Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and
Speaker 2: Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. Well, speaking of technology, I
Speaker 2: want to bring in ci Uog. She's founder in CEO
Speaker 2: of Factorial Energy. She's been on our program before. Factorial
Speaker 2: is a company that's working on solid state batteries. It's
Speaker 2: partnered with automotive manufacturers including Mercedes, Benz, Delantis, Hyundai and more.
Speaker 2: She joins us once again from Massachusetts. See you good,
Speaker 2: have you back with us. We're going to get to
Speaker 2: what you're doing at the firm and how these batteries
Speaker 2: are different at Factorial Energy in just a minute. But
Speaker 2: I do want you to weigh in on this evolved
Speaker 2: industrial policy, if we can even call it that, that
Speaker 2: we're seeing from this administration. It comes after the Department
Speaker 2: of Defenses promised four hundred million dollars to MP Materials,
Speaker 2: the supplier of and processor of rare Earth Materials. We
Speaker 2: spoke to Jim Litinski, the CEO of that company. It
Speaker 2: comes after the news this week of AMD and in
Speaker 2: Nvidia sharing some of their Chinese revenue with the US government.
Speaker 2: It comes after the Golden Shared deal for US Steel.
Speaker 2: How do you think about this as the founder of
Speaker 2: a tech firm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the global competition on technology is precedented
Speaker 1: and this is a really good time for technology development,
Speaker 1: but also we have to be aware of the geopolitical
Speaker 1: tensions around it. And as factorial, I think we have
Speaker 1: been later focused on our key customers as you just
Speaker 1: mentioned mer Cities, Slantists, Hyunda, Nikiya, and those are global
Speaker 1: partners for US spent across multiple continents, and of course
Speaker 1: you have a great presence in the US as well.
Speaker 1: For US, I think our focus is not only about
Speaker 1: our diversified global customer portfolio, but also diversified supply chain,
Speaker 1: which is critical here today. And we're excited to hear
Speaker 1: that you actually announced the program yesterday about supporting battery
Speaker 1: related material as well as battery manufacturing as well.
Speaker 2: It's been quite a while since we had you on
Speaker 2: the program. It was before I believe we heard a
Speaker 2: lot about what the Trump administration's plans were for industrial
Speaker 2: policy and the way that the administration is thinking about EVS,
Speaker 2: the way it's thinking about batteries, its relationship and deterioration there.
Speaker 2: So with Elon Musk and it's also before tariffs, and
Speaker 2: I'm wondering from a supply chain perspective, given what goes
Speaker 2: into solid state batteries, how your supply chain has been
Speaker 2: affected by tariff policy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I would say there has been a lot
Speaker 1: of discussions about the rare earth metals recently how US
Speaker 1: is securing that. Fortunately, battery doesn't really have Those were
Speaker 1: earth metals and between lithium, cobalt, and nicole those are
Speaker 1: critical for LIMI batteries, but they're actually transition metals, and
Speaker 1: especially for victorial we're not using LLLP, which is also
Speaker 1: a critical material that has been quite constrained from the
Speaker 1: China market, and also we don't use that as well.
Speaker 1: So I think to that extent we have been very
Speaker 1: well protected from the global supply chain constraints, but also
Speaker 1: we also want to be aware of the potential threats
Speaker 1: coming up right now. We actually have been actively working
Speaker 1: on not only just to work with direct suppliers and
Speaker 1: building the supply chain coalition, but also working with recycling partners.
Speaker 1: You know, recently we announced this partnership with a Korean
Speaker 1: conglomerate called some Guilt, and they're one of the largest
Speaker 1: recyclers recyclers in the space, not only for the M batteries,
Speaker 1: but they have done a lot for solide battery as well.
Speaker 3: So I think that's actually.
Speaker 1: Going to be deeply protect us with a closed loop
Speaker 1: supply chain in the future, especially when the company is
Speaker 1: at scale.
Speaker 4: Forgive me, So let's stay batteries. What exactly are they?
Speaker 4: I feel like we so often talk about ev batteries
Speaker 4: and what's going on. We throw terms around, but what
Speaker 4: exactly is a solid state battery? Which is your bread
Speaker 4: and butter?
Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, yes, exactly, Carol, and I would say solid
Speaker 1: sea battery is like a traditional battery, but instead of
Speaker 1: using a liquid electroly like, it is a solid or
Speaker 1: quasi solid stained material, which means you combine a little
Speaker 1: bit of solid and a little bit liquid together, but
Speaker 1: the solid content will stabilize sou dramatically, and this makes
Speaker 1: a battery safer, longer lasting, and more powerful because it
Speaker 1: has dorm more energy and it's less likely to leak
Speaker 1: or catch on fire. And as you know, like the
Speaker 1: biggest market for a battery is on transportation, but actually
Speaker 1: battery is not only limited to transportation.
Speaker 3: It is in the.
Speaker 1: Air, it's on the water, it's in robotics, and it's
Speaker 1: also everywhare of energy storage for homes and businesses. So
Speaker 1: it's fundamentally in infrastructure, technology and product rather than something
Speaker 1: very like narrowly scopting a very specific application.
Speaker 4: And we mentioned that as Tim said earlier, that you
Speaker 4: partnered with automotive manufacturers including Mercedes, Benz, Stilantis, Hyundai. I'm
Speaker 4: just curious, so you guys are working together, is there
Speaker 4: actually products on the market. Give us an idea of
Speaker 4: kind of where you guys are in this process.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question.
Speaker 1: You know, we started the collaboration with those companies many
Speaker 1: years ago, and Kilonda and Kia were our first investor
Speaker 1: in the company and Mercedes A. Stalentists led our two
Speaker 1: hundred million around in twenty twenty two, and since then
Speaker 1: the company has gone a long way for product development.
Speaker 3: We launched the first one hundred powered solid.
Speaker 1: State battery with Stalentists in CES under the keynote speech.
Speaker 3: It was very well received.
Speaker 1: Since then, we have shipped thousands of batteries to our
Speaker 1: global partners. As of mid of last year, we launched
Speaker 1: the first B sample to Mercedes, which also marked the
Speaker 1: first B sample shipment to a global automotive globally for
Speaker 1: a solid state battery company, which is quite a breakthrough.
Speaker 1: And with that b sample, we actually were able to
Speaker 1: build the first vehicle together with Mercedes earlier this year
Speaker 1: and has the first vehicle rolling on the street in
Speaker 1: Scude Guard and that also marked the first electric vehicle
Speaker 1: that's been built by a solid state battery. And it's
Speaker 1: not only the first application a debut for a solid
Speaker 1: battery in the vehicle, but it's also in the broader
Speaker 1: immobility sector as well. And what is even more exciting
Speaker 1: is that recently, not only with the automotives, but we
Speaker 1: also a major breakthrough with the first shipment to a
Speaker 1: droll maker in North America. So that's going to be
Speaker 1: a very important near term application for the technology at
Speaker 1: a small scale.
Speaker 4: A couple of quick questions, so go back to and
Speaker 4: I think you talked about this in terms of, you know,
Speaker 4: batteries part of the problems. I mean, evs yay like,
Speaker 4: people like them, but then there's the batteries, right that
Speaker 4: you know, the waste and what happens with batteries because
Speaker 4: you kind of can't do much with them. So I'm
Speaker 4: just curious about what happens with these batteries if they
Speaker 4: after they don't work. What's the kind of I don't
Speaker 4: know recycling abilities or capabilities. Just give us an update
Speaker 4: on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, recycling is definitely a very important party close the loop,
Speaker 1: and not only just from the circular economy perspective, but
Speaker 1: it's important for the cost and supply chain resilience in
Speaker 1: the future. And I think in the near term what
Speaker 1: we see is that a lot of the battery recycling
Speaker 1: is coming to two pieces. One is for the scrapping
Speaker 1: of the battery and the vehicle as a whole and
Speaker 1: number party numbers. Two is about using those scrap materials
Speaker 1: to turn that into a black math, and from the
Speaker 1: black math to refine that into the raw materials and
Speaker 1: turning back to the battery again. So that's the recycling
Speaker 1: process that most of the recyclers have been adopting globally,
Speaker 1: and that's why we've been very aggressively working with actually
Speaker 1: two Korean recyclers right now, and both have a strong
Speaker 1: presence in the US, like you and Young Poo. That's
Speaker 1: the one we had actually announced last year in front
Speaker 1: of Sun Gil. What is more important that I think
Speaker 1: we also need more presence in the US for sali
Speaker 1: C battery recycling in the future, which will become a
Speaker 1: mainstream for our any storage and immobility. So yeah, we're
Speaker 1: actually working very closely with one of the US recyclers
Speaker 1: today to increase and enhance our recycling capabilities in the US.
Speaker 2: We're speaking with ci Wong. She's founder and CEO of Factorial.
Speaker 2: She has a PhD in chemistry. But I'm still trying
Speaker 2: to understand what how to build a battery myself. She
Speaker 2: knows how to do it well.
Speaker 4: What's interesting is you sound like you're making progress and
Speaker 4: you talk about the first vehicle with Mercedes and the
Speaker 4: first chipment to I think it was a drill company
Speaker 4: I think in the US. Forgive me if I didn't
Speaker 4: hear it correctly.
Speaker 3: A good company. So that will probably be the first application.
Speaker 1: It's actually not only for commercial but also defense applications
Speaker 1: for batteries.
Speaker 3: So how do you ramp up?
Speaker 4: When do you ramp up? So it sounds like you're
Speaker 4: still kind of finding your way forward. So when when
Speaker 4: is there a mass production point that makes you a
Speaker 4: viable financially viable company going forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we are actually having another fleet coming.
Speaker 3: Up from the first vehicle.
Speaker 1: So as we announced with more cities for the first
Speaker 1: vehicle this year, which we built and delivered already, and
Speaker 1: we're actually announcing with the fleet coming up in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six with Stalantists. We just announced a major milestone
Speaker 1: that both companies achieved last month to deliver this twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six fleet that's led by Dodge Charger Daytona, and
Speaker 1: it's not only just for Dodge, but it's also spent
Speaker 1: across the still a large platform which including g Chrysler
Speaker 1: of Romeo and the Maserati. And so with the fleeting
Speaker 1: twenty six, we're looking at twenty seven for the first
Speaker 1: commercial deployment and as early as twenty eight or twenty
Speaker 1: nine that we can see the scale coming up for
Speaker 1: this market. But even before that we may say, like
Speaker 1: Jove market and some of the defense applications may come
Speaker 1: even ahead of twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 4: All Right, we're gonna leave it on that note. Listen,
Speaker 4: so good to check in with you, and here are
Speaker 4: some of the progress that you've may look forward to
Speaker 4: hearing more in the future. Si Yongwang she is founder
Speaker 4: in CEO Factorial Energy, joining us from Massachusetts