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Speaker 1: Hey, they're listeners. This is producer DJ Daniel. The following

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Speaker 1: episode was recorded before the horrible events in Monterey Park.

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Speaker 1: The team will release an episode addressing the situation once

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Speaker 1: more details have emerged. Thank you and enjoy. It's's aluter

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Speaker 1: New Years. Yeah, happy New Years. It's it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: the New Year's Special. It's me Mia, I've got I've

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Speaker 1: got cherine with me. Yeah, how how are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I guess I guess it's I guess it's not the

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Speaker 1: New Year yet when we're recording it, but it will

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Speaker 1: be by the time you hear this. That counts. That counts.

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Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm I got a cat recently and I

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Speaker 1: called it funny. And then I learned later that this

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Speaker 1: year is the year of the Rabbit. So yeah, I

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Speaker 1: feel really happy about that. It's for this year. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So I'm good. I'm good. That's the that's that's Having

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Speaker 1: new cat is an amazing way to start any year. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: I agree, it was very exciting that. Do you know

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Speaker 1: what else is very exciting? Transitions? They paid me to

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Speaker 1: do this for some reason. All right, this this this year,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Chinese restaurant syndrome and the

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Speaker 1: whole sort of anti MSG craze. So that was I've

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Speaker 1: always been so big. I don't know. I grew up

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Speaker 1: in like, uh, I don't know, a diverse area in

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Speaker 1: San Diego, but we would always go to fun like regularly,

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Speaker 1: and the no MSG was like all over the menu

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Speaker 1: and everything. It's like this thing that I mean, every

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Speaker 1: restaurant I went to basically was just like come to us,

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Speaker 1: there's no MSG. So I'm really curious how it started

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Speaker 1: because growing up I was like, Okay, MSG is bad.

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Speaker 1: I guess you know what I mean to So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel like it wasn't It wasn't really, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: as intense where I was growing up, but that was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it was it was a very white

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Speaker 1: suburb but and people people were still freaked out about MSG.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't but like the the the Asian restaurants

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Speaker 1: didn't like talk about it ever, I don't know, but

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Speaker 1: it was still it was still very sort of like

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Speaker 1: like I remember I would go like eat dinner with

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Speaker 1: like white families and they're talking about MSG, and I

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Speaker 1: was like what for a good amount of time, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: having now talked about MSG for a bit. We should

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Speaker 1: we should ask like what what is MSG? And the

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Speaker 1: answer okay. So MSG stands from mono sodium glutamate, which

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Speaker 1: is it's just a salt, basically salt with like glutamate,

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Speaker 1: and it has a bunch of a mommy in it.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna read this thing from Kenji from Serious Eats

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Speaker 1: because every every every single article started that starts about

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Speaker 1: this has like this exact paragraph in it. So I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna read it instead of trying to rewrite this

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Speaker 1: paragraph that I want to. MSG is a sodium salt

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Speaker 1: of glutamic acid and a amino acid. It was first

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Speaker 1: isolated in ninety eight by Japanese biochemist Takua Ikeda, who

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Speaker 1: was trying to discover what exactly gave dashi, the Japanese

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Speaker 1: flavor broth with Comba, Japanese giant sea kelp. It's strong

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Speaker 1: savory character. Turns out that comba is packed with clutamic acid.

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Speaker 1: It was a Kita who coined the term mummmi, which

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Speaker 1: roughly translates a savory to describe to glutamic acid and

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Speaker 1: other seminar similar amino acids. Until that point, scientists had

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Speaker 1: only discovered the other four flavors sensed by the tongue

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Speaker 1: and the soft palate, salty, sweet, sour, and bitter. By

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Speaker 1: nine pure crystallite MSG, extracted from the abundant kelp in

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Speaker 1: the c around Japan, was being sold under the brand

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Speaker 1: name a Gi No Moto roughly Element of Flavor. The

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Speaker 1: company exists to this day. Now keep that in mind.

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Speaker 1: That's going to be important to the last part of

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Speaker 1: the story. But you know, in the meantime, you know,

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Speaker 1: around around around nineteen noweight, once this is discovered, that

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Speaker 1: it turns into this sort of enormous industry. Um here's

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Speaker 1: from a pretty good Men's Health article about it. By

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Speaker 1: the nineteen forties, number of American companies were producing MSG

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Speaker 1: domestically for the consumer, the most famous being accents. Okay, there,

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Speaker 1: there's like it's spelled acts. It's it's accent, but it's

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Speaker 1: spelled a c apostrophe C E N T. That's not Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: that's I lost me, Yeah said, which was it's it's

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Speaker 1: advertising is a bleak place. Yeah, that's that's a different episode,

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Speaker 1: I think partially, yes, also partially this episode. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: the thost famous one being Accent, which was advertised as

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Speaker 1: pure mono sodium glutimate that quote makes food flavors sing.

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Speaker 1: Various food magazines and community cookbooks featured the additive as

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Speaker 1: an ingredient and the likes of fried chicken wings and

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Speaker 1: barbecue sauce recipes. By nineteen sixty nine, fifty eight million

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Speaker 1: pounds of MSG were being produced in the US per year,

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Speaker 1: says food a story in Ian Moseby PhD. For an

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Speaker 1: entire generation, the ingredient was presented in a dizzying array

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Speaker 1: of food products breakfast cereals, TV dinners, frozen vegetables, baby food,

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Speaker 1: and soup produced by beloved brands such as Campbell's and Swanson,

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Speaker 1: which today offer foods products free of MSG additives. And Okay,

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Speaker 1: if you think about this for a second, it's actually

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Speaker 1: really weird that MSG s thought it as a Chinese thing,

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Speaker 1: because like, okay, MSG all told has only been around

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Speaker 1: for like a hundred years, right, It's heavily used in

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Speaker 1: the US for like thirty or forty years, Like it's

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Speaker 1: not in it's not really in China for that much

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Speaker 1: longer for this in the US, and it's used in

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Speaker 1: just like a bunch of American food. How did that start.

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Speaker 1: Do we know how that association started and continued? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well we'll get it. Most it mostly has to do

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Speaker 1: with like it has to do with restaurants, and it

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Speaker 1: specifically has to do with the part that we're getting

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Speaker 1: to about this letter, which is weird. And I will

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Speaker 1: say like that there are a lot of Chinese families

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Speaker 1: that like just use MSG for like they're cooking. My

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Speaker 1: my house never did it because we're lazy and most

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Speaker 1: of our cooking involves like as few ingredients and prep

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Speaker 1: as possible, so we just like it's also really in

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Speaker 1: uh Beingnameese food. I feel like uses it a lot too.

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Speaker 1: That that was my first association with it. So I

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Speaker 1: just know, say because I'm I was don't all fourteen,

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Speaker 1: I just said, okay, this is Vietnamese, but that's really

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Speaker 1: interesting to just know, like, well it's Japanese too, like yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's Asian, It's yeah, yeah, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but like it is just it is just it's just interesting,

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Speaker 1: like the like people in the U s were just like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like it's it was in everything.

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Speaker 1: People in the US were also just using it to

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Speaker 1: cook food. This is also a thing that like people

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Speaker 1: in China use a lot too, So it's not that

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Speaker 1: like Chinese people don't do. It's just like everybody. Like

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Speaker 1: the moment everyone got it, they were like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: this makes our food tastes better. She's more of it,

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Speaker 1: of course, I mean, I'm assuming. Once it got demonized,

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Speaker 1: it was like, oh, this is a Chinese thing, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know for sure. Yeah, I will be patient. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so this is this is in fact the next thing.

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Speaker 1: So nobody really cared about it until nineteen sixty eight

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Speaker 1: rolled around. Well, so for those sixty years, MSG was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: just use it. Yeah, yeah, Um, I'm forgetting where I'm

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Speaker 1: going to read apart from this journal article, and I've

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Speaker 1: forgotten to put in what journal is from because I'm

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Speaker 1: a hack and a fraud. I think it's a general

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Speaker 1: Natural health sure about that, right, Yeah, sure, it's it's

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Speaker 1: from It's from some journal sub doctors wrote it quote.

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Speaker 1: In the spring of nineteen, Dr Robert Homemana wrote to

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Speaker 1: the New England Journal of Medicine asking the assistance of

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Speaker 1: the journal's readership and invite identifying the source of phenomenon

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Speaker 1: that Dr Goa labeled the Chinese restaurant syndrome CRS, numbness

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Speaker 1: of his back and neck, palpitations, and general weakness after

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Speaker 1: he consumed meals in Chinese restaurants. Dr Gua hypothesize that

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Speaker 1: the source of his syndrome might be a reaction to

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Speaker 1: the soy sauce, the cooking wine, the high sodium content

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Speaker 1: of the food, or to the flavor enhancing mono sodium

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Speaker 1: glutamate m s G. Within two months, the journal received

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Speaker 1: a flurry of letters from readers who had noticed a

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Speaker 1: similar phenomenon after eating restaurant prepared Chinese food. So this

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Speaker 1: is the start of this whole thing. And there's one

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Speaker 1: thing I need to point out right away that is

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Speaker 1: in almost every single article about this that is wrong,

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Speaker 1: which is that this this this, this article says that

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Speaker 1: he's talking about Chinese food, which is true, but very

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Speaker 1: specifically and this and this is this is going to

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Speaker 1: be very important in about ten minutes. Well, I don't know, Tennis,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be important soon, which is he specifically has

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Speaker 1: a thing about how this is about northern Chinese food mhm.

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Speaker 1: And you know, this is something that is something that

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Speaker 1: everyone everyone sort of misses. The other thing that's interesting

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Speaker 1: about this is that you know, he says it could

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Speaker 1: be MSG, but you know, she he's treating MSG exactly

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Speaker 1: like all of the rest of the other stuff that's

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Speaker 1: in this that's in the food, right, he lists soy sauce,

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Speaker 1: he lists cooking wine. Maybe he's like, okay, maybe there's

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Speaker 1: too much salt, right, Like he's not really doing an

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Speaker 1: MSG thing. But everyone who reads this immediately focuses on

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Speaker 1: the M s G. Okay. So before I started researching this,

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Speaker 1: I had heard that this whole letter was actually fake.

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Speaker 1: It was actually a prank. And you know, this is

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Speaker 1: this is a thing that's like, it's kind of like okay.

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Speaker 1: So the story behind this was that it was supposed

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Speaker 1: to have been a prank by a white guy named

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Speaker 1: Dr Steele who made it up as a joke. And

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Speaker 1: this is a sort of like a folk like okay,

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Speaker 1: So this story is not true. The story I am

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Speaker 1: about to say is not true. It turns out this

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Speaker 1: letter is actually real. But there was there was basically

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Speaker 1: a story that went around that it was this guy

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Speaker 1: named Dr Steele who had made it up as a

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Speaker 1: way to get published in a journal for like a bet,

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Speaker 1: because like Dr Steele like claimed responsibility for it, and

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Speaker 1: that got out to researchers. But it turns yeah, and

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Speaker 1: so for a bit everyone was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: this whole thing was started by a prank. But it

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Speaker 1: turns out that's also not true. So this American Life

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Speaker 1: figured out that Dr Robert is a real guy. Uh

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Speaker 1: dcr Steele had pretended that he said that he made

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Speaker 1: it up the name. It's not true. This a real guy.

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Speaker 1: They talked to his family and his colleagues and all

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Speaker 1: of them were like, oh no, guad like wrote this thing.

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Speaker 1: And interestingly, there's a lot of racism here too, because

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Speaker 1: Dr Steele had claimed that home Man, which is okay.

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Speaker 1: So this is where things get weird. Um I'm saying

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Speaker 1: good because that's how you actually pronounce it. Um. It's

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Speaker 1: spelled h O m A n k w okay whoa yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so this this is this is some Yeah. So this

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Speaker 1: is a wad Giles bullshit, the previous attempt to sort

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Speaker 1: of romanize Chinese. But just think of way Giles and

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Speaker 1: it is the band of my existence. It's dogshit. Hi,

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Speaker 1: this is mea and post I made a mistake here.

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Speaker 1: K w okay is actually the standard Cantonese spelling of good.

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Speaker 1: Sorry about that. I am a dipshit who does not

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Speaker 1: speak Cantonese. Yeah, and enjoy the rest of the show.

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Speaker 1: They heard someone say ga and we're like this is

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Speaker 1: k w It's like no, no, it's not. Please, So

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Speaker 1: that's bad. It's literally the worst. Like if you if

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Speaker 1: you ever you know, so sometimes if you if you're

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Speaker 1: if you're looking at anything something that's just spelled really weirdly,

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Speaker 1: like or for example, like the way that schenkai check

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Speaker 1: is spelled is actually like like it's actually a way

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Speaker 1: Giles thing like that. There's there's a whole bunch of

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Speaker 1: like like that. Yeah, yeah you can find um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know that that's I mean, that explains a lot,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, it's what and part part of everything that's

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Speaker 1: happening to you here is that like so and then

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Speaker 1: this is also gonna be important later. KOs is a

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Speaker 1: is a Cantonese last name. Um, but it's it's it

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Speaker 1: gets really really confusing really quickly if you don't know

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Speaker 1: what's going on, because if if if you're reading, if

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Speaker 1: you're reading a word that's in Chinese in the US,

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Speaker 1: it could either be in Mandarin or in Cantonese, and

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Speaker 1: it also could be either written with the terrible way

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Speaker 1: Giles one, or it could be in opinion, which is

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Speaker 1: like the one that's actually sort of usable. Um but

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Speaker 1: Dr Steele because again the way it's written is h

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Speaker 1: O m A and k w o kay and Dr

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Speaker 1: Steele claims that he wrote it to be like human

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Speaker 1: croc of shit like how man kruk. Yeah, excuse me,

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Speaker 1: people like people believe, yeah, well he's dead, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's so disgusting. Yeah, like this is this is

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Speaker 1: so racist, and it's like, you know, but this like

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Speaker 1: people people believe this for a while because yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, but okay, so eventually people figure out that

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Speaker 1: it's not true. And I'm going to read something from

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Speaker 1: from this American Life piece where they talk about how

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Speaker 1: they figured out that it was actually like that Homenko

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Speaker 1: was like actually a real guy. And when you read

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Speaker 1: the original letter, there are details that seem more likely

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Speaker 1: to come from her father was just a close father

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Speaker 1: than from Howard. How Howard steels the doctor, like when

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Speaker 1: he said he booved to the US, which the real

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Speaker 1: doctor Good did, and how he's very specific the syndrome

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Speaker 1: happens with Northern Chinese food in the sixties. How many

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Speaker 1: white guys in Philadelphia could have made that distinction? Also,

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Speaker 1: oh man cool is an actual Cantonese name. What are

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Speaker 1: the odds that dr steel through together random sounding Chinese

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Speaker 1: syllables to arrive at that? So, okay, I read that,

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Speaker 1: and I had a revelation. I I cracked this case.

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Speaker 1: Why the funk open? I figured it out. I figured

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Speaker 1: out what was going on with this letter. Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited for this. I'm cold hypen this up for

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Speaker 1: like hours, I'm so excited. So I'm bts of this.

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Speaker 1: We have like a group chat essentially, and I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if I can make this recording. But

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Speaker 1: then Mia dropped that that bomb, being like I have

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Speaker 1: this big break breakthrough, and I was like, I gotta

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Speaker 1: be there. I just gotta be there. And so I

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Speaker 1: kicked James out because James couldn't make me time I

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Speaker 1: could make. And so here I have I have. I

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Speaker 1: have not told Sharine what the breakthrough this is? Same time. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So is Cantonese right? And she specifies in this letter

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Speaker 1: that this is about Northern Chinese food. My thesis right

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Speaker 1: here right now is that this whole letter it's actually about.

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Speaker 1: It's actually about Cantonese anti Northerlan sentiments. This is a

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Speaker 1: whole last thing in China. Canton or like the region

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Speaker 1: that was called Canton on the west is like where

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Speaker 1: Cantonese people aren't. This is like this is the very

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Speaker 1: south of China, right there is a whole last thing

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Speaker 1: in China. Let like, people from the North people from

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Speaker 1: the South hate each other. Um, it's actually very weird.

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Speaker 1: So my my family is like half from the north,

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Speaker 1: half from the South, and like when my mom was

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Speaker 1: growing up, she like she would like get made fun

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Speaker 1: of for how she like rolled dumplings because people were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you rolled dumplings like a Southerner And She's like, what

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Speaker 1: it is a whole fucking thing. It's like people hate

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Speaker 1: each other, yea, how else how would you know those intricracies,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, unless you were from there,

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Speaker 1: like had history there. Yeah, well I mean I was

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Speaker 1: just this is the thing that that that's persisted in

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Speaker 1: the U s too. You you still you still run

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Speaker 1: into this stuff like they're they're they're like there are

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Speaker 1: definitely like candidese restaurants were like you probably shouldn't speak Mandarin.

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Speaker 1: They're like, there's there's like this is this is still

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Speaker 1: a thing. It's not really talked about very much because

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Speaker 1: it's like it's it's kind of an internal Chinese thing.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the one place you actually really gotta

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Speaker 1: see this, you gotta see this from the Hong during

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Speaker 1: the Hong Kong protests in both sides, because like, okay,

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Speaker 1: so there there there's a strain of the sort of

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Speaker 1: like like there there's a strain of Chinese nationalism that's

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Speaker 1: very sort of like it was doing this like really

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Speaker 1: very sort of like anti southern racism from you know,

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Speaker 1: you get this from a lot of the Chinese nationalist

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Speaker 1: on the CCP side, there's another faction of like the

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong protesters who's like, thing was like, we're not

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Speaker 1: actually Chinese because we're not like the Northerners. You're a

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Speaker 1: communist and like evil, which which is really funny because

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Speaker 1: like you know, like okay, the if if you if

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Speaker 1: you run through the actual history of communism in China,

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Speaker 1: it's like, okay, like like one of one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the largest communists like strikes that ever happened

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Speaker 1: was in Hong Kong. Like sure, fine, but you know,

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Speaker 1: but obviously, like I'm simplifying all of this enormously because

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Speaker 1: it's very complicated. There's a lot of regional ship that's

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Speaker 1: going on here. Yeah, but so your your thesis is

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Speaker 1: that the person that started all of this was like

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Speaker 1: maybe like from the South or like just like yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that is that is definite, Like that is

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Speaker 1: that is like the like that is the most Cantonese

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Speaker 1: asked name I've ever heard, like that that that guy,

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Speaker 1: that guy, that guy is definitely from southern China. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: my my thesis is specifically it's this Cantonese guy going

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Speaker 1: a funk. Those nerds that there's I hate their I

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Speaker 1: hate their asses, I hate their food, their food at

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Speaker 1: ship eating it makes me sick. But because because it's

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Speaker 1: the US that the subtlety of this gets lost and

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Speaker 1: everyone just runs with it is like Chinese restaurant syndrome.

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Speaker 1: Even though this is the this is this is my theories,

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Speaker 1: this is this is like this is like kind of

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Speaker 1: semi obscured, like Chenny's like internal grudge v point, Like

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Speaker 1: like knowing the origin point makes a lot more sense

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Speaker 1: now to be honest, like, why would this be some

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Speaker 1: random like why would he specify a region, like a

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Speaker 1: very specific region that that's just I don't I don't

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Speaker 1: know that that that that that's my theory. I could

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Speaker 1: be wrong about this, but all it fits with all

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Speaker 1: of the details, so it checks out. It checks out,

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Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, So okay, alright, so so this this

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Speaker 1: letter happens and there's like a flurry of letters rather

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Speaker 1: people talking about this, and okay, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about why this got picked up the way it does. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna still yeah, this is this is I'm going

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Speaker 1: to read from every single article in this also goes

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Speaker 1: exactly the same way. So I'm gonna read from Mens

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Speaker 1: Health version. So you get this section of it before

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Speaker 1: I talked about why it's I think like not sufficient

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Speaker 1: to capture what was happening. Mostly describes the late fift

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Speaker 1: is a time of heightened anti Chinese sentiment. By the

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, domestic and international politics had shifted towards a

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00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,400
Speaker 1: fairly clear anti communist agenda. In fact, he says during

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Speaker 1: this time, anti Chinese sentiments were so widespread and accepted

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Speaker 1: that most Americans didn't consider their apprehension to be racial bias. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is true as far as it goes. But we

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Speaker 1: need to go to ADS and we'll come back from ADS.

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Speaker 1: I will tell em what else was going on in

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Speaker 1: that week? Hell yeah, all right, and we're back. We're back.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about how this like letter to like a

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Speaker 1: journal in New England suddenly became an entire like national

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Speaker 1: American thing. Okay, So the way this happened is that

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Speaker 1: this got picked up by the news. Now there's a

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Speaker 1: huge New York Times article about this, and that article

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Speaker 1: is published on May nineteenth, nineteen. Now, Sharine, do you

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Speaker 1: know what else was going on in May? I've heard

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Speaker 1: a lot of ship went down in the sixties. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so this is this is right, This is like smack

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Speaker 1: dab in the middle of May sixty eight in France.

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Speaker 1: This is this is like one week after the Night

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Speaker 1: of the Barricades UM. Three days before this was published.

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Speaker 1: The situationists who are like these, this like ultra left

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Speaker 1: student organization who who who at this point are occupying

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Speaker 1: the Sorbonne like they have fully taken control of their campus.

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Speaker 1: They have run the cops out, they have run the

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Speaker 1: administration out. UM. Three days before this is published. The

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Speaker 1: students at the Sorbond, reacting to a factory occupation that

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Speaker 1: they heard about, send out this famous communicate calling for

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Speaker 1: the occupation of all factories in France, and like it

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Speaker 1: fucking happens, Like the workers in France take control of

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Speaker 1: like a huge portion of Francis factories, like the brain

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Speaker 1: factories are under control of the workers um like by

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Speaker 1: by by this time, like this is happening, right, the

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00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,640
Speaker 1: police have like the police are fighting them, but they're

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Speaker 1: losing um. Two days before this article is published, uh,

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Speaker 1: the sorband sends this to the Chinese consulate quote, shaken

371
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Speaker 1: your boots, bureaucrats, The international power of the workers councils

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Speaker 1: will soon wipe you out. Humanity won't be happy until

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Speaker 1: the last bureaucrat is hung with the guts of the

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Speaker 1: last capitalists. Long live the factory occupations, Long live the

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Speaker 1: great Charitese proletarian revolution elected twenties seven, betrayed by the

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Speaker 1: Stalinist bureaucrats. It goes on and on, like this is

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Speaker 1: just what they're sending to the maoists right like that,

378
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 1: that is that is how far left these people are,

379
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 1: Like they're they're telling the Maoist shaking your boots, Bereaucrats,

380
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,920
Speaker 1: the international power of work, those councils will soon wipe

381
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Speaker 1: you out. Like it is wild in sense. Yeah, I

382
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 1: mean the fact that this is happening all during all

383
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, yeah, I don't know, that's no, yeah, no, one,

384
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: it's it's really important. I have never read an article

385
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 1: that actually puts this together, and it was like, it's

386
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 1: not just that going on right, Like, you know, if

387
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 1: you like the situation in France, they are a week

388
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 1: and a half out from de Gaul, who was the

389
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: president literally fleeing the country because he's so convinced that

390
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: they're about to lose the country to communism. Like well,

391
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: and I should say when I say communism, by the way,

392
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 1: part of that message to the to the Maoist is

393
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 1: down with the state revolutionary Marxisms like that that that

394
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 1: these are these people are like these people have are

395
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 1: Marxists who have gone like so far left they've essentially

396
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: become anarchists. It's it's wild and mean, you know. And

397
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: also what's happening, like the prog Spring is happening during

398
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 1: the middle of this um. This is also like this

399
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 1: is a month after the Holy Week uprising in the US,

400
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: which is so after MLK was killed, there were these

401
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 1: like probably the most intense riots to US has ever seen,

402
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: like even like even more so than like the ones

403
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: we saw the Holy Week riot, Like they were like

404
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 1: like there there were there were like like thousands of

405
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: paratroopers We're being deployed to like kill rioters. Yeah, like nuts, yeah,

406
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 1: like that was that was probably the closest like some

407
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 1: of the closes the US has ever had to just

408
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 1: like actually having revolution in the government, losing control of

409
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: the entire country and like and what while this article

410
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,120
Speaker 1: is coming out, like there are still even in May,

411
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: the Holy Week up risings in April, but like even

412
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 1: if like even in May, there are still people on

413
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 1: the streets fighting the cops, like while while this article

414
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: is being written, and you know, if you look at

415
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: the there's something about first on that entire year. I

416
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: mean it's wild like the six May sixty like that

417
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: that that year is just the year like the entire

418
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: world went. I mean there's like like like they they

419
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 1: I can't remember if they act successfully over through the government.

420
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 1: They like almost over through the government of Pakistan, like

421
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of students shot in Mexico because they're

422
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 1: trying to bring down the government. Like it's everywhere. There

423
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 1: was all this stuff going on um And you know,

424
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: also the everything that is happening is we're two years

425
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: into the Culture Revolution and it's kind of interesting because

426
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 1: but by sixty eight we're kind of into the backlash

427
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: phase of the culture Revolution, where most of what's happening

428
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: is that the sort of various rebel factions that formed

429
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 1: the nine seven and nine sixty six are just getting

430
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: like slaughtered by the sort of like state factions. And

431
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: it's more it's it's it's a culture revolution. It's really complicated,

432
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: but like bye bye. By this point, the sort of

433
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 1: like revolution part of it has like kind of calmed

434
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: down and it's more the state in its sort of

435
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 1: new form taking control. But you know, if you're living

436
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: through this, right, it looks like the culture revolutions happens

437
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: in in in sixty six and then sixty seven, and

438
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: then suddenly there was a culture revolution happening literally everywhere.

439
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: And this is the context of the MSG scared like

440
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 1: kicks off in right. It It starts in like right

441
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: in the middle of arguably the two most radical months

442
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: of the entire twentieth century. Wow. Yeah, And and this

443
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: is this is the kind of ship that starts like

444
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: just an absolute mania in the American mind that is

445
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: powerful enough that like sixty years later, it's still around.

446
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 1: I mean it feels like the it happening as such

447
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: like a a manic time, like people were probably already

448
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: like kind of feeling that energy. Right. It was like

449
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: everything that was directed everywhere, even at this article. Yeah.

450
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: And I genuinely think if if this had happened two

451
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: months later, two months earlier, I don't think I don't

452
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: think there would have been like a big scare about it,

453
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 1: Like it might have been a thing I suck around

454
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: for a bit. But I think the fact that the

455
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,640
Speaker 1: end of the New York Times article happen came out

456
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: exactly like in the middle of May sixty eight, and

457
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: that like the original one comes out like right before

458
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: the like the original article that gets set to the

459
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 1: thing comes out like a couple of weeks before the

460
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: Holy Week up Rising. I think it was the fact

461
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: that it was exactly in this moment where everyone on

462
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 1: Earth is if you we're living through this, like this

463
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: is the capital or revolution like has come and you know,

464
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 1: and that that chattered everyone's brains. Like I don't know.

465
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: I wonder like do people remember what it was like

466
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: like when like when like the height of twenty twenty

467
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: was happening, Like just how sort of wild like there

468
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: was just psychologically I'm telling you there was like an energy. Yeah, yeah,

469
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: that's collective strange. I mean, like obviously it's different than

470
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: it was sixty eight, But I really do agree with you,

471
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 1: like if it happened in January, you know, yeah, and

472
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: you know I So the the other thing that's interesting

473
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: about about this whole sort of like Chinese restaurant syndrome

474
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: is that you could actually track it spread like across

475
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: other countries by sort of like moments of like peak

476
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: anti Chinese like sentiment and also anti Japanese sentiment to

477
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: a lesser extent, because that that that sort of replaces

478
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: the anti Chinese stuff by the time you to the

479
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties, but will not replaces. But it's like

480
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: it's like the dominant mode of like we have a

481
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: person who needs to be afraid of any stage. Um,

482
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: but there was interesting. Okay, so if if if if

483
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: you if you look up, um, like if you're looking

484
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: for you like medical stuff about Chinese restaurant syndime. One

485
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: of the things you will find is a case report

486
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: of the Indian Journal of Critical Medical Care from two

487
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: thousand and seventeen claiming that they were treating a patient

488
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 1: who got Chinese restaurant syndrome and like couldn't speak because

489
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: the thing in the back of his throat had like inflamed,

490
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: and you know, and then they had this whole thing

491
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: about like this this is like this is like a

492
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: serious disorder, and they specifically cited that letter to the

493
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: editor from sixty eight the power of that thing. And

494
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, Okay, so if you look what what was

495
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: going on in India in two thousand seventeen, and it

496
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: turns out the thing that's going on is like a

497
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: giant rise and anti Chinese sentiment culminating in the toy

498
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: seventeen Indian Chinese border incidents. Where did you remember when

499
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: all those guys you're like beating each other to death

500
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: in the mountains with sticks? I do baking. Remember that

501
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: I as so sad and many times in my life,

502
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: and especially post pandemic, my brain is broken, but I

503
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: do vaguely remember that I had kind of forgotten about it,

504
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: and then and then I slok at this article and

505
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: sol in seventeen, I was like, wait, hold on, hold on,

506
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: wasn't that wasn't didn't didn't that happen in twenty seventeen.

507
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 1: And it's funny because like, yeah, right, attentual rise again,

508
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: suddenly Chinese restaurants and it reappears. It's it's really, it's

509
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: really incredible. It's it's yeah, it's an incredible set of

510
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: brain worms. Um. I just I mean, this is definitely

511
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: not on topic, I guess, but even just seeing like

512
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: COVID being blamed on China, like there's always like a

513
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: like a way for ignorant people just to point the

514
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: finger at China, which is really fucking shitty. It's so yeah,

515
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: it's yeah, I mean, I think it's it's just sort

516
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,239
Speaker 1: of like like one of the things you sort of

517
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: need to have a national project is that in order

518
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: for you to be in order for you to be

519
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: like a nation, you have to have you have to

520
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: have another You have have people who aren't part of

521
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: the nation, and the US is pretty effectively they have

522
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: they you know, they can have the sort of rotating

523
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 1: cast of people who like aren't like from the nation, right,

524
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: if you want to stay in, there are people that

525
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: need to stay out. Yeah. Sometimes with Mexico sometimes sometimes

526
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 1: you get it with sort of like like internal subversion

527
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: from like black people, like additions people. But yeah, you know,

528
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: they have this rotating cast. China is always one of

529
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: the ones that come back to because it's just big

530
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of them, and you know, people

531
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: are easily feared by it. Like I think it's like

532
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: it's unknown, and maybe people don't understand it very well

533
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: that don't look into it themselves and want to be educated.

534
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: But forever reason, people fear it so easily, and it's

535
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: so bizarre. It's so bizarre. Yeah it sucks. Oh yeah, Okay,

536
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: So I'm going to do an ad break and then

537
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about more of this stuff because it

538
00:28:54,440 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: keeps going and we're back, all right. So obviously we're

539
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: dealing with sort of anti Chinese sentiment and anti Japanese

540
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: sentiments as you know, Japanese sentiment escalating as the safety

541
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: surting into like the eighties and nineties. But there's more

542
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: going on here. Um. Part of the reason you know,

543
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: back like this in theory could have been about like

544
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: soy sauce. Right, Like, there's a lot of things that

545
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: they could have picked out of that to be the

546
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: thing about, but they picked M. S. G. And part

547
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: of the reason they picked MSG is that this is

548
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: the period when people start like figuring out that food

549
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:44,239
Speaker 1: additives exist. Mm hmmm, and people don't get really sort

550
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: of touchy about it. And actually Ralph Nader uh famous. Yeah,

551
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: so he's around in the sixties, um because he's old

552
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: as ship. Yeah yeah, and he's you know, okay, so

553
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: I give I give him credit for for he has

554
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: probably saved as many lives as like any other American,

555
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: single American you can name, by being the guy who

556
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: like lobbied to have seatbelts in cars being mandatory. I

557
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: think that was not before because the US is a

558
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: like truly deranged country. Yeah, he wasn't half bad most

559
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: of the time. Yeah, but but come on, he's also

560
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: one of the guys who's like the big pusher for

561
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: getting the US government to study MSG and a lot

562
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: of other food editives and like nine so you know,

563
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: and like there's a bunch of other food items that

564
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: they're studying the health effects of. And and on the

565
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: one hand, like, yeah, it probably is good to study

566
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 1: the effects of like food editives because like I don't know,

567
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: companies do stuff that sucks all the time, and so

568
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: it is good to study with a your food. On

569
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: the other hand, Okay, it's gonna sound really ignorant, so

570
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: I apologize, What where again if you already said this,

571
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: where was that foul? Where was mustry found? As it

572
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: created in the lab? Like what's the Yeah, but by

573
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: this point it's basically creating a lab. The first time

574
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: someone was able to distill it was they did this

575
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: whole distillation process of seaweed seed. Yeah. But but but

576
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: by this point, it's no worries. Yeah, no, like by

577
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: bye bye bye, I mean even by like they're early

578
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: actually twenties. I think it's it's mostly being produced artificially,

579
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: which is probably but yeah, yeah, and it makes it

580
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: taste better. But like, like you know, it is something

581
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: that like you like you can't find it like in

582
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: in dashi, like you can find it in like soup

583
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: broths and stuff like from the way from seaweed. So

584
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: it's it's not like I didn't know that. I've known

585
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: about MSG for most of my life and I never

586
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: like for whatever reason. Growing up, we always associated with

587
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: sodia like salt, salty. Yeah, well, I mean it is right,

588
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: like it is a kind of salt, but like I

589
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: don't know, like people people have this whole thing like oh,

590
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: it's artificial. It's like like yeah, we make it artificially,

591
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: but like it's not it's not like it's not a

592
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: thing that you can get out of plants. It's just

593
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: that we don't do it that way because it's easier. Yeah,

594
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: the source of it is the artificial. But also like

595
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a stickler on this one thing when

596
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,479
Speaker 1: you eat like I don't know, so many other and

597
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: drink so many other things. Like there was cocaine and coke. Yeah,

598
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: there's every every every every every American like in nineteen

599
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: sixty nine is like by by their body volume, drinking

600
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: two pounds of lead a year. So like it's like

601
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: like this is the thing you're gonna stick up. Yeah,

602
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: well and and you know, and this this is this

603
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,479
Speaker 1: is this is sort of the problem with with what

604
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: Ralph Nader is doing with this sort of like pushing

605
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: the government investigation of it, is that like you know,

606
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: like I don't know how racist nine nine, Ralph Nader

607
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: was My My guess is that I don't think that

608
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: his big thing was we need to study this because

609
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: it's the dirty Chinese like salt or whatever. I I

610
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: think I think mostly just wanted to you wanted the

611
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: thing to study food editives. I could be wrong about that.

612
00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: I don't know. I haven't I've looked into this exact

613
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: zero percent. But like, you know, the problem is that

614
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: like once the sort of racial panic is going, like

615
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: you can't put you can't put the sort of cork

616
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: back in the bottle, right and you know, okay, so

617
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: there have been a bunch of studies about this, um

618
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: and like but but you know, okay, the problem with

619
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: what's happening is that because of the way MS has

620
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: been sort of racialized, like the studies don't matter. Like

621
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: it's it just does not matter what anyone actually sort

622
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: of writes about it until you get an actual cultural

623
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: change because the study science is irrelevant. Um, they have

624
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: the study to justify a bunch of things and that's

625
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: the only study they care about. Yeah, it's it's it's

626
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: it's like the like vector that's like the like the

627
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: fake factory of vaccines cause autism. Ship, Like, no, it's

628
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: they just believe this. They have one paper that's literally

629
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:57,479
Speaker 1: a joke exactly. Yeah, that's like, but disprove it. But

630
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: like noah's a million others like that. By the way,

631
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: that study, I want to point this out. The methodology

632
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: of that study was they asked parents who thought their

633
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 1: kids had developed autism because of the vaccine if they

634
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: thought their kids had developed autism because of the vaccine,

635
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: and then the parents said yes, and that's the study.

636
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: That's the study. Yeah, that's a lot of study. It's

637
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: a joke, like it's it's literally a Twitter pool. They

638
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: like got published, and they're attracted because al right, like

639
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,720
Speaker 1: this this is the scientific basis of all this bullshit,

640
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 1: and what qualifies is a fucking study. Then you could

641
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: you could, I don't know you can. You can publish

642
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: fucking anything if you put your mind to it. This

643
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: is this. This, this is what I'm telling all of you, like,

644
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: follow your dreams, try to get something published. They published

645
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: this bullshit, so like you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna

646
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: do a study. Yeah. Well the other thing. The other thing, specifically,

647
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: like there's a real problem here with like this is

648
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: everything with medical studies because like you can have a

649
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: medical study that you get published with a sample size

650
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: of one because it's you found a thing and a

651
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 1: guy and you're like, oh, I'm gonna publish this, but

652
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: you like medical studies, like you could just like you

653
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: could publish any bullshit and like it sucks. But okay,

654
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: so all right, like lots of so after this, there

655
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,919
Speaker 1: are lots of studies by lots of people, and like

656
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: mostly what they find is they can't find any Okay.

657
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: So there's some like initial studies that like find some

658
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: alarming stuff in mice. But the problem with these studies

659
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: that what they're doing is Okay, yeah, it turns out

660
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: you can take a mouse and you just like fill

661
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: a syringe with MSG and inject them with it. It's

662
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: bad for them, but like yeah, yeah, you would you

663
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: injected a mouse with pure salt, and bad things happen.

664
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: Like yes, if you took a human being and you

665
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: injected fucking a third of a cup of MSG directly

666
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: into their veins, it would probably be bad for them,

667
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 1: like okay, you know, right, um, And they found out

668
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: the conclusion from that was basically like okay, if someone

669
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: ate like a third of a cup of MSG raw

670
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: having not eaten for like forty eight hours, it would

671
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: probably do things that are not great for you. Can't

672
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: you say that. I've had a bunch of other fings

673
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: like like I don't know if if if you didn't

674
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 1: eat for twenty four hours and eight a third or

675
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: a couple of salts, like that's probably that's not good

676
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 1: for you. Like I don't do that, So, like you know, okay,

677
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: very very specific circumstances have to light it up for

678
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 1: you to have reactions. So there's a study from two

679
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: thousands where they also this is also another empty stomach

680
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 1: study by the way, because they've okay, no one has

681
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 1: ever been able to replicate like any of these results

682
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: with a person eating food that has MSG in it.

683
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: They're everybody able to do it. They've been able to

684
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: get some results. If you have people eat like basically

685
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: pure MSG and have not eaten any food like around it, Yeah,

686
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: it's like you're that's useless because the the molecule at

687
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: that point it probably interacts with other things and that's

688
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like if it's just I'm

689
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: not the actual I don't know, Yeah, I'm of a chemistry.

690
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna let the chemistry nerds arguing I did

691
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: fail a p chem so great. Yeah, I I look

692
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: how I only had to take chemistry in so I

693
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: just didn't take a p KEM because, like, I suck.

694
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 1: I took a CHM like my first my freshman year.

695
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: Now it's like, let's not do this again. I can't

696
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: do this. Just don't take the thing. I wanted to

697
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: be a psychiatrist for a really long time, but failing

698
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: AP chemistry and just experiencing chemistry, I was like, I can't. Yeah,

699
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: it sucks. It's the worst. But okay. So the reason

700
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: I was talking about the vaccines cause as like autism

701
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: ship is that there was another thing with MSG where

702
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: people were claiming it was causing asthma and it no,

703
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: they had there. They had another looking incredibly elaborate pseudoscience

704
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 1: bullshit about like the MSG like getting absorbed, like getting

705
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: absorbed improperly through like like fetal membranes. That's like completely nonsense,

706
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't. Yeah, people people like what what white

707
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: people love to say that the diseases they've gotten from

708
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: fucking the fact that like they're they're the air in

709
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,399
Speaker 1: their house is n c O two by volume and

710
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: like and and could because because they've decided to run

711
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: an entire country by just putting fucking trucking yards everywhere,

712
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: like okay, a finger to point at right, like it

713
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 1: can't be yeah, you know you know what I mean, Like, yeah,

714
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: I should. I should make this clear. By the way,

715
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: when when I when I when I when when when

716
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: I say when I say that like autisms, I'm not sorry.

717
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: When when I say that asthma specifically is when I'm

718
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: talking about the bad air specifically talking about asthma, I'm

719
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: not talking about autism with that that that that is

720
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: not what causes autism or whatever, like just it's cool

721
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: and also funk autism speaks, yes, yeah, but yeah, I

722
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: want to put that on the record. That's what I mean.

723
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not saying that trucks cause autism. They don't.

724
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, so okay, but there's a lot of

725
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: like incredibly weird, racial, very dumb, anti scientific panic about it.

726
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: It's possible that there existed so Ofvisually it was about

727
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: like like anyone who eats this will have these sentiments, right,

728
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 1: and then over time the argument got sort of fizz

729
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: down to there might be a group of people who

730
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: in the population, like a small group people who are

731
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: like specifically sensitive to it, and that's probably plausible. Like

732
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: there's some experimental evidence that shows that there could be

733
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: a group of people for whom they're more sensitive to

734
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 1: it than a regular person And I don't know, people

735
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 1: of allergies like whatever, like yeah, yeah, yeah, Like it's

736
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: not like like yeah, it's it's not a thing to

737
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 1: sort of like like yeah, I don't know, like if

738
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 1: you're a person who gets allergy reactions to ship, like yeah,

739
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 1: that's allergies, right, but like it's it's not the sort

740
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: of like I don't know if the panic about it

741
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: is utterly unjustified. There may be if there may be

742
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: a group of people who it has some effect on

743
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: because there are larger to it or whatever. But yeah,

744
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: imagine imagine demonizing peanuts because there's a group of people

745
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: that can't eat peanuts, you know what I mean? Like,

746
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 1: that's that's that's why, like why would you ever do that?

747
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: To be fair, I I am okay with demonizing peanuts specifically,

748
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: specifically if it gets people to stop fucking were shipping

749
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: that bastard Jimmy Carter, who was a neoliberal ghoul, and

750
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 1: his reputation has been fucking just like like, his reputation

751
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,240
Speaker 1: has been saved entirely by the fact that every single

752
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: person who came after him was an utterly deranged war

753
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: criminal and his war crime was like suppressing well he

754
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: was a peanut farmer. Oh sorry, sorry, this is this

755
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: is this is this is the this is this is

756
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: the the deep Jimmy Carter lore for okay it yeah, okay,

757
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: but you know, all right, So going going back, I

758
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: think so this was the kind of thing that like,

759
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: you know, people avoiding msg is just kind of had

760
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: just kind of been like like a part of daily life,

761
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: Like it was just like a thing that existed in

762
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:03,959
Speaker 1: the world. But it wasn't like at a certain point

763
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: it became the kind of thing that people would talk

764
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: about like in conversation and like they'll did you know,

765
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: you could just get people to do ant msg rans,

766
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 1: But it wasn't really a sort of like mainstream political

767
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: issue in the way that it had been like in

768
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: that st nine where there's well, the only thing that

769
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: happened is in the nineties the FDA did to study

770
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,720
Speaker 1: about it. The f d A was like, it's fine,

771
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: don't don't don't eat three grams of it at one time. Likes,

772
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: as long as you're not sitting there like eating MSG

773
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: raw out of the fucking like you think about like

774
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: hyd syrup, why yeah, and like like by by volume,

775
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 1: hypric dose cord and syrup was killed way more people

776
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: than also. Now now there's like a whole thing about

777
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: like MSG causing obesity, which I I don't know if

778
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: that's true or not. I think their studies are fucking whack,

779
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's it might cause obesity like

780
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: every other food that the US has made in the

781
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: last twenty years. Yeah, yeah, and what what what one

782
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: one day we will do a episode about like the

783
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: politics of anti fatnists because it's fucked but today we're

784
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: we're doing this episode and okay, so you know, every

785
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: once in a while, the way the way of this

786
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 1: stuff work, every once in a while, there would be

787
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: a sort of like like a mainstream like Asian American

788
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: figure who would talk about it. For example, there's there's

789
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: there's a Korean chef named David Chang who talks about

790
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: it um and he he did some like he gave

791
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: speeches about it and the start demonization of it, but

792
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: it didn't really get back to Mainsham discourse until when

793
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 1: are Good Friends a Gino Moto. The people who made

794
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: the stuff in the first place hired a bunch of

795
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: Asian American like celebrities to do a pro MSG campaign.

796
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 1: So they hired Eddie Huong, who's like a writer and

797
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: chef who's like probably most famous for being the guy

798
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 1: who wrote Fresh off the Boat, and so that they

799
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: have this whole sort of campaign and this like takes

800
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: off right like he he. This is this is one

801
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: of those things that was like completely forgotten that happened

802
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 1: in that no one now remembers because this happens like

803
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: before COVID, like before we had the lockdowns and before

804
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, it escapes my memory. I I have

805
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: no member this happening either, but apparently it did. I

806
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: don't know. I was I think this was still well

807
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: the I think this is well the election was still

808
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: going on, so yeah, the best time to do that

809
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 1: year everything happens. But okay, so you know this campaign

810
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: like takes off like like any Huang's on on NBC

811
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: and did you like the talk show circuit with Jenny

812
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: Am advocating for like so that their whole thing is

813
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: that they wanted to remove Chinese restaurants sent from the dictionary,

814
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 1: and they had this whole like hashtag redefinance CRS is

815
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: like the redefining Chinese Restaurant syndrome, and this is like

816
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: a whole thing, and you know, and there's there's there's

817
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: something okay, but this was one of the things that's

818
00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: gonna drew me to the story because if you look

819
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: at the press for this, right, it's like activists pressure

820
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: maryon Webster and like that's kind of true, Like it's

821
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: superficially it is kind of what happened, and like, yeah,

822
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: I'm glad the dictionary change the entry to say like

823
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 1: this is like outdated and kind of bullshit, but like, okay,

824
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: think about what actually happened here, right. A company that

825
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 1: makes a product hired a bunch of a bunch of

826
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: sort of Asian American like big celebrity people to do

827
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: a marketing campaign for them in the name of anti racism,

828
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: which like, yes, I I am glad we are addressing

829
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 1: the racism in our own MSG. However, common I feel

830
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: like it's a really sort of like it's a It's

831
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: a really literal example of the kind of like vopidity

832
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: and listlessness of like Asian American identity and culture and

833
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: politics like pre COVID, like this is this is this

834
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 1: is this hands something like early January, right, so COVID

835
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: is still sort of like some disease in China, like

836
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,280
Speaker 1: we haven't hit full of racis and yet. And again

837
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 1: like this is not like an activist campaign, you know,

838
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: I mean, like activists get on board with it, I guess,

839
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 1: but like activism is doing an ad campaign for a

840
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 1: company that makes salt right. Yeah, it's not exactly grassroots

841
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 1: or yea, and and you know, okay, and it works

842
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: right like this this is a thing that like the

843
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: Asian American community like picks up right, I mean sort of.

844
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. I I don't remember it, but I

845
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 1: when I look looking looking back on the articles and

846
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: hashtags and stuff, it's like, wow, they got lots of tweets.

847
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 1: But you know, I I think I think the reason

848
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: that this worked is is because of the sort of

849
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: self conception of like Asian American nous. Is this like

850
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: backstory of like like immigrants stepping off the boat and

851
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: they start a restaurant, and then your kids get an

852
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: education to the answer the professional class, and like there

853
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: isn't like I don't know, like this is in fact,

854
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: this is literally like part of the reason I'm doing Also,

855
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 1: it was like this is literally what happened to my family.

856
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: Like they like they showed up from Taiwan, they worked

857
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: in a restaurant, then they opened a restaurant, and then

858
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: like I don't know, like every successive generation, well okay,

859
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 1: I was gonna say every every successive generation got more

860
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: like professionally, but like I have a bunch of doctors onthing.

861
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: But but then they also produced me, who's a podcaster.

862
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm defying Asian American stereotypes bite being more

863
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: dipship than my parents. But you know, like this has

864
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 1: become like this single sort of cultural narrative of like

865
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 1: what it is to be in Asian American, Right, Like

866
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: you see this in every single story that Asian American

867
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: media like has produced in the last like ten years.

868
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 1: It has one plot. Right, There's a family in the US.

869
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: They're trying to fit in. They almost always have some

870
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: kind of small business, and then something appears that challenges

871
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: their ability to like assimilate into American society. This is

872
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: and then you know, they deal with it and that's

873
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: the end. Right, This is a plot of crazy rich Asians,

874
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: is a plot of everything ever all at once. The

875
00:46:58,480 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: plot of Fresh of the Boat is the prout of

876
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: the fucking c W. Kung Fu show. It is the plot.

877
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: Like literally everything that like we produce has one plot,

878
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: and it's this. And the reason why is it's you know,

879
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: there's the reason why. This is the only sort of

880
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,959
Speaker 1: like piece of media that that the sort of Asian

881
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: American culture class have been able to produce. Is the

882
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: reason why all the fucking activism and ad campaigns are

883
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: just like, fucking we got hired by a company and

884
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about where racism racism is bad, so

885
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: about this company can sell more product. Like, the reason

886
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 1: is this is because this is an incredibly marketable self

887
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 1: conception of Asian American nous like that the conception of

888
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 1: it as being restaurant owners is there because it's it's

889
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 1: it's a form of culture that can be sold to

890
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 1: white people. Right, It's, hey, look we're different. We eat

891
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 1: wacky food, but you can eat it too, And ultimately

892
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,720
Speaker 1: we're all in this for capitalism in the patriarchal family,

893
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: like just like you are, don't worry, It's gonna be fine.

894
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 1: And you know that that really depresses me because this

895
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: this is a moment that demands something else. And I

896
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: think that's why kind of like I think that's why

897
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: the sort of mainstream like Asian American reaction to like

898
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: you know, like that there was there was another there

899
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: was another Asian woman like who got stabbed to death

900
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: like two weeks ago, and there was like fucking no

901
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: coverage of it, Like nobody gave a ship. It's just

902
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: gotten to the point where like this happens, like six

903
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: people report on it and then everyone just sort of

904
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: moves onto their life. Yeah, And I think the reason

905
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: why this sort of like stop Asian hate ship has

906
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: gotten to a you know, like it's gotten it gets

907
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: gone through the sign cycle where everyone like had the

908
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: signs up and then they took them down and so

909
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: you know, like and I think the reason why it

910
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 1: was it turned into this sort of like like did

911
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: the organizing turning this like incredibly vapid like put a

912
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: sign in your store like two the hashtag stuff like

913
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: is because of this is is because what like what

914
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: what it means to be sort of Asian American has

915
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: been hollowed out and hauled out and hold out and

916
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: sold and sold and sold for just decades and decades

917
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: and decades and now, you know, like in a time

918
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: and it's actually sort of like you know, when it

919
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 1: when it's really in danger and it's called to action,

920
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,320
Speaker 1: it hasn't been able to do much right. And well, yeah,

921
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: pointing out the film and TV thing is really important

922
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 1: because I mean, so many marginalized communities have this experience.

923
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: But I think China, like Asian culture in particular, I

924
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 1: think it really people if they're ignorant and they just

925
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: see what's depicted on media, they don't see them as

926
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: three dimensional beings, you know what I mean, what they

927
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: have is like a very hollow version of a human

928
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: And so I don't know, it's it kind of upsets

929
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 1: me because I feel like media is the first thing

930
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,760
Speaker 1: people learn things from, whether it's film or TV or whatever.

931
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 1: But yeah, well, and also I think it's I think

932
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: it's part of the reason why, like the way that

933
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: those those depictions sort of obscure class where you know,

934
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 1: because these things, right, like a lot of these families

935
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: are poor, but they're still business owners, right, And that

936
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 1: that's like like if you're who are American as well,

937
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: it's because you're a business and you're like a sort

938
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: of struggling like American entrepreneur. And this obscure is the

939
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: fact that there there is a massive Asian American just

940
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: underclass people who are like delivery drivers or work in

941
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: warehouses or you know, I mean like they're they're there.

942
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: Who could there are groups of people who like come

943
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: to the US from China who you know, like live

944
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,359
Speaker 1: in like basically completely isolated communities in pertect Chinatown where

945
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 1: they're only speaking Chinese and they just sucking. Like there

946
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: are people who have to do a bunch of like

947
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: warehouse ship and then they leave and that's it, right,

948
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: Like and these these people this ship never you like,

949
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: you never actually get any kind of sort of class analysis,

950
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: because the way that media thinks about Asian Americans is

951
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: like there's there's one of they're either one or three things.

952
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: They're a business owner, they're like a rich professionals like

953
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,919
Speaker 1: a doctor or something, or they're like the fucking people

954
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 1: on Blink where they're just like super rich assholes. And

955
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: that that allows I think like a specific kind of

956
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 1: anti Asian politics to work that like Asian people are

957
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 1: seen to sort of like Setubal like four an elite,

958
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: and it's like no, I don't know, like it's it's

959
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: just not you know, it's it's not true and and

960
00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 1: it and it means that when you get like Asian

961
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 1: American political movements, like the sort of stuff antiation hating, right,

962
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: like you have like the guy who founded door Dash, right,

963
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: is like is a nation is like a Chinese American guy, right,

964
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 1: and he's like he used to he's a tech billionaire.

965
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: He used to be like an emany Like you know,

966
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: you would have the stop Asian hate advance, Like this

967
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 1: fucking guy is on their light, is up on the

968
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: stage talking about anti agent hate. And it's like, okay,

969
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: this guy has like brutally and horribly exploited like literally

970
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: millions of Asian Americans. But you know, there's there's there's

971
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,320
Speaker 1: there's no there's never gonna be reckoning with that because

972
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: you know, and he's he's capitalist, like he's achieved the

973
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: capitalist dream or whatever the ship and and I I

974
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 1: mean because because because Asian American contentia has been flattened

975
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 1: in this way, like those people are just completely invisible

976
00:51:56,040 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: and it it sucks and I hate it and yeah, yeah,

977
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 1: I it's just I don't know. There's nothing good. I

978
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,439
Speaker 1: can like anything I can say to make anything better,

979
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:13,640
Speaker 1: but I think it's just I don't know. Maybe we

980
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: can do an episode one day about like film and

981
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: TV and stuff, because I think it really starts there unfortunately,

982
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: like like it's it's silly, but people that don't know

983
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: a Chinese person will see a Chinese person on their

984
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: TV and be like, that's the only Chinese person I've

985
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: ever seen in my life. And I'm gonna make assumptions

986
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: about the whole race now. But one day I'm going

987
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: to do an epid. We're gonna do an episode that's

988
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 1: entirely me shifting on Jackie Chan. People are gonna get

989
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 1: really mad at me. But funk that guy. That's a

990
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 1: hot take. He started his career as a fucking scamp.

991
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: That was literally his first thing was he was a scap.

992
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 1: And he's yeah, he's the fucking homophote piece of shit.

993
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,720
Speaker 1: Fuck him. Uh yeah, done your parable damage for this episode.

994
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Yeah, all right, that will that will

995
00:52:58,040 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: be something we're We're now to the part of the

996
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: episod we are teasing you with subsequent episode. But yeah,

997
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't know. And it's a little bit

998
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: upsetting how these are really important movements are just like

999
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 1: they the plateau and they become like this vapid thing

1000
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: like you're saying, Like, I think that gives people such

1001
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: an easy out of like quote unquote being an ally

1002
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: or supporting because they think they're doing something by like

1003
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: holding up a sign or something without really internalizing or

1004
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: spreading the awareness that is necessary. And uh, I don't know.

1005
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,439
Speaker 1: I I guess the thing I want to end on

1006
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 1: also is me being piste off at a bunch of

1007
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: Asian American kids in the sets. So one of the

1008
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: stories you will hear a lot if you're studying Asian

1009
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 1: American politics, like is the story that like the term

1010
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 1: Asian American was invented by these like activists who actually

1011
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,879
Speaker 1: were like doing a bunch of stuff eight um, these

1012
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: like student act like this radical student activists, and like

1013
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 1: that's true. But the thing you have to understand about

1014
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 1: those people is that all of those people were like

1015
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: like all those people were basically like we're third world ists.

1016
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: And part of the reason this whole politics collapses. Well,

1017
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,359
Speaker 1: a part of the reason, part of what happened was

1018
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: like part of the demands of these students in these

1019
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: sort of like radical student groups, like but you know,

1020
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: their form to sort of like support the sort of

1021
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 1: like black radical student groups into like advocate for themselves.

1022
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: But like one of their big demands was they wanted

1023
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: cultural studies departments in in American universities, and they got them.

1024
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: But you know, okay, so what what what what are

1025
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: those cultural studies like departments? They basically just became these

1026
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: giant traps through radicals where instead of like overthrowing the government,

1027
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 1: you like come do this cushy job in academia, and

1028
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: like all of all of the sort of like old

1029
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,879
Speaker 1: radicals like from that area either like got regular jobs

1030
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: or became like Agrican academics. Right. And the other thing

1031
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 1: that happened with this politics that was the reason why

1032
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 1: it was completely unsustainable was that and this is this

1033
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 1: is this has been a sort of a problem with

1034
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: the Asian American identity. Right. Is that Okay, like what

1035
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 1: the fund is a nation American? Right, It's like anyone

1036
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 1: from like I don't know likes anyone from like the

1037
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: like the edge of the Pacific to like I don't know,

1038
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 1: like how how how far? How far? Like I what's

1039
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: it called? Like how far? How far west? Does that go?

1040
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: The other direction? Like who knows? It's like yeah, like

1041
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: I mean this is like billions and billions and billions

1042
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: of people with completely your related cultures and languages and

1043
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: stuff like that. And the reason they were able to

1044
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 1: do this, right was because they were mirroring their movement

1045
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 1: off of like the Third World right. But the problem

1046
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 1: that they ran into, and this is the problem with

1047
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: all the Third World movements, was that, Okay, so the

1048
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: Third World movement like as a thing was it was

1049
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: based on a bunch of different nationalist movements, right, Like

1050
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 1: it was based on that there was going to be

1051
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: this like alliance between like the sort of like the

1052
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: rising socialis powers in Africa and the rising socialist powers

1053
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: and uh in East Asia, and they were gonna sort

1054
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: of like ally with like the rising sort of like

1055
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 1: you know, like the rising sort of like minorities getting

1056
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: power in the US. But okay, if you look at

1057
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: those nationalisms, right, you have Chinese nationalism, Cambodian nationalism, and

1058
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: Vietnamese nationalism all colliding with each other, and you know,

1059
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: if it turns out like what okay? So what what

1060
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: what happens if your movement is based on sort of

1061
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 1: like the unity of a bunch of nationals movements and

1062
00:56:23,560 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: they go to war with each other? And you know

1063
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 1: what happened was when when when China when Vietnam and

1064
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: Vadas Cambodia in and and Vietnam and Vedas Cambodia and

1065
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: then China invades Vietnam in nine seventy nine. Right, the

1066
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: entire politics is fucked because what what what are you

1067
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: supposed to do? Like what's who's who side you're supposed

1068
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: to take here? Right? Like you can you can do

1069
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: the you know, like if if you're gonna be like

1070
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: a Marxist, like a Marxis Leninist, like the probably the

1071
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 1: correct line to support Vietnam, Right, but that's a mess

1072
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 1: because you know how many simple in Maoists, right and

1073
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: if you but but you know, if you're a Maoist

1074
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: and you're fucking people just invaded Vietnam, like you know,

1075
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 1: what are you supposed to do? Right? And there was

1076
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: there were earlier attentions with this too, where like like

1077
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: China with China was backing like a really shitty fashion

1078
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: in Angola who ended up ended up being backed by

1079
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 1: the US and like South Africa, and that caused a

1080
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: whole bunch of tensions between the sort of Chinese maoists

1081
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 1: and a bunch of the sort of black radical groups

1082
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 1: because they were like, why the funk are you guys

1083
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: backing these people in Angola. But you know, and and

1084
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: and this, this whole thing became a problem because all

1085
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 1: of these nationalisms are competing nationalisms right there. There was

1086
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: never going to be one unified third world. It was

1087
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: always it was always going to end with a bunch

1088
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: of nationalists fighting each other. And when that happens, the

1089
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: Asian like the Asian American movement such as it was

1090
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: just fucking died, and you know, like as a radical movement,

1091
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,959
Speaker 1: it was just over. And so you know, I think

1092
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: I think the lesson that I would take out of

1093
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: this is just that like, do not build, do not

1094
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: build your movement based off of someone else's nationalism, because

1095
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: those people are going to do things because they're nationalists

1096
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 1: that are just fucked right. They're gonna win. They're gonna

1097
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 1: invade Vietnam like Kemp, like the Cambodians are gonna invade Vietnam,

1098
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 1: and then Vietnam is gonna like you know, like are

1099
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: arguably justifiably because they've been getting attacked because they're fighting

1100
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: the Khmer Rouge. But like you know, they're they're these

1101
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: people are all going to go to war with each other,

1102
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 1: right like you're or you know, you're, you're gonna be

1103
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: stuck in the situation where like you're, you're, you're you're

1104
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 1: being forced to two sides between like the DIRG and

1105
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: the and like the Marxist government Somalia because they've they've

1106
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: randomly gone to war with each other. So don't do this.

1107
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: This has been my rants that I wanted all I

1108
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 1: wanted to do about this because yeah, no, I'm glad

1109
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: you did. I'm glad that I was here for it too,

1110
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: because I don't know. It's good to know this stuff

1111
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: and I get to learn by listening to you still

1112
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 1: me um, Yeah, I I appreciate all the research that

1113
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: you did. Thanks. Yeah, and yeah, so I guess this

1114
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: has been It can happen here, yeah, yeah, that's the episode.

1115
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 1: You can find us happen here pod um on Twitter

1116
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: and Instagram. I'm at amc h R three. Um, yeah, yeah,

1117
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: I'm a sure hero six six six on Twitter and

1118
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 1: then on Instagram. Just take out the six six sixes,

1119
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: but maybe I should add them because who cares anyway?

1120
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: Thanks bye. It Could Happen here as a production of

1121
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,439
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

1122
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check

1123
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1124
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources

1125
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 1: for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone

1126
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.