Speaker 1: If I find him and I don't find the others,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be happy. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: be complete.
Speaker 2: From Futuro media and PRX, It's Latino USA. I'm Maria
Speaker 2: no Josa Today activist Lucia Dsinoo. She's a mother who
Speaker 2: became a leader in the fight to search and find
Speaker 2: that disappeared in Mexico. Lucia Dshinao is a former teacher.
Speaker 2: She lived a quiet and pretty much happy life in
Speaker 2: the seaside state of Vera Cruz in southern Mexico, but
Speaker 2: then in twenty thirteen, her world was turned upside down.
Speaker 2: Overnight that year, her twenty nine year old son, Luis Guillermo,
Speaker 2: a popular DJ, didn't return home. He had been kidnapped.
Speaker 1: I just collas.
Speaker 3: It was horrible because it's like this feeling, this complete
Speaker 3: realization that he's missing.
Speaker 2: And so given the inaction of the Mexican authorities, Lucy
Speaker 2: decided she had to do something that would be the
Speaker 2: beginning of her tireless search for her son, a quest
Speaker 2: that is now over ten years old.
Speaker 1: If my son, Amia, how can I say I give up?
Speaker 2: As drug related violence grew in Veracruz and the rest
Speaker 2: of Mexico, kidnappings became more and more frequent. In twenty thirteen,
Speaker 2: the year Luis Gilletmo went missing, six hundred people disappeared
Speaker 2: in the state of Veracruz and close to eighteen thousand
Speaker 2: disappeared in all of Mexico. Soon, Lucy would meet other
Speaker 2: mothers just like her. They considered themselves fighters looking for
Speaker 2: their disappeared children. Amid their shared suffering, they formed a group.
Speaker 2: They called it Solesito, which means a little sun in Spanish.
Speaker 1: When you're looking for something or for somebody, you need
Speaker 1: a lot of light. So I said, well, so the
Speaker 1: sun sun is the symbol of light.
Speaker 2: What happened next seems pretty much impossible to believe, but
Speaker 2: it's true. These mothers started to dig, literally digging, doing
Speaker 2: the jobs of archaeologists and forensics in their search for
Speaker 2: their children. In twenty sixteen, they discovered what turned out
Speaker 2: to be one of the biggest mass graves in all
Speaker 2: of Latin America, Golinas Re Santa Fe, located in the
Speaker 2: state of Veracruz. Over the next few years, Solesito became
Speaker 2: an inspiration to others outside of Meca families also looking
Speaker 2: for their missing loved ones. In this episode, Lucy tells
Speaker 2: us about her continuous efforts to find her son and
Speaker 2: how she's built a community of mothers mothers of disappeared children.
Speaker 2: Here's our conversation, Lucy, welcome to Latino, USA. It's an
Speaker 2: honor to have you on our show.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. It's a very good opportunity for
Speaker 1: me to get the word out of the missing cases
Speaker 1: in Mexico.
Speaker 2: Lucy, let's go back to before you became an activist,
Speaker 2: because you had another life you're living in back Gruz.
Speaker 2: Just kind of paint the picture. What was your daily
Speaker 2: life like.
Speaker 1: I had begun to live quiet life, traveling with my
Speaker 1: husband because he's a sea captain, so he has to
Speaker 1: travel very much. And I accompanied him because my kids
Speaker 1: were already growed ups. So I had the opportunity to
Speaker 1: get around travel visit different places in Indonesia, Singapore. So
Speaker 1: life was pretty nice for me because I was already
Speaker 1: feeling very free. I was traveling back and forth and
Speaker 1: this ting the kids very frequently too. You know, I
Speaker 1: never neglected them, never ever, So I was a mom
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 2: So then, and I know this is hard, Lucy, and
Speaker 2: I know that you've done this before, but it's not
Speaker 2: easy to even have to ask this question, because on
Speaker 2: June twenty eighth of twenty thirteen, that's the day that
Speaker 2: everything changed. This kind of joyful life of journeys it
Speaker 2: comes to an end because it's on that day that
Speaker 2: your son, his full name is Luis more Lagunes Das, disappears.
Speaker 2: It's in Bedra Gruz, and at that time in twenty thirteen,
Speaker 2: Bera Gruz, which is normally not known as a state
Speaker 2: of a lot of violence, but at this time Betra Gruz,
Speaker 2: and frankly Mexico in general, the violence was really on
Speaker 2: the uptick in a way that it was drawing a
Speaker 2: lot of attention.
Speaker 1: Thirty one Now bodies have now been confirmed in the
Speaker 1: eastern Gulf Coast state of Vera Cruz as a state
Speaker 1: that has been plagued by drug related violence.
Speaker 2: So can you tell us what happened on June twenty eighth,
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen.
Speaker 1: Well, actually it happened kind of slowly for me because
Speaker 1: I didn't find out the first day because when he
Speaker 1: was working, I tried to not interfere, but his girlfriends
Speaker 1: started calling me, sending messages and stuff like she couldn't
Speaker 1: reach him, and she had no idea what he was.
Speaker 1: In a couple of days, all the alarms went off,
Speaker 1: and that's when I started to get really worried. I
Speaker 1: called his friends, people that worked for him, and they
Speaker 1: said that he was all right, not to worry, he
Speaker 1: would call me. But there was this feeling, this, you know,
Speaker 1: like God's feeling.
Speaker 2: So you call his friends, you're getting desperate now, and
Speaker 2: they're telling you, no, not the progupe elasta en like
Speaker 2: he's okay, Like, don't worry. It's not that they knew
Speaker 2: where he was. They were just saying the normal thing,
Speaker 2: he's out visiting somebody, or his phone is lost battery.
Speaker 2: Is that kind of what they were saying to you.
Speaker 1: They said that he was working at a place where
Speaker 1: he didn't have any signal. He was working in one
Speaker 1: of a cienda. But then I knew that not that
Speaker 1: many days would go and my son wouldn't reach me
Speaker 1: because he knew that I would get crazy. It turns
Speaker 1: out that the people who worked for him were involved,
Speaker 1: and it's kidnapping.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So this is no mystery, This is not you know,
Speaker 1: it's not something they were doing to protect me. They
Speaker 1: were just falling for time. You could just feel it
Speaker 1: as a mom exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then and you began to feel like these people
Speaker 2: who are his coworkers were actually not being honest with you.
Speaker 2: And I guess what's even worse, Lucy, is that everybody
Speaker 2: was looking at you and saying, what's the matter with you?
Speaker 2: You're acting crazy? Everything is fine.
Speaker 1: When I go back, you know, mentally to that day,
Speaker 1: it's like a nightmare.
Speaker 2: And I can hear it in your voice. It's like
Speaker 2: you're right back there, you know, in your bedroom, unable
Speaker 2: to get out of bed, collapsing, total mental exhaustion and sadness.
Speaker 2: At some point, Lucy, in this trajectory, something clicks for
Speaker 2: you. You probably had already seen many mothers in Mexico Kee Yoran,
Speaker 2: Yoran is done this. Esperada's just crying. But not all
Speaker 2: of them stand up and say, you know what, I
Speaker 2: need to fight, I need to do something. I cannot
Speaker 2: just sit here and wait. Do you remember when that
Speaker 2: moment happened for you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, I went to see the authorities and I
Speaker 1: took a good look at the at the police that
Speaker 1: were in charge of the investigation. I noticed, I said,
Speaker 1: this are not the kind of people that I trust
Speaker 1: with something like my son, I said, I got to
Speaker 1: do something, And then I started meeting all the other
Speaker 1: people who were going through the situation.
Speaker 2: You never imagined that you would be one of them.
Speaker 1: I never. I never, because Mexico was the country of peace.
Speaker 1: But then they declare war all of a sudden, and
Speaker 1: Vera Cruz was completely completely taken over by violence and insecurity, more.
Speaker 4: Violence in Mexico, but on a worrying scale, thirty five
Speaker 4: bodies dumped underneath a bridge in eastern Mexico. But a
Speaker 4: Cruz was a quiet port city. Now dead men and
Speaker 4: women are dumped near shopping centers.
Speaker 1: But my son was not a very rich person that
Speaker 1: I thought would be a good candidate for kidnapping. He
Speaker 1: was a very successful businessman at twenty nine, and that's
Speaker 1: when they saw they would make some money out of him,
Speaker 1: and they did well.
Speaker 2: How did you decide exactly what to do do in
Speaker 2: those first days of beginning to take some sort of action.
Speaker 1: It's just knowing that my son needed me and that
Speaker 1: I wouldn't let him down. I was easy for me
Speaker 1: to decide because I knew there was no other There
Speaker 1: was no choice I had to stand up and do something.
Speaker 1: I was in a terrible depression. I was sick. I
Speaker 1: was so weak with crying and going all over you know,
Speaker 1: different places, different agencies, going from one place.
Speaker 5: It was.
Speaker 1: Madness and my heart was completely broken. But at that
Speaker 1: time I just wanted to die. I wanted to lay
Speaker 1: down in just die. But I figure, who's going to
Speaker 1: looks at my son? And I got up and started fighting.
Speaker 2: You know, Lucy, I really want to thank you for
Speaker 2: being so honest with me, because you don't ever get
Speaker 2: over a trauma like this. Now you can live day
Speaker 2: to day and find a way to laugh, but you
Speaker 2: never can get over this. It's been ten years, and
Speaker 2: just hearing you talk about this, I'm right there with
Speaker 2: you in your sadness and just the kind of craziness
Speaker 2: of going from one Mexican institution to another trying to
Speaker 2: find answers. At some point, you know, these become the
Speaker 2: initial efforts to turn your particular rage and now with
Speaker 2: other people just like you, into something that was organized.
Speaker 2: I think you started by what creating a WhatsApp group?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the way it started. You know, technology, technology
Speaker 1: can do wonders. Because I started meeting people that were
Speaker 1: undergoing my same situation, and even worse because some of
Speaker 1: those moms had little children and they didn't have a
Speaker 1: lot of time to go around. I had like a
Speaker 1: moral obligation to help them too. You know, I have
Speaker 1: a college education and I know what to say to
Speaker 1: the authorities. Some of them don't even know how to start,
Speaker 1: you know, placing a file or anything like that. So
Speaker 1: I said, I need to help them. I need to
Speaker 1: find not only my son, I need to find them all,
Speaker 1: because I'm not going to be satisfied with just finding
Speaker 1: my son. That's too selfish. And I said, no, I
Speaker 1: gotta get up and do something about all the other
Speaker 1: ones too. And that's when it started.
Speaker 2: People do begin to know and hear about STO And
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, you're at a Mother's Day demonstration in Beracruz,
Speaker 2: drawing attention to this issue, and two men jump out
Speaker 2: of a vehicle and they hand this group of mothers
Speaker 2: a map take us to that moment at the demonstration.
Speaker 1: It happened so suddenly, I mean, nobody noticed the two men.
Speaker 1: We look at their faces because there were so many
Speaker 1: of us going around and making a lot of noise,
Speaker 1: and they handed us those copies and they just left.
Speaker 1: This really happened like in a flash. So when I
Speaker 1: saw that, I knew immediately because it was very specific.
Speaker 1: But I didn't want to tell the months at the
Speaker 1: moment because that would spoil the strength the energy of
Speaker 1: the march. So the next day I told them, look,
Speaker 1: we have the place. Now we know where we're going
Speaker 1: to start looking. So we were there for three years,
Speaker 1: digging every day.
Speaker 2: That happened in August of twenty sixteen, is that when
Speaker 2: you uncovered this grave.
Speaker 1: That's when we began, because you know, it takes time.
Speaker 1: We found one hundred and fifty six graves. Three hundred
Speaker 1: and two buddies were there waiting for us to bring
Speaker 1: them to the light.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And the authorities had carried out a search over there already,
Speaker 1: but they didn't do a good job.
Speaker 2: And how did like literally it dig? How did you
Speaker 2: later figure out, actually, we can't just dig. We need
Speaker 2: to come up with a way to see if there's
Speaker 2: something underground. We're going to use sticks and we're going
Speaker 2: to use our sense of smell.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually it took a course in forensics, so they
Speaker 1: taught us the basics. So they teach us how not
Speaker 1: to damage the bones, but the actual technique of finding
Speaker 1: the bodies we learned in Iguala with the people who
Speaker 1: were looking for the students from Mayotin Napa.
Speaker 5: Demonstrations in Mexico increased and became violent this weekend, as
Speaker 5: protesters accused the Mexican government of reacting slowly to the
Speaker 5: disappearance and apparent murders of forty three students who attended
Speaker 5: a rural teachers college.
Speaker 2: And they're the ones who teach you to put the
Speaker 2: stick into the ground, and depending on the smell that
Speaker 2: comes out from the stick that you've put into the ground,
Speaker 2: you'll know whether or not there's a body underneath.
Speaker 1: We use it's two meters and a half, usually like
Speaker 1: a pole made of iron. It's one of those constructions, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: And we have a custom made because we have to
Speaker 1: place something on top, like a tee so that we
Speaker 1: can pull it out. We hammer it into the ground
Speaker 1: completely all the way in, and we have to be
Speaker 1: very careful because you don't want to damage to break
Speaker 1: the bones. And then once we have the we picked
Speaker 1: up the sense of smell, we can make a hole
Speaker 1: so we don't have to go around making holes without
Speaker 1: having any idea. And then most of the times, if
Speaker 1: we pick up the smell on the pole, it's usually
Speaker 1: a body. It's kind of very basic, very primitive kind
Speaker 1: of technique, but it works. It works for us because
Speaker 1: we tried to use dogs. The dogs didn't work. I
Speaker 1: think they are overpowered because there were so many and
Speaker 1: the dogs didn't pick up anything.
Speaker 2: It feels Lucy that at this point in the journey
Speaker 2: it was like we've taken control of our emotions. So
Speaker 2: now we're unstoppable because now we're just going to do
Speaker 2: all of the research, all of the work, all of
Speaker 2: the data, all of the digging. It feels like you
Speaker 2: just there was a turn in the whole story about
Speaker 2: as you said, you know, the emotions went to a
Speaker 2: different place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because the pain is there. It's there all the time,
Speaker 1: but you learn to work around it. And I can
Speaker 1: tell you I was not expecting to see what I
Speaker 1: have seen.
Speaker 2: So how do you take care of each other? How
Speaker 2: do you support each other? As mothers of the disappeared
Speaker 2: in Mexico.
Speaker 1: We are very close, We are sisters. Because pain is
Speaker 1: an equalizer. So I try to give them workshops, get
Speaker 1: people that teach them how to do things that can
Speaker 1: help them, you know, make a living. But it's the sisterhood.
Speaker 1: And in the group, for example, we can talk about
Speaker 1: our missing children all the time and nobody gets upset.
Speaker 1: Nobody complains because in their houses, you know, with their families,
Speaker 1: they cannot talk about them anymore. Because families, people complain,
Speaker 1: they say, he's lost, you're never going to see him again,
Speaker 1: so stop talking about him or her, and they get mad.
Speaker 1: But with us, we can talk about them all the
Speaker 1: time and they are present all the time. It's the
Speaker 1: one place where we can be ourselves because that's what
Speaker 1: we are now. What is at the center of our
Speaker 1: lives is looking for for our loved ones.
Speaker 2: That's really incredibly powerful. Lucia, So our listeners don't know this,
Speaker 2: but you're speaking to us from London, where you live
Speaker 2: these days. That's a big change to leave Vera Cruz
Speaker 2: and end up in London.
Speaker 1: It's related to my husband's work. But every three months
Speaker 1: I traveled back to Mexico. I'm still in charge of
Speaker 1: the group. People say, but are you going to be
Speaker 1: doing this for the rest of your lives? That's exactly
Speaker 1: the way it looks, and I don't mind. I know
Speaker 1: I have to find my son, and not only my son,
Speaker 1: because it's not only about him anymore. If I find
Speaker 1: him and I don't find the others, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be happy. I'm not going to be complete. So
Speaker 1: I have to find them all and or at least
Speaker 1: continue trying.
Speaker 2: Can you give us an update on the status of
Speaker 2: the investigation of the disappearance of your son, Luis Giermo.
Speaker 1: I know things, but justice in Mexico is non existence.
Speaker 1: They say that the official figure is ninety eight percent impunity.
Speaker 1: I say it's one hundred because we are like three
Speaker 1: hundred mothers in the group and maybe a little bit more,
Speaker 1: and none of those cases has any kind of justice
Speaker 1: so far. So now I know that my son's workers
Speaker 1: were involved, but a lot of pieces I'm missing because
Speaker 1: they've been so neglectful, and I'm on top of the
Speaker 1: of the investigation all the time, even from here. They
Speaker 1: really just did. I make it so hard so that
Speaker 1: people say, Okay, I give up, I'm done with this,
Speaker 1: But that's not going to happen. It's my son. How
Speaker 1: can I say I give up.
Speaker 2: Something is going to happen in Mexico this year. That
Speaker 2: is historic. Mexico will end up having a woman president
Speaker 2: elected this year. And I'm wondering, have you heard anything
Speaker 2: from either candidate regarding so Lesito or your son or
Speaker 2: the disappeared in Mexico.
Speaker 1: Not so far. But I mean, we don't get involved
Speaker 1: in politics. Solesito is so independent. We make our own money.
Speaker 1: We do a lot of things to collect the money
Speaker 1: that we need for the searches, raffles bengals, we sell
Speaker 1: secondhand clothes. We don't want to be attached to any
Speaker 1: kind of politician because that would let you down eventually,
Speaker 1: and we cannot be let down anymore. We've been let
Speaker 1: down by everybody, so that's it that no more.
Speaker 2: I appreciate your independent It's really something to admire. Every
Speaker 2: May tenth Mayo is Mother's Day in Mexico, no matter
Speaker 2: what day it ends up. You have two other grown
Speaker 2: adult kids besides Luis Gietmo who disappeared, And I want
Speaker 2: to know what Mother's Day is like at home for you.
Speaker 2: Do you celebrate Mother's Day?
Speaker 1: For us, Mother's Day, it's just another day for fighting,
Speaker 1: trying to do something for our missing children, and they're
Speaker 1: always at the center of all those days. We have
Speaker 1: the Mother's Day in March.
Speaker 2: I just find it so interesting that as a Mexican mom,
Speaker 2: Mexican Mother's Day has become, as you say, a day
Speaker 2: of activism and just another day to fight.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like before it meant a present in and maybe
Speaker 1: a good time, today it means so much more. We
Speaker 1: don't celebrate anymore. You know, my other kids, if they
Speaker 1: are in Vera Cruz or Mexico at the time, we
Speaker 1: get together and we do a little something, but our
Speaker 1: fight is really the core of everything we do.
Speaker 2: Lucy, I thank you so much for spending some time
Speaker 2: with me on this Mother's Day. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: The and and good luck on your search for Luis
Speaker 2: gi Erbo and and you know, congratulations on being a grandma.
Speaker 2: Also because la bida continu.
Speaker 1: Lucy Grazia Abrasso.
Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Roxanna Guire and edited by
Speaker 2: Andrea Lopez Cruzado. It was mixed by Julia Caruso. The
Speaker 2: Latino USA team also includes Victoria Strada, Renaldo Lanoz Junior,
Speaker 2: Jori mar Marquez, Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, Nour Saudi, and
Speaker 2: Nancy Trujuillo. Penilee Ramirez is our co executive producer. Our
Speaker 2: director of Engineering is Stephanie Lebou. Our marketing manager is
Speaker 2: Luis Luna. Our theme music was composed by Senia Rubinos.
Speaker 2: I'm your host and co executive producer Maria Josa. Join
Speaker 2: us again on our next episode. In the meantime, I'll
Speaker 2: see you on all of our social media, which now
Speaker 2: includes Peek Dog, Instagram, YouTube, tweet, eggs, all of them.
Speaker 2: I'll see you there and remember yes.
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