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Speaker 1: Are we going to do it?

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Speaker 2: Are we going to do the vaccine episode as a

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Speaker 2: classic tonight?

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Speaker 3: May?

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Speaker 1: Maybe we should just Yeah, I hope it aged well.

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Speaker 1: That's that's all I'm going to say.

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Speaker 3: I think it did well. Let's say this original episode

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Speaker 3: came out in July twenty nineteen. Yeah, it near months

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Speaker 3: before a pandemic rocked the world and vaccinations became the topic.

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Speaker 1: D jore all right, but an issue. We have to

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Speaker 1: say this.

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Speaker 2: We get accused of preseats not infrequently, usually when we're

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Speaker 2: when we're exploring something, it's because our research has indicated

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Speaker 2: what do we call it, a statistical inevitability, sure or certitude.

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Speaker 2: This is very interesting. I love the point about how

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Speaker 2: well or not well this has aged.

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Speaker 3: Do you guys remember how pro vaccination we are in

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Speaker 3: this Nope, We're a crazy pro vaccination is And in

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Speaker 3: a way that is like us trying to be helpful

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Speaker 3: because we're trying to go with the science and we're like,

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Speaker 3: this seems like a really great thing on the whole.

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Speaker 2: Guys, I think we also correct, we course correct the

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Speaker 2: popular misconceptions about Tuskegee.

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Speaker 1: This might be the one.

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Speaker 2: Where, of course, people would be anti vaccination knowing that

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Speaker 2: horrid piece of history. But we share this together, fellow

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Speaker 2: listeners as a sort of time capsule.

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Speaker 3: Time capsule that you may or may not want to

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Speaker 3: inject into your ears.

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Speaker 1: Or right into your neck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's roll it.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 4: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 3: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 2: They called me Ben. We were joined as always with

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Speaker 2: our super producer, Paul Mission Control Deca. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 2: are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff

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Speaker 2: they don't want you to know, and it is a doozy.

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Speaker 2: But first, as we've been doing recently, let's let's check

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Speaker 2: in Noel, how are you doing.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing okay. I'm still kind of nursing this scooter

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Speaker 1: injury to my arm, but I'm at about seventy five

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Speaker 1: percent maybe last time I was at sixty five. Show

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Speaker 1: steadily on the men.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you've been shaking hands with your right hand.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but it really sucks when someone has a really,

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Speaker 1: really powerful handshake. It sets me back a couple of

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Speaker 1: percentage points. My recovery.

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Speaker 2: Powerful handshakes are such a literally a weird flex.

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Speaker 1: I think so too.

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Speaker 2: What about you, Matt, how's it going.

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Speaker 3: I've been practicing my power shakes, my power handshakes. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'm great. Everything's Everything's good.

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Speaker 2: There's a new Magic the Gathering set coming out one

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Speaker 2: of our one of our SuperMods. I believe it was

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Speaker 2: Zach who recently had a birthday, So happy birthday to

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Speaker 2: you u. Zach just pointed it out. We were talking

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Speaker 2: on our behind the scenes chat.

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Speaker 3: Nice. I'm still behind on all that I need to

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Speaker 3: catch up again, but happy birthday, Zach, and thanks for

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Speaker 3: letting us know.

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Speaker 2: And your birthday's coming up as well, so act surprised

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Speaker 2: and don't buy any magic cards.

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Speaker 1: Oh you know what. We all have the same birthday month, right,

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Speaker 1: except for Paul. Except for Paul on now Paul mission control.

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Speaker 2: Paul I believe is in September. Paul, how are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Thumbs up, thumbs down, thumbs up, fu.

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Speaker 1: Speaking thumb yes, he does well.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of birthdays, we're going to talk about something that

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Speaker 3: that occurs on well around your first birthday and in

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Speaker 3: theory and then continues to happen to you and in

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Speaker 3: scheduled times throughout your life, depending on where you live

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Speaker 3: and if you decide to do it, if you can

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Speaker 3: or cannot.

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Speaker 2: Again depend on where you live, because in some places

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Speaker 2: it is mandatory no if sands or butts.

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Speaker 1: And perform and tell you the episode.

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Speaker 2: For everyone who doesn't read the titles before they before

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Speaker 2: they listen, what we're exploring today is going to be

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Speaker 2: a bit of a hot topic, even for us, not

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Speaker 2: the store. So as you're listening along, don't hesitate. If

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Speaker 2: you have input, feel free to just pause the podcast

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Speaker 2: and give us a call.

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Speaker 3: Yeah one std w TK.

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Speaker 2: You have three minutes. You can call back if you

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Speaker 2: need to expound further, but make the best use of

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Speaker 2: your time, and most importantly, let us know if you

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Speaker 2: do not want us to air what you said.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to stop the show to take your call,

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Speaker 1: but we will get it eventually and then you know,

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Speaker 1: use that on a later call in show.

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Speaker 3: That's right. And by the way, we have entirely too

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Speaker 3: many messages right now for me to go through all

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Speaker 3: of them, so we might have to divide that up.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, Matt, that's on my list. I will

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Speaker 2: I will take some of this burden off you and

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Speaker 2: thank you for being a one man army.

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Speaker 1: There, yes a lie. Just give me that Ring Central

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Speaker 1: log in and I'll get the app and have it

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Speaker 1: on my phone so it wakes me up in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the night too, all right, And.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of speaking of waking up or being woke, we

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Speaker 2: are finally doing it, folks, fellow conspiracy realist, true believers

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Speaker 2: and hardcore skeptics alike. This is the episode on vaccination. Paul,

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Speaker 2: can we get a dramatic sound cue?

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Speaker 1: Perfect?

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Speaker 2: Depending upon who you ask, vaccines are either absolute life

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Speaker 2: savers human lives, not the candy which is awesome favorite

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Speaker 2: flavors cherry obviously, or if you ask someone else, they

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Speaker 2: may be something sinister pushed upon the population through false

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Speaker 2: and misleading information. For our part here, we want I

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Speaker 2: wanted to explore this by looking at the history of vaccination,

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Speaker 2: the history of anti vaccination movements, sort of the shadow

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Speaker 2: of vaccination that has been there for as long as

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Speaker 2: widespread vaccination existed, and the current state of health today,

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Speaker 2: with a little bit about the trends going into twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty and the near to mid future spoiler alert, we

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Speaker 2: do not get to everything. There will probably have to

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Speaker 2: be later episodes about this, related both to feedback from

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Speaker 2: our fellow listeners and different topics such as forced vaccinations

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Speaker 2: in the military or in prisons and so on. However,

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Speaker 2: at the offset, we need to be very, very crystal

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Speaker 2: clear here we do have an agenda. We have a

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Speaker 2: single agenda the four of us in today's episode, and

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Speaker 2: that is tracing the causes and motivations behind various allegations

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Speaker 2: of conspiracy in this subject. We were not prevented from

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Speaker 2: making this episode, nor were we worn against it. We

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Speaker 2: were not told to find some specific conclusion by any

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Speaker 2: third party. I know a lot of folks have written

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Speaker 2: to us and said, iHeart is making you do things guys,

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Speaker 2: our show.

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Speaker 1: They don't even listen to it. Yeah, I heeart does

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Speaker 1: not care what we do. They've got big fish to fry,

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Speaker 1: exactly exactly. To be completely clear, we've never been told

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Speaker 1: what to do or not to do ever, no matter

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Speaker 1: what the parent company, and this is absolutely no exception.

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Speaker 2: Right right. A few years back, I think we mentioned

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Speaker 2: this previously. A few years back, we were asked by

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Speaker 2: Discovery Communications to do one thing and I talked about

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Speaker 2: this on Here's where it gets crazy. We were asked

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Speaker 2: to do a They put out this fairly exploitative, manipulative

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Speaker 2: thing purporting to be a documentary about the discovery of mermaids, right,

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Speaker 2: and they asked us to do an episode as if

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Speaker 2: it were a real thing, and we refused.

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Speaker 3: That's right, We just made one about the folklore about

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Speaker 3: surrounding mermaids.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, we were super We were super shady to

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Speaker 2: our pary company the entire time.

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Speaker 1: And that's where the line between like sponsored content and

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Speaker 1: fake news kind of comes in to play, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: It's one thing to do kind of a hoax show

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Speaker 1: to try to prop up some kind of like you know,

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Speaker 1: big event television thing, but it's another thing to say, well, hey, okay,

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Speaker 1: y'all do your thing, but we're going to do something

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Speaker 1: that maybe is in the same vein as this, But

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Speaker 1: we're not going to be your Patsy's and pretend like

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Speaker 1: mermaids are real.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to talk about mermaids, Okay, Well we

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Speaker 2: would have anyway, but we're not going to we're not

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Speaker 2: going to actively lie to people.

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Speaker 1: And we're definitely not talking about mermaids today.

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Speaker 2: No, no, not unless there's a big plot twist that

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Speaker 2: comes in while we're recording. So the only people who

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Speaker 2: matter to us in terms of this show are going

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Speaker 2: to be the people listening. So the only folks who

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Speaker 2: ever told us they'd like to hear this topic on

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Speaker 2: air were your fellow listener and our own. So let's

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Speaker 2: get started. The human species here, we are picturess in

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Speaker 2: your head. The human species has a long, long history

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Speaker 2: of distrusting vaccines, and in recent years, especially in the West,

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Speaker 2: this has become a hot button issue all over again.

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Speaker 2: Mission Control wrote to us off air, wanted us to

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Speaker 2: want to make sure we mentioned Jessica Biel is a

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Speaker 2: new I guess they're called anti vaxers now, yeah, don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't know about that kind of labeling as a

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Speaker 2: thought terminating cliche, but yes, a lot of celebrities are

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Speaker 2: picking this up, similar to the way that many celebrities

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Speaker 2: in years past fell for the propaganda about flat earth

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Speaker 2: propagating on Twitter. It's so look, you know, it's it's

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Speaker 2: a hot button issue now. Regardless of where you fall

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Speaker 2: in the in the conversation, a few people have probably

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Speaker 2: already pulled up their email or paused the recording to

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Speaker 2: dial our phone number start writing to us. So this

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Speaker 2: leads us to the question, what the hell has been

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Speaker 2: going on here and for how long. To answer that question,

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Speaker 2: we have to define what a vaccine is. So here

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Speaker 2: are the facts.

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Speaker 1: A vaccine is a substance that's used to stimulate antibodies

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Speaker 1: or the production thereof, and it's meant to be a

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Speaker 1: guard to increase immunity or provide immunity to prevent diseases

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Speaker 1: that are able to be prevented by these vaccinations. And

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Speaker 1: they are prepared from basically a little piece of that disease.

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Speaker 1: That's the idea.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, We're creating an antidote from the original poison.

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Speaker 2: Essentially to quote our asscience from dilated peoples, or to paraphrasem.

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Speaker 2: So this is treated. Vaccines are treated just as you said, nol.

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Speaker 2: They act as an antigen without inducing the actual disease.

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Speaker 2: And antigen is a toxic or other foreign substance which

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Speaker 2: creates an immune response in the body and helps your

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Speaker 2: body teach itself to fight a disease. So I was

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Speaker 2: thinking about awkward comparisons or analogies to this. Imagine if

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Speaker 2: you could be shot with a rubber bullet that would

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Speaker 2: function like a bullet but not kill you, and then

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Speaker 2: later it just made you immune to bullets. WHOA, that's

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Speaker 2: kind of that's very imperfect, but it's kind of similar thinking,

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Speaker 2: except in this case vaccines actually work, and it's a

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Speaker 2: powerful it's a powerful thing. The question is what are

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Speaker 2: they meant to do and how do they work? The

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Speaker 2: concept of vaccination is old.

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Speaker 1: Old, old, old old.

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Speaker 2: Several years ago we had a animated show for children

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Speaker 2: called Stuff of Genius, where when we looked at great

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Speaker 2: inventors and inventions, and we learned that in school, many children,

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Speaker 2: especially in the West, are taught that the first vaccinations

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Speaker 2: occurred due to the efforts of a man named Edward Jenner.

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Speaker 2: Edward Jenner, according to the story, learned to successfully inoculate

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Speaker 2: people against smallpox by infecting them with another related disease, cowpox.

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Speaker 2: In seventeen ninety six, he inoculated a thirteen year old

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Speaker 2: boy with vaccina virus cowpox and then demonstrated that this

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Speaker 2: immunized the kid to smallpox. In seventeen ninety eight, the

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Speaker 2: first smallpox vaccine hit the mainstream. Right was developed, and

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Speaker 2: it is okay, I don't want to dismiss this guy.

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Speaker 2: It is true that Edward Jenner changed the world. It

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Speaker 2: is true that he is responsible in a very large

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Speaker 2: and profound way for widespread smallpox vaccination. However, a lot

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Speaker 2: of people are taught and have been taught that he

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Speaker 2: was the first person to figure this out. That is

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Speaker 2: categorically untrue. Vaccines and vaccination techniques are much much, much older.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you go back to Buddhist monks who would actually

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Speaker 3: take some snake venom into their body, like they would

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Speaker 3: drink it just enough to get or to confer immunity

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Speaker 3: to it, or at least to get some immunity to

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Speaker 3: this to a snake bite while they're walking around. And

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Speaker 3: then you can also look back even well even back

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Speaker 3: to the seventeenth century in China, when there was a

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Speaker 3: thing called variolation where they would actually smear like cowpox

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Speaker 3: on their body, like they would just put it on

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Speaker 3: their body and then they would be immune to smallpox

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Speaker 3: in the same way that Edward Jenner used, or a

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Speaker 3: similar way that Edward Jenner used.

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Speaker 1: It makes me think of like, who's the first one

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Speaker 1: to decide it. I'm going to eat this mushroom, and

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Speaker 1: you know, see what happens. Yeah, it's it's it's genius,

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Speaker 1: but it's also so risky, you know, because I mean yet, like,

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Speaker 1: if you're doing this thing with a snake venom, surely

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Speaker 1: someone took too much and died and someone had to

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Speaker 1: try it again take just the right amount to get

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Speaker 1: the immunity. It's it's like a weird kind of like

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Speaker 1: blunt instrument version of science, you know, but with human

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Speaker 1: lives kind of as the collateral damage.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sort of it's brute force hacking with high attrition.

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Speaker 2: You talked about this too with an episode we did

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Speaker 2: earlier on heroin and opium. You know, heroin and opium

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Speaker 2: have done horrific things to the world wide community, but

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Speaker 2: you have to at some level just respect the ingenuity.

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Speaker 2: It's impressive how somebody figured out they saw a poppy

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Speaker 2: plant and then ultimately they said, you know what, I

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Speaker 2: bet there's a way to invent syringes to distill this

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Speaker 2: into something else.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna milk that poppy, right, something like that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, so there's this huge, this huge swath of human

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Speaker 2: experience that has lost the time. When we talk about this,

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Speaker 2: accounts from the fifteen hundreds describe what is clearly smallpox

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Speaker 2: inoculation in both China and in India. There's a guy

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Speaker 2: named Joseph Needham who wrote a book called Science and

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Speaker 2: Civilization in China, and he talks about this in volume six.

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Speaker 2: In the Life and Death of Smallpox, it's noted that

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Speaker 2: in the late sixteen hundreds, an emperor named Kang Shi,

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Speaker 2: who had survived smallpox as a child, had his children inoculated.

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Speaker 2: He was an early proponent of this and the Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the method that he used was pretty gross. They would

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Speaker 2: take they would take actual smallpox scabs, they would grind

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Speaker 2: them up like mortar and pestle style, and then they

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Speaker 2: would blow that into people's nostrils.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and hence the inoculation you can get by

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Speaker 3: spraying in your nose.

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Speaker 1: Now insulflation.

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Speaker 2: Right. It's difficult to pinpoint when this actually began, and

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Speaker 2: some sources will date this back as early as two

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Speaker 2: hundred BCE, but that's still I mean, that's debatable. Nobody

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Speaker 2: nobody was really saying, hey, let's record this for posterity.

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Speaker 2: It's going to change the world, at least not to

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Speaker 2: the degree that you know historians would hope nowadays. But whatever,

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Speaker 2: and whenever the origin of this technology. Over the eighteenth

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Speaker 2: and nineteenth centuries, systematic implementation of mass smallpox immunization eventually

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Speaker 2: led to the eradication of smallpox in nineteen seventy nine.

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Speaker 1: In the nation. That was a doozy of a senate's ben,

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: It was across the world.

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Speaker 1: No, no, I know. But you had a lot of

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Speaker 1: like immunization, vaccination.

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Speaker 2: Implement Yeah, it was good. Sometimes they get carried away.

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Speaker 1: No, no, it was. It was was brilliant. I had

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Speaker 1: to hind it within the nation. But as you say, Ben, no,

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Speaker 1: this is not just national, this is global. It's so

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Speaker 1: crazy to actually kill a disease. Bill Gates is actively working. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's what he says on this sort of stuff. And

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Speaker 1: then we have several other big highlights for the pro

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Speaker 1: vaccination community. Right then you have Louis Pasteur, who was

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Speaker 1: working live, as we say, with attenuated live attenuated cholera

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Speaker 1: vaccine and inactivated anthrax vaccines, working with human subjects in

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Speaker 1: eighteen ninety seven and nineteen oh four, respectively, for each

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Speaker 1: of those vaccines. Then there was plague vaccine. Big deal

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Speaker 1: was also invented in the nineteenth century. Between eighteen ninety

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Speaker 1: and nineteen fifty, we started to see bacterial vaccine develop

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Speaker 1: and that included the basilis kalamat Goren BCG vaccination. I'm

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Speaker 1: perhouncing that right, which is very much still in use today.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing about a lot of this stuff, right,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't get much better once you figure it out,

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Speaker 1: like that's the puzzle piece, you know.

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Speaker 2: Well there, I mean, there are there are some things

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Speaker 2: we got wrong or.

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Speaker 1: Along one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, these are incredible breakthroughs. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: don't know. I'm maybe there's a hot take, and this

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Speaker 2: is just my personal opinion. I try to keep my

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Speaker 2: personal opinion out of the show for big deal issues.

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Speaker 2: But I would say I'm anti plague and I'm glad

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Speaker 2: that I don't have it.

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Speaker 3: That's a good idea.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's a very respectable position. Maybe that's

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Speaker 1: a hot take.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen twenty three, guy named Alexander Glenny perfects a method

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Speaker 2: of inactivating tetanus toxin with formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is bad for you.

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Speaker 2: So that's one of our first dings against the vaccine.

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Speaker 1: There.

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Speaker 2: The same method that he used was used to develop

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Speaker 2: a vaccine against diphtheria in nineteen twenty six, the same

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Speaker 2: year that this building where we record the podcast was constructed.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, by a man named mister Sears.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: True.

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Speaker 2: And then there was the Pretussis vaccine development. It took

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Speaker 2: a lot longer, and the first the first good vaccine

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Speaker 2: version of that was legal to use in the US

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Speaker 2: in nineteen forty eight, but the development was a lot tougher.

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Speaker 1: In between nineteen fifty nineteen and eighty five, we had

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Speaker 1: lots of developments, advancements and viral tissue culture methods that

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Speaker 1: led to the advent of the polio vaccine, the salk Or,

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Speaker 1: an activated polio vaccine, and the saban which which is

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Speaker 1: a live attenuated oral polio vaccine. Polio was a ravaging disease.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was such a problem for children. It

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Speaker 1: was very communicable. Clothes had to be burned. It was

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Speaker 1: just absolute, almost its own kind of mini plague.

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Speaker 2: US presidents had it.

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Speaker 1: That's right. No one was safe because there was no

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Speaker 1: way around it. And now it's sort of like a

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Speaker 1: distant memory.

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Speaker 2: In most of the world, hopefully. Yes, let's look at

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Speaker 2: the other side of this. While we talked briefly about

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Speaker 2: the history of vaccines and You can find some wonderful

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Speaker 2: work on this and other podcasts which we're glad to

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Speaker 2: recommend if you're write. There is also a history of

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Speaker 2: vaccine resistance, or what is sometimes called vaccine hesitancy, or

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Speaker 2: what is sometimes called anti vaccination movements. It's tough to

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Speaker 2: conjecture how local populations felt about ancient vaccination attempts. What

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Speaker 2: you want my scabs, grind them up, blow them in.

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Speaker 2: Who's knows why? These are good questions, But more modern

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Speaker 2: vaccination technology has met some form of organized resistance since

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Speaker 2: literally the early eighteen hundreds, right when the first widespread

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Speaker 2: vaccination about smallpox came out. For some parents, the smallpox

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Speaker 2: vaccination process itself induced just horror and terror and protests.

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Speaker 2: And it's no wonder because Matt, you had mentioned this before.

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Speaker 2: Could you describe the method a little?

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Speaker 3: Uh? Sure? So the first thing you do is you

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Speaker 3: take a child's arm and then you cut into it

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Speaker 3: so that there's open flesh there. Then you take the

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Speaker 3: the limph, kind of the seepage out of somebody who

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Speaker 3: had a blister of small yah. Someone else in person too,

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Speaker 3: who has smallpox. You take that stuff, that liquid, and

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Speaker 3: then you put it into that person's arm.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this person their only qualification needs to be

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Speaker 2: that they are alive, and they were vacated about a

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Speaker 2: week earlier, so it gave blisters time to form. This

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Speaker 2: means that the person could be a stranger, They could

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Speaker 2: be someone who is a different religion, ethnicity, or community,

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Speaker 2: all three of which were huge deals back then and

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Speaker 2: for some people still are today. And then now that

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Speaker 2: person's blood or their bodily fluids are literally going to

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Speaker 2: be in your child. Phrase it that way. That's how people.

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Speaker 2: That's how people felt about it, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: folks who objected to this, including local clergy, believed that

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Speaker 2: the vaccine was Unchristian because it came originally from an animal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. And well, but thinking about all of that stuff,

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Speaker 3: it really gives you a picture of the concept of

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Speaker 3: herd immunity, which is the whole point of a vaccine. Right.

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Speaker 3: You were literally sharing from one person to the next

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Speaker 3: to make sure that we're all going to be immune

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Speaker 3: to a disease.

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Speaker 2: I don't even like to drink after people, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean? On a fundamental level. I get this.

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Speaker 2: One time I was out with a family member and

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Speaker 2: they were thirsty and they drank some water and I

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Speaker 2: was like, burn it down, that's yours. Now I'm not.

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Speaker 2: I don't care how related we may or may not be.

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Speaker 2: For other people who are against this movement. Originally, right

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Speaker 2: when it was still very new, they didn't trust the

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Speaker 2: smallpox vaccine because they were in a way they were

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Speaker 2: they were skeptical of the science as it was at

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Speaker 2: the time, because they said, you know, doctors, what do

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Speaker 2: doctors know? It's not so long ago in this part

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Speaker 2: of the world, when being able to cut hair meant

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Speaker 2: that you were also qualified to perform amputations.

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Speaker 1: Because you had, you know, cutty tools already just laying around,

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Speaker 1: and you understood how the body works.

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Speaker 2: And as we'll get more bang for your buck with

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Speaker 2: your cutting tools exactly. And so they objected to Edward

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Speaker 2: Jenner's ideas about how smallpox spread. They said, no, you're

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Speaker 2: being foolish. This is fake news, unproven science. We all know,

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Speaker 2: based on our personal feelings and our personal opinions, that

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Speaker 2: this spreads because of quote decay in the atmosphere. It

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Speaker 2: does not. Lastly, many people objected to the vaccination process

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Speaker 2: because they thought it violated their personal liberty, their individual rights,

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Speaker 2: and this just became worse as the government of the

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Speaker 2: time developed mandatory vaccine policies. Because if you want to

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Speaker 2: make anyone hate anything, just make it mandatory. Right, there's

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Speaker 2: going to be at least one person who was like,

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Speaker 2: this is bs the revolution begins. Now, it does not

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Speaker 2: matter what it is.

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Speaker 1: That's when you get the Vaccination Act of eighteen fifty three,

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Speaker 1: which ordered mandatory vaccinations for infants up to three months old,

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Speaker 1: and then you had the Act of eighteen sixty seven

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Speaker 1: that extended the age requirement to fourteen year olds, and

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Speaker 1: it added some penalties for refusal to do so.

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Speaker 2: Right, and these laws were met with immediate and sciferous

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Speaker 2: resistance from citizens who demanded not only the right to

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Speaker 2: control their own bodies, but those of their children. And

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Speaker 2: they said, you know, big government has no place telling

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Speaker 2: me what to do with my family. The Anti Vaccination

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Speaker 2: League and the Anti Compulsory Vaccination League formed in response

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Speaker 2: to these mandatory laws, and a lot of journals popped

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Speaker 2: up that were touting the advantages of avoiding vaccines and

436
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 2: the disadvantages of having them, and these marches were huge.

437
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: There was one in March of eighteen eighty five in

438
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 2: Leicester which was the most notorious of its time, eighty

439
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 2: thousand to one hundred thousand protesters. They were They had

440
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 2: an effigy of Edward Jenner, they had a bunch of

441
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 2: fake baby coffins as these carrot top style props. And again,

442
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 2: this is like one hundred thousand people in eighteen eighty

443
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 2: five when there were way fewer people in general. So

444
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 2: that's that's fascinating. This was huge issue. But this so

445
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 2: far has all been Europe. We're talking Europe. Now, let's

446
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 2: talk about the Anti Vaccination Society of America, which was

447
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: founded in eighteen seventy nine and was founded because there

448
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: was a guy who was a sort of a polemical,

449
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: controversial medical figure, a guy named William Tebb. He was

450
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 2: from Britain, and he visited the States, and then after

451
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 2: he visited people really took up the torch. And then

452
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,640
Speaker 2: this was far from the only anti vaccination league.

453
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 3: It is, and we're also going to see, weirdly enough,

454
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 3: that echoed in the modern era where a British scientist

455
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 3: who's working in this area goes to the United States

456
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 3: and starts a.

457
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: Movement foreshadowing Yes, indeed.

458
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, you got two other leagues, the New England Anti

459
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 3: Compulsory Vaccination League. These names are pretty great. You've also

460
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 3: got the Anti Vaccination League of New York City, so

461
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,160
Speaker 3: that's eighteen eighty two and then eighteen.

462
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: Which also the New York one has some modern successors

463
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: today it does.

464
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 3: So the American anti vaccinationists, they were, you know, they

465
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: were engaging in court battles. They were trying to repeal

466
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 3: a lot of these laws. There were the compulsory ones

467
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 3: that they named their institutions after, and in several states

468
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 3: they're working, including California, Illinois, and Wisconsin. And you would

469
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 3: see it just continue to grow there, the anti vaccination movement.

470
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 2: Yes, and then in the nineteen seventies and eighties there

471
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 2: was a period of increasing litigation regarding vaccines, and this

472
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 2: also led to decreased profitability, or it occurred concurrently in

473
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 2: step with decreased profitability for vaccine manufacturers, and this led

474
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: to a decline in the number of companies producing vaccines. Yes,

475
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 2: Big Farma is already very deeply in ployee here or

476
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it, right, profit motivated medicine

477
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: one of the some we'll call it necessary evil, some

478
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 2: will call it one of the greatest missteps.

479
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 1: Of our species.

480
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 2: That's it's definitely going to be on us at some

481
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 2: point the bill comes due. So this leads to what

482
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: could have been a very dangerous time for people who

483
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 2: are pro vaccination or you know, as they would phrase it,

484
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 2: anti disease. However, the decline gets mitigated because something happens

485
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 2: in the US in nineteen eighty six. It's called the

486
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 2: National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. And that's this was made

487
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 2: because it is true that in some cases this is

488
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 2: according to Health Resources and Service administration of the US,

489
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: in some cases, vaccines can cause very serious problems. The

490
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 2: one most often cited on their side is the severe

491
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: allergic reaction that can affect some people, depending on the

492
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 2: vaccine and their personal reaction to it. In these cases,

493
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: this compensation program may provide financial compensation to people who

494
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: file a petition are found to be injured by a

495
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 2: vaccine that is covered by this stuff. And this doesn't

496
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: cover all vaccines, but it did stop that decline. People

497
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 2: felt a little less unsafe. The legacy of this era

498
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 2: lives on in the present day in supply crises and

499
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 2: continued media efforts by a incredibly dedicated anti vaccination lobby.

500
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 2: Anti vaccination groups continue today. Twenty eighteen survey by Zogbie

501
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 2: Analytics found that nearly twenty percent of Americans, about one

502
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: in five people, believe vaccines are inherently unsafe. So what gives?

503
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: Why are some people convinced there's something more to vaccines

504
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: than saving lives and preventing disease? Will tackle the answer

505
00:28:51,280 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: after a word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy.

506
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: So there's a root to this issue, and it's threefold.

507
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, First, you're going to get into some kind

508
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 3: of religious objection to doing this, whether it's something that's

509
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,479
Speaker 3: actually written in a scripture and a text somewhere that

510
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 3: just talks about putting other people's blood into your body

511
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 3: or just you know, some small thing like that. And

512
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 3: also just you know, into specific religious reasons for not wanting.

513
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: To do this, or even even the idea that this

514
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: is an attempt to shirk a duty or a trial

515
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 2: sent by a religious authority. It is not our place

516
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: to go against the judgment of God.

517
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, God has a plan and if I am to

518
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 3: be sick, I will be sick and He will make

519
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 3: me better as well. Then you've got concerns about personal liberty,

520
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 3: which is, you know, I think that's right on the

521
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 3: face of it, as we talked about with anything being mandatory,

522
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 3: like if I do not have a choice to do this,

523
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 3: then I'm not going to agree with it, or at

524
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 3: least I'm going to object to it. And then the

525
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: third ist skepticism or just all out rejection of the

526
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 3: benefits that we all humans get from vaccination. And it's

527
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: also accompanied by the belief of vaccines, you know, have

528
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 3: harmed people over the course of the history of using them,

529
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 3: and specifically though the belief that vaccines in general hurt

530
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 3: people more than they help them.

531
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: And more so, I mean, that's the one that really

532
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: leans more into the conspiracy realm, where there's this perceived

533
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,719
Speaker 1: agenda that vaccines are used as some sort of controlling

534
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: factor or some sort of this whole mandatory idea is

535
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: the government, you know, it's it's just the thing they

536
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: don't want us to know, you know, what the vaccines

537
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: are actually doing.

538
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 3: It's the one that's stuck around for the longest.

539
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 2: At least, Yeah, it has the most staying power by far. Now,

540
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 2: those first those first two objections still exist, and you

541
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: can see modern cases of religious objections and you can

542
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: see modern cases of you know, forget the science. This

543
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: is a matter of personal philosophy, and your control ends

544
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 2: where my personal space begins. An argument of liberty. And

545
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: these objections, the ones from the stain power, the skepticism

546
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: about the science, they go through a gamut of responses.

547
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: Some will purport to be based on science, and we'll

548
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 2: look at that more in a second. To some that

549
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: would be you know, be called more conspiratorial in the

550
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 2: mainstream media. In the nineteen seventies, the diphtheria tetanus and

551
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: produces or DTP vaccine was blamed for neurological conditions in

552
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: some British children, even though numerous other studies and subsequent

553
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: studies indicated there was no close association with their quote

554
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: brain disease.

555
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: That's what they call them.

556
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 2: They said it just biologically wasn't possible for the method

557
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: or the mechanism that the vaccine used to cause malfunctions

558
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 2: in neurological systems.

559
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 3: And even though historically that was what was found when

560
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 3: that nineteen seventies DTP vaccine saga that was occurring, you

561
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: will still have groups who believe that, you know, this

562
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 3: concept that there was no association coming from studies performed

563
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 3: by doctors, and this is one of the you know,

564
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 3: as we get into the more conspiratorial things, people will

565
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 3: outright reject that conclusion and continue to believe that, no,

566
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 3: that is an example of vaccines being harmful.

567
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: Or question the source.

568
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 2: So now you know, history doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme,

569
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: as it's so often said. Let's look at the concept

570
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 2: of mercury health effects allegations of neurological damage. In nineteen

571
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: ninety eight, a British gastro enterologist named Andrew Wakefield published

572
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: a report that linked the combination measles, mumps and rubella

573
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 2: or MMR vaccine to autism and bowel disease in infants.

574
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: This vaccine had been more or less routinely distributed since

575
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 2: the early nineteen seventies. First things first, if this is true,

576
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: if the science bears out, then this is a tremendous

577
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: problem because tons of people have had this vaccine. This

578
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: needs to be solved yesterday, you know, before this thing publishes.

579
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: But the problem here is that subsequent researchers, nearly all

580
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 2: of them, were unable to reproduce Wakefield's results. And that's

581
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 2: very important in studies. In two thousand and four, an

582
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 2: investigation by The Sunday Times revealed that he had in

583
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: fact fabricated his research. So the Lancet where this was

584
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 2: published with Drew's report and Wakefield was barred from practicing

585
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 2: medicine in the United Kingdom. That's when he moved to

586
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: the US and he doubled down on his claims. He

587
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 2: said that, you know, he alleged there was a conspiracy

588
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 2: by the Academy or the powers the be to shut

589
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: him down.

590
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 3: And this is where the echo of William Tebb.

591
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: Comes in exactly.

592
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 2: And he directed a film called Vaxed from Cover Up

593
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: to Catastrophe in twenty sixteen, which several of us have

594
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 2: probably seen.

595
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: I watched it as well.

596
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: This was not a fringe figure at this time, not

597
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 2: near as much as some of us might think just

598
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: hearing that information. In fact, he attended the inauguration ball

599
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 2: of the current president in twenty sixteen, So it's not

600
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 2: like he is. It's not like he's being entirely dismissed

601
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 2: in the US, right, correct. And then going back to

602
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: the claims of the claims that there is a poisonous

603
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 2: ingredient in vaccines, right that the rubber bullet is still

604
00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: a bullet. Let's talk about something called fail mercal, theemerosol,

605
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 2: as it's spelled differently in the UK and US. It's

606
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 2: an anti fungal preservative and it's been used in small

607
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 2: amounts in different multidose vaccines, multi dose vaccines. It doesn't

608
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: mean that you get dosed for multiple diseases. It means

609
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: that the vaccine comes in a container or a vial

610
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: and you use it for multiple patients. Right, like a

611
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: two liter of soda here, you would expect your friends

612
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: have cups. We're not just each guzzling one unless it's

613
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: a game night, right. So this stuff, this anti fungal substance,

614
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 2: was included in these vials and these multi dose vaccines

615
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: to prevent them from becoming contaminated as they were used

616
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 2: across multiple patients. So it works as a preservative. It's

617
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: controversial because this substance contains mercury, which studies do conclusively

618
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 2: show is super bad for you. Don't play like, have

619
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 2: you ever played with aometer? Do you guys ever break

620
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 2: mercury into it? Yeah? Really it's so Coolowah, it's not

621
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: a good idea.

622
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 3: It don't do it.

623
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 2: It amids poisonous fumes. Don't let it touch your skin,

624
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 2: but man.

625
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 3: And really don't drink it. Ever. Let's say you're working

626
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 3: with a Flint River, don't don't drink.

627
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: It or you know, even if you watch T one

628
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 2: thousand in the Terminator films, don't try to build one

629
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 2: out of mercury, which is what I did.

630
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: That was liquid medal, Right, liquid medal.

631
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: Without getting off too far out of track here, did

632
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 3: you see with the the Flint River water crisis. Yeah,

633
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 3: there's an update with all that.

634
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, the claims got rejected.

635
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're they're shutting down essentially the prosecution or they're

636
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 3: not going to prosecute anyone, but they're gonna reach, like

637
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 3: I reinvestigate basically.

638
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,399
Speaker 2: The water still burns. Yeah, that's the problem. Yeah, those

639
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 2: people are probably not going to see a day in jail.

640
00:36:55,160 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 2: The folks who were who were largely responsible, and to

641
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: be fair, there's a little we did an episode on this.

642
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 3: We did.

643
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 2: It's an important update. Yeah, because once something leaves the news,

644
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 2: it's very easy for the legal shan against to begin

645
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: when the world doesn't have its eye on things, right, So, yes,

646
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 2: mercury is terrible. Apologies to Flint, Michigan. We've had and

647
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 2: thank you so much to some of our fellow listeners

648
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: who wrote in from Flint and the surrounding area to

649
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 2: let us know that this story continues even if CNN

650
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 2: is not paying attention to it.

651
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 3: In that case, it was lead. By the way, I

652
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 3: don't know why my tangent went from mercury to lead contamination.

653
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but there you go contamination. And also, yeah, when

654
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 2: I say the water still burns, it's a bit hyperbole.

655
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 2: The places where water tends to burn are places that

656
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 2: have been contaminated by cracking. Yeah, which is a real thing. Still,

657
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 2: back to vaccines. In nineteen ninety nine, the CDC Center

658
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 2: for Disease Control, It's health the subject of no small

659
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 2: amount of conspiracy theories, and the American Academy of Pediatrics

660
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: or the AAP asked vaccine makers to remove this theomercal,

661
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: from vaccines as quickly as possible. They said, just to

662
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 2: be safe, Just to be safe. Mercury is bad for you.

663
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 2: We all know that. Let's let's get it out of here.

664
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: He's out of here three strikes or before three strikes occur.

665
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 2: Let's not hit anyone with this. So now this substance

666
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 2: is absent from the vast majority of vaccines in Europe

667
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 2: and the US, except for some preparations of the flu vaccine,

668
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 2: So make your choice. No, no, no, kitty. There are trace

669
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 2: amounts that are in some vaccines due to production processes.

670
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 2: What that means is that the people actually manufacture the vaccines,

671
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 2: who are not necessarily the people who invented or discovered them,

672
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,720
Speaker 2: say hey, we've got the system in place that already works.

673
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: It's tremendously expensive and may be dangerous for us to

674
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 2: change it, so we have to keep this in and

675
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 2: for anyone wondering this mercury. Mercury bearing substance occurs at

676
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: around a maximum of one microgram in some vaccines. That's

677
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: about fifteen percent of the average daily mercury intake in

678
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: the US, which is a thing, in case you didn't know,

679
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 2: there's daily mercury intake for all seafood fans out there.

680
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: There's allowable limits of all kinds of toxins, right, arsenic, yeah, rap,

681
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: v sason, cereal.

682
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 2: I mean, that's how it works. That's fifteen percent of

683
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 2: the daily intake for US adults, two point five percent

684
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 2: of the daily level considered tolerable by the World Health

685
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 2: Organization who Yes, Yes, the World Health Organization. The presence

686
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: of the this mercury bearing substance in vaccines is one

687
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 2: of the primary reasons that some people and organizations link

688
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 2: vaccines and vaccinations to incidences of autism. What exactly is

689
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: autism other than something deserving an episode entirely of its own.

690
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: We'll answer this after a word from our sponsors.

691
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: We've returned.

692
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 2: Autism as it's commonly called, or autism spectrum disorder ASD,

693
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 2: as it's named officially, refers to a broad range of conditions.

694
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,760
Speaker 2: They're characterized by challenges with social skills, repetitive behaviors, speech,

695
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 2: and nonverbal communication. According again to the CDC Centers for

696
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:54,959
Speaker 2: Disease Control, autism effects an estimated one in fifty nine

697
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: children in the United States today. We know there's not

698
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 2: saying something first off, Autism isn't cancer, But saying something

699
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 2: is autism is a lot like saying something is cancer.

700
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 2: It's sort of an umbrella terms for many different types

701
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 2: of things.

702
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 3: That's why that spectrum ispects so important.

703
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 2: And they're most often influenced by a combination of genetic

704
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: and environmental factors. Science even now in twenty nineteen, is

705
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 2: still attempting to understand how those factors combine to create

706
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 2: conditions or events on this spectrum, and how best to

707
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: help people who live with a condition from the ASD,

708
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 2: whether that's you know, as Berger's or whether it is

709
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 2: some sort of I believe the correct terminology is profound autism.

710
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 2: Is that correct, Matt?

711
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And there's all there's all kinds of things functioning,

712
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 3: non functioning, verbal, nonverbal, all that that we kind of

713
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 3: discussed already.

714
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

715
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 2: So, multiple studies from various groups like the National Academy

716
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: of Sciences in the UK and so on, have not

717
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 2: verified a link between vaccination and this condition. And Wakefield's research,

718
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 2: although it's been soundly dismissed by mainstream medicine, is still

719
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 2: cited by a lot of anti vaccination groups, and sometimes

720
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: depending on the group, and depending on the tone of

721
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 2: the group or the agenda of the group, you will

722
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 2: also run into some conspiratorial stuff. Some groups will just

723
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 2: cite it without citing other studies that outnumber it and

724
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 2: contradict it, or some other groups maybe a little further

725
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 2: out there, will say that will intimate or kind of

726
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 2: kind of allude to some great cover up of Wakefield's research.

727
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 2: This leads us to another medical concern, the concept of

728
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 2: vaccine overload, which is something that might not be familiar

729
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 2: to people, but it's an interesting idea.

730
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: So vaccine overload, which is a non medical term, refers

731
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: to this idea that giving lots of vaccines in one

732
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: go could overwhelm or weaken a child's very you know,

733
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: developing immune system and lead to adverse effects. So, for example,

734
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: when when my kid got vaccinated, we broke it up

735
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: into a couple of different little sessions, and that's pretty common.

736
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: So vaccine overload is also a term that's used as

737
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: it's often cited as a cause for autism. Again, there's

738
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: not much science to back this up. In fact, that

739
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: any of the science that exists doesn't really bear this out.

740
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: Despite the increase in the number of vaccines over recent decades,

741
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: improvements in the designs of these vaccines in the way

742
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: they're administered have created serious reduction to the immunologic load

743
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: from those vaccines and the total number of these components.

744
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: The immunological components in the fourteen vaccines administered to children

745
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: in the United States in two thousand and nine is

746
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: less than ten percent of what it was in the

747
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: seven vaccines given in nineteen eighty.

748
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 2: So we see we see this tremendous reduction in the

749
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 2: amount of work immune systems are asked to do. Right.

750
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 2: That's that's essentially what we mean when we say immunologic load.

751
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 2: I think immuneologic's a really cool word too. By the way,

752
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 2: it sounds like some West Coast hip hop guy's name.

753
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 1: I agree.

754
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 2: If it's not, then here you go. I think the

755
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 2: only person who will have a problem with you taking

756
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 2: that name will be Logic, who seems like he doesn't

757
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 2: have a problem with other people having names related to that.

758
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 2: But you can't really get mad at someone who has

759
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 2: who shares a component of your name and hip hop?

760
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: How many bigs are there? How many littles are there?

761
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 3: Little?

762
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 2: How many youngs?

763
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: So many youngs and lil's and bigs.

764
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 3: Somebody named the Little Skies is putting stuff everywhere still

765
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 3: in Atlanta, Little Skies, Little Skys medorists or no, just

766
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 3: somebody's paying a lot of money, got put up posters.

767
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you gotta you know, you've got to be

768
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 2: the change. I guess so, Little Skys. If you're listening.

769
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 2: Send us some music.

770
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, please be the little that you want to see

771
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: in the world. That's what I say.

772
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 3: So.

773
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 2: A study published in twenty thirteen found no correlation between

774
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: autism and the antigen number in the vaccines these children

775
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 2: were administered up to age two. Again, the antigen is

776
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 2: sort of the broken part of the of the infection

777
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 2: that you're attempting to teach a body to fight. Right.

778
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,760
Speaker 2: Of the one thousand and eight children in this study

779
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 2: back in twenty thirteen, one quarter of those diagnosed with

780
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 2: some ASD condition were born between nineteen ninety four and

781
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, and that's when the routine vaccine schedule

782
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 2: for children can contain more than three thousand antigens. That's

783
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 2: a single shot of a DTP vaccine. The vaccine schedule

784
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve has more vaccines, but the number of

785
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 2: antigens the children are exposed to by the age of

786
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 2: two is way way down. It's down to three point fifteen.

787
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 2: So if this correlation is correct, then it would naturally

788
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 2: follow This is just take like, let's just assume for

789
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 2: the sake of argument that the opposition to vaccines because

790
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 2: of that link to autism or perceived link. Let's assume

791
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 2: that bore out somehow. If that was true, then it

792
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 2: would follow that reducing this antigen load right would therefore

793
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 2: result in a decline in people presenting with ASD conditions.

794
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 2: That does not seem to be the case, or at

795
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 2: least there's no literature on the anti vaccination side citing that.

796
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 2: There's another argument too that we could have, which is

797
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 2: that that's a schedule from twenty twelve. It's twenty nineteen now,

798
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 2: so there's not enough time. Arguably, right, you would want

799
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 2: to wait till maybe twenty twenty two or twenty twenty

800
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 2: five or something like that. To be absolutely fair, there

801
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 2: are no publicly available studies based on withholding vaccines from children.

802
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 2: That is because there are tons of laws against unethical experimentation. Again,

803
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 2: my opinion pops up a little bit here. I'm a

804
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: huge fan of self experimentation, but even I understand that

805
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 2: you shouldn't. You shouldn't conduct experiments on people who are

806
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 2: not capable of informed consent. There you go, and children

807
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 2: are not. So at this point, it's also fair to

808
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 2: point out that no study directly comparing rates of ASD

809
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 2: or spectrum in vaccinated and unvaccinated children has been done

810
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 2: to our knowledge. If you find one, please send it out.

811
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: And then there are some other conditions associated with vaccination.

812
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, aluminum has been a cause of concern. This

813
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 2: will cause aluminum and things related to aluminum are even

814
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 2: a cause concern for some people. With deodorant. Have you

815
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 2: heard about this?

816
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 3: Sure? Yeah, when you're using the strong antipersperans when it's

817
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 3: like leeching into your body.

818
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: Supposedly, but the other kind it doesn't work, man, the

819
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: hippie crystal deodorant, it doesn't do the job. Yeah, Or

820
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: I need heavy metals in my deodorant.

821
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm a fan of bathing. I don't know. I'm

822
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 2: just full of hot takes today, but I think people

823
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:41,919
Speaker 2: should shower.

824
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, But you know it's hot in Georgia, dude,

825
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: and we it's hot in this hot box that we're

826
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: sitting in right now. I need my I need my

827
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: deodorant to be effective and we all's benefit.

828
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 2: And the idea is that aluminum might also leach into

829
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 2: people's bodies and unsafe levels affect some aspect of their development. Typically,

830
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: the primary concerns for people opposed to vaccination are going

831
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: to be focused on neurological aspects.

832
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: What is the aluminum meant to be.

833
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 2: In aluminum or aluminium for all the fans of Bush

834
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 2: Yes and the band and everyone living in the UK

835
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 2: or people who just prefer that sort of spelling pronunciation.

836
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: Aluminum adjuvants are used in vaccines for hep A B,

837
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 2: the diphtheria, tetanus vaccines, and a couple of other things.

838
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: They're not used in what they call the live viral

839
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 2: vaccines like measles, mumps, rubella, and rotavirus and so on.

840
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 2: And adjuvant is a part of a vaccine component that

841
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 2: boosts the immune response for the vaccine. Essentially, they allow

842
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 2: you to get more bang for your buck. Lesser quantities

843
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 2: of the vaccine and fewer doses can still have the

844
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 2: same effect of older vaccines.

845
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: Got it, Got it, And like you said, Ben, there

846
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: have been other concerns raised about the HEPB vaccine in

847
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:15,439
Speaker 1: relation to a potential link between that and multiple sclerosis.

848
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, hepatitis B vaccination and the risk of childhood onset

849
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 2: multiple sclerosis. Right, that's the Pediatric Adolescence Medical Journal. And

850
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 2: there were other things to examining this. The New England

851
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 2: Journal of Medicine did a study on this Hepatitis B

852
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 2: vaccination the risk of multiple sclerosis, and you can find

853
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 2: plenty of literature on this at the CDC, which has

854
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 2: a pretty good website. The problem is, for some people

855
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 2: the CDC is considered a non starter. You know what

856
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 2: I mean, they'll share it's compromised, right, Are you going

857
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 2: to believe big, big disease? You know, aren't they linked

858
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 2: to big pharma.

859
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: So it's true.

860
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,439
Speaker 2: We've mentioned just a few We've mentioned multiple sclerosis, We've

861
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 2: mentioned vaccine overload. We've got a couple of other things

862
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 2: we should mention. First, why anti vaccination remains a hot

863
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 2: topic today? Again, not sold in that store. It's kind

864
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,399
Speaker 2: of lazy, it was. I don't know why I cop

865
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 2: using a hot topic. But first, there's a common concern

866
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 2: sited that vaccinations cause seizures. It's very important to very

867
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 2: important to mention this is technically true. All immune responses

868
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 2: which vaccines are purposely created to trigger, have a chance

869
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 2: of causing what are known as febrile seizures also called

870
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 2: fever pits, or seizures associated with high body temperatures. Overall,

871
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 2: you're going to find the risk of these seizures during

872
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:50,359
Speaker 2: vaccination is pretty low, but still very distressing. If you're

873
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 2: a parent and your child is having seizures, it doesn't

874
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 2: matter to you that only three percent of children get them.

875
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 2: It matters to you that one kid in particular has that,

876
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 2: right now, you know what I mean.

877
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the complication rates of the seizures from the

878
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: vaccines are still much lower than the exact same seizures

879
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 1: when caused by the actual diseases that they are meant

880
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: to prevent.

881
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: Right, right, disease cause seizures have twenty times the rate

882
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 2: of ICU admission. And this still goes into other We're

883
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,919
Speaker 2: talking about medical concerns, but it still goes into other

884
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 2: widespread social concerns, some of which I've dealt with on

885
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 2: the ground, like in the field. So in some countries,

886
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 2: nonprofit and medical personnel, especially if they're in a non

887
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 2: Western country and they're from the West, have been attacked

888
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 2: even killed for attempting to administer vaccines to local populations.

889
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 2: And Pakistan, for instance, some religious and militant groups alleged

890
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 2: that vaccination was a cover story and that the substances

891
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,960
Speaker 2: being administered were meant to either sterilize or kill the

892
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 2: local population simply for being Muslim.

893
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 3: And you know, we've seen that echoed as well, even

894
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 3: in places like New York City and Brooklyn, and a

895
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 3: couple other in groups within that community believe that there

896
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 3: is some type of conspiracy against them, where the vaccines

897
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 3: are being administered specifically to them to cause harm to

898
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 3: their community.

899
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 1: Call them out of the population.

900
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 3: There, at least a couple of there are a few

901
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 3: outspoken rabbis there have been holding rallies in twenty nineteen,

902
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen where they're speaking outwardly about that stuff.

903
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 1: A buddy of mine lives in a neighborhood in Brooklyn

904
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,720
Speaker 1: that the population is very largely made of Asidic devout Jews,

905
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: and it's a really interesting community for sure, because they

906
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: kind of all hang out together. They go out with

907
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: their whole families, kind of like you know, in a group,

908
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: and they don't really make eye contact or communicate with,

909
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, others that are not in that community. So

910
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: it is very much like them looking out for themselves

911
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 1: and each other. It's a very interesting world.

912
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 3: Just to call out. A New York Times article if

913
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:57,760
Speaker 3: you want to learn more about that, it's called despite

914
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:02,280
Speaker 3: Measles warnings. Anti vaccine rally draws hundreds of ultra orthodox Jews.

915
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 2: There you go, Yes, do learn about it.

916
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 4: Now.

917
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 2: When we're calling out communities as examples for feeling this way,

918
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,319
Speaker 2: we're not trying to pick on anybody. The truth is

919
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 2: that this is an understandable thing that occurs, especially in

920
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:19,240
Speaker 2: insular communities. While this might sound the idea of someone

921
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 2: hunting down your specific friends, families, and community members to

922
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,879
Speaker 2: kill you via fake vaccines, While it might sound pretty

923
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 2: out there to some of us listening today, we have

924
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 2: to understand that Western NGOs in particular, have an established

925
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 2: history of functioning as covers for all sorts of nefarious activities.

926
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,919
Speaker 2: There is no proven case of modern vaccination attempts being

927
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 2: a cover for the spread of disease. In this manner,

928
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 2: it's a leap. It's not as far as a leap

929
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 2: as it might seem, though it's still a leap, but

930
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 2: I'm just saying it's not as much of a jump.

931
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 2: The chasm is not as wide. When I was living

932
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 2: in Central America, this was a very very common belief,

933
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 2: and it was very very much a controversial thing because

934
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 2: people thought that folks were being sent by the US

935
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 2: big business and government, maybe in cooperation with drug cartels

936
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 2: to sterilize their children or to render them somehow mentally inert,

937
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 2: you know. And this goes hand in hand with the

938
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 2: concerns of like the illegal organ trade, right, or that

939
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 2: the idea that children be by vaccinated would be somehow

940
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 2: marked or chipped, and that they could be traced and

941
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:37,280
Speaker 2: their organs later cold. There's a real thing that people believe. Wow,

942
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,399
Speaker 2: there are other conspiracies. There's the big business angle, which

943
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 2: is always going to rear its ugly head here depending

944
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 2: on who you ask time. As we said earlier time,

945
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 2: medicine and the health of living innocent human beings to

946
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 2: profit or a financial bottom line is either at best

947
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,280
Speaker 2: the necessary evil, or it is one of the great

948
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 2: crimes of modern medicine rights. It's true that many people

949
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 2: have died, are probably dying as you listen to this show,

950
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 2: and will die after you're done listening in this show

951
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:12,240
Speaker 2: because it was no longer profitable for certain pharmaceutical companies

952
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 2: to produce a given medicine, or because they increase the

953
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 2: price of a medicine to the point that other people

954
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 2: could not afford it. India is one of the countries

955
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 2: that's been in increasingly tense conversations and arguments with Western

956
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 2: medicine manufacturers because India as a government made a choice

957
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 2: where they said, look, we're not going to we're not

958
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 2: going to let people die because you think of medicine

959
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 2: should be four hundred and fifty dollars, we can manufacture

960
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 2: it here and we'll give it to them for three

961
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 2: or something like that. You know, I'm pulling the numbers

962
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 2: out of my head, but these are real arguments that

963
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 2: are happening, and you can see why some people might

964
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 2: be opposed to that because of the enormous cost of

965
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 2: R and D. But then also on the other side,

966
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,399
Speaker 2: there are people dying. This all to say, it is very,

967
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,479
Speaker 2: very easy to see why a lot of people would

968
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 2: not trust these profit driven companies to have the best

969
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 2: interest of patients at heart. I'm not vilifying them. I'm saying,

970
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 2: if you exercise even cursory attempts at empathy, you can

971
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 2: clearly see how this seems like a rational and logical

972
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 2: decision on their part. They're saying, well, these companies that

973
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 2: experimented a marginalized populations in the past, what's to stop

974
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 2: them from doing so again? And if we don't have

975
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 2: enough money, these people don't care about us. There you go,

976
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 2: and this is not look we're talking about right now.

977
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:38,919
Speaker 2: We're talking about largely developing countries when we talk about

978
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 2: those concerns. But the concern of vaccination's population control is

979
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 2: alive and well here in the United States, Matt, you

980
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 2: had the excellent example of the ultra orthodox community again,

981
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 2: factions within the ultra orthodox community in New York. What

982
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 2: about Congressman Louis Gohmert, who voiced his concerns about vaccination

983
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 2: on a broadcast for the Family Research Council. Pretty wholesome

984
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:06,439
Speaker 2: name right. He is convinced that liberal elites are using

985
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 2: vaccination programs to call the Earth's population due to concerns

986
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 2: about the scarcity of natural resources. Very Malthusian population collapse reasoning.

987
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 2: He thinks there is an evil cabal behind this plan

988
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 2: and that they're aiming for a target worldwide global human

989
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 2: population of seven hundred million, very Georgia Guidestone style. But

990
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 2: there's a huge problem with this. The overwhelming massive evidence,

991
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 2: well not perfect right science never is, proves the vaccines

992
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 2: overall tend to save lives. So this means that vaccines,

993
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 2: even if they were more dangerous than they are today,

994
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 2: are increasing the world's population rather than diminishing it. It's

995
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 2: making it much much more likely that we reach nine

996
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 2: billion then go down to seven hundred million. As a

997
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 2: matter of fact, if you wanted people to get closer

998
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 2: to seven hundred million, you would probably just stop vaccinating

999
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 2: anyone and then a ton of people eventually down the

1000
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 2: road would die. But the problem with that is that

1001
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 2: people are very good at breeding, and it's one of

1002
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 2: our favorite things to do. So getting us down to

1003
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 2: seven hundred million means you would also need to sterilize

1004
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 2: a ton of people or convince them that there are

1005
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:19,800
Speaker 2: things that are better than sex.

1006
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 3: Ooh ooh. What if you can convince them that taking

1007
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 3: a vaccine is the worst thing you can do because

1008
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 3: it will kill you for some reason, or it will

1009
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 3: do something bad for you. But you're a state actor

1010
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,440
Speaker 3: and you want the population to decrease.

1011
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 1: Well, that is a very good segue.

1012
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 2: That because I like that you're talking about geopolitics. There

1013
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 2: is one thing we found that is a genuine improvable

1014
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 2: conspiracy in the argument about vaccination.

1015
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it has to do again and every time

1016
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 3: we talk about a state actor or something like this.

1017
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 3: We meant this on the show all the time, but

1018
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 3: it's a faction of someone acting within a state government

1019
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 3: in this case Russia, or at least someone working even

1020
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 3: within a private institution somewhere in Russia. But that's what

1021
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about. They've been spreading basically propaganda

1022
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 3: that is anti vaccination in nature.

1023
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: Right.

1024
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, So a study by the Journal of Public Health

1025
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 2: showed that Russian trolls those are the biological actual people

1026
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 2: spreading disinfo, and then Russian bought campaigns those are the

1027
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 2: algorithms and fake accounts run by actual people have been

1028
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 2: working purposely to spread discord in the West around vaccination

1029
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 2: attempts or campaigns. According to David Bruniatowski from George Washington University, quote,

1030
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 2: a significant portion of the online discourse about vaccines may

1031
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 2: be generated by malicious actors with a range of hidden agendas.

1032
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 2: They reviewed more than two hundred and fifty tweets about

1033
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 2: vaccination from accounts linked to outfit called the Internet Research

1034
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 2: Agency IRA. Again, as long as you don't look at

1035
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 2: the acronym, that's pretty wholesome situation there. It's based in

1036
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 2: Saint Petersburg. In February, the agency was named in a

1037
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 2: US indictment over alleged election medaling. They use tweets with

1038
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 2: polarizing language that linked vaccination to statements about race, class,

1039
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 2: and the legitimacy of Western governments. According to the research,

1040
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 2: we have a couple of example tweets here. Does anybody

1041
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 2: want to do a voice?

1042
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: I could do a voice. Did you know that it

1043
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 1: was secret government database of HASTAG vaccine damage child HASTAG

1044
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 1: vaccinate US.

1045
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 2: Another that argued for vaccination said, listen at the us

1046
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 2: kno fixed stupidity, leath them die from measle I am

1047
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 2: for vaccination.

1048
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 3: Pretty good, guys.

1049
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 2: No apologies to our apologies to our Russian friends.

1050
01:01:58,320 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: Don't have any Russian listeners, there's no.

1051
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 2: I do well, I've got friends who are Russian.

1052
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: First into this show, right, yeah, yeah.

1053
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 2: So shout out to shout out to Oleg. He used

1054
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 2: to live in San Francisco. He lives in London.

1055
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 1: Now I remember you've told me about him.

1056
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 2: Uh, he is going to kill me for that accent.

1057
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 2: But you know, accents aside, we're we're uh, we're having

1058
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 2: a little fun with it. But accents aside those are

1059
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 2: real tweets, and they are certainly not not meant to

1060
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 2: be associated with Russia in the environment in which they're published.

1061
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 2: They're meant to seem like someone you kind of know

1062
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 2: or a source you kind of respect that is telling you,

1063
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 2: you know, the brass tax real truth about what's going on.

1064
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:52,200
Speaker 2: This is totally textbook foundation of geopolitics by Alexander Duken.

1065
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,959
Speaker 3: There you go, Alexander Duken. It always I always feel

1066
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 3: like it's going to be a Star Wars character or something.

1067
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 2: It does. And he kind of is, you know, he

1068
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 2: got away from his more occult roots and is now

1069
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 2: just arguing state policy in Russia. But this leads us

1070
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 2: to our conclusion. Currently, several diseases appear to be on

1071
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 2: the rise in certain communities in certain global regions due

1072
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 2: to concerns about the perceived hidden dangers of vaccination. The

1073
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 2: BBC sums it up in pretty well in a fairly

1074
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 2: troubling way. In Europe, more than forty one thousand people

1075
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 2: are infected with measles in the first six months of

1076
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. That's nearly double the number of cases for

1077
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 2: the entirety of last year at that point. That report

1078
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 2: was made in twenty eighteen, thirty seven people had already died.

1079
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 2: Measles was on the rise in Serbia, Ukraine, Georgia and

1080
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 2: Greece and the US. The number of children being exempted

1081
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 2: from vaccines is also on the rise. In Italy, the

1082
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 2: upper house of Parliament voted through legislation to abolish the

1083
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 2: law that makes vaccines mandatory for children before they start school.

1084
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 2: Despite this area, despite the media coverage, the only serious

1085
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 2: medical condition ever linked to a vaccine was specific to

1086
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 2: the virus strain used in the manufacture of that vaccine.

1087
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 2: And whenever we talk about this sort of stuff, we

1088
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 2: have to treat everyone's concerned seriously. We are talking about

1089
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 2: human lives here, right, and both sides of the argument

1090
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 2: feel like they are either saving lives or saving the

1091
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 2: quality of life for people. So these are noble motives, right,

1092
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 2: But we also have to ask ourselves about the motivations

1093
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 2: behind any possible conspiracy that would exist other than the

1094
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 2: Russian disinfo stuff, which is absolutely true. Again, not a

1095
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 2: theory that's happening. Be careful who you retweet first. Why

1096
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 2: would someone want to spread a disease or a medical

1097
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 2: condition through the false pretense of preventing another disease. Are

1098
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 2: there any proving cases of this tactic being deployed on

1099
01:04:53,320 --> 01:04:56,439
Speaker 2: a widespread scale, not that we can find. That doesn't

1100
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 2: mean they don't exist. That just means that they're hard

1101
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 2: to find and they're hard to prove. We do know

1102
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 2: that diseases, for instance, have been utilized as weapons of

1103
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 2: war ever since the days of old, when the bodies

1104
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 2: of plague victims were catapulted up over walls during sieges.

1105
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 2: This species is not above using disease to kill each

1106
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 2: other on purpose, right, But we just haven't seen a

1107
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 2: case of people doing that on purpose with vaccines. Because again,

1108
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 2: the thing with vaccines is, although they are not perfect,

1109
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 2: they do tend to save more lives than they take

1110
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 2: for sure.

1111
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 3: And they're you know that whole point of they're not

1112
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 3: using that live. Well, it's a different. The methodology of

1113
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 3: creating the disease and using the disease to get someone

1114
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 3: else six very, very very different. You have to keep

1115
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 3: that in mind when you're thinking about this. And the

1116
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 3: third question we have to ask here, have vaccinations ever

1117
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 3: actually been used for some kind of nefarious purpose, whether

1118
01:05:57,040 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 3: some kind of experimental vaccination or or you know, some

1119
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 3: other thing that we haven't even thought about yet, and

1120
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,919
Speaker 3: that's an episode for another day. When we talked about

1121
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 3: this already, we're talking about militaries using vaccines for certain

1122
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 3: things that we've actually gotten some we've gotten some email

1123
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 3: some responses before from soldiers who have had to get

1124
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 3: vaccines and they were confused about how many there were,

1125
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 3: just so many vaccines. The schedule was strange, talking about

1126
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 3: vaccines in prisons, on marginalized populations, and some of the

1127
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 3: stuff Ben you were mentioning already about your you know,

1128
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 3: your travels and how people feel about vaccines. There's a

1129
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 3: lot more here to go into.

1130
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 2: Yes, and today for those of us listening. In the US,

1131
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 2: all fifty states have some sort of law requiring at

1132
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 2: the very least certain vaccines for students. There are exemptions

1133
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 2: based on medical reasons, religious exemptions. Seventeen states do allow

1134
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 2: parents to opt out based on personal or philosophical beliefs.

1135
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 3: And though we mentioned New York already, but just yesterday

1136
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 3: as we're recording this, on June thirteenth, New York lawmakers

1137
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 3: they voted to end religious exemptions for immunizations, which has

1138
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 3: you know, fully fully angered some of some of the

1139
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 3: people in those communities that we were mentioning earlier, and

1140
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 3: they joined up with several other states right now California, Arizona,

1141
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,360
Speaker 3: West Virginia, Mississippi, and Maine that do not allow exemptions

1142
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 3: on religious beliefs.

1143
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:34,160
Speaker 2: Which for some people still is you know, it's that

1144
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,680
Speaker 2: other it's that, don't tread on the idea, don't tell

1145
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 2: me what to do with my family. So we reach

1146
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 2: our conclusion here. So far as we can tell, and

1147
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 2: so far as the bulk of research shows us, the

1148
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 2: majority of studies arguing for the efficacy of vaccination as

1149
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 2: well as the advantages of immunizing people to once fatal diseases,

1150
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 2: seem to be largely solid and their findings seem to

1151
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 2: be increasingly in agreement confirmed on multiple angles. The studies

1152
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 2: are reproducible and so on. And in contrast, the studies

1153
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 2: against vaccination overall have been largely debunked and the findings

1154
01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:21,440
Speaker 2: also don't seem to be reproducible, meaning that unrelated objective

1155
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 2: researchers with no horse in the race other than the

1156
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 2: survival of themselves and their progeny cannot reach the same

1157
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 2: conclusions without either purposely or accidentally really screwing something up

1158
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 2: along the way. Some studies of specific vaccines in the

1159
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 2: past did raise valid concerns about their danger right and

1160
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:46,400
Speaker 2: their safety, and it appears that the medical community responded

1161
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 2: by improving these vaccines, either through new manufacturing techniques like

1162
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 2: you mentioned no, or by removing potentially harmful substances. At

1163
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 2: this point, we want to hear from you. Thank you

1164
01:08:57,560 --> 01:08:59,760
Speaker 2: so much for listening to this show. What do you

1165
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 2: use think about vaccination? As we like to say here

1166
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:04,640
Speaker 2: in the South, are you for it or again it?

1167
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 1: And why?

1168
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 3: I just I'd like to point out here with this

1169
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 3: and as you're thinking about your response, we are highly aware,

1170
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 3: as you probably are, that the current state of vaccinations

1171
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:19,040
Speaker 3: it's not perfect. It is not a perfect system, no

1172
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 3: matter what you believe, but that doesn't necessarily mean that

1173
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 3: it is dangerous to you. So just you know, just

1174
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 3: think about that, really think about that.

1175
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 2: And also, you know, this this episode really focused on

1176
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 2: the West. Outside of some of the ancient history and

1177
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 2: some cultural implications, we did not explore how these operations

1178
01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 2: might be conducted in other countries, right, So it's possible

1179
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 2: there's something we need to hear from your neck of

1180
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 2: the global woods. Please don't hesitate to tell us, reach

1181
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:53,599
Speaker 2: out and let us know, especially if you think it's

1182
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 2: something that it would be important for your fellow listeners

1183
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:56,040
Speaker 2: to learn.

1184
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 3: There you go. You can contact us on Twitter or

1185
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 3: Facebook or Instagram. We are conspiracy stuff on most things.

1186
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:06,400
Speaker 3: Conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. Reach out to us. You

1187
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 3: can call us and leave a message. We are one

1188
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:12,720
Speaker 3: eight three three s wyk.

1189
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:14,800
Speaker 1: If you want to check us out on Facebook. We

1190
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:17,559
Speaker 1: have a really exciting pop in Facebook community called Here's

1191
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:18,639
Speaker 1: where It Gets Crazy.

1192
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 2: I just posted something that blew my mind. I don't

1193
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 2: know if you guys saw this, but biologists have discovered

1194
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 2: what they're calling an underwater octopus city. What they're calling

1195
01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:30,919
Speaker 2: it octlantis. Is it an octopus's garden in the shade

1196
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 2: they have? Yeah, someone made that joke.

1197
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 1: That was me.

1198
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 2: No, no, no, it was uh scoop me on it.

1199
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:40,719
Speaker 2: It was Alison Willard.

1200
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:41,640
Speaker 3: There you go.

1201
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 2: The Bethley Gardens are amazing and shady, but I can you.

1202
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 1: Came up with it parallel thinking, like the cutover gym.

1203
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 2: So if you want to read that story in full,

1204
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 2: go ahead and hop on. Here's where it gets Crazy.

1205
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 2: Let us know what you think about Lovecraft and if

1206
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 2: none of that quite gardens, your octopus, nor bag your

1207
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 2: badgers have no You can reach out to us, independent

1208
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 2: of social media, independent of your phone. We have an

1209
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 2: email you can send us a line directly.

1210
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:29,679
Speaker 5: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1211
01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:31,599
Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production

1212
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

1213
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:38,679
Speaker 3: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

1214
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 3: to your favorite shows.