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Speaker 1: I think bitcoin is if someone comes for you, they

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Speaker 1: can't mess with you in the same way they can

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Speaker 1: with cash. So I think it's very useful and I

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Speaker 1: think it's hopeful for liborty moving forward. I think these

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Speaker 1: city states are going to be powered by bitcoin, powered

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Speaker 1: by just similar type of things that take, as you said,

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Speaker 1: money out of the state's hands.

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Speaker 2: Multiple generations that have owned a castle or some part

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Speaker 2: of land, but there's no income from that, so now

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Speaker 2: they own this land. They own this castle where they

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Speaker 2: can't even afford to keep it up.

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Speaker 1: What happened there huge blocks of land going on an

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Speaker 1: ill liquid market for asset that no one wants, and

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Speaker 1: it wiped out the estates, but there's no land to

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Speaker 1: fund it because it's all been taxed away. And the

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Speaker 1: problem with those taxes was it was the nominal value

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Speaker 1: of the land, not the income it produced. So when

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Speaker 1: they're not producing income and you have to sell the

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Speaker 1: whole thing that the states just decayed.

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Speaker 3: It takes the assets out of the old owners.

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Speaker 1: Who kind of cared about it for the future and

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Speaker 1: puts it in the hands of people who don't really care.

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Speaker 1: They're going to put a solar farm on top of it.

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Speaker 1: It's going to poison the agricultural land, and that's what

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Speaker 1: we're saying now.

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Speaker 2: I think about sometimes, like, certainly we've sent the middle

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Speaker 2: class over to China. We could bring those jobs back,

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Speaker 2: but wouldn't that be a kin to putting people in

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Speaker 2: the field to pick cotton and strawberries? Low paying jobs today?

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Speaker 2: How much would you say it's just times change, technology

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Speaker 2: has shifted that.

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Speaker 1: I think what you want, though, is you want more

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Speaker 1: of those domestic jobs being produced, because not everyone can

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Speaker 1: succeed in the knowledge economy. And I think to have

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Speaker 1: a thriving internal market, you need jobs for people different

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Speaker 1: ways up the ladder.

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Speaker 3: But you also don't want.

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Speaker 1: To stifle domestic innovation by letting people who have other

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Speaker 1: interests take advantage of your market. You'd probably want to

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Speaker 1: look at something about a new amendment for voting where

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Speaker 1: only net taxpayers can vote. I mean, preferably we're not

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Speaker 1: going to have the income tax, but if we are, all.

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Speaker 2: Right, Will Tanner, thanks so much for joining me today.

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Speaker 2: Super happy to have you here. And it's been a

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Speaker 2: little bit of trouble, but I'm glad we're here. We're

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Speaker 2: going to do this show. You have been writing about

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Speaker 2: history in a way that's super fascinating and most fascinating

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Speaker 2: for me are the parallels that history has with sort

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Speaker 2: of what the world seems to be going through right now.

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Speaker 2: So I want to talk about that. The way that

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Speaker 2: you're able to connect these dots is amazing. Start with

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Speaker 2: a big frame. I guess, what kind of big parallels

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Speaker 2: do you see with some of the stuff you write

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Speaker 2: about history in today?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there are a couple of things that

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Speaker 1: it's all kind of interesting seeing the pattern repeat one

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Speaker 1: big thing, and this kind of ties in with one

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Speaker 1: of the points I use a lot is for whom

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Speaker 1: does society exist? Is it for the productive? Is it

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Speaker 1: for the best? Is it for the people who need

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Speaker 1: the most help? I think recently we've seen it beat

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Speaker 1: for the people who need the most help, which has

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Speaker 1: its advantages and disadvantages, but is a big change from

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Speaker 1: twentieth century, eighteenth century, nineteenth century Western history.

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Speaker 3: And it's existed before, but it's rare.

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Speaker 1: And if you get into why, I think the pattern

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Speaker 1: you really see in this thing that's relevant and happens

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Speaker 1: a lot is egalitarianism, or this belief that there's no

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Speaker 1: difference in human capability between people or between people groups,

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Speaker 1: and that if any difference does present itself, it's the

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Speaker 1: job of the government to come in and crush it

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Speaker 1: with whatever amount of force or regulation is necessary. So

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Speaker 1: you see that in the French Revolution, you see that

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Speaker 1: in England in the late nineteenth century, and you see

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Speaker 1: that really in America starting in perhaps the sixties or seventies,

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Speaker 1: but then really ramping up in the two thousands.

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Speaker 3: So I think we're in one of those patterns.

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Speaker 1: Where it's the battle of egalitarianism or hyper egalitarianism versus

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Speaker 1: you know, human capability and technology gives us such ways

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Speaker 1: to express ourselves and show differences in human capability. We're

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Speaker 1: really seeing that struggle now, and I think it's a

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Speaker 1: struggle we've seen before.

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Speaker 2: You referenced mostly sort of newer history, French Revolution and forward.

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Speaker 2: So does that seem to be more a symptom of

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Speaker 2: like a fluence, Like maybe when you've sort of gotten

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Speaker 2: rid of the base needs that then those types of

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Speaker 2: things become an issue. You know.

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Speaker 1: I think I just happened to reference more modern history

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Speaker 1: because there's so many more sources that are far easier

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Speaker 1: to read. Okay, if you want a more ancient example,

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Speaker 1: and I think you're right that affluence makes this a

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Speaker 1: bit deal where it presents itself more frequently. But if

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Speaker 1: you want an older example, you can look at the

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Speaker 1: egalitarianism under despotism of the pre Indo European European societies

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Speaker 1: Katul Hayuk. I think as I pronounced it as one

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Speaker 1: of the more famous ones, but everyone just lived in

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Speaker 1: these horrid, Favella like worlds. These cramped cities were disease.

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Speaker 1: Disease was rife and spread it quickly, and the invaders

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Speaker 1: that stamped a lot of that out were very hierarchical,

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Speaker 1: and it was this long centuries long battle between the

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Speaker 1: two groups. Would this pastoralist society from the step which

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Speaker 1: we've seen in history, repeat itself a lot when and

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Speaker 1: the hierarchy that it carried with it when and the

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Speaker 1: sky got it carried with it whin Or would these

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Speaker 1: despotisms and other than the king at the top, the

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Speaker 1: galitarian society completely beneath him, Is that what would win?

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Speaker 3: So we've seen the fight before.

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Speaker 1: But I think you're right that affluence both makes the

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Speaker 1: cycles quicker and makes it a little bit easier to see.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like maybe once you're not so concerned

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Speaker 2: about having enough food to live, for example, then you

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Speaker 2: can start to worry about other people, right, and if

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Speaker 2: they're equal as equal as you are, right, I want,

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Speaker 2: I want to pull on some of these threads, but

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Speaker 2: I want to go back maybe a little bit in time.

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Speaker 2: So obviously you're super knowledgeable about this. You write about this,

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Speaker 2: and I'm curious. Why is it because you're just interested

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Speaker 2: in curious or is it because you see like maybe

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Speaker 2: there's lessons that we can learn and we could benefit from.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious sort of how you guys started diving down

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Speaker 2: these deep history rabbit holes and specifically why.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is very random.

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Speaker 1: When I was a teenager, I don't know if you've

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Speaker 1: ever heard of Soldier Fortune magazine, but it was.

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Speaker 2: A folder fortune.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yeah, it was kind of like a military magazine.

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Speaker 1: But the guy who founded it, I think his name's

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Speaker 1: Robert Brown, wrote a memoir that I found in Bornes

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Speaker 1: and Noble when I was just kind of plotting around

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Speaker 1: looking for something to do, and read it and he

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Speaker 1: mentioned Rhodesia in it, which is a country I'd never

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Speaker 1: heard of before. So I went and started reading about

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Speaker 1: it and kept reading about it, and I noticed that

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Speaker 1: there's this country that was, you know, relatively free and prosperous,

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Speaker 1: and really the only difference between it and the countries

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Speaker 1: that weren't destroyed during the decolonization push was that it

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Speaker 1: was relatively hierarchical and non egalitarian. The rights were respected

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Speaker 1: for all, but it was a different society formation than

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Speaker 1: we really see elsewhere in the West now, And so

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Speaker 1: that got me interested, and I kind of kept reading

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Speaker 1: out about it out of personal interest. But then I

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Speaker 1: had started to notice that if you look at the

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Speaker 1: problems America faces now, the things that really made life

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Speaker 1: just awful in twenty.

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Speaker 3: Twenty and twenty twenty one for a lot of.

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Speaker 1: People, it was this refusal to recognize nature and you know,

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Speaker 1: recognize that different people have different capabilities that should be

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Speaker 1: cherished and strengthened to the best vability, but certainly have

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Speaker 1: to be recognized.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 1: So I started reading more about decolonization in Africa because

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Speaker 1: of that, because it's one of these really stark examples

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Speaker 1: of seeing this just collapse happen, and we know why,

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Speaker 1: and we have all the day a lot because it's

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Speaker 1: very modern and very recent result catalogued and them, and

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Speaker 1: that's how I also got into the Old World because

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Speaker 1: I noticed that why did the English Empire decline? Why

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Speaker 1: did it collapse? It was this magnificent empire that lifted

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Speaker 1: people out of poverty and squalor for century and at

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Speaker 1: one point covered I think a quarter of the world surface,

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Speaker 1: and then at the point where its decline began, it

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Speaker 1: was gone within a couple decades. So what happened there?

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Speaker 1: And I noticed many of the same trends that happened

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Speaker 1: in Southern Africa, particularly Rhodesia, happened in England as well.

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Speaker 3: And then at the same.

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Speaker 1: Time you saw these mass riots, just things on fire

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Speaker 1: and politicians having this very odd way. I thought of

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Speaker 1: talking about it and so kind of sense the commonalities

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Speaker 1: and thought it might be helpful to get deeper into

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Speaker 1: why these collapses happened in what ways they relate to

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Speaker 1: the American experience.

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Speaker 2: Do you when you go back even further, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it is the same things that you see repeating even

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Speaker 2: back to the Roman Empire. And is it sort of

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Speaker 2: like this two hundred and fifty year lifespan of an

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Speaker 2: empire or democracy something like that?

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Speaker 1: Maybe I think in some ways it is the looting

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Speaker 1: of the treasury phase of democracy or a decayed republic

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Speaker 1: is certainly something that plays out very frequently, and we

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Speaker 1: see that in America, we see it in Greece, we

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Speaker 1: see it in Rome, and same with to Piffody call

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Speaker 1: it democracy's tendency to choose Barabbas, which is from the

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Speaker 1: story of Christ where Brabas was chosen by the crowd

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Speaker 1: over Christ when pilot asked who the crowd wanted to free.

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Speaker 1: And you see that in Athens, for example, where they

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Speaker 1: chose Alcibiades, just terrible expedition to Sicily that really ended

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Speaker 1: Athens as this important city state because Sparta defeated it

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Speaker 1: because of that. So you see democracy making patent decisions

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Speaker 1: frequently and ending empires because of it, which is very.

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Speaker 3: Relevant to America.

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Speaker 1: I do think though, that the what we call the Enlightenment,

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Speaker 1: in this kind of birth of liberalism as a political force,

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Speaker 1: it did change things somewhat because if you look at

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Speaker 1: you know, say the War of Spanish Succession in seventeen hundred,

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Speaker 1: there's not this ideological bent to it about egalitarianism or

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Speaker 1: about leveling. And similarly, if you get back to Rome,

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Speaker 1: they had conflicts with the Germans and didn't see the

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Speaker 1: barbarians on the step as their equals. But it wasn't

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Speaker 1: this ideological fight. It was just a fight, as you're

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Speaker 1: talked about earlier, to fight for survival. Whereas in the

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Speaker 1: post French Revolution, post mid seventeen hundred's world, there's this

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Speaker 1: ideology of leveling that's attendant to a lot of conflict,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's very hard to detach from it.

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Speaker 1: And though that impulse has existed before, I think the

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Speaker 1: dominance of it as an ideology and something to which

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Speaker 1: just so many people in positions of power attached is

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Speaker 1: something relatively near.

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Speaker 3: It makes this era different from ones that preceded it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you said that democracy ends a lot of times

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Speaker 2: because of bad decisions? Is that? I think you had

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Speaker 2: written a piece talking about was it maybe Socrates and

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Speaker 2: how they had thought about a democracy? And I think

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Speaker 2: you likened it to how could you vote for a

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Speaker 2: captain of a ship if you know nothing about saling?

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Speaker 2: Was that your writing? But you talk about democracy any

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Speaker 2: because of bad decisions? And so is that where you

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Speaker 2: have sort of ruled by the mobs, but the uneducated

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Speaker 2: mobs who are uneducated and don't understand the situations like so,

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Speaker 2: for example, in this last presidential election states maybe one

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Speaker 2: of the top issues was inflation. For example, most people

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Speaker 2: have zero idea about inflation or what causes it. So

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Speaker 2: then how do you vote for somebody to fix inflation

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Speaker 2: if you don't even understand what the situation is that

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Speaker 2: has caused it?

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Speaker 1: Right, one thing that comes up when you mentioned that. Now,

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Speaker 1: I'll get to your foot in one second, and this

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Speaker 1: just reminds me of it. If you say, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: perhaps some there's some people who, because they've been pread

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Speaker 1: to rule, they might do a better job at governing,

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Speaker 1: at least on the edges, at least comparatively to the average.

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Speaker 3: And people say, well, there's reversion to the mean.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to do this over time because everyone just

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Speaker 1: reverts the mean. And in some ways that's true. You

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Speaker 1: revert to the mean of your ancestors. But do race

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Speaker 1: horses revert to the mean of donkeys. No, If they do,

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Speaker 1: it's very rare. And so I think that's something you

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Speaker 1: run into with democracy as a system, is because there's

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Speaker 1: no guidelines on who can vote.

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Speaker 3: And Athens at least had a system.

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Speaker 1: Where if you proposed a law, you did it with

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Speaker 1: a news around your neck, because if the chain to

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Speaker 1: their current laws were voted down and you proposed it,

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Speaker 1: you'd be hanged because they didn't want this constant turmoil

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Speaker 1: of law suggestion, which we of course don't have, And

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Speaker 1: so republics can mind some of the old benefits of

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Speaker 1: aristocracy with some of the other benefits of democracy, which

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Speaker 1: I think there's a great mix there. In America did

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Speaker 1: it quite well for a period, but mass democracy has

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Speaker 1: this problem where that you know, the worst will always

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Speaker 1: outweigh the best if their votes are all equal, and

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Speaker 1: that's something you really don't want. You want to have

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Speaker 1: some limitation that it keeps the vote or keeps the

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Speaker 1: ability to steward the wealth and prosperity in future of

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Speaker 1: the nation in the hands of people who I think

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Speaker 1: have shown the ability to steward things personally. Rhodesia did

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Speaker 1: that with property voting, as America and Britain did up

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Speaker 1: until the eighteen thirties. I don't think it has to

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Speaker 1: be hereditary, but it does certainly need to be limited

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Speaker 1: to people who have shown personal a personal ability to

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Speaker 1: have the qualities that you want of the qualities of

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Speaker 1: people in charge.

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Speaker 3: I know that kind of jump around at the.

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Speaker 2: End of it and maybe it's more than that. It's

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Speaker 2: even skin in the game. It's in centron systems, if

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Speaker 2: you will. Right, So, like I used to live in

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Speaker 2: a gated neighborhood. I didn't really like the rules they had,

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Speaker 2: so I moved out of the gated neighborhood. But I

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Speaker 2: don't get a vote in that gate neighborhood anymore. Or

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Speaker 2: if I went and rented a home in that neighborhood,

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Speaker 2: I don't get a vote because I don't own the

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Speaker 2: I'm just renting a home in that neighborhood, and so

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Speaker 2: I have no incentive system or I'm not incentivized to

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Speaker 2: keep that neighborhood up. So I wouldn't want to pay

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Speaker 2: to increase the rates because I don't care what the

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Speaker 2: streets look like. For example, I don't care if it

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Speaker 2: brings home values down since I don't own a home

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Speaker 2: in that area. Because you're trying about some sort of

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Speaker 2: a system like that would incentivize.

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Speaker 3: That right, and you know, as a skin in the game.

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Speaker 1: Example, A Rishi Sunac is the former Prime Minister of

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Speaker 1: Britain who did a very bad job of it is

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Speaker 1: probably the charitable way of putting it. He's now considering

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Speaker 1: just coming to America and going back to being a

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Speaker 1: banker here because he's done with politics in England. And

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Speaker 1: I think if you're a leader who can destroy the

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Speaker 1: country and then just leave and go back to having

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Speaker 1: a normal career, someone else he never really had skin

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Speaker 1: in the game. How his policies played out or her

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Speaker 1: policies played out didn't really matter. Is so could kind

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Speaker 1: of whatever could happen, it didn't matter. There's no need

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Speaker 1: to steward things. There's no need to plan ahead. Whereas

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Speaker 1: you know, when it was the aristocracy or the gentry

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Speaker 1: running things in eighteen thirty, if they did something that

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Speaker 1: was so bad it costs a revolution, they were going

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Speaker 1: to have to deal with that, and all their wealth

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Speaker 1: was tied up in a given counties, so they'd be

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Speaker 1: done if something that happened. And so you see, I

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Speaker 1: think much more reasonable decision making and much more planning

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Speaker 1: for the long term. This ability to plant trees and

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Speaker 1: the shade of which you'll never sit, but your grandchildren will.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the hallmarks of Western civilization, and it's

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Speaker 1: something that the high time preference of mass democracy really

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Speaker 1: just erodes. So yes, I think you do need a

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Speaker 1: way to have skin in the game for the long term.

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Speaker 1: That mass democracy as a system generally doesn't provide.

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Speaker 2: The high time preference of democracy specifically around sort of

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Speaker 2: like a two year or four year cycle where I'm

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Speaker 2: here for two years or four years, I see what

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Speaker 2: I could do, so maybe I get voted in back

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Speaker 2: again and maybe I don't.

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Speaker 1: Right, And you see this in other areas of life

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Speaker 1: and some America too. A ceo pay is a great example.

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Speaker 1: How many just horror stories have we heard of CEOs

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Speaker 1: having their compensation based on very short term metrics something

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Speaker 1: they get this huge golden parachute, but the company just

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Speaker 1: is destroyed in the long run. That General Electric is

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Speaker 1: one famous example. They're kind of The oil boom of

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Speaker 1: the early two thousands is another with how that played out.

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Speaker 1: But you see that just on a grander scale. And

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Speaker 1: democratic politics where people don't have to plan for the

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Speaker 1: long term, so they don't they plan for the election

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Speaker 1: cycle you mentioned, which is nevery deleterious.

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Speaker 3: I think dark country when.

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Speaker 2: You think about I think you'd written about sort of

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Speaker 2: like when you look in through the long lens of history,

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Speaker 2: it's typically sort of powerful men that drive drive that

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Speaker 2: influence right. So whether that might have been old powerful

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Speaker 2: men as in you know, fighting ability, for example, ability

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Speaker 2: to conquer, they drove sort of that policy shift. Today

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Speaker 2: you might argue that we still have powerful men driving things,

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Speaker 2: but now it's more like soft power, right through politics

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Speaker 2: but even also through money. I'm curious how how you

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Speaker 2: think about that powerful mean driving that narrative, and how

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Speaker 2: that shifted over time and why that matters.

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Speaker 1: It certainly shifted. There's one I find it very funny

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Speaker 1: anecdote about this. Around the first decade of the twentieth century,

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Speaker 1: the Prime Minister in England was Floyd George, and he

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Speaker 1: was creating a large number of peerages, which are the

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Speaker 1: aristocratic titles for different merchants and bankers and people in

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Speaker 1: England who wanted one and donated a lot to his party.

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Speaker 1: And the old Lord, one of the people who had

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Speaker 1: arrived with William the conqueror in the Conquest about a

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Speaker 1: thousand years before, approached him in the House of Lords

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Speaker 1: and was berating him for this and more. George, you

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Speaker 1: didn't know the man's background, said well, where did you

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Speaker 1: get your title? What did your family do? And Thelloyd

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Speaker 1: George said, where did you get your title. The lord

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Speaker 1: looked at him and said, with the battle axe, sir,

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Speaker 1: with the battle.

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Speaker 3: Axe, and left it there.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of a funny story, but it does

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Speaker 1: the authority this does right here. Yes, we still have

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Speaker 1: it on the wall at oh I can show you

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Speaker 1: the And you know, that's a different type of authority because,

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Speaker 1: for one, that elite isn't just a rentier class as

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Speaker 1: a purpose, and that's military leadership, which it did largely

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Speaker 1: exercise around the end of the Boer War, perhaps when

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Speaker 1: that ended. There's a long history of suffering and fighting

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Speaker 1: and bearing the brunt of the country's foreign adventures that

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Speaker 1: had existed for a thousand years, and they continued to exercise.

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Speaker 3: So then when they're considering.

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Speaker 1: Policies that they have skin in the game regarding that

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Speaker 1: both at home with land and taxes and then abroad

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Speaker 1: with having to be the ones who are going to

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Speaker 1: go fight in Sudan or wherever. And that's a different system.

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Speaker 1: Whereas that started to shift, as the story shows, towards

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Speaker 1: this merchant class that certainly brought a great degree of

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Speaker 1: prosperity to the country and certainly did America Mendling, Chaping,

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Speaker 1: Morgan or Rockefeller but it's a different sort of person

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Speaker 1: and the skin in the game because the instruments are

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Speaker 1: so financialized and somewhat made up, or at least it's

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Speaker 1: not a real asset, it's an abstracted one. Their power

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Speaker 1: and their wealth is somewhat different, where they have a

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Speaker 1: different conception of the state of the country, the state

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Speaker 1: of prosperity, and what their duties are, if any, to

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Speaker 1: their fellow citizens. And I think that's really the big

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Speaker 1: shift you see over time, and it happens again and again.

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Speaker 3: Is this old landed elite kind of rule.

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Speaker 1: Is it going to be the Rome of the patricians

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Speaker 1: and the equities, or the Britain of the lords and gentry,

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Speaker 1: or the America of the Virginia gentry that existed for

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Speaker 1: a long time, or is it going to be a

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Speaker 1: country of merchants and bankers that are very successful but

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Speaker 1: certainly have different priorities and different priors that they bring

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Speaker 1: to the table. And it's a shift you see repeatedly,

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Speaker 1: and I think we saw it in the twentieth century.

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Speaker 2: So do you think it's a difference in the type

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Speaker 2: of wealth that they have. So you mentioned sort of

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Speaker 2: like Richie Suna, who just can move and can potentially

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Speaker 2: just take his wealth with them, because you know, whatever

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Speaker 2: it's in the markets, as opposed to the class of

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Speaker 2: the old who really had it tied up in the land,

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Speaker 2: so they got driven off the land, they had no

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Speaker 2: more assets, and so today you have this sort of oligarchy,

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Speaker 2: if you will. But they sort of have this wealth

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Speaker 2: that's like global wealth, and they could just kind of

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Speaker 2: go wherever. And you think that's sort of like one

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Speaker 2: of the main things that really changes the skin of

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Speaker 2: the game, if you will. On that.

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Speaker 3: I think that's certainly part of it.

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Speaker 1: And I think kind of the other aspect of it

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Speaker 1: is if you look at how wealth was measured in

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Speaker 1: say eighteen hundred, and the novels of Jane Austin are

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Speaker 1: great for this. It wasn't the capital value of whatever

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Speaker 1: asset was, whether bonds or land or yeah anything. It

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Speaker 1: was the income it produced, because that's what the person

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Speaker 1: who held it could live off of. And then because

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Speaker 1: they didn't have to worry about having an income, they

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Speaker 1: could serve the state and were expected to do so,

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Speaker 1: whether it was in parliament or the military. America similarly

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Speaker 1: with congress and military that died around the same time,

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Speaker 1: the shift transitions, and now we never hear about someone's income,

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Speaker 1: unless it's just some ridiculous situation. Instead we hear about

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Speaker 1: the nominal value of their capital wealth, right, And I

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Speaker 1: think what's implied by that is that it's going to

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Speaker 1: be sold, because you know, if it's a I think

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Speaker 1: Amazon doesn't pay dividend.

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Speaker 3: If you have Amazon stock, you.

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Speaker 1: Might have a huge nominal wealth, but you're going to

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Speaker 1: have to sell it to get anything out of that.

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Speaker 3: And if you're selling it, that means it's not permanent.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I think the exception there are bare assets

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Speaker 1: like bitcoin, because hopefully I don't want to sell those gold.

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Speaker 3: But you know, if it's a financial asset that's.

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Speaker 1: Not producing a yield or it's not producing income from it,

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Speaker 1: you have to sell it. And as such, your time

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Speaker 1: horizons are not infinite. They're not for you know, the

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Speaker 1: seven generations down the line. It's instead a much shorter timeline.

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Speaker 1: It's you know, what's going to happen in the next

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Speaker 1: year or two, because I'm going to need to think

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Speaker 1: about this. And I think that is something we see

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Speaker 1: with our elite is you know, Nancy Pelosi will make

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Speaker 1: a stock trade that everyone hears about or Dan Crenshaw

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Speaker 1: will do the same and everyone will hear about it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they never focus on the dividends of the companies

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Speaker 1: they trade. They're just trading them based on political events.

437
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 1: And I think we see that a lot. It's the

438
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,040
Speaker 1: sound short term ism that's inculcated by the way mel

439
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,200
Speaker 1: Leftlows measured and the global nature of it.

440
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,800
Speaker 2: Although you have you know, Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk

441
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 2: being the richest man in the world because he didn't

442
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 2: sell his stock, will trade his stock and he has

443
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 2: just owned it. Although there are stories of Musk kind

444
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 2: of being broke and having no money at all. Right,

445
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 2: I've seen resting stories of that. And then you have

446
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 2: on the other side, you have you know, not so

447
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,199
Speaker 2: much in the US, in the US as well, but

448
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 2: maybe over in England as well as like maybe multiple

449
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 2: generations that have owned a castle or some part of land,

450
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 2: but there's no income from that. So now they own

451
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,160
Speaker 2: this land, they own this castle, they can't even afford

452
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,679
Speaker 2: to keep it up. So is that just is that

453
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 2: because the wealth has shipped away from that type of

454
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 2: asset or what happened there.

455
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,719
Speaker 1: That's a really interesting story. Is so that was one

456
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 1: of the changes that happened. At the end of the

457
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 1: nineteenth century. Two things kind of came to a head.

458
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 1: One was the opening of the American Midwest. We don't

459
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 1: really think about it in these terms, but if you

460
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 1: look at what the prairie was in say eighteen seventy,

461
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 1: it was this virgin territory with fourteen fifteen feet of

462
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 1: incredibly fertile tops where you didn't need fertilizers, you could

463
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 1: just plow it and plant grain. And also railroads meant

464
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 1: that you could take that grain anywhere steamships, railroads, it

465
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 1: could go from Kansas to Britain and the relative link

466
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 1: of an eye. So this entire half of a continent

467
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: was opened up to grain growing. And I promised the

468
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 1: skin in your question, it's agriculture history.

469
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,640
Speaker 3: But all this grain was grown.

470
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 1: And the same thing was happening in the Ukrainian region

471
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: of the Russian Empire to the lesser extent. And it's

472
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 1: all this grain from this incredibly fertile soil, which meant

473
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,080
Speaker 1: the cost of production was near zero. Because of steam

474
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 1: and rail, the cost of transportation was near zero. So

475
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 1: anywhere that up to this point it had some degree

476
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 1: of struggle or at least had to care about how

477
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 1: they grew things. Could now just import it. There's so

478
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,120
Speaker 1: much grain that they could just import where people could

479
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 1: be fed and prices were low, which was good because

480
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 1: it fed people.

481
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 3: The problem was.

482
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: Without tariffs, which were called corn laws and died out

483
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,679
Speaker 1: around the end of the eighteen forties, and England and

484
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: kind of similarly elsewhere, although Prussia anyway.

485
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 3: England I think.

486
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: Is a great example because it got rid of its

487
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: corn laws so its agricultural market was open. And in

488
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 1: the eighteen seventies grain starts pouring into England, particularly the

489
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 1: end of the saving the end of the seventies, and

490
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 1: it sets up this agricultural depression because what the traditional

491
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,239
Speaker 1: tenant system was. There's a tenant farmer who rented up

492
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 1: say three hundred acre farm from the lord who owned

493
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 1: say three thousand acres, and the tenant would pay rent

494
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: to the lord and then keep the rest of the

495
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 1: profits from the farm. That worked pretty well when grain

496
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 1: was a reasonable price. When it became super cheap because

497
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,880
Speaker 1: of imports, the farms died. Both the farmers just had

498
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,439
Speaker 1: no ability to grow anything for profit anymore, and the

499
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: lords who up to that point had been renting the

500
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 1: land and then serving in the military or parliament. No

501
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 1: longer had any rents to John, so they started having

502
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: to sell things, their time horizons became shorter. Impaired with

503
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 1: that were death taxes, because up to this point, death

504
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 1: taxes had been pretty much gone. They're really briefly revived

505
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 1: under Napoleon, but because they were one of the most

506
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: hated taxes of the medieval system, just caused Baron's Wars,

507
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: caused all this trouble. The governments had got rid of them.

508
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: They came back around the turn of the century. A

509
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 1: Winston Churchill and Lord George were largely responsible for that

510
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: in Britain. In America just followed suit with Wilson, and

511
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 1: death taxes meant that now when you died, you start

512
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 1: to have to sell land. But land wasn't worth as

513
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: much because of the depression, and so it's this huge

514
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: blocks of land going on an i liquid market for

515
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: asset that no one wants, and it wiped out the estates.

516
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: It's kind of my point. So you have these grand

517
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 1: country houses, High clear Chatsworth.

518
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 3: High Cleared was falling apart.

519
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: Before Doubt and Abbey, but there's no land to fund

520
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: it because it's all been taxed away. And the problem

521
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: with those taxes was it was the nominal value of

522
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 1: the land, not the income it produced. So when they're

523
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 1: not producing income and you have to sell the whole thing, that.

524
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 3: The states just decayed. So it takes the assets out

525
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 3: of the old owners.

526
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: Who kind of cared about it for the future and

527
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: puts it in the hand to people who don't really care.

528
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 1: They're going to put a solar farm on top of it.

529
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: It's going to poison the agricultural land. And right, that's

530
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: what we're saying now. So they were just taxed away,

531
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 1: and the depression and knocks them outs with the unintended

532
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: consequences of these policies.

533
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: And that's what we see in the US today right

534
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 2: where it's like, to your point, they're putting solar panels

535
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 2: on the land, which makes it more valuable, but if

536
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 2: you want to farm it, you can't make enough income

537
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 2: to pay the taxes.

538
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: Right, you know, the American equivalent. One of the closest

539
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: ones is if you look at the main street, tap

540
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: the main street of these towns in the Midwest, it

541
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 1: used to be these thriving industrial hubs. You know, whether

542
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: it was producing lead pipe or wing nuts or shoes

543
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: or whatever it was, all of that got outsourced because

544
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: of free trade and these different policies. So now where

545
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: it used to be there's a relatively prosperous upper class

546
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: that owned the factories, middle class that kind of did

547
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: the administration of them, and working class that.

548
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 3: Worked in them.

549
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: All of that was just obliterated by these policies. So

550
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 1: now what used to be these thriving little towns that

551
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: led to human flourishing, which I think is a end

552
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: goal of civilization within them, oll now there are just

553
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: you know, some people do fentanyl there and otherwise there's

554
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: stumble weeds going through.

555
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 3: It's really har realic.

556
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,959
Speaker 2: How much of that is policy versus just technology. So

557
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: if you think about technology going back right through history,

558
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: it's always sort of changed the way that we work

559
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 2: and communicate and organized, change the balance of power, all

560
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,959
Speaker 2: of those things. Right, So, like you have the industrial

561
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 2: revolution that brought people into cities and factories. Then you

562
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 2: had you know, Henry Ford created the assembly line, which

563
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 2: created this massive middle class. Everybody sort of equal on

564
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: an assembly line almost, So then you created this mass

565
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: management system to manage everybody, like a cog in a wheel.

566
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 2: Then you created like a mass government structure to manage

567
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 2: all of that. So you have this massive middle class

568
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: because everybody was sort of equal put in their cog

569
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: on the wheel. But now we've sort of gone from

570
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 2: the industrial age to the information age, right, and so

571
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 2: now we certainly those those low pain industrial jobs have

572
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: gone overseas to lower pain workers. But in the information age,

573
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: it allows knowledge workers to excel faster because some people

574
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 2: are just smarter. There's no a dude galitarian, right, And

575
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 2: so I think about sometimes like, certainly we've sent the

576
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 2: middle class over to China. We could bring those jobs back,

577
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 2: But wouldn't that be a kin to putting people in

578
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 2: the field to pick cotton and strawberries. They're low paying

579
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: jobs today, right? And if so, how much of it

580
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: was I mean some of it was policy, for sure,

581
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 2: But how much would you say it's just times changed?

582
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 2: Technology has shifted that There are.

583
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 3: Two issues there.

584
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: One, you're definitely right that the current like knowledge economy

585
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 1: of powers the people who are able to take advantage

586
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: of that, which is good and I think a good

587
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: thing generally because people are able to do these things

588
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: they wouldn't been able to do before it costs next

589
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,239
Speaker 1: to nothing to start a business. Now, which is very

590
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: good has empowered a lot of people.

591
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 3: So I think you're right on.

592
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: That there are just these changes. I think the other side, though,

593
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: is that we still need steel. You know, we still

594
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: need natural gas, we still need oil. In some places,

595
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: these companies are able to thrive. You know, a Germany

596
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: up until the kind of recent unpleasantness had a thriving

597
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: industrial sector alongside its other thriving sectors. And I think

598
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: what you get there, what you got and say nineteen

599
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: hundred in America with McKinley, are policies meant to protect

600
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: the innovative companies that produce these things. So New Core

601
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: is a steelmaker in America that is much more efficient

602
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: than US steel. They use electric arc well, or they

603
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: use electricity rather than coal essentially for their production of steel.

604
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: From what I understand, it makes them very competitive with

605
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: the Chinese market. Say so, whereas a US steel just

606
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,719
Speaker 1: got hammered by these Chinese imports, New Core has been

607
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: able to hold on and do reasonably well. I think

608
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: what you want, though, is you want more of those

609
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: domestic jobs being produced, because not everyone can succeed in

610
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: the knowledge economy, and I think to have a thriving

611
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: internal market, you need jobs for people different ways up

612
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: the ladder. So you don't want these legacy companies just

613
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: being zombie companies and holding on because of tariffs and

614
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: drawing in resources that they shouldn't be. But you also

615
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: don't want to stifle domestic innovation by letting people who

616
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: have other interests take advantage of your market. Like when China,

617
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: for example, is subsidizing it's steel sectors so that the

618
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: price can be much lower than whatever America without those

619
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: subsidies can produce. I think that creates a problem. So

620
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: I think both sides of it are true. I think

621
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: you want to protect domestic innovation without just turning things stagnant,

622
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: which is a tough f Lind walk, But.

623
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 2: I think the important one, yeah, which gets to a

624
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: bigger question. I want to ask you which willet to,

625
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 2: which is sort of where do we go from here?

626
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 2: But as I think through this, I think about some

627
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: of these things, and I constantly kind of keep going

628
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: back to sort of like the government just getting too big,

629
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 2: and so a lot of these functions seem to be

630
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 2: or some of these maybe unintended consequences seem to be

631
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: a consequence of just government just being too big. But

632
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: then to the point that you're talking about of like,

633
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 2: how do we think about policies that can protect the

634
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 2: company these companies in these industries, and then that just

635
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 2: again keeps the government sort of getting getting big. I

636
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: want I want to come back to that though, because

637
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: you write a lot about Rhodesia. As you said, that

638
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 2: was sort of your spark that got you going to

639
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: where you're at today.

640
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,240
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641
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,480
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642
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643
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644
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645
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649
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650
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651
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652
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657
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 4: to take care of payroll, benefits, compliance and more. Again,

658
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 4: that's justworks dot Com slash podcast.

659
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 2: What do you see in in Rhodesia maybe sort of

660
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: being like a microcosm of maybe where we're at today,

661
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: and maybe what are some of the lessons that does.

662
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: Is it just lessons that sort of show where we're going,

663
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: like on a downward trajectory, or is there maybe some

664
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: lessons of how we can turn things around?

665
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's actually a great lesson in how

666
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: things can function. And it's the opposite of Rubisia is Singapore.

667
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: So as I talked about Rudizia earlier, the thing to

668
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: keep in mind is that Leekwan need the opposite of

669
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: all this, And now Singapore is one of the most

670
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: thriving places in the world.

671
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 2: So would you also to throw like Dubai into that.

672
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,479
Speaker 1: I think it's somewhat different in that its wealth was

673
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: pumped out of the ground.

674
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: I think Dubai less than one percent of GDP comes

675
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,959
Speaker 2: from oil, really less than one percent of GDP. I

676
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 2: was recently over there. I spoke at the Bigcoin conference

677
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: there in December, the first time I went there, and

678
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: I posted something on Twitter that got me crucified. I

679
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: didn't know you couldn't say nice things about Dubai and

680
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: being in La, it's a complete war zone. And I

681
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 2: just said, hey, it's just interesting because I had all

682
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: these preconceived notions of Dubai. I had never been there,

683
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: and so I had these preconceived notions, and when I

684
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: got there, I have to say, it's the most magnificent

685
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 2: city I've ever seen. I've never seen anything like it.

686
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 2: It's the whole thing's brand new, twenty years old, the

687
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 2: most technological advance, the biggest fountain, the tallest building, all

688
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: these things. But I just made a post and I said,

689
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 2: it's interesting coming from La, which has the highest taxes

690
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: in the nation, worst infrastructure of the nation, and not

691
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: a single crane in the sky. You can tell a

692
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: lot about a city by the development in Dubai has

693
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: no taxes, the cleanest and best infrastructure I've ever seen

694
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: in my life, and cranes everywhere. And then of course

695
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: I got a million comments cruise, fine, Oh you should

696
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 2: go live there. You want to live under a dictator.

697
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: You must want gay people to die, you know, Yeah,

698
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: because everyone's their slaves, and yeah, because they stole all

699
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: the oil.

700
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 3: So anyway, I had to.

701
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: Go look it up. Yeah, less than one percent comes

702
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: from oil. They have no income taxes. They have corporate

703
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: taxes of nine percent over if you make over a

704
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: certain amount. But they sort of did a say Singapore day.

705
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: It was just outcompete. But anyway, we'll table that. I

706
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: started to take it down that rabbit hole.

707
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 3: But that's really interesting. Yeah it was.

708
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 2: And again it took me going there to like, like

709
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: I said, challenge all the things. Like one thing I

710
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: look at like a major problem that the Europe Europe

711
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: has as well as America is like this immigration problem.

712
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 2: But ninety percent of people in the UAE are all emigrants.

713
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, well it's a different system.

714
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: There's a lot there.

715
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 3: There's a different system.

716
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: Of course. Let's get back to uh kind of the

717
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 2: Rhodesia and the Singapore example.

718
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you or the Dubai might be a great

719
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: example of kind of sing more strategy then, because what

720
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: I think about Singapore versus Rhodesia Zimbabwe, the big differences

721
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: are pragmatic policies that are going to embrace human flourishing

722
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: for the citizens of the country embraced or they just

723
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: hated if they don't line up with ideology. At leak

724
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: one you was non ideological. He just wanted Singapore to succeed.

725
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: And so you see the strange mix of like McKinley's

726
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: style policies with non first world leadership and some priors

727
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: that are very interesting where he's going to these conferences

728
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: in Africa post colonal Africa, but then you know, really

729
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: doing first world stuff at home. As his autobiography title

730
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 1: third World the first kind of sum set up. So

731
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: it's very pragmatic, works with the Chinese, works with the America,

732
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: and it's this mix of stuff that whatever he needs

733
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: to do. And so Singpour is a huge success story

734
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: because of that. He embraced this pragmatism. Rhodesia, on the

735
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: other hand, under the Ian Smith government very much did

736
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: that and worked with everyone to the Drew Creet could,

737
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: But then Mugabe did not. He famously just destroyed the

738
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: country by seizing the white farms and has that in Zimbabwe.

739
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 3: Yes, so Zimbabwe.

740
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: So Rhodesia became called Zimbabwe when Mudagia was elected in

741
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty in a very corrupt election.

742
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: So so Rhodesia was a colony of the.

743
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 3: UK kind of. It's an interesting story.

744
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: So Jamestown is you probably know, was a company colony

745
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: that subscriptions were raised with the Virginia Company to make Jamestown.

746
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 3: Rodzia was somewhat similar.

747
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: Cecil Rhodes was this big promoter of the British Empire

748
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 1: and he both wanted a railroad from the Cape to Cairo,

749
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: so from South Africa to Egypt, and needed the middle

750
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: of Africa to do that, and also just thought it

751
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: was a good thing for the English Empire to expand

752
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: because of the benefits for everyone involved, both for raising

753
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: up the natives and for providing more resources and export

754
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: markets for the home market. So he saw that there

755
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: was this vast tract of territory north of South Africa

756
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: that was almost unpopulated. There had been some large wars

757
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 1: amongst the Africans that meant the population was very low,

758
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: and the population that was there was largely welcoming to

759
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: British settlement. Is the forget the name of the chief,

760
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: but it was the Neballet tribe was in charge at

761
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: the time, and there welcomed the British more or less

762
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: so roads put together this company called the British South

763
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: Africa company that using largely funding from England, and then

764
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: men gathered in England and South Africa, and he was

765
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: looking for men of higher.

766
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 3: Quality than you might expect. There were many pirate types.

767
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: It sent them into Rhodesia to settle the land, and

768
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 1: he was really hoping was to settle it so that

769
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: it was a stable conne where he could put a

770
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: railroad through it, and that they'd find gold because at

771
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: the time the rand mind in South Africa were just

772
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: producing this huge flood of gold that helped the world

773
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: economy coud bit and made the owner's fabulously wealthy. So

774
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: rhodes wanted that tappen again in Rhodesia. He struck out

775
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: on the goal. There wasn't much there, but they did

776
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: find the lands are fertile and it was very great

777
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: for growing tobacco. So Rhodesia became this company owned essentially agricultural,

778
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: unto a lesser remining settlement where these large estates were

779
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: built up, because there's no history of agriculture there at

780
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: least any real degree. So unlike Britain, where farms were

781
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: constrained by say the three hundred acres in the all

782
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 1: defenses of stone surrounding it and made really doing anything

783
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: on a mechanical scale difficult. In Rhodesia, there's no one there,

784
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: so you could just use a tractor and go from

785
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: horizon to horizon, back and forth, and you could really

786
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: take advantage of the efficiency.

787
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 3: So it became this.

788
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: Hugely successful agricultural colony where their main export was tobacco

789
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 1: and to a lesser free wheat and cattle. So under

790
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 1: British South Africa Company it thrived until nineteen twenty one

791
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: when it became self governing and the company was no

792
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: longer in charge.

793
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 2: Okay, and then it continued on self governing and Til

794
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 2: Moubobby came and turned it back into Zimbabwe in the eighties.

795
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it remained part of the Commonwealth until nineteen

796
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 1: sixty five. What happened then was so from nineteen twenty

797
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: to nineteen sixty five it continued attracting settlement brought in.

798
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: It had very strict immigration quality or controls, because they

799
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: only wanted people who would integrate to the local environment

800
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: to move there, so very strict and not a ton

801
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: of people fled in, but enough to build it up

802
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: as an economy.

803
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 3: The problem was.

804
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: That Britain after the mid fifties was very hostile to

805
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: its empire.

806
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 3: It wanted to shed it.

807
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: It wanted mass democracy to rule in place of kind

808
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 1: of European directed and led government. So first Kenya fell

809
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: apart and a lot of the Empire started to decay.

810
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: But then the Belgians who owned the Congo gave it

811
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: up to the Congolese. And what followed was a like

812
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: a parade of horrors that are absolutely awful, particularly the

813
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: Simba Rebellion, which was in like sixty two, sixty three,

814
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: maybe sixty four, I can't quite remember, but in the

815
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: early sixties it was just like all the Belgian nuns

816
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: in the Congo were killed by these rebels, along with

817
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: a lot of Conguise villagers.

818
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 3: There are just these.

819
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: Huge humanitarian catastrophes. And so the Rhodesians looked at the

820
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 1: Congo and said, well, we don't want to do that.

821
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: We don't want to turn into this just anarcic hellhole.

822
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: We want a stable, responsible government. They call it responsible government.

823
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: And the British said, well, no, you need mass democracy

824
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: if you're going to remain part of the empire or

825
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 1: detach yourself from that. We want mass democracy, we want

826
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: local rule, not white rule in Rhodesia, which was a

827
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: problem because the African chiefs who inside Rdisia directed much

828
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: of the black political power and general functioning administration. Agreed

829
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: with Ian Smith, who was the Prime Minister of Rhodesia

830
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: at the time, that really you need this responsible government

831
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 1: system the Rhodesians had built up, which was a property

832
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: voting one. As I hinted at earlier, it wasn't a

833
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: part idly in South Africa. There weren't these strict racial rules.

834
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: There weren't really any racial rules except for schooling.

835
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 3: And for politics. For voting, it was simply that to

836
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 3: vote in the national.

837
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: List, the A list, you needed to have the modern

838
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: equivalent of about sixty thousand U s dollars of Rhodesian property.

839
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 1: So whether I was a farm where there's a house

840
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: doc and a rodishan company, whatever, you just needed that

841
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: to be able to vote in national election.

842
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 3: They found that screened out.

843
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: The people who couldn't make good decisions, and we're pretty

844
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: successful in doing it. And that's a system that they

845
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: had as they rose to prominence and success. The British

846
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: said that system was racist, demand to get rid of it,

847
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: and so that sparked the Unilateral Decoration Independence in nineteen

848
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: sixty five, where Rhodesia, using language drawn from the American

849
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: Decoration Independence, broke away from the British Commonwealth and became

850
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 1: a fully independent country. But except for Portugal, South Africa

851
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: and Israel, the rest of the world didn't didn't legitimize that,

852
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 1: didn't recognize it as a country. So it led to

853
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: this Bush War from nineteen sixty five to nineteen eighty

854
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: or communist rebels that were backed by the Chinese and

855
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: the Russians and also the Americans. The British attacked Rhodesia

856
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: and tried to end it and bring in Mugabe, who

857
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: was a dictator, and it eventually ended in his victory.

858
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean then that's just continued across Africa,

859
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: the decolonization, if you will. I've looked into pretty extensively,

860
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: like what happened in South Africa, and I saw someone

861
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 2: post just yesterday. I mean that seems like the whole

862
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 2: African continent is sort of under some sort of war

863
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 2: at this point.

864
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a.

865
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: Spat and I think the Congo right now between the

866
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: South African military and I think Bulgarian military on one

867
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: hand and the Rwandans on the other, and the Rwandans

868
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: just one.

869
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 3: But it's terrible.

870
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: And if you look at what happened there, and the

871
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: Congo is another good example, there were ways to end

872
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: the chaos. Very early on in my core he might

873
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: have heard of was a South African mercenary who at

874
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: the request of the Congolese government ended the sembl rebellion

875
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: and wanted to after the rebellion bring continued stability to

876
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: the country. But the UN forced them out because it

877
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 1: was a majority white militia or mercenary outfit, and they said, well,

878
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: that's racist and you have to leave. And so then

879
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: the Congo got five decades of civil war with millions

880
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: de millions of people dead because of that. And so

881
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: it's very much the opposite of Singapore or instead of

882
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: these pragmatic policies, you get this race communism essentially.

883
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 2: When I look at the Singapore example of the Dubai example,

884
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 2: I mean again Singapore in Dubai seems to have set

885
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:33,240
Speaker 2: up a system that just sort of outcompeted in Dubai,

886
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 2: I mean, their immigration is very strict, right, unless you're

887
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 2: gonna be a productive member of society. You're not invited.

888
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 2: It's an invite on these society. But at the same time,

889
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 2: they don't have all that industrialization to protect, right, they

890
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 2: don't have steel companies to protect, so like Well, on

891
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 2: one hand, that type of government seems to make sense,

892
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 2: and it certainly has worked on a small scale, as

893
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 2: we can point to at Singapore, maybe Hong Kong to

894
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 2: some extent Dubai, et cetera. That doesn't necessarily apply apples

895
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 2: to apples over to the US, right, because the US

896
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: needs to be almost more protectionist of their industries that

897
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 2: they have. I think that's what you're sort of alluding

898
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 2: to earlier.

899
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the policies you get from that sort

900
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: of government are different and tailored to local circumstances.

901
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 3: You know.

902
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: One of leakwon U's famous innovations was he put air

903
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: conditioning in every government office so that the bureaucrats would

904
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: work in the afternoon instead of taking siestas, and it

905
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: hugely boosted Singapore's governing capacity without having to bring on

906
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: more people. You don't really need that in New York

907
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 1: for London, and it's not the same thing. But I

908
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: do think if you look at, say, what's the similarity

909
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 1: between Leekwon Yu and the President Kinley. It's this non

910
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 1: ideological view of events and economics where they're going to

911
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: take whatever step is necessary to protect the wealth of

912
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: the nation and the stability of the nation, but do

913
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: so because it will work condision's history of it working,

914
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: not because some ideologic, ideological belief told them they had

915
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: to do it.

916
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 3: It's I think that's the similarity.

917
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: When you talk about the colonies, as we just kind

918
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 2: of talked about, it seems like everything in life that

919
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 2: there's just trade offs. You know, Alex Gladstein, I'm sure

920
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 2: you've come across his work plenty and he is, you know,

921
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: one hundred percent and thinking that the colonies are the

922
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 2: worst thing in the world. And from his viewpoint and

923
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 2: the things that he talks about, the way that the

924
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 2: French use the CFA to you know, debase the currency.

925
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 2: I get it that those two like really bad things.

926
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 2: I can also see how there's also good things that happened, right,

927
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 2: So they did bring civilization technology order to things that

928
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 2: didn't have that before. So I think there's trade offs.

929
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 3: Maybe would you agree with that absolutely?

930
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's good things about colonization, but there's also

931
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 2: bad things. It can be misused and abused, just like

932
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: any other policy probably for that matter. So you know,

933
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 2: to the point of removing the colonization is like entropy,

934
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 2: and now it's just into chaos and evolving into you know,

935
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 2: mass disorder, which is not good. So I guess what

936
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: I'd like to maybe just pivot into and sort of

937
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 2: to wrap this up is, you know, now you're well

938
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 2: versed in history. You've seen the differences of what happened

939
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 2: with the French Revolution versus the American Revolution, all the

940
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 2: way back to Roman Empire and even Socrates the way

941
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 2: they think about this and the colonization. You know, you've

942
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,439
Speaker 2: mentioned a couple of times, you know, sort of how

943
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: democracy fails and the reasons for that. Obviously, America was

944
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: founded as a republic, not a democracy. I'm curious what

945
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 2: you think to be sort of this way forward, maybe

946
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 2: first just for the United States, and then maybe how

947
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 2: that fits into the world and then maybe I'm sure,

948
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 2: since you're so well read, you're probably also from with

949
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 2: the sovereign individual thesis and which way forward and do

950
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 2: you think maybe it goes in that direction?

951
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot there.

952
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 2: Okay, just break it down yeah.

953
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: So the first thing in America, you have to stop

954
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,720
Speaker 1: the entropy, and I think that's often like the biggest

955
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: hurdle because it has this vibe, for lack of a better.

956
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 3: Word, of paternalism.

957
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: You have to stop people from doing X or stop

958
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: people from ten y. So if you don't want you know,

959
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: some woman lit on fire in the subway, as happened

960
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: in New York recently, you don't want these like random

961
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: attacks in the street. You don't want crime that calls

962
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: for a stronger stance against things. You don't necessarily need

963
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: a bigger government. You don't necessarily need cameras on every

964
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: street corner that didn't have them in eighteen ninety, but

965
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 1: you do need to have a just we're not going

966
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: to deal with this approach to things.

967
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 2: Which I think is actual punishment. Yes, yeah, actual punishment.

968
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 2: Whether it's not like here in California, where you can

969
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 2: steal up to one thousand dollars without a being crime.

970
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, in Singapore, they'll cane you where they tie you

971
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: the ladder and hit you with a stick, and that

972
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: works pretty well in terms of stopping this petty crime,

973
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Based on the country, you just have

974
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: to find something where people aren't going to commit these crimes.

975
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 3: The entropy's going to stop, and you know that.

976
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: I think we know how to do, we just don't

977
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: want to. But it's this tough one crime approach, whether

978
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: you're putting in people in jail like Bukla or hitting

979
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 1: them with rods like in Singapore something. The step after

980
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: that is, I think you need to get rid of

981
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: the short termism. At these short time horizons have just

982
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: proven devastating to society, particularly industrial ones, where you have

983
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: to take these long term steps to preserve and build

984
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: the wealth of the nation. So how do you do that.

985
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,280
Speaker 1: That's really a situation that situation thing. I think for companies,

986
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: for example, because we talked about that earlier, you'd want

987
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 1: to use probably the SEC guidance to encourage companies to

988
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: think about the health of the company both during and

989
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: after the CEO's tenure for pay and pushing it out

990
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: rather than just the short termism. But you know, that's

991
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: kind of up to companies and stuff. I think the

992
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: bigger thing politically is finding ways to put limits on

993
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: mass democracy that work with our culture. Ever since Jackson,

994
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,959
Speaker 1: we've been somewhat of a universal suffrage nation. That's worked

995
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 1: okay in some regards, so it definitely probably works okay

996
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: for the House of Representatives. I do think the Senate

997
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: is supposed to be different, So either removing the amendment

998
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: about the Senate being a popular vote rather than state vote,

999
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: or finding some way to do a new update a

1000
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: new amendment about that I think would be helpful. I

1001
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 1: think also you'd probably want to look at something about

1002
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,439
Speaker 1: a new amendment for voting where only net taxpayers could vote.

1003
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: I mean, preferably we're not going to have the income tax,

1004
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: but if we are, you don't want the people who

1005
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 1: can loot the treasury doing so. You want to have

1006
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,399
Speaker 1: the people who are contributing something on net to both

1007
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: the governments.

1008
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 2: Again as a game, yeah, skin in the game exactly.

1009
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 2: I've also thought that's like the easiest requirement. If you

1010
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,319
Speaker 2: don't pay tax, you just shouldn't vote. Like just back

1011
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 2: to my homeowner example, if I don't live in the

1012
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 2: neighborhood anymore, if I don't own the home in the neighborhood,

1013
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 2: I probably shouldn't vote either.

1014
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: Right, And you could kind of go down the rabbit

1015
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: hole of specificity with that, But I think broadly the

1016
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 1: mindset should be. How are we going to limit democracy

1017
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: somewhat so that we can bring about long term thinking

1018
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 1: With whatever you work, I think the net taxpayer thing

1019
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 1: is probably the lowest hanging for you, just because you know,

1020
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: everyone who's a productive citizen degreews with that more or less.

1021
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 3: Some don't, but most do. So there's that.

1022
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 1: Hey, I've talked about those people before, and this is

1023
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 1: the much tougher question. But inculcating virtue in people, both

1024
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: just those who kind of exist and definitely those who lead,

1025
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 1: is an important thing either. The Founding fathers after the Bible,

1026
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: the most common ancient work on their.

1027
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 3: Shelf was Plutarch's Lives.

1028
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:30,399
Speaker 1: And Plutarch was a writer and early Empire Rome who

1029
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: discussed the lie. He called it the Lives of the

1030
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: Noble Romans and Grecians, and it was the great men

1031
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 1: of Greece and the great men of Rome, and discussing

1032
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: their character traits, both moral failings and moral virtues, and

1033
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: of course their stands some reality of someone different in

1034
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: Rome than ours. But he discussed them, and if you

1035
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: still go back and read them, very useful. And that's

1036
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: a small example. But no school teaches Plutarch now, even

1037
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: though our founding fathers when they wrote our constitution and

1038
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: built our government, they're doing it with Plutarch in mind.

1039
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 2: And that is because you can't legislate morality right right.

1040
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 3: But you can't teach it.

1041
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: I think so, I you know, our education system is

1042
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,399
Speaker 1: flawed in many ways. I do think you voluntarily want

1043
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 1: to teach people to have the right morals. And everyone

1044
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: has a different opinion on the right morals. But I think,

1045
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 1: you know, generally this idea of stewardship and the duty

1046
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: and sacrifice are good things for people to think of, because.

1047
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 2: Do you think do you think that's also like that

1048
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 2: that at that point I heard Jordan Peterson talk about that,

1049
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 2: So like build a country is built on Judeo Christian principles,

1050
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: have that self sacrifice built in, which is why somebody

1051
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 2: may get out at five and five am or three

1052
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 2: am in a in a in a hurricane to go

1053
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 2: fix a power line, where in another country maybe they

1054
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 2: wouldn't do that. But also, like you know, early in

1055
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 2: America too, people went to church and people gave it

1056
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 2: the church, and the church took care of the needy.

1057
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 2: And today without that, it seems like a lot of

1058
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:54,720
Speaker 2: people expect the state to take care of the need.

1059
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: Right well, and you know that's another opportunity for a

1060
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: form that I think would be helpful. So you have

1061
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: the virtue angle, but then you just have the practicality

1062
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 1: of it. As talking with someone yesterday about you know,

1063
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: Trump is trying to slash if it's Wick or one

1064
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: of the other foodstamp programs.

1065
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 3: But he says, it's just abused. We need to get

1066
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 3: rid of it.

1067
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:15,879
Speaker 1: There're different opinions on that, but I think it's very

1068
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: true that it's abused. People have known about this for ages.

1069
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 1: The ways you're able to get around it and use

1070
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: it to put money in your pocket. So you know,

1071
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: what separates that from a food bank is that the

1072
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 1: food bank is generally run by a church or some

1073
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: other organization that cares about the community. It's all local,

1074
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: where it's local people drawing from it and contributing to it.

1075
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: So there's these ties that bind you know, people in

1076
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: the community, and so it's limited. They're not just going

1077
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: to keep giving you pasta to sell to buy cigarettes with.

1078
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: They're going to, you know, expect you to feature family

1079
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: with it. And what that does is it gets rid

1080
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: of this concept of just philanthropy is this broad exercise

1081
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: where once you contribute the money, you don't have to

1082
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: worry about it, whether it's tax dollars or whether it's

1083
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: giving a billion dollars to some African country for mosquito nets.

1084
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: They're just skins for fishing and over fish. Instead, it's

1085
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 1: more no less oblieged. It's this older system that you

1086
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: have a duty to those around you. You should be

1087
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 1: attached to the people in your community into what you

1088
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: can for them, and so you know, whether it's church

1089
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 1: or whether it's something secular and just built around making

1090
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: at work. As a Christian, I'd say the church is

1091
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: more useful for this.

1092
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 2: But the problem is the secular people don't. Most secular

1093
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 2: people don't have that self sacrifice, right right.

1094
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, there's a host of problems.

1095
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think drawing things.

1096
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 1: In locally, kind of what we were talking about earlier

1097
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: with what changes you need to make, I do think

1098
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: localism will be helpful because every community's needs are different

1099
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 1: and also the opportunities there are different. So taking things

1100
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: away from the federal government's ability to dictate them and

1101
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 1: putting in them, putting them in the hands of local

1102
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: people of prominence I think would be hugely helpful, both

1103
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 1: on the charity and self sacrifice angle. But then also

1104
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,360
Speaker 1: I'm making America prosperous again.

1105
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So I want to ask you the question

1106
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 2: of which way forward. But based off of all of that,

1107
00:50:57,719 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 2: it sounds like you still have a lot of help

1108
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 2: for the future.

1109
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,279
Speaker 3: I do. I think a lot of people blackfill.

1110
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: They just have this sense of doom, which you're even

1111
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 1: somewhere like Spain or France that might be closer to reality.

1112
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 3: I think of a debt everything, they're gonna have a

1113
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:13,240
Speaker 3: lot of trouble.

1114
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 1: But I think in America we still just because our

1115
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: society became so prosperous and effective and really good at things,

1116
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 1: we have this vast store of capital that we're able

1117
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: to draw down and build on. And we've been in

1118
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 1: the draw down stage for a while. That's why things

1119
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 1: are getting worse. That's why, as you mentioned, the roads

1120
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: are just awful everywhere, and you can't go to the

1121
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: mall because you'll get shot. But it can also be

1122
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: built upon. We have all these things where you know,

1123
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: we had an effective society, We have all the remnants

1124
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 1: of it. We just need to rebuild it in a

1125
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 1: different way that works better than the last one did.

1126
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,439
Speaker 1: But I think in America we should certainly have hope

1127
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 1: that a lot of these things can be improved and fixed,

1128
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: and once we fix them and kind of move forward,

1129
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: I think there's a good reason for hope.

1130
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 2: So then moving forward, we'll finish it up with this

1131
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 2: like I throughout the sovereign individual thesis.

1132
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 3: And so for those that don't know, I mean, it's.

1133
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 2: A book written and you should certainly read that book.

1134
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 2: I like it sort of my worldview, but it sort

1135
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 2: of paints this picture back to kind of going into

1136
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 2: this information age of us being able to sort of

1137
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 2: move more globally, if you will, because we're in cyberspace,

1138
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 2: not being tied down as much to one local area,

1139
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 2: like we kind of talked about like the old lords

1140
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 2: of the past that had their land in the local area.

1141
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 3: But it also talked.

1142
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 2: About a structure of small sort of entrepreneurial driven skin

1143
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 2: in the game localities or small governments, if you will,

1144
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 2: maybe not unlike what the United States was meant to

1145
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 2: be at some point in its founding. What do you

1146
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 2: think the way forward is?

1147
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 1: I think one kind of issue with framing of just

1148
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 1: that esis generally is we've tried the atomized individual thing,

1149
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: and it works out very poorly for a lot of people.

1150
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 3: There are some people who thrive in.

1151
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 1: That circumstance, but you also get a lot of depths

1152
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: of despair and people like having a community to which

1153
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 1: they're attached. And now that doesn't mean you need a

1154
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 1: big government, that doesn't mean you need all the trappings

1155
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: we have now.

1156
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,720
Speaker 3: But I do think that at least for most.

1157
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,839
Speaker 1: People, some degree of community is a useful exercise and

1158
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: something that they want. So then I think the question becomes,

1159
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: how do you build community in a way that you're

1160
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: both self sovereign and the community is sovereign. And I

1161
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 1: don't know if you're familiar with it, but Blagie, I

1162
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: won't try pronouncing his last names.

1163
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 3: Trinavastin wrote that book.

1164
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 2: That never state.

1165
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:30,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I do think the concept of city states

1166
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 1: of the future Singapore and Dubai. Of course your city

1167
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: states is a very useful one because those are bigger

1168
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: city states. But the community that can be built and

1169
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: the sovereignty that can be built by building a new

1170
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: prosperous place, I think is something that we're going to

1171
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,399
Speaker 1: see more of. Prospera is trying to figure it out

1172
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 1: off the coast of Honduras, I think, and there's c

1173
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: stetting some other things. I think that free cities type

1174
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: thing is something that really helped Europe get its way

1175
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 1: out of the Middle Ages and is something that would

1176
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 1: help us now with kind of our present dark age.

1177
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: So I don't think it's individual atomization, but I do

1178
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 1: think the breaking up of some of these old calcified

1179
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 1: states and forms is going to be both going to

1180
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: happen and going to be useful as it happens.

1181
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, not the individual to the person thesis,

1182
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 2: but just like as I said, sort of like you know,

1183
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 2: the US is fifty independent states as opposed to everything

1184
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 2: being federal, right where like now three hundred and thirty

1185
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 2: million people live under one regime where it's supposed to

1186
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:27,920
Speaker 2: be sort of like one state. And then even to

1187
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 2: the point where the states have gotten way bigger and

1188
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 2: probably should have been cut up at some point even

1189
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 2: as well, right so, and then maybe going back to

1190
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 2: like a county structure, ye, just if you will.

1191
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: Right, well, yeah, and that's the one thing people forget.

1192
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: It's clear though if you read works of the time,

1193
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 1: that the county was the unit people depended on. Gone

1194
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 1: with the Wind is that famous book about Civil war Georgia,

1195
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: But in it they rarely talk about the state. They

1196
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: never talk about either of the national governments. It's the county.

1197
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: You know, what are people in the county doing to mobilize?

1198
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 1: What's county leadership looking like? Who are the men of

1199
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,879
Speaker 1: note in the county? And that condense things locally where

1200
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 1: it's a useful thing to care about because you know

1201
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 1: about the problem children. You know, you know about the

1202
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: people have not It's more useful and more manageable as

1203
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: a human And you know, the information age has expanded

1204
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: the ability to be useful somewhat, but I still think

1205
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: there are only so many things you can keep track

1206
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: of even with computers.

1207
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 2: Do you think that bitcoin can sort of help to

1208
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 2: shape I would say, but maybe even force that a

1209
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 2: little bit, right where like if if it does, you

1210
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 2: know what, what I think is sort of maybe separating

1211
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 2: money in state and which would then sort of limit

1212
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:38,720
Speaker 2: the states never ending ability to grow. Then it sort

1213
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 2: of sets constraints on what they're able to do.

1214
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's hopeful.

1215
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: I think the problem with relying on it completely is

1216
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 1: that Prussia existed during the gold standard era, as did

1217
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 1: the Czars Russia, and I know those are different than that.

1218
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,920
Speaker 1: There are the gold standards different from bitcoin, but tyranny

1219
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 1: can still exist in a hard money world.

1220
00:55:58,760 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 3: I think, what's the.

1221
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: Most useful or most hopeful thing about bitcoin, as you

1222
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: as you're talking about with your neighbor, but the ability

1223
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: to move, vote with your feet and say I'm done

1224
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: with this, I'm not putting up with anymore, because it's

1225
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: the perfect bearer hasset where you can just leave.

1226
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the thing was like Pressia and just I

1227
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 2: mean just wars and tyranny with the gold standard is

1228
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 2: like to the point that you made earlier about the

1229
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 2: lords of old, like I could just get up and

1230
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 2: leave with all my wealth, so then I was certainly

1231
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 2: under that thumb of tyranny as well as if you

1232
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 2: came and took me over, you also took all my wealth,

1233
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 2: so that made the return, as the sovereignividuals say, right,

1234
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 2: the return on violence is very high. Right, But if

1235
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 2: you can't come and take me over and take my wealth,

1236
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:44,359
Speaker 2: or if I could just leave and take my wealth

1237
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:46,359
Speaker 2: with me, then it makes the return on vines very low.

1238
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 3: Right. I think there's something there. I think you're right.

1239
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 1: I think you know the barons, for example, if you

1240
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: read about the Plantagenet kings in England, so kind of

1241
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 1: up to the fourteen hundreds, all these barrens wars where

1242
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: the king would try and take something and they'd say, well,

1243
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: we're not doing this, We're going to fight. I think

1244
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,839
Speaker 1: kind of how gold and silver enabled that at the time,

1245
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: because if you pay mercenaries with gold or silver and

1246
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:12,799
Speaker 1: you know them or as people that rely on you,

1247
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 1: there's not really anything an outside force can do about that.

1248
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: They can try and stop you, but that's different from saying,

1249
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: as happens with credit cards or cash, now you can't

1250
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: do that. We're going to stop you before you get

1251
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,919
Speaker 1: I think bitcoin is kind of helpful like you're talking about,

1252
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 1: and that even if someone comes for you, they can't

1253
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: mess with you in the same way they can with cash.

1254
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: So I think it's very useful and I think it's

1255
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: hopeful for liberty moving forward. I think the ways we'll

1256
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: see a play out are probably gonna be unexpected, at

1257
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: least from what I'm thinking about.

1258
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 3: But I think these city states are.

1259
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: Going to be powered by bitcoin, powered by just similar

1260
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: type of things that take, as you said, money out

1261
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: of the state's hands.

1262
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1263
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 2: All right, Well we covered a lot of ground that's

1264
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 2: super fascinating. I love history, not near as much as

1265
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 2: you do, but hopefully everybody thought this was as interesting

1266
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 2: as I did. I'm certainly going to link to a

1267
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 2: bunch of your writing down below in the show notes

1268
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 2: down below, so people can get caught up and read

1269
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 2: your stuff, anything that you want to point their attention

1270
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 2: to specifically.

1271
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you go to either my Twitter or my substack,

1272
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: which will probably be linked up, just the top articles

1273
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: that are on there where I've written about this stuff

1274
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: the most. So if anything interested you, it's probably on

1275
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: there too. You can just find more about it contact

1276
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: me through Twitter, all right, thanks so much. Well, yeah,

1277
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: thanks for having me on