1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: This is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Robert, I've 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: got a burning question for you. All right, I would 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: like to know if you have ever tasted huge food. 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: Huge Food. I'm not sure I know what that is. Well, 7 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: I hope that you're going to say now, because because well, 8 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: it's non existent. Actually that's the first thing. Otherwise I 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: would worry a little bit if you said, yes, it's uh, 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: it's actually a spoof product. And it was supposedly supposed 11 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: to be a soy based food product designed to resemble 12 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: human flesh and taste and texture. And so the website 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: was up for about a year, made two thousand and six, 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: and it had all these great products that you just 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: never could buy. So if you want to, you know, 16 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: if you were really wanting a finger or an arm 17 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: or something but didn't necessarily want to campbalize someone, you 18 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: could in theory. So did they replicate and they replicated 19 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: the taste or the form, the taste and the texture. Yeah, well, 20 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: you know, if you really get logical about it, I'm 21 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: not sure there's anything that weird about it, not compared 22 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: to say, well, okay, you're vegetarian, right, yes, okay, do 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: you ever have like soysage or like a soy dog, 24 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: or you know, any kind of or whatever. Yeah, I 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: have like meat simulated products. We'll see like that seems like, 26 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not unlike that you you don't want 27 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: to actually eat meat, but you're okay with something that. Yeah, 28 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: And yet there's a disconnect because sometimes when I pull 29 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: out a piece of what's supposed to be bacon and 30 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: I look at it and it's a little disconcerting. So 31 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: I'm frying up the bacon, and yet I don't eat bacon, 32 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: and I don't or they want bacon. But I do 33 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: have to say, there is that that bacon taste that 34 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: you can never really replicate. Yeah, well even if you're 35 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: but I guess even if you're frying up some soy bacon, 36 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: it is going to look like bacon and not say, 37 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: like a pig's face. Like you can't get a soy 38 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: pig face, right, Maybe you can. Maybe it's a it's 39 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: going to be a small market market that may actually 40 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: carry that. They do some pretty funky stuff with it. 41 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: So this you know, and in discussing like why is 42 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: this creepy and this not you know, uh with the 43 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: with the HOOFU. I mean that really comes down to 44 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: the basic question about cannibalism in in nature as a whole, 45 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: because it's it's one of those things when you really 46 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: look at it, there's kind of like the animal version 47 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: and then well there's really only the animal version. But yes, 48 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 1: well but but on top of the animal version. Um, 49 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: And this is like, you know, as Kennels relates to 50 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: just any kind of creature you might find might find 51 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: that practices it, and a lot of animals practice it. Um. 52 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: If you layer human culture and human society and our 53 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: complex web of emotions and values on top of that, 54 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 1: it just really complicates the matter and you get into 55 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: this this area where cannibalism is really this I mean, 56 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: it's just you know, it's it's an outrageous thing. It's 57 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: like it it raises outrage from people for us who 58 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: would like to think that we have morals and uh, 59 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 1: social values and we all cooperate with each other, we 60 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: we try not to eat each other humans. Yeah, yeah, 61 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: I found this great. To quote from Tom Sorel from 62 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: the University of Birmingham and uh, he said. Quote in 63 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: intellectual history, cannibals stand for alien and exotic human being, 64 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: specimens of our species who realize its darkest possibilities, usually 65 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: in places far removed from civilization. Cannibalism. Cannibalism both expresses 66 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: natural law and and contravenes it. So right, so there 67 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: that there's the rub, right, yeah, and it happens in 68 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: nature and it's perfectly nut roll there, right, And yet 69 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: we can't help but WinCE a little bit. Yeah, you 70 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: hear that. You know, if you start hearing that, somebody's 71 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: like certain, you know, grinding up corpses, you know, to 72 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: serving the restaurant, people just get outraged. There's a great 73 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: money python skit where it involves like grinding up corpses 74 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: and and and feeding it to people, and it's like 75 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: the they break the fourth wall and like the the 76 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: audience just starts throwing things. You know. It's it's it's 77 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: that outrageous a concept. You want to know where your 78 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: meat pie came from. But it's very like I say, 79 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: it's very widespread in the animal kingdom, and it is 80 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: a major mortality factor in the biology of numerous species. 81 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: So we're gonna sort of walk through the We're not 82 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: really gonna go with pros and cons, but first of those, 83 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: we're gonna look at the case for cannibalism in nature 84 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: and some of the ways that it's practiced, and there 85 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: then we're gonna look at the case against and for 86 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 1: the most part we're gonna avoid the whole question of 87 00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: cannibalism um within the larger human institution. But we do 88 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: have an excellent article on the website by Josh Clark 89 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: about that, so I highly recommend checking that out if 90 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: you want to get more into the you know, the 91 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: serial killer cannibal topics, right or endo cannibalism, all the 92 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: different types of cannibalism that exists. All right, So, um, 93 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: the big thing for me when I when I was 94 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: researching this is it a lot of it really comes 95 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: down to energy, right, because if you're an organism on 96 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: this planet, unless you're a plant that's generating a lot 97 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: of its energy from photo through photosynthus um, and even that, 98 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: you're not not all the energies necessarily coming from the sun. 99 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: But for the rest of us, we're having to consume 100 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: other little bundles of energy to to keep our energy going. 101 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: So we're having to eat other organisms. Now we might 102 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: we might not eat um, you know, we might only 103 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: eat plants, or we might only eat animals, but we're 104 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: having to eat something. So it's this constant. This is 105 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: huge pyramid you know of of predators preying on other 106 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: forms of energy, and even bugs. Let's not discount bugs. 107 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: Some bugs and they like them quite a bit. Well, 108 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: they're supposedly quite good. I've never had one. Have you 109 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: had a bug? No? No, but it isn't I think 110 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: it's a street food Vietnam. Yeah, suppose there was supposedly 111 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: some in Thailand. I didn't get to try it when 112 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: I was there. Yeah, it's supposed to be incredibly nutritious. Yeah, 113 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: I tried if I if I had the chance, But 114 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 1: it's never offered on you know, the local menus. No, 115 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: it's not your in Atlanta where the palmeta bug salads. 116 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. You'll have to start a food truck 117 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: based on that. So, like we said, the it all 118 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: comes down to energy, it comes down to predation, and 119 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: cannibalism is basically a pet predator prey interaction within a species. 120 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: So it's well a member of this species preying on 121 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: a member of another of the same species. So like, 122 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: you know, when you get into discussions of odd, uh, 123 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: did you know humans eat neder nehnderthals and did neahnderthals 124 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: eat humans? That's not really cannibalism. It's kind of creepy, 125 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: but it's still it's it would be two different species 126 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: eating each other or one. You know, that's that's a 127 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: whole separate podcast there, but like me eating you same species. Right, yeah, 128 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: don't worry, but let's hope it doesn't come to that. Right, 129 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,239 Speaker 1: So there are different types of cannibalism, right, So there's 130 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: um something called sybil side. Yes, this is the most 131 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: commonly seen in the sand tiger shark um. And this 132 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: is a situation where the animal has to uteri and 133 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: each one produces a number of eggs, and but each 134 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: each litter yields just two pups, one for each uterus. Okay, 135 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: so there's some competitiveness there. Yeah. These uh, the little 136 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: embryos have embryonic teeth, So you have all these little 137 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: you know, unborn brothers and sisters in there, and it's, uh, 138 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: it's kind of like a it's like each one is 139 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: like a battle royale of you know, who's going to 140 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: be the toughest. So it's slay just kind of you know, 141 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: chopped down on each other. And in the end of it, 142 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: you have one shark pup left standing huh okay, and 143 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: so they're hungry, they've got teeth. Um. It actually reminds 144 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: me of Dwight Shrewt from the Office. Um. I don't 145 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: know if you ever watch I do watch it, I 146 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: don't remember the quote. Yeah, he said that he actually 147 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,520 Speaker 1: absorbed his own twin brother, so he therefore had the 148 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: strength of a man and a baby. Yeah, so I 149 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: guess it would be like the Dwight Shrewts of the 150 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: animal world. Yeah, yeah, you can. You can think of 151 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: this as the Shrewt factor. So so the so these 152 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: two uh santiger sharks end up emerging with the strength 153 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: with it with a very shrewd like veracity to help them, 154 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: you know, ensure their survival. Yeah. Approximately fourteen species of 155 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: sharker thought to practice some form of this cannibalism, but 156 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: the santiger shark is the It's the one that we've 157 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: studied the most and we have the most down on 158 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: m Now, you know, one of the things to keep 159 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: in mind about procreation in the animal kingdom. Is that 160 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: especially sexual reproduction. It's like a huge energy um waste, 161 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: not necessarily waste, but let's say incident investment, huge investment 162 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: because just look at humans for instance, think of all 163 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: the energy that goes into sexual selection, you know, whole products, 164 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: you know, people especially you know, how much time do 165 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,599 Speaker 1: teenagers waste on sexual selection? Enormous amount of time And 166 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: I don't know how they get anything done, and how 167 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: do they study? I know, apparently they don't, but I 168 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: don't know. I guess they do. But anyway, energy UH 169 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: for the sex act itself. Then there's then on the 170 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 1: mother's part, there's the energy to bring the offspring to term, 171 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: the energy to give birth, and then the energy to 172 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: raise the child till I can find for itself. Because 173 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: the genetic mission is basically create another UM, you know, 174 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: another creature, replicate your DNA, replicate the DNA, keep that 175 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: strain of DNA going, and then you know, put this 176 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: new UH product on the market and let it, you know, 177 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: carry on on its own, right, Right, It's all these 178 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: niceties like playing it um you know, mose art in 179 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: the uterus aren't necessarily their focus, right, Just get it 180 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: out there get it going, but in a in a 181 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: way it's like make sure it's like the best, you know, 182 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: the best possible. Um and instead of eating of the 183 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: sharks in the womb, is you know, potentially listening to Mozar, right, 184 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: so um, I also like to think of think of 185 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: this in terms of of like a business, like if 186 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: if how stuff works for to launch like a like 187 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: some sort of separate entity like I don't know, um 188 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: how crabs work, or something like we're gonna do a 189 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: site is just about crabs, and we're like, this is 190 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: gonna be It's gonna be like how stuff works, except 191 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: it's only gonna focus on crabs. It's wood would be 192 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: kind of like the company's offspring, right, so be like 193 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: all crabs all the time, crab fashions, crab recipes, crab science. 194 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: But the but the but the existing business has a 195 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: certain amount of energy already tied out of it. Doo, 196 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: a certain number of employees. Right, So let's say, well, okay, 197 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna have one one employee go out to be 198 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: the editor of this new side, and another to be 199 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: the writer, another to be the marketing guide, another to 200 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: be the you know, the programmer, et cetera. All the 201 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: things that that can make it what it is, and 202 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: it has to in in where it's like forming this 203 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: new entity of itself. Right, So it's this this huge 204 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: energy in h this huge energy investment, and if that 205 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: doesn't work, then one of two things are gonna happen. 206 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: Either all those people are gonna lose their jobs or 207 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: they're going to be absorbed back into the parent company, 208 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,199 Speaker 1: or at least that's my my understands, they're gonna be Yeah, 209 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: they're gonna be shrewded. So that leads us to another 210 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: type of cannibalism that's pretty calm, really very common, and 211 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: that's the eating of one's own young, which again is 212 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: one of these kind of like terrifying type of things. 213 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: There's the classic image, is it Chronus the god, Yeah, 214 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: eating his own son? I think so yeah, And then 215 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: like then I'm I'm a little shaky in this particular 216 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: story from mythology, but there's a famous painting of it, 217 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: and there's I think Zeus like I was able to 218 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: like somebody snug SEUs away by putting a rock in 219 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: there so that so that he would eat the rock 220 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: instead of baby Zeus. Of course, Yeah, Zeus was all 221 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: about killing the young, his young. Yeah, so um so anyway, 222 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: it's it's another sort of terrifying idea. You know that 223 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: the oh my goodness, the mother is the lifebringer and 224 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: then you know, and if you've ever had hamsters or 225 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: or any other you know, kind of animal like that 226 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: that ends up killing it's young and or eating them, 227 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: it can be kind of a terrifying moment. But it 228 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense from an energy standpoint, right, 229 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: from a survival basic Yeah. There, you know, there's energy 230 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: has been expended to create these uh these new creatures 231 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: and their calories wrapped up in them, so you bring 232 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: them back into the fold, right right, Okay, well I'm 233 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: actually thinking too. Um sort of related to that, there's 234 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: the masked booby, which is a bur Yes, I knew it. 235 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: I knew that. I couldn't just say masked booby. Yeah 236 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: you've got you can run these by me and uh yeah, 237 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: I know, I've got to give you a hint therapy. 238 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 1: But um, okay, So getting that aside, the masked booby 239 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: is actual way a bird and it's indigenous to the 240 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: Galopico silence and uh that's a case where the parents 241 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: it's a case of stib eating. Right there, there are 242 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: two siblings. Um, but that's a case where the parents 243 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: actually step in and they encourage them to kill one 244 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: of the other off. Yeah, and they actually that the 245 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: odds are stacked, um in favor of their eldest, so 246 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: they it's sort of like a kid to getting them 247 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: into a match and seeing like a chicken fight and 248 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: seeing who's going to come out best. And the reason 249 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: for that is the very same, which is, you know, 250 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: you want to put all your effort into the sibling 251 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: that's going to survive and has the best chance of 252 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: carrying on. It's I mean, it sounds harsh, but it 253 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: comes back to that. So anybody out there that is 254 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: in kind of a blue family type situation where they 255 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: feel like their mom and or dad are stirring competition, uh, 256 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: just be glad that they're not encouraging you to kill 257 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: and eat each other. Be glad that you're not. I'm 258 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: masked Bob, Yes, um. But just to give you an 259 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: idea of how many different animals engage in this, and 260 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: it's also uh you also see uh. For instance, sharks 261 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: will practice um uh eating. They'll end up eating eggs 262 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: that haven't been fertilized um, and sometimes the eggs will 263 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: be eating that have been fertilized. But you'll see you'll 264 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: see this form of catabalism in protozoa, slime, molds, sea slugs, insects, spiders, fish, reptiles. 265 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: They they've observed it in dinosaur fossils, um, bats, seals, 266 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: sea lions, otters, polar bears, even otters. Yes, they're cute. 267 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: Imagine one, you know, cannibalizing another. It's we're eating it's young. 268 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: It happens. It never shows up in the cute pictures. 269 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: But tigers, chimpanzees, uh, you know, amphibians, at least a 270 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: hundred species of mammals and all, and of course hamsters, 271 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: well yeah, they're most known for it. Don't tap on 272 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: the glass, which leads us to the some of the reasons. Um, 273 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: you know, why would a mother hamster suddenly decide that 274 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: she needs to slay all her offspring and eat some 275 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: of them. I don't know. Maybe she had way too 276 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: many and that's too much energy to expend on abroad. 277 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: That big Yeah, it's kind of like if you you know, 278 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: to use the sort of clunky business analogy from earlier, 279 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: it's like if you suddenly created this enormous side project 280 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: with way too many employees. You're like, WHOA, this is 281 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: going to fail. This doesn't make it makes sense. It's 282 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: not gonna bring in enough money on its own to 283 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: support that. So we gotta we gotta bring some, if 284 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: not all, of these employees back into the fold. Yeah. Yeah, 285 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: and some of them too if they're if they're born 286 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: with um A disease or they're not quite up to 287 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: par Isn't that another reason to sort of call down 288 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: the broad is to take out the ones that are 289 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: the weakest and and use them for energy for everybody 290 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: else you have. Like a female rattlesnakes, for instance, will 291 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: consume on average about of their postpartum mass um. Mostly 292 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: these are going to be still born or just non 293 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: viable offspring. So again it's like they have all these offspring. 294 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: It's all about like, let's keep the species going, let's 295 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: keep the DNA going. You're gonna want to invest in 296 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: the ones that are the best candidates. I mean, you know, 297 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: it's disgusting to us, but it really is practical if 298 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: you think about it. Yeah, if you take the anthropomorphic 299 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: ness out of it. Yeah, it's like, you know, it's 300 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: the basic it's the basic mission, the genetic mission, and 301 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: the the the energy logic tied to it, and you 302 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: have you strip away all the layers that human cultures 303 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: put on top of it. Then yeah, it's it makes 304 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: perfect sense, you know, just as a as a side 305 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: observation or question. I was thinking about this, and I 306 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: was thinking about mammals who eat their placentas after birth, 307 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if they ever cannibalize they're young, if 308 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: maybe carry away well no, I'm wondering if maybe the 309 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: eating the placenta actually um serves the need of eating 310 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: some sort of protein and getting some energy source back, 311 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: and and instead of eating their young they eat their 312 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: pa I think would would make perfect sense. I don't know, 313 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: I have that's a question. If anybody knows the answer 314 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: to that that I would love to know. Um. Another 315 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: great example of this comes in invasive cane toads in Australia, 316 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: and uh, these are just some These are some some 317 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: crazy animals because you'll have a small and medium size 318 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 1: but not large cane toes and they'll wave a long 319 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: middle toe off their hind butt up and down in 320 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: the water and they're doing this uh to to to 321 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: catch other toads, and then the cane toe larva will 322 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: actively seek out toad eggs of the same species to eat. 323 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: So there's just like a lot of cannibals and going 324 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: on in cane toes in fact um. And again they're 325 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: invasive and they're a huge problem in Australia, and they 326 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: they found a two thousand tents study found that this 327 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: was actually uh encouraging them to spread, because a mother 328 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: toad would end up um and wanting to lay her 329 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: eggs in a virgin um pond or or a little 330 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: stream or whatever just to encourage just just to protect 331 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: it from other cane toes. Yeah, so it's like, you know, 332 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: you're it just ends up, you know, oh, we've got 333 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: to find new water, new water to uh for these 334 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: eggs to developments so they're not eaten by all the 335 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: other cane toes. But they think that that they might 336 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 1: be able to to draw the chemical that the eggs shed, 337 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,479 Speaker 1: that that that attracts the other cane todes and use 338 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: that as some sort of a bait, like a pheromone 339 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: or something, yeah, similar to that. I just can't get 340 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: over the image of like all these toes pointing out 341 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: in the water like synchronized swimmers. Sure that's happening. This 342 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: presentation is brought to you by Intel Sponsors of Tomorrow. See, 343 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: we could keep going and just listing all sorts of 344 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: weird and growth tesque examples of mothers eating their own young, 345 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 1: but we should probably move on it and into another 346 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: fascinating area of cannibalism. Uh, and definitely a sexier area 347 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: of cannibalism. Sexual cannibalism. Oh yeah, which sounds like a great, 348 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: great name for a band if it is not used already. 349 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: To drawback to a to an example that we brought 350 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,719 Speaker 1: up in a previous podcast or one about Ladies Night 351 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: on Planet Earth about the role that the male has 352 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: in any given species. We mentioned the the brown and tecanus, 353 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: which is also known as mclahy's marsupial mouse. And this 354 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: is the male that mates for twelve hours at a 355 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: time and eventually he humps himself to death. Uh, and 356 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: then he's you know, his mouth, he's not another mouth 357 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,880 Speaker 1: to feed through the winter like. The species can then 358 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: just focus on the mother raising the young. All the 359 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: men are dead, uh, you know until next season. Yeah. 360 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: I think maybe I said that he was that sort 361 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: of relegated to like being the pool boy for the female. 362 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: So that being the case, sexual cannibalism occurs when the 363 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: female eats her mate dearing or immediately after the sex act, 364 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: which happens a lot. Yeah, apparently. And again it's like, 365 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: if you look at the mail as merely a mutation 366 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: necessary for a sexual reproduction, he doesn't necessarily have a 367 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: lot of use after that that sexual encounter. So again 368 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: that's that's energy that's just wasted. So it reminds me 369 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: of like when a company brings on contract workers for 370 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: a project that has a like a short term goal. 371 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: They're like, we need to get this project done, but 372 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: we don't want to like hire six guys and then 373 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: have to pay them or and gals and have to 374 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: pay them benefits, etcetera. So let's just bring them on 375 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: his contract workers and then in six months we're done. 376 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like the mail. In these cases, 377 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: it's a contract worker, and at the when they're not 378 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: needed anymore, they're like go, and they're they're submitting themselves 379 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: to this process willingly because they want to make sure 380 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: that their offspring survive. Is that the idea behind this 381 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 1: with the mating. Yeah, that they would say, okay, yeah, 382 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: I will meet with you, knowing that you're going to say, 383 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: you're praying mantis. You're going to rip my head off 384 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: and then consume me as I'm meeting you. Well, it's interesting. 385 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: I was reading some stuff about this, and uh, most 386 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: in most cases, the male, I mean, the male is 387 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: gonna mate. That's uh, I'm all right, ladies, that the 388 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: male is that I mean, that's the male's mission. So 389 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: he's he's going to engage in that. But you'll also see, 390 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: like with praying manaces, the males will try and survive, uh, 391 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: within you know, their limited ability to do so. Uh. 392 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: And it's also there's kind of it's kind of exaggerated 393 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: in most praying manasis. I understand because a lot of 394 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: the the early studies into this you had females in 395 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: captivity who had not eaten as much as they want to. 396 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: They were voracious, yeah they were. Yeah, And so here's 397 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: this um, this mantis, and you know, there he's done 398 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: his part or is doing his part, and he can 399 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: continue doing his part generally pretty well even with his 400 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,959 Speaker 1: head heat no off. So they just go for it. 401 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: They say that typically uh, praying manus. Uh, cannibalistic mating 402 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: process only occurs five of the time and uh, and 403 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: it occurs most often if the female is hungry. Yeah, 404 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: and so most most species are only going to cannibalize 405 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: regularly in captivity. But there's one species, uh, the mantis 406 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: religiosa um, which is which is really into and it's 407 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: necessary that the head be removed for the mating process 408 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: to to to take effect properly. So and in these cases, 409 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: the female typically eats a third of her partners and 410 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: that she eats even more in the lab if the 411 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: male can't escape. But that's the thing. The male will 412 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: try and escape. Uh, it's just you know, a third 413 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: of the time he's uh, he doesn't have a chance. Yeah, 414 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 1: I think it was the mantisys I was reading about that. Uh. 415 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: There's some suggestion that they had evolved to sort of 416 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: almost create a belt like effect in their abdomen regions 417 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: so that they were drawing in all of their major 418 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: organs as tightly inward as possible so that the things 419 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,959 Speaker 1: wouldn't get them very easily. So they can keep processes 420 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: going at least two completely Yeah, yeah, exactly, so they 421 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: can they can mate longer without dying. But it's interesting. Um. 422 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: I was actually thinking about this to Harvard biologists Stephen 423 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: Jay Gould. He had thought that that it wasn't as 424 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: widespread as it actually we know it is now. And 425 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: his idea was that, are you saying sexual cannibalism or 426 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: cannibalism in general? Sexual cannibal cannibalism. I think it was. 427 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: It must have been very troubling to him because he 428 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: sort of came up with all these different ideas about it, 429 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: but the main crux of it was that maybe it 430 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: wasn't as widespread as it actually is, and that the 431 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: female had just mistaken her mate as prey, which I 432 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: thought was really funny because I mean, moments before the 433 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: pray Nantis was you know, filling his wings and showing 434 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: his abs a six pack, and you know, then began 435 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: mating with her, and the idea that she just sort 436 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: of forgot what she was doing and turned around and 437 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: went wow, wow. Maybe maybe he just said he had 438 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: like a really horrible, you know girlfriend at some point 439 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: and he was like like, wow, it's like somebody that 440 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: just like snaps at the you know, and so he's 441 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: like all women must be like this regardless of species. 442 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: It's possible. There's just there's definitely some overreaching there. Now 443 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: there's one. You'll you'll find a sexual cannibalism in a 444 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: number of arachnids and insects, but it's particularly interesting in 445 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 1: the red back spider. Yeah, this is a relative of 446 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: the black widow. And the males, first of all, are 447 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: really tiny. Like it's one of these cases where where 448 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: the whole are you know, the whole case for males 449 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: is just being a you know, a mutation necessary appropriation 450 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: and not being the species itself. Really opposite, I mean, really, 451 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: it's really obvious in this particular species because the male 452 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: is just tiny, looks like an entirely different animal in 453 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: the in the the female is enormous, and the male 454 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: is a willing participant in the sexual cannibalism. Alright, So 455 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: during copulation, this u the little male guy, he'll position 456 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: himself above the female's jaws, all right, and uh and 457 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: uh and and you know, basically like shove himself into 458 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: her jaws so that she gets to eat him. Uh 459 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: and uh. And they believe that it's uh, it's favored 460 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: in sexual selection because the sexual the cannibalized spiders received 461 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: two different advantages. First of all, cannibalized males copulate longer 462 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: and fertilize more eggs than those that survive. And then 463 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: also the females were more likely to reject subsequent suitors 464 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: if they consumed mate. So this makes sense. I think 465 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: they were talking about it as a sort of like 466 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: a sperm plug. Yeah, yeah, I mean, not to get 467 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: racy about it or anything, but basically that you know, 468 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: they had made their deposit in that you know, any 469 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: other males after that wouldn't necessarily be successful, right Yeah. 470 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: And it's and it's interesting because like we're looking at 471 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: these other cases of sexual cannibalism and the male really 472 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily have any there's no argument for the male 473 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 1: sticking around and being eaten for the you know, the 474 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: advancement of the species and the and him passing on 475 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: his d n A. But this is a case where 476 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: there's a definite advantage if he gives himself up to 477 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: you know, to the appetite of his mate. Yeah. And 478 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: I thought something that um was really dramatic that I 479 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: read is that they want account so that they actually 480 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: somersault onto the things, which is like take me, please 481 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: eat me. And then the other thing that I read 482 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: is that during the mating process that they pluck the 483 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: strings on the female's web for like eight hours. And 484 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: I know, and I thought that is kind of sweet. 485 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: But then I kind of thought, well maybe she was 486 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: like that is driving me crazy. I'm gonna eat you. 487 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: These these these guys are so nice. And then the 488 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: lady spiders are so hard on him. It's just a 489 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: it's just a rough life. And then there's the orb 490 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: weight weaving spider or weaving um in which the male 491 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: sexual organ gets stuck in the female. And this is 492 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: by design. Again, it's the same idea of this sort 493 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,959 Speaker 1: of a sperm plug. So although she can polish him 494 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: off and you know, snack on him, she's stuck with him, 495 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: so to speak, and that just make sure that she 496 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: can't mate with someone else afterwards. So there's definite design 497 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: behind this. I don't think that they're just being masochistic here. Yeah, 498 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: it's not the situation where the insect world is just 499 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: like you know, evil or anything. It all makes makes 500 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: sense the grand scheme of things now. Um, moving away 501 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: from from sexual cannibalism, you will also find plenty of 502 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: animals that just seem to be kind of jerks, like 503 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: kind of an any social jerks, and if they encounter anything, 504 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: they're probably you know, they're either going to run from 505 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: it or try and kill it. And if it's one 506 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 1: of their own, they're probably going to try and either 507 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 1: mate with it or kill it, or mate with it 508 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: and kill it. So um the score. Like various scorpions 509 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: are great examples of it. Like scorpions tend to live 510 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: very solitary lives, and if they encounter another scorpion of 511 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: the same variety, then there's a very good chance that 512 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: they'll that one will eat the other one. And if 513 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: they're opposite sex and uh you know, and it's uh 514 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: you know, and they see it as a good time 515 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: to mate, then they may mate and then one will 516 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: eat the other. Yeah. Uh. The Komodo dragon is of course, 517 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: another great example of of just being a cannibal just 518 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: for the heck of it, because the the young, uh, 519 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 1: the komodo dragon young are just considered prey, um you know, 520 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: up until they're certain size, primarily raised for prey one 521 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: or not primarily raised for prey. But they're they're just 522 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: the parents have no role in rearing them after they've 523 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,959 Speaker 1: been born, so they just have to climb the trees 524 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: to escape, to escape their parents otherose, some parents will 525 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: eat them. They're like, oh, look at those guys, they 526 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: look tasty. I'm hungry. Let's do this. Interestingly enough, the 527 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: one thing they can do to besides hiding in the 528 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: treetops is that they smear themselves an excrement. Then then 529 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: that will keep the the their parents from potentially eating them. 530 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: That does actually work too. Yeah, okay, um come out 531 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,719 Speaker 1: with dragons too. I remember something with Sharon Stone's husband 532 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: some years back. Oh, I forgot about that, didn't Didn't 533 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: they dine on her husband's foot? I think so. Yeah. 534 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: I think they went like a behind the scenes or 535 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: something and he went to go pett it. Yeah. It 536 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: just seems like a bad idea. Yeah, I understand it 537 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: really scarred him. He's been uh I mean emotionally to 538 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: the point where he always keeps himself smeared in Komoto experiment, 539 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: especially on vacation. I guess that's why their relationship didn't work. Yeah. 540 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: And of course you'll find plenty of cases where um 541 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: animals of a various form will be more than willing 542 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,959 Speaker 1: to eat their own dead after they've been killed by 543 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: another you know species. You know, alligator, crocodile comes across 544 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: the dead, um, you know, creature of the same species. 545 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: It's food, they'll eat it. Number of gavengers, vultures, et cetera. 546 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: They see the food, they'll eat it. And even you 547 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: know humans, UM. Throughout throughout history, you have a situations 548 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: where humans have eaten their own dead in cases of 549 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: survival cannibalism. UM. Some of those cases are a little controversial, 550 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: like I've I've read cases for and against the the 551 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: Donner Party cannibalism thing actually happening, right because there were 552 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: no actual witnesses. Yeah, but then you also have the 553 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: case of the soccer team and Alive UM, and the 554 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: then the actual events that that movie and book were 555 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: based on, where you know, they're they're in a horrible situation. 556 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: The the these they are these dead bodies, and really, 557 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: on a very logical level, those bodies are energy and 558 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: you're in a situation where it's life or death, You're 559 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: going to consume that energy, right, And I think that's 560 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: the important thing to think about, is that it really 561 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: is an extreme conditions right in with humans as it 562 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: has happened. And in nature, I mean, food is scared, um, 563 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: but you know you can always look over at someone 564 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: and say, hmm, it would be a good protein source. Yeah, 565 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: And in nature it tends to be a lot. It's 566 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: a lot more life and death obviously, especially these cases 567 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: we're looking at in the ocean, where where competition is tremendous. 568 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,479 Speaker 1: And you know, I think a lot of our our 569 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: fascination with cannibalism is that it is we we largely 570 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: a lot of us anyway, live in a time where 571 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: it's really hard to imagine such a desperate situation, and 572 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: it's and that would necessitate this kind of return to 573 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: our primal roots and our basic programming. Yeah, actually, wasn't it. 574 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: Ted Turner, who not too long ago warned everybody that 575 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: we become cannibalists if if we didn't address the global 576 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: warming situations. That Yeah, yeah, there was. I mean, of 577 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: course it drew outrage, but it was certainly a way 578 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: to get people to pay attention to the problem. Oh yeah, 579 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: I actually, um, yeah, I actually heard that they the 580 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: Ted's Montana grills. They actually had these these statues of 581 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: people that they were going to start rolling out in 582 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: place of the buffalo. You have that cannibalism things because 583 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, Ted's the savvy businesses. So cannibalism 584 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: becomes a new thing, then Ted's montana grill is gonna 585 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: pick up on it. Of course that's a brilliant idea. 586 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: But what about primates. I mean, that's to me, primates 587 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: and cannibalism is um, that's one of those things I 588 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: can't help but anthropomorphisize because I think that we look 589 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: at them and see so much of ourselves in them, 590 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: and they do cannibalize one another from time to time. 591 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: It's um. Especially um with primates, you see some very 592 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: disturbing acts, you know, and and they're more disturbing because 593 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: they resemble us more. And um, you know, you'll see 594 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: you know, see you'll see chimpanzees, even gorillas and orangutans. 595 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: There are cases where they're you know, suspected of eating 596 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: their own young. Um. You know, and we've seen plenty 597 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: of cases of where chimpanzees have have have demonstrated their 598 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: capacity for quote unquote cruelty towards other chimpanzees. But will 599 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: they I know that sometimes when they're fighting that they'll 600 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: kill each other. But when they're fighting them, don't necessarily 601 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: eat the body afterward, is that right? Right? Or yeah, 602 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: not necessarily will they eat it? So it's it's more, um, 603 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: I guess if they come along a deceased chimpanzee or 604 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: other type of ape and they actually just eat it. Yeah. 605 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: In chimpanzees, typically the males will kill and eat the 606 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: infant of another female, usually in their own group, but 607 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: occasionally in another. And when chimps kill adults from other 608 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: groups in a fight, they don't eat they okay, And 609 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: I remember this too, that they might eat the infant 610 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: to um force the chimpanzee into estrus so that they 611 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: can go ahead and propagate again. Is that right? So 612 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,239 Speaker 1: the infant may not have been their infant, but they 613 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: want to go ahead and mate and get the process 614 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: rolling right. Um. Now, it's uh, it's interesting when you 615 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: start looking at especially at at primates eating one another 616 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: in different cases, you know, throughout history, and that they're 617 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: confidantly studies arguing for and against the um. You know 618 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: just how much cannibalism was going on with prehistory, with 619 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: you know, prehistoric humans. But anthropologist William R. N's suggest 620 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: it's simply bad strategy as far as evolution goes, though, 621 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: like since the under evolutionary theory, we're fuel fueled by 622 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: that you know, innate desire to see our gene survived, 623 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: you know, eating another one of your you know, your 624 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: tribe and your species. That doesn't really make sense, you know, 625 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: it's just going it's working against our our basic programming. 626 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: And uh and and another interesting thing to keep in 627 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: mind is, uh you know, you may think, well, why 628 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 1: don't humans just raise you know, why why don't humans 629 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: raise humans for food? Right? Or or how how come 630 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 1: you don't have you know, cases where um cannibalism becomes 631 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,759 Speaker 1: a stapable staple of any species diet um. Though, it 632 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 1: is worth pointing out that cannibalism can play a huge 633 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: role in the diet. I think I'm gonna go back 634 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: to the scorpions here for a second. There's a nineteen 635 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,720 Speaker 1: eight study of desert scorpions and they found that cannibals 636 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: and provided only the fourth most common meal for a scorpion. 637 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: But in but as far as body mask goes, it 638 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: was the number one, representing more than of its total 639 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: food intake. Okay, so so yeah, so in in the 640 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,240 Speaker 1: case of the scorpion, yes, cannibalism can provide a large 641 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: part of its diet. But in humans you see a 642 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: different situation. Yeah, and humans nature does not necessarily like 643 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: for us to practice cannibalism. And I think that you 644 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: can see that pretty well illustrated in the four Tribe, 645 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: is that right with the carew Yes, Curu is a 646 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: it's a rare breed of disorder caused by what are 647 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: called prions, and these are abnormal proteins which induce irregular 648 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: protein folding in brain cells, and this leads to flawed 649 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: brain tissue which results in progressive, incurable brain damage. The 650 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,839 Speaker 1: word itself, curu means laughing disease in its name because 651 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: the scientists observed fits of hysterical laughing in those affected. 652 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: So it's pretty uh, pretty traumatic stuff. Um. And so 653 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: this is this came on because the tribe was basically 654 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,760 Speaker 1: practicing endocannibalism right with the funeral rights. They were consuming 655 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 1: the body, which you know isn't because they were looking 656 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: for a source of protein, but because they there was 657 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: a way to respect the deceased, to literally absorb them, right. 658 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: And it's it's interesting this is a case where if 659 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: you if you start thinking about cannibalism in a very 660 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: logical you know, energy sort of uh, you know a thing. 661 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: Then eating one's ancestors does kind of make it makes sense. 662 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 1: It's like a way to honor them. It's like I'm 663 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,759 Speaker 1: inviting their energy back into me. And uh and that's 664 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: that's pretty much how would be great? Yes, symbolically it's great. Um, 665 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 1: And on a basic energy level, it's it's not bad either. 666 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: But the thing is, it's kind of it really opens 667 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 1: the door for the passage of disease. Right, And so 668 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: this is sort of like the mad cow equivalent, is 669 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: that right? Yes? Yeah, mad cow is a similar disorder 670 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: as is I'm going to just take a shot at this, 671 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: uh crewtive fed as Jacob's disease felt Yeah, that sounds good, 672 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: I did, uh. And this is a human variant of 673 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: bad cow disease. And they basically, like with the four A, 674 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: they were basically able to to to wipe out the 675 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: disease by simply getting them to stop practicing this communal cannibalism, 676 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,439 Speaker 1: right like literally overnight. Yeah, they got them to to 677 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: eradicate this from tried. Yeah. Basically it's like, hey, guys, 678 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,720 Speaker 1: you know, when you're your family members go stark, raving 679 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: mad and are laughing at nothing and then die. Well, 680 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,919 Speaker 1: that comes from the cannibalism, so let's cut that out. 681 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: What they're like, Well, you know, we weren't too, We 682 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: weren't that crazy about the cannibalism. We can we can 683 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,919 Speaker 1: set that aside. Well, I guess it's also in Nate. 684 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,760 Speaker 1: You're a little bit of a concern for primates too, 685 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: because they sometimes will consume a body as a group, 686 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 1: spreading potentially a disease, something like hepatitis um. And I 687 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: did want to add a side note about Bnobo's um, 688 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: which is an ape, and uh, they're sometimes called the 689 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: hippie ape because they um are fun loving and they 690 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 1: love to mate without discretion. It's like the Key parties 691 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: in the seventies. They are the venobo along with the 692 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: humans and the dolphins, only animals that actually enjoy sex. Right, Yeah, 693 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: so um, hence called the hippie ape. I don't know, Um, 694 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: do hippie apes enjoy sex one other? I don't know, 695 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: but uh, something that was pretty disconcerting is that they 696 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: were observed pretty recently in the wild to have consumed 697 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 1: one of their own. And again, this is the anthropomorphic 698 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:57,879 Speaker 1: thing where we look at them when we sell. But 699 00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: they're just peace loving and they just love to have 700 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,280 Speaker 1: sex with each other. Why are they eating each other? Um? 701 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: But they would be a good example of primates um 702 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 1: taking the body and eating it, and they actually ate 703 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: that body for more than seven hours, um, which is 704 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: a lot longer than they would take on any other body. 705 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: And some of the people in the group or the individuals, 706 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: I guess you would say, people, we're actually playing with 707 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: the food. So um, it's a it's an interesting side 708 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: note in that, uh, it's an odd occurrence for Bonobo's 709 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: to be doing that and in the way that they did. 710 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: And of course you could extrapolate that it was some 711 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: sort of uh funeral, right, but then that wouldn't really 712 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: be correct because if we just don't know what they 713 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: were doing. But it's also a good example of how 714 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: that disease could be transmitted through the group. Now, and 715 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,240 Speaker 1: it's easy to to fall into the trap of saying, well, 716 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: then this is a great case of where you know, 717 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: you know, nature of whore's cannibalism and you know cannibalism 718 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,279 Speaker 1: of this nature of this you know, community communal cannibalism 719 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: is just poison um and and you know, maybe maybe 720 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: you know, you could still make that case. But I 721 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: was looking at a two thousand and six University of 722 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: Virginia study and they found that cannibalism UH is actually 723 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:17,760 Speaker 1: only documented as the predominant transmission mode of a disease 724 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: in very few species. Um yeah, even even through you know, 725 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: specific instances of cannibalistic transmission UM that have been noted 726 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: um Like, basically it The only two cases they found 727 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: were the prion transmission in humans that we mentioned earlier 728 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 1: and a a kind of protozoa based illness in lizards. 729 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: And if do you think this is because most cannibalism 730 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,760 Speaker 1: is one on one as opposed to a group situation 731 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 1: like that, the group cannibalism is more an outlier. Um yeah, 732 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,879 Speaker 1: well yeah, And also I think it's it also comes 733 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: down to like cannibalism, like, you know, a disease is 734 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: gonna needs to spread. It's got the same genetic mission 735 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: as as as any organism, so it needs it needs 736 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 1: a road it can count on. Right, So the the 737 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: idea of some sort of disease depending exclusively on cannibalism, 738 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,360 Speaker 1: it it largely doesn't make sense. It's just not not 739 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: an economic way of going about it. So like so, um, 740 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 1: you know, for instance, in the study, in other cases 741 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: of cannibalistic disease transmission, uh, and there were others alternate 742 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: disease transmission modes existed. Um. So it's like the you know, 743 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: hepatitis or something hapitize isn't depending exclusively on group cannibalism 744 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: to spread. But if that door's open, it'll gladly, gladly 745 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: take it. Not to personify the illness too much, So 746 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: I guess that the talking about not trying to anthropomorphosize. Ultimately, 747 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,600 Speaker 1: you can't get back around to this question. Aren't we 748 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,439 Speaker 1: sort of all cannibals on some level or another? Yeah? 749 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,360 Speaker 1: I mean you know you look at things like, um, 750 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, anything from a blood transfusion to you know, 751 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,399 Speaker 1: organ transplant. I mean it's it again kind of comes 752 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: down to, uh, the the energy uh situation. It's like 753 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: we're we're taking energy out and storing it. We're harvesting 754 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: energy that it can that is otherwise going to be 755 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: wasted and bringing it back into ourselves. Um. There are 756 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: a few interesting cases in the in the traditional Chinese 757 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,880 Speaker 1: medicine where you have what they call tibo. Let's t 758 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: A I b A. Oh, nothing to do with the 759 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: martial arts exercise, nothing to do with that. But but 760 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 1: this is a particular medicine that involves something UH also 761 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,239 Speaker 1: referred to as a bortist because it's uh it's harvested 762 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: from from fetuses. Um. And this is according to UH 763 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: Mary Roach in her book Stiff, She goes into this 764 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 1: a little and explores this whole chapter on cannibalism UH 765 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: in the use of materials from corpses in medicine in 766 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 1: that book. So highly recommend checking that out. Yeah, and 767 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: there's regenerative medicine to basically taking tissue to grow new tissue, right, yeah, 768 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: so I don't know chew on that. I suppose yes, indeed, 769 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: so hey, if you want to uh to learn more 770 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: about this again, check out Josh Clark's article how Cannibalism Works. 771 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: It's great. It's a multi page feast and you'll want 772 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 1: to eat up every page of it and uh it. 773 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,360 Speaker 1: Come check us out on Twitter and Facebook where you 774 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,360 Speaker 1: can find us as Blow the Mind and inde And 775 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:10,919 Speaker 1: indeed I encourage if you're a fan of the show, 776 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,720 Speaker 1: check out that Facebook page and click the like button. 777 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: UH you'll make us very happy. Yeah, that would be great. 778 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,360 Speaker 1: And if you've got thoughts on cannibalism, you can also 779 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,760 Speaker 1: email us at blow the Mind at how stuff works 780 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:28,360 Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, 781 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 1: visit how stuff works dot com. To learn more about 782 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 1: the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the upper 783 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 1: right corner of our home page. The how stuff Works 784 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 1: iPhone app has a ride. Download it today on iTunes.