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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Hi, how is everybody. It's Jackie Goldschneider and

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Speaker 1: we are two Jersey.

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Speaker 2: Jays and we just had a we I got some

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Speaker 2: d MS last week about our audio, so just FYI

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Speaker 2: it's fixed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we have all new Mike's brands, banking new mic

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Speaker 1: Actually hear us.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's like.

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Speaker 1: The only piece of good news I've had in the

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Speaker 1: past few days. My son broke part of his knee

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Speaker 1: in a basketball game and he had surgery this week,

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Speaker 1: and oh my goodness, I feel like there is nothing

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Speaker 1: like watching your kid in pain. Oh it's the worst.

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Speaker 1: So he is so uncomfortable. So I am just you know,

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Speaker 1: I am just dealing with all of that right now.

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Speaker 1: We just got out of the hospital. So but on

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Speaker 1: the road to recovery. So it's Friday.

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Speaker 2: Good things to come. We're going to see Michael Rappaport tonight.

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Speaker 1: I am not going.

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Speaker 2: You're not you know, We're gonna got cans.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even sleep last night because I stayed in

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Speaker 1: the bed with Aiden. You did yet to help him,

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Speaker 1: So no, I am not going. But maybe i'll see

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Speaker 1: him when he comes back to Jersey, because he's coming

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Speaker 1: back into me.

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Speaker 2: He's coming. Well, that's I think that's he's going to

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Speaker 2: speak on Israel. This is more of his comedy show.

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Speaker 2: But oh okay, yeah, we're excited to go on with

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Speaker 2: some friends. We love us some Michael Rappaport.

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Speaker 1: Ah, so fun. Well, I'll live vicariously through you. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting a cat tomorrow. I'm so excited. So I

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Speaker 1: got it tonight. My my Friday night activity is going

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Speaker 1: to pet coat to pick up cat stuff.

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Speaker 2: All right, I.

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Speaker 1: Haven't had a pet since I'm twelve years old.

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Speaker 2: I keep telling you can take one of these, but

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Speaker 2: I can't seem to like unload them on anybody. But

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Speaker 2: you have one cat. I have two cats, Jack, you

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Speaker 2: have two black cats.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was the same cat walking around here.

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's like Halloween in here. My kids suckered me

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Speaker 2: at COVID. Oh they're cute, They're not cute. Moving on,

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Speaker 2: go ahead, we have an exciting topic.

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Speaker 1: We do. I love this topic by way, very strong

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Speaker 1: feelings about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. So I have not seen Me and

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Speaker 2: Girls of the movie. Have you the original? Of course

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Speaker 2: I've seen you. Oh I haven't seen the Rien now,

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Speaker 2: so I haven't either. But everybody's talking about it. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: So Jackie and I thought it was a great time

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Speaker 2: to talk about real mean girls.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and like not only mean girls in high school,

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Speaker 1: middle school, middle school mean girls might be worse, by

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Speaker 1: the way, but not only that age group, but like

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Speaker 1: mean women, like women are really mean to each other something.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And we both signed up for show where it's

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Speaker 2: a lot of times not always but rewarded and I

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Speaker 2: think people like get off on it, right, and I'm not.

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Speaker 2: I joined that show, So this is not it's not

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Speaker 2: even judgment. It's really more like an observation that thinking

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Speaker 2: it through and thinking about especially the way that since

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Speaker 2: I've joined, I've taken a lot of mean social media

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Speaker 2: comments and I've been you know, we we've all sort

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Speaker 2: of taken We take digs at each other, and sometimes

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Speaker 2: it's fun and sometimes it's shady, and sometimes it's hurtful

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Speaker 2: and mean. And I don't know, like, is there a

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Speaker 2: line not just in reality television, but also jack and

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Speaker 2: I were talking about just in terms of like everyday

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Speaker 2: lives as women living in suburbia, and there's always sort

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Speaker 2: of like this. It seems like there's this pecking order

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Speaker 2: and the mean girls always on top.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean do you know where I see it

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Speaker 1: the most is on like these Facebook mom groups that

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Speaker 1: I'm a part of. If you say something and you

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Speaker 1: have like there's one little iota of something wrong with

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Speaker 1: what you say, the other moms jump all over you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like they just attack you and tell you everything you're

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Speaker 1: doing wrong. And you know, in Suburbia, what I find

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Speaker 1: is not so much outright meanness.

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Speaker 2: It's just that that need to be snarky, wanky, one up.

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Speaker 1: Cooky, exclusive, that need to look right through people who

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Speaker 1: are not in your circle. That doesn't go away.

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Speaker 2: So I think, well, let's talk about housewives. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: there it because I feel like that's you know, the

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Speaker 2: Housewives's sort of like a microcosm of real life, right,

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Speaker 2: and that is definitely part of it, that pecking order.

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Speaker 2: But specifically, we have just watched and the reunion of

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Speaker 2: Salt Lake City, Yes, so you know, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of talk of the Monica of it all. I actually

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Speaker 2: heard Tamra and Teddy talking about Monica and they sort

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Speaker 2: of I think they feel like she has been victimized

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Speaker 2: a little bit. When I watched the entirety of the season,

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Speaker 2: I definitely got a mean girl vibe, like to say

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Speaker 2: the least.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean she fought dirty, like when she would

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Speaker 1: say things, when she would insult people or come back

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Speaker 1: at people. It was very mean things about their appearance,

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Speaker 1: about she would call Lisa Barlowe old, she would talk

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Speaker 1: about her her wrinkles. I mean she was she just

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Speaker 1: went low.

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Speaker 2: Oh listen, And that's very common in housewives culture. But

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Speaker 2: for me, it was the idea that when she was

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Speaker 2: doing the Reality of Ante's, when she was in charge

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Speaker 2: of that page and then finding out like the ways

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Speaker 2: in which they attacked the other women and then they mentioned,

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Speaker 2: you know, they went after their kids. I think Whitney

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Speaker 2: was saying, how and that's we all know as mothers,

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Speaker 2: that's the absolute worst. So I don't know she claims

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Speaker 2: it was all about Jen. It sounded to me like

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Speaker 2: she was attacking every women and doing it in a

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Speaker 2: way that's so upsetting, I think for us, because there's

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Speaker 2: so much anonymous trolling to think that you're working with

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Speaker 2: someone on a daily or on a daily on you

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Speaker 2: know whatever throughout a season that was doing that anonymous cowardly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, where she was even invested in the show. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's one thing to get on the show and be

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Speaker 1: Lisa Rena okay, and I have nothing against Lisa Renna,

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Speaker 1: but she was a villain. Or Erica Jane. I don't

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Speaker 1: really know her. I mean i've met her, but she's

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Speaker 1: a villa in my eyes. They are just they're cold

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Speaker 1: and they have no problem like cutting you to the bone, right.

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Speaker 1: But Monica, she wasn't on the show when she was

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Speaker 1: actively trying to take people down and insult them. And

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Speaker 1: I always say, like, there are times when I dislike

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Speaker 1: people and I like wanted, you know, I would like

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Speaker 1: to see, you know, something bad happen. Let's say, right,

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Speaker 1: nothing too bad. But I would never consider being one

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Speaker 1: of these people who sits behind a computer screen and

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Speaker 1: goes after people online who I don't know. I have

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Speaker 1: never in my life. I mean I've only been on

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Speaker 1: the show six years and Instagram's been around a lot

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Speaker 1: longer than that. I never left a nasty comment on

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Speaker 1: somebody's page of celebrities page or anyone's page.

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Speaker 2: I've definitely wanted to, right, but I've never done it

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Speaker 2: because it's just it was just a little too mean,

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Speaker 2: especially if I didn't know somebody.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've never done that, so to be that

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Speaker 1: type a person who could be so outrightly mean. It just.

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Speaker 2: It.

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Speaker 1: I just don't understand that.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I've think on Housewives, a lot of

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Speaker 2: the women will call that confidence and call it you know,

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Speaker 2: it's under this guise of honesty. I'm just honest. But

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Speaker 2: you know, I think there's certain well we know that

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Speaker 2: there's a difference, right between honesty and being mean.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but so what happens if you take a person

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Speaker 1: like Monica or Lisa or Erica and then you learn

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Speaker 1: about their past and why they might be snarky?

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Speaker 2: Does that mean like Monica and her mom? Right, so

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Speaker 2: obviously they say what hurt people? Hurt people. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: is that always an excuse. I can tell you that

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Speaker 2: I had, we all have had very difficult and challenging lives,

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Speaker 2: because that's just the nature I think of life and childhood.

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Speaker 2: And but at some point you become an adult and

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Speaker 2: you take responsibility, You take responsibility for who you are

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Speaker 2: and what you're saying. So it was, Yeah, it was

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Speaker 2: hard to watch Monica and her mom. That dynamic is

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Speaker 2: definitely a difficult one. Does that excuse Monica's meanness? Not really?

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Speaker 2: Not to me?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of course not. No, I know many people who

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Speaker 1: have been through Listen. My mother came over here and impoverished.

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Speaker 1: Her family was Holocaust survivors, so you know her parents

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Speaker 1: had to like they were in a refugee camp in Siberia.

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Speaker 1: They've never been mean people ever, so I don't It's

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Speaker 1: not an excuse for me, and I actually can't really

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Speaker 1: relate to the people. I don't know why any house

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Speaker 1: so ife would want to be a villain.

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Speaker 2: What is that? I think it's again and no judgment

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Speaker 2: because we're on the show, so we don't have any

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Speaker 2: for judgment here, right, But I think that wanting to

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Speaker 2: be relevant is tired, so tired of that word and

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Speaker 2: that expression, but it definitely drives all of us, right

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Speaker 2: and how to get there. Sometimes on these shows it is,

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Speaker 2: I think, to be the villain. But I feel like, like,

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Speaker 2: for instance, I actually really love Erica Jane, but in

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Speaker 2: one of the latest episodes of Beverly Hills, she was

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Speaker 2: going at it with the new Richard's and I don't

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Speaker 2: blame her. Denise came in looking for blood too, I

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Speaker 2: guess the first scene, and then there was another scene

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Speaker 2: that they were in and it escalated. Erica stayed very calm,

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Speaker 2: but Denise was going after the way she had been

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Speaker 2: treated by Erica, and I think that was really what

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Speaker 2: she wanted to talk about and to pin her down

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Speaker 2: and say you are horrible to me, Say you're sorry,

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Speaker 2: admit it. And then it turned into uron what is

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Speaker 2: it called OnlyFans? And so is your daughter? So it

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Speaker 2: went from definitely being Denise came in and started it.

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Speaker 2: She definitely started arguing first, but then it dipped to

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Speaker 2: a different level that was just mean, and Denise said it,

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Speaker 2: you're a mean woman? Is Erica a mean woman? I

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Speaker 2: actually really like Erica. I think she can do mean

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Speaker 2: things like all of us can. But at that point

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Speaker 2: I felt like that was going, especially with Denise's daughter,

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Speaker 2: that was below the belt. Now we're just playing dirty

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Speaker 2: and mean, right. I think I.

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Speaker 1: Think eric is mean. I do. I think something's little

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Speaker 1: mean too. I think Beverly Hills, of all the shows,

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Speaker 1: has the most mean girls. I really do. And it's

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Speaker 1: not to say I don't like I mean, I've met

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Speaker 1: them all and they're pleasant to me, but I think

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Speaker 1: on the show they're cold.

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Speaker 2: Well, okay, so listen, let's let's talk about this in

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Speaker 2: terms of us, because they have mean. I think that

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Speaker 2: everybody does mean things. It's capable of mean things, capable

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Speaker 2: of saying and thinking mean things, right, It's I think

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Speaker 2: there are extremes. So for myself, I think mean things.

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Speaker 2: When I first got when I first got on The Housewives,

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Speaker 2: the producer said to me, you know, your job is

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Speaker 2: to say what you're thinking. And that's really you know,

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Speaker 2: the crux of being a housewife is as opposed to

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Speaker 2: when you're in you know, normal life, you can think

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Speaker 2: nasty things and you don't say them. I think nasty things.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that's why I'm never going to be a housewife,

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Speaker 2: and I don't always say them. I think that there's

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Speaker 2: a difference, right I am. I can definitely have a

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Speaker 2: lot of mean thoughts, a lot of them, and I

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Speaker 2: gossip like a mean girl, saying something mean and hurtful

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Speaker 2: to someone though I don't think I'm really as capable

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Speaker 2: of that as someone else. That doesn't make me better

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Speaker 2: or worse because I'm thinking mean shit in my head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know there are times on the show and

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Speaker 1: I have said something that is uncharacteristically mean, and it

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Speaker 1: actually I had to like.

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Speaker 2: Psych myself up to get to that place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, where I'm like, yeah, where I had the thought,

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Speaker 1: and then I was like, is this too mean for

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Speaker 1: me to say?

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Speaker 2: Well, the question is how does it hit you afterwards?

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Speaker 2: Because I know, of course I have said mean things

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Speaker 2: in my lifetime and it all feels really good in

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Speaker 2: the moment. Right You're pissed, you really don't like this person.

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Speaker 2: You want to somehow bring them down. It works, you

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Speaker 2: say the exact mean thing at the right time. The

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Speaker 2: problem is, I feel like it always comes back. So,

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Speaker 2: for instance, as soon as you see that person's vulnerability,

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Speaker 2: you see that you've actually really upset someone, you see

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Speaker 2: the hurt in their eyes, then you're like, I am

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Speaker 2: such an asshole. I mean, it doesn't always happen that way,

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Speaker 2: but for me, you know, when I've actually hurt someone,

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Speaker 2: no matter how good it feels in the moment, it

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Speaker 2: really sucks when you realize what you've done. I don't

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Speaker 2: have that.

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Speaker 1: Experience on the show. I feel like when people have

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Speaker 1: said really mean things to me, or I have said

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Speaker 1: something really mean to somebody else, it just turns into

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Speaker 1: a back and forth, really mean girl kind of fight.

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Speaker 1: It never and the winner is the person who the

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Speaker 1: audience thinks. Scott in the better barbes, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying. So you keep going and you keep trying

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Speaker 1: to dig deeper. It's a really, you know, Housewives is

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Speaker 1: a really. It's it's tough like that, Like the fights

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Speaker 1: get so out of hand sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they do have to keep going.

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Speaker 1: Lower and lower.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. And as you know, listen, I've was

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Speaker 2: a viewer way longer than you were, and there were

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Speaker 2: times where I didn't like a member of the cast

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Speaker 2: as a viewer, right, and I really enjoyed seeing whoever

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Speaker 2: she was get put in our place. Right. There's like

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Speaker 2: a mean girl thing I think inside all of us.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that's also part of why the show is so popular.

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Speaker 2: It's also a matter of seeing women who are you know,

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Speaker 2: who seem to be perfect on the surface, with perfect lives,

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Speaker 2: and that mean girl in us wants to see them

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Speaker 2: taking down a notch. And it's not something that I

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Speaker 2: am proud to admit, but I do think it's human.

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Speaker 2: I think all of us have it the whise I

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Speaker 2: personally think, and we're going to talk to someone who's

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Speaker 2: way in the know, but I think it comes out

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Speaker 2: of insecurity. I'm jealousy.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I don't know about that.

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Speaker 1: What have you ever done anything mean?

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Speaker 2: Onh I'm trying to think on the show. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: don't think you have. Yes, I have, I have. I

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Speaker 2: mean the Mazzarella you ate that that was not me? Yeah, right,

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Speaker 2: I tore it abute that must well. No, but I mean,

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Speaker 2: like in confessionals, I've said some snarky things mean. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I never I haven't yet tried to ruin anyone's life.

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Speaker 1: No, but I have said.

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Speaker 2: Snarky, nasty little things. I don't know, is there a

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Speaker 2: difference between snarky and mean?

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Speaker 1: It can cross the line. I think, Yeah, what about

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Speaker 1: growing up? Like, what's your experience of meaning?

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Speaker 2: No? Yeah, well I was not a mean girl growing up,

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Speaker 2: but I will tell you that like in junior high,

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Speaker 2: we're saying that's sometimes that's the hardest r Yeah, Alexis

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Speaker 2: is in junior high. You can't do it now. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I was called so my main name is gutterman, and

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Speaker 2: I was called literally throughout all three years of junior

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Speaker 2: high or whatever, gutterface. I answered to it, and people

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Speaker 2: used to make no and like, I just remember hating

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Speaker 2: it so much. It was so mean, and kids in

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Speaker 2: groups because I had moved to Texas from Long Island,

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Speaker 2: and I was just an outsider and having people laugh

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Speaker 2: at me and having no one to sit with at

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Speaker 2: the lunch table and that kind of mean not just

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Speaker 2: not just the girls, even right, the boys too. So

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Speaker 2: I've definitely been as a young person, I've had I've

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Speaker 2: experienced that whole mean girl, you know attitude from from classmates.

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Speaker 2: But it's interesting because so have my kids, so have yours.

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Speaker 2: I think so have most kids. When it happens to

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Speaker 2: your kid, it's a different thing that I want with. Like,

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Speaker 2: I remember, my kids are now obviously they're adults now,

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Speaker 2: but I have I hold a grudge towards kids in

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Speaker 2: my neighborhood that have been mean to my kids, and

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Speaker 2: it will I will never let it go. Really, Oh

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Speaker 2: my god. I mean I try. I don't. I'm not

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Speaker 2: driving by their house and you know, throwing rocks, but

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Speaker 2: I I see those kids that were mean to my kids,

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Speaker 2: and my kids don't even remember, right, and I have it.

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Speaker 2: It will it will torment me. I'll wake up at

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Speaker 2: nights and times and think about something that some kid

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Speaker 2: did to my son that made him cry, and I

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Speaker 2: just get enraged.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I just I can see now in

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Speaker 1: my daughter's friend groups who the mean girls are, and

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Speaker 1: I just wonder, I wonder if they'll stay that way.

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Speaker 1: Like she had a fight with one member of her

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Speaker 1: like massive friend group and that night it so about

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Speaker 1: two weeks ago, that friend sent to everybody a group

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Speaker 1: text saying Alexis is out of the group. And everything

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Speaker 1: ended up working out and it was fine. But what

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Speaker 1: is that inclination to turn everyone against the one girl

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Speaker 1: that you don't like? It's And I wonder if the

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Speaker 1: mean girls then if they grow up to be mean women,

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Speaker 1: because I do know mean women. There are plenty, and

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Speaker 1: they'll look right through you. They still want to be

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Speaker 1: the queen bees. Like that doesn't go away when you're

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Speaker 1: I'm almost fifty, you're in your fifties.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it does a lot. I hope I think that.

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Speaker 1: No, I think for a lot of people, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: go away. You're still looking to breathe the prom queen

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Speaker 1: when you're fifty years old.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I know that I'm such a different thankfully, thank

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Speaker 2: you to my doctor, my psychiatrist. But I'm a different

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Speaker 2: woman than I was, maybe not in terms of I

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Speaker 2: was not really a mean girl. I'm not the insecure

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Speaker 2: person I was. That has changed. I was probably a

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Speaker 2: lot more jealous of people when I was younger. That

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Speaker 2: has changed. Hopefully people can actually change, some can't. You're right.

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Speaker 2: But it's interesting because as a mom, one of the

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Speaker 2: most important things that I wanted to install in my

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Speaker 2: kids was kindness. I mean, that was huge. And I

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Speaker 2: guess the times that I've even had an inclination that

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Speaker 2: one of my kids was being mean, I jumped on

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Speaker 2: it hard. Do all moms maybe not? Maybe? Do you?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want I never wanted. Nobody wants

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Speaker 2: who wants mean kids? But I was always very sensitive

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Speaker 2: to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I was very sensitive to it because

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Speaker 1: people were very, very mean. I could handle people being

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Speaker 1: mean to me, I couldn't handle them being mean to

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Speaker 1: my brother. So I have a handlecalf brother, and he

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Speaker 1: was held back a year. He's only a year older

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Speaker 1: than me, but he was held back a year. So

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Speaker 1: when we moved and we started high school, we started together,

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Speaker 1: so everyone thought we were twins. And people at my

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Speaker 1: new school, I mean, they were horrific to me, but

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Speaker 1: they were so mean to my brother. Not everybody, but

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Speaker 1: what they did to me I could handle. I was

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Speaker 1: basically ignored. It was like I wasn't even there and

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Speaker 1: I could handle it. But watching them go out of

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Speaker 1: their way to embarrassing my brother.

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Speaker 2: I remember that chapter in your book.

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Speaker 1: Was yeah, I wrote about this because it was I mean,

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Speaker 1: there was one incident and I write about this in

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Speaker 1: my book where a bunch of kids flushed his shoes

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Speaker 1: down the toilet and I can't even talk about it

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Speaker 1: with that crying. And I that day, like I went,

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Speaker 1: I watched him walk around the school with socks on,

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Speaker 1: and I went into the bathroom and I just I

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Speaker 1: was so broken and I just like bent down and cried,

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Speaker 1: and I just wondered, how you can be that person

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Speaker 1: who is mean to somebody who's handicapped, is just beyond it.

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Speaker 1: It's one thing to be snarky, but that's another level.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's the type of person that I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't know. I mean, again, thankfully we

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Speaker 2: have someone coming on who can help us understand it.

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Speaker 2: But I definitely I think to my do think to

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Speaker 2: myself sometimes in terms of housewives, it's we're rewarding meanness.

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Speaker 2: And it's also again, I loved being a viewer for

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Speaker 2: years and years and years. I mean during COVID it

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Speaker 2: got me through. I was like, it was just so

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Speaker 2: it is so much fun to watch. Snarky and shady

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Speaker 2: is hilarious and fun to watch. When it crosses a line,

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Speaker 2: which it oftentimes does and gets really dark, then it

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Speaker 2: becomes uncomfortable. But yeah, there's something about also when you're

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Speaker 2: funny and you're narky and shady. But you know, I

390
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 2: wonder once you really hurt someone right and like change

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00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,959
Speaker 2: their lives somehow, that cannot be easy to live with.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it depends who you are. I mean,

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Speaker 1: but that's getting back to the whole Monica of it.

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Speaker 1: You know, as a viewer of Salt Lake City, I

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Speaker 1: love Salt Lake City. I forget that I'm on a

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Speaker 1: show when I watched Salt Lake City too, so people,

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Speaker 1: you know, I consider the question like should Monica come back? Right,

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Speaker 1: And obviously at this point we all know that she's

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Speaker 1: not coming back. But I would love to see Monica

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Speaker 1: back because she was so entertaining and this whole story

401
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Speaker 1: is so ridiculous and entertaining. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: I'm on one of these shows and I have to

403
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Speaker 1: think about, Like, would I want to be around somebody

404
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Speaker 1: who would draw something page like that?

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Speaker 2: No, sneaky, so sneaky, It's not even it wasn't sneaky

406
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Speaker 2: at the time. I mean, lots of people have troll pages,

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Speaker 2: troll accounts, whatever it's called. I just knowing it, even

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Speaker 2: if she had been upfront about it, knowing that one

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Speaker 2: of my castmates had a one time run a page

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Speaker 2: that got off on tearing apart you know, housewives and

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Speaker 2: their lives and there maybe making fun. I think of

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Speaker 2: their kids, and you know, I get the gen Shaw

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Speaker 2: of it, and I get I don't know exactly what

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Speaker 2: happened between Monica and Jen, but I get that there

415
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 2: was a revenge factor in there, and I followed the page.

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Speaker 2: But from what the women said, there was trolling of

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Speaker 2: them as well. It wasn't just a gen Shaw thing.

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Speaker 2: That would be a hard pill for me to swallow

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Speaker 2: to then like work with someone and trust them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean as a viewer, like you were saying,

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Speaker 1: it's fun to watch these people be like villains, right,

422
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Speaker 1: it was fun to watch what Monica did, But I

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Speaker 1: put myself in their shoes, and like, I know the

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Speaker 1: women on that cast, and I love them.

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Speaker 2: I would.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 2: By the way, lots and lots of people love Monica,

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Speaker 2: lots and lots for.

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Speaker 1: That reason, because you like to watch a villain because

430
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Speaker 1: there it's interesting.

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00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 2: I know, and I know that, but they iice it up.

432
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 2: They also understand her. I mean, listen, we don't all

433
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 2: have to agree. Some people, you know, think that she

434
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 2: was like Delta nasty hand by having to you know,

435
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 2: buy I don't know, was she fired, did you quit?

436
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 2: Whatever it was, a lot of people don't think that

437
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,400
Speaker 2: that's fair. So I don't know. I have a very

438
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 2: hard time working with someone that ran a troll account.

439
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I agree, I understand why they all want

440
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,439
Speaker 1: her off. And that's the problem with these shows. If

441
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 1: you have no friends left, and you have no allies,

442
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 1: you can't be part of the friend group, right, yeah,

443
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 1: or so, I haven't seen the remake of Mean Girls, right,

444
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: But you think of all these movies from like the

445
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 1: nineties and or the eighties or even two thousands, and

446
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 1: like when there was a mean Girl. She isn't like

447
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 1: the gross chick with no friends Rachel McAdams. She was

448
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: the beautiful right she was Rachel McAdams, or she was

449
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 1: the prom queen, and she's all that right. She was always.

450
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 2: Beautiful, everybody wanted to be friends with everyone's wanted a girl,

451
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 2: and yet everybody wanted to be close to her.

452
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 1: So does that perpetuate the idea that being mean is

453
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: an attribute, it's something that only the most beautiful and

454
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: the most self confident women girls?

455
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 2: Well, I think a lot of being girls that are

456
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 2: not mean, women that are not necessarily beautiful. They're more

457
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,199
Speaker 2: sort of just miserable. But yes, I mean in high school,

458
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 2: like in terms of being in cliques and who's cool

459
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 2: and who's not. Is it cool to be mean? I

460
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: really hope so once you know, we get older, it's not.

461
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 2: But does it? Is it? Yes? I mean I've also

462
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 2: I live Listen, I live in the burbs and in

463
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 2: a suburb where all the kids go to the same

464
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 2: school and all the moms are at kiss and drop

465
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 2: and we all go to back to school night and

466
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 2: we all are invited to the same parties, And yeah,

467
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 2: it definitely exists. There's drama, like we have not all

468
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 2: grown out of it. There's drama, there's pettybs. There is

469
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: mean girl behavior for sure, unfortunately.

470
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: And men don't do that. To each other. I mean

471
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: I know that like if Evan gets in a fight

472
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: with someone or like an argument, or he like loses

473
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:34,360
Speaker 1: his taste for somebody, he'll distance. But men don't gossip

474
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: about each other. I never hear him on the phone gossiping.

475
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 2: Well, Jeff doesn't really get on the phone in bs

476
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 2: with a lot of men. I mean, he has male friends,

477
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: but they're not they're not chit chatting at eight thirty

478
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 2: in the morning, like.

479
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: You know, right, But even with that, like he doesn't

480
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 1: bad mouth people the way that women do.

481
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 2: You know what, can I just tell this quick story? Yeah,

482
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: So Jeff and I were engaged about to be married,

483
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: and the rabbi who married us was actually a friend

484
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 2: of mine, but he was interviewing us for all intents

485
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 2: and purposes, just getting to know us and getting to

486
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 2: know Jeff a little bit better. And he asked me,

487
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 2: it's so funny, I haven't thought about this in so long,

488
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: but he asked me something that I really loved about

489
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: Jeff Wessler. And I said, you know what strikes me

490
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 2: is like sometimes like I'll say something nasty about somebody

491
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: or not just gossipy, but just mean, and he'll go

492
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 2: that's not nice. Just those three words. He'll go, that's

493
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 2: not nice, and I'm thinking, well, the fuck cares about nice,

494
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: I'm talking to you. But I remember thinking, like, for

495
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 2: some reason, it used to And I remember saying that

496
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 2: to Barry, the rabbi who married us. And it was

497
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 2: a weird thing to pick out of the many things

498
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 2: that I loved about Jeff, But I just loved that

499
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: that was part of his character, you know, like he

500
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 2: wasn't going to enjoy hearing me be a mean girl.

501
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: Now having said that, Jeff watches now he's like obsessed

502
00:25:55,320 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: with everything housewives and he also man's not perfect and

503
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 2: he laughs along with the rest of us. But you know,

504
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 2: I was always like, what do you mean nice? What

505
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,199
Speaker 2: are you talking about? Like the person's not here, Why

506
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 2: don't have to be nice?

507
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Evan, Evan just doesn't really engage. Like if I

508
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: try to talk to him about people, he'll be like,

509
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,479
Speaker 1: oh really, Like he doesn't give me anything back. He

510
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 1: doesn't really enjoy gossiping. He doesn't. He's not mean. He's

511
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: really really nice. He makes me feel mean.

512
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 3: But not.

513
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 2: Jeff is definitely not mean. I don't think he's ever

514
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: had a real confrontation with the guy really or no,

515
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 2: not a man and not a woman. Not really, he's

516
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 2: not He's really mean when he's behind the wheel, he

517
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 2: is a what are they called? Like he has road rage?

518
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Well I have a very bad road

519
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: rage story. I don't think we have time for it today,

520
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: but on another episode I'm going to tell you it is.

521
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: It was one of the scariest things that's ever happened

522
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: to me in my whole life. I'm convinced that I

523
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: could have died that night.

524
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, listen, that's like, isn't it sort of

525
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: like internet trolling? Behind a wheel? They can't hear you.

526
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: Oh man, But Jeff.

527
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 2: Goes nuts, Like if you cut Jeff fessel Off, you're

528
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 2: not going to know you did, because Jeff isn't going

529
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 2: to drive up and try to or try to hit

530
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: the back of your car, but he is going to

531
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 2: have words for you.

532
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, well he should watch out because PSA, there are

533
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: crazy people on the road who will actually kill you.

534
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: And there are crazy people on reality televisions.

535
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: There are actually a lot of crazy people. I want

536
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: to talk about that. Where's Melissa? I want to talk

537
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,959
Speaker 1: about all the crazy people on reality television. So who

538
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: do you think is the meanest Jeff in history?

539
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: In history? History, who is the meanest housewife in history?

540
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 2: I mean, there've been so I.

541
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: Think Ramona has said the mean stuff.

542
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: Ramona, it could be definitely could be mean.

543
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: But yeah.

544
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 2: The thing is about also about Romona is she's also endearing.

545
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: Like there's something about her that's so kooky, Like you're.

546
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: Like, is she yeah, No, she's definitely cooky.

547
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 3: You know.

548
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 1: I think that there's I'm not sure that there's a

549
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: difference between mean and cold in my eyes, you know,

550
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: like if you're really cold and you shut people out

551
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: and you act better than I consider that mean.

552
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 2: I mean, there's all different ways to be mean, it's true,

553
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: but Ramona will put her mean. The thing is, I

554
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: mean I remember that walk across the bridge that she

555
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: did with Bethany. Oh yeah. The thing is you were

556
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: so it was so outrageous what she was saying. I

557
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: remember in the moment, it was like whoa, whoa, whoa,

558
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 2: And I think Bethany started crying at one point, and

559
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 2: You're like, wow, what was she saying?

560
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: You remind us?

561
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: So think about that's why you'll never get married, or

562
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 2: that's oh yes, And I remember just years ago watching

563
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 2: it and thinking, wow, that is mean. But then I know,

564
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: you know, watching Romona throughout the years, I think she's

565
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 2: just I want to give her that. She's so kooky,

566
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 2: like she does like things. I will think something like that.

567
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,719
Speaker 2: I just won't say it, I know, but wife, right,

568
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 2: I'll think mean things like that all the time. Anyway,

569
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: I think that our guest is here.

570
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 1: So guys, we have Melissa right. She is known on

571
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: Instagram as your bitch Therapist. She's amazing, so well spoken

572
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: and knows every little thing about housewives. So she's a therapist,

573
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: a brava holic. After many years and two degrees and

574
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:19,959
Speaker 1: clinical practice, she got her license and she has just

575
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: been working in this area for so long. She's a

576
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: cancer survivor and she had she.

577
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: Had a varying cancer when she's very young.

578
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: Yes, I think she she is managing chronic Yeah, but

579
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: she is amazing. She used a self described psychology nerd,

580
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: and she thinks that therapy is magic and so do I.

581
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: And she is just so good at analyzing the housewives.

582
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: We need your help.

583
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: Melissa. Hi, Hi, Melissa, Hi, welcome. Hi.

584
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 3: We're so nice to see you.

585
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: Bo you two, thank you so much for joining us.

586
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: We need your help.

587
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: I mean, there is no other therapist that that can

588
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: analyze the housewives like you can, but also like women

589
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: in general.

590
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 3: Yes, and ladies, I am prepared with the capital P.

591
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 3: So I am ready.

592
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: All right, Jen, go for it, baby.

593
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 2: Well you know, so, Melissa, we're talking, as you know,

594
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: about the meanness that unfortunately it does not just you know,

595
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: perpetuate itself in the house in the housewives world, but

596
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: you know, for young kids and even now we know

597
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: mean girls, and you know, we also have mean inside

598
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: of us. I know that I do. There are different

599
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: degrees of it, but maybe give us your take on

600
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 2: you know, what is driving a mean girl?

601
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: Like, what's driving at what age? Are you thinking?

602
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 2: Any any let's start.

603
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: Let's start with the housewives. Okay, why do you think

604
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: that meanness is rewarded on the housewives? And why would

605
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: a housewife want to be a villain?

606
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 3: Okay, so meanness is definitely rewarded. I think we've seen that.

607
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: Excuse me, I think we've seen that time and time

608
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: again on housewives. And I mean, look at what just

609
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 3: kind of happened with Monica and Salt Lake and that

610
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 3: whole thing. And so I think that sometimes, and I'm

611
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: this might surprise you to hear this, but what makes

612
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 3: a mean girl when we're young versus when we're older.

613
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 3: It really isn't different. Yeah, it's the same stuff. It's

614
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 3: just if you're a mean girl when you're younger and

615
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: you have certain qualities and characteristics, like for example, no

616
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 3: matter the age, the reasons are power and control. People

617
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 3: want power and control over the narrative, the friendship, the

618
00:31:54,720 --> 00:32:01,719
Speaker 3: social you know, relationship. Usually mean girls that have sincerely

619
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 3: a lack of self esteem, right, they kind of you know,

620
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 3: there's a bravado that people might put forth, but in

621
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 3: reality there's a real lack of self esteem and self confidence.

622
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 3: And the one thing I was doing a little bit

623
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 3: of research, you know, preparing for this, and there's an

624
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 3: expert in the field of bullying. Her name is Rosalind Wiseman,

625
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 3: and she actually her book Queen Bees and Wannabes was

626
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 3: the templan.

627
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: Girl Jerkie's Night. Yeah I know that.

628
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is so I think. And if you watch

629
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: Me and Girls and have read the book, it's wild

630
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: how mean Girls is really like an educational documentary on

631
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 3: what it is truly. I mean, it's a wonderful movie.

632
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: It's super funny, it's just really well done.

633
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 2: So the mean girl gets hers in the end, which

634
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 2: is kind of the joy of it.

635
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 3: Right, always, always, because the thing with this is you

636
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 3: can can't outrun the toxic stuff within that leads to

637
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: that behavior unless you really want to get some help

638
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 3: around it. Right, people can change, but only if they

639
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 3: want to. And so back to your question, Jackie, if

640
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 3: the housewives are getting rewarded for being villains, why would

641
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: they change?

642
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 2: Well, Melissa, let me ask you this, Why do we

643
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 2: as a society and me personally like watching it? What

644
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 2: is it about us that enjoys watching the villains and

645
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: and you know, the Mean Girls?

646
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 3: I think two answers to that. One is that it

647
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 3: is entertaining, because, I mean, Mean Girls was one of

648
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 3: the most amazing movies to ever be made. It was

649
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,959
Speaker 3: so entertaining, it was so funny. And I think that,

650
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 3: you know, there is just a part of our human

651
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 3: psyche that we love drama clearly I do.

652
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: Is that. Okay? Is that healthy for us?

653
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 3: Well? Okay, yes and no. So to answer your question, Jen,

654
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 3: is that to me in my clinical practice, all things

655
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 3: exist on a spectrum. Okay, so on a spectrum over

656
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: here is just kind of the general you know, some

657
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 3: slight behavior, so maybe nasty comments, things like that, and

658
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 3: then as you progress to the other side of the spectrum,

659
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 3: that's when the really kind of abusive, inappropriate stuff happens.

660
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: And as a therapist, one thing I always like to

661
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 3: say is that all of us have good and bad qualities.

662
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 3: We all do, and I think we all have a

663
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 3: little bit of that mean girl in it.

664
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 2: Yes, my psychiatrist is that all the time. And it's

665
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 2: like so helpful when I feel guilty for having said

666
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: something and it, you know, badly about maybe having hurt someone. Unfortunately,

667
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 2: it is part of being human, you.

668
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: Know, Melissa what it is more for me, it is less,

669
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: it's less of this need to like, you know, you

670
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: take a Ramona right where there's no filter. We were

671
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: just talking about this, and like the things that come

672
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: out of her mouth sometimes are just so mean. For me,

673
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say stuff like that on a regular basis.

674
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: But if I don't like somebody or someone does something

675
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: to me, I get this feeling where I want revenge

676
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: and I want to destroy them and life, I think, right,

677
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: But I have to actively shut that off and put

678
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: it out of my mind because getting revenge is all

679
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: that I'll think about, you know. And I wonder do

680
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: you think, like the proliferate like Housewives is so big?

681
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: Now do you think that watching the behavior of Housewives

682
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: on the show, does that bleed out into real life?

683
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: Do people start to think that it's better to behave

684
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: like that? Or Okay, what do you think?

685
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Because what happens is this brings into the discussion

686
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 3: parasocial relationships. So parasolctural relationships are relationships that folks think

687
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 3: they have with a celebrity or someone they admire and

688
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 3: see on TV, but they don't really have a relationship.

689
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 3: And so sometimes fans if they feel they have a

690
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 3: parasocial relationship, like for example, there are people who think

691
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 3: they have relationships with you two, and they don't you know,

692
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 3: they've seen you on TV, but they don't really know you.

693
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 3: So if someone respects you and honors you and admires

694
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 3: you and they see things happening on TV, if the

695
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,800
Speaker 3: watcher doesn't have that sounded like creepy like the watcher,

696
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 3: If the person taking in that behavior, if they don't

697
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,240
Speaker 3: have enough self esteem and self worth to say, Okay,

698
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 3: this is entertaining, but this isn't necessarily something I'd like

699
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 3: to emulate. Then yes, that emulation of behavior happens. But

700
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,919
Speaker 3: one important thing I did want to note is that

701
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 3: I believe that our society, there's a social conditioning that

702
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 3: happens with women where we are conditioned to be nice

703
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 3: and to avoid conflict at all costs. And so what

704
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 3: happens is back to your point, Jackie, is that.

705
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: Right.

706
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 3: But but people pleasers who have emotions like oh my gosh,

707
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 3: I'm so angry, I'm not able to show this, so

708
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 3: that emotion has to go somewhere. And so that's where

709
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 3: some in the thoughts of revenge and things like that.

710
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 3: It's all normal. It's normal. I mean that happens to

711
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 3: me too. It's just do you have the ability, like

712
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 3: you said, Jackie, to stop yourself and say, okay, it's

713
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: okay to have this fantasy of revenge. It's okay to

714
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 3: have that, but knowing that my behavior needs to align

715
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 3: with my ultimate morals, values, and ethics.

716
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: I love that. Let me let me ask you a

717
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: million dollar question. I get a lot of people comments.

718
00:37:54,760 --> 00:38:00,479
Speaker 1: Sometimes I read the comments sometimes and you get why

719
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: can't we just watch women being friends and having a

720
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: good time. Would anybody watch that show? Wod people watch

721
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: that show? I don't think so.

722
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 3: Well, Okay, here's my thought because sometimes I am one

723
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 3: of those people, because sometimes for me, I'm a very

724
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 3: sensitive soul, and when I watch like the whole stuff

725
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 3: that happened with Salt Lake recently, it actually just makes

726
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 3: me feel iggy. But I do love housewives, so I

727
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,760
Speaker 3: feel that, you know, I'm going to use Real Housewives

728
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 3: of Orange County season one. Okay, they didn't have glam.

729
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 3: They wore the craziest outfits. They went to tennis and

730
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 3: lunch and it did really well. Now, all things need

731
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 3: to evolve, right, I think anything, people shows, what have you,

732
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 3: everything has an evolution. Nothing can stay the same. But

733
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 3: I almost think that there's been an over correction in

734
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 3: some franchise, not all. There are some franchises franchises I

735
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 3: think that do it well and then others that you

736
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 3: can almost tell that people are nervous about. In my opinion, well,

737
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 3: if I don't bring the heat, yeah, we're gonna get canceled.

738
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 3: If I don't bring the heat, am I going to

739
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 3: not be asked? Back right. Yes, So I do think

740
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 3: that there has become a toxic level to what we

741
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 3: all think we need, and some of that, I'm going

742
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 3: to be honest, is perpetuated by Bravo. I do believe that. Well,

743
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 3: I do believe that.

744
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 2: You know, I think about even the Anne Marie of

745
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 2: it all and first time housewife, and I totally get

746
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 2: that pressure she felt to go in there and you know,

747
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: have some have some conflict, but she got so slammed.

748
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 2: People have said a lot worse on housewives. You know,

749
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: I wonder is there a difference between being shady and

750
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 2: being mean? I mean talking about Sutton's esophagus didn't ruin

751
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: Sutton's life. It was certainly shady and she certainly paid

752
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 2: for it. But and I would understand her, you know,

753
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: going in feeling like I have to bring some of

754
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 2: this to the table. But why there was such a

755
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: reaction to that? People? Do you know housewives can cut

756
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: way deeper than that, And in my mind, I like shady.

757
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: I laugh at shady, right, It's people can be very funny,

758
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 2: very shady, but when it gets that dark, it's hard

759
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 2: to watch. But why people have the reaction to her

760
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 2: when I just thought listen, maybe it wasn't nice, but

761
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 2: it wasn't so deep. I didn't think, you know, she

762
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 2: became a villain pretty quickly she did.

763
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 3: And I will I'm going to explain that because I'm

764
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 3: one of the people who really had a reaction.

765
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: To her, really because maybe because of my.

766
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 3: Right. So for me, I'll just share briefly, I'm a

767
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: two time cancer survivor and I'm going through a chronic

768
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 3: cancer now that there's no cure, and I've been on

769
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 3: treatment forever and it's just exhausting, but I'm doing okay.

770
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 3: And so for me, and I think a lot of

771
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 3: other folks who have had medical issues, whether it be

772
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 3: mental health, physical health, you know, eating disorders, what have you,

773
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 3: we have been exposed to folks like her that talk

774
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:33,919
Speaker 3: to us like we're idiots or like we like I

775
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: personally don't like when a medical professional tries to talk

776
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 3: about my body like they know it better than I. Right,

777
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 3: So for me, what I always say is a medical professional,

778
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: your degree is a piece of paper, but your morals, values, ethics,

779
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 3: and you know, true education are shown in your behavior.

780
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 3: And I think for me, what bothered me about it

781
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 3: and many other peace people because a lot of people.

782
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 3: I get a lot of dms and a lot of

783
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 3: comments on my Instagram. They felt the same way. They

784
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 3: felt shamed, they felt judged. And I think she tapped

785
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 3: into you know a lot of people like me with

786
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 3: invisible illness, like I look great.

787
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 2: I know that, Yeah you do.

788
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 3: And you know so sometimes when you have invisible illness,

789
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 3: you're used to people really mistreating you and judging you.

790
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 3: And I think she just represented that. Well.

791
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: I didn't even think of that angle. I get that.

792
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,959
Speaker 2: I mean, that completely makes sense. I would have been different.

793
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 2: I would have certainly had a different reaction if I'd

794
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 2: been through what you've been through.

795
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: Can I jump back to your over correction comment, because

796
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,879
Speaker 1: that really struck me. So the House I started out

797
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 1: as a really like a show about friends, right, maybe

798
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: with some like minor dis agreements, and it has over corrected.

799
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: You are right, And now where do we go from here?

800
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 1: What happens from here? Is it just going to can

801
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: continue to get meaner and snarkier or is it like,

802
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: are we just expecting more and more drama? What's going

803
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: to happen with these shows? What do you think?

804
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 3: That is such a good question, and I've posed that

805
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 3: question myself on my Instagram is that I believe Housewives

806
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 3: has become such a tox successful that it is becoming

807
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: it's like, how do we move ask this if this

808
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 3: is like the level of entertainment or the level of

809
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 3: you know, villain era that we feel is entertainment, where

810
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 3: does this go? And so Jackie, it's such a good question,

811
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 3: and to me, my answer is that I believe it's unsustainable.

812
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 3: I don't know what's going to happen. I kind of

813
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 3: like my intuition it's something's common and I know, so.

814
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: What then why do we?

815
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 2: I still don't miss not I don't watch every franchise,

816
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 2: but I don't miss an episode like if it's gotten

817
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 2: to that place where it is so dark and I

818
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 2: still here, I am, you know, telling the truth. I

819
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 2: love it, you know, I don't always love every moment

820
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 2: of it. I have moments where I feel, you know,

821
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 2: sick for one of the women who is the brunt

822
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 2: of you know, the meanness. But I still am addicted.

823
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: What is that about?

824
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 3: J One of the things I love about you is

825
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 3: you're just like so honest and upfront and Jackie, you

826
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 3: two you're just both so honest and real and I

827
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 3: think what I love is just being honest about what

828
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 3: you're saying, because that's that's a fact. I mean, and listen,

829
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 3: I watch every episode too, right, I.

830
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 2: Mean, does that mean that we're mean girls as well

831
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 2: if we're enjoying mean girl behavior?

832
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 3: No, I think for well, for me, it's it's content

833
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 3: if I'm being honest, right, there's for me, the grosser

834
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 3: things get, the more clinical interpretation I have. So for me,

835
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 3: it's a gold mine. I'm going to be honest in

836
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 3: terms of the work that I'm doing, but in terms

837
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 3: of just the general public, I'm going to liken it

838
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 3: to almost like a soap opera, right we you know

839
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 3: people love soap operas, and it's kind of like a

840
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 3: real life soap opera. But what's great about it is

841
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 3: we feel, again because of these parasocial relationships, like we

842
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 3: know the people, so what happens is I think we watch,

843
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 3: but then there's that's where these teams come in, like

844
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 3: team so and so, Team so and so, because we

845
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 3: feel A we have a relationship with them, B we

846
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 3: feel the injustice of what's happening and then see it.

847
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 3: So it's like it's almost creates the faux sense of interaction.

848
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 3: But it isn't is it? That's that's fun.

849
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 2: Like Jackie was saying that when she gets hurt, her

850
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 2: instinct is, like all of us, she wants revenge. So

851
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 2: watching that, you know, feeling what one of the cast

852
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 2: members feel in terms of being hurt and wanting revenge

853
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: for that person, and then seeing that person get revenge,

854
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 2: I guess can be cathartic.

855
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 3: Sure, because let's take the scandal all situation. Right, everyone

856
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 3: has been an areaana everyone well most a lot of

857
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 3: people have been cheated on or mistreated, and so when

858
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 3: we see this person who was us gets such vindication,

859
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 3: it's like it fulfills something in us that never got that.

860
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 3: It can serve as validation, right, it can serve as

861
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 3: oh wow, I was wrong like this too, and look

862
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 3: at all the attentions she's getting, and so it validates.

863
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 3: So I think that to answer that question is that

864
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 3: sometimes it gives us a lot of validation. And that's

865
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 3: not necessarily bad human beings. We're human, we have you know,

866
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 3: humanity is tough, and we all have sore spots and

867
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 3: growing edges and trigger points. And so I think what

868
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 3: Housewives ultimately does is it works on hitting those buttons,

869
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 3: and then the viewer gets emotionally kind of sucked in,

870
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 3: and then it becomes something that you just don't want

871
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 3: to stop watching, even though it has felt so toxic, right.

872
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: But even beyond that, like you have this portion of

873
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: people saying, like, I just want to see you guys

874
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: be friends and have some fun and have like times.

875
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: But like the other day, Jen and I went to

876
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: the Madonna concert and we went with.

877
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 2: Which is really by the way, I don't know what

878
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 2: people amazing people are saying, she is right on her game.

879
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: Yes we went with Sisa and Jen aaden okay, And

880
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: when when there is a picture of me and Theresa

881
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: together on social media, the hateful comments are insane. I

882
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 1: cannot believe how invested people are in us going to

883
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: a place together. And I just wonder it's not just

884
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: the shows, it's off season. Also, it's all the time

885
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 1: people don't really want to see. I wonder do people

886
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: really want to see friendships? Aren't these shows about like

887
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: finding your way back to friendship after confrontation. Isn't that

888
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: what they should be? And if so, why is there

889
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 1: so much hate for people making up?

890
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 3: Okay? So I think there's two answers to that. I

891
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:51,320
Speaker 3: think that a lot of Bravo fans are very petulant

892
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 3: in that they think that they want something and then

893
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 3: when they're given that, they're not happy. So I just

894
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 3: think sometimes it's human nature to say or to think

895
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 3: that we want something and then when we're given that,

896
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 3: we don't care for it. Number One, humans can be fickle,

897
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 3: let's be honest, and especially Bravo. And number two, I

898
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 3: think Jackie the situation with you and Teresa my understanding

899
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 3: because I've seen those hateful comments too, which are you know,

900
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,760
Speaker 3: that's a whole other thing. People who just like say

901
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 3: these awful things on the internet. It's it's wild. It's

902
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 3: my least favorite part about what I'm doing because it's

903
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 3: just so gross. I think that people with you both

904
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 3: and listen, we're gonna see this, and I have no

905
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 3: inside information. I think people think it's inauthentic and therefore

906
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 3: their you know, frustrate or there are people I think

907
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 3: that feel that Teresa did you grave harm, you know,

908
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,959
Speaker 3: by bringing up certain rumors, and so they think, well,

909
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 3: how can Jackie be friends with her? And so But

910
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,760
Speaker 3: here's the thing about real life is in real life

911
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 3: we are supposed to have conflict. Conflict is a part

912
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 3: of relationships, and unfortunately our society and our parents, we

913
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 3: don't really get taught how to manage that. So it

914
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 3: is possible to have this really challenging relationship with someone

915
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 3: and then grow and move forward authentically. I think in

916
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 3: your case, the problem is the audience hasn't seen that

917
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 3: authentic base because it happened in between seasons, right, so,

918
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,479
Speaker 3: and people have a lot of imagination, and everybody thinks

919
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 3: that they're a therapist, trust me because they try to

920
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 3: tell me about things. And I think people are assuming.

921
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 3: It's a lot of assumptions of well, this is tactical

922
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 3: or this isn't authentic, But it's because it happened in

923
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 3: between seasons and we didn't get to see that natural

924
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:49,399
Speaker 3: authentic Bill.

925
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 2: Does that make sense, Melissa, Well, don't you think is?

926
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 2: You know? In life? And I think maybe even on

927
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 2: the show. But I've been accused of not being authentic

928
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 2: because I don't maybe engage. Well, who knows what's going

929
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 2: to happen this coming season. You know, you'll watch and

930
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 2: you'll tell me what you think. But I feel like

931
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 2: my in therapy I have kind of learned that even

932
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 2: the people that we can't stand or have so much

933
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 2: resentment against, there's always a humanity there. I mean, I

934
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 2: can't say that terrorists have humanity and I want to

935
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 2: go there, But like, when you see the humanity in someone,

936
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 2: all of that other anger and nastiness, it fades, right,

937
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 2: And I think that it's so interesting that, you know,

938
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 2: on the show, people can hate each other's guts and

939
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 2: then love each other. And I feel like, because once

940
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 2: you actually get through all of the anger and you

941
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 2: can see somebody's for lack of a better word, humanity,

942
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 2: all of that other stuff just sort of dissipates. So Jack,

943
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 2: I mean, you would have to speak to that more than.

944
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would really agree with that. So if you

945
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,760
Speaker 1: take the Monica of it all, right, like she clearly

946
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 1: you can see how horrible her life has been. I mean,

947
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: she was abandoned as a child, she has a tumultuous

948
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: relationship with her mother, she's a single mom, and it

949
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: still doesn't make me.

950
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 2: But that's not what I mean seeing the humanity. I mean,

951
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 2: like if you, let's say one of these women were

952
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 2: to sit down and have lunch with Monica and she

953
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 2: was to say this has been you know, such a

954
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 2: shit show, and I feel so sick, and it's so

955
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: hard to have had this reaction. And you know, let's

956
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 2: say she really became vulnerable. Once she was vulnerable and open,

957
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 2: I think that things would change in terms of how

958
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 2: you were to feel about her. I think that was

959
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 2: also a complaint at the reunion, right, she wasn't vulnerable.

960
00:52:55,239 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 2: But oftentimes, and I don't know what happened with you

961
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,240
Speaker 2: and Teresa's between you and Teresa, but I think in general,

962
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 2: you can have all of this animosity towards someone and

963
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 2: then as soon as someone sort of shows their humanity

964
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 2: or their vulnerability, that can dissipate. Yeah.

965
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 3: Jen, that is so smart and such a stude observation

966
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 3: because one of the things, like I kind of wrote

967
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 3: it because one of you both are one of the

968
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 3: things in how to handle of course, that's why I

969
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,280
Speaker 3: love Checkie. She's so smart. The one of the ways

970
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,279
Speaker 3: to handle the mean girl, one of them is to

971
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 3: look at the humanity. And so, you know, JACKI you

972
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 3: brought up an interesting point. Sometimes we can do that

973
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 3: and sometimes we can't. So when we see someone that

974
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 3: triggers us, if they if there's something about them that

975
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 3: triggers something within us. We may not be able to

976
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 3: see that humanity, Like I have a harder time seeing

977
00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 3: the humanity for Anna Marie, but I my whole Instagram.

978
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 3: I have been kind of a champion for Monica in

979
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 3: explaining why she is the way she is, and so

980
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 3: as a therapist, I can see through the humanity to

981
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:19,720
Speaker 3: the humanity of some pretty egregious behaviors. But it's okay

982
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 3: if we can't always do that. But yes, that is

983
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:27,760
Speaker 3: the answer to kind of getting to the truth of

984
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 3: what's happening with this person. Because people are more than

985
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 3: their behaviors. The behaviors come from somewhere, and if we

986
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 3: understand that, it helps our empathy.

987
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 2: Well, it's like on reunions when you see, you know,

988
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 2: somebody who has been so mean, but you see them

989
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 2: break down, You'll see another member of the cast go

990
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 2: over and hug them. Can I just hug you? You

991
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 2: see a lot of that, right, Like human instinct is

992
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 2: to get up and comfort a person, So you must

993
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 2: your career and what you do must be so interesting

994
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 2: to see both, right, to see the struggle between that

995
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 2: those mean instincts and those loving human instincts.

996
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 3: I've had people come to therapy who literally yelled at me,

997
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 3: treated me so terribly, and I ended up developing by

998
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 3: the end of it, a wonderful, beautiful relationship with them,

999
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 3: Because sometimes the behaviors come from a place of heart,

1000
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 3: and so if you're willing to see past that and

1001
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,319
Speaker 3: you know, just be with someone, you know, that can

1002
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 3: change a lot.

1003
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:34,799
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you if you think like

1004
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: taking it out of Housewives and going back to movies

1005
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:43,760
Speaker 1: where always the mean girl is popular, Well, I shouldn't

1006
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 1: say that there's always a popular, beautiful girl who's mean.

1007
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: The mean girl is never going to be the one

1008
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: sitting in the corner being ignored at school. She's always

1009
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: going to be the queen bee. She's going to be

1010
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 1: the prom queen, the one that everyone wants to be

1011
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,320
Speaker 1: friends with. And yeah, she'll get in some drama and

1012
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 1: at the end, someone else will be more popular than her. Right,

1013
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: that's the way these movies go. But does do the

1014
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: way they portray mean girls as being popular and beautiful

1015
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 1: do you think that affects people like our daughters. Like

1016
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,280
Speaker 1: our daughters are both in school, hers is in college,

1017
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: mine's in middle school. But like the middle school crowd

1018
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: is tough. Does that go out to them?

1019
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 3: Brutal? Middle school is brutal?

1020
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. Why why is it so bad? My god?

1021
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 1: It blows me away?

1022
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 3: Here's why? Because how do I answer this? Briefly, we

1023
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 3: as a society, as parents, I know you two are

1024
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 3: doing a great job of this. A lot of parents

1025
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 3: don't teach their kids how to manage emotions number one,

1026
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 3: how to handle conflict, and how to communicate effectively. Okay,

1027
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 3: kids learn how to communicate from their home. They learn

1028
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:05,280
Speaker 3: it through not what they're told, they learn it through modeling. Okay,

1029
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 3: So to me, this behavior, there's usually something going on

1030
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 3: at home. Sometimes sometimes there is not, but there are

1031
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 3: definitely Like there's six signs of mean girl, and one

1032
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 3: of them is definitely appearance focused because I think again,

1033
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 3: in our society, there is this image of you know,

1034
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 3: to be a queen bee, you have to be the best,

1035
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 3: the best looking, the best dressed, the most popular. You know,

1036
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 3: there's all of these kind of difficulties. But ultimately, mean

1037
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 3: girls have trouble with friendships because of their behavior. But

1038
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 3: in middle school, we lack the ability to have self awareness.

1039
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 3: Like cognitively, our brains are not fully developed until age

1040
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 3: twenty five and the last part of the brain to

1041
00:57:54,760 --> 00:58:00,680
Speaker 3: develop is the prefrontal cortexes that control impulses. So kids

1042
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 3: aren't doing it's developmentally appropriate. What's what's happening in terms

1043
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 3: of their hormones and their emotions in all of this,

1044
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 3: Those types of kids don't have the folks around them

1045
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 3: that they need to say, Hey, I noticed this behavior,

1046
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 3: what's happening. Let's look at this together, you know. Does

1047
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: that make sense?

1048
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 2: Yes? Is that though an excuse in terms of when

1049
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 2: we become women, we were never taught to control our impulses,

1050
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 2: to curb our mean girl impulses? Is that an excuse?

1051
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 2: Or is it time when you reach a certain age too,

1052
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 2: you know, to stop being so damn right?

1053
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,720
Speaker 1: Because like if you look on like we were talking about

1054
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 1: the Facebook groups that were like Facebook mom groups, like

1055
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: they jump all over each other. They're so mean to

1056
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: each other in a way that men are not.

1057
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. Here there's so there's two different types of

1058
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 3: mean girls. Okay, there's the types of mean girls that

1059
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 3: were mean girls when they were younger. They grew up,

1060
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 3: they developed some self awareness and they said, oh boy,

1061
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 3: this is not good. Let me change my behavior and

1062
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 3: there definitely are a lot of people like that. You know,

1063
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 3: you hear stories on the internet of people who go

1064
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,479
Speaker 3: back to their high people they bullied in high school

1065
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 3: and they apologize.

1066
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 2: And things like that.

1067
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 3: And then there are those women who don't grow out

1068
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 3: of it. They don't learn, they don't grow. And what

1069
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 3: I like to say is as we grow we all

1070
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 3: have issues, okay, and as we grow, if we don't

1071
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 3: deal with them, we either get better or we get bitter.

1072
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: That is it.

1073
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 3: And so the adult mean girls, by the way, those

1074
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 3: Facebook groups are atrocious.

1075
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 1: They really are.

1076
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 3: They're so awful. These are women who are fundamentally and

1077
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 3: by the way, research shows that these women have low

1078
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 3: levels of empathy and long term unhappiness and possibly that

1079
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 3: could even lead to depression.

1080
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 2: That's what I was about to ask you, Melissa. I'm

1081
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 2: sorry to interrupt, but that's what I want to know.

1082
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 2: Are there consequences, internal consequences to being a mean girl.

1083
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 3: Yes, but the problem is they're all internal and we

1084
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 3: don't often see it until something like the damn break,

1085
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 3: so to speak, until something really egregious happens. They this

1086
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 3: is what people have to understand. Miserable people feel miserable

1087
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 3: like our behaviors show how we feel about ourselves, okay,

1088
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 3: and like I've gone through a lot of stuff. I'm

1089
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 3: the kindest person you'll ever meet. I'll never treat someone

1090
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 3: with less than kindness. That's just my morals and values.

1091
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 3: But so these folks, there is karma, it's internal. They're miserable,

1092
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 3: they're unhappy, and Jackie, this might interest you is that

1093
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 3: there are research studies that show and associate perfectionistic tendency

1094
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 3: that often get kind of morphed into eating disorders with

1095
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 3: these women because it's very image based and they're miserable,

1096
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 3: non happy, and they're trying to control things, and we

1097
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 3: all know a lot of that is what you know,

1098
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 3: can create an eating disorder. So these women, I would

1099
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 3: argue that a significant amount of them have, you know,

1100
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 3: may have I have to be mindful here, some depression,

1101
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 3: some anxiety, some you know, disordered eating behavior, low self

1102
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 3: esteem and confidence. So when you look at some of

1103
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 3: these things that people write and you feel icky, that's

1104
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 3: how they feel all the time.

1105
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 2: Which, by the way, clearly I have mean girl in

1106
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 2: me because that makes me happy. Like mean girls are miserable,

1107
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 2: not miserable, but mean girls.

1108
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's coming from a place of heart that

1109
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 1: makes no man.

1110
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 2: No, it makes me happy in a mean girl way,

1111
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 2: like if you're mean, you're miserable. Good you should be miserable,

1112
01:01:59,600 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 2: you're mean.

1113
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. Some some people I just feel like

1114
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 1: they're just bursting with self confidence and they feel like

1115
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 1: no matter how mean they are, they'll be loved. I

1116
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: don't know.

1117
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 3: Well, I believe that people who we feel are bursting

1118
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 3: with self confidence. It's it actually comes from a very

1119
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,919
Speaker 3: insecure place. But listen, are there some people like that?

1120
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 3: For sure? Yes, you are correct, but you know, Jen,

1121
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 3: I don't want you to be hard on yourself because

1122
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 3: you're human.

1123
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1124
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 3: And so when we see someone, because I'm going to

1125
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 3: be honest, if I see someone who's mistreating other people

1126
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 3: and then they get theirs, there's of course a part

1127
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 3: of me that's a little satisfied.

1128
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 2: Welcome to housewives. I think that is one of the

1129
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 2: biggest I can't stand someone for whatever reason, not always

1130
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 2: because they're mean, maybe because for me they're beautiful and

1131
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 2: they seem perfect, and they seem full of themselves or

1132
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 2: and so I like to see them brought down a notch, right,

1133
01:02:56,600 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 2: which is my own young girl stuff. But you like

1134
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,480
Speaker 2: to see the mean girl, just like in the movies,

1135
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 2: get knocked down, and Housewise will do that to you.

1136
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. What worries me is that it just seems as

1137
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:13,080
Speaker 1: an outsider watching other shows that it it's just this,

1138
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: this desire to watch people you mean to each other

1139
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 1: just gets stronger and stronger every year, and I wonder

1140
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 1: where it's going.

1141
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 2: I don't really think, you know, the producers when I

1142
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 2: joined Jersey, they told me to watch Miami because they

1143
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 2: said Miami is shady. Right, it's not again, They're not

1144
01:03:33,840 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 2: out to ruin each other. They are shady and it's funny,

1145
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:42,919
Speaker 2: but it's not quite so dark. And so I don't

1146
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 2: know who knows, you know what what the executives all want.

1147
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 2: But what I was told was that they don't want

1148
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 2: it so dark. I think maybe we just need to

1149
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 2: move to Miami. Maybe maybe to Miami, it'll be sunny,

1150
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 2: it won't be just kidding.

1151
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 1: I love Jerseys, but you know, I am curious to

1152
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 1: see where where everything goes. It's but Melissa, you are

1153
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 1: just the most brilliant, the most brilliant, and I'm so

1154
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: grateful that you were here today to explain all of

1155
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 1: this to us.

1156
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:09,760
Speaker 2: I know, can you come sleep over at my house?

1157
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 2: I know, just want I want you to hold me.

1158
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 2: I just want you like an intercom, like a buzz

1159
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 2: thank you.

1160
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 3: I love you both.

1161
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I love her.

1162
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 1: I could talk to her all day and she's She's

1163
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: so in tune to like everything she says.

1164
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, you're right, yeah, yeah, and non judgmental.

1165
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:31,680
Speaker 1: No, right, she's great.

1166
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 2: She's not a mean girl. She can't be a housewife.

1167
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 1: No, she would not like this, no, no, no, no, no, no,

1168
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: but no, she really is.

1169
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 2: Really that's so insightful and like I don't know, personally

1170
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 2: like helpful, right, And again I don't think, like she said,

1171
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 2: there's a spectrum and I have mean girl instincts. It's

1172
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 2: like nice to know that we all do, right, yeah,

1173
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 2: and sort of how to take it. And it was

1174
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 2: really helpful for me also to hear that, you know,

1175
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 2: mean girls, they are repercussions for it, and not not

1176
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 2: only externally but internally.

1177
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 1: And you're right of hurt people, hurt people.

1178
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 2: Hurt people, hurt people, right, Yeah, anyway, this is a

1179
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 2: good one. This was good.

1180
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 1: Gut her face, you guys, this was a fun episode.

1181
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:25,919
Speaker 1: I loved it.

1182
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved it too.

1183
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 1: All right, So we are going to sign off, but

1184
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: listen and review. Leave us five stars and we love

1185
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 1: you guys.

1186
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 2: We do in any comments the dms, they are really helpful,

1187
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 2: you guys. Try to keep them nice. Yeah, keep it nice.

1188
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:42,240
Speaker 1: Don't be a mean girl.

1189
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:43,919
Speaker 2: Don't be a mean girl. Talk to you soon.