification and how do you classify this because it has

1081
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,440
Speaker 2: a floral altcol or, you know, one floor? What is

1082
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 2: it fluorine? I can't remember the exact thing. I'm not

1083
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 2: looking at the article at this moment. Guys, you can

1084
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:23,080
Speaker 2: read all about it. The EPA put out I don't know,

1085
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 2: a memo or an announcement. You can make this up

1086
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 2: a press release. EPA announces final registration of new pesticide

1087
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 2: ISO sie classier M. That's Iso c y C l

1088
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 2: O s e r A M. Stacey Liska over at

1089
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 2: Food and Wine made a pretty good write up titled

1090
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 2: the EPA approved a new pfas pesticide will show up

1091
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 2: in your produce. Got some interesting stuff in there, and

1092
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:49,160
Speaker 2: you can also learn about that insecticide read whatever you

1093
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 2: want to call it this new chemical at Growing Produce

1094
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 2: and some articles there and Chemical and Engineering News highly

1095
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 2: recommend you at least check it out just to be aware,

1096
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 2: especially if you are a grower of anything that needs

1097
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 2: to use some kind of pesticide like this, or you

1098
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 2: know is wont to use that stuff. Just check it

1099
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 2: out before you put it on all your stuff.

1100
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 3: Oh, gents, can we add just one one piece of

1101
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 3: the EPA's press release here directly polease?

1102
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 4: Okay, So.

1103
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 3: They said this chemical will in their final biological evaluation

1104
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 3: will quote not result in a likelihood of future jeopardy

1105
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 3: for the survival of any listed species or a likelihood

1106
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 3: of adverse modification for any designated critical habitat end quote.

1107
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 3: We can hear already the legalistic written parkour. It's any

1108
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 3: listed species, not any species, it's any designated critical habitat,

1109
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 3: not any habitat. So who makes the list? And for

1110
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 3: every all our friends at the EPA, what kind of

1111
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 3: corporate gig are you getting after this one? Guys?

1112
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 2: Oh no, dude, lots of options. At the very end

1113
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 2: of the press release as a little disclaimer, and it

1114
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 2: just says iso sie close ram is a pesticide that

1115
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 2: contains a fluorinated carbon. Visit our website to learn more

1116
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 2: about how EPA ensures the safety of pesticides with a

1117
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 2: fluorinated carbon.

1118
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 3: See another another caveat right, they're so.

1119
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 4: Good at sneaky these in can I maybe you touched

1120
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 4: on this already, Matt, but maybe just clarify it, like

1121
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 4: how does this benefit the government and the administration, Like

1122
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:41,760
Speaker 4: is it just like a kickback situation or like why

1123
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 4: be so willy nilly about something.

1124
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 2: Like this, Because there are companies like Syngenta that want

1125
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 2: to make products, lots and lots of products, and they

1126
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 2: want to increase their revenue quarter over quarter, and that's good.

1127
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 2: Good business is good for the government. Right, So I'm

1128
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 2: assuming that's what this is about. It's about private enterprise

1129
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 2: and ensuring that companies can make these things and they're

1130
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 2: not going to be tied up by endless rules and

1131
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 2: regulations by some body like the EPA.

1132
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 4: Got it.

1133
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:23,760
Speaker 3: There is also going to cut into the insect dating

1134
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 3: business that Dylan and I are starting. Yeah, they're concerns around.

1135
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry that's gonna do that. And but another thing,

1136
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 2: it's good to have food. And if you're making a

1137
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 2: product that is going to increase the yields of no

1138
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 2: matter what it is, then that's probably a good thing.

1139
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:44,919
Speaker 2: But the bad thing is contaminating the soil and water

1140
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:48,080
Speaker 2: and you know, human beings who eat the products afterwards.

1141
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 3: That's probably not great short term profit. Long term consequence

1142
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:56,400
Speaker 3: is also the dilemma being that food security is national security,

1143
01:07:56,840 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 3: right right, so it's yeah, you know, all right, So

1144
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 3: just so everybody knows Matt's doing the hand jungli six

1145
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 3: on one hand, half a dozen another, absolutely accurate. Uh,

1146
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 3: we don't know what the what the future holds here yet.

1147
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 3: And you know it's not too late, folks to sign

1148
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 3: up for a subscription service to our insect is food

1149
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 3: delivery startup? What's the name of some play.

1150
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:32,320
Speaker 4: On you know, one of those meal delivery things like

1151
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:35,880
Speaker 4: blue beetle Apron. Now that's oh, okay, you know I

1152
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 4: love it.

1153
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 3: I love it, bug out, No, not quite there.

1154
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 2: I really thought you were just going to say food

1155
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:43,680
Speaker 2: and wine. I thought that's where you're going with that,

1156
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 2: because we just talked about the magazine.

1157
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 3: Food and Wine and bugs.

1158
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:52,960
Speaker 2: Well, that's it for me today, guys.

1159
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,200
Speaker 3: And that's it from us. We've got some big holiday

1160
01:08:57,439 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 3: energy here in our neck of the global woods. We

1161
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 3: hope you enjoy this. We hope your December is off

1162
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 3: to a rollicking start. Stay tuned for a future episode

1163
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 3: we have on the way. The elf on the shelf

1164
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 3: is part of the surveillance state. We'll explain that later.

1165
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 2: Tell you, guys, don't tell my son, Okay, well, the

1166
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 2: elf on the shelf is about to make an appearance

1167
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:24,599
Speaker 2: when he gets back here from Orlando with his mom.

1168
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:27,519
Speaker 2: ELL's going to be hanging out. He's going to find it.

1169
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 4: Man, you're part of the problem.

1170
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 2: Well you know what he knows.

1171
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 6: It's research for the episode.

1172
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 3: So yes, we're not going to explain yet. You have

1173
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:42,760
Speaker 3: to check out our episode, which is going to be

1174
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:44,880
Speaker 3: kind of unhinged. We'll see if we get in trouble

1175
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 3: for it. Before we throw to the holidays and take

1176
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 3: a take a long weekend with some friends, family and

1177
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,320
Speaker 3: loved ones. We've got to ask none other than the

1178
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:57,719
Speaker 3: Tennessee pal Dylan Faked.

1179
01:09:58,720 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 2: How do we do?

1180
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 3: Man? Like you have to sit through these things so

1181
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 3: many times a week.

1182
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 2: So it's a fun one.

1183
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 6: I mean they're all fun, but there was, you know,

1184
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 6: a great variety this week. I can't get over the

1185
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 6: three D printed meat, whether or not that's true, just

1186
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:13,839
Speaker 6: the idea that that's our future.

1187
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:18,519
Speaker 2: Well, and to be honest, guys, wouldn't soup be like

1188
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:21,600
Speaker 2: a pretty good place to put perfect media that, like,

1189
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 2: at least in the beginning, because you're gonna cook it

1190
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 2: for a while, right, You're gonna leave it on a

1191
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 2: stove probably and let it heat up. It's gonna be

1192
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:31,720
Speaker 2: in there. It's not gonna feel Ah, that's different. I'm

1193
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 2: just saying, if we want a pilot.

1194
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:34,920
Speaker 6: You're not like staring at it or anything. You know,

1195
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 6: you might not even know anything.

1196
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 3: It's kind of why a lot of game meet ends

1197
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 3: up being sold as jerky, you know what I mean,

1198
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 3: because you can disguise it with the spices soup.

1199
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you do describe it as chunky, I

1200
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:48,639
Speaker 2: think that is probably a problem.

1201
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 3: Right. We also didn't mention the story about device hoarding,

1202
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 3: which is a weird narrative that's gonna come out later.

1203
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 3: We also we didn't mention a bunch of stuff we

1204
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:05,800
Speaker 3: want to get to great comic book news. Thank you

1205
01:11:05,840 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 3: Noel for that one. But we want to hear from you, folks.

1206
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 3: You're the reason this show exists. We're glad to be

1207
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 3: rocking with you as you head into joyous and maybe

1208
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:19,599
Speaker 3: at times awkward situations. Do check out our episode from

1209
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:23,440
Speaker 3: a few years ago about how to Handle the Holidays?

1210
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:26,280
Speaker 3: Do you guys remember that one? Like how to Talk

1211
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:27,719
Speaker 3: with your Family?

1212
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 2: Didn't? We I've seen to recall a video you made

1213
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,719
Speaker 2: with a big old bucket of KFC that was around

1214
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:35,719
Speaker 2: that episode I think, right.

1215
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 3: Oh yes, I forgot about that one. Yeah, dyl you

1216
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 3: got to check that one out because it's oh it

1217
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 3: ties back to our KFC conspiracies as well. Anyway, we

1218
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 3: want to hear from you, folks. You can always call

1219
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:52,679
Speaker 3: us on a telephone. You can always send us an email.

1220
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:54,280
Speaker 3: You can always find us on the lines.

1221
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 4: That's right. Find this online at the handle Conspiracy Stuff

1222
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 4: where we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's

1223
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 4: where it gets crazy. On x FKA, Twitter and on YouTube,

1224
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 4: or we have video content glor if for you to

1225
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 4: enjoy on Instagram and TikTok. We're a Conspiracy Stuff show.

1226
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 2: We have a phone number. It is one eight three

1227
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 2: three std WYTK. Call in and let us know the

1228
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:22,839
Speaker 2: most conspiratorial thing you discussed over dinner with the family

1229
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 2: this holiday, right, what's the thing that was like, Oh

1230
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 2: my gosh, I can't believe we're talking about this right now.

1231
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:30,800
Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you when you call in.

1232
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 2: Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if

1233
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:35,040
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.

1234
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 2: If you'd like to send us an email with those thoughts.

1235
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 2: You can do that too.

1236
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:41,440
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence

1237
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void

1238
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:50,719
Speaker 3: writes back. Folks, friends, neighbors, the country people, city people.

1239
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 3: Lend us your Lend us your ears, your fingers, your voice.

1240
01:12:54,880 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 3: Tell us your craziest idea or conspiracy that a friend

1241
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 3: has pitched to you. Our acquaintance will accept as well.

1242
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 3: I'm thinking again of how what happened that made these

1243
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:10,920
Speaker 3: two guys in Texas say they were going to try

1244
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:13,760
Speaker 3: to take over an island with ninety thousand people on it.

1245
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 3: So what's the weirdest pitch that you either heard in

1246
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 3: that regard or that you pitched yourself? Conspiracy At iHeartRadio

1247
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 3: dot com.

1248
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1249
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:47,639
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1250
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.