1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: If I find him and I don't find the others, 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: I'm not going to be happy. I'm not going to 3 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: be complete. 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 2: From Futuro media and PRX, It's Latino USA. I'm Maria 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 2: no Josa Today activist Lucia Dsinoo. She's a mother who 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 2: became a leader in the fight to search and find 7 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 2: that disappeared in Mexico. Lucia Dshinao is a former teacher. 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 2: She lived a quiet and pretty much happy life in 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 2: the seaside state of Vera Cruz in southern Mexico, but 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: then in twenty thirteen, her world was turned upside down. 11 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 2: Overnight that year, her twenty nine year old son, Luis Guillermo, 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 2: a popular DJ, didn't return home. He had been kidnapped. 13 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: I just collas. 14 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 3: It was horrible because it's like this feeling, this complete 15 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 3: realization that he's missing. 16 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:15,199 Speaker 2: And so given the inaction of the Mexican authorities, Lucy 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 2: decided she had to do something that would be the 18 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: beginning of her tireless search for her son, a quest 19 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 2: that is now over ten years old. 20 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: If my son, Amia, how can I say I give up? 21 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: As drug related violence grew in Veracruz and the rest 22 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: of Mexico, kidnappings became more and more frequent. In twenty thirteen, 23 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: the year Luis Gilletmo went missing, six hundred people disappeared 24 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: in the state of Veracruz and close to eighteen thousand 25 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: disappeared in all of Mexico. Soon, Lucy would meet other 26 00:01:55,640 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: mothers just like her. They considered themselves fighters looking for 27 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: their disappeared children. Amid their shared suffering, they formed a group. 28 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:10,839 Speaker 2: They called it Solesito, which means a little sun in Spanish. 29 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: When you're looking for something or for somebody, you need 30 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: a lot of light. So I said, well, so the 31 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: sun sun is the symbol of light. 32 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 2: What happened next seems pretty much impossible to believe, but 33 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: it's true. These mothers started to dig, literally digging, doing 34 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: the jobs of archaeologists and forensics in their search for 35 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 2: their children. In twenty sixteen, they discovered what turned out 36 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: to be one of the biggest mass graves in all 37 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: of Latin America, Golinas Re Santa Fe, located in the 38 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 2: state of Veracruz. Over the next few years, Solesito became 39 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 2: an inspiration to others outside of Meca families also looking 40 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 2: for their missing loved ones. In this episode, Lucy tells 41 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 2: us about her continuous efforts to find her son and 42 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: how she's built a community of mothers mothers of disappeared children. 43 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: Here's our conversation, Lucy, welcome to Latino, USA. It's an 44 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: honor to have you on our show. 45 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. It's a very good opportunity for 46 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: me to get the word out of the missing cases 47 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: in Mexico. 48 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: Lucy, let's go back to before you became an activist, 49 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: because you had another life you're living in back Gruz. 50 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: Just kind of paint the picture. What was your daily 51 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 2: life like. 52 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: I had begun to live quiet life, traveling with my 53 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: husband because he's a sea captain, so he has to 54 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: travel very much. And I accompanied him because my kids 55 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: were already growed ups. So I had the opportunity to 56 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: get around travel visit different places in Indonesia, Singapore. So 57 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: life was pretty nice for me because I was already 58 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: feeling very free. I was traveling back and forth and 59 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: this ting the kids very frequently too. You know, I 60 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: never neglected them, never ever, So I was a mom 61 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: all the time. 62 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 2: So then, and I know this is hard, Lucy, and 63 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: I know that you've done this before, but it's not 64 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: easy to even have to ask this question, because on 65 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 2: June twenty eighth of twenty thirteen, that's the day that 66 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 2: everything changed. This kind of joyful life of journeys it 67 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 2: comes to an end because it's on that day that 68 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: your son, his full name is Luis more Lagunes Das, disappears. 69 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 2: It's in Bedra Gruz, and at that time in twenty thirteen, 70 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: Bera Gruz, which is normally not known as a state 71 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 2: of a lot of violence, but at this time Betra Gruz, 72 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: and frankly Mexico in general, the violence was really on 73 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 2: the uptick in a way that it was drawing a 74 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: lot of attention. 75 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: Thirty one Now bodies have now been confirmed in the 76 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: eastern Gulf Coast state of Vera Cruz as a state 77 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: that has been plagued by drug related violence. 78 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 2: So can you tell us what happened on June twenty eighth, 79 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: twenty thirteen. 80 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: Well, actually it happened kind of slowly for me because 81 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: I didn't find out the first day because when he 82 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: was working, I tried to not interfere, but his girlfriends 83 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: started calling me, sending messages and stuff like she couldn't 84 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: reach him, and she had no idea what he was. 85 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,359 Speaker 1: In a couple of days, all the alarms went off, 86 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: and that's when I started to get really worried. I 87 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: called his friends, people that worked for him, and they 88 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: said that he was all right, not to worry, he 89 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: would call me. But there was this feeling, this, you know, 90 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: like God's feeling. 91 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 2: So you call his friends, you're getting desperate now, and 92 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 2: they're telling you, no, not the progupe elasta en like 93 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: he's okay, Like, don't worry. It's not that they knew 94 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: where he was. They were just saying the normal thing, 95 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: he's out visiting somebody, or his phone is lost battery. 96 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 2: Is that kind of what they were saying to you. 97 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: They said that he was working at a place where 98 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: he didn't have any signal. He was working in one 99 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: of a cienda. But then I knew that not that 100 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: many days would go and my son wouldn't reach me 101 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: because he knew that I would get crazy. It turns 102 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: out that the people who worked for him were involved, 103 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: and it's kidnapping. 104 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 105 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: So this is no mystery, This is not you know, 106 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: it's not something they were doing to protect me. They 107 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: were just falling for time. You could just feel it 108 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: as a mom exactly. Yeah. 109 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 2: And then and you began to feel like these people 110 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 2: who are his coworkers were actually not being honest with you. 111 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 2: And I guess what's even worse, Lucy, is that everybody 112 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: was looking at you and saying, what's the matter with you? 113 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 2: You're acting crazy? Everything is fine. 114 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: When I go back, you know, mentally to that day, 115 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: it's like a nightmare. 116 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 2: And I can hear it in your voice. It's like 117 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: you're right back there, you know, in your bedroom, unable 118 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: to get out of bed, collapsing, total mental exhaustion and sadness. 119 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: At some point, Lucy, in this trajectory, something clicks for 120 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 2: you. You probably had already seen many mothers in Mexico Kee Yoran, 121 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 2: Yoran is done this. Esperada's just crying. But not all 122 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: of them stand up and say, you know what, I 123 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 2: need to fight, I need to do something. I cannot 124 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 2: just sit here and wait. Do you remember when that 125 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: moment happened for you? 126 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, I went to see the authorities and I 127 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: took a good look at the at the police that 128 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: were in charge of the investigation. I noticed, I said, 129 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: this are not the kind of people that I trust 130 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: with something like my son, I said, I got to 131 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: do something, And then I started meeting all the other 132 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: people who were going through the situation. 133 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 2: You never imagined that you would be one of them. 134 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: I never. I never, because Mexico was the country of peace. 135 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: But then they declare war all of a sudden, and 136 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: Vera Cruz was completely completely taken over by violence and insecurity, more. 137 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 4: Violence in Mexico, but on a worrying scale, thirty five 138 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 4: bodies dumped underneath a bridge in eastern Mexico. But a 139 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 4: Cruz was a quiet port city. Now dead men and 140 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 4: women are dumped near shopping centers. 141 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: But my son was not a very rich person that 142 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: I thought would be a good candidate for kidnapping. He 143 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: was a very successful businessman at twenty nine, and that's 144 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: when they saw they would make some money out of him, 145 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: and they did well. 146 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 2: How did you decide exactly what to do do in 147 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: those first days of beginning to take some sort of action. 148 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: It's just knowing that my son needed me and that 149 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: I wouldn't let him down. I was easy for me 150 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: to decide because I knew there was no other There 151 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: was no choice I had to stand up and do something. 152 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: I was in a terrible depression. I was sick. I 153 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: was so weak with crying and going all over you know, 154 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: different places, different agencies, going from one place. 155 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 5: It was. 156 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: Madness and my heart was completely broken. But at that 157 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: time I just wanted to die. I wanted to lay 158 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: down in just die. But I figure, who's going to 159 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: looks at my son? And I got up and started fighting. 160 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 2: You know, Lucy, I really want to thank you for 161 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 2: being so honest with me, because you don't ever get 162 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: over a trauma like this. Now you can live day 163 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 2: to day and find a way to laugh, but you 164 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 2: never can get over this. It's been ten years, and 165 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 2: just hearing you talk about this, I'm right there with 166 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 2: you in your sadness and just the kind of craziness 167 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: of going from one Mexican institution to another trying to 168 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: find answers. At some point, you know, these become the 169 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 2: initial efforts to turn your particular rage and now with 170 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 2: other people just like you, into something that was organized. 171 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 2: I think you started by what creating a WhatsApp group? 172 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the way it started. You know, technology, technology 173 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: can do wonders. Because I started meeting people that were 174 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: undergoing my same situation, and even worse because some of 175 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: those moms had little children and they didn't have a 176 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: lot of time to go around. I had like a 177 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: moral obligation to help them too. You know, I have 178 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: a college education and I know what to say to 179 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: the authorities. Some of them don't even know how to start, 180 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 1: you know, placing a file or anything like that. So 181 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: I said, I need to help them. I need to 182 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: find not only my son, I need to find them all, 183 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: because I'm not going to be satisfied with just finding 184 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: my son. That's too selfish. And I said, no, I 185 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: gotta get up and do something about all the other 186 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: ones too. And that's when it started. 187 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 2: People do begin to know and hear about STO And 188 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, you're at a Mother's Day demonstration in Beracruz, 189 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: drawing attention to this issue, and two men jump out 190 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 2: of a vehicle and they hand this group of mothers 191 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 2: a map take us to that moment at the demonstration. 192 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: It happened so suddenly, I mean, nobody noticed the two men. 193 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: We look at their faces because there were so many 194 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 1: of us going around and making a lot of noise, 195 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: and they handed us those copies and they just left. 196 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: This really happened like in a flash. So when I 197 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,599 Speaker 1: saw that, I knew immediately because it was very specific. 198 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: But I didn't want to tell the months at the 199 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: moment because that would spoil the strength the energy of 200 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: the march. So the next day I told them, look, 201 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,319 Speaker 1: we have the place. Now we know where we're going 202 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: to start looking. So we were there for three years, 203 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: digging every day. 204 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 2: That happened in August of twenty sixteen, is that when 205 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 2: you uncovered this grave. 206 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: That's when we began, because you know, it takes time. 207 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: We found one hundred and fifty six graves. Three hundred 208 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: and two buddies were there waiting for us to bring 209 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: them to the light. 210 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 211 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: And the authorities had carried out a search over there already, 212 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: but they didn't do a good job. 213 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 2: And how did like literally it dig? How did you 214 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 2: later figure out, actually, we can't just dig. We need 215 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 2: to come up with a way to see if there's 216 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 2: something underground. We're going to use sticks and we're going 217 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: to use our sense of smell. 218 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually it took a course in forensics, so they 219 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: taught us the basics. So they teach us how not 220 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: to damage the bones, but the actual technique of finding 221 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: the bodies we learned in Iguala with the people who 222 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: were looking for the students from Mayotin Napa. 223 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 5: Demonstrations in Mexico increased and became violent this weekend, as 224 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 5: protesters accused the Mexican government of reacting slowly to the 225 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 5: disappearance and apparent murders of forty three students who attended 226 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 5: a rural teachers college. 227 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 2: And they're the ones who teach you to put the 228 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 2: stick into the ground, and depending on the smell that 229 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 2: comes out from the stick that you've put into the ground, 230 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 2: you'll know whether or not there's a body underneath. 231 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: We use it's two meters and a half, usually like 232 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: a pole made of iron. It's one of those constructions, okay, okay, 233 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: And we have a custom made because we have to 234 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: place something on top, like a tee so that we 235 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: can pull it out. We hammer it into the ground 236 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: completely all the way in, and we have to be 237 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: very careful because you don't want to damage to break 238 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: the bones. And then once we have the we picked 239 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: up the sense of smell, we can make a hole 240 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: so we don't have to go around making holes without 241 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: having any idea. And then most of the times, if 242 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: we pick up the smell on the pole, it's usually 243 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: a body. It's kind of very basic, very primitive kind 244 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: of technique, but it works. It works for us because 245 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: we tried to use dogs. The dogs didn't work. I 246 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: think they are overpowered because there were so many and 247 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: the dogs didn't pick up anything. 248 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 2: It feels Lucy that at this point in the journey 249 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 2: it was like we've taken control of our emotions. So 250 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 2: now we're unstoppable because now we're just going to do 251 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 2: all of the research, all of the work, all of 252 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: the data, all of the digging. It feels like you 253 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: just there was a turn in the whole story about 254 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 2: as you said, you know, the emotions went to a 255 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 2: different place. 256 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, because the pain is there. It's there all the time, 257 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: but you learn to work around it. And I can 258 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: tell you I was not expecting to see what I 259 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: have seen. 260 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 2: So how do you take care of each other? How 261 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 2: do you support each other? As mothers of the disappeared 262 00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 2: in Mexico. 263 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: We are very close, We are sisters. Because pain is 264 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: an equalizer. So I try to give them workshops, get 265 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: people that teach them how to do things that can 266 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: help them, you know, make a living. But it's the sisterhood. 267 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: And in the group, for example, we can talk about 268 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: our missing children all the time and nobody gets upset. 269 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: Nobody complains because in their houses, you know, with their families, 270 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: they cannot talk about them anymore. Because families, people complain, 271 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: they say, he's lost, you're never going to see him again, 272 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: so stop talking about him or her, and they get mad. 273 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: But with us, we can talk about them all the 274 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: time and they are present all the time. It's the 275 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: one place where we can be ourselves because that's what 276 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: we are now. What is at the center of our 277 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: lives is looking for for our loved ones. 278 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 2: That's really incredibly powerful. Lucia, So our listeners don't know this, 279 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 2: but you're speaking to us from London, where you live 280 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 2: these days. That's a big change to leave Vera Cruz 281 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 2: and end up in London. 282 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: It's related to my husband's work. But every three months 283 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: I traveled back to Mexico. I'm still in charge of 284 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: the group. People say, but are you going to be 285 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: doing this for the rest of your lives? That's exactly 286 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: the way it looks, and I don't mind. I know 287 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: I have to find my son, and not only my son, 288 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: because it's not only about him anymore. If I find 289 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 1: him and I don't find the others, I'm not going 290 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: to be happy. I'm not going to be complete. So 291 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 1: I have to find them all and or at least 292 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: continue trying. 293 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 2: Can you give us an update on the status of 294 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 2: the investigation of the disappearance of your son, Luis Giermo. 295 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: I know things, but justice in Mexico is non existence. 296 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: They say that the official figure is ninety eight percent impunity. 297 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: I say it's one hundred because we are like three 298 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: hundred mothers in the group and maybe a little bit more, 299 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: and none of those cases has any kind of justice 300 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: so far. So now I know that my son's workers 301 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: were involved, but a lot of pieces I'm missing because 302 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: they've been so neglectful, and I'm on top of the 303 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: of the investigation all the time, even from here. They 304 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: really just did. I make it so hard so that 305 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,400 Speaker 1: people say, Okay, I give up, I'm done with this, 306 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: But that's not going to happen. It's my son. How 307 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: can I say I give up. 308 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 2: Something is going to happen in Mexico this year. That 309 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: is historic. Mexico will end up having a woman president 310 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 2: elected this year. And I'm wondering, have you heard anything 311 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 2: from either candidate regarding so Lesito or your son or 312 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 2: the disappeared in Mexico. 313 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: Not so far. But I mean, we don't get involved 314 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: in politics. Solesito is so independent. We make our own money. 315 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: We do a lot of things to collect the money 316 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: that we need for the searches, raffles bengals, we sell 317 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: secondhand clothes. We don't want to be attached to any 318 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: kind of politician because that would let you down eventually, 319 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: and we cannot be let down anymore. We've been let 320 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: down by everybody, so that's it that no more. 321 00:21:53,720 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 2: I appreciate your independent It's really something to admire. Every 322 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 2: May tenth Mayo is Mother's Day in Mexico, no matter 323 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 2: what day it ends up. You have two other grown 324 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 2: adult kids besides Luis Gietmo who disappeared, And I want 325 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 2: to know what Mother's Day is like at home for you. 326 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,680 Speaker 2: Do you celebrate Mother's Day? 327 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: For us, Mother's Day, it's just another day for fighting, 328 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: trying to do something for our missing children, and they're 329 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: always at the center of all those days. We have 330 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: the Mother's Day in March. 331 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 2: I just find it so interesting that as a Mexican mom, 332 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 2: Mexican Mother's Day has become, as you say, a day 333 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 2: of activism and just another day to fight. 334 00:22:54,680 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. Like before it meant a present in and maybe 335 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: a good time, today it means so much more. We 336 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: don't celebrate anymore. You know, my other kids, if they 337 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: are in Vera Cruz or Mexico at the time, we 338 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: get together and we do a little something, but our 339 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: fight is really the core of everything we do. 340 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 2: Lucy, I thank you so much for spending some time 341 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 2: with me on this Mother's Day. I really appreciate it. 342 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 2: The and and good luck on your search for Luis 343 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 2: gi Erbo and and you know, congratulations on being a grandma. 344 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: Also because la bida continu. 345 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: Lucy Grazia Abrasso. 346 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Roxanna Guire and edited by 347 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 2: Andrea Lopez Cruzado. It was mixed by Julia Caruso. The 348 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 2: Latino USA team also includes Victoria Strada, Renaldo Lanoz Junior, 349 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 2: Jori mar Marquez, Marta Martinez, Mike Sargent, Nour Saudi, and 350 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 2: Nancy Trujuillo. Penilee Ramirez is our co executive producer. Our 351 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 2: director of Engineering is Stephanie Lebou. Our marketing manager is 352 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 2: Luis Luna. Our theme music was composed by Senia Rubinos. 353 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 2: I'm your host and co executive producer Maria Josa. Join 354 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 2: us again on our next episode. In the meantime, I'll 355 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 2: see you on all of our social media, which now 356 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 2: includes Peek Dog, Instagram, YouTube, tweet, eggs, all of them. 357 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 2: I'll see you there and remember yes. 358 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: Latino USA is made possible in part by W. K. 359 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: Kellogg Foundation, a partner with Communities where Children Come First, 360 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: New York Women's Foundation, the New York Women's Foundation, funding 361 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,199 Speaker 1: women leaders that build solutions in their communities, and celebrating 362 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: thirty years of radical generosity and funding for Latino USA's 363 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: coverage of a culture of health is made possible in 364 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 1: part by a grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation